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MacRumors
Dec 12, 2003, 01:51 AM
AOL is readying the next version of client software with improvements to their instant messaging software. AOL was previously prohibited from developing such services due to a prior FCC ban.

The new version will incorporate Video Conferencing for the first time. The software is currently in beta testing and will be released in early 2004 and will be available to both AOL and AIM users.

While Apple's iChat AV software offers text-chat interoperability with AOL's Instant Messaging service, the new Video Chat service is not interoperable with iChat AV.

Some have expected (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/10/20031026155056.shtml) that Apple will port iChat AV itself to Windows, but there are no reliable reports confirming this.

GregGomer
Dec 12, 2003, 02:04 AM
I've been waitng for this so I could video conference with a PC. Or so that we could use an iSight on the PC. I'm so bummed that AOL and iChat won't be compatible.

Hopefully iChat will make it to windows, or add AIM video conference capabilities. And hopefully the iSight will eventually work on a PC.

I'm so bummed it's not more immediate. Hopefully it is at least a step in the right direction.

Greg

Waluigi
Dec 12, 2003, 02:08 AM
Good: If this means apple can sell iSights to windows users, while still making them drool over using iChat vs. crappy AIM and windows.

Bad: If iSight isn't compatable with windows, and if AIM video conferencing does not work with iChat users!

Overall, I'm optimistic....let's hope it doesn't end up bad.

--Waluigi

GregGomer
Dec 12, 2003, 02:14 AM
"Mains declined to comment on whether AOL Live Video IM would eventually interoperate with the videoconferencing service currently offered to Apple iChat AV users. At present, the system is incompatible with Live Video IM."

Sounds hush hush, like Apple would want a joint venture to be. They were pretty open about everything else, so maybe Apple and AOL are working on compatablility. I assume it would come from Apples side, in an iChat AV update. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

Greg

Dahl
Dec 12, 2003, 02:43 AM
Originally posted by GregGomer
I've been waitng for this so I could video conference with a PC. Or so that we could use an iSight on the PC. I'm so bummed that AOL and iChat won't be compatible.

Hopefully iChat will make it to windows, or add AIM video conference capabilities. And hopefully the iSight will eventually work on a PC.

I'm so bummed it's not more immediate. Hopefully it is at least a step in the right direction.

Greg
Agree.
I would like to see it sooner than later, but I guess this is a step in the right direction.
I think Apple will release iChat AV for Windows and hopefully built some bridges to PC users.

AhmedFaisal
Dec 12, 2003, 02:57 AM
Now, this sucks big time but oh well. Steve-O has only one feasible option available now, port the damned thing to WinBlows and include an iSight Driver along with it. The only positive I can see in this thing is that this might bring PC users an alternative to this spyware/bloatware/adware laden bitch AIM. Oh and please make it Win2k compatible. I am so not going to install WinBlows XP on any of my family's comps so they can video chat with my mac. :D
Cheers,

Ahmed

MacMarino
Dec 12, 2003, 03:49 AM
well, its nice to hear that the software will work together (better?) but its a bit of a downer that the whole thing doesnt tie in better with iChat:( I thought that this would be the next step in Apples plan for integration. It might happen in the future but it would have been nice to have gotten the info sooner. Lets hope we get surprised at the MWSF;)

MacMarino

QCassidy352
Dec 12, 2003, 03:55 AM
I consider this a good thing because ichat is so horrible that I continue to use AIM. ichat is, IMHO, the worst piece of software apple currently has out there. So maybe a little competition will wake them up. Plus it just gives me a video chat option (not that I'm too likely to use it) in the meantime.

Gymnut
Dec 12, 2003, 04:27 AM
Guess I won't be buying an iSight anytime soon. :(

Sabenth
Dec 12, 2003, 04:47 AM
like everyone else has said its sad guess theres a work around coming soon

iwantanewmac
Dec 12, 2003, 05:05 AM
Originally posted by Gymnut
Guess I won't be buying an iSight anytime soon. :(

Get some more friends who use a mac. (and I sight) :)

bleachbypass
Dec 12, 2003, 05:25 AM
Originally posted by AhmedFaisal
Oh and please make it Win2k compatible. I am so not going to install WinBlows XP on any of my family's comps so they can video chat with my mac. :D

The current AIM beta web page says that the video conferencing only works with XP.

http://www.aim.com/get_aim/win/win_beta.adp

AhmedFaisal
Dec 12, 2003, 06:24 AM
Originally posted by bleachbypass
The current AIM beta web page says that the video conferencing only works with XP.

http://www.aim.com/get_aim/win/win_beta.adp

Was I talking about Bloating AIM? I don't think so. I was talking about an iChat for WinBlows port.
Cheers,

Ahmed

clonenode
Dec 12, 2003, 06:59 AM
The iSight works with the FireWire port on a Mac. Many PCs don't use the full implementation of FireWire (all 6 pins), so the camera might not work on a PCs 4 pin version. Those extra two pins provide power. That's why your iPod can charge when connected to your Mac, but not your PC.

mangis
Dec 12, 2003, 07:32 AM
How can you people not see what is happening? There is no reason that the windows community can"t make and sell an isight-like camera for half the price (or less), connecting with usb 2.0 or even firewire.

Where will ichat be then? Down the toilet. This is bad news for ichat, and could be the beginning of the end, unless we can use our isights with windose users.

This is not really that surprising. Apple has always been behind, yes, get out of denial, BEHIND, in telephony and internet chatting. While isight is now better than any choice for windose, we have to keep in mind just how many mac users there are in the world. I, for one, want to use my isight with windose people. You can choose to ignore the other 97.5%, but I don't want to. Reality bites.

Lord Bodak
Dec 12, 2003, 07:36 AM
Originally posted by QCassidy352
I consider this a good thing because ichat is so horrible that I continue to use AIM. ichat is, IMHO, the worst piece of software apple currently has out there. So maybe a little competition will wake them up. Plus it just gives me a video chat option (not that I'm too likely to use it) in the meantime.

I agree, iChat just doesn't impress me. I have it around for the AV features but that's it.

But still, Steve made a big deal about iChat AV using standards, I am kinda stunned that instead of working with the same standards, AOL went with something that's not just Windows-only, but WinXP only.

Lord Bodak
Dec 12, 2003, 07:38 AM
Originally posted by mangis
How can you people not see what is happening? There is no reason that the windows community can"t make and sell an isight-like camera for half the price (or less), connecting with usb 2.0 or even firewire.

Where will ichat be then? Down the toilet. This is bad news for ichat, and could be the beginning of the end, unless we can use our isights with windose users.


Why is this bad for iChat? There's nothing that says you can ONLY use an iSight with iChat, and there's nothing that says an iSight is the only option for iChat.

If the Windows community makes a good hardware alternative, then we can buy it. Hopefully Apple will make it possible for Windows users to do the opposite (use an iSight with AOL's new video IM).

Wonder Boy
Dec 12, 2003, 07:41 AM
I dont think it would be a good idea to port ichat. it has so few features (motion icons, profile, etc) that i think windows users would look down on it. itunes was a good port, you couldnt really screw up a music player. but people are used to aim and its features. to not have them would almost be an admission that ichat is inferior.

I say save the port to windows untill iChat is virtually perfect on the mac. that way windows people wont have anything to complain about.

ennerseed
Dec 12, 2003, 08:15 AM
Some of you are talking about iChat as being bad... in what way is it bad? As for one person's comment that it doesn't support profiles, it does. And as for motion icons, meh (I guess if you could turn it off, options are good). I much prefer it's non-commercialized interface to that of Aol's ugly cluttered adbloat. I also like that I can have pictures on or off, bubbles on or off (I prefer the bubbles oddly enough, it makes for easy read).

Wonder Boy
Dec 12, 2003, 08:24 AM
Originally posted by ennerseed
As for one person's comment that it doesn't support profiles, it does.

how?

1macker1
Dec 12, 2003, 08:26 AM
Untill i can do multi AV chats, i'm not impressed with the AV. But i do like iChat.

ennerseed
Dec 12, 2003, 08:32 AM
Originally posted by Wonder Boy
how?
get info on a buddy, and then select Show: their name

Gizmotoy
Dec 12, 2003, 08:33 AM
Originally posted by ennerseed
Some of you are talking about iChat as being bad... in what way is it bad? As for one person's comment that it doesn't support profiles, it does. And as for motion icons, meh (I guess if you could turn it off, options are good). I much prefer it's non-commercialized interface to that of Aol's ugly cluttered adbloat. I also like that I can have pictures on or off, bubbles on or off (I prefer the bubbles oddly enough, it makes for easy read).

I just don't like how Away messages are handled. If anyone has links in them, you can't look at them because the only way you can see the whole away message anyway is by hovering over the user's name. You can right-click and view their profile, but not their away message. Not to mention that typing away messages into that tiny little box is annoying. Or that is stores all the away messages you write, instead of simply the ones you want saved.

I do like iChat, and I use it regularly, but I'd have to agree that it needs some major work.

Kingsnapped
Dec 12, 2003, 08:33 AM
AIM isn't the bloated ad whore that some people are saying it is. I use DeadAIM on Windows ME (mac is in the mail, I swear) and I never see ads, pop-ups or that RAM hogging stock ticker. I don't know what my alternitive is going to be on a mac, but as long as you find a good hack, AIM isn't that bad.

Mr.Hey
Dec 12, 2003, 08:47 AM
I'm sure third party developers could work their magic, after all it is based on open standards. With some time I think Apple would see the benefit in making it cross platform compatible without having to port iChat, just iSight with drivers.

But in truth I don't really think pc users would be willing to pay $150 for a webcam at least the majority wont. I don't think they see the sense in spending that much on what's been perceived as a toy; if they only knew how powerful, fully capable audio and video conferencing camera it truly is.

Wonder Boy
Dec 12, 2003, 08:52 AM
Originally posted by ennerseed
get info on a buddy, and then select Show: their name

http://www.re-fresh.com/profile.gif

no, i want to create a profile for myself. im sure i cant do that in ichat.

splashman
Dec 12, 2003, 08:59 AM
Maybe it's just me. I have zero desire for any AOL-branded software on my box. Also could care less about video chat, whether Apple-branded or not.

pb1212580
Dec 12, 2003, 09:08 AM
being a newly converted, I'd like to just have my 2 cents in...

I use almost all the "big" chat programs out there... and have used all of them for PCs even thing like Trillion (sp?)

I currently use MSN, Yahoo, ICQ, iChat, AIM regularily.
I have to say, iChat has been THE most stable in terms of performance and I just love how everything is setup. the icons, messages, buddy adding and two/one way video/audio chats; and how it's so easier to use and fun!

I Really wished they'd at least make iChat PLAY NICE and be AV compatible with Windows. It's no use having the greatest webcam if you can't communicate with most people you know.

Yes, Steve dreams of converting the whole world to Mac but is it going to happen in the next months. NO!

So, I'd love to see it play nice and incorporate other protocols. Even ICQ uses AIM/iChat protocols now, too!

Wake up Apple, we love you but sometimes, you really NEED to listen to what people REALLY want... especially when it comes to Internet communicating!

ps. maybe a new webcam (iSight II) is in the works and they will introduce that with the new and improved/ all platform/protocol/ All Purpose iChat?!??!!?

One can only hope!

saint.duo
Dec 12, 2003, 09:37 AM
You don't have to use iChat AV to use the iSight. Almost every video application and chat program on the Mac can use the iSight once iChat AV is installed. The person on the other end does not have to use an iSight either.

If memory serves, the iSight (or is it iChat AV itself?) uses H.232, which is a standard. Steve said that Windows programs could be made to talk to iChat video and audio.


Originally posted by mangis
How can you people not see what is happening? There is no reason that the windows community can"t make and sell an isight-like camera for half the price (or less), connecting with usb 2.0 or even firewire.

Where will ichat be then? Down the toilet. This is bad news for ichat, and could be the beginning of the end, unless we can use our isights with windose users.

This is not really that surprising. Apple has always been behind, yes, get out of denial, BEHIND, in telephony and internet chatting. While isight is now better than any choice for windose, we have to keep in mind just how many mac users there are in the world. I, for one, want to use my isight with windose people. You can choose to ignore the other 97.5%, but I don't want to. Reality bites.

scat999999
Dec 12, 2003, 09:38 AM
Like MS, AOL (whom I actually have more disdain for than MS, if that's possible) wants you to use THEIR software and pay for THEIR service. They don't make any money unless you sign up for their service. Given all the people that have been dumping AOL service and just going with their broadband company as their ISP, AOL needs a carrot to keep their current customer base and get both new subscribers as well as some of the defectors back.


Originally posted by Macrumors

While Apple's iChat AV software offers text-chat interoperability with AOL's Instant Messaging service, the new Video Chat service is not interoperable with iChat AV.

AhmedFaisal
Dec 12, 2003, 09:42 AM
Ok people, maybe I am old fashioned but what I like about iChat is the fact that it does NOT have a lot of the features of other chat clients. Its like the Cell Phones. I *DON'T* want to have a cell will 10000 features I will never use, yet no matter what cell I buy nowadays it has them and the essential functions I need are so buried I have to read a manual bigger than the actual phone to find them, and I can't customize and erase that crap either. Same goes for iCQ/AIM etc. Boy do I miss the old days when ICQ was just a chat client, now its an egglaying swissknife cow that is huge, bloated and with a ton of functions I never wanted. And there I can't get rid of them either. ICQ Lite was a good idea, but they are rebloating it again. That goes with every damned prog on PCs. I don't want all that **** of WMP7 & 9, I still have 6.4 on my old W2k box, and I really hate those big box of ************ DVD Players too that have all that crap that I never wanted, I love the easy minimalistic interface of the Apple DVD player. That is why I use a mac as a primary machine. Apple KNOWS most people don't want featuritis they want easy to use software that contains all the essential stuff in a simple setup.
Cheers,

Ahmed

Bunzi2k4
Dec 12, 2003, 10:16 AM
well if the video chat on aim works with my web cam... i just might switch back to aim...

Lepton
Dec 12, 2003, 10:22 AM
Originally posted by ennerseed
Some of you are talking about iChat as being bad... in what way is it bad?

Only one thing in my mind makes iChat bad - no Video adjustments. This is so trivially easy to add I'm absolutely astounded it is not there. A trivial call to QuickTime brings up a killer adjustment dialog, which you can see in virtually all other video software. With iSight, there are major controls on tons of stuff other cameras don't have, it's great! But the current default, unchangable settings makes iSight POOR in low light and it simply does not have to be. With a minor adjust in that dialog, it is a great camera in low light. That it is missing is bad.

I think iChat should also have a conferencing feature so I can chat in a group. This would make a big splash, and allow use in many other situations. I want my company to be able to have video meeting over iChat!

By the way I fully expect Apple to make iChat compatible with video AIM. I expect a surprise announcement about that in some major update down the line. Conferencing seems a great addition to put in at that time too. Remember Apple has an agreement with AIM about text chat, it is a no brainer to extend that.

ceriess
Dec 12, 2003, 10:26 AM
Video chat between PC and Mac is practically non-existant in any meaningful way. Ophone-X is about as close as it has gotten and it only works with MS Netmeeting with it's hideous flaws and limitations. I have a feeling that the Powers that Be are are deliberately throwing a wrench into video telephony until some shady back room deal can be worked out, whereby the players will be able to carve some bucks out of us marks. Disappointing? Yep. Expected? of course.

mrsebastian
Dec 12, 2003, 10:55 AM
ichat is a wonderful thing and so is isight, but until i can video chat with my windows friends i'm certainly not gonna buy isight.

kherdin
Dec 12, 2003, 10:58 AM
The main downside for iChat from my point of view, that keeps me from using it (before even considering other things) is that it only works with the AIM network. I understand that it would be difficult to incorporate other networks with their legal permission etc, on Apple's part, but that is irrelevant to me, as a consumer. That's because, I can use a program like Fire instead, that is able to connect to all major networks (AIM, MSN, ICQ, Yahoo, etc) simultaneously, and have all my buddies in a single list. This alone, makes me disregard iChat completely (as well as all the other one-network centric clients), since it lacks this capability.

mjtomlin
Dec 12, 2003, 11:03 AM
The biggest difference between these chatting systems incorporating video and audio and that of Apple's is the others are trying to incorporate them into a communication model that is geared towards typing on a keyboard and reading responses as text on a screen. The end result, video and audio that's so awful, you immediately and instinctively go back to text chatting after a couple of minutes.

Apple's video chat system is completely different. They approach it from a real world point of view, that is, when you make a phone call to someone it's a one-on-one conversation. This is where Apple's choice is better for those who aren't used to online chatting and having multiple conversations going at once. You end up with a very clean and natural way of communicating with someone.

I believe Apple should port iChat A/V to Windows just for that reason alone. It's video and audio streaming is far superior than anything else out there. The only complaints you hear about it is that it doesn't support multiple sessions. Well there's a reason for that; bandwidth requirements.

It requires a broadband connection just to get a single session running smoothly. Throw in more than one session and the quality degrades. I do believe Apple should release (and charge for) a Pro version of iChat A/V that allows multiple sessions over a LAN, like say in a business setting where video conferencing is needed.

Anyway, there's nothing out there on any platform that can compare to the simplicity of iChat A/V and the quality... which brings me to the iSight camera.

I was chatting with a friend on Yahoo IM and had the webcam feature turned on (ugh, what a piece of crap that is). He actually commented on how nice the images were he was receiving from my camera and asked what kind of camera I had. That's how good the iSight is. He said they were the best he's seen from any other webcam. ;)

One other point I wanted to make, I like the simplicity in both of these products; iChat A/V and the iSight. I'm sure there are a thousand different features and functions that could be bolted on to both of them, however, the elegance lies in their simplicity. The ability to do what you want without the hassles of figuring it out. Communicating with someone should never become a frustrating experience.

HornetOSX
Dec 12, 2003, 11:10 AM
I'm not sure way this is a Mac rumor.

AOL does not have any Mac beta's right now ( I'm a beta tester for them ) the Curent AOL for OSX Does NOT have any video or audio features. And as always the mac version is falling behind the PeeCee Version. I think Steve and crew need to tell AOL if they want to do these music store deals with Apple.... they need to have feature parity.

gwuMACaddict
Dec 12, 2003, 11:42 AM
well... two thoughts...

apple ought to get iChat ported to windows before this all goes down

and

is this AOL program gonna reek havoc on my machine just like every other AOL product always has?

TomSmithMacEd
Dec 12, 2003, 12:03 PM
iSight and iChatAV sounds like the smartest things to port to the Windows world. I don't find any negitives. ONly positives. THe more people you can get to buy your product the better. Especiall for something like video conferencing. IT is tough to find someone else with a mac and an iSight!

zim
Dec 12, 2003, 12:20 PM
I personally love iChat, why do we need animated icons? I never even have the iChat buddies window open so I would never see them. iChat is the most stable chat application that I have used and I love how it is integrated with my address book and mail application.

Oh and iSight has other users besides iChat.. take a look at this http://www.toysight.com/ check out the video, pretty cool!!

imbriumink
Dec 12, 2003, 12:35 PM
I tried using iChat when I first got my powerbook back in September but quickly got annoyed with it. It's really annoying to have to press that accept button to see a message but not start to reply to it. It looks pretty and all, but it doesn't seem to be designed by people who actually use IMing software. And lack of profile is a bummer too. I switched to Adium. The only things missing from Adium are file transferring and menu bar integration. I don't use AV stuff, but if I did, I would probably use iChat.

Dahl
Dec 12, 2003, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by mjtomlin
Apple's video chat system is completely different. They approach it from a real world point of view, that is, when you make a phone call to someone it's a one-on-one conversation. This is where Apple's choice is better for those who aren't used to online chatting and having multiple conversations going at once. You end up with a very clean and natural way of communicating with someone.

Amen brother....

All those people saying iSight is too expensive are off, same thing with people who dislike iChat. The quality of iSight is very good and I would have paid two times what it cost.

Once you try iChat AV, going back to text chatting is almost a joke, I mean why bother ? The elegance of iChat AV is stunning, I chat with family on other other side of the world almost daily and it is as easy as turning on the Mac.
OK, I'm not a typical chatter, maybe that's where the difference is. I'm no teen with hours to kill and I do have a life, I don't really want to chat with a bunch of strangers, but being able to see my brother "live" every day it the best thing ( communication wise ) that have happened since email came around, if you ask me.

jared_kipe
Dec 12, 2003, 01:06 PM
Is anybody else bothered by the fact that the OSX version of Yahoo messenger is several revisions behind that of it's windows brother? What the hell is this? I want the features of Yahoo from windows, such as phone calls and video and sound. I don't really care about AIM, nobody I know uses it, but why not get a current version of the Yahoo messenger?

macMaestro
Dec 12, 2003, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by scat999999
Like MS, AOL (whom I actually have more disdain for than MS, if that's possible) wants you to use THEIR software and pay for THEIR service. They don't make any money unless you sign up for their service. Given all the people that have been dumping AOL service and just going with their broadband company as their ISP, AOL needs a carrot to keep their current customer base and get both new subscribers as well as some of the defectors back.

Well, since AOL's IM client is free, I don't see much sense in your argument.

pb1212580
Dec 12, 2003, 01:17 PM
Yahoo has Video for the mac version...but I can't get it to work with a reasonable frame rate. I am using isight.
anyone got any idea? I turned on everything in pref. such as "supervideo"? still slow.

Originally posted by jared_kipe
Is anybody else bothered by the fact that the OSX version of Yahoo messenger is several revisions behind that of it's windows brother? What the hell is this? I want the features of Yahoo from windows, such as phone calls and video and sound. I don't really care about AIM, nobody I know uses it, but why not get a current version of the Yahoo messenger?

jared_kipe
Dec 12, 2003, 01:23 PM
PC users do have viable webcam options, that are probably around the same quality as the iSight. For instance there is a new one from Logitech that kind of looks like the HAL 2000 and it even follows you as you move.

http://www.tomshardware.com/consumer/20031212/index.html

rjgjonker
Dec 12, 2003, 05:13 PM
IMHO, the most significant problem with iChat is still that it uses an IM system nobody uses. I have yet to meet a person that actually uses AIM, while I know hundreds of people with ICQ or MSN (eww). I hope the ICQ-AIM-integration will solve this.

Target
Dec 12, 2003, 05:50 PM
People have been wondering why Apple has not ported over iChat. This line from MacInTouch may be the answer. If Microsoft can't do it on a PC then how can Apple?

David Pogue talks about Microsoft's lack of iSight in his latest column for the N.Y. Times:

Of course, video chatting on a PC is easy enough using the built-in Windows Messenger program and a USB Web cam.
Unfortunately, it doesn't give you smooth video, it isn't in a big window, and you generally experience awkward delays between responses. Microsoft also notes that "If you are on a local area network behind a firewall (for example, a corporate network), you may not be able to connect on a computer-to-computer call with someone outside the firewall."
I did ask Microsoft if you could get iSight-quality video, at any cost-say, with a FireWire camera and a high-speed Internet connection. The response: "On the Windows XP platform, all the pieces aren't in place yet."

Tony

coolsoldier
Dec 12, 2003, 05:56 PM
Originally posted by rjgjonker
I have yet to meet a person that actually uses AIM, while I know hundreds of people with ICQ or MSN (eww).

That's weird...I only know one person who doesn't use AIM, and he uses Yahoo. I've never known anyone who used ICQ or MSN for messaging. Maybe it's just the people I hang out with, but a lot of them are AOL (or CompuServe) internet users, and those of us who are "buddies" with them default to the AIM network (or .Mac in my case ;) ) to communicate with them.

As for Video Chat, I find text chat much more useful than A/V, because with text chat, I can have a conversation (or even several conversations at once) without interrupting what I am doing. I can still browse the internet, check my email, and type documents while I am having my conversations. With A/V chat, it's a nice replacement for a phone call, but you have to set aside time where you are doing nothing else, which makes it quite inconvenient for normal use.

hbwill
Dec 12, 2003, 06:11 PM
Imagine an Apple email client that only worked with other Apple users. It is absurd. The point to this type of software is not brand but communication and functionality. The same goes for ichat AV. The idea that it is just for Apple users is absurd. I love ichat. I just never use it, because only 3-5% of my acquaintances use macs. Thus, Apple should either drop it, or port it to expand Apple's functionality (and to further stimulate interest in Apple). Apple must be interested in porting it to windows. What is the down side? Will it lead to fewer Mac sales? I find it doubtful that people are going to "switch" just to be able to use a video communication system that can only reach 3-5% of the market. It isn't a "switch" pitch. However, if ported, it could expand the functionality of Apple users (and their endorsements) into the windows environment; and lead to additional sales of iSite.

Dahl
Dec 12, 2003, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by coolsoldier
That's weird...I only know one person who doesn't use AIM, and he uses Yahoo. I've never known anyone who used ICQ or MSN for messaging. Maybe it's just the people I hang out with, but a lot of them are AOL (or CompuServe) internet users, and those of us who are "buddies" with them default to the AIM network (or .Mac in my case ;) ) to communicate with them.
rjgjonker is from Europe, where I believe ICQ is very popular.

Originally posted by coolsoldier
As for Video Chat, I find text chat much more useful than A/V, because with text chat, I can have a conversation (or even several conversations at once) without interrupting what I am doing. I can still browse the internet, check my email, and type documents while I am having my conversations. With A/V chat, it's a nice replacement for a phone call, but you have to set aside time where you are doing nothing else, which makes it quite inconvenient for normal use. Have you even tried video chats with iChat AV ?
I have helped my brother troubleshooting his Mac while we were chatting, we have surfed the same sites looking for info, checked emails and even downloaded QT movies. We do all this without writing back and forward.
Text chatting is good, but wait til video chats catches up, I think people will start to leave text chats. Audio chats are great too, the iSight have been strong enough for me, that I could be across the room and still have a regular chat.

SiliconAddict
Dec 12, 2003, 06:15 PM
Frankly I don't like AIM and from what I've seen iChat isn't much better at least when it comes to features. Give me Trillian any day. I've grown to love that app for its plethora of features and compatibilities with all the IM services that are out there.

To be honest I've never really even considered video conferencing mainly because I like lag time communications. When I chat with a person I can multitask and let a conversation sit a bit until I get back to them. Video is real time. It demands your focus from beginning of conversation to the end.

coolsoldier
Dec 12, 2003, 06:22 PM
Originally posted by Dahl
Have you even tried video chats with iChat AV ?


Yes. I chat with my family via iSight. And it's a big step up from a phone call. It is not the evolution of a text chat. A text chat is something you can do seamlessly in the background while typing, etc. A video chat doesn't give you enough "downtime" to get anything else done. With a text chat, you can do other things, and even chat with other people, while you are waiting for a response, and when a response comes you can read and reply at leisure. An A/V chat requires your constant attention and participation, which puts it in a totally different market than text chats, which are more of a side conversation. I always have a couple of IM windows open when I'm on the computer, no matter what else I'm doing. It's a side note to whatever I'm doing. Video chats don't work that way. They need constant attention.

danielfe
Dec 12, 2003, 06:30 PM
i find it useful to see one of my friends that went to a different school, that also has an isight. its about realtime when both ends are g4 , we sometimes will leave it running while we talk to someone else or something, but i could see how moost times u couldnt.

its not really an everyday communication thing, but its fun to see those that are far away or you dont get to see a lot.

it is quite easy to use

Dahl
Dec 12, 2003, 06:34 PM
"Video chats don't work that way. They need constant attention."

Why ?

Nobody tells you you even have to sit in front of your Mac while chatting.
I'm up and down, sittting and standing.
We have the iSights going for a long time, sometimes somebody leaves the room and I call the person and they return. Not a big deal, I'm not fast at typing so video chats are easy.

I agree text and video chats are different, but I have never been a fan of text chats. I prefer forums like these for text based communication to a large group of people.

coolsoldier
Dec 12, 2003, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by Dahl
I agree text and video chats are different, but I have never been a fan of text chats. I prefer forums like these for text based communication to a large group of people.

Maybe you have a different concept of "text chat" than I do. I NEVER get into chats with more than two users. That kills the dead time that I like about text chat in the first place. But for person to person communication, a public forum is not particularly efficient, and email lacks the spontaneous informality of a chat.

Large groups of people are a completely different story. Perhaps I should have said "Instant Message" instead of "Chat".

Dahl
Dec 12, 2003, 06:56 PM
We probably have different ways off describing thee same things.

:)

All I know is thhat I love my iSight and iChat AV and it have changed how I communicate with my family. I think that's what Apple was aiming for, when they released iChat.

nodmonkey
Dec 12, 2003, 07:31 PM
Originally posted by coolsoldier
That's weird...I only know one person who doesn't use AIM, and he uses Yahoo. I've never known anyone who used ICQ or MSN for messaging. Maybe it's just the people I hang out with.

It's a US thing. In the UK, for instance, MSN chat is the daddy. It makes having iChat even more useless in the UK because your friends can't (won't) even text chat with you on it.

MSN and Hotmail are very established norms here, Yahoo a second, AOL is few... and it isn't going to change, IM is like that, how could it change?

brianbobcat
Dec 13, 2003, 10:51 AM
He guys, i found this yesterday on my machine. To any iChat AV user this looks normal (except for the 2 SNs I took out for privacy), but the bottom phone is next to a Pee Cee user. Go here for more details:http://www.spymac.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=68365&papass=&sort=1&thecat=548

-Brian

kerni
Dec 13, 2003, 12:10 PM
I am wondering if audio chat works with the new beta of AIM and iChat AV. That would be at least a sign of hope

AgtAlpha
Dec 13, 2003, 01:38 PM
IIRC, iChat works with ICQ, just like AIM does. Instead of entering an AOL/AIM ScreenName, enter their IUN instead.

kerni
Dec 13, 2003, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by AgtAlpha
IIRC, iChat works with ICQ, just like AIM does. Instead of entering an AOL/AIM ScreenName, enter their IUN instead.

That does not work if you are logged in with an .mac account, works only with AIM accounts right now :-(

Knute5
Dec 13, 2003, 02:53 PM
The iPod's success bodes well for Firewire, making it easier for Apple to offer a select set of iApps (or .Mac w/ iChat) and bundle the iSight for Winfolk. Perhaps future iPods will work with iSights directly (audio/video recording) for added integration.

The more comfortable non-Mac users become with Apple products, the more likely Apple will gain switchers or adders. iPod and iTMS alone are great, but here's a chance to "embrace and extend."

JDOG_
Dec 14, 2003, 02:55 PM
Hmmm, what's wrong with iChat some of you have said? Let me list the ways:

-Can't add people to your buddy list.

I can see existing people that I've had on there before using iChat, but trying to add new people (even from address cards) evokes a "feedbag error." I might add it was like this with a new iBook G4 and continued to do the same thing after re-installing iChat twice. Frankly, adding people to your buddy list is the second-most important feature of AIM next to actually chatting.

-No moving icons.

This is a feature that was around since like 1992--come on now Apple.

-Away Messages?

Why is every message I've ever used saved?...better yet, why can't I get rid of them?!?

-Status bar icon doesn't correspond with the program running...

I can "set my status" from the menu bar at the top of the screen, but to actually start up iChat, I need to run the application--shouldn't that happen when I change the status icon?

-No profile or personality info

enough said really...for an AIM-based program, not having a feature that allows you to make profiles (yet view them?!?) is a travesty.

-Bad grouping

Shape symbols for groups is one thing, but there's no grouping or grouping titles, just shapes & a list that's hidden on top. How can you leave something like this out?

-Multi-user functionality

When iChat starts it always logs in as me, in order to change I need to go into prefrences and change the account completely & re-start the program to have it take effect...multi-users is something AIM is not only fully capable of, but easy to do..come on now :confused:

-----------

iChat does offer more aestheticly than most other chat programs, but I find it sad I have to revert to the Mac version of AOL AIM just to get an admittedly less-pretty version of iChat that works a lot better as a messenging program. If Apple would fix these things, iChat would be a great program--but like iPhoto, it's underdeveloped and quirky. :(

Sunrunner
Dec 14, 2003, 03:00 PM
I agree that iChat could really use some beefing up... While I understand that it is a relatively new program and AOL IM has had a LOT more time to mature, Apple is sleeping at the wheel on this one.

coolsoldier
Dec 14, 2003, 04:00 PM
I can answer a few of those...
Originally posted by JDOG_ Why is every (status) message I've ever used saved?...better yet, why can't I get rid of them?!?
Try this: in the list of status messages (at the top of your buddy list), click "Edit Status Messages..." to delete away messages. While you're at it, uncheck "remember custom messages". That should be in preferences, but it's there nonetheless.


-Status bar icon doesn't correspond with the program running...

I can "set my status" from the menu bar at the top of the screen, but to actually start up iChat, I need to run the application--shouldn't that happen when I change the status icon?

You can connect to iChat when iChat isn't running. I find this to be a huge advantage. The program only needs to be running when you are actually chatting. IMO this is not a drawback.


-Bad grouping

Shape symbols for groups is one thing, but there's no grouping or grouping titles, just shapes & a list that's hidden on top. How can you leave something like this out?


How does the "Groups" drawer on the buddy list window not cover this?


-Multi-user functionality

When iChat starts it always logs in as me, in order to change I need to go into prefrences and change the account completely & re-start the program to have it take effect...multi-users is something AIM is not only fully capable of, but easy to do..come on now :confused:


Assuming you've set up iChat on your own user account, this shouldn't be a problem. iChat should only log into AIM as you when you are logged in as you :rolleyes:


iChat is a little buggy. It's not completely refined, but in all honesty, neither is AIM. The system integration is to me more valuable than animated buddy icons or profiles. It is useful to have my buddy list cross-referenced with my address book, and to see when my buddies are online in mail, and a few other "surprises" that pop up every now and then.

The only thing I would like to see in iChat is away message autoreplies. Right now I use the iCAR extension to do autoreplies, but needing an extension flies in the face of "It just works".

rmiller021
Dec 15, 2003, 08:26 AM
The iSight will work with windows without a problem. Windows can use the video feed from it adjust the brightness, and auto focus. Just no audio. I'm almost sure you need a 6 pin firewire port to do it. The webcam on my website is a feed from the iSight I have plugged into my Xeon Workstation running windows XP.

vanmonkey
Dec 15, 2003, 12:15 PM
porting iChat?
Bad idea... What's next, iPhoto, iMovie, iDVD???
Might as well port Panther wile your at it, and we can all live happily ever after using PCs! Never mind that apple in in the buisness of selling computers.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I only know four people with macs. And two fo them live in this house with me, so I don't do a lot of mac to mac chatting.
Everybody I know is on MSN, so that's how I talk to them.
What would be cool for me, is MSN, Yahoo, and ICQ compatibility in iChat. Then as each of the others develop their video chating, work that compatibility into iChat too. That's a way to sell macs, "iChat, it just works...with everything!"

Dahl
Dec 15, 2003, 12:38 PM
Originally posted by vanmonkey
What would be cool for me, is MSN, Yahoo, and ICQ compatibility in iChat. Then as each of the others develop their video chating, work that compatibility into iChat too.
The question here is if any of the windows apps will support iChat AV.

7on
Dec 15, 2003, 05:29 PM
The question is not whether apple will do it, but rather if other companies will let them. I doubt Microsoft will let Apple use their services without a high licensing fee. And what many people fail to see is that multi-service clients like Fire, Adium, or Trillian are not supported by any of the corporations. Apple is the only other company to get another company to share it's services. That is why these multi-chat clients usually loose support for a service (like GAIM and MSN not too long ago) because the corps update their services thus making it incompatible for unofficial clients. Not only is Apple the first to do this with AIM, most of you are asking it also be the fist with MSN and Yahoo. While this is technically possible, there are too many legalities with it.

As far with porting iChat to Windows, why? I throughly believe that when AIM introduces video/audio chat it will be compatible with iChat because of the license AOL and Apple have. It would be bad business it AOL declines this service for Apple, since AOL already lets Apple use it's services. And with the right drivers, iSight is usable on the PC. It even shows up in the hardware manager as Apple_iSight or something similar. MS has some products rumored for a showing at MWSF, so lets hope for MSN messenger 6. I have Yahoo, iChat, MSN, iVisit, and Xchat all on my computer. Why? Because stand alone clients always are better than all-in-one solutions. That's what Exposť or cmd+TABing is for.

tomtom651
Dec 16, 2003, 02:18 PM
Just to let you know iChat is made by AOL not Apple. Apple only owns the name. Aol deveoped iChat itself. An apple support rep told me that i had to call AOL for support because mac doesnt provide it.

If you dont belive me call apple 1-800-apl-care

coolsoldier
Dec 16, 2003, 03:26 PM
AOL obviously was involved in creating iChat (or at least the instant message framework), since they own the OSCAR protocol.
HOWEVER, Apple, not AOL, does own the copyright to the program.
Also, I would assume that Apple is at least partially responsible for the updating and maintaining of iChat, since it bears their name.
So, AOL does not "own" iChat, even if they were involved in creating it.