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arn
May 21, 2002, 11:57 PM
Thinksecret reports (http://www.thinksecret.com/features/ipodwindows.html) on revived rumors of a PC version of the iPod:

Intially, sources said, Apple planned to release a Windows-only iPod at Macworld Tokyo this year. Reportedly, this version would include Windows firmware, filesystem support, and a Windows updater/formatter.

The rumors of a PC version of the iPod date back to February 2002 (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2002/04/20020428180318.shtml) which was reportedly being developed at the same time as the 10gig iPod which was released at MacWorld Tokyo (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2002/03/20020320224415.shtml)

Thinksecret also hints towards more "non-computer" devices in the works.

eyelikeart
May 22, 2002, 12:43 AM
I think iPod for windows would be an excellent way to cross the Mac/PC barrier...

just think....how impressed consumers would be with Apple iPod....they may get curious to jump ship on a new iMac! :D

mc68k
May 22, 2002, 01:59 AM
That's the idea. I know plenty of pc-lovers who'd love to get their hands on one.

But I don't know if it's plausible or not with all the cross-platform expenditures and development.

iPod=iTunes=Apple

Change one, and you'd have to change them all.

aafuss1
May 22, 2002, 02:20 AM
ok, Well Apple would needc its own MP3 app for win and a installer- hint why won't apple switch to .msi setuspd? Installer vise for win,. has been negelected since 2000/2001.

irmongoose
May 22, 2002, 03:41 AM
okay.. I always thought this would be helpful for Apple, but recently, two of my friends saw the ipod... and they loved it so much that... when they bought the ipod, they took along with them a new imac. Just for the sake that no windows machine can have true sync with the ipod like iTunes does.

You see what I'm getting at here? The iPod itself is bringing people over. And now if they release this Windows version, all its going to do is stop making the Windows guys from getting a Mac.

So, APPLE! WRONG MOVE! (if its true, that is.. hehe :D )





irmongoose

Macboom
May 22, 2002, 05:00 AM
point is that apple is reconsidering a full blown Ipod for windoze version ..they might release an Ipod that works on windows but not a version of its own ..thank god for that !!

mind u i prefer apple not to do a windows version at all for the same reason mentioned above loads of customers want an Ipod and when they find out they need a mac for it to work to it's fullest potential they end up buying a MAC :-))

well can't go better then can it ?
so apple stick with plan A .

redAPPLE
May 22, 2002, 05:30 AM
i agree.

if a peecee can use the ipod... then why would one want to buy a more expensive (although cooler, "faster", better) apple product.

i dont get it apple. i would suggest, as long as i dont get it... dont give it to the peecee users.

McFreggle
May 22, 2002, 05:46 AM
There are allready a bunch of alternatives; software that DO make the iPod work under Windows, so why shouldn't Apple take the profits on these ones themselves?

The only thing they can do is make clear 'you get a much better user experience with your iPod in its native environment: a Mac'

k.

Mr. Anderson
May 22, 2002, 07:42 AM
Considering the sales seen since the announcement of the first iPod this is a great move by Apple. Allowing anyone with a computer to be able to use an iPod is only going to help Apple in the long run. It shouldn't be a Mac only device, and that's what most people were complaining about at first, now a lot of you want it to be only on a Mac? Let Apple prosper as much as possible, the bottom line is it will help us all.

eyelikeart
May 22, 2002, 08:42 AM
Originally posted by dukestreet
Allowing anyone with a computer to be able to use an iPod is only going to help Apple in the long run.

that's exactly what I'm talking about! :D

exposure...curiosity...it will happen...people will be intrigued by Apple's work on it...and I strongly feel that it would only bring people over to "our" side...persay...

leaving it as an Apple only product only limits it's possibilities...and if that's the case...people aren't going to make any moves at all...

they need something to bite at them....maybe this could be a huge sting? :D

oranjdisc
May 22, 2002, 08:44 AM
I believe money is the issue here folks.

Think beyond platform wars, and notice that the iPod is widely considered the best mp3 player around, and Apple could sell MILLIONS if they offered them to Windows users. Apple could make some serious money.

Centris Fan
May 22, 2002, 08:46 AM
Firewire for the PC seems close to withering on the vine for PCs. The viability of Firewire is important for Mac users in that more PC users using Firewire means more devices built for Firewire. If PC users need to get a Firewire PCI card to use an iPod, Apple could get more profits to make nicer Macs and help ensure a better life for Firewire. No time like the present.

eyelikeart
May 22, 2002, 08:51 AM
Originally posted by Centris Fan
Firewire for the PC seems close to withering on the vine for PCs. The viability of Firewire is important for Mac users in that more PC users using Firewire means more devices built for Firewire. If PC users need to get a Firewire PCI card to use an iPod, Apple could get more profits to make nicer Macs and help ensure a better life for Firewire. No time like the present.

this is the reason (well, not the only) why I feel that one day we will see more than cross-platform compatibility....

I can't help but to think there will be a point reached where Macs & PCs can be converged to work together much more efficiently than they do now...

flame me if u want...but X on a PC is not a completely unfathomable idea..

the point is...if consumers see how well the OS runs on their systems...imagine how it must seem to them on a Mac?

ok...I'm getting ready for the flame retardent suit for that "X on a PC" comment...even though it's not completely relevant to the topic ;)

ntg
May 22, 2002, 09:00 AM
Originally posted by eyelikeart


this is the reason (well, not the only) why I feel that one day we will see more than cross-platform compatibility....

I can't help but to think there will be a point reached where Macs & PCs can be converged to work together much more efficiently than they do now...

...actually, didn't they start along the lines of a 'brave new world' scenario with CHRP (common hardware reference platform) chips, or am I just slightly confused...?:confused:

drastik
May 22, 2002, 09:57 AM
I think this is a great move for apple. On one condition. Apple must develop a PC version of iTunes, and charge PC users for it. That way, they see the great functionality, the ease of use, the cool factor personality, and realize, iftheir next box is a mac, its all free and seamless, just like thier precious IE. ITs like handing out free heroin samples, people get hooked:D

davidf
May 22, 2002, 10:08 AM
they won't charge Windoze users for Mac apps, as that's unfair. Do windoze charge us for IE or Outlook........... ? no.

i like your style, but it ain't gonna happen like that.

eyelikeart
May 22, 2002, 10:19 AM
Originally posted by davidf
they won't charge Windoze users for Mac apps, as that's unfair. Do windoze charge us for IE or Outlook........... ? no.

i like your style, but it ain't gonna happen like that.

I'm not talking about running Mac applications on a PC...just the OS...

if Apple could get into licensing X to PC manufacturers...they could get into some serious money-making...

I don't know...someone bring this back to topic please... ;)

Mr. Anderson
May 22, 2002, 10:31 AM
I just spoke to a coworker who has an iPod who doesn't own a mac. He says that there are a lot of hacks for getting iPod to work on the PC, which is great. But by Apple supporting it directly for the PC, everyone, joe User, will be able to buy one. That's the big step.

You can bet that the sales will improve dramatically. Good for Apple!

eyelikeart
May 22, 2002, 10:54 AM
Originally posted by dukestreet
I just spoke to a coworker who has an iPod who doesn't own a mac. He says that there are a lot of hacks for getting iPod to work on the PC, which is great. But by Apple supporting it directly for the PC, everyone, joe User, will be able to buy one. That's the big step.

You can bet that the sales will improve dramatically. Good for Apple!

thank u duke...

I don't understand why it's so hard to see this as a step in a positive direction for Apple as a company...

why are u guys so afraid of crossing over?! why keep everything bundled for Apple only? the only way they are going to grow is if they branch out...

jamesbhai
May 22, 2002, 11:11 AM
This would be a great cash cow for Apple. All the profits go right back into R&D, which will only benefit the rest of the Apple world. As much as it'd sting to see peecee software on an iPod, it's still peecee users purchasing Apple hardware. If they like that, they are more likely to try a mac when their cow quits giving milk.

mc68k
May 22, 2002, 11:17 AM
Originally posted by eyelikeart
I don't understand why it's so hard to see this as a step in a positive direction for Apple as a company...

why are u guys so afraid of crossing over?! why keep everything bundled for Apple only? the only way they are going to grow is if they branch out...
I just don't like the idea of my perfect white iPod box having a waving, multi-colored, Windows flag on it. Guess it's just me, but I like to punish all the PC lovers I know with the iPod. Show them that they're "missing out" on something better. They always do that to me.

Apple can grow without branching out. Look at Microsoft, they din't branch out and look where they're at…

I must admit, it would be a positive direction, becuase the market is there on the PC side. I wouldn't mind a "digital hub" device not working on a Mac, but the OS is going to far. We already saw in the mid-90's how much that idea sucked.

elgruga
May 22, 2002, 11:39 AM
I dont want to see Apple "grow" like M$ has grown - we dont need another world domination co., thanks.

Ipod works on the PC, so Apple, just make a PC link software thingy and leave it at that.

A Windose only iPod? NO chance.

The peecee guys dont like firewire because it is fast and works - these are the jerks that still have a floppy drive!

You want an Ipod, peecee boy? Well buy a Mac.

And for the record, the iPod is not a huge bottom-liner for Apple - its a good little profit, but its not going to make or break the company.

It sure works as a brand-recognition device, though!

Now what ever happened to the.....(drum roll).....apologies to everyone..................IWALK...............!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

eyelikeart
May 22, 2002, 12:10 PM
Originally posted by mc68k

I just don't like the idea of my perfect white iPod box having a waving, multi-colored, Windows flag on it. Guess it's just me, but I like to punish all the PC lovers I know with the iPod. Show them that they're "missing out" on something better. They always do that to me.

Apple can grow without branching out. Look at Microsoft, they din't branch out and look where they're at…

first off...nothing is perfect...period.

second...Apple is making great feats presently...but when it comes down to it...95% of computer users are completely Windows...any way of getting an Apple product to them is an incredible victory for Apple...it means they are giving Apple a chance...

third...there is no third...I just couldn't have 2 though...he he he ;) ;)

cryptochrome
May 22, 2002, 12:10 PM
The iPod is two things - an excellent if expensive portable music player, and a data wallet. The latter capability has not found much use yet, but it has great potential that I think apple is planning to exploit. The caveat is that your data wallet should be able to talk to any machine you want to use that data on. The catch is that there is no official windows software for the music aspect of the ipod, and firewire is not all that common on PCs.

The point? They should make iTunes for windows - because the best mp3 player on the market will help push the adoption of firewire as a common high-speed data port on PCs, possibly even as a standard. With a common way to connect, the iPod will become a more useful machine. As apple comes out with alternative uses for the iPod's capabilities, they'll be able to use them on any machine with the appropriate apple software (which btw they can charge for - nobody said the windows version of iTunes has to be free).

eyelikeart
May 22, 2002, 12:30 PM
I'm telling u...

the best thing Apple can do to get a larger market share it to cater to the PC world...

not selling out...just give them a taste of what Apple can do...

maybe I should reinstate my Anti-Zealot status? :D

mc68k
May 22, 2002, 12:56 PM
Originally posted by cryptochrome
The caveat is that your data wallet should be able to talk to any machine you want to use that data on. The catch is that there is no official windows software for the music aspect of the ipod, and firewire is not all that common on PCs.

The point? They should make iTunes for windows - because the best mp3 player on the market will help push the adoption of firewire as a common high-speed data port on PCs, possibly even as a standard.
Well. first, theres the issue of formats. HFS+ talking to NTFS and FAT 16/32? That would require more than just a simple iTunes look alike, that would require something like MacDrive. Seems tom me, without something shoirt of a miracle (which Apple is sometimes good at), the iPod is not going to be cross platfrom— just a monogamous relationship with one OS.

I would not cry if Windows got iPod in fact, I might be glad that people can experince some of the joy that I have. Your right, eye', nothing's perfect. :) Take the punches and roll with 'em.

bellboy
May 22, 2002, 01:22 PM
I honestly think that Apple can show Windows users that the grass IS greener on this side of the fence. By continuing to develop more devices that can all comunicate with eachother, I think Apple can show a Windows user everything works with each other.... I think if they do this, they can get Windows users to migrate over to the Mac universe gradually.

One way to do this, I think, is by leveraging AirPort a lot more, and I think with the introduction of Rendezvous, we're going to start to see this.

Something that's been on my mind for a while is an Apple car stereo. Think about it... as long as your car is within range of the base station, with rendezvous, it would just show up in iTunes - just like an iPod. You could create and manage playlists, add and delete songs. Sweet Jesus, that would be awesome. Add a firewire port in the front of the stereo, and now you can update and transfer music or files to and from your iPod.

Then we've got QuickTime 6. Now I haven't used the beta yet, but from what I've heard, it rocks. Think of the possibilities with some sort of set-top box. You could have your entire mp3's library streamed from your Mac. You could record live TV, and then save the recordings to you Mac. Hell, you could then send those videos to someone, or post them online via your iTools account.

Devices like this are what I think Apple should be focusing on. "Non-computer" devices that really make the Mac the center of your digital lifestyle.

Edit: Let me clarify a bit more...

The stereo would have an interal hard drive... just like the iPod. Ideally it would have a radio, equalizer controls, a large screen, an intiative interface, and all of the standard features found on other mid-to-high range car stereos. I'd like to have a firewire port in the front of the unit so I can plug in my iPod and sync with it, or transfer files to and from it (so I can take a playlist with me while I'm shopping or something like that). I'm guessing that the unit would have to be removable so people could plug it into their Mac and upload and manage music on it... but idealy, you would have to do this, and it could all be done wirelessly.

elgruga
May 22, 2002, 03:01 PM
My iPod IS perfect. Thats it - no argument please. Its mine, I paid for it, I love it, I get to say if its perfect or not.

If your iPod isnt perfect, tough.

I LIKE being part of a 5% market share company - Apple is v.cool, like Leica cameras, like old Volvos, like good books, like not watching TV.

I dont want Apple to be doing stuff to attract PC people - if they had any sense they would use an Apple without having to be sold on the idea.
A lot of people do use both platforms, and some of us use more than two.

Mac OS 9 is still the most secure html server platform, even if it isnt super-fast, its still fast enough. And for all practical purposes, it becomes more and more unhackable.
Linux is still the best option for low-cost, people intensive development.
And also the best option for custom firewalls, mail servers, etc.

OS X is the king OS of the future. And the future is only a moment away.

Who cares about M$ windose?

Apple can survive and prosper without becoming like M$. In fact, if they did all this porting everything to Wintel, then what would be the point of Apple at all?

As I said, my iPod IS perfect. If yours aint, thats too bad for you.

And if they do iTunes for Windows, they will LOSE market share, not gain it.

dongmin
May 22, 2002, 03:05 PM
Yes the iPod should be Windows-compatible, so that Apples sells more of them and to use it to spread the Word.

But also yes to those who say the iPod should serve as an incentive for the Windows people to switch over.

How do we do this? My solution would be to add more functionality to the iPod, like adding photo/video storage and playback, but then limit the functionality on the PC side.

It's a common strategy by developers who write software for both Mac and PC. Often the PC versions have more functionality.

So make the iPod officially windows-compatible and maybe write an iPod Lite for those users. But for the Mac version, make it work with Quicktime 6, Mail/Address, iChat, Sherlock 2, etc. and make it so that it syncs seemlessly with all this just like with iTunes.

"Yes, you can buy an iPod for your PC, but if you buy a Mac, you'll get so much more than just a nifty little mp3 player."

eyelikeart
May 22, 2002, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by dongmin
So make the iPod officially windows-compatible and maybe write an iPod Lite for those users. But for the Mac version, make it work with Quicktime 6, Mail/Address, iChat, Sherlock 2, etc. and make it so that it syncs seemlessly with all this just like with iTunes.

I would imagine that doing this would only cost Apple more money then it's worth to make work...

just stick to the basics...make it cross-compatible with Mac & PC....simplicity...the best cure for some problems... ;)

lucs
May 22, 2002, 04:06 PM
sure Apple will have increased sales...

sure pc users will be more likely to try out the mac platform

sure it's better in the long run...but i am gonna miss the feeling of satisfaction that i had when looking at a peecee user drowning in his drool for the ipod finally being able to get one.....:(

SPG
May 22, 2002, 04:30 PM
Since the iPod is already unofficially PC compatible by means of a variety of hacks and free apps it seems that Apple introducing a PC only version would be silly.
If the ultimate goal is to get more mac users, then a PC version should be avoided.
"Why not make a PC one with less functionality?" Who want's it, and duh, it already exists as a standard iPod. On a PC the iPod doesn't auto synch to iTunes since there is no iTunes, and as far as I know there is no contacts import available either.
Apple should continue selling the iPod as is to continue gaining converts to the Mac, and should at least acknowledge that there is limited functionality for the PC, although not wholeheartedly endorsed.
PC users who really want one will buy one, and once they have one, who knows maybe they'll get a Mac too.

Macmaniac
May 22, 2002, 07:44 PM
I would like to see a PC version but it should still be mac compatible, I think of the iPod as a gateway to the mac world. Maybe with each PC iPod should come with a note saying how there is much more in the apple world than iPod and that they shoudl consider buying a mac:)

SPG
May 22, 2002, 07:46 PM
Originally posted by Macmaniac
I would like to see a PC version but it should still be mac compatible, I think of the iPod as a gateway to the mac world. Maybe with each PC iPod should come with a note saying how there is much more in the apple world than iPod and that they shoudl consider buying a mac:)
maybe a handwritten note from Steve?

suzerain
May 22, 2002, 08:39 PM
I have a couple of comments:

(1)
I honestly hope the ThinkSecret article is baseless, because even considering marketing a PC-only iPod that didn't work on Macs is completely idiotic.

Then, you're telling users, "Get a Mac and your iPod works better. Except, you have to buy another iPod, too." Talk about guaranteeing people WON'T switch to Macs. Just the fact that they even thought that was a good idea is scary.

(2)
To everyone in this forum who is advocating making a Windows iPod: you're completely neglecting the costs! Do you really want Apple wasting its money on developing Apps for Windows?! It just takes time away from being able to create great Mac apps.

I, for one, would rather that Apple leave the device as something to be coveted by Windows users, rather than waste development time on making great stuff for Windows.

dongmin
May 23, 2002, 07:01 AM
Originally posted by suzerain
I have a couple of comments:

To everyone in this forum who is advocating making a Windows iPod: you're completely neglecting the costs! Do you really want Apple wasting its money on developing Apps for Windows?! It just takes time away from being able to create great Mac apps.



The idea is that Apple would make its money back, and then some, from increased sales. If they do it right, they could hit the motherload. Microsoft has sold something like 3-4 million Xboxes; Sony 30 mil P. A couple mil ipods worldwide doesn't seem far-fetched. You could probably get that many in Asia alone.

SPG
May 23, 2002, 12:45 PM
I don't think that the iPod, despite it's hefty pricetag, is a huge profit source for Apple. I'm sure they're making money on it, by I've heard reports here before that the markup is low. The iPod does have a lot of value however as a symbol of Apple's coolness and proof that the Mac is a better platform than the PC. I doubt that Apple would make the kind of money from the PC side that you think considering that firewire isn't a major part of the wintel world and there is a lot of competition from cheaper although lesser quality MP3 players.
BTW, Xbox and PS2 have ridiculously slim margins and have recently been discounted to help win platform share...perhaps relegating them to "loss leader" status in hopes of making future profits on software sales.

cryptochrome
May 23, 2002, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by suzerain
To everyone in this forum who is advocating making a Windows iPod: you're completely neglecting the costs! Do you really want Apple wasting its money on developing Apps for Windows?! It just takes time away from being able to create great Mac apps.


You mean like Quicktime? It was the first desktop video, and the best architecture - but lack of a good windows version (and of streaming capabilities and codecs) nearly resigned it to obscurity.

Apple stands to benefit a great deal from being able to use the same peripherals, protocols, and even software as windows machines - because it makes migrating to macs that much cheaper and easier. Being so separate from the windows world may have helped Apple hold its marketshare, but it also kept it from growing. Beyond that, Apple is not just macs anymore. Apple's in a good place right now with OS X, high-value machinery, and a good design. They should take advantage of it.