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arn
May 14, 2002, 04:52 PM
Steve Jobs giving his Presentation (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/020514/168/1jo1a.html)

Photo of XServe RAID (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/020514/168/1josr.html)

Photo of XServe with motherboard open (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/020514/168/1jorr.html)

Xapplimatic
May 14, 2002, 04:59 PM
1. "Well it's about time!"
2. SWEET!
3. OMG...! Cluster farms.. render farms... OMG!

Ensign Paris
May 14, 2002, 05:21 PM
The raid looks so promissing, I just hope it supports raid 4!

Ensign

Mr. Anderson
May 14, 2002, 05:24 PM
That RAID looked nice, I wonder what the configuration was that Steve was posing with.

Is it me, but does Steve look a little older, more tired in these shots? Maybe because he wasn't smiling in the close up. And his jeans were looking a little saggy.....

King Cobra
May 14, 2002, 05:33 PM
HFS!

I just checked out the Xserve on www.apple.com . . . amazing! The part that blew me away was this number: 630, and this word: gigaflops.

Now, I do not mean to sound so unintelligent, but how do rack mount servers work in general? Can you actually have all of these racks serve as just one computer or what?

I mean, I have heard of rack mount servers, but I really am not sure how they work.
__________________

Any time is a great time for iPod.

dongmin
May 14, 2002, 05:36 PM
Yeah Steve doesn't look so hot. Especially in the third photo--the shot really accentuates his receding and greying hairline.

I wonder at what point, Steve will a) get tired of it and quit or b) bring Apple to a comfort level that he feels secure enough to pass the reigns. I say, if and when Apple closes the megahertz gap, attains close to 10% market share, and diversifies the product line enough so that Apple gets a fair chunk of its income through nonPC products (like the iPod), Steve can safely pass the reigns. Until then, I fear for Apple the day Steve decides to kick it.

Dr. Distortion
May 14, 2002, 05:37 PM
higher quality pictures are available here:
http://www.apple.com/pr/photos/xserve/xserve.html

Mr. Anderson
May 14, 2002, 06:05 PM
Originally posted by Dr. Distortion
higher quality pictures are available here:
http://www.apple.com/pr/photos/xserve/xserve.html

Damn, those are high res images. I now have a new background, very nice...

shadowfax0
May 14, 2002, 06:41 PM
Sweet! ::drool:: :D They should have an emoticon with a long slimey piece of drool hanging out of it's mouth, so I don't have to type it :) Yeah, Steve does look kinda tired, to tell you the truth, I don't think he knows how much we appreciate him! I think we should try to do something to let him know like 'Steve Jobs Appreciation Week' or soemthing :)

scott_meinzer
May 14, 2002, 06:48 PM
whats with the bottom one on this pic? it looks like a 3U server. Did that come out today as well? any details?

scott_meinzer
May 14, 2002, 06:53 PM
As i read (i just got home) i see that that is Xserver RAID, duh.; didnt think bout that before but they both look kool.

/Scott Meinzer

nickgold
May 14, 2002, 07:12 PM
These machines make me want to nut.

heheheheheheheheheh

Now I just need a few hundred Gs to drop on a kickass cluster, and find some lone loony programmer to develop an AI, and I will take over the world!

HAHAHAHAH

TheT
May 14, 2002, 08:24 PM
I heard people complaining about the last G4 Sever's unability to be rack-mounted for professional reasons because the HDs wouldn't be horizontal, which would cause damage over a long time. Now, in the Xserve RAID, there are 14 nice drives... but vertical! Does anybody know whether this is really all that bad or not? I mean I can imagine it's not quite good for a HD to be like that 24/7...
...any clue?

kettle
May 14, 2002, 08:38 PM
How about if I wrote a really nice letter to Steve Jobs asking if he'd like to adopt a nephew. I really think he could turn out to be a very kind man, great for discussing those hard to scratch configuration problems...

"Kind Uncle Stevie?.... what will happen to your old computer when your G6 arrives next week."

Scab Cake
May 14, 2002, 08:55 PM
At cnet.com there are two movies linked right on the front page. First is 5 minutes or so from the actual keynote speech (I don't know if this is a real keynote, but for lack of better words I'll just say "keynote") and the other video is David Coursey interviewing Phil Schiller about the product. It's kinda cool.

http://www.cnet.com

jefhatfield
May 14, 2002, 09:09 PM
Originally posted by Xapplimatic
1. "Well it's about time!"
2. SWEET!
3. OMG...! Cluster farms.. render farms... OMG!

good timing...compaq just got bought out and apple does have this window of opportunity in the server market

kevine
May 15, 2002, 12:24 AM
Originally posted by TheT
I heard people complaining about the last G4 Sever's unability to be rack-mounted for professional reasons because the HDs wouldn't be horizontal, which would cause damage over a long time. Now, in the Xserve RAID, there are 14 nice drives... but vertical! Does anybody know whether this is really all that bad or not? I mean I can imagine it's not quite good for a HD to be like that 24/7...
...any clue?

It's not an issue. I recall years ago reading a report about how just the opposite was true...drives would last longer if they were verticle, but the result in the survey were pretty much inconclusive.

Foocha
May 15, 2002, 03:12 AM
I think hard drives can handle themselves a bit better these days, but just to make sure, I take care to ensure that my iPod is always on the level ;)

Isn't it strange to see this kind of gear on the Apple Web site. They're reaching out to a whole new audience, where all the neat design thinking of Ives and marketing of Jobs will not cut them much slack. Even their beautiful Aqua interface will not have much significance for a Rack Mount server.

OS X's UNIX pedigree does present Apple with an opportunity, but whether they stand a chance against more established and proven Linux solutions remains to be seen.

It would be great to see Apple have some success in this area though.

sluthy
May 15, 2002, 04:05 AM
I can't seem to find any information about the Xserve RAID anywhere on the Apple site. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

(Not that I can afford one - they start at $6750 down under)

mmmdreg
May 15, 2002, 04:55 AM
So who's getting some for their business?

Beej
May 15, 2002, 05:11 AM
Originally posted by mmmdreg
So who's getting some for their business? I'd love to, but I think my G4 933 is plenty fast for what I do! :D

Man, I just can't stop thinking about how good it would be to have a full rack of those babies... *drool*

MasterX (OSiX)
May 15, 2002, 07:35 AM
So far there are three apple products announced:
1) Xserve 1U (apple.com's front page)
2) Xserve 3U (the bigger, 12 disk older brother with insane HD caches)
3) RAID Xserve (some multi-terybite box apple is planning for people with a LOT of files. I hear it uses the high-speed fiberoptic port, but I would assume dual FireWire ports would be a connectivity optiopn.)

MasterX (OSiX)
May 15, 2002, 07:37 AM
For people really exicited I posted my desktop pictures of the Xserve on my web page:

http://homepage.mac.com/g4_500

It's the link called "Xserve Desktops" or something, too lazy to check. They're pretty much high-res copies of the uber-cool apple.com post.

(edited for a working link)

mmmdreg
May 15, 2002, 08:05 AM
Originally posted by MasterX (OSiX)
So far there are three apple products announced:
1) Xserve 1U (apple.com's front page)
2) Xserve 3U (the bigger, 12 disk older brother with insane HD caches)
3) RAID Xserve (some multi-terybite box apple is planning for people with a LOT of files. I hear it uses the high-speed fiberoptic port, but I would assume dual FireWire ports would be a connectivity optiopn.)

WHats this 3U one you speak of? I though that was the RAID in the pic at the top of this thread..and i thought it was actually meant to be 4U

gjohns01
May 15, 2002, 09:54 AM
Originally posted by MasterX (OSiX)
So far there are three apple products announced:
1) Xserve 1U (apple.com's front page)
2) Xserve 3U (the bigger, 12 disk older brother with insane HD caches)
3) RAID Xserve (some multi-terybite box apple is planning for people with a LOT of files. I hear it uses the high-speed fiberoptic port, but I would assume dual FireWire ports would be a connectivity optiopn.)

FibreChannel uses fiber or copper. Not a chance you would see dual FireWire on the XServe. FireWire just isn't fast enough or fits the requirements. FibreChannel scales from 266mb/s to over 4gbps. Supports distances up to 10km. Supports point-to-point, loop hub, or switched topologies. Guaranteed delivery (something that gigabit ethernet, atm, and firewire don't provide), etc, etc.

Foocha
May 15, 2002, 09:58 AM
From the Apple Web site Xserve page:

"Three FireWire ports: Two ports on the back panel and one on the front panel let you connect to high-bandwidth FireWire (IEEE 1394a) devices like storage units and audio and video input devices."

arn
May 15, 2002, 10:47 AM
There is no XServer 3U from my understanding:

XServe 1U
XServe RAID (which is JUST a RAID array)

arn

Foocha
May 15, 2002, 10:53 AM
True - and the 3U Raid unit ain't out until later in the year, which in Apple speak means MWSF 2003 ;)

OSeXy!
May 15, 2002, 12:36 PM
What's the case made of? I assume Titanium... but in my speed-read of the specs I couldn't see it. I wonder if this mystery metal is a clue for the new PMac range?...

kettle
May 15, 2002, 03:06 PM
Originally posted by OSeXy!
What's the case made of? I assume Titanium... but in my speed-read of the specs I couldn't see it. I wonder if this mystery metal is a clue for the new PMac range?...

The same button style and vent slot styling, but with some of that white edge stuff like iBooks and iPod. Not as curvy as the G4's.

hmm..

MasterX (OSiX)
May 15, 2002, 07:01 PM
Originally posted by gjohns01


FibreChannel uses fiber or copper. Not a chance you would see dual FireWire on the XServe. FireWire just isn't fast enough or fits the requirements. FibreChannel scales from 266mb/s to over 4gbps. Supports distances up to 10km. Supports point-to-point, loop hub, or switched topologies. Guaranteed delivery (something that gigabit ethernet, atm, and firewire don't provide), etc, etc.

Yes that was brought to my attention when apple posted the talk online today. Also as it turns out the 3U is the RAID unit, not a separate new Xserve. The two go hand in hand and will use a dual gigabit fibrechannel wire system, one for each half. (7 Hds per system)

MasterX (OSiX)
May 15, 2002, 07:05 PM
OH YEAH, and one more thing... for those who didn't find out already, the 3U RAID will in fact be hardware RAID controller, thus enabling 0 CPU tax, and INSANE performance. Each system (what i call it anyway) is made up of a self-sufficient 7-ATA100 HD array. The whole unit will probably operate as one, and I assume you can use the Xserve's remote app to config the Xserve RAID in any strip, mirror, single config you want. And yes, the HD cache per system is 128MB and it's fast, don't remember off hand what they said in Mhz though.

swexplorer
May 16, 2002, 08:47 AM
What to do with one of these at home????
I know they are expensive...
That's for me the real center of the Digital Hub!
A server capable of multiple streaming (to different "terminals" with 22 LCDs) Qucktime Video, Music and what else needed (CPU power...)
connected through FireWire and Airport (possibly the new 802.11 at 50 Mbps...) connectivity..

Tiauguinho
May 16, 2002, 09:23 AM
I Have a question to make



Does this server support multiple work spaces? Because I would love to have one of these in our company. We have a IBM server( from 1992, that runs UNIX ) that is our only computer and we have 4 monitors that serve 4 of our departments, and each one runs different programs in the same program( Is it me or is this a little confusing?) Can anyone of you explain me if this is the thing that I should order now? Will this server do the Job for my company, because if it does I will buy one, with 4 Apple LCD's, and import our software for OSX. Can this be done? If so, how?

MasterX (OSiX)
May 16, 2002, 03:47 PM
Why does everyone suddenly think you connect displays to this thing? Assuming you get a regular config, you can connect ONE display (i think VGA). If you get a Radeon8500 (assuming it's retail, I don't know) you could connect TWO, both could be Apple LCDs if you bought a converter, but again I'd have to check (expect update soon). As for work spaces, what do you mean? I don't know LANs very well yet from a software standpoint, but I do know OSX Server. Assuming you mean multiple workgroups (separate services per group of computers), you can do that easily as it is my understanding.

MasterX (OSiX)
May 16, 2002, 03:54 PM
From Apple.com's store:
"ATI Radeon 8500 AGP card
Upgrade your Xserve to include the Radeon 8500 graphics processing unit (GPU). This leading-edge GPU is supported by 64 MB of fast DDR SDRAM and delivers superior 3D graphics acceleration. The Radeon 8500 features a VGA and S-Video connector as well as a Digital Visual Interface (DVI) connector for use with digital display devices, including Apple flat panel displays (via the Apple DVI to ADC Adapter which is sold separately). Dual monitor mode for extended desktop or mirroring mode for presentations is supported for flexible viewing options."

In short you could connect a Cinema or other ADC display, then a VGA monitor. Or 2 VGA monitors with a DVI-VGA adaptor. I have one of the retail cards, they are AMAZINGLY powerful.

i thought about it some, and if you STILL *demanded* to have more displays, esp. Apple LCDs, you could add Radeon7000 Mac Edition cards. Each supports 2 displays (1 VGA, 1 DVI). I don't know if the 64-bit/66mhz slots Xserve has would accept the Radeon7000, but I do know that OSX 10.1 would support it with ease. As for people who want to use it as a desktop system, get a Radeon8500 AGP, that way you can use Quartz Extreme.
---
"Xserve provides two high-performance 64-bit, 66 MHz PCI slots. These slots support 32 or 64-bit, 33 MHz or 66 MHz 3.3V "universal" PCI cards. The lower slot is configured with an ATI graphics card by default. This card supports headless booting, VGA-based KVM switches, and hot-plugging of VGA displays through the VGA connector on the card. The ATI graphics card includes 32MB of DDR memory and provides both 2D and 3D acceleration, and supports resolutions up to 1600x1200 with support for millions of colors."

According to this it appears to be one of ATi's workstation style cards, but it has almost the same specs as Radeon AGP Mac Edition (but it's PCI, then again this would be 66Mhz PCI). As for quartz extreme I'd have NO CLUE at all. The hot-plugging of displays is nice. Since it says "33Mhz or 66Mhz" I beleive it would support the Radeon7000 PCI (as mentioned above). Then again for all that display stuff, I think a PowerMac w/OSX Server is better.

samy85114
May 16, 2002, 05:52 PM
I just want to come back on what's the Xserve made of? i'm almost sure this thing isn't made of titanium.

Apple is using that because of its durability, lightness...etc, and you need that kind of specification in a portable computer.
But, the Xserve gonna stay in a rack...

There's no reason to use titanium in that product. So, i guess, this should be something like Aluminum which is not so bad at all....

gopher
May 17, 2002, 06:08 AM
OK, what if I told you, you could get an unlimited license server for $300 less than a 25 license server software from Microsoft,
and get a 1 U mounted server for absolutely free! Yes that's what it means.

eric_n_dfw
May 23, 2002, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by Tiauguinho
Does this server support multiple work spaces? Because I would love to have one of these in our company. We have a IBM server( from 1992, that runs UNIX ) that is our only computer and we have 4 monitors that serve 4 of our departments, and each one runs different programs in the same program( Is it me or is this a little confusing?) Can anyone of you explain me if this is the thing that I should order now? Will this server do the Job for my company, because if it does I will buy one, with 4 Apple LCD's, and import our software for OSX. Can this be done? If so, how?
If you are asking if this is a multi-user system - then yes. All Unix's are.
How do you connect to your IBM today? Telnet? FTP? XWindow?
Mac OS X, being BSD Unix at it's core, supports telnet (and SSH) anf FTP out of the box and an X Window setup can be installed. (Technically, little is needed on the server side to run X Window app's remotely but that's a whole other story)
Now, your IBM is, probably, running their version of Unix, called "AIX". Software compiled for AIX will not run on BSD Unix. Thankfully, much of what is out there for AIX com be re-compiled (or already has been) for BSD. Commercial Applications might be a sticky point. For instance, if you run DB2 or Oracle on AIX - you're kind of stuck as niether is available for BSD / Mac OS X -- yet.

If you're asking if Mac OS App's can be run remotely, that's another issue. I've never seen it, but I've heard that you can "NetBoot" most G3/G4 PowerMac's off of the server. Can anyone else here expound on that?

Max OS X's prior incarnation, NeXTSTEP/OPENSTEP (via it's Display PostScript engine) allowed you to, like X Window, redirect the display of a GUI window to any other NeXTSTEP/OPENSTEP machine on the network that you had the rights to. I don't think Quartz (Display PDF) lets you do that now though. (If it does, Apple isn't saying so)

eric_n_dfw
May 23, 2002, 11:18 AM
Originally posted by gopher
OK, what if I told you, you could get an unlimited license server for $300 less than a 25 license server software from Microsoft,
and get a 1 U mounted server for absolutely free! Yes that's what it means.
Agreed - anyone remember what the Apple Network Servers (which ran AIX BTW) cost...
...according to EveryMac.com (http://everymac.com/systems/apple/network_server/stats/networkserver_700_200.html) the 200Mhz 604e one was $19,000.
I'd say they've come a long way!!!