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arn
May 13, 2002, 10:13 AM
Newsfactor reports (http://www.newsfactor.com/perl/story/17712.html) on some developments from IBM regarding the PPC. As well as lays out some plans for both IBM and Motorola:

IBM's PowerPC roadmap, which is completely devoid of any reference to the AltiVec acceleration unit, calls for chip architecture to exceed the 2 GHz barrier in the coming year.

While keeping mum on specifics, the company did say that its upcoming chips will be multi-core, meaning that several processor cores can be arranged on a single chip. This technology allows the possibility of four-processor or even eight-processor configurations.

Motorola also has said it plans to exceed the 2 GHz barrier in the coming year and is calling for the same I/O improvements and pipeline upgrades offered by IBM.

However, Motorola does not intend to move its PowerPC line to the .13 micron manufacturing process, which IBM already uses, until it ships the G5 processor.

JtheLemur
May 13, 2002, 10:33 AM
Sounds like that rules out G5s for MWNY...

That said, I really hope whatever G4s they intro scream - dual 1.4 GHz does sound quite nice, but I hope there's a new mobo and CASE to go with it! I'm tired of El Capitan! Functional yes, but BORING after more than three years!

-- justin

Backtothemac
May 13, 2002, 10:48 AM
Well, this is postive in the sense that they are talking the over 2 GHZ barrier. All in all the only thing that is not good is them going to .13 microns until the G5. As far is that is concerned, not until, next year.

croft
May 13, 2002, 11:03 AM
See story from April 22nd

http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0204/22.ibmmot.php

sparkleytone
May 13, 2002, 11:04 AM
i dont quite understand why this rules out the g5 anytime soon. you guys are saying that it means no g5 this yr. all they said was that they are not moving to .13 until they SHIP the g5s. This doesn't really mean that the g5s aren't coming, and in fact may actually be a hint at g5s really soon, being that most semiconductor manufacturers are now using this process.

Mr. Anderson
May 13, 2002, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by arn


Does anyone know how the speed will compare against a multi core chip with 2 processor cores and a dual processor - like what's currently available?

Regardless, though, to have one CPU with 8 processor cores would scream and be a viable solution to gaining performance on the Mac platform, as long as it doesn't cost as much as 8 processors.

yanny
May 13, 2002, 11:19 AM
I remember over at appleinsider, there is a thread concerning the G5 development, and it has been rumored that the G5 project was kill by Apple over a year ago for unknown reason, and the next chip after the G4 will be manufactured by IBM with SIMD unit similar to AltiVec. And now this bit of news surface just before the announcement of the rackmount server...hmm

What will it use?? But bear in mind that it will make no sense at all if Apple announce a G4 successor tommorrow in the rackmount server since everyone will then know the new chip is coming at NYMW. That will harm the PM G4's sales drastically. Unless, Apple have another suprise for us....

If that's the case, what won't Apple do in NYMW??

I am confused.....

Or nothing special, just G4 server tommorrow with DDR support....

God bless Apple if they only have a G4 rackmount server...

Pants
May 13, 2002, 11:28 AM
However, Motorola does not intend to move its PowerPC line to the .13 micron manufacturing process, which IBM already uses, until it ships the G5 processor.

this is all very well, but the article *directly* beneath it (on the front page)seems to suggest that this may not be so far off.... :) compare and contrast....

'According to Motorola sources, a tweaked version of the Apollo 7450 G4, the 7470, will be ready for volume production shortly after the end of Q2, in time for a summer ramp. The 7470 will be manufactured on a 0.13 micron process, allowing for a smaller die size with room for 512K of L2 cache, and support up to 4MB of DDR-SDRAM L3 cache. '

arn
May 13, 2002, 12:16 PM
Originally posted by Pants


this is all very well, but the article *directly* beneath it (on the front page)seems to suggest that this may not be so far off.... :) compare and contrast....

'According to Motorola sources, a tweaked version of the Apollo 7450 G4, the 7470, will be ready for volume production shortly after the end of Q2, in time for a summer ramp. The 7470 will be manufactured on a 0.13 micron process, allowing for a smaller die size with room for 512K of L2 cache, and support up to 4MB of DDR-SDRAM L3 cache. '

yeah... what can you do.... :)

you take what you get... and see what washes out...

arn

pimentoLoaf
May 13, 2002, 12:49 PM
Question is, if Apple brought out a 1-GHz G3 iBook, would they produce it with a 12" screen?

It's nice having a really portable unit; the 14" is a bit too big for travelling (for my tastes).

teabgs
May 13, 2002, 01:00 PM
Maybe they'll split to product lines with Moto making the consumer chips and IBM making the pro and servers...this way the pros will get the multi core processors and the consumers will stay with the current trend. This could make the consumer line more affordable possibly...?

JtheLemur
May 13, 2002, 01:33 PM
They really neeeeed to drop Moto. For crying out loud, they're a cell-phone maker! Jacks-of-all-trades are rarely exceptional at a certain thing - look at FirstClass versus Eudora for example!

They should just use IBM. Use a computer company that makes computers and computer PARTS, not cellphones, pagers, modems, etc.... =)

IBM is great.

-- justin

ftaok
May 13, 2002, 01:39 PM
Originally posted by JtheLemur
They really neeeeed to drop Moto. For crying out loud, they're a cell-phone maker! Jacks-of-all-trades are rarely exceptional at a certain thing - look at FirstClass versus Eudora for example!

They should just use IBM. Use a computer company that makes computers and computer PARTS, not cellphones, pagers, modems, etc.... =)

IBM is great.

-- justin FACT: Motorola is the first company to ship a 1 GHZ chip based on the PPC architecture.

FACT: IBM has been laying people off. 8,000 more were just announced.

IBM isn't the end-all and be-all for Apple.

BTW, what's the reference about with FirstClass and Eudora? I don't use either. Can you clarify?

JtheLemur
May 13, 2002, 01:47 PM
FACT: Motorola is the first company to ship a 1 GHZ chip based on the PPC architecture.

FACT: IBM has been laying people off. 8,000 more were just announced.


True true... but still, it does seem like IBM has much better products - POWER4 chips for example... I should have said that Motorola was stuck at around 500MHz for WAY too long, which is true. =)

Anyway, the reference: First Class is a big system for e-mail, calendars, contacts, chat, and so forth. Clients connect to a main server, which is linked to the net. Schools are big on it, for example - potentially, it's quite convenient having all that info in one place! But many many people feel that, while it does get the job done, it really doesn't do any ONE of those things REALLY good - every part of it is lackluster.

Of course, on the OTHER hand, there are many people that swear by Eudora, and wouldn't give it up for anything else. I use Entourage myself, but can say that I'd be using Eudora if I had to choose something else. It's small, fast, and gets the job done.

That was the reference. Ta da! =)

Kid Red
May 13, 2002, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by Pants


this is all very well, but the article *directly* beneath it (on the front page)seems to suggest that this may not be so far off.... :) compare and contrast....

'According to Motorola sources, a tweaked version of the Apollo 7450 G4, the 7470, will be ready for volume production shortly after the end of Q2, in time for a summer ramp. The 7470 will be manufactured on a 0.13 micron process, allowing for a smaller die size with room for 512K of L2 cache, and support up to 4MB of DDR-SDRAM L3 cache. '


mmm, so the 7470 is the G5(?) and will be ready to go into production after this summer? So then G5's on .13m for MWSF at (probably)1.6ghz, and Apollo G4s up to 1.4ghz at MWNY. mmm, interesting.

ftaok
May 13, 2002, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by JtheLemur


True true... but still, it does seem like IBM has much better products - POWER4 chips for example... I should have said that Motorola was stuck at around 500MHz for WAY too long, which is true. =)

As far as I know, the POWER4 chip is not something that Apple would be interested in using. It's pretty costly.

Sure, IBM seems to be better than Motorola at progressing their chips (although I have yet to see the fabled 1 Ghz Sahara G3). And IBM may be the one that gets to supply the G5 to Apple. But here's the kicker. Looking at Apple's market share, both Motorola and IBM have little incentive to produce faster (clocked) chips. Apple is not the biggest customer of PPC chips for either MOT or IBM. That means that the development of these chips will be driven by Nintendo (I'm assuming that it's Nintendo) and Cisco. If Apple's need co-incide with either Nintendo's or Cisco's, then everyone's happy. If not, well, who knows.

Sometimes, your worst enemy is you.

BTW, Qualcomm makes Eudora. They also make cell phone chips.

johnpaul191
May 13, 2002, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by Kid Red



mmm, so the 7470 is the G5(?) and will be ready to go into production after this summer? So then G5's on .13m for MWSF at (probably)1.6ghz, and Apollo G4s up to 1.4ghz at MWNY. mmm, interesting.

question is, will the 7470 be tagged "G5" or will it wait for the 7500 series. technically doesn't matter, the "G" names are Apple's marketing tag. the being said... i think tomorrow might give us a peek into the next G4 desktops. then again it depends on what they are gunning for in rackmounts. there is a market today for G4 towers gutted and/or retrofitted into rackmount editions. if they made a rackmount version of the current machines in an efficient rack case, i think it would sell. they also might release somehting with faster RAM, zippier processor chips and whatever else. it might be safe to think the upcoming technology will trickle down to the next revision of desktop pro machines. anyway, less than 24 hours to go.

eddit
May 13, 2002, 03:27 PM
Originally posted by arn
IBM's PowerPC roadmap, which is completely devoid of any reference to the AltiVec acceleration unit, calls for chip architecture to exceed the 2 GHz barrier in the coming year.


According to IBM's roadmap, their G5 includes a SIMD, which (you guessed it) is what AltiVec is!

So, I wouldn't put too much trust on this article:D :D :D

Edwin

j763
May 13, 2002, 06:44 PM
If Apple dosen't come out with a G5 -- they're going to be in the $#!+ with their pro customers... AMD chips smash motorolas' in pretty much everything (photoshop, premier etc.)


Motorola is a ********** cell phone manafacturer and they make the most $#!+ty phones on the market... And soon that'll be true for their chips too if they don't get their act together...

thjum
May 13, 2002, 07:34 PM
Motorola isn`t a telephone company it`s a chipmaker, they make more chips than IBM and I think even more than Intel. allthough most of them are for the embedded market and the problem is that the powerpc is mostly designed for this market. BTW I even think that the AMD chips are produced in Motorola fabs for the european market.

thjum
May 13, 2002, 07:35 PM
ho yes, it`s true their phones really suck

ftaok
May 13, 2002, 09:09 PM
Originally posted by j763
If Apple dosen't come out with a G5 -- they're going to be in the $#!+ with their pro customers... AMD chips smash motorolas' in pretty much everything (photoshop, premier etc.)


Motorola is a ********** cell phone manafacturer and they make the most $#!+ty phones on the market... And soon that'll be true for their chips too if they don't get their act together... I happen to think that Motorola makes great cell phones. I have a digital Star Tac that's been through more than it's fair share of abuse. And it still keeps working great. A 20 foot fall can't stop it. I can't say that for some Nokia 5100 series phones. Those things break when you're using standard belt clips.

As for AMD chips smoking Motorola chips. Hey, I can't deny that the AMD chips are fast. No argument. But the fact remains that you can't run OS X on ANY AMD chip. So that pretty much eliminates it from my shopping list.

NeXTCube
May 14, 2002, 10:40 AM
It seems like once a day, there's some new thread on one of these sites that focuses on how we, as Mac users, are being ripped off by Apple, or Motorola, or IBM, or whoever because our computers aren't as fast as they could be/should be/we want them to be.

The reason that Motorola focuses on the embedded market is that they can make money there. Pure and simple. If they were able to make money on processors for desktop machines, that's where they'd be focusing their efforts. Even AMD has trouble making money on desktop processors! (see http://www.amd.com/us-en/Corporate/InvestorRelations/0,,51_306_643_5666,00.html).