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MacRumors
Jan 6, 2004, 01:25 PM
Apple released the iPod Mini (http://www.apple.com/ipodmini/) today at MacWorld SF 2004.

The new iPods come in 5 colors (silver, gold, blue, pink, and green) has a smaller form factor and offers 4GB for $249. Also bundled with the units are a belt clip and armband.

The new form factor iPod will be shipping next month in the U.S. and Worldwide in April.

While many aspects of the Mini iPod rumors turned true, the ambitious pricing and 2GB size did not come to fruition at this point in time. Today, Apple also replaced the low end 10GB iPod with a 15GB size for the same price.

uv23
Jan 6, 2004, 01:41 PM
Nice but still too expensive. For the $50 differential, there's no reason for me to buy this over the 15gb iPod.

Powerbook G5
Jan 6, 2004, 01:41 PM
I am so getting one of those silver iPod minis. :)

CrackedButter
Jan 6, 2004, 01:41 PM
I just got off the IRC channel and everybody is complaining about the price. The price is great when compared against the flash players... thats it.

You are not comparing it against the bigger ipods. They have different attributes.

If you want the 15GB then get it but there is nothing wrong with the iPod mini either... it has its market just like the 20" iMac.

gola
Jan 6, 2004, 01:41 PM
The pricing seems a bit high, no? 50$ between 4 and 15 GB? Crazy.

Juventuz
Jan 6, 2004, 01:42 PM
The 15 gig iPod at $299 is nice, but the new 4 Gig iPod at $249 is where they dropped the ball.

I'm sorry, but I don't see the point in having a 4 gig iPod that's only $50 cheaper than a 15 gig iPod. If they wanted to cut into the Rio players and others then they should have offered it at $199.

jxyama
Jan 6, 2004, 01:42 PM
yikes. it's a lot more expensive than i had imagined...

sure, smaller profile is nice and all... but is it worth sacrificing 11 GB for $50 savings?

i thought they'd price it a bit lower to differentiate a little more from the lowest iPod.

$200 would have been just about perfect. if 4 GB was too expensive, they could have offered a 2 or 3 GB ones so they could be priced at $200..?

ionas
Jan 6, 2004, 01:42 PM
but for costomers who got not that much money it doesnt make sense - i would go for a 15gb ipod then...

if it drops to 199 or even 169 or so the new minipod will sell like hell.

chrisw
Jan 6, 2004, 01:43 PM
$249! Where's the logic in that...

mainstreetmark
Jan 6, 2004, 01:43 PM
$50 more for the 15 gig for the full iPod? Plus, they added another 5 gig for free, to make it an even better value.

A <$200 model would have sold like crazy.

Le Big Mac
Jan 6, 2004, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by Juventuz
If they wanted to cut into the Rio players and others then they should have offered is at $199.

Agreed. The price is stunningly high, given a) the small-capacity-player competition's prices and b) the price of the 15GB. Very curious. As a stockholder, I'll be pretty pissed if they don't have solid market research backing the price.

Gizmotoy
Jan 6, 2004, 01:43 PM
Well, I was mostly right. 4GB at $250, 15GB low end iPod. I miss the exclusion of the 2GB, though. I'm tempted, even at the higher price, but I'm gonna wait until I see one in person. Any idea when these'll make it to the Apple Stores?

Also, from what I can tell on the Apple Store, the armband is not included. Just the belt clip.

sfhc21
Jan 6, 2004, 01:44 PM
Very disappointing. I don't understand how this will compete with the lower priced MP3 players out there - its still too expensive to do so.

Great concept - terrible price.

mike czech
Jan 6, 2004, 01:45 PM
hmmm... while I DO like the dimunitive form factor, it seems like Steve's selling point was that they are "$50 more" than the competitor's offerings. Using this same rationale, I would definitely spend "$50 more" to get almost 4X the storage on the 15Gig iPod.

Under $200 is my target price, and under $150 I would buy them for my whole family.

Nice try, but still too pricey... How long til the prices drop??

edit: it seems like 10 other people chimed in with similar thoughts in the time it took me to type my post... lol

we're Steve's new "market research" I guess

Wash!!
Jan 6, 2004, 01:45 PM
the price is about right remember Apple is there to make money. Rio must be wetting their pants now now the ipod will be all over I love them I'm going to buy one for my daughter (pink) of course;)

aswitcher
Jan 6, 2004, 01:46 PM
Yeah, 4GB is too rich just because of the price of the 15GB model.

Can anyone comment on those new ear plugs? Good, Bad?

junior
Jan 6, 2004, 01:46 PM
I don't know... I'm a bit disapointed. Steve Jobs says that this will compete against the flash players. I don't think so. Rio, one of the best selling flash player companies, recognises the total difference between hardware based and flash players. They've therefore just announced a 4gb player for the same price. That's what Apple will be competing against, not the flash players.
Good news for the low end 10gb iPod getting the chop though. Still waiting for a 60gb iPod...

Freakk123
Jan 6, 2004, 01:46 PM
TOOO... FRIGGIN... EXPENSIVE! WHY?!? Apple had a chance to make the iPods even better, and dominate even more of the market... but then... this happened...

britboy
Jan 6, 2004, 01:46 PM
I'll be interested in seeing what the UK pricing will be, come april.... Probably somewhere in the £200 range. I'd really be hoping for a sub-£150 mini iPod, with perhaps 2GB. That's what I think apple should really have released. Still, it's a cheaper model, and I'll still be getting one when it becomes available over this side of the pond.

alset
Jan 6, 2004, 01:47 PM
I think it's a dead-in-the water product, but it will cause Rio 4gb shoppers to think twice and then upgrade to a 15gb iPod. This is another example of rumor sites (in general) killing an Apple product before it's release. I know I'm guilty of having expectations that were too high.

Someone will use the new 2gb storage "element" to compete.

Dan

yosoyjay
Jan 6, 2004, 01:47 PM
If it was to be priced at $199 I would have picked one up. At $249 I can't justify the cost.

Additionally, for another $50 I might as well get the 15 gig iPod. But I want a controller and a dock, so if I add those on to the $299 for the iPod I end up around $380. At this point I might as well spend the extra $20 for another 5 gigs...

Oh well, I guess I'll just have to wait.

warcraftmaster
Jan 6, 2004, 01:47 PM
they riped me off i just got my 15gb 3 months ago now its the lowest model :mad:
jk:D its good that its 15 now and i want to buy a mini blue one soon so i will be the only on with the new ipod again on my island

coumerelli
Jan 6, 2004, 01:47 PM
Here's the deal....just LOOK at that thing. If the iPod wasn't already popular enough, I think this thing is going to make waves. As Steve showed it, all I saw was another 'cool' apple product. How many do you think they can sell NOW? If walmart carried these, they would hit 10 million by summer, maybe 25 by next christmas. No kidding, this is going to be HOT! (but I'm still going for the 40 gigger.

Also, can the 4GB mini be used as a HD too, like it's older sibling?

mrdrumbum
Jan 6, 2004, 01:48 PM
$249? what the hell are they thinking?

they should have just made it 2 gigs for $149.

i think the ipods look much better than the minis. no white ipod mini?

iJed
Jan 6, 2004, 01:48 PM
I actually had my credit card on front of me in order to buy the new small iPod model... But this thing is so stupidly priced and under-specced compared to the 15G that I simply have no intention of paying for it. I really do not see Apple gaining a great deal of market share with this. They would have just been better taking $50 off of the 10G model and selling that.

Oh well. Really disappointing. Hopefully at least we can download the new iMovie and iPhoto...

awulf
Jan 6, 2004, 01:48 PM
Looks like I wont be getting an iPod, way too expensive for me.

Pants
Jan 6, 2004, 01:48 PM
4Gb for 249 or 15 Gb for an extra 50 bucks....hmm..... Ok it looks cute and is smaller ( the ipod sr. is hardly huge) , but i can't help wondering 'why'?

at this price point, i can't see this being the 'killer' product i was hoping it to be.


Xserves upgrade - great! but for me, this macworld keynote lacked any real 'wow' factor. Maybe I've just been spoilt by Steve-o's last few appearances.

Skull Leader
Jan 6, 2004, 01:49 PM
IMHO, the 15 GB capacity bump for the bottom iPod was more exciting than the intro of the Mini. I was really excited unitl I saw it for $249. It it was $200, I think you'd have a winner. For me, 15 GB is my 'ideal' size, so now I can get a $299 15GB instead of the 20GB, won't waste money on the Mini. Not the 'shocker' I was expecting...still good, but not that good. Really expected a 2 GB and a 4 GB. As it stands now, the Mini doesn't have much incentive. They won't venture NEARLY as far into that lower market with this product offering as they seemed to be targeting.

pjkelnhofer
Jan 6, 2004, 01:50 PM
At 2Gb for $99 I would have bought an iPod mini today.
At 2Gb for $149 I would have bought one after my next paycheck.
At 4Gb for $199 I would have saved a little and bought one in the next couple months.
At 4Gb for $249 NO THANK YOU.
I think they really dropped the ball on this one. My only hope is that soon (less than three months) there will be a price drop and the intro of a 2Gb.
$249 is still too much for the modern day walkman!

Juventuz
Jan 6, 2004, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by Pants
Xserves upgrade - great! but for me, this macworld keynote lacked any real 'wow' factor. Maybe I've just been spoilt by Steve-o's last few appearances.

Exactly... I gave up a lunch to sit through the most boring Keynote I've ever experienced.

michelle
Jan 6, 2004, 01:50 PM
I agree about 249 being too high for only 4 gigs. Yeah for only 50 bucks more you can get 15 gigs; you are only paying for the size and the purty colors. I think it would have been smarter to make it 99 bucks like people thought it would be, that way people with smaller music collections or that don't listen to music that much would be more inclined to buy them. And, they wouldn't lose business on the bigger iPods because there will always be people who need more space for their collections. Can you imagine how fast they would sell for 99 bucks??

Spades
Jan 6, 2004, 01:50 PM
The price unquestionably is a problem. Look back a few stories and notice that Rio announced a directly competing product today too. It's 4 gigs, and it's also $249. Competition with high end flash players? Not really. It's too expensive for that. It's more of a low end HD player My target price was under $200, and a two gig version would probably have hit that. With only the four gig version...I'm still going to be iPodless.

snahabed
Jan 6, 2004, 01:51 PM
Ha!!! When I said to expect a $249 4GB, I got a snide remark:

Originally posted by wankle
Uhm, the 10GB is $299 now, buddy, 4GB would NOT be $249.

And when the original iPod shipped, the hard drive it was based on (Toshiba 5GB) cost $399... the same price as the iPod

I say $129.95-$149.95 2GB, $149.95-$179.95 4GB (if there is one, I'm guessing it will be 2GB only.)

I am so resisting the urge to say something gloaty and snide :)

I know Apple. The idea of a $179 4GB was laughable. How can you people like Apple enough to come to a MacRumors forum, and still foolishly expect a $99 iPod???

Do you same people also expect $10000 new BMW's?

Assuming that, at $70/2GB, the hard drive alone is $140 (or so), add marketing, R&D, the parts, and the profit, and $249 sounds about right to me. Yes, the capacity differential is high when compared to a 15GB at $299, but the iPod mini is for those people who want something smaller, better for the gym, running, or people who like colors, cute smaller things, etc., and don't need tens of GB's of space.

What baffles me completely is that they barely touched the normal iPod line. Who would pay $399 for a 20 when $299 gets you 15? And I am still waiting for a > 40GB size. My collection is over 50GB, and I HATE not being able to autosync :(

Gizmotoy
Jan 6, 2004, 01:51 PM
It is fairly overpriced, but I think the fact that it matches anyone's aluminum PowerBook will sell a few all by itself. I'm not particularly impressed with the price, but I'd consider it.

jeremy2
Jan 6, 2004, 01:52 PM
the mini ipods are hideous!

Flowbee
Jan 6, 2004, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by yosoyjay
If it was to be priced at $199 I would have picked one up. At $249 I can't justify the cost.

Additionally, for another $50 I might as well get the 15 gig iPod. But I want a controller and a dock, so if I add those on to the $299 for the iPod I end up around $380. At this point I might as well spend the extra $20 for another 5 gigs...

Oh well, I guess I'll just have to wait.

Which is exactly the logical progression Apple is hoping customers will make... "$249 is too expensive --> I may as well spend $400." :confused:

five04
Jan 6, 2004, 01:52 PM
wow. i was in shock watching the keynote. $249 for a 4 gig ipod? come on now. that won't help sales at all. with the student discount it's still $229. i think the $199 price point would've been much better. did anybody listen to the crowd's response when steve said $249? you could've heard a pin drop.

iChan
Jan 6, 2004, 01:52 PM
i was ready to buy about 4 of these miniPods if they were priced at $150 or less...

I even told so many non-mac users about these new cheaper ipods and now i have ended up with egg firmly planted on face, thanks a lot SJ!!!

they will not reach the critical mass they are looking for at this price...

$169 seems to be a very sweet spot too... why??? just WHY????!!!!!

sky131
Jan 6, 2004, 01:52 PM
I think the pricing is just right.

Due to the hard drive technology of the bigger iPods they can only get down to a certain size. While they hold a great deal more music, they are also bigger than the new minis.

What does this mean?

It means that people who want to use their iPod to exercise should go for the mini. It holds a LOT of music, and is the perfect size. This is why Apple created the arm band.

I know this because my sister was going to get an Ipod, but it was too big and heavy for her to wear on an arm band and those back holders are just silly in my opinion.

I think Apple did a good job in striking at the high end flash market, and the mini is going to be a great success.

jxyama
Jan 6, 2004, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by Wash!!
the price is about right remember Apple is there to make money. Rio must be wetting their pants now now the ipod will be all over I love them I'm going to buy one for my daughter (pink) of course;)

apple is obviously there to make money. however, just pricing things more doesn't guarantee that you make more money.

many of us are saying that the minipods are expensive in relative to the lowest ipod. i feel that at this price, minipod will not attract much of new customers - instead, some of the customers eyeing the lowest ipod will change their mind for the portability/color factor and buy the minipod. that will not make apple more money. it's just cannibalizing.

the whole point of offering lower priced ipod was to get "oohhh, i want an ipod but it's too expensive" customers to buy one. at this price, that won't happen as much as if the "cheap" ipod was offered at $200 instead...

i'm not advocating that things simply be made cheaper - that kind of wishful thinking has no merit. however, i feel in this case, the price differentiation doesn't seem to match the spec differentiation and will result in sales cannibalism.

Moxiemike
Jan 6, 2004, 01:52 PM
I have a feeling these will be $179 by April and have a higher capacity brother to go with them at $229 or something

I think initially they'll play off of the excitement and the color scheme and the "it" factor of the ipod and then drop the price. By xmas 2004, they'll be $139 or something. :)

Personally, I don't like the design of the wheel. But the style is nice.

dashiel
Jan 6, 2004, 01:52 PM
compare the price to the newly announced rio nitrus (http://www.digitalnetworksna.com/shop/_templates/item_main_Rio.asp?model=219&cat=53) (that's the 1.5 gig listed, but they announced a 4 gig today at $250) or compare to the 4 gig creative muvo2 (http://creativex.creative.com/products/listCategoriesAndProducts.asp?idCategory=3&idSubCategory=20) at $579.

it might be higher than what everyone wanted, but it's dead on or less than competitors in the same market space. it's not often that you can say that about apple.

and let's not forget the original ipod. the single biggest complaint was it's too expensive, didn't seem to stop it from becoming the king of mo3 players.

look for the ipod mini to drop to $200 sometime mid to late 2004, i would guess either the developer conference or seybold.

ZildjianKX
Jan 6, 2004, 01:53 PM
Glad others are feeling like I am. If they made a 2 gig $149 model I might have picked one up just for jogging, and kept my 40 gig as my main player...

The only nice thing is that it can charge via USB 2.0... which all iPods should be able to do... I don't see why they can't just modify the cable to allow for this anyways for current iPods.

Another big factor is battery life. The current battery life of new iPods just sucks, and I'm guessing this model won't be much better. Plus the current firmware is buggy as hell and Apple still hasn't fixed it... :(

sosumi
Jan 6, 2004, 01:54 PM
If Apple wants to compete with the flash based players they should release a flash-player, not another hard-disc player. But I think they are much sexier than the bigger ones because of the aluminium finish.

Curufinwe
Jan 6, 2004, 01:54 PM
I think that they must have used the Toshiba 1" drive rather than the Crucible drive announced yesterday. Otherwise how could they announce a product this highly priced?

At around $200 they would sell a HELL of a lot more of these things. . .

Powerbook G5
Jan 6, 2004, 01:54 PM
I like the design and the form factor, not to mention the aluminum case. It may still be a bit high, but considering I just have under 300 songs, I don't need a 15 gig iPod and my parents owe me $250, and this would be perfect since I have been unable to think of a way they could pay me back until now.

neeotronik
Jan 6, 2004, 01:54 PM
This has to be the most disappointing thing to start out a 20 year anniversary and a New Year.

A 249.00 Ipod; and they are very ugly. It's obvious Apple doesn't make a hell of a lot of money on Itunes; they make up for it on the High end Ipods; this 249.00 Ipod speaks volumes.

Apple is comfortable with the 30 percent market share and they love the profits from the higher end ipods. They new Rio was releasing a 249.00 mp3 player and simply made the ipod mini to curb the sales of the Rio player. I'M HOPING THAT WAS IT AND NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND CAUSE; THEY NEEDED TO DO ALOT BETTER THAN THIS......... Sorry

Who in their right mind see's value in 50.00 less for almost 75 percent less the capacity of the next model Ipod. 75 percent less capacity and it's only 50.00 cheaper.

Don't get me wrong; the 15gb Ipod is the better part of this news here. That rocks. Apple isn't ready to destroy the market they created by giving everyone something they could afford. They are clearly happy with the 30 percent market share; Again the 249.00 Ipod isn't the good news today it's the 15 GB Ipod for 299.00; now to the other thread for the only other significant news (rockband) and errrrr; that's about it!

UWF404
Jan 6, 2004, 01:54 PM
This is so stupidly priced! $50 difference is a joke for 11 Gigs. I was ready to buy 2 at $199! One can also buy a Dell 15 Gig MP3 player for $249 so how are they competitive?

I'm puzzled by the pricing strategy.. And on top of that the mini does not have the sizzle of the IPOD. Don't get me wrong it is cool but anodized alum is not quite as cool as white IPOD with polished back.

Sayhey
Jan 6, 2004, 01:54 PM
Didn't he say they were going after the high-end flash market? And didn't Rio just announce a similarly priced player? I'm betting it doesn't hold a candle to the iPod mini. The important part is that Apple is making it first step into the low end market while maintaining its innovative lead. This price will drop and lower end players will come from Apple as the price of the components come down. Patience, guys - you want it all now! ;)

SpamJunkie
Jan 6, 2004, 01:55 PM
I want to be the first to point out that NeatGekko scooped everyone on this. He had the size and the price correct.

He posted it in these forums but everyone harassed him. I didn't. Charging too much for a product is so beleivably Steve Jobs that, well, it came true.

Do you think Steve will ever learn? Cube? G4s? Mini iPods? No he won't. Apple products won't be reasonably priced until Steve Jobs leaves Apple.

engelb15
Jan 6, 2004, 01:56 PM
Totally agree with the people who think they missed the mark.

I would have purchased one today for my wife if they were $199.

If they had a 2gb model for say $159 I would have purchased one of those too for my son.

Oh well, looks like Apple actually saved me some money today.......

Booga
Jan 6, 2004, 01:56 PM
4GB mini vs. 15 GB regular
$250 vs. $300
3.6 ounces vs. 5.6
0.5 inches thick vs. 0.62
included USB 2.0 cable vs. included FireWire 4-6 adapter
1.67" display vs. 2.0" display

I think the mini is really a different beast. Think of it as the MP3-player equivalent of a laptop vs. a desktop. It also will be a little more appealing to most Windows users with the included USB 2.0 cables. I suspect a lot of buyers for this thing will not have more than 4GB of music anyway, and just want something to listen to at their health club.

http://www.apple.com/ipod/specs.html

Juventuz
Jan 6, 2004, 01:57 PM
Did you guys notice that there were very few people applauding when Steve announced the price. There was a lot of applause when he mentioned the bump in size of the 15 gig, but when he said $249 it was like nobody clapped. Then a few people started like they were trying to get others. Nobody bit and that was good to see.

pkradd
Jan 6, 2004, 01:57 PM
The price is exactly the same as the Rio 4 GB player announced this morning. It is in line with the competition people. Moans and groans accompanied the intro of the first 5 GB iPod at $399. The smaller the device the more difficult it is to manufacture. The expectaion of a $99 HD based iPod was silly. The cost of these devices has to include not only the cost of the parts but the cost of manufacturing them as well as all other costs - advertising, distribution, packaging, licensing of software (Apple uses Portalplayer), etc.
Don't like it, don't buy it. You still have the regular iPods.

This will sell like crazy in Japan and Europe and to women and kids. It's a new "fashion statement".

P.S. The original iPod had the same reaction when Apple announced the price. It's such a dismal failure only selling 2 million. Oh well, back to the drawing boards. :)

Flowbee
Jan 6, 2004, 01:57 PM
Originally posted by iChan
I even told so many non-mac users about these new cheaper ipods and now i have ended up with egg firmly planted on face, thanks a lot SJ!!!


Bzzzzzt. Thanks for playing.

Don't blame Steve for that. It's your own damn fault for buying into the rumors. All rumors... even the ones that are repeated in the newspspers, should be taken with a grain of salt.

paulypants
Jan 6, 2004, 01:59 PM
should be 199$
glad i got my 20GB:D

maelstromr
Jan 6, 2004, 01:59 PM
What IS all this foolishness about pricing? Do any of you KNOW apple? When was the last time you saw some cheap piece of hardware from this company. Part of the POINT is that you pay for the better quality engineering and style of apple.

AND the big players and the minis are apples and oranges people. You can't equate "4 times bigger for only $50 more". That's like saying a portable home phone should be proportionally priced to a current cell phone. Yes the big one has better reception and sound quality, NO the small one is not proportioal because the TECH involved is different (AND SMALLER).

GrandMan
Jan 6, 2004, 01:59 PM
God. Too much. 249 for a mini! Thats a blashpemy. 199 would of been perfect. :'(

Jetson
Jan 6, 2004, 02:00 PM
I am shocked beyond belief that Apple has so greedily priced a 4GB iPod at $249.

Why on earth would anyone buy that, when you could pay $50 more and get a 15GB iPod? Even then I think all the iPods are priced $100 too much.

Maybe I'm overreacting, Apple knows what it's doing and there is a market for this device. But I'm never going to consider it as a gift at this price.

That being said, the new iPods ARE awfully cute.

Sunrunner
Jan 6, 2004, 02:01 PM
Apple has made a mistake... I hope they realize their folly soon.

neeotronik
Jan 6, 2004, 02:01 PM
Yes; there was an almost dead silence when the 249.00 Ipod Mini price came out of his mouth.

No updates on the Ibooks/powerbooks/imacs/powermac g5's. No pie charts on the sales for the last two quarters; they just aren't selling; you can get a dual 2 shipped the same day you order!

Did anyone hear Steve apologizing....... ("more great things this year........more announcements...............lots of great things to look forward to".......

Again; the winner here is the 15gb Ipod.

HUGE MISTAKE FOR APPLE AFTER THEY WERE GOING SO STRONG WITH THE IPOD!!!!

CrackedButter
Jan 6, 2004, 02:01 PM
NO? I didn't think so, now everybody before was saying the same thing with the normal ipods but they sell.

These will sell...

Flowbee
Jan 6, 2004, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by Jetson
Why on earth would anyone buy that, when you could pay $50 more and get a 15GB iPod?

Apple will be happy no matter which you choose. :)

Griffindor73
Jan 6, 2004, 02:02 PM
I like the colours- nice to see a bit of colour back at apple- but I think I will wait for the blue dalmation and flower-power models!

srobert
Jan 6, 2004, 02:02 PM
I remember many complained about the original iPod price/configurstion. Many had sweard that it was doomed to fail. Guess they were wrong.

I think the 4 Gig minimum was to have the mini stay over the symbolic 1000 songs limit.

I think it's only a wee bit overpirced but I do think it'll seel by millions anyway. Look forward to see those minis included in cool giveaways in the near future (Pepsi?)

Reading more and more post about how "idiotic" and "priced to fail" the new mini is, I almost feel compelled to make a list of people stating this for future reference in let's say a year.

I think it WILL sell by millions and that we WON'T ever see a less than 4 GB model. It SHOULD/MIGHT drop in price as larger 6-8 GB models are introduced.

pjkelnhofer
Jan 6, 2004, 02:02 PM
I think Apple is dead wrong about sub $100 players. I have a Nike MP3 players (made by Rio) it has only 64Mb and I use it nearly every day. It is plenty of music for a trip to the gym, a run around the park, or doing chores around the house.
How are the going to take over the >$200 market by pricing it $50 more?!?!?
Some one should have told Steve there already is a 4Gb MP3 player for $249. (http://www.macrumors.com/c.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fbiz.yahoo.com%2Fprnews%2F040106%2Fsftu015_1.html)
I think it is going to sell well (because it looks cool and is so freakin' small).
However, at 2Gb for $150 or 4Gb for $199 Apple would have owned the middle MP3 player market.
The reason people still by flash players?
They don't cost $249!
Apple is not going to dominate the MP3 player market the way they want.

allonzoallegro
Jan 6, 2004, 02:03 PM
:confused: Wow, wow, wow. Profoundly ignorant move. There isn't a shred of logic behind that pricing. What a flop. My only hope is that Steve is trying to milk high end customers and that in a month, citing the "success" of the iPod mini, they will lower prices or introduce a new model. If not, then Apple made its first major screwup in the music arena. Wow, amazingly poor idea to price it like that. I'd like to see what it does to the share price. Lord.

realityisterror
Jan 6, 2004, 02:04 PM
ahhh... well...
i personally think that steve-o should have brought us a 2-giger. that would have sold like heck.
but, the more i think about it, it seems like a reasonable price. THE SIZE OF A BUSINESS CARD!!!!!
my idea (and this will probably come around and kick me) is to look on the "Savings" page. apple's gotta get rid of those 10GB models.
leave one for me if you see one.

reality;)

pjkelnhofer
Jan 6, 2004, 02:04 PM
Are the other elements of the iPod (wheel, screen, battery, etc.) so expensive that no matter how cheap the storage part, an iPod will never be below $200?

McMike
Jan 6, 2004, 02:04 PM
Originally posted by michelle
I agree about 249 being too high for only 4 gigs. Yeah for only 50 bucks more you can get 15 gigs; you are only paying for the size and the purty colors. I think it would have been smarter to make it 99 bucks like people thought it would be, that way people with smaller music collections or that don't listen to music that much would be more inclined to buy them. And, they wouldn't lose business on the bigger iPods because there will always be people who need more space for their collections. Can you imagine how fast they would sell for 99 bucks??

Can you imagine how fast they would sell for 99 cent? There's only one problem: Apple has to make profit! And remember a similar Rio Nitrus costs 219$ and doesn't even have half of the storage! I don't think that if Apple had introduced a 2GB mini it would be much pricier

Pants
Jan 6, 2004, 02:04 PM
actually, I'm wondering how durable the anodised aluminium is likely to be. Since its small, its likely to be stuffed into pockets, and with the best will in the world you're going to forget you have keys or coins in there. Ally, being soft, scratches easily, and scratched anodised ally can look pretty ropey pretty quick. Anyone now if its laquered or coated in any way?

ITR 81
Jan 6, 2004, 02:05 PM
First most people that bought a flash player last yr bought the $195 Rio SJ showed.
Rio today annouces it's 4GB Rio for the same price...will it compete?? Not really since iPod users, get iTunes, iTMS, USB and firewire cables, choice of colours and also fact that the iPod is in fashion.

Those that complain about the price I guess SJ should throw out the USB 2.0 cable and drop the price to $200-210 to make you snakes happy.

Most of the sales recently where to PC users not Mac users. PC users wanted USB cables included and SJ gave it to them. The Rio will be lucky if it comes with just the USB cable.

CES show starts and 2 days I wonder if more news will be annouced at that show???

iChan
Jan 6, 2004, 02:05 PM
i've been reading a lot of reaction and the more i think about it, the more i like it...

I don't know why... it just seems right, 249... the capacity is not as important as the size and style for me...

also, in a way, these ipods are the new high-end laptops in terms of street cred anyway. my .02

lostchild
Jan 6, 2004, 02:06 PM
working in advertising, I deal with product positioning and pricing all the time. one thing you should consider is that the ipod mini and the original ipod are two completely different products, targeted to very different people.
a 50$ difference between a 4GB "original" ipod and a 15GB "original" ipod would certainly be absurd.
but this is different. the original ipod is an mp3 player for the music fan. the ipod mini is an amazingly cool fashion accessory. the ipod mini is targeted to:
- people who have 30-50 cds at home (my parents) and never thought about storing 10.000 songs anywhere simply because even 1000 songs is too much for them.
- cool trendy teen girls (i can already imagine every single japanese girl having one)
- cool athletes (armband: genius!)
- every guy who has a girlfriend and now knows what to get her for valentine's day.

the ipod mini may not be good for "us" macrumors addicted, but hey, there's a huge different market out there.

pjkelnhofer
Jan 6, 2004, 02:06 PM
Originally posted by McMike
Can you imagine how fast they would sell for 99 cent? There's only one problem: Apple has to make profit! And remember a similar Rio Nitrus costs 219$ and doesn't even have half of the storage! I don't think that if Apple had introduced a 2GB mini it would be much pricier
The Nitrus is being replaced by a 4Gb model that will probably be $249. Apple does not have the lead on this one. Rio announced it yesterday.
Rio Unveils 4Gb Nitrus (http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040106/sftu015_1.html)

Spades
Jan 6, 2004, 02:06 PM
My complaint isn't so much that the four gig version costs $249, but that there is no cheaper two gig version. Just think about it. Why have people been buying mp3 players with a pathetic 256 MB of storage? The answer is the price. Apple shouldn't be competing in this market on capacity. They should be competing on price. Give me an iPod that costs less than $200!

snahabed
Jan 6, 2004, 02:07 PM
edited

groov'
Jan 6, 2004, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by Juventuz
The 15 gig iPod at $299 is nice, but the new 4 Gig iPod at $249 is where they dropped the ball.

I'm sorry, but I don't see the point in having a 4 gig iPod that's only $50 cheaper than a 15 gig iPod. If they wanted to cut into the Rio players and others then they should have offered it at $199.

they will, forced by the market, within a couple of months, but hey, this is apple, so the months become quarters and so - after al lot of hesitating - they loose battle number x.

pjkelnhofer
Jan 6, 2004, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by realityisterror
ahhh... well...
i personally think that steve-o should have brought us a 2-giger. that would have sold like heck.
but, the more i think about it, it seems like a reasonable price. THE SIZE OF A BUSINESS CARD!!!!!
my idea (and this will probably come around and kick me) is to look on the "Savings" page. apple's gotta get rid of those 10GB models.
leave one for me if you see one.

reality;)
My thinking exactly, but what will they price them. They may very well be the same or cheaper then the mini!

rwclark
Jan 6, 2004, 02:08 PM
As others have noted, the price is too high. It doesn't make sense for the 4GB to be only $50 cheaper than the 15GB and still $50 more expensive than the most expensive flash-based player. Yes it can hold more songs than the Rio, but the price is just too expensive for many people.

P Rush
Jan 6, 2004, 02:08 PM
That thing is sexy. As said many times before, many people can't fill a 10 gig or a 15 gig or a 40 for that matter. To me, its a better, smaller ipod in an amazingly sleek aluminum case and fits most people's needs in an mp3 player. The flash players that are 50$ less than it, don't have enough memory.

Also, Too much hype and hope was put into the rumors. To make a decent profit on a quality made hard drive mp3 player, you can't sell it for 100-200$, which a lot of people were hoping and it seemed that these rumors were backed by all these "relyable sources". I think thats why everyone seems to be so pissed about the price. I am happy with the new product,
Good job apple.

iChan
Jan 6, 2004, 02:09 PM
i think for what they are, they are fantastic, but for reaching that mass market that everyone is talking about, apple need something else, i don't know what it is... an even smaller iPod?

flash-based anyone?

SJ did say "a new addition to the iPod family", thus implying there will be more to come i think... they are a family of products now...

GregUofMN
Jan 6, 2004, 02:09 PM
The $250 iPod mini is a great business stategy for Apple. Just about everybody here was waiting for the low price mini's. And many still were waiting for the $100-150 mini, right? But now that they're damn near the price as the regular iPod, just about everybody is saying, "I might as well pay the extra $50 and get the larger of the two models."

Apple isn't a stupid company. I'm sure that everybody that worked there thought $250 for 4GB or $300 for 15GB? Which one would Joe Consumer buy? Obviously they would fork over the minimal, yet extra, cash for the larger model.

It's smart business, just not entirely ethical.

bdkennedy1
Jan 6, 2004, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by uv23
Nice but still too expensive. For the $50 differential, there's no reason for me to buy this over the 15gb iPod.

Although WE are all disappointed with the $249 pricetag, you have to realize that a cheaper iPod just means that many more iPod users. Yes it's only $50 less than the 15 gig, but that's $50 that a lot of people don't have.

machan
Jan 6, 2004, 02:10 PM
just to chime in:

mini's look great, but why would anyone pay $249 for it? apple really blew it on that price. $199 would have been SOOOO MUCH SMARTER.

maelstromr
Jan 6, 2004, 02:10 PM
MASS MARKET?!?!?!

What is 31% to YOU?

humangod
Jan 6, 2004, 02:10 PM
i don't understand this. steve said the mini ipod is supposed to go after that low-end cheap-o mp3 player market.

how is a $250 ipod competing with the 100 dollar mp3 players?

steve is kinda clueless, if you ask me. he said he feels that 4GB is big enough to take the music that you want with you. i don't care what steve feels, i would have been happy with an ipod that held only 60 songs. i was waiting the whole keynote for the ipod, and was getting out my credit card to buy a mini ipod that i was expecting to actually compete with the low end mp3 players.

all i want the ipod for is to bring it to the gym with me, and maybe in my car sometimes, just to listen to a good hour and a half worth of music. i don't need my entire library, or even half my library. steve is missing the point. he thinks you have to have mass storage for an mp3 player to be worth something. no!! you don't!!

250 dollars for a portable music device is NOT competing with the cheap-o players! it's competing with the 15 GB ipod! it's competing with it's bigger brother!!

i was so excited that i was going to get an ipod somewhere in the 100 - 175 dollar range. i would have been happy with a 150 dollar ipod that held only 100 songs. i would have been MORE than happy.

this is the only time i've critized apple for anything they have made. but this time, all they did was make another high-end mp3 player. $250 is high end! it's almost a 3rd of my bi-weekly paycheck!

c'mon steve. this is not competion for the flash player market. this will not help you bring your market share up. a 50 dollar cheaper ipod is just an incentive to buy a lower end model for someone who was on the brink of buying an ipod anyway. someone like me who's 22 years old, lives on his own, is just starting out in life, is not rich by any means, is in no way attracted to this ipod. sure i want one. but i can't get one.

i'm sad to say i have to go out and get a low quality mp3 player. and god forbid i have to use my home windows machine and musicmatch to get the music on my my lame-o not cool mp3 player. thanks steve. thanks for giving us another ipod which only looks different.

god. ok. my rant is now done. no more negative apple comments from me from now on.

sfhc21
Jan 6, 2004, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by coumerelli
How many do you think they can sell NOW? If walmart carried these, they would hit 10 million by summer, maybe 25 by next christmas. No kidding, this is going to be HOT!

These will not be hot and will not be carried at Walmart. They are still priced way to high to "compete" with the lower priced MP3 players and most people will just go ahead and buy the 15 gig iPod if the do choose the iPod. At most, the only ones buying these will be Mac Addicts who buy everything Apple comes out with...

I still have quite a few friends that laugh at me for paying $300 for a "music" player - aka iPod. Its going to have to come way down before the Average Joe becomes interested in it.

stevestella
Jan 6, 2004, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by iChan


I even told so many non-mac users about these new cheaper ipods and now i have ended up with egg firmly planted on face, thanks a lot SJ!!!
!

Try blaming the idiot who got his information from a RUMOR SITE!

legion
Jan 6, 2004, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by dashiel
r compare to the 4 gig creative muvo2 (http://creativex.creative.com/products/listCategoriesAndProducts.asp?idCategory=3&idSubCategory=20) at $579.

it might be higher than what everyone wanted, but it's dead on or less than competitors in the same market space. it's not often that you can say that about apple.

That $579 figure is Singapore dollars, you're mixing currencies. I freaked out at first but following your link I noticed "S$" which led me to look closely at the top of the webpage that says "Creative Singapore"

n9kws
Jan 6, 2004, 02:12 PM
If you are unhappy about the price, tell the Apple marketing people! They will get the message to the right people, and we will see what happens.

REMEMBER: Be nice/polite in your emails to the marketing folks. If your a jerk they will just delete your email and figure your a crackpot!

avus
Jan 6, 2004, 02:12 PM
(RANT)

EVERYONE is overreacting to the price, and anyone calling Apple greedy should know more about the business and the pricing of new hard drives.

RIO 4GB PLAYER = $250. MAKE SURE YOU CALL IT GREEDY, TOO.

(/RANT)

I hope Apple will incorporate the form factor and the material of the Mini to the bigger sibling, because the chrome back and the buttons really look dated now. Until then, I will keep using my original 5GB.

Lancetx
Jan 6, 2004, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by pkradd
The price is exactly the same as the Rio 4 GB player announced this morning. It is in line with the competition people. Moans and groans accompanied the intro of the first 5 GB iPod at $399. The smaller the device the more difficult it is to manufacture. The expectaion of a $99 HD based iPod was silly. The cost of these devices has to include not only the cost of the parts but the cost of manufacturing them as well as all other costs - advertising, distribution, packaging, licensing of software (Apple uses Portalplayer), etc.
Don't like it, don't buy it. You still have the regular iPods.

This will sell like crazy in Japan and Europe and to women and kids. It's a new "fashion statement".

P.S. The original iPod had the same reaction when Apple announced the price. It's such a dismal failure only selling 2 million. Oh well, back to the drawing boards. :)


Amen! I couldn't have said it better myself. Let's just hope that Apple keeps coming up with more "dismal failures" like these! ;) These iPod minis will prove to be a hit as well in the coming months.

awal
Jan 6, 2004, 02:13 PM
One thing I would be interested in knowing is the flash memory cache.

When I bought my 2G 20gig iPod, Apple was still marketing them as appropriate for wearing while running. Several thousand hard restarts later, I think we all know that the iPod is not the optimal piece of hardware for runners. That is why I have a <$100 flash player also.

If this iPod mini can be used reliably while running (whether due to more cache or different hard disk technology), I would buy one in a heartbeat. That's a fairly small niche for Apple though, and I agree with everyone who thinks the $249 price point is too high.

madstu
Jan 6, 2004, 02:13 PM
I'm not a shrink but $199 is a psychological price point.

yes the new mini ipods are cool and yes they well sell (probably better than most expect) but they will not dominate the market the way they could have.

IMHO the only reason Apple screwed up is they missed the chance to break that psychological barrier. It really was a chance to take the iPod to the next level, like 10 million sold.

michelle
Jan 6, 2004, 02:13 PM
It is true about Apple's history of overpricing everything. When are they ever going to learn that in order to capture the market they need to make more affordable products?? There is a reason that something like 98% of computer owners are PeeCee users. PeeCees have something that many Apple products do not—an affordable price tag. I think that is what people really want, above all. Unless you are already a Mac fan, why would any unknowing person shopping for a computer choose something so expensive over something much cheaper?

mstecker
Jan 6, 2004, 02:13 PM
What does the ipod mini use for storage? Is it flash? Or is it a hard drive?

Can anyone provide conclusive proof?

If it is a memory-based player, it's a super-duper bargain at $249.

ZildjianKX
Jan 6, 2004, 02:14 PM
Anyone else think it was really dumb to compare the price to the $199 high end player? They topped every spec they compared it to, so its natural to think they would match or beat the price... wrong... blah.

merge
Jan 6, 2004, 02:15 PM
I am disapointed with the price.. BUT..

The mini comes with a Dock, Belt clip, and an armband..
with an estimated value of $70.

You do not get any of that with the 15GB iPod.
So it is not really a $50 difference.. it is more like $120 if you wanted the extras.

They really should have offered a 2GB for $200.. or $159 without the extras.

agentmouthwash
Jan 6, 2004, 02:16 PM
Let's face it.
My Girlfriend is still going to buy the 15mb model, but my brother who waiteds for this event said no way.
Still too much money. He is buying a cheaper RIO.

jasonbw
Jan 6, 2004, 02:16 PM
i thought they'd keep the dock connector and earbud/remote. thats about the only thing i got completely right
i thought they would have just altered the existing dock to take both ipod/mpod. i thought that they would have offered a 2 gig version. it thought that it was going to start at $200.

at least the education pricing is only $229.

if apple keeps their same pattern, and if you can still find a 10 gig ipod, it should be clearance priced at $269. good luck.

autrefois
Jan 6, 2004, 02:17 PM
Had they also offered a 2gig for $199 ($179 for students), that would have made a LOT more sense than just this one at $249.

While I understand that it costs more money to make the mini smaller than the regular iPod, a $50 difference between the mini at 4gig and the iPod 15gig won't make sense in the minds of many consumers, especially people would were already considering an iPod.

I think a lot of people will buy it though because of the colors, the size, and not realizing how much better the 15gig would be.

I also think Steve should NOT have done the iPod mini last. People were so excited about GarageBand and iLife '04, and then had their hopes up when he announced iPod. Certainly someone at Apple must have known that even if the general public will buy the iPod mini, that the Mac faithful would be disappointed.

Besides this a GREAT keynote with some great announcements. I'm just disappointed with iPod mini--my family was going to buy my sis a mini iPod if it was $100-$150 like the media had hinted at. I really don't know though at $249...

Count Blah
Jan 6, 2004, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by iJed
I actually had my credit card on front of me in order to buy the new small iPod model... But this thing is so stupidly priced and under-specced compared to the 15G that I simply have no intention of paying for it. I really do not see Apple gaining a great deal of market share with this. They would have just been better taking $50 off of the 10G model and selling that.


WOW!!! It's like you are inside my mind. I was going to come here and post these identical commments.

Here are the reasons I see for this product and pricing - To not cut into the regular iPod sales, and the compete with the soon to be released 1/2/4 gig MP3 plays.

All $199 - 256 Meg MP3 players are going to lose ground to the higher capasity models to be released in the very near future.

madmaxmedia
Jan 6, 2004, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by snahabed
the Ipod is NOT a glorified walkman. Anyone who says that, again, is a delusional moron.

Umm, they both play music, that's their purpose.

I don't think the price is that bad either though. Pick up a business card, and you'll see how small it is.

The iPod Mini has the great iPod UI and design, the Nitrus will be cheaper than MSRP. Neither will appeal to value-seekers, but that's okay too. I think these are great for exercise (I already have a Karma though, so don't need another player).

edesignuk
Jan 6, 2004, 02:18 PM
Yes they are very nice, yes they are smaller, yes they are "cool", yes they are a rip off!!!!! Please, anyone with half a brain will pay another $50 for 15GB.

...I don't get it...

Pants
Jan 6, 2004, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by awal
One thing I would be interested in knowing is the flash memory cache.

When I bought my 2G 20gig iPod, Apple was still marketing them as appropriate for wearing while running. Several thousand hard restarts later, I think we all know that the iPod is not the optimal piece of hardware for runners. That is why I have a <$100 flash player also.



Exactly! my 'pod was a bit of a disaster running - besides pulling down my trackies it kept going belly up. To overcome the bum-exposure issue I put it in a backpack but that didnt cure the restart thing and it was back to the radio. I hope this one is different, but i can't see it being so (given these issues and the price, I reckon its a 128 meg flash player for me.)

pjkelnhofer
Jan 6, 2004, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by Lancetx
Amen! I couldn't have said it better myself. Let's just hope that Apple keeps coming up with more "dismal failures" like these! ;) These iPod minis will prove to be a hit as well in the coming months.
Not play devil's advocate, but wasn't the Cube a dismal failure. (People who bought it loved, there just weren't enough people who did).
Apple does make mistakes.
Time will tell if this is one. Right now, count me as one of the people who think it is.
Of couse, I am probably just bitter because I still can't afford an iPod.

anthonymoody
Jan 6, 2004, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by pkradd
The price is exactly the same as the Rio 4 GB player announced this morning. It is in line with the competition people. Moans and groans accompanied the intro of the first 5 GB iPod at $399. The smaller the device the more difficult it is to manufacture. The expectaion of a $99 HD based iPod was silly. The cost of these devices has to include not only the cost of the parts but the cost of manufacturing them as well as all other costs - advertising, distribution, packaging, licensing of software (Apple uses Portalplayer), etc.
Don't like it, don't buy it. You still have the regular iPods.

This will sell like crazy in Japan and Europe and to women and kids. It's a new "fashion statement".

P.S. The original iPod had the same reaction when Apple announced the price. It's such a dismal failure only selling 2 million. Oh well, back to the drawing boards. :)


Amen. For you dullards comparing the mini to the regular iPod, do you compare BMW 3 and 5 series? The prices are close, and in fact actually overlap. Yet they obviously serve very different needs. That's why no one bitches at BMW when the M3 costs far more than an entry level 5. Come on guys, open your eyes.

I've tried using an iPod for running and at the gym. No thanks, as great as they are, for these purposes they are too bulky and too heavy. The mini is 36% lighter than the iPod, and physically smaller in every dimension. I don't need to carry around 10000 songs. 1000 is MORE than enough to get me through many miles and many sets.

I ordered one and predict the mini will double Apple's unit share inside of 12 months (read Xmas '04).

TM

gothamac
Jan 6, 2004, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by engelb15
Totally agree with the people who think they missed the mark.

I would have purchased one today for my wife if they were $199.

If they had a 2gb model for say $159 I would have purchased one of those too for my son.

Oh well, looks like Apple actually saved me some money today.......

And it will be $199 before long. Apple hit the sweet spot with this price. Close enough to the 15 gig iPod not to cannibalize it. There are plenty enough "low hanging fruit" as Steve would say to keep these things flying off the shelve at $249. When demand slows a bit, they'll lower its price to better compete with Rio and others.

Gizmotoy
Jan 6, 2004, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by merge
I am disapointed with the price.. BUT..

The mini comes with a Dock, Belt clip, and an armband..
with an estimated value of $70.

You do not get any of that with the 15GB iPod.
So it is not really a $50 difference.. it is more like $120 if you wanted the extras.

I didn't watch the keynote, but according to the apple store all you get is the belt clip. The dock and armband are extra accessories.

groov'
Jan 6, 2004, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by GregUofMN
The $250 iPod mini is a great business stategy for Apple. Just about everybody here was waiting for the low price mini's. And many still were waiting for the $100-150 mini, right? But now that they're damn near the price as the regular iPod, just about everybody is saying, "I might as well pay the extra $50 and get the larger of the two models."

Apple isn't a stupid company. I'm sure that everybody that worked there thought $250 for 4GB or $300 for 15GB? Which one would Joe Consumer buy? Obviously they would fork over the minimal, yet extra, cash for the larger model.

It's smart business, just not entirely ethical.

Yeah, the longer I think about it, I 'm convinced this is the real strategy of real businessmen.

It's classic too: if you have good products, create lesser products to force humanity into a fake competition, AKA concurrence.

autrefois
Jan 6, 2004, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by jasonbw
i thought they'd keep the dock connector and earbud/remote. thats about the only thing i got completely right
i thought they would have just altered the existing dock to take both ipod/mpod.

I must have misunderstood during the keynote, because I had thought Steve said it was the same dock for the iPod mini, but one of the first things I noticed on the Apple Store when it was up again was that there are now two different docks, one for mini, one for iPod. Well at $249 for the mini I doubt many people will have both the mini and the iPod anyway!

I also don't like the fact that the old iPod now apparently will be called old or regular, unless someone else can think of a way to distinguish between the two more easily--classic?! :). It's not the original iPod because that would be the first gen iPod in my opinion.

xmad
Jan 6, 2004, 02:24 PM
I'm going to get a flash mp3 player. Hmmm... but for just a $100 more i can go from 128MB to 4GB, and for just another $50 I can get a 15 gig iPod.... Hold on, I want a dock and remote. But if I have to buy that I might as well buy the 20 gig iPod and get those plus 5 extra gigs.

Apple is really stupid if they think I will spend $249 on a lower end, lower margin iPod when I can spend $399 and get 4x the storage on the higher end, higher margin iPod. What kind of business sense is that. I'm selling my stock. Geeze, doesn't apple know how to cannibalize sales on their hottest selling product since the original iMac. sarcasm

arqsagi
Jan 6, 2004, 02:25 PM
I really dont see apple design on this devices, I hate those colors and design maybe is just the images on the web site but dont like it.
And the price is of course to high, but cheaper than the original ipod.
but dont like the new buttons, and colors the only gook thing is the aluminium enclosure.

Count Blah
Jan 6, 2004, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by jxyama
...

many of us are saying that the minipods are expensive in relative to the lowest ipod. i feel that at this price, minipod will not attract much of new customers - instead, some of the customers eyeing the lowest ipod will change their mind for the portability/color factor and buy the minipod. that will not make apple more money. it's just cannibalizing.
...

This is the EXACT opposite logic that I think MOST people will use. For only $50 more I can get almost 4 times the storage. The ONLY people who would buy this over the 15 Gig iPod are either brain dead, or looking for a small size for working out.

drbyers
Jan 6, 2004, 02:25 PM
"$50 Mail-In Rebates for everybody!"

heehee.

D*I*S_Frontman
Jan 6, 2004, 02:26 PM
The price point for the Mini is perfect. Apple does not intend to sell a product for less than its competition, ever. The best you can hope for is dead even, which the Mini is compared to the 4GB Rio.

Like it or not, Apple is a BRAND and you are paying for the name and all it stands for. What is the technical difference between Coke and your grociery store's proprietary equivalent? Both are fizzy sugar water in an aluminum casing, but most will pay 2-3x more for a brand they trust.

The price difference between the Mini and the 15GB iPod only really matters to Mac people (4% of the computing world, remember). This product was designed to target a specific market at a specific price point. In a Best Buy the Mini might be near the Rio, begging the comparison betweent the two. The interface and wealth of other features should win the day for Apple in such a face-off.

This product is intended to take money out of competitor's pockets, not out of Apple's own in the form of those who were already considering the entry-level iPod. In fact, by upping the drive space and holding the price, Apple has specifically prevented the lower model cannibalization a $199 Mini would have caused. The fact that so many here are whining about the price and can't possibly imagine buying one over the 15GB iPod proves that they were right on with their pricing.

All those who think the Mini will die are probably the same people who thought the $499 price point for the high end iPod an outrageous price for an MP3 player. Yeah, right. Three of the top five models in mp3player sales in 2003 were iPods, including the 40GB. Sure glad Apple didn't whore those out--the R&D budget can stay flush and innovation can continue.

People wanting Apple to play the razor-thin margin commodity computer market don't understand that Apple's way of sidetracking that cutthroat market ensures quality, innovation, and longevity. We will always pay as much or slightly more for an Apple product--because as a group we understand that user-friendliness, stability, build quality, and aesthetic beauty are all nice things to have in a computer. If we didn't feel this way we'd all be cobbling X86 motherboards into hotrodded yet wildly unstable, high maintenance systems for less money. Count me out on that. My time in this life is worth something, and I don't want to waste a single minute trying to hack through some config conflict with my buggy OS.

Fender2112
Jan 6, 2004, 02:26 PM
I'm not going to read the first 100 posts. So if I repeat something, so be it.

1. I like the form factor. Nice and compact. 4 GB is the right size for me.

2. I was really hoping for a $199 price tag. $249 makes me think twice about the new 15 GB iPod.

3. If the retailers have to take shippments of all five colors like they did with fruit colored iMacs, I have a feeling there will be a lot of left over pink minies

CrackedButter
Jan 6, 2004, 02:26 PM
The iPod is a HD based device

The iPod has the same cache as the regular iPods, its in the tech specs.

robotrenegade
Jan 6, 2004, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by uv23
Nice but still too expensive. For the $50 differential, there's no reason for me to buy this over the 15gb iPod.

I agree, this is a waste of money on apple's end. It also a waste of money for the ppl that buy them.

swissmann
Jan 6, 2004, 02:27 PM
I read the first 5 posts and skipped to the end because they were all the same. I like most people state that $249 is way too much! Buy the 15 GB! I know old news already but the more people who complain, the more Apple might realize their blunder and drop prices.

madmaxmedia
Jan 6, 2004, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by GregUofMN
The $250 iPod mini is a great business stategy for Apple. Just about everybody here was waiting for the low price mini's. And many still were waiting for the $100-150 mini, right? But now that they're damn near the price as the regular iPod, just about everybody is saying, "I might as well pay the extra $50 and get the larger of the two models."

Apple isn't a stupid company. I'm sure that everybody that worked there thought $250 for 4GB or $300 for 15GB? Which one would Joe Consumer buy? Obviously they would fork over the minimal, yet extra, cash for the larger model.

It's smart business, just not entirely ethical.

I actually highly doubt it. It costs a lot of money to develop a new product, if you're developing and pricing it solely to make another product look better.

If that was their goal, they could've saved all the money and cut the 10Gig iPod to $249 and sold more of those.

It's simply a different product, with different pricing structure. At least they don't overlap! ;)

rlhubley
Jan 6, 2004, 02:28 PM
Over the next six months, I think the miniPod will will get bigger while price continually goes down. Let's remember the size of the first iPod, 5 gb. Everyone dug that. I bet we will see this thing get up 5, 7, and 10gb, and price will hover around 249 for a while, but eventually go down to 199, that's as low as I think they will take it. I also don't think they will offer the mini in more than one size at a time. If they do, it becomes overkill. One size mini, plus 3 iPod sizes is enough already.

gerardrj
Jan 6, 2004, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by humangod
i don't understand this. steve said the mini ipod is supposed to go after that low-end cheap-o mp3 player market.
one. but i can't get one.


Noooo.
Steve stated that the iPod mini was going to compete for the high end flash market.
Steve specifically stated that the low-end flash market is not a place to play. Their research shows that people toss $50 players in the drawer and never use them because they hold so few songs.

From personal experience I know this to be the case. I was given a Rio 64MB player and only used it a few times, it was pointless to only carry 12 songs on it. I use my 5GB iPod most every day.

allonzoallegro
Jan 6, 2004, 02:30 PM
And it will be $199 before long. Apple hit the sweet spot with this price. Close enough to the 15 gig iPod not to cannibalize it. There are plenty enough "low hanging fruit" as Steve would say to keep these things flying off the shelve at $249. When demand slows a bit, they'll lower its price to better compete with Rio and others.

Apple could harvest a tidy little crop of customers who leap on the $249 mini, but it seems clear that without a quick followup with a sub-200 model (I mean that new 2GB drive is only $70...surely they could make a 2GB player sub-$200), they are going to be missing a big opportunity. Granted, the window for mp3 players is not about to close, but still, every day that passes without a cheaper Apple model will make their entry in that market a little bit harder.

Also, I would definitely have purchased two minis if they were under 200, even at 2GB, for a pair of friends going overseas who can't afford an ipod. But while I could have spent $400 total (wimpering as my wallet shrunk) I just can't hit $500 and pay the rent. Course, not everyone is on a college students budget...but college students are, and they buy a lot of mp3 players.

greenstork
Jan 6, 2004, 02:30 PM
Originally posted by maelstromr
What IS all this foolishness about pricing? Do any of you KNOW apple? When was the last time you saw some cheap piece of hardware from this company. Part of the POINT is that you pay for the better quality engineering and style of apple.

AND the big players and the minis are apples and oranges people. You can't equate "4 times bigger for only $50 more". That's like saying a portable home phone should be proportionally priced to a current cell phone. Yes the big one has better reception and sound quality, NO the small one is not proportioal because the TECH involved is different (AND SMALLER).

Combine the fact that I will now have to pay for iPhoto and iMovie upgrades with the overpriced $249 iPod mini and it's obvious that Apple milking loyal mac users to pay a premium for the Apple brand, and continued innovation. There's a yearly fee to update you Mac software for both OSs and now iApps.

I guess I can see how innovation costs money but the fact remains that it is becoming more expensive to be a Mac user every year, and to have up-to-date software.

As for the iPod mini, I just think that Apple is missing the boat. Some folks only care about price, not necessarily features. Some folks can only spend so much money and in the grand scheme of things, a $250 mp3 players might seem like too much to spend on such a product, regardless of features. It's a shame that they abandoned the affordable mp3 players market, instead opting only for a market on medium to high cost products, I think they missed a tremendous opportunity.

Macmaniac
Jan 6, 2004, 02:30 PM
Well since I work for an Apple retailer I will get it for cost, but even then it will be like $50 less then retail, I'm really disappointed, I wish it was cheaper, if it was $200 it would be perfect, Apple would make a killing, but instead they are going to cannibalize sales, they will sell few miniPods they will sell a lot of 15 gig iPods instead.

vlazlo
Jan 6, 2004, 02:31 PM
bleck, this blows...

Flowbee
Jan 6, 2004, 02:32 PM
Originally posted by Fender2112
3. If the retailers have to take shippments of all five colors like they did with fruit colored iMacs, I have a feeling there will be a lot of left over pink minies

I think pink will be very popular with women/girls. Gold is the color that worries me.

Jetson
Jan 6, 2004, 02:32 PM
I complained about the high price and I'm not alone.

However I reconsidered and looked at it from an economics point of view. At this price point the demand probably won't exceed the capacity of Apple to produce the mini iPods.

Better to market to those who are willing to pay than to be swamped by potential buyers that will be disappointed by having to wait for back orders.

And I think the new iPods are really beautiful. Kudos to Apple on a superb design!

srobert
Jan 6, 2004, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by Flowbee
I think pink will be very popular with women/girls. Gold is the color that worries me.

I don't like the gold one too but I'm sure it'll sell to the "bling bling" crowd ^_^

brhmac
Jan 6, 2004, 02:34 PM
If the question is: How can Apple make a MORE AFFORDABLE iPod, why does Apple announce a SMALLER iPod?

:confused:

Has anyone in the electronics/hardware industry known small size and affordable price to go hand-in-hand? (Not to mention battery life. How long will a charge last on these new models?)

IMHO, Apple should have dropped the price of the 10 gig model to $249. There was no need to eliminate it. $50 between the 10 gig model and the 15 gig model is reasonable, and Apple can respond to what consumers wanted: They get a MORE AFFORDABLE iPod.

And the sales/marketing writes itself...

So-and-so charges $249 for 4 gig model with lackluster design and no integration with the world's leading provider of legal music downloads. Through our listen-to-the-customer-we-really-want-you-to-switch-to-Apple mindset, we figured out how to give you a MORE AFFORDABLE iPod and give you 6 gig MORE storage. AT NO ADDITIONAL CHARGE.

drbyers
Jan 6, 2004, 02:35 PM
somebody in marketing at Apple headquarters is getting fired right now, as we speak.

heehee.

Flowbee
Jan 6, 2004, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by greenstork
I guess I can see how innovation costs money but the fact remains that it is becoming more expensive to be a Mac user every year, and to have up-to-date software.

As compared to all the other quality software you use that's always updated for free?? :rolleyes:

dbenwoods
Jan 6, 2004, 02:36 PM
Sure, if you compare it to the regular ipod, it seems over priced - "why not spend another $50 for an additional 11gigs?"

However, Apple has thrived against cheaper competing hard drive based players - it is expanding from juke-box type players into the smaller, more portable players - the healthclub, mountain biking, snowboard crowd.

At $249 for 4 gigs, it is very strong against a Rio Cali 256Mb, going for $199 - in this scenario, the argument is, "why not spend an extra $50 for 16 times the music, plus the cool factor. And the interface is - oh about a thousand times better... And it syncs with iCal. And it holds contact info. And it holds txt notes. And it has games."

Apple isn't going to compete by "wal-marting" the product in a race to the bottom. It is a prestige / status product.

anthonymoody
Jan 6, 2004, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by greenstork
As for the iPod mini, I just think that Apple is missing the boat. Some folks only care about price, not necessarily features. Some folks can only spend so much money and in the grand scheme of things, a $250 mp3 players might seem like too much to spend on such a product, regardless of features. It's a shame that they abandoned the affordable mp3 players market, instead opting only for a market on medium to high cost products, I think they missed a tremendous opportunity.


Yes, those "some folks" you speak of buy peecees.

You price crybabies really make me laugh. See you at Xmas '04 when Apple's unit market share has doubled.

TM

Chupa Chupa
Jan 6, 2004, 02:37 PM
Its so hilarious to read some of the illinformed posts here. Look, a 2004 Ford Thunderbird w/ V8 engine is around $36K. A BMW Z4 w/ 2.5L I6 engine is also around $36K. With the logic around here people should be flocking to the Ford with the bigger engine instead of the BMW. But they are not. The new Thunderbird is a dud while BMW has the #1 sales position in luxury roadsters.

If any of you actually listened to the Keynote, you'd have caught that Steve is going after the high-end flash memory player market. People who buy these types of players value size over storage. THAT is the mini's niche. Sure the 15GB iPod is a better value, but believe it or not, there is a sizeable amount of the population that thinks the iPod is too big for there purposes. That is why they don't by an iPod over a high end flash player in the first place.

$249 is expensive, but when have Apple products been cheap? I can't remember any time. The mini's closest competitior, the the 4GB Rio is $199, but its plastic, has a clunky interface, and isn't compatible with iTMS. If you want to load up your player with Windows Media, go ahead, but its not nearly as flexible as the AAC files Apple uses with iTMS.

fraeone
Jan 6, 2004, 02:37 PM
Wow too much complaining. This thing is better than flash based players, and cornice hd based players, and is the cheapest ipod ever.

What's the beef? Too many people believing in rumor sites and their ridiculous $99 price speculation.

jero
Jan 6, 2004, 02:37 PM
apple dropped the ball with the price on this mini pod. thats just my opinion. i'll take a 15 gig instead.

man this place is jumping! so many users on! lol.

mainemike
Jan 6, 2004, 02:37 PM
The consensus in these threads is pretty strong and I have to say, I wholeheartedly agree.

The iPod mini is overpriced. If I hadn't known better, I would have thought the Moscone Center had emptied out at the very moment Jobs announced the pricing.
The silence was very telling!

To take this a small step further, I asked three of my son's buddies what they thought of the iPod mini. These kids (except for my son) do not use Macs or own iPods. First reaction when they saw pics of the mini was "Cool!" and "Man, that's tiny!" followed by a general consensus that the mini iPod looked "sweet". I then mentioned that the mini costs $249.

All three of these kids said "Say what?" All of them said they'd buy a 15GB iPod for $50 more if they could afford it, but they can't, so they won't.

Bummer about the price, Apple.

allonzoallegro
Jan 6, 2004, 02:38 PM
IMHO, Apple should have dropped the price of the 10 gig model to $249. There was no need to eliminate it. $50 between the 10 gig model and the 15 gig model is reasonable, and Apple can respond to what consumers wanted: They get a MORE AFFORDABLE iPod.

And the sales/marketing writes itself...

So-and-so charges $249 for 4 gig model with lackluster design and no integration with the world's leading provider of legal music downloads. Through our listen-to-the-customer-we-really-want-you-to-switch-to-Apple mindset, we figured out how to give you a MORE AFFORDABLE iPod and give you 6 gig MORE storage. AT NO ADDITIONAL CHARGE.

Man, this hits it right on the money.

gothamac
Jan 6, 2004, 02:38 PM
"I have a feeling there will be a lot of left over pink minies"

Wrong you are. They'll be the hottest seller for sure.
I'm not sure I like the hard edges on the top and bottom. Would have been nice if smooth like the iPod.

blueflame
Jan 6, 2004, 02:39 PM
all those ilife updates are free? arent they?
live the new iphoto, new i movie, etc...? i think they should be. they always have been in the past. Even idvd was really free, you just needed to buy the packaging to get it cause it was huge.
Andreas

Macmaniac
Jan 6, 2004, 02:39 PM
Something tells me that Apple if their smart will do an about face and lower the price, they did it on the G5, so if there is enough pressure they may lower the price think of that.

fcpguy
Jan 6, 2004, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by humangod
i don't understand this. steve said the mini ipod is supposed to go after that low-end cheap-o mp3 player market.

how is a $250 ipod competing with the 100 dollar mp3 players?

steve is kinda clueless, if you ask me.

I mean no disrespect but, perhaps you are the clueless one...Steve didn't say he wanted to go after the low end mp3 player market, he said he wanted to go after the high end flash based player market.....try listening and comprehending a bit before you write a page long tirade.

Plus, can someone please explain to me why everyone is so pissed off??? Relax, it's just a product.....I'm pretty pissed off that plasma screen TV's are still astronomical in price, but I don't have a heart attack over it. If you want a well engineered piece of technology that also has a "cool factor" then there's going to be a higher price to pay....otherwise, go buy some piece of crap that'll meet your needs and be pissed off that you don't have what you want because you didn't want to spend a few extra bucks or you couldn't afford it....I'm tired of you people that think Apple should all of a sudden cater to the low end....they shouldn't and we shouldn't expect it either......Apple is what it is and I don't understand why some people here are constantly whining about them not becoming the next Dell or Gateway...and if they did you all would be complaining that Apple doesn't make the cool innovative products that we've all come to know and love. You can't have it both ways.....

autrefois
Jan 6, 2004, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by D*I*S_Frontman
Like it or not, Apple is a BRAND and you are paying for the name and all it stands for.

Can I get it for 50 bucks cheaper if they take the Apple logo off?? :)

I agree that it will be a top of the line product, but not everyone has top-of-the-line salaries. People who don't have a ton of disposable income cannot pay $250 for a music player. They will buy a cheaper one made by some other company, and be disappointed they can't have Apple.

The 2gig at $199 MAXIMUM, in addition to the 4gig, would have been a better choice if they really wanted to go after the average music listener better. The technology is obviously there, and they still would have made a profit.

I guess they justify it by making the software so cheap [I am pleasantly shocked about GarageBand btw.]

They apparently want iLife "for the rest of us", but not iPods.

JrdBeau
Jan 6, 2004, 02:39 PM
I would hardly call these "mini" only 1/2" narrower and shorter and 1/8" thinner.

The price is the most disappointing thing tho. no reason to get this. At $199, they would have flown off the shelves. If you are going to charge $249, you should get the dock included.

Sayhey
Jan 6, 2004, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by Fender2112
If the retailers have to take shippments of all five colors like they did with fruit colored iMacs, I have a feeling there will be a lot of left over pink minies

I'm betting if I go to Golden Gate Park in six months there will be an awful lot of teenage girls roller blading with the pink minis. The color scheme is great. The price is aimed at the high-end flash players and who wants to bet which company sells more 4gb players in the same next six months - Rio or Apple? My bet is on the iPod mini.

greenstork
Jan 6, 2004, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by D*I*S_Frontman
People wanting Apple to play the razor-thin margin commodity computer market don't understand that Apple's way of sidetracking that cutthroat market ensures quality, innovation, and longevity. We will always pay as much or slightly more for an Apple product--because as a group we understand that user-friendliness, stability, build quality, and aesthetic beauty are all nice things to have in a computer. If we didn't feel this way we'd all be cobbling X86 motherboards into hotrodded yet wildly unstable, high maintenance systems for less money. Count me out on that. My time in this life is worth something, and I don't want to waste a single minute trying to hack through some config conflict with my buggy OS.

While I think Apple strategy has worked for them thus far as a niche computer market player, they will not dominate any market unless they can undercut the price of the competition. Monopoly rules of engagement 101. Now I'm not saying that market domination is Apple intention but this seems to be in direct conflict with their marketing and messaging of online music/iPods to date. I personally think that the small/high quality niche approach is wrong for online music/iPods but that just my opinion.

Flowbee
Jan 6, 2004, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by srobert
I don't like the gold one too but I'm sure it'll sell to the "blig blig" crowd ^_^

Ah, yes.

And am I alone in thinking that Black would have been a great addition to the color line-up?

allonzoallegro
Jan 6, 2004, 02:41 PM
However, Apple has thrived against cheaper competing hard drive based players - it is expanding from juke-box type players into the smaller, more portable players - the healthclub, mountain biking, snowboard crowd.

Do other sports have as much problem with using the iPod as runners do? I've never even bothered to try and use it when training, just from the number of people who have said you just can't job with it (since it's a hard drive)...

Just wondering.

Count Blah
Jan 6, 2004, 02:42 PM
Originally posted by Fender2112
I'm not going to read the first 100 posts. So if I repeat something, so be it.

1 ...

2 ...

3. If the retailers have to take shippments of all five colors like they did with fruit colored iMacs, I have a feeling there will be a lot of left over pink minies

I bet you are a guy. Approx. 50% of the population is female, and at last time I checked, a lot of them do like the color pink.

OutThere
Jan 6, 2004, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by mstecker
What does the ipod mini use for storage? Is it flash? Or is it a hard drive?

Can anyone provide conclusive proof?

If it is a memory-based player, it's a super-duper bargain at $249.

Hard drive.




Capacity

* 4GB, 15GB, 20GB or 40GB hard disk drive(1)
o Holds 1,000, 3,700, 5,000 or 10,000 songs in 128-Kbps AAC format(2)
o Stores data via FireWire or USB 2.0(3) hard drive


http://www.apple.com/ipod/specs.html

neeotronik
Jan 6, 2004, 02:43 PM
LOL!!!! The 10 Gig model at 299.00 was still a better deal. 15 Gigs is even better!!!! Absolutley correct; if they had just dropped the price of the 10 GIG it would have been better received. 60 percent less capacity than the 10 gig and only 50 bucks cheaper. 75 percent less the 15 gig and only 50.00 cheaper. That's highway robbery; BRING BACK THE 10 GIG; they shaved off 6 gigs and priced it 50.00 cheaper. INCREDIBLE!

Stewdy
Jan 6, 2004, 02:43 PM
I'll be honest, I was expecting the price to be around $200 or so, but I really don't think that the extra $50 is anything to get too worked up over (especially considering educational pricing at $229). If the ipod mini is good for running and won't skip (as I've heard other ipod owners claim is an issue) then that's good enough for me and I'll buy one. I just got my first mac a month ago (12" G4 ibook) and immediately imported every CD I own. That came up to about 2,700 songs and a little over 10GB. I will probably never listen to 70% of what I have on my hard drive but they're there if I want them. So 30% of 2,700 is about 810 songs which will fit on an ipod mini. So basically I'll be able to carry around anything that I'd be remotely interested in listening to now (vs. what I liked 10 years ago). So, for me I don't have a problem with 4GB. Especially considering that my ipod mini and my ibook will chat at least every few days. If there is a song that I'm dying to listen to while running then I'll just add it to my ipod mini playlist. Now if the mini skips when i run... Guess I'd better buy applecare too. :)

jettredmont
Jan 6, 2004, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by michelle
Can you imagine how fast they would sell for 99 bucks??

Yeah, but Dude! Can you imagine how fast they would sell if they were FREE?!?

SWC
Jan 6, 2004, 02:45 PM
not sure if anyone mentioned it but....the new iPod mini uses a 4GB hitachi compact flash micro drive.

kirk26
Jan 6, 2004, 02:45 PM
Education discount is $229 for iPod mini.:cool:

Indiana Mac
Jan 6, 2004, 02:45 PM
The iPod is Apple's most visible brand, possibly ever. Instead of giving the impression that, yes you can afford an Apple product, they instead price the new "mini" at an absurd price. Its just repeating the whole conception of Apple as a "expensive toy" instead of a workhorse. Instead of dropping the 10 gig iPod, they should have just dropped the price. They whould have gained further market share, while reducing the impression that Apple only makes expensive toys.

srobert
Jan 6, 2004, 02:45 PM
http://www.recoilmag.com/news/grfx/mr_t_inducted_1102orgA.jpg

I pity the foo! who does'nt pick the gold plated mini!

^_^

uv23
Jan 6, 2004, 02:46 PM
A lot of people are talking about the price of the mini being justified because it is going up against the high-end flash market. But if it is indeed hard drive-based, then in reality it is not competing at all; it exists only in an awkward purgatory. It will suffer all of the same problems that the iPod suffers in "active" listening conditions, such as running, working out, etc. There is a lot more forgiveness regarding shock, vibration, and movement from solid state media than there is from hard drives.

krimson
Jan 6, 2004, 02:46 PM
Originally posted by Count Blah
I bet you are a guy. Approx. 50% of the population is female, and at last time I checked, a lot of them do like the color pink.

my gf would LOVE a pink iPod mini... i aint shelling out $250 for her 40 mp3's though :p

Flowbee
Jan 6, 2004, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by mainemike
To take this a small step further, I asked three of my son's buddies what they thought of the iPod mini. These kids (except for my son) do not use Macs or own iPods. First reaction when they saw pics of the mini was "Cool!" and "Man, that's tiny!" followed by a general consensus that the mini iPod looked "sweet". I then mentioned that the mini costs $249.

When you're a kid, anything over $100 sounds too expensive.

I don't think Apple intends for children to be able to scrape together thier allowance money and buy these minis. They'll beg their parents and the parents will buy them.

1macker1
Jan 6, 2004, 02:48 PM
I might get one just to be different, and for the belt clip..i think it's cool. But really this sucked a big fat one. My this is an apple plot to seel more 15G iPods, anyone think about that. For sure people are going to say "damn for only $50 more i can get a 15G."
Sneaky little devils arent they.

i_eclipse
Jan 6, 2004, 02:48 PM
wow so pointless! ok i agree, very nice but every says the same thing,, everyone will just end up with th 15gig..

if it had stayed at 10gig, maybe the gap would not have been so big..
but right now,, completely pointless in the market right now,, apple needs to release a 2 gig version at 149 with a cornice 2 gig..

Jookbox
Jan 6, 2004, 02:49 PM
if you go to the rio site, it says their player was featured in steve jobs macworld keynote. LOLOL!

http://www.digitalnetworksna.com/shop/_templates/item_main_Rio.asp?model=215&cat=54

hayesk
Jan 6, 2004, 02:49 PM
No offence, but you people who think it's overpriced are extremely short-sighted.

The mini comes with a dock, a case, armband, remote control - all things the 15GB doesn't have. So, no, spending $50 more won't get you the same thing with 11 more GBs.

And some suggested to keep the 10GB model and mark it down $50. Have the cost price of 10GB 1.8" drives fallen $50 recently? The difference in price of 10GB and 15GB drives is far less than $50. Not only that, the price of storage is only a small part of the cost of an iPod.

The iPod mini has all the same guts as a bigger iPod. The difference is the storage which is only part of the cost. I don't see how Apple could charge $200 or less and still make money on them.

$249 is a fair price - as illustrated by Rio who are charging the same thing for a device not nearly as nice. But if you disagree, please point out the cost of the various components of the iPod to see where Apple is gouging us.

mainemike
Jan 6, 2004, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by Flowbee
When you're a kid, anything over $100 sounds too expensive.



It used to be that way....when I was a kid.

allonzoallegro
Jan 6, 2004, 02:50 PM
not sure if anyone mentioned it but....the new iPod mini uses a 4GB hitachi compact flash micro drive.

So does this solve the running problem, because if that were the case, then that would be a major selling point. If not....well, it's already been said.

So, does anyone know exactly what's under the hood of the mini and whether or not it would skip, based on what's been seen in previous iPods?

iEric
Jan 6, 2004, 02:50 PM
Yea the price is a big deal i see...Yea..I think if they made it at 199, EVERYONE will buy one. I know all my Windows-user friends would. They love the iPod, but they just find it too expensive. At 199 for the mini, it'd be excellent!

But I think jobs would lower the price later...and increase the size by a GB maybe. So its 5, 15, and 20 and 30...I dont know...lets just be happy :D

iChan
Jan 6, 2004, 02:51 PM
i'm just annoyed about the fact that apple didn't announce anything that really set the world on fire... i was so psyched about this keynote, and turned out to be quite dull actually.

i really wanted to see something truly groundbreaking that would create a rise in Apple stock price. alas, none.


here's to a strong 2004

Gizmotoy
Jan 6, 2004, 02:51 PM
Originally posted by hayesk
No offence, but you people who think it's overpriced are extremely short-sighted.

The mini comes with a dock, a case, armband, remote control - all things the 15GB doesn't have. So, no, spending $50 more won't get you the same thing with 11 more GBs.

For the last time. No it doesnt. No dock. No armband. You do get a belt clip, a firewire and usb cable. That's it. Not even a case.

However, if they were smart, that's exactly what it WOULD contain. I can agree that $250 would be a great deal with those things included.

Flowbee
Jan 6, 2004, 02:51 PM
Originally posted by Jookbox
if you go to the rio site, it says their player was featured in steve jobs macworld keynote. LOLOL!

http://www.digitalnetworksna.com/shop/_templates/item_main_Rio.asp?model=215&cat=54

$169 for 128mb of storage!!! Quit your whining, people!

jettredmont
Jan 6, 2004, 02:51 PM
Originally posted by Curufinwe
I think that they must have used the Toshiba 1" drive rather than the Crucible drive announced yesterday. Otherwise how could they announce a product this highly priced?

At around $200 they would sell a HELL of a lot more of these things. . .

Ummm ... the Rio unit appears to use the Cornice drives, and it sells for $250 as well ...

CrackedButter
Jan 6, 2004, 02:52 PM
I wonder if they update the normal ipods with voice recording abilities and such things you couldn't fit into the form factor of the new ipods thus creating a difference between the 2 product lines.

greenstork
Jan 6, 2004, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by Count Blah
I bet you are a guy. Approx. 50% of the population is female, and at last time I checked, a lot of them do like the color pink.

It's important to note that in many cases when multiple colors of a product are offered, like the fruit colored iMacs, retailers can get stuck with a large inventory of unpopular colors. In the case of the iMacs, the strawberry iMac was not well received and consequently many retailers got stuck with a surplus inventory of them.

So before you jump to some sexist conclusion...

crapple33
Jan 6, 2004, 02:54 PM
I wish they'd left the option of buying a 10-gig iPod, though I suppose I see the logic in dropping it. If they had kept it, they'd have to drop the price on it, which would basically mean it would cost the same as the minis, which wouldn't exactly work out.

KINetics
Jan 6, 2004, 02:55 PM
I've been waiting for an ipod forever an with the introduction of the minis, I'm gonna buy one even at the $250 price. For those that complain that $50 will get you 11 more gigs, fine spend the extra $50 and get the larger ipod. You'll be happy and that's all that really matters.

I'm speculating that it will be hard-drive based. If you look at the specs, the battery life is the same as the larger ipods. Flash based players consume WAY less electricity so if it was flash based, the battery life would be much longer (even though the mini battery is probably smaller).

Reasons why I'm buying the mini:

6.1008 vs 3.6 cubic inches - a 41% reduction in volume.

I'm asian and it's built into my genes that smaller = sexy when it comes to electronic gadgets:D

I'm a PC laptop user and a bundled USB 2.0 cable is great. No need to go buy a firewire pcmcia.

White ipod good, silver aluminum ipod even better.

The cheapest 512mb flash mp3 player was the iRiver 390T at bestbuy for $200 after rebates on Black Friday. I hate rebates, and for $50 more, I can get an ipod at 4G.

Educational discount, target sale, bestbuy sale, will make it cheaper than the $250 msrp.

I paid extra and got a BMW.

Again, if you're not happy with the new pricing, pay the $50 more for the 15G. No one is stopping you.

jettredmont
Jan 6, 2004, 02:55 PM
Originally posted by SpamJunkie
I want to be the first to point out that NeatGekko scooped everyone on this. He had the size and the price correct.



And claimed quite vehemently that it was Flash-based ... so maybe we'll let him by with just eating two fingers off his right hand ...

1macker1
Jan 6, 2004, 02:55 PM
And why in the hell didnt they offer a black mini?

SWC
Jan 6, 2004, 02:55 PM
still no running, f consistent shock is detected once the buffer runs out it will stop playing, transfer speed is slower, card reader and mic are not supported.

hayesk
Jan 6, 2004, 02:55 PM
Originally posted by hayesk
No offence, but you people who think it's overpriced are extremely short-sighted.

The mini comes with a dock, a case, armband, remote control - all things the 15GB doesn't have. So, no, spending $50 more won't get you the same thing with 11 more GBs.


Oops - I was wrong - it doesn't come with all that - the keynote report I read was mistaken. Regardless, given the size, I don't think there's a lot of room to move with respect to price. Maybe $20 - $30.

Spades
Jan 6, 2004, 02:56 PM
Wait a second. There's yet another mp3 player out there that costs $249. How does the iPod mini compete with this (http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/dj_15?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs)?

At $249 there are already competing 4 gig and 15 gig players. Why couldn't Apple have leap-frogged the competition and made a cheaper player, even if it had less capacity? Remind me again which market the mini is supposed to compete with.

JrdBeau
Jan 6, 2004, 02:56 PM
Well, if the mini-ipod really DOES use the Hitachi Microdrive, then I can understand the $250 price point.

The 4GB Hitachi drive sells for $500+ by itself.

So does this mean that Apple is losing $250 on each mini it sells?

skymac
Jan 6, 2004, 02:57 PM
Well I think i may consider selling my ten and getting a 15 gig iPod now. I have more music than i initially thought.

legion
Jan 6, 2004, 02:58 PM
Originally posted by merge
I am disapointed with the price.. BUT..

The mini comes with a Dock, Belt clip, and an armband..
with an estimated value of $70.

You do not get any of that with the 15GB iPod.
So it is not really a $50 difference.. it is more like $120 if you wanted the extras.

They really should have offered a 2GB for $200.. or $159 without the extras.

Dock and Arm Band are not included. They are extras.

1macker1
Jan 6, 2004, 02:59 PM
And why was the arm band for the mini released. It looks stupid.

Rex44
Jan 6, 2004, 02:59 PM
Originally posted by hayesk
No offence, but you people who think it's overpriced are extremely short-sighted.

The mini comes with a dock, a case, armband, remote control - all things the 15GB doesn't have.

No it does not.

http://www.apple.com/ipod/specs.html

I guess I am one of those "short sighted" people who also sees it as being $50 too high. To me, there is a fundamental incongruency here in that Apple produces products and software "for the rest of us", yet at prices that really are unaffordable for most people.

I do trust however trust that this decision has undergone some pretty heavy analysis so as ensure it won't hurt sales of their existing line and yet be saleable itself. I think they will sell fairly well (ESPECIALLY the pink!), but if I were a gambler I would bet on them lowering the price somewhat in the months to come.

Stoffel
Jan 6, 2004, 03:01 PM
It's a pity, that we have to wait until
April to buy one of the minis. My daughter likes the pink one.

1macker1
Jan 6, 2004, 03:02 PM
If i can get a blet clip for the reg. iPod, then i'll get the 15G for 50 bucks more.

sparks9
Jan 6, 2004, 03:02 PM
This thing will probably sell just as well as the big iPod. Remember that the small size costs alot of money.
It costs exactly the same as the just released rio nitrus (which has the same capasity) but it's way cooler.

At 150 it would have taken the rest of the mp3player market tho...

RStone
Jan 6, 2004, 03:03 PM
For all you who think the new iPod mini is too expensive, just go hunt down the competition. Maybe then you'll understand the price point (even if it does seem confusing next to the low end iPod):

http://creativex.creative.com/products/listCategoriesAndProducts.asp?idCategory=3&idSubCategory=20

The closest thing Creative has sells for over $500. As for Rio:

http://www.digitalnetworksna.com/shop/_templates/cat_list_Rio.asp?cat=53

1.5 Gb is the closest at $219. $30 difference.

Steve pointed it out very clearly. He's targeting the HIGH END FLASH PLAYER market. Not the dirt cheap market. And in the high end market, it's very competitively priced if you take a moment to look around.

titaniumducky
Jan 6, 2004, 03:03 PM
I think the pricing was deliberate:

People attracted to the high-end flash market will look to the iPod Mini. Very few will actually buy this; instead they will then see that they get 11GB more for $50 more. Applying the same logic that convinced them to spend $50 more to get the iPod Mini, they will spend another $50 more to move to the iPod market.

elgruga
Jan 6, 2004, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by Rex44

I do trust however trust that this decision has undergone some pretty heavy analysis so as ensure it won't hurt sales of their existing line and yet be saleable itself. I think they will sell fairly well (ESPECIALLY the pink!), but if I were a gambler I would bet on them lowering the price somewhat in the months to come.

Agreed.

The price is set to cover the range of prospective buyers who may also, at some point, buy into an Apple computer.

Of course, the smallness of the new iPod will sell plenty.

Smaller is usually more expensive, too.

I like all the announcements today, I am a bit sorry to see so much moaning and whining on these boards......

slowtreme
Jan 6, 2004, 03:04 PM
Yeah Maybe Steve knows something I don't, but if I'm not spending 299 on a 15 gig iPod, I'm not spending 249 on a 4gig either.

Conversely, it looks like they are killing thier iPod-mini market by pricing it only $50 away from the real thing. with 11 gigs more.

I would probably go pick up a Rio Nitrus 1.5 now, but now I can't see spending 219 if the 4gig Nitris and the 4gig Ipod are only 30 more :( I was really looking forward to a 2gig < $199 iPod.

allonzoallegro
Jan 6, 2004, 03:05 PM
still no running, f consistent shock is detected once the buffer runs out it will stop playing, transfer speed is slower, card reader and mic are not supported.

Um, so in terms of functionality, does the mini offer any advantages other than being slightly smaller or are sales going to subsist on the coolness factor (which is fine, it just doesn't usually sustain a product to dominate a market, the way Jobs said he wants to do)?

Seems to me like they are using the successful niche strategy (i.e. I'm buying a BMW) while claiming to be shooting for the whole market. I guess its fine to go from the top-down and establish yourself in quality and slowly work down to a sub-200 level...I just think that point should be reached sooner rather than later (even if it is in 2GB form, which would be perfectly acceptable with the 4GB at $250)

mainemike
Jan 6, 2004, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by iChan
i'm just annoyed about the fact that apple didn't announce anything that really set the world on fire... i was so psyched about this keynote, and turned out to be quite dull actually.

Agreed.
I thought WAY too much time was spent on the iLife demos...and the longer it went on, the more it became clear that this Keynote wasn't really going to deliver the "just one more thing" wow factor.

(Apologies to those who feel the iPod mini was such an announcement...but I interpreted the overall crowd response in the Moscone Center to be one of vague disappointment, and I'm not the only one.)

I guess we'll just have to wait and see what the "cool things we'll announce throughout the year" are.

Garage Band looks cool though. And 2 hours of DVD video with iDVD4? Not bad at all. I'll take it!

Dahl
Jan 6, 2004, 03:05 PM
The price might not be as good as most had hoped, but Apple makes very sexy products and sometimes that is enough.
These will probably sell like hotcakes, based on their looks alone.

Gizmotoy
Jan 6, 2004, 03:06 PM
I've read through most of the pages, and such, but I haven't heard this mentioned. If you're prepared to order the iPod Mini now, you can get free engraving. It doesn't say anywhere how long that will last, though. At least this is the case through the Education Store (where it is, as mentioned before, $229).

Solver
Jan 6, 2004, 03:06 PM
$249 is too much for me. Looks like they want to sell more 15GB units at $299.

Also, if you look at the Apple store, those new iPod options like the voice recorder and media reader and such are NOT available for the mini iPod.

At $199 they'd get me sold.

At $149 they'd have the world sold.

At $99 they'd lose money on each unit but could make it up in volume.

greenstork
Jan 6, 2004, 03:07 PM
Originally posted by RStone
For all you who think the new iPod mini is too expensive, just go hunt down the competition. Maybe then you'll understand the price point (even if it does seem confusing next to the low end iPod):

http://creativex.creative.com/products/listCategoriesAndProducts.asp?idCategory=3&idSubCategory=20

The closest thing Creative has sells for over $500. As for Rio:

http://www.digitalnetworksna.com/shop/_templates/cat_list_Rio.asp?cat=53

1.5 Gb is the closest at $219. $30 difference.

Steve pointed it out very clearly. He's targeting the HIGH END FLASH PLAYER market. Not the dirt cheap market. And in the high end market, it's very competitively priced if you take a moment to look around.

Another poster pointed out that the 15GB Dell DJ at $249 is a much better deal per GB. While they can't compete on style, many lower income buyers see value as more important.

ccuilla
Jan 6, 2004, 03:10 PM
Stay with me for a minute...

I was disappointed about the price as well. At first. But now I think I understand.

Apple probably doesn't see a need to make the price $199 (or $149) IMMEDIATELY. But watch for them to drive the price of this down. They have made iPod slightly more accessible to more people. They are probably still dealing with cost issues. These take time to drive down. Watch for this guy to be $199 (or less) by Christmas 2004. In time to sweep the rest of the market.

They probably figure that there won't be a lot of buying over the first 9 months of the year...so they'll get the "early adopters" of iPod Mini (a dumb name, I think). Then start to drive the price down...first $229...then...$199...etc.

They probably have room to move on this.

Think about it. Everyone thought Apple was crazy when they (originally) came out with the iPod. Crazy like a fox it turns out.

I think Apple is quite aware of their market opportunities and seems less likely to squander it this time.

zimen
Jan 6, 2004, 03:11 PM
You know what?

I live in Italy. Only 2 months ago $249 would have ment €249 euros. Today it is €195 euros!!!! that's cool!!! it is as if you paid it 195 dollars!! Watch out on ebay for speculators.


Simon

neeotronik
Jan 6, 2004, 03:15 PM
I have never seen anything like this; Everyone is obviously disappointed. Everyone keeps talking about the rio player for 249.00. There's a Dell player for 249.00 also and it competes with the 15gb ipod.
The only killer here is ITUNES. It's so dope and it only works with the Ipod. Musicmatch and napster are reason enough to stay away from Dell.

Apple really messed up with the 249.00 mini-pod. C'mon people; this is a monumental failure!!!!

humangod
Jan 6, 2004, 03:15 PM
Originally posted by gerardrj
Noooo.
Steve stated that the iPod mini was going to compete for the high end flash market.
Steve specifically stated that the low-end flash market is not a place to play. Their research shows that people toss $50 players in the drawer and never use them because they hold so few songs.

From personal experience I know this to be the case. I was given a Rio 64MB player and only used it a few times, it was pointless to only carry 12 songs on it. I use my 5GB iPod most every day.


40 year old mom who's buying an ipod to work out with, or to carry her tunes around with is not looking at "flash" or hard drive" in an mp3 player. she has no clue what either mean. she's looking at how much the player costs, and how many songs it can hold. when she sees the ipod mini costing $249, and holds 1000 songs, she'll then take a look at this:

http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/ref=br_1_2/602-5351964-9981405?asin=B00009QSET

and then she'll say, "oh hey! this one holds 10 times as many songs, and it only costs 50 dollars more. and hey! look at that! it has a built in radio tuner with it!!"

she's not going to care if it has flash memory or a hard drive, so shut up and quit saying "high end flash player." she has no clue the mini ipod is a "high end flash player."

the point is, apple made an mp3 player that costs $50 less than a high end mp3 player, but holds significantly less songs than other mp3 players in it's price range. what the hell is the point in that? we're still not going to get the person who is only willing to spend </= $150.

steve showed a graph chart. he showed that the ipod has something like %37 of the market share in mp3 players. he said he wanted to go for the rest of the market share. he said nothing about "high end flash player market." there's a reason the ipod only has %37 market share. not everyone is willing to dish out more than 200 bucks for an mp3 player!!

we still HAVE NOT penetrated the entire mp3 player market spectrum. we're still only in the expensive, high end market range. and, it's worthless for its cost. it holds 50-75% LESS than similar products in its price range. i think most can agree that $249 and $299 is in the same price range. again, what is the point of this thing? steve said the point of it was to pierce the the rest of the market, but this can't do it. it's still just another ipod. an ipod that now is pretty much the same price, but holds a whole lot less songs. sure it may be smaller, but hey, its big brother already weighs less than two cd cases and is already almost too small for most men with big hands. it was already small enough. its price does not justify what it can do. it holds 4GB of songs. for $50 more, you can get an mp3 player from a different company that hold 40 GB of songs.

and btw, i don't care what YOU want in an mp3 player. i don't care that you wasted your money on a 64 MB mp3 player. there's a market out there for somoene who wants an mp3 player to hold 2 or 3 hours worth of music. i'm in that market! and i'll be buying something from that market very soon. steve said he wanted my market share, but he's not going to get it now.

i'd be fine if apple didn't try to advertise this for the lower end mp3 market. because it's not a low end mp3 player. it's a high end mp3 player, with low storage capacities, and the same price as other mp3 players that hold more songs.

all apple did was re-relase the original ipod with a new look and 50 bucks off. show me how it's different. this will not help gain market share.

1macker1
Jan 6, 2004, 03:15 PM
why do some many people give a ***** about apple making money, they sure as hell dont seem to care about u saving any.

VicMacs
Jan 6, 2004, 03:16 PM
heres what i think the mini Stikes OUT

199 should have been the price, theyd be 199 richer on my account, now theyre 249 poorer, no way no how im NOT getting one NOW. So thinks 50%+ of the people here.Strike ONE

4gb compared to 15GB is a major disappointment. for me and for the rest of us mac users... we want an ipod for music/data transfer... 4gb wont hold much data if you have 800 songs which i find normal. 15 GB ipod will. Stike TWO

Having to spend over 300 dollars to get an ipod mini to BE COOL (dock and nice earbuds) is not in a mother's mind when thinking of what to get for her 14 year old brat/ee (which is for me the target of the minis with these CoLoRs). So there Apple BIG STIKE THREE TO START 2004!

i was hoping for a change, something worthy of a 20th anniversary... a 20th anniversary present for us, the macusers.

you're out!

Mav451
Jan 6, 2004, 03:18 PM
i guess it's the consumer group they are targeting. Almost NONE of my friends, who use windows, has one because they all complain about one thing--Apple hardware has been consistently expensive.

I only have one friend who bought it, the 40gig of course for a ridiculous 500 dollars. The same guy just a month or so ago sold his old PBook just b/c a newer had come out. He also has a Raid setup of with SCSI drives (the card alone was more than 200 dollars).

So one hand, i have the friend who enjoys spending over $1000 a month, and spends easily over $5000 on his audiophile equipment. On the other hand, i have friends who are in engineering schools that cannot think of spending that kind of money on a portable device.

I guess with Apple staying out of the value market completely, they will always enjoy healthy revenues and avoiding the more cut-throat value segment (but also restricting themselves to niche markets).

Obviously a cheaper iPod would have opened up more possibilities. Apple missed their chance on something big. Now one thing i absolutely hate is being force fed accessories. One user below says that we are getting quite a deal b/c it includes such and such. How if i DON'T want such and such? Think about it in a car sense. There is only one kind of car available in your price range, a Civic. Unfortunately all Civics come with a sun roof, which adds 2000 dollars to it. Unfortunately that 2000 dollars pushes the Civic's original price from 13k to 15k. Too bad, it's now out of your price range.

svenas1
Jan 6, 2004, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by SpamJunkie

Do you think Steve will ever learn? Cube? G4s? Mini iPods? No he won't. Apple products won't be reasonably priced until Steve Jobs leaves Apple.

To all the guys saying this 249 is too much.. This is Apple, folks !! If you can get a b*tt-ugly RCA Lyra (1.5 GB) for the same price, or a Dell DJ... please !! I also don't have 250 to throw away - but you bet I'm getting one! These are just too cool to pass up. It will nicely complement my 12" PowerBook.

humangod
Jan 6, 2004, 03:21 PM
Originally posted by fcpguy
I mean no disrespect but, perhaps you are the clueless one...Steve didn't say he wanted to go after the low end mp3 player market, he said he wanted to go after the high end flash based player market.....try listening and comprehending a bit before you write a page long tirade.

Plus, can someone please explain to me why everyone is so pissed off??? Relax, it's just a product.....I'm pretty pissed off that plasma screen TV's are still astronomical in price, but I don't have a heart attack over it. If you want a well engineered piece of technology that also has a "cool factor" then there's going to be a higher price to pay....otherwise, go buy some piece of crap that'll meet your needs and be pissed off that you don't have what you want because you didn't want to spend a few extra bucks or you couldn't afford it....I'm tired of you people that think Apple should all of a sudden cater to the low end....they shouldn't and we shouldn't expect it either......Apple is what it is and I don't understand why some people here are constantly whining about them not becoming the next Dell or Gateway...and if they did you all would be complaining that Apple doesn't make the cool innovative products that we've all come to know and love. You can't have it both ways.....

maybe "you" want to read what i said and try to comprehoend it before you run your mouth off. i said steve wanted to go after the low end cheap-o mp3 player market. any flash player IS a low end mp3 player. what i said was exactly correct. now shut up.

steve showed a graph representing the mp3 players.. he showed the rest of the market that apple does not own. he said apple wants to get into that market.

how is a 50 dollar off ipod going to do that?

PretendPCuser
Jan 6, 2004, 03:22 PM
I'd have loved to see a $99, or $149, or even $199 iPod. But can you imagine how much money Apple would be losing to have a $99 iPod? If there profit margin is 50% on the mini's at $250, their cost is $125, sell them at $100 and lose $25 PER UNIT!!! Cripes, stockholders would be begging them NOT to sell them.

People, this is the profit making arena, Apple isn't going to give this away, cause if they did, say goodbye to the iTunes music store, cause that's a losing proposition as well. Apple has to make money.

Maybe their engineers were stuck in the Jurassic Park Loop. They were too busy thinking whether they could make it smaller, but forgot to ask whether they SHOULD make it smaller and then sell it for $250. We'll see how well they did their research and if people are willing to pay that price.

Now, have to go read the rest of the thread and see how many other people said the exact same thing.

Fender2112
Jan 6, 2004, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by dbenwoods
... At $249 for 4 gigs, it is very strong against a Rio Cali 256Mb, going for $199 - in this scenario, the argument is, "why not spend an extra $50 for 16 times the music, plus the cool factor. And the interface is - oh about a thousand times better... And it syncs with iCal. And it holds contact info. And it holds txt notes. And it has games." ...


For myself and others like me, $199 for 60 songs is not the argument - never was. I never planned to spend $199 for 256MB when I can get 10 GB (old price) for $299. My problem is justifing $299 for a personal music device. The price of the mini leaves me in the same position. I will NOT spend $199 for 256 MB. I MIGHT spend $249 for 4 GB. But I'm better off spending $299 for 15 GB. What I really want is 40 GB for $499. But then I could get a new set of wheels for my mountain bike. But if I spend $500 for wheels I might as well get a new bike. ... then I could get a new house.

Anyone got a Snickers? I'm not going anywhere for a while.

srobert
Jan 6, 2004, 03:22 PM
Anybody tought about this?:

Mr. X argue that he might as well get a 15 Gig iPod. 15 Gig iPod is advertised to hold 3,700 songs. Thats 3,700 99¢ legally purchased songs. This amounts to $3,663 worth of music.

Well. I think that if mr. X can afford to purchase more than $3,500 worth of music he should'nt be so picky on the iPod mini price.

Just my 2 mini cents.

bokdol
Jan 6, 2004, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by jettredmont
And claimed quite vehemently that it was Flash-based ... so maybe we'll let him by with just eating two fingers off his right hand ...

he actually reported that it was HD based

from his quote

"MINI IPOD FACTS

MINI IPOD FACTS:

They are going to be HD based but loaded with RAM so it won't skip.

They will ship with multiple colors.

Small...comes with an armband for runners.

NOT $100!!! Are you kidding me! isights aren't even that cheap! This is Apple we are talking about! Its gunna be good. Look for the price to drop around $250.

And now for the size: NO 2BG (weak) Apple will show off a nice 4.5 GB in multiple colors. 2 models in muli color is a nightmare. They will have the one size only.

Some of you may laugh, but this is whats coming...believe it or not. Its fact now. I will smile on the 6th when I turn out to be EXACTLY right. Who else believes me? I will smile again when I'm right and you're wrong. PEACE"

srobert
Jan 6, 2004, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by neeotronik
Apple really messed up with the 249.00 mini-pod. C'mon people; this is a monumental failure!!!!

Let's not be too hasty. We have no data for now to base this assumption on. Let's wait for the next quarter sales results before talking about the failure/succes of the iPod mini.

jb3designs
Jan 6, 2004, 03:26 PM
Why can't Apple just go ahead and make them $199. Wouldn't the money generated from buying songs off iTunes over the life of the player offset the money lost? No guarantee of buying songs off iTunes but it is most likely. The iPod/iTunes market share overall would surely increase.

slowtreme
Jan 6, 2004, 03:26 PM
Originally posted by Solver
At $99 they'd lose money on each unit but could make it up in volume.

HAHAHA :) That made my day. I feel so much better now.

Kid Red
Jan 6, 2004, 03:27 PM
Originally posted by Juventuz
The 15 gig iPod at $299 is nice, but the new 4 Gig iPod at $249 is where they dropped the ball.

I'm sorry, but I don't see the point in having a 4 gig iPod that's only $50 cheaper than a 15 gig iPod. If they wanted to cut into the Rio players and others then they should have offered it at $199.

I totally disagree. The Rio is $249, the iPodmini is $249. The iPod comes in colors, arm band, dock and is small, light and very cool.

This is for those who think $300 is too much, now we have thats a little smaller. I don't see the bitch other then those who are mad it's not cheaper. You do get a lot more for $50, that will only help boost the sales of the 15gb iPod. Big whoop, just more ipods to sell and take up the market.

humangod
Jan 6, 2004, 03:27 PM
Originally posted by srobert
Anybody tought about this?:

Mr. X argue that he might as well get a 15 Gig iPod. 15 Gig iPod is advertised to hold 3,700 songs. Thats 3,700 99¢ legally purchased songs. This amounts to $3,663 worth of music.

Well. I think that if mr. X can afford to purchase more than $3,500 worth of music he should'nt be so picky on the iPod mini price.

Just my 2 mini cents.

so i have to load up my ipod ONLY with songs i buy from the itunes music store? or can't i use the songs i already own? from my collection over 22 years?

pjkelnhofer
Jan 6, 2004, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by svenas1
I also don't have 250 to throw away - but you bet I'm getting one! These are just too cool to pass up. It will nicely complement my 12" PowerBook.
I hate to disagree, but if you are getting one just because it is "cool." You do have $250 to throw away.

nhradrag
Jan 6, 2004, 03:29 PM
The price is not so bad.

Even if it was $199. Everyone would wine that that was too much, it should be $149.

blah blah blah. Don't like it Don't buy it.

1macker1
Jan 6, 2004, 03:30 PM
ahahaha, yeah they are these thing out called CD's. They were real popular before all the Music Stores started popping up.
Originally posted by humangod
so i have to load up my ipod ONLY with songs i buy from the itunes music store? or can't i use the songs i already own? from my collection over 22 years?

VicMacs
Jan 6, 2004, 03:31 PM
Originally posted by Kid Red
I totally disagree. The Rio is $249, the iPodmini is $249. The iPod comes in colors, arm band, dock and is small, light and very cool.



No dock No dock No dock No dock No dock No dock No dock No dock No dock No dock No dock No dock No dock No dock No dock No dock No dock No dock No dock No dock

textbook
Jan 6, 2004, 03:31 PM
very dissappointing. i feel like they dropped the ball big time. hopefully it will bowb and they will reposition the price.

so much for the "low end".

VicMacs
Jan 6, 2004, 03:32 PM
Originally posted by nhradrag
The price is not so bad.

Even if it was $199. Everyone would wine that that was too much, it should be $149.

blah blah blah. Don't like it Don't buy it.

Now here's someone who did not understand why things were advedertised for 19.95 on those cheap blue tvads... because a 1 in front of whatever sells more tna a 2!

srobert
Jan 6, 2004, 03:33 PM
Originally posted by humangod
so i have to load up my ipod ONLY with songs i buy from the itunes music store? or can't i use the songs i already own? from my collection over 22 years?

I removed the part about the "solid" CDs form my post to keep it short but I originally intended to mention that those were even more expensive that 99¢ a song due to printimg and manufacturing costs. Yes, you are absolutly free and welcomed to put those on you iPod classic or mini.

It's getting harder and harder these days to write precise enough a post without being picked upon. Even when not using names. ^_^ No hard feelings. Forums are all about exchange of opinions.

Originally posted by VicMacs
i was hoping for a change, something worthy of a 20th anniversary... a 20th anniversary present for us, the macusers.


Let's not worry too much. 2004 is only 6 days old. Still 359 days too go. I'm pretty sure Apple can come up with a nice surpirse in the following months.

Gizmotoy
Jan 6, 2004, 03:33 PM
Originally posted by VicMacs
No dock No dock No dock No dock No dock No dock No dock No dock No dock No dock No dock No dock No dock No dock No dock No dock No dock No dock No dock No dock

I totally agree. Where is everyone getting the idea that the dock and armband are included? Was the keynote (which I didn't watch) not clear? The website simply states the dock and armband are OPTIONAL.

JoeRadar
Jan 6, 2004, 03:35 PM
Beyond the general disappointment (iPod mini too big and too expensive, no move to 90nm chips, no speed bump, no iBox, etc.), I think what really stood out to me was the lack of enthusiasm.

I felt Steve Jobs' heart wasn't into today's performance.

ReneB
Jan 6, 2004, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by zimen
You know what?

I live in Italy. Only 2 months ago $249 would have ment €249 euros. Today it is €195 euros!!!! that's cool!!! it is as if you paid it 195 dollars!! Watch out on ebay for speculators.


Simon

If only that were true... prices are kept artificially high, and there are taxes.

The price of a 15GB iPod in The Netherlands is EUR 349,- including 19% VAT. That would be... EUR 280,- ex. VAT or 350 USD. In the US you pay 299,- USD.

I would therefore expect the minipod to be around EUR 300 including taxes.

kryten2000
Jan 6, 2004, 03:37 PM
If you compare the minis to the current then it makes sense to go for the 15 gig for 50 more, but remember if you look at some of the $200 flashed based players then 250 for a quality mp3 player is a much better choice.Its gonna be interesting if this will actually sell or become like the cube.I certainly dont regret my 20 gig purchase now.

VicMacs
Jan 6, 2004, 03:37 PM
Originally posted by Kid Red
I totally disagree. The Rio is $249, the iPodmini is $249. The iPod comes in colors, arm band, dock and is small, light and very cool.


No arm band No arm band No arm band No arm band No arm band No arm band No arm band No arm band No arm band No arm band No arm band No arm band

dho
Jan 6, 2004, 03:37 PM
Steve doesnt wanna sell iPod Minis

Steve doesnt wanna sell the mini iPods. He pisses people off, but spreads the 50 off rationale. He is trying to sell more 15 gig normal iPods.

Sure the minis will draw some busines, but until the price is lowed, it is just gunna be used to bridge the gap between 200 and 300 and get more people to buy 15 gigers.

as in "hmm mom look ipods now $250"
"thats good, but you MIGHT AS WELL just by a (normal) iPod"

besides the Profit margins on the iPod minis will likely be even smaller because of the extra eingineering due to the new form factor.

This may piss off apple fans, but it is in no way gunna lose business for apple.

An iPod for a more expensive iPod.


It pisses me off too, but I am very content with my new 20giger :)

srobert
Jan 6, 2004, 03:38 PM
I think the iPod size is limited by the display and award winning jog wheel.

Smaller would make it worst in my humble and arguable opinion.

Anybody knows if the smaller screen can display as many characters horizontally? Was the pixel size simply reduced or did we lose some pixels? Just curious.

rt_brained
Jan 6, 2004, 03:38 PM
I think we were all expecting Apple to really stick it to the competition. Yet I think most folks are right here.

If you listened to the Keynote, you notice the audience's reaction is pretty subdued when he announced the $249 price.

And the argument Steve makes for spending $50 more for 4GB is the same justification for blowing off the iPod Mini for the 15Gig'er.

Contrarily, I think if he'd announced a 2GB iPod Mini for $199, with or without a base station, I'd be willing to bet the place would have erupted. Psychologically, the 4GB is overkill, compared to a 256MB device and $199 is about the threshold price between small MP3 players and the iPod line. At $249, it's hard not to just opt for the low-end iPod.

the_mole1314
Jan 6, 2004, 03:38 PM
Mr. Gekko, I'm sorry I didn't be nicer towards you. You are the winner, I'm the looser. I just want to say I'm going to talk a lot to my "source" tomorrow.....

jbembe
Jan 6, 2004, 03:39 PM
"What baffles me completely is that they barely touched the normal iPod line. Who would pay $399 for a 20 when $299 gets you 15? And I am still waiting for a > 40GB size. My collection is over 50GB, and I HATE not being able to autosync"

WORD!!!!!!!!!! I would love to autosync my 45gigs.


The accesories do count for something, though. I bet they upped to 15 so they can avoid the cannabilization of the lower iPod, by making the size more attractive.


I'm not sure this will eat into flash players since no one has tested how this thing performs when running. Its one thing to sell it with an armband, quite another to actually run with it and experience no skipping.

250 is pretty fat, but I'm guessing that they are banking on the pepsi commercials starting an iTunes/iPod explosion and that form factor/coolness will carry these players out the door.

Besides just how many people legally own anywhere near 40 gigs of music? Even if they do, how many of them HAVE to have all of their music on their player at once? With a CD player you had to change the disc each time. With 4 gigs it will still take quite some time to listen to the music before needing to change out songs.

allonzoallegro
Jan 6, 2004, 03:41 PM
Even if it was $199. Everyone would wine that that was too much, it should be $149.

blah blah blah. Don't like it Don't buy it.

That's the common refraint if you're part of the apple community. But let's face it, Jobs is trying to get outside of the Apple community, or so he says. Therefore, the iPod cannot be evaluated in the same context as the rest of the Apple product line, because the goals simply aren't the same. The iPods, by Jobs own admission, have to appeal to a different type of consumer. Therefore, you can't just dismiss the complaining.

Rather, the only way this is a rational approach is if they introduce a cheaper model in the near future, say by April (so there is enough time for them to be graduation presents). Then, Apple can gouge people for the cool factor (which they've done for years to some degree) and the Apple faithful (some portion of which will be willing to shill out the money rather than wait just because of their allegiance to Apple) and hopefully be able to produce a volume product under $200 by spring. Getting under that benchmark seems to be the key (note that the WSJ journal article specifically talked about a sub-$200 player...why? Because a lot of people are going to be able going over that mark).

If Apple isn't under $200 in three months, they are squandering, to some degree though not catastrophically, the momentum they have now and the opportunity to dominate the market immediately.

mullmann
Jan 6, 2004, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by edesignuk
Yes they are very nice, yes they are smaller, yes they are "cool", yes they are a rip off!!!!! Please, anyone with half a brain will pay another $50 for 15GB.

...I don't get it...

Are these the same people that expected it to cost $199 and are now refusing to pay that same extra $50 to get it at $249?

1macker1
Jan 6, 2004, 03:41 PM
Steve said it came with a dock, belt clip, and arm band. But he must have ment them as options.
Originally posted by Gimzotoy
I totally agree. Where is everyone getting the idea that the dock and armband are included? Was the keynote (which I didn't watch) not clear? The website simply states the dock and armband are OPTIONAL.

Codemonkey
Jan 6, 2004, 03:43 PM
Originally posted by merge
I am disapointed with the price.. BUT..

The mini comes with a Dock, Belt clip, and an armband..
with an estimated value of $70.

No it doesn't - the dock and armband are optional... where'd you ASSume they'd be included? :-P

Whooo - 10 pages already? Yikes! If I had time to read to the end, I woulda noticed that it's been addressed already. Sorry for the redundancy folks.

GrandMan
Jan 6, 2004, 03:43 PM
When jobs was showing the stats of the rio (coincidence that rio is the competitor for the iPod mini and it is showed as a "bad" company here) he showed the price of 199 bucks. I was like sweet hes going to compare it with this new product at the same price. But when he said 50 bucks more i was so annoyed. It would of been such an uproar if it had been these sweet specs for the same price as the other player in comparision, thus 199 bucks.

VicMacs
Jan 6, 2004, 03:44 PM
Originally posted by mullmann
Are these the same people that expected it to cost $199 and are now refusing to pay that same extra $50 to get it at $249?

Yes we are the same ones. Im not paying extra to get a dock and armband and cool earbuds!

pjkelnhofer
Jan 6, 2004, 03:44 PM
Originally posted by bokdol
...And now for the size: NO 2BG (weak) Apple will show off a nice 4.5 GB in multiple colors. 2 models in muli color is a nightmare. They will have the one size only...
You bring up an interesting point. Would the sell more with two sizes and two colors rather than one size and five colors?

Steven1621
Jan 6, 2004, 03:45 PM
i must echo the thoughts of everyone else in saying that $249 is totally absurd. what in the world is apple thinking? i couldn't believe my eyes when i saw it. hopefully that will be corrected by the next macworld, and the will put out the pb g5 to make up for the this sillyness ;)

georgeIII
Jan 6, 2004, 03:45 PM
People might be disappointed with the price, but I don't see a lot of good business arguments against it.

I think this is the thinking behind the $249:

1. Same as the 4 GB Rio. The minipod is nicer, and looks much cooler. The iPod is a hot brand name. People will choose the iPod over that product, for the same price. I haven't seen the new Rio player, but I'm guessing it will look like a hunk of junk next to these slick minipods.

2. Apple WILL come out with new versions of this, and perhaps lower priced versions. Apple is considered a high-end brand, and they actually need to be careful about protecting that, so they need to be careful about under-pricing. Aggressively pricing their products has never been part of the Apple business model, and there is no reason to expect them to change that now.

3. Sure it's only $50 less than the 15 GB iPod, but look at it! Don't underestimate the number of people who are going to think about how cool they look with one of these things in the gym. I'll bet you a lot of people would pay $300 for that thing.

4. Prices are determined by demand. If it doesn't sell at $249, they'll drop the price. If anything is going to put a drag on sales, it's the huge sales from last quarter.

vitrector
Jan 6, 2004, 03:46 PM
I think the iPod mini is an awesome little thing, and in many ways worth the $249.00. However, it is not worth it to me, the size and weight reduction is not worth only $50 cheaper, AND 11 GB smaller. $199.00 is definitely the price point Apple should have gone for.
As is, it will not be a flash player killer, it is too expensive. Apple could really try and do things right for the future by offering a product that truly competes with the low end or at least middle [flash] MP3 player market, and thus capture the non-committed (committed as in which DRM, file format they are using). With the proliferating of proprietary file and DRM formats, people will be locked down to use whichever format they end up buying their songs in. Since iTunes does not support .wma, and many of the cheap players do, Rhapsody etc. music services will lock consumers out of the iTunes music store.
Until there is inter-operability of the music files/players Apple should bend over backwards to get market share. But then again, Apple is best at providing good ideas/innovation to business savvy companies, and not at gaining market share of their own.
It's just so sad....

[edited for clarity and spelling]

dho
Jan 6, 2004, 03:47 PM
Just like the usb 2 and firewire, the armband is included. Are you dumb or something. He may have a reality distortion field, but that cant stop people for suing him for false advertising.

Just as he stated, the accesories are comming with it. And yes I can ASSume this

Photorun
Jan 6, 2004, 03:47 PM
When Steve said the price you could have heard a pin drop, people there were like all excited, anticipating a REALISTIC price like $149 or $199 maybe high end, but NOOOO!!! Typical Apple, more proof Jobs doesn't get it, most consumers don't have $249 lying around, then again, if you're given lear jets money isn't a concept. And yeah some people blah blah profit margin blah, believe me, they were already making as much as 50% margin/mark up on the previous iPods, these things are probably that or more, this price is joke.

HEAR ME APPLE, YOUR PRICE FOR THIS IS A JOKE!!!

$199 would have been a bit much, good though, good enough. $249... phaw!

pjkelnhofer
Jan 6, 2004, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by mullmann
Are these the same people that expected it to cost $199 and are now refusing to pay that same extra $50 to get it at $249?
By that arguement why would anyone every buy anything but the most expensive product. At some point you just don't have the money. Apparently, in a lot of people minds, the $200 is more than want.

Torajima
Jan 6, 2004, 03:50 PM
The fact is, the ipod mini is ridicuously overpriced. Before the mini rumors even began, I fully expected an update to the iPod line at Macworld. Either price reductions across the board, or an increase in capacity.

We actually would have been better off if the minipods had NOT been released, as then Apple might have lowered the price on the 10 GB model to $250.

And why weren't the upper end models updated?

Apple should be selling the mini iPod at cost, and try to make their money on iTunes music downloads, rather than the hardware itself.