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MacRumors
Jan 7, 2004, 02:57 PM
Trendwatch published (http://www.trendwatch.com/fastfacts/tv_04_01_07.html) a "Fast Fact" today indicating that Apple's marketshare is up in the broadcast market:26% of U.S. broadcast stations and cable systems use Apple computers as their primary system for editing/production workstations.This is reportedly 8% up from just one year ago.

With a rush of well received new products over the past few years, Apple has certainly gained mindshare. Marketshare may be following. In September (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/09/20030926122739.shtml) it was reported that Apple had gained 2 Percentage Points in laptops, and there's been speculation (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/11/20031104235416.shtml) that Apple may make strides in Education this year.

andyduncan
Jan 7, 2004, 03:03 PM
FCP baby.

Masao[RY]
Jan 7, 2004, 03:07 PM
IMO, the higher Apple's market share the better. I also hope the G5 brings more games to the mac as with higher market share.

Sayhey
Jan 7, 2004, 03:14 PM
This is great. Apple may not be able to compete in the low end consumer market, but it can be a major player in markets that need quality. These kind of trends in specific markets are not only good in and of themselves, but help build an overall sense that the mac is back.

Grimace
Jan 7, 2004, 03:25 PM
if Apple needs to go top-down to gain marketshare - so be it. Sticker price will always keep them from entering at the lowest market.

BOOMBA
Jan 7, 2004, 03:29 PM
I hope to see a price break when the G5s are established at 90nm in volume. Maybe then market share will come a back to a more reasonable level.

bishopduke
Jan 7, 2004, 03:30 PM
!

evil_santa
Jan 7, 2004, 03:31 PM
Where I work we are looking to replace our Avids & media 100 & Tape suites with FCP with media on a server at DV quality, the server will also be used to transmit from. :)

BOOMBA
Jan 7, 2004, 03:33 PM
Originally posted by bishopduke
I grew up with Final Cut Pro, but Avid still dominates the market.
You grew up on Final Cut Pro?
How old are you?
10?

jettredmont
Jan 7, 2004, 03:35 PM
8% to 26% ... in one year?!?

Wow!

That's awesome!

It's surprising to begin with that >18% of all broadcast organizations bought new hardware for their primary editing systems in the past year ... Is this kind of turnover of equipment anywhere within the realm of normalcy in that industry?

QCassidy352
Jan 7, 2004, 03:37 PM
Originally posted by jettredmont
8% to 26% ... in one year?!?

Wow!

That's awesome!

It's surprising to begin with that >18% of all broadcast organizations bought new hardware for their primary editing systems in the past year ... Is this kind of turnover of equipment anywhere within the realm of normalcy in that industry?

no no, apple is "up 8%". Not "up from 8%." Still remarkable though.

BOOMBA
Jan 7, 2004, 03:38 PM
no, it is UP 8% from last year, so it WAS at 18%.

mikeyredk
Jan 7, 2004, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by jettredmont
8% to 26% ... in one year?!?


no thats up 8%
18% to 26%

eazyway
Jan 7, 2004, 03:43 PM
Originally posted by carletonmusic
if Apple needs to go top-down to gain marketshare - so be it. Sticker price will always keep them from entering at the lowest market.

At the very bottom Apple does not offer products which use end of line components. Mid range the Apple line is about $100-150 more expensive and at the high end Apple is as much as $1000 cheaper.

A dual 2 Ghz G5 ($2990)is alot cheaper than a dual Xenon 3.2 Ghz Dell ($4026) system.

Does anyone ever notice that the Centrino mobile chip at 1.4Ghz is double the price of a P4 2.8 Ghz chip in portables.
Again it shows that Ghz is not the true meaasure of performance.

But you have to admire the Dell marketing machine. Put the low loss leaders to suck you in and watch the prices jump with all the incremental upgrades. It is also difficult to navigate the dell website and find what you really want. The discounts are only availabe on machines no real users wants to buy.

johnnyjibbs
Jan 7, 2004, 03:55 PM
I guess we may start seeing Apple's overall market share getting above 5% this year, with all the new pro apps and cost-saving solutions, G5 xserves and the new aggressive pricing on iBooks and PowerBooks.

Here's hoping!

iggyb
Jan 7, 2004, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by johnnyjibbs
I guess we may start seeing Apple's overall market share getting above 5% this year, with all the new pro apps and cost-saving solutions, G5 xserves and the new aggressive pricing on iBooks and PowerBooks.

Here's hoping!

That would be a HUGE feat! A tough fight to gain that much this year. I'm right there with ya.:cool:

El Tritoma
Jan 7, 2004, 04:07 PM
If the writer of the article knew what they were doing, then Apple's share increased from 24.07% to 26%. This is an 8% increase. If they had said an eight percentage point increase, then that would mean it had been 18% before.:)

Hackcomic.com
Jan 7, 2004, 04:09 PM
I'm a tv writer and film director in LA. Most network television productions use Mac in the office and Avids in editing. While the basic cable shows I have worked on all use Final Cut on dual G4s (Switching to G5s) Same goes with most of the sound people I know- they all use Macs.

Whenever I take a new job, I always ask and make sure that the writing staff is on Macs- I had to use Windows on a Fox show I did- and it was beyond a pain.

iggyb
Jan 7, 2004, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by El Tritoma
If the writer of the article knew what they were doing, then Apple's share increased from 24.07% to 26%. This is an 8% increase. If they had said an eight percentage point increase, then that would mean it had been 18% before.:)

The writer said this was up 8%, which I think means last year it was 18%. Otherwise, I think it was say an increase of 8%. I think.

iomar
Jan 7, 2004, 04:14 PM
This is great! So is that mean that apple has bigger market share than the 5%. What is their over all market share?

El Tritoma
Jan 7, 2004, 04:16 PM
Not to pound a dead horse, but percentage increases are multiplicative increases, not additive increases. A 50% increase, for example, means that the new value is 1.5 times bigger than the old value. Very few things, except for Apple's market share:p go ever go up 50% if it were an additive increase.:)

desdomg
Jan 7, 2004, 04:50 PM
Yeah, basically you multiple the starting fiture by the increase to get the new figure. E.G. 100 increased by 10% is 100 x .10 = 110.

Therefore 24.07% x .08 = 25.99. or 26%

fatbarstard
Jan 7, 2004, 05:12 PM
From my experiece when the media talk about a shift of 8% they mean 8% of the total they are talking about - thus for Apple their share has risen from 18% to 26%, which is pretty good.

Generally speaking an increase in market share is good news, but only if the company is making money out of doing so! There are too many cases in all sorts of industires where market share is 'bought' by aggressive discounting or selling and cost (or below!!).

All these market share gains seem to be making stuff all difference to Apple'e shareholders who are still seeing the vast majority of the net earnings of the company coming from interest earnt on the cash pile. And if you are wondering broker analysts are not forecasting a bog jump in profits over the next year or so.

kenaustus
Jan 7, 2004, 05:13 PM
Apple isn't going to hit 40%. There is an opportunity for significant growth over the next few years, however because of the developing relationship with IBM. It is going to take another year for the full line to move to the G5 (and the PM to the 980) and that is when things are really going to be interesting.

A year from now the G5 (or G6) will be over 3 Gig and outperforming the Intel world - gonna drive some people nuts. The key, however, will be the price/performance at the lower end where volume is. There will not be a $499 headless iMac, but I believe that there will be some options that blow the competition away.

If IBM keeps developing chips at the same rate I would guess a 10% market share is possible in 2 - 3 years and that is going to have a significant impact on the industry.

iggyb
Jan 7, 2004, 05:14 PM
Generally speaking an increase in market share is good news, but only if the company is making money out of doing so! There are too many cases in all sorts of industires where market share is 'bought' by aggressive discounting or selling and cost (or below!!).

That's not the case with Apple. They consistently report very good margins on their products sold (at least with desktops and laptops...I don't know about their iPods). Off the top of my head (or I should say pulling out of my butt) I think it's around 23%.:D

ChrisH3677
Jan 7, 2004, 05:16 PM
having read the article which says "...this number is up 8%..." (i.e. the 26%) I'm now with El Tritoma.


But a 2% point increase is pretty good too

El Tritoma
Jan 7, 2004, 05:17 PM
I hope we realize we are not discussing the ins and outs of how to calculate percentage increases. The difference is very important. If standard usage of percentages are being employed, then this is not that big a deal in terms of Apple's market share. If the writer was doing it incorrectly, and I agree that technical writers are often anything but technical (or logical), then a 8 percentage point increase is a really big deal! I hope it did go from 18 to 26%, but that sounds too good to be true.

iggyb
Jan 7, 2004, 05:23 PM
Originally posted by El Tritoma
I hope we realize we are not discussing the ins and outs of how to calculate percentage increases. The difference is very important. If standard usage of percentages are being employed, then this is not that big a deal in terms of Apple's market share. If the writer was doing it incorrectly, and I agree that technical writers are often anything but technical (or logical), then a 8 percentage point increase is a really big deal! I hope it did go from 18 to 26%, but that sounds too good to be true.

I sent an email to the company, asking for clarification. You're right, an increase from 18% to 26% is a big deal, so I would like to know...

mk_in_mke
Jan 7, 2004, 05:31 PM
Hats off to Apple...

It seems to me that the combo Hardware/software is paying: good products to support extraordinary applications. Also (and correct me if I am wrong), remember that the most recent apps have been developed by other companies that Apple acquired (DVD apps, Music app, Final Cut Pro). I do think that Apple is still unbeatable: best apps, best integrated apps, best hardware...

The broadcast market is made of very demanding people that can make Apple go the extra mile and this is good for us less demanding customers.

We can only encourage Apple by:
1) buying their products (which we do)
2) not screaming about a 49$ cost for the Ilife apps when the components of Ilife offer such added value
3) being also more demandinga nd ask for always better equipment.

What kills me is when I ear that Aplle is only 3% of the market; what are we talking about here, hardware or OS?... Someone should publish a list of PC vendors and their market share. Then we can compare apples to Apple!

Michel

ccuilla
Jan 7, 2004, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by El Tritoma
If the writer of the article knew what they were doing, then Apple's share increased from 24.07% to 26%. This is an 8% increase. If they had said an eight percentage point increase, then that would mean it had been 18% before.:)

Thank you! Someone that knows math AND grammar. You, sir, seem to be a rarity.

iggyb
Jan 7, 2004, 05:42 PM
Just confirmed with Jim Whittington at TrendWatch -

The number is up from 18% last year. So....we're talking about 8 percentage points higher!!! That's a huge deal.

:D

El Tritoma
Jan 7, 2004, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by mk_in_mke
Hats off to Apple...
2) not screaming about a 49$ cost for the Ilife apps when the components of Ilife offer such added value
Michel

I agree, $49 is a fantastic price, how can you possibly complain about this.

In my business we use Macs for simulation development and creative stuff. We buy cheap Intell computers with Linux to do the simulation runs. Two completey different markets. It is a waste of time to buy a GUI-based OS and its computer if you aren't going to interact with it except at the other end of an ethernet cable! I think this is one reason why iTunes did not increase as much as some people thought because there are a lot of Wintel computers out there that just don't have a real, live person attached to them doing interesting things.

mian
Jan 7, 2004, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by iggyb
Just confirmed with Jim Whittington at TrendWatch -

The number is up from 18% last year. So....we're talking about 8 percentage points higher!!! That's a huge deal.

:D

I'm glad you confirmed it with them. I found this on line and came up with a different answer.:confused:

http://journals.iranscience.net:800/Default/maccentral.macworld.com/news/0205/09.survey.php

Upon further review, I'm assuming this link was for 2001.

El Tritoma
Jan 7, 2004, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by iggyb
Just confirmed with Jim Whittington at TrendWatch -

The number is up from 18% last year. So....we're talking about 8 percentage points higher!!! That's a huge deal.

:D

This is one of the things that aggravates me about Apple. News like this should be marketed (I was going to say better, I think I will say "at all"!). It should be on their web site, it should be in ads. They just seem to ignore all this good news and not take advantage of it. I don't think they are making enough of the VT super computer. There have been so many examples of this lately. Sometimes I think the only company worse at marketing was Commodore and the Amiga.

sosumi99
Jan 7, 2004, 05:58 PM
Originally posted by mk_in_mke
We can only encourage Apple by:
1) buying their products (which we do)
2) not screaming about a 49$ cost for the Ilife apps when the components of Ilife offer such added value
3) being also more demandinga nd ask for always better equipment.


I agree with what you say here. I think, however, occasionally different Mac users, while all sharing the same goal of promoting Apple's success and having a good computing environment, may differ in the details as to which component of the three-steps is more relevant for them at that moment.

For example, it could be argued that the "Annoyed" side are simply implementing part 3 above by demanding better software upgrade policies.

I am hoping that this time we will have a civil discussion between the Annoyed and the Beraters without name calling, etc.

Let's try to remember that Annoyed and Beraters are all on the same side: we are all Apple users and Apple supporters.

fatbarstard
Jan 7, 2004, 06:01 PM
I would merely point out that jouranlists are not known for their stunning mathematical insights. the vast majority of journos that I know (and that's a few) will think an increase from 10% to 20% is an increase of 10%, whereas mathematically that's complete nonsense.

A good performance by Applie no doubt about it... but have they now hit the inflection point where the law of diminishing returns sets in...

After all, life is a gaussian distribution...

iChan
Jan 7, 2004, 06:25 PM
top down is definitely the way to go... if people at the top are using these great machines, they will eventually trickle down to consumers.

same goes for all the pop stars using apple stuff, at some stage, this is going to seriously affect the buying decision of consumer's next computer purchase.

bishopduke
Jan 7, 2004, 06:29 PM
!

eazyway
Jan 7, 2004, 07:22 PM
Originally posted by kenaustus
Apple isn't going to hit 40%.


probably not .... but never impossible

Apple was near 30% in its hey day.

Compact was there for a couple of years

Gateway was in double digits once.

Now Dell is there

look at all the PC companies that have failed

Atari, Commodore etc

It is very hard to stay at the top of your field someone always comes along to replace you.

Sometimes you come back to the top.

Who will be the next number 1

HP-Compaq , Apple or ??? .... who knows but it can't be DELL because they are there now.

ccuilla
Jan 7, 2004, 07:27 PM
Originally posted by iggyb
Just confirmed with Jim Whittington at TrendWatch -

The number is up from 18% last year. So....we're talking about 8 percentage points higher!!! That's a huge deal.

:D

Now we have it. This is tremendous news! This is a 44% increase! This is very good news (though an 8% increase from year to year ain't bad either).

And the confusion is further evidence of journalists that do not know math.

This is actually a real pet peeve of mine. I see this ALL the time in the media, improperly indicating percentage POINT changes for percentage changes. It makes ALL the difference in the world (as this case should demonstrate).

Roller
Jan 7, 2004, 07:44 PM
Originally posted by ccuilla
Thank you! Someone that knows math AND grammar. You, sir, seem to be a rarity.

Shouldn't that read "Someone who knows math AND grammar." :)

ccuilla
Jan 7, 2004, 07:46 PM
Originally posted by Roller
Shouldn't that read "Someone who knows math AND grammar." :)

Ouch.

Let's just say that I know math better than I know grammar.

;-)

sosumi99
Jan 7, 2004, 07:50 PM
Originally posted by eazyway
probably not .... but never impossible



Hope springs eternal for me too. If Apple can put out mini-iPod to go after the high-end flash player market, who's to say it won't put out a great head-less G4 to go after the high-end Celeron market?

Go Apple, go!

martin
Jan 7, 2004, 08:18 PM
Forget G4. G4 is dead. G5 is where you want the product line going. Stick a G4 in something and all the reviews will be "blah blah, good machine but it's hella slow".

Signed

A G4 owner <sigh>

x86isslow
Jan 7, 2004, 08:43 PM
Originally posted by sosumi99
Hope springs eternal for me too. If Apple can put out mini-iPod to go after the high-end flash player market, who's to say it won't put out a great head-less G4 to go after the high-end Celeron market?

Go Apple, go!

there's a high end Celeron market??:eek: :eek:

MacFan26
Jan 7, 2004, 08:52 PM
Originally posted by mk_in_mke

2) not screaming about a 49$ cost for the Ilife apps when the components of Ilife offer such added value

Michel

I'm agreeing with you too, I was actually almost suprised that Apple included GarageBand into iLife, and it's the same price. I think that was very smart on their part, you can count on me picking up my copy when it comes out.

eazyway
Jan 7, 2004, 10:23 PM
Originally posted by MacFan26
I'm agreeing with you too, I was actually almost suprised that Apple included GarageBand into iLife, and it's the same price. I think that was very smart on their part, you can count on me picking up my copy when it comes out.

Excellent price. 2 of My kids have put in their orders already.

PowerBook User
Jan 7, 2004, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by mk_in_mke
Hats off to Apple...

What kills me is when I ear that Aplle is only 3% of the market; what are we talking about here, hardware or OS?... Someone should publish a list of PC vendors and their market share. Then we can compare apples to Apple!

Michel
It would be intersting to see the market share of each computer brand. I think this is great news for Apple. I hope the market share starts increasing in other market's, too.

sosumi99
Jan 7, 2004, 11:16 PM
Originally posted by eazyway
Excellent price. 2 of My kids have put in their orders already.

Why didn't you get the family pack then?

udannlin
Jan 8, 2004, 12:02 AM
Originally posted by BOOMBA
You grew up on Final Cut Pro?
How old are you?
10?

More like 5.

Fukui
Jan 8, 2004, 02:16 AM
Originally posted by mk_in_mke
Hats off to Apple...
What kills me is when I ear that Aplle is only 3% of the market; what are we talking about here, hardware or OS?... Someone should publish a list of PC vendors and their market share. Then we can compare apples to Apple!

Well, the PC market is always getting bigger and bigger...apple just isn't growing fast enough to keep up with curve...overall that is. In Consumer PC sales, I read somewhere they're actually pretty well off, but business sales (think of all those dell kioisks etc.) are a place that apple is very foreign.

I am dismayed though that in Japan of all places, a piece of Junk manufacturer like DELL can be so successful...oh well....:o

fatbarstard
Jan 8, 2004, 02:36 AM
I read somewhere, sometime that Apple is like BMW... BMW has a marekt share of about 4% worldwide but still does rather nicely thank you..

In hardware terms Apple is like so many other manufacturers - small market share but rather than 'me-too' boxes Apple has oh so nice stuff

Software is harder though... if Apple were to port OS X to Intel chipsets then its share would be much higher, but an installed base of nearly 10m for OS X is nothing to sneeze at... :) :cool:

SiliconAddict
Jan 8, 2004, 08:53 AM
Of interest, in a recent poll most Mac users feel that Apple's ideal marketshare would fall between 10 and 40%.

I think I would have a cross between an epileptic seizure and an orgasm if Apple share ever reached 40%.

iggyb
Jan 8, 2004, 09:13 AM
Originally posted by fatbarstard
I read somewhere, sometime that Apple is like BMW... BMW has a marekt share of about 4% worldwide but still does rather nicely thank you..

In hardware terms Apple is like so many other manufacturers - small market share but rather than 'me-too' boxes Apple has oh so nice stuff

Software is harder though... if Apple were to port OS X to Intel chipsets then its share would be much higher, but an installed base of nearly 10m for OS X is nothing to sneeze at... :) :cool:

Because of the software issue, the BMW analogy doesn't work for me. I can buy a BMW and then buy gas at any gas station and drive on all the same roads. You buy a Mac, you're sacrificing the ability to drop in a Best Buy and grab some software, gaming or otherwise. If Apple can increase its marketshare to, say, 25%, then the software issue would almost be gone.

TVGenius
Jan 8, 2004, 09:46 AM
We're a community college running two cable channels (and adding a broadcast channel and another cable channel on a satellite campus 70 miles north by the end of the year). We have four G5s dedicated to Final Cut Pro editing for staff, plus a lab with six G4 FCP stations for the television production classes we offer. They're also adding a smaller lab of eMacs for editing for other departments. One of thge four local commercial stations uses FCP exclusively as well.

painandgreed
Jan 8, 2004, 11:40 AM
Originally posted by iggyb
Because of the software issue, the BMW analogy doesn't work for me. I can buy a BMW and then buy gas at any gas station and drive on all the same roads. You buy a Mac, you're sacrificing the ability to drop in a Best Buy and grab some software, gaming or otherwise. If Apple can increase its marketshare to, say, 25%, then the software issue would almost be gone.

When yo buy a BMW, you sacrifice the ability to install Ford parts in your car. The BMW analogy works fine as far as an analogy is supposed to go. It still uses the same gas (electricy) and roads (tcpip). Functionabilty varies frm device to device as your BMW isn't goign to crry as much as a unimog but a unimog is never going to get above 55 on the open highway. You just need to make sure that your vehicle preforms the functions that you need.

bishopduke
Jan 8, 2004, 12:14 PM
!

SiliconAddict
Jan 8, 2004, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by fatbarstard
I read somewhere, sometime that Apple is like BMW... BMW has a marekt share of about 4% worldwide but still does rather nicely thank you..

In hardware terms Apple is like so many other manufacturers - small market share but rather than 'me-too' boxes Apple has oh so nice stuff

Software is harder though... if Apple were to port OS X to Intel chipsets then its share would be much higher, but an installed base of nearly 10m for OS X is nothing to sneeze at... :) :cool:

I love it when I hear this. Not to pick on one individual but the concept that Apple can survive long term on a low market share. This is BS. Or if nothing else is a SLOW death. People have predicted Apple's death for year and yet they have hung on. This doesnít mean they aren't slowly loosing their grip on the cliff.
BMW is an island to itself. It doesn't require anything special to run. BMW could go out of business tomorrow and your car would be just fine. Until you wanted to by parts.
Now lets look at Apple. Apple depends on developers and developerís biggest consideration is how large a market they can distribute their wares to. This is why you almost always see products ported from PC and THEN to Mac and almost never from Mac to PC with a few notable exceptions such as iTunes. Mac is a second thought to many developers what with a 4% market share and even then what percentage of the market share is OS9 or older? A developer is not going to make a piece of software for OS9 at this point. So we are left with what?

This is really good news for Apple. Mindshare is the first step in reclaiming that market share MS has taken from them. But mindshare is NOT enough. I DO NOT care what anyone says. Price DOES matter. Apple needs a cheap e/iMac to rip into the $500 PC territory. Like it or not a growing number of users arenít looking for a high end computer. They are looking for a system to do the basics. While an e/iMac can do this, a comparably equipped PC can run rings around an e/iMac. IMHO, this is unacceptable esp if Apple ever hopes to climb into the double digit market share ever again.

For the heck of it I went and customized my perfect 17Ē PowerBook that included a second battery and second power brick along with FCE. I just about freaked at the end price. Aprox $4,000 for the laptop. I put less as a down payment on my off the showroom floor car. And yes I know your response. If you donít like it get a cheaper Mac. My point is that to get a comparable system to a Pentium M, and even then the Pentium M blows the G4 out of the water, I need to shell out aprox $3,500 - $4,100. This is just embarrassing IMHO.

Rocketman
Jan 8, 2004, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by evil_santa
Where I work we are looking to replace our Avids & media 100 & Tape suites with FCP with media on a server at DV quality, the server will also be used to transmit from. :)

Here is one I setup:


Items you have selected Part No. Est Ship Qty Unit Price Ext. Price

Xserve G5 2GHz DP/1GB/80GB/CD/2xGigE/Unlimited
M9217LL/A $3,999.00 $3,999.00
Mac OS X Server, Unlimited License
Dual 2GHz PowerPC G5
80GB ADM (1x80GB Serial ATA)
CD-ROM
1GB DDR400 ECC SDRAM - 2x512

APC Netshelter 2 Post Open Frame Rack, AR201
T4918LL/A $149.00 $149.00

Xserve G5 Cluster Node 2GHz DP/80GB/2xGigE/10Client
M9215LL/A $2,999.00 $8,997.00
Dual 2GHz PowerPC G5
512MB DDR400 ECC SDRAM - 2x256
80GB ADM (1x80GB Serial ATA)
Mac OS X Server, 10-seat License

Subtotal $13,145.00

Interconnect hardware and cables $2000.00
Memory $2000.00
Storage $2000.00
Software $2000.00

Total $21,145.00

iggyb
Jan 8, 2004, 01:39 PM
I completely agree with your assessment, SiliconAddict!