Defective nVidia GPUs?

[Wormy23]

This is probably why our MBP's are so HOT! If you can still buy AppleCare, you better buy it now just in case!


Article from Engadget:

NVIDIA says "significant quantities" of laptop GPUs are defective, stock tumbles (http://www.engadget.com/2008/07/02/nvidia-says-significant-quantities-of-laptop-gpus-are-defectiv/)

If you're the type to watch the late stock tickers, you might have noticed that NVIDIA's stock just took a pretty big hit, down 24 percent to $13.56 -- that's because the company just informed investors that "significant quantities" of previous-generation graphics chips have been failing at "higher than normal rates," and that it's lowering its Q2 estimates due to pricing pressure. NVIDIA will be taking a $150M to $250M charge against earnings next quarter to cover the cost of repairing and replacing the affected chips, but didn't specifically announce what products were defective, just that they include GPUs and "media and communications processors." Laptop makers have apparently already been given an updated GPU driver which kicks in fans sooner to reduce "thermal stress" on the GPU, and NVIDIA says it's talking to its suppliers about being reimbursed for the faulty parts. That's great and all, but we'd really rather know which chips specifically are failing -- if you're serious about playing in the big leagues, you better come clean, guys.

[ilifecomputer]

This worried me as well. It's interesting to note their suggestion that their discoveries are only the tip of the iceberg, that, future problems with current and past cards are possible. Ouch! I hope this doesn't affect us. With that, I've taken interest in finally downloading smc fan control for this notebook. Can anyone answer this for me:

Even if you set the fans at a higher default speed (or load speed), will they still speed up if the heat rises and requires such an increase (on top of what i have already increased)? Anyone know exactly how this is handled? Thanks in advance. :apple:

[SchneiderMan]

i hope they get it fixed in less then a month untill i get mine :D
plus the screen gap on all the mbp are somewhat defective for a $2,000+ laptop

[Tracer]

If Apple's parts are included in this, expect some sort of Replacement Program.

Tracer

[Tallest Skil]

If Apple's parts are included in this, expect some sort of Replacement Program.

How do you replace a GPU that's part of the logic board? It's not a card-style mobile graphics card.

[Fabreze]

Do you think that this mistake by Nvidia could encourage Apple to start using the card style GPU's to be safe?

[mox123]

did they use the same or different NVDIA cards for the santa rosa MBP vs. Penryn MBP?

[noodle654]

did they use the same or different NVDIA cards for the santa rosa MBP vs. Penryn MBP?

Its the name, just different amount of VRAM. It kind makes sense because my 128MB 8600 diode runs very hot...about 20*F higher than my CPU. We will see what happens in the next week.

[wrldwzrd89]

Hey, there are two threads about this. The other one is here (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=510228) - though this thread is larger I think the other one is in a more appropriate section.

That said, I think this is bad news for nVidia - on top of the news that Apple went with OpenCL instead of nVidia's CUDA technology, this event will make things especially hard for them.

[quagmire]

Its the name, just different amount of VRAM. It kind makes sense because my 128MB 8600 diode runs very hot...about 20*F higher than my CPU. We will see what happens in the next week.

GPU's do tend to run hotter then the CPU. My Penryn MBP's GPU is running at 137 F and the CPU is currently at 113 F( not fully warmed up yet). On my 12" Powerbook G4, the CPU would run at 114 F and the GPU at 129 F once warmed up.

[sixth]

I think this is going to effect all 8-series GPU's in any mobile form. If they are telling investors to prepare for 200-million worth of repairs than its serious...thats A LOT of cards. If you hop on some Dell boards and look at all the M1530 video issues its inevitable that its going to effect MBP's too. The only way its not is if Apple is getting their cards from a different manufacturer than Dell, etc than hopefully we should be ok. Either way this a really big blow to nVidia and to OEM's that are using ANY 8-Series(MOBILE) chip.

If you look at all the problems that have been posted on the board here with people saying they are having a ton of video problems, now we can tie some of those problems to the 8600...not good in my eyes.

[zflauaus]

Ahh damn. And just as I'm about to buy my MBP too.

I agree with the others. Seriously, nVidia, you should have told us which ones were/are affected.

[kabunaru]

ATI cards for the next MacBook Pros, no more of this Nvidia crap. :rolleyes:;)

[mox123]

Its the name, just different amount of VRAM. It kind makes sense because my 128MB 8600 diode runs very hot...about 20*F higher than my CPU. We will see what happens in the next week.

Darn...i was hoping that my Penryn MBP won't be affected by this...:rolleyes:

[Cadium]

Hopefully the chips which are affected are only limited to the GeForce 6xxx or 7xxx lines.

[djcraze]

I was just about to call Apple today because my Graphics Card keeps dying. The screen keeps fudging up, and giving me crazy boxes and mismatching areas on the screen... its quite annoying and requires a restart, so I guess I'm affected :(.

[dizastor]

Thank god for intel integrated graphics.
;)

[Axemantitan]

ATI cards for the next MacBook Pros, no more of this Nvidia crap. :rolleyes:;)

Yes. Hopefully it will be the 3800 series, which can support Blu-Ray Drives. (http://ati.amd.com/products/MobilityRadeonhd3800/index.html)

[kabunaru]

Yes. Hopefully it will be the 3800 series, which can support Blu-Ray Drives. (http://ati.amd.com/products/MobilityRadeonhd3800/index.html)

Those will be perfect for the MacBook Pros. Besides, ATI cards are better for Pro Apps any ways which the MacBook Pro was meant for.
Pro Apps work on the go. :D

[swarmster]

Thank god for intel integrated graphics.
;)

Eww, don't even joke about stuff like that.

Bring back the ATI cards! ATI always treated the Mac better anyway, and tends to have faster laptop chips. Jobs needs to get over it; the iMac G4 leak was so long ago!

Edit: Wait, that was Time Canada. The ATI leak was even longer ago! Canadians are your friends!

[rlm22b]

...With that, I've taken interest in finally downloading smc fan control for this notebook. Can anyone answer this for me:

Even if you set the fans at a higher default speed (or load speed), will they still speed up if the heat rises and requires such an increase (on top of what i have already increased)? Anyone know exactly how this is handled? Thanks in advance. :apple:

I'd like to know this as well.

[Mark Booth]

I wonder if this will turn out to have something to do with the MacBook Pro Vertical Stripes On Display (http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1423301) issue?

Mark

[sighlent]

I wonder if this will turn out to have something to do with the MacBook Pro Vertical Stripes On Display (http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1423301) issue?

Mark

Probably not, that is a power management issue with the LED backlighting.

[operator207]

Thank god for intel integrated graphics.
;)

The same can be said for that 4mb video card I still have laying around to use in some PC hardware servers if the integrated goes bad. Oh wait, the integrated IS an Intel chip. Oh well...

[sighlent]

It most likely has relevance to this problem

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1419469&tstart=0

Which I think Apple still hasn't addressed

[sixth]

I'd like to know this as well.

To answer the question yes. Say you set your fans at 4000RPM, and the laptop needs to go higher it will go higher....you are just setting the MINUIM fan speed not the maxium....so use it...its a great program, i have mine set at 4800ROM on my 2 year old Merom, just because I dont like to burn my legs :-)...

[motulist]

I wonder if this will turn out to have something to do with the MacBook Pro Vertical Stripes On Display (http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1423301) issue?

Mark

Doubtful. That problem looks like a backlight bleed problem which should have nothing to do with any sort of circuitry.

[kabunaru]

It most likely has relevance to this problem

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1419469&tstart=0

Which I think Apple still hasn't addressed

Apple always has problems with their MacBook Pros. Apple can never seem to get the MacBook Pro right, especially the 15" version. :rolleyes:

[e12a]

i think its more of the artifacts that are present after waking from sleep, or the whole display being scrambled.

[MrCrowbar]

This worried me as well. It's interesting to note their suggestion that their discoveries are only the tip of the iceberg, that, future problems with current and past cards are possible. Ouch! I hope this doesn't affect us. With that, I've taken interest in finally downloading smc fan control for this notebook. Can anyone answer this for me:

Even if you set the fans at a higher default speed (or load speed), will they still speed up if the heat rises and requires such an increase (on top of what i have already increased)? Anyone know exactly how this is handled? Thanks in advance. :apple:

SMC Fan control only raises the minimum fan speed. So if your Macbook has 1500 rpm minimum, you can raise that to say 2500 rpm to get the Macbook a little cooler when almost idling. Neat for when you use it on your lap. When your Macbook gets hotter, the fan speed just rises normally. Downsides are: Laptop is louder on low load, uses more battery and your fan might die a little sooner.

[Columbo X]

Does anyone know if the 8600 in the MBP dynamically scales according to temperature (on some games I get a slowdown after playing for a while that remains until I quit and reload some time later - could be many other variables, but this has got me thinking)?

[Kinderhauz]

I own stock in NVDA. I am getting absolutely slaughtered on this stuff. I strongly believe in NVDA and I wish I had saved my money -- I think the stock is very attractive at this price.

[MagnusVonMagnum]

Apple always has problems with their MacBook Pros. Apple can never seem to get the MacBook Pro right, especially the 15" version. :rolleyes:

I keep putting off my MBP purchase because of basically just that. If you spend $2000+ on a laptop, you should get something near perfect. That's a LOT of money to spend on something that can be had for essentially half the price in the Windows world and probably without all the problems. First it was the keyboard issue that resulted in missing first letters (absolutely unacceptable for a $2000 computer to have a problem with a $5 part and then take YEARS to even address it). I wanted a decent GPU but now I'm thinking maybe a Macbook is a better idea. I know there's way better GPUs just about to come out (like 40% faster) and that has been delaying my purchase again. I mainly need a machine to run Logic Pro and it doesn't need good graphics. I'd hoped to be able to play some games while on the road (on a Windows bootcamp side if nothing else), but maybe it's just not worth all the hassles and added cost?

[Shasterball]

First it was the keyboard issue that resulted in missing first letters (absolutely unacceptable for a $2000 computer to have a problem with a $5 part and then take YEARS to even address it).

Wasn't this a software problem? I had it, and it was patched...

[CanadianGuy]

My MacBook Pro (Santa Rosa) has an NVIDIA 8600 in it and it fried on me. Wouldn't display video on the LCD or external monitors, but the system was still working, used Firewire Target mode etc with no screen.

Took it to the Apple store in Yorkdale and they replace the logic board. I had 2 weeks left on the warranty (and then purchased AppleCare to extend it).

Now using SMC Fan Control to monitor the temp and increase fan speed (plus added a fan base thing for while in my office). My temp is now around 50-60C instead of the 70+C.

[BenRoethig]

This could be bad. This would hit the MBP real hard for town main reasons. First, the ultra thin design puts more thermal stress than thicker, less aesthetically pleasing designs. Second, to make it as thin as possible, both the GPU and CPU are soldered to the motherboard. AS opposed to MXM graphics modules and CPU Socket. That makes the repair a lot more expensive.

[scrambledwonder]

You should almost always get AppleCare. And a big old backup drive. And maybe a backup computer too . . . Yeah, it's a lot, but if you rely on your machine for work/life, it's worth it. Losing productivity while your machine is repaired can cost a ton.

Having said that, yeah, my MBP gets stupid hot when I do anything with graphics. Thus I always use some sort of cooling stand when running Aperture/Photoshop/Illustrator/Games. I think it's necessary and has been for a long time. I had to use a cooling stand on my old 1 GHz 12-inch PowerBook. These things just run hot.

Hopefully within the next five years we'll see a breakthrough in computing that'll really cool off computers (and reduce their power consumption).

[blaaat]

My MacBook Pro (Santa Rosa) has an NVIDIA 8600 in it and it fried on me. Wouldn't display video on the LCD or external monitors, but the system was still working, used Firewire Target mode etc with no screen.

Took it to the Apple store in Yorkdale and they replace the logic board. I had 2 weeks left on the warranty (and then purchased AppleCare to extend it).

Now using SMC Fan Control to monitor the temp and increase fan speed (plus added a fan base thing for while in my office). My temp is now around 50-60C instead of the 70+C.

Currently have my macbook pro in for warrenty for exactly the same problem, no video, no DVI video, but was able to connect thru screen sharing.

System details reporting that it has a GMA X3100 in graphics card.
Already 2 weeks without my system damn.

Edit: also a santa rosa with a NVIDIA 8600

[kabunaru]

I keep putting off my MBP purchase because of basically just that. If you spend $2000+ on a laptop, you should get something near perfect. That's a LOT of money to spend on something that can be had for essentially half the price in the Windows world and probably without all the problems. First it was the keyboard issue that resulted in missing first letters (absolutely unacceptable for a $2000 computer to have a problem with a $5 part and then take YEARS to even address it). I wanted a decent GPU but now I'm thinking maybe a Macbook is a better idea. I know there's way better GPUs just about to come out (like 40% faster) and that has been delaying my purchase again. I mainly need a machine to run Logic Pro and it doesn't need good graphics. I'd hoped to be able to play some games while on the road (on a Windows bootcamp side if nothing else), but maybe it's just not worth all the hassles and added cost?

Get the MacBook then. It would be good enough for you.
Just what games do you play? That's the question...
MacBooks seem to have less problems than the MacBook Pros.

[Denali9]

My GPU died the day after my warranty expired. Apple agreed to cover it but I could not buy applecare. Now i'm afraid to push my MBP SR 2.2 and break it again. If we can get some kind of recall or extension on GPU related problem, it would be nice.

[blaaat]

My GPU died the day after my warranty expired. Apple agreed to cover it but I could not buy applecare. Now i'm afraid to push my MBP SR 2.2 and break it again. If we can get some kind of recall or extension on GPU related problem, it would be nice.

mine was broken 2 days before the warrenty expired (a bit of luck after all). also a 2.2

[gr8bob]

Similar thing happened with my MBP.. replaced the logic board once due to graphic glitches on the initial servicing only to be greeted again by corrupted graphics texture in Leopard after the logic board was replaced..:mad:

What apple is going to do about this? Replace all defective boards? Issue a patch to tweak the fan system? or worse, downclock the 8600GT? :rolleyes:

P/S: It's a late 2007 2.2GHz Merom MBP.

[thejadedmonkey]

Apple always has problems with their MacBook Pros. Apple can never seem to get the MacBook Pro right, especially the 15" version. :rolleyes:

Nahh, My C2D MBP works great. But, it's also got an ATI card in it ;)

[depaulsunny]

I just want to clarify that the previous generation of macbook pro is known to have the complaint of overheating due to GPU and the color temp. changes when waking the screen from sleep or after a graphics intensive application.. I had this problem and the apple representative told me that they had got quite a number of that problem lately. I had contacted the representative in mid-feb or early-march and there is a chance that the 'quite a lot of complaints' was just a coincidence and the above problem refers only to newest GPUs.. but anyway I was offered a free logic board change and thermal modules change..

[surferfromuk]

I think some more info is needed.

Nvidia need to state which cards and not just play 'wait and see'. That is going to crucify them more than anything.

Basically anyone with an NVidia card is under some mysterious unknown threat of future failure now...

Now my MBP run's hot but how hot's normal ? Anyone know ?

I'm 46C at idle but I've seen close to 80C when hammering things with Motion and FCP...

If that's likely to create a premature death scenario I think I have a right to know...

I realise this isn't Apple's fault but Apple are going to have to grab Nvidia by the balls and make the fess up, deal with a fix and cool everyone's jets.

[sixth]

I think some more info is needed.

Nvidia need to state which cards and not just play 'wait and see'. That is going to crucify them more than anything.

Basically anyone with an NVidia card is under some mysterious unknown threat of future failure now...

Now my MBP run's hot but how hot's normal ? Anyone know ?

I'm 46C at idle but I've seen close to 80C when hammering things with Motion and FCP...

If that's likely to create a premature death scenario I think I have a right to know...

I realise this isn't Apple's fault but Apple are going to have to grab Nvidia by the balls and make the fess up, deal with a fix and cool everyone's jets.

Agreed.

I am not up on who actually manufacturers nVidia's silicon and processors (TSMC?) but....There was a post either on here or another news site that mentioned that it has to do with the actual manufacturing process and the silicon used cant take the heat that the card produces. Its not that the cards get to hot, its that the heat they produce and GRADE (quality) of silicon used cant take the heat/stress of the GPU.

I think it comes down cheap-bad-junky silicon used by whoever made the chips + crappy power usuage and horrible power-to-heat ratio of the GPU's....feel free to correct me...

[depaulsunny]

I'm 46C at idle but I've seen close to 80C when hammering things with Motion and FCP....

I got my notebook repaired coz it was running at 65C. I think ur in a very very bad situation..

[style]

my MBP just died few days ago, nothing showing in both internal and external monitor, but system can be booted and able to use target disk mode...I knew it was the graphic chip died

Apple better provide some free replacement scheme for the MBP thats using this chip...with and without applecare, just like the faulty sony battery few years ago, except this is going to cost much more than just a battery

[surferfromuk]

I got my notebook repaired coz it was running at 65C. I think ur in a very very bad situation..

Oh bum!! Did you contact Apple cos it was hot ? What did you tell them ?

[rexapollo]

I have a August '07 MBP. It has had horrible problems with the screen... sent it in to get fixed. One week later it was still broken. Sent it back... replaced the NVIDIA card and logic board. So, this problem has indeed been bad from my vantage point.

[depaulsunny]

Oh bum!! Did you contact Apple cos it was hot ? What did you tell them ?

I called them up one day and told them that my MBP is getting really hot.. They first told me some stuff about it being a notebook and not a laptop and so it is normal.. I told them that the system is running at 65C and i cant keep it on my lap at all. Also I told them that whenever i turn off the screen alone without making my mac go into sleep, it cools very fast.. then they put me on with a product specialist who arranged the repair right away..

[surferfromuk]

OK, So I just loaded Motion with 25 HD resolution particle emitters and ran it for 10 mins...

These are the results ;

Graphics processor Temp Diode : 78C
Graphics Processor Heatsink : 70C
CPU A Temperature Diode : 78C
Main Heatsink 1 : 63C
Main Heatsink 2 : 44C
Main Heatsink 3: 51C
Enclosure Bottomside :33C

The aluminium bar behind the keyboard is VERY HOT as is the centre underside behind the battery.

Is this something I should be contacting Apple about or is it to be expected ?

P.S : Update : After stopping motion it's back down to 54C in about 2 mins...

[depaulsunny]

OK, So I just loaded Motion with 25 HD resolution particle emitters and ran it for 10 mins...

These are the results ;

Graphics processor Temp Diode : 78C
Graphics Processor Heatsink : 70C
CPU A Temperature Diode : 78C
Main Heatsink 1 : 63C
Main Heatsink 2 : 44C
Main Heatsink 3: 51C
Enclosure Bottomside :33C

The aluminimum bar behind the keyboard is VERY HOT as is the centre underside behind the battery.

Is this something I should be contacting Apple about or is it to be expected ?
I had the exact same problem!! But my temperature never reached your record levels!! I'd say call dem now b4 ur notebook melts.. :eek:
anyway if your MBP is still under warranty, when u call dem make sure u dont have any app running coz they will just tell u that its the app thats making your notebook hot.. u know, to save money..
good luck!

[effer]

This problem sounds huge. I rarely run graphic intensive apps, but I may avoid such programs altogether now.

I have seen, on a few occasions, a garbled screen on my 2.2 MBP and I knew right away that it was the GPU. It is very similar to videocard failure on the PC from overclocking and/or heat issues.

And don't count on nVidia to be open with the details of this problem. Think MS and the xbox360. The company exists for the benefit of the shareholders, and they will quietly try to salvage their business without tell us exactly what to expect.

If failure rates increase with product age this could be a nasty time bomb...

[jacjac3]

Please recall on new penryns!!!! The vertical strip problem is BS I don't expect this from a 2k laptop. Especially from a company like apple

[noodle654]

I really cant believe that this could happen. I run my computer very hard (2.2GHz) in Bootcamp to the point that I have to stop because I can feel the heat coming off the computer. We probably wont hear anything until Monday though (4th of July!!).

[surferfromuk]

I had the exact same problem!! But my temperature never reached your record levels!! I'd say call dem now b4 ur notebook melts.. :eek:
anyway if your MBP is still under warranty, when u call dem make sure u dont have any app running coz they will just tell u that its the app thats making your notebook hot.. u know, to save money..
good luck!

Thanks for that..

It's still under warranty - only a couple of months old.

Do they take it away or send a replacement ? Can you get it fixed at an Apple store ?

I can't really be without it for a long time and I'm always dubious about 'repairs'....

[slexus]

well well, its finally out in the open. mac's are very much affected by this, please see:

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1065674

or look for "NVChannel crash" with your favorite search engine. i suspected a serious hardware problem immediately and i've written several posts about it under the same name on apple discussions. good to see im so damn smart after all, bad to know i have a $2500 piece of junk in my hands with only a few months warranty left to figure out what to do now (santa rosa 2.4 mbp).

there's a skype public chat opened for some live problem handling strategy discussion:

http://www.skype.com/go/joinpublicchat?blob=av3jHLm0OLYfHx8qZWfQDRIeeFahZe9jHqkeVy-VMimZmg4un1waUfbfKmSAOINNR_KuKKlf5_pEqPdZzLuBtYNIiYDAsLUtTtuUpQDydpSr2bdfsKnfIG2t-e1ZXwczXLsL086rbbs

in conclusion: this is a crappy crappy situation to be in since frankly there are no really good alternatives to the MBP + OS X combination.

[kabunaru]

Nahh, My C2D MBP works great. But, it's also got an ATI card in it ;)

Because ATI cards have less problems than Nvidia cards. ;)

[noodle654]

Because ATI cards have less problems than Nvidia cards. ;)

Why did Apple change to nVidia? I really favor either chip manufacturer. I think they both make awesome graphics. I really dont think Apple is going to change back over to ATI...but after this whole thing, they might.

[depaulsunny]

Thanks for that..

It's still under warranty - only a couple of months old.

Do they take it away or send a replacement ? Can you get it fixed at an Apple store ?

I can't really be without it for a long time and I'm always dubious about 'repairs'....

i'm not sure of replacement. they give the other two options though..

[kabunaru]

Why did Apple change to nVidia?

Aren't Nvidia cards cheaper or something?

[surferfromuk]

i'm not sure of replacement. they give the other two options though..

So what temp does your current MBP run at in Idle and under load ?

Does it no longer get hot/warm at all now ?

Did your old one run at 65C under load or at idle ?

[quagmire]

With my MBP warmed up here are my temps. Though my iPhone is plugged in so the temps are a bit higher the usual.

[commander.data]

I'm not sure high operating temperature is a reliable indicator of a defective unit. Intel mobile processors are designed to operate at up to 100C. I don't now what the max operating temperature of GPUs are but it would probably be similar, especially seeing that Gigabyte sells a passively cooled desktop 8600GTS that runs at 99C under load.

http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/12537/7

[surferfromuk]

With my MBP warmed up here are my temps. Though my iPhone is plugged in so the temps are a bit higher the usual.

Interesting..so by warm do you mean sat idling albeit with your iphone plugged in...

If so they are actually higher than mine at idle...

CPU A: 49C
GPU Diode: 52C
GPU Sink : 47C
HSink 1 : 46C
Hsink 2: 38C
Hsink 3: 40C
Wireless Mod : 37C
Memory : 40C
Enclosure : 31C
Disk : 36C

[Columbo X]

From iStat Pro, during idling I get the following temps:

CPU 50
GPU diode 60-66
GPU heatsink 53-55
No audible fan activity

After playing Doom 3 for 10 minutes

CPU 60
GPU diode 78
GPU heatsink 60
Fans ramp up and stay on until GPU diode temp <70

So, are there any figures for "normal" or acceptable temperatures on the MBP?

[looking4anotebo]

I keep putting off my MBP purchase because of basically just that. If you spend $2000+ on a laptop, you should get something near perfect. That's a LOT of money to spend on something that can be had for essentially half the price in the Windows world and probably without all the problems. First it was the keyboard issue that resulted in missing first letters (absolutely unacceptable for a $2000 computer to have a problem with a $5 part and then take YEARS to even address it). I wanted a decent GPU but now I'm thinking maybe a Macbook is a better idea. I know there's way better GPUs just about to come out (like 40% faster) and that has been delaying my purchase again. I mainly need a machine to run Logic Pro and it doesn't need good graphics. I'd hoped to be able to play some games while on the road (on a Windows bootcamp side if nothing else), but maybe it's just not worth all the hassles and added cost?


Has then been addressed yet for Tiger users? I have had this annoying problem since day 1 on my 2.2 ghz MBP. I know it was fixed for Leopard a few months ago.

[surferfromuk]

From iStat Pro, during idling I get the following temps:

CPU 50
GPU diode 60-66
GPU heatsink 53-55
No audible fan activity

After playing Doom 3 for 10 minutes

CPU 60
GPU diode 78
GPU heatsink 60
Fans ramp up and stay on until GPU diode temp <70

So, are there any figures for "normal" or acceptable temperatures on the MBP?

Hopefully after a few more people post some results we'll start to get a spread and maybe figure this out..

Interesting that your idle GPU diode is significantly hotter than mine and yet your sink is significantly cooler than mine under load - I don't know what that means...

[looking4anotebo]

With Firefox open, light browsing 30 minutes or so.

[quagmire]

Interesting..so by warm do you mean sat idling albeit with your iphone plugged in...

If so they are actually higher than mine at idle...

CPU A: 49C
GPU Diode: 52C
GPU Sink : 47C
HSink 1 : 46C
Hsink 2: 38C
Hsink 3: 40C
Wireless Mod : 37C
Memory : 40C
Enclosure : 31C
Disk : 36C

I mean warmed up is the computer getting to its normal operating temps. Once I unplug my iPhone, my CPU temp at least should drop by 10 F.

[martychang]

Aren't Nvidia cards cheaper or something?

Not for a long time. When the 8800's were first released they were a better value for money, despite being more expensive. ATI has been less expensive for a while, and have been a better value for money since the HD 3000 series. The 2600XT was also better than the 8600's if I remember correctly, causing them to do well in the midrange(though the midrange in general was quite poor game at the time).

[Stridder44]

Please recall on new penryns!!!! The vertical strip problem is BS I don't expect this from a 2k laptop. Especially from a company like apple


Don't see how that has anything to do with Nvidia. O_o

Anyway, hope they get this fixed soon.

[surferfromuk]

I mean warmed up is the computer getting to its normal operating temps. Once I unplug my iPhone, my CPU temp at least should drop by 10 F.

Are you able to do a load test ?

We've now got two MBP's (inc mine) that are reading 78C under heavy load for about 10mins...

[fleshman03]

Hopefully after a few more people post some results we'll start to get a spread and maybe figure this out..

Interesting that your idle GPU diode is significantly hotter than mine and yet your sink is significantly cooler than mine under load - I don't know what that means...

Computer was in sleep mode and I just come home, sent an email and looked at the thread. This MBP is 2 weeks old.

I'll post a stress image in a little while.

[guzhogi]

How do you replace a GPU that's part of the logic board? It's not a card-style mobile graphics card.

they replace the whole motherboard. I had the graphics card go bad on my MBP twice. Not sure if it was related to this or not. Fortunately, got it repaired for free both times, but the last time they fixed it, it came back with the internal speakers not working so it's in the shop again.

[MagnusVonMagnum]

Wasn't this a software problem? I had it, and it was patched...

Hence the reason I said it took them YEARS to address it. As I recall, it took them over 2 years to fix the problem. I was just about to place an order for an MBP last November when I was looking at buying a new computer and then I ran into that bug report and changed my mind. I do need my keyboard to function.

I've also seen reports that Apple keyboards require much harder key presses to register which can lead to an unrelated but similar problem. I can verify that the keyboard that came with this PowerMac does indeed require very hard presses compared to most keyboards I've used. I've since purchased a Logitech USB keyboard to replace it. I miss the nifty USB ports (now use a hub), but I don't miss the keys themselves. I suppose that problem is unavoidable until they get a different keyboard on the MBP.

[MagnusVonMagnum]

Get the MacBook then. It would be good enough for you.
Just what games do you play? That's the question...
MacBooks seem to have less problems than the MacBook Pros.

Well, let's see. I just bought some games that range from 1-3 years old or so. A Macbook should be capable of playing 3 year old PC game under Boot Camp right? I've got Half Life 2, Test Drive Unlimited, Tiger Woods Golf 2006, Knights of the Old Republic 2, GTR2, Need For Speed Carbon and Pro Street, Madden 2007, NeverWinter Nights 1 & 2. Should I name more? None of these are cutting edge. Will they run on a Macbook with Boot Camp? Is it going to be good enough for me if I want to play some of my games on it? I already know the answer, but my point is the Macbook isn't really 'good enough' for ANYONE that has ANY interest in 3D gaming what-so-ever. It's awful in that regard and there's no reason for it to be THAT bad. They could include an older, lower power card, but they don't/won't as it MIGHT cannibalize their MBP sales. That's the excuse they use for everything. Why sell you something for $1000 when we can sell you something for $2000? Um, maybe because the $1000 PC laptops can play several of those games and the Macbook cannot? Apple needs to stop using 3D graphics as a hedge to force you to buy hardware you otherwise don't need, IMO.

[TheReef]

mine was broken 2 days before the warrenty expired (a bit of luck after all). also a 2.2

My PowerBook G4 broke a few days before Applecare would have expired if I had it. :mad:
It was such a shame, the whole machine was good except for the video card which can't be replaced without switching out the pricey logic board.
It would be great if Apple offered some extended repair program for this.

[quagmire]

This is when running X-Plane. Fans are at 4700 RPM.

[Chris F]

CPU temps of 80C under full load are fine, heck I would call it good.

Anything under 100C is within spec, damage will not occur till 120C.

My SR MBP gets up to 98C doing handbrake encodes, right on the thermal envelope. I'm tempted to take it apart and re-apply the thermal grease since that's likely the issue but I don't really want to go there until I see it go over 100C.

If you want to see how hot your CPU will get I suggest either doing a Handbrake H.264 encode or converting something to H.264 in Visual Hub as these activities will max out both cores.

[jjahshik32]

ive yet to hear a gpu failure on the 17" mbp and im guessing its due to the bigger and more efficient heat sink in them.

[andy721]

What else is new, Laptops will never be perfect.:mad:

[thogs_cave]

Having worked for $BIG_UNIX_COMPUTER_COMPANY in high-end engineering, I can say that often these problems aren't even the fault of the vendor. We had several recalls that were due to chip manufacturers making mistakes, or hard drive manufacturers, etc. We had one chip from a vendor that decided to delaminate internally causing a massive failure on a number of machines - guess who took it on the chin, though?

I'm not trying to exonerate NV, but I do feel for 'em. As a company, they do good work. I used to be bigoted towards ATI, but the NV graphics in both my Mac Pro and MacBook Pro are very good.

[gr8bob]

I'm not trying to exonerate NV, but I do feel for 'em. As a company, they do good work. I used to be bigoted towards ATI, but the NV graphics in both my Mac Pro and MacBook Pro are very good.
They could've have done better by providing more specific details or at least, confirming that they'll be releasing a list of affected chips soon rather than releasing statements that keep people hanging on the fence. :rolleyes:

I'm on my 2nd logic board (8600M GT) now and it's still crashing and spewing artifacts onto the screen randomly. I did try other suggested options including a clean reinstall and yet it's still the same.

On a side note, I've been having good experiences with ATI displays.. until the Mobility Radeon 9700 Pro in my 3yr old Wintel laptop died a few days ago.. (probably due to my own stupidity of replacing the thermal pad with thick layer of AS5).. :D

[jjahshik32]

So the only real fix is for apple to include an update for the fan to come on early?

[noodle654]

So the only real fix is for apple to include an update for the fan to come on early?

Yeah or recall all the MBP and get new chips for the MBP.

[VanNess]

It most likely has relevance to this problem

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1419469&tstart=0

Which I think Apple still hasn't addressed

The same issue is happening with the new Nvidia-equipped Aluminum iMacs. The pics the op posted in the Apple forums thread are identical to what happens when you scroll web pages (by dragging the scroll bar) in Safari with an iMac equipped with the 8800 card. (Amongst other interface glitches - such as opening dashboard with the dashboard icon in the dock.) The ATI-based iMacs do not have these problems

It hasn't been resolved to date, in fact, I don't think Apple has made an attempt to address it to date. I don't know if it's a symptom of the unidentified, defective chips Nvidia announced, but here's hoping it's a driver issue and not a crapware issue.

[noodle654]

I did a little experimentation.

Top pic: My MBP being on for 30 minutes, idle with nothing open

2nd Pic: My MBP with Safari and Mail opened

3rd Pic: Same as above but in Celsius

4th Pic: Exporting a movie in iMovie that is 1 minute long. Taken 30 seconds after fans kick in

After this, I let the computer sit for 1 hour to cool down (shut down). I then booted into Bootcamp.

With Internet Ex. opened with music: CPU 1- 125*F (52C)
CPU 2- 126*F (53C)
GPU- 132*F (56C)

After playing Brothers in Arms: Earned In Blood (fans still under 4000RPM)

CPU 1- 180*F (82C)
CPU 2- 180*F (82C)
GPU- 185*F (85C)

Now, this was the hottest point and I was playing a very detailed level, fans kicked in a few seconds later.

[minik]

Doesn't iMac use notebook GPU as well?

[noodle654]

Doesn't iMac use notebook GPU as well?

Yes it does...this is going to be a huge issue.

[jjahshik32]

Wow this is like a surprised kick to the crotch just out of nowhere~!

Anyways, now I'm very serious about ebaying my 17" mbp just for the future's sake.

[kabunaru]

Doesn't iMac use notebook GPU as well?

The ones with the ATI cards won't probably be affected. It's an Nvidia problem.

[wheelhot]

Well, let's see. I just bought some games that range from 1-3 years old or so. A Macbook should be capable of playing 3 year old PC game under Boot Camp right? I've got Half Life 2, Test Drive Unlimited, Tiger Woods Golf 2006, Knights of the Old Republic 2, GTR2, Need For Speed Carbon and Pro Street, Madden 2007, NeverWinter Nights 1 & 2. Should I name more? None of these are cutting edge. Will they run on a Macbook with Boot Camp? Is it going to be good enough for me if I want to play some of my games on it? I already know the answer, but my point is the Macbook isn't really 'good enough' for ANYONE that has ANY interest in 3D gaming what-so-ever. It's awful in that regard and there's no reason for it to be THAT bad. They could include an older, lower power card, but they don't/won't as it MIGHT cannibalize their MBP sales. That's the excuse they use for everything. Why sell you something for $1000 when we can sell you something for $2000? Um, maybe because the $1000 PC laptops can play several of those games and the Macbook cannot? Apple needs to stop using 3D graphics as a hedge to force you to buy hardware you otherwise don't need, IMO.

Hmm, if you play game so much, why own a Mac? Own a Windows Notebook or PC if you want to play that many games, its much cheaper.

Honestly, I don't see the difference between Apple using Nvidia or ATi cards, both companies had issues with their GPU before so I dont see what is the big deal because these companies are ready to fix it and not keep quiet like it never happen.

[snahrl]

Wow this is ridiculous.

I just put my order in on a 17" MBP yesterday. I don't do a lot of gaming or video editing, but still....this worries me.

And I don't have very many other options either. I want a MBP and I cannot wait any longer.

This is terrible news. I guess I'll make sure to get AppleCare before my warranty is up...ugh.....

ive yet to hear a gpu failure on the 17" mbp and im guessing its due to the bigger and more efficient heat sink in them.

Please tell me this is true.

[andy721]

I did a little experimentation.

Top pic: My MBP being on for 30 minutes, idle with nothing open

2nd Pic: My MBP with Safari and Mail opened

3rd Pic: Same as above but in Celsius

4th Pic: Exporting a movie in iMovie that is 1 minute long. Taken 30 seconds after fans kick in

After this, I let the computer sit for 1 hour to cool down (shut down). I then booted into Bootcamp.

With Internet Ex. opened with music: CPU 1- 125*F (52C)
CPU 2- 126*F (53C)
GPU- 132*F (56C)

After playing Brothers in Arms: Earned In Blood (fans still under 4000RPM)

CPU 1- 180*F (82C)
CPU 2- 180*F (82C)
GPU- 185*F (85C)

Now, this was the hottest point and I was playing a very detailed level, fans kicked in a few seconds later.

This will make your fans a lot cooler, been using it for a week now, no problems.
http://homepage.mac.com/holtmann/eidac/software/smcfancontrol2/index.html

[notatrumpetpro]

Honestly, I can see nothing coming from this. Apple more than likely wont fix or exchange any machine unless there is an issue with the machine. Not that I wouldn't love a system exchange...

[milaround]

Eww, don't even joke about stuff like that.

Bring back the ATI cards! ATI always treated the Mac better anyway, and tends to have faster laptop chips. Jobs needs to get over it; the iMac G4 leak was so long ago!

Edit: Wait, that was Time Canada. The ATI leak was even longer ago! Canadians are your friends!

ATI cards for the next MacBook Pros, no more of this Nvidia crap. :rolleyes:;)

Are you people nuts, or just misinformed? Nvidia is one of the best things to happen to the macs. ATI can't even shake a stick at the benchmarks nvidia is putting out recently. Overall performance has increased since dumping the ATI cards. So it seems with this issue, the engineers found that the chips were running hotter than the design specifications of the form factors they're being placed in. ohnoes! They're just going to release an "update" to jack down the speeds so they'll produce less heat. Big deal.

It's not about brand loyalty, it's about cost-benefit. Going back to ATI would not improve anything, and would most likely be detrimental.

[Paul Turpin]

My GPU has failed -
My MB pro is off to the shop after the weekend.

It was very warm when it happened the first time.
Now it happens after being on for 10-15 minutes.
The graphics get all funky then the whole thing crashes.
(data is all fine / hard drive is fine)

It's off to the shop on monday. Applecare better come through with a new logic board. The question will be - will the new logic board still have the flawed chips in it????

:mad:

[jjahshik32]

My GPU has failed -
My MB pro is off to the shop after the weekend.

It was very warm when it happened the first time.
Now it happens after being on for 10-15 minutes.
The graphics get all funky then the whole thing crashes.
(data is all fine / hard drive is fine)

It's off to the shop on monday. Applecare better come through with a new logic board. The question will be - will the new logic board still have the flawed chips in it????

:mad:

Is your mbp a merom 07 model or a penryn 08 model? Also is it a 15" or a 17"??

[cal6n]

Does anyone still strip their MacBook Pros to re-apply the thermal compound between the motherboard and the heat-pipe?

Does Apple still lay massive quantities of their thermal-paste on with a trowel?

[cluthz]

Does anyone know if the 8600 in the MBP dynamically scales according to temperature (on some games I get a slowdown after playing for a while that remains until I quit and reload some time later - could be many other variables, but this has got me thinking)?
I don't think so. I'm playing AoC (in win xp) and WoW (on macosx ofc) om my MBP and it never seems to get slowdowns even after 3-4 hrs long sessions.

[Tex-Twil]

Hello,
is there a list of the affected GPUs somewhere ?


Thanks
tex

[jjahshik32]

Hello,
is there a list of the affected GPUs somewhere ?


Thanks
tex

I'm sure everyone would like to know this as well.

[tocyk]

Does this affect EVERYBODY? Like even people who bought the most recent MBP?

[snahrl]

Are the 17" MBPs truly not affected due to the better heat sink?

[Paul Turpin]

Is your mbp a merom 07 model or a penryn 08 model? Also is it a 15" or a 17"??

15" 2.2 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo purchased in approx June 2007 - first model with LED backlight

[jjahshik32]

15" 2.2 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo purchased in approx June 2007 - first model with LED backlight

I've noticed that most issues that arises or that I hear about so far is the 2.2 Ghz mbp with the 128mb vram.. I wonder why so many problems with that specific model?

I noticed that on ebay there are alot of people trying to flip the 2.2ghz even at a low $1250!

I almost snagged one yesterday and and then I saw the nvidia problems and majority of the problems are so far from the 2.2ghz model.

[7031]

****. I think my Macbook Pro might be affected.

When playing Half Life 2, my Macbook can go as high as 80 to even 90 degrees C. Too hot to keep on my lap. It actually resulted me in building a new PC just for gaming on.

Also, when playing games I do get graphical glitches. I always assumed it was just buggy drivers though...

[jjahshik32]

Are the 17" MBPs truly not affected due to the better heat sink?

I remember reading on Barefeats.com where they say the 17" mbp has a much bigger and more efficient heat sink which allows the gpu to clock up much higher than the 15" mbp.

Anyways, I was just using common sense and put that theory together =/ but still doesnt mean its true or that the 17" mbp is immune to the defect.

But what I've read about the last years 17" 2.4ghz hi res model (non led model), I've yet to hear anyone complain about the gpu dying on them or any glitches with the gpu as well and especially the 17" 2.5, 2.6ghz mbp from early this year so far as well (knock on wood).

But I really like to know which specific nvidia gpu cards are affected..

I did read on many other forums that mostly 8400m cards have a pretty high failure rate and started a big thread in many places even before we were aware of the nvidia gpu overheating issue.. I forgot which laptop brand it was but had the 8400m card with heating issues.

But if you read carefully the article saids that not only its the gpu but its the certain notebook models with the gpu that affects the heat dissipation.

[snahrl]

I remember reading on Barefeats.com where they say the 17" mbp has a much bigger and more efficient heat sink which allows the gpu to clock up much higher than the 15" mbp.

Anyways, I was just using common sense and put that theory together =/ but still doesnt mean its true or that the 17" mbp is immune to the defect.

But what I've read about the last years 17" 2.4ghz hi res model (non led model), I've yet to hear anyone complain about the gpu dying on them or any glitches with the gpu as well and especially the 17" 2.5, 2.6ghz mbp from early this year so far as well (knock on wood).

But I really like to know which specific nvidia gpu cards are affected..

I did read on many other forums that mostly 8400m cards have a pretty high failure rate and started a big thread in many places even before we were aware of the nvidia gpu overheating issue.. I forgot which laptop brand it was but had the 8400m card with heating issues.

But if you read carefully the article saids that not only its the gpu but its the certain notebook models with the gpu that affects the heat dissipation.

I wonder if the 8600s are affected. That's what I'll be getting in mine.

It would make sense that, if the 17" has a better heatsink, then that may mean there won't be much of an issue.

[jjahshik32]

I've just decided to keep my 17" mbp, I havnt had any problems with it and when my apple care arrives next week I'm going to enroll it asap!

One thing that bothers me now is.. should I run an long intensive gpu session for it to fail then send it to apple in which apple will replace the logic board with the new non defective gpu that nvidia apparently reimbursed apple with?

Here's a bit of a "almost" and "not yet confirmed" relief..

http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=2172

"I know, I know, you want me to take a stab at what GPUs are affected. Here’s what I think (remember, this is totally unconfirmed and is just a hunch based on what I’ve been hearing) …

In recent weeks I’ve been hearing about a lot of problems related to the Dell m1330 and m1530, which are powered by the GeForce 8400M GS. For a while now this issue has been put down to overheating of the GPU. I’ve heard from several people who have been hit by this problem, with some having to have multiple motherboard replacements.

There’s details of a modification called the Copper Mod posted on several forums. Finally, what makes the 8400M GS a prime suspect is that the other day an update for this GPU was released by Dell."


and another place

http://seekingalpha.com/article/83754-nvidia-tanks-on-defective-chip-weak-outlook

In a nutshell, this driver may be available, but good luck finding it on Nvidia’s site–it appears to be an OEM first strategy).
Adrian Kingsley-Hughes has more on the issue. He notes that there have been problems recently with Dell’s (DELL) m1330 and m1530 related to overheating. These machines are powered by the GeForce 8400M GS. It’s not confirmed, but it’s a trail to follow. Also see this driver download and this one from Dell on July 1."

I'm crossing my fingers and praying to GOD that its the 8400m GS that's defective.

[Eric.]

OK, So I just loaded Motion with 25 HD resolution particle emitters and ran it for 10 mins...

These are the results ;

Graphics processor Temp Diode : 78C
Graphics Processor Heatsink : 70C
CPU A Temperature Diode : 78C
Main Heatsink 1 : 63C
Main Heatsink 2 : 44C
Main Heatsink 3: 51C
Enclosure Bottomside :33C

The aluminium bar behind the keyboard is VERY HOT as is the centre underside behind the battery.

Is this something I should be contacting Apple about or is it to be expected ?

P.S : Update : After stopping motion it's back down to 54C in about 2 mins...


I wouldn't worry at all about the graphics temperatures here. The CPU is a little high, but within the normal range of what I've typically seen of reports here.

[snahrl]

I've just decided to keep my 17" mbp, I havnt had any problems with it and when my apple care arrives next week I'm going to enroll it asap!

One thing that bothers me now is.. should I run an long intensive gpu session for it to fail then send it to apple in which apple will replace the logic board with the new non defective gpu that nvidia apparently reimbursed apple with?

Here's a bit of a "almost" and "not yet confirmed" relief..

http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=2172

"I know, I know, you want me to take a stab at what GPUs are affected. Here’s what I think (remember, this is totally unconfirmed and is just a hunch based on what I’ve been hearing) …

In recent weeks I’ve been hearing about a lot of problems related to the Dell m1330 and m1530, which are powered by the GeForce 8400M GS. For a while now this issue has been put down to overheating of the GPU. I’ve heard from several people who have been hit by this problem, with some having to have multiple motherboard replacements.

There’s details of a modification called the Copper Mod posted on several forums. Finally, what makes the 8400M GS a prime suspect is that the other day an update for this GPU was released by Dell."


and another place

http://seekingalpha.com/article/83754-nvidia-tanks-on-defective-chip-weak-outlook

In a nutshell, this driver may be available, but good luck finding it on Nvidia’s site–it appears to be an OEM first strategy).
Adrian Kingsley-Hughes has more on the issue. He notes that there have been problems recently with Dell’s (DELL) m1330 and m1530 related to overheating. These machines are powered by the GeForce 8400M GS. It’s not confirmed, but it’s a trail to follow. Also see this driver download and this one from Dell on July 1."

I'm crossing my fingers and praying to GOD that its the 8400m GS that's defective.

Dell also sells laptops with the 8600M along with the 8400M (you have to customize it).

Did they release new drivers for the 8600M as well?

[mynameisshawn]

Oh man this is a nightmare situation, though it may seem like the 17" are less prone to the problem, it still has me worried that my week old 17" MBP's GPU could go down the crapper.
I was going to export an hour long video which would've taken hours to export, but I might just export it in chunks.

I joined this forum to gain some knowledge, instead I find out all the potential flaws my brand new MBP has, live and learn I guess :p

[SchneiderMan]

Oh man this is a nightmare situation, though it may seem like the 17" are less prone to the problem, it still has me worried that my week old 17" MBP's GPU could go down the crapper.
I was going to export an hour long video which would've taken hours to export, but I might just export it in chunks.

I joined this forum to gain some knowledge, instead I find out all the potential flaws my brand new MBP has, live and learn I guess :p

same here

[jjahshik32]

Dell also sells laptops with the 8600M along with the 8400M (you have to customize it).

Did they release new drivers for the 8600M as well?

Not sure about Dell getting the 8600m GT drivers.. but all I hear and read about is the 8400m GS and a thread that even started 7 months ago still continuing today with people who got their motherboards replaced more than 4 times.

[mynameisshawn]

I was also thinking of putting Vista on my MBP, mostly for games and MSPaint. I guess I'll put that on hold as well.

Hopefully some patch could fix this problem, but I'm not holding my breath.

[jjahshik32]

I feel like were gathered at a shelter waiting for a huge hurricane to coming our way.

[snahrl]

dp

[snahrl]

http://support.dell.com/support/downloads/download.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&releaseid=R190091&SystemID=XPS_M1330&servicetag=&os=WLH&osl=en&deviceid=13678&devlib=0&typecnt=0&vercnt=4&catid=-1&impid=-1&formatcnt=1&libid=6&fileid=261031

Affected systems:

Video: nVidia GeForce 8400M, GeForce 8400M GS, GeForce 8600M, Driver, Windows Vista 32-bit, Multi Language, Multi System, v.175.97 V32, A08

But, perhaps the driver is just the same for all systems even though certain GPUs may not be impacted??

I have no clue...

[jjahshik32]

Hmm..

A little investigation for the recent driver update on Dell's site reveals this:

http://support.dell.com/support/downloads/download.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&releaseid=R190091&SystemID=XPS_M1330&servicetag=&os=WLH&osl=en&deviceid=13678&devlib=0&typecnt=0&vercnt=4&catid=-1&impid=-1&formatcnt=1&libid=6&fileid=261031

Affected systems:

Video: nVidia GeForce 8400M, GeForce 8400M GS, GeForce 8600M, Driver, Windows Vista 32-bit, Multi Language, Multi System, v.175.97 V32, A08

HOWEVER...

If you do a search for the 8600M, the last known driver update was back in March...while the 8400 line was done just recently..

Perhaps the 8600M isn't affected?

Interesting.. Maybe the 8600M was included just because its a newer driver all together and will benefit from the update anyways??

When I read about some 8600M GT owners complaining about their gpu has overheated and died, its usually the 2.2ghz mbp with the 128mb vram (I think I read from 1 or 2 people with the 2.4ghz that the gpu has frozen with weird colors but not all together stopped working. (I guess still overheating issue).

Also I heard about 50 people having that mbp is picking up x1300 and the screen is not working due to the nvidia dying.. but then that's a major isolated issue..

I dont know how to look into this.. seems like almost all 8400m GS owners have had more than 1 motherboard swap that I read about and the occasional 8600M GT 128mb vram posters pop up (but to me it sounds like more of an isolated issue than a real big one unlike the 8400M GS).

Also if the 8600M GT was included in the defective gpu lot.. wouldnt Apple released a gpu or smc update by now.. or yesterday?

[ridehard]

While gaming my penryn MBP, the gpu runs always 20º highter than the cpu.
So last time i saw, GPU @ 82º
CPU @ 64º

How are ur temps going ?

[Wotan31]

8600M is affected, I'm sure of it. I bought an HP laptop (dv9500t) last fall that came with an 8600M GS. After a few months of use, the screen output started to become corrupted when the machine was powered on for more than 10 minutes at a time. HP replaced the system board under warranty.

I have a buddy who bought an HP dv6500t laptop (also equipped with 8600M GS) who experienced the exact same problem a few months later.

Note that I was running Linux on mine, and even when the screen became corrupted, I could still SSH into it and everything appeared to be working perfectly (I even re-compiled the kernel in my SSH session, just for grins and that worked without error) which leads me to believe the problem was limited to the graphics chipset.

[dtklamf]

Thank god for intel integrated graphics.
;)

no such thing buddy

[weemanpow3]

While gaming my penryn MBP, the gpu runs always 20º highter than the cpu.
So last time i saw, GPU @ 82º
CPU @ 64º

How are ur temps going ?


Same thems as you

[rlm22b]

I feel like were gathered at a shelter waiting for a huge hurricane to coming our way.

lol exactly.

[SolRayz]

This is probably why our MBP's are so HOT! If you can still buy AppleCare, you better buy it now just in case!


What if its too late to buy AppleCare? Will Apple screw its customers if the 8600's prove to be defective? Doubtful.

[maccompaq]

After reading about the overheating issues with MacBooks and Macbook Pros, I wonder why many people still recommend using a MBP as a desktop replacement.

[noodle654]

This will make your fans a lot cooler, been using it for a week now, no problems.
http://homepage.mac.com/holtmann/eidac/software/smcfancontrol2/index.html

Thanks for the suggestion, but I am already using it. I shouldnt have to control fan speeds, the computer should know whats hot. I cant believe that the fans dont come on until its about 170*F.

[guzhogi]

ive yet to hear a gpu failure on the 17" mbp and im guessing its due to the bigger and more efficient heat sink in them.

I have a 17" MBP & my GPU failed... twice. It's the first MBP a/ a C2D, so I don't know if it's the same problem or what.

[Bubba Satori]

I own stock in NVDA. I am getting absolutely slaughtered on this stuff. I strongly believe in NVDA and I wish I had saved my money -- I think the stock is very attractive at this price.

:rolleyes:

[nikhsub1]

What if its too late to buy AppleCare? Will Apple screw its customers if the 8600's prove to be defective? Doubtful.
I'll let you know in a few hours... my MBP I bought 6/17/07 so I'm about 2 weeks out of warranty and my GPU is dead... will work with vnc and target mode but display is black... going to TWO apple stores today if I don't like the answer I get from the first one... In system profiler my 8600 shows up as the Integrated Intel X3100 graphics chip... I guess this is what the system defaults to if the nvidia chip dies?

I consider myself lucky as I purchased the MBP on AMEX and they extend the warranty for an additional year, so I am covered. I recommend ALL to make sure you are covered and/or get apple care if you still can. I don't expect apple to man up and cover this under warranty although I believe they should.

[m1stake]

Just because Nvidia announced that a bunch of their products are defective doesn't mean that all of a sudden yours will be.

Also, not using programs that you think will "hurt" the GPU? It's a machine. Machines break. Get it fixed under the warranty like everyone else, you have nothing to worry about. Why have a computer if you're scared to run some programs on it?

[nikhsub1]

Well, I am pleasantly surprised! The guy at the Apple store did the usual "I need to check it all out and I can't take your word for it" routine, I said I get it do your thing. He said, "wow, your machine looks to be in excellent condition!" I have used the Speck case since the day I got it, not a scratch on it... Anyway, he said that since I was within 30 days of warranty expiration that he would cover it under warranty :D I am very happy about that! I did learn something however, logic board replacements OUT OF WARRANTY are only $310 + tax! That is a BARGAIN! I guess this is a new policy? Who needs Apple care when it is that cheap? Anyhow, Apple FINALLY did something right by me.

[izibo]

I wouldn't let this scare you in to buying AppleCare. If the chips are indeed defective (and, those specific lines were put in to Apple notebooks) there would be a part specific recall or extension of the warranty due to fried video cards. There is no way Apple would be able to make a customer pair to replace a defective part. Just remember how there was a logic board replacement program for prior iBooks / PowerBooks.

[jjahshik32]

8600M is affected, I'm sure of it. I bought an HP laptop (dv9500t) last fall that came with an 8600M GS. After a few months of use, the screen output started to become corrupted when the machine was powered on for more than 10 minutes at a time. HP replaced the system board under warranty.

I have a buddy who bought an HP dv6500t laptop (also equipped with 8600M GS) who experienced the exact same problem a few months later.

Note that I was running Linux on mine, and even when the screen became corrupted, I could still SSH into it and everything appeared to be working perfectly (I even re-compiled the kernel in my SSH session, just for grins and that worked without error) which leads me to believe the problem was limited to the graphics chipset.

wait.. so there's an 8600M GS?!?

[BenRoethig]

wait.. so there's an 8600M GS?!?

Yes. It has 16 stream processors opposed to 32 in the GT.

[MagnusVonMagnum]

Hmm, if you play game so much, why own a Mac? Own a Windows Notebook or PC if you want to play that many games, its much cheaper.

If you can't imagine why I'd want to buy a Mac, well, I could ask you why you bought yours just as easily, I suppose. I sure as heck didn't buy this particular Mac I'm on right now (an upgraded 1.8GHz 7448 G4 Digital Audio) for gaming. I use it for safe things like shopping, banking, etc. that I don't trust Windows with given its spyware/viral history and to run my whole house audio system which uses two AppleTV units and an Airport Express along with Signal and Remote Buddy to control it all via an iPod Touch (iTunes on XP can also play across that system).

As for gaming, I don't play 'so much'. I play one game at a time in my spare time. I just finished Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn and I'm not starting on Throne of Baal. I play Test Drive Unlimited here and there in-between and even old arcade games through an emulator. I DO play them on a PC (I have my Mac on an L-shaped executive desk and have the PC directly to my right; a simple rotate of the chair and I can access either WindowsXP or Mandriva Linux 2008.1, depending on which it is running, if on at all (it's off right now)). The point here was about buying a laptop. I have thought about buying a PC one since I could get one much cheaper, but the thing is I want to run Logic Pro on the laptop, which is a Mac only music studio type program, so I can keep my digital piano in the living room and not junk the room up with computer hardware. So that means I need a Mac laptop. If I want to run any 3D games at all on it (say while I'm on a trip), I'm forced to get the MBP. I think I'll wait until the next update, though given the problems described here. Plus the next round of GPU chipsets are supposed to be like 40% faster.

[cthomet]

well i was going to get a mbp for college just to get the most power possible with my available funds, but this might scare me back to the macbook. unless apple does something in the next month.

[m1stake]

My store hasn't had black macbooks for 5 weeks. They're coming.

I know, insider information right?!

[snahrl]

So what happens if there is a recall or replacement for this line of GPUs?

If it breaks, do they just replace it with yet ANOTHER defective board?

ughh..

[Loge]

I have a 17" MBP & my GPU failed... twice. It's the first MBP a/ a C2D, so I don't know if it's the same problem or what.

The first MBPs with the C2Ds were ATI cards, weren't they?

[jjahshik32]

The first MBPs with the C2Ds were ATI cards, weren't they?

That's exactly what I was thinking. It has to be the ATI card version because even the 2.33ghz 17" mbp has the ATI x1600.

So its more of something just went wrong with the ATI card.

Anyway, I wish there were more information but IMHO, I think the defective cards that Nvidia is really talking about is the 8400M GS as there alot of people complaining about its high rate of failure with people who has already replaced the motherboard 4-5 times.

[noodle654]

Well, I am pleasantly surprised! The guy at the Apple store did the usual "I need to check it all out and I can't take your word for it" routine, I said I get it do your thing. He said, "wow, your machine looks to be in excellent condition!" I have used the Speck case since the day I got it, not a scratch on it... Anyway, he said that since I was within 30 days of warranty expiration that he would cover it under warranty :D I am very happy about that! I did learn something however, logic board replacements OUT OF WARRANTY are only $310 + tax! That is a BARGAIN! I guess this is a new policy? Who needs Apple care when it is that cheap? Anyhow, Apple FINALLY did something right by me.

$310 is pretty cheat. But, why would you want to spend $310 on a 1 time repair...when you can spend $200 on AppleCare and have unlimited repairs for 2 years??

[jjahshik32]

$310 is pretty cheat. But, why would you want to spend $310 on a 1 time repair...when you can spend $200 on AppleCare and have unlimited repairs for 2 years??

Yea true, also if you take your laptop within the 3 years of apple care for 3 repairs then the 4th time, you have the right for apple to replace your mbp with the newest up to date model equivalent to your machine.

[nikhsub1]

$310 is pretty cheat. But, why would you want to spend $310 on a 1 time repair...when you can spend $200 on AppleCare and have unlimited repairs for 2 years??
Umm, IIRC apple care is $369... my CC will cover for an additional year for free so without apple care I've got 1 year of no coverage... it's too late now to buy apple care for me.

[jjahshik32]

Umm, IIRC apple care is $369... my CC will cover for an additional year for free so without apple care I've got 1 year of no coverage... it's too late now to buy apple care for me.

Not when you buy from ebay, I just bought apple care for my mbp for $209 + 7.95 shipping and will receive it in the mail next wednesday.

But if you really look on ebay for a while for AC you can find one for $170.

[SolRayz]

I'll let you know in a few hours... my MBP I bought 6/17/07 so I'm about 2 weeks out of warranty and my GPU is dead... will work with vnc and target mode but display is black... going to TWO apple stores today if I don't like the answer I get from the first one... In system profiler my 8600 shows up as the Integrated Intel X3100 graphics chip... I guess this is what the system defaults to if the nvidia chip dies?

I consider myself lucky as I purchased the MBP on AMEX and they extend the warranty for an additional year, so I am covered. I recommend ALL to make sure you are covered and/or get apple care if you still can. I don't expect apple to man up and cover this under warranty although I believe they should.

Oddly the same thing happened to me and through some searching on the interweb discovered what seems to have worked...for now anyway

Here is the solution I found myself which cost me 3 days and the purchase of an extended warranty I didn't need.

1) connect the nonworking computer to another mac with a firewire cable
2) turn the nonworking computer and hold down T - will let you access it as if it is an external hard drive
3) access the /private/var/vm/ directory on the nonworking computer from the working computer. This is invisble so you will have to press cmd+shift+g in the finder and go to /volumes/YOURHARDDISKNAME/private/var/vm to get there or use an application that lets you view invisble folders like PathFinder.
4) delete the sleepimage file
5) delete the /system/library/extensions.mkext file
6) eject the drive (drag to the trash)
7) press the power button to turn off the non working computer
8) turn the nonworking computer back on normally(cross your fingers) then if it works,
9) open up the the terminal.app in /applications/utilities
10) type sudo pmset -a hibernatemode 0
11) make sure there is no sleepimage file again

also there are like 5 similar threads with the same issue.
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1337981&tstart=0


Pulled from
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1478474&tstart=0

[jjahshik32]

Yes. It has 16 stream processors opposed to 32 in the GT.

That's why yours went bad because the mbp uses a 8600M GT not a 8600M GS. And so far the 8400 GS has the wide spread overheating issues.

[Fenir]

Need to upgrade my first gen broken Macbook. I am looking at the MBP, but this is scaring me! Hopefully all is good in another month or so

[nikhsub1]

Oddly the same thing happened to me and through some searching on the interweb discovered what seems to have worked...for now anyway



Pulled from
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1478474&tstart=0
Tried that 100 times... it worked once. Mine is NOT a sleep issue. In system profiler it sees the GPU as an X3100 integrated GPU, that is your clue that your GPU is fried.

[jjahshik32]

I wonder when Nvidia states that its the "older generation" gpu's that the 8600m GT cards from the 07' is the culprit.

[noodle654]

I wonder when Nvidia states that its the "older generation" gpu's that the 8600m GT cards from the 07' is the culprit.

Thats what it means. The 8400 and the 8600.

[jjahshik32]

Thats what it means. The 8400 and the 8600.

I'm just curious if they mean the 8600M GT cards that were inside any brand laptops manufactured in 2007 not 2008.

But this doesnt make sense because even since Jan to now the dell 1330 and the 1530 has been getting new motherboards with the 8400M GS card which are still failing at a high rate.

Another common sense, Nvidia doesnt want to give out the name of their specific gpu that has problems so they just release a new driver which just came out a few days ago now and just added all the 8 series name to it, which is really meant for the 8400M GS.

[shompa]

My friend, who bought a Nvidia 8600 Macbook pro the same day it was released: His Nvidia card failed 360 days after purchase. Here in Sweden, we have warranty for 365 days. Almost like Apple timed the computer to crash :).

Now we know why. It is a Nvidia problem.
It is quite a expensive repair, since they have to replace the whole logic board on the macbook pro. To be safe: Get Applecare. I don't trust Apples extended warranty.
Had a alu powerbook with Withe spots. Apple did not replace the LCD.

[Mardaneus]

When I saw this thread I instantly thought of something that happened to my Macbook Pro a few times. When getting it back out of sleep the screen just gets all color, and is totally unreadable. A reboot fixes it every time until now, except for once. That time I had to to a repair of OS X (it killed some of my user files so I couldn't boot it up anymore).

To give you an impression of how it looked:
http://www.dynamicdesign.be/MacbookProWow.jpg

Could this be caused by the defective nVidia GPUs?

[jjahshik32]

When I saw this thread I instantly thought of something that happened to my Macbook Pro a few times. When getting it back out of sleep the screen just gets all color, and is totally unreadable. A reboot fixes it every time until now, except for once. That time I had to to a repair of OS X (it killed some of my user files so I couldn't boot it up anymore).

To give you an impression of how it looked:
http://www.dynamicdesign.be/MacbookProWow.jpg

Could this be caused by the defective nVidia GPUs?

One thing to question is that when the mbp is asleep and if I remember correctly the mbp gets very very cool or cold.

My question is why would a graphics card have issues after a sleep when the gpu is not even being used and couldnt have overheated?

I would think this is a different issue on its own, maybe just a defective card not related to heat issues? Or just a hardware/software type of clash?

[gr8bob]

When I saw this thread I instantly thought of something that happened to my Macbook Pro a few times. When getting it back out of sleep the screen just gets all color, and is totally unreadable. A reboot fixes it every time until now, except for once. That time I had to to a repair of OS X (it killed some of my user files so I couldn't boot it up anymore).

To give you an impression of how it looked:
http://www.dynamicdesign.be/MacbookProWow.jpg

Could this be caused by the defective nVidia GPUs?
Looks pretty similar to mine, except that it happens on mine when i open up the iTunes visualizer and screen saver preferences panel, and some windows will just corrupt whenever I move/resize them..

[slexus]

had some very similar experiences back in 10.5.1-2 days. haven't had them at all lately (10.5.2-3). not able to detect any patterns so far.

http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=6705448#6705448

[alphaod]

I don't really know what do say, except I wouldn't worry too much about this; I think the issue here is a lot of people are expecting their computers to be defective which is a really pessimistic way of thinking; how about thinking you computer has no issues? Why keep finding ways your computer can mess up? Does this give you gratification?

Think on the bright side; it might just have affected many of their older lines like the 7-series, 6-series, 5-series, and since the 8-series is quite current, it wouldn't be a "older" product yet.

[noodle654]

7-series, 6-series, 5-series, and since the 8-series is quite current, it wouldn't be a "older" product yet.

I think you are wrong on that. The 6-series and 7 series are both a over 2 years old. The 8 series is over a year old. The 8400 and the 8600 are both pretty old now. They are have to be the ones affected by it. The 8800 is also getting somewhat old now. I think you will see that the 8400 and 8600 are the ones with the problems.

[sgr91]

First, I have to say that I am not at all technically literate and following this thread alone has been a challenge - but I would really appreciate some advice. I was planning on buyuing a 17" MBP this weekend and then I got on this website, looking to see if there are any soon to be released updates to the machine, and came across this issue. Having read as much as I can on this topic, I still can't figure out if this is indeed a problem with the "older" units, or an ongoing problem that would affect the computer I would buy now. I am an amateur photographer and decided to change from my Dell XPS to a MBP which I'm planning on using to edit photos in Photoshop and use for Powerpoint presentations for work. I don't need to get the computer immediately, but my Dell is on its "last legs" and my extended warrantly has expired so I'm getting very nervous every time it freezes up.
So, if you were me, would you feel confident in buying a MBP this weekend or would you wait - and how long? Thanks.

[zender]

the problem is minimal, 150 ml to 200 ml is nothing, no more than 1 ml bad gpu, and considering all the laptops out there with nvidia gpus...
also, by now apple would have released these VIDEO drivers if any macs were affected but they didnt, and also....

looking how many little responses this thread got... compared to how many mac users use these forums.., looks like apple is not affected at all by this, or we would be at page 10000 by now

[Mardaneus]

...
So, if you were me, would you feel confident in buying a MBP this weekend or would you wait - and how long? Thanks.

Buy one right now :) Wonderful machine in both hard- and software. GPU issues as stated here shouldn't be in the new units. You get a one year warranty for sure so I wouldn't worry too much. The chance of getting a defective GPU is very small.

I wonder how many old(er) notebooks are affected in total by this issue.

[henhowc]

the problem is minimal, 150 ml to 200 ml is nothing, no more than 1 ml bad gpu, and considering all the laptops out there with nvidia gpus...
also, by now apple would have released these VIDEO drivers if any macs were affected but they didnt, and also....

looking how many little responses this thread got... compared to how many mac users use these forums.., looks like apple is not affected at all by this, or we would be at page 10000 by now

As usual...people start getting paranoid when these things happen. That being said, if the problem was "minimal" it would seem strange that Nvidia would put out this press release. Why do a big announcement that is going to result in a hit on your stock? Sounds like damage control is starting early. Just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it won't happen in the future. Keep in mind that the MBPs have only been using the 8600s for about a year now and debuted early last summer with the new SR MBPs.

Generally speaking, people running Mac OS X aren't going to be running into the same heat issues unless they are doing something GPU intensive like playing a game in Boot Camp. Back when I was really into PC gaming, any video card related issues related to overheating would only manifest themselves during gaming (i.e. artifacting, crashing to desktop, etc.)

To the person who said that the Nvidia GPU must be why the MBPs run so hot...the first MBPs used ATI GPUs. They had the same heat issues (i.e. not being able to use it on your lap when not wearing pants). :p

[TheReef]

Generally speaking, people running Mac OS X aren't going to be running into the same heat issues unless they are doing something GPU intensive like playing a game in Boot Camp. Back when I was really into PC gaming, any video card related issues related to overheating would only manifest themselves during gaming (i.e. artifacting, crashing to desktop, etc.)


Yeah, games aren't good :cool:

The annoying thing is though that if you want to play a game in Mac OS X, it's optimization is most likely worse than that of the equivalent Windows version. Therefore much more heat. A game is what killed my G4 PowerBook #arg# too. That said, Windows laptops probably get very hot too.

Generally I like to leave my computers on "reduced" performance all the time. My G5 on lowest is more than enough for my needs and stays pretty cool around 28-50°C. My now dead PowerBook would hurt to touch most of the time just doing iMovie…games would burn you.

[e12a]

When I saw this thread I instantly thought of something that happened to my Macbook Pro a few times. When getting it back out of sleep the screen just gets all color, and is totally unreadable. A reboot fixes it every time until now, except for once. That time I had to to a repair of OS X (it killed some of my user files so I couldn't boot it up anymore).

To give you an impression of how it looked:
http://www.dynamicdesign.be/MacbookProWow.jpg

Could this be caused by the defective nVidia GPUs?

that happened to me this morning...first time I saw it on this computer...weird. I do play quite a bit of games via Bootcamp (tf2, cod4, etc.). last night I was editing photos i took on the 4th of july and i did notice the computer running somewhat sluggishly (lightroom and photoshop open). I woke it up this morning and saw what you posted, the cursor seemed to freeze for a few seconds then start moving again.

nothing helped so i had to do a hard reset.

edit: i noticed you had photoshop opened too. Could it be related? I was doing some panoramic stitching with .tiff (lightroom's "edit in PS" format) in PS CS3.

[slexus]

First, I have to say that I am not at all technically literate and following this thread alone has been a challenge - but I would really appreciate some advice. I was planning on buyuing a 17" MBP this weekend and then I got on this website, looking to see if there are any soon to be released updates to the machine, and came across this issue. Having read as much as I can on this topic, I still can't figure out if this is indeed a problem with the "older" units, or an ongoing problem that would affect the computer I would buy now. I am an amateur photographer and decided to change from my Dell XPS to a MBP which I'm planning on using to edit photos in Photoshop and use for Powerpoint presentations for work. I don't need to get the computer immediately, but my Dell is on its "last legs" and my extended warrantly has expired so I'm getting very nervous every time it freezes up.
So, if you were me, would you feel confident in buying a MBP this weekend or would you wait - and how long? Thanks.

If you buy now, you take the risk of having turn your machine into warranty and waste time with all the issues that come with known broken hardware. The breakage is not totally serious, but a certain string of operations that you do with video, quickview, and other stuff (read apple discussions thread, which is much more thorough than this), WILL crash your machine. The complete set of such operations IS NOT known, I've had the thing blow up running a Java UML modelling app.

I can't do much, since I already bought it end of last year, but to try to turn it back in, which I'm seriously considering doing. My work environemnt has never been Mac specific and I can run my life the same way on Mac, Linux, or even Windows (thanks Mozilla and all the other cross platform technologies). Then I would wait until the post-Penryn machines come out - AFAIK there is NO current MBP revision or model out that doesn't suffer from this. Or is there? I would definitely wait for an official statement about a model revision that is confirmed to either get a new set of 8600 chips or get a completely another chip.

[88888888]

are my temperatures abnormal...?

i'm just watching a dvd and here are the temperatures

this is from istat pro

cpu A is 76 degrees
cpu diode is 80
heatsink -70
heatsink a 69
heatsink b 51
enclosure base 39
mem controller 52
airport card 55

fans running around 3000 rpm

[looking4anotebo]

My 11 month old MBP 2.2 seems to get to 80c doing some heavier tasks, like running handbrake, and it will stay in that range for a few minutes, then the fans kick on and get it down to 70c. I am not sure how much this will play into the life span of the computer, but I planned on keeping this MBP for as long as possible, and probably 4-5 years as my main computer.

This is my first notebook computer, and I never expected it to run this hot. The amount of heat that comes off the keyboard and the palm rests, much of the time, is a bit disturbing.

[MagnusVonMagnum]

$310 is pretty cheat. But, why would you want to spend $310 on a 1 time repair...when you can spend $200 on AppleCare and have unlimited repairs for 2 years??

Why would you want to spend ANY money period? A repair is unfortunate, but doesn't always happen. AppleCare is a guaranteed loss of money on an already way overpriced piece of hardware. You can get a cheap laptop these days for $300. Let's see...AppleCare or a 2nd laptop to keep in the car...hmmm.

[alphaod]

I think you are wrong on that. The 6-series and 7 series are both a over 2 years old. The 8 series is over a year old. The 8400 and the 8600 are both pretty old now. They are have to be the ones affected by it. The 8800 is also getting somewhat old now. I think you will see that the 8400 and 8600 are the ones with the problems.

I don't really care if I'm wrong; I'm trying to get people to be optimistic.

So much for that. :o

[noodle654]

Why would you want to spend ANY money period? A repair is unfortunate, but doesn't always happen. AppleCare is a guaranteed loss of money on an already way overpriced piece of hardware. You can get a cheap laptop these days for $300. Let's see...AppleCare or a 2nd laptop to keep in the car...hmmm.

I would rather spend money on AppleCare then be slammed with a huge repair build. If you get a LB replaced...you could pay over $375 with sales tax and shipping. Right there for 1 LB you could have bought Applecare for $200. It makes sense to protect your $2000+ investment. I think the best are the people here who buy a new Mac and after the 1 year warranty, something happens and they have to get it repaired and have to pay tons of cash. You could have just bought AppleCare and saved money!!

Who wants a piece of crap $300 Windows laptop that is probably will break in a month?

[jjahshik32]

I think you are wrong on that. The 6-series and 7 series are both a over 2 years old. The 8 series is over a year old. The 8400 and the 8600 are both pretty old now. They are have to be the ones affected by it. The 8800 is also getting somewhat old now. I think you will see that the 8400 and 8600 are the ones with the problems.

From reading and searching constantly it seems mostly the dell 1330 and the 1530 with the 8400m gs are almost gauranteed to fail. But for the 8600 gt card it seems the 2.2 ghz model (im guessing referring to the older model of the mbp) with the 128mb vram 8600m gt has the issues.

[kingcrowing]

One of my friends just got a Penryn from Apple and she's having no issues. I work for my University's tech department and I've never seen this issue and we sell hundreds of MBPs every year, that doesn't mean it hasn't happened but not EVERY machine is having a problem like some people are saying. It seems that quite a few people are having the issue but not everyone. I think the current gen MBPs seem great, I'm ordering one next week, but people will find something wrong with every generation. If you don't believe me look at the past threads, I've been here for close to 5 years and nobody has ever said this is the 'perfect' revision/generation, someone will always have an issue, but look at the non-problem related threads and you'll find hundreds of happy people here with MBPs, MBs, etc so if you're looking to buy one now, don't let this deter you or you'll always be waiting to buy a new computer... Just do it!

[zender]

from my experience the latest macbook pro has been just amazing, i use it a lot and i also game on it as well, all good

also, my opinion and advice to people thinking about getting a new mac, and i have learned this from personal experience...

its always best to buy the last revision of a mac before they introduce a new version with a new chip, i would never buy a new mac revision a......

always wait for the introduction of a new chip, and buy the last revision before it
always worked for me

[jjahshik32]

So far no issues on my 17" mbp runs very cool and no problems at all.

After seeing the 8500M GS the blame I feel more at peace though.

[ilifecomputer]

Zender, I practice the same technique with all my apple purchases. It has never failed me. =)

[Gymnut]

My Santa Rosa MBP's graphic card died a day short of a year and had to be replaced. I had a feeling it was the graphics card when I was met with a garbled screen followed by repeated kernal panics and the Apple Genius tech didn't even turn on my MBP when I showed him the log report I managed to print out after one successful restart before the screen went haywire and was followed by another kernal panic.

[conorkirk]

Maybe an Apple nVidia driver update would also bring the 8600M to the same performance as it on Windows. :mad:

[jjahshik32]

Maybe an Apple nVidia driver update would also bring the 8600M to the same performance as it on Windows. :mad:

But that's the thing.. there is no immediate update so Apple knows its not the 8600M GT cards that are affected.

Its the 8500M card that's defective but have a feeling its more like 8400M/8500M. :D

[CoolHand777]

My exactly one year old MBP died last week. I put it to sleep at night and it didn't wake in the morning. The display was dead. It has always run very hot, maybe it was the GPU. Apple was nice enough to take it under warranty even though my one year was up by a few days. Also, even though it was essentially inoperable, I was able to boot it as a Firewire disk, then xfer all my data and then wipe the disk before taking it in, so that was good. They will repair or replace. I wouldn't like to get another one with a defective GPU and have it fry another year down the road. My old Ti-Powerbook that the MBP replaced, was one cool-running laptop that I used for almost 5 years. It still works too! Why can't Apple make hardware like that anymore?

[kabunaru]

Why can't Apple make hardware like that anymore?

PowerPC Macs = Have superior hardware in terms of quality and were built to last.
Intel Macs= Have standard PC hardware.
:rolleyes:

[jjahshik32]

PowerPC Macs = Have superior hardware in terms of quality and were built to last.
Intel Macs= Have standard PC hardware.
:rolleyes:

You have to take into consideration that PPC probably ran alot cooler compared to the intel because it was really slow.

I'm glad apple went to intel, there are pIII laptops that still runs fine out there and even PI and PII.

[jjahshik32]

My exactly one year old MBP died last week. I put it to sleep at night and it didn't wake in the morning. The display was dead. It has always run very hot, maybe it was the GPU. Apple was nice enough to take it under warranty even though my one year was up by a few days. Also, even though it was essentially inoperable, I was able to boot it as a Firewire disk, then xfer all my data and then wipe the disk before taking it in, so that was good. They will repair or replace. I wouldn't like to get another one with a defective GPU and have it fry another year down the road. My old Ti-Powerbook that the MBP replaced, was one cool-running laptop that I used for almost 5 years. It still works too! Why can't Apple make hardware like that anymore?

Which model was it.. is it the 2.2ghz model?

[BenRoethig]

PowerPC Macs = Have superior hardware in terms of quality and were built to last.
Intel Macs= Have standard PC hardware.
:rolleyes:

Tell that to us Icebook owners. Mine is on its 4th logic board. The G5 iMac were also known for their problems. Lets revise this a little.

Pre-Ive Macs= Built for practicality and quality
Ive Macs= designed to look great but push the thermal envelope to a fine line.

[CoolHand777]

Which model was it.. is it the 2.2ghz model?

Yup, the 2.2ghz one.

[nikhsub1]

Well, my MBP is back from service... replaced the mother board and it is good to go!

[Teej guy]

My motherboard had to be replaced as well. You'd turn on the computer, it would be running, you could put in a password and hear the Windows login sound, but there was no video output to the screen or even out of the DVI port.

However, I don't care, because they replaced an SR 2.2 128MB V-RAM board with an SR 2.6 512MB V-RAM one :D

It definitely convinced me to buy Applecare though, I'll be doing that shortly before my year is up.

[jjahshik32]

From my constant researching the affected gpu sounds like so far the 2.2ghz mbp with the 128mb vram gpu for the mbp and the dell m1330 and 1530 with the 8400M GS GPU cards are affected as well.

And with the announcement of the 8500M Series, yet there arnt many laptops with this gpu installed.. I think from ASUS and duno the other brand had them.. maybe over seas had more of the 8500M than here in the US, such as Europe and Asian perhaps?

[jjahshik32]

So what now.. wait until gpu fails or sell now and try to scrounge up as much dough for the next batch of mbp.

[Standard]

Well your situation may not be so bad, keep it like others are saying!

[iCries]

So what now.. wait until gpu fails or sell now and try to scrounge up as much dough for the next batch of mbp.

I'm going to sell mine and buy the new one, hell even if the old one doesnt get sold I'll get the new one, I'm fed up with this crap version.

[jjahshik32]

I'm going to sell mine and buy the new one, hell even if the old one doesnt get sold I'll get the new one, I'm fed up with this crap version.

I'm with you, currently trying to sell it and going to wait for the newer mbp.

Now that I think about it, do you think all the OEM vendors told Nvidia to keep their mouth shut about the specific laptops/gpu having issues so that it can be more complicated than it seems?

This could help oem vendors with exchanges/repairs/replacements. That's where the higher rpm of the fans come in from some of the oem vendors instead of announcing the specific gpu so it wouldnt be needed for the oem to recall all of the laptops that they sold?

[iCries]

I'm with you, currently trying to sell it and going to wait for the newer mbp.

Now that I think about it, do you think all the OEM vendors told Nvidia to keep their mouth shut about the specific laptops/gpu having issues so that it can be more complicated than it seems?

This could help oem vendors with exchanges/repairs/replacements. That's where the higher rpm of the fans come in from some of the oem vendors instead of announcing the specific gpu so it wouldnt be needed for the oem to recall all of the laptops that they sold?

I really dont know, I think both parts are negotiating, and Nvidia just showed that its newly found arrogance over the past time has made them sink to new lows, blaming the customers/oems, I have never seen this before, lol.

Obviously Nvidia cant do much besides replacing the parts and reimbursing the oems which will reimburse the customers, but I think Nvidia is trying to stall and make it seem like a small outbreak when it is in fact a general design defect so they can try to make the OEMs take part of the hit also, and most importantly I dont think they want to make a announcement where they show that they are in fact behind the problem; because that will just give them a much larger hit to they're stocks.

Im generally bored atm with the notebook industry because there really isnt anything that is special out now or coming out soon also, I mean the new GPUs from nvidia barely give any performance gains, if Apple opts for the highend ATi cards it would surely be very nice for MBP buyers but still there's nothing really special right now, I dont think we will see anything revolutionary when it comes to notebook performance until atleast 2 years from now.

I just feel general disappointment, I think its really likely that we might see some cheap **** card from Nvidia in the next MBP, I really hope we don't, but they're cheap and Apple certainly likes buying cards for 200$ and making it an 1000$ upgrade for consumers who want dedicated graphics. Secondly, if my work didn't require Mac OSX I would never opt for an mac, I love Apple, I love their designs, the OS, but it just doesn't justify the price tag. It's really funny to see friends of mine buy DELL XPS 1730 which is maxxed out for the same price of a midrange MBP which used a 2 year old GPU, while they get more memory, SLI 8800M GTX, more storage, etc.

And at the same time, I'm a huge home entertainment geek, I got a big flat tv etc and the MBP just doesn't work as good with my entertainment needs as a midrange xps or even a inspiron, it's really sad, but the fact that I paid 4k$ for an outdated machine which is as hot as a frying pan, just constantly makes me depressed. Oh well.

[jjahshik32]

I really dont know, I think both parts are negotiating, and Nvidia just showed that its newly found arrogance over the past time has made them sink to new lows, blaming the customers/oems, I have never seen this before, lol.

Obviously Nvidia cant do much besides replacing the parts and reimbursing the oems which will reimburse the customers, but I think Nvidia is trying to stall and make it seem like a small outbreak when it is in fact a general design defect so they can try to make the OEMs take part of the hit also, and most importantly I dont think they want to make a announcement where they show that they are in fact behind the problem; because that will just give them a much larger hit to they're stocks.

Im generally bored atm with the notebook industry because there really isnt anything that is special out now or coming out soon also, I mean the new GPUs from nvidia barely give any performance gains, if Apple opts for the highend ATi cards it would surely be very nice for MBP buyers but still there's nothing really special right now, I dont think we will see anything revolutionary when it comes to notebook performance until atleast 2 years from now.

I just feel general disappointment, I think its really likely that we might see some cheap **** card from Nvidia in the next MBP, I really hope we don't, but they're cheap and Apple certainly likes buying cards for 200$ and making it an 1000$ upgrade for consumers who want dedicated graphics. Secondly, if my work didn't require Mac OSX I would never opt for an mac, I love Apple, I love their designs, the OS, but it just doesn't justify the price tag. It's really funny to see friends of mine buy DELL XPS 1730 which is maxxed out for the same price of a midrange MBP which used a 2 year old GPU, while they get more memory, SLI 8800M GTX, more storage, etc.

And at the same time, I'm a huge home entertainment geek, I got a big flat tv etc and the MBP just doesn't work as good with my entertainment needs as a midrange xps or even a inspiron, it's really sad, but the fact that I paid 4k$ for an outdated machine which is as hot as a frying pan, just constantly makes me depressed. Oh well.

lol, i'm a huge entertainment system guy too. Just got a 52" sony bravia xbr4 6 months ago using b&w 685 speakers as my main (had the 805S and htm4 as center piece but sold them) these little speakers packs a huuge punch heh great for the price !!

Also I d/l movies and use a popcorn hour to stream or 1080p movies with full dts movies on my 1tb drives to stream .wmv movies with aac3, aac, dts, 1080p to the xbox 360 using connect360(app on a mac) to stream from my mac to my xbox360 to the bravia for movies and ps3 to play games and modded 360 for everysingle game I have d/led helps too. :D

[iCries]

lol, i'm a huge entertainment system guy too. Just got a 52" sony bravia xbr4 6 months ago using b&w 685 speakers as my main (had the 805S and htm4 as center piece but sold them) these little speakers packs a huuge punch heh great for the price !!

Also I d/l movies and use a popcorn hour to stream or 1080p movies with full dts movies on my 1tb drives to stream .wmv movies with aac3, aac, dts, 1080p to the xbox 360 using connect360(app on a mac) to stream from my mac to my xbox360 to the bravia for movies and ps3 to play games and modded 360 for everysingle game I have d/led helps too. :D

awesome ;P
ye I dl a lot also :P when they make the high def formats consumer price friendly then them and me can talk business. :P

[Setmose]

Apple's cash position as of Feb. 2008 is 18+ Billion Dollars:

http://www.financialweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080225/REG/259088503/1022/opinion

This is exactly the type of contingency that Apple has kept the cash around for. According to analysts, Jobs is *very* cautious, and has always wanted to be in a nimble position to fix supply problems. And this looks to be the mother of all supply problems.

Expect Apple to step up and do the right thing. If it means a big recall on MBP, an Apple flagship product, I think they will do it. With the expanding battery they took back a lot of units, and appropriately laid the blame at the vendor's door.

Nvidia has initially earmarked 200 Million to make things right. That seems tiny compared to the reported scale of the disaster. Whether Apple gets their money back from Nvidia who knows, maybe just some of it. But Apple could easily write down 800 Million and look like heroes to their customers and in the industry.

This is the time Steve.

-- Worried Owner of April 2008 Manufactured MBP

Post Script

Nvidea has another financial report coming out Aug. 12, and analysts are expecting much more disclosure or Nvidia is going to be punished in the stock market to the point of extinction.

My question is: If they are slowly releasing information, and "knew about it for some time" did they do anything to correct it? Is there a time-wise cutoff for the bad chips, after which they started to make good ones? Or are all bad chips, still in bins, still being assembled into notebooks today? That would be hard to believe. Or not.

I don't want a mother board replacement until I'm certain that a good GPU is soldered on there!!

[Firefly2002]

PowerPC Macs = Have superior hardware in terms of quality and were built to last.
Intel Macs= Have standard PC hardware.
:rolleyes:

Definitely agree.

[CoolHand777]

I got my 2.2 MBP back from Apple. They were nice enough to fix it for free even though the warranty had just expired. They basically replaced all of the innards, new logic board, new hard drive, new several other things I couldn't decode from the work order. It runs just like it did before, VERY HOT, and a bit flaky with the video. I now have a 3 month warranty on parts and labor.

I'm generally pissed because my MBP has a high probability of failure within the next year because of the GPU. I've installed iStat Pro widget and I can see the GPU runs HOT. Of course I can just touch the keyboard and figure that out. So now if I sell my MBP I feel bad cause it's gonna die at some point, and if I keep it I feel bad also cause Apple has sold me a product with a design flaw and a limited life span. My old Ti Powerbook lasted 5 years and is still kicking (barely). This whole mess leaves a bad taste and gives me the idea that Apple and nVidia deserve a CLASS-ACTION LAW SUIT. This is how these sorts of things are remidied. Especially since neither Apple nor nVidia had fessed up as to the scale of the problem, judging from some of the posts to this thread.

Anyone have any thoughts on that subject (fessing up and class action law suit)?

[gr8bob]

Anyone have any thoughts on that subject (fessing up and class action law suit)?

Strongly considering..:rolleyes:

[otispunkmeyer]

my SR MBP went in the shop about a month ago

the display was just 2/3's solid grey and it would not go away. however the DVI port worked just fine.... so whether this is a GPU problem, who knows.

apparently the problem has been fixed, theyre just waiting on some replacement keyboard backlighting parts (coz that flaked out too) and then ill get it back, but they didnt say what the problem was or how it was fixed. ill enquire when i go to pick it up hopefully before the end of the next week.

[RHD]

First, I have to say that I am not at all technically literate and following this thread alone has been a challenge - but I would really appreciate some advice. I was planning on buyuing a 17" MBP this weekend and then I got on this website, looking to see if there are any soon to be released updates to the machine, and came across this issue. Having read as much as I can on this topic, I still can't figure out if this is indeed a problem with the "older" units, or an ongoing problem that would affect the computer I would buy now. I am an amateur photographer and decided to change from my Dell XPS to a MBP which I'm planning on using to edit photos in Photoshop and use for Powerpoint presentations for work. I don't need to get the computer immediately, but my Dell is on its "last legs" and my extended warrantly has expired so I'm getting very nervous every time it freezes up.
So, if you were me, would you feel confident in buying a MBP this weekend or would you wait - and how long? Thanks.

WAIT for the next revision to come out. It's probably only a month or so off anyway.
And yes my 17" 2.6 six month old MBP is developing graphics artifects and a black screen after sleep.

[greenmymac]

Wouldn't Apple pull these from the store if they are causing this many problems??? I have a feeling its just a minor occurrence with the MBP

[RHD]

Wouldn't Apple pull these from the store if they are causing this many problems??? I have a feeling its just a minor occurrence with the MBP

Pull their entire pro range of laptops? And replace them with what?

[greenmymac]

Pull their entire pro range of laptops? And replace them with what?

What I mean is... if there is a MAJOR problem they would not continue to sell them..

[panzer06]

What I mean is... if there is a MAJOR problem they would not continue to sell them..

And what he meant was ... unless there is a problem that causes users to be injured or die (thereby creating liability beyond the profit of keeping them in the marketplace) Apple is not likely to pull their entire pro line of laptops, especially since none of the other laptop OEMs are doing so.

Cheers,

[greenmymac]

And what he meant was ... unless there is a problem that causes users to be injured or die (thereby creating liability beyond the profit of keeping them in the marketplace) Apple is not likely to pull their entire pro line of laptops, especially since none of the other laptop OEMs are doing so.

Cheers,

Ok well if it was a major problem wouldn't apple release a statement or be scrambling to fix it?

your turn!

[panzer06]

Ok well if it was a major problem wouldn't apple release a statement or be scrambling to fix it?

your turn!

Perhaps so, but in this case it looks like the problem is on a third-party component that is not easily replaced. They will most likely take the current HP approach, which is repair 'em when they break and make out of warranty exceptions on a case by case basis. Remember, this doesn't just impact Apple and believe me these laptop manufactures are not going to do a wholesale recall without there being a safety issue forcing them to do so.

Cheers,

[greenmymac]

Perhaps so, but in this case it looks like the problem is on a third-party component that is not easily replaced. They will most likely take the current HP approach, which is repair 'em when they break and make out of warranty exceptions on a case by case basis. Remember, this doesn't just impact Apple and believe me these laptop manufactures are not going to do a wholesale recall without there being a safety issue forcing them to do so.

Cheers,

You Win ;) Well I hope when I buy my MBP at the end of August it doesn't have any issues!

[RHD]

You Win ;) Well I hope when I buy my MBP at the end of August it doesn't have any issues!

Why not wait a month or so and see if the next version due out soon uses a different graphics card?

[greenmymac]

Why not wait a month or so and see if the next version due out soon uses a different graphics card?

Because I like the current model as is....There is nothing I don't like about it

[valvehead]

Perhaps so, but in this case it looks like the problem is on a third-party component that is not easily replaced. They will most likely take the current HP approach, which is repair 'em when they break and make out of warranty exceptions on a case by case basis. Remember, this doesn't just impact Apple and believe me these laptop manufactures are not going to do a wholesale recall without there being a safety issue forcing them to do so.

Cheers,

Yes, that and in order to do a recall, they would have to have something to replace it with. I seriously doubt that Nvidia would have a new batch of redesigned GPUs for 18 million laptops. The failure rate would have to be really high to justify a recall of that scale.

[RHD]

Because I like the current model as is....There is nothing I don't like about it

Well OK, fine.
Just don't come complaining to us if your graphics card dies in a years time.

[MagnusVonMagnum]

What I mean is... if there is a MAJOR problem they would not continue to sell them..

Given they are unlikely to fail within your initial warranty period (unless you buy AppleCare in which case you've already paid for the fix), they aren't likely to do ANYTHING about the problem, IMO. Apple couldn't care less if you get a defect like that. It just means you'll be buying another laptop from them that much sooner. They know true Apple fans aren't likely to jump ship no matter how bad their service gets or how high their prices are or how short their warranties are that come with them because true Mac heads don't want Windows no matter what.

[greenmymac]

Well OK, fine.
Just don't come complaining to us if your graphics card dies in a years time.

Well since I don't do any thing hardcore on my mac to begin with It should last a while!

[CoolHand777]

Because I like the current model as is....There is nothing I don't like about it

Except for maybe a defective GPU.

[UltraNEO*]

Well OK, fine.
Just don't come complaining to us if your graphics card dies in a years time.

Hmm.. mine MBP is just over a yeah old. Gonna be floggin it off locally, don't really care how much I get, if it's more, then the merrier!! It's still ticking despite being used and mis-treated. Though, it's already earned it weight in gold after six months service. Question is, should i sell it as a upgraded machine or revert it to factory default?

[CoolHand777]

When I got my MBP back from Apple it was running really hot, same as before. I've since managed to finagle a free 10.5 upgrade disk from Apple tech support (since my MBP came back from the repair depot with 10.5 installed. I wiped it clean and put 10.4 back on it initially). After reinstalling 10.5 and adding 2GB more memory, the GPU seems to be running a slight bit cooler (around upper 70s to low 80s centigrade according to iStat Pro, versus upper 80s C before), although it still does flakey things when connecting external video to the DVI port, and sometimes freezes. Other than that, seems to be running better. I'll be keeping an eye on that sucker... :rolleyes:

[koobcamuk]

My MBP (bought new from store in June) just sat there for about 2 minutes completely frozen. I hadn't saved my LaTeX document for about 5 hours and I had done loads of work on it - so I was crapping myself. Just saved it though - it unfroze.

What's going on here? :(

[RHD]

Well since I don't do any thing hardcore on my mac to begin with It should last a while!

Then why do you need a high end computer like the Pro? Wouldn't a standard MacBook or the sweet little Air be more appropriate?

[quagmire]

Then why do you need a high end computer like the Pro? Wouldn't a standard MacBook or the sweet little Air be more appropriate?


Well there is aesthetics. Aircraft grade aluminum> plastic. Plus, if he is like me, I can't stand the thought of an integrated GPU. I refuse to buy a MB as long as it has an integrated GPU. The MBA is an exception due to its designed purpose.

[bartzilla]

I'm with you, currently trying to sell it and going to wait for the newer mbp.

Now that I think about it, do you think all the OEM vendors told Nvidia to keep their mouth shut about the specific laptops/gpu having issues so that it can be more complicated than it seems?

This could help oem vendors with exchanges/repairs/replacements. That's where the higher rpm of the fans come in from some of the oem vendors instead of announcing the specific gpu so it wouldnt be needed for the oem to recall all of the laptops that they sold?

I suspect if anything like this happened it's the other way around.

Why would Dell, Sony, HP, Samsung, Apple and Lenovo plus countless others I've forgot all get together in some dark room with mulder and scully stumbling about outside with torches to talk about a big conspiracy to stop nvidia taking the blame for nvidia's mistakes and instead take the blame themselves for nvidia's mistakes (I'm assuming the rumours about how bad it might be are more or less true).

What possible benefit would there be to all these vendors to take the blame for someone else's mistakes instead of being able to tell customers: "Our quality control is good but we've been let down by that lot over there, who will be footing the bill for you to get a replacement / repair without the defect"?

[Firefly2002]

This whole thing is just kind of a crap chute. I love the look of the current MBP, but it's got a defective GPU. The new models will come out soon enough.... but will be only a hair faster at best, will (probably) have a GPU that's not defective, but will be redesigned, for the first time in eight years (at the very moment I'm buying an Apple laptop for the first time) to something I'm going to hate. Rounded corners, chiclet keyboard, thinner laptop.

The older MBPs don't have a graphics card I'd really be able to live with.

Talk about bad luck..?

[zsft]

This whole thing is just kind of a crap chute. I love the look of the current MBP, but it's got a defective GPU. The new models will come out soon enough.... but will be only a hair faster at best, will (probably) have a GPU that's not defective, but will be redesigned, for the first time in eight years (at the very moment I'm buying an Apple laptop for the first time) to something I'm going to hate. Rounded corners, chiclet keyboard, thinner laptop.

The older MBPs don't have a graphics card I'd really be able to live with.

Talk about bad luck..?

everyone says this. i bet you a week after they release it, everyone's gonna be so in love and talking on and on about how beautiful it looks. and then i'm going to ask you again and cite this post, and then you'll say oh well it's better than the thinkpads.

[drewsof07]

It just means you'll be buying another laptop from them that much sooner. They know true Apple fans aren't likely to jump ship no matter how bad their service gets or how high their prices are or how short their warranties are that come with them because true Mac heads don't want Windows no matter what.

Very true, there is a growing number of desktop hackintosh users, but as far as mobile machines go, :apple: has us by the B@ll$...

[Firefly2002]

everyone says this. i bet you a week after they release it, everyone's gonna be so in love and talking on and on about how beautiful it looks. and then i'm going to ask you again and cite this post, and then you'll say oh well it's better than the thinkpads.

Erm.... whether or not that holds true for others, it won't hold true for me. I know what I like, and I've liked the way the PowerBook G4 enclosure has looked since it was introduced.

Don't much like the MBs... didn't much like the 12" PB; thought the original Kanga PB G3 was hideous; liked the Wallstreet/Pismos a lot.

Hate the chiclet keyboard, don't think the Air looks that great.

I'm picky.

[greenmymac]

Thats why im getting MBP because its a nice product!

[drewsof07]

I sent mine off for repair today, I was having constant kernel panics and color issues as well as freezing during regular Halo sessions. This is a replacement Penryn that I just got in April for my Merom I bought in Dec 06 because after 3 repairs and 2 logic boards it still wouldn't charge the batt.

Has anyone had any luck with logic board replacements fixing their problems?? Because if these problems persist after the repair, I am going to "strongly request" they replace it with something thats not a MBP. Especially because everytime I try to unplug it to use as a portable, it goes into spazz mode and becomes worthless until I force restart. I would much rather have an iMac or even Mac Pro since I paid $2200 + $250 Aplcare + $100 HD upgrade originally.

[ocbaud]

alright, well i work for Dell, and they started a new policy not to long ago that extends the warranty for all M1330 notebooks(with m8400 chips) for the lifetime of the system for issues involving the graphics chip going out.

so say 3-4 years after your warranty expires on your m1330, your nvidia geforce 8400m goes out, dell will replace the board for free.

i believe they'll be extending it to other systems that may be affected too, hopefully apple will do us right and go the same way.

[PDE]

alright, well i work for Dell, and they started a new policy not to long ago that extends the warranty for all M1330 notebooks(with m8400 chips) for the lifetime of the system for issues involving the graphics chip going out.

so say 3-4 years after your warranty expires on your m1330, your nvidia geforce 8400m goes out, dell will replace the board for free.

i believe they'll be extending it to other systems that may be affected too, hopefully apple will do us right and go the same way.

Where did you get your lifetime information from? It seems they're talking about extending the warranty by 12 months...incredibly poor way of dealing with the issue. And Apple is even worse, of course!


http://direct2dell.com/one2one/archive/2008/08/18/nvidia-gpu-update-dell-to-offer-warranty-enhancement-to-all-affected-customers-worldwide.aspx

[CoolHand777]

I was in the local apple store the other day talking to a kid that works there that seemed to know his ****. I mentioned my MBP graphic chip woes and he said that apple will be covering graphic chip issues for 2 years past end of warranty. don't know if this is reliable or not, but interesting none the less...

[Manzana]

I was in the local apple store the other day talking to a kid that works there that seemed to know his ****. I mentioned my MBP graphic chip woes and he said that apple will be covering graphic chip issues for 2 years past end of warranty. don't know if this is reliable or not, but interesting none the less...

They have officially stated that in tech bulletin TS2377, but it is 2 years from date of purchase.

[emex]

Even after I had my 8600GT replaced, I continued to have issues.

While the initial replacement took only a day, Retail Apple is now making me wait a week to send it into the repair depot saying they can no longer order that part nor do they have it in-store.

Waiting a week is going to be painful, had anyone else had a similar experience?