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MacRumors
Dec 2, 2003, 12:34 PM
Appleinsider provides (http://www.appleinsider.com/news.php?id=255) some disappointing news for users awaiting a refresh of Apple's Cinema Displays. The rumor site does not expect revisions to take place until after the introduction of the next generation of PowerMacs which are placed sometime in early 2004.

Appleinsider, however, had previously cited "reliable" sources (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/10/20031008143622.shtml) that Apple LCD Revisions would take place in November 2003. November, obviously, brought no such revisions.

ksz
Dec 2, 2003, 12:36 PM
They'll make a bigger splash with the introduction of the 2nd generation G5s.

howard
Dec 2, 2003, 12:36 PM
my guess is they will be here for mac world in january...along with new xserves some speed bumps/price drops and a brand new apple product, and a few software updates :)

AmigoMac
Dec 2, 2003, 12:37 PM
I can feel displays coming before the expo in January... dunno why, but I feel it... hoe I'm right...

sabbath999
Dec 2, 2003, 12:37 PM
I was hoping for at least cheaper.

yoman
Dec 2, 2003, 12:37 PM
hopefully they are lighter than the current ones. Can't put them on partical board desks b/c the displays bend them due to extreme weight :).

MGnards
Dec 2, 2003, 12:39 PM
that stinks-I've been using the same cinema display for the past 3 years, and while I'm not complaining about its quality by any means, I was hoping for an upgrade soon.

arn
Dec 2, 2003, 12:43 PM
I'd like to point out.... as rumors go.... LCD revisions are pretty far down the list in terms of "reliable" rumors.

People expect LCD revisions because they don't match the PowerMac G5s.

But there have been very few reliable rumors that LCDs are actually being revised.

arn

Ambrose Chapel
Dec 2, 2003, 12:46 PM
i expected that by now at least the 17" would have been replaced with a widescreen model...

Silencio
Dec 2, 2003, 01:04 PM
Or I would at least expect a round of price cuts on the current models to keep them competitive. High demand and stagnant supply has kept flat panel prices from falling much lately, but the competition has found ways to get their prices down.

The 20" Cinema Display was a world beater when it first hit the market - the competition used to cost hundreds more than Apple's $1,299 list price. Now there are quite a few good choices (Samsung, Planar, etc) for 20" LCDs that run at 1600x1200 for $800-$1,100. They're not widescreen, but give you more pixels overall.

$699 for a 17" LCD running at 1280x1024 is bordering on lunacy these days. If only they were $499 or even $599 (though you can get refurbs for that price).

OTOH, the Cinema HD Display at $1,999 still blows away its competition. Sony and Viewsonic still don't even come close.

trilogic
Dec 2, 2003, 01:19 PM
I'm in the market for a new Cinema Display. 24" or 23" maybe a little brighter and more contrast the the actual displays.

Anyway I'm waiting for the new revision and I would like it to have G5 design. yeah baby yeah.:D

york2600
Dec 2, 2003, 01:50 PM
I really wanted to get an Apple LCD, but geez the things are crazy $$$. I bought a 17" Samsung LCD. It's a nice high quality LCD with a high resolution and it looks nice and it was 530 taxed and shipped. If Apple could get me something that nice in that price range I would have jumped on it, but they just can't do that.

Rod Rod
Dec 2, 2003, 01:52 PM
Samsung 211MP (http://www.samsungusa.com/cgi-bin/nabc/product/b2c_product_detail.jsp?eUser=&prod_id=211MP-Silver_Monitor) 1600x1200
Samsung 241MP (http://www.samsungusa.com/cgi-bin/nabc/product/b2c_product_detail.jsp?eUser=&prod_id=241MP-Silver_Monitor) 1920x1200
best buy site (more pictures, including speakers) 211MP (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1051384704926&skuId=5344308&type=product&productCategoryId=cat01013)
best buy site (more pictures) 241MP (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1051384703878&skuId=5344166&type=product&productCategoryId=cat01013)

of course the only thing "missing" is the Apple brand, but we've already foregone that with the Klipsch and Logitech 5.1 surround speakers.

Trowaman
Dec 2, 2003, 01:58 PM
If anything, i wouldn't expect these things until January at least. I get the feeling there won't be ANYTHING hardware wise or new software until mac world. All I see between now and then is OS 10.3.2 and some security. I doubt anything will happen before then.

k2k koos
Dec 2, 2003, 01:59 PM
Dunno about the rest of you, but I was hoping for a wide screen 17" display in the line up....for no more than $500,-
This would be a cost effective way to complement the single 1.6Ghz G5 9or whatever the second revision base model will be) and offer a competative package.
As much as I love the new iMacs, I like the option of upgrading parts of the system, larger screen for eample, and being able to enhance the system with PCI-X cards (in my case audio cards)
Fire wire is nice, but i like my desk space tidy, and don't really like to see a gazillion drives etc all over the desktop....

As long as the match the G5s , are wide screen through out the range, (incl a 17") and are improved then I am very happy. i'm sre i will be, we are talking Apple, they always surprise me positively.

ksz
Dec 2, 2003, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by Silencio
$699 for a 17" LCD running at 1280x1024 is bordering on lunacy these days. If only they were $499 or even $599 (though you can get refurbs for that price).

OTOH, the Cinema HD Display at $1,999 still blows away its competition. Sony and Viewsonic still don't even come close.
I hear there were some insane deals early on Thanksgiving Friday. 17" LCDs selling in the $200s and equally insane people queuing up at ungodly hours!

Apple has led the charge with LCDs and it seems they want to push the envelope further. I hope they continue to pressure their suppliers not only for larger screen sizes, but also higher pixel densities (less screen-door effect), faster refresh rates, 10-bit gamma correction such as this model from Sharp (http://www.sharpsystems.com/products/lcd_monitors/18-20_inch/ll-t2020/), and improved contrast. Then I will be able to retire my Mitsubishi flat-screen CRT (beautiful image quality) for all the photo editing I currently do as an amateur photographer.

ebow
Dec 2, 2003, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by Rod Rod
of course the only thing "missing" is the Apple brand, but we've already foregone that with the Klipsch and Logitech 5.1 surround speakers.

Well they're also missing digital input (the Samsung site claims analog only) for whatever that's worth (I imagine it's significant but don't know for sure). And there are no USB connectors... whether bundled together in and ADC cable or separate. On the whole though, those displays look great.

coolfactor
Dec 2, 2003, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by Rod Rod
Samsung 211MP (http://www.samsungusa.com/cgi-bin/nabc/product/b2c_product_detail.jsp?eUser=&prod_id=211MP-Silver_Monitor) 1600x1200
Samsung 241MP (http://www.samsungusa.com/cgi-bin/nabc/product/b2c_product_detail.jsp?eUser=&prod_id=241MP-Silver_Monitor) 1920x1200
best buy site (more pictures, including speakers) 211MP (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1051384704926&skuId=5344308&type=product&productCategoryId=cat01013)
best buy site (more pictures) 241MP (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1051384703878&skuId=5344166&type=product&productCategoryId=cat01013)

of course the only thing "missing" is the Apple brand, but we've already foregone that with the Klipsch and Logitech 5.1 surround speakers.

I'm really surprised that very few companies can get a design "just right". Sony and Apple do, and then there are all the take-offs. But those Samsungs just look weird.

k2k koos
Dec 2, 2003, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by Silencio
$699 for a 17" LCD running at 1280x1024 is bordering on lunacy these days. If only they were $499 or even $599 (though you can get refurbs for that price).


All good and well, but are those low price models "all digital" monitors, or do they only have VGA inputs, which would be a bad thing.

VGA is dead, long live ADC and DVI.;)

ZildjianKX
Dec 2, 2003, 02:21 PM
Originally posted by york2600
I really wanted to get an Apple LCD, but geez the things are crazy $$$. I bought a 17" Samsung LCD. It's a nice high quality LCD with a high resolution and it looks nice and it was 530 taxed and shipped. If Apple could get me something that nice in that price range I would have jumped on it, but they just can't do that.

I second that. Not to mention you got a longer warranty too, huh? The place I bought mine from actually had a 100% no dead/stuck pixel gurantee, you can't beat that. The dual DVI and VGA input really comes in handy too.

dongmin
Dec 2, 2003, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by Rod Rod
Samsung 211MP (http://www.samsungusa.com/cgi-bin/nabc/product/b2c_product_detail.jsp?eUser=&prod_id=211MP-Silver_Monitor) 1600x1200
Samsung 241MP (http://www.samsungusa.com/cgi-bin/nabc/product/b2c_product_detail.jsp?eUser=&prod_id=241MP-Silver_Monitor) 1920x1200
best buy site (more pictures, including speakers) 211MP (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1051384704926&skuId=5344308&type=product&productCategoryId=cat01013)
best buy site (more pictures) 241MP (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1051384703878&skuId=5344166&type=product&productCategoryId=cat01013)

of course the only thing "missing" is the Apple brand, but we've already foregone that with the Klipsch and Logitech 5.1 surround speakers. Sure these are feature-loaded, but you pay through the nose for them. The Samsung 21" (8.8% more pixels) costs $2599, twice the Apple 21". That's just crazy. The 24", which has the same resolution as the Apple 23", costs $4999, compared to Apple's $1999. That's $3000 more for some extra inputs--insane.

dongmin
Dec 2, 2003, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by k2k koos
Dunno about the rest of you, but I was hoping for a wide screen 17" display in the line up....for no more than $500,-
This would be a cost effective way to complement the single 1.6Ghz G5. My school offers the 1.6 ghz G5 and the 17" studio display for $1899, which is $300 over the Power Mac alone. A sweet deal if you're cool enough with a 1.6 ghz G5.

TomSmithMacEd
Dec 2, 2003, 02:44 PM
It is amazing how much we are looking forward to in San Fran. I'm so excited for the event. I wonder what is really up Apple's sleves.

the_mole1314
Dec 2, 2003, 02:54 PM
I bet we'll see it right before San Fran Expo, that's my own hunch.

Toppa G's
Dec 2, 2003, 02:55 PM
Both Office Max and Best Buy were offering 17" LCDs for under $300 on Friday morning...Best Buy had a Samsung model (SyncMaster 175e or something) that was not very notably advertised in circulars or instore (It was supposed to be bundled with Media Centers, I think), but a great deal to those who found it (including me) :D

Dahl
Dec 2, 2003, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by arn
I'd like to point out.... as rumors go.... LCD revisions are pretty far down the list in terms of "reliable" rumors.

People expect LCD revisions because they don't match the PowerMac G5s.

But there have been very few reliable rumors that LCDs are actually being revised.

arn
I guess they can't "force" price cuts, if it doesn't make sense. I believe ( hope ) they would introduce new designs, just so they match the G5's.
If they can't do anything about the price, they must be able to change the design a bit, a different stand and less border around the screen doesn't have to cost a lot. But Apple probably want to make a huge splash, so it's probably not enough changes to make ?

ITR 81
Dec 2, 2003, 03:33 PM
I believe the LCD's are ready they are just holding back thinking it would make bigger splash to release the new LCD's with next ver. of the G5's along with all the other cool stuff they will release at Macworld and at the CES show.

macMaestro
Dec 2, 2003, 03:39 PM
I'd say Macworld as a date.

Man, a 30" Apple G5-matching LCD would be sweet. If only I had a G5... :rolleyes:

MoparShaha
Dec 2, 2003, 03:54 PM
I would love to see a 17" widescreen LCD, priced around $500. I think we'll be seeing new displays at Macworld.

Dahl
Dec 2, 2003, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by ITR 81
I believe the LCD's are ready they are just holding back thinking it would make bigger splash to release the new LCD's with next ver. of the G5's along with all the other cool stuff they will release at Macworld and at the CES show.
While I too believe they want to make a big splash, I don't think they would hold back LCD's or other products that are ready.
That just means lost sales to other companies.

lha72
Dec 2, 2003, 05:36 PM
Why wait for apple to get around to updating their monitors when you can buy another brand that is just as good or better. I like my Sony 23" SDM-P232W - multiple inputs, internal power supply, 1920X1200 display, both digital and analog, adjustible tilt, AND small bezel. Shopped around and got it for less than a 23" apple display would have cost me.

Dahl
Dec 2, 2003, 05:45 PM
If Apple sit on their hands too long, I might get another brand.
Got a link for the Sony monitor ?

atomwork
Dec 2, 2003, 06:05 PM
Originally posted by lha72
Why wait for apple to get around to updating their monitors when you can buy another brand that is just as good or better. I like my Sony 23" SDM-P232W - multiple inputs, internal power supply, 1920X1200 display, both digital and analog, adjustible tilt, AND small bezel. Shopped around and got it for less than a 23" apple display would have cost me.



... hey, you're talking to mac addicts. I need my apple logo shining at me 24/7.

lha72
Dec 2, 2003, 06:32 PM
Yeah, I too like my Mac, but I figure as long as the box (CPU) is Apple, I can pick and choose the peripherals, such as Sony monitor, Harmon/Kardon speakers, Logitech Mx700 mouse, etc.

Did however make the mistake of getting the Harmon/Kardon speakers (sound sticks) from apple when I could have gotten similar speakers elsewhere. When I switched over to Panther, the speakers stopped working, so I called apple to use some of their apple care. Their reply - "Not our problem, you have to call the manufacturer." Wrong answer. I'll keep that in mind the next time I'm looking for peripherals.

The price on the Sony 23" varies from around $1900 to $2599, depending on dealer and time of year. I got the monitor this past summer after searching on line, studying the reviews, and finding a reputible retailer with a good reputation. Paid $2000 and change, including shipping. Couldn't match that with an apple display.

This is not meant to be a review or endorsement, but I find the Sony SDM-P232W to be very easy on the eyes. I use it for the standard applications - Photoshop, (and IPhoto), Word, Excel, Powerpoint, Safari for web research, etc. I don't do games, so I can't really say how it would be on game refresh. Believe if one were to do gaming, a CRT is probably better (and much cheaper) anyway.

I like the Sony, and if I had to do it again, I would still buy it.

Hope that helps.

kangaroo
Dec 2, 2003, 08:09 PM
When aapl came out with the whole translucent white/clear plastic look it was 'different', cool--it was Apple. It's starting to look dated, however, and it's time they move on. If they do have new displays which sport better technical specs and a new form factor--they should get'm out there so people can buy them--myself included.

ZildjianKX
Dec 2, 2003, 08:54 PM
Wow, I'm proud of you guys, I mean it. Most of you are talking about how much better it is to buy a non-Apple product... that shocks me. Its true, just buy an Apple computer, and the rest you're better off buying from some other company.

prismfinder
Dec 2, 2003, 09:26 PM
I can't believe no one has mentioned how badly the Apple displays are in need of higher contrast ratio and brightness. I don't mind the prices...I just expect a better display for that kind of money.

bousozoku
Dec 2, 2003, 09:28 PM
A month ago, I was reading some Taiwanese electronics weekly online that was saying the price of LCDs was going up again due to Christmas demand. The price of a 30 inch would be prohibitive anyway, so it's not surprising that, if Apple were to deliver such an item, they would wait until it was cost-effective.

By the way, what's the use of buying a 17 or 19 inch LCD that only has a resolution of 1280x1024, especially if it only has an analog VGA connector? Low prices aren't always a good deal, right?

ksz
Dec 2, 2003, 09:29 PM
Originally posted by atomwork
... hey, you're talking to mac addicts. I need my apple logo shining at me 24/7.
Yeah, it's like that!

If there's a model from Apple that fares very well against the competition, I'll choose the Apple brand. However, if Apple begins to suffer serious lapses in quality and reliability (or key product specifications) I will not waste my money.

iPC
Dec 2, 2003, 09:35 PM
More to Come


Hewlett-Packard, meanwhile, showed off a pair of new LCD monitors.


The company plans to introduce in February a 23-inch wide-aspect-ratio model, the 2335, priced at $1799. Also coming in February is 20-inch LCD, the 2035, which will cost $949. That model is a refresh of HP's existing model 2020, released last year.


NEC-Mitsubishi also is expanding its LCD lineup. The 20-inch NEC MultiSync LCD 2080UX+ will be available in January for $1499. Also expected in January is the 21-inch LCD2180UX, which will list for $1549. Both offer 1600-by-1200 resolution.


ViewSonic's new DigitalMedia VG series of LCD monitors with built-in speakers includes the 19.1-inch VG910, due in December priced at $749. The VG910 features 1280-by-1024 resolution and is available with either silver or black bezels.
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,113561,00.asp

vs.

http://store.apple.com/

wiz7dome
Dec 3, 2003, 06:01 AM
Originally posted by coolfactor
I'm really surprised that very few companies can get a design "just right". Sony and Apple do, and then there are all the take-offs. But those Samsungs just look weird.

I switched to Mac's last year and one of the things that attracted me to the Apple Store (section to some) is the LCD display. I did like the fact that it matched the G4's case, however, on its own it still looks good. It does not look like a-typical computer hardware. I can stick the tower under a desk with no issue, but the screen I'd love to show off. Can someone please explane the need for an all new design to match the G5?

Cooknn
Dec 3, 2003, 07:51 AM
Originally posted by arn
People expect LCD revisions because they don't match the PowerMac G5s.Then again, neither do the new BT Mouse or Keyboard.

BTW - if you want a desk that works very well visually with the new G5, check out the Z-Line Eclipse Mobile Computer Workstation http://tinyurl.com/9kit. You can get one at Staples for about $150. It's got the same design as the G5 - interestingly enough the pic above shows a "plastic" Mac :p

snapjax
Dec 3, 2003, 07:51 AM
My take is widescreen 17-inch entry-level display at $599, price drops to $899 for the 20-inch and $1599 for the 23-inch, and a new 30-inch display with a resolution of about 2500x1400 for $2499.
Trouble is I think it will be AFTER Macworld when they announce them.

Cooknn
Dec 3, 2003, 07:58 AM
Originally posted by ebow
Well they're also missing digital input (the Samsung site claims analog only) for whatever that's worth (I imagine it's significant but don't know for sure). And there are no USB connectors... whether bundled together in and ADC cable or separate. On the whole though, those displays look great. I bet the base on those Samsung LCD's are made of plastic :(

jumanji
Dec 3, 2003, 09:11 AM
I am sorry, but there is no way a 17" monitor is worth $599. That's the going rate for 19" LCD displays now and you can get very good ones for less that that.

right now, you can get pc world's top recommendation, a Dell 1901FP for $550. Its got 1280 x 1024 and its got 4 usb ports on it and it includes a 3yr warranty.

I called my apple rep yesterday and told him that he had to do something about the price of the monitors. I am planning on buying 6 of them...but I can't justify spending more for less just for looks.

the 17" should not be more than $399. Apple is counting on loyalty to make people pay extra for a similar product. a widescreen would be cool for an extra $100.

I also think they should come out with a 19" monitor - make that one $599 to compare with the dell, samsung, and sony monitors.

he said he'd get back to me - i do expect a small discount, but if its not significant, I will be forced to buy the dell 19" ones.

snapjax
Dec 3, 2003, 09:28 AM
$599 for 17" is high but we are talking about Apple. Plus it will be widescreen, all Apple displays will be widescreen from now on IMHO.

ksz
Dec 3, 2003, 11:08 AM
Apple's price for the 23" is very competitive at $1999, if not lower than many others. There's no reason they should not be competitive at the low end of the line as well. If you want to drive the last nail into the coffin of the CRT, you will have to compete on the low end right thru to the high. Frankly, image quality and pixel response on LCDs is getting better, but still falls short of quality flat-screen CRTs which are cheaper than equivalent-size LCDs. If I want convenience of space and lower power consumption, I can justify the higher price of LCDs, but if image quality, contrast, brightness, complete absence of dead pixels, and pixel response (refresh) rate is more important (as it is for me), CRT is the answer. Going back and forth between a friend's 23" Cinema display and my Mitsubishi flat-screen CRT, I am always surprised by the better image quality on the (much) lower-cost CRT.

LCD contrast, pixel density, response time, gamma correction, and other specs are continuing to improve. I expect to see LCD displays within 18 months that will meet my criteria for image quality. However, I am eager to see the specs of Apple's new models.

Cooknn
Dec 3, 2003, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by ksz
I am always surprised by the better image quality on the (much) lower-cost CRTAfter dead/stuck pixel problems on two new 20" ACD's I went back to my 22" Viewsonic P225fb Flat Screen CRT. Excellent monitor. Especially when you factor in the cost at $750 less than the Apple Cinema Display...

ksz
Dec 3, 2003, 11:53 AM
Agreed. Consumers are being lulled into believing that 3-4 (sometimes more) dead/stuck pixels is an okay thing in LCD displays. I don't think so. A defect is a defect. It is not okay; it is at best tolerable -- particularly if the stuck-on color is not obtrusive and if the dead pixels lie along the edges of the display.

But think about it...for convenience of space and reduced power consumption, we are offering huge compromises:

1. We are accepting dead/stuck pixels. In fact, we just hope we'll get a monitor with few or no dead pixels. There is no certainty it will be defect-free. It's a gamble: we don't know what hand we will be dealt.
2. We are accepting relatively poor contrast ratios.
3. We are accepting the screen-door effect (low pixel densities).
4. We are accepting slow pixel response times.

and...

5. We are paying through the nose for these compromises.

Space and power are good to economize, but not like this. Granted, many people are very happy with LCD image quality. They suffer no dead pixels and enjoy the convenience. But if image quality is an overriding factor, LCDs aren't quite there yet.

dongmin
Dec 3, 2003, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by ksz
5. We are paying through the nose for these compromises. I agree that the 17" is overpriced, but Apple's 20" and 23" are priced below the market average for monitors of comparable resolutions. The 17" should go below $500 and it should go wide-screen. It'd also be psychologically huge to lower the 20" to below a grand, $999.

The 23" could use a 20-30% drop too of course, but right now the 23" with its resolution (HD) is the most competitive in the market. (The Sony that a previous poster mentioned runs $2300-2500, not $1900.) Finally, it'd be amazing if Apple released a 30" HD with a TV tuner for $2500.

wdlove
Dec 3, 2003, 07:56 PM
I think that it would be appropriate for Apple to wait till MWSF. Since we expect the Rev. B Power Mac G5 to be announced by Steve in January, it would be awesome to also see the Cinema Display updated.

BOOMBA
Dec 8, 2003, 08:01 AM
Originally posted by coolfactor
I'm really surprised that very few companies can get a design "just right". Sony and Apple do, and then there are all the take-offs. But those Samsungs just look weird.

Right again, coolfactor!

Packetloss
Jan 5, 2004, 03:50 PM
Anyone heard anything new if Apple will release the new Cinema Displays tomorrow?

Some rumors must have leaked.....

It's about time as it's been 6 months since the G5 was released and the current design is not nice at all.

jameskk
Jan 19, 2004, 01:40 PM
I don't know if this means anything but I ordered a 20" Cinema Display from the online store on Saturday and the est. ship date was 1/19 and today it changed to 1/20. too bad the DVI-ADC converter (for my PB 15") is delayed until 2/3.. or, maybe this could be another sign?

SouthPaW
Jan 19, 2004, 02:06 PM
Originally posted by jameskk
I don't know if this means anything but I ordered a 20" Cinema Display from the online store on Saturday and the est. ship date was 1/19 and today it changed to 1/20. too bad the DVI-ADC converter (for my PB 15") is delayed until 2/3.. or, maybe this could be another sign?

Great news! Guess we'll see tomorrow! It'd be awesome if you got auto-upgraded to the new displays :)

ddbean
Jan 19, 2004, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by jameskk
I don't know if this means anything but I ordered a 20" Cinema Display from the online store on Saturday and the est. ship date was 1/19 and today it changed to 1/20. too bad the DVI-ADC converter (for my PB 15") is delayed until 2/3.. or, maybe this could be another sign?

I'd guess it was just a holiday correction, since many people (in US anyway) have today off...
seems strange about the DVI-ADC adapter though, so maybe something's in the works???

jameskk
Jan 20, 2004, 05:00 PM
my 20" Cinema shipped today. The DVI-ADC shipped too, from TW. Oh well, at least it will match my Apple wireless keyboard/mouse.

jrv3034
Jan 20, 2004, 09:13 PM
I don't know about display updates anytime soon. I keep seeing Apple ads in magazines (DV, Videomaker, eMedia) that feature the G5 with the current Cinema Displays. I'm starting to think that it'll be a while before they get an update. Does anyone know how well they're selling? If sales are strong, they have little incentive to mess with them (form factor or price).:(

kjs862
Jan 21, 2004, 03:06 PM
I am currently using an Apple 22" Cinema Display and want to get a second display for duel monitor setup. I was planning on going for an Apple 23" Cinema Display, but now i'm a little skeptical thinking that a new line is going to come out when I buy it. What do you think I should do ?

Thanks

wdlove
Jan 21, 2004, 06:27 PM
Originally posted by kjs862
I am currently using an Apple 22" Cinema Display and want to get a second display for duel monitor setup. I was planning on going for an Apple 23" Cinema Display, but now i'm a little skeptical thinking that a new line is going to come out when I buy it. What do you think I should do ?

Thanks

I would suggest waiting to see what Steve will announce for the 24th Anniversary of the Mac. Then it all depends on how important of a need that you have.

kjs862
Jan 21, 2004, 11:19 PM
When is the 24th Anniversary of the Mac ? Thanks

Rod Rod
Jan 21, 2004, 11:31 PM
wdlove might have meant the 20th anniversary, which is this coming January 24th.

what I wonder is what a duel between 22" and 23" Cinema Displays would look like. who'd win?

wdlove
Jan 22, 2004, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by kjs862
When is the 24th Anniversary of the Mac ? Thanks

I'm sorry about that. :( I meant to say that it's the 20th Anniversary of the Mac on Saturday the 24th. Still hoping for a well deserved suprise.

Rod Rod, as far as I know Apple no longer makes the 22". The current lineup is the 17", 20" and 23". But who knows what the lineup might be like after an overdue upgrade to compliment the G5. It's possible that they might drop the 17" or 20" and add a 30". We will just have to wait for Steve note!

Rod Rod
Jan 22, 2004, 03:20 PM
hi wdlove.. it was a joke about the misspelling / wrong word a lot of people use in place of "dual." (duel, as in, hey what would a duel setup of a 22" and a 23" be like?) sorry! :)

army_guy
Jan 26, 2004, 03:24 PM
Anyone know the LCD technology of the new displays, just looked at the new S-IPS and IMO the image is worse. Contrast, Colour, brigtness and responce even though they claim 20ms it felt like 40ms bluring everywhere.

Seems to me LCD manufacturers are going backwards. Iill be getting a new 23-24 inch 16:10 monitor during the end of the year, problem was deciding either LCD or CRT. Every LCD larger than 19 inch seems to have major ghosting.

Will Apple fix these problems?

Rower_CPU
Jan 26, 2004, 03:51 PM
Apple doesn't make the panels. They use Samsung panels, IIRC.

Check to see what Samsung is doing with panel tech these days.

army_guy
Jan 28, 2004, 05:47 AM
Iam still not convinced about LCD's its gona take a long long time before they can replace the TOP CRTS. 17 LCD's are good and the latest 19" from DELL IMO is the best but even at 19" there is still problems. I think it will be 18-24 months before the larger panels are actually good enough in terms of brightness, contrast, colour, responce time and using multiple-resulutions. all panel s over 19" are pathetic to the above. Till then my next monitor will be the 24" CRT from SONY which excells in all of the above accept the depth!! And here we have LCD manufacturers making LCD TV's 30" and more now thats some serious ghosting

Grimace
Jan 28, 2004, 11:28 AM
there are good 19"+ LCDs out there, but they cost more....

Maybe a secret superbowl ad for new Powermacs/Displays is in the works...

army_guy
Jan 28, 2004, 01:34 PM
yes they cost more. IMO i consider the SONY GDM-FW900 (slightly lower price than current Apple 23" LCD) to be CRT perfection and its my next purchase during this year (I hear sony is updating it, so iam waiting) unless of coarse theres an LCD that can match it (New Apple cinema?) in terms of colour, brightness, contrast, response time and no DEAD pixles please and have the ability to downscale resolutions perfectly.

BJNY
Jan 28, 2004, 04:06 PM
I sold my Sony FW900 almost two years ago because it didn't compare in terms of sharpness, color, contrast, & brightness. It's a huge feat to focus the red, green and blue guns over a 24" diagonal and at 1920 resolution.

I won't be surprised if Sony updates their 24" making it into a larger Artisan (my current display is the 21").

A photographer/speaker/Photoshop guru conducted a side-by-side extensive comparison between the Sony Artisan, Eizo CG21 (10-bit gamma & Eye One friendly), and Apple 23" ACD among others using instruments & software from Gretag & Monaco. Bottom line, I have zero qualms about purchasing the Apple 23" for critical color.

BJNY
Jan 28, 2004, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU
Apple doesn't make the panels. They use Samsung panels, IIRC.

Check to see what Samsung is doing with panel tech these days.

The 23" panel is made by LG-Philips
while the 20" panel is made by Chi Mei.

Rower_CPU
Jan 28, 2004, 04:56 PM
Originally posted by BJNY
The 23" panel is made by LG-Philips
while the 20" panel is made by Chi Mei.

I thought there were some other manufacturers in there too, but couldn't find the info. Thanks for the correction.

army_guy
Jan 28, 2004, 05:30 PM
Colour is only one thing, what about the rest, response time, dead pixles, contrast, brightness? Multiple Resulutions. Yes focusing those guns is pain but once you sort it its sorted. Sony will be updating the 24" as the FW900 is quite old. LCD technology is catching up but its gona be maybe 18-24 months before we see panels matching that 24" CRT. Depending whether Iam playing games or designing/simulating silicon layouts/VHDL/schematics it looks like its better to have both an LCD(for work assuming it doesnt blur and give me headach) and CRT (for play and work) I dont mind CRT's taking up my deskspace as my desk is very wide anyway so space is not the issue, I feel a CRT would be best for me if I didnt have the choice of having both.

Rower_CPU
Jan 28, 2004, 05:34 PM
How do you get a headache from an LCD? You said blur, so I assume that means running it an non-native resolution and/or ghosting?

I had horrible ones from using CRTs, but now that I'm on LCDs all the time, I'm loving life.

army_guy
Jan 29, 2004, 05:50 AM
Even at native resolutions, theres blur, typing fast would make text ghost accross the screen. Even switching resolutions was problematic it becomes blury. Iam not ruling out the possibility of an LCD I just see disadvantages and problems which will be fixed but in a long time to come.

Rower_CPU
Jan 29, 2004, 12:45 PM
What brand/models are you using? That way I know what to avoid. It also might be a bad video card, AD converter, etc.

I've got a lab full of Dell 15"s and several Apple 17"s and none of them do anything like what you describe.

army_guy
Jan 29, 2004, 02:29 PM
The samsung was bad. the 17" are fine but iam talking about the larger panels 19"+ including the Apple 20", the 23" and the sony 23" which is the worst. All have rediculous response times. Even my dads 17" powerbook cannot display good enough colour or contrast compared to my 21 DELL FD (4 year old!!!).

The problems for LCD manufacturers to address for LARGE displays 19",20",23" etc.... not small displays as they are fine.

1) Response Time. (<10ms)
2) Contrast.
3) Dead pixels. (though I can live with 1 or 2 if there not obstructive).
4) Brightness.
5) Colour.

I swear by CRT's and will do until large LCD's can pack a punch in ALL of the above.

Rower_CPU
Jan 29, 2004, 03:17 PM
Odd, because I've never seen any of that on the demo models in stores. Different strokes for different folks, my man.

My issues are:
- no screen refresh bombarding my eyes
- heat
- energy consumption
- weight
- footprint

LCDs are still fairly young, but at the current rate they are progressing, I don't think it will be long for them to have sufficient response time, contrast, brightness, color etc to surpass those old dinosaur CRTs.

army_guy
Jan 29, 2004, 04:12 PM
When the issues have gone then an LCD it will be, but until then Ill stick with CRT's.

Footprint I dont really care, the refresh is at 85Hz so very comfortable, energy i dont care, weight I dont care as I dont move it. The heat is there but then the larger LCD panels generate alot of heat anyway so that desnt count.

Rower_CPU
Jan 29, 2004, 04:45 PM
Exactly, it's a subjective choice.

3ric
Jan 29, 2004, 05:36 PM
I'd been waiting and waiting and waiting...

Then I saw a 23"er in the local Apple store with a yellow tag labelled "refreshed" for $1699. After checkin it out thoroughly for stuck/dead pixels (none) and other wear (don't see any) I bought it.

I'd been looking at other with higher contrast ratios (& price tags) and really, looking at this, even though it's 300:1... seems good to me! And for the $, I can't complain!

So when they do come out with Aluminum or whatever new displays, I'll just save my cash for the next generation. Maybe Apple will be the first to use a holographic display!

army_guy
Jan 29, 2004, 05:45 PM
DUAL 23" yeah that would be nice, layout design on one panel and VHDL coding+Schematic design on the second yeah! or maybe TRIPLE 23" mygod!! Apple do you have anything bigger??

Sir_Giggles
Jan 29, 2004, 05:52 PM
Originally posted by army_guy
When the issues have gone then an LCD it will be, but until then Ill stick with CRT's.

Footprint I dont really care, the refresh is at 85Hz so very comfortable, energy i dont care, weight I dont care as I dont move it. The heat is there but then the larger LCD panels generate alot of heat anyway so that desnt count.

Dude, if you never used a Cinema Display for any period of time, you'll find just how ignorant you are. After having used my 20" Cinema Display for several weeks now, I will never go back to CRT.

army_guy
Jan 30, 2004, 07:07 AM
Ive tried many LCD panels including the Apple, they dont match my CRT in anyway. The larger panels are the worst 23" though the Apple is pretty good, the SONY LCD is a LOAD of C##P. Heck I even put my DADS PB 17" side by side and its not good enough.

Fix the things below then ill consider LCD's, until then iam happy.

1) Response Time. (<10ms NO panel can currently excell at this)
2) Contrast (Need pure black and pure white, not dark green and grey).
3) Dead pixels. (though I can live with 1 or 2 if there not obstructive).
4) Brightness. (Apple panels not bad on this, but just a little bit more please)
5) Colour. (Apple panels allready OK on this)

benpatient
Jan 30, 2004, 09:00 AM
sir giggles, you simply don't know what you're talking about, i'm sorry...

graphic designers and movie editing people need accurate, calibrated color. Most LCDs cannot meet the needs of someone who is looking for a very accurate color/contrast image on their screen. In fact, there is not yet an LCD that can match the color on say a LaCie Electron Blue 22.

Not one.

I've gotten mine calibrated pretty closely, but it still doesn't match the contrast or brightness of the CRT, and when I'm checking color, I have to pull it up on the second monitor.

Video/film editing simply cannot have ghosting problems, and there are some LCDs on the market now that have a fast enough response time to avoid ghosting (generally anything under 16-20 is fine for film), but the large apple displays are not on the list, and i'm not sure that the small ones are. There is no ghosting issue at all with a CRT.

My LCD is more pleasant to look at for long periods of time, and it's definitely more "cool" and all of that, but for down-and-dirty work, coolness just doesn't matter if it hurts productivity.

The reason you see contrast and brightness numbers on an LCD and not on CRTs is because it's so incredibly huge on a good CRT as to not matter at all. In fact, from a purely honest, no-cool-factor-involved stance, a 200 dollar 17" ViewSonic CRT is a better choice for color correctness, film editing, or game playing than any LCD currently on the market.

Like army_guy said, when contrast is up around 1000:1 on upper-mid level LCDs and brightness is about the equivalent of 400-500, coupled with a good response time and refresh rate (under 10ms would be just great), it will be time for serious visual professionals to use LCDs in critical applications. It's not yet that time.

Rower_CPU
Jan 30, 2004, 11:05 AM
Again, benpatient, you're extending the needs of a small group of users to everyone who uses a machine, just as army_guy keeps doing to back up the claims that CRTs are better than LCDs. In some very particular applications, yes, CRTs are superior. On the things that are important to me and many others, LCDs are light years better than CRTs.

In the near future, LCDs will completely replace CRTs. Get over it.

Foxer
Jan 30, 2004, 11:37 AM
So when the updates come (and they will), I guess we can assume that they will match the aluminum/brushed metal look of the G5's. Any idea how they'll do that. I can't really picture a metal LCD display (maybe I just got used to the current design). I guess that just a enlarged version of the PowerBook creen (with metal on the back, that display basically taking the entirety of the front, with only small, wrap-around boarders) would look sleek.

army_guy
Jan 30, 2004, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by benpatient
sir giggles, you simply don't know what you're talking about, i'm sorry...

graphic designers and movie editing people need accurate, calibrated color. Most LCDs cannot meet the needs of someone who is looking for a very accurate color/contrast image on their screen. In fact, there is not yet an LCD that can match the color on say a LaCie Electron Blue 22.

Not one.

I've gotten mine calibrated pretty closely, but it still doesn't match the contrast or brightness of the CRT, and when I'm checking color, I have to pull it up on the second monitor.

Video/film editing simply cannot have ghosting problems, and there are some LCDs on the market now that have a fast enough response time to avoid ghosting (generally anything under 16-20 is fine for film), but the large apple displays are not on the list, and i'm not sure that the small ones are. There is no ghosting issue at all with a CRT.

My LCD is more pleasant to look at for long periods of time, and it's definitely more "cool" and all of that, but for down-and-dirty work, coolness just doesn't matter if it hurts productivity.

The reason you see contrast and brightness numbers on an LCD and not on CRTs is because it's so incredibly huge on a good CRT as to not matter at all. In fact, from a purely honest, no-cool-factor-involved stance, a 200 dollar 17" ViewSonic CRT is a better choice for color correctness, film editing, or game playing than any LCD currently on the market.

Like army_guy said, when contrast is up around 1000:1 on upper-mid level LCDs and brightness is about the equivalent of 400-500, coupled with a good response time and refresh rate (under 10ms would be just great), it will be time for serious visual professionals to use LCDs in critical applications. It's not yet that time.

You took the words right out of my mouth!

Iam predicting LCD's will be good enough in 12-18 months and when that happens CRT's will be out as there will be no reason not to switch to an LCD unless theres a huge price difference though I doubt it, highend CRT's are not exactly cheap.

army_guy
Jan 30, 2004, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU
Again, benpatient, you're extending the needs of a small group of users to everyone who uses a machine, just as army_guy keeps doing to back up the claims that CRTs are better than LCDs. In some very particular applications, yes, CRTs are superior. On the things that are important to me and many others, LCDs are light years better than CRTs.

In the near future, LCDs will completely replace CRTs. Get over it.

Particular applications? like what?

No one said LCD's wouldnt replace CRT's all were saying is that its not now. LCD's will continue to improve and IMO will reach CRT quality in no less than 12-24 months and maybe another 12 months before they come down in price to make them viable to ALL people. 3 years dude at least.

Rower_CPU
Jan 30, 2004, 03:37 PM
benpatient and you have listed the following applications:
Gaming, Digital Video watching/editing, color sensitive work in video and graphics.

Fact is, those aren't important to lots of people and LCDs strengths in the areas I've already discussed make it a viable option now, not 3 years from now.

Time is short in the world of technology. I'd say the 12-18 month estimate from this or the other LCD thread is more accurate for LCDs to supplant CRTs. In 3 years, the next generation of display technology will likely be coming into use.

But, unless any of us has a time machine or can see the future, this is all just so much hot air. ;)

iPC
Jan 30, 2004, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU
benpatient and you have listed the following applications:
Gaming, Digital Video watching/editing, color sensitive work in video and graphics.

Fact is, those aren't important to lots of people and LCDs strengths in the areas I've already discussed make it a viable option now, not 3 years from now.

Time is short in the world of technology. I'd say the 12-18 month estimate from this or the other LCD thread is more accurate for LCDs to supplant CRTs. In 3 years, the next generation of display technology will likely be coming into use.

But, unless any of us has a time machine or can see the future, this is all just so much hot air. ;)
All are areas Apple is trying strengthen their foothold in...

OLED will most likely be "the next big thing" the way it looks now.

We shall see.

army_guy
Jan 30, 2004, 04:55 PM
OLED will be the next thing, but not now. They have just started appearing in mobiles and will slowly emerge into monitors but its a long way to go.

Selecter
Jan 30, 2004, 05:18 PM
I am hoping the new displays will have the aluminum holes like on the front and rear of the G5 wrapped all the way around the bezel. Excellent heat reduction. Would look boss.

aswitcher
Jan 30, 2004, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by Selecter
I am hoping the new displays will have the aluminum holes like on the front and rear of the G5 wrapped all the way around the bezel. Excellent heat reduction. Would look boss.

I concur...

I really hope they change or offer options on the stand arrangement. Can't say I am sold on the current one. Lovely to see mounting points for an optional swivel tilt base, and for an arm...

djdarlek
Jan 31, 2004, 09:30 AM
Originally posted by Sir_Giggles
Dude, if you never used a Cinema Display for any period of time, you'll find just how ignorant you are. After having used my 20" Cinema Display for several weeks now, I will never go back to CRT.

I have to agree.. i jumped from a 17" CRT to a 20" at work, and its nothing short of revolutionary. the screen is exceptionally bright, when compared to my iMac and PowerBook. Its a bit chunky, but come on.. how sexy do they look! ;) and no power cable! and that cool button to turn it to sleep!

I'm hanging out for a 30" at home.

kingtj
Jan 31, 2004, 01:07 PM
Army Guy, IMHO, you're not wrong at all. I love my Apple 22" Cinema Display I bought refurbished - but I also have a 21" CRT monitor sitting right next to it (attached to a docking station for a PC laptop), and the 21" is noticeably brighter - and of course, has a faster response time too).

Personally, I find the 22" Cinema to be teriffic looking and bright enough for my needs, but I also realize I'm using it in my basement, where the lighting isn't very strong. If I had it on a desk in an office, with sunlight glaring in from a window behind me - the brightness/contrast might suddenly become a big issue.

In the end, you just gotta work with whatever suits your unique situation the best. You can't really get a wide-screen display with any normal-sized CRT monitor I know of, so that's a mark against them for some people. Price is certainly a mark in the favor of the CRT. (And as cold as it is here right now, I'm finding the heat generated by my CRT to be a huge plus! I'll change that thought when summer arrives though.)


Originally posted by army_guy
Ive tried many LCD panels including the Apple, they dont match my CRT in anyway. The larger panels are the worst 23" though the Apple is pretty good, the SONY LCD is a LOAD of C##P. Heck I even put my DADS PB 17" side by side and its not good enough.

Fix the things below then ill consider LCD's, until then iam happy.

1) Response Time. (<10ms NO panel can currently excell at this)
2) Contrast (Need pure black and pure white, not dark green and grey).
3) Dead pixels. (though I can live with 1 or 2 if there not obstructive).
4) Brightness. (Apple panels not bad on this, but just a little bit more please)
5) Colour. (Apple panels allready OK on this)

The Dreaming
Jan 31, 2004, 04:47 PM
I'm new on the boards (this is my first post) and just want to first start off by saying "Hello" to everyone!

I was reading the discussion on CRT, LCD, and OLED Displays, and just wanted to give those whom are interested a link to some interesting info on OLED (http://www.applelinks.com/articles/2003/03/20030306120229.shtml)

SAI: I switched to mac 2.5 years ago, after being a life long "PC" user. Needless to say, I'll never go back. During the many years of my self induced Windows 3.1-98ME Dementia, I spent time with a close friend who was brought up on everything Mac. I had then (1995) purchased a CD with interactive multimedia included on the disc, such as video, audio clips, live performances... It was Mac and PC compatible, but for the PC user, extensive loading and associated bs were involved. It never worked properly on my machine, but I decided to try it on his Mac. It just plain worked. -I secretly despised Apple for that. ;) I think that's the case for anyone who fears something that goes against the grain. -Jealousy too. I like to think I've done a lot of growing since then.

Thanks for letting me post that little story here... I thought it would be a good opener.

bug
Feb 2, 2004, 03:59 PM
I'm not saying this from a possition of knowledge on the subject, I'm just surprised at some of the reasons that are being given for why a CRT is better.

One person mentioned that LCDs don't have a black enough black or a white enough white in comparison to a CRT. That blows me away - I've always thought the blacks looked grey on my CRTs and if I turned down the brightness enough to make them black, then the whites were grey - even at max contrast. Granted, most of my CRTs were not the best, but even my Mitsubishi DP72plus, which received good reviews and was almsot twice as much as other 17 inches when I got it, had these problems. Its picture looks aweful next to my Samsung 191T LCD - and it is the best CRT I've worked on.

I agree the response time is an issue, but one post said that a $200 CRT would be better than the best LCD for contrast and colour - and I've got to say that my experience with many CRTs and just ONE LCD is exactly the opposite.

I've never seen a CRT with a dark enough black or a white enough white - is this really what most people are experiencing though- that they are better than LCDs in this respect? Also - I've gotta say that from both my laptops and my 19inch LCD, I've never had a dead pixel.

Like I say, I'm not saying I know monitors, just talking from personal experience and I'm really surprised from what I've read here.

army_guy
Feb 2, 2004, 05:27 PM
OK thats your experience, my experience i have not seen an LCD capable of displaying true white and true black, most of all the black they all look like a muddy dark green and yes the brightness and contrast are setup properly. Most of the time its OK but open studiomax/softimage and start viewing textures or looking at the viewports and its a mess. Gaming is even worse, try somin like Quake3/RTCW/DeusEx IW and the blacks will make you laugh.

bug
Feb 2, 2004, 06:06 PM
That's funny - I experience exactly the opposite. I tolerate the slower response time in gaming specifically because the blacks in Quake 3/RtCW/ etc are so crappy on my CRT and the colours are not bright enough (still have a low end 19inch NEC CRT and a high end Mitsubishi CRT - so I can do a side by side, as you are it seems).

What kind of CRT and LCD do you have? Just for the sake of knowing what we're dealing with... maybe your CRT is just way better than mine are.

army_guy
Feb 3, 2004, 02:57 PM
My Current CRT is a DELL 21" FD Trinitron 1600x1200, 0.24 pitch etc.., I also have a 19" version Trinitron 5 years old and blacks are still solid and colours/contrast amazing of which NO LCD can match todate ( err maybe the 15" ones nothing bigger than that).
Tried Formac, Sony and all the Apple range still no luck in what I expect, maybe the new displays will fix that but Iam not getting my hopes up.

Jookbox
Feb 5, 2004, 05:14 PM
me and all the designers i work with use cinema displays (i work for a rather large fortune 500 company). i don't do broadcast, but half of our team does and these monitors work just great for them. it's obvious army guy will argue his point till the cows come home, but for most 'normal' graphic artists, the cinema displays and lcds work just fine.

whatever benifits crts have just aren't worth it to us.

happo
Feb 7, 2004, 10:59 AM
I have reliable information about Apple display updates - they're coming next week.

I got sick of waiting and bought a 20" Cinema Display today, so Apple LCD updates are about to happen soon :D

Dahl
Feb 7, 2004, 12:16 PM
Why didn't you waiting for next week, if you were getting a new display ?

Photorun
Feb 7, 2004, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by happo
I have reliable information about Apple display updates - they're coming next week.

I got sick of waiting and bought a 20" Cinema Display today, so Apple LCD updates are about to happen soon :D

Thanks for taking one for the team Happo... this will virtually GUARANTEE new displays next week!

djbahdow01
Feb 7, 2004, 06:15 PM
Just wanted to let people know that there are no refurb moniters at the apple store online. With that there are only Dual 1.8 G5's in there as well, they don't even mention the other processors or any of the monitors, could there be an update shortly????

D0ct0rteeth
Feb 19, 2004, 11:41 AM
Anyone know anything? I sold my 20" and I am just sitting here waiting..

Come on.. anyday now...

- Doc

aswitcher
Feb 19, 2004, 10:01 PM
Wow, I had almost forgotten about this thread and how long we had been waiting for new screens...anytime now I am sure;)

abbazaba
Feb 19, 2004, 11:50 PM
Originally posted by AmigoMac
I can feel displays coming before the expo in January... dunno why, but I feel it... hoe I'm right...

...boy dont you feel stupid...

tunanut
Feb 20, 2004, 08:10 AM
I, too have been thumping my foot, twidling my fingers waiting for the new monitors. I can wait but I need a G5 to replace my tired but true PM 8600. Anyone know if the G5 ships with analog monitor cable or is this a $99.95 option?

frinky23
Feb 20, 2004, 09:08 AM
Originally posted by tunanut
I, too have been thumping my foot, twidling my fingers waiting for the new monitors. I can wait but I need a G5 to replace my tired but true PM 8600. Anyone know if the G5 ships with analog monitor cable or is this a $99.95 option?

It was included with mine.

numediaman
Feb 20, 2004, 09:39 AM
Originally posted by tunanut
I, too have been thumping my foot, twidling my fingers waiting for the new monitors. I can wait but I need a G5 to replace my tired but true PM 8600. Anyone know if the G5 ships with analog monitor cable or is this a $99.95 option?

Sad but true: you'll never buy another computer as reliable as your 8600.

wdlove
Feb 20, 2004, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by numediaman
Sad but true: you'll never buy another computer as reliable as your 8600.

That certainly sound correct. Apple is always working to improve the relaibility of their computers.

The Dreaming
Feb 20, 2004, 01:53 PM
Does anyone know the current pixel response time of Apple Displays?

army_guy
Feb 20, 2004, 02:26 PM
I think its 25-30ms, though I maybe wrong, its definetly better than the sony 23" LCD panel and thats 35ms. But the new panels should be pretty good.

0.258 pitch
1,920 x 1,200 resulution @ 16:10
500:1 contrast
250mcd brightness
16ms response time (this is higher when the panel reaches the end user)

assuming Apple use the lgphillips LCD 23" Wide LM230W02. I am worried about he response time mostly as its this that will determine whether I get a 24" CRT or a 23"+ LCD.