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MacRumors
Jan 5, 2004, 08:37 PM
CNet provides from notes from the Moscone Center -- the location of the 2004 MacWorld San Francisco Expo:

Security during set-up for the show is tight, as always, with Apple's booth obscured by a huge black tarp on all sides. Posted at the main entrance are two rather generic banners for the iPod. Tucked neatly behind each of the 15-foot banners, however, is another banner that is rolled up and whose contents are obscured from view, presumably a banner containing details of at least some of what Jobs has up his sleeve.

Despite the security, at least one person claims to have seen part of the floor with a report that Microsoft has banners and materials for Microsoft Office 2004 and Virtual PC 7.0. Also noted are a series of Macs dating back to the original Macintosh... perhaps in celebration of the Macintosh's 20th anniversary. While this can not be confirmed, similar information is echoed by 4osx.com

Dr. Srinidhi Varadarajan -- of Virginia Tech/'Big Mac' fame has also been sighted in one of hotels and will reportedly be speaking at the MacWorld Expo Keynote, according to one anonymous tipster.

Meanwhile, MacCityNet.it offers a photo gallery from Saturday and Sunday in and around the Moscone Center along with some scenic San Francisco shots

stoid
Jan 5, 2004, 08:40 PM
GAHHH!!!!

14 more hours!!!!

I can't wait that long!!

AHHHHH!!!!

Macmaniac
Jan 5, 2004, 08:43 PM
OHH rolled up signs I can't wait!
I bet they are for MiniPods, or something really cool!

g30ffr3y
Jan 5, 2004, 08:46 PM
sounds awsome... i love the tension before the big events...

Mr.Hey
Jan 5, 2004, 08:51 PM
OMG OMG OMG!!!


I want to see pics of that long line of Macs, impressive it must be.

Freg3000
Jan 5, 2004, 08:52 PM
Seems like just some more confirmation of VPC 7 and Office. Soudns like a mini-iPod banner.....:) :) :)

counting the hours....

jZilla
Jan 5, 2004, 08:54 PM
I refuse to believe ANY PC luser gets this hyped about anything to do with their machine.

It's why I'd hate to see the entire world use Apple.

I admit it, I like being "unique" bar the like-minds that have the good sense to go Mac.

As long as my dual 2ghz G5 isn't announced as outdated and overpriced I'll be happy ;-)

crees!
Jan 5, 2004, 08:55 PM
Looks like I'm going to need some sleeping pills for tonight ;)

Dont Hurt Me
Jan 5, 2004, 08:59 PM
With the rumors of old macs being there i cant but think that they will introduce a new Mac, maybe the New Macintosh a consumer oriented mac but not all in one like imac but a consumer powermac G5 if you will that can do it all, Music,Tv,Net,Video,Gaming,Computing and more. We have been hoping for this for a long time. This is what iam hoping for. mini ipods are nice but nothing to get excited about, a G5 xserve again thats nice too but again nothing to get excited about because we know thats the next step for the Xserve. Faster G5 powermacs , well we know they are around the corner. I hope im not wrong but my guess is a all new model of computer that will be for the highend consumer that will have the power and expansion to do it all. Maybe this is just a dream but i hope not.

skymac
Jan 5, 2004, 09:02 PM
Its septembre 15 all over again, that being the first apple event i ever truly looked forward to. Damn i dont want to go to school tommorow. Ah well i'll be able to watch the keynote when i get home.But still. I can't wait to see what steve has up his sleeve.

kjdenison
Jan 5, 2004, 09:03 PM
I really have no use for a mini ipod, I REALLLLY hope that we see updated regular ipods. A huge update would be nice on them. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH CANT WAITTTTTT!!!!!!

g4pismo
Jan 5, 2004, 09:05 PM
mmm.. mini ipod .. I am quite curious on the vpc performance on the g5 .. i won't be able to sleep

skymac
Jan 5, 2004, 09:06 PM
Although i have no use for a mini ipod since i've got a ten GB. I dont dee massive iPod in general updates however more built in stuff would be nice(ie built in voice recorder fm trensmitter/receiver but i dont think that will happen for a wile.In reality my biggest hope is for the longshot wich i hink is the PM g5 updates, i hope those can happen soon so my dad can get of my PB

Macmaniac
Jan 5, 2004, 09:06 PM
If they don't release miniPods some people are going to die, the tension is just that great!:D :cool: :eek:

kjdenison
Jan 5, 2004, 09:25 PM
what is that picture of the blue smiley face on the mac minute photos??? a new happy mac????

AidenShaw
Jan 5, 2004, 09:27 PM
Getting so hyped will only lead to depression when the real announcements fall short of the fantasies....

The reason we "PC people" don't get so worked up is that the machine is just a tool, just a part of our lives. Our self-identity is with other parts of our lives (work, hobbies, sports, family) - it's not tied up with a "brand-name experience" with the company that manufactured our computer (or, like Apple, assembled our computer out of commodity and 3rd party parts).

I'm thinking of an upgrade for my home PC, and I'm looking forward to Prescott. I don't need to take drugs to sleep while I'm waiting, though!

jero
Jan 5, 2004, 09:27 PM
i will be at work during the keynote. crap.

Kingsnapped
Jan 5, 2004, 09:34 PM
I'm so pumped to be part of the speedy 500 to be getting text updates from macteens.com...
otherwise that school day would have killed me.

x86isslow
Jan 5, 2004, 09:35 PM
Originally posted by Macrumors

Dr. Srinidhi Varadarajan has also been sited in one of hotels
sited eh?
sighted? seen?:D

ooh i can't wait.. too bad i'm in physics class tomorrow when the stevenote starts.:mad:

Dstreelm
Jan 5, 2004, 09:37 PM
i admit im new to apple, got my powerbook in august of 02. i was into computers before, but nothing like this. I've been freakin out for the past 2 weeks about this keynote, ive watched all of the events posted on apple's website, i cant sleep, im saving up money, and i dont even know what is going to be released, but i know im gonna want one. i live to hear steve speak, i cant wait for the part about the big mac (i go to virginia tech and helped build it...talk about cool!!!!!!)

and i agree, I LIKE BEING A MINORITY. sure, i want apple to prosper and have increased market share, but i like fighting the good fight (might have something to do with being a hippie and subscribing to The Nation) but i dont want every windows freak to turn to apple, it would ruin some of the mistique, it would turn something exotic like a Lotus into a run of the mill pinto (talking about the OS here, not proc. speed). and i like making windows people eat their words. and people who's generic arguement is "apple sucks" i like to see them play with my ipod and be speechless. i wont get the same enjoyment if apple were the majority

Dont Hurt Me
Jan 5, 2004, 09:39 PM
Originally posted by AidenShaw
Getting so hyped will only lead to depression when the real announcements fall short of the fantasies....

The reason we "PC people" don't get so worked up is that the machine is just a tool, just a part of our lives. Our self-identity is with other parts of our lives (work, hobbies, sports, family) - it's not tied up with a "brand-name experience" with the company that manufactured our computer (or, like Apple, assembled our computer out of commodity and 3rd party parts).

I'm thinking of an upgrade for my home PC, and I'm looking forward to Prescott. I don't need to take drugs to sleep while I'm waiting, though! Pc's suck sorry, no wonder you cant get excited, there isnt much to get excited about when your running Microcrap on Dell cheapo garbage. Macs are more then just a machine they have a heart and soul something you will never get out of Dell, Gateway, or the others that try to run microsuck software. Just look at the materials they make Pc's out of? ive seen better plastic from 7up bottles. you are barking up the wrong tree in the wrong place.

awulf
Jan 5, 2004, 09:41 PM
The tension is building up! I cant hold it any more!

I want a Mini-iPod!

13 hours 22 minutes until the MacWorld SF Keynote.

mackaikai
Jan 5, 2004, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by x86isslow
sited eh?
sighted? seen?:D

ooh i can't wait.. too bad i'm in physics class tomorrow when the stevenote starts.:mad:


that's what 'ditching' is for ;o

latergator116
Jan 5, 2004, 09:43 PM
Maybe I will become "sick" tomorow so I can watch the keynote live.:p

dongmin
Jan 5, 2004, 09:43 PM
Originally posted by AidenShaw
The reason we "PC people" don't get so worked up is that the machine is just a tool, just a part of our lives. This is the biggest bunch of crock I've ever heard. What about all the Linux geeks, over-clockers, home-built-pc-gurus, and "My-PC-Does-2000-Frames-Per-Second" video game junkies? There's just as much overblown hype and false worship on the PC side. This is a rumors forum. This does not represent the great majority of Mac users. Please people, get a life. Get some perspective.

latergator116
Jan 5, 2004, 09:45 PM
Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
Pc's suck sorry, no wonder you cant get excited, there isnt much to get excited about when your running Microcrap on Dell cheapo garbage. Macs are more then just a machine they have a heart and soul something you will never get out of Dell, Gateway, or the others that try to run microsuck software. Just look at the materials they make Pc's out of? ive seen better plastic from 7up bottles. you are barking up the wrong tree in the wrong place.

He won't understand...it's a mac thing.;)

MrMacMan
Jan 5, 2004, 09:46 PM
Originally posted by awulf
The tension is building up! I cant hold it any more!

I want a Mini-iPod!

13 hours 22 minutes until the MacWorld SF Keynote.

Jeez Man.

Take a breath.


We aren't expecting...

DUAL 3.0 GHZ G6's TOMORROW!
THAT'S RIGHT DUAL 3.0 GHZ G6 TOMORROW! PREPARE BABY!

No. ;)

[I'm not there right now...;) ]

Freg3000
Jan 5, 2004, 09:50 PM
Originally posted by MrMacman
Jeez Man.

Take a breath.


We aren't expecting...

DUAL 3.0 GHZ G6's TOMORROW!
THAT'S RIGHT DUAL 3.0 GHZ G6 TOMORROW! PREPARE BABY!

No. ;)

[I'm not there right now...;) ]

Who are you NeatGekko?

Hopefully he is right....for his own sake...

Originally posted by MrMacman

If I am wrong I will eat my right hand.

IIvan
Jan 5, 2004, 09:51 PM
Waiting for Prescott eh

Im waiting for pigs to fly
:D

AidenShaw
Jan 5, 2004, 09:54 PM
Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
Just look at the materials they make Pc's out of? ive seen better plastic from 7up bottles.


Sorry, but my home system is made of heavy gauge aluminum, painted a dark charcoal with an aluminum/charcoal front.
http://arstechnica.com/reviews/1q00/cmatcs/whole.jpg

http://arstechnica.com/reviews/1q00/cmatcs/cmatcs-1.html

And, holy crap, my PC was using brushed aluminum 2 years before Apple switched from tacky plastic to the "newest" brushed aluminum....


You're really not aware of what's being sold on the other side, are you? Uninformed generalities aren't very effective in arguments.

jouster
Jan 5, 2004, 09:54 PM
Originally posted by IIvan
Waiting for Prescott eh

Im waiting for pigs to fly
:D

Not sure how long the pigs will take, but Prescott will be here in about three months.

Ling
Jan 5, 2004, 09:56 PM
I hate quoting Dubya...but...

BRING IT ON!

I understand everyone's getting antsy...but chill out on the Mac/PC bashing guys :-)

rodnarms
Jan 5, 2004, 09:59 PM
I'm going to walk into work tommorrow morning and proclaim 'Happy Mac Day' to all my collegues. Sure they are going to blink cluelessly and think I've lost it.

Wouldn't be the first time!

Oh, my night is going to be 'spent' blowing all my money downloading music from iTunes Store Canada!!!!!

PLEASE MAKE IT SO STEVE!

imaswitcheryeah
Jan 5, 2004, 10:03 PM
So.... just what is this banner??


Anyone?? Anyone?

IIvan
Jan 5, 2004, 10:03 PM
Not sure how long the pigs will take, but Prescott will be here in about three months.

Thats what they said last summer

Freg3000
Jan 5, 2004, 10:04 PM
Originally posted by imaswitcheryeah
So.... just what is this banner??


Anyone?? Anyone?

Thinking the exact same thing...I do believe it is not Apple-related though.

ZildjianKX
Jan 5, 2004, 10:04 PM
Ahh, bring on VPC 7... not being able to run PC programs on my G5 almost made me fail out of an engineering class last quarter...

And I don't care what anyone says, but the current version of Office on macs just sucks. I hope the new mac office really catches up with the PC version.

humangod
Jan 5, 2004, 10:06 PM
Originally posted by AidenShaw
Getting so hyped will only lead to depression when the real announcements fall short of the fantasies....

The reason we "PC people" don't get so worked up is that the machine is just a tool, just a part of our lives. Our self-identity is with other parts of our lives (work, hobbies, sports, family) - it's not tied up with a "brand-name experience" with the company that manufactured our computer (or, like Apple, assembled our computer out of commodity and 3rd party parts).

"I'm thinking of an upgrade for my home PC, and I'm looking forward to Prescott. I don't need to take drugs to sleep while I'm waiting, though!"

"The reason we "PC people" don't get so worked up is that the machine is just a tool, just a part of our lives."

just a tool? so are cars. why are there car nuts out there who live and breath cars?

so tell me. all the bmw nuts out there who have car clubs based soley on bmw's, and live and breathe everything bmw, and love to hear rumors of what might be coming out with the new m3, you're telling me they should not do that because they're just tools and they're name brands?

people have different hobbies. the people on this board are into apple computers. this is what they live and breathe. this IS their hobby. just because you don't see does not mean it's not something to get worked up over.

you sound like a pretty closed minded person.

"(or, like Apple, assembled our computer out of commodity and 3rd party parts)."

oh!! so you're telling me that pc manufacturers are different?! try looking in a dell computer. read what the brand names are on the different devices. same with compaq, sony, hp, gateway, emachines, they all do it.

"The reason we "PC people" don't get so worked up is that the machine is just a tool, just a part of our lives."

or the reason is that the pc world never innovates. there's nothing to get excited about.

remember back when amd and intel were competing to see who would get to the 1 GHz mark first? oh boy did the pc world keep it's eye on that. the tension at that time was just like it is when apple is about to produce something new. the thing is, nothing ever exciting happens in the pc world.

"I'm thinking of an upgrade for my home PC, and I'm looking forward to Prescott. I don't need to take drugs to sleep while I'm waiting, though!"

and apparently this is not your hobby so your opinion doesn't really matter!

Photorun
Jan 5, 2004, 10:07 PM
I prediect G7 Powerbooks running quad 990 processors at 5.8 THz!

Who posted that pic of that super ugly aluminum peecee? Ow my eyes, what junk, looks like something even a slag heap would reject as vomit.

Cool about the Microshaft Orface and VPC coming out, hate to do that dance with the devil but required at my job for many, tether to Orface for e-mail and an occasional Word thang is small price to pay for keeping a dept of Macs, M$ can keep making their crappy product for us for as long as they want if it keeps some places buying Macs (more R&D goes to Apple than to M$ for such things).

I'm so excited it'll be hard to sleep with thoughts of a 2 GB iPod, a potential home audio recording software as easy as iMovie, new XServes (actually have someone convinced to buy a rack of them IF and only IF they go G5), and of course one more thing...

humangod
Jan 5, 2004, 10:07 PM
Originally posted by rodnarms
I'm going to walk into work tommorrow morning and proclaim 'Happy Mac Day' to all my collegues. Sure they are going to blink cluelessly and think I've lost it.

Wouldn't be the first time!

Oh, my night is going to be 'spent' blowing all my money downloading music from iTunes Store Canada!!!!!

PLEASE MAKE IT SO STEVE!

ahaha! you people in canada want that store so bad, i'm starting to want it for you! i hope you get it!

Photorun
Jan 5, 2004, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by imaswitcheryeah
So.... just what is this banner??


Anyone?? Anyone?

Reminds me of an acid blotter I did in college... it was a good trip if I recall. Hmmm, iAcid?

gwuMACaddict
Jan 5, 2004, 10:11 PM
i'm GETTIN' EXCITED!!!

Dstreelm
Jan 5, 2004, 10:13 PM
DAMMMMMMMMMMMMMN yall gotta chill!!!!

look regardless of weather or not your a mac or pc person, you have to admit that nobody stays up until god knows when speculating about what bill gates is gonna release in his next speech!!!

part of the reason for this is that apple is far more secretive about its goings on. you can go to microsoft's website and find articles about what they are expected to release years in advance, on the otyher hand, apple never lets on what theyre gonna release, we have to infer from copyright and patent filings, who they've been hiring, what companies they buy. this naturally leads to more rampant speculation then in the PC world...and personally i like it, who doesnt like a suprise??

earlopogous
Jan 5, 2004, 10:15 PM
[i]Not sure how long the pigs will take, but Prescott will be here in about three months.
[/B]

I thought they were already using prescott? its really taking them a while then

latergator116
Jan 5, 2004, 10:15 PM
you can go to microsoft's website and find articles about what they are expected to release years in advance,

Well, in Longhorn's case, make that decades in advance.

humangod
Jan 5, 2004, 10:15 PM
Originally posted by AidenShaw
Sorry, but my home system is made of heavy gauge aluminum, painted a dark charcoal with an aluminum/charcoal front.
http://arstechnica.com/reviews/1q00/cmatcs/whole.jpg

http://arstechnica.com/reviews/1q00/cmatcs/cmatcs-1.html

And, holy crap, my PC was using brushed aluminum 2 years before Apple switched from tacky plastic to the "newest" brushed aluminum....


You're really not aware of what's being sold on the other side, are you? Uninformed generalities aren't very effective in arguments.

but look at how ugly that thing is. hell i can go get a used baby diaper and make a computer case that looks better. i don't care if you had a computer using a brushed metal case 2 years before apple, apple took its time to design a good looking brushed aluminum case.

NO pc manufacturer makes a decent looking computer (and i don't think a computer manufacturer made your case. it's aftermarket. you built your computer yourself, so your argument is NOT valid.). the only way you're going to get a tight looking computer is to build your own using a case that costs over a hundred dollars. or buy an alienware computer. dell won't sell you a good looking computer, compaq won't, hp won't, emachines definately won't.

LethalWolfe
Jan 5, 2004, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by AidenShaw
Sorry, but my home system is made of heavy gauge aluminum, painted a dark charcoal with an aluminum/charcoal front.
http://arstechnica.com/reviews/1q00/cmatcs/whole.jpg

http://arstechnica.com/reviews/1q00/cmatcs/cmatcs-1.html

And, holy crap, my PC was using brushed aluminum 2 years before Apple switched from tacky plastic to the "newest" brushed aluminum....


You're really not aware of what's being sold on the other side, are you? Uninformed generalities aren't very effective in arguments.


So, is that a Dell? A Gateway? Compaq mabye? Oh, what? It's a custom built rig? Never woulda guessed that. ;)

Compare an off the shelf Mac to an off the shelf PC (apples to apples if you will). The quality in case design, materials used, and fit & finish is night and day. That is one of the first things I noticed when I got my G4 almost 2 years ago.

There are some very cool looking, nice cases out there, it's just that none of the major PC makers (Dell, HP, Gateway, etc.,) use them. And, unfortunetly, because case manufacturers have to adhere to industry standards all the towers have, basically, the same dimentions and layout. I doubt you'll ever see something like the G5 on the PC side.


Lethal

jouster
Jan 5, 2004, 10:19 PM
Originally posted by earlopogous
I thought they were already using prescott? its really taking them a while then

Pentium Extreme edition is out. Prescott is expected soon.

Skull Leader
Jan 5, 2004, 10:19 PM
Originally posted by AidenShaw
I'm thinking of an upgrade for my home PC, and I'm looking forward to Prescott. I don't need to take drugs to sleep while I'm waiting, though!
That's good, since there aren't any drugs on this planet that will make you sleep THAT long without killing you...:D

Photorun
Jan 5, 2004, 10:21 PM
That peecee is Godawful ugly... please stop repeatedly showing it on this page, it hurts the eyes.

Love the gaping hole where the drive bay is at the top, very sexy.

[cough]

Stella
Jan 5, 2004, 10:21 PM
Somethings that will make us all very happy.

G5 PowerBooks and iTMS for everyone.

Originally posted by imaswitcheryeah
So.... just what is this banner??


Anyone?? Anyone?

Pirate_Will
Jan 5, 2004, 10:23 PM
Look i use a PC, it does pretty much what i want and i can get excited about all sorts of things for it. If you use a mac, good for you. I dont care what anyone uses, i had my reasons for picking PC, and they arent any better or worse than anyone elses. (in an ideal world open source would be straight forward enough for all, but that is besides the point).

SO please please, calm down guys, its gone 4am here and i just want to wait and see if anything interesting happens before i collapse (been saying that for hours).

As for the banner, either its nothing significant at all, or it would make sense to be a heavily web based product as it is using a smiley. Maybe Garage band is more closely affiliated with the web site www.garageband.com ? Link up the best artists from that to iTunes? and get money directly?
probably not though

humangod
Jan 5, 2004, 10:32 PM
Originally posted by Pirate_Will
Look i use a PC, it does pretty much what i want and i can get excited about all sorts of things for it. If you use a mac, good for you. I dont care what anyone uses, i had my reasons for picking PC, and they arent any better or worse than anyone elses. (in an ideal world open source would be straight forward enough for all, but that is besides the point).

SO please please, calm down guys, its gone 4am here and i just want to wait and see if anything interesting happens before i collapse (been saying that for hours).

As for the banner, either its nothing significant at all, or it would make sense to be a heavily web based product as it is using a smiley. Maybe Garage band is more closely affiliated with the web site www.garageband.com ? Link up the best artists from that to iTunes? and get money directly?
probably not though

"Look i use a PC, it does pretty much what i want and i can get excited about all sorts of things for it"

WOO HOO!!! Can't wait for that service pack 2 upgrade for windows xp!! that gets me so excited!!

and just to point this out to you. you're on a rumor site for apple computers with a bunch of mac fanatics. when someone on this board says something negative about the hype, or about the product, or about the people, or about the company, that person is going to stir up the pot.

you don't walk into an elvis convention and yell out, "Elvis sucks!! there's no reason to get all hyped up about elvis. my music is just as good as elvis' music!!" and then tell everyone in there to calm down. it won't happen.

coolbreeze
Jan 5, 2004, 10:33 PM
Arn, will the WAP version be updated? I can hold my phone underneath the table during my meetings (ALL DAY) tomorrow.
;)

geerlingguy
Jan 5, 2004, 10:37 PM
Originally posted by skymac
Its septembre 15 all over again, that being the first apple event i ever truly looked forward to. Damn i dont want to go to school tommorow. Ah well i'll be able to watch the keynote when i get home.But still. I can't wait to see what steve has up his sleeve.

Same feeling... but wait! I just looked at my schedule... FREE PERIOD DURING KEYNOTE!!! Yay! I can watch—oh, wait—my school has peecees without QuickTime—shucks. Still, I keep refreshing Internet Explorer throughout the period on Apple.com :D

IIvan
Jan 5, 2004, 10:38 PM
He's right- we just get our jollies from poking fun at PC users in a place where MOST everyone agrees;)

Pirate_Will
Jan 5, 2004, 10:42 PM
look mate i just thought that maybe we could all grow up a bit. Im here to talk about the show tomorrow not waste time arguing nonsense. I do realise there are a lot of mac fanatics here, but i think i made it clear that i wasnt trying to pick a fight about it.

AND for those who care (although i cant imagine why anyone would) i dont like M$ and im just waiting for a happy median to come along.

technocoy
Jan 5, 2004, 10:47 PM
really, let's be serious.:rolleyes:

joeyjojoe
Jan 5, 2004, 10:47 PM
why is everyone excited about mini ipods? i was hoping apple would keep them at the top of the market so people would drool. dropping them in price might make them more accessible, but it also decreases the coolness factor. also, i don't like the idea of having 50 different models of ipod floating around.

oh well, don't let me burst your collective bubble.

SeaFox
Jan 5, 2004, 10:49 PM
Originally posted by imaswitcheryeah
So.... just what is this banner??

Anyone?? Anyone?


Yes, ladies and gentlemen, the joke rumors were true in the end.

The Cube is coming back!

...as a Sphere! :D


Alright! Alright! It was only a joke. Stop throwing stuff at me! :eek:

crazytom
Jan 5, 2004, 10:51 PM
I wonder if Dr. Srinidhi Varadarajan will be whining if they bump the speed on the G5 because he'd now have an 'outdated' 3rd fastest supercomputer in the world! :D

If he'd only waited a few more months.... :D

Mr.Hey
Jan 5, 2004, 10:56 PM
you freakin people are driving me insane! -- keep it up please, I want to be a raging mad man by tomorrow :D. I haven't been this excited in a long while :D ;)



GO STEVE GO!!!

IIvan
Jan 5, 2004, 10:58 PM
The Cube is coming back! ...As a sphere!

A shperical blue mac with a huge smily face??!! sounds like mind control to me


(shudders)

Sir_Giggles
Jan 5, 2004, 11:01 PM
Originally posted by joeyjojoe
dropping them in price might make them more accessible, but it also decreases the coolness factor.

It's cooler to have a fatter wallet than a thinner wallet regardless of what anyone tells you otherwise.

Ling
Jan 5, 2004, 11:04 PM
Wow...it feels like students have been posting all over the forum. Thank God for winter break.

I'm sure that there's going to be a mini iPod tomorrow. I recall a while back that there had been several reports of people seeing the new iPod. There just seems to be too much buzz not to happen.

My guess is...
2GB (Cornice Drive) $149
20GB $299
40GB $399
60GB $499

I'm not sure about a 4GB drive cause there doesn't seem to be as much evidence behind it. Only Toshiba (and maybe Hitachi too?) makes a 4GB drive, but they're way more expensive.

Only 12 hours left!!!! :-D

AidenShaw
Jan 5, 2004, 11:09 PM
Originally posted by technocoy
really, let's be serious.:rolleyes:

http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=642062

Hmmmmmm.

Computer case on left - one optical drive, requires vendor's proprietary case

Computer case on right - up to 3 optical drives, any industry standard drive - or any commodity 3.5" disk...


Computer case on left - no small removeable drive.

Computer case on right - two standard floppy or zip drives, or two commodity 3.5 inch drives.


Computer case on left - two SATA drives

Computer case on right - six SATA or PATA drives (up to 11 drives if you replace optical and small removeable with 3.5" drives)

But, unfortunately, the case on the right doesn't look like a cheese grater....

ps: In mine, I have 2 Ultra 320 SCSI drives, 8 ATA133 drives, floppy, SCSI tape drive, a DVD+- writer and a CD-RW writer.

And to the dork-breath who complained about the open optical slot, the case manufacturer assumes that you'll be putting in at least one optical drive - so the brushed aluminum filler panel for that slot isn't in the default config.

Oh - BTW, the case on the right doesn't wast 4 inches of height on some nonsense handles....

Arcady
Jan 5, 2004, 11:12 PM
Even if you can install 300 drives in the computer on the right, who cares? You can't install Mac OS X on any of them, so it is a worthless pile of junk to me. (It might keep me warm in winter though.)

:p

Duff-Man
Jan 5, 2004, 11:13 PM
Duff-man says.....you forgot to add....case on right - industrial design by a sixth grade shop class (at best)....oh yeah!

ffakr
Jan 5, 2004, 11:17 PM
Originally posted by AidenShaw
Sorry, but my home system is made of heavy gauge aluminum, painted a dark charcoal with an aluminum/charcoal front.
Aren't you exagerating a bit? I've seen aluminum PC cases and I've yet to see one that is heavy guage yet. I suppose that since I haven't seen every aluminum PC case, there could be one that was heavy guage... but I've yet to find it.

Though the PC world did come out with some very nice Aluminum PC cases quite a while before Apple, the G5 case is built like an Aluminum tank. The stinking thing weighs over 50lbs complete.

When comparing a PC ATX Aluminum case to a G5, it's quite humorous to use the term 'heavy guage'. :-)

side note:
Steve Jobs is a showman. Bill Gates and Monkeyboy Balmer certainly don't run a dog and pony show like Jobs.
You're faulting Mac fans because Apple not only inspires loyalty, but they also generate real excitement about their remarkably innovative products.

Sheesh.. enjoy the next Microsoft Developer Conference. It should be really exciting when they deliver yet another incomplete Longhorn preview that remains behind the feature set of OS X.

Dstreelm
Jan 5, 2004, 11:18 PM
now you just opened up a can of worms...you didnt have to go there but you did

1. floppies are out, zips are out...have been for a while, USB flash drives are cheap, quick and hold an all load of data.

2. who needs more than 1 optical drive? unless you plan on watching a dvd while burning a cd from another drive(which is stupid) then you dont need it

3. the apple is easy to work on...instilation of the infiniband cards in the bigmac's g5's took about 10 minutes (including booting up twice)

4. there is something to be said for style

5. handles are useful

done deal

mattmack
Jan 5, 2004, 11:19 PM
Originally posted by AidenShaw
http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=642062

Hmmmmmm.

Computer case on left - one optical drive, requires vendor's proprietary case

Computer case on right - up to 3 optical drives, any industry standard drive - or any commodity 3.5" disk...


Computer case on left - no small removeable drive.

Computer case on right - two standard floppy or zip drives, or two commodity 3.5 inch drives.


Computer case on left - two SATA drives

Computer case on right - six SATA or PATA drives (up to 11 drives if you replace optical and small removeable with 3.5" drives)

One more thing
Computer on the left - new virtually silent cooling system with 64 bit processors
Computer on the right - Several very loud fans with an overclocked 32 bit processor and no firewire 800 and astheically less pleasing to some.
Everyone is going to use what they like, but as far as asthetics go Apple has been very innovative and none of the major PC manufacturers have been

Sir_Giggles
Jan 5, 2004, 11:19 PM
HEY! Stop bashing on the peecee case design ok!

So what if Aidenshaw's PC looks like doggy poo poo next to the gorgeous Powermac G5 tower. There's nothing wrong with it...

As long as it's kept under the desk or out of sight, I see absolutely nothing wrong with it!!:D

IIvan
Jan 5, 2004, 11:20 PM
What the hell do you do with 10 hard drives???

Floppy?
Zip?

My grandpa used to tell me stories about how when he was a kid he used those things!!!

;)

AidenShaw
Jan 5, 2004, 11:21 PM
Originally posted by Arcady
Even if you can install 300 drives in the computer on the right, who cares? You can't install Mac OS X on any of them, so it is a worthless pile of junk to me.


True, but if the computer is just a tool - what tasks can't you do on the right computer that you *can* do on the left.

The right computer is compatible with many music download services, and portable music players.

The left computer is compatible with one download service and one player (note that the right computer is compatible with this service and player as well).


Note that "doesn't run OS X" is nowhere close to "isn't a suitable tool for my problems"....


The cliche comment would be "Get a life...".

mattmack
Jan 5, 2004, 11:23 PM
Originally posted by AidenShaw


The left computer is compatible with one download service and one player (note that the right computer is compatible with this service and player as well).
.
That is not true if you want to use itune then yes you must use an ipod, but don't tell me I cant get another player for a mac

kcmac
Jan 5, 2004, 11:24 PM
This used to be such a nice thread...where have all the flowers gone?...

Ling
Jan 5, 2004, 11:25 PM
Originally posted by AidenShaw
The left computer is compatible with one download service and one player (note that the right computer is compatible with this service and player as well).

Hey! We can use the WalMart music site too!!!! *snicker* I'm not trying to bash the PC world here...but Windows Media blows. Come on...admit it.

Now...everyone play nice!!!!

pugnus maximus
Jan 5, 2004, 11:25 PM
my home system is made of heavy gauge aluminum, painted a dark charcoal with an aluminum/charcoal front.


Ok, yes your computer is made of aluminum, but that's not a pretty piece of aluminum. That's not really a picture you should go flashing around if you are trying to win your argument. (if that is a possibility -winning your argument)

Sir_Giggles
Jan 5, 2004, 11:30 PM
Originally posted by AidenShaw
The right computer is compatible with many music download services, and portable music players.

The left computer is compatible with one download service and one player (note that the right computer is compatible with this service and player as well).

This may be a gay analogy but here goes..

Would you rather eat one really good apple or eat 10 rotten apples?

rodnarms
Jan 5, 2004, 11:31 PM
Macrumors bare text coverage of events is essential for me at work....

am I the only one who clicks every 5 seconds to refresh the text instead of waiting the right amount of time it asks for to save bandwidth?

he he

Gear lust - it makes me do aweful things.

ffakr
Jan 5, 2004, 11:31 PM
Originally posted by AidenShaw
ps: In mine, I have 2 Ultra 320 SCSI drives, 8 ATA133 drives, floppy, SCSI tape drive, a DVD+- writer and a CD-RW writer.

wow, how much freaking porn do you store in a Desktop machine? I'm guessing you have a mirrored SCSI set to boot from.. just guessing... but 8 Hard drives? I bought a 120GB for my athlon and took the 40GB out. Now granted... PC users sometimes find the need to install 2 or more OSes to suit all their needs.. but geez.
Even considering the fact that Windows never properly uninstalls applications, I can't see the need for that many drives.

BTW.. What's the average wattage of a contemporary hard drive? You maxing out a 600watt power supply in that thing? Bet it's nice and quiet.


And to the dork-breath...

wow, just when I was thinking Aiden is over 15. Maybe he's got rich parents to pay for all those hard drives. It would explain the need for that much drive space in a desktop though.
Oh - BTW, the case on the right doesn't wast 4 inches of height on some nonsense handles....
to each his own. I actually like the handles. They do make it easy to move around and I like the aesthetic. In fact I like the cheeze grater. it's kind of bad ass industrial imho, but I fully grant you the right to hate it.

martin
Jan 5, 2004, 11:31 PM
Originally posted by AidenShaw
The reason we "PC people" don't get so worked up is that the machine is just a tool, just a part of our lives. Our self-identity is with other parts of our lives (work, hobbies, sports, family) - it's not tied up with a "brand-name experience" with the company that manufactured our computer [/B]

HAHAHAHA. Except for the Intel/AMD, nVidia/ATi and MS/Linux flamefests I see everywhere. Hell, even Quake/UT wars. PC people are just the same as Apple people.

IIvan
Jan 5, 2004, 11:32 PM
Down with WMP!!!

Doctor Q
Jan 5, 2004, 11:35 PM
Originally posted by SeaFox
Yes, ladies and gentlemen, the joke rumors were true in the end.

The Cube is coming back!

...as a Sphere! :D


Alright! Alright! It was only a joke. Stop throwing stuff at me! :eek: Hold on there, mister. Lemme see your joke license paperwork. I claim that I made up that joke waaaaaaay back in 2003. Here's my post (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=352894#post352894).

Rower_CPU
Jan 5, 2004, 11:35 PM
The aluminum PC case so heavily discussed above is the CoolerMaster ATC-200 (http://www.arstechnica.com/reviews/1q00/cmatcs/cmatcs-1.html). It was a great case when it first came out a couple of years ago. I had one and loved it, though it was very loud when loaded with fans.

You still won't find cases like that being used by the likes of Dell, HP or Gateway.

Folks let's get back on track now. OK?

Fat Tony
Jan 5, 2004, 11:37 PM
Originally posted by Duff-Man
Duff-man says.....you forgot to add....case on right - industrial design by a sixth grade shop class (at best)....oh yeah!

LOL. Yes. Duff-Man is back again.

mattmack
Jan 5, 2004, 11:38 PM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU
The aluminum PC case so heavily discussed above is the CoolerMaster ATC-200 (http://www.arstechnica.com/reviews/1q00/cmatcs/cmatcs-1.html). It was a great case when it first came out a couple of years ago. I had one and loved it, though it was very loud when loaded with fans.

You still won't find cases like that being used by the likes of Dell, HP or Gateway.

Folks let's get back on track now. OK? K back on track does anyone think that Microsoft will do such a good job on VPC 7 that we could play games on it ( crosses foingers and prays);)

ffakr
Jan 5, 2004, 11:41 PM
Originally posted by Ling
Hey! We can use the WalMart music site too!!!! *snicker* I'm not trying to bash the PC world here...but Windows Media blows. Come on...admit it.

Now...everyone play nice!!!!

You know, I was at a lan party on Saturday... well a real party with a lan game running..
I tried to run the Media Player radio for the first time and it did a fabulous job of imitating a mule on an Athlon 2600+ with 1GB of ram. I really like the feature that provides multiple pop up IE ads when you try to connect to just about any radio station. Frankly it ran like such crap that I had to download iTunes on the machine.

So, sure there are more music services for the PC but there are probably more MP3 players for Linux. Big deal. I haven't run past anything I find more useful than Apple's software. So, advantage? none I've seen so far.

BTW, the G5 was the badest machine there. We were running UT in classic and I was side stepping faster then people on fast PCs were running forward.. I could run nearly as fast as the rockets I was shooting. ;-) I'm not saying that the G5 is the best gaming machine out there (ahem.. athlon64) but it is a really nice computer.

Sabenth
Jan 5, 2004, 11:51 PM
Originally posted by jZilla
I refuse to believe ANY PC luser gets this hyped about anything to do with their machine.

It's why I'd hate to see the entire world use Apple.

I admit it, I like being "unique" bar the like-minds that have the good sense to go Mac.

As long as my dual 2ghz G5 isn't announced as outdated and overpriced I'll be happy ;-) as a former windows user i can safly say i was no were near this excied in fact i wasnt bothered at all with there so called product update??

This thogh i am really really getting into brimg it on wish it wasnt 4 am australian time though

TomSmithMacEd
Jan 5, 2004, 11:52 PM
Wow we are getting into little arguments here. We lost what the whole topic is really about. Oh well 11 hours!!!

iomar
Jan 5, 2004, 11:54 PM
Finally, I hope this new version of Virtual PC is fast enough to use.

Sir_Giggles
Jan 5, 2004, 11:56 PM
Originally posted by TomSmithMacEd
We lost what the whole topic is really about.

Yeah, that tends to happen when pictures of ugly PCs get posted on a Mac forum.

Arcady
Jan 5, 2004, 11:56 PM
Originally posted by AidenShaw
True, but if the computer is just a tool - what tasks can't you do on the right computer that you *can* do on the left.

I can't inadvertantly download spyware, viruses, and trojans on the computer on the left. And I can live with that limitation. :cool:

ffakr
Jan 5, 2004, 11:57 PM
Originally posted by mattmack
K back on track does anyone think that Microsoft will do such a good job on VPC 7 that we could play games on it ( crosses foingers and prays);)

The big problem with VPC is that it emulates a low end generic video chipset. It doesn't take advantage of the features of any recent chipsets.
MS could probably upgrade the VPC engine to use the real video chipsets in the Mac. They did something similar with with the Voodoo's in the past. You could actually use a voodoo driver in VPC that accessed the voodoo2 passthrough card directly and you could actually play games (slightly slowly) in VPC.

The G5s are pretty damn fast but I'm not holding my breath for decent game support. For starters...
- you need to get native access to the video hardware.. which would be a lot of work considering you'd want to support GF 2-4s and Radeons up to 9800s.
- you need to work around the removal of the pseudo-little endian mode in the G5. Bochs doesn't seem to run very well without it.
- you STILL need to emulate all the PC code no matter what you do and your PC game won't suffer slow execution of the AI code.

If VPC can provide on the software/driver front.. the G5 may have horsepower to run some decent PC games, but the requirements are always going up. I'd be shocked if you'd see a dual 2GHz run emulated x86 code fast enough to make something like Doom3 playable.. heck even the PC version of Halo.

Maybe we do need those 3GHz G5s like gekko was promising.
;-)

frinky23
Jan 6, 2004, 12:00 AM
Originally posted by Sir_Giggles
It's cooler to have a fatter wallet than a thinner wallet regardless of what anyone tells you otherwise.

I'll trade you 12 one dollar bills for every twenty you have in your wallet. It's a good deal - we both accomplish our own goals ;)

Some_Big_Spoon
Jan 6, 2004, 12:05 AM
Originally posted by iomar
Finally, I hope this new version of Virtual PC is fast enough to use.

I never understood how people actually functionally used VPC. It's so unbearably slow even on the fastest Mac with maxed RAM. Gaming? I'd just like to be able to surf or run word (for example) without having to wait 5 mintues for the apps to open.

There are wintel only apps that I'd like to tell people they can run on a Mac, but VPC is just not a feasible answer, so they want Macs, but can't leave wintel..

MacEyeDoc
Jan 6, 2004, 12:06 AM
Originally posted by AidenShaw
http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=642062

Hmmmmmm.

Computer case on left - one optical drive, requires vendor's proprietary case

Computer case on right - up to 3 optical drives, any industry standard drive - or any commodity 3.5" disk...


Computer case on left - no small removeable drive.

Computer case on right - two standard floppy or zip drives, or two commodity 3.5 inch drives.


Computer case on left - two SATA drives

Computer case on right - six SATA or PATA drives (up to 11 drives if you replace optical and small removeable with 3.5" drives)

But, unfortunately, the case on the right doesn't look like a cheese grater....

ps: In mine, I have 2 Ultra 320 SCSI drives, 8 ATA133 drives, floppy, SCSI tape drive, a DVD+- writer and a CD-RW writer.

And to the dork-breath who complained about the open optical slot, the case manufacturer assumes that you'll be putting in at least one optical drive - so the brushed aluminum filler panel for that slot isn't in the default config.

Oh - BTW, the case on the right doesn't wast 4 inches of height on some nonsense handles....

From the ARS review:
As you can see from the start, 5 of the internal bays sit right in front of the fans._ While you could easily add one or two drives in there and still get good effects, you'd be nutz to load that thing with drives if you're trying to achieve maximum internal ambient cooling._ You could, I suppose, reverse the fans and blow out if you wanted, but that seems a bit odd._ A more important complaint (I mean, who is going to use all those bays, anyway?_ It's a mid-tower!) revolves around fit._ Put simply, this configuration was susceptible to the slightly-off 3.5" drive sizes out there._ Case in point: my floppy drive slid into its spot without a problem._ Didn't even scrape the sides._ The hard drive, on the other hand, was a little tighter in the fit._ So what?_ It's usually that way._ Well, the problem with this design is that, once you get something like my floppy drive in there, something wider than it (even if only by 1/8") isn't going to go in without some serious scraping._ You have to move down a bit before it can flex in._ Finally, I didn't like the fact that every bay required that one remove the right-side panel to be able to securely screw a device in.

For clarity: "you'd be nutz to load that thing with drives" and "I mean, who is going to use all those bays, anyway?"

"ps: In mine, I have 2 Ultra 320 SCSI drives, 8 ATA133 drives, floppy, SCSI tape drive, a DVD+- writer and a CD-RW writer."

Repeat: "Nutz"

humangod
Jan 6, 2004, 12:09 AM
Originally posted by AidenShaw
True, but if the computer is just a tool - what tasks can't you do on the right computer that you *can* do on the left.

The right computer is compatible with many music download services, and portable music players.

The left computer is compatible with one download service and one player (note that the right computer is compatible with this service and player as well).


Note that "doesn't run OS X" is nowhere close to "isn't a suitable tool for my problems"....


The cliche comment would be "Get a life...".

"True, but if the computer is just a tool"

but you see, to us, and to many others, it's not just a tool. some people like a good looking computer just like some like a good looking car.

according to what you're saying, it wouldn't matter if i keyed up your car and kicked in the doors. as long as it gets you from point a to point b, it does its job, right?

that's not right. there's a reason why there are so many awesome cars out there. people take what are just seen as normal everyday tools and turn them into peices of art. how often do you see a car drive by and are like, "damn, that car is nice!. look at the custom paint job and the body modification." you see older and newer cars all the time with sweat and time put into them, just to make a TOOL look good! apple does that with computers. apple has brought the computer past the days of a beige box with some green boards and black chips. apple has brought the computer to be an attractive item desgined to be looked at, not just "used."

quit looking at it as "just another tool." if tharts how you see it, get out of here and go use your ugly windows box. have fun with your service pack upgrades while you're at it.

Some_Big_Spoon
Jan 6, 2004, 12:09 AM
I don't think the speed (GHz) of the Mac matters.. It's a software/driver issue. The emulator "runs" at approx 500MHz Pentium MMX (according to Windows running in VPC), and no higher, and has no access to the GPU.. The SW simply needs to be rewritten..

Originally posted by ffakr
The big problem with VPC is that it emulates a low end generic video chipset. It doesn't take advantage of the features of any recent chipsets.
MS could probably upgrade the VPC engine to use the real video chipsets in the Mac. They did something similar with with the Voodoo's in the past. You could actually use a voodoo driver in VPC that accessed the voodoo2 passthrough card directly and you could actually play games (slightly slowly) in VPC.

The G5s are pretty damn fast but I'm not holding my breath for decent game support. For starters...
- you need to get native access to the video hardware.. which would be a lot of work considering you'd want to support GF 2-4s and Radeons up to 9800s.
- you need to work around the removal of the pseudo-little endian mode in the G5. Bochs doesn't seem to run very well without it.
- you STILL need to emulate all the PC code no matter what you do and your PC game won't suffer slow execution of the AI code.

If VPC can provide on the software/driver front.. the G5 may have horsepower to run some decent PC games, but the requirements are always going up. I'd be shocked if you'd see a dual 2GHz run emulated x86 code fast enough to make something like Doom3 playable.. heck even the PC version of Halo.

Maybe we do need those 3GHz G5s like gekko was promising.
;-)

neonart
Jan 6, 2004, 12:20 AM
Originally posted by Skull Leader
That's good, since there aren't any drugs on this planet that will make you sleep THAT long without killing you...:D
LOL!!!
Thats very funny at this wee hour of the night...
I should just go to sleep to cut down on the wait.
I hope G5's are updated! If not at MWSF, soon!

aswitcher
Jan 6, 2004, 12:52 AM
Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
With the rumors of old macs being there i cant but think that they will introduce a new Mac, maybe the New Macintosh a consumer oriented mac but not all in one like imac but a consumer powermac G5 if you will that can do it all, Music,Tv,Net,Video,Gaming,Computing and more. We have been hoping for this for a long time. This is what iam hoping for. mini ipods are nice but nothing to get excited about, a G5 xserve again thats nice too but again nothing to get excited about because we know thats the next step for the Xserve. Faster G5 powermacs , well we know they are around the corner. I hope im not wrong but my guess is a all new model of computer that will be for the highend consumer that will have the power and expansion to do it all. Maybe this is just a dream but i hope not.

I tend to agree but since I am in the market for a pro-consumer machine (G5 iMac would be nice) I can't say I am not biased to this view.

Jason

backdrifter
Jan 6, 2004, 12:55 AM
You Software
http://www.yousoftware.com/

Just wanted to throw that in, since no one seemed to have replied.


I want to throw my two pennies into this PC/Mac argument that has broken out. This is from someone who started out on Windows, and then swore it off for the most part (I still install it occasionally to check stuff out) in favor of Linux about two years ago. I just got my G5 about three months ago. I understand both sides of the issue.

1. There is <i>nothing</i> to get excited about from the PC side of things if you use Windows.

2. If you use Linux (or any UNIX variant), congratulations. You probably get excited about things far less than a whole expo.

3. If you use Windows, do yourself a favor and don't. Mac OS X is a far superior OS, you should do yourself a favor and put aside your bias and give it a shot. Your insults are evidence that you have never spent more than a half hour with it. Ignorant comments should be disregarded.

And, to be fair, some advice for the overzealous Mac users here. Don't rag to hard on the x86 people. Some hate MS even more than you do, but they choose Linux/BSD/etc. They don't care about sleek cases, but rather sleek code. This is cool too. A lot of UNIX geeks are swiching to OS X, at least in part, because of its merits. A lot of people avoid the more hard core UNIX OSs because of the attitude in their forums. Don't let this happen on Apple forums.

Anyway, getting late here. I can't wait for tomorrow. Good night.

rjwill246
Jan 6, 2004, 12:56 AM
Originally posted by AidenShaw
Sorry, but my home system is made of heavy gauge aluminum, painted a dark charcoal with an aluminum/charcoal front.
And, holy crap, my PC was using brushed aluminum 2 years before Apple switched from tacky plastic to the "newest" brushed aluminum....


You're really not aware of what's being sold on the other side, are you? Uninformed generalities aren't very effective in arguments.

You've at least addressed the adage "there's no accounting for taste..." very well and proven that there is simply NO concept of style in the PC world. Apple's aluminium form bears NO resemblance to that generic PC rattle-can! Thanks be to God!
A similar adage would be... "if it comes out in the PC world first, it will be a dog, and if Apple does it first it will be imitated," though dreadfully, by some Wintel manufacturer or other: especially by the dyslexic malaprop, Mickey D.

And Mac users are indeed used to seeing what's going on, on the other side. You can't help it when you go into any computer store but see the extraordinary examples of sub-industrial design that Wintel comes in. It's wonderful though since Apple doesn't have to try very hard. Mediocrity masquerades and is accepted as excellence these days.
Apple users (discriminating folks that they are) should be very glad that Jonathan Ive just can't help himself- bless him.

ffakr
Jan 6, 2004, 12:56 AM
Originally posted by Some_Big_Spoon
I don't think the speed (GHz) of the Mac matters.. It's a software/driver issue. The emulator "runs" at approx 500MHz Pentium MMX (according to Windows running in VPC), and no higher, and has no access to the GPU.. The SW simply needs to be rewritten..

I don't think that's entirely true. The emulator tries to provide the functionality of a certain grade of CPU.. but in terms of supported instruction set. VPC doesn't run at up to the speed of a 500MHz Pentium with MMX.. in reality it doesn't run nearly as fast as a 500MHz Pentium.

VPC runs the x86 ISA of a Pentium with MMX as fast as it can. If you ran VPC on a 1 THz Mac it wouldn't limit its self to the performance of a 500MHz Pentium.

The lack of proper support for the video chipsets is a HUGE reason why games don't run on it (some won't even launch because the emulated vid chip is so old).
The performance is also a big issue. From my experience, you are luck to get Pentium [original pentium] performance out of VPC for OS X on a very fast G4.

So, even if there was better software support for the actual video chipset in the Mac, the speed of the x86 emulation is sorely lacking up to this point. The G5 has the potential to do run VPC much faster because it is a much faster machine, but it also lacks a feature that made the G4 run the emulation of little endian code as well as it did.

We'll just have to see. I still have high hopes, but I don't ever expect to have VPC running as fast as a real PC... even if Macs perform MUCH faster than PCs in their native binaries.

macnews
Jan 6, 2004, 12:57 AM
Wanted to (hopefully) be the first to note the Wall Street Journal is saying Apple will introduce new, cheaper iPod. Not the $100 level, but $200 price range.

Reported on Macminute if you don't have a pay subcription to WSJ. Link to macminute article: http://www.macminute.com/2004/01/06/cheaperipod

SeaFox
Jan 6, 2004, 01:03 AM
Originally posted by Doctor Q
Hold on there, mister. Lemme see your joke license paperwork. I claim that I made up that joke waaaaaaay back in 2003. Here's my post (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=352894#post352894).

Ah, but your Mac sphere doesn't have MIND CONTROL like mine does. They think Macintosh is a cult now. Just wait. Hahahahaha!

No, really. The sphere will have vioce interaction. That's why it has a smilely face and no keyboard in the picture. See where Speech Recognition, iWrite, and other technologies have gone? :)

Also, MacBandit's avatar beats your written joke on similarity to actual events as you see in the thread.:D

SeaFox
Jan 6, 2004, 01:06 AM
Originally posted by Duff-Man
Duff-man says.....you forgot to add....case on right - industrial design by a sixth grade shop class (at best)....oh yeah!

Disco Stu says that PC case is SQUARE!

<drawing square midair with fingers>

But the Mac keeps it's coool! <thumbs up>

Doctor Q
Jan 6, 2004, 01:11 AM
Originally posted by SeaFox
Ah, but your Mac sphere doesn't have MIND CONTROL like mine does. They think Macintosh is a cult now. Just wait. Hahahahaha! The sphere will have vioce interaction. That's why it has a smilely face and no keyboard in the picture. See where Speech Recognition, iWrite, and other technologies have gone?Good. My current Mac Sphere doesn't have any connectors, so it has no input or output. Despite the cool design, it doesn't actually DO anything. Yours sounds like a nice second-generation Mac Sphere. I'll order one when they announce it tomorrow. How impressive of Apple to make the first computer with ears instead of a microphone!

blueflame
Jan 6, 2004, 01:12 AM
Viva all things Mac!
Happy night before Keynote all!
" and it was quiet all through the house, not a creature was stirring not even a mouse"
~Blue

Belly-laughs
Jan 6, 2004, 01:12 AM
Originally posted by imaswitcheryeah
So.... just what is this banner??


Anyone?? Anyone?

It´s the Mac Blue Pill. "Take the blue pill and see how your life will improve!"

miniPod logo?

hornandsaxguy
Jan 6, 2004, 01:16 AM
Please, folks. The Mac vs. PC debate is as interesting as a filled-in maze on the back of a box of Apple Jacks. Spit the bait out and let's get back to our speculative insomnia.

Mr. Newbie

backdrifter
Jan 6, 2004, 01:52 AM
Originally posted by imaswitcheryeah
So.... just what is this banner??


Anyone?? Anyone?

Well, I said it above, but still there is some confusion, so I will say it again:

you software
http://www.yousoftware.com/

You people are all letting sleep deprivation get to your heads. You don't honestly think that Apple would let a huge banner go unhidden, do you?

It is just a new Mac software company. No affiliation with Apple. I'm not expecting too much, but maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised.

Good night.

Nik_Doof
Jan 6, 2004, 02:49 AM
I love timezones, when i'm getting home from work...steve will be starting :)

8hrs to go...yay

Finiksa
Jan 6, 2004, 03:26 AM
Originally posted by Duff-Man
Duff-man says.....you forgot to add....case on right - industrial design by a sixth grade shop class (at best)....oh yeah!

I love you Duff-Man ;)

oldschool
Jan 6, 2004, 03:58 AM
Originally posted by AidenShaw
True, but if the computer is just a tool - what tasks can't you do on the right computer that you *can* do on the left.

The cliche comment would be "Get a life...".

Oh sure, computers ARE just tools, but why use a rock when you can use a hammer? Why use a scud when you can use a patriot (scud times 2).

:cool:

ffakr
Jan 6, 2004, 07:34 AM
It occured to me,
If Apple released an xserve without announcing a desktop today, it would most likely have to be a machine based off of .13 micron PPC 970s. That would mean a high end in the 2GHz range.

Think about it, if they released a significantly .09 micron based G5 xserve without a new tower, people would know the tower was immenent and desktop sales would drop up.

If, however, they released a server based on .13 micron 970s, we'd have to assume that they did this because the .09s weren't available for a January launch and as a result we'd have to conclude that .09 micron towers were still a couple months out.. Apple wouldn't release a G5 xserve and rev it immediately afterward.. and I don't see them shipping old and new PPC 970s at the same time for any length of time.

So... if the rumor sites are correct about xserves today, then I expect at least a paper release of new towers also.

Tokyo
Jan 6, 2004, 09:09 AM
Just a little observation, probably wholly erroneous--but has anyone noticed that the Apple Movie Trailers page (http://www.apple.com/trailers/) has had no new additions for two full weeks?

In fact, the last addition was exactly two weeks before the Expo?

Again, I can't imagine the connection, but it just strikes me as interesting.


Tokyo

sushi
Jan 6, 2004, 09:12 AM
Originally posted by technocoy
really, let's be serious.:rolleyes:
Looks like one of them has been violated! :D

Sushi

sushi
Jan 6, 2004, 09:21 AM
Originally posted by AidenShaw
or any commodity 3.5" disk...

You still use floppies? Wow... I'm impressed! :eek:

Originally posted by AidenShaw
Computer case on left - no small removeable drive.

Flash memory! You can say it. Come on!

Zip and Floppy are history.

Originally posted by AidenShaw
Oh - BTW, the case on the right doesn't wast 4 inches of height on some nonsense handles....

Obviously, you don't move your computer much. Handles be handy man! :D

Sushi

cjc343
Jan 7, 2004, 12:17 AM
Hey! Don't be so mean to the windozze users who post pics of their computers on this forum... if you actually looked at the picture you would realize that they are posting pictures of the backs of their computers, not ther fronts.

You should post a picture of the back end of the G5 and compare it to their pics.

jigglyjon
Jan 7, 2004, 01:06 AM
i was wondering if anyone knows where i can download a higher quality version of the keynote. I know it is still streaming from the apple site, but i want a better quality version. thx

Packetloss
Jan 7, 2004, 10:26 AM
Here is my little workstation i've built recently based on dual 2GHz Opterons and Tyan Thunder K8W motherboard, Radeon 9800XT 256MB, 2GB DDR-DIMM PC3200 ECC, 4x WD Raptors 74GB in Raid-0 with a 3Ware 8506 Raid controller.

Absolutely loooove it and it's fast, breaks my friends dual G5 in half the second and what else? it's the nicest aluminium case i ever seen, but boy it was expensive, $350 ;)

So Apple doesn't make the nicest design, PC does and they are still the fastest and most compatible with all software.

I did install Linux Gentoo on it and my jaw dropped, it's sooo fast.....

Look here for picture of the case

http://a248.e.akamai.net/f/248/5462/2h/phamcomputer.safeshopper.com/images/bu08ubwe.jpg

Dstreelm
Jan 7, 2004, 10:31 AM
i will give you that that is the nicest looking pc case ive seen (i still prefer the g5, or the g4 quicksilver, or the cube) but i bet its loud...pc cases just dont have the layout of the g5 case to optimize airflow...theyre all set up the same as my gateway from 6 years ago...

Packetloss
Jan 7, 2004, 10:42 AM
Originally posted by Dstreelm
i will give you that that is the nicest looking pc case ive seen (i still prefer the g5, or the g4 quicksilver, or the cube) but i bet its loud...pc cases just dont have the layout of the g5 case to optimize airflow...theyre all set up the same as my gateway from 6 years ago...

Thanks:)

But you can't fill your G5 tower with this many disks, right?

Hehehe....

This is my other old dual 3.06GHz Xeon which is getting replaced by the newer Opteron, but it's the same aluminium case as before:D

http://pal.pp.se/~kalle/inside.jpg

Dstreelm
Jan 7, 2004, 10:45 AM
jesus christ...wtf????? just buy yourself an Xserve raid and youll be set!!!!

what do you have on those...please tell me you compile video...

ffakr
Jan 7, 2004, 11:10 AM
Originally posted by Packetloss
Thanks:)

But you can't fill your G5 tower with this many disks, right?



well, I would prefer hot swap drives myself..

http://www.firewiredirect.com/firewire/products/RAIDHSB.shtml

http://www.apple.com/xserve/raid/

Foucault
Jan 7, 2004, 11:22 AM
I was kinda disappointed with the announcements from MWSF. I was expecting a new product. Although Garageband is pretty cool, and I will probably purchase iLife '04, I wanted something more than a minipod and x-serve. Oh well maybe next time...

cctoronto
Jan 7, 2004, 11:50 AM
First post for me here:

Decided that it was time to convert to Mac on December 1, and realized pretty quickly that the MacWorld Expo was coming up in about 5 weeks... decided to wait... I have to say that I am glad that I waited.

I don't really think that I would have been seriously ticked if I hadn't waited... which indicates to me that this was relatively mediocre news with respect to my upcoming purchase. Having said that, I am sure that, in a less glorious way, there are corporations and people that are seriously pleased at a professional level about the Xserve and Xserve RAID updates.

On another note, I must say that all the childish PC and Mac bashing that goes on in this forum is silly. The computer you want to use is simply a choice, so let everyone make thier choice without getting nasty and let's move on... please... I must say though, that this is a Mac forum, not a PC forum, so those trolls that come in here to pick fights do require some attention... ;)

Been great to lurk here, I have learned a lot and I will probably post soon on my decision... maybe even look for some advice prior to my decision, thanks to all.

:cool: