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iGav
Dec 17, 2003, 07:17 AM
Interesting article at Business week....

rinky dink link...

http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/dec2003/tc20031217_5848_tc056.htm

jamdr
Dec 17, 2003, 09:29 AM
Well, March would be a lot better than summer, or during the WWDC at the end of June. As nice as the current line of PowerBooks is, they still aren't very fast. Certainly, their other features make up for that (in my opinion, which is why I bought one), but I'm really looking forward to a G5 PowerBook. I probably wouldn't buy a Rev. A, but once the technology is out there, I'm sure we will see it advance as nicely as the Desktop G5s.

Ever since last summer when the PowerMac G5 was released, I have been hoping that the PowerBook would be released during MWSF, but I guess that is becoming less and less likely. If they can ship one by March, though, I would be happy. I can't wait to see what it looks like...:D

iGav
Dec 17, 2003, 09:43 AM
Originally posted by jamdr
Well, March would be a lot better than summer, or during the WWDC at the end of June. As nice as the current line of PowerBooks is, they still aren't very fast. Certainly, their other features make up for that (in my opinion, which is why I bought one), but I'm really looking forward to a G5 PowerBook. I probably wouldn't buy a Rev. A, but once the technology is out there, I'm sure we will see it advance as nicely as the Desktop G5s.

Ever since last summer when the PowerMac G5 was released, I have been hoping that the PowerBook would be released during MWSF, but I guess that is becoming less and less likely. If they can ship one by March, though, I would be happy. I can't wait to see what it looks like...:D

PowerBook G5 is what I'm waiting for.... I just don't see a reason to spend the $ on a current PowerBook to replace my 1GHz TiBook.

I'm hoping for a WDC announcement and maybe July shipping, as that'll give me a saving up period.

As for the looks, I'd figure on it being pretty much the same as the current range as they've just been overhauled, I must admit, and I know I'm in the minority here, but I'd like to see and appearance of the G5's venting holes on it... love the G5 me.... :D

mactastic
Dec 17, 2003, 09:53 AM
The simple solution to all of these problems is to introduce a low-power, slower-speed chip specifically for laptops. That's what Apple and Motorola have done in the past with G4 laptop chips.

Is that true? I was under the impression that the G4 was the same chip whether laptop or desktop.

dongmin
Dec 17, 2003, 10:18 AM
Originally posted by mactastic
Is that true? I was under the impression that the G4 was the same chip whether laptop or desktop. no you're correct. there's only one chip for both desktop and laptop. BUT the G4 was designed from the get-go to be used as an embedded processor, meaning lower power consumption. The 970, on the other hand, is an adaptation of a server chip, which is at the opposite spectrum.

PeteyKohut
Dec 17, 2003, 10:41 AM
Well...I must say that this discussion is a bit more interesting than yesterday's cell-phone/PDA rumor rehash. I for one hope it does come out (who doesn't). Though, I am one to always wait for the first revision. So....I probably won't own one until 2005.

Sonofhaig
Dec 17, 2003, 10:42 AM
Do you think we'll get any info from the upcoming show?

iggyb
Dec 17, 2003, 10:48 AM
Hopefully, the new servers will be announced at MacWorld. They surely are due for an upgrade.

Although G5 Powerbooks sound suh-weet, I imagine we'll be waiting for quite some time before we can get a machine like that in our hands.

robotrenegade
Dec 17, 2003, 10:49 AM
Sounds like music to my ears.

SpY2K
Dec 17, 2003, 10:52 AM
once they figure out the cooling issues, this beast will be unstoppable! I've been informed they are ahead of schedule and that the G5 portables will be out in early 2004... although I am very skeptical of my source... and my own knowledge of the delays in the revised aluminum PowerBook G4s... lets hope sooner than later though :cool:

mrsebastian
Dec 17, 2003, 10:57 AM
drool... gimmie, gimmie, gimmie!

Maclicious
Dec 17, 2003, 11:22 AM
You know, I thought I'd be dying to get one of these powerbook G5s--but Apple did too good a job on its 17 inch alubooks. I can't think of a blessed thing that troubles me about my PB laptop experience (I'm on it 8+ hours a day, writing, blogging, or suring). I'm still using Jaguar for god sakes! (that'll probably change after Christmas, though). This last year's worth of computer usage has been the best of my life.

Worse, my wife still really likes using my old tangerine iBook clamshell. If she was slobbering after my 17 inch alubook, I could see myself inching towards wanting a G5 PB. (Maybe that tangerine is due for an accident?... maybe, after the actual release of the powerbook G5, Rev B).

;-)

beefcake
Dec 17, 2003, 11:48 AM
PowerBook rumors?

Here we go again :rolleyes:

RedMacMan
Dec 17, 2003, 11:53 AM
I feel sorry for all those poor bastards holding out for a PBG5... My PBG4 15" 1.25GHz+airport+superdrive+80GB@5400RPM+Panther is purrrrrrrrrrfect. :)

Sabenth
Dec 17, 2003, 11:55 AM
when there on the shelf or at the keynote ??? and i say when and if in a big way.. rumors are great but this is getting silly

DTphonehome
Dec 17, 2003, 11:57 AM
Would be really really nice to start med school in September with a shiny new PB G5. My 667Mhz DVI TiBook is doing just fine, but I have uncontrollable techno-lust.

It rolls off the tongue nicely, too. Try it...PB G5.

--DT

WK2003
Dec 17, 2003, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by RedMacMan
I feel sorry for all those poor bastards holding out for a PBG5... My PBG4 15" 1.25GHz+airport+superdrive+80GB@5400RPM+Panther is purrrrrrrrrrfect. :)

Amen to that....and frankly, I am getting a little tired of all these PB G5 rumors....it will come out when it comes out....can't be happier with my 1.25GHz Al-book either in the mean time....

ITR 81
Dec 17, 2003, 01:12 PM
I believe Apple will speed bump the entire PB lineup once again giving these #'s

17 = 1.42
15 = 1.33
12 = 1.25

Before the G5 PB is released. So if a speed bump happens in Jan. I expect the G5 PB 3-4 months from the day the speed bump PB's ship.

greenstork
Dec 17, 2003, 01:34 PM
Reality check, the properties that make a chip good for a Blade server ARE NOT the same properties that make a chip good for a laptop. Servers have the luxury of jet turnbines cooling them, while laptops do not have that luxury. So while the scarcity of space is the same, to some extent (but really not even close as servers have a great deal more room under the hood than a 1" thick laptop), the power requirements of high speed fans cannot compare. Laptops simply cannot have fans running constantly if you want any more than 2 hours of battery life. If this is the only rationale that this guy can come up with for a G5 in a laptop then it's just pure speculation and he's talking out of his ass. I could be wrong but I have serious doubts a G5 will ever make it into a PB or perhaps more accurately, I have doubts that it will make it into all of the PB's.

The Motorola chip is, for the most part, the same in desktops as it is in laptops and rest assured that if a G5 goes into a laptop that it will be largely different that it's desktop brother.

I've got my money on a specially designed mobile chip for Apple PB's, like maybe the rumored 750VX with SIMD.

iLilana
Dec 17, 2003, 01:38 PM
I would be happy with a 1Ghz iBook. So long as it has Bluetooth and FWE, I would be in heaven. Try hauling an eMac back and for to work. Not really designed for portability... obviously.

SpY2K
Dec 17, 2003, 01:41 PM
:rolleyes: hehehe... it is humurous that those that just do not care about this development are the proud owners of an under one year old G4 laptop.............. that is perfect for them, nothing wrong with that

...the rumors never stop, the development never stops, technology progresses and the day a new Apple product gets released that replaces the one you currently own, it gives you a strange combination of envy as well as feelings that "it doesn't really matter, mine works fine for me"... I have experiences this myself, as well as observed each and every friend of mine that owns an Apple computer show the sames signs immediatly following a keynote or product release.

Of course in my experience I got the "double-whammy" in that my Sawtooth G4 was replaced by the exact same system with 2 processors for the exact same price as what I had just paid less than a month before hand... of course I was new to Apple at that time, and have since learned the right timing for purchases to avoid this feeling... but it never goes away... ;)

daveL
Dec 17, 2003, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by ITR 81
I believe Apple will speed bump the entire PB lineup once again giving these #'s

17 = 1.42
15 = 1.33
12 = 1.25

Before the G5 PB is released. So if a speed bump happens in Jan. I expect the G5 PB 3-4 months from the day the speed bump PB's ship.
A speed bump like this isn't worth the expense of changing the spec sheets. There's no reason to bother. All you would get is a little more heat and a little less battery. In normal use, you'd never even notice an 80 MHz clock increase (15", 17"), and there's a reason the 12" is at 1 GHz: Heat. Just my take.

neilw
Dec 17, 2003, 03:00 PM
A speed bump like this isn't worth the expense of changing the spec sheets. There's no reason to bother. All you would get is a little more heat and a little less battery. In normal use, you'd never even notice an 80 MHz clock increase (15", 17"), and there's a reason the 12" is at 1 GHz: Heat. Just my take.

That is quite true, except that it does open up a little space for a minor speed bump for the iBooks.

If they added L3 cache (adding more heat and draining battery life more, of course) they *might* be able to add enough performance to make it worthwhile, but I doubt it.

Lets face it, any *real* speed bump for the PowerBook is now going to require a new chip, be it the G5 or the rumored 750VX. The Motorola G4's have gone as far as they can, unless Motorola pulls a surprise out of their hat (probability: infinitesimal.)

That is why I'm hoping for G5 PowerBooks sooner rather than later; the alternative seems to be another 9 month stretch (or longer!) for the PowerBooks without significant performance boost. Not good.

~Shard~
Dec 17, 2003, 03:14 PM
I originally predicted a summer 2004 date for the G5 PB release, so sounds like things might be right on track. Sooner would be better, but I don't think that's very likely due to all the factors involved.

parrothead
Dec 17, 2003, 03:23 PM
I, for one, would welcome a G5 powerbook with open arms, and open wallet.

sjk
Dec 17, 2003, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by WK2003
Amen to that....and frankly, I am getting a little tired of all these PB G5 rumors....it will come out when it comes out.Exactly, and no sooner.

k2k koos
Dec 17, 2003, 03:45 PM
Oh how i would love to wait to purchase a new PB, to get my hands on one of these babies, but then again, once they are released we start speculating about the rev B c or even D versions, whatever they might bring us.

The only plus this time is that if I wait, I'll have a PB with a processor design (and other system parts) that are going to be suported for the next few years (menaning not outdated anytime soon, in computer time that is...) while if i get a PB G4, I get a system with a processor that is going to die (for the pro's) fairly soon now...


Dillemmas, at the same time I really fancy a new PB, I love the look of the current models....

:)

jmerk
Dec 17, 2003, 04:04 PM
if history is any guide we will see an announcement this summer, with a "shipping by september" date which will mean that they will ship some to select lucky people and distributors on september 30. the machines will SLOOWWWWWWWWWLY trickly out to people so that they are shipping in volume towards the end of october, early november much to the consternation of all who ordered them.
this is coming from a guy who ordered a first gen TiBook when they came out and first gen 12" Powerbook when it came out.

sorry all but don't hold your breath. =^)

j

T'hain Esh Kelch
Dec 17, 2003, 05:24 PM
I know why Apple wont put a PB G5 on the street... Its because they know I'm selling my APPL stock to get enough money to buy it! They need my support!!! ;)

My first mac purchase ever. I have been getting my dads used mac's always... :( Oh well... Learned a lot though.

Steven1621
Dec 17, 2003, 10:28 PM
the utter truth of the matter is that the present pb's have enough power for probably 75% of users.

but i am sure just knowing you have a g5 in your portable is quite the ego boost. heck i know the pb g4 is good enough for me, but i reallllllllllly want a g5.

iRiKliAN
Dec 17, 2003, 10:39 PM
There can never be enough power!

Bring on a G5 PowerBook.

Mac-Xpert
Dec 18, 2003, 07:37 AM
I think 2004 will be the year of the laptop!:D

Wait where have I heard that before? ;)

Seriously, there still needs to be a lot of work done to get a G5 in a Powerbook. Even a 90nm G5 might still produce too much heat for a laptop above 1.6 Ghz. So if they start at 1.6 Ghz it will not be that much faster than the current 1.33 G4. But it would be nice even still.

law guy
Dec 22, 2003, 09:29 AM
There are the multitude of rumors on this site regarding the speedbumps to the power mac line, which appear to go hand-in-hand with the rumors that the 90nm process at IBM is up and running and that Apple is starting to get those chips in quantity.

I had always understood that the 90nm was what we were waiting for for a g5 PB - less power, less heat. I see Business week and folks here talking about summer 2004 or Sept. 2004, but if the 90nm is here and going to make its way into the high-speed desktops (the 2.4 GHz machines) at MWSF (there's an assumption), why can't we see an announcement at MWSF that there will be a - say 1.4 or 1.6 90 nm G5 powerbook shipping in Feb.?

Are there other reasons why this seems unlikely?

Thanks for feedback on this - I'm actually a little optomistic (for an announcement, not for a reasonable shipping date, ala the PB 17 examaple from last year).

Capt Underpants
Dec 22, 2003, 11:20 AM
To the best of my knowledge, I believe that the 90nm chips will be out in may or june. Those will be the ones pushing us over the 3 GHz mark. They aren't out in desktops yet, so they certainly wont be in laptops...

law guy
Dec 22, 2003, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by Capt Underpants
To the best of my knowledge, I believe that the 90nm chips will be out in may or june. Those will be the ones pushing us over the 3 GHz mark. They aren't out in desktops yet, so they certainly wont be in laptops...

Thanks - but here's the Macrumors rumor I'm referencing pointing to 90nm at MWSF rather than June:

"2.6GHz PowerMac G5s at MacWorld SF 2004?

Appleinsider claims that IBM is currently producing 90nm G5s in volume at speeds of 2GHz, 2.2GHz, 2.4GHz and 2.6GHz.

Apple is expected to announce these new G5 processors in speed bumped PowerMacs at the January according to one source at Appleinsider.

This would be consistent with previous rumors and whispers that the low-end PowerMac would become a single 2.0GHz G5."

So it looks like the speed bumps are expected to come from 90nm chips in a few weeks, rather than June. I suppose that gets me back to - why not a 90 nm lower-speed version in the powerbooks soon?

GroundLoop
Dec 22, 2003, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by law guy
So it looks like the speed bumps are expected to come from 90nm chips in a few weeks, rather than June. I suppose that gets me back to - why not a 90 nm lower-speed version in the powerbooks soon?

There is a lot more to a G5 powerbook than just the the cpu. there are the bridges and the controllers that also need to be re-engineered for use in a portable the size of a PB. Then there is the logic board that needs to be redesigned etc etc etc.

I think we have at least a good 6 months before the G5 powerbook has the possibility of being released.

Hickman

law guy
Dec 22, 2003, 02:41 PM
Originally posted by Brian Hickman
There is a lot more to a G5 powerbook than just the the cpu. there are the bridges and the controllers that also need to be re-engineered for use in a portable the size of a PB. Then there is the logic board that needs to be redesigned etc etc etc.

I think we have at least a good 6 months before the G5 powerbook has the possibility of being released.

Hickman

Of course a new PB is more than just the CPU , but couldn't Apple have been working on those elements over the last year? If the new chips are in mass production, certainly they were sampled to partners / key buyers a while ago? I recall there was a 1.2 GHz 970 that used 12 watts being discussed by IBM back in at least February last year.

Couldn't they have started with a design utilizing a 130 nm chip even before the 90 nm were sampled to vendors? That is - of course the 130 would be too hot, too power hungry at desktop speeds but Apple could start working on the architecture anticipating the lower power / cooler chip? There's a parallel in the PowerMac side - the 130 nm chip served the purpose for designing the internal components, which will now (if rumors are correct) be adapted to the 2.4 GHz 90 nm chip. My point there is that - even prior to getting the sample chips, Apple could have been working on the PB as the basic design wouldn't have been an unknown.

It may be unlikely still as you suggest, but it seems that Apple could have been working on the component parts needed for several months already.

DHagan4755
Dec 22, 2003, 03:31 PM
It is my opinion that Apple has been working on the PowerBook with a G5 for a lot longer than we knew that the IBM PPC 970 was going to be used in Power Macs. If Apple planned well ahead of time to work with IBM to make a 970 (G5), then it's fair to say that the engineering for the G5 notebooks wasn't too far behind given Jobs visionary expertise looking at the trends of notebook sales.

yamabushi
Dec 22, 2003, 04:04 PM
With the new version of the PPC 970 (90nm process with Powertune) I don't see any technical barrier to prevent Apple from releasing a 1.4GHz G5 17" PB in early 2004. Even with current cooling methods and heat from the rest of the chipset there should be no major problems with the 17". The 15" would be more of a challenge and the 12" would probably have to use new cooling technology in order to avoid noise from fans or blowers. Just my best guess.

daveL
Dec 22, 2003, 04:15 PM
http://www.forbes.com/2003/12/22/cx_ah_1222aapl.html?partner=yahoo&referrer=

Seems to be little doubt that IBM is delivering the 90 nm 970 in some quantity, now.

yamabushi
Dec 22, 2003, 05:49 PM
For its part, Apple has yet to make any real noise about a 64-bit operating system for the G5. "It's two years away at least," Glaskowsky says.
The last bit from that Forbes article is a little disturbing. I hope that OSX goes fully 64bit around January 2005, not 2006 or later as implied by Glaskowsky. Of course it is only one analyst's opinion. Regardless, better compilers are still more important than the 64bit transition.

law guy
Dec 22, 2003, 06:45 PM
The Forbes article is exciting - I did like this quote:

QUOTE:

"There are no technical hurdles to producing a Powerbook G5. It could easily appear in January," Glaskowsky says.
___

The note about the OS not going 64 bit for a good while did balance that excitement out, however.

daveL
Dec 22, 2003, 07:04 PM
Originally posted by yamabushi
The last bit from that Forbes article is a little disturbing. I hope that OSX goes fully 64bit around January 2005, not 2006 or later as implied by Glaskowsky. Of course it is only one analyst's opinion. Regardless, better compilers are still more important than the 64bit transition.
I wonder about this guy, a bit. He didn't seem to be aware that Apple *has* incorporated some 64-bit libraries with OS X that help the G5 accelerate math functions. Then there's the PhotoShop G5 plug-in that exploits 64-bit instructions. With the PPC, it doesn't have to be 32-bit OR 64-bit; you can have it boths ways.

gopher
Dec 22, 2003, 07:38 PM
Originally posted by jamdr
Well, March would be a lot better than summer, or during the WWDC at the end of June. As nice as the current line of PowerBooks is, they still aren't very fast. Certainly, their other features make up for that (in my opinion, which is why I bought one), but I'm really looking forward to a G5 PowerBook. I probably wouldn't buy a Rev. A, but once the technology is out there, I'm sure we will see it advance as nicely as the Desktop G5s.

Ever since last summer when the PowerMac G5 was released, I have been hoping that the PowerBook would be released during MWSF, but I guess that is becoming less and less likely. If they can ship one by March, though, I would be happy. I can't wait to see what it looks like...:D

I have a 1.33 Ghz Powerbook G4, and it is faster than I could have imagined. Remarkably its response times are sometimes as much as 50% faster than my iMac G4 800 that has 50% more RAM and a faster hard drive (iMac has 5200 RPM, while Powerbook has 4300 RPM). If it was any faster I'd think this Powerbook was a G5. I have no complaints.

GroundLoop
Dec 22, 2003, 09:16 PM
Originally posted by law guy
The Forbes article is exciting - I did like this quote:

QUOTE:

"There are no technical hurdles to producing a Powerbook G5. It could easily appear in January," Glaskowsky says.
___


There are also no technical hurdles for a two button mouse or a new PDA, but I am not expecting them in January. :) And honestly, what does this Forbes guy know about the industry? He is reading all of the same stuff that we are.

Hickman

law guy
Dec 22, 2003, 09:38 PM
Originally posted by Brian Hickman
There are also no technical hurdles for a two button mouse or a new PDA, but I am not expecting themin January. :) And honestly, what does this Forbes guy know about the industry? He is reading all of the same stuff that we are.

Hickman

But - wouldn't you agree that a G5 powerbook IS something Apple wants to do - as opposed to a two button mouse or a PDA?

Also - the forbes guy is just making a statement regarding technical feasibility - he seems qualified to make the statement given his expertise in the world of microprocessors. I'm not sure if he has to read anything different to get to his informed conclusion that a portable G5 is technically fesible in the near term. It's that feasibility COMBINED with a business goal that differentiates it from the PDA / mouse example.

His position is noted in the article, by the way:

"Analyst with Instat/MDR, San Jose, Calif. and editor-in-chief of the influential newsletter Microprocessor Report."

So - we've got the editor of Microprocessor Report stating that a G5 portable appears feasible to him and, we can guess that Apple has set a goal of a G5 portable as a rational businesss direction (as opposed to a PDA or a two-button mouse - to which we could add a LONG list of feasible items that we probably won't see at MWSF - a new Apple bath line to be sold at Big K along with Steve Jobs branded casual wear, for example).

lewellyn
Dec 22, 2003, 10:18 PM
Originally posted by law guy
a LONG list of feasible items that we probably won't see at MWSF - a new Apple bath line to be sold at Big K along with Steve Jobs branded casual wear, for example).

Staying away from K-Mart is a wise decision. Seems that most celebrities who work with them end up in hot water... Not what AAPL needs in this era of PB G5s... ;)

Mac-Xpert
Dec 23, 2003, 04:26 AM
Originally posted by daveL
I wonder about this guy, a bit. He didn't seem to be aware that Apple *has* incorporated some 64-bit libraries with OS X that help the G5 accelerate math functions. Then there's the PhotoShop G5 plug-in that exploits 64-bit instructions. With the PPC, it doesn't have to be 32-bit OR 64-bit; you can have it boths ways.

As far as I know the 64-bit libraries are only there for the support of more than 4 gb of memory in the G5 system. I don't think the Photoshop plug-in uses 64-bit instructions. Photoshop still can only use a maximum of 2 gb of memory. The plug-in optimizes instruction ordering for the 970, so that it's branch prediction unit works more efficient.

Falleron
Dec 23, 2003, 04:40 AM
Take a look at this article:

http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/main_news.cfm?NewsID=7562

(Thanks to Macword this).

Sounds interesting. They dont normally go in for rumors.

GroundLoop
Dec 23, 2003, 06:25 AM
Originally posted by law guy
But - wouldn't you agree that a G5 powerbook IS something Apple wants to do - as opposed to a two button mouse or a PDA?

Also - the forbes guy is just making a statement regarding technical feasibility - he seems qualified to make the statement given his expertise in the world of microprocessors. I'm not sure if he has to read anything different to get to his informed conclusion that a portable G5 is technically fesible in the near term. It's that feasibility COMBINED with a business goal that differentiates it from the PDA / mouse example.

His position is noted in the article, by the way:

"Analyst with Instat/MDR, San Jose, Calif. and editor-in-chief of the influential newsletter Microprocessor Report."

So - we've got the editor of Microprocessor Report stating that a G5 portable appears feasible to him and, we can guess that Apple has set a goal of a G5 portable as a rational businesss direction (as opposed to a PDA or a two-button mouse - to which we could add a LONG list of feasible items that we probably won't see at MWSF - a new Apple bath line to be sold at Big K along with Steve Jobs branded casual wear, for example).

The issue that I have with that argument is that it has been technically feasible to put the G5 in a laptop since it was introduced. So this microprocessor guy isn't exactly going out on a limb here. All you would have to do is change the form factor. What most people seem to forget is that Apple is not a huge company. (last I read 10,000 employees a lot of which are non-technical) They don't have infinite resources to design a new powerbooks around the G5 is a short amount of time. Especially with all of the other laptops being released. Also, I am sure that the fiasco with the newest 15" Al book threw off their schedule as well.

I just wish people would stop getting their hopes up for something that will not happen. We are already getting new Xserves, new iPods, and a bunch of software upgrades. I still believe that we are while away from the G5 PowerBook. And even if we did see one in March, I wouldn't be buying it anyway. I am definitely waiting for a Rev B on such a major upgrade.

edit: It seems that ThinkSecret is confirming most of what I have said in the above. And for those of you that follow that site, they are nearly 100% accurate.

Hickman

lewellyn
Dec 24, 2003, 01:02 AM
Keep in mind that "feasible" != "profitable"... It may take some time, but we'll eventually see these beasts. Be patient... :) I am... (Then again, I can't afford one at the moment anyway... *sigh*)

Oh, and it looks like that Macworld article is just trying to jump on the bandwagon of regurgitating Forbes's reporting/scouring-of-the-rumor-mills/whatever... :(

rtype
Dec 24, 2003, 10:26 AM
So what do you guys think we will see Powerbook related at MWSF?

I've been putting off buying a 15" 1.25 to Jan 6 only because of the possibility that there may be a revision... be it no change with price drops, larger hard drives, slightly faster processors or whatever. I do sincerely hope that they do a small revision at this time so that it may be the last one until summer and I get a little more mileage out of this one.

My current thought is that they'll try to get limited G5s out around September, which I'll pass on. Hopefully they'll be more available by the time they rev them (Jan-April 2005?). If so, I'll try to sell the model I buy Jan 6 around then and upgrade.

How far off do you guys think I am?

GroundLoop
Dec 24, 2003, 10:54 AM
I think that there is no chance of revisions to the powerbook for MWSF. Because of this belief, I think that you should either:

1) order on the 12/27 so you get free shipping, Keynote, and FCE discounts (then by the time your system is built and delivered you should still be alloweed to get a refund if there are prices cuts etc.) (there is a 10 day limit right?)

or

2) order after MWSF if the above software means nothing to you

Hickman

rtype
Dec 24, 2003, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by Brian Hickman
I think that there is no chance of revisions to the powerbook for MWSF. Because of this belief, I think that you should either:

1) order on the 12/27 so you get free shipping, Keynote, and FCE discounts (then by the time your system is built and delivered you should still be alloweed to get a refund if there are prices cuts etc.) (there is a 10 day limit right?)

or

2) order after MWSF if the above software means nothing to you

Hickman

Thanks. I'm actually not interested in that software but I am interested in the free shipping. Here is what's holding me back.

"A 10% open box fee will be assessed on any opened hardware or accessory. If you purchased your order using an Apple Instant Loan or an Apple Business Lease, you may be asked to provide a major credit card (Visa, MasterCard, American Express, or Discover) for Apple to assess the 10% open box restocking fee."

So if they introduce a completely new model (ie, same Powerbook with a 120g HD, it'd cost me 10% to upgrade.)

"Should Apple reduce its price on any shipped product within 10 calendar days of shipment, you may contact Apple Sales Support at 1-800-676-2775 to request a refund or credit of the difference between the price you were charged and the current selling price. To receive the refund or credit you must contact Apple within 14 business days of shipment."

I called them and asked specifically about this policy. It only goes into effect if they lower the price on the exact same sku. Even then, if the retail price lowers but the refurb. price does not, it still doesn't count.

So... yeah, I wait until Jan 6 and then if *nothing* changes hope there are refurbs still available and if not do the student price. And all of these options add tax to me in Texas. If you guys have better ideas, I'd love to hear it.

I haven't bought a Mac since my LC so I'm not accustomed to paying so close to retail no matter how good of a value it is--you know how that goes.

lewellyn
Dec 25, 2003, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by rtype
Thanks. I'm actually not interested in that software but I am interested in the free shipping. Here is what's holding me back.

"A 10% open box fee will be assessed on any opened hardware or accessory. If you purchased your order using an Apple Instant Loan or an Apple Business Lease, you may be asked to provide a major credit card (Visa, MasterCard, American Express, or Discover) for Apple to assess the 10% open box restocking fee."

So if they introduce a completely new model (ie, same Powerbook with a 120g HD, it'd cost me 10% to upgrade.)

Hmm... but if you ordered it Dec. 27, it may or may not even ship by Jan. 6. In which case, if there are upgrades at MWSF, I would just ship it back without opening it. Like hell I'd put up with an open box charge for something I didn't open.

Even better would be refusing delivery if it was due to arrive on the 8th, for example. Don't know how they'd deal with that one... ;) I'm sure they have some sort of procedure, probably want to re-read the fine print if you go that route...

And that same SKU thing sounds kinda suspicious... I, personally, haven't heard that before. I see a few possibilities: the person was clueless/a dork/etc., the policy changed, I (and everyone I've spoken to on this issue) has gotten lucky. I always lean toward clueless, faceless people on the other side of a phone...

Oh, well. You'll end up with a PowerBook soon one way or another. :)

Happy holidays!

visualanté
Dec 28, 2003, 02:52 PM
Is it just me or is apple always 1 step behind in video on their powerbooks .... they really need a better lcd with better color and higher resolution...i saw a 6month old dell next to 15 and 17 powerbook...no comparison in color accuracy dell was clearly best.....why? apple is mainly used by creative proffesionals yet their colors are washed out......and a 128mb vid card with the ability to upgrade would give them the best laptop...i luv everything else but this frustrates me as a digital artist..

heublein
Dec 28, 2003, 08:43 PM
I agree with your assertion that the properties that make blade chips desireable are not the same properties that make laptop chips desireable. However, I disagree with your assertion that the G5 will not make it into the entire PB line. My (admittedly feeble) understanding of the situation is that the current IBM PowerPC 970 chip that powers the G5 is fabricated on a 130 nanometer, silicon-on-insulator (SOI) process with copper interconnects. Both IBM and Intel are about to move to a 90 nanometer process (although I believe that Intel's process lacks SOI), which would provide a substantial reduction in the voltage required to power the G5 chip. Since voltage and heat production are exponentially (or perhaps, logarithmically - can't remember :-) related, then the 90 nm G5 chips should provide an very significant reduction in overall heat production that would not be necessary for a desktop processor with a large heatsink / fan combo. As such, we may see G5 PowerBooks in short order.

However, as I intimated earlier, my understanding of microprocessor fabrication technology is at an armchair level, so I may just be spouting nonsense here ;-)

But if I were a betting man, I would bet that Apple will release 90nm PB G5s within 6 months. But they won't be cheap... (of course they never are, but you get what you pay for, eh?)

Originally posted by greenstork
Reality check, the properties that make a chip good for a Blade server ARE NOT the same properties that make a chip good for a laptop. Servers have the luxury of jet turnbines cooling them, while laptops do not have that luxury. So while the scarcity of space is the same, to some extent (but really not even close as servers have a great deal more room under the hood than a 1" thick laptop), the power requirements of high speed fans cannot compare. Laptops simply cannot have fans running constantly if you want any more than 2 hours of battery life. If this is the only rationale that this guy can come up with for a G5 in a laptop then it's just pure speculation and he's talking out of his ass. I could be wrong but I have serious doubts a G5 will ever make it into a PB or perhaps more accurately, I have doubts that it will make it into all of the PB's.

The Motorola chip is, for the most part, the same in desktops as it is in laptops and rest assured that if a G5 goes into a laptop that it will be largely different that it's desktop brother.

I've got my money on a specially designed mobile chip for Apple PB's, like maybe the rumored 750VX with SIMD.

TMJ1974
Dec 29, 2003, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by rtype

So if they introduce a completely new model (ie, same Powerbook with a 120g HD, it'd cost me 10% to upgrade.)



To my knowledge, 80GB is the largest available for laptop drives. Since these are currently an option for PowerBooks, I wouldn't hold out based on that fact.

Tim

jade
Dec 29, 2003, 11:37 PM
Originally posted by lewellyn

And that same SKU thing sounds kinda suspicious... I, personally, haven't heard that before. I see a few possibilities: the person was clueless/a dork/etc., the policy changed, I (and everyone I've spoken to on this issue) has gotten lucky. I always lean toward clueless, faceless people on the other side of a phone...


Well that would mean if a model was different (meaning new processor or what not) it would have a new sku. So lets say apple releases rev b alpb....at a lower price and calls it a different model...m8955ll/b you are out of luck...because that one is not the same as yours.

CmdrLaForge
Dec 30, 2003, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by iGAV
PowerBook G5 is what I'm waiting for.... I just don't see a reason to spend the $ on a current PowerBook to replace my 1GHz TiBook.

I'm hoping for a WDC announcement and maybe July shipping, as that'll give me a saving up period.

As for the looks, I'd figure on it being pretty much the same as the current range as they've just been overhauled, I must admit, and I know I'm in the minority here, but I'd like to see and appearance of the G5's venting holes on it... love the G5 me.... :D

Disagree. When(ever) the G5 PB comes out it will be a new design. The G5 is the next generation of Apple computer. They will change the design to reflect this.

~Shard~
Dec 30, 2003, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by CmdrLaForge
Disagree. When(ever) the G5 PB comes out it will be a new design. The G5 is the next generation of Apple computer. They will change the design to reflect this.

I agree. Although the design change might be subtle, there is a lot of re-engineering that has to take place for the G5 PB, from cooling issues, to motherboard redesign, etc. etc., so since there has to be an internal re-design anyway, the exterior will receive a new look as well.

WK2003
Dec 30, 2003, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by ~Shard~
I agree. Although the design change might be subtle, there is a lot of re-engineering that has to take place for the G5 PB, from cooling issues, to motherboard redesign, etc. etc., so since there has to be an internal re-design anyway, the exterior will receive a new look as well.

I thought the current aluminum look is already in line with the powermac G5 look....assuming that the powermac G5 should be here for a while, i can't imagine how they can change the aluminum look of the current Powerbook line....

So bottom-line, when will the Powerbook G5 come out??? I am currently very happy with my 1.25GHz 15" AlPB but am very interested in upgrading to a G5 Rev B version when it does finally come out....

~Shard~
Dec 30, 2003, 01:05 PM
Originally posted by WK2003
I thought the current aluminum look is already in line with the powermac G5 look....assuming that the powermac G5 should be here for a while, i can't imagine how they can change the aluminum look of the current Powerbook line....

Fair enough - I just thought while they were redesigning the guts, the may do a couple subtle chnages ot the exterior as well. :cool:

Originally posted by WK2003

So bottom-line, when will the Powerbook G5 come out??? I am currently very happy with my 1.25GHz 15" AlPB but am very interested in upgrading to a G5 Rev B version when it does finally come out....

Not until summer is my prediction, along with the G5 iMacs. I think the G5 iMacs will be ready to go before the G5 PBs, just due to the cooling issues, but I don't think Apple will release a G5 iMac (consumer model) without having the G5 PB (pro machine) close on its heels.

Honestly though, the current high-end PBs are pretty f@#$ing powerful - although more power is always nice, the current line of PBs gives pretty much every user out there anything they could want in a laptop, as I'm sure you'll agree being an owner of one yourself. :)

thatwendigo
Dec 31, 2003, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by ~Shard~
Fair enough - I just thought while they were redesigning the guts, the may do a couple subtle chnages ot the exterior as well.

I want to see them work with Cooligy to balance the heat across the 'book, cut down the clock and the FSB to something manageable, and maybe cut the RAM back a step. I bet that would make the possibility something a little more manageable, since they're going to be cramming in things that just haven't been in one of those slim laptops before. I mean, compare the two systems and see how much more advanced the desktop is going to have to be. I don't see SATA laptop drives at newegg (www.newegg.com), and it would probably cut costs a little to just use the same PC2700 RAM that they've got in them now. After all, with a lower clock and slower drives, the RAM isn't going to need to be quite as fast. That doesn't mean Apple shouldn't crank it as high as they possibly can, without burning up the lap of whoever uses the machine, but I'd rather have a realistic Centrino-killer than some pie-in-the-sky ideal that comes out two years from now. :D

My guesses:
15"/17"
1.4/1.6ghz G5 90nm or 980 90nm (later this year)
700/800 FSB
512k L2 cache
256/512MB PC2700
60/80 UltraATA 5400 RPM
ATI Mobility Radeon 9600
Backlit Keyboard
Gigabit Ethernet
Firewire 400 & 800
Airport Extreme Built-in
DVI & S-Video
Digital Audio (I wish!)

I'm not even going to try to estimate prices, but I sure hope that they keep them at least where they are now. I really want a laptop for my next machine, but something tells me that I'm going to end up with a tower if I want the kind of power I crave after I graduate.

cyberrob
Jan 5, 2004, 06:20 AM
there are thousands of rumors about some hardware news at mw sf, but what about the future of mac os (x)?!? there's lot of time gone since panther released... and when steve kicks-off the powerbook g5 there's a need for a real 64 bit mac os, isn't it??!

aloha,
cyberrob /-)
(who's new to the forum)

yamabushi
Jan 6, 2004, 08:42 AM
What is to be included in the next version of OSX and when it will be released is probably going to be a major topic of discussion after some major hardware releases. My best guess now is that 10.4 might be released at MWSF 2005 and will be designed to take better advantage of the G5.

rtype
Jan 6, 2004, 02:17 PM
No Powerbook rev :(

I can't bring myself to pay 2300-2600+tax until they do a revision so now I'm still stuck waiting. Blah. I guess I'll be watching for more rumors for the next few weeks.

Dont Hurt Me
Jan 6, 2004, 02:41 PM
I dont blame you, if they can put 2 G5's in a xserve then they can get one in everyproduct they make. anyone who says they cant are mistaken. Boycot the G4! enough is enough. Ill laugh my butt off when sale's tumble on powerbooks and imacs.

MacNut
Jan 6, 2004, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by rtype
No Powerbook rev :(

I can't bring myself to pay 2300-2600+tax until they do a revision so now I'm still stuck waiting. Blah. I guess I'll be watching for more rumors for the next few weeks.

Did you truely expect new Powerbooks at MWSF and if you did I hope you didn't expect a G5 Powerbook, no new Powerbooks till atleast March and even then i don't expect a G5. If you want a Powerbook buy one it may be a long time before you get what you truly want.

rtype
Jan 6, 2004, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by MacNut
Did you truely expect new Powerbooks at MWSF and if you did I hope you didn't expect a G5 Powerbook, no new Powerbooks till atleast March and even then i don't expect a G5. If you want a Powerbook buy one it may be a long time before you get what you truly want.
I guess you weren't following this thread before today.

I am expecting G5 Powerbooks around September along with nearly everyone else. I was hoping today to see either a price drop and/or a part rev (maybe a small speed increase) on G4 Powerbooks.

MacNut
Jan 6, 2004, 03:21 PM
Originally posted by rtype
I guess you weren't following this thread before today.

I am expecting G5 Powerbooks around September along with nearly everyone else. I was hoping today to see either a price drop and/or a part rev (maybe a small speed increase) on G4 Powerbooks.

But knowing Apples track record on updates, If every six months they update that would put revisions in March. From what I can see they have no reason to update now if sales are still strong for what they currently have.

PBGPowerbook
Jan 6, 2004, 03:36 PM
They'll be black anodized aluminum casing with glowing red apple in the cover. the side edges will have the perforations of the G5 tower.

rtype
Jan 6, 2004, 04:11 PM
I would LOVE for them to be black anondized.

I can see from this:
http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/
that Powerbooks have been updated once every 6-8 months but there are a few reasons to think this time may be an exception:
1. abundance of rumors on the internet
2. backlit keyboard not featured in 12" and lower 15" model
3. expectation of G5 in September (it might be better to not do a new G4 rev so close to the G5)

*shrug* I dunno

~Shard~
Jan 6, 2004, 06:12 PM
I predicted G5 PowerBooks in the summer/early fall, and I still think this will be the case. Looks for G5 iMacs in spring, in a few months' time, and the PBs shortly thereafter. PM speed boosts will happen in the next few weeks - no doubt on a Tuesday. :cool:

oomega1
Jan 16, 2004, 01:55 AM
i've been waiting for the powerbook g5. when they do that ... i'd finally be switching from pc to mac for good. =D then i'd be hungry for all the little accessories that'd convert me into an apple user. heh.

BagelTycoon
Jan 16, 2004, 12:40 PM
Originally posted by ~Shard~
I predicted G5 PowerBooks in the summer/early fall, and I still think this will be the case.

If a dramatic increase in the refurbed PBook product in Apple's online store (http://store.apple.com/) is any indication that new G5 PBooks could be on their way, then I'm inclined to think that new ones could be out soon.

It seems that Apple often puts out a lot more refurbed product prior to introducing new product

Take a look at this morning's supply that was online:

CalfCanuck
Jan 16, 2004, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by BagelTycoon
If a dramatic increase in the refurbed PBook product in Apple's online store (http://store.apple.com/) is any indication that new G5 PBooks could be on their way, then I'm inclined to think that new ones could be out soon.

It seems that Apple often puts out a lot more refurbed product prior to introducing new product

Take a look at this morning's supply that was online:
And you don't think thatthis surge in supply of refurbished powerbooks has anything to do with the MASSIVE screw up of the released Powerbook last October, where all those first run units had to be shipped back and/or replaced?:rolleyes:

aswitcher
Jan 16, 2004, 01:39 PM
Originally posted by ~Shard~
I predicted G5 PowerBooks in the summer/early fall, and I still think this will be the case. Looks for G5 iMacs in spring, in a few months' time, and the PBs shortly thereafter. PM speed boosts will happen in the next few weeks - no doubt on a Tuesday. :cool:

Does anyone know if the figures are available for iMac versus eMac and iMac sales last and previous quarters? I am just wondering how bad iMacs are really doing and whether those figures would indicate even more of a need to go G5?

BagelTycoon
Jan 16, 2004, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by CalfCanuck
And you don't think thatthis surge in supply of refurbished powerbooks has anything to do with the MASSIVE screw up of the released Powerbook last October, where all those first run units had to be shipped back and/or replaced?:rolleyes:

Good point, but I'm still skeptical.

My hunch is based on what Apple did with 5 & 10 GB iPods right before upgrading to higher capacity 15's & 30's: they started dumping what appeared to be regular supplies of product onto their refurbed site.