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MacRumors
Dec 23, 2003, 09:07 AM
ThinkSecret cites (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/mwsf04apple.html) "reliable sources" that MacWorld San Francisco will bring new low-end 'mini iPods' and a major update to Apple's iLife package.

According to the rumor site, the new "pocket-size" iPods will come in various capacities and colors (including stripes). Prices will reportedly start at a mere $100.

The "music centric" Keynote is also said to bring updates to Apple's various iApps. Updates are reportedly inline for iPhoto, iMovie (to 3.5), iDVD (to 4.0) and iTunes along with possible updates to Final Cut Express (to 2.0). eMagic related announcements are also possible, according to ThinkSecret.

Finally, major Xserve announcements are also predicted for the January expo, but ThinkSecret claims that there will be no new CPU announcements (either desktop or laptop) during the event -- contrary to circulating rumors (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/12/20031212125807.shtml) from Appleinsider.

Previous MacRumors sources (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/12/20031209153636.shtml) reported on iApp updates as well as the possible introduction of a new Application at the Expo. Meanwhile, mini iPod rumors (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/12/20031215023902.shtml) began a few weeks ago with subsequent corroboration (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/12/20031222151444.shtml).

VicMacs
Dec 23, 2003, 09:13 AM
i truly hope so!

SlowX
Dec 23, 2003, 09:14 AM
Hopefully there will at least be some fixes to the 15" PBs. I mean, i want one, but I DON'T want spots or a bad latch...

sushi
Dec 23, 2003, 09:20 AM
Makes sense for Apple to push a new iPod models with the upcoming Pepsi iTMS giveaway program about to start.

Looking forward to the new iPod models -- both mini and regular! :D

Sushi

iAdam
Dec 23, 2003, 09:21 AM
I would love the annoucment of mini/cheaper iPods, but i'm just afraid of the them looking cheesey with colors and stripes. I think the cell phones with switchable faceplats look cheep.

DGFan
Dec 23, 2003, 09:21 AM
I could understand it if they don't bump the powermacs at MWSF. Some people who were waiting for a speed bump will run out and buy one and Apple will have squeezed out a few more of the older systems before the new G5s arrive a few weeks later.

Pandora
Dec 23, 2003, 09:23 AM
And what about new Displays? I don't care about iPods and G5s...I just want NEW DISPLAYS.

VicMacs
Dec 23, 2003, 09:23 AM
i dont think they can go out and say "we made a fix in 15 inch pbs and now they dont have spots!" you can be sure that new pbs from apple dont become spotty.

as for the ipods, welcome the be! if they offer a 100 dollar 5gb version its gonna be H-U-G-E! i for one am getting one! and a grey one would be so cool! or black!

i dont think a new imac is in the production line, it would be too big too soon, gotta sell those g5s first people, you cant detour peoples attention to another thing than the g5s, so we wil get the new 20, 23, 25+ studio g5 displays to complete the set, now is a good time to WAIT on ebay to get a used 17-20 inch display hehe

xserves do well on g4s i believe, just a little longer on those... maybe till june..

apple is thinking on the music revolution they started, iPods are the hook and pc people are the fish, every kid is going to want a new ipod, and for 100 dollars theyre gonna get their way...

and what a good way it is

latergator116
Dec 23, 2003, 09:24 AM
I want my 20th Anniversary Mac.

Codemonkey
Dec 23, 2003, 09:28 AM
To be honest, I'm really looking forward to either a) winning the lottery or b) 'low-end' iPods.

$454 CDN for the 10 GIG iPod is highway robbery. That's something I won't be able to afford anytime soon.

Unfortunately, imho the likelihood of 'low-end' iPods is about the same as me winning the lottery, so I won't hold my breath.

kuyu
Dec 23, 2003, 09:31 AM
2 gig's for $100! I'm in.

James.Paul
Dec 23, 2003, 09:33 AM
Remember the start of 2003. Every Tuesday something good was happening. Not everything has to be released at Macworld Expo. Speed bumping Power Macs, while great news, is not as good as releasing something new. Power macs could wait till the week after or so. When you look at most Apple products, they are due for an update if you go on the basis of a major upgrade every 12 months ish.

dongmin
Dec 23, 2003, 09:34 AM
Originally posted by Macrumors
Finally, major Xserve announcements are also predicted for the January expo, but ThinkSecret claims that there will be no new CPU announcements (either desktop or laptop) during the event -- contrary to circulating rumors (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/12/20031212125807.shtml) from Appleinsider. A little disappointing but not surprising. Steve likes to keep the MWSF consumer focussed. I'd expect the Power Mac announcements sometime later in January. Never fear.

~Shard~
Dec 23, 2003, 09:38 AM
Originally posted by James.Paul
Remember the start of 2003. Every Tuesday something good was happening. Not everything has to be released at Macworld Expo. Speed bumping Power Macs, while great news, is not as good as releasing something new. Power macs could wait till the week after or so. When you look at most Apple products, they are due for an update if you go on the basis of a major upgrade every 12 months ish.

I was just about to comment on this myself. I remember last year and how it seemed like every Tuesday, something new and amazing was announced! So, perhaps MWSF will solely be focused on software and music (the mini-iPods), and the hardware updates that are due, such as PM speed bumps, G5 xServes, and LCDs, will come out the following weeks of January into February. If there is an announcement regarding the xServes at MWSF, perhaps it will be just that - an announcement that "they're coming!", and thena couple weeks later they will be released, shipping immediately.

Only time will tell! I'll be watching that QuickTime feed like a hawk, that's for sure!

zim
Dec 23, 2003, 09:41 AM
Seems to me that if apple was going to release smaller colorful iPods, then it would have been smarter to have marketed them for the holidays, oh well. I have my 20GB iPod and love it.

Thank again, lots of people get money for the holidays... so if this is true then they have something to blow it on :D

KLFloyd
Dec 23, 2003, 09:44 AM
Low end iPods are a great thing. I'm not in the market to upgrade anytime soon since I just bought a refurb original 10GB model about 6 months ago but I think a $99 iPod would fly off the shelf. This would do great things to help Apple's market share in the digital music market. Saturate the market with iPods. I might even be talked into buying one for my kid brother as a joint graduation/18th birthday gift.

As far as software updates, the only real update I'd like to see is the ability for iDVD to support 3rd party external burners. I don't know if that's going to happen, but I'd gladly pay the money for the software if it had this ability. It's the only thing holding me back from buying an external burner.

Freg3000
Dec 23, 2003, 09:50 AM
This reminds me so much of last year. It seemed that there was a lock for iMac and eMac updates at MWSF, just as many were expecting Power Mac updates this year....and then ThinkSecret comes out and says no.

Apple knows what it is doing with the mini-iPods. Faceplates (assuming that is how they do the colors and strips) can be a powerful force driving sales, as teenagers and young adults could personalize their own iPod to make it more unique.

2 weeks.....

neilw
Dec 23, 2003, 09:51 AM
This sounds plausible to me. The feeling I get is that the 90 nm G5's will be available sometime in the Feb-March timeframe, so it would make sense to hold the announcement until they are closer to being available, so as not to hurt the current very healthy PowerMac sales.

Other CPU upgrades may be dependent on those chips as well, so they could just hold off everything until then.

The iMac could use a shot in the arm, to be sure, but having just brought out the 20" they may try to hold out until the new stuff is really ready. We'll see!

sushi
Dec 23, 2003, 09:52 AM
Originally posted by latergator116
I want my 20th Anniversary Mac.

Already got an Apple one...a TAM! :D :D :D :D :D

Looking forward to the Mac one! But don't expect it until summer. Just guessing BTW.

Sushi

ccuilla
Dec 23, 2003, 09:53 AM
I'm a little nervous about the rumor of stripes. Colors? Okay. Stripes? Not so sure.

I also hope that white remains in the lineup.

Finally, I hope they don't lobotomize the low end too much.

Pricing is surprising. I would think $149 and $199 for 2/4G would have been a very winnable price point.

We shall all see soon I guess.

ipiloot
Dec 23, 2003, 09:57 AM
If they don't introduce new processors at Macworld, the stock price will possibly head down. Because new processors are highly anticipated.
Besides, it's down already. If that happens, I'll buy for all my money. Last chance like that was after the big slump of 2000/2001, when the price eventually hit 14.

Le Big Mac
Dec 23, 2003, 10:11 AM
so, how much for the iLife updates? Free? Free with Panther upgrade? $49 for the batch? (iDVD excepted).

~Shard~
Dec 23, 2003, 10:13 AM
Originally posted by Le Big Mac
so, how much for the iLife updates? Free? Free with Panther upgrade? $49 for the batch? (iDVD excepted).

iLife updates have always been free, so I see no reason why these upgrades would be any different.

pgwalsh
Dec 23, 2003, 10:14 AM
Originally posted by James.Paul
Remember the start of 2003. Every Tuesday something good was happening. Not everything has to be released at Macworld Expo. Speed bumping Power Macs, while great news, is not as good as releasing something new. Power macs could wait till the week after or so. When you look at most Apple products, they are due for an update if you go on the basis of a major upgrade every 12 months ish. Right. I can wait... I'll be in the Caribbean shortly after so no need to buy a PM immediately.:cool:

rt_brained
Dec 23, 2003, 10:20 AM
Originally posted by ipiloot
If they don't introduce new processors at Macworld, the stock price will possibly head down. Because new processors are highly anticipated.

Anticipated by whom? They already seem to have adopted a virtual zero launch policy for MWSF.

If they make an upgrade announcement, great. If they don't, then expect something within a month or two.

And as soon as that becomes a regular thing, expect them to change it again.

pgwalsh
Dec 23, 2003, 10:20 AM
Originally posted by zim
Seems to me that if apple was going to release smaller colorful iPods, then it would have been smarter to have marketed them for the holidays, oh well. Totally agree. MWSF should be before the eoy and be an outlook for the following year. Announce new products a month before the holidays.. Never understood why they do that.....

Apple - "We'll announce and release all are great new products after the biggest purchasing time of the year." Steve (aka Mr. Burns) - "We'll make them lust for the new products long enough to make them mad. Excellent."

Grimace
Dec 23, 2003, 10:23 AM
If anything, we may see a small price drop with the PowerMac and Powerbook lines - or even a free...something. Computer prices keep going down - Apple tries to slow the process, but it does have to yield at a certain point.

Le Big Mac
Dec 23, 2003, 10:27 AM
Originally posted by pgwalsh
Totally agree. MWSF should be before the eoy and be an outlook for the following year. Announce new products a month before the holidays.. Never understood why they do that.....



It is curious. BUt you'd need to have MW in October, or early Nov., to get products out in time. Having in Dec. would get lost in teh holiday rush.

But, yeah, it's odd having it ]right after Christmas, so people see the new stuff barely after opening the packages on teh old stuff.

Of course, Apple probably figures that holiday buyers aren't looking to buy the absolute newest product.

Of course, while this may work for computers, a low-priced iPod coming out after Christmas is just plain stupid. It should have been announced in November and put on sale the weekend before Thanksgiving. They would have flown out of stores.

I guess now at least they can fly out of stores just in time to get filled up with songs through the pepsi promotion.

displaced
Dec 23, 2003, 10:28 AM
Originally posted by Le Big Mac
so, how much for the iLife updates? Free? Free with Panther upgrade? $49 for the batch? (iDVD excepted).

All the iLife apps (except iDVD) have been free downloads for any OS X user. I don't expect this to change any time soon. :)

[edit: oops - beaten to it... really should refresh before I post ;)]

iChan
Dec 23, 2003, 10:30 AM
I sincerely hope that iLife gets updated... as the the entire 'Digital Hub' campaign needs a bit of a facelift as every computer company and their dog is going for this digital hub idea. but only apple can pull it off with such aplomb.

and iPhoto needs some speed enhancements.

Lanbrown
Dec 23, 2003, 10:33 AM
Originally posted by neilw
The iMac could use a shot in the arm, to be sure, but having just brought out the 20" they may try to hold out until the new stuff is really ready. We'll see!

But the 20" is nothing more then a different screen. They have already made a profit on the 20".

displaced
Dec 23, 2003, 10:33 AM
Originally posted by Le Big Mac

Of course, while this may work for computers, a low-priced iPod coming out after Christmas is just plain stupid.

... but at ~$100, they're a prime target for people to buy with money they received for Christmas.

In fact, at $100 (~£60), that's heading into impulse-buy territory for some people.

SiliconAddict
Dec 23, 2003, 10:34 AM
$100 iPods?!? Woah. Very nice. :cool:

pgwalsh
Dec 23, 2003, 10:35 AM
Originally posted by displaced
All the iLife apps (except iDVD) have been free downloads for any OS X user. I don't expect this to change any time soon. Not so sure. If they intoduce more iApps and they implement the buying option in software update, I think we may see purchasing options for iDVD and possibly the new iApp.

snahabed
Dec 23, 2003, 10:39 AM
Apple isn't stupid.

the iPod is in big demand, even with its high price. the profit margins are off the charts. Apple wants people buying the pricey iPods for Christmas. And they are.

If they come out with cheap quality iPods for 100-200, the profit margins would have to be drastically reduced... They might, say, have to sell 10 cheap iPods for the profit of one high-end iPod.

So by doing this, they maximize profilts... then they will have cheaper units to push for the Pepsi/Superbowl time.

suzerain
Dec 23, 2003, 10:42 AM
Originally posted by rt_brained
Anticipated by whom? They already seem to have adopted a virtual zero launch policy for MWSF.

Hmmm...at the last Macworld Expo SF, they launched two groundbreaking new models of PowerBook that were completely unexpected. I think that was kind of a big product launch.

And...you know...the Macworld Expo SF before that (2002) they released the flat panel iMac. Also, kind of a 'big' product launch.

The year before that (2001), Apple introduced the Titanium PowerBook and speed-bumped G4 towers, which was also a really big product launch.

So, I don't understand where in the world people get the idea Apple doesn't launch products at Macworld SF. It seems like it is the opposite: Apple always announces new hardware at Macworld SF.

Still, it's possible this year could be the exception.

Someone else commented that this was sounding very much like last year, where everyone expected eMac/iMac updates, and they didn't come.

So the question becomes: what will be the major surprise hardware announcement? An XServe G5? I think that's expected, and wouldn't surprise anyone...so going by recent history, there will be something else.

arn
Dec 23, 2003, 10:43 AM
iPods are sold out this xmas... and Apple expected this.

They apparently sold as many ipods as they could make.

arn

MarksEvilTwin
Dec 23, 2003, 10:44 AM
Removed

suzerain
Dec 23, 2003, 10:47 AM
---
[ignore]

pgwalsh
Dec 23, 2003, 10:47 AM
Originally posted by snahabed
Apple isn't stupid.

the iPod is in big demand, even with its high price. the profit margins are off the charts. Apple wants people buying the pricey iPods for Christmas. And they are.

If they come out with cheap quality iPods for 100-200, the profit margins would have to be drastically reduced... They might, say, have to sell 10 cheap iPods for the profit of one high-end iPod.

So by doing this, they maximize profilts... then they will have cheaper units to push for the Pepsi/Superbowl time. That's short-sighted if that's what they're really doing. People that can afford it, will buy it. People that can't will buy something else. If you can afford the 40GB iPod you're going to buy it.. You're not going to change your mind for a $100 pink iPod that is 5GB.

I think Apple should get as many people on board as possible with rivals ramping up.. Especially with MS in the mix.. ugh.

~Shard~
Dec 23, 2003, 10:49 AM
Originally posted by ipiloot
If they don't introduce new processors at Macworld, the stock price will possibly head down. Because new processors are highly anticipated.
Besides, it's down already. If that happens, I'll buy for all my money. Last chance like that was after the big slump of 2000/2001, when the price eventually hit 14.

Highly anticipated? Why? By whom? The Rumor community? I'm sure all of Wall Street is hanging on MacRumors' every word on whether to buy or sell, and not on Apple press releases, earnings reports, etc. :rolleyes:

Plus, your subject line says to short Apple, yet you say if this happens, you'll "buy for all my money" - are you buying or short selling?

HenMaster6000
Dec 23, 2003, 11:04 AM
Apple's Idea, in selling only old iPods for christmas was good in two ways. First, they make much more money selling you a 40g iPod, and second if they are planning to introduce new mini-pods they need to sell all their current inventory. I think that the mini-pods will sell many times more than the current iPods, which is what apple wants. But at the same time, less people will now buy the old ones, in favor of the new ones, and ultimately the demand for the old/larger ipods will fall, resulting in apple having a lot of 40-gigs lying around. They figure that if they can get them out the door now, when people want them, they'll be in good shape for MWSF.

jadam
Dec 23, 2003, 11:14 AM
Wow, if they release mini Ipods, im in!

moosecat
Dec 23, 2003, 11:23 AM
The $99 price point is magical -- look at what Palm did when it released the $99 Zire. On a feature-per-dollar basis, the Zire was a miserable buy. But the psychology of a two-digit price is very powerful.

Price the mini-iPod at $99, package it in blister packs, sell it at broad-market retailers, and, as Emeril would say, BAM!

Macmaniac
Dec 23, 2003, 11:27 AM
A Smaller form factor iPod may only have a 2 line screen, but still have the normal iPod controls, these may use flash memory and if they were $100 I would buy one so fast!

tny
Dec 23, 2003, 11:31 AM
MacOSRumors is claiming that there will be another "iPod" -

There may be three iPods: a full-size desktop firewire HD device that includes iPod functionality but offers larger, better-performing hard disks and will probably support Firewire 800, a low-cost version of the existing 1.8-inch iPod that will initially begin at $199 and later drop as low as $129, and a "Mini-iPod" with new 1-inch drives by Toshiba at their core, in sizes of 2GB, 4GB, and 10GB that will be remarkably small, light, and thin.

I wonder if the big iPod (assuming the rumor has any value) will be some kind of DVR device?

Arn, how is MacOSRumors record on rumors?

Photorun
Dec 23, 2003, 11:33 AM
Thinksecret is usually pretty right... usually. I would be disappointed if they DIDN'T announce faster G5s though, even it meant "coming in a couple weeks" (though no few months like at WWDC).

machinehien
Dec 23, 2003, 11:34 AM
I don't understand why people are getting so pissed for.

If apple announces the new iPods in Jan then we won't actually see it till Feb or Mar. That being the case then there was no way they could have launched it in time for Christmas which would have been September or October. Plus the component costs would have been much more expensive if they tried to rush it since all the consumer electronics in demand this christmas eats up a lot of the supply chain. Most of the must have items this christmas are relatively dated technology.

Christmas is a critical time for a company, sure it's nice to have a shiny new gadget launch in time but if the quality or attention to detail isn't there then you failed to deliver for your consumers. Introducing it in the spring gives Apple 9 months to streamline the production and update and revise the product a little, also it lets word of mouth gain more and more momentum, that's what you need ultimately for a killer product.

Trust me, any time Apple rushes a product to market they get hosed very very badly (G4 Cube, Newton, Digital Camera) best wait till the product is good and ready. There's always next Christmas, I doubt anyone will be able to leapfrog Apple on this front. The mini iPod will be cashing in on its bigger siblings success and borrowing a lot of its cachet and credibility, not neccesarily introducing revolutionary new technology to the market.

moosecat
Dec 23, 2003, 11:36 AM
Arn, how is MacOSRumors record on rumors? [/B]

[Tee hee hee.] Not good.

natey
Dec 23, 2003, 11:39 AM
No hardware announcements? Think Secret has got to be kidding.

I'm still waiting for the PowerBook updates before I get my 15". The iBooks are breathing down the PowerBooks' neck. Frankly, I don't want my PowerBook to share the same processor with an iBook. After all I'm going to pay a lot for it.

~Shard~
Dec 23, 2003, 11:45 AM
Originally posted by natey
No hardware announcements? Think Secret has got to be kidding.


Once again, remember what happened last year - after MWSF, the following weeks of January and February saw quite a few huge announcements and releases every Tuesday. Not everything Apple has ready to go needs to be announced at MWSF.

JoeRadar
Dec 23, 2003, 11:45 AM
Originally posted by Macrumors
no new CPU announcements (either desktop or laptop) during the event
I am surprised at how little reaction there has been to this line.

When I purchased by dual 1 Gig two years ago, it was announced shortly (within about 2 weeks) after MWSF, so it is not unheard of for Apple to prepare a new PowerMac line but not announce it at MWSF.

My guess: Apple will announce the new PowerMac line as part of the 20th anniversary of the Mac's announcement. Anyone know if Apple will have any events for that day?

drewm
Dec 23, 2003, 11:46 AM
Originally posted by Pandora
And what about new Displays? I don't care about iPods and G5s...I just want NEW DISPLAYS.

I'm dying for more screen!!

Computer_Phreak
Dec 23, 2003, 11:48 AM
Originally posted by tny
MacOSRumors is claiming that there will be another "iPod" -



I wonder if the big iPod (assuming the rumor has any value) will be some kind of DVR device?

Arn, how is MacOSRumors record on rumors?

Honestly, just ignore MacOSRumors

Dont Hurt Me
Dec 23, 2003, 11:51 AM
I would doubt any rumors of no cpu upgrades, we know faster G5's are coming and we know what is killing imac sales the slow G4 and a lousey video chip and a monitor you cant keep. I doubt this rumor very much except the ipod thing. Smoke and mirrors to hide the fact that all new imacs, emacs and a cube!:D are coming!

visor
Dec 23, 2003, 11:53 AM
good grief.
I think the ipod is the most overrated gadget in the world.

OK, so I have a 15gig ipod, where does it get me? when I'm underway I can't really navigate the music, it' way too much and crowded. so great, I have a mobile HD - but it's not all that mobile, is it? I mean - without the propiatary firewirecable, It's quite useless as HD, and who would have one of these cables laying around? Noone. most people have a real FW calbe, but certainly noone has an iPod cable, unless he's got a 3g iPod.
what a blizz.
OK, now mini iPods - they wouldn't even keep half of my music, so i'd have to keep moving music about. tataaaa, need another cable for that, since the first cable goes as power cable to the dock in my stereo.
Talking about stereo. it looks real good on top of it. to bad you cant remote controll the song picking. all you could do fastforward and reverse on the cable, or on one of the 3rd party Rc's
Not all to great is it? Makes more sense to put an old iBook in place and RC it via my mobile phone.

Damn, they should better move on to a headless iMac for a change. Make something you can work with, rather than just play with.

ajkst1
Dec 23, 2003, 11:55 AM
I'm in for at least 3-5 mini iPods. Valentine's day...girlfriend, March...brother, April...Dad, May...me (already have a 10 GB), June....sister. Everybody gets one! Personally the 2 GB would be great for most people. I have a 10 GB and I've only used 2-3 GB at the most. That's still 400-500 songs, more than most people would listen to at any given time. I have over 2,000 songs on my computer but I really only listen to about 300-400 of them. A 2 GB would be perfect for most people who have constantly changing music tastes, the 4 GB would be better for people who want change but also want to keep the same music on their iPod. Pricing sounds about right, $100 for the 2 GB, $199 (possibly) for the 4 GB, $300 for the 10GB, $400 for the 20 GB, $500 for the 40 GB. It makes the 10-40 GB a better deal but the 2 and 4 GBs would sell better as impulse buys. Apple would dominate the MP3 player market, no one would stand a chance. Ah, the wonders of competition in a free market....

suzerain
Dec 23, 2003, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by ~Shard~
Once again, remember what happened last year - after MWSF, the following weeks of January and February saw quite a few huge announcements and releases every Tuesday. Not everything Apple has ready to go needs to be announced at MWSF.

Last year, at Macworld SF, Apple announced the PowerBook 12" and 17". I don't see why everyone is forgetting this.

And, ThinkSecret was wrong in its Macworld SF 2003 prediction. In fact, last year, ThinkSecret said:

"Laptops and Power Macs will also not get a makeover, sources confirm. Most speculation was that iBooks and PowerBooks would not see upgrades, as they were just upgraded this past November. However, Apple is expected to update the Power Mac line, like the iMacs, in late January or early February."

You can read this here (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/mwsf03cpus.html).

I see no reason not to be hopeful about new hardware, given the track record from the last three years.

Macmaniac
Dec 23, 2003, 11:58 AM
Mini iPods would make great corporate gifts if they were cheap enough. Happy Holidays and here is something you can really enjoy.

crees!
Dec 23, 2003, 11:59 AM
Originally posted by arn
iPods are sold out this xmas... and Apple expected this.

They apparently sold as many ipods as they could make.

arn

Exactly.. iTunes Gift Certificates are #1 and the iPod is #2 on the Apple Store. Just think about it if this faceplate for the iPod rumor is true. You all know how kids go crazy over faceplates when it comes to customizing their cellphones. Yes, this a stray from the conservative line but it is exactly what is needed to bring more attention to the product.

\m/

machinehien
Dec 23, 2003, 12:00 PM
http://www.gizmodo.com/archives/011384.php

aldo
Dec 23, 2003, 12:08 PM
Wow, this is a great time to be an Apple addict. I just joined the scene 6 months ago, and everything is starting to really hot up. I can't remember when there was so much interest in apple - OSX, iPods, G5 and Powerbook (regarded as probably the best notebook even in the PC world :P).

I think Jobs will want to keep the iPod going. However, he knows from past experience that the current interest levels aren't gonna hold much longer - everyone who wants one has one, and Apple needs to keep selling.

I think price cuts right across the iPod range will be announced, and then hopefully the new 2gb and 4gb iPods.
The idea will be that you go into the store for a 4gb one, and then end up buying a 10gb one because you can nearly triple your capacity for 50% of the price, or something. I will be buying an iPod for around £100 (~$180 if you include VAT sales tax) with my leftover xmas cash and then hopefully they will announce a range of iTMS international expansions...

I think that Apple will therefore just keep the form factor exactly the same, and also the software the same. They might however stop it being used as a mobile HD and instead 'lock' it to music only.

Also, if Apple introduce a new product, a headless iMac would be perfect. Seriously, it would be the best thing Apple has ever done. Aim for an eMac style price point for it without the monitor, and then make sure that most people walk out the store with a nice profit making LCD monitor from Apple.

The only problem with this bloody keynote is that I'm bored completely with christmas now! I think Christmas has been rearranged for most people on this board.

Ibjr
Dec 23, 2003, 12:14 PM
Originally posted by Photorun
Thinksecret is usually pretty right... usually. I would be disappointed if they DIDN'T announce faster G5s though, even it meant "coming in a couple weeks" (though no few months like at WWDC).

HEhehehahahahahaha!

Thinksecert, usually, and right in the same breath? Ya right.

CmdrLaForge
Dec 23, 2003, 12:14 PM
Originally posted by ipiloot
If they don't introduce new processors at Macworld, the stock price will possibly head down. Because new processors are highly anticipated.
Besides, it's down already. If that happens, I'll buy for all my money. Last chance like that was after the big slump of 2000/2001, when the price eventually hit 14.

Well - I don't see any influence on the stocks. But on the other hand if 19,5 breaks next support is 18,5. So we will see.

SeaFox
Dec 23, 2003, 12:17 PM
How can there not be speed-bumped G5's at MWSF? Steve said "3ghz by next [fall]". If they don't bump them up now they'll have to squeeze in either one big update or two less than six months apart.

Mini-iPods. Cool idea. The opening price is low enogh to make me consider one instaed of getting my Minidisc player repaired, except it still can't record! But more important, given the measley battery power of a full size iPod, how long do you think the playtime would be on a Mini-iPod (with porportionally sized mini-battery)? 4 hrs? :rolleyes:

New iLife App: Really curious about this one. What's left to do? Maybe a telephony/answering machine app. Perhaps the recently trademarked iWrite? With Appleworks (eventually) going pro, there's still all those people who just need a simple Word Processor. We don't all do spreadsheets and presentations. But writing letters is much more universal, and TextEdit is made to be a text editor.

ccuilla
Dec 23, 2003, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by pgwalsh
People that can afford it, will buy it. People that can't will buy something else.

And maybe return them after the holidays to buy the new Apple iPod Jr.

Ibjr
Dec 23, 2003, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by visor
good grief.
I think the ipod is the most overrated gadget in the world...

OK, now mini iPods - they wouldn't even keep half of my music, so i'd have to keep moving music about. tataaaa, need another cable for that, since the first cable goes as power cable to the dock in my stereo.

Damn, they should better move on to a headless iMac for a change. Make something you can work with, rather than just play with.

Wow. Thank god you don't work for apple, the Ipod may be overrated but it is selling well with its large profit margin Your personal rant is irrelevant.

Headless imac? Brilliant, let them return to an area of the market they are already losing! The Imac isn’t selling as well as it should, they know this, and they can not keep upping screen size and selling it headless insipidly removes the whole “apple experience”

mangoman
Dec 23, 2003, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by iAdam
I would love the annoucment of mini/cheaper iPods, but i'm just afraid of the them looking cheesey with colors and stripes. I think the cell phones with switchable faceplats look cheep.

O, Ye of little faith. It's Apple we're talkin' about here. Weeeeeee, be chipper!

Ibjr
Dec 23, 2003, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by SeaFox
How can there not be speed-bumped G5's at MWSF? Steve said "3ghz by next [fall]". If they don't bump them up now they'll have to squeeze in either one big update or two less than six months apart.

We don't want any more paper luanches!

crees!
Dec 23, 2003, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by machinehien
http://www.gizmodo.com/archives/011384.php

That thing seems too square and not ergonomically correctly. In other words it wouldn't feel as comfortable in your hand as the iPod. But the article says it has a 14-hour removable battery.. which sounds nice, but I don't think I've gone that long with out habitually recharging my iPod or any other device for that matter unless I was too tired and forgot.

Ibjr
Dec 23, 2003, 12:26 PM
Originally posted by iAdam
I would love the annoucment of mini/cheaper iPods, but i'm just afraid of the them looking cheesey with colors and stripes. I think the cell phones with switchable faceplats look cheep.

You think a 100 dollar ipod will look cheap? Who would have thought that?

uv23
Dec 23, 2003, 12:40 PM
Just thinking out loud here. Some handy features that could help differentiate higher ends iPods from mini iPods would be

a) a digital optical out. Connecting to a home stereo via mini plug is a joke.

b) built in mic

and

c) a *very well engineered* retractable firewire cable behind a little door.

jettredmont
Dec 23, 2003, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by pgwalsh
Totally agree. MWSF should be before the eoy and be an outlook for the following year. Announce new products a month before the holidays.. Never understood why they do that.....

Apple - "We'll announce and release all are great new products after the biggest purchasing time of the year." Steve (aka Mr. Burns) - "We'll make them lust for the new products long enough to make them mad. Excellent."

Um, no.

One key killer for electronics companies is a massive "holiday rush" and then a "post-holiday lull".

Apple announces new gotta-have-it products right at the start of the post-holiday lull. This alleviates the lull and evens out the cyclical demand curve.

It seems to work for Apple. They do much better than most at avoiding a huge reduction in profit margins around the holidays (most companies have a surge in net profits, but per-unit profits are lowered by additional channel costs and temporary production costs, etc).

IMHO, the key problem with this strategy is that, from a consumer POV, this guy just got his first Mac, and got the best one out there, for Christmas, then, a week later, he's got the "low-end" model ... Experienced Apple customers know to avoid buying Apple hardware for the holidays; newbies get trapped and stung.

Channel management, though, goes a long way towards keeping Apple profitable four quarters of the year ...

geerlingguy
Dec 23, 2003, 12:48 PM
Like I said earlier: just add a few stripes, or some different colors instead of the white, and voila:

jettredmont
Dec 23, 2003, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by arn
iPods are sold out this xmas... and Apple expected this.

They apparently sold as many ipods as they could make.

arn

Exactly. Which isn't "good", of course (quite a few shoppers went home empty handed), but it is much better that that production capacity and sales demand went towards $300-500 products instead of a $100 low-profit product.

So, now, introducing the $100 low-profit (but profits nonetheless) product in January will keep Apple at full production without having to expand their inventory, unlike the vast majority of CE companies.

ethernet76
Dec 23, 2003, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by SlowX
Hopefully there will at least be some fixes to the 15" PBs. I mean, i want one, but I DON'T want spots or a bad latch...

I got one in late november with neither of those problems

rjrufo
Dec 23, 2003, 12:54 PM
I just had a thought... (sniff, sniff - does anyone smell something burning?)

iWrite could possibly be a vioce recognition application: You Speak - iWrite.

Maybe?

I better go put out that fire and quit thinking...

geerlingguy
Dec 23, 2003, 12:54 PM
I think I'll just sit back and let Apple surprise me on this MacWorld... I won't get my expectations up, because I know that whatever Steve pulls out of his sleeve will make us all drool, even if it isn't a quad-processor 2.6 Ghz 1U Xserve.

btw, my dad's DP 1.8 G5 just arrived a couple of hours ago :D (but my mom won't let me open it until he gets home :rolleyes:

jettredmont
Dec 23, 2003, 12:56 PM
Originally posted by MarksEvilTwin
What do people think will happen with Apple's stock price after the event?

Traditionally speaking, you are much more likely to have a stock spike before an announcement (of any company, Apple included), than after.

That having been said, it is generally silly to try and market-time a stock based on rumors you hear here. The "big" players both hear the same rumors and have contacts to gauge how true or false they are. You are at a distinct disadvantage in that kind of game.

Stocks go up or down on relative expectations, not on specific news. Apple could break $3B in profit next quarter and the stock price go down if the big stock holders were expecting $3.1B.

noel4r
Dec 23, 2003, 12:56 PM
no G5 iMacs eh? i guess i'll blow my 2K somewhere else... a new tv would be nice...

heuer007
Dec 23, 2003, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by iAdam
I would love the annoucment of mini/cheaper iPods, but i'm just afraid of the them looking cheesey with colors and stripes. I think the cell phones with switchable faceplats look cheep.


ya but the asians will eat them up:D

jettredmont
Dec 23, 2003, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by Macmaniac
A Smaller form factor iPod may only have a 2 line screen, but still have the normal iPod controls, these may use flash memory and if they were $100 I would buy one so fast!

2GB of Flash memory would be around $700 (128MB MMC card is $40-50; you'd need 8 of those for 1GB, which is $320-400; 16 for 2GB would be $640-800; 16 MMC cards is still a bit of space, and a hefty power requirement; I don't think you'd want to go to a less-compact flash format than the minimal MMC).

That is just not gonna happen in a $99-149 product.

jettredmont
Dec 23, 2003, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by suzerain
Last year, at Macworld SF, Apple announced the PowerBook 12" and 17". I don't see why everyone is forgetting this.

And, ThinkSecret was wrong in its Macworld SF 2003 prediction. In fact, last year, ThinkSecret said:

"Laptops and Power Macs will also not get a makeover, sources confirm. Most speculation was that iBooks and PowerBooks would not see upgrades, as they were just upgraded this past November."



1) NO ONE had the 17"/12" laptops rumors (until Arn posted the night before).

2) ThinkSecret was right: the 15" Powerbooks (which, at the time, were the ONLY PowerBooks) were not upgraded at MWSF 2003. I don't recall the iBooks being upgraded either.

3) Shoot at TS's record if you want, but they have a better track record than most sites out there.

jettredmont
Dec 23, 2003, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by Macmaniac
Mini iPods would make great corporate gifts if they were cheap enough. Happy Holidays and here is something you can really enjoy.

I agree. $100 is an upper limit for many gifts, and so Apple would sell lots of units during gift-giving times (including but not limitted to the November-December time period). And a "mini" iPod would certainly be a more welcome and appreciated gift than a box of chocolates and some flowers ...

suzerain
Dec 23, 2003, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by jettredmont
1) NO ONE had the 17"/12" laptops rumors (until Arn posted the night before).

2) ThinkSecret was right: the 15" Powerbooks (which, at the time, were the ONLY PowerBooks) were not upgraded at MWSF 2003. I don't recall the iBooks being upgraded either.

3) Shoot at TS's record if you want, but they have a better track record than most sites out there.

You're missing the point.

I could really care less about TS's track record. My point was this:

Last year, they said "Laptops and Power Macs also will not get a makeover", and then the laptops did.

This year they are saying that there will be no updates to the desktop or laptop line, and so everyone seems to be pretending this is gospel, when clearly, a year ago, they were flat-out wrong.

Even a great rumor site can be wrong.

So my point is...it could certainly be conceivable (and IMO very likely) that they don't have the whole scoop just like last year.

ITR 81
Dec 23, 2003, 01:20 PM
Apple has set up a very large booth there which is approx. the same size as MS.

SJ is either telling everyone no PM upgrades for the Expo to cause mis-direction or has planned to release it to the CES community where it has released some big and small surprises.

SJ does a Keynote on the 6th in CA.
SJ then does a Keynote on the 8th in NE.

"And just one more thing.." line will end up being a whole lot more of something.

I believe SJ wants to wow the crowd at CES which is mostly PC oriented.
MS is said to be releasing something big there as well so it would seem plausible for SJ to release something that would be a buzz kill for MS and knock billy boy of his high horse.

ITR 81
Dec 23, 2003, 01:24 PM
He is playing a mis-information game with everyone. Only the high ups in the food chain know the real deal and even then they maybe limited by just few key words.

SJ is not stupid and probably has actually even looked at a couple of these sites so he knows leaks happen so why not start a mis-information campaign to throw everyone off on.

jettredmont
Dec 23, 2003, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by suzerain
So my point is...it could certainly be conceivable (and IMO very likely) that they don't have the whole scoop just like last year.

Okay, yes, agreed.

It is quite likely that they don't have the "whole" scoop, and also incredibly likely that several of the "finer" points are either just flat out wrong or will be changed on Steve's whim between now and the Expo.

So, no, please put down the revolver and just wait and see what happens at MWSF.

On the other hand, given their relative track record (relative to the rest of the Mac rumors "press"), their information warrants a little more trust than most.

Between AppleInsider and ThinkSecret, I would tend to believe TS more. Moreover, until AI comes out with "confirmation" that G5s will be introduced, it is entirely possible that the AI suppositions are "stale" and that things have changed as TS is reflecting.

Not that I believe AI is completely wrong about their G5 roadmap rumors (although, for the most part, the rumors seem just a minor half-step away from what common sense would dictate), I just believe that G5 updates are more likely to occur outside of the MWSF arena. Apple events have tended towards more single-focus events (music, or consumer wares, or professional wares), which also tends to make the TS suppositions ring truer in my ears (assuming the "mini" iPod rumors are true).

reyesmac
Dec 23, 2003, 01:31 PM
I guess the year of Apples 20th Powermac anniversary might be like the "Year of the laptop". Just something that is said but not backed up by product until much much later in the year. I hope I am wrong. If they do announce something in January whatever it is is so secret that when they announce it they will also announce that it wont be ready for production until summer.

jettredmont
Dec 23, 2003, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by ITR 81
SJ does a Keynote on the 6th in CA.
SJ then does a Keynote on the 8th in NE.


Damn. Steve's flying to Nebraska for a keynote? Cue rumors of a new corn-farming iApp ...

:)

1macker1
Dec 23, 2003, 02:00 PM
I couldnt agree more. Apple better not market too much to teens, because teens are notoriouse for making things a fad. So once they are no longer the 'in' item, what will apple do then. I can see a random teen now "you have an ipod, that was soo last month."
:)
Originally posted by visor
good grief.
I think the ipod is the most overrated gadget in the world.

OK, so I have a 15gig ipod, where does it get me? when I'm underway I can't really navigate the music, it' way too much and crowded. so great, I have a mobile HD - but it's not all that mobile, is it? I mean - without the propiatary firewirecable, It's quite useless as HD, and who would have one of these cables laying around? Noone. most people have a real FW calbe, but certainly noone has an iPod cable, unless he's got a 3g iPod.
what a blizz.
OK, now mini iPods - they wouldn't even keep half of my music, so i'd have to keep moving music about. tataaaa, need another cable for that, since the first cable goes as power cable to the dock in my stereo.
Talking about stereo. it looks real good on top of it. to bad you cant remote controll the song picking. all you could do fastforward and reverse on the cable, or on one of the 3rd party Rc's
Not all to great is it? Makes more sense to put an old iBook in place and RC it via my mobile phone.

Damn, they should better move on to a headless iMac for a change. Make something you can work with, rather than just play with.

ogun7
Dec 23, 2003, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by zim
Seems to me that if apple was going to release smaller colorful iPods, then it would have been smarter to have marketed them for the holidays, oh well. I have my 20GB iPod and love it.

Why sell cheaper iPods when they are sold out everywhere here in NYC and people are queuing 15-20 bodies deep to buy all the 40gigs they have left?

The iPod is the HOTTEST gift this Xmas. If they release a miniPod in Jan., then my brother will get an iPod as a gift.

Dont Hurt Me
Dec 23, 2003, 02:25 PM
ipod is cute but lets get real, the consumer line looks great but performs like crap. thats the bottom line .... i said it.....apple does not compete with apple and we all know it. why not build a imac that can be all it can be - G5 high end, top video card and monitor choice rather then the constant crippling by Apple so it dont compete with the other products they make such as powermac and powerbook. I guess they have forgotten which line saved their bean counter ran corporate butt.(before steve). Make imac all it can be and you wont be able to make enough.:)

machinehien
Dec 23, 2003, 02:44 PM
Seems to me that if apple was going to release smaller colorful iPods, then it would have been smarter to have marketed them for the holidays, oh well. I have my 20GB iPod and love i

I doubt any company can seriously roll out a whole new electronic device in November and expect it to take off in time for Christmas. The current iPod came out last March and it tops the list this season. And look at other must have products like the gameboy advance SP that came out last spring as well. Also the new form factor has to be centered around the storage component, and that single item alone probably dictates the entire manufacturing schedule. It's not like Apple is producing the new microdrives or whatever storage they are using in the iPod, they're waiting on suppliers like they always do.

This year is looking to be great for iPod owners though. 100 million free tracks and cheap iPods, best of all, the high end iPods will still retain most of their cachet value. I'm guessing the new iPods will be all plastic, none of that stainless steel or laser etched graphics for $100.

question fear
Dec 23, 2003, 02:46 PM
Originally posted by jettredmont
2GB of Flash memory would be around $700 (128MB MMC card is $40-50; you'd need 8 of those for 1GB, which is $320-400; 16 for 2GB would be $640-800; 16 MMC cards is still a bit of space, and a hefty power requirement; I don't think you'd want to go to a less-compact flash format than the minimal MMC).

That is just not gonna happen in a $99-149 product.

But compact flash (cf) is cheaper, and pricegrabber puts one gig cfs at ~150.00, and 512 at ~100.00.
Assuming apple is buying in serious bulk, it could be done.
-carly

VoyagerRadio
Dec 23, 2003, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by Macrumors
Previous MacRumors sources (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/12/20031209153636.shtml) reported on iApp updates as well as the possible introduction of a new Application at the Expo.

Do you think that new Application could have anything to do with Logic (http://www.apple.com/software/pro/logic/)?

Lanbrown
Dec 23, 2003, 02:57 PM
But compact flash (cf) is cheaper, and pricegrabber puts one gig cfs at ~150.00, and 512 at ~100.00.
Assuming apple is buying in serious bulk, it could be done.
-carly

And that it would be removable. Fixed flash would be much cheaper to use.

question fear
Dec 23, 2003, 03:07 PM
Originally posted by Lanbrown
And that it would be removable. Fixed flash would be much cheaper to use.

exactly.
they mark up a cf card because a) they can, and b) they need to be built around protecting the chip, whereas an ipod would serve the purpose of protection as well as interface.

jettredmont
Dec 23, 2003, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by question fear
But compact flash (cf) is cheaper, and pricegrabber puts one gig cfs at ~150.00, and 512 at ~100.00.
Assuming apple is buying in serious bulk, it could be done.
-carly

Ummmm ... the $150/GB CompactFlash at PriceGrabber is ...

AN IBM MICRODRIVE!

Which was exactly my point: hard-drive-based technology is significantly cheaper than flash!

1GB CF flash memory can be had for $260 according to PriceGrabber (considerably cheaper than SD/MMC, though).

Yes, Apple can get slightly cheaper in bulk, and eliminating the removable interface would help a little (although not a lot), but you're still looking at Flash memory being just a hair under twice as expensive as [edit: similarly-sized] hard-drive memory.

[edit: Note that for the price of 1GB of flash memory you can get a couple 6GB 2.5" notebook hard drives and have money to spare ... size definitely matters here, and I really don't expect all three of the following to be true:

1) iPod Jr will be $100
2) iPod Jr will be 2GB
3) iPod Jr will be smaller than the current iPod

]

jettredmont
Dec 23, 2003, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by question fear
exactly.
they mark up a cf card because a) they can, and b) they need to be built around protecting the chip, whereas an ipod would serve the purpose of protection as well as interface.

CF isn't marked up on a whim. The margins are fairly thin (single-digit percentages).

The cost of protecting the chip is minor to say the least (pennies in plastic); the most expensive part of CF memory is the on-card controller chip. Yet, even that doesn't materially affect the end-user price of CF. The MAXIMUM cost of these components would be around $15. Why? Because brand-new 16MB CF cards are sold for that much, and they have the same protection and controller chips as the more expensive cards (http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php/masterid=43362/search=16MB%20compact%20flash/ut=0c16190aa69e77e6)

The production costs of the "core" memory in those 1GB CF chips might be around $200, minimum, assuming the cheapest merchants plus manufacturer are selling it at a combined markup of 20% (which is a huge markup and not typical in the flash memory industry at all!). Doubling the size by moving to twin 512MB cards (while increasing the controller complexity) would decrease the minimum production costs slightly, but not substantially enough to compete with hard-drive based storage at a similar size and density.

Similar production costs will get you a 2GB 1" drive and leave money on the table.

To be absolutely clear: No one in this world can profitably sell a 2GB device of any sort based on Flash memory technology.

It is simply not possible this year.

jobberwacky
Dec 23, 2003, 04:04 PM
AAPL always drops after their big events. There's probably not much logic to it, but it always happens. But not more than to please the day traders.

Andreas

SeaFox
Dec 23, 2003, 04:11 PM
Originally posted by iAdam
I would love the annoucment of mini/cheaper iPods, but i'm just afraid of the them looking cheesey with colors and stripes. I think the cell phones with switchable faceplats look cheep.

No, switchable faceplates are great! You can change the color as your prefrence changes. Well done faceplate systems look pretty good. Just check out some of Nokia's business market mobile phones.

The real benefit is replaceability. Cosmetic case scratches is one thing that has a big effect on the resale value of electronics. Nobody wants an iPod with a screen that's super scratched up. People take their beautiful T610's and stick them in tacky cases to protect them.

If the case gets sraped or stained and you don't have face plates, you can either send it to the factory for replacement for $100-200 or do it yourself for $30-50 and void your warranty. But if you have faceplates you can just buy a new one for $20-40.

SeaFox
Dec 23, 2003, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by Ibjr
We don't want any more paper luanches!

What's that supposed to mean?

balconycollapse
Dec 23, 2003, 05:36 PM
If this keynote presentation is to be music centric i expect some big news on the pro audio front as well. Jobs recently pointed out the path music takes from creation to market and how so much of it centers around apples products (not to mention film/print media). I get so many sneers from friends and family for using Apple products but they are dumbfounded when i start listing the large # of mac users who are famous musicians. People respect that for some reason. Vicarious living. Star****ers. Armchair quarterbacks. What ever you wanna call it. Suddenly it becomes ok that i have a mac as i watch the person start revaluating immediately that "one button mouse" or "no software" statement because now they know radiohead/coldplay/moby and others might use one. Its all about the associations! I look at it this way. Guitars are cool, if you have a guitar someone somewhere is going to think your cool. Some girl is going to sit crosslegged on a floor all dreamy eyed and ask you to play it. You might not know a single not but she associates you with that guitar and if you only play twinkle twinkle star youre probably gonna get some action. In modern times with all the music production that is done on a mac and the increasing number of home based studios having a mac is the equivalent of a les paul custom. So while they are telling us how great iPods/iTMS are (MTV rap videos/Celebrity endorsements(u2, sara mc)/Time Magazine) why not remind us that the people who are making the music are using macs at the top end too. If "apple" can become synonymous with "rock star" then the future is a golden path.



As far as eMagic announcements i hope for integrated Logic hardware. I've heard rumors that with the core audio apple has built in Logic hardware support. Pro Tools is beating Logic for now because they have gobs of scalable hardware that can take some of the load of the computer. Apple is releasing faster machines (g5s) that can do more of the same hardware tasks natively that the protools hardware is doing but still would benefit by having their own line of scalable mixers, input devices, or effects processing among other things via firewire . If apple could make my music production process even more intuitive then it already is, this would be it. Fingers are crossed.

----------
"We are not meant to be cogs in a system"
-Howard Dean

mactarkus
Dec 23, 2003, 06:18 PM
I sure hope Steve has some exciting G5 desktop news for me. I'll be in attendance and I want him to personally sell me a Rev 2 G5. I've been waiting patiently as the first batch got out the door -- waiting for the right moment!

The iPod news I want to hear is the new video iPod. All it needs is a color screen and you're there. You already have the highspeed FW connection, the user interface, enough storage for video, and a microprocessor to run the whole shebang!

WM.
Dec 23, 2003, 09:47 PM
Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
ipod is cute but lets get real, the consumer line looks great but performs like crap. thats the bottom line .... i said it.....apple does not compete with apple and we all know it. why not build a imac that can be all it can be - G5 high end, top video card and monitor choice rather then the constant crippling by Apple so it dont compete with the other products they make such as powermac and powerbook. I guess they have forgotten which line saved their bean counter ran corporate butt.(before steve).
That would be the Power Mac. If it weren't for those $4000+ 8x00s and 9x00s...

Really, I think the best the consumer line has ever been, relative to the rest of the line, would be when the G3 and G4 iMacs were first introduced, and maybe when the iBook first came out. Other than that, throughout Apple's history there have not been many consumer lines that have even approached the pro lines the way you want them to. Maybe the IIci was considered a consumer product, long ago? Or something like the PowerBook 150? Both of those were introduced when I was in kindergarten (roughly), so I really wouldn't know. :)

WM

~Shard~
Dec 23, 2003, 10:26 PM
Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
ipod is cute but lets get real, the consumer line looks great but performs like crap. thats the bottom line .... i said it.....apple does not compete with apple and we all know it. why not build a imac that can be all it can be - G5 high end, top video card and monitor choice rather then the constant crippling by Apple so it dont compete with the other products they make such as powermac and powerbook. I guess they have forgotten which line saved their bean counter ran corporate butt.(before steve). Make imac all it can be and you wont be able to make enough.:)

You want to buy an iMac that is top of the line, G5, top-end video card, monitor choice, etc.? Go ahead and buy one right now - it's called the PowerMac. And be prepared to absorb the resulting costs as well for a top-end system. However, there are those poeple out there who can't afford $3000 for a PM + $500 for a flat panel monitor + tax and don't need a top-of-the-line machine to check their e-mail, surf the Net and play iTunes. For those people, there is the consumer line, and the iMac. It's called product differentiation, and involves making products that cover a range of price points, and types of consumers. I'm not going to start a lecture on economics and marketing here though, so I'll just stop. :cool:

PretendPCuser
Dec 24, 2003, 12:02 AM
Originally posted by jettredmont
Damn. Steve's flying to Nebraska for a keynote? Cue rumors of a new corn-farming iApp ...

:)

But of course:
iCorn - Husks corn with the greatest of ease, just like you'd expect from Apple. The cornhusker for the rest of us. Heh.

Or:
iMuck
Mucks out stalls, relieving your nostrils and saving you time so that you can do what you've always wanted....husk some corn.

Sorry farm folk, just having a bit of fun. Go ahead and level your barrels at the urbanist northerner. You may fire when ready.

BACK on Topic.
Yay. iPods! (Crankyankers!)

That would be great if they spoofed SJ and BG cranking each other. Pay attention! There's good ideas here!!!! :rolleyes:

Edot
Dec 24, 2003, 12:15 AM
I wonder if the new non-mini iPods will incorporate the light emitting plastic that Apple patented a while back. You could have a iTunes visualizer like iPod flashing and pulsing to your music. Just a crazy idea I had.

The Patent:

http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2002/12/20021227191929.shtml

balconycollapse
Dec 24, 2003, 02:27 AM
Oh man light emitting plastic! I love it! I'd get one just for the novelty. I'm curious. Do you think the cheap ipod would be rechargeable or run on AA batteries like a walkman? No one has discussed this to my knowledge.

Machead III
Dec 24, 2003, 05:22 AM
Apple has practically half the portable music community on it's side, with hadcore listners to fans with lots of cash snapping up one of the current 3 iPods. But if they released a $100 (£60) model that was durable, compact and held 2 or 3 CDs at least, you would have the casual listners and practically every teenager on the planet with a crappy old CD player buying it.

k2k koos
Dec 24, 2003, 07:57 AM
Sorry everyone, it's Emagic, not eMagic....

i've seen this mistake more than once, but Emagic is the correct company name.

sushi
Dec 24, 2003, 08:09 AM
Originally posted by machinehien
http://www.gizmodo.com/archives/011384.php

Interesting.

My guess (thinking that it will be a flash based player) would be something like the current iPod but much thinner (about 25%) since they would not need the hard drive.

The iPod's size allows plenty of room to use surface mount flash memory.

With FM prices falling, I still think that is an option they may be looking at.

From a Japanese perspective, even the current 10/20GB models are too thick to wear with a suit. In Japan, where most folks commute by train everyday, thickness becomes an issue (as well as overall size).

BTW, as of two weeks ago iPods were not selling as well as expected here in Tokyo at the Apple store.

While I have and love my original 10GB iPod, tonight I used my flash memory player, a RIO SU30.

http://www.rioaudio.jp/products/riosu30.html

It is the size of a pack of stick gum, and weights a mere fraction of what an iPod weighs. It is so light, that I don't even notice it in my shirt pocket. Space wise, with my Sony earbuds, both take less space than my keys!

Very very convenient! :D

Sushi

Dont Hurt Me
Dec 24, 2003, 09:09 AM
Originally posted by ~Shard~
You want to buy an iMac that is top of the line, G5, top-end video card, monitor choice, etc.? Go ahead and buy one right now - it's called the PowerMac. And be prepared to absorb the resulting costs as well for a top-end system. However, there are those poeple out there who can't afford $3000 for a PM + $500 for a flat panel monitor + tax and don't need a top-of-the-line machine to check their e-mail, surf the Net and play iTunes. For those people, there is the consumer line, and the iMac. It's called product differentiation, and involves making products that cover a range of price points, and types of consumers. I'm not going to start a lecture on economics and marketing here though, so I'll just stop. :cool: Thanks for stopping, G4's suck and thats why G5's are in Powermac. How long will Apple force the agonizing slow G4 on us ( consumers )? well as long as the slow g4 sits in those imacs sales will continue to get smaller,smaller except for the fools that buy one. Lets see a cpu 1.25 thats less then half of a dual 1.42 they sold in powermacs a year ago?a bus speed of 167? 1/3 of what those cheap Pcs have, it also has the slowest videochip on the market fx5200(garbage but cheap for apple)not upgradeable, your stuck with the monitor thats stuck to a G4. Lets see now why are sales sucking? Blame the market, blame George Bush, Blame those fast Pcs? come on just get rid of motorola's G4 instead of constant crippling of imac so it dont compete with powermac or anything else for that matter. This is Apples problem, instead of building a great imac they give us more g4. it went from 1.0 to 1.25 this year! and were supposed to be happy with that?they even held back emac because it was beating imac. The G4 was getting whipped 1 year ago and they were using 2. now we get one thats even slower? Motorola is still kicking Apples corporate butt years later. I know there are mac heads here that even if apple used 1.25 g4's for the next year they would be shouting that they dont need the speed, how great apple is and blah blah blah.

Geetar
Dec 24, 2003, 09:35 AM
Don't hurt me (incidentally, why not? You clearly deserve it):-

Ha! Good Lord, you're even more boring when I've got to read your sad git whining from a crap PC connection on glacially-slow telephone modem in Moscow. I'd've hardly thought it possible....

Still, I can't help myself. Amazing amount of work I've done this year on a (by your standards) crap G4 500 (yet!).

Work is the metric here ("No nye pa twoyemu," as they say here), like it is when I'm back at base in Florida.

What are you doing on a non-pro PC rig that you can't manage on an iMac ?

Dont Hurt Me
Dec 24, 2003, 10:07 AM
People dont buy computers because they are slow, in fact most people buy new ones that are faster but if apple continues with moto it will never be much faster therefore where is the incentive to buy a new machine if its had virtually no progress? This is motorola's legacy they have given to apples consumer machines. If not for the G5 coming on line what would apple do? try to sell us on the idea of 4 moto cpu's in a single computer? Just admit it moto's G4 is and has been stuck for years. Even the new over 2 thousand dollar 20" imac is still using a 1.25 G4???? Consumers are not all idiots and would say the Apple consumer is brighter then most. sooner or later this monkey( G4 ) has got to go.

the_mole1314
Dec 24, 2003, 11:11 AM
From what I've heard, this is nearly a total turn in events. If my sources are still correct, expect a same size in height and lenght, but MUCH slimmer. As for the colors, I guess this was a very recent decision, as in the last few weeks.

My educated guess of the next prodcut line....

2 gig- $99
4/5 gig- $199
10 gig- $299
20 gig- $399
40 gig- $499
60 gig- $599

~Shard~
Dec 24, 2003, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
Thanks for stopping, G4's suck and thats why G5's are in Powermac.

First of all, yes, you're right, there is a reason G5s are in the PowerMac - they are the better chip. And although "G4's suck" is neither a proper technical analysis, nor is it proper grammar, they are the lower-end chip and currently have their place, until the G5 iMacs come out in spring, or whenever it might be.

Why does every machine have to have a top of the line chip and hardware in them? How do you differentiate products? I'm all for the iMac having a G5, but what you are proposing is making it exactly like the PowerMac which makes no sense. Why not do away with the iMac then altogether, how would it be any different from the PowerMac?

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
How long will Apple force the agonizing slow G4 on us ( consumers )?

The answer to your question is, until the G5 iMac is released, probably very soon. Patience is a virtue. We are slowly coming out of the Motorola age and into the IBM age, so updates will become much better and more frequent. Once again, patience is a virtue.

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
well as long as the slow g4 sits in those imacs sales will continue to get smaller,smaller except for the fools that buy one.

My grandpa likes to surf the Net and check his e-mail. That's it. Why does he need a G5? Is he a fool? I think the fools are people who make narrow-minded comments like the one quoted above.

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
it also has the slowest videochip on the market fx5200(garbage but cheap for apple)not upgradeable

Slowest on the market? Hmm, I can still go out an buy a GeForce 2 MX, so that statement is completely incorrect for starters. Secondly, once again, does everyone need top of the line hardware? My old PC has a GeForce 2 with 32 MB RAM (not even DDR!) in it. Guess what - it displays my screen fine. I don't play games, why would I need anything more? Hell, a FX5200 is overkill for my needs, and most people's needs. If you are a gamer, you need a power machine with a power video card regardless, so feel free to buy a PowerMac. The FX5200 is not garbage, as it works just fine - so once again, you are incorrect with your non-technical assessment.

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
come on just get rid of motorola's G4 instead of constant crippling of imac so it dont compete with powermac or anything else for that matter.

I totally agree - the G5 needs to make its way into the iMac. Motorola is slowly being phased out, and the iMac's time will come in the next few months. As for the iMac being crippled, this is once again, incorrect. a 1.25 GHz G4 is adequate for many people's needs. There are many people on this forum using even older machines, which you would deem as crippled garbage, who will prove you wrong time and time again.

You seem to think that something is garbage if it can't compete with the top of the line systems. Why does Intel still make Celeron chips then? You never see Celerons competing with top of the line chips, but they have their place, just as the G4s currently do.

SeaFox
Dec 24, 2003, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by the_mole1314

My educated guess of the next prodcut line....

2 gig- $99
4/5 gig- $199
10 gig- $299
20 gig- $399
40 gig- $499
60 gig- $599

I don't think they'll go up in ladder like that. The gap between the largest Mini-iPod and the bottom iPod is too small. I expect the Mini=iPod will only function as a music player and not a firewire disk (although many students could use some portable document storage without needing 6+ gigs of it). Plus, I think four iPods + 2 Mini-iPods is too many products.

I see it like this:

2 GB - $99
4 GB - $149
15 GB - $299
30 GB - $399
40 GB - $499

rdowns
Dec 24, 2003, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
Thanks for stopping, G4's suck and thats why G5's are in Powermac. How long will Apple force the agonizing slow G4 on us ( consumers )? well as long as the slow g4 sits in those imacs sales will continue to get smaller,smaller except for the fools that buy one. Lets see a cpu 1.25 thats less then half of a dual 1.42 they sold in powermacs a year ago?a bus speed of 167? 1/3 of what those cheap Pcs have, it also has the slowest videochip on the market fx5200(garbage but cheap for apple)not upgradeable, your stuck with the monitor thats stuck to a G4. Lets see now why are sales sucking? Blame the market, blame George Bush, Blame those fast Pcs? come on just get rid of motorola's G4 instead of constant crippling of imac so it dont compete with powermac or anything else for that matter. This is Apples problem, instead of building a great imac they give us more g4. it went from 1.0 to 1.25 this year! and were supposed to be happy with that?they even held back emac because it was beating imac. The G4 was getting whipped 1 year ago and they were using 2. now we get one thats even slower? Motorola is still kicking Apples corporate butt years later. I know there are mac heads here that even if apple used 1.25 g4's for the next year they would be shouting that they dont need the speed, how great apple is and blah blah blah.

Testify! More of Jobs head up his ass marketing with the iMac. His job is to maximize shareholder value and putting out the best consumer desktop is the best and quickest way to do that. The notion that so-called pro users and consumers can't have the same chip in the computer is ridiculous. If it caused Apple's miniscule business user base to buy iMacs and not Powermacs, so be it. Besides, most of their business base would not due to the horsepower, graphics and expandability they need. With a G5 in it, the iMac would still be highly difffrentiated from the Powermacs.

I also think it's just plain assinine to say you can't put a G5 in an iMac because the "pro" PowerBok doesn't have it.

I love Apple and its products. I sold over 15,000 Macs when I was a reseller and evangelized their platform to the best of my ability.

I'm so tired of wanting a consumer system and all they offer is paltry compared to what PC vendors offer. Remember the original iMac, excellent price-performance in its day and it sold like iPods do today. Do it again Steve!

I want a G5 and I don't want the monster PowerMac, I have no room for it. Give me a G5 iMac with current technolgy and I'm buying 3. Keep me waiting and I might go PC after 16 years.

Surely I'm not the only one who feels this way.

Rant over. Merrry Xmas everyone!

~Shard~
Dec 24, 2003, 05:21 PM
Originally posted by rdowns
The notion that so-called pro users and consumers can't have the same chip in the computer is ridiculous.


I completely agree. But you have to realize that these things take time. Up until June 2003, The PowerMac line and the iMac line did have the same chip in them. But Once the G5 is released, it simply takes time for it to appear it the iMac - and this will happen very soon. Apple has so many things on the go, whether it be working on the PB G5 redesign, new iPod stuff, ITMS, G5 xServes, new LCDs, new iApps, Panther, and who knows what else, that it can't just jump up and release everything right away. These things take time!

Originally posted by rdowns

With a G5 in it, the iMac would still be highly difffrentiated from the Powermacs.

I agree. Put a 1.6 or 1.8 GHz G5 in the new iMac. However, what Don't Hurt Me was saying above, was that the iMac should have the exact same chip and the exact same hardware - now this idea is simply foolish.

Originally posted by rdowns
I also think it's just plain assinine to say you can't put a G5 in an iMac because the "pro" PowerBok doesn't have it.

No, you're right, there's no reason that they can't put a G5 chip in the iMac, but this gets back to my earlier points about product differentiation. Why not put a G5 in the eMac and iBook then too? They definitely can put a G5 in anything (once the unit has been appropriately redesigned), but that's not the point. The iMac will see the G5 soon, just before the PBs receive them, but it seems silly to put the G5 in an iMac before the mighty xServe even gets one! Plus, the iMac is undergoing a complete redesign, and there is the timing issue as well regarding this.

Originally posted by rdowns
I want a G5 and I don't want the monster PowerMac, I have no room for it. Give me a G5 iMac with current technolgy and I'm buying 3. Keep me waiting and I might go PC after 16 years.

Just wait a little longer, my friend and you will have your wish. It has take Apple some time to get out of the ditch Motorola had dug for us, but now that IBM is around, we will be seeing more frequent and impressive updates, and the nasty Moto stench will soon be a thing of the past. :cool:

Just curious though, once the G5 PowerBooks come out in early summer (or whenever), are you going to start complaining that the iBooks don't have the G5 chip as well? ;)

rdowns
Dec 24, 2003, 06:02 PM
Originally posted by ~Shard~
Just curious though, once the G5 PowerBooks come out in early summer (or whenever), are you going to start complaining that the iBooks don't have the G5 chip as well? ;)

Nope. The iBooks are very competitve where they are now with the G4. If a notebook user wants a G5, an alternative will be there. If an iMac consumer wants a G5, there is no alternative now. It's been six months since the G5, it's time. I could just go buy a Powermac but it is too big and more than I need or want. Definately not the money; just had my best year ever.

If Apple does release a G5 iMac in January, I'll get on my knees, face Cupertino and pray to Steve, right after I order them.

~Shard~
Dec 24, 2003, 07:37 PM
Originally posted by rdowns
Nope. The iBooks are very competitve where they are now with the G4. If a notebook user wants a G5, an alternative will be there. If an iMac consumer wants a G5, there is no alternative now. It's been six months since the G5, it's time. I could just go buy a Powermac but it is too big and more than I need or want. Definately not the money; just had my best year ever.

If Apple does release a G5 iMac in January, I'll get on my knees, face Cupertino and pray to Steve, right after I order them.

I was just joking with my last comment there, I hope you realize. ;)

But yes, I agree - the iBook/PowerBook situation is defintely different than the iMac/PowerMac situation right now.

rdowns
Dec 24, 2003, 07:45 PM
Originally posted by ~Shard~
I was just joking with my last comment there, I hope you realize. ;)

But yes, I agree - the iBook/PowerBook situation is defintely different than the iMac/PowerMac situation right now.

The smiley told me it was a joke but the question deserved an answer. Glad to see you agree.

Dont Hurt Me
Dec 24, 2003, 09:24 PM
Originally posted by rdowns
Testify! More of Jobs head up his ass marketing with the iMac. His job is to maximize shareholder value and putting out the best consumer desktop is the best and quickest way to do that. The notion that so-called pro users and consumers can't have the same chip in the computer is ridiculous. If it caused Apple's miniscule business user base to buy iMacs and not Powermacs, so be it. Besides, most of their business base would not due to the horsepower, graphics and expandability they need. With a G5 in it, the iMac would still be highly difffrentiated from the Powermacs.

I also think it's just plain assinine to say you can't put a G5 in an iMac because the "pro" PowerBok doesn't have it.

I love Apple and its products. I sold over 15,000 Macs when I was a reseller and evangelized their platform to the best of my ability.

I'm so tired of wanting a consumer system and all they offer is paltry compared to what PC vendors offer. Remember the original iMac, excellent price-performance in its day and it sold like iPods do today. Do it again Steve!

I want a G5 and I don't want the monster PowerMac, I have no room for it. Give me a G5 iMac with current technolgy and I'm buying 3. Keep me waiting and I might go PC after 16 years.

Surely I'm not the only one who feels this way.

Rant over. Merrry Xmas everyone! I feel your pain but Apple has to pull its head out of its corporate a..! as long as G4 is forced on us sales will suck. dump the ballast Steve.

SeaFox
Dec 24, 2003, 11:05 PM
Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
I feel your pain but Apple has to pull its head out of its corporate a..! as long as G4 is forced on us sales will suck. dump the ballast Steve.

That's the same thing people said about the G3's after the G4's came out and all the popular audio/visual apps grabbed big performance boosts with AltiVec. It seems some people will never be satisfied as long as the consumer machine are not running the latest and greatest chips the pro towers are.

~Shard~
Dec 25, 2003, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by SeaFox
That's the same thing people said about the G3's after the G4's came out and all the popular audio/visual apps grabbed big performance boosts with AltiVec. It seems some people will never be satisfied as long as the consumer machine are not running the latest and greatest chips the pro towers are.

Yah, that's pretty much the same conclusion I've reached after reading some of these posts - some people aren't happy unless they have something to complain about, and can't comprehend the big picture at times. I responded in detail to these types of comments in my reply to Don't Hurt Me's earlier post, but he never responded back, so perhaps I actually gave him something to think about! ;)

narco
Dec 25, 2003, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by zim
Seems to me that if apple was going to release smaller colorful iPods, then it would have been smarter to have marketed them for the holidays, oh well.

Look at how much iPods are selling now, regardless of the price. When all the new iPod owners show off their iPod, the new mini iPods will (possibly) be out. If the mini iPods were released before Christmas, everyone would be getting those instead of the more expensive one.

SeaFox
Dec 25, 2003, 07:27 PM
Originally posted by ~Shard~
Yah, that's pretty much the same conclusion I've reached after reading some of these posts - some people aren't happy unless they have something to complain about, and can't comprehend the big picture at times. I responded in detail to these types of comments in my reply to Don't Hurt Me's earlier post, but he never responded back, so perhaps I actually gave him something to think about! ;)

I really don't see anything bad about the G4 chip. Now the G3's really were at a disadvantage compared to the G4 with all the most popular software Altivec enhanced. But Macworld's review of the last of the G3 iBooks (800/900 mhz) found they were fairly snappy for being G3 machines simply because the processor speed and graphics chips had imroved so much since the first iceBook came out.

With both the Powerbooks and Consumer iBooks still sporting G4 chips, there is little reason to poo-poo the G4 processor. It used to be the rule desktop systems were to be more powerful than laptop systems anyway, mostly because of power and temprature being less of a problem. Perhaps we've been a little spoiled by how the platforms have evened out over the years.

trutherd
Dec 25, 2003, 07:36 PM
Keynote on the 8th in NE? What is NE.. Nebraska, New England, ? Really confused.. Is it confirmed he's giving another keynote on the 8th? Where is it?


Originally posted by ITR 81
Apple has set up a very large booth there which is approx. the same size as MS.

SJ is either telling everyone no PM upgrades for the Expo to cause mis-direction or has planned to release it to the CES community where it has released some big and small surprises.

SJ does a Keynote on the 6th in CA.
SJ then does a Keynote on the 8th in NE.

"And just one more thing.." line will end up being a whole lot more of something.

I believe SJ wants to wow the crowd at CES which is mostly PC oriented.
MS is said to be releasing something big there as well so it would seem plausible for SJ to release something that would be a buzz kill for MS and knock billy boy of his high horse.

Travis Novak
Dec 25, 2003, 10:10 PM
I'm not sure about this color and stipe idea. Unless they realese some other style update I don't they would do that. Everything for some time now has been silver and white. They wouldn't screw up their entire syncronization just to make a splash with a very limited audience. Form, function, and price will sell better than any new hip look.

~Shard~
Dec 25, 2003, 10:19 PM
Originally posted by SeaFox
I really don't see anything bad about the G4 chip. Now the G3's really were at a disadvantage compared to the G4 with all the most popular software Altivec enhanced. But Macworld's review of the last of the G3 iBooks (800/900 mhz) found they were fairly snappy for being G3 machines simply because the processor speed and graphics chips had imroved so much since the first iceBook came out.

With both the Powerbooks and Consumer iBooks still sporting G4 chips, there is little reason to poo-poo the G4 processor. It used to be the rule desktop systems were to be more powerful than laptop systems anyway, mostly because of power and temprature being less of a problem. Perhaps we've been a little spoiled by how the platforms have evened out over the years.

Completely agree with you, SeaFox. I honestly can't wait to see a G5 in the iMac, however I don't see the need for all this excessive G4 bashing. My co-worker has a PowerBook with a G4 for instance, 450 MHz, and with Panther, it still does everything he needs it to, and it's not even sluggish! I'm not saying the iMacs don't need an upgrade and a fresh new look - they are due - but all in good time, i.e. a few more months. The G4 has been stuck speed-wise for a long time, yes, the G4 has been around a while and become old technology, yes, and the G4 gets its butt kicked by the G5, yes, but let's not bash the G4 because of this, as it is still a decent chip. Perhaps these G4 bashers go to PC forums too, and bash Celerons in their spare time as well. ;)

Dont Hurt Me
Dec 26, 2003, 10:09 AM
I guess we got a lot of newbies to the mac world here, if you have been a long time mac user as myself then you clearly realize that Motorola never advanced much. 1+ year at 500mhz, so apple had to come up with dual cpu's since its all they had and the pro line was taking a whipping, now we have another year at about 1 gig. did you not know apple was using 2 G4s 1.42s a year ago? whats the fastest G4 we have now a year Later?1.33?? you guys are saying you are just happy as can be to keep going on and on with no progress? either you are young, naive or hate progress. G4 was spanked by all other cpu makers a long time ago. read some benches or go do something like play UT2003 or Halo and perhaps you will find out how slow that G4 you love so much is. Apple has the best software but why is it they have less then 5% market????ill tell you why they are still trying to cram slow G4's down our throat. I would think most buyers spending close to 2 grand( imac) want a little more then a 1.25 g4. spin it all you want, even spit out the megahertz myth if you want but the truth is G4 is way way behind. sure its all you need for internet or viewing that next box of cereal but this is about selling computers and slow computers dont sell, though apple has done everything under the sun to make those slow G4's attractive such as super cool styling. Just as many waited for G4 to get the boot out of powermac there are many like me waiting for the G4 to get the boot out of imac.

question fear
Dec 26, 2003, 12:48 PM
wait...i know what the ipod change will be....
G5 IPOD
WORLDS FASTEST MP3 PLAYER


;-)

~Shard~
Dec 26, 2003, 05:11 PM
I'll edit out 95% of your post, since it is all common knowledge
and doesn't really add anything of value to our discussion here. Plus, it seems like you're overreacting to some posts that, well, I've never seen before (not saying I've read every post of course!) . For example, you remark, "you guys are saying you are just happy as can be to keep going on and on with no progress? either you are young, naive or hate progress." I have never read one post on this forum where someone has said they don't want progress and hate it. Please quote a post with that exact sentiment and please prove me wrong and I will gladly accept it, in all seriousness. Otherwise, it seems as though you are angered at some sort of "phantom posts" or points of view that do not exist! ;)

Anyway, as for the remaining 5% of your post:

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
Just as many waited for G4 to get the boot out of powermac there are many like me waiting for the G4 to get the boot out of imac.

Yep, and I'm one of them - I can't wait to see the G5 in the iMac, as Motorola has been horrible to deal with these past couple of years. The upcoming "IBM years" will definitely be a much better time. But, all in good time - Apple can only work on so many new hardware and software projects at once, so it's just a matter of time. And the iMac's time will come in a few short months. :cool:

SeaFox
Dec 26, 2003, 11:37 PM
Originally posted by ~Shard~
I'll edit out 95% of your post, since it is all common knowledge
and doesn't really add anything of value to our discussion here. Plus, it seems like you're overreacting to some posts that, well, I've never seen before (not saying I've read every post of course!) . For example, you remark, "you guys are saying you are just happy as can be to keep going on and on with no progress? either you are young, naive or hate progress." I have never read one post on this forum where someone has said they don't want progress and hate it.

We'd just like the machines to be affordable when they have the high speed chips. One reason Appls continues to thrive compared to other PC makers is because of it's large margins. One thing Don't Hurt Me doesn't seem to get is many PC manufacturers lose money on their ultra cheap models. Apple actually makes money on every computer they sell. If Apple sold their machines at the prices PC makers do, buying a Mac would have a very low return of investment because they would have gone the way of Amiga and users would be abandoned by developers much like BeOS users were.

But I really like the first sentence. :D

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
I guess we got a lot of newbies to the mac world here, if you have been a long time mac user as myself then you clearly realize that Motorola never advanced much.

What a wonderful assumption! We are newbies in the Mac world because we don't hate Motorola's guts. The obsession with performance is certainly characteristic of the PC world, maybe it's Don't Hurt Me who's the newbie here. I like performance as much as the next person, but it isn't the sole measure of my computing experience. If there is one mark that Mac users should wear with pride (and that proves my point) it is that Mac users have been shown to be more productive than PC users despite them having the performance advantage in hardware.

My first Mac was a IIsi. And I used Photoshop on it! Talk to anyone in the PC world and they would not believe using a 20mhz computer for graphics.

Yes, I think it sucks the G4 got stuck for so long performance-wise. But that doesn't mean I am going to discount the entire family for a growth stunt by their maker.

The average home user does not need the same hardware the professiona; uses. It may be handy to have the extra speed, FW800, ect. But when so many of your users will sell their machine before they think of adding PCI cards, is there reason to put in three slots? And if they just surf the net and word process, do they need Dual 2.0 Ghz G5's?

~Shard~
Dec 27, 2003, 12:58 AM
Originally posted by SeaFox
One reason Appls continues to thrive compared to other PC makers is because of it's large margins. One thing Don't Hurt Me doesn't seem to get is many PC manufacturers lose money on their ultra cheap models. Apple actually makes money on every computer they sell. If Apple sold their machines at the prices PC makers do, buying a Mac would have a very low return of investment because they would have gone the way of Amiga and users would be abandoned by developers much like BeOS users were.

Well put SeaFox - some people don't realize that Apple and Dell are the only 2 computer companies that actually make money - Jobs said it himself. And if I remember correctly, Jobs also mentioned that Dell is essentially the WalMart of computers. So where would you like to buy your computer from? ;)

Originally posted by SeaFox
What a wonderful assumption! We are newbies in the Mac world because we don't hate Motorola's guts. The obsession with performance is certainly characteristic of the PC world, maybe it's Don't Hurt Me who's the newbie here.

Couldn't have put it better myself. Glad to see I'm not the only logical one here. :cool:

chanoc
Dec 27, 2003, 05:14 AM
I know 4 people at my work who said they would be buying a mini ipod if they come about this MacWorld. The idea of a lowend ipod at 2GB would be great!

potterfast
Dec 27, 2003, 07:06 AM
I just got a case for my iPod and it stated on the case that it fits the New 3 GB iPods!

I'll post pictures of the case soon.

Sir_Giggles
Dec 27, 2003, 09:06 AM
Am I the only one to feel time has slowed down since they announced MWSF? I find myself compulsively counting down the hours until I can watch the live QT stream.

The wait is too painful, I need my Apple fix right now!:(

:D :D :D

Duff-Man
Dec 27, 2003, 11:21 AM
Originally posted by potterfast
I just got a case for my iPod and it stated on the case that it fits the New 3 GB iPods! Duff-Man says.....it probably says "3G" which refers to the "3rd generation" iPod - the current ones. Nothing to do with 3GB......oh yeah!

~Shard~
Dec 27, 2003, 11:46 AM
Originally posted by potterfast
I just got a case for my iPod and it stated on the case that it fits the New 3 GB iPods!

I'll post pictures of the case soon.

Um, does the case say "3GB" iPod or "3G" iPod, as in the 3rd generation of iPod, i.e. the current iPods?

Might want to check that, blush a little bit in emabarassment, then re-post to confirm. :cool:

Sir_Giggles
Dec 27, 2003, 04:41 PM
I think he was just pulling your leg about the 3GB iPod being confirmed.

I hardly believe its possible the case will fit what would amount to a smaller form factor for the new iPod-Mini or the upcoming iPod/AV.

Mac Dummy
Dec 27, 2003, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by suzerain
Hmmm...at the last Macworld Expo SF, they launched two groundbreaking new models of PowerBook that were completely unexpected. I think that was kind of a big product launch.

And...you know...the Macworld Expo SF before that (2002) they released the flat panel iMac. Also, kind of a 'big' product launch.

The year before that (2001), Apple introduced the Titanium PowerBook and speed-bumped G4 towers, which was also a really big product launch.

So, I don't understand where in the world people get the idea Apple doesn't launch products at Macworld SF. It seems like it is the opposite: Apple always announces new hardware at Macworld SF.

Still, it's possible this year could be the exception.

Someone else commented that this was sounding very much like last year, where everyone expected eMac/iMac updates, and they didn't come.

So the question becomes: what will be the major surprise hardware announcement? An XServe G5? I think that's expected, and wouldn't surprise anyone...so going by recent history, there will be something else.

I heard somewhere, maybe it was on this forum that the G5 Powermacs would reach speeds up to a dual 2.5Ghz. If Apple does this the price of the dual 2.0 and 1.8 Ghz will drop. Hopefully they will dump the single processor 1.6Ghz from the lineup, due to the fact that it is inferior to the duals.

potterfast
Dec 29, 2003, 08:11 AM
Originally posted by Sir_Giggles
I think he was just pulling your leg about the 3GB iPod being confirmed.

I hardly believe its possible the case will fit what would amount to a smaller form factor for the new iPod-Mini or the upcoming iPod/AV.

My bad...

I think I may have seen 3G and got all flustered...

"FITS ALL NEW 3G IPODS"

Sorry about that.

CmdrLaForge
Dec 30, 2003, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
did you not know apple was using 2 G4s 1.42s a year ago? whats the fastest G4 we have now a year Later?1.33?? you guys are saying you are just happy as can be to keep going on and on with no progress? either you are young, naive or hate progress. G4 was spanked by all other cpu makers a long time ago. read some benches or go do something like play UT2003 or Halo and perhaps you will find out how slow that G4 you love so much is. Apple has the best software but why is it they have less then 5% market????ill tell you why they are still trying to cram slow G4's down our throat. I would think most buyers spending close to 2 grand( imac) want a little more then a 1.25 g4. spin it all you want, even spit out the megahertz myth if you want but the truth is G4 is way way behind. sure its all you need for internet or viewing that next box of cereal but this is about selling computers and slow computers dont sell, though apple has done everything under the sun to make those slow G4's attractive such as super cool styling. Just as many waited for G4 to get the boot out of powermac there are many like me waiting for the G4 to get the boot out of imac.

Hi,

I have to agree in principal that the iMac is not up to date and we need to get the G5 into the iMac very soon at speeds above 2GHz. Recent GPU is also required.

I cannot agree to your statement that we are in principal at the same speeds than a year ago, because the dual G4s have been used in the PowerMacs that are today at dual 2GHz. Yes the fastest G4 is now 1.33GHz, but thats not the top of the line as a year ago. We are at dual 2GHz G5s. Thats where we are. If you cannot afford them - your problem.

But again, I agree - the iMac has to move soon to G5.

Cheers

NeatGekko
Jan 2, 2004, 02:41 AM
MINI IPOD FACTS:

They are going to be HD based but loaded with RAM so it won't skip.

They will ship with multiple colors.

Small...comes with an armband for runners.

NOT $100!!! Are you kidding me! isights aren't even that cheap! This is Apple we are talking about! Its gunna be good. Look for the price to drop around $250.

And now for the size: NO 2BG (weak) Apple will show off a nice 4.5 GB in multiple colors. 2 models in muli color is a nightmare. They will have the one size only.

G5 Speeds:

YUP! You guessed it...3GHZ!!!

I know this...its a fact, just accept it.

Pirate_Will
Jan 3, 2004, 08:52 AM
NeatGekko you are posting all over the place on macrumors and you dont seem to ever want to justify yourself.
So i will ask, how do you know this stuff?

Just give me some logical argument to back up your statements and i would certainly leave you alone.
I think its nonsense myself, what would mac have to gain by introducing an mp3 player with a price and spec only just lower than the current models? That would just take sales from the current ipod. You dismiss a 2GB because it is so small, but some of the best selling players (which apple currently doesnt have anything to compete with) are small capacity solid state players.
Look at pretty much every other mp3 player brand, they usually have a HDD based player and a solid state one (phillips, creative, iriver, rio).
Apple could release a generic flash player with a pretty shell and everyone would buy one because they have built an excellent reputation with the ipod, so why wouldnt they build their own and release it?

Sorry for the rant, but its getting irritating seeing your psychic predictions with no substance :p

~Shard~
Jan 3, 2004, 10:29 AM
I agree. To be making the bold claims that you are posting here, I think it's reasonable to ask for some sort of substance to back up your claims. "I just know" or "there was a leak" or "I can't tell you right now" simply does not cut it.

If you went on these threads and said, "I THINK this is what MIGHT happen", then that would be different, but since you're claiming what you're saying is gospel and 100% absolute fact, I think it is reasonable to ask for more information before anyone takes you seriously.

Please back up your claims, provide us with some more substantial information and the members of this forum might take you a little more seriously. If you do not provide more information, avoid these questions by saying, "That's all I can say for now", or simply ignore this post, I can gaurantee you that most members will see that as a sure sign that you are indeed not as informed as you claim to be, and your credibility will be next to zero.

spook
Jan 3, 2004, 11:03 AM
I for one, support what Don't Hurt me is saying

How can you take pride in buying products that contain hardware that is half the speed of what i in the PC world at TWICE the cost?

A few comments about the G4 being good enough, maybe it is, but that if you was in the market for buying a computer would you buy a lesser spec machine for more money, it doesnt make sense unless you a either a Mac fanatic or need a Mac for a specific reason.

mmmm, Macs are one of the few machines that make profits? unless you are a shareholder then why is that such good news, if you want to applaud their increasing balance sheet rather then have a good price performance then just send them some cash, ye I'd like to see them make masses of profit, just don't like to be forking out for a iBook for the same amount of money that I could buy a Widescreen, 64mb Graphics Card, top of the range processor and DVD burner PC laptop

The G5 is where the consumer machines should be and the Pro should be a G6, consumers (normally) want to be getting a good deal and value for money, like I said I was after a iBook, but failed to get one now I am going to wait a few more month not for cost reasons but I don't like paying full whack for yesterdays technology, a reason Macs were doing poorer and poorer everywhere, they need to continue with recent progress and build and build quickly to stop the joke they where becoming

narco
Jan 3, 2004, 11:10 AM
I know this is Apple, but to be consistent with the other iPod prices I don't see how they'll price the new "mini-Pod" at $250 when the 10gb is only $50 more. $199 seems more like it, and it stays within the $100 difference between the different sizes.

~Shard~
Jan 3, 2004, 11:31 AM
Originally posted by spook
The G5 is where the consumer machines should be and the Pro should be a G6

I agree, but you have to realize that these things take time. We are only just now getting out of the hole Motorola dug for us, (i.e. slow progression/advancement), and are slowly getting into the IBM world. Updates will be more frequent and more impressive now, but you need to have some patience. The G5 iMac will come out, but probably not for a few more months, closer to the release of the G5 PowerBook in summer 2004. And G6 PMs, well, I don't know when this will happen - there is a lot of room to grow in the current G5s, especially with 90nm, etc., so I don't think Apple will brand a G6 anytime soon.

So have patience. You seem to be the type of person who will always be wanting the next best thing as soon as possible, when that is simply not realistic, as there are many other factors that have to be considered. You no doubt made comments like this when the G4s came out - "why doesn't the consumer line move from G3s to the G4s?!", you are making the same comment now, and will no doubt make the same comment when the G6s are released - "the iMac is crippled with a slow 3 GHz G5, come on Apple, move to the G6 already!" Patience is a virtue. :cool:

spook
Jan 3, 2004, 12:16 PM
You, me and the people on here maybe Patient, but everyone else is going to be going for the best speed/technology for the price, non Mac people arnt going to wait months for the G5 to go into a Imac, and I don't think its good enough for the Macs to be as fast as any PC, they have to be a lot faster to be bought by non Mac people, with the best graphics cards and games ported over, the last is never going to happen, but then Macs will never be more a niche product for the same reason.

There is no reason why the imacs where they are except that they are purposefully crippled to keep a balance between consumer and pro lines, except the problem is bargain PC consumer lines are a match all except the top of the line mac pro machines

NeatGekko
Jan 3, 2004, 02:27 PM
I see now that I am going to get no respect for the information I have, if I don't at least hint on how I get it. I will admit now, to being a lowly apple store employ. I hope nobody expects me to reveal which one...for crying out loud! However, I will say it happens to be close to MR. Jobs heart. Cheers

Dont Hurt Me
Jan 3, 2004, 02:44 PM
well lets just hope Apple doesnt hear about you or the next thing you will know is you will be selling Pc's and i wouldnt wish that on anyone.

~Shard~
Jan 3, 2004, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by spook
You, me and the people on here maybe Patient, but everyone else is going to be going for the best speed/technology for the price, non Mac people arnt going to wait months for the G5 to go into a Imac, and I don't think its good enough for the Macs to be as fast as any PC, they have to be a lot faster to be bought by non Mac people, with the best graphics cards and games ported over, the last is never going to happen, but then Macs will never be more a niche product for the same reason.

There is no reason why the imacs where they are except that they are purposefully crippled to keep a balance between consumer and pro lines, except the problem is bargain PC consumer lines are a match all except the top of the line mac pro machines

Just wanted to clarify, I wasn't disagreeing with you at all, just making a point. :cool:

NeatGekko
Jan 3, 2004, 03:12 PM
Thank you for your concern, but I am fairly confident(with all factors being wieghed in) that my job is not in jeopardy. If I was worried about that I wouldn't have posted, would I have? A lot of the information I have given isn't of a grossly specific nature either.(as stated by several forum goers;) ) Maybe if I had posted pictures and a photocopy of the price sheet I would be in a position to be worried. Also, this information was not specifically given to or "oeverheard" by any one employee. :) Doubt they will fire the whole staff because of this post. Hopefully this gives credit to the information I have posted, albeit not being that specific. Cheers

SeaFox
Jan 3, 2004, 09:08 PM
Originally posted by NeatGekko
I see now that I am going to get no respect for the information I have, if I don't at least hint on how I get it.

Yeah, that's called accountability. :rolleyes: On the net you can't just spout off a bunch of stuff as facts without sources to back you up (unless said statements are common knowledge or easily verifyable by readers). This is how serious forums work, as opposed to the news-article ones on Yahoo where everything is the conservatives or liberals fault (even natural disasters).

I admit now, to being a lowly apple store employ. I hope nobody expects me to reveal which one...for crying out loud! However, I will say it happens to be close to MR. Jobs heart. Cheers

It is pretty comon knowledge that "lowly Apple store employees" are not given information about upcoming product releases. Note that whenever a major product is announced, lots of times the only place to get it is Apple.com.

Also, note that rumors are posted as news articles here, not as posts in forums about articles. So the real informants are submitting their stuff to Arn directly. Not revealing their "identity" (if you could call a username that) to the entire readership.

If you're really about becoming a serious source here you need to send stuff in and build up a reliability reputation with MacRumors, not post it in forums. All that shows is lack of true concern for your anonymity (since IPs are logged on posts) and a desire for personal glory.

:o

/soapbox

Invizzible
Jan 3, 2004, 09:34 PM
I'll be very happy if they finally fix the problem in iDVD that causes the audio to get a fraction of a second ahead of the video when you make a DVD that's more than approx. 30-40 minutes long. If that fix is the ONLY thing they announce, I'll be happy. I use iDVD mostly to make DVD's of my band's gigs, and there's nothing more annoying than having the audio off from the video for a musical performance. It's also not helping me convert people to Mac. When PC friends watch the DVD's, they're impressed up until the point where the audio slips, and then they think it's pretty lame.