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View Full Version : PC to Mac... now going back! g5 1.6ghz horrible!


dankim723
Nov 10, 2003, 08:31 PM
So basically, i get the G5 and it starts working.. fast forward a week... FREEZING, NOISE, CRASHING, FANS SPINNING OUT OF CONTROL!!! I've taken the computer back in twice now and its still freezing... Apple says i have had 37 entries made on my case # regarding my computer and still i'm at square one... this is terrible... They replaced my powersupply because it was making this weezing noise but that only was a temp fix... seems like they don't know why my comp is freezing and they keep saying that it's a softwear issue.. the only problem with that theory is that it's crashed with several different applications... office X has had the most issues but others like IE have been crashing as well...

The same applications have been installed in a g4 pb and they work fine.. why don't they run on the g5!!! I've been a long time PC user and it took me a lot to finally switch over.. i used to talk highly of the mac machines but now i have a new story... here it goes...


I am Daniel... i was a PC user.. i sold macs at a mac retailer for 5 years to hundreds of customers... i make music, design websites, and dabble in video editing... after seeing all the ads and hearing wonderful stories... i NEED A MAC!!!

I am Daniel, i bought a mac... i want this mac to work.. this mac does not work.. i called apple support over 20 times.. this mac is still not working.. apple says that it is too late for an exchange... apple sent me extra ram to shut me up... apple did not fix my computer.. Apple says i have to bring the computer back in for repairs again.. I have spent over 4 weeks dealing with this mess and it still isn't fixed.. i feel like apple's test animal... try this, try that.. man.... JUST GIVE ME SOMETHING THAT WORKS!!!! reformat, reinstall, first aid, reinstall, uninstall, CRASH! ERRR...

I am Daniel, I'm on a mac forum... i hate my MAC.. i am going back to PC!

if anyone reads this and has ANY INFO on what i can do... help me be a believer of macs again.. please speak up... if not... then .. GOODBYE MAC WORLD!! (oh btw..i worked macworld and am a apple gold certified agent! Isn't that a joke!)

oh i wrote a message on apple.com and they took off my post.. this is hilarious:


Your post titled "G5 Worst Computer Experience EVER!!!" has been removed from Apple Discussions. Posts including (but not limited to) any of the following are not appropriate:

* Discussions of Apple policies and procedures (including pricing and repair policies)
* Speculations/rumors about future Apple decisions
* Questions/rumors about unreleased products
* Posts in the technical forums that are not directly related to a technical support issue
* Polls, petitions, auctions, or advertisements
* Posts that are only complaints
* Posts which contain or imply abusive or obscene language
* Posts which are abusive to other Discussions users

Please see the Overview section at http://discussions.info.apple.com/WebX/help for more information on the purpose of the Apple discussion forums, as well as the terms and conditions for posting on Apple Discussions. Each Discussion user is required to agree to these terms before gaining posting privileges. You reserve the right to not post on Apple Discussions should you disagree with these terms.

Sometimes you have comments or concerns for which there is no technical response. If you need the kind of help that a troubleshooting expert can't provide, you can call Apple's Customer Relations group.

PC to MAC.. now going Back... sad sad...

gwuMACaddict
Nov 10, 2003, 08:36 PM
can i have it? PLEASE

dankim723
Nov 10, 2003, 08:39 PM
you have 5 bucks?

gwuMACaddict
Nov 10, 2003, 08:43 PM
I HAVE $20!!

scem0
Nov 10, 2003, 08:45 PM
Originally posted by dankim723
you have 5 bucks?

I do, who do i send it to?

scem0

gwuMACaddict
Nov 10, 2003, 08:47 PM
Originally posted by scem0
I do, who do i send it to?

scem0


i called it!!

;)

dankim723
Nov 10, 2003, 08:48 PM
see what happens.. i have to take it in again.. i really want to raise hell and just sit in front of the apple store and wear a big sign that says "Apple is next to ASS on the quality chart!"

gwuMACaddict
Nov 10, 2003, 08:49 PM
Originally posted by dankim723
see what happens.. i have to take it in again.. i really want to raise hell and just sit in front of the apple store and wear a big sign that says "Apple is next to ASS on the quality chart!"


hahaha- fair enough... don't forget about the poor college kid in dc who could REALLY USE A NEW G5.

;)

(that goes to anyone else out there as well. donations accepted)

:D

applemacdude
Nov 10, 2003, 08:52 PM
Dude I'll pay 1500 for it....really , and why are you using IE when you have Safari? Really

topicolo
Nov 10, 2003, 08:55 PM
From what I can tell, it sounds like your G5 is overheating. If the fans are having trouble cooling the system and they're spinning like crazy, the processor is probably going over it's regular temperatures and shutting itself down. I've had a few pcs that did the same thing and once they got really hot, they started crashing in all kinds of different programs.

shadowfax
Nov 10, 2003, 09:02 PM
Originally posted by topicolo
From what I can tell, it sounds like your G5 is overheating. If the fans are having trouble cooling the system and they're spinning like crazy, the processor is probably going over it's regular temperatures and shutting itself down. I've had a few pcs that did the same thing and once they got really hot, they started crashing in all kinds of different programs. perhaps the CPU fans ar faulty? or would you guess the procs are just messed up?

dankim723
Nov 10, 2003, 09:17 PM
i ran processor monitor... processor heat is fine.. although.. i did notice spikes before when i wouldn't be doing anything.. that was weird.. its not a unbearable fan sound but its definatly something.... i built my last pc and had overheating but nothing like that on the mac... just something else thats kind of buggy... i'm thinking that it could be ram issues or logic board probs but what do i know..right?

shadowfax
Nov 10, 2003, 09:28 PM
Originally posted by dankim723
i ran processor monitor... processor heat is fine.. although.. i did notice spikes before when i wouldn't be doing anything.. that was weird.. its not a unbearable fan sound but its definatly something.... i built my last pc and had overheating but nothing like that on the mac... just something else thats kind of buggy... i'm thinking that it could be ram issues or logic board probs but what do i know..right? it sounds like you just have a dud. you should say it's DOA and send it back to get replaced...

manitoubalck
Nov 10, 2003, 09:35 PM
Demarnd a refund and go treat yourself to an Athlon 64.

mikeyredk
Nov 10, 2003, 09:39 PM
never buy a rev a product ever! unless your willing to deal with the headace

jefhatfield
Nov 10, 2003, 09:42 PM
i have been a user of apple products since 1977 and for the most part, i think they make better computers than the PC world but every now and then, apple lets a lemon out of the door...like any company out there...sometimes apple is way better than the PC side, and sometimes they have about the same number of pros and cons

while apple products have gone downhill in the past couple of years imho, and PCs have greatly improved in every way, i would not put the PC above the mac, and at worst, a mac is no better than a current PC, but about equal

panther is the buggiest os apple has put out since mac os 8.0 and that is a shame, but give apple a chance with two things:

1) wait until os 10.3.1 and see what happens
2) realize that all G5s do not have the problems yours had

it is just as likely that an hp, compaq, or dell could have given you similar, if not worse problems

let time be the judge and do not condemn apple for all time just because of your latest purchase...to be completely objective, give any company in hardware or software at least three chances

i used to hate microsoft windows because i could not run office 95 that well on windows 3.1, then i had problems with microsoft windows 95a right out the door because it crashed a lot, but then i came into windows 98, and while not perfect, it was a lot better than windows 95a or windows 3.1 and i finally decided windows could be a workable operating system...i was inches from being a linux person forever, but microsoft delivered, well enough for my taste, the third time i tried windows os

apple gear and operating systems have been great for me except for os 8.0 and the powerPC perforna i had, but with all the machines i used and all the operating systems i used, apple was excellent 75 percent of the time and of all gear and software i have used, no company has been "excellent" that often

i hiope this helps you keep faith in apple inc

ps...i am not a mac zealot and there are things that could make me, a user of PCs and macs, to switch just to PCs only and ditch the mac...if apple cannot make panther work well in its next incarnations, and not work out ibook logic board problems, and if they fall too far behind the intel/amd speed curve; then i would probably stop using apple gear

i used to use epson printers exclusively and then i had several back to back problems with their printers, ink, and paper jams over and over and over, and i got tired of them...at the same time, a friend of mine bought a lexmark printer with their ibook, both from apple.com store and then sold me the lexmark...it worked well and now i am a believer in lexmark and i still have the printer 18 months later

madamimadam
Nov 10, 2003, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by shadowfax
it sounds like you just have a dud. you should say it's DOA and send it back to get replaced...

DOAs can only be claimed with-in 10 days

Who ever the idiot was who thought it was a good idea to try to fix this machine should be shot. If it is with-in 10 days old, just send it back DOA and replace the whole machine. This is what the person who sold it to you should have done.

I feel sorry for you.. it always happens to the people who have the most to lose. Obviously there are WAY more working machines that dud machines and Apple has a MUCH better track record than most PC companies but it is hard to feel good about something that causes you so many problems.

On a side note, I do have to agree, why are you using IE???

absolut_mac
Nov 10, 2003, 11:34 PM
Originally posted by madamimadam
DOAs can only be claimed with-in 10 days

Not in California.

As far as I know there is virtually NO time limit to claiming DOA if the product NEVER worked properly from day one.

The 'no time limit' obviously depends on how long the company has it in their repair shop, and needs to lengthen the warranty by the appropriate time span.

Also, maybe some CA lawyer can clarify further, the company is obligated to give the customer a 100% refund if the product cannot be made to work as it is supposed to after 3 attempts.

Shakespeare might have said "First thing we do is kill all the lawyers", but I gotta tell you, without them some companies would take even more advantage of their customers than they already do - if that's at all possible.

Last 2 resorts, refuse to pay your CC bill and claim that you never received a working product, and small claims court, which is limited to $5,000 in damges. Try the former first as small claims court is very sloooow.

I have used the last two on occasion, and always with success :)

iJon
Nov 10, 2003, 11:48 PM
this is stupid, obviously if you sold macs for 5 years you would know how these things work, unless your shop didnt service machines. when i got my g5 it was acting kind of goofy, but i didnt switch back to pc (not that i was ever there to begin with). i got my first mac when i was 4 and have been selling macs for about 4 years now and i have learned that macs are like any other machine. apple makes a good product but some can be bad, and apple ha a pretty good ratio if you ask me. if you have been around macs for so long and talk highly of them and love them and then you let your g5 change your whole mind than all i have to say is dont let the door hit you on the way out.

iJon

Fukui
Nov 10, 2003, 11:55 PM
Originally posted by dankim723
see what happens.. i have to take it in again.. i really want to raise hell and just sit in front of the apple store and wear a big sign that says "Apple is next to ASS on the quality chart!"
Why dont you just do the easy thing and get it completely replaced??

jefhatfield
Nov 10, 2003, 11:58 PM
Originally posted by iJon
, but i didnt switch back to pc (not that i was ever there to begin with)



but before you can accurately make that statement, you have to have been "there", too

in the last few years, the two have been very close when it comes to value for money

my ibook is tougher, lighter, and has a better battery time

my PC laptop i got at the same month is cheaper, has more software on it that came with it right out of the box, and i have a larger selection of titles to choose from when i go to the computer stores near me...some titles can only be found on PC

objectively, both platforms have their pros and cons and the best way to really know it is to have had several PCs and several macs over several years' time

dankim723
Nov 11, 2003, 12:13 AM
Well to answer some of these comments... i do understand that computer have issues but it is apple as a company's job to make sure the product goes through QC and if for some reason the computer that slips pass testing get's into the customers hand's... they should do everything they can to rectify the situation.

My standards of this machine was not met... check point one... fine... so i call back and let apple know of this issue.. fail...

Check point two... service on the phone... tech support.. feeding me the stuff that helps your grass grow... terrible (more upset with the service then computer itself).. fail

Check point three... computer still doesn't work.... i bring computer in for repairs... technicians do not give me a straight answer on why this machine is having problems. fail..

last check point (there are others i am not mentioning... anyway)... call customer service to elighten them of the experience i've been having with tech support... fail..

bottom line is... if the machine does not work... that is ok with me... get me a machine that works then, or take it in and make repairs but get it right the first time.... this is what gets me.. yes i sold macs for 5 years and now i realize.... all the crap i heard people feeding customers... a lot of it its just that crap.... support is great, techs will take care of you, these machines are built like a rock! yeah yeah... trust me... i've heard it all... i know policies, operations, etc... and i'm saying.. this is the worst purchase experience i have ever had!!! I am dying to be a believer.. i gave apple 37 chances to help me out... same answer over and over... sorry... you need to take it in... you need to do this.. you need to do that.. NO! i need to get a machine that works for the good money i paid for this machine.. this is what really erks me... if there aren't alot of customers like me that have so called LEMONS... then why not say.. "hey sorry you had to go through all that trouble.... here at apple, we have full faith in our products and want you keep you as a satisfied customer so we are going to take your system based on your word that the machine is not working and give you a new system. Sorry for all the time you spent reformating, reinstalling, backing up, testing, troubleshooting, on hold with customer service and tech support, bringing in the system the amount of times you did and here you go!" problem solved.. no more pissed off customer... i feel that is very reasonable but these guys don't get it.... So what if they don't find a problem when i bring it in.. WHY WOULD I LIE ABOUT IT NOT WORKING!!! i think this machine is beautiful but no matter.. its not working the way this 64bit monster is suppost to work...

anyway... i'm more upset with the way this purchase was handled by the apple reps then the performance of the computer... my g5 can't give me attitude or give me the run around.. but these reps sure can... just fix the damn machine and i'll go back being the happy user i was when i opened the damn black box!

last statement.... you don't get progress by POINTING FINGERS! (customer relations: you have to take it into the apple store... apple store: you have to call customer relations.... customer relations: you have to talk to tech support... back to... tech support: you got to bring the computer into the apple store... on and on we go....wish me luck..)

jefhatfield
Nov 11, 2003, 12:13 AM
if somebody goes back to PC, it's not the end of the world for apple since that person could very well come back if apple inc gives them reason

when the imac came out in 98, followed by the ibook a year later, a whole boatload of people came onto the mac platform and apple inc's stock went through the ceiling

but certian bad things happened that have probably made some mac users go to PC or go back to PC

motorola got stuck at 500 mhz for 18 months, mac service has fallen down then got back up then slipped again as some of the posts i have seen on this website has mentioned, os x did not come charging out of the gate like promised, and panther has been less than glorious...i have to admit, at those junctures i have been tempted to stop buying macs and be a PC only person

dankim723
Nov 11, 2003, 12:21 AM
ie = the most universally use browser in the world hands down... meaning more website are designed to be compatible with ie... meaning less bugs... i'll wait a bit until netscape puts gets their feet back in the game and see.... i guess my answer is i don't trust the african safari hunt browser yet..

me_94501
Nov 11, 2003, 12:26 AM
dankim723, I can understand why you would want to dump the Mac, but consider this:
-You've only owned one Mac. One. Odds are you got a dud. If you end up owning five Macs and all five end up duds, then you have my permission to jump ship. But to jump ship after one Mac? Come on, man. Give the Mac a chance. Also remember that you could have bought an HP and had similar problems to what you're having with Apple.
-Try another Mac. If you have access to another Mac (either through a friend or a family member), give the OS a chance to shine.
-How OS X treating you? If the OS is working for you,you may want to consider sticking on the Mac side.

What you're doing is the equivalent to declaring that a football team has no chance to win the Super Bowl after losing their first game of the season. First impressions are the most important, but you have to disregard the first impressions and give things a chance. Otherwise, you might just miss out on something you'll regret passing by.

As for your problems with Apple Tech support, be persistent. I've never had problems with their tech support, but be persistent. Call often and try to talk to someone else. Some tech support guys are more flexible than others. Don't be rude. Be firm with them but don't be a jack@$$ with them on the phone. I'd hate to see you give up on the Mac so soon.

jefhatfield
Nov 11, 2003, 12:33 AM
Originally posted by me_94501


As for your problems with Apple Tech support, be persistent. I've never had problems with their tech support, but be persistent. Call often and try to talk to someone else. Some tech support guys are more flexible than others. Don't be rude. Be firm with them but don't be a jack@$$ with them on the phone. I'd hate to see you give up on the Mac so soon.

when applecare works well, my high tech clients on the mac side are happy...and when applecare and apple support are not up to par, i hear about it even though i do not work directly for apple...right now, the support staff are lacking and i hope apple inc can repair their increasingly tarnished image there

apple has never been known to have been very nice to its customers, even when they made the best gear out there...i suppose PC companies who didn't have the initial quality knew that their only hope for survival was an excellent support and warranty staff

dell and microsoft have the best tech help and support

but apple inc makes better computers than dell and have a better operating system through the ages than microsoft does with its incarnations of windows

but on the other hand, i avoid other mac users because, since i first encountered mac users in the mid 80s, i have come across more jerks and zealots than in any group of people and this has been the main reason most PC users don't switch...who wants to use the same computers as those jerks:p

by the way i am a nice person and when many PC people meet me, they comment on how i am not stuck up about using a mac...i am not stuck up since i only use the mac, i didn't invent the darn thing ;)

dankim723
Nov 11, 2003, 12:39 AM
the football analogy is great however... its more like... the football team looses the first game and after the game.. i talk to the players and they are pointing fingers at each other for the loss and i keep checking back on the team.. and yep... still at it again... and they aren't playing like a team.. how many chances do i give them? like i said.. i'll give the comp a chance.. but the service is on their last life line...

i've been on other macs and they work great! too bad the one i bought for myself isn't one of them... and i would LOVE to try another mac.. tell that to apple and their NO RETURNS/EXCHANGES AFTER 10 DAYS.. even though i started calling in the first week.. so i guess i'm stuck with this machine unless someone can get through to them to help me out... I'm on dud one.. but i don't have 10,000 bucks laying around to partake in the 5 mac test. I'm not trying to throw attitude.. but geez.. 37 documented conversations... 2 repairs... 1 frustrated new mac owner.. btw.. os X.3 is awesome too.. love the f9 and apple tab... but even though i love the os.. if windows works on my pc and doesn't freeze and is 1/2 the cost.. tell me how i should feel.

hulugu
Nov 11, 2003, 01:36 AM
I can understand why you feel the way you do because it appears as if Apple has failed you twice, first by building a computer that is effectively DOA and then by not solving the problem. In my experience Apple has always been significantly better in dealing with problems than any other computer company, they remain Consumer Reports #1 company ahead of Dell and above the Rogues gallery of HP.
I would suggest you call Apple and ask politely for a new machine, you have 37 entries, the machine is seriously wonked, you need a new one. Don't let them fix it, just ask for a new machine.
I buy equipment for my company and last year we bought two new laptops, a Dell and an iBook, seven desktops and a server. The Dell had a power-supply failure, a bad wireless card, and the display appears to be dimming. The iBook has been dropped from a table, has traveled several thousand miles and is nothing more than a little scratched. The DP G4 we bought has been running smoothly as has all our other desktops from Dell, and our server machine has Red Hat and has been squirelly. So what's my point? Anything can fail, but Apple builds great machines with a great operating system that has worked in all possible instances for us and for me. I've had Apple machines since 1997 has every single machine continues to run even today with aplomb. My PB continues to be my favored son, even though I have a super-fast P4. Why? The PB gets what I need done, quickly, efficiently and works with my printers my camera and my BT phone without driver disks.
I'm sorry Apple has failed you, but I think the experience of a single machine and a few employees should not color your experience entirely. I've had outstanding service, but I also explicitly asked for what I wanted, asked questions and made demands all without raising my voice and saying thank you each and every time. Dell, BTW were impossible to deal with and took two weeks to fix that busted laptop.

hulugu
Nov 11, 2003, 01:49 AM
Originally posted by jefhatfield
when applecare works well, my high tech clients on the mac side are happy...and when applecare and apple support are not up to par, i hear about it even though i do not work directly for apple...right now, the support staff are lacking and i hope apple inc can repair their increasingly tarnished image there

apple has never been known to have been very nice to its customers, even when they made the best gear out there...i suppose PC companies who didn't have the initial quality knew that their only hope for survival was an excellent support and warranty staff

dell and microsoft have the best tech help and support

but apple inc makes better computers than dell and have a better operating system through the ages than microsoft does with its incarnations of windows

but on the other hand, i avoid other mac users because, since i first encountered mac users in the mid 80s, i have come across more jerks and zealots than in any group of people and this has been the main reason most PC users don't switch...who wants to use the same computers as those jerks:p

by the way i am a nice person and when many PC people meet me, they comment on how i am not stuck up about using a mac...i am not stuck up since i only use the mac, i didn't invent the darn thing ;)

Two things, MS and Dell have been very poor in their customer experience. In my last instance, MS blamed Dell and Dell blamed MS for a weird firmware issue for weeks before it got solved. And Dell, if you can get a hold of a real person, seems to hire some very rude people.
Second, the PC zealotry is just as vicious and uninformed:
I've run into 'Intel or die,' 'Dell is the greatest thing since the wheel,' or my personal favorite and a real quote: "You use a Mac! What are you retarded?" And what about all those MS fanboys who post on Slashdot how all Macs users are homosexuals and Linux users Communists. Very reasoned and well positioned.
Buy a computer because it's what you need, not for some quasi-political-sociological experiment, it's just a tool.

peterj1967
Nov 11, 2003, 06:56 AM
That sucks...

I had a similar 6 month struggle with Apple, which turned out to be a bad simm, which my vendor had installed. I eventually just guessed and pulled the simm. I was getting Kernel panics when waking from sleep on a semi-regular basis (that was the simm). The other one was my machine turned itself on and off, that was the cinema display which they fixed.

But a couple of suggestions, which may save you time and headaches.

First: when you take your machine into service, sit with them when they check the machine. Don't go until you can reproduce the errors. If they happen all the time, this isn't a problem, if it is intermittent, as the service shop to keep a log of what they did to check your machine make sure they use it, not just let it sit.

Second: Try and isolate your issues. It is a pain, but it is worth it. Start from a clean machine and no installed software or peripherals. Again, run the machine a try and reproduce the errors, add software and hardware one at a time and try and break it again. If your machine with just OS X no software or peripherals added crashes regularly, you should have no problem showing them it is a hardware problem.

It would be nice if they would just take machines back, but they never will. They fixed my monitor with a ship back, no problem. I fixed my machine by pulling a simm. I just slowed down and double checked everything.

You can read all the crap I went through here.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39038

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38164

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35137

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27736&highlight=lemon

Good luck, sucks to have a lemon, I've been there, but now my machine is crash free and happy.

jefhatfield
Nov 11, 2003, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by hulugu
Two things, MS and Dell have been very poor in their customer experience. In my last instance, MS blamed Dell and Dell blamed MS for a weird firmware issue for weeks before it got solved. And Dell, if you can get a hold of a real person, seems to hire some very rude people.
Second, the PC zealotry is just as vicious and uninformed:
I've run into 'Intel or die,' 'Dell is the greatest thing since the wheel,' or my personal favorite and a real quote: "You use a Mac! What are you retarded?" And what about all those MS fanboys who post on Slashdot how all Macs users are homosexuals and Linux users Communists. Very reasoned and well positioned.
Buy a computer because it's what you need, not for some quasi-political-sociological experiment, it's just a tool.

being microsoft certified, on the desktop end, and having been a dell, compaq, and apple warranty tech, i can say with five years in the high tech field, that dell is the top customer service company in the field

apple builds a better machine

dell has better service...heck, maybe they break down more ;)

as for zealots, in the 26 years i have used apple inc gear, and known others who have, there is not a nastier group of people and i refuse to go to the local mac users club...it's all about the past and how bill gates ripped them off of their birthright to rule the computer business, etc...yada yada

most PC users seriously do not care about mac users, or linux users, or users of be os...because they are a non factor
in their eyes...yes, there are PC zealots, but they are increasingly rare and if they were as nasty as the majority of mac users, we would live in a terrible world
:p

jefhatfield
Nov 11, 2003, 11:18 AM
i am happy that arn has banned very mean people from this website...in the early days there were some very hardcore mac zealots here and they swore up a storm and viciously attacked PC users or mac users who did not think like them

as a singnature, there were several users back then , including mischief and me, who are still here, who called ourselves members of the anti-zealot campaign and we brought a more compassionate way to love macs ...and not hate PCs or PC users

in the end, the site got populated with civilized mac users who are not out to "kill bill"...he he...and as most of us know many other mac sites on the net can suffice a mac zealots appetite for hating PCs and their users...but not here thanks to arn and the moderators...and the feature of being able to report mean posts

a nice and friendly mac user sees that any PC user, including that rare PC zealot, could one day be a mac user

and to you mac zealots out there who want apple inc to win...let the mac speak for itself...we don't need mac users acting like a bunch of idiots at a mob to convince a PC user that os x is better or that macs a built better

Rower_CPU
Nov 11, 2003, 12:59 PM
Originally posted by dankim723
ie = the most universally use browser in the world hands down... meaning more website are designed to be compatible with ie... meaning less bugs... i'll wait a bit until netscape puts gets their feet back in the game and see.... i guess my answer is i don't trust the african safari hunt browser yet..

And therefore perpetuate the "one browser web" that locks everyone into MS standards and not the standards laid out by the W3C. Well done.

Netscape is dead, killed by MS. Mozilla is still going strong, and both it and Safari are fine, standards compliant browsers.

iJon
Nov 11, 2003, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by jefhatfield
but before you can accurately make that statement, you have to have been "there", too

in the last few years, the two have been very close when it comes to value for money

my ibook is tougher, lighter, and has a better battery time

my PC laptop i got at the same month is cheaper, has more software on it that came with it right out of the box, and i have a larger selection of titles to choose from when i go to the computer stores near me...some titles can only be found on PC

objectively, both platforms have their pros and cons and the best way to really know it is to have had several PCs and several macs over several years' time
well i guess i can say ive bene there. ive serviced so many pc's and macs over the years and be around so many that i can make my choice accuratly.

iJon

jefhatfield
Nov 11, 2003, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by iJon
well i guess i can say ive bene there. ive serviced so many pc's and macs over the years and be around so many that i can make my choice accuratly.

ijOn

you have fixed PC boxes so then i know you have been there;)

xp is still definiteley better than win 3.1 or 95a...at least you have to give microsoft that

iJon
Nov 11, 2003, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by jefhatfield
you have fixed PC boxes so then i know you have been there;)

xp is still definiteley better than win 3.1 or 95a...at least you have to give microsoft that
yeah i like xp alot, but the only reason i like it is because it doesnt crash, thats where my standards are when it comes to windows, if it doesnt crash its good.

iJon

themadchemist
Nov 11, 2003, 06:10 PM
call cupertino, it's worked for us a couple of times when I had problems. Amy Antonelli (sp?), pretty high up in Executive Customer Relations helped us a great deal last time with a bastard authorized repair place that wouldn't honor my apple care.

Those people really go WAY out of their way to help. If you do a little nudging, Apple definitely can have the best customer service of any company out there.

madamimadam
Nov 11, 2003, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by iJon
yeah i like xp alot, but the only reason i like it is because it doesnt crash

I just don't like how crowded it is with the default theme. Yes, you can change the theme but most people like things to work well out of the box

jefhatfield
Nov 11, 2003, 06:18 PM
Originally posted by iJon
yeah i like xp alot, but the only reason i like it is because it doesnt crash, thats where my standards are when it comes to windows, if it doesnt crash its good.

iJon

in the last few weeks, here's been the scary part

as a mac and pc tech myself, i am not happy with panther crashing as much as it does and one client of mine had to reinstall panther due to a bug in the way it works with a G5

but i do have hope apple will stabilize panther by 10.3.1 or 10.3.2...at least they better get it right by then

when apple inc was slow with os x development and inplementation, the PC side got to do a lot of catching up these last many months...and being that the PC gear is cheaper and faster, it's not a good sign for apple inc

it's possible that apple's market share will still be below five percent two or three years from now and the PC side may still be faster, cheaper, and have more available software

you can blame it on os x developers, motorola and the slowly evolving G4, steve jobs, the economy, apple's ineffective advertising and marketing, or whatever...but if apple inc had a speed or software advantage in the past a few years ago, it is not there now

as great as steve jobs was bringing apple back from the depths, he is not perfect and he is still just one man...it takes a coordinated effort for apple to be the best and today, it's harder than ever to convince a regular non techie user that a mac is the better machine or better for the money

iJon
Nov 11, 2003, 06:22 PM
Originally posted by jefhatfield
in the last few weeks, here's been the scary part

as a mac and pc tech myself, i am not happy with panther crashing as much as it does and one client of mine had to reinstall panther due to a bug in the way it works with a G5

but i do have hope apple will stabilize panther by 10.3.1 or 10.3.2...at least they better get it right by then

when apple inc was slow with os x development and inplementation, the PC side got to do a lot of catching up these last many months...and being that the PC gear is cheaper and faster, it's not a good sign for apple inc

it's possible that apple's market share will still be below five percent two or three years from now and the PC side may still be faster, cheaper, and have more available software

you can blame it on os x developers, motorola and the slowly evolving G4, steve jobs, the economy, apple's ineffective advertising and marketing, or whatever...but if apple inc had a speed or software advantage in the past a few years ago, it is not there now

as great as steve jobs was bringing apple back from the depths, he is not perfect and he is still just one man...it takes a coordinated effort for apple to be the best and today, it's harder than ever to convince a regular non techie user that a mac is the better machine or better for the money
yeah my g5 and panther have been crashing at least 5 times a day. and they are hard crashes, plain lock ups like the old os 9 days. but with my experience with apple i am not mad. i obviously know this is probably a problem with the g5, and not really panther. its just since i have a powerbook as well i have been using it more until i get around to working on the g5. i will probably put jaguar back on there and see how it runs if 10.3.1 doesnt do the trick, and if jaguar crashes it i will diagnose further.

iJon

Rower_CPU
Nov 11, 2003, 06:25 PM
Originally posted by jefhatfield
...
but i do have hope apple will stabilize panther by 10.3.1 or 10.3.2...at least they better get it right by then
...

From all appearances, 10.3.1 appears to be doing just fine for people so far.

I agree that the issues on 10.3 are inexcusable, especially from my perspective on the testing side. Apple rushed 10.3 for some reason known only to them.

It's too bad that they will have some damage control to do to repair their image after this.

jefhatfield
Nov 11, 2003, 06:31 PM
Originally posted by iJon
yeah my g5 and panther have been crashing at least 5 times a day. and they are hard crashes, plain lock ups like the old os 9 days. but with my experience with apple i am not mad. i obviously know this is probably a problem with the g5, and not really panther. its just since i have a powerbook as well i have been using it more until i get around to working on the g5. i will probably put jaguar back on there and see how it runs if 10.3.1 doesnt do the trick, and if jaguar crashes it i will diagnose further.

iJon

i sure hope the issues you have are with panther, then all you would have to do is wait for 10.3.1

but if there is something inherently wrong with the G5's design, then that is truly a bad sign for apple inc...apple very rarely designs a whole line of lemons and if a certain build of a motherboard is not suitable or fully compatible with video cards, optical drives, etc, then they don't release they darn thing

os x development is not as easy as some people may have thought and it's rock solid reputation for not crashing has been tarnished in recent weeks...it's really too bad and it's not a good internal sign of how apple inc is being run

i know the thread starter may be angry at apple for his one incident of getting a lemon, but what hurts apple much more is releasing a new "dot" upgrade and have it be that buggy right out of the box

Jetson
Nov 11, 2003, 06:33 PM
I don't blame Daniel one bit. trying to deal with Apple Computer from a customer standpoint can still be frustrating. Forget talking to them on the phone. If you don't fit into one of their little scripted cubby holes, then you're placed on permanent hold. Their customer service and warranty policies still stink BIG TIME. I've had better luck going to an Apple store - but they still make you wait a very long time at the "Genius" counter before helping you out.

I won't buy a G5 machine until they get the processor heat issue resolved. From a design standpoint it's ridiculous to have all those fans, and make different aspects of the OS dependent on fan operation. Apple, in it's need to keep up with wintel speeds just threw the KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid) principle out the window.

I've got an eMac 1ghz machine and it's great - I couldn't be more pleased. When the G5s are reported to work as dependably and simply as the G4 machines, then I'll be happy to upgrade one day.

Rower_CPU
Nov 11, 2003, 06:34 PM
Originally posted by jefhatfield
i sure hope the issues you have are with panther, then all you would have to do is wait for 10.3.1
...


You do know that 10.3.1 came out yesterday, right jef?

iJon
Nov 11, 2003, 06:34 PM
Originally posted by jefhatfield
i sure hope the issues you have are with panther, then all you would have to do is wait for 10.3.1

but if there is something inherently wrong with the G5's design, then that is truly a bad sign for apple inc...apple very rarely designs a whole line of lemons and if a certain build of a motherboard is not suitable or fully compatible with video cards, optical drives, etc, then they don't release they darn thing

os x development is not as easy as some people may have thought and it's rock solid reputation for not crashing has been tarnished in recent weeks...it's really too bad and it's not a good internal sign of how apple inc is being run

i know the thread starter may be angry at apple for his one incident of getting a lemon, but what hurts apple much more is releasing a new "dot" upgrade and have it be that buggy right out of the box
well i dont think its panther because ive been using panther on my powerbook and all the computers at work, including other g5's and i am the only one who has this problem. i tried to pinpoint to software but that proved useless, each crash was random.

iJon

Coca-Cola
Nov 11, 2003, 06:37 PM
Ok. I know exactly how you feel. I went through this with my refurbished iMac. I was constantly on the phone to apple. Eventually we figured it out, it was a bad mouse and keyboard. Weird. How could something so small cause so many problems? Well, they sent me a new keyboard and mouse for free and it still works great. It was frustrating but they honestly helped as much as they could. I am sorry you are so frustated. It's not apple's fault, probably some little thing somewhere made by someone across the planet. They will fix your problem, have patients.

jefhatfield
Nov 11, 2003, 06:47 PM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU
You do know that 10.3.1 came out yesterday, right jef?

a step in the right direction..i hope they stabilize it

i know apple's intentions are good so that is a start...apple usually prides themselves in having a stable operating system, especially since that has not been microsoft's strong point for many years, back in the recent past

as in...he he:

windows 3.1...crashes, and crashes some more

windows 95a and 95b...still crashes, but less so, but no usb support

windows 98 and 98 SE...gets corrupt after time and needs to be reinstalled

windows ME...crashes

windows 2000...initially not compatible with that many PCs when it was released and it had a small hcl (hardware compatibility list)

bitfactory
Nov 11, 2003, 07:14 PM
Originally posted by dankim723
ie = the most universally use browser in the world hands down... meaning more website are designed to be compatible with ie... meaning less bugs... i'll wait a bit until netscape puts gets their feet back in the game and see.... i guess my answer is i don't trust the african safari hunt browser yet..

no offense dank - but this is the dumbest thing i've ever read (and that's saying a LOT).

furthermore, a lot of your story doesn't add up... i've owned 19 Apple computers over the years, and have never experienced anything remotely like what you are talking about. i've received one "dog" (Titanium laptop that was flickering) - called them up, they sent me a box and i had my replacement in 2 days).

if your computer isn't working - drag it into the Apple Store, set it down on the counter and DEMAND they fix it or swap it. easy as that. they will fix it or swap it - they have no choice.

don't post your whining in the Macrumors discussion board - and don't post your whining on Apple's support site. fricken' call them and DEMAND to have it fixed NOW... why are you wasting time posting in all these forums??? just FIX THE DAMN THING.

sorry for the rant - but all these "i'm switching back" ********* stories are weak.

me_94501
Nov 11, 2003, 07:57 PM
Originally posted by dankim723
the football analogy is great however... its more like... the football team looses the first game and after the game.. i talk to the players and they are pointing fingers at each other for the loss and i keep checking back on the team.. and yep... still at it again... and they aren't playing like a team.. how many chances do i give them? like i said.. i'll give the comp a chance.. but the service is on their last life line...

i've been on other macs and they work great! too bad the one i bought for myself isn't one of them... and i would LOVE to try another mac.. tell that to apple and their NO RETURNS/EXCHANGES AFTER 10 DAYS.. even though i started calling in the first week.. so i guess i'm stuck with this machine unless someone can get through to them to help me out... I'm on dud one.. but i don't have 10,000 bucks laying around to partake in the 5 mac test. I'm not trying to throw attitude.. but geez.. 37 documented conversations... 2 repairs... 1 frustrated new mac owner.. btw.. os X.3 is awesome too.. love the f9 and apple tab... but even though i love the os.. if windows works on my pc and doesn't freeze and is 1/2 the cost.. tell me how i should feel.

Your comment on my football analogy reminds be of the Oakland Raiders this year. :)

OK, fair enough. If you feel it's best for you to move back to the PC, feel free and do it. I'd hate to see someone leave the Mac so soon though.

jefhatfield
Nov 11, 2003, 07:59 PM
Originally posted by bitfactory


sorry for the rant - but all these "i'm switching back" ********* stories are weak.

and who are you, god?:p

but if you are not god, are you santa or nostradamus?

manitoubalck
Nov 11, 2003, 11:38 PM
Originally posted by bitfactory
if your computer isn't working - drag it into the Apple Store, set it down on the counter and DEMAND they fix it or swap it. easy as that. they will fix it or swap it - they have no choice.

I have had:
> faulty Zip250mb Drive
1. faulty DVD Drive,
1. faulty Floppy disk drive,
2. faulty fire wire cards &
2. faulty TV/FM radio cards

As Bitfactory has pointed out a personal apperence is the best way to get te problem solved. All of these items were replaced on the spot after a 10 test to see that I wasn't lieing.

No apple care, no help desk, no phone call, just a ride on my bike to the computer store and a clean swap. Except for the zip drive which I bought from a software store, where they sent it to iomega. Iomega sent a new one to the shop 2days later with a signed letter to say they were sorry for the inconvinence.

Also never say 'might be broken' it's always "irepairable and needs a replacement."

ITR 81
Nov 11, 2003, 11:52 PM
Take it to a Apple Store and get them to fix it or swap it your still under warranty and they should fix it no matter what.

As for Dell when I was in military just few months ago we got 10 towers and out of the 10, 5 were duds wouldn't even bootup. When we called Dell they gave the ARMY the run around for few weeks saying because we got a mil. discount they didn't have to replace it just maybe fix it IF it wasn't over some amount.

We had problems with Panasonic Toughbooks which had 20 bad screens out of 50 laptops. They wouldn't take them back they only would send parts and said they know about the problem but they had no REAL current fix for it.

I got sick of working on Dells and Panasonics in the Mil. Pieces of crap and I not only had to fix their computers my friends would bring over their Dell laptops because it died or something. To me Dell, Panasonic should be shot which is what we did to some Dell computers to get rid of them.

I know not all products are perfect but I draw the line when I see that many bad apples, no pun implied.

SiliconAddict
Nov 12, 2003, 02:40 AM
Originally posted by hulugu

Buy a computer because it's what you need, not for some quasi-political-sociological experiment, it's just a tool.

This is so going on my sig :D

hulugu
Nov 12, 2003, 02:45 AM
Be my guest.

SiliconAddict
Nov 12, 2003, 03:23 AM
Originally posted by madamimadam
I just don't like how crowded it is with the default theme. Yes, you can change the theme but most people like things to work well out of the box

There's something to be said about XP's themeing engine though. :)

Yes yes yes I know blasphemy. :p

This'll have to hold me until a G5 PowerBook :\

SiliconAddict
Nov 12, 2003, 08:10 AM
As for the main problem with Apple customer service. There's a trick to getting the best service possible. Be considerate, charming. Remember the guy on the other end of the line most likely gets some big ***holes from time to time. Getting in their face about it won't solve the problem and won't want to make them fix your problem. Also at this point I think its time to get a hold of a manager. In a perfect world a manager at an Apple store. As someone stated physically showing up at a place with a defective system is the best way of getting results.
Finally as a person who has dealt with customer service from IBM, Dell, and Toshiba I can say that PC support is no better. Honestly. It all depends on who you get on the phone. I have run across some of the biggest brain dead techs on the planet through Dell. I'm not joking. I've had to correct them in their troubleshooting approach because whatever script they are reading from its messed up. Heck there have been more then a few times I couldn't even understand the person on the other end. :rolleyes: Thanks for exporting tech outside the country guys.

themadchemist
Nov 12, 2003, 08:21 AM
Originally posted by Jetson
I don't blame Daniel one bit. trying to deal with Apple Computer from a customer standpoint can still be frustrating. Forget talking to them on the phone. If you don't fit into one of their little scripted cubby holes, then you're placed on permanent hold. Their customer service and warranty policies still stink BIG TIME. I've had better luck going to an Apple store - but they still make you wait a very long time at the "Genius" counter before helping you out.


That's why you don't deal with the underlings too much...If you've got real problems that can't be solved, call Apple Headquarters. Call the CEO's office. Either someone will handle your case personally there or you will be transfered to exec. customer relations. Either way, if you speak confidently & explain your case, these people will do a lot. Remember, the higher you go, the more power people have. Some tool at the end of 800 SOS Apple can't do anything, but the heads of divisions can do a great deal.

themadchemist
Nov 12, 2003, 08:24 AM
Originally posted by SiliconAddict
There's something to be said about XP's themeing engine though. :)

Yes yes yes I know blasphemy. :p

This'll have to hold me until a G5 PowerBook :\

you just made my day!...in a sick, I want to vomit over that disgusting display, sort of way.

SiliconAddict
Nov 12, 2003, 10:02 AM
Originally posted by themadchemist
you just made my day!...in a sick, I want to vomit over that disgusting display, sort of way.

Hey! Unless Apple wants to make me a beta tester for OS X for i386 this is the only alternative to Windows XP by Fisher Price. :p

Too bad I didn't have enough room on the display to show you the Trillian iChat skin. There are whole communities dedicated to making XP as OS X like as possible.
http://jonmega.com/~iceman
http://www.aquaxp.com
http://aqua-soft.org

Heck there is someone working on an Expose version for Windows right now. But as you can guess it sucks right now.

batikdruid
Nov 17, 2003, 10:44 AM
If they won't replace it you have to get MEAN.
You have to call the Better Business Bureau and if you are persistent enough, they will actually get on a three way phone call with them and ask the tough questions.

There is no way that you can know for sure if you have a lemon within 10 days. That is ridiculous and probably illegal.

You must pursue it - there is no excuse for not having a working piece of equipment for that kind of money, whether its a mac, a pc , a car or anything!

dankim723
Nov 18, 2003, 06:42 PM
ok.. after several attemps.. i finally got to return the machine... they are charging me a 10% restocking fee but they said they would help me out with my next purchase if i get a new system.... Help me out guys.. i'm thinking of getting the g4 1.25ghz or the powerbook g4... i'm kinda afraid of going back to the g5's.... anyway... i realize.. you don't get anywhere calling on the phone.. they wouldn't even return it when i was at the store calling... i had to get the store manager to get on the phone with them.... thanks for all the advice and i think i'll give it one more shot... i still think i will keep my pc around untill i get everything sorted out.

me_94501
Nov 18, 2003, 07:10 PM
That's good to hear. Remember, you don't have to ditch you PC--you can become an "adder" instead of a switcher. If I were you, I'd go with the Power Mac G4. Hold off on a PowerBook G4, or at least the 15" model for a while. Of the six PowerBook G4s that Macworld had for review, half of them had some kind of screen trouble. The Power Mac G4 has been around a while so many of the kinks have been worked out (or at least they should be worked out).

Best of luck.

dankim723
Nov 18, 2003, 07:18 PM
Originally posted by bitfactory
no offense dank - but this is the dumbest thing i've ever read (and that's saying a LOT).

furthermore, a lot of your story doesn't add up... i've owned 19 Apple computers over the years, and have never experienced anything remotely like what you are talking about. i've received one "dog" (Titanium laptop that was flickering) - called them up, they sent me a box and i had my replacement in 2 days).

if your computer isn't working - drag it into the Apple Store, set it down on the counter and DEMAND they fix it or swap it. easy as that. they will fix it or swap it - they have no choice.

don't post your whining in the Macrumors discussion board - and don't post your whining on Apple's support site. fricken' call them and DEMAND to have it fixed NOW... why are you wasting time posting in all these forums??? just FIX THE DAMN THING.

sorry for the rant - but all these "i'm switching back" ********* stories are weak.




hmmmm.. sorry i couldn't give you all the information you needed... sir... i apologize that i was not thorough with my explination and didn't want to write 3 pages of interactions i had with apple... sorry i'm not a 7 foot giant that can pound his way through the apple store and DEMAND a refund by blasting fire out of his mouth as his voice makes the masses tremble.... your funny... anyway... sometimes things aren't as easy as you think my good man... i'm just saying.. this experience was terrible and i hope to never go through this again... and word of advice to you... get some help..

Les Kern
Nov 18, 2003, 07:29 PM
Originally posted by iJon
yeah my g5 and panther have been crashing at least 5 times a day. and they are hard crashes, plain lock ups like the old os 9 days.

Jeez, I really hate to point this out, but a few months ago that I said that I will buy the G5 only AFTER the rest of the devout users (i.e. "fools") do all the troubleshooting, and wait for about 10.3.5 for the G5. Now this particular nightmare might be (read: IS) the sign of a lemon as the scope of this poor souls problems are WAY beyond what we're normally seeing, but my original stance remains.
Who is the fool who talked this guy into getting a first-generation Mac as his first Mac? Hell, he could get a G4 1.42DP for less money. A proven boat with Panther or Jag.
Oh, and for the 2-billionth time: Shame on Apple Service

dcoltonbrown
Nov 19, 2003, 11:22 AM
This is the funniest thread yet...some of you are the biggest hippocrites I have ever seen. Panther is crashing 5 times a day? If it were windows, half of you would tirelessly bash windows and the other half would probably spend your time harrassing pc owners.

As for you dankim...a 10% restocking fee...you got ripped off by Apple. There is no reason you should pay any fee for a faulty product. If you ask me, that is a sign of an evil empire (empire is a bad word since Apple is far from having an empire!) Perhaps I could say that Apple is turning into a Mini Microsoft. I mean what kind of company would distribute an OS that makes your computer crash 5 times a day then charge you 10% to replace it! HOLY COW, that is shady in any book. You got screwed and everyone here knows it...you were under warranty and Apple is obligated to fix the problem. If I were you, I would make sure that you contact Jeanne Toulousse, director of Apple Customer Relations and make sure you are reimbursed for that 10% in other Apple products.

The funniest thing about all of this is that Apple will continue to launch faulty products and they will continue to screw it's customers, because they know that the zealots will instantly become apologists and defenders of the Apple way.

I am suprised that this thread has turned into PC bashing yet to distract everyone from the original issue...A VERY POOR APPLE PRODUCT. But it is alright, because bitfactory has owned 19 computers over the years and he has had only one issue - I don't believe him

sketchy
Nov 19, 2003, 02:32 PM
I don't know if you mentioned it or not -- were you running the G5 with the door off? the fans are supposed to be silent, but if the door is off they speed up, and if the plastic is off they go at full speed. Apparently it cannot properly cool the machine without the metal door on. ( I think this was on /. a while ago)

a lot of PC users apparently were doing this because they think it is cool to see inside of the computer that takes up a whole lot of desk space.

And I think they only charge a restocking fee if you return it becasue you don't like it -- could they duplicate it at an apple store? If so it is under warrenty. If you refused the repair or it could not be duplicated they might have the grounds to charge you.

spinner
Nov 19, 2003, 03:59 PM
Just a little tip from someone who has worked in customer service/sales at Gateway. Be nice...if you are nice, understanding, and patient people will try a lot harder to help you out. Believe me there is no shortage of *******s and you are definitely not the first one to "tell em how it is". Honestly, the more someone yelled or called me names etc. (not sure how I was personally responsible for countless disasters) the less likely I was to help and the more likely I was to purposely transfer you to a department that I knew wouldn't help at all.

Les Kern
Nov 19, 2003, 08:58 PM
Originally posted by dcoltonbrown
The funniest thing about all of this is that Apple will continue to launch faulty products and they will continue to screw it's customers, because they know that the zealots will instantly become apologists and defenders of the Apple way.


Kind of a sweeping statement that has no teeth? If you look around the boards, like at MacFixit, you'll see they are quite angry at Apple at times. There is and will always be a smattering of lemons that will cause the buyer to go nutty. Having purchased several million dollars of computers just in the last few years, I KNOW that the DOA/return rate for Apple is still WAY better than it's PC cousins. But one lemon should not deter anyone from losing sight of the product line's quality as a whole. That being said, I am aghast that Apple has the warranty they do, and that returning a defective product can be. at times, a horror. One other thought, when I read these stories online like this, I often wonder just what REALLY transpired in his conversations with Apple. We don't know the whole story so I believe nothing as a rule. There was mention of how to act when Apple is called, and I can tell you first hand that it's very true. A professional, courteous manner gets results by god. And it's not kissing ass, it's acting like an adult. Oh, and the whole "Apple zealot" thing is so passe! :) We all use what we use.

bitfactory
Nov 19, 2003, 09:26 PM
Originally posted by dcoltonbrown
As for you dankim...a 10% restocking fee...you got ripped off by Apple.


i agree with you on that - why return it and pay 10%? just get it fixed - correctly. jeesh. you did get ripped - HARD.

bitfactory has owned 19 computers over the years and he has had only one issue - I don't believe him

believe what you will - then again i rarely keep a system over 14 months, so i may not give a lot of time to 'fail' - but that's beside the point... initial quality out the door is relatively high with Apple - members of my family, my neighbors, and co-workers all have nothing but good things to say about their experiences with Apple CS as well.

mj_1903
Nov 19, 2003, 09:35 PM
I have owned 8 Mac's over 3 years and have only had one issue as well. Saying this of course, something will go wrong with one of my Macs.

jefhatfield
Nov 19, 2003, 09:57 PM
Originally posted by dcoltonbrown
This is the funniest thread yet...some of you are the biggest hippocrites I have ever seen. Panther is crashing 5 times a day? If it were windows, half of you would tirelessly bash windows and the other half would probably spend your time harrassing pc owners.

As for you dankim...a 10% restocking fee...you got ripped off by Apple. There is no reason you should pay any fee for a faulty product. If you ask me, that is a sign of an evil empire (empire is a bad word since Apple is far from having an empire!) Perhaps I could say that Apple is turning into a Mini Microsoft. I mean what kind of company would distribute an OS that makes your computer crash 5 times a day then charge you 10% to replace it! HOLY COW, that is shady in any book. You got screwed and everyone here knows it...you were under warranty and Apple is obligated to fix the problem. If I were you, I would make sure that you contact Jeanne Toulousse, director of Apple Customer Relations and make sure you are reimbursed for that 10% in other Apple products.

The funniest thing about all of this is that Apple will continue to launch faulty products and they will continue to screw it's customers, because they know that the zealots will instantly become apologists and defenders of the Apple way.

I am suprised that this thread has turned into PC bashing yet to distract everyone from the original issue...A VERY POOR APPLE PRODUCT. But it is alright, because bitfactory has owned 19 computers over the years and he has had only one issue - I don't believe him

mac zealots do two things...one doesn't hurt anybody but the zealot and the other hurts apple

1) THEY DON'T THINK
2) THEY TELL APPLE THAT THE LATEST THING (EVEN IF IT SUCKS) IS INSANELY GREAT, SO APPLE CONTINUES ON WITH IT NOT KNOWING ANY BETTER

:p

Les Kern
Nov 19, 2003, 10:35 PM
Originally posted by jefhatfield
mac zealots do two things...one doesn't hurt anybody but the zealot and the other hurts apple
:p

I doubt very much that Apple's business decisions are based on the nutty fringe's going orgasmic over the latest gizmo. Computer Zealots do something far worse: annoy me to the point of homicide.

dankim723
Nov 20, 2003, 04:52 AM
Originally posted by spinner
Just a little tip from someone who has worked in customer service/sales at Gateway. Be nice...if you are nice, understanding, and patient people will try a lot harder to help you out. Believe me there is no shortage of *******s and you are definitely not the first one to "tell em how it is". Honestly, the more someone yelled or called me names etc. (not sure how I was personally responsible for countless disasters) the less likely I was to help and the more likely I was to purposely transfer you to a department that I knew wouldn't help at all.

Name the top 5 mac retailers you know of and you probably would say the company i worked at.. i don't want to name names but seriously.. over the 5 years i worked there, i know how i reacted to customers that had fire under their @sses. Knowing that.. i feel that i was more than courtious to the reps over at apple.. i think it was about the 25th time i called in where i started getting annoyed.. or was it the 26th.. i lost count after 20's.. but anyway.. yeah, the thing that bothered me was that i felt misled about the whole situation... here is kind of timeline..

1. bought computer
2. had problems called in
3. troubleshooted, reformated, reinstalled, reformated, reinstalled
4. called back again... didn't fix problem (several times)
5. fast forward like 15 calls, talked to rep... said if i brought the computer in and they couldn't fix the computer, they would replace it
6. brought computer in
7. got back, still froze on me, called back.. said they couldn't replace because it was past 10 days.... (this is where i started getting frustrated)
8. said for me to bring computer back in... no chance of return (btw i was within 30 days at this point)
9. took computer in.. recieved back on the 30th day
10. kept freezing, called back.. rep told me that i was pass the 30 day mark to return (ooooh that made me pissed)... i was like.. what!?!?! you have to be kidding me... anyway..

long story short... i felt misled and handled poorly. Seriously.. when i worked at the mac retailer.. i saw many things.. and to be honest.. angry customers were the worst... so i take alot of those things in consideration when speaking to anyone on the phone because i sympathise with them... trust me, i know all the threats in the book first hand.. i never thought i would be one of those angry customers and the thing that even frustrated me the more was that i knew how they were reacting to my situation.. it was like that rolling eyes, put me on mute, put the phone away for 4 seconds to give me a taste of what i have coming to me.. please... whatever.. i just wanted my comp to work... i have heard other horror stories about the g5 lately too and i guess i'm not the only one... but as a first time mac user... long time mac advocate (oh.. i used to give presentation on mac's also saying how great they were and how superior their machines were to the pc) this computer was not acceptable.. funny thing is, i used to tell all my friends and good customers, do not get the computer as soon as it comes out... let the bugs work its way out and then jump in... i guess i felt like kid in candy store with the 64bit processor and shiny case and took the bait...

i regret that purchase and i do have to pay 10% restocking but i'm working something out with the apple store to possibly help me out with my next purchase (and yes.. i am forced to make another apple purchase if i want my money back). I'm willing though.. i really think that the g5's are too new and the techs just DON'T KNOW what some of the problems are yet.... he's my recommendation... DON'T ACT LIKE YOU KNOW WHEN YOU DON'T! it will save both parties a lot of head ache and trouble.. its called trust the customer and give him what he wants and if that means a replacement then do it... at least that what it should be if they stand by their product... tell you the truth.. after i got my power supply replaced on the g5 the first week.. that alone killed my purchase experince... did i tell you guys i have a degree in marketing as well? yeah.. well, apple really messed up on this one and just look at this board... over 2000 views... that can't hold up well with them and if it does.. shame on apple.. seriously... i really feel that apple is moving fast and they are making a great comeback but at the cost of success comes lack of attention to those who made them who they are today... i'm just sad that i had to experience this but i'm hoping my next MAC will be ok... i've been reallly debating if i should even go back to mac now... having dealt with all this but i dunno.. to be honest some of the people in this thread really changed my views about macs and the following (good and bad) but for the most part, i know macs are good computers and well built... just the people that are representing them are idiots... this could have been solved weeks ago but didn't work out that way... anyway.. PC's have always given me a headache but the good thing about the pc is that there are hundreds of people to ask how to troubleshoot and even i know how to trouble shoot a pc now... macs, hmmmm i think i know one.. and he was working with me back then as a tech support agent... and the funny thing is.. i knew more then him about alot of things... all in all, macs are great but are slowly becoming a apple monopoly... i'm telling you... sometimes having one is great but power does not lay in your hands anymore... just look at the pricing.. its funny because apple is screwing even the retail shops.. anyone reading this... just to let you know... please don't harrass your sales reps from apple retailers about pricing... i'm not kidding you when i say they have to take almost a loss on the machines to even sell them and compete with the other companies.... last time i remember i was selling the imac flat panels for 2% above cost.. that barely covers overhead.. its rediculous.. sometimes i wonder if Mr. Gates himself is puppeteering our good friend Jobs... anyway... mac rumors right? ahha good day.. wish me luck on my next comp.. I think i've decided on the 15 inch powerbook 1ghz.. i have a couple friends that have this and my partner has the 12 inch and it runs great except that he has this (T) issue.. when he presses (T) on the keyboard it goes ttttttttt... so when he types i goes like tttttthis... anyway... if you have any thoughts on this new pb... let me know before i get it.. the 20in imac looks cool too but dunno... i'm still scared though after this G5 incedent though.. i'm crossing my fingers..

dankim

dankim723
Nov 20, 2003, 05:00 AM
Originally posted by dcoltonbrown
This is the funniest thread yet...some of you are the biggest hippocrites I have ever seen. Panther is crashing 5 times a day? If it were windows, half of you would tirelessly bash windows and the other half would probably spend your time harrassing pc owners.

As for you dankim...a 10% restocking fee...you got ripped off by Apple. There is no reason you should pay any fee for a faulty product. If you ask me, that is a sign of an evil empire (empire is a bad word since Apple is far from having an empire!) Perhaps I could say that Apple is turning into a Mini Microsoft. I mean what kind of company would distribute an OS that makes your computer crash 5 times a day then charge you 10% to replace it! HOLY COW, that is shady in any book. You got screwed and everyone here knows it...you were under warranty and Apple is obligated to fix the problem. If I were you, I would make sure that you contact Jeanne Toulousse, director of Apple Customer Relations and make sure you are reimbursed for that 10% in other Apple products.

The funniest thing about all of this is that Apple will continue to launch faulty products and they will continue to screw it's customers, because they know that the zealots will instantly become apologists and defenders of the Apple way.

I am suprised that this thread has turned into PC bashing yet to distract everyone from the original issue...A VERY POOR APPLE PRODUCT. But it is alright, because bitfactory has owned 19 computers over the years and he has had only one issue - I don't believe him

oh by the way dcoltonbrown, you are on the level ... some of these jokers need to catch up.. good looking out..

dcoltonbrown
Nov 20, 2003, 08:54 AM
Originally posted by dankim723
oh by the way dcoltonbrown, you are on the level ... some of these jokers need to catch up.. good looking out..

Trust me when I say that I have been through a similar situation with my iBook...please take my advice and do not...NOT...accept the restocking option! Call Apple Corporate...408-996-1010 and ask for Jeanne Toulouse or fax her at 408-974-2786. This is the route that I took...and I wasn't nice about it! It resulted in a new iBook upgraded to a 900.

Apple is used to its customers being "nice" and voluntarily bending over...thats why you are going through what you are. Don't be nice, don't be courteous! Demand an immediate resolution.

spinner
Nov 20, 2003, 09:34 AM
Originally posted by dankim723
Name the top 5 mac retailers you know of and you probably would say the company i worked at.. i don't want to name names but seriously.. over the 5 years i worked there, i know how i reacted to customers that had fire under their @sses. Knowing that.. i feel that i was more than courtious to the reps over at apple.. i think it was about the 25th time i called in where i started getting annoyed.. or was it the 26th.. i lost count after 20's.. but anyway.. yeah, the thing that bothered me was that i felt misled about the whole situation... here is kind of timeline...
dankim

dankim723...no offense dude just trying help out. I have read the whole thread and realize that you have been in the biz for a while, but I don't know you or how you reacted on the phone. I apologize if it sounded like I was hasseling you. :(

dcoltonbrown
Nov 20, 2003, 09:34 AM
Originally posted by Les Kern
Kind of a sweeping statement that has no teeth? If you look around the boards, like at MacFixit, you'll see they are quite angry at Apple at times. There is and will always be a smattering of lemons that will cause the buyer to go nutty. Having purchased several million dollars of computers just in the last few years, I KNOW that the DOA/return rate for Apple is still WAY better than it's PC cousins. But one lemon should not deter anyone from losing sight of the product line's quality as a whole. That being said, I am aghast that Apple has the warranty they do, and that returning a defective product can be. at times, a horror. One other thought, when I read these stories online like this, I often wonder just what REALLY transpired in his conversations with Apple. We don't know the whole story so I believe nothing as a rule. There was mention of how to act when Apple is called, and I can tell you first hand that it's very true. A professional, courteous manner gets results by god. And it's not kissing ass, it's acting like an adult. Oh, and the whole "Apple zealot" thing is so passe! :) We all use what we use.

I believe nothing as a rule either! Thats why, whenever someone becomes an apologist for apple by criticizing PC's, they lose all credibility in my book.

Someone answer this question...if we are talking about apples...why would you bring up oranges. Seems to be a defense mechanism to me. When you talk about Mcdonalds, do you bring up Burger King or Taco Bell?

Normal Person: I went to Burger King and they forgot my fries. Those idiots...I'm pissed. Then I went back, and they told me that they could only give me "refurbished" fries. I asked what that was and the manager told me that they would just drop an old batch of fries back in the grease to warm it up. I'm never going to BK again...

BK Zealot: Yeah, but 5 years ago, I went to McDonalds and the bun was soggy. It took them 7 minutes to get me a new burger...BK only takes 5.8 minutes...but I have NEVER had a problem with BK and I have been served over 1 billion times. BK is so much better than Mc$. Switch back to Mc$ if you want, but remember , there will always be bad food - and I can assure you, since I have been to BK over 1 billion times and Mc$ over 10 million times - I know for a fact that Mc$ messes up so much more than BK - (forget the proportions). By the way, you are an idiot...Ronald Mcdonald is the most evil clown of all!

BK Zealot2: Yeah, why are you feeding this Mc$ troll...he is insulting our saviour, The Whopper...lets castrate him so he won;t be able to breed any Mc$ loving kids...Mc$ is evil, all they are worried about is making money. I am tired of people complaining about BK on a BK board...JUST BECAUSE YOU HAD BAD FOOD AT BK DOESN'T MEAN ALL BK FOOD IS BAD!

BK Zealot3: Yeah, I just love the sexy fries at BK...especially the way the light glistens off the perfectly placed salt crystals waiting to dissolve in my mouth. And the packaging it comes in is just great...sexy, so much better than the way Mc$ throws everything together. I save all of my BK packaging because it is the most artistic, trend making packaging the universe has ever seen. Oh yeah...did anyone see BK in that new movie, Elf? BK will overtake Mc$ in 3 years, 2 days, 22 hours and 59 secs.

batikdruid
Nov 20, 2003, 10:08 AM
dcoltonbrown, that was great!

dankim: 3 words, dear:


BETTER



BUSINESS



BUREAU.

Seriously, take it from me - companies HATE HATE HATE to hear from these guys, and will do things like sell you their mother in order to satisfy you, I promise.

Just ALWAYS - keep a record of your phone calls, what you were told, who told you and what you did. You INFORMED them of the problem before 10 days - they can not then say you went over the 10 days. In the future, when in doubt with any product, esp. a computer, just tell them in the first phone call you want to return it, yes, I want to return it , NO, I want to send it back for another, NO NO NO,you don't understand, I am not getting it fixed, this IS what I am doing, I am sending it back. Problem? Just MENTION the bbb, aah, it's wonderful how sometimes their whole attitude changes. It's difficult, but in the end you will win.

I recently had a problem with an insurance company - they charged us after we had canceled. Called the ins. company, 'no problem, its our fault' sent the money back... minus $90. "OH, that's NASE's portion (Natl ass. of self employed) - called them, "oh, we're sorry, you had to inform us back then," "well, I did, i have a copy of the fax right here" "well, we don't have any record" blah blah blah, we absolutley will not send you $90, forget it. "

Filed complaint to bbb online - piece of cake. Got phone call from bbb - they contacted NASE. NASE called us and said' nyah nyah - too bad, we STILL aren't sending you $$ but your complaint has been settled as far as we are concerned " meaning if someone looks up NASE at bbb, it says they had complaints but all were settled.

3 months later I just got a check in the mail for $90.
DO IT - you have all the power on your side.

bitfactory
Nov 20, 2003, 10:53 AM
Originally posted by dankim723
i regret that purchase and i do have to pay 10% restocking but i'm working something out with the apple store to possibly help me out with my next purchase (and yes.. i am forced to make another apple purchase if i want my money back).

that's the LEAST they could do (deduct your re-stocking fee)... i don't get it - the computer doesn't work correctly, so you pay 10% of a G5 purchase (not cheap) to give it back to them?

i hope your new purchase works out.

dankim723
Nov 23, 2003, 05:06 AM
so.. i got my g5 replaced and just started up this new 15in pb and it looks great. They gave me credit for my 10% restocking fee on the g5 but didn't give me my shipping cost or the 10% back on the monitor. I'm so over dealing with this situation that i just said fine... I might call back on monday to find out from the manager if i can get some of my money back but we'll see...

so here is the weird thing... I was installing all the apps and i noticed there was a dead pixel in the center a little off to the left. I obviously can't see it when i have a light colored window up but when i launched a program that had black on the screen.. it is very noticable. I went to the pb discussions on apple.com and it looks like a lot of people have these white spot issues.. mine is not a white spots but just one dead pixle smack in the middle of the screen. Kinda annoying but not sure what i can do.. I remember when i used to work at the retailer, we would say that anything under 3 pixels is an acceptable number of dead pixels... karma? damn.. i would only say that because i was told to say that. Does anyone have any advice to this? First time laptop user second mac computer (now) and not sure if i have a valid complaint to apple about this dead pixel.. if someone can advise i would appreciate it... keep in mind.. i'm so over being angry at this point and am totally hesitant to call back and go through all that mess again... don't get me wrong, this machine is great (much better than the g5) but its still not to my 100%. I've read of people sending thier pb's back and getting new parts and working great after but they are saying they have white spots on their screen which i do not have... btw... it's awesome being able to lay in bed and work on my comp... but still one bad pixel... ewh.. please advise...

billyboy
Nov 23, 2003, 05:47 AM
Glad you got sorted.

I believe it is four dead pixels before Apple will say you have an unacceptable screen. Noone could afford to buy the screen that comes with a guarantee of zero dead pixels.

I read you might be able to massage the pixel back to life.

ITR 81
Nov 23, 2003, 07:22 AM
If you buy an LCD you will get dead pixel sooner or later. It's only bad when you get 6-8 dead pixels...but it's up to OEM to decide what is bad enough for a replacement to be sent out.

Fukui
Nov 23, 2003, 10:01 AM
TBO, I don't think you'll get any company to replace a single dead pixel.

If there is, I'd like to know....

ChrisH3677
Nov 23, 2003, 08:01 PM
There's some things I don't understand....

1) If you're into all the things Macs are best at and you've sold them for five years and and you're a Gold Cert then why is the G5 only your first Mac?

2) As a Gold Cert I would have expected you would have enough experience to be able to reasonably quickly determine that there was a problem local to the machine and return it to Apple for replacement. And with 5 years experience, I'd expect you'd know the tricks for getting a machine replaced.

3) I can't see why you spent so much time on tech support when you would have known more than them anyway.

4) "...after seeing all the ads and hearing wonderful stories..." If you were around them for 5 years and a gold cert, why did it take the ads and stories to convince you to switch?

5) Again, being gold cert and 5 years around Macs, why are you only a newbie here?

6) With 5 years experience, I'm surprised this is your first bad experience with Apple and their support system. ALL the major IT vendors have countless support horror stories told about them.

I'm an IT manager in a Windows environment and only switched my personal computer to Apple 3 months ago.

It doesn't matter which vendor I deal with, I dread having to contact their support or pursue a warranty. I hold my breath that nothing happens to my Ti-Book because I've always assumed that Apple would be just as difficult as every other IT vendor.

None of them like to admit fault.


thanks

ethernet76
Nov 24, 2003, 02:36 AM
Originally posted by dankim723
ie = the most universally use browser in the world hands down... meaning more website are designed to be compatible with ie... meaning less bugs... i'll wait a bit until netscape puts gets their feet back in the game and see.... i guess my answer is i don't trust the african safari hunt browser yet..

Microsoft killed IE for mac for a reason, and it wasn't because of Netscape.

hulugu
Nov 24, 2003, 02:49 AM
Originally posted by ethernet76
Microsoft killed IE for mac for a reason, and it wasn't because of Netscape.

I'm glad they killed IE, I hated that buggy hunk of code. Now, for once people might actually go out and try something else. There are other browsers out there! Mozilla, Camino, iCab, Safari, the remnants of Netscape. When I got my TiBook I used Explorer to download the OSX version of Netscape. When Safari came out, I tried it and I love it. It's far faster, far more intiuitive and handles non-standard websites fairly well. I've had few problems with it, so for anyone whose standing on the fence, try the program for a few days, if it sucks you can always delete it.