what PC notebook to buy?

[jefhatfield]

i have my macs at home but since i need a pc for my work and school...cisco ios, ms visual basic, etc, does anybody have any recommendations?

it does not need to be a monster multimedia or gaming machine, by today's standards, and the main thing is that it is not too heavy

i have been looking at averatec laptops...does anybody know anything about them?

[kuyu]

dell has a pc laptop for about $700. My dad has a dell and it does whatever it is pc's do fairly well. It's no mac, but.......

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by kuyu
dell has a pc laptop for about $700. My dad has a dell and it does whatever it is pc's do fairly well. It's no mac, but.......

it sounds like an option

i just wish some of the pc based languages made compilers for macs so i could stay totally on the mac side of things and it's sad that even java coders have to wait for 1.4.1 just because they use a mac...at least java compilers are available for macs

[niter]

IBM offers the best PC laptop out there. However, it will cost you. Sony has the most asthetic laptops and a lot of travel options, but they will also cost you. Gateways and Dells are cheap...but the service with Gateways are wretched.

If you want a simple system that will not cost a lot, get a Dell.

If I was not jumping PC ship and I had to buy a laptop again, I would get a Dell (just because I could not afford the IBM). Everyone who has bought a Dell that I know, has been pleased.

[kibit]

I've had 4 Sony Vaios, (I upgrade every couple years) and they've all been great, I'd recommend them in a heartbeat.

[leet1]

http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-3121_7-5072055.html?tag=cnetfd.ld

those are some good ones if you want mobility

Don't overlook compaq, they are pretty good too if your on a budget.

[kanker]

Originally posted by kuyu
dell has a pc laptop for about $700. One thing to realize about some entry level PC laptops like the Dell is that there is no video card- it shares video memory with the system. If you don't really need any graphics performance, then go ahead, but if you do need a bit, step up one model level or so and they start to incorporate video cards.

[leet1]

Originally posted by kanker
One thing to realize about some entry level PC laptops like the Dell is that there is no video card- it shares video memory with the system. If you don't really need any graphics performance, then go ahead, but if you do need a bit, step up one model level or so and they start to incorporate video cards.


My presario 2100 came with a video card that shares memory. It performes great on games like UT 2003. Havent been on one map that has slowed it down. Go Compaq :D

[hulugu]

The choices for PC laptops, while suprisingly cheap, aren't really much to be impressed by. The Dell's are heavy, but I've got one in the office and it seems okay, we haven't had any problems, the Compaqs have always been mediocre, and the Sony Vaios have been difficult little beasts. However, the IBM laptops I've seen and used have always seemed very good.
Note, Dell has made a shift in their policy regarding spyware/adware, they will not help you to remove it nor suggest where you can go to do so.

http://www.spywareinfo.com/

This strikes me as poor customer service, but I know the market won't punish them for it.

If you can swing the cash, the IBM is certainly worth it, but the Dell will do, barely.
Also, what about Virtual PC, wouldn't this suit your needs in programming?

[edesignuk]

IBM ThinkPad. /thread ;)

[Freakk123]

Do you have any cost restrictions? Also, what are you going for, desktop replacement, ultra-portable, or somewhere in between?

[cubist]

You should look for a used Thinkpad. An older laptop may not have a good battery, but you'll get more machine for your money.

Yes, Dell has a $700 (after rebate) laptop, but it's heavy, slow, and uses shared memory. They have an ultralight model (300m) which is similar to a Powerbook 12", but it costs more and has shared memory video.

Consider the VPC option. It might turn heads - and open minds - when folks see the Apple logo...

[Powerbook G5]

Fujitsu makes some nice looking and decently feature rich laptops. I've also seen some Sharp laptops with loads of features for a decent price. My sister has a Toshiba Satellite series that was about $1200 for 2.4 GHz and 512 megs RAM and she loves it besides its excessively noisy fan. For under $1000 I'd look at both Centrino and AMD laptops since they are generally thinner, cheaper, and overall better suited than the Pentium 4 versions. My roommate has a HP that has been in the shop 3 times this semester and my suitemates have a Gateway and a Dell laptop and the Dell has been (and still is) in the shop since October and the Gateway is a real heat/noise monster so I wouldn't want to recommend those as much. I'd say IBM hands down but they are too pricey if you are on a budget.

[thehuncamunca]

the dell's with centrino aren't halfway bad if you have 1500 or so, you'll get a little battery life they aren't as heavy as the other ones and aren't too too hot

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by Freakk123
Do you have any cost restrictions? Also, what are you going for, desktop replacement, ultra-portable, or somewhere in between?

it's not the cost as main factor but the fact that i have to have a pc for some of the things i need like compilers or timely released complilers if that is lucky enough to be made in version for mac os :p

[primalman]

If horsepower is not an issue, why not an iBookG4 and VirtualPC? About the same money as a decent PC notebook that won't be dead in a year.

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by primalman
If horsepower is not an issue, why not an iBookG4 and VirtualPC? About the same money as a decent PC notebook that won't be dead in a year.

i have never owned virtual pc and wondered if that would work

will cisco ios or microsoft visual basic compilers run on it?

[Gymnut]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the acronym PC stands for Personal Computer, right? A buddy of mine keeps prodding me to buy a PC. His only argument is for the "amount of games". Well his propaganda doesn't faze me and my retort is always "I already have a PC, a personal computer. Personal meaning that it is mine and last time I checked, my Power Mac G4 was a computer". He stays silent after that until the topic is brought up again whereas I simply reload my response and the game is afoot once more.

[legion]

Originally posted by jefhatfield
i have never owned virtual pc and wondered if that would work

will cisco ios or microsoft visual basic compilers run on it?

Visual Studio (as a whole) doesn't run on Macs using VirtualPC. I'm not a VB person, but VS C++ definitely doesn't. (and of course, C# and J# don't...)

[legion]

Originally posted by Gymnut
Correct me if I'm wrong but the acronym PC stands for Personal Computer, right? A buddy of mine keeps prodding me to buy a PC. His only argument is for the "amount of games". Well his propaganda doesn't faze me and my retort is always "I already have a PC, a personal computer. Personal meaning that it is mine and last time I checked, my Power Mac G4 was a computer". He stays silent after that until the topic is brought up again whereas I simply reload my response and the game is afoot once more.

Yes but the "PC" delineation occurred a long time ago and is now supported, rightly or wrongly, by both sides of the fence where PC=="IBM compatible x86"

I, too, am not a fan of such a broad stoke, but today, your argument doesn't hold much merit (unless you're willing to sway the majority of the user bases for both platforms.)

[Gymnut]

Originally posted by legion
Yes but the "PC" delineation occurred a long time ago and is now supported, rightly or wrongly, by both sides of the fence where PC=="IBM compatible x86"

I, too, am not a fan of such a broad stoke, but today, your argument doesn't hold much merit (unless you're willing to sway the majority of the user bases for both platforms.)

Sorry to hijack this thread but, who is this all knowing governing body that defines what a "PC" is? Breaking down the acronym PC dicates one's own computer and last time I checked, Apple built computers and be damned I'm the one signing the check to pay off Apple's loan. The term PC is open ended and is rightly so open to interpretation.

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by legion
Visual Studio (as a whole) doesn't run on Macs using VirtualPC. I'm not a VB person, but VS C++ definitely doesn't. (and of course, C# and J# don't...)

thanks for the info

i could have saved some money and just got virtualPC for the two macs i already use, but i guess i will have to update my old PC laptop or when it gives out...my teacher friend, who does command line coding (no gui or graphics) still uses his old 486 for his work from home and post doctorate research stuff...and oh yeah, surfing the net for non work realted topics:p

[maclamb]

I woudl suggest the dell becuase they can offer enxt day on site service.
We loved the SOny Vaios, but stopped buying becuiase repairs could take upwards fo two weeks.

[hulugu]

Originally posted by Gymnut
Sorry to hijack this thread but, who is this all knowing governing body that defines what a "PC" is? Breaking down the acronym PC dicates one's own computer and last time I checked, Apple's built computers and be damned I'm the one signing the check to pay off Apple's loan. The term PC is open ended and is rightly so open to interpretation.

PC is a big catchall, I agree and I think it came from IBM compatible PC, which then got shortened to PC. Trouble is Wintel, Windows-based PC are both hard to say. I can easily say Mac and people understand what I am talking about, but the Intel/Windows/IBM x86 genus doesn't have a convenient short-hand except for PC.
I try to use Wintel versus Mac.

And now back to your regulary scheduled programming.

[Powerbook G5]

Wintel doesn't exactly work if you are dealing with a PC with an AMD processor or one that has Linux on it, though, so it is much more accurate to just say PC rather than Wintel.

[NusuniAdmin]

Originally posted by legion
Visual Studio (as a whole) doesn't run on Macs using VirtualPC. I'm not a VB person, but VS C++ definitely doesn't. (and of course, C# and J# don't...)

What are you talking about, I have the whole microsoft studio on my windows 2k prof virtual pc and it works fine.

[legion]

Originally posted by NusuniAdmin
What are you talking about, I have the whole microsoft studio on my windows 2k prof virtual pc and it works fine.

VS.net??? The .net framework necessary for current implementations of VS will not install through virtualpc on Macs.

If it does, what machine are you running?

[NusuniAdmin]

Originally posted by legion
VS.net??? The .net framework necessary for current implementations of VS will not install through virtualpc on Macs.

If it does, what machine are you running?

Oh no, not .net, its studio 6, sorry for the miscommunication.

[legion]

Originally posted by NusuniAdmin
Oh no, not .net, its studio 6, sorry for the miscommunication.

Ahh, good to know.. I thought I must have missed something because I've tried the VS.net install on pretty much all the Macs I have available to me and never managed to get it to work.

VS6 is now 3 versions back with VS.net having major changes in features (different warning flags, watch windows, debug options, etc.; it's so different that most books have to have 2 different instructional explainations on how to go about doing many operations) and implementations/UI (besides the whole ".net" framework that I really don't take advantage of.) There really aren't that many changes between VS.net and the current VS.net 2003.

[jefhatfield]

all you guys have really been helpful

i suck at programming and if i had to muscle through issues with virualpc on an ibook which would be slow and a difficult or even impossible insall of the .net programming suite, it would make school that much more difficult

for the studies part, i will get that pc laptop replacement when i need it...and of course, for using as a troubleshooting mechanism for my tech clients

i wish when the woz basically, for all intents and purposes, invented the pc, that he should have patented the term personal computer, leaving ibm no clear option what to call their machine...that little gesture may have changed things enough and we all would be using macs and not having to have this cross platform discussion ;)

[macrumors12345]

Originally posted by niter
Gateways and Dells are cheap...but the service with Gateways are wretched.



Ditto for Dells (horrible service). They have farmed out all of their consumer tech support to India...my friend has a Dell laptop, which has had many problems (no surprise, being a PC and a Dell), and their tech support ppl have been totally useless.

IBM is the best, but you pay. Between Dell and Gateway...I think it got slightly better reliability ratings in the PC Magazine survey...but both will be kind of cheap and not have good service. Avoid Compaq like the plague - they have terrible reliability ratings, and I know someone who had a Compaq and had to have it replaced like 4 times (I assume HP is bad too). You might want to take a look at Fujitsu or some other company that uses Mobile Athlon processors...they're not great processors, but they're better than the P4-M (as is pretty much anything), and cheaper than the Pentium M.

[leet1]

Originally posted by macrumors12345

Avoid Compaq like the plague - they have terrible reliability ratings, and I know someone who had a Compaq and had to have it replaced like 4 times (I assume HP is bad too).

Compaq = HP They are fine products, I own one. They have recently gone through changes, and those changes have all been for the better.


Like Apple products, sometimes there are faulty products. The person you know must have had some really bad luck, lol.

[physicsnerd]

I know a couple people who have Toshiba Satellite Laptops and love them. I've never actually owned one but they're worth looking into.

[brianellisrules]

RE: DELL LAPTOPS

About a year ago, we ordered Dell laptops for a bunch of people in the office. The models ranged from middle of the road to ultra-high end.... Out of the 5-6 people who got them, all but one have had major problems. Mine took a dump on me 2 weeks ago. Not cool.

[macrumors12345]

Originally posted by leet1
The person you know must have had some really bad luck, lol.

Maybe. But that doesn't change the fact the Compaq got an either a D or an F (forget which one) in the laptop reliability survey by PC Mag.

[leet1]

Originally posted by macrumors12345
Maybe. But that doesn't change the fact the Compaq got an either a D or an F (forget which one) in the laptop reliability survey by PC Mag.

Recent survey?

[hulugu]

Originally posted by leet1
Recent survey?

Here's the link: PC Mag Survey (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,364590,00.asp)

There's the article and a great .PDF that is unfortunately too big to attach here.

For Jeff, IBM appears to be your best bet.

[leet1]

Originally posted by hulugu
Here's the link:

Thats from July 11, 2002....not very recent at all.

[hulugu]

Granted, I hadn't noticed that. But, that doesn't negate the information, at the time Compaq built the worst computers they surveyed for, taking surveys for what they are worth, it does tell us something about the consumer experience in relation to more than a single person. Anything can be proved with anecdotal evidence, like Windows is stable ;)

But, I did see a consumer reports article earlier this year that stated Compaq as one of the worst. I tried to find the Consumer Reports article, but I don't feel like spending 4.95.
PC Mag appears to have abandoned the consumer version of their reports, for what it's worth the reviewers like one of the new HP models, but this seems dubious at best considering that the HP-Compaq merger was a merger between an E/E and a C/B+. I would very much doubt that this merger created enough of a synergy to remove the kind of poor build-quality these reports show. Maybe in another year, but in my personal experience Compaq has always sucked, their desktop's BIOS is an absolute piece of junk.
leet1 I know you like your Compaqs, you keep mentioning them, but they don't seem to have a high quality overall, hence I wouldn't suggest a machine I wouldn't buy to another person.

[ethernet76]

Originally posted by hulugu
Granted, I hadn't noticed that. But, that doesn't negate the information, at the time Compaq built the worst computers they surveyed for, taking surveys for what they are worth, it does tell us something about the consumer experience in relation to more than a single person. Anything can be proved with anecdotal evidence, like Windows is stable ;)

But, I did see a consumer reports article earlier this year that stated Compaq as one of the worst. I tried to find the Consumer Reports article, but I don't feel like spending 4.95.
PC Mag appears to have abandoned the consumer version of their reports, for what it's worth the reviewers like one of the new HP models, but this seems dubious at best considering that the HP-Compaq merger was a merger between an E/E and a C/B+. I would very much doubt that this merger created enough of a synergy to remove the kind of poor build-quality these reports show. Maybe in another year, but in my personal experience Compaq has always sucked, their desktop's BIOS is an absolute piece of junk.
leet1 I know you like your Compaqs, you keep mentioning them, but they don't seem to have a high quality overall, hence I wouldn't suggest a machine I wouldn't buy to another person.

Compaqs are probably the worst computers you can buy right now. Earned that position since Packard Bell died. Might as well use the extra money you might use to buy youself some sturdy rope.

As for the Ut2k3 thing. I can play it on my 675 p3 with 256 and a 64mb 3dfx card. All ancient parts. I'd be thoughly surprised it if made any p4 computer stutter assuming it had at least at 256 ram.

[leet1]

Originally posted by ethernet76
Compaqs are probably the worst computers you can buy right now. Earned that position since Packard Bell died. Might as well use the extra money you might use to buy youself some sturdy rope.


Ever heard of Gateway? Nuff said. lol

If you buy a Compaq presario and don't like it, Send me a PM and I can get someone to buy it off you :D

Heres two nice reviews of it.

http://shop.bizrate.com/marketplace/product_info/reviews__cat_id--462,prod_id--7376969.html

Use Eopinions and bizrate.com to help you get user opinions on different ones. I wouldn't really go by on solely what people have said here(especially since this is a mac forum :p )

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by leet1
Ever heard of Gateway? Nuff said. lol

If you buy a Compaq presario and don't like it, Send me a PM and I can get someone to buy it off you :D

Heres two nice reviews of it.

http://shop.bizrate.com/marketplace/product_info/reviews__cat_id--462,prod_id--7376969.html

Use Eopinions and bizrate.com to help you get user opinions on different ones. I wouldn't really go by on solely what people have said here(especially since this is a mac forum :p )

the four year old laptop i have now getting ready for replacement is a compaq presario 1200 series

not well received, as i have read in reviews then, but the presario model as a whole has improved greatly...thank you, hp...but the dell, sony, toshiba, and ibm's seem the better machine and they all look pretty nice...except for ibm who doesn't put a dime into their industrial design but must make up for it in the insides of the machine ;)

[legion]

Originally posted by jefhatfield
except for ibm who doesn't put a dime into their industrial design but must make up for it in the insides of the machine ;)

FYI

IBM Thinkpads are part of the permanent collection at the Museum of Modern Art in New York. (so I guess someone disagrees with your design critique...)

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by legion
FYI

IBM Thinkpads are part of the permanent collection at the Museum of Modern Art in New York. (so I guess someone disagrees with your design critique...)

i love to read laptop magazine and in the last several years, the most highly rated laptop besides dell for all price points has been the ibm models...so for funtionality and reliability, ibm is top in their book

i just hate their looks, but i know that for a portable, that is really the last thing i am concerned about

now if apple's machines ran on windows, but still brought their famous ruggedness and reliability to the market, plus it's untouchable industrial design, it would put ibm to shame and i am sure laptop magazine would rate apple laptops better than the dells

but the reality is, apple inc does not make machines for the wintel market, so many out there will never know what we all do about the great strength, reliability, and consistency we mac users have known for many years...sometimes our enthusiasm have made others on the outside think that we are some sort of cult...but strange as it is, there have been some fools out there who have managed to make apple inc their everything and thus making macs a cult for them:p

[brianellisrules]

my dell laptop (precision m50) just took a dump on itself again. second time in 2 weeks.