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MacRumors
Jan 6, 2004, 01:32 PM
Apple updated the Xserve today (http://www.apple.com/xserve/) to 2.0GHz G5 models.

The new models are either single or dual 2.0GHz G5s with Dual Gigabit Ethernet, up to 8GB of DDR SDRAM with ECC.

Xserve updates have been long overdue and have been anticipated since the release of the PowerMac G5s.

mkaake
Jan 6, 2004, 01:41 PM
finally - if you look on the xserve page... there's a little peak about xgrid... but the link to that page doesn't work yet :(... the new servers look sweet though -

matt

<edit>

<from apple.com/xserve/cluster>
Xgrid, new software from Apple’s Advanced Computation Group, is one of many solutions for Mac OS X that make managing a supercomputer as easy as Macintosh.

Powerbook G5
Jan 6, 2004, 01:43 PM
I can just hear new PowerBook G5 rumors cropping up now that the G5 has made it into this 1U form factor.

ionas
Jan 6, 2004, 01:44 PM
the duel 2.0 ghz ;)

hehe - he ll duel all those overpriced shiity x86 servers.

sun - u are gone? ;p (they produce crappy x86 servers afaik)

ionas
Jan 6, 2004, 01:47 PM
we can only hope that the mac rumors buyers guide isnt completely wrong this time and apple releases new versions of the desktop system within feburary and march.

:-<

TMay
Jan 6, 2004, 01:47 PM
I always wanted to get a dual G5 xServe for a workstation, but, I'm not certain that there are any good graphics cards that will work with the PCI-X. Anybody have any ideas?

Lanbrown
Jan 6, 2004, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by TMay
I always wanted to get a dual G5 xServe for a workstation, but, I'm not certain that there are any good graphics cards that will work with the PCI-X. Anybody have any ideas?

The only cards you will find are PCI or AGP and soon PCI-Express.

jbh001
Jan 6, 2004, 01:52 PM
The price difference between 2GB memory and 8GB memory on the Dual 2GHz Xserve is $1300; on the Dual 2GHz Power Mac it is $3900.

Right Hand, meet Left Hand.

Sun Baked
Jan 6, 2004, 01:58 PM
Looks like they deleted a PCI/AGP slot and a drive module, but the addition of ECC memory and the G5s should balance it quite nice.

Interesting to see the trio of SATA drives on the K2 controller this time around (the old ATA drives were PCI-to-ATA bridges), while the dual gig ethernet controllers take residence on the main PCI bus.

Of course this dual ethernet config frees up a PCI slot.

But the XServe now requires a PCI video card...

snahabed
Jan 6, 2004, 01:58 PM
I was just thinking this.

If Apple has found a way to cool all those 2ghz G5 processors in such a tiny enclosure, then how long can it be before we see G5 iMacs and powerbooks?

I love my G4 Powerbook, but it is awfully tough these days to advise that over a new iBook.

szark
Jan 6, 2004, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by mkaake
finally - if you look on the xserve page... there's a little peak about xgrid... but the link to that page doesn't work yet :(

Xgrid information is available on the Advanced Computation Group (http://www.apple.com/acg/) page.

dukemeiser
Jan 6, 2004, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by Macrumors
The new models are either single or duel 2.0GHz G5s

It should be "dual" (as in two) instead of "duel" (as in a fight). Unless the Xserve is pitting the two processors against each other...

Skull Leader
Jan 6, 2004, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by snahabed

If Apple has found a way to cool all those 2ghz G5 processors in such a tiny enclosure, then how long can it be before we see G5 iMacs and powerbooks?

Well, did Steve mention if those two new blow-holes shoot fire or not? :cool:

Rower_CPU
Jan 6, 2004, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by Powerbook G5
I can just hear new PowerBook G5 rumors cropping up now that the G5 has made it into this 1U form factor.

Cooling is still a major issue...until they put some huge vents in PowerBooks to match the Xserve. ;)

szark
Jan 6, 2004, 02:24 PM
Yeah, I wouldn't want those 7 FANS in my PowerBook!

akac
Jan 6, 2004, 02:25 PM
And remember, its not fans in the XServe but BLOWERS :)

wchamlet
Jan 6, 2004, 02:42 PM
I wonder if these are as loud as the Hoover serve G4's. :D

Anyway, I'm glad Apple has finally released an update Xserve. Even though our company already has an older model, so we're not in the market for a new one. The XRaid looks cool too. I can imagine as a video editor having that kind of storage... one can dream right?

sergeantmudd
Jan 6, 2004, 03:06 PM
That's right, the new XServes use the 90nm G5. I lifted this link off of arstechnica forums

XServe PDF (http://a192.g.akamai.net/7/192/51/0c5b0d0ef0f03b/www.apple.com/server/pdfs/L301323A_XserveG5_TO.pdf)

iPC
Jan 6, 2004, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by jbh001
The price difference between 2GB memory and 8GB memory on the Dual 2GHz Xserve is $1300; on the Dual 2GHz Power Mac it is $3900.

Right Hand, meet Left Hand.
1GB ECC stick (Micron) goes for $212 and up on pricewatch. That is $1696 worth of memory, minimum. Maybe this is the first sign of Apple pulling their collective heads out when talking about RAM pricing....?

sosumi
Jan 6, 2004, 03:29 PM
I would like to see Pixar buying a bunch of those...

Ge4-ce
Jan 6, 2004, 03:43 PM
quote: I would not like those 7 fans in a powerbook..

In fact, the tech. says there are 8 fans (blowers)

The 2 holes in front are NOT blowing fire,.. they are suckholes (pardon for the language) air is going from front to back..

And nobody mentioned something about noise!! I mean.. Servers are often used in a closed envirement where noise isn't often a problem. I predict these machines sound like a boeing.. The fans are only 1 u thick.. The ones in the Powermac G5 are more than double in size!

but still great servers!!

Photorun
Jan 6, 2004, 03:58 PM
not just great servers, awesome ones. And the $3 per GB for the RAID, I've priced servers, as price goes that a jaw dropper! Amazing. Go Apple!

manitoubalck
Jan 6, 2004, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by akac
And remember, its not fans in the XServe but BLOWERS :)

First off well done for getting it into a 1U case.

second: the term 'Blower', usually refers to a super charger on a car. While a hair dryer refers to turbo charging. Take this as you will.

Sun Baked
Jan 6, 2004, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by manitoubalck
First off well done for getting it into a 1U case.

second: the term 'Blower', usually refers to a super charger on a car. While a hair dryer refers to turbo charging. Take this as you will. Silly me, I though blowers were the HVAC air movement equipment.

dongmin
Jan 6, 2004, 04:31 PM
So how does the Xserve compare to the dual 2.0 ghz G5 in performance, in terms of gigaflops?

Supa_Fly
Jan 6, 2004, 04:40 PM
Oh man somebody give these things a paint job; it'll give the new Vette, 350Z, RX-8 a run for their money wehn it comes to styling.

However as these are quickly growing on me in terms of styling, I personally don't need them. Then again, I think going to a 2U rack standard would've allowed them to use 1 more in/out ports across, as well as keep or even surpass last years 4 HDD (all being S-ATA).

Still nice to know that 90 nanometer is being used.

Also good that PowerMac G5 updates weren't mentioned yet to steel the XServe's thunder.

Now these XServes need corporations to use them in along with FULL scalable software to customize use on them. By corporations I mean Cingular Wireless, Rogers AT&T Wireless (Canada), and you know MaBell.

VicMacs
Jan 6, 2004, 04:47 PM
powerbook G5 coming now for sure!

Rower_CPU
Jan 6, 2004, 05:27 PM
http://www.apple.com/xserve/design.html

Intelligent Heat Dissipation
...
To dissipate the heat it does produce, eight different blowers draw air from the front of the machine, across the processor(s) and out the back. You can monitor the temperature of your Xserve G5s from the Server Monitor software, which also displays the status of the eight fans. In the case of a single blower failure, the other fans speed up to compensate, allowing your server to keep running.

Skull Leader
Jan 6, 2004, 05:41 PM
Just make sure that your neck tie doesn't get to close to those 'suck-holes' when looking at those pretty blue lights...:eek:

rjstanford
Jan 6, 2004, 05:56 PM
Originally posted by Prom1
However as these are quickly growing on me in terms of styling, I personally don't need them. Then again, I think going to a 2U rack standard would've allowed them to use 1 more in/out ports across, as well as keep or even surpass last years 4 HDD (all being S-ATA). Personally, with the Xserve RAID I'd rather they came with just two hard disks (hardware RAID mirrored) for the OS. Or zero, and just boot it from the RAID itself.

Why? Well, first, I wouldn't want to store anything locally - that way, if it needs to be replaced, its not a big deal. So the local storage is a waste of disk space. Second, and most importantly, that might free up space internally for the second power supply that it is so desparately needing. And has been. And, before someone asks, dual power supplies are indeed available on most (all?) of the competitive intel-based 1U servers. And have been for quite a while now.

-Richard

RalphNumbers
Jan 6, 2004, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by dongmin
So how does the Xserve compare to the dual 2.0 ghz G5 in performance, in terms of gigaflops?

That 9GF figure for the XServe seems pretty low to me.

Even with the inefficiency inherent of clustering 1100 of them, VT's cluster gets 9.3GF per node out of their G5s.

Either the XServes are slower than the desktop G5s (which seems silly, the hardware sounds practically identical), or Apple is being *very* conservative in their performance claims.

wdlove
Jan 6, 2004, 06:25 PM
Originally posted by Prom1
Oh man somebody give these things a paint job; it'll give the new Vette, 350Z, RX-8 a run for their money wehn it comes to styling.

Also good that PowerMac G5 updates weren't mentioned yet to steel the XServe's thunder.

Now these XServes need corporations to use them in along with FULL scalable software to customize use on them. By corporations I mean Cingular Wireless, Rogers AT&T Wireless (Canada), and you know MaBell.

I happen to prefer the natural metal look of the Xserve, just as I do the G5. Guess that goes along with my love of the natural wood look, have plenty of it in my house.

I thought the same, the Xserve definitley needed to be updated next. This should really open up the market for Apple since it is multi platform compatable.

ClimbingTheLog
Jan 6, 2004, 07:41 PM
Originally posted by rjstanford
Personally, with the Xserve RAID I'd rather they came with just two hard disks (hardware RAID mirrored) for the OS. Or zero, and just boot it from the RAID itself.
-Richard

Well, you do need swapspace, and 3 is the minimum useful number for RAID-5, but you're right about the redundant power supply.

I think the X-Serve RAID has them, so this really shows the X-Serve CPU's are really meant for clusters where the X-Serves are redundant themselves.

Sayhey
Jan 6, 2004, 07:48 PM
Could it be with these series of announcements (90nm G5 Xserves, Xraid systems, Xgrid, and the pledges of developers (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2004/jan/06quotes.html), etc. that Apple is finally trying to be serious about the business and scientific markets? Now if they actually hire some folks to try and sell this stuff to business - that would be new.

Waluigi
Jan 6, 2004, 07:52 PM
Apple Canada (http://www.apple.com/ca) seems to have a mistake about the xserve.

Here is the image from apple's website

http://a772.g.akamai.net/7/772/51/f1bc69eee87e94/www.apple.com/ca/home/images/2004/01/promoxserve01062004.gif

--Waluigi

Powerbook G5
Jan 6, 2004, 07:54 PM
Premature specification? :D

~Shard~
Jan 6, 2004, 09:25 PM
Bring on the G5 PM speed boosts, G5 PBs and G5 iMacs!

All in good time, of course. ;) I'm thinking PM updates in the upcmoing weeks, and G5 PBs and iMacs in the spring/summer. And all announced on Tuesdays. :)

e-coli
Jan 6, 2004, 10:10 PM
This was the best announcement from apple today. This and the XServe Raid is now certified to run in Windoze and Linux environments.

Other than that, I'm really disappointed at this MacWorld.

panphage
Jan 7, 2004, 02:56 AM
Originally posted by jbh001
The price difference between 2GB memory and 8GB memory on the Dual 2GHz Xserve is $1300; on the Dual 2GHz Power Mac it is $3900.

Right Hand, meet Left Hand.

AND it's ECC. How odd. Maybe the RAM prices are coming down on the G5 towers really soon...along with speed-bumped 90nm 970s? Is there an emoticon for crossed fingers?

rog
Jan 7, 2004, 08:03 AM
2GHzis too slow after all this time waiting for updates. Even their benchmarks on Apple's page show the DP is barely faster than the competetion, and it's not shipping for a couple months, at which time, the competetion will have faster clockspeed machines. Let's hope this doesn't mean all G5s will be stuck at 2GHz for a while. It's already been 7 months since they were announced, and they were barely faster than equivalent PC chips way back then. Now they are behind again in some benchmarks. After 7 months, only a handful of apps have been accelerated for G5, and photoshop CS and Panther are only evidence that G5 optimizations sometimes make no difference since both are actually slower in some respects on G5s than the programs they replace!

k2k koos
Jan 7, 2004, 09:09 AM
so who said again that we would see 3Ghz Powermacs ...........;)

backspinner
Jan 7, 2004, 09:47 AM
Originally posted by Waluigi
Apple Canada (http://www.apple.com/ca) seems to have a mistake about the xserve.
Let's hope that we order a 2.0 and get a 2.3, just because the 2.3GHz desktops will only be introduced in a few weeks time?

QCassidy352
Jan 7, 2004, 12:04 PM
hey, can anyone explain the difference in the two different dual 2 ghz xserves that Jobs showed yesterday? Why is one 1k more than the other?

Powerbook G5
Jan 7, 2004, 12:12 PM
The cheaper one is more stripped down, so that they can be uses for clustering with RAIDs and such, I believe. I haven't checked these new machines, but the older G4s had those cheaper ones minus the optical drive and such so that you have a cheaper unit you can buy without the unnecessary hardware when you just want to cluster a few together.

agreenster
Jan 7, 2004, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by Waluigi

http://a772.g.akamai.net/7/772/51/f1bc69eee87e94/www.apple.com/ca/home/images/2004/01/promoxserve01062004.gif

--Waluigi

That's the coolest thing I've seen all day.

Supa_Fly
Jan 7, 2004, 12:52 PM
rog, I understand your concerns for lack of significant jump in G5 cpu speeds but might I suggest a few words.

First off other than the Itanium2 & Opteron, the G5 is the ONLY 64-bit cpu competing in the rack-mount server space. Itanium2 is WAY OVERPRiced currently and for the forseeable future - even with M$ freebies given out to some corporations - and performance of the G5 will remain on par with the Opteron until late April/Spring when AMD announces the 2.3/2.5Ghz cpus. I believe that Apple is being highly conservative currently; as cpu is already on a 90 nanometer process, IBM did get their first, haha Intel:p !

Remember M$ isn't going to ship a working 64-bit OS until mid summer 2004 at which point I'm sure Apple will continue extreme support with Panther or its update for a full 64-bit Mac OS X Server. No worrying for consumers ordering PowerMacs with OS X Server installed as pricing will be higher than the desktop version. Also, note that AMD & Intel are still ONLY cpu corporations while Apple is hardware & software, making it a littlle more difficult for Apple to keep quarterly product refreshes; although thus far (for the past 3 years) they've done sweetly!

I'm still hoping for Apple to be the only company to ship True 64-bit consumer desktop/portable and corporate server/desktop computers to the elite masses with True 64-bit OS!!!!

Just watch how fast these machines will howl with a full 64-bit OS with applications alike compared to the x86-64 AMD Opterons and M$ 64-bit OS with x86 core base/extentions.

MacCoaster
Jan 7, 2004, 05:22 PM
Originally posted by Prom1
Remember M$ isn't going to ship a working 64-bit OS until mid summer 2004 at which point I'm sure Apple will continue extreme support with Panther or its update for a full 64-bit Mac OS X Server.
Microsoft already has 64bit editions of Windows XP, Windows Server, and SQL Server and has had them for a good while.

I think you're referring to the AMD64 support, which is still being worked on.

army_guy
Jan 7, 2004, 05:51 PM
just saw the benchmarks on apples site,

"50% faster than a DUAL Opteron"
"faster than the DUAL 3.2GHz xeon"

where the xeon scores higher the Opteron!!!,


READ THIS

http://www.aceshardware.com/read.jsp?id=60000275
REAL WORLD STUFF NOT LIES NOT MARKETING BU##SH#T


errrrrrr big errrrrr so how is this is possible considering that the DUAL 2GHZ Opteron clobers the 3.2 xeon on nearly every single benchmark including servers tasks, realworld apps etc...?

how can the xeon score be nearly 1/3 higher if I and everyone else knows that the Opteron is faster (and has been shown on numerous H/W sites Anandtech/aces hardware) than it PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME THIS. While do you think Intel is in a state now trying to push the Itanium into the market (lowering prices etc....) and xeons are selling less and less.

In doing this they are making IBM look bad considering they are suppling the G5 CPUS.

Like the AMD guy said lies all lies from this apple company.

army_guy
Jan 7, 2004, 05:54 PM
MS will ship a complete 64-bit OS this year, unlike panther which has 64-bit extension/enhancments what ever you want to call them ( IT IS HOWEVER SILL 32-BIT). There was a rumer that apple is at least 2 years behind in terms of releasing a FULL 64-bit OS.

Rower_CPU
Jan 7, 2004, 05:55 PM
army_guy-

Do you have Linpack scores different from what Apple showed? Some scores, BLAST for instance, do show the Opteron ahead of the Xeons.

You're trying to compare some real world tests to a benchmark and blaming Apple for the disparity in results. Seems like very poor logic to me.

army_guy
Jan 7, 2004, 05:58 PM
Originally posted by Prom1


Just watch how fast these machines will howl with a full 64-bit OS with applications alike compared to the x86-64 AMD Opterons and M$ 64-bit OS with x86 core base/extentions.

The Opteron does not use the x86 extensions when running in native 64-bit mode (64-bit OS + 64-bit APPS +64-bit DRIVERS) so I dont know what your talking about with the x86 core extensions?

army_guy
Jan 7, 2004, 05:59 PM
since when did people use linpack for serious benchmarking?

sjk
Jan 7, 2004, 06:04 PM
Originally posted by ~Shard~
Bring on the G5 PM speed boosts, G5 PBs and G5 iMacs!And SJ did say (again) "the G5 is our future roadmap in processors" during the keynote so it's only a matter of time...