A complaint about Quatz Extreame

[Mr Jobs]

I want to make a complaint about Apple computer and their products

Because my 16MB ATI RAGE does not support the resolution of 2048x2048 and my friends 32MB GeForce3 does.

I want to complain that my ATI RAGE does not run Quake faster then my friends 32MB GeForce3…hey what’s the deal here?

I want to complain that my consumer iBook that I bought last week does not run as fast as friends PowerMac which he bought last year…hey I brought mine one year later then his, mine should be faster…damn you Apple.

I want to complain that my iBook’s that I bought last week G3 chip does not take advantage of the Alti-Vec in most new applications…it’s not fair, my friends PowerMac G4 does and it a year old.

I want apple to hold back QE and release in one year later so that way when they release it, all of Apples current hardware would support it…because if I cant have it no one can have it.

I don’t care if I paid less for a consumer product I want it to perform just as much and just as fast as my friends pro product which he paid two to three times more then me.

Damn you Apple…Damn you:D :D :D :D :D

[Paolo]

Infact I'm going to go one step further... apple why don't you just stop making stuff... because then we can all buy the best stuff and everyones happy, no one's mac ever gets out dated... it'll be an Apple golden age

[Backtothemac]

Yea, real funny if in fact you had just shelled out 3,000$ and two weeks later your system isn't enough for the recommended requirements. I do agree that Apple must move forward, and sometimes there are growing pains, but man, you don't have to be so harsh about it.

[Mr Jobs]

No, Backtothemac what you don’t understand is QE is a totally new technology, it’s never been done before in any operating system which is why in need the latest and the greatest hardware.

And the latest and greatest hardware can only be found on current pro products not the consumer products, why cant people understand that. There is a reason why pro machines are usually 2 to 3 times more in cost then the consumer line up…which has last years pro technology. So don’t think just because you just brought you consumer iBook today, it will have today’s technology in it.

Now if my $3000 powermac which I just brought didn’t support the current OS X minimum requirements then I’d me mad. But I’m tanking about QE here nothing else, I pis*sed off at the people who are moaning about the fact that their iBooks they just brought doesn’t support QE.

[Backtothemac]

Originally posted by Mr Jobs
No, Backtothemac what you don’t understand is QE is a totally new technology, it’s never been done before in any operating system which is why in need the latest and the greatest hardware.

And the latest and greatest hardware can only be found on current pro products not the consumer products, why can people understand that. There is a reason why pro machines are usually 2 to 3 times more in cost then the consumer line up…it has last years pro technology. So don’t think just because you just brought you consumer iBook, it will have today’s technology in it.

Now if my $3000 powermac which I just brought didn’t support the current OS X minimum requirements then I’d me mad. But I’m tanking about QE here nothing else, I pis*sed off at the people who are moaning about the fact that their iBooks they just brought doesn’t support QE.

Hey, I hear you, and I agree on some of what you said, but the fact is that the iMac, and eMac both have the min. requirements, and they are consumer line. The fact is that Apple has known about this for a long time, and some people are upset over the min requirements because they just bought their systems. There is no reason for you to be pissed about it, just let people vent. That is all they are doing. They are not attacking you, Apple, or anyone you know, so just let em B*tch.

:D

[Mr Jobs]

Backtothemac

Maybe it’s just me but I hate people who moan about silly things, (and maybe I’m doing it here myself) especially when is stops us moving forward.

But in relay to the eMac and iMac have the supported cards and not the iBook. Well the Powermac has a 64MB GeForce 4 the PowerBooks only 32MB Radeon, Desktops always had the upper hand then their laptop counterparts in hardware…that’s the norm.

[Hemingray]

Originally posted by Mr Jobs
Now if my $3000 powermac which I just brought didn’t support the current OS X minimum requirements then I’d me mad. But I’m tanking about QE here nothing else, I pis*sed off at the people who are moaning about the fact that their iBooks they just brought doesn’t support QE.

I think they have a perfectly valid reason for b*tching. How would you like it if you bought an iBook and find out that the next version of OS X can't fully utilize the hardware you paid for?

Me on the other hand, owning a first model G4, I have no valid reason to b*tch. I know my hardware's outdated (PCI graphics, no less!). So while I'm not happy about it, I understand that my computer is going on three years old.

[arn]

Originally posted by Hemingray


I think they have a perfectly valid reason for b*tching. How would you like it if you bought an iBook and find out that the next version of OS X can't fully utilize the hardware you paid for?


Well, it's a fine line...

Would people be happier if Apple didn't released Quartz Extreme? and just stayed with regular Quartz?

It's not like it doesn't work at all on older Macs... it just defaults to "standard" Quartz

arn

[Hemingray]

Originally posted by arn
Well, it's a fine line...

Exactly... the key is to not be one of those unlucky people who buy just before a big breakthrough. :D

I learned my lesson good back in the first days of the G4 PCI...

[Mr Jobs]

Hemingray

I wouldn’t complain if my iBook that I just brought today didn’t support all the latest features, and I’ve already answered that…read my first post or maybe you didn’t have enough sense to understand it in the first place that’s why your asking me that stupid question.

Well you know that they say if at first you don’t succeed, try, try, try…

p.s your the kind of people i'm moaning about

[Inhale420]

i'll take your mac since it's so obsolete. i guess the spoiled kids whine the most. i can't even dream to own a new mac.

g4 400 here. for at least a couple more years and i'm fine with it.

[alex_ant]

Originally posted by Mr Jobs
Maybe it’s just me but I hate people who moan about silly things, (and maybe I’m doing it here myself) especially when is stops us moving forward.

But in relay to the eMac and iMac have the supported cards and not the iBook. Well the Powermac has a 64MB GeForce 4 the PowerBooks only 32MB Radeon, Desktops always had the upper hand then their laptop counterparts in hardware…that’s the norm.
Nobody wants to stop you from moving forward. They just don't want to get left behind when you do. I think the complaints are for the most part quite valid. ONE WEEK before the Quartz Extreme announcement, Apple's top of the line PRO laptop - the 667MHz PowerBook G4 - did not meet the QE requirements.

I bought my PBG4 last Christmas, so it was 5 months old when QE was announced. Yet I still feel a bit bitter, not because I don't want Apple to move forward, but because I paid $2300 to be left in the dust so soon. I can only imagine how the 667MHz PowerBook owners feel - Apple made approximately a $1k net profit off of each of them, and only gave them 16MB of video memory in the top-end machine even when the Mobility Radeon supported 32MB and adding 32MB of video memory to the unit would have cost Apple $20 at most. I mean, the video memory should have at least been upgradeable...

Alex

[Backtothemac]

Originally posted by Inhale420
i'll take your mac since it's so obsolete. i guess the spoiled kids whine the most. i can't even dream to own a new mac.

g4 400 here. for at least a couple more years and i'm fine with it.

Well, first off, no one is crying about anything. Just having an intelligent discussion about a topic that we feel strongly about. As for sparking the match, not all of us are spoiled kids. In fact, if you look at our bios, most are hard working professionals, or students. Don't give yourself a rep here as a flamethrower.

[Mr Jobs]

alex_ant

I take it you’re on of those who I’ve labelled ‘QE-Moaners’,

You see you like to moan so much you lose you sense of logic…why don’t you cheek the specs on the apple web site http://www.apple.com/macosx/newversion/ and you will see that your stupid 5 month old TiBook which you paid $2300 will run QE. Believe me $2300 is nothing we pay way more here in the UK so be happy with what you have.

“*nVidia: GeForce2MX, GeForce3, GeForce4 Ti, GeForce4 or GeForce4MX. ATI: any AGP Radeon card. 32MB VRAM recommended for optimum performance.”

Notice the words “any AGP Radeon card”. If you people (QE-moaners) will stop moaning for once please…Be happy with what you have because the man who looks into the mirror and sees nothing but himself is the most happiest, remember there are people who would love to own a TiBook QE or no QE.

No one has even come with even one creditable argument against my opinion...why, read my signature. Because what i say IS

[alex_ant]

Originally posted by Mr Jobs
You see you like to moan so much you lose you sense of logic…why don’t you cheek the specs on the apple web site http://www.apple.com/macosx/newversion/ and you will see that your stupid 5 month old TiBook which you paid $2300 will run QE. Believe me $2300 is nothing we pay way more here in the UK so be happy with what you have.

“*nVidia: GeForce2MX, GeForce3, GeForce4 Ti, GeForce4 or GeForce4MX. ATI: any AGP Radeon card. 32MB VRAM recommended for optimum performance.”

Notice the words “any AGP Radeon card”.
I noticed those words. I also noticed the words "32MB VRAM recommended for optimum performance." That applies to all cards. My Radeon, and the Radeon of the buyer of the 667MHz TiBook three weeks ago, both have 16MB, and it is not upgradeable.
If you people (QE-moaners) will stop moaning for once please…Be happy with what you have because the man who looks into the mirror and sees nothing but himself is the most happiest, remember there are people who would love to own a TiBook QE or no QE.
Okay, so basically regardless of what I paid for my computer, regardless of when I bought it, regardless of the fact that it is a pro-level machine with non-upgradeable VRAM, I should "be happy with it because there are people who would love to own a TiBook QE or no QE," nevermind the fact that I could have purchased an Intel laptop with the same performance for half the price, and nevermind the fact that it and others like it - machines incapable of running QE optimally - were sold literally up to the week before QE was announced. I don't understand.

No one has even come with even one creditable argument against my opinion...why, read my signature. Because what i say IS
Wow. Everyone always says Steve Jobs is an asshole. I guess they're right!

Alex

[Mr Jobs]

Originally posted by alex_ant

I noticed those words. I also noticed the words "32MB VRAM recommended for optimum performance." That applies to all cards. My Radeon, and the Radeon of the buyer of the 667MHz TiBook three weeks ago, both have 16MB, and it is not upgradeable.

[/b]
Okay, so basically regardless of what I paid for my computer, regardless of when I bought it, regardless of the fact that it is a pro-level machine with non-upgradeable VRAM, I should "be happy with it because there are people who would love to own a TiBook QE or no QE," nevermind the fact that I could have purchased an Intel laptop with the same performance for half the price, and nevermind the fact that it and others like it - machines incapable of running QE optimally - were sold literally up to the week before QE was announced. I don't understand.

[/b]
Wow. Everyone always says Steve Jobs is an asshole. I guess they're right!

Alex [/B]

Yes your 16MB wouldn't perform as good as one with a 32MB, just like a 32MB graphics card wouldn't perform as good as a 64MB, Just as your 667Mhx TiG4 wont perform as good as the 800Mhz TiG4 so what’s you point. Do you thing people with 32MB Geforce3 should complain because the 64MB Geforce4 will perform QE better then their 32MB GF3.

I would like to see you try and purchase a Wintel Laptop as powerful as a TiBook. A 2Ghz Pentium 4 is as good as a 800Mhz G4. but did you know that the laptops don’t use the normal P4 but a mobility chip which is almost half the power then it desktop counter-part. The 800Mhz G4 would Pis* on the P4 2Ghz Mobility. Plus show me a wintel laptop which is 1” thin with built-in CDR/DVD, wireless networking, 32MB Radeon, Gigabit Ethernet, Wide-screen made using CP1 pure Titanium. Never mind all the hardware, show me a Wintel laptop which last longer then 2.5 hours even on battery saving mode, none. Not ver mobile if you laptop wont come on. Go home and do your research, before you argue with someone who is technically more advanced and knowledgeable the you.

QE was only announced not released, moreover it was announced to it's developers not the public. QE still has a good 3-4 months before release. It nothing like apple released a software that doesn't work on it's hardware a week ago.

Who said anything about 'Steve Jobs' Apple CEO...again shows you lack of intelligence dumba**, There are millions of 'Smiths', 'Harry' and 'Jones' in this world where in the blue hell do you see the word 'Steve' in my name.

Dumb Wank**s like you should not be allowed out

[zed]

ive got a powerbook G3 333, how am I supposed to run Quartz Extreme??

4 years is just too soon to upgrade, im sorry but come on... jeez




actually, hopefully ill be able to upgrade soon since im about to graduate, and possibly get a real job that pays real money. :)

[Paolo]

Look why are you bothering telling everyone else that wasted you money on a low end consumer product, and you wish it to run the OS not designed from it!
This brings about the rumors sites, if you had of been reading there was alot of speculation about OS 10.2, and if you had half a brain, then you would have thought, 'maybe I should wait and see what OS 10.2 is like before I go and buy the hardware'
But here's a good suggestion, why don't you buy all the software that's out NOW wait two years, then get the Hardware for it and it'll run reaaaaalllly smoothly and then you don't have to complain about anything!!!!!!!!!!

[Geert]

Originally posted by Inhale420
i'll take your mac since it's so obsolete. i guess the spoiled kids whine the most. i can't even dream to own a new mac.

g4 400 here. for at least a couple more years and i'm fine with it.

amen to that. G3 450, and you don't hear me complain.
I'm also looking up to use this system for at least another year, before I can even start thinking of upgrading.
I don't care, my mac is a great machine, and the user experience I get from it, exceeds the winblows at work with a couple hundred lightyears.....

[jipper]

hey guys and gals,
I agree with most of what has been said here, and can see both sides of the argument (note: I am not usually a fence-sitter).
I too find it aggrevating when people whinge for the sake of whinging.
But, c'mon guys you must feel like the people that have just bought a new TiBook deserve to be able to run OS X at full potential. It seems that apple have really prodded some sharp objects up these guys' anal canals.
As for the statement about being happy to own a TiBook--they are, and I'm sure you would be too--but it's hardly too much to ask for them to be up to date with upcoming OS releases at least 6 months from purchase date. I'm sure if YOU owned a TiBook you'd be whinging too.
I have a 300MhZ Blueberry iBook, I'm grateful it can run OS X at all. So no complaints for me, but TiBook users--- I feel your pain!!!
Bring on the Jag...
Tim.

[Rower_CPU]

Opinions are what they are...and nothing more. One person's belief doesn't make it real in this world.

That said, if you want to call me a QE-moaner (guess what my sig means), go ahead. The first impression given by Apple is that they are saying to customers "We've got new software coming out, now buy new hardware to make it perform at its best". I'm sorry, but that's the kind of stuff MS gets in trouble for.

Many of us Mac faithful expected at least a System Preferences pane to let us turn off the the eye candy to make OS X run smoother on older systems. Did they choose to give us that option? At this time, it appears not. It looks like they have chosen instead to use hardware acceleration to gain performance increases. As far as the technology behind QE (or QuartzGL, as some call it) goes, I'm very excited to see it in action. I'm not happy that I won't see it on my current machine (rev a TiBook).

What I've been saying for a while is that the people who have systems that meet the requirements seem to be thumbing their noses at the rest of the Mac community. So, Mr Jobs, what machine do you have? ;)

The fact is, regardless of what anyone says now, we have NO idea how Jaguar will perform on all the systems out there. That IS a fact. I've heard good things about it running better than 10.1 on G3 based systems, but that remains to be proven in the "real world".

And your sig sucks. :p

[Mr Jobs]

jipper

Come on are you trying to tel;l me that you feel for those 667 TiBook with 16MB graphics owners who are moaning because their laptop wont perform as good and those new TiBook 800Mhz G4 with 32MB graphics.

Because 16MB TiBook is supported by QE one not as good as a 32MB TiBook, just like the 667Mhz TiBook wont performe as good as the 800Mhz TiBook.

If that the case I hate apple because my dual 450G4 wont performe 10.2 as good as my friends dual 1GhzG4.

[Mr Jobs]

Rower_CPU

"We've got new software coming out, now buy new hardware to make it perform at its best" - Rower_CPU

Well sorry that apple is a business and it’s trying to sell you a new machine so they can make some money. Lets ban all apple adverts because that what they are about, trying to sell you a new machine. Why don’t people get it through their head that apple is a business and businesses need to make money for their shareholders, it that such a crime. It wasn’t founded so it could end world hunger.

"What I've been saying for a while is that the people who have systems that meet the requirements seem to be thumbing their noses at the rest of the Mac community. So, Mr Jobs, what machine do you have? " - Rower_CPU

Cheek my profile I have a G4 450Dual with RAGE 16MB, so there goes that angle, in fact I am going to buy a new machine after 10.2 comes out too take full advantage.

“And your sig sucks.” -Rower_CPU

‘I am a calculating machine’…it other words for you simple small minded people…a calculating machine is a computer, which is what a computer does, calculate. But of course your too simple minded to have figured that out.

[jipper]

Mr. Jobs it's hardly polite to join a forum site and start flaming the people who have made this site what it is today. Although what you say has some merit... there is absolutely no basis for imagining that people should need to buy a new computer to support an OS revision (.2 is a revision!!). You seem to be the one doing most of the whinging buddy, even if it is about other people whinging!!!
Just another whinging POM!
Tim.

[Mr Jobs]

Jipper

Hey cheek all my posts I’ve only flamed people who have done the same to me first. Cheek my first reply to your post not one negative thing have I said in reference to you. As you have not to me in you post.

“You seem to be the one doing most of the whinging buddy” – Jipper

well look at my third post I’ve already acknowledged that, so whats your point, hell what do you expect i'm British

"...here is absolutely no basis for imagining that people should need to buy a new computer to support an OS revision (.2 is a revision!!)" - – Jipper

.x update doesn't AWAYS mean it is a small one, nor do we even know if it will be called that it might be X.5. rember OS 8.5, it a bigger leap forward then 7-8 or 8-9 and only supported PowerPC Macs

I wont use any negative reference to you in this post despite your little comments because I think you’ve got the wrong guy.

[alex_ant]

Originally posted by Mr Jobs
Yes your 16MB wouldn't perform as good as one with a 32MB, just like a 32MB graphics card wouldn't perform as good as a 64MB, Just as your 667Mhx TiG4 wont perform as good as the 800Mhz TiG4 so what’s you point.
Let's look at what the Jaguar page says:

"32MB VRAM recommended for optimum performance."

To me, that's fair enough. Apple has to draw the line somewhere. I just wish that my VRAM were either 1) already sufficient, or 2) upgradeable. I realize my TiBook isn't as fast as an 800MHz model, and so on and so forth and that's fine. But to include 16MB of VRAM in the TiBooks was a bad idea on Apple's part, especially when it would have been so easy and cheap to include more. I feel even more sorry for the owners of the rev A TiBooks (whose Mobility Rage 128s shipped with 8MB of non-upgradableVRAM even though they supported 16MB). And of course all iBook and CRT iMac owners...

As I said, I don't want to drag Apple down. I think QE is great, and I hope as many people as possible are able to benefit from it. ... It's just that apparently Apple doesn't hope that.
I would like to see you try and purchase a Wintel Laptop as powerful as a TiBook. A 2Ghz Pentium 4 is as good as a 800Mhz G4. but did you know that the laptops don’t use the normal P4 but a mobility chip which is almost half the power then it desktop counter-part. The 800Mhz G4 would Pis* on the P4 2Ghz Mobility. Plus show me a wintel laptop which is 1” thin with built-in CDR/DVD, wireless networking, 32MB Radeon, Gigabit Ethernet, Wide-screen made using CP1 pure Titanium. Never mind all the hardware, show me a Wintel laptop which last longer then 2.5 hours even on battery saving mode, none. Not ver mobile if you laptop wont come on. Go home and do your research, before you argue with someone who is technically more advanced and knowledgeable the you.
I was comparing x86 laptops to the 550MHz TiBook, not the 800MHz model. That said, Sony and Toshiba have some very competitive offerings. This is all off-topic, of course. I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish here, O advanced and knowledgeable one, but after all, since "what you say is," I'm wondering why I'm even bothering addressing that.
QE was only announced not released, moreover it was announced to it's developers not the public. QE still has a good 3-4 months before release. It nothing like apple released a software that doesn't work on it's hardware a week ago.
That's true. Assuming four months pass until QE is released, though, that's only four months after the top-of-the-line 16MB TiBook will have been discontinued. Not a lot of time, at least in my (and in many people's) opinions.

Who said anything about 'Steve Jobs' Apple CEO...again shows you lack of intelligence dumba**, There are millions of 'Smiths', 'Harry' and 'Jones' in this world where in the blue hell do you see the word 'Steve' in my name.

Dumb Wank**s like you should not be allowed out
Past experience has demonstrated to me that those who lob insults instead of making effort to constructively assert themselves are the ones whose arguments are weakest. I'm not sure where all the pent-up aggression is coming from, but I don't see how it's helping you - your arguments might meet less resistance if they were accompanied by openness and friendliness instead of bile and hatred. Seriously, this isn't Slashdot.

Alex

[alex_ant]

Mr Jobs - I'm sure that since you're more advanced and knowledgeable than I you already knew this, but you can use left bracket - quote - right bracket and left bracket - slash - quote - right bracket wrapped around others' text to quote them. Click the "quote" button instead of the "reply" button and vBulletin does the cutting and pasting for you. As I said, I'm sure you already knew this, but it might make it easier for you to type and easier for the rest of us to read.

Cheers,
Alex

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by Mr Jobs
Rower_CPU

"We've got new software coming out, now buy new hardware to make it perform at its best" - Rower_CPU

Well sorry that apple is a business and it’s trying to sell you a new machine so they can make some money. Lets ban all apple adverts because that what they are about, trying to sell you a new machine. Why don’t people get it through their head that apple is a business and businesses need to make money for their shareholders, it that such a crime. It wasn’t founded so it could end world hunger.

"What I've been saying for a while is that the people who have systems that meet the requirements seem to be thumbing their noses at the rest of the Mac community. So, Mr Jobs, what machine do you have? " - Rower_CPU

Cheek my profile I have a G4 450Dual with RAGE 16MB, so there goes that angle, in fact I am going to buy a new machine after 10.2 comes out too take full advantage.

“And your sig sucks.” -Rower_CPU

‘I am a calculating machine’…it other words for you simple small minded people…a calculating machine is a computer, which is what a computer does, calculate. But of course your too simple minded to have figured that out.

A hardhead, eh?

Who said Apple shouldn't make money? If they weren't profitable, they wouldn't still be in business. This move seems to be more about greed than profit. You do realise there's a difference, don't you?
Who said anything about advertising? We're discussing QE here, not a non-existent commercial.

Your machine has an AGP graphics card slot, so all you need is a new video card. My angle played out exactly as I wanted it to.

A calculating machine is also an abacus, a pocket calculator, a slide rule, etc...a calculating machine processes information and possesses no intelligence in itself...but you already knew that, right? Or did your gargantuan intellect miss that subtle fact?

[Rower_CPU]

I just noticed something...I'm in the wrong thread!

I retract everything I said. I was under the impression we were discussing "Quartz Extreme".

As I reread the thread title I see that I was mistaken, so please go on discussing "Quatz Extreame" without me. :rolleyes:

[alex_ant]

D'oh! Quatz Extreame... is that German or French?

[Mr Jobs]

“Past experience has demonstrated to me that those who lob insults instead of making effort to constructively assert themselves are the ones whose arguments are weakest. I'm not sure where all the pent-up aggression is coming from, but I don't see how it's helping you - your arguments might meet less resistance if they were accompanied by openness and friendliness instead of bile and hatred. Seriously, this isn't Slashdot. “ - alex_ant

I only replying to your “ … Steve Jobs is an asshole. I guess they're right!” comment otherwise I would not have gone to such extreme.

“I feel even more sorry for the owners of the rev A TiBooks (whose Mobility Rage 128s shipped with 8MB of non-upgradableVRAM even though they supported 16MB). And of course all iBook and CRT iMac owners... “ - alex_ant

and I feel sorry for those Powermac 6100 series people who have a totally upgradeable model/case but apple refuses to help them out with upgrades.

About the laptop I was trying to show you couldn’t compare a wintel to a Apple laptop…TiBooks are the most powerful available. It’s the desktops we should worry about when you compare to the wintel world.

I didn’t say ‘advanced and knowledgeable’ is said ‘technically more advanced and knowledgeable’. That is nothing to do with “bracket - quote - right bracket and left bracket - slash - quote - right bracket wrapped around others' text to quote them” I’m totally lost their. But how to you get the bold text I get some dialog box coming up if I try to use one of those styles buttons, if you help me I could make my post more easier to read for everyone else.

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by Mr Jobs
But how to you get the bold text I get some dialog box coming up if I try to use one of those styles buttons, if you help me I could make my post more easier to read for everyone else.

I don't mean to be rude, but is English your first language? If not, I apologize. If so, WTF!

To quote someone, simply click on the "quote" button at the bottom of the post.

If you wish to break up the quote with your comments (as you seem fond of doing) use the [quote] tags around the text you wish to quote. To end a quote insert a "/" before the word quote.

[alex_ant]

Originally posted by Mr Jobs
I only replying to your “ … Steve Jobs is an asshole. I guess they're right!” comment otherwise I would not have gone to such extreme.
Well, what can I say, you were an asshole. "What I say IS." It's not like I took your insult personally, but mightn't it be wise to be slighty more... modest? How do you expect to get anywhere with a statement like that?
and I feel sorry for those Powermac 6100 series people who have a totally upgradeable model/case but apple refuses to help them out with upgrades.
Again, it's a question of where to draw the line. I believe there is a difference between not allowing Power Mac 6100s to run QE optimally and not allowing iceBooks, iMac DVs, and rev A and B PowerBooks which are all still shipping with less than 32MB of VRAM, save the PowerBooks, to run QE optimally. This difference is subjective, but I'm certainly not alone in my opinion. The fact remains that many of us spent lots of money on a very nice computer mere months (or weeks) ago that is not able to run QE optimally, and I do believe that a fairly pronounced distinction can be drawn between these nice new computers and very old Power Macs.
I didn’t say ‘advanced and knowledgeable’ is said ‘technically more advanced and knowledgeable’. That is nothing to do with “bracket - quote - right bracket and left bracket - slash - quote - right bracket wrapped around others' text to quote them” I’m totally lost their. But how to you get the bold text I get some dialog box coming up if I try to use one of those styles buttons, if you help me I could make my post more easier to read for everyone else.
Instead of clicking on Post Reply, click on Quote at the bottom of the post you wish to quote. The quote formatting will be inserted automatically and it shouldn't be too tough to figure out. It's like HTML... which you should know at least somewhat well, being technically more advanced and knowledgeable than I.

Alex

[Mr Jobs]

“You do realise there's a difference, don't you?
Who said anything about advertising? We're discussing QE here, not a non-existent commercial. “- Rower_CPU

I read in an article can remember where I let you know when I remember, but a ATI guy said the computing need for QE made their RAGE cards run the system slower then running Quartz in normal mode. Basically it was a technical hard ware issue.

“Your machine has an AGP graphics card slot, so all you need is a new video card. My angle played out exactly as I wanted it to.” - Rower_CPU

granted I can upgrade but I live in England ad believe me I’ve tried looking for a 32MB second hand models hoping someone will sell thir old Geforce MX believe me a lot harder then the us. I’m not even gonna thing about a new one a cheep 32MB Radeon costs £220 that more then you pay for your GeForce4 Ti.

I read about and now know how to convert a GeForce 3 or MX PC model into an Apple compatible through a firmware hack, so that’s what I’ll be doing as PC card as way cheep under £200 for Geforce3 64MB or £60 for 32MB MX…I’m not sure if everyone knows this but I might write the instructions later if people are interested in a new thread tomorrow.

“a calculating machine processes information and possesses no intelligence in itself” Rower_CPU

sorry have to disagree there that’s where AI comes in.

have to go to sleep no it’s 8.30 in the morning here had not slept yet…argue with you later today. Sorry to all offended…no hard feelings I hope, after all you are all fellow apple users.

[Paolo]

Can someone please close this post, it's really bugging me, and it's full of whingers!!!

[alex_ant]

I'm just curious, but what is a "whinger?" Is it just a different spelling of "whiner?" And is the G silent? I'm sitting here and pronouncing it "win-jer"... :)

[Paolo]

Yes in whinger (win-jer)
Same as a whiner, must be an australian thing that only we use... well there you go you learn something everyday.

[alex_ant]

Huh! I guess you're right. Interesting! I feel privileged to be a part of the Macrumors Cultural Exchange.

[Paolo]

Suggestion ot admin, perhaps you should have an Apple culture exchange area!

[Mr Jobs]

"I don't mean to be rude, but is English your first language? If not, I apologize. If so, WTF!" Rower_CPU

Well one of the reason being for my lack of understanding of some of you’re American format of written speech, as in you are writing the way you talk…where normally one writes in a different format to the way one talks. Is due to the fact of my lack of sleep tonight, it is now 8.43 in the morning here in London (GMT), and I cannot for the life of me take every thing in at an high level understanding right now.

But as you must have witnessed by now with my written style in this present post is…well very formal. I gathered it has answered your question as to weather my first language is English or not.

I am a British Asian…born, bread and battered

And in answer to alex_ant I is doing a degree in User Interface, and dis may come to you as a surprise but me have the belief that /b/folder and stuff like these don’t belong to this world. And I is not willing to learn dis stuff called HTML…bo-ya-kashaaaaaaa

[Megaquad]

Originally posted by arn


Well, it's a fine line...

Would people be happier if Apple didn't released Quartz Extreme? and just stayed with regular Quartz?

It's not like it doesn't work at all on older Macs... it just defaults to "standard" Quartz

arn
Why did they called it Quartz Extreme? It's a normal feature of every operating system,but hey,we're mac users,we have to pay 50$ for another update which enables,can you imagine,hardware accelleration for Quartz!
I'm tired of f*cked up scrolling and other stuff. Jaguar better be faaasttt or apple be damned..

[alex_ant]

Couldn't sleep, Mr. Jobs?

[Paolo]

Megaquad.... forums are just a way of comuicating ideas, there usually quiet informal, most of the people I read on here write the way they speak, I do my self. Maybe you need to loosen up a bit and relax!

[Megaquad]

Originally posted by Mr Jobs
alex_ant

I take it you’re on of those who I’ve labelled ‘QE-Moaners’,

You see you like to moan so much you lose you sense of logic…why don’t you cheek the specs on the apple web site http://www.apple.com/macosx/newversion/ and you will see that your stupid 5 month old TiBook which you paid $2300 will run QE. Believe me $2300 is nothing we pay way more here in the UK so be happy with what you have.

“*nVidia: GeForce2MX, GeForce3, GeForce4 Ti, GeForce4 or GeForce4MX. ATI: any AGP Radeon card. 32MB VRAM recommended for optimum performance.”

Notice the words “any AGP Radeon card”. If you people (QE-moaners) will stop moaning for once please…Be happy with what you have because the man who looks into the mirror and sees nothing but himself is the most happiest, remember there are people who would love to own a TiBook QE or no QE.

No one has even come with even one creditable argument against my opinion...why, read my signature. Because what i say IS
are you freakin dumb?
You really dont understand that most of us dont have nvidia or ati radeon agp graphics? so why the hell we need QE?

[Paolo]

Calm down megaquad... it's just a forum, I see you 'are you freakin dumb' is written so formally aswell, we have a lot to learn from you!:D

[Mr Jobs]

Originally posted by alex_ant
Couldn't sleep, Mr. Jobs?


No I have a very important appointment this morning at 9am (PT):D :D

[Mr Jobs]

Originally posted by Paolo
Megaquad.... forums are just a way of comuicating ideas, there usually quiet informal, most of the people I read on here write the way they speak, I do my self. Maybe you need to loosen up a bit and relax!

I wasn’t complaining just gave one of the reason why it was harder for me to understand your American style and my lack of sleep…with me being British that all.

[Mr Jobs]

Originally posted by Megaquad

are you freakin dumb?
You really dont understand that most of us dont have nvidia or ati radeon agp graphics? so why the hell we need QE?

I 'm lost...sorry come again. What your poind in relevance to what I said

[j763]

Originally posted by Paolo
Look why are you bothering telling everyone else that wasted you money on a low end consumer product, and you wish it to run the OS not designed from it!

and you're telling me the g4 pm is not a consumer product??? the pm is hardly something you'd use for anything that requires any actual power -- db, server, etc...

apple is consumer...

[Megaquad]

okok..im calming myself down..
im just frustrated because i will never have os x running fast on my imac..
yeah,i know! i should sell my organs and buy mwny powermac!

[Megaquad]

Originally posted by Mr Jobs


I 'm lost...sorry come again. What your poind in relevance to what I said
i dont know either what did i mean with my post but that isnt excuse! :)
english is your primary language and you dont understant things!

[gambit]

Will you be able to use 10.2 without having a 32MB APG 2x Graphics card?

[Ouroboros]

Well from what I've gathered, yes. Right now the OS doesn't really use much of any graphic card for rendering system functions. The card itself for 10.2 really gives you the ticket to use Quartz Extreme, which of course is the OS rendered and offloaded to the GPU rather than the core processor.

[Backtothemac]

Ok, here goes the rant.

1st) I am sick of hearing people complain about QE. Yes, I know that I was one of the folks on the first day that had a knee jerk reaction, but now reality has set in. The fact is that it is a very postive thing that Apple is putting into their systems. We need OS X to advance, and we need it to advance quickly. To think that Apple would sit on the A$$ and do nothing to speed up the interface, is well, stupid. Am I disappointed that my systems will not support it? Yes. Am I now hoping that next year my wife will let me buy a new system? Yes.

2) The crap about Apple and their prices. Look, Apple computers are expensive for a couple of reasons. First, they have to pass the cost of R & D onto someone. Lets face it. Apple doesn't sit on its butt and forget about ergonomics like PC manufactures, they actually do something with their systems design. Second, they have to make a profit. Apple has been very consistant in their profit earnings which is one of the reasons that it has over 4 billion dollars in cash reserve. Third, you get what you pay for. Period.

3) The fair weather Apple fan. Now I am not a zealot, but for all you people out there that are saying, x.2 better fly, or to hell with Apple, well that is just stupid. Do us all a favor, and go buy an eMachine. Macs, right now, with X.1.4 are so far ahead of PC's in stability, reliability, cost maitenance, and many other factors that it is rediculous. Grow up, and if you don't like the product, then find something better! What's that you can't, then try going without a Mac for a week, and see if you feel differently about it.

[Hemingray]

Originally posted by Mr Jobs
Hemingray

I wouldn’t complain if my iBook that I just brought today didn’t support all the latest features, and I’ve already answered that…read my first post or maybe you didn’t have enough sense to understand it in the first place that’s why your asking me that stupid question.

Well you know that they say if at first you don’t succeed, try, try, try…

p.s your the kind of people i'm moaning about

Are you LOOKING for a fight? Or are you always this rude to others?

Excuse me for differing from your opinion... :rolleyes:

[iGav]

QE sounds cool to me, does it bother me that my rev A TiBook can't run it as fast as the latest hardware, of course it does....... but then again, technology is evolving so rapidly, that I personally do not expect a machine that will be 18 months old when OSX with QE is released to run it as fast as the latest current hardware......

OSX.(whatever number here) when released as arn said;

It's not like it doesn't work at all on older Macs... it just defaults to "standard" Quartz


So aslong as it works on my machine..... I'll be happy....... but I realise that it won't run as fast on my machine as it does on the latest and greatest.....(obviously) ...... but you can't expect it to!!

I think this is a great technology move by Apple........ :) ;) :D

[AlphaTech]

Fair warning...I have a keg of 'Whoop-Ass' on one side and a fully fueled flame thrower on the other.

For those of you B&Ming over not being able to run Jaguar, get OVER IT! If you have any Mac produced over the past few years, and can run the current version of OS X, you will be able to use the new one. It will run BETTER on systems that are newer and have better video cards (well, duhhhh).

For those who have a G4 with a Sawtooth motherboard (or better/newer) you have three options... Replace the AGP video card with one of the new Radeon's being offered, Add a PCI video card, or do nothing. The first option will give you the best results, since you will have kicking graphics for everything.

For the people with Blue and White G3's, you can also get one of ATI's PCI video cards and most likely get performance damned close to the people using AGP cards. This would also probably work for people with beige G3 systems.

For the people with portables... well, install it and find out. Anything with at least an AGP graphics card, you WILL be able to use Jaguar, just not as well as those of us that have at least a Mobile Radeon inside our system.

I picked up my new TiBook before I heard about Jaguar's requirements/recommended hardware. The way I see it, if it is really bad, then downgrade the system, if you even install it to begin with. Jaguar is NOT a required update. You could use 10.1.x forever and get away with it. It's NOT like what m$ does for systems.