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MacRumors
Nov 19, 2003, 03:21 AM
Amidst the flurry and disbelief of the 20" iMac rumors (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/11/20031117160727.shtml) on Monday... one small rumor slipped through without being addressed.

The original ThinkSecret report (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/nov03hardware.html) contained a small blurb about a sub $1000 device:

One source also said that another product is in the pipeline for future announcement in the sub-$1000 range, and we’re seeking further details.


The blurb was since removed, presumably awaiting further details... but Appleinsider also posted (http://www.appleinsider.com/news.php?id=243) information they had available about the 20" iMacs and Dual 1.8GHz PowerMac and also referenced a third "mystery" product priced at $749 USD.

The identity of the 3rd product remains unknown, but speculation suggests the possibility of long-awaited Apple Display updates. No time-frame is available on the introduction of this next product.

vwcruisn
Nov 19, 2003, 03:28 AM
Dual 3.0 G5 Powerbooks! ;)

Snowy_River
Nov 19, 2003, 03:30 AM
Rather than a display with no computer update, I think I'll hope for a computer with no display in this price range. Headless consumer Mac...

Cube anyone?

Thanatoast
Nov 19, 2003, 03:39 AM
At that price it'll be a G4. And I certainly don't object to that.

For those who are looking to switch (upgrade :) ) to a mac, a $749 G4 cube would certainly fit the bill.

Shoot, for that price I could probably even talk my parents into one. A nice, solid machine at a great price.

sweet.

el gringo
Nov 19, 2003, 04:39 AM
Please! It would be the perfect entry model for lot's of switchers. And, if it's the Cube design - I'm going to get one myself :D

But if it's a cube with say 1.25 Ghz G4, 2 ram-slots, 80 GB HD, FW400 + USB2 a price around 599-699 would be more appropriate - don't you thing :rolleyes:

deep square leg
Nov 19, 2003, 04:50 AM
A PDA perhaps? Newton II!

(I have no idea what things cost in $US, I might be right off the mark.)

Sun Baked
Nov 19, 2003, 05:05 AM
Would be nice to see a desktop version of the Fibre Channel RAID using off-the-shelf SATA drives.

CmdrLaForge
Nov 19, 2003, 06:05 AM
I don't belief that this is about the displays because it should be three products then and not sub $1000. Don't think that only the 17" display is updated and the others not.

Looking forward to a cube G4 1,25GHz.

Dont Hurt Me
Nov 19, 2003, 06:43 AM
i would guess at this price perhaps a video ipod, i doubt very much this will be a computer and if it is i sure dont want see another g4.

oingoboingo
Nov 19, 2003, 06:45 AM
Hmmm...$749. It's probably just a 256MB upgrade kit for the PowerBooks *boom tish!*

Stike
Nov 19, 2003, 06:51 AM
Itīs the second coming of the Newton
*runs, dodges, rolls and hides*

Well, looking at other rumors and thinking about the 20th anniversary of the Mac AND considering the possible return of the cube, I would say:
itīs a 60 GB iPod :rolleyes:

pkradd
Nov 19, 2003, 07:01 AM
There's not going to be a cube. It was a failure, both techinically and sales wise. People didn't like it (except Mac fans). You don't go backwards, you go forwards. There is already an "entry level" computer from Apple, it's called an eMac. $749 is a guess.... a rumor. As this site has said, there's no specific information. Every time Apple comes out with some new product there are always rumors of "something else" that never happen. Remember the "tablet"? All the descriptions about size (7 X 9), pricing, etc.? Where art thou?

aasmund
Nov 19, 2003, 07:05 AM
Originally posted by Stike
Itīs the second coming of the Newton
*runs, dodges, rolls and hides*

Well, looking at other rumors and thinking about the 20th anniversary of the Mac AND considering the possible return of the cube, I would say:
itīs a 60 GB iPod :rolleyes:

That device is not possible, as there is no 60gb 1.8inch drive yet.

aasmund
Nov 19, 2003, 07:07 AM
Originally posted by pkradd
There's not going to be a cube. It was a failure, both techinically and sales wise. People didn't like it (except Mac fans). You don't go backwards, you go forwards. There is already an "entry level" computer from Apple, it's called an eMac. $749 is a guess.... a rumor. As this site has said, there's no specific information. Every time Apple comes out with some new product there are always rumors of "something else" that never happen. Remember the "tablet"? All the descriptions about size (7 X 9), pricing, etc.? Where art thou?

It was a failure bot technically and sales wise. This is true. The main reason for this was very high price, and few features. However people loved it. at my office, the guy with the cube was always getting lots of attention for it - and he still does.

aasmund
Nov 19, 2003, 07:09 AM
Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
i would guess at this price perhaps a video ipod, i doubt very much this will be a computer and if it is i sure dont want see another g4.

Why not?

the G4 is actually a pretty good archiecture. it is very comarable to Pentium M for example, which is enjoying huge success.

Stike
Nov 19, 2003, 07:14 AM
Originally posted by aasmund
That device is not possible, as there is no 60gb 1.8inch drive yet.

Yes. Look at my statement again. Considering all those vague clues and rumors about that product, and the VERY small chance of another low-end Mac coming out, I canīt think of anything useful at the moment with that price point. So I made an impossible guess, just to say:

I donīt have the slightest idea!

ITR 81
Nov 19, 2003, 07:19 AM
New eMac or New iPod Video player.
At $750 the price of an iPod Video Player would be same price as new Sony Video/MP3 player that is debuting in Japan next week.

New lower priced eMac but with more features and faster processor.

Squire
Nov 19, 2003, 07:28 AM
Originally posted by CmdrLaForge
I don't belief that this is about the displays because it should be three products then and not sub $1000. Don't think that only the 17" display is updated and the others not.

Looking forward to a cube G4 1,25GHz.

I hope you're right but my money is on a 17" widescreen display. The normal 17" LCD is $699 so $749 is about right. I know that Samsung makes a 17" widescreen monitor. I bet that's it. (After all, the current model looks a little out of place next to the others.) I'm afraid that this is going to be another case of the Mac fans getting worked up over nothing.

Let's hope I'm wrong.

Squire

bensisko
Nov 19, 2003, 07:39 AM
My Guess: The eBook. A laptop for education that contains no optical drive, and only an ethernet and firewire port. It will contain a 10 gig hard drive and a lower end G4 chip. The eBook will be light weight and smaller due to it's 10" screen. It will also be equipped with Airport Extreme, and feature a new program for Panther that, when plugged into a desktop Mac via Firewire, you can easily install programs remotely and transfer files. Ultra-portable.

Hey, as long as we're all dreaming.....

jayscheuerle
Nov 19, 2003, 07:46 AM
The name isn't important. If Apple comes through with a simple, minimally expandable headless, it will mean that they're actually listening to consumers. But history shows that Apple is more likely to do something that very few people want, but want loudly because of the "coolness" factor.

A $749 iBox would send their stock through the roof...

gwuMACaddict
Nov 19, 2003, 07:51 AM
Originally posted by deep square leg
A PDA perhaps? Newton II!

(I have no idea what things cost in $US, I might be right off the mark.)

sounds a little pricey for a newton to me... maybe a headless g4. this is a pretty wierd price point for apple. nothing really in this range to compare it with

drizahy4
Nov 19, 2003, 07:52 AM
Come on New G4 Cube. I got my 1-click payment waiting for you.

SiliconAddict
Nov 19, 2003, 07:52 AM
Originally posted by Macrumors
third "mystery" product priced at $749 USD.


If true this could signal that Apple is serious about trying to win back users from the PC world. I DO NOT care what anyone says. These sub $1000 PC's have eaten away at Apple's market share.
If I can honestly go up to a person who is having trouble with their 4 year old computer who is looking for nothing other then the basics in a computer system and point them to a sub $1000 Mac I'll be a happy person. Because until now I could not, in good conscience, point a users to a $1,300 computer when they can get something comp equipped in a PC for $500 cheaper. Here's hoping its true and it happens soon,

ITR 81
Nov 19, 2003, 07:54 AM
You can compare it to the lowend eMac.

jayscheuerle
Nov 19, 2003, 07:59 AM
Originally posted by ITR 81
You can compare it to the lowend eMac.

Only if they want a bulky, 50 lb., 1 piece marshmallow with a built-in CRT. Most people have their own working monitor that they're happy with and have no interest in this type of machine.

Dont Hurt Me
Nov 19, 2003, 08:00 AM
Originally posted by aasmund
Why not?

the G4 is actually a pretty good archiecture. it is very comarable to Pentium M for example, which is enjoying huge success. the g4 is pretty good for the portables & emac but there needs to be a line of consumer towers based on a single g5 and perhaps the 1.6 motherboard, make all pro towers duallies, make a consumer machine that is half the size or smaller then the towers. the g4 is fine for portables but why did apple come up with the g5? because g4 towers was getting smoked!and they were allready using 2 overclocked g4's! dont fool yourselves

clonenode
Nov 19, 2003, 08:11 AM
Here's the secret to understanding WHERE this rumor comes from. They get reports at the Apple Retail stores, telling them what shipments to expect. The 20" iMacs hit the stores Monday morning and were revealed to some of the staff later that day.

NOTHING definitive showed up on the rumor sites until (we can guess) an Apple Retail employee (manager level?) gained knowledge of the new hardware... then leaked it.

But what of this missing $749 device? This is what has shown up on the shipping reports, but only as a price and product number. As soon as it hits the stores, AND the box is opened, then we'll hear all about it here and elsewhere.

It's unfortunate for Apple, but they're leaking at their weakest point... the retail area. No one in Cupertino, who has worked long and hard on some new piece of hardware or software, would dare expose it until the time is right.

jocknerd
Nov 19, 2003, 08:11 AM
Originally posted by pkradd
There's not going to be a cube. It was a failure, both techinically and sales wise. People didn't like it (except Mac fans). You don't go backwards, you go forwards. There is already an "entry level" computer from Apple, it's called an eMac. $749 is a guess.... a rumor. As this site has said, there's no specific information. Every time Apple comes out with some new product there are always rumors of "something else" that never happen. Remember the "tablet"? All the descriptions about size (7 X 9), pricing, etc.? Where art thou?

A consumer device has to be sold at a consumer price level.

the_mole1314
Nov 19, 2003, 08:27 AM
Originally posted by Stike
Yes. Look at my statement again. Considering all those vague clues and rumors about that product, and the VERY small chance of another low-end Mac coming out, I canīt think of anything useful at the moment with that price point. So I made an impossible guess, just to say:

I donīt have the slightest idea!

HAHA...

hey, WAIT! ;) :p

ITR 81
Nov 19, 2003, 08:27 AM
The eMac sells well to schools and folks that can not afford a iMac.

Lets take the eMac for instance and kill the CRT. I think the top eMac could sell for $750 easily without the CRT.

Also has anyone thought it could be some sortof highend software?? or maybe some hardware component for FCP??

pilotgi
Nov 19, 2003, 08:30 AM
As much as I'd like to see a headless Mac, I don't think I'd buy one with a G4. Sure it's fine for lite users but the G5 is so much more advanced and I prefer to buy newer tech, not older. I think potential switchers would be more impressed if the G5 was an option.

OTOH, I would love for Apple to add a headless Mac to their product line. I suppose they could offer a G4 version now and a G5 version next summer.

the_mole1314
Nov 19, 2003, 08:33 AM
For my opinion, I think it's new Cinemal Displays, but here's what I say I think should come out...

A cheap no monitor. Make it small, put in those old 1.4ghz G4s in, make it expandable, and allow for people to use their current monitors on it. Normal people don't throw away CRTs, it's from the old days of when CRTs cost a butt load.

Photorun
Nov 19, 2003, 08:34 AM
My guess it's a Pony... with a G6 inside!

yoman
Nov 19, 2003, 08:38 AM
If $749 is truly the price point, and there truly is a product that will come with that price point. I wonder how long we will have to wait to find out what it is. As said in the article no time frame has been noted.

:cool:

roy_dan
Nov 19, 2003, 08:43 AM
I don't know if Apple would market a headless G4 at that price point. It could hurt iMac sales. I know I would rather buy a separate G4 Cube "or whatever" and 20" LCD for about $2048. Then I could keep the monitor when it's time to upgrade to the G5. These LCD's are becoming quite then investment. If you are going to lure PC users then don't forget how they've been programmed to think......upgradability!

VeeDubMac
Nov 19, 2003, 08:43 AM
Here's my take:
Apple Edu has emacs at $749 now .
But I do think there could be a market for a headless mac, at the right price. A lot of PC users would be interested in something to replace their PC boxes/towers and be able to keep their monitors. So, a "Cube" or something with broad support for different types of monitors and some room for expansion.

Plus, Every single person I show Panther to is AMAZED! It would be great for Apple to have something cheap so people can use Panther. But $749 isn't cheap enough if you ask me, unless it's more powerful than the eMac. Actually, I'd like to see a headless mac with decent power (1.25 G4 or something) that includes a Superdrive. I'd buy that for $749.

my $.02

ITR 81
Nov 19, 2003, 08:43 AM
I say next week. It will either come out at the MacExpo in London or at the in store event..but it will happen before the end of the month..to get it into the holiday sales. Because I doubt they would release anything else in Dec because it would then just be better to wait for US MacExpo or the CES show to make a debut.

amichalo
Nov 19, 2003, 08:44 AM
Apple would not waste marketing dollars and "hype clout" over releasing a new case for an LCD - even if it were somthing fancy like a new aspect ratio or daisychainable multi-head, etc.

Plus that has nothing to do with MUSIC which is what the in-store Apple event on the 28th is about!

So, my conjecture is that it is some sort of "jukebox" music server device for the home:
* standard AC plug for continuous power
* wifi/either connections to home network
* RCA/fiber preamp to home theater systems
* perhaps direct speaker connections for standalone tunes (think dorm room)
* larger capacity HDs avaialable for fewer dollars b/c size/weight is less of an issue
* new iTunes to allow this device to manage all music and select a subset of music to sync to other mobile devices (iPod, PowerBook, etc)

I'd shell out $750 in a heartbeat for that - maybe even more.

VeeDubMac
Nov 19, 2003, 08:47 AM
Originally posted by pilotgi
As much as I'd like to see a headless Mac, I don't think I'd buy one with a G4. Sure it's fine for lite users but the G5 is so much more advanced and I prefer to buy newer tech, not older. I think potential switchers would be more impressed if the G5 was an option.

That is a good point. A headless Mac at the same price point as an Edu priced eMac, but that was a G5 would be really nice. It would make decisions harder, but it would be a way to get a G5 cheaper. I don't know though... $749 for a G5? Probably not. Not yet at least... :rolleyes:

ITR 81
Nov 19, 2003, 08:50 AM
Take the top end eMac which already includes a superdrive and make it headless and with the cost savings from removing the CRT then they can add in a 1.25 G4 processor atleast and maybe more ram.

The eMac line needs more power and needs to stay cheap.

$749 is for the lowend eMac with edu discount..think if consumer price dropped to $749 then that would mean edu price would be around $699 bucks...and the top end would be way under the 1 grand mark.

FlamDrag
Nov 19, 2003, 08:53 AM
The Apple event and this alleged device are not necessarily related to one another.

I hope that we continue to see new prices / devices and more between now and Thanksgiving b/c I highly doubt that we'll see anything after until mid-January.

ITR 81
Nov 19, 2003, 08:55 AM
I doubt we will see a G5 iMac or eMac until end of next yr if not until 2005.

But I bet we will see a 64bit OS soon after the G5 PB line is released.

tduality
Nov 19, 2003, 08:59 AM
Originally posted by pilotgi


OTOH, I would love for Apple to add a headless Mac to their product line. I suppose they could offer a G4 version now and a G5 version next summer.

Alright, I give up. I have to ask: What's a headless Mac and what's so special about it?

3-22
Nov 19, 2003, 08:59 AM
Probably some new screen, judging by the price a mid-size one.

I doubt it's going to be a computer, if you want a good entry level get an eMac. It's sub-$1000, and comes with a monitor!

Maybe some new media device, maybe like a "media center" for your TV. Watch movies, see pictures, and listen to iTunes on your Mac from your home entertainment center using your remote. :)

Sol
Nov 19, 2003, 09:01 AM
If this device is a cube, I doubt that it would be G5. At that price it would stop iMac and eMac sales.

A G4 cube, at the price it should have been the first time, would complement the other lines.

Plastic or metal?

ITR 81
Nov 19, 2003, 09:03 AM
I doubt it be a media center because just how Jobs talked about not liking media computers at all..but you never know.

ITR 81
Nov 19, 2003, 09:04 AM
Originally posted by Sol
If this device is a cube, I doubt that it would be G5. At that price it would stop iMac and eMac sales.

A G4 cube, at the price it should have been the first time, would complement the other lines.

Plastic or metal?

Both!

micvog
Nov 19, 2003, 09:05 AM
A "G4 cube"-like device with a built-in KVM switch to place next to my PC, and share a common keyboard, mouse and display, would get my money without hesitation. At $749, I would even accept a 1GHz G4 with a Radeon 9200.

For me, the eMac isn't an option because of its screen, not because of its processor. I imagine there are more than a few switchers-in-waiting who feel the same.

AHDuke99
Nov 19, 2003, 09:09 AM
Originally posted by Squire
I hope you're right but my money is on a 17" widescreen display. The normal 17" LCD is $699 so $749 is about right. I know that Samsung makes a 17" widescreen monitor. I bet that's it. (After all, the current model looks a little out of place next to the others.) I'm afraid that this is going to be another case of the Mac fans getting worked up over nothing.

Let's hope I'm wrong.

Squire

It would be a Gobi G3 if that happened, prolly at 1.1GHz

ipiloot
Nov 19, 2003, 09:12 AM
Originally posted by micvog
A "G4 cube"-like device with a built-in KVM switch to place next to my PC, and share a common keyboard, mouse and display, would get my money without hesitation. At $749, I would even accept a 1GHz G4 with a Radeon 9200.

For me, the eMac isn't an option because of its screen, not because of its processor. I imagine there are more than a few switchers-in-waiting who feel the same.

Like me. I actually hope that Apple makes headless low-end eMac for $500. I'd buy a machine for my wife then. today, the eMac is just pointless for my needs. What do i do with my current screen?

SiliconAddict
Nov 19, 2003, 09:21 AM
Originally posted by ITR 81
You can compare it to the lowend eMac.

Think again:

$799.00
1GHz PowerPC G4
128MB SDRAM
40GB Ultra ATA drive
Combo drive


$719.99
www.e4me.com
-2Ghz AMD Athlon XP 2800 (Mhz myth aside this is a speedy CPU.)
-512 MB DDR
-160 GB HDD
-DVD +/- RW Drive (Write Max: 4x DVD+/-R, 2.4x DVD+RW, 2x DVD-RW, 16x CD-R and 10x CD-RW disks

Now you add a decent flat panel display or even a CRT for $150-$200 and you have a system that basically blows away the eMac. The iMac is at least somewhat comparable to this. Apple needs a cheaper computer because I will not point anyone to a Mac when there is a PC solution that may be of similar price but you get more bang for your buck.

I’m not going to lie to make a switcher out of someone. When I recommend a Mac I do it on the basis of what the user’s experience with windows is, what his/her ease of use with Windows is, what they want to do with that computer, and how much they are willing to spend. I have made several converts of a few people in the office I work in (IT.) which I think is ironic since I have yet to get a Mac myself. *sighs and points to his sig.* Bottom line: IMHO, Apple needs a more robust system at that cheaper price point.

toughboy
Nov 19, 2003, 09:21 AM
Originally posted by Thanatoast
At that price it'll be a G4. And I certainly don't object to that.

For those who are looking to switch (upgrade :) ) to a mac, a $749 G4 cube would certainly fit the bill.

Shoot, for that price I could probably even talk my parents into one. A nice, solid machine at a great price.

sweet.

CUBEY!!! oh please!!!
it would sell like hotcakes!! and be sure that I'll be buying one too!!!

ITR 81
Nov 19, 2003, 09:33 AM
I was only comparing it to the lowend eMac due to price.

Now why not make headless eMac with superdrive with a 1.25GHz G4 for $749 bucks consumer level and $699 with EDU discount and the superdrive would be a 8 speed drive and not 4 speed like on that econo PC.

As for a 1GHz vz a 2GHz intel or amd brand..well when my friend compared his Dell 2GHz to my 1GHz he lost out on all fronts except for the gaming area. He actually was going to buy a Apple until he saw the Dell for cheaper price and thought it would perform better since it had double the clock-cycle..but he even said apparently that wasn't true.

dieselg4
Nov 19, 2003, 09:34 AM
I think it'll be the other direction of the iMac. A headless hemisphere (or maybe a Sphere! Trec Cool . . .) that you can attach your own monitor to wihtout investin substantial amounts of money into a computer that will someday be obsolete. (read 20" iMac)

I had an eMac before, and what I really deplored was its buily-in CRT. It sertainly is not the best CRT avaiable, and buying another looks silly. I don't game, but i do use photoshop and run multiple apps. It would still be serving me well if I was able to buy a 19" eMac, or just the bottom portion. I don't need alot of SPEED for what i do, but i do like alot of SCREEN for what i do.

A white ball with acryliic feet would be sweet. or even a cylinder. Make it processor upgradable with 2 spare ram slots, 3 USb, FW 400 & FW 800, blah blah. G4 1.33 or 1.42.

vannote
Nov 19, 2003, 09:36 AM
A bare bones, no keyboard, no mouse, headless, not even a video card, single processor Xgrid node with an InfiniHost card.

Ok, never mind, too far out there...

cofdogbud
Nov 19, 2003, 09:41 AM
$749...I wonder... if

iPod is to iPodXX
as
iChat is to iChatAV

DrGruv1
Nov 19, 2003, 09:42 AM
second the call for an Ebook

g4
10" screen
no optical drive
airport

If this could hit the magical $600 price point, they would sell very well. Would you rather have a treo 600 or a portable mac?

ITR 81
Nov 19, 2003, 09:42 AM
What about a barebones eMac?
One thats headless, no keyboard, no mouse and you can choose your processor either the 1.25, 1.33, or 1.42 and comes with lowend ATi card unless you upgrade to something more. Priced as low as $500 bucks and with EDU discount $459 bucks.

ITR 81
Nov 19, 2003, 09:45 AM
Originally posted by DrGruv1
second the call for an Ebook

g4
10" screen
no optical drive
airport

If this could hit the magical $600 price point, they would sell very well. Would you rather have a treo 600 or a portable mac?

With the EDU discount you would almost be there because it would then be in the $699 range or less.

soosy
Nov 19, 2003, 09:50 AM
Regarding Apple's infrequent Display updates --- Boo!

Price... technology.. even style... All of these need updates more often.

Comparing the stats on Apple's displays to competitors like Formac and you see how far behind they are.

Come on, Apple, keep us updated!

And though it was noble to go all LCD... it would also have been cool to keep a cheapy CRT around. oh well.

DrGruv1
Nov 19, 2003, 09:51 AM
$699 would trigger the credit card:)

With the EDU discount you would almost be there because it would then be in the $699 range or less.

VeeDubMac
Nov 19, 2003, 09:56 AM
I am cube owner itching for an upgrade. If something like this comes out it could hold me over until a G5 powerbook!

tny
Nov 19, 2003, 10:09 AM
Originally posted by DrGruv1
second the call for an Ebook

g4
10" screen
no optical drive
airport

If this could hit the magical $600 price point, they would sell very well. Would you rather have a treo 600 or a portable mac?
A 10" iBook would be MORE expensive than the 12", not less. Would involve too much miniaturization.

At $749, we'll see either

a. a G3 eBook, similar to the original iceBook, or

b. a new eMac, or

c. a headless iMac (headless means "no integrated monitor", to explain to the one poster who asked), or

d. a 17" cinema display (i.e., widescreen).

clonenode
Nov 19, 2003, 10:13 AM
Someone suggested a sphere on legs for the possible headless iMac. What if it is shaped like a cylinder...

...I give you the G4 Tube!

sneakerpimp
Nov 19, 2003, 10:15 AM
Yea that's right, the DJ-iPod!

1. It's a music special event
2. They've been working with DJs on this awhile now (previous news articles)
3. Might as well create a boffo - kitchensink iPod (the g5 of ipods) - mo $$
4. iPods are selling like hotcakes at iHop
5. I really want it to happen

Specs:
60 G drive
new updated touch controls
higher res screen
aluminum finish

unit slides into external control surface with large wheel for fine control with 2 stereo outs and headphone monitor.

or maybe it'll just be the triumphant return of the eMate (2003)

-sneakerpimp
* beware of electronic voting machines=death of democracy

greenstork
Nov 19, 2003, 10:26 AM
Originally posted by gwuMACaddict
sounds a little pricey for a newton to me... maybe a headless g4. this is a pretty wierd price point for apple. nothing really in this range to compare it with

I'm sure you didn't intend your post to be funny, but t made me chuckle. The fact that there's nothing in that price range is a problem for Apple

pkkrusty
Nov 19, 2003, 10:30 AM
Bring back the pizza box! I want an LCIII box over a 1 Ghz G4 with 1 Gig RAM. That would be sweet as hell.

It's like souping up 60s cars, except now we're tinkering under the hood of old computer enclosures. Wow, I'm a nerd.

http://www.duke.edu/~akl4/lciii.jpg

dongmin
Nov 19, 2003, 10:35 AM
ipod -- $750 is too out there; can't think of any features that would make it worthwhile unless it came with a biggish color screen and mpeg decoder/encoder card

display -- $750 is a weird price point: Apple already has a $700 17-inch display. Even if it's wide screen, why would they increase the price when other LCDs are getting way cheaper? Maybe it's a new 19-incher. Could the 20-incher come down in price that much, from $1300? Seems too much, but with the introduction of the 20-inch iMac, it's possible.

cube 2 -- I say no because Apple would make a big deal of a brand new product launch like this. Also doubt it based on the fact that this little computer would KILL Apple's margins. Sure they'd sell more computers overall but I don't think it'd be enough to offset the smaller number of eMacs, iMacs, and G5s they'd move.

And for all those expecting the world in a $750 package, don't get your hopes up. At best, I think it'll be equivalent to the eMac in features/expandability, something like a 1 ghz G4 with a combo drive. And there is no point in comparing Apple to cheapie PCs b/c Apple is NOT in the same market. If it indeed turns out to be a cube, I think the industrial design and Panther alone makes it a better choice than the eMachine.

what else? -- personally I like the idea of some sort of home entertainment console (dvd + iphoto + itunes) but this idea has been floating around for a while now without much traction, so I toss it aside as a fantasy.

Another possibility given the music-oriented marketing after Thanksgiving is an ipod accessories package: 40gb ipod, inMotion, iTrip + car charger, iTMS gift certificate, the Belkin media reader, and voice recorder -- worth $900 separately, together for $750.

jayscheuerle
Nov 19, 2003, 10:49 AM
Originally posted by dongmin
At best, I think it'll be equivalent to the eMac in features/expandability, something like a 1 ghz G4 with a combo drive.

Works for me! :D

SiliconAddict
Nov 19, 2003, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by ITR 81

As for a 1GHz vz a 2GHz intel or amd brand..well when my friend compared his Dell 2GHz to my 1GHz he lost out on all fronts except for the gaming area. He actually was going to buy a Apple until he saw the Dell for cheaper price and thought it would perform better since it had double the clock-cycle..but he even said apparently that wasn't true.

Ahh there's the problem. Dell is 100% an Intel whore. The Athlon can run rings around Intel's P4.

ddbean
Nov 19, 2003, 11:01 AM
How about a tivo like device with A/P card to bridge computer/network to TV/sound systems?

Jookbox
Nov 19, 2003, 11:14 AM
calm down everyone. it's just a 60 gig ipod.

shake
Nov 19, 2003, 11:15 AM
if they made a new g4 cube that had the possibility of running dual cpu's, then they have my $749.
maybe a pci slot? might be too much to ask.

mrsebastian
Nov 19, 2003, 11:31 AM
it wouldn't surprise me to see display updates for the entire line. it's about time they matched the g5 and i'd say the lineup will be 17" ($500), 20" ($750), 23" ($1100), and a monster 30" screen for $2000.

Dippo
Nov 19, 2003, 11:33 AM
Let me tell you what this thing is NOT

This will not be any type of Media Center PC. If you really think about what Jobs said about the Media PC's, it make sense and Apple isn't going to make them!

This will not be any type of PDA. It's becoming very clear that Cell phones are taking the place of PDA's and Jobs know this so this won't happen.

This will not be any type of Video Player iPod. Many reasons this won't happen any time soon.

This leaves only an updated iPod, new G4 mac, a new device we know nothing about, or some other updated product (like an LCD).

scat999999
Nov 19, 2003, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by Dippo


This leaves only an updated iPod, new G4 mac, a new device we know nothing about, or some other updated product (like an LCD).

sethypoo
Nov 19, 2003, 11:43 AM
Was the Newton I over $700? How could the Newton II be $749 (if there ever is one)?

wordmunger
Nov 19, 2003, 12:17 PM
Okay, here's my idea: combine iPod, Tivo, and a stereo amp all into one $749 package, just in time for christmas. This would basically replace your entire home theater system, except for the monitor and speakers. AAC support means you could store all your ITMS purchases there. Perhaps this thing would even launch with a new Apple Movie Download service--download movie rentals direct to your TIVO Pod. Of course Airport Extreme would be supported for fast syncing with all your Macs--or broadcast movies and music to any computer (or any TIVO Pod) in the house. You could even use it to show iPhoto slide shows and iMovies. The technology is already all there--TIVO itself supports most of this--but it would take Apple to make it all work together seamlessly.

kdog
Nov 19, 2003, 12:17 PM
You can buy a good 17" lcd monitor for around $750 US. The 17" iMac sells for about $1500 US; take away the monitor and you're left with about $750 for the bottom half of the iMac. This would be a very wise move for Apple since many users with existing ddisplays would be likely to upgrade or to try switching from the PC side. Anyone with a G3 tower would prob consider the headless iMac to go with their existing monitor... that's a lot of machine for $750

k

cornboy
Nov 19, 2003, 12:28 PM
I've got it! It's a ........
toolkit for dismounting the 20" monitor and bolting it to your wall.

jayscheuerle
Nov 19, 2003, 12:30 PM
Originally posted by kdog
Anyone with a G3 tower would prob consider the headless iMac to go with their existing monitor... that's a lot of machine for $750

k

My beige box sweats and works 5% faster when I mention that...

Bottom end headless (eMac with a crew cut) shouldn't be higher than $699, preferably :) less...

TomSmithMacEd
Nov 19, 2003, 12:39 PM
Does anyone remember the eMate? That would be sooo nice if they came out with with a low low version of the iBook. Just like the eMate. Where it isn't really a full laptop it is more of a pda in a laptop form. Put panther on it with a 700mhz g4, 256mb, 10gb, some old radeon, one usb, one firewire, and a headphone port. OHh that would be perfect for taking notes in school! Come home, connect it to my eMac. *drool*

illumin8
Nov 19, 2003, 12:59 PM
Originally posted by amichalo
So, my conjecture is that it is some sort of "jukebox" music server device for the home:
* standard AC plug for continuous power
* wifi/either connections to home network
* RCA/fiber preamp to home theater systems
* perhaps direct speaker connections for standalone tunes (think dorm room)
* larger capacity HDs avaialable for fewer dollars b/c size/weight is less of an issue
* new iTunes to allow this device to manage all music and select a subset of music to sync to other mobile devices (iPod, PowerBook, etc)

I'd shell out $750 in a heartbeat for that - maybe even more.
That is an awesome idea. It would be great to be able to use iTunes music sharing over the LAN to stream to your home stereo, but I think $750 is way to much for such a device. My Xbox does this right now and it only cost $180. Also, there are a lot of wireless MP3 clients now being made by Linksys and such that are only $150. Apple would need a better price point, especially considering this device would be solid state with no moving parts (no internal hard drive, just a ROM chip and it gets all of it's music off the net). But could you imagine how cool it would be to have a fully functional iTunes running on your TV/Home entertainment center with a remote control so you could purchase songs right from your couch and they would download to your music library on your PC? Also, internet streaming radio would rock as well. It _might_ be worth $750 if it had a fully functional version of iTunes in it, but that is still way too expensive. Also, I'm not a cheapskate as I happily forked out $536 or so the day the 30GB iPods were released to get my hands on one.

contempt
Nov 19, 2003, 01:31 PM
With all of the PC companies developing smaller computers, it would make perfect sense for Cube 2.0. I would definitely buy one even though I don't need it. That's the cool part. And they should just dump the emac.

wHo_tHe
Nov 19, 2003, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by sethypoo
Was the Newton I over $700? How could the Newton II be $749 (if there ever is one)? The final Newton MessagePads, the 2000 and 2100, retailed for $1,000 when they debuted.

Ridiculously overpriced? Yes. Having said that, I still use my 2100 every day, so the $1,000 has more than paid off... :)

dhns
Nov 19, 2003, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by deep square leg
A PDA perhaps? Newton II!

(I have no idea what things cost in $US, I might be right off the mark.)

In January, IBM announced a PDA blueprint based on the PowerPC 405LP chip to be available later this year. See e.g.

http://www-3.ibm.com/chips/news/2003/0121_pda.html http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9222005703.html

As it is a PowerPC it should allow for MacOS compatibility...

As there has been no further public information since summer (try to google for "405LP") it might be a speculation that Apple has dealt with IBM about this chip together with the G5.

And as PDAs with WLAN (Airport) on board are already coming from HP iPAQ, Toshiba and others for approx. 500-700$ it might be in the right price range.

On the other side, Steve has stated since years that they will not bring out a PDA - because everything is going Smartphone. And for a Smartphone, Apple can't compete with the Nokias on this world. And therefore, they are focussing on mobile music (iPod) and mobile phone synchronization (Bluetooth + iSync).

So *it might be a PDA* but chances are low, sigh...

Let's see in January.

ryaxnb
Nov 19, 2003, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by pkradd
There's not going to be a cube. It was a failure, both techinically and sales wise. People didn't like it (except Mac fans). You don't go backwards, you go forwards. There is already an "entry level" computer from Apple, it's called an eMac. $749 is a guess.... a rumor. As this site has said, there's no specific information. Every time Apple comes out with some new product there are always rumors of "something else" that never happen. Remember the "tablet"? All the descriptions about size (7 X 9), pricing, etc.? Where art thou?
Go forward, then.http://www.rhumgod.com/images/xstation1.jpg $699. Mockup by an AppleInsider visitor.

ryaxnb
Nov 19, 2003, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by gwuMACaddict
sounds a little pricey for a newton to me... maybe a headless g4. this is a pretty wierd price point for apple. nothing really in this range to compare it with Yeah. The Newton used to sell for $699 or so, but price drops have made me "guessimate" that it would cost $399-549.

ryaxnb
Nov 19, 2003, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by roy_dan
I don't know if Apple would market a headless G4 at that price point. It could hurt iMac sales. I know I would rather buy a separate G4 Cube "or whatever" and 20" LCD for about $2048. Then I could keep the monitor when it's time to upgrade to the G5. These LCD's are becoming quite then investment. If you are going to lure PC users then don't forget how they've been programmed to think......upgradability!
Why is that people are paranoid about the iMac losing sales? If the xStation (see above) go's up then it will balance out.

n00bieriffic
Nov 19, 2003, 02:42 PM
It's a cell phone.

It has some PDAish funcationality with respect to Contacts/Calendar/Email. It does have a color display and a fixed antenna. It is a GSM multiband phone and will take sim cards for those of you that travel. It is NOT a newton or eMate and will not run osx, it has it's own os. You will get a discount if you signup for service at the same time you purchase the phone. Apple will not sell this direct through their site with any discounts, you must go through a retailer for that (signup discount). And with all that, it's not a new topic. ASCs were to apple was developing a cell phone well over a year ago (right before they decided ASCs were too close to the public to trust with "secret" new information).

BTW, Most ASCs only knew about the G5 updates and the 20" iMacs on monday. Please don't ask an ASC to tell you about all the new stuff coming out, they might really not know.

Fukui
Nov 19, 2003, 03:07 PM
Originally posted by pkradd
There's not going to be a cube. It was a failure, both techinically and sales wise. People didn't like it (except Mac fans). You don't go backwards, you go forwards.
Wrong on all counts.
I wasn't a mac user until I got my cube.
To me, as a PC user, that thing was like somethng out of the future.
Still is.

And technically, again, it was amaizing.

The only thing bad about it was the price.
999 or below would have been perfect.

jayscheuerle
Nov 19, 2003, 03:07 PM
Originally posted by n00bieriffic
It's a cell phone.

Well, that would be Apple's style. Ignore the gaping hole in their line-up to introduce a gee-whiz product that gets lost in the crowd. Or, update a product with something that nobody was clamoring for (23" iMac?).

Apple does have a nice OS and they do make gorgeous machines.

But their manufacturing quality and corporate decision making process have had an erratic record at best. Their saving graces are Jonathan Ive and their marketing department.

dongmin
Nov 19, 2003, 03:14 PM
A Macrumors thread wouldn't be complete without a mention of an iTablet. $750 seems about right, doesn't it? Maybe the rumor sources are mistaking the flat form factor of a tablet for an LCD.

Fukui
Nov 19, 2003, 03:15 PM
Originally posted by DrGruv1
second the call for an Ebook

g4
10" screen
no optical drive
airport

If this could hit the magical $600 price point...
Ooohh, gimmie gimme!!

uberman42
Nov 19, 2003, 03:32 PM
Yeah- I think that they will need to separate the LCD from the body. I still hear the comments of people that have pigeon-holed the company as being expensive computers for graphic artists (i dunno why this is the case since macs are at schools and non-creative arts small businesses). I think there would be mind share shift if they

Maybe this is just not the market apple is targeting. Apple is focused on being high style with value features that cognizant people can relate to.

I am all for single G5 1.6 in a lucite white cube with 64MB ATI w/ ADC out, 256MB RAM, gig ethernet,airport,bluetooth @ $899.

Were is the pricing sweet spot between being a commodity PC manufacturer and a niche/specialty player?

itsbetteronamac
Nov 19, 2003, 03:34 PM
I money would be on a ebook, just because I think apple wants to stat prodominante in the education market, which is being taken over by dell. I 17"inch widescreen monitor would be another good guess.

I might guess a video ipod, which would actually make some sense. This is becuase it's the holidays and this might just fall in with the big apple store music event. I would never pay$749 for a video ipod. I want a new 20gb ipod for x-mas this year.

mac-lad
Nov 19, 2003, 03:44 PM
How about a headless 1.0 GHz iMac?
That'd be easy enough.

amichalo
Nov 19, 2003, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by SiliconAddict
$799.00
1GHz PowerPC G4
128MB SDRAM
40GB Ultra ATA drive
Combo drive

$719.99
www.e4me.com
-2Ghz AMD Athlon XP 2800 (Mhz myth aside this is a speedy CPU.)
-512 MB DDR
-160 GB HDD
-DVD +/- RW Drive (Write Max: 4x DVD+/-R, 2.4x DVD+RW, 2x DVD-RW, 16x CD-R and 10x CD-RW disks

Now you add a decent flat panel display or even a CRT for $150-$200 ...[/B]

Okay, so you compared a $800 eMac to a $870-920 PC - a 9-15% more expensive system.

Further, you did not include anything about SOFTWARE - what good is a PC without it? Does your more expensive clone include XP? anything else? How does the software package compare to Panther, Appleworks, Quicken 2004, and the other goodies that come bundled with an Apple? (speaking from my iMac experience - don't know about the eMac)

the_mole1314
Nov 19, 2003, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by itsbetteronamac
I money would be on a ebook, just because I think apple wants to stat prodominante in the education market, which is being taken over by dell.

Read the papers dude, Apple is selling tons of iBooks to districts. I'm using one right now.

jayscheuerle
Nov 19, 2003, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by uberman42
Were is the pricing sweet spot between being a commodity PC manufacturer and a niche/specialty player?

What makes Apple a niche/specialty player?

Low marketshare? You do need that to be considered a niche.

Focus on machine & software design? You could argue that Sony's doing a nice job with hardware. There are some other PC manufacturers that make laptops with panache.

High prices? That will make you a niche/specialty player regardless of your product.

There's no reason at all a commodity PC can't have all the aesthetics of a contemporary Mac with little suffering on build quality. For example, look at Michael Graves' line at Target. He makes gorgeous stuff. He also makes great stuff for Alessi which sell for 3-5 times the price. Of all the reasons that Apple is a niche player, the biggest one is their pricing points. Think of all the PC users who would love to give Apple a try if they'd be even marginally competitive on the lower end.

Years ago, people loved Apple for the look and feel, the great nature of the OS, the down-to-earth hipness of its subculture. You payed more, but were part of a group of computer users that seemed kinder, more creative, just better hearted.

Now Apple's ranks are swollen with arrogance and elitism, showing pride in the fact that they were willing (and able) to spend a couple of thousand on a system which they would only challenge in their dreams, chiding others who demand more and denouncing as whiners those who won't settle for less.

It's a shame, because Apple could be so much more.

SiliconAddict
Nov 19, 2003, 04:43 PM
Originally posted by amichalo
Okay, so you compared a $800 eMac to a $870-920 PC - a 9-15% more expensive system.

Further, you did not include anything about SOFTWARE - what good is a PC without it? Does your more expensive clone include XP? anything else? How does the software package compare to Panther, Appleworks, Quicken 2004, and the other goodies that come bundled with an Apple? (speaking from my iMac experience - don't know about the eMac)

At 9-15% more with twice the specs. Don't make excuses. And it comes with: Works 7.0 (Which is basicly Word 2002 with a slimed down ver of Excel.), Microsoft Money 2004, Encarta Online, Power DVD, Norton AntiVirus 2003.

All I'm saying as a basic machine you still get more of a system for as much as an EMac and I didn't even bother with bottem of the barrel from emachines....

$449.99
-$50 mail in rebate.
So when its all said and done: $399

IntelŪ CeleronŪ 2.50 GHz Processor
256 MB DDR
40 GB HDD
48x Max. CD-RW Drive
and for software: Works 6.0, Money 2002, Encarta Online, Norton AntiVirus 2003.

Add a $50 (IBM makes $50 monitors) - $150 monitor and you still have a functional system that can do audio, mail, surfing at a price that is less then the cheapest Mac.

If Apple wants to focus on the upper crust of computer users that's fine but I would point them at the Palm Zire and how well its selling at a $99 price point. See Palm has discovered something Apple has not. That there is a large market for those users that want the basics. And for those that want said basics cheap is good even if you have to deal with a lower quality system.

supertex
Nov 19, 2003, 04:43 PM
I completely agree with jay, Apple's marketing/advertising group has done an amazing job creating a desire for the whole Apple/Macintosh experience, but it seems to me whoever is in charge of pricing keeps cutting their legs out from under them. People want macs, but fifteen minutes on one in an Apple store won't give the average customer the understanding that the overall computing experience for these machines is really worth as much as Apple claims it is. Only regular use can really establish that. The best thing Apple can do if they really do want to increase market share is to actually let people have their machines. Pop a crippled G5 into a cute little box with limited upgradability and modest capabilities, price it between $700-$900 and give them a sweet bundle deal on a monitor in case they don't already have one. Then, in three years, when somebody starts making software they can't run, they'll understand why macs cost more and they'll want to pay for an excellent one.

Just the ideas of a poor college student who wants to replace his 500MHZ G3 DinoBook...

EDIT: That Xstation is EXACTLY what I'm talking about, Kudos to whoever put that together.

Flowbee
Nov 19, 2003, 04:44 PM
Originally posted by jayscheuerle

Years ago, people loved Apple for the look and feel, the great nature of the OS, the down-to-earth hipness of its subculture. You payed more, but were part of a group of computer users that seemed kinder, more creative, just better hearted.

Now Apple's ranks are swollen with arrogance and elitism, showing pride in the fact that they were willing (and able) to spend a couple of thousand on a system which they would only challenge in their dreams, chiding others who demand more and denouncing as whiners those who won't settle for less.

It's a shame, because Apple could be so much more.

I believe the vast majority of Mac users still fall into your "years ago" description. You seem to be confusing members of this site (and other Mac sites) with Mac users in general. I don't think that people who spend their days posting to Mac rumor sites are in any way representative of Mac users at large.

manitoubalck
Nov 19, 2003, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by jayscheuerle
A $749 iBox would send their stock through the roof...

That's what I would like to see, lets say,
1: case with 2 or 3 optical bays
1: motherboard with 3 PCI 33MHz slots, 2 PCI-X slots
1: 8x agp
1: one or two G4 1.25/1.4

optional extras,
RAM
HDD,
Optical Drive
Graphics Card

the future
Nov 19, 2003, 05:06 PM
Originally posted by ryaxnb
Go forward, then.http://www.rhumgod.com/images/xstation1.jpg $699. Mockup by an AppleInsider visitor.

Very nice...

Disko
Nov 19, 2003, 05:12 PM
I still think it needs usb, firewire, and a headphone jack on the front:

http://disko.d2.net.au/xstation2.jpg

ryaxnb
Nov 19, 2003, 05:29 PM
Originally posted by Disko
I still think it needs usb, firewire, and a headphone jack on the front:
snip

Probably even better!:)

blvdeast
Nov 19, 2003, 05:30 PM
Guess this is my debut for the forum. I am a PC user for over 6 years, am only 17 now. I hate it. It crashes, I want to study communications/production and am very limited with my PC.

For over a year and a half I have been visiting the apple website, several rumor sites, mac news, man fan sites and from what I read I loved it. I then went to a CompUSA near my town to test it out and I learned how to use it, change preferences and use the iLife programs faster then I learned how to work the Windows taskbar. I was conviced.

The only thing that has been holding me back is the price tag. My current PC (2 1/2 years old) is a 1Ghz, 60G HD, 128mb RAM, two drives (CDRW/DVD). That cost me $750 and it included a 3 year extended warrenty which I have the number memorized because I used it so often. Right now my machine is pretty outdated, but this was over two years ago.

Now I compare my current PC with the options that Apple gives me. Price/Feature wise PC wins. The best I can do is a high-end eMac. I have been saving up and hope to have enough money by early next year.

So to offer the PC user's point of view, the only thing holding me back is cash.

If the eMac was cheaper, or if Apple had a lower-end model I would have converted a while ago.

And one more thing, one thing that scares me is the customer support, only 90 days , or else I have to pay $100+ for extended coverage. I still don't feel confortable with that but my mind is set and I will be going Mac when I have the cash.

h'biki
Nov 19, 2003, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by pkradd
There's not going to be a cube. It was a failure, both techinically and sales wise. People didn't like it (except Mac fans).

That's wrong. People *loved* it. They just didn't think it had a good price/performance ratio.

And the people that especially loved it weren't the mac heads, but the PC heads.

Cube style miniATX cases are *the* hot item amongst PC users!

(Well, one of the hot items)

SuperChuck
Nov 19, 2003, 06:49 PM
Apple is a luxury brand. It is the computing equivalent of a pair of Prada shoes or a BMW convertible. It has style, reliability, comfort and exclusivity. I don't know if Prada has a rumors site, but if they did, I doubt it would be clogged with people saying "Hey, I got some shoes at Pic-and-Pay for 15 bucks...what's the deal with your prices?"

Would more people buy Apple's if they were as cheap as Windows-ridden boxes? Of course. But Apple won't do that because it would destroy their brand, which is the most valuable asset it has. 3% market share is nothing to crow about. Limited software selection is not a selling point. Being regarded as one of the most stylish, innovative, high-end computer companies in the world is their saving grace.

I can't afford a new Mac. I have to save a LOT of cash to get the one I want. And that's fine by me - I'm getting what I pay for, and it will EASILY be worth the extra thousand dollars to never have to scream at a clunky, junky, poorly-designed Windows OS.

As far as a new $750 product? My money's on a souped-up iPod. A luxury item if there ever was one.

rdowns
Nov 19, 2003, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by yoman
If $749 is truly the price point, and there truly is a product that will come with that price point. I wonder how long we will have to wait to find out what it is. As said in the article no time frame has been noted.

:cool:

And just what will Apple offer those who need a monitor to go with their $749 box? A$699 17"?

Knowing Jobs, some overpriced stylish 15" CRT would be announced in conjunction to make up for lost margin dollars.

jayscheuerle
Nov 19, 2003, 08:20 PM
Originally posted by SuperChuck
Apple is a luxury brand. It is the computing equivalent of a pair of Prada shoes or a BMW convertible. It has style, reliability, comfort and exclusivity. I don't know if Prada has a rumors site, but if they did, I doubt it would be clogged with people saying "Hey, I got some shoes at Pic-and-Pay for 15 bucks...what's the deal with your prices?"

Would more people buy Apple's if they were as cheap as Windows-ridden boxes? Of course. But Apple won't do that because it would destroy their brand, which is the most valuable asset it has. 3% market share is nothing to crow about. Limited software selection is not a selling point. Being regarded as one of the most stylish, innovative, high-end computer companies in the world is their saving grace.


As much as MacFans hate to admit it, Apple has seldom been the equivalent of BMW except in terms of price. The equivalent would more likely be a Bentley for how far above the others they were AND because the price was inflated, not because of the performance, BMWs have that, but because of the industrial design coupled with a cutting edge OS. If you want to pay a ton of money for something that looks great, but gets you to the ACME as fast as an Oldsmobile, Mac has always been the computer of choice. Don't even bring up the G5, because people have been using that crappy BMW analogy for as long as middle of the road P4's were beating our socks off. Unless industrial design is your end all, Apple hasn't had a leg to stand on compared to modern day PCs that come in at 75% of their price point. 10.2.8 was bad. 10.3 was bad. The 15" Powerbooks have white spots. When you buy a Bentley, you can bet that hopping in and turning the key wont shove the tailpipe up your arse. Apple's greatness is built to a large degree on myth and readily accepting the SJRDF Kool-Aid.

Stylishness does not cost a lot of money. It requires a certain degree of luck in hiring the right designers at the right time. Whoever hired Ives had a LOT of foresight. Hardware-wise, Apple has hardly been innovative lately, except for the iPod, which is fighting off the bandwagon as we speak. If high end means costing a lot of money, then they're spot on, but don't kid yourself if you think your $2,500 Mac is twice as good as a $1,250 Wintel box. It just looks better and runs OSX.

Running OSX has been enough reason for me to hang onto my aging beige box while I wait to be able to buy an affordable replacement (eMac is NOT an option).

If you don't think that Jonathan Ives would love to see his designs in more people's hands, as Michael Graves has accomplished, then you're not a designer.

MrMacMan
Nov 19, 2003, 08:22 PM
Cube!

Cube!

Bring Back the Cube!

Come on guys.

A Sub-100 --> Education Only (the Real eMac)

Make it like the eCube (Education Cube)

Revamp with latest firewire and such.

Stick a G4 in it.

Letsss GOOOO!

:D

Borg3of5
Nov 19, 2003, 08:42 PM
Totally unknown what Apple might be planning for this. A PDA would be very interesting; although I don't understand why folks would be rooting for a video player. And, a 60GB iPod?! C'mon! I have yet to fill a quarter of my 10 GB iPod, and I already have upwards of 500 songs. Can you actually listen to 60 gigs worth of music in 1 sitting? The battery doesn't even last that long. Get serious. What would really rock is a widescreen 19" display for $999. Too close for a 20" and 23" display, although of course the 23" display IS HD compatible, but only about 10 stations per city are offered in HD. Save some money for a plasma!

SuperChuck
Nov 19, 2003, 08:43 PM
Originally posted by jayscheuerle
As much as MacFans hate to admit it, Apple has seldom been the equivalent of BMW except in terms of price.

I beg to differ.

If top speed is the ruler by which you judge a product, BMW is not the tops in cars, nor is Apple the tops in computers.

What I was saying was that Apple is a luxury brand, and luxury is rarely, if ever, about "speed." It is about comfort, beauty, style and function. No PeeCee has ever been as stylishly designed as its Apple equivalent. No Windows OS has ever held a candle to the competing Mac OS of the day. When Apple says "legendary ease of use," they aren't pulling it out of nowhere. The Mac OS has always been simpler, friendlier, more attractive and more straightforward.

Luxury is a diamond necklace, a bottle of 100 year old Scotch...not a drag racer.

leet1
Nov 19, 2003, 08:59 PM
Dang, I hate when people compare Macs to nice cars, seriously, a mac is NOT as great as yall put it off to be.

1. Not a symbol of anything, just a computer thats on your desk or in your lap.

2. There is better out there

3. like its been stated, more $ on a mac doesn't mean its better

4. There are better PC cases out there than the looks of the Mac, just not from Dell , :rolleyes:

and if your going to compare it to a car and try to make a point about luxury, at least use a good car like Lexus or Infinity, because a BMW is about as reliable as that Dodge Neon you see driving down the road.



whew....had to get that out.

DakotaGuy
Nov 19, 2003, 09:49 PM
I am suprised with the number of people that want the all-in-one form factor to go away and be replaced with a box or headless iMac. I understand that the computer can be replaced and you can keep the monitor, but what about people who do like something with style. I have a friend with a new 17" iMac and I have another friend with a black plastic PC tower with a white CRT monitor, wires hanging all over the place...I think it looks like crap! Sure he did not have to buy a monitor, but nothing matches. The iMac looks nice and actually is something you can be proud to display in your living room to your guests. The Mac All-In-Ones have always been very popular and I am suprised everyone wants this nice simple solution taken out of the line-up.

If you want a headless mac, they have them, G5 towers. If you want something cheaper with a G4, they have those too, G4 1.25 single or dual towers. Drop the price a little on the G4 tower and there is your headless Mac. Besides if you replace your computer every 4 years or so, about the life of the iMac/eMac, you would probably want a new monitor anyhow, something that goes with the computer. Everyone complains about the current Apple monitors because they look like a G4 and not a G5, so who would really want to use a mismatched monitor and feel proud about it? Even my old blueberry iMac DV looks clean and is not clutter all over and I might be the only one, but I like that.

SuperChuck
Nov 19, 2003, 09:53 PM
I have figured out what this $750 mystery product is...

Due to the runaway success of its iTunes for Windows, Apple has created yet another product for the Windows market: the iScream keyboard.

Using the latest in voice recognition software and a built in microphone, the iScream keyboard interprets the precise meaning of the guttural moans and rage-filled outbursts directed at the Windows machine and responds appropriately.

Although most sounds will issue the control-alt-delete command, those that sound surprised at the current problem will elicit other commands, such as instantly downloading the latest virus patches.

Sounds of loading a revolver or fashioning a noose out of ethernet cable will send a command to instantly show detailed instructions on how to network two PeeCees together.

As with many of Apple's products, some will say that $750 is a lot to pay for a keyboard, and they'll follow this remark with a comment about how Windows machines are just as good.

Yes. Of course they are. Until you try to use them.

Snlhobo
Nov 19, 2003, 10:10 PM
You guys are really heated about the whole car thing, its all good.
Apple has done really good things since Steve came back, I think its fair to say that it has only been up for apple since he came back.

Most of the time apple pulls out something that we aren't usually expecting, and it usually turns out to be a good thing. I trust apple to do the right thing. I will admit, however, that there is huge whole in their low end. Like someone said before, PC users are trained for cost to be their number one buying guide. If apple is to increase their market share, they need a ultra low end mac.

By the by, i was looking on the apple education site tonight, and they were selling emacs for $599 if you buy them in bulk. Maybe they are trying to get rid of them because they are being replaced or upgraded? just a thought.

Sherman
Nov 19, 2003, 10:17 PM
The Sub-$1000 device is the older 900Mhz iBook G3. If you scroll down lower on the apple store page, you'll notice that it sells for $999 along with the 800Mhz iBook for $899.

Those are some pretty sweet prices.

MacQuest
Nov 19, 2003, 11:26 PM
Originally posted by pkradd ...there are always rumors of "something else" that never happen. Remember the "tablet"? All the descriptions about size (7 X 9), pricing, etc.? Where art thou? [/B]

Apparently it will be here soon.

This will be the "iPad/iTablet/Newton II:rolleyes: " whatever device. Primarily playback and connectivity functionality that will COMPLIMENT your home/school/work computer...NOT replace it.

It'll probably have the capability to store your "home" folder so that you can access it on any Mac you're on wherever you are.

Depending on how well it does, they'll come out with the "PowerPad/PowerTablet/PowerNewton II :rolleyes:" for the business and college student market. I'm guessing $1049ish.

It'll be either this or the color display video iPod.

It's gonna be a great X-MAS!!:D

Gymnut
Nov 20, 2003, 12:30 AM
Wouldn't mind seeing a rebirth of the Newton. Palm has finally narrowed the gap between it and PocketPC. Sony is currently where Apple would've been had they stayed in the PDA market.

Squire
Nov 20, 2003, 12:45 AM
Originally posted by Abercrombieboy
I am suprised with the number of people that want the all-in-one form factor to go away and be replaced with a box or headless iMac. I understand that the computer can be replaced and you can keep the monitor, but what about people who do like something with style. I have a friend with a new 17" iMac and I have another friend with a black plastic PC tower with a white CRT monitor, wires hanging all over the place...I think it looks like crap! Sure he did not have to buy a monitor, but nothing matches. The iMac looks nice and actually is something you can be proud to display in your living room to your guests. The Mac All-In-Ones have always been very popular and I am suprised everyone wants this nice simple solution taken out of the line-up.

If you want a headless mac, they have them, G5 towers. If you want something cheaper with a G4, they have those too, G4 1.25 single or dual towers. Drop the price a little on the G4 tower and there is your headless Mac. Besides if you replace your computer every 4 years or so, about the life of the iMac/eMac, you would probably want a new monitor anyhow, something that goes with the computer. Everyone complains about the current Apple monitors because they look like a G4 and not a G5, so who would really want to use a mismatched monitor and feel proud about it? Even my old blueberry iMac DV looks clean and is not clutter all over and I might be the only one, but I like that.

Do you remember the iMac ad that showed the back of a PC? It had a ton of wires going all over the place. Traffic sound effects were playing in the background. Then, the camera panned over to the back of an iMac (CRT model) with just a couple of wires protruding and the sound of birds chirping in the background.

That's one of the reasons I switched.

Squire

ipiloot
Nov 20, 2003, 12:50 AM
Originally posted by Abercrombieboy
I am suprised with the number of people that want the all-in-one form factor to go away and be replaced with a box or headless iMac.

Who told you that the all-in-one design shall go away? All the people wan't is another option in lower price point. That's it. All-in-one options shall stay where they are except that they shall be updated asap.

Squire
Nov 20, 2003, 01:01 AM
The whole idea of a video iPod really amazes me. I can't imagine watching a movie on a screen that small. Besides, wouldn't that encourage video piracy? Real question: How do you get a movie on your hard drive legally? Is it possible? This won't come out until the QuickTime Movie Store becomes a reality.

I think it's unfortunate that Apple hasn't jumped (back) into the PDA market. Jobs has been quite vocal about his PDA stance, though.

Something to send iTunes tracks to your stereo? Sure. That would be nice.

I would love to see a 10" notebook. I've said it a million times and I'll say it again: Apple is losing out here. I think a lot of people are buying Vaios and Fujitsus over iBooks and 12" PBs because they're even smaller. Full-featured is great but some people wouldn't mind carrying an optical drive around.

Unfortunately, the new "mystery" product will be nothing more than a 17" widescreen monitor.

I'm not always right, though. ;)

Squire

supertex
Nov 20, 2003, 04:14 AM
You people who talk about macs being a luxury item need to get real. Yes, Macintosh computers are a superior product. Yes, their design and aesthetic qualities outpace most other systems. No, a cheap Mac won't negate either of these things. In fact, it will give you a new class of computer owner to look down your nose at. You can have the PC owner at the bottom, the owner of the $749 mac just above them, and perched far above them can be you guys in all your overpriced glory. But the idea that most Windows computers are crappy because they're cheap, is ridiculous. They're crappy because they're Windows. An affordable Mac can still be a desirable and quality machine. If we're sticking with the car analogy, think the original Ford Mustang. It was marketed as a secretary's car; affordable, stylish, performance-oriented, and now a universally recognizable automobile. That was the original iMac, likely the best thing that has ever happened to Apple, thanks to Steve Jobs. That bold move is one that needs to be made again. A Mac for the masses revived Apple after near bankruptcy, and is exactly what is needed to finish Apple's current play for market share, and to spring them back to truly competitive status in the computing world.

ipiloot
Nov 20, 2003, 05:36 AM
1. 17" monitor is not a device. So, the questionable device is not a monitor
2. Anything that does something with music and costs $750 is for a very small niche. People get anything they want out of the devices they have right now. And whatever they buy extra costs far less than $750
3. Video iPod is nogo. Apple is not about testing completely new markets. They have never done it successfully. They always look where others have gone wrong and make it better. The only case where they tried to do something (almost) completely new was with Newton. And they failed.
4. market for 10" laptops is so small that Steve wouldn' bother with them
5. Steve has said clearly and loudly that Apple WILL NOT enter PDA market in any forseeable future

And last but not least. Apple is not a luxury item. They compete in overall computer market. And the more target groups they cover, the better they manage. Therefore I think that the headless mac with good features and small price (below $800) tag is the way to go. I really hope that they have realised it too.

true777
Nov 20, 2003, 05:46 AM
I think it'll be a new eMac with a new/updated form factor. The eMac has been around for a while, and the last "update" was simply a price reduction. 749 sounds just right for a 1.25Ghz G4 model, which will allow for faster iMacs and PBs to be announced in Jan.

Of course I'd *hope* for a 10" entry level iBook (or eBook), but that ain't gonna happen for sure.

el gringo
Nov 20, 2003, 06:20 AM
I agree 100% - but it could be a revised eMac...but I'm hoping for a headless/Cube - as everyone else ;)

Originally posted by ipiloot
1. 17" monitor is not a device. So, the questionable device is not a monitor
2. Anything that does something with music and costs $750 is for a very small niche. People get anything they want out of the devices they have right now. And whatever they buy extra costs far less than $750
3. Video iPod is nogo. Apple is not about testing completely new markets. They have never done it successfully. They always look where others have gone wrong and make it better. The only case where they tried to do something (almost) completely new was with Newton. And they failed.
4. market for 10" laptops is so small that Steve wouldn' bother with them
5. Steve has said clearly and loudly that Apple WILL NOT enter PDA market in any forseeable future

And last but not least. Apple is not a luxury item. They compete in overall computer market. And the more target groups they cover, the better they manage. Therefore I think that the headless mac with good features and small price (below $800) tag is the way to go. I really hope that they have realised it too.

b_riggs
Nov 20, 2003, 07:31 AM
I don't see how a new headless G4 would take any sales away from Power Macs. Also, minimal from iMacs. It would certainly compete with some with eMacs. But I would think it would be aimed primarily and switchers/new users. A 1.467 GHz processor is quite fast for what buyers of such a system would be using it for. And there is no need not to have a fan. Comparable PCs have fairly loud fans and they sell fine. I too think a redisigned cube would be great, but the real selling points will be price and Panther.

Unfortunately, there have been previous threads on various forums with many good reasons for Apple to do this. However, they have not and I doubt they will this time either. Personally I would like to see them making some new efforts to gain market share and a properly confugured headless G4 certainly seems like it would help accomplish this. There are an awful lot of PCs sold at the $585 - $750 price level and Apple seems to have concededthis part of the market.

iAlan
Nov 20, 2003, 07:47 AM
waiting waiting waiting ...

Are we sure it is music related? Will it coincide with the event on the 28th? It looks like the inventory number is in the inventory chain so it can't be far off.

New monitors would be great, but will not necessarily push Christmas sales. Who would buy a monitor just because they are cheaper, unless you were looking at replacing an existing monitor, and not many of do this with regularity. If you bought a new G5 and kept your old monitor, you might like to update to a newer more matching design - and it is strange that Apple didn't upgrade the monitors to match the new G5 casing, they will eventually, but maybe they are waiting for a drop in price for HiDef components or an increase in HiDef broadcasting.

That said, I am not on favour of a media center PC, but what about a media center period. A device that can be connected to a regular TV or to an Apple monitor (dual connection ability and a swith function) You can store a variety of media format on this with a large capacity HD for whatever you want - and you can use your Mac to sync whatever you want - your iTune library is on this, but iTunes mages evrything from your Mac, you can record TV like current similar systems and don't even need a Mac to manage this, but can transfer iMovie projects to show the family.

I guess i am rambling a little, too many beers after work, but to really acheive a digtal lifestye we need something more than a computer...even more than a Mac!

Sol
Nov 20, 2003, 10:20 AM
Originally posted by supertex
You can have the PC owner at the bottom, the owner of the $749 mac just above them, and perched far above them can be you guys in all your overpriced glory.

Would the guys on the top be using any PC or a G5 Powermac?

rdrr
Nov 20, 2003, 01:43 PM
Some portable devices that are already on the market, mostly in Japan... :rolleyes: But thanks to the internet even the americans can get the latest Japaneese gizmos...

http://www.dynamism.com/hvp20/ price $699


The only thing I can guarentee is, with all this speculation on what it is, there will be great disappointment if the new device is one of the following;

60 gb ipod
17" or 19" display
any other thing you want to stick here... :p


my .02 cents

Bregalad
Nov 20, 2003, 02:18 PM
Let me add my voice to the call for a low cost Mac that does NOT include a display. There are plenty of potential buyers out there who don't want an all-in-one. Right now their lowest cost option is the PowerMac G4 tower. $1299 is too much for an entry level machine. Buyers of home computers want something that is "good enough" and a $600 PC usually is. Oh sure they'll have problems with it, but with 95% of their friends running Windows there will always be someone around to help out.

The new iMac is an unbelievable product. Stick a beautiful 20" LCD display, something you'll want to keep for the next 10 years, onto a base that will be obsolete in two years. Does Apple think there are many people out there with that much more money than brains? They must :rolleyes:

I have a source who has actually seen an Apple tablet computer. Obviously it's just a prototype and may never be mass produced, but it exists.

mpopkin
Nov 20, 2003, 07:36 PM
Originally posted by CmdrLaForge
I don't belief that this is about the displays because it should be three products then and not sub $1000. Don't think that only the 17" display is updated and the others not.

Looking forward to a cube G4 1,25GHz.

Apple is going to release a PDA in the near future, they will also be phasing out the 23 inch Apple Cinema display in favor of a 30 Inch Cinema display(wow), they are either going to update the 17 inch display now or in january with platinum(g5) design. it is also possible that they will lower the price on the 20 inch cinema display which would be awesome(hint introducing the 20 inch imac means that it is cheaper to produce a 20 inch display).

mpopkin
Nov 20, 2003, 07:42 PM
Originally posted by iAlan
waiting waiting waiting ...

Are we sure it is music related? Will it coincide with the event on the 28th? It looks like the inventory number is in the inventory chain so it can't be far off.

New monitors would be great, but will not necessarily push Christmas sales. Who would buy a monitor just because they are cheaper, unless you were looking at replacing an existing monitor, and not many of do this with regularity. If you bought a new G5 and kept your old monitor, you might like to update to a newer more matching design - and it is strange that Apple didn't upgrade the monitors to match the new G5 casing, they will eventually, but maybe they are waiting for a drop in price for HiDef components or an increase in HiDef broadcasting.

That said, I am not on favour of a media center PC, but what about a media center period. A device that can be connected to a regular TV or to an Apple monitor (dual connection ability and a swith function) You can store a variety of media format on this with a large capacity HD for whatever you want - and you can use your Mac to sync whatever you want - your iTune library is on this, but iTunes mages evrything from your Mac, you can record TV like current similar systems and don't even need a Mac to manage this, but can transfer iMovie projects to show the family.

I guess i am rambling a little, too many beers after work, but to really acheive a digtal lifestye we need something more than a computer...even more than a Mac!


people who have a g5 and need a monitor like me for chance, i am borrowing a friends ghetto 15 inch crt and hope they release a new one!

Wender
Nov 20, 2003, 10:16 PM
I want a BigPod!

What's the problem with the iPods? It's not intended for home use - it's a 20th century Walkman, right? I can't fit all my music into a 40GB iPod - so I'm using a PowerBook on top of my home stereo - with all my music on an external 200GB hard drive connected to my iMac in another room. Works OK with iTunes sharing over AirPort. And I have all radio stations I want right there. That's also a no-go on the iPod. And don't get me started on the navigation. iPods are for running and travelling. You can't actually MANAGE your music library with it, right?

If there was a 120GB+ drive inside a small laptop with a small screen and iTunes running, that's all I need. Make it a MiniBook or a BigPod - small keyboard and AirPort. That's all. I could take all the music I own on a road trip, to my cabin, connect it to my car stereo, and also have it as a set-top box in my living room. Great!

h'biki
Nov 21, 2003, 12:48 AM
Originally posted by leet1

1. Not a symbol of anything, just a computer thats on your desk or in your lap.



In my experience, I beg to differ. Whenever I go to pitch my services to a potential client (either as a director or editor) and I whip out my TiBook to show them my reel, 99% of them say something like 'wow, you must be good if you have a machine like that'.

Once I've got them as a client and they come and see the editing suite they always comment on how great it looks (2x 17" Apple Displays + G4).

It makes the client feel like they're getting money well spent and are going to get a good, slick product rather than something whacked together by a wedding videographer !

For a lot of people macs *are* seen as a symbol of status and professionalism - especially when you're working in the media industry. If you've got a PC you're just another wannabe editor or graphic designer, if you've got a mac then you ARE an editor or graphic designer.

It sounds elitist -- but note I'm not saying that you are a better designer/whatever if you use a mac, just clients assume you are :)


2. There is better out there


Better in what regards?


3. like its been stated, more $ on a mac doesn't mean its better


It means Apple spends a lot of dough on R&D. THat's why they have such high margins cause they've gotta pay for their R&D. Like it or not, Apple has given the computer industry a serious kick up the ass since the return of Jobs.

And in a world where most Western companies aren't actually selling anything except their branding identity. At least Apple are actually selling their research!


4. There are better PC cases out there than the looks of the Mac, just not from Dell , :rolleyes:


Like? The alienware shlock boxes?

There are some neat japanese PC cases but they're very few and far between. There are some decent PC cases but they usually like a certain finesse. Most people can't be ****ed giving the extra 10% to give a product a real polish and that mentality is pretty common in the PC world.

If you know of some better looking PC cases than the G5, please send me links cause i've honestly been looking for some decent cases for a linux box. Haven't found any good ones yet!

leet1
Nov 21, 2003, 01:18 AM
Originally posted by h'biki
For a lot of people macs *are* seen as a symbol of status and professionalism - especially when you're working in the media industry. If you've got a PC you're just another wannabe editor or graphic designer, if you've got a mac then you ARE an editor or graphic designer.

It sounds elitist -- but note I'm not saying that you are a better designer/whatever if you use a mac, just clients assume you are :)



Hate to break it to you, but your totally wrong. My bros a video editor for a large company in Houston, Texas. He uses a PC and is not seen as a "wannabe" by clients. Infact, the last time I visited the place, I didn't see one mac.... :rolleyes: Their clients must just view them all as "wannabes" though, lol :rolleyes:

Better in what regards?
There are better out there is what Im guessing I meant by this in terms of performance/OS system. Macs are not top of the line.
<can't remember exactly and too late for me to read back through, lol>


Like? The alienware shlock boxes?

There are some neat japanese PC cases but they're very few and far between. There are some decent PC but they usually like a certain finesse. Most people can't be ****ed giving the extra 10% to give a product a real polish and that mentality is pretty common in the PC world.

If you know of some better looking PC cases than the G5, please send me links cause i've honestly been looking for some decent cases for a linux box. Haven't found any good ones yet!


Like the old Cube design?
Yup thats avaliable

Any shape,form, size you could think of, you could find for a PC.

sethypoo
Nov 21, 2003, 01:38 AM
Originally posted by h'biki

For a lot of people macs *are* seen as a symbol of status and professionalism - especially when you're working in the media industry. If you've got a PC you're just another wannabe editor or graphic designer, if you've got a mac then you ARE an editor or graphic designer.

It sounds elitist -- but note I'm not saying that you are a better designer/whatever if you use a mac, just clients assume you are :)





h'biki- I wholeheartedly agree with you. Macs do have that heightend degree of professionalism that people associate with high quality hardware.

If you're a true video editor, you use a Mac. Mac's get the computer out of the way so that your creative side can govern how your projects turn out, not how much patience you have with fixing your system.

sethypoo
Nov 21, 2003, 01:40 AM
Originally posted by leet1


Any shape,form, size you could think of, you could find for a PC.

Really now? Show me a shipping PC version of the iMac leet1.

And I'm not talking about an iMac system that some pc zealot ripped the insides out of. I'm talking about a iMac pc, if that's possible.

Find one.

I dare you.:rolleyes:

Golem
Nov 21, 2003, 02:04 AM
Originally posted by Abercrombieboy
I am suprised with the number of people that want the all-in-one form factor to go away and be replaced with a box or headless iMac. I understand that the computer can be replaced and you can keep the monitor, but what about people who do like something with style.
If you want a headless mac, they have them, G5 towers. If you want something cheaper with a G4, they have those too, G4 1.25 single or dual towers. Drop the price a little on the G4 tower and there is your headless Mac. Besides if you replace your computer every 4 years or so, about the life of the iMac/eMac, you would probably want a new monitor anyhow, something that goes with the computer. .

With all this talk of 20'' imacs I have looked into my numbers. 12 Macs in 17 years starting with a Brand spanking Mac II. 4! Monitors. Yes I have a 1.6 G5 for the power but it is huge, I cant fit it under my desk, I cant put it inside my desk, I cant put it on the floor unless I am prepared for an invasion of dust and sand. So its behind my monitor,I can barely reach it too put a cd in and it still does not match anything round it.

The posts in the Pro towers threads want more Bays,More expansion,more slots, I dont.
I want this years processor not last years,I dont need expansion slots, I need one hd and 1 CD/DVD/Superdrive.

What is wrong with the look of a nice Monitor,wireless keyboard and mouse and a single cable from the monitor that you cant see?

A 1.6 g5 Cube or even better a 2.4 G6 12 months from now when I can afford to replace the G5. Great! Bring it on.

leet1
Nov 21, 2003, 02:11 AM
Originally posted by sethypoo
Find one.

I dare you.:rolleyes:

http://www.referenceguide.com/reviews/gatewayprofile4.htm

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=pR0KrlEy1W8Kqm6Pbe8ApR49kWr4nuIRfV8=?CategoryName=cpu_VAIODesktopComputers_VSeries&ProductSKU=PCVV100GKIT1&Dept=cpu

Squire
Nov 21, 2003, 02:29 AM
Originally posted by ipiloot
1. 17" monitor is not a device. So, the questionable device is not a monitor

That depends on whose definition of device you're using. The term is very general. In fact, the only word that could be more so would be thing. Dictionary.com calls a device "A contrivance or an invention serving a particular purpose, especially a machine used to perform one or more relatively simple tasks."

Originally posted by ipiloot 4. market for 10" laptops is so small that Steve wouldn't bother with them


Why, then, are half a dozen other manufacturers making them? Companies spend millions on market research. Is there something you know that they don't? ;)
Originally posted by ipiloot 5. Steve has said clearly and loudly that Apple WILL NOT enter PDA market in any forseeable future

Yeah, he also thinks tablets are a dumb idea. I bet he also said that Apple would never release anything for Windows.

Originally posted by ipiloot And last but not least. Apple is not a luxury item. They compete in overall computer market. And the more target groups they cover, the better they manage. Therefore I think that the headless mac with good features and small price (below $800) tag is the way to go. I really hope that they have realised it too.

The two words most associated with the term luxury are unnecessary and expensive. My iMac, for instance, was both. Some might argue that all computers (not just Macs) are luxury items.

Please, be a little more open-minded before you label the ideas of others as stupid.

Squire

Winston Smith
Nov 21, 2003, 03:20 AM
Regardless of what I think this might be - I hope its a media server where I can connect my TV and stereo to my Mac, ideally wirelessly.
For me this will complete the digital hub and allow the computer agnostics in my family to enjoy the Mac without (they think!) using it.

escap0
Nov 21, 2003, 05:51 AM
I hate to cut it to you guys.. but it wont be a PDA. The reason is because the market is hashed... People arent shelling out money for PDAs the way they used to.. Apple wont risk entering a bear market.

Also, u 'cube' lovers out there. Forget it. The cube's sexy ferrarri like looks never sold enough before.. so Apple wont risk that again.

If you want to wish for something cool, then hope it is a souped up ipod. If u really want to stretch it, hope for a eBook.

But... In my opinion, it will probably be an eMac or a new cinema display.

Bah...

el gringo
Nov 21, 2003, 07:10 AM
even if the cube didn't succeed once it does not mean it will not succeed. we're hopefully talking about a cube with a different price tag than the original ;) say less than half price...

Originally posted by escap0

Also, u 'cube' lovers out there. Forget it. The cube's sexy ferrarri like looks never sold enough before.. so Apple wont risk that again.


Bah...

Sun Baked
Nov 21, 2003, 07:14 AM
So you've settled on a "device" and ruled out a 17" Widescreen LCD display.

bwintx
Nov 21, 2003, 07:40 AM
Originally posted by escap0
Also, u 'cube' lovers out there. Forget it. The cube's sexy ferrarri like looks never sold enough before.. so Apple wont risk that again.

Exactly right.

A non-computer analogy: one day at Ford Motor Company, an engineer shows his bosses a proposed new car design that, for whatever reason, has ANY distinguishable similarity to the Edsel. (e.g.: "Think about pushbutton gearshifting.") After the appropriate laughter, he is given a quick history lesson and told to try again.

Vote here (hope here, actually) is for a simple headless G4 design that retails for $599. At that price point, walls will start to fall in a way that Mac-only offices (you lucky people! :)) apparently can't possibly imagine. There are LCD and even CRT monitors galore out there that are suitable. All we want to do is make the Wintel "Oh-Macs-always-cost-too-much" green-eyeshaded anal-retentives say, "What da hey??" It's a Trojan horse! Or it could be.

jayscheuerle
Nov 21, 2003, 07:52 AM
Originally posted by leet1
http://www.referenceguide.com/reviews/gatewayprofile4.htm

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=pR0KrlEy1W8Kqm6Pbe8ApR49kWr4nuIRfV8=?CategoryName=cpu_VAIODesktopComputers_VSeries&ProductSKU=PCVV100GKIT1&Dept=cpu

Well, they are 1 piece...

But they've got that "designed by accountants" look.

Maybe you could edit your post and just say you couldn't find any?

:D

Sol
Nov 21, 2003, 08:48 AM
Originally posted by bwintx
Vote here (hope here, actually) is for a simple headless G4 design that retails for $599. At that price point, walls will start to fall in a way that Mac-only offices (you lucky people! :)) apparently can't possibly imagine.

Sounds more like a Mac console, like the Pippin, only more about video and music libraries than games and maybe even a portable. There is a Palm-based games console but it is designed for media cards, not a hard drive. Apple could do something like that, with a good, small resolution Open GL engine. With features like that people would do their portable gaming on it despite it's media libraries being the main focus of the device, assuming that the OS is easy for developers to work on, unlike the iPod. I guess that it would be running on a variant of OS X with a different interface intended for a small touch screen.

bensisko
Nov 21, 2003, 09:30 AM
Originally posted by escap0
I hate to cut it to you guys.. but it wont be a PDA. The reason is because the market is hashed... People arent shelling out money for PDAs the way they used to.. Apple wont risk entering a bear market.

Umm... iPod? MP3 players weren't exactually flying off shelves when Apple entered the market. I know it's hard to remember, but Apple saved the mp3 player market from drowning.

Please, do not take this as a endorcement for the possibility of an Apple PDA. They are not going to make one. Period. End of Story.

And about the Newton being a failure, that's a matter of opinion. How many other technology products have loyal legions long after their compnay has done away with them? If anybody must berate the Newton project, berate Apple's marketing of the product, not the product itself.

jayscheuerle
Nov 21, 2003, 09:36 AM
Originally posted by bensisko
Umm... iPod? MP3 players weren't exactually flying off shelves when Apple entered the market. I know it's hard to remember, but Apple saved the mp3 player market from drowning.


Actually, Apple redefined and expanded the mp3 player market with a revolutionary device. What they did was establish that people were willing to pay $300-$500 for a modern Walkman.

rt_brained
Nov 21, 2003, 09:58 AM
No one mentioned gold-plated underpants.

Sol
Nov 21, 2003, 10:12 AM
Originally posted by rt_brained
No one mentioned gold-plated underpants.

An Apple user would wear no less than Titanium underpants.

Mac Dummy
Nov 21, 2003, 10:45 AM
Originally posted by bensisko
My Guess: The eBook. A laptop for education that contains no optical drive, and only an ethernet and firewire port. It will contain a 10 gig hard drive and a lower end G4 chip. The eBook will be light weight and smaller due to it's 10" screen. It will also be equipped with Airport Extreme, and feature a new program for Panther that, when plugged into a desktop Mac via Firewire, you can easily install programs remotely and transfer files. Ultra-portable.

Hey, as long as we're all dreaming.....

I thought that Apple already had something like that, its called a 12" Ibook and it comes with a combo drive.:rolleyes:

Counterfit
Nov 21, 2003, 01:16 PM
Originally posted by Sol
An Apple user would wear no less than Titanium underpants. Or aluminum. And they'd have to have the glowing apple. Now to put it in the front or the back...

bensisko
Nov 21, 2003, 03:21 PM
Originally posted by Mac Dummy
I thought that Apple already had something like that, its called a 12" Ibook and it comes with a combo drive.:rolleyes:

Yeah, except the eBook would have a smaller footprint, be half as thin, and cheaper. Even the iBooks could be desktop replacements, this would be a desktop assistant (like the origional laptops were advertised as), and would compete with those really small and thing Sonys. Yes the 12" Powerbook is small, but an even smaller/cheaper one would be better for those people who own desktops, and want to take something with them that would fit inside a binder sleeve (not that you'd want to put one in there...). Now that they're friends with IBM, how about an Apple version of IBM's laptop/paper combo (one of those write on the paper and it shows up on the laptop...). That would be great for education!

jayscheuerle
Nov 21, 2003, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by bensisko
Yeah, except the eBook would have a smaller footprint, be half as thin, and cheaper. Even the iBooks could be desktop replacements, this would be a desktop assistant (like the origional laptops were advertised as), and would compete with those really small and thing Sonys. Yes the 12" Powerbook is small, but an even smaller/cheaper one would be better for those people who own desktops, and want to take something with them that would fit inside a binder sleeve (not that you'd want to put one in there...). Now that they're friends with IBM, how about an Apple version of IBM's laptop/paper combo (one of those write on the paper and it shows up on the laptop...). That would be great for education!

Grade-school kids would CRUSH anything thinner than the current iBooks...

bensisko
Nov 21, 2003, 03:33 PM
Originally posted by jayscheuerle
Actually, Apple redefined and expanded the mp3 player market with a revolutionary device. What they did was establish that people were willing to pay $300-$500 for a modern Walkman.

Right, but the point was that it wasn't an explosively popular market, which rules out the idea that Apple wouldn't enter the PDA market (or any market) just because sales are blah...

Apple could enter ANY market, and be successful, if they came up with an angle like the iPod/iTunes/iTMS. Apple could get into the PDA market by offering something that nobody knew they needed and make it work seemlessly with the Apple computer system. I don't think webcams are this, mostly because you have to rely on someone else in your social circle to have the same thing you have, whereas the iPod trinity does not require anybody else, just you.

Just as an example. The camera market seems like a tough place to break into, but what about a device (a tad larger than the iPod with a color screen and a hard drive) that allows you to plug in the iSight and record video and take still pictures. When you connect this device to your Mac, it brings up iPhoto and/or iMovie. Simple, works, and they would make alot of money. Want to sync with iPhoto for on-the-go picture viewing? Remove the iSight and you have a pocket-sized photo-album about the size of a picture wallet.

If it's done right, Apple can make anything successful.

escap0
Nov 21, 2003, 08:43 PM
Ok. Fair enough. But, here is what Steve Jobs said about the PDA. U can take this debate up with him:

http://www.newsfactor.com/perl/story/19461.html

Apple PDA Plans Gathering Dust

By Jay Wrolstad
Wireless NewsFactor
September 20, 2002

Apple's pioneering PDA, Newton, failed to take off a decade ago, largely because it was a clunky, expensive device that the public was not ready for. Now, with the market saturated with PDAs and smartphones, Apple may not be ready to try again.

Despite being the acknowledged pioneer in handheld computing with a device that was ahead of its time, Apple (Nasdaq: AAPL) has conspicuously avoided the PDA realm since the demise of the Newton. The best advice for Apple aficionados clamoring for a Mac "iPDA?" Don't hold your breath.

The semiannual Macworld trade show has seen the launch of several innovative devices during Steve Jobs' tenure at Apple, including the stylish iMac line and the more recent iPod MP3 player, for the company's relatively small but loyal following. Still, analysts contend that speculation surrounding a Mac OS PDA is just that -- and Apple, as may be expected, is tight-lipped regarding what is on the R&D drawing board.

In 1998, Apple pulled the plug on Newton -- the first PDA-like device and OS to hit the market -- after about five years of lackluster consumer acceptance. Gone, too, were the Newton OS-based MessagePad and eMate handheld devices. "This decision is consistent with our strategy to focus all of our software development resources on extending the Macintosh operating system," Jobs said at the time.

Rumors Persist

Yet rumors persist that Apple has a PDA up its sleeve. Aberdeen Group analyst Isaac Ro points to the iPod, along with Apple's new iSynch "Mac to mobile" Bluetooth platform, as evidence the company is experimenting with PDA functionality.

"The iPod has the basic technology to be a PDA, with limited PIM (personal information management) data applications built into a wireless device," he said. "But it is not clear that Apple would bring a PDA into the market."

Slumping Market

Ro noted that Newton failed to take off largely because it was a clunky, expensive device that the public was probably not ready for a decade ago. Now that the market is saturated with PDAs and smartphones that meld voice and data capabilities, Apple may want to hold tight before taking the plunge, he added.

"Jobs has said the market is limited for existing devices, and he may be waiting for next-generation wireless networks to roll out, offering Internet access and embedded technologies," Ro said. "If Apple does offer a PDA, they do not want to jump into a slumping market."

Jaguar Derivative?

Yankee Group analyst Sarah Kim agreed that now is not the best time for Apple to launch a PDA. Most Mac users already have a Palm PDA, she told Wireless NewsFactor, and it could be difficult to alter brand loyalty.

"To offer a new device, they would have to connect with consumers who are not using all that is available with PDAs today," she said. "People need to see the value beyond personal information management, which is available on the iPod."

Apple's new Jaguar OS could serve as the platform for a PDA operating system derivative, according to IDC analyst Kevin Burden. The OS X upgrade has features -- such as synchronization applications, a mail client and chat capability -- that would seem to work better on a handheld than a desktop machine, he pointed out.

Reputation for Style

But Burden believes the already crowded market could hinder development of an Apple handheld computer. "If Dell decides to get in, as rumored, it will be even more crowded, and we may see some consolidation rather than expansion," he said.

"The ground was not plowed for them back in the early 1990s, when Newton was released, but handhelds are sold on their core applications and design," Burden added. "Apple is well known for their innovative designs, and they could make inroads by changing the looks and utility of the PDA, just as they did with the PC."

Ro said the company could draw a sizeable portion of the Mac cult with a handheld device, and could expand the Mac OS base by offering desktop, MP3 and PDA hardware running on the same system. "They have already proven they can deliver very compelling devices," he said.




And if that is not enough look right here in Mac rumors.:
http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/05/20030529030024.shtml

bensisko
Nov 21, 2003, 09:23 PM
Originally posted by escap0
Ok. Fair enough. But, here is what Steve Jobs said about the PDA. U can take this debate up with him:

Yeah, I'm definatly on the "Apple won't ever make a PDA until Jobs is gone" boat. Although I would really like to see one, I don't want to see Jobs leave (in any way) just so I can have an Apple PDA (I've already got one.... the upg2100).

(Although, it's interesting to note that Andy Inhako's coloum in the latest Macworld centers around him wanting an Apple branded PDA. Good stuff, as per usual.)

What I would REALLY like to see, as long as we are all dreaming here, is a G5 tower that has one of those thin notebooks I described above that docks with the G5 (somewhat like the duo, but your home folder is located on the notebook's Hard drive and becomes the G5's Home folder (along with preferances) when docked).

macncheese
Nov 21, 2003, 09:38 PM
I'm voting for some sort of HD based MINIDV camcorder type device but I have no idea what the heck I'm talking about!

--
Cheese

smellyfish
Nov 21, 2003, 11:47 PM
peprika i've got it... the special edition iPod!!! its so simple, the thing thats about music... nov 28... and is something that has been rumored for some time... and a surprise is to be announced on nov 28... im a genius

Maybe a color screen, maybe palm os integrated... who knows:D

jayscheuerle
Nov 22, 2003, 01:30 AM
Apple offers a device that few, save Forum Macaholics, crave, want or even care about. Be it an 80 gig iPod, Newton2, Video iPod or Tablet Mac, it comes out, there's a nerd spike in sales and it goes flat as a cube expectation-wise.

They haven't pulled a "dumb as dirt" product launch in a number of years. Their cockiness has them long overdue for a beautifully brilliant mistake. In spite of the only blatantly visible, dirigably huge hole in their product line, Apple is most likely to launch some thing that nobody, save a few fanatics, wants.

That's the downside of Time Magazine proclaiming you to be some kind of genius. Eventually you start to believe it.

Frankly, I have a hard time remembering an Apple product launch where the vast majority of Apple faithful haven't been vastly disappointed. Of course, that's usually followed by the Kool-Aid soaked rally, clamoring to visions of unequaled greatness. We settle for mediocrity quicker than any fan-base in the world, as we chant "If Steve proclaimed it, it must be right, good, and true."

Regardless of the launch, I'm already set up to be disappointed, knowing that Apple's goals and my hopes are not on the same boat. I want more from my computing experience and they want more from my wallet. I figure we'll both be disappointed.

They've lost the benefit of the doubt...

Sol
Nov 22, 2003, 02:04 AM
Originally posted by jayscheuerle
We settle for mediocrity quicker than any fan-base in the world, as we chant "If Steve proclaimed it, it must be right, good, and true."

"We"?! It sounds to me like you have some unresolved issue with Steve Jobs.

Apple users may get dissapointed at product launches but that is due to high expectations. Everyone has a dream Mac that Apple will never release.

Like many here, I will be a little dissapointed when a headless eMac-spec Mac does not get announced at the end of the month. That does not mean that I would be put off buying another Mac when the time comes. Until the 1.6 GHz G5 PowerBook 12" gets released I will keep using the Dual 800 MHz QuickSilver PowerMac that Steve Jobs forced me at gun-point to purchase.

escap0
Nov 22, 2003, 02:26 AM
""""They haven't pulled a "dumb as dirt" product launch in a number of years. Their cockiness has them long overdue for a beautifully brilliant mistake. In spite of the only blatantly visible, dirigably huge hole in their product line, Apple is most likely to launch some thing that nobody, save a few fanatics, wants. """"

by jayscheuerle


Now... this is the best darn argument i've heard for it to be a PDA.

rt_brained
Nov 22, 2003, 07:40 AM
I like 'iCreate' magazine's idea on the back page.

bensisko
Nov 22, 2003, 08:26 AM
Originally posted by jayscheuerle
Apple offers a device that few, save Forum Macaholics, crave, want or even care about. Be it an 80 gig iPod, Newton2, Video iPod or Tablet Mac, it comes out, there's a nerd spike in sales and it goes flat as a cube expectation-wise.

Seems to me they already did that with the iSight/iChat.

Maybe you need to be at a PC forum or something.

visor
Nov 22, 2003, 09:09 AM
Originally posted by vwcruisn
Dual 3.0 G5 Powerbooks! ;)
ah, FINALLY!;')

visor
Nov 22, 2003, 09:39 AM
OK, headless does sound a bit stupid, but then again - I have 2 jolly good Displays sitting here, more or less not used.
Why would I want to buy a yet another display?

So ok the Powermac is headless, G5 and everything. But to expensive for me. Let's face it, I usually never need the two G5's power. Ever since Panther, the GUI is nice and fast on my old iBook and not even the Power of that is neccessary most of the time.

But OK, you just don't buy 26HP cars anymore.
I'd possibly go for a Powermac G4 - but naw, couln't do that, too noisy. even though the PMg4 would make some nice Cube interiours.

Looking at it from the User perspective - I bought the Ibook cuz it's quiet. What a relief not to hear any fans. Seems that the older i become the less I can stand the noise of fans. Come to think of it - there are almost no quiet Desktops around. Therefore I'd only go for a G5 now - only noisy when the Power is needed... a bit like a Porsche ;)

Why is it that I keep those computer/car comparison up? I don't even have a car - I ride motorcycles...

But it seems to be strangely adequate comparison. Esp. for Mac's. A car, just as a Mac, or any other completely oversized computer, does act as status symbol.

But I don't need a status symbol, all i want is a cheap quiet box that I can use and eventually update. i ride a bike because i don't fancy walking half a mile from a parking lot to whereever I wanted to go in the first place. i hate sticking in traffic jams and rather go lightwight between it. It's the same with computers...

Fukui
Nov 22, 2003, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by jayscheuerle
They haven't pulled a "dumb as dirt" product launch in a number of years. Their cockiness has them long overdue for a beautifully brilliant mistake. In spite of the only blatantly visible, dirigably huge hole in their product line, Apple is most likely to launch some thing that nobody, save a few fanatics, wants.

Like what, a tablet PC?

danman
Nov 22, 2003, 01:27 PM
...but:

I so wish for a small form factor Mac. This is the ideal switcher machine, as ppl at the iMac level will kinda think they are being forced to pay for the monitor etc etc, and they want a drop in replacement for their PC box, keeping monitor and peripherals etc.

Where this should pitch in? around the $500 mark, not $700+

For that, Apple can deliver a 1Ghz+ G4 with 256Mb Mem, and midrange video.

Apple needs to start thinking about accessible hardware platforms pricewise, and make more of a sell on their software, which now, with alot of people having an ingrained indifference to the look/ feel of their hardward (in the wintel world), is their unique advantage over MS/Intel.