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MG0Blue
Jul 10, 2008, 10:52 AM
Not very fair Apple, not very fair. :(



aethelbert
Jul 10, 2008, 10:54 AM
Yeah you'll have to wait for *gasp* a few hours! Oh no! You can't even update the iPhone through iTunes yet, so your argument is moot.

italiano40
Jul 10, 2008, 10:54 AM
2.0 isn't available for anything
iphone 2.0 was found in a random link on apple's web site
it official hasn't been released

smiddlehurst
Jul 10, 2008, 10:55 AM
Not very fair Apple, not very fair. :(

With all due respect what ARE you talking about? The iPhone update is only available via a cludge, not through iTunes. The iPod update must be PAID FOR and therefore will only be available through iTunes while the iPhone update is free and therefore there's a workaround available to find the update. Wait and see if both hit iTunes at the same time, if not then you have a valid complaint.

grapes911
Jul 10, 2008, 10:55 AM
Being that 2.0 for the iPhone is not officially released, how can you say that? Someone just happened to find the download link for the iPhone version. You won't find the Touch 2.0 firmware link until after it's officially released because you have to pay for it.

MG0Blue
Jul 10, 2008, 10:57 AM
With all due respect what ARE you talking about? The iPhone update is only available via a cludge, not through iTunes. The iPod update must be PAID FOR and therefore will only be available through iTunes while the iPhone update is free and therefore there's a workaround available to find the update. Wait and see if both hit iTunes at the same time, if not then you have a valid complaint.

I have absolutely no problem paying for it. What I'm saying is that it kind of sucks sitting here on the sidelines.

DaveGee
Jul 10, 2008, 10:58 AM
2.0 isn't available for anything
iphone 2.0 was found in a random link on apple's web site
it official hasn't been released

Exactly... Well perhaps not exactly 'some random link' (someone knew exactly were to find it) but yea... the back-door download/update was NOT a formal Apple release by any stretch of the word. I'm willing to bet ONCE the firmware update is made available DIRECTLY thru the official iTunes software update process to iPhone users it will also be made available to Touch users as well.

Difference being the iPhone update will be a free download while the iPod Touch update will be a paid (9.99) download.

Dave

smiddlehurst
Jul 10, 2008, 11:11 AM
I have absolutely no problem paying for it. What I'm saying is that it kind of sucks sitting here on the sidelines.

*sigh*

We are NOT sitting on the sidelines. EVERYONE is sitting on the sidelines right now unless they download from a link someone happened to find. 2.0 is not out yet, for either device, period. The comment about paying for the iPod upgrade was just to point out that Apple have to deliver that update in a different fashion to the iPhone one hence someone with waaaay too much time on their hands can find a direct link to the iPhone firmware but not the iPod one.

arkitect
Jul 10, 2008, 11:13 AM
I have absolutely no problem paying for it. What I'm saying is that it kind of sucks sitting here on the sidelines.

Everyone is on the "sidelines"

See this thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=5759239#post5759239).
Might cheer you up.

MG0Blue
Jul 10, 2008, 11:14 AM
*sigh*

We are NOT sitting on the sidelines. EVERYONE is sitting on the sidelines right now unless they download from a link someone happened to find. 2.0 is not out yet, for either device, period. The comment about paying for the iPod upgrade was just to point out that Apple have to deliver that update in a different fashion to the iPhone one hence someone with waaaay too much time on their hands can find a direct link to the iPhone firmware but not the iPod one.

Really? Clicking a direct link to download the software on the front page of macrumors.com is someone with way too much time on their hands?

Wow.

aethelbert
Jul 10, 2008, 11:19 AM
Really? Clicking a direct link to download the software on the front page of macrumors.com is someone with way too much time on their hands?

Wow.Wow, just wow. He's saying that the person that FOUND the link has way too much time on his hands. It's not like it just magically appeared on macrumors without someone finding it first.

MG0Blue
Jul 10, 2008, 11:22 AM
Wow, just wow. He's saying that the person that FOUND the link has way too much time on his hands. It's not like it just magically appeared on macrumors without someone finding it first.

The right thing to do at this point would be to release it officially. The horse has left the barn, people with iPhones are downloading and upgrading. Maybe not the general public, but quite a few people are.

184550
Jul 10, 2008, 11:24 AM
Then could this be the cause of two problems that I am having with my iPod Touch? I downloaded 7.7 this morning, but when I connect my iPod Touch, iTunes freezes and my ipod fails to show up. Also, the Applications tab/ bar on the left side of iTunes is not appearing.

aethelbert
Jul 10, 2008, 11:24 AM
The right thing to do at this point would be to release it officially. The horse has left the barn, people with iPhones are downloading and upgrading. Maybe not the general public, but quite a few people are.
Quite a few people got the final version of 10.5 from unofficial like a week before its launch in October. That didn't mean that they should've just released it early. They said that it would come on 11 July. I don't see what the problem is. Patience is a virtue.

testeng1966
Jul 10, 2008, 11:30 AM
You need to go to prefences and check the applications box.
THen it will apprear, but still not available yet on itunes USA, Can be seen if you change countries to new zealand

Then could this be the cause of two problems that I am having with my iPod Touch? I downloaded 7.7 this morning, but when I connect my iPod Touch, iTunes freezes and my ipod fails to show up. Also, the Applications tab/ bar on the left side of iTunes is not appearing.

184550
Jul 10, 2008, 11:38 AM
Thanks Testeng, does this also account for the iPod touch not syncing and freezing iTunes? So I would assume tomorrow, July 11th, everything will be fine?

Eraserhead
Jul 10, 2008, 11:41 AM
My iPod Touch is working OK with iTunes 7.7, though it has had some cable issues.

AceFernalld
Jul 10, 2008, 12:12 PM
Once iPhone 2.0 is officially available through Check For Updates, it will also be available for the iPod touch, so within a few hours.

mavis
Jul 10, 2008, 01:06 PM
I have absolutely no problem paying for it. What I'm saying is that it kind of sucks sitting here on the sidelines.
I agree completely!! ;)

bbbensen
Jul 10, 2008, 01:09 PM
Im just pissed I cant get Super Monkey Ball. :(


EDIT:

Never Mind.

Research fail. :p

krusej23
Jul 10, 2008, 01:29 PM
You need to go to prefences and check the applications box.
THen it will apprear, but still not available yet on itunes USA, Can be seen if you change countries to new zealand

You don't need to change your country to New Zealand to see the applications. I kept mine to US and I can see them just fine.

Trooperof3
Jul 10, 2008, 01:32 PM
ya, it doesn't bother me 2 much that i have to wait another day.

But on the other hand.. It really makes me sad because I feel that as an Ipod Touch user.. that Apple thinks of me as their redheaded stepchild. I have yet to feel any love fro apple. :( The only thing they care about is there little miss perfect Iphone..

Damn you Steve Jobs. Damn You!!!!

kkat69
Jul 10, 2008, 01:34 PM
http://www.zanyzeus.co.nz/images/Photos/wine_and_cheese.jpg

alchemistmuffin
Jul 10, 2008, 01:39 PM
I DON'T WANT TO WAIT....
I WANT THE UPDATE NOW!!!!!!!!!

COME ON APPLE...
DON'T BE LAZY AND GET WORKING.....
I MEAN IT...

I HAD TO SPEND 20 MIN ON iTunes INSTALL.... I WANT THE UPDATE NOW!!!!

Note: I already update my current iPhone to 2.0, then installed the exchange server... (I'm a developer, so I got the 1st iPhone for developmental use, and tomorrow, my company is giving me a free iPhone 3G as corporate gift to all, and to get us use the exchange server)

smiddlehurst
Jul 10, 2008, 01:54 PM
The right thing to do at this point would be to release it officially. The horse has left the barn, people with iPhones are downloading and upgrading. Maybe not the general public, but quite a few people are.

Yes, because heaven knows Apple have nothing else to do today...

Look, you need to understand how releases on this scale work. Apple will have a plan in place, complete with a LOT of alterantive scenarios, as to how, when and where everything launches over the next few days. On a very basic level it would cover MobileMe, iTunes 7.7, iPhone 3G, iPhone firmware 2.0, iPod Touch firmware 2.0 and the App Store. This is not a small undertaking, especially as most of these require downloading in some way shape or form. Contingency plans will be in place to handle any problems that occur (see MobileMe for example) up to and including full rollbacks.

Now in the case of iPhone and iPod firmware I would expect Apple to have scheduled a suitable chunk of time where they will have maxed out their support presence, have an arrangment in place with their bandwidth provider to increase their bandwidth for a time if required, ensured that it won't conflict with any other priority that may be around (again, at the moment, I'd suspect any crisis response resource is currently busy on MobileMe) and bumped up their customer support team as well. On top of this you also need to have resource available to handle any problems that occur with App Store as it's going to get hammered the instant 2.0 goes live.

Honestly, if I were Apple, I'd see no reason to rush release 2.0, or even to have it out before the new iPhone launches. The pre-requisite isn't the firmware, it's iTunes 7.7 and the changes to MobileMe. Those are both out and, hopefully, the issues with MobileMe will be sorted out by the time the big launches roll round (Europe and America mostly). Then let all the shiny new iPhones connect up, register, download all the free apps etc BEFORE letting everyone else upgrade. That's the safest path for a smooth rollout and gives them a small (relativley anyway) test base in the form of the 3G iPhone users to find any flaws. If they in fact let us existing owners upgrade at the same time then I'm actually quite impressed and REALLY want their bandwidth budget! :D

Basically you need to think about these things from a global perspective and not your own personal one. And to intercept the other whine about why they didn't launch 2.0 days ago, you have to remember it's a linked product to MobileMe, App Store, iTunes etc and in that case every day you can put on testing and preparation is a bonus. So long as everything's in place for new users on the 11th then all is well.

Jelite
Jul 10, 2008, 01:58 PM
You say you'll release it on the 11th and then you don't release it on the 10th, what the hell is wrong with you Apple!!!:mad::mad::mad:










;)

alchemistmuffin
Jul 10, 2008, 02:00 PM
Yes, because heaven knows Apple have nothing else to do today...

Look, you need to understand how releases on this scale work. Apple will have a plan in place, complete with a LOT of alterantive scenarios, as to how, when and where everything launches over the next few days. On a very basic level it would cover MobileMe, iTunes 7.7, iPhone 3G, iPhone firmware 2.0, iPod Touch firmware 2.0 and the App Store. This is not a small undertaking, especially as most of these require downloading in some way shape or form. Contingency plans will be in place to handle any problems that occur (see MobileMe for example) up to and including full rollbacks.

Now in the case of iPhone and iPod firmware I would expect Apple to have scheduled a suitable chunk of time where they will have maxed out their support presence, have an arrangment in place with their bandwidth provider to increase their bandwidth for a time if required, ensured that it won't conflict with any other priority that may be around (again, at the moment, I'd suspect any crisis response resource is currently busy on MobileMe) and bumped up their customer support team as well. On top of this you also need to have resource available to handle any problems that occur with App Store as it's going to get hammered the instant 2.0 goes live.

Honestly, if I were Apple, I'd see no reason to rush release 2.0, or even to have it out before the new iPhone launches. The pre-requisite isn't the firmware, it's iTunes 7.7 and the changes to MobileMe. Those are both out and, hopefully, the issues with MobileMe will be sorted out by the time the big launches roll round (Europe and America mostly). Then let all the shiny new iPhones connect up, register, download all the free apps etc BEFORE letting everyone else upgrade. That's the safest path for a smooth rollout and gives them a small (relativley anyway) test base in the form of the 3G iPhone users to find any flaws. If they in fact let us existing owners upgrade at the same time then I'm actually quite impressed and REALLY want their bandwidth budget! :D

Basically you need to think about these things from a global perspective and not your own personal one. And to intercept the other whine about why they didn't launch 2.0 days ago, you have to remember it's a linked product to MobileMe, App Store, iTunes etc and in that case every day you can put on testing and preparation is a bonus. So long as everything's in place for new users on the 11th then all is well.

I agree with you on some part, but some on others...
Apple needs to respect their customers...
It is their job to roll out the update to everyone in clean, and quick manner....

It is Apple's job to release the 2.0 update to all iPod touch owners who are willing to pay 10 dollars to upgrade immedietley....
they should have thought about reservation system, like album pre-orders that they do on iTunes....

DaveGee
Jul 10, 2008, 02:16 PM
I agree with you on some part, but some on others...
Apple needs to respect their customers...
It is their job to roll out the update to everyone in clean, and quick manner....

It is Apple's job to release the 2.0 update to all iPod touch owners who are willing to pay 10 dollars to upgrade immedietley....
they should have thought about reservation system, like album pre-orders that they do on iTunes....

Lets get this part really CLEAR!

Apple has not officially announced the availability nor rolled out the firmware 2.0 (via the proper iTunes Update method) to ANYONE!

People you are hearing from have taken it upon themselves to download code from a back-door link into Apples file distribution service. (okay back-door link might not be correct but none the less Apple never advertised that files presence nor did it instruct iPhone users to download the firmware and install it.

Give up the ghost... you are not going to get what you want anyway.. Apple will release the firmware TO THE PUBLIC in whatever time frame and fashion they desire.

It is Apple's job to release the 2.0 update to all iPod touch owners who are willing to pay 10 dollars to upgrade immedietley....

That one really cracked me up.... immediately..... The kid is talking like he's King of the World. :D

Dave

dsite
Jul 10, 2008, 03:22 PM
I'm a little upset and confused that if I want the 2.0 update, i'll be paying more money.

Other than additional profits, which in no way is bad for them, but to me as a consumer, I feel betrayed for being a loyal customer.

Betrayed might not be the exact word, but I feel as if I got the end of the bargain for buying an ipod touch.

Additional fees for an update...Its an update for crying out loud :( I feel entittled to it.

Ben

cheekybobcat
Jul 10, 2008, 03:30 PM
I have absolutely no problem paying for it. What I'm saying is that it kind of sucks sitting here on the sidelines.

That's what you get buying iPhones little brother...

Everyone always pays more attention to the older sibling..

smiddlehurst
Jul 10, 2008, 03:31 PM
Lets get this part really CLEAR!

Apple has not officially announced the availability nor rolled out the firmware 2.0 (via the proper iTunes Update method) to ANYONE!

People you are hearing from have taken it upon themselves to download code from a back-door link into Apples file distribution service. (okay back-door link might not be correct but none the less Apple never advertised that files presence nor did it instruct iPhone users to download the firmware and install it.

Give up the ghost... you are not going to get what you want anyway.. Apple will release the firmware TO THE PUBLIC in whatever time frame and fashion they desire.



That one really cracked me up.... immediately..... The kid is talking like he's King of the World. :D

Dave

Thanks, that saved me a lot more typing :D I'd love if these people that are complaining could please point to anything from Apple saying anything about when the upgrade will be officialy available. Note, upgrade, not iPhone firmware 2.0 in the 3G iPhone.

TheSpaz
Jul 10, 2008, 03:38 PM
I am a little bit disappointed in the fact that there's a ton of iPhone users out there currently downloading and enjoying the new 2.0 firmware and the touch users kinda feel like "Hey, can I play too?". I just wish that Apple did not even load the software on their servers until launch day. Apple must already know that people are going to find this stuff... it always happens. There's people out there right now clicking "Check for updates" every 4 and a half seconds to see if 2.0 is out yet. We're like savage wolves waiting to strike... and Apple is dangling the bait. That's how I feel. I wanna join in on the fun, but us poor iPod touch users are like the kids on the outside of the themepark.

LeeTom
Jul 10, 2008, 03:41 PM
As an iPhone user, I have to say I'm annoyed to have to listen to all this iPod Touch whining. I mean, seriously... oh wait, hold on... my iPhone just got done installing 2.0! Talk about it later!

sportsfrk214
Jul 10, 2008, 03:53 PM
I'm a little upset and confused that if I want the 2.0 update, i'll be paying more money.

Other than additional profits, which in no way is bad for them, but to me as a consumer, I feel betrayed for being a loyal customer.

Betrayed might not be the exact word, but I feel as if I got the end of the bargain for buying an ipod touch.

Additional fees for an update...Its an update for crying out loud :( I feel entittled to it.

Ben

It's a legal issue. Because the iPod Touch is not subscription based, aka, you don't have to pay to use it, Apple (supposedly) cannot issue major updates to it without charging a few. They can fix bugs, but adding new features is almost like giving you a new product, and they legally have to charge you. Updating the software is different than adding new features.

The iPhone, on the other hand, is subscription based. If you don't pay a monthly fee, it won't work. Therefore, because you are subscribing, they can give that update for free.

Don't think that you got the short end of the deal. These are features that were released after you purchased the product, leading me to assume you were satisfied with the product as is when you bought it. These features are an extra bonus, with a small charge on them. The most expensive iPod is $500, and with the 2 updates, that total is $530. The iPhone, with its 2 year contract, will run its owners over $2000. Trust me, you got a good deal with the iPod. And I think the large amount of free apps makes up for the small charge :)

You say you'll release it on the 11th and then you don't release it on the 10th, what the hell is wrong with you Apple!!!:mad::mad::mad:

Lol that cheered me up :D

ayale99
Jul 10, 2008, 03:57 PM
Typical American response: "I want it now!!!!"

America's consumerism culture has turned everybody into a bunch of whining brats. We want it all! We want it right now! And as soon as the next shiny object is rumored, your brand new 2.0 Firmware won't be cool anymore.

Believe me, I want 2.0 just as bad as anyone else, but it's not even out yet!!! You will have it soon. Until then, be patient.

sportsfrk214
Jul 10, 2008, 04:02 PM
I agree. And I've been saying, Steve Jobs said in the WWDC Keynote that it would be released July 11. So for all the complainers, go to bed early, and when you wake up you can download it, its not far away.

smiddlehurst
Jul 10, 2008, 04:02 PM
I am a little bit disappointed in the fact that there's a ton of iPhone users out there currently downloading and enjoying the new 2.0 firmware and the touch users kinda feel like "Hey, can I play too?". I just wish that Apple did not even load the software on their servers until launch day. Apple must already know that people are going to find this stuff... it always happens. There's people out there right now clicking "Check for updates" every 4 and a half seconds to see if 2.0 is out yet. We're like savage wolves waiting to strike... and Apple is dangling the bait. That's how I feel. I wanna join in on the fun, but us poor iPod touch users are like the kids on the outside of the themepark.

Again though, you have to consider this from the point of view of Apple's internal rollout procedures. You prep everything for a launch of this scale way in advance so when the first part rolls out you can just concentrate on the problems encountered. Why? Because, if something does go wrong, you don't want someone who's a tad stressed uploading the wrong file or forgetting to do it or one of a dozen other small things that could go wrong.

Also, let me just throw out two other thoughts here. 1) The 2.0 that's currently being downloaded might not even be the final one. It's unlikely but remember that all those grabbing it now have no actual conformation that it's not some weird internal build just for iPhones sold in the southern hemisphere between the hours of 3 and 4am :D. 2) If you were Apple... wouldn't you be tempted to use the rabid nature of the fan base to your advantage? You know if you put it out there they're going to find it so why not let them. If you get mass reports of bricked iPhones you can quietly suspend the rollout and say 'hey, not our fault, you downloaded a dev build rather than wait for the official' and then get working on finding the bug REALLY quickly.

tdhurst
Jul 10, 2008, 04:13 PM
ya, it doesn't bother me 2 much that i have to wait another day.

But on the other hand.. It really makes me sad because I feel that as an Ipod Touch user.. that Apple thinks of me as their redheaded stepchild. I have yet to feel any love fro apple. :( The only thing they care about is there little miss perfect Iphone..

Damn you Steve Jobs. Damn You!!!!

iPod Touch users ARE redheaded stepchildren. A Touch is a more basic version of the iPhone and the iPhone brings in much more revenue.

Quityerbitchin'

tdhurst
Jul 10, 2008, 04:15 PM
Typical American response: "I want it now!!!!"

America's consumerism culture has turned everybody into a bunch of whining brats. We want it all! We want it right now! And as soon as the next shiny object is rumored, your brand new 2.0 Firmware won't be cool anymore.

Believe me, I want 2.0 just as bad as anyone else, but it's not even out yet!!! You will have it soon. Until then, be patient.

I'm offended by your characterization. In accordance with another typical American response, I'm going to sue. Expect to get calls from Jesse Jackson, the ACLU, the ADA and PETA (just for good measure, as I can't be sure that you're a vegan).

alchemistmuffin
Jul 10, 2008, 05:04 PM
I'm offended by your characterization. In accordance with another typical American response, I'm going to sue. Expect to get calls from Jesse Jackson, the ACLU, the ADA and PETA (just for good measure, as I can't be sure that you're a vegan).

Yes, I have to agree with you...

IF YOU ARE AMERICAN, BE AN AMERICAN, BE IMPATIENT! BE WHINING,

BECAUSE WHEN WE WANT THE APP STORE ON iPod touch, WE WANT IT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

alchemistmuffin
Jul 10, 2008, 05:06 PM
I agree. And I've been saying, Steve Jobs said in the WWDC Keynote that it would be released July 11. So for all the complainers, go to bed early, and when you wake up you can download it, its not far away.

NO, I WOKE UP EARLY TO GET THIS UPGRADE TODAY...

I'M NOT GOING TO WAKE UP EARLY TOMORROW!

I WANT THE UPDATE NOW!

Doodledoo
Jul 10, 2008, 05:15 PM
NO, I WOKE UP EARLY TO GET THIS UPGRADE TODAY...

I'M NOT GOING TO WAKE UP EARLY TOMORROW!

I WANT THE UPDATE NOW!

...why would you wake up early? If you live in the States the suggestion was made that evrything would be up at 9am Pacific, so the earliest you'd need to wake up is...9am... oooh, how early

AceFernalld
Jul 10, 2008, 05:24 PM
I am a little bit disappointed in the fact that there's a ton of iPhone users out there currently downloading and enjoying the new 2.0 firmware and the touch users kinda feel like "Hey, can I play too?". I just wish that Apple did not even load the software on their servers until launch day. Apple must already know that people are going to find this stuff... it always happens. There's people out there right now clicking "Check for updates" every 4 and a half seconds to see if 2.0 is out yet. We're like savage wolves waiting to strike... and Apple is dangling the bait. That's how I feel. I wanna join in on the fun, but us poor iPod touch users are like the kids on the outside of the themepark.
+74

Oh well, let's just say it's released tomorrow around 8AM PDT, only 16 1/2 hours to go -_-

Why can't they just release it tonight?? Maybe midnight Cupertino time? :(

philo23
Jul 10, 2008, 05:25 PM
I'm not sure if people remember, but 1.1.4 was still available for download via a link, as it was through iTunes without paying, but when you paid it unlocked the other features (which where pretty much all of them).

Not that i agree the iPod Touch link should be available, just reminding people it isn't impossible that the link doesn't exist, its just got to be found ;)

AceFernalld
Jul 10, 2008, 05:25 PM
NO, I WOKE UP EARLY TO GET THIS UPGRADE TODAY...

I'M NOT GOING TO WAKE UP EARLY TOMORROW!

I WANT THE UPDATE NOW!

Take your alchemist muffins elsewhere!

Yvan256
Jul 10, 2008, 05:52 PM
1. The official release is tomorrow (2008-07-11), not today. Everyone calm down. :eek:

2. As an iPod touch owner I don't mind paying the upgrade fee since I don't have (excessive) monthly fees associated with my iPod touch. And if you want to get your money's worth, simply download a few free apps and convince yourself that the 10$ was for those apps. ;)

3. Where's the Mac mini update/replacement? :(

JML42691
Jul 10, 2008, 06:07 PM
NO, I WOKE UP EARLY TO GET THIS UPGRADE TODAY...

I'M NOT GOING TO WAKE UP EARLY TOMORROW!

I WANT THE UPDATE NOW!
Umm, why did you do that? Apple announced via a press release that the 2.0 software would be released on the 11th and today is the 10th. It hasn't been released, and the people that downloaded it now may not even have one that was meant to be distributed.

And before anybody complains to me, I am an iPod touch user and I am perfectly fine waiting, it'll just give me something to look forward to when I wake up tomorrow. (But I'll still be hitting the "check for update" button on the hour:D)

Chundles
Jul 10, 2008, 06:10 PM
1. The official release is tomorrow (2008-07-11), not today. Everyone calm down. :eek:

2. As an iPod touch owner I don't mind paying the upgrade fee since I don't have (excessive) monthly fees associated with my iPod touch. And if you want to get your money's worth, simply download a few free apps and convince yourself that the 10$ was for those apps. ;)

3. Where's the Mac mini update/replacement? :(

*looks at date*

11th July 2008

iPhone has been on sale now for more than 9 hours here. Time to push out the software guys.

mmzplanet
Jul 10, 2008, 06:15 PM
NO, I WOKE UP EARLY TO GET THIS UPGRADE TODAY...

I'M NOT GOING TO WAKE UP EARLY TOMORROW!

I WANT THE UPDATE NOW!

I want an Oompa-Loompa NOW!!!!!

A bunch of Verucas in this thread. ;)

nintendude
Jul 10, 2008, 06:17 PM
the press release said july 11th but didn't mention a time zone !

infectbda
Jul 10, 2008, 06:23 PM
I understand they set a date, but it seems like every other block is in place. The app store has launched, the 2.0 software is obviously finished - so why wait until tomorrow to launch it?

JML42691
Jul 10, 2008, 06:29 PM
the press release said july 11th but didn't mention a time zone !
The didn't set at time zone, but with Apple's history of doing things along with their headquarters being in California, it can be expected that it is going to be Pacific Time (PST). And probably 8AM PST. But with the east coast 3 hrs ahead of them, they might just make the release 5AM PST as they are an USA based company. So my guesses would be either 5AM PST or 8AM PST.

AceFernalld
Jul 10, 2008, 06:58 PM
The didn't set at time zone, but with Apple's history of doing things along with their headquarters being in California, it can be expected that it is going to be Pacific Time (PST). And probably 8AM PST. But with the east coast 3 hrs ahead of them, they might just make the release 5AM PST as they are an USA based company. So my guesses would be either 5AM PST or 8AM PST.

I <3 common sense.

pakkman781
Jul 10, 2008, 07:29 PM
While I agree with the above post, it is still extremely annoying that Apple is holding back a finished product with no good reason whatsoever...

JML42691
Jul 10, 2008, 07:46 PM
While I agree with the above post, it is still extremely annoying that Apple is holding back a finished product with no good reason whatsoever...
I feel that they do have a reason, they only have so many people that truly run their website and putting all the links and downloads up, and they probably planned that today would be for working all the MobileMe bugs out (which it appears they have been). It is also to spread out the downloads instead of having them stacked on top of each other, they released 7.7 middle of the night, then Apps start to download, and then 2.0 tomorrow, if those all happened at the same time their servers would be overloaded. And plus, they may not have planned on having it completed yet and for all we know it isn't, that 2.0 that is out right now may still be a beta. And they announced after WWDC that it would be released on the 11th, and with their run with Leopard getting delayed, how many of us actually thought that they would have it out on time?

pakkman781
Jul 10, 2008, 07:57 PM
I feel that they do have a reason, they only have so many people that truly run their website and putting all the links and downloads up, and they probably planned that today would be for working all the MobileMe bugs out (which it appears they have been). It is also to spread out the downloads instead of having them stacked on top of each other, they released 7.7 middle of the night, then Apps start to download, and then 2.0 tomorrow, if those all happened at the same time their servers would be overloaded. And plus, they may not have planned on having it completed yet and for all we know it isn't, that 2.0 that is out right now may still be a beta. And they announced after WWDC that it would be released on the 11th, and with their run with Leopard getting delayed, how many of us actually thought that they would have it out on time?

Those are valid points, I'm still annoyed though... And just to rant, why can't any company deliver anything on time here lately? Everything from everybody is delayed! Why can't anyone actually meet their release windows anymore?

aethelbert
Jul 10, 2008, 08:01 PM
I get the feeling that Apple really doesn't care too much about getting it out at a certain time. They're not concerned with your "OMG I NEED 2,0 RIGHT NOW." They said 11/7 for 2,0 and they've still got well over 30 hours to get that. For all anyone cares, they could push it out when it is 23:59 tomorrow in Midway and still have it out on time.

And for all those who think that it's unfair that a link was found to the iPhone ipsw, that link has been closed and there's speculation that it wasn't even the right version.

Patience is a virtue. They told us when it is coming, and many people decided that it just had to come earlier. Well, it hasn't. Believe it or not, Apple doesn't completely revolve around getting the iPod 2,0 firmware out as soon as possible. They've been having enough problems with their online services this week and to expect something to come early is absurd.

Those are valid points, I'm still annoyed though... And just to rant, why can't any company deliver anything on time here lately? Everything from everybody is delayed! Why can't anyone actually meet their release windows anymore?
Please, tell me what deadline they've missed. They announced 2,0's release for July 11. The whole "late June" thing was probably an estimate. Your personal deadlines and expectations are not the matter here.

Pretty much all of the information that we have points to the one date that they've given us to be correct.

alchemistmuffin
Jul 10, 2008, 08:15 PM
Okay, remember the iTunes server crash two years ago, when lot of people tried to redeem their iTunes gift card that they got for x-mas and that led to iTunes server completely crashing for next two days.....

I think Apple is thinking that by putting the iPod touch upgrade now without getting the iTunes server ready for possibly the large number of customers trying to upgrade, the repeat of the crash is very possible....

and when iTunes server crash, the people at Apple or mobile carriers will not be able to activate the new iPhone 3G with the modified iTunes for the customers, and you know what happens when there's a long line, and the phones can't be activated with modified iTunes at the store....

So be patient...
Let Apple put final touches to the iTunes server so that they can serve large number of iPod touch users with the new upgrade.....

macfan881
Jul 10, 2008, 08:16 PM
in otherwords to all the whineres the omg i want it now, Get a Life

alchemistmuffin
Jul 10, 2008, 08:19 PM
in otherwords to the whines omg i want it now Get a Life

You mean, Get a Mac... :D

But, you can get started for the anticipating upgrade by doing one thing:

BUY THE APPS THAT YOU WANT FROM iTunes...

then, when you buy the 2.0 upgrade, iTunes will not only load up the new firmware, but also add the apps that you bought from iTunes, so you can immediately undock the iPod touch once the sync is complete, and start enjoying the new app.....

pakkman781
Jul 10, 2008, 08:22 PM
Please, tell me what deadline they've missed. They announced 2,0's release for July 11. The whole "late June" thing was probably an estimate. Your personal deadlines and expectations are not the matter here.

That's convenient that you can completely call the late June window void when it benefits your argument ;)

in otherwords to all the whineres the omg i want it now, Get a Life

Well, at least I'm bugging somebody. WANT NOW! :P

JoeG4
Jul 10, 2008, 08:27 PM
Patience is a virtue. They told us when it is coming, and many people decided that it just had to come earlier. Well, it hasn't. Believe it or not, Apple doesn't completely revolve around getting the iPod 2,0 firmware out as soon as possible. They've been having enough problems with their online services this week and to expect something to come early is absurd.



I'm gleefully pointing out, that in the process, Apple is making a buttload of money. The fact that people like you are trying to be apologetic when they so much as stumble when introducing a new service and/or product is pretty damn funny, because we should be holding knives to their throats expecting picture perfect launches for the prices they charge.

Come on, really. The iPod Touch and iPhone are bought mostly by hardcore Apple people, At $70/month and $200 up front, you're paying about $2000 after taxes (maybe more) to use that iPhone for 2 years, and those of us who have iPod Touches paid $300 (more than any other MP3 player) for a few features, only to have it updated (at a price), and updated yet again (at a price, though it isn't available yet).

They aren't a charity, they're out there to make money, but I see absolutely no problem being outright demanding of Apple. They're in this to make a lot of money, and they're going to make EVEN MORE. If you think the iPod Touch isn't a "subscription model" device like they describe the AppleTV to be, then you're kidding yourself.

Do you think Apple is selling as a middleman, the apps on the iTunes store for free? They make billions off us, and I'm going to continue to be relentless with my expectations.

My final thought: If Apple can't introduce stuff in a timely manner with the kind of money they're making, I think it reflects really poorly on the company, and Steve Jobs' skills in running a company.

Do you think Lexus would be highly regarded if they made their owners of LS460s go to a Toyota dealer and wait in a filthy lounge next to someone who got their 5 year old Toyota Echo fixed? XD I believe Apple owners expect to be treated better than people who bought a Dell, ironic because in customer service (warranties, mail ins, etc) Apple tends to be even worse.

aethelbert
Jul 10, 2008, 08:27 PM
That's convenient that you can completely call the late June window void when it benefits your argument ;)
After having dealt with Apple for so many years, you learn that the first date is always wrong. Leopard in spring 2007, that was bs. 10.6 in eleven months? I called bs on that one over a month ago. Apple missing their first estimate by two weeks is quite impressive for them.

I'm gleefully pointing out, that in the process, Apple is making a buttload of money. The fact that people like you are trying to be apologetic when they so much as stumble when introducing a new service and/or product is pretty damn funny, because we should be holding knives to their throats expecting picture perfect launches for the prices they charge.

Come on, really. The iPod Touch and iPhone are bought mostly by hardcore Apple people, At $70/month and $200 up front, you're paying about $2000 after taxes (maybe more) to use that iPhone for 2 years, and those of us who have iPod Touches paid $300 (more than any other MP3 player) for a few features, only to have it updated (at a price), and updated yet again (at a price, though it isn't available yet).

They aren't a charity, they're out there to make money, but I see absolutely no problem being outright demanding of Apple. They're in this to make a lot of money, and they're going to make EVEN MORE. If you think the iPod Touch isn't a "subscription model" device like they describe the AppleTV to be, then you're kidding yourself.

Do you think Apple is selling as a middleman, the apps on the iTunes store for free? They make billions off us, and I'm going to continue to be relentless with my expectations.

My final thought: If Apple can't introduce stuff in a timely manner with the kind of money they're making, I think it reflects really poorly on the company, and Steve Jobs' skills in running a company.
FYI, a "picture perfect" launch doesn't need to be a day early. Even if you are paying for the product that is released.

pakkman781
Jul 10, 2008, 09:12 PM
After having dealt with Apple for so many years, you learn that the first date is always wrong. Leopard in spring 2007, that was bs. 10.6 in eleven months? I called bs on that one over a month ago. Apple missing their first estimate by two weeks is quite impressive for them.

Then you agree that Apple can't get their products out when they say they will. That's all I was saying. It seems to be the popular thing to do these days, with innumerable delayed products in the technology industry. Maybe I'm just an impatient person, but it only seems to get worse, particularly with companies that seem to be growing faster than their employee base does. it is also the fault of overzealous executive and marketing departments. Don't promise what you can't deliver!

marine610610
Jul 10, 2008, 09:16 PM
Wow.. Wow...

If 2.0 is this pressing to some of you.... well you must live pretty good lives.

JML42691
Jul 10, 2008, 09:22 PM
...it is also the fault of overzealous executive and marketing departments. Don't promise what you can't deliver!
I am sorry that you feel that way, but which would you rather have, a release on time that is EXTREMELY buggy, might not even work for regular use and frankly should still be in beta/developer mode, or a release that might be delayed somewhat that works near-flawlessly? I pick the second of the two options, how about you? And in Leopard, when they released it, it was very buggy, imagine if they released that on or near-on-time, you would be having a kernal panic or freezed computer every 10 minutes.

liquidh2o
Jul 10, 2008, 09:23 PM
I'm patient. Whether I'll want to pay for it or not is another matter :/

aethelbert
Jul 10, 2008, 09:38 PM
I am sorry that you feel that way, but which would you rather have, a release on time that is EXTREMELY buggy, might not even work for regular use and frankly should still be in beta/developer mode, or a release that might be delayed somewhat that works near-flawlessly? I pick the second of the two options, how about you? And in Leopard, when they released it, it was very buggy, imagine if they released that on or near-on-time, you would be having a kernal panic or freezed computer every 10 minutes.
Exactly. It's not like they gave us a date and then just didn't release it then. They updated us, and then told us the date of release, which stands true. Also think of this: Apple has to deal with not only their internal departments, but also with developers and cell providers in order to get 2,0 out. Cry us a river, but there are limitations on these things. Jobs isn't sitting in his office saying "ahh, screw them. I don't feel like releasing it on time." If they could, they would. If you can do it faster, please go work for Apple for the benefit of all of us.

Can we stop the complaining? You'll get it on time. Tomorrow. I promise.

marine610610
Jul 10, 2008, 09:48 PM
I'm patient. Whether I'll want to pay for it or not is another matter :/

This part i agree with. 400.00 bucks for a damn MP3 player and then you hit us up for another 10 to give us what should have been on it in the first place.

I love Apple products, but i catch myself wanting to kick Steve Jobs in the nuts quite a bit.

.Andy
Jul 10, 2008, 09:50 PM
This part i agree with. 400.00 bucks for a damn MP3 player and then you hit us up for another 10 to give us what should have been on it in the first place.

I love Apple products, but i catch myself wanting to kick Steve Jobs in the nuts quite a bit.
Why did you buy it if you considered it incomplete?

aethelbert
Jul 10, 2008, 09:52 PM
This part i agree with. 400.00 bucks for a damn MP3 player and then you hit us up for another 10 to give us what should have been on it in the first place.
Whenever something gets upgraded, people just start to pull this card. "oh, it should've been on there to begin with." Technology progresses constantly. If you thought that it was incomplete, you shouldn't have purchased it.

JML42691
Jul 10, 2008, 09:52 PM
This part i agree with. 400.00 bucks for a damn MP3 player and then you hit us up for another 10 to give us what should have been on it in the first place.

I love Apple products, but i catch myself wanting to kick Steve Jobs in the nuts quite a bit.
Haven't we beaten this issue to death enough on these forums:mad: The iPhone gets it free because it is a subscription base product, the touch has to pay because they are not subscription based, and Apple can't release new features for free for some legal reason that is mainly about supporting the stockholders. How would you feel if you had Apple stock supporting the company and they are handing out new features to hundreds of thousands, if not millions for free? You would just be watching your stock lose value.

Wild-Bill
Jul 10, 2008, 09:53 PM
I don't have a Touch, but my sister does. I already e-mailed her and told her not to buy it when it comes out. I'll find it somewhere ;) and send it to her.

Charging iPod Touch users $9.99 is just plain wrong. And for those of you who will inevitably disagree with me, put the kool-aid down.

JML42691
Jul 10, 2008, 09:55 PM
I don't have a Touch, but my sister does. I already e-mailed her and told her not to buy it when it comes out. I'll find it somewhere ;) and send it to her.

Charging iPod Touch users $9.99 is just plain wrong. And for those of you who will inevitably disagree with me, put the kool-aid down.
Good luck finding it, it should take you a while and you would be crossing legal lines if you distributed it, have fun! Be sure to tell us when you find it.

trekkie604
Jul 10, 2008, 09:56 PM
I don't have a Touch, but my sister does. I already e-mailed her and told her not to buy it when it comes out. I'll find it somewhere ;) and send it to her.

Charging iPod Touch users $9.99 is just plain wrong. And for those of you who will inevitably disagree with me, put the kool-aid down.

$10 is hardly the end of the world... It's just 2 less Starbucks Latte's for me this week.

TwinCities Dan
Jul 10, 2008, 10:03 PM
OMG! I'm not going to waste my time reading this thread because I already know what it is going to be filled with... :rolleyes:

Get your $10 ready and wait for tomorrow, Jeez... Gimme a break...

BTW, I'm glad :apple: is charging money for all their hard work, too bad it wasn't more... :eek:

liquidh2o
Jul 10, 2008, 10:15 PM
Whenever something gets upgraded, people just start to pull this card. "oh, it should've been on there to begin with." Technology progresses constantly. If you thought that it was incomplete, you shouldn't have purchased it.

It's the fact that Steve stated it's free for iphone users because it can be accounted for under the monthly payments for their cell phone plan. Because of (I can't remember which) accounting laws, they have to charge a fee for ipod touch users. I'm ok with a small amount, but it's $20 an update. And the kicker is, you can buy the same ipod touch you bought a while back, for the same price, but the updates are included at no charge. I see it a a milking tactic, but to each their own

aethelbert
Jul 10, 2008, 10:24 PM
It's the fact that Steve stated it's free for iphone users because it can be accounted for under the monthly payments for their cell phone plan. Because of (I can't remember which) accounting laws, they have to charge a fee for ipod touch users. I'm ok with a small amount, but it's $20 an update. And the kicker is, you can buy the same ipod touch you bought a while back, for the same price, but the updates are included at no charge. I see it a a milking tactic, but to each their own
First off, the update (this time) is 10USD (was 20 last time, if that's what you're referring to). Apple actually gets money from the iPhone contracts, which is most likely put in some fund for future iPhone stuff.

They could just make it so that the 2,0 update applies only to future iPods. But they let you upgrade (not update, they're different) for a fee, which most seem to think is fair. With hardware updates, the people that buy the new one will have the latest and greatest while the people with the previous model cannot do anything about it. At least with software, they give you the opportunity to upgrade. Whether you think that the fee is fair is completely subjective.

Cougarcat
Jul 10, 2008, 10:41 PM
Good luck finding it, it should take you a while and you would be crossing legal lines if you distributed it, have fun! Be sure to tell us when you find it.

I'm sure it will be available on the torrents within a week of its release. The iPod apps didn't take long, did it?

liquidh2o
Jul 10, 2008, 10:44 PM
First off, the update (this time) is 10USD (was 20 last time, if that's what you're referring to). Apple actually gets money from the iPhone contracts, which is most likely put in some fund for future iPhone stuff.

They could just make it so that the 2,0 update applies only to future iPods. But they let you upgrade (not update, they're different) for a fee, which most seem to think is fair. With hardware updates, the people that buy the new one will have the latest and greatest while the people with the previous model cannot do anything about it. At least with software, they give you the opportunity to upgrade. Whether you think that the fee is fair is completely subjective.

The previous fee was $20, there's been no indication that people won't have to pay $10 for the 2.0 update if they did the January upgrade (however, 2.0 includes the Jan upgrade in the cost). So that's an additional $30 all together to keep up to date if you choose to stay up to date with upgrades/updates. How many updates/upgrades before it becomes cost prohibitive to someone?

And I think you hit the point exactly, same hardware, you're paying for software, the cost of the update is already built into the purchase price of the new ipod touch (else they'd raise the price). You're right, Apple could just not offer an update, and would probably upset more customers. By offering updates for $xx they're covering their rear by saying "you can't see we didn't try", when in reality, they've put a person in a position to shell out more money, or to upgrade to a new ipod touch. What it is doing is covering their bottom line for R&D The third option is to not do either and be content with what you have, which is the route I've gone. I'd actually be interested in the cost benefit comparison between the update

p.s. apple doesn't receive $$$ from iphone contracts anymore. Yes, the cost is subsidized, and this may work out better for apple in the long run. I'd venture to say they're making roughly the same margins off the iphone as the ipod touch, it all depends on how much the carriers are subsidizing.

p.p.s. the first release was an upgrade, 2.0 is an update. That's apple ambiguity for you.

aethelbert
Jul 10, 2008, 11:05 PM
p.s. apple doesn't receive $$$ from iphone contracts anymore. Yes, the cost is subsidized, and this may work out better for apple in the long run. I'd venture to say they're making roughly the same margins off the iphone as the ipod touch, it all depends on how much the carriers are subsidizing.
Revenue sharing is over, but the carriers are now just paying fees to Apple for the iPhone. They're still getting about the same amount per contract, it just comes in a different way. This was made to accommodate some of the new contracts, such as those that don't have solid monthly fees.

JML42691
Jul 10, 2008, 11:10 PM
...p.p.s. the first release was an upgrade, 2.0 is an update. That's apple ambiguity for you.
No it's not, 2.0 is an upgrade, not an update.

liquidh2o
Jul 10, 2008, 11:12 PM
Revenue sharing is over, but the carriers are now just paying fees to Apple for the iPhone. They're still getting about the same amount per contract, it just comes in a different way. This was made to accommodate some of the new contracts, such as those that don't have solid monthly fees.

And most likely it was done because iphones were being activated without being signed up through AT&T, which means apple lost out on revenue sharing $$$.

We don't know that they're getting the same amount per contract, however we can speculate. And I imagine there would be a tradeoff on the subsidy vs revenue sharing, because in two years a dollar is worth more if received today than if received in two years. Which is why I'd like to know what amount exactly is being subsidized.

liquidh2o
Jul 10, 2008, 11:13 PM
No it's not, 2.0 is an upgrade, not an update.

ORLY?!

http://www.apple.com/ipodtouch/

*Access to the App Store requires the iPhone 2.0 Software Update for iPod touch, sold separately.

beppo
Jul 10, 2008, 11:13 PM
a lot of people don't seem to understand the situation here. apple gets $10 every month from every (original) iphone user that uses at&t. so they are paying $$ every month for those software upgrades. but lucky us me only have to pay for the major upgrade and if we don't like them we aren't forced to pay. sounds like a pretty good deal to me!

sorry if someone has all ready said this; i didn't read any of the comments.

also @ wwdc you may note that steve said "we got it down to $9.99" so it must be somewhat difficult to convince the money people in apple to lower the price to something more affordable.

pakkman781
Jul 10, 2008, 11:14 PM
I am sorry that you feel that way, but which would you rather have, a release on time that is EXTREMELY buggy, might not even work for regular use and frankly should still be in beta/developer mode, or a release that might be delayed somewhat that works near-flawlessly? I pick the second of the two options, how about you? And in Leopard, when they released it, it was very buggy, imagine if they released that on or near-on-time, you would be having a kernal panic or freezed computer every 10 minutes.

The matter is not about releasing too soon, but about making realistic promises. If you have a record of releasing things late, then put more thought into your release windows. I think you are misunderstanding my meaning here.

No it's not, 2.0 is an upgrade, not an update.

Do you work for Yazsoft? ;) What a silly spin!

aethelbert
Jul 10, 2008, 11:18 PM
And most likely it was done because iphones were being activated without being signed up through AT&T, which means apple lost out on revenue sharing $$$.

We don't know that they're getting the same amount per contract, however we can speculate. And I imagine there would be a tradeoff on the subsidy vs revenue sharing, because in two years a dollar is worth more if received today than if received in two years. Which is why I'd like to know what amount exactly is being subsidized.
I know a member of the board of directors for Swisscom and that's what he explained to me. It was a quick explanation and I didn't have time to go into detail so that's just my understanding of it. It makes sense that Apple continue to get similar revenue from iphones, though. It could be wrong, I don't know, but I figure that he's a pretty good source for all things Swisscom.

liquidh2o
Jul 10, 2008, 11:21 PM
I know a member of the board of directors for Swisscom and that's what he explained to me. It was a quick explanation and I didn't have time to go into detail so that's just my understanding of it. It makes sense that Apple continue to get similar revenue from iphones, though. It could be wrong, I don't know, but I figure that he's a pretty good source for all things Swisscom.

I'm Steve Jobs and I don't even know!?

Chances are very few people know all the details. I've explained the economics behind it though, which is what my opinion is rooted in. I'm sure we'll find out eventually. It's safe to assume though that (retail cost of iphone + Subsidy paid) - (component cost + R&D + etc) = Margin It's just a lot of blanks to fill in at the moment, but will be interesting to compare against the ipod touch margins

David G.
Jul 10, 2008, 11:25 PM
ORLY?!

http://www.apple.com/ipodtouch/

*Access to the App Store requires the iPhone 2.0 Software Update for iPod touch, sold separately.

Apple is not perfect. ie: They are wrong. They could call it a downgrade(:)) but any dictionary worth its weight in salt would tell you it is an upgrade.

liquidh2o
Jul 10, 2008, 11:25 PM
Apple is not perfect ie: they are wrong. They could call it a downgrade(:)) but any dictionary worth its weight in salt would tell you it is an upgrade.

Quite right, which is why I mentioned it's apple ambiguity at its best ;)

aethelbert
Jul 10, 2008, 11:28 PM
I'm Steve Jobs and I don't even know!?
Can I have your autograph?

Chances are very few people know all the details. I've explained the economics behind it though, which is what my opinion is rooted in. I'm sure we'll find out eventually. It's safe to assume though that (retail cost of iphone + Subsidy paid) - (component cost + R&D + etc) = Margin It's just a lot of blanks to fill in at the moment, but will be interesting to compare against the ipod touch margins
Hence my uncertainty in that post ;). Comparing the iPhone revenues should be interesting, though. I do agree on that one.

liquidh2o
Jul 10, 2008, 11:31 PM
Can I have your autograph?


Hence my uncertainty in that post ;). Comparing the iPhone revenues should be interesting, though. I do agree on that one.

Agreed :)

I do have to admit I am now tempted to upda...upgra..., to move....up(:p) to the 2.0 software for my touch since it includes the Jan apps

pakkman781
Jul 10, 2008, 11:32 PM
Apple is not perfect. ie: They are wrong. They could call it a downgrade(:)) but any dictionary worth its weight in salt would tell you it is an upgrade.

I think that's more of a matter of personal interpretation. However, in my interpretation, it would most certainly be considered an upgrade due to their charging for it. If it were free, it would be an update.

And just for the record, I have no problem whatsoever paying the $9.95. I'm not saying I'm happy with paying it, but $9.95 isn't enough to fret over. $9.95 is reasonable. I'd be saying differently if it were $99.95. Besides, it's almost as big of an update as say Tiger to Leopard, and Apple charges $139 for that!