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MacRumors
Dec 10, 2003, 07:32 PM
CNet reports (http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103_2-5119428.html) that Toshiba is due to unveil a less than 1-inch hard drive next month at the Consumer Electronics Show.

While no capacities are yet known for the upcoming drives, for reference, Hitachi currently manufactures 1-inch hard drives that hold from 1GB to 4GB of data. Competition in the mini-harddrive market continues to increase as more players are introducing comparable form factors. Hitachi recently introduced their own 1.8" hard drive which has found its way into the Dell Digital Jukebox.

As readers are aware, Apple presently uses Toshiba's 1.8" hard drives in the iPod and reportedly enjoyed nearly exclusive use of those drives from Toshiba in the first year of production.

bobbyp80521
Dec 10, 2003, 07:34 PM
indeed

KLFloyd
Dec 10, 2003, 07:35 PM
Cool...we may see even smaller iPods, or same size iPods with better battery life soon.

Looking forward to see what Apple has planed for the iPod.

captain kirk
Dec 10, 2003, 07:41 PM
This can only be good news for Apple.
Maybe this is the hard drive to go into the new epod?????

ITR 81
Dec 10, 2003, 07:42 PM
Smaller lowend iPods?

NavyIntel007
Dec 10, 2003, 07:48 PM
1" drives can't hold the capacity yet to put in the ipod. But it would be nice if they sold a 1 Gb - 4 Gb workout ipod. Smaller form factor and design with some water resistance and shock protection. I'd buy one and still use my 20 gb ipod.

rainman::|:|
Dec 10, 2003, 08:03 PM
keep in mind how expensive they'll probably be at first. i don't think we'll be seeing them in low-end (cheap wise) ipods anytime too soon...

pnw

ITR 81
Dec 10, 2003, 08:07 PM
Sport Pod
with attaching arm bands.
Featuring: iShock
Apples patented shock resistant technology that a paint shaker can't even disturb.

Also is water and sweat resistant.

Also comes in 7 cool flavour colours.

Not to mention a shock and scratch resistant outer shell and screen.

Comes in 3 capacities:
1GB
2GB
4GB

Now start sweating in style with your Sport Pod today!!

Timothy
Dec 10, 2003, 08:18 PM
Maybe I'm missing something here...but it seems to me that you'll never see a hard drive based mp3 player listed as shock-free. The "sport" mp3 players all have flash memory only.

If there is a spinning drive, then it will likely not be a sport ipod.

JoeMacDaddy
Dec 10, 2003, 08:28 PM
This will mean that the prices on the current Toshiba units will be coming down in price. Apple will be able to maintain their product margins and offer reduced priced iPods. They will sell more of the current iPod design.
:)

Macmaniac
Dec 10, 2003, 08:48 PM
Good news, if they have a 5 gig version then we may see a low cost iPod soon, hopefully these smaller drives will allow for longer battery life. I don't think the iPod's form factor will get any smaller, Apple would not want to lose the functionality of the current design, however it could get even thinner:)

Mr.Hey
Dec 10, 2003, 08:48 PM
Originally posted by NavyIntel007
1" drives can't hold the capacity yet to put in the ipod. But it would be nice if they sold a 1 Gb - 4 Gb workout ipod. Smaller form factor and design with some water resistance and shock protection. I'd buy one and still use my 20 gb ipod.

nail meet head :). I hope Apple reads these forums because this would be a great product.

Jerry Spoon
Dec 10, 2003, 09:08 PM
Originally posted by JoeMacDaddy
This will mean that the prices on the current Toshiba units will be coming down in price. Apple will be able to maintain their product margins and offer reduced priced iPods. They will sell more of the current iPod design.
:)

Ah! That's exactly what I was thinking, b/c we should know that we won't see these smaller drives in an ipod..too expensive and not enough capacity.

Gymnut
Dec 10, 2003, 09:13 PM
Hopefully they won't run into any production problems of not being able to produce enough of 'em.

spencecb
Dec 10, 2003, 09:29 PM
I love my iPod to death and I always take it with me when I am working out, but I have to admit, when I see the other people working out with the mp3 players around their arm, I'm a little jealous. Granted, I do see a multitude of other people with iPods, but you really dont need to carry around your entire music collection to go work out with. It would be great if Apple made some sort of workout iPod like two other people have already posted...it would be kick ass!

beefcake
Dec 10, 2003, 09:36 PM
Someone already said it: hard-drive based mp3 players aren't good for jogging, thats what flash memory is for.

spencecb
Dec 10, 2003, 09:40 PM
well, i beg to differ...when I work out I use cardio machines and I have my iPod in its case attached to my shorts. And it works just fine. It has skipped once or twice on me, but thats no big deal. And its not like the iPod reads the music off of the hard drive continuously...it loads the info into onboard memory, which lets the hard drive spin down until it is needed again, which is about 20 minutes worth of music at a time.

mproud
Dec 10, 2003, 09:43 PM
Hello? Everyone?

This is all MOOT if Toshiba doesn't provide sizes 10 GB and higher. Apple has no reason to adopt something that doesn't hold as much as the current iPods do! We still don't know what sizes Toshiba will be releasing. If this is their first release of 1-inch and below, it's probably going to be comparable to the Hitachi (duh).

This has very little immediate impact on the iPod line, folks!

MrMacMan
Dec 10, 2003, 09:44 PM
Only good if it increases battery life.

I want a 5 GB iPod... then I'm good.

All the new features... battery life...

That would be worth it.

ThomasJefferson
Dec 10, 2003, 09:44 PM
Must be fruit flavored. Lime Green Part Deux.

applejilted
Dec 10, 2003, 10:20 PM
A little off topic but for the life of me I can't understand why Palm or others don't incorporate hard drives into their PDAs....it's just plain dumb as they could then easily double as MP3 players

Tulse
Dec 10, 2003, 10:43 PM
PDAs don't have hard drives because a) they're hugely expensive, and b) they suck power. Nobody wants a Tungsten that costs several hundreds of dollars more and only runs for a few hours.

drbyers
Dec 10, 2003, 11:06 PM
i just want a cheaper iPod, period. I don't care what size the hard drive is...

sethypoo
Dec 10, 2003, 11:10 PM
I just don't think my 10GB iPod will ever fill up, I have 461 songs on it. I know that's tiny compared to some, but 461 songs is a heck of a lot to me.

A 4GB iPod would be neat, for those interested in the "cool" and "cheap" factor. I probably would have gone for a 4GB'er if it had been offered when I was buying my 10GB iPod.

Oh well, 10GB= room to grow.

:) :rolleyes: :D

sethypoo
Dec 10, 2003, 11:12 PM
Originally posted by Tulse
PDAs don't have hard drives because a) they're hugely expensive, and b) they suck power. Nobody wants a Tungsten that costs several hundreds of dollars more and only runs for a few hours.

I'd take one.

But then again, that's just me. Tungstens are just so neat.

TomSmithMacEd
Dec 10, 2003, 11:15 PM
Why is a low end iPod good? 10gb should be minimum for a hard drive based player. Why would someone want a 2gb iPod? It is too much to compete with flash drive mp3 and too little to put your whole collection on.

acj
Dec 10, 2003, 11:46 PM
The answer to a lot of questions here is cost. In 18 months, a 4GB microdrive (1") should cost $200 with the way things tend to go.

g4pismo
Dec 11, 2003, 12:12 AM
a small size ipod is good for folks like me who don't really have a massive library of music, but would like a small /jump/ device, if you will, as well as a music device.. I have a 5gb laptop drive that I put in a firewire case.. I use it almost every day.. it would be great if it could also play some tunes. True 2gb is a little sparce, but for me, a 10 would be overkill..

dongmin
Dec 11, 2003, 12:27 AM
My guess is that these 1" HDD drives will actually cost more than the 1.8" drives, just as 2.5" drives cost more (per gig) than 3.5" drives and 1.8" drives cost more than 2.5" drives.

The potential advantages of using the 1" drives are 1) less power consumption and 2) smaller form factor. The iPod is already pretty darn small. It's fits pretty nicely in my hand; I can't imagine it being any smaller without compromising useability (esp. with the display and wheel). It could stand to be lighter, however.

Sabenth
Dec 11, 2003, 12:48 AM
1 inch and getting smaller hell why not make it 50 mm and get it over with lol..

good news for a smaller ipod gig rate though for those of us who dont need gig gigs

drbyers
Dec 11, 2003, 12:53 AM
why doesn't apple just use the IBM 1 gigabyte microdrive used in cameras? hell, it's small enough for even the tiniest of mp3 players...

hokka
Dec 11, 2003, 12:57 AM
Little bit off topic...

This news makes wonder since Toshiba has realsed their Giga-something-player in Japane only, how is it selling compares to iPod in the land-of-the-rising-sun? I wonder? Isn't it already smaller than the iPod (in the 20GB version at least)? haven't hard anything of it after it's initial release...

Any Japanese (or resides in Japan) MR members like to fill me in?

iMeowbot
Dec 11, 2003, 02:40 AM
Originally posted by dongmin
The potential advantages of using the 1" drives are 1) less power consumption and 2) smaller form factor. The iPod is already pretty darn small. It's fits pretty nicely in my hand; I can't imagine it being any smaller without compromising useability (esp. with the display and wheel). It could stand to be lighter, however.

Smaller disks also free up space for bigger batteries and connectivity. A built-in wireless (RF, not IR) remote transceiver would be a nice thing to stuff into some of that freed space. Or maybe a VGA port for the inevitable headless iPod :D

ntg
Dec 11, 2003, 04:53 AM
I am wondering if this small drive will be announced in a new Apple device at the show next month, because as far as I remember (anyone correct me?) Toshiba held-off announcing one of their 'new' 1.8" drives (can't remember which one) until after Apple had announced they were using it in te new iPod.

Anyone remember this, or is it just the onset of senility?

Nig.

sparky76
Dec 11, 2003, 05:57 AM
Is it just me or does anyone else not see the point of these drives? We can already get 4GB CompactFlash, and the price will only drop. What advantage has a 4GB drive, except cost, and then perhaps only for a while. The drive is slower, heavier, more likely to fail, more likely to skip and uses more power.

My 30GB iPod is 95% full - we need more capacity, not less.

iMeowbot
Dec 11, 2003, 06:46 AM
Originally posted by sparky76
Is it just me or does anyone else not see the point of these drives? We can already get 4GB CompactFlash, and the price will only drop. What advantage has a 4GB drive, except cost, and then perhaps only for a while. The drive is slower, heavier, more likely to fail, more likely to skip and uses more power.

My 30GB iPod is 95% full - we need more capacity, not less.

Each type of storage still has its place in the world. Flash is pretty much guaranteed to fail, it's designed to last through about 1 million write cycles before bits begin to fail. That's fine for file transfers and read-mostly applications, but not very much if you're running anything that uses temp or swap/page files.

dongmin
Dec 11, 2003, 09:59 AM
Originally posted by drbyers
why doesn't apple just use the IBM 1 gigabyte microdrive used in cameras? hell, it's small enough for even the tiniest of mp3 players... have you checked out the price on those drives? $200-400 retail. Too steep for a 'low end' iPod or ePod or whatever people are calling this thingy.

Samir 3.0
Dec 11, 2003, 10:27 AM
Maybe is this the first step to get a Power Pod???

mrsebastian
Dec 11, 2003, 11:10 AM
i'm not expecting apple to use new 1" drives to make cheaper ipods, but i figure new drives could help bring down the production costs. subsequently making ipods cheaper over all. it's pretty darn amazing to me with all the ipods sold, more competitors, and i'd assume cheaper production costs that apple hasn't started lowering costs to get out to more people.

damax452
Dec 11, 2003, 11:18 AM
Apple knows people want large storage in their ipods. I don't think they will use the 1" drives until they can hold at least 10GB. But if they are able to get the iPod small/thinner/lighter, with this new drive, I'm all for it!

sparky76
Dec 11, 2003, 11:22 AM
Smaller drive, same capacity, bigger battery? Answering the only real criticism there is of the iPod.

the_dalex
Dec 11, 2003, 12:04 PM
Why would somebody say this announcement would drop the prices of the 1.8" drives? There's absolutely no logical connection. There's no economy of scale improvement because they are sufficiently different items, and they have vastly different capacities and will therefore be used in different applications, so there's no competitive pressure to drop prices.

The drives will be expensive, and not immediately suitable for mass-market consumer applications. The iPod is small enough for me, thank you, I don't want to pay more and get a fraction of the storage just to save on size and weight.

NavyIntel007
Dec 11, 2003, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by applejilted
A little off topic but for the life of me I can't understand why Palm or others don't incorporate hard drives into their PDAs....it's just plain dumb as they could then easily double as MP3 players

I've wondered the same thing. Hitatchi makes Microdrives for imbedded applications. The only problem with using HD storage on a handheld is that you have to eventually defragment the thing and have various forms of disk utilities. But that's why there are third party developers right?

Anything 4 GB or larger has to be formatted in FAT-32. Palm does not support that file format.

NavyIntel007
Dec 11, 2003, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by dongmin
have you checked out the price on those drives? $200-400 retail. Too steep for a 'low end' iPod or ePod or whatever people are calling this thingy.

You ever checked the prices of the 1.8" PC cards? 5 gb, if you can find them cost $500. Other sizes go up from there. You're forgetting that things are cheaper when you buy in bulk and NOT from retail. OEMs can get these drives for $100 a piece or less.

acj
Dec 11, 2003, 04:11 PM
Originally posted by dongmin
have you checked out the price on those drives? $200-400 retail. Too steep for a 'low end' iPod or ePod or whatever people are calling this thingy.
currently, 2.2 GB drives are about $180 street price. That's for a hitachi CF type II card

About a previous comment, microdrives are usually as fast as the fastest (most expensive) flash cards.

Why don't they make an MP3 player with a CFII slot? Then you can upgrade as it gets cheaper. I guess it wouldn't be a unique product then, and Apple doesn't seem to like people having economical upgrade paths.

skymac
Dec 11, 2003, 07:14 PM
In all honesty i could not care less if they make the iPods with a smaller form factor or smaller drives or bigger capacities rite now. I know fore some people 10-40 GB is not enough and for some its too much. for me 10-20GB is perfect but there is a market for people who dont know or listen to that much music. my itunes collection is approaching 2GB rite now and i still have quite a few CDs and a few Mp3 CDs worth of music that i dont have space for until i get my PB and iPod ;,<(its taking way to long). i will fill it up if its 10GB within 2 months of having it and since im so cheap i have to borrow cds from friends. The market does exsist like i said but its also over saturated so i dont 100% think its necessary for apple to enter it. a slomg as 10GB reamins the low end. Staying competetive wich they have now problem doing in the 1.8'/1.0' drive mp3 player market is what apple has to do.

ddbean
Dec 12, 2003, 04:46 PM
If a 40 Gig hd fits on a 1.8" platter size, why can't you fit more than 4 gigs on a 1" platter size? I don't understand why going down 45% = only a tenth the data amount. There must be a large amount (relative to size) of unusable space on both platters?

Bear
Dec 12, 2003, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by ddbean
If a 40 Gig hd fits on a 1.8" platter size, why can't you fit more than 4 gigs on a 1" platter size? I don't understand why going down 45% = only a tenth the data amount. There must be a large amount (relative to size) of unusable space on both platters? Well there are two factors you overlooked. One is the size of the spindle or core that takes area away from the disk platter. Also you need to leave room at both the inner edge and outter edge of the platters which also removes room.

Also, how many platters are in a 1.8" drive versus a 1" drive? The 40GB iPOD drive has to have either two or 3 platters.

The 1" drive may only have data on one side and not two.

So lots of factors.

guenesis
Dec 12, 2003, 09:54 PM
Also, keep in mind that, assuming that 1.8" and 1" refer to the platter diameters, if my arithmetic isn't entirely forgotten, the 1.8" platter has more than 3X the surface area.