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G5 PowerBooks Speculation
- Thread starter iGav
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It's tempting but....
Oh how i would love to wait to purchase a new PB, to get my hands on one of these babies, but then again, once they are released we start speculating about the rev B c or even D versions, whatever they might bring us.
The only plus this time is that if I wait, I'll have a PB with a processor design (and other system parts) that are going to be suported for the next few years (menaning not outdated anytime soon, in computer time that is...) while if i get a PB G4, I get a system with a processor that is going to die (for the pro's) fairly soon now...
Dillemmas, at the same time I really fancy a new PB, I love the look of the current models....
Oh how i would love to wait to purchase a new PB, to get my hands on one of these babies, but then again, once they are released we start speculating about the rev B c or even D versions, whatever they might bring us.
The only plus this time is that if I wait, I'll have a PB with a processor design (and other system parts) that are going to be suported for the next few years (menaning not outdated anytime soon, in computer time that is...) while if i get a PB G4, I get a system with a processor that is going to die (for the pro's) fairly soon now...
Dillemmas, at the same time I really fancy a new PB, I love the look of the current models....
G5 powerbook: September/October
if history is any guide we will see an announcement this summer, with a "shipping by september" date which will mean that they will ship some to select lucky people and distributors on september 30. the machines will SLOOWWWWWWWWWLY trickly out to people so that they are shipping in volume towards the end of october, early november much to the consternation of all who ordered them.
this is coming from a guy who ordered a first gen TiBook when they came out and first gen 12" Powerbook when it came out.
sorry all but don't hold your breath. =^)
j
if history is any guide we will see an announcement this summer, with a "shipping by september" date which will mean that they will ship some to select lucky people and distributors on september 30. the machines will SLOOWWWWWWWWWLY trickly out to people so that they are shipping in volume towards the end of october, early november much to the consternation of all who ordered them.
this is coming from a guy who ordered a first gen TiBook when they came out and first gen 12" Powerbook when it came out.
sorry all but don't hold your breath. =^)
j
I know why Apple wont put a PB G5 on the street... Its because they know I'm selling my APPL stock to get enough money to buy it! They need my support!!!
My first mac purchase ever. I have been getting my dads used mac's always... Oh well... Learned a lot though.
My first mac purchase ever. I have been getting my dads used mac's always...
Oh well... Learned a lot though.
the utter truth of the matter is that the present pb's have enough power for probably 75% of users.
but i am sure just knowing you have a g5 in your portable is quite the ego boost. heck i know the pb g4 is good enough for me, but i reallllllllllly want a g5.
but i am sure just knowing you have a g5 in your portable is quite the ego boost. heck i know the pb g4 is good enough for me, but i reallllllllllly want a g5.
I think 2004 will be the year of the laptop!
Wait where have I heard that before?
Seriously, there still needs to be a lot of work done to get a G5 in a Powerbook. Even a 90nm G5 might still produce too much heat for a laptop above 1.6 Ghz. So if they start at 1.6 Ghz it will not be that much faster than the current 1.33 G4. But it would be nice even still.
Wait where have I heard that before?
Seriously, there still needs to be a lot of work done to get a G5 in a Powerbook. Even a 90nm G5 might still produce too much heat for a laptop above 1.6 Ghz. So if they start at 1.6 Ghz it will not be that much faster than the current 1.33 G4. But it would be nice even still.
If 90nm chip will be in desktop this Jan - why not PB??
There are the multitude of rumors on this site regarding the speedbumps to the power mac line, which appear to go hand-in-hand with the rumors that the 90nm process at IBM is up and running and that Apple is starting to get those chips in quantity.
I had always understood that the 90nm was what we were waiting for for a g5 PB - less power, less heat. I see Business week and folks here talking about summer 2004 or Sept. 2004, but if the 90nm is here and going to make its way into the high-speed desktops (the 2.4 GHz machines) at MWSF (there's an assumption), why can't we see an announcement at MWSF that there will be a - say 1.4 or 1.6 90 nm G5 powerbook shipping in Feb.?
Are there other reasons why this seems unlikely?
Thanks for feedback on this - I'm actually a little optomistic (for an announcement, not for a reasonable shipping date, ala the PB 17 examaple from last year).
There are the multitude of rumors on this site regarding the speedbumps to the power mac line, which appear to go hand-in-hand with the rumors that the 90nm process at IBM is up and running and that Apple is starting to get those chips in quantity.
I had always understood that the 90nm was what we were waiting for for a g5 PB - less power, less heat. I see Business week and folks here talking about summer 2004 or Sept. 2004, but if the 90nm is here and going to make its way into the high-speed desktops (the 2.4 GHz machines) at MWSF (there's an assumption), why can't we see an announcement at MWSF that there will be a - say 1.4 or 1.6 90 nm G5 powerbook shipping in Feb.?
Are there other reasons why this seems unlikely?
Thanks for feedback on this - I'm actually a little optomistic (for an announcement, not for a reasonable shipping date, ala the PB 17 examaple from last year).
To the best of my knowledge, I believe that the 90nm chips will be out in may or june. Those will be the ones pushing us over the 3 GHz mark. They aren't out in desktops yet, so they certainly wont be in laptops...
Thanks - but here's the Macrumors rumor I'm referencing pointing to 90nm at MWSF rather than June:
"2.6GHz PowerMac G5s at MacWorld SF 2004?
Appleinsider claims that IBM is currently producing 90nm G5s in volume at speeds of 2GHz, 2.2GHz, 2.4GHz and 2.6GHz.
Apple is expected to announce these new G5 processors in speed bumped PowerMacs at the January according to one source at Appleinsider.
This would be consistent with previous rumors and whispers that the low-end PowerMac would become a single 2.0GHz G5."
So it looks like the speed bumps are expected to come from 90nm chips in a few weeks, rather than June. I suppose that gets me back to - why not a 90 nm lower-speed version in the powerbooks soon?
There is a lot more to a G5 powerbook than just the the cpu. there are the bridges and the controllers that also need to be re-engineered for use in a portable the size of a PB. Then there is the logic board that needs to be redesigned etc etc etc.
I think we have at least a good 6 months before the G5 powerbook has the possibility of being released.
Hickman
Of course a new PB is more than just the CPU , but couldn't Apple have been working on those elements over the last year? If the new chips are in mass production, certainly they were sampled to partners / key buyers a while ago? I recall there was a 1.2 GHz 970 that used 12 watts being discussed by IBM back in at least February last year.
Couldn't they have started with a design utilizing a 130 nm chip even before the 90 nm were sampled to vendors? That is - of course the 130 would be too hot, too power hungry at desktop speeds but Apple could start working on the architecture anticipating the lower power / cooler chip? There's a parallel in the PowerMac side - the 130 nm chip served the purpose for designing the internal components, which will now (if rumors are correct) be adapted to the 2.4 GHz 90 nm chip. My point there is that - even prior to getting the sample chips, Apple could have been working on the PB as the basic design wouldn't have been an unknown.
It may be unlikely still as you suggest, but it seems that Apple could have been working on the component parts needed for several months already.
It is my opinion that Apple has been working on the PowerBook with a G5 for a lot longer than we knew that the IBM PPC 970 was going to be used in Power Macs. If Apple planned well ahead of time to work with IBM to make a 970 (G5), then it's fair to say that the engineering for the G5 notebooks wasn't too far behind given Jobs visionary expertise looking at the trends of notebook sales.
With the new version of the PPC 970 (90nm process with Powertune) I don't see any technical barrier to prevent Apple from releasing a 1.4GHz G5 17" PB in early 2004. Even with current cooling methods and heat from the rest of the chipset there should be no major problems with the 17". The 15" would be more of a challenge and the 12" would probably have to use new cooling technology in order to avoid noise from fans or blowers. Just my best guess.
Anyone See This?
http://www.forbes.com/2003/12/22/cx_ah_1222aapl.html?partner=yahoo&referrer=
Seems to be little doubt that IBM is delivering the 90 nm 970 in some quantity, now.
http://www.forbes.com/2003/12/22/cx_ah_1222aapl.html?partner=yahoo&referrer=
Seems to be little doubt that IBM is delivering the 90 nm 970 in some quantity, now.
The last bit from that Forbes article is a little disturbing. I hope that OSX goes fully 64bit around January 2005, not 2006 or later as implied by Glaskowsky. Of course it is only one analyst's opinion. Regardless, better compilers are still more important than the 64bit transition.
forbes article
The Forbes article is exciting - I did like this quote:
QUOTE:
"There are no technical hurdles to producing a Powerbook G5. It could easily appear in January," Glaskowsky says.
___
The note about the OS not going 64 bit for a good while did balance that excitement out, however.
The Forbes article is exciting - I did like this quote:
QUOTE:
"There are no technical hurdles to producing a Powerbook G5. It could easily appear in January," Glaskowsky says.
___
The note about the OS not going 64 bit for a good while did balance that excitement out, however.
I wonder about this guy, a bit. He didn't seem to be aware that Apple *has* incorporated some 64-bit libraries with OS X that help the G5 accelerate math functions. Then there's the PhotoShop G5 plug-in that exploits 64-bit instructions. With the PPC, it doesn't have to be 32-bit OR 64-bit; you can have it boths ways.
Re: Not what I was hoping for, but good news if it's correct
I have a 1.33 Ghz Powerbook G4, and it is faster than I could have imagined. Remarkably its response times are sometimes as much as 50% faster than my iMac G4 800 that has 50% more RAM and a faster hard drive (iMac has 5200 RPM, while Powerbook has 4300 RPM). If it was any faster I'd think this Powerbook was a G5. I have no complaints.
Originally posted by jamdr
Well, March would be a lot better than summer, or during the WWDC at the end of June. As nice as the current line of PowerBooks is, they still aren't very fast. Certainly, their other features make up for that (in my opinion, which is why I bought one), but I'm really looking forward to a G5 PowerBook. I probably wouldn't buy a Rev. A, but once the technology is out there, I'm sure we will see it advance as nicely as the Desktop G5s.
Ever since last summer when the PowerMac G5 was released, I have been hoping that the PowerBook would be released during MWSF, but I guess that is becoming less and less likely. If they can ship one by March, though, I would be happy. I can't wait to see what it looks like...
I have a 1.33 Ghz Powerbook G4, and it is faster than I could have imagined. Remarkably its response times are sometimes as much as 50% faster than my iMac G4 800 that has 50% more RAM and a faster hard drive (iMac has 5200 RPM, while Powerbook has 4300 RPM). If it was any faster I'd think this Powerbook was a G5. I have no complaints.
Re: forbes article
There are also no technical hurdles for a two button mouse or a new PDA, but I am not expecting them in January. And honestly, what does this Forbes guy know about the industry? He is reading all of the same stuff that we are.
Hickman
There are also no technical hurdles for a two button mouse or a new PDA, but I am not expecting them in January.
And honestly, what does this Forbes guy know about the industry? He is reading all of the same stuff that we are.Hickman
Re: Re: forbes article
But - wouldn't you agree that a G5 powerbook IS something Apple wants to do - as opposed to a two button mouse or a PDA?
Also - the forbes guy is just making a statement regarding technical feasibility - he seems qualified to make the statement given his expertise in the world of microprocessors. I'm not sure if he has to read anything different to get to his informed conclusion that a portable G5 is technically fesible in the near term. It's that feasibility COMBINED with a business goal that differentiates it from the PDA / mouse example.
His position is noted in the article, by the way:
"Analyst with Instat/MDR, San Jose, Calif. and editor-in-chief of the influential newsletter Microprocessor Report."
So - we've got the editor of Microprocessor Report stating that a G5 portable appears feasible to him and, we can guess that Apple has set a goal of a G5 portable as a rational businesss direction (as opposed to a PDA or a two-button mouse - to which we could add a LONG list of feasible items that we probably won't see at MWSF - a new Apple bath line to be sold at Big K along with Steve Jobs branded casual wear, for example).
Originally posted by Brian Hickman
There are also no technical hurdles for a two button mouse or a new PDA, but I am not expecting themin January.
Hickman
But - wouldn't you agree that a G5 powerbook IS something Apple wants to do - as opposed to a two button mouse or a PDA?
Also - the forbes guy is just making a statement regarding technical feasibility - he seems qualified to make the statement given his expertise in the world of microprocessors. I'm not sure if he has to read anything different to get to his informed conclusion that a portable G5 is technically fesible in the near term. It's that feasibility COMBINED with a business goal that differentiates it from the PDA / mouse example.
His position is noted in the article, by the way:
"Analyst with Instat/MDR, San Jose, Calif. and editor-in-chief of the influential newsletter Microprocessor Report."
So - we've got the editor of Microprocessor Report stating that a G5 portable appears feasible to him and, we can guess that Apple has set a goal of a G5 portable as a rational businesss direction (as opposed to a PDA or a two-button mouse - to which we could add a LONG list of feasible items that we probably won't see at MWSF - a new Apple bath line to be sold at Big K along with Steve Jobs branded casual wear, for example).
As far as I know the 64-bit libraries are only there for the support of more than 4 gb of memory in the G5 system. I don't think the Photoshop plug-in uses 64-bit instructions. Photoshop still can only use a maximum of 2 gb of memory. The plug-in optimizes instruction ordering for the 970, so that it's branch prediction unit works more efficient.
Take a look at this article:
http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/main_news.cfm?NewsID=7562
(Thanks to Macword this).
Sounds interesting. They dont normally go in for rumors.
http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/main_news.cfm?NewsID=7562
(Thanks to Macword this).
Sounds interesting. They dont normally go in for rumors.
Re: Re: Re: forbes article
The issue that I have with that argument is that it has been technically feasible to put the G5 in a laptop since it was introduced. So this microprocessor guy isn't exactly going out on a limb here. All you would have to do is change the form factor. What most people seem to forget is that Apple is not a huge company. (last I read 10,000 employees a lot of which are non-technical) They don't have infinite resources to design a new powerbooks around the G5 is a short amount of time. Especially with all of the other laptops being released. Also, I am sure that the fiasco with the newest 15" Al book threw off their schedule as well.
I just wish people would stop getting their hopes up for something that will not happen. We are already getting new Xserves, new iPods, and a bunch of software upgrades. I still believe that we are while away from the G5 PowerBook. And even if we did see one in March, I wouldn't be buying it anyway. I am definitely waiting for a Rev B on such a major upgrade.
edit: It seems that ThinkSecret is confirming most of what I have said in the above. And for those of you that follow that site, they are nearly 100% accurate.
Hickman
The issue that I have with that argument is that it has been technically feasible to put the G5 in a laptop since it was introduced. So this microprocessor guy isn't exactly going out on a limb here. All you would have to do is change the form factor. What most people seem to forget is that Apple is not a huge company. (last I read 10,000 employees a lot of which are non-technical) They don't have infinite resources to design a new powerbooks around the G5 is a short amount of time. Especially with all of the other laptops being released. Also, I am sure that the fiasco with the newest 15" Al book threw off their schedule as well.
I just wish people would stop getting their hopes up for something that will not happen. We are already getting new Xserves, new iPods, and a bunch of software upgrades. I still believe that we are while away from the G5 PowerBook. And even if we did see one in March, I wouldn't be buying it anyway. I am definitely waiting for a Rev B on such a major upgrade.
edit: It seems that ThinkSecret is confirming most of what I have said in the above. And for those of you that follow that site, they are nearly 100% accurate.
Hickman