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MacRumors
Aug 13, 2008, 12:06 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

ZDNet Australia reports (http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/hardware/soa/HSBC-could-order-200-000-iPhones/0,130061702,339291247,00.htm) that banking "giant" HSBC is considering ditching the BlackBerry and switching over to the iPhone for its staff. HSBC has about 300,000 staff worldwide and this transition could result in 200,000 iPhone orders."We are actually reviewing iPhones from a HSBC Group perspective ... and when I say that, I mean globally," HSBC's Australia and New Zealand chief information officer Brenton Hush told ZDNet.com.au yesterday.

Whie Apple has not released official sales numbers for the iPhone 3G beyond the first weekend, analysts are predicting that Apple will sell at least 4.47 million (http://apple20.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/08/13/analyst-apple-will-sell-447-million-iphones-this-quarter/) iPhones this quarter. This estimate reportedly doesn't take into account Apple's international iPhone in 22 additional countries later this month.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/08/13/banking-firm-hsbc-considering-iphone-more-iphone-sales-estimates/)



gowanis
Aug 13, 2008, 12:09 PM
someone should tell HSBC that the e-mail app is still unreliable.

iPoodOverZune
Aug 13, 2008, 12:10 PM
And the great enterprise parade for iPhone starts!

bytethese
Aug 13, 2008, 12:11 PM
Productivity drops 300% as users download free games to their iPhones...

adom
Aug 13, 2008, 12:12 PM
It'll make work at bit more fun at lunch! :D

Hackntosh
Aug 13, 2008, 12:13 PM
I think is is a great thing, from every encounter I have had with the Blackberry I have found them to be 100% NOT user friendly! I think that the iPhone will become the industry standard for Corp. Email and the like.

hob
Aug 13, 2008, 12:15 PM
crikey. those are some big numbers.

pcm128
Aug 13, 2008, 12:17 PM
Hope this doesn't mean we'll be having another iPhone shortage here in the US because of HSBC.

BiikeMike
Aug 13, 2008, 12:19 PM
I think is is a great thing, from every encounter I have had with the Blackberry I have found them to be 100% NOT user friendly! I think that the iPhone will become the industry standard for Corp. Email and the like.


I disagree. My Blackberry is super user friendly. And the iPhone will not become standard any time soon. Blackberrys are just too good for email. The iPhone can't get it shizz straight, and the Blackberry has been tried and true for years

~Shard~
Aug 13, 2008, 12:19 PM
Great news, let's hope the iPhone makes further in-roads into the enterprise market.

TEG
Aug 13, 2008, 12:20 PM
someone should tell HSBC that the e-mail app is still unreliable.

Huh? Only MobileMe is currently unreliable. Exchange Push works great, in fact annoyingly great.

This could be a great boon to iPhone in Enterprise. Next... Boeing, Nintendo, Chase.

TEG

t0mat0
Aug 13, 2008, 12:23 PM
If a few more big businesses (and HSBC is big) sign up - it'll be interesting to see others possible change position, re-review, or think about looking into it

HSBC is basically saying, it might be worth moving away from RIM and the RIM back end equipment - that's a big statement to make. A lot of people have said that as companies use RIM compatible servers etc, that it would be cost to move to iPhones. Seems like some are already seeing that this cost needs to be put into perspective...

Good news. I wonder if we'll see some more big businesses think about heading to Macs, and or iPhones before the year is out. If it's a quantifiable competitive advantage, once someone makes a move, there will be a lot of businesses watching in interest to see what happens.

thecartoonguy
Aug 13, 2008, 12:37 PM
Productivity drops 300% as users download free games to their iPhones...

Laughing. I was thinking the same thing. Monkey Ball for everyone.

sjo
Aug 13, 2008, 12:37 PM
HSBC is basically saying, it might be worth moving away from RIM and the RIM back end equipment - that's a big statement to make. A lot of people have said that as companies use RIM compatible servers etc, that it would be cost to move to iPhones. Seems like some are already seeing that this cost needs to be put into perspective...


actually what they're saying is that they're studying if it's worthwhile to switch to iphone. given the hype, it would be surprising if they were not taking a look.

pretty much no news.

Virgil-TB2
Aug 13, 2008, 12:39 PM
If a few more big businesses (and HSBC is big)...HSBC is indeed a very large corporation.

To that end, I was wondering why MacRumors felt they needed to put quotes around the word "giant" in the article? It's kind of rude given the context.

Just because a bank is relatively unknown in the USA doesn't mean it isn't one of the largest most important banks on the planet you know. ;)

djrobsd
Aug 13, 2008, 12:41 PM
I highly doubt HSBC will move forward with this for several reasons. However, this could be good because maybe HSBC will leverage their buying power to get Apple to:

-Properly implement a remote wipe - the one they have now doesn't work too well. The one on the Blackberry's is SOLID and completely renders the device useless.

-Properly lock down all aspects of the phone:
-disable the app store
-only allow a specific list of apps to run on the phone
-filter web traffic so employees can only visit certain web sites on their phone

-Add a snooze button to calendar events

-Add sync with your to-do task list in Outlook!!!!

-Solve the 3G reception issues

-Improve battery life to that of a Blackberry, or make an iPhone with a removable battery. Most blackberry users are mobile, and can go a day or two without charging their phone.

Seriously, Blackberries are tried and true in the corporate world. The iPhone is awesome, but Apple needs to make a corporate version of the iPhone which competes and functions directly like the technology they are trying to replace, otherwise most corporations will view the iPhone as another toy to distract workers from getting their jobs done.

aricher
Aug 13, 2008, 12:42 PM
Huh? Only MobileMe is currently unreliable. Exchange Push works great, in fact annoyingly great.

I agree, my Exchange account on the iPhone has been amazing. My phone actually gets my work email 1-2 seconds before it hits my Entourage.

MobileMe, other than a couple of minor outages has been pretty reliable for me as well. Calendars, email & contacts sync between my iPhone an wife's iPhone very quickly. Overall I've been very pleased.

Virgil-TB2
Aug 13, 2008, 12:43 PM
Huh? Only MobileMe is currently unreliable. Exchange Push works great, in fact annoyingly great.

This could be a great boon to iPhone in Enterprise. Next... Boeing, Nintendo, Chase.

TEGDon't know about exchange push as I don't use it, but since the iPhone email app lost two of my emails yesterday, I would say that it still has a way to go. :)

Also, you are arguing your personal experience against conventional wisdom here (as I am to an extent), which is a fairly lame thing for both of us to do. The general consensus is that the iPhone email app is still fairly "1.0" and we both know it.

.

sushi
Aug 13, 2008, 12:43 PM
Great news, let's hope the iPhone makes further in-roads into the enterprise market.
Likewise.

This is great news. :)

AdeFowler
Aug 13, 2008, 12:49 PM
Apple should be in contact with HSBC right now, offering them all the help and flexibility possible. A deal like this would be huge for Apple.

JoeDMD
Aug 13, 2008, 12:51 PM
I wonder if any Redmond based software giants will be switching over to iPhones? :D

BornAgainMac
Aug 13, 2008, 12:54 PM
I disagree. My Blackberry is super user friendly. And the iPhone will not become standard any time soon. Blackberrys are just too good for email. The iPhone can't get it shizz straight, and the Blackberry has been tried and true for years

That isn't my experience. I will never touch a Blackberry again.

I couldn't even type in the email address when I tried to create an email. You must have had a real keyboard. I would mess up and press the wrong key and have to keep starting over again. It is like emailing with a tweezers, a paper clip, and a ball of string. The most user unfriendly email client ever. Also if I had 200 emails and had to look at a email from 4 days ago, I would have the scroll endlessly to get to it. It was a pain to even use it as a email browser.

They must have copied the iPhone since last year's phone model so email is a pleasure.

seedster2
Aug 13, 2008, 12:54 PM
actually what they're saying is that they're studying if it's worthwhile to switch to iphone. given the hype, it would be surprising if they were not taking a look.

pretty much no news.

Agreed.

This is being misinterpreted as HSBC is ready to dump BB altogether. They are doing their due diligence. I use my 3G w/ exchange but I am employed by a smaller tech firm with a relatively liberal IT dep't.

Doubtful the 3G in its current form will replace the BB at any large firm.

jrichard012
Aug 13, 2008, 12:56 PM
I have been trying to download this since the update first came out. I keep getting an error message stating that the Microsoft download server could not be found. Can anyone give me some advice?

arkitect
Aug 13, 2008, 12:56 PM
If HSBC uses the iPhone with their own proprietary software it would be an excellent move…

I can't quite see HSBC switching over to me.com… :D

markm49uk
Aug 13, 2008, 01:07 PM
Any company that truely values mobile capability should be looking at the iPhone seriously - I know I am for my organisation (not the size of HSBC but still with 30-40 Blackberry users with BES server etc).

We recently managed to snaffle a couple of 16Gb 3G iPhones and passed them to a couple of my directors - the response has been amazing to say the least - easy to use, great email and calendar (using Exchange push) , usable screen for attachments including Excel, Word and PDF documents and a superb browser for on the road access to internal intranets and the web.

But not only that the ability to have this great connectivity tool and also have a great phone, with all their personel music on together with photos as well, means it's a well rounded device that delivers on both fronts.

We have had Blackberry for years now and I have never had a response like this - the Blackberry is great for basic emailing but other than that it has not developed in the last 2-3 years. The OS is clunky and slow, the user interface is poor and the BES server strikes fear into the heart of my network support team.

Apple do have a way to go on some of the points raised earlier in the article re battery life and remote administration/lock down but in my eyes I can't see my organisation buying another Blackberry at this point.

btcutter
Aug 13, 2008, 01:14 PM
I disagree. My Blackberry is super user friendly. And the iPhone will not become standard any time soon. Blackberrys are just too good for email. The iPhone can't get it shizz straight, and the Blackberry has been tried and true for years

Do people need email INSTANTANEOUSLY? if so, TEXT or call....what's so hard about that?

sushi
Aug 13, 2008, 01:17 PM
someone should tell HSBC that the e-mail app is still unreliable.
Huh? What do you mean?

I disagree. My Blackberry is super user friendly. And the iPhone will not become standard any time soon. Blackberrys are just too good for email. The iPhone can't get it shizz straight, and the Blackberry has been tried and true for years
I have plenty of friends who work for the military/government that wish they could throw their BBs away. Far away.

If a few more big businesses (and HSBC is big) sign up - it'll be interesting to see others possible change position, re-review, or think about looking into it
Agree.

That isn't my experience. I will never touch a Blackberry again.
I think many, if given the choice, would dump their BB.

If HSBC uses the iPhone with their own proprietary software it would be an excellent move…
As an HSBC customer, I look forward to an HSBC client that runs on the iPhone/Touch. Manage my account and pay my bills from where ever I am.

Sweet.

Any company that truely values mobile capability should be looking at the iPhone seriously - I know I am for my organisation (not the size of HSBC but still with 30-40 Blackberry users with BES server etc).
<snip>
Well said.

hexonxonx
Aug 13, 2008, 01:21 PM
Excellent news! I have several credit cards from them and it's good to know that I'm helping fund those iPhones for their employees! :D

Xavier
Aug 13, 2008, 01:21 PM
This could be huge for Apple. Will be interesting to find out how this turns out.

babyj
Aug 13, 2008, 01:25 PM
Is the battery life on the iPhone really that bad?

I have to charge mine everyday but that's because I'm playing games on it, listening to music, watching a video, surfing, having my email sync every 15 minutes and other stuff - plus its got a big screen (compared to other phones).

Its more that I'm doing more with it than the battery life being poor.

David G.
Aug 13, 2008, 01:27 PM
Whie Apple... :rolleyes:


Edit: Good for you Arn.

babyj
Aug 13, 2008, 01:34 PM
On the subject of how big HSBC are, they're actually the biggest bank in the world (according to The Economist at the end of 2007). They're also one of the more progressive banks, especially when it comes to modernising and moving forwards. They also make it pretty easy to open an account with them anywhere in the world that they operate (which is a lot of countries).

It wouldn't surprise me at all if they made the switch, but its likely to take them a number of months making a decision either way and then even longer actually making the switch. Which together could easily take it to the release of the 3rd Gen iPhone, by which time I'm sure Apple will have addressed all the issues that big corporations have with it.

able-x
Aug 13, 2008, 01:38 PM
I wonder how many posting about how they should switch actually work in IT Departments?

I hope HSBC bought lots of extra storage on the servers, and are ready to support a gillion itunes installs. Cause now they'll be supporting not just phones, but everyone's music collections, and they'll be storing them because that music WILL inevitability end up on the servers. Also, itunes doesn't allow updates without being an admin on the machine, so it takes yet more admin intervention to maintain.


Oh, and be ready when the RIAA or whatever Australian/European version of it comes knocking for all the pirated music on the corporate servers.

fastbite
Aug 13, 2008, 01:43 PM
Here we go! Cool -- I need AAPL to go up above 180 asap!!!!

Zoboomafoo
Aug 13, 2008, 01:48 PM
I have plenty of friends who work for the military/government that wish they could throw their BBs away. Far away.

Of all the ways the military could dispose of something, you think they'd pick "throwing it out?"

I feel like they might be more inclined to strap them to a claymore. Or at least target practice :D

Diode
Aug 13, 2008, 01:51 PM
Do people need email INSTANTANEOUSLY? if so, TEXT or call....what's so hard about that?

Heh try telling that to people on the street. They live and die by their email.

netdog
Aug 13, 2008, 01:58 PM
Just hope Apple doesn't extend them credit.

twoodcc
Aug 13, 2008, 01:59 PM
well this would be great for Apple and the iPhone. i hope that they switch

kdarling
Aug 13, 2008, 02:04 PM
Great. Thousands of business types driving around trying to read and answer their mail while having to look at the phone and sometimes hold it with two hands.

I tell ya what's needed... an accelerometer app that prevents texting/ reading mails while in a moving vehicle.

:-)

Kilamite
Aug 13, 2008, 02:10 PM
Do people need email INSTANTANEOUSLY? if so, TEXT or call....what's so hard about that?

If you worked in a large firm and needed to tell 100 employees something, Push email is the best, quickest and cheapest way.

100 text messages - restricted to phones only. And text messages aren't always instant. Email isn't. Plus text messages cost money to send, email doesn't (aside from ISP fees). And calling 100 employees individually?!

The Tall One
Aug 13, 2008, 02:17 PM
Dammit, my company gave me a blackberry.

kornyboy
Aug 13, 2008, 02:22 PM
Wirelessly posted (iPhone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_0_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5B108 Safari/525.20)

Hope this doesn't mean we'll be having another iPhone shortage here in the US because of HSBC.

Me too. I do, however, forsee Apple spending production on the large order and making the individual consumer wait. Take a look at the powermac G5 from a few years ago. People waited 6+ months to get their computer partly due to the fact that Apple elected to fill Va Tech's order first. I do like Apple as a whole but sometimes I feel that they could treat their customers with a little more respect.

denm316
Aug 13, 2008, 02:34 PM
My personal phone is an iPhone and I have a BB for work. The BB is a great phone all around for business, its been rock solid for me. I am on the BB all day and it only needs to be charged every couple days where as my iPhone is a different story. I would think it is a joke to give out company iPhones, its like asking people to be less productive.

One other great thing with the BB is the tethering option. So when I need to use my laptop, I can just plug my phone in or use Bluetooth.

bytethese
Aug 13, 2008, 02:35 PM
Laughing. I was thinking the same thing. Monkey Ball for everyone.

:)

I mean, it's got great uses:

1. Watch training/company/tutorial/etc videos on the iPhone.
2. Listen to company Podcasts
3. Email
4. Custom Apps for your company

The downsides are:
1. Watching movies
2. Playing games
3. Browsing the internet (with 3G not so bad to browse blocked or sites you want no one in networking snooping on)

I think overall it would help in the workplace but a few "bad apples" (ha, nice pun right?) might see a serious drop in productivity. :)

huntercr
Aug 13, 2008, 02:42 PM
HSBC is indeed a very large corporation.

To that end, I was wondering why MacRumors felt they needed to put quotes around the word "giant" in the article? It's kind of rude given the context.

Just because a bank is relatively unknown in the USA doesn't mean it isn't one of the largest most important banks on the planet you know. ;)

IMNA Teacher, but seems to me that's correct English... They are using a metaphor ( that is a noun ) as an adjective. The quotes add proper emphasis.

Consider: Industry tool, Walt Mossberg.
Versus: Industry "tool", Walt Mossberg.

alphaod
Aug 13, 2008, 02:52 PM
someone should tell HSBC that the e-mail app is still unreliable.

Well if this becomes a possibility, maybe Apple will increase their network capacity a lot more and hopefully achieve 99.99% uptime!

If you worked in a large firm and needed to tell 100 employees something, Push email is the best, quickest and cheapest way.

100 text messages - restricted to phones only. And text messages aren't always instant. Email isn't. Plus text messages cost money to send, email doesn't (aside from ISP fees). And calling 100 employees individually?!

Imagine calling a few thousand employees :eek: Or in HSBC's case 300,000 of them.

Queso
Aug 13, 2008, 02:58 PM
Damn. That means we'll have to find a nickname for the iPhone that's as good as Crackberry :(

iPium? iPhetamine? Someone help me out here...

lazyrighteye
Aug 13, 2008, 03:05 PM
Weird.
It almost sounds like HSBC is oblivious to the instability that plagues MobileMe.

Regardless, iPhone 3G can still be pretty difficult to find in the States. Can't imagine this "development" adding much in the way of relief for U.S. supply/demand.

But if true, this is great news for Apple. For all the obvious (and maybe not so obvious) reasons. Hopefully they can ramp up production to meet those numbers/demand. In the same breath, increasing the rate of production is directly proportionate to device flaws. Either way...

If untrue, it's still good PR.

I need caffeine...

Marky_Mark
Aug 13, 2008, 03:17 PM
I highly doubt HSBC will move forward with this for several reasons. However, this could be good because maybe HSBC will leverage their buying power to get Apple to:

-Properly implement a remote wipe - the one they have now doesn't work too well. The one on the Blackberry's is SOLID and completely renders the device useless.

-Properly lock down all aspects of the phone:
-disable the app store
-only allow a specific list of apps to run on the phone
-filter web traffic so employees can only visit certain web sites on their phone

-Add a snooze button to calendar events

-Add sync with your to-do task list in Outlook!!!!

-Solve the 3G reception issues

-Improve battery life to that of a Blackberry, or make an iPhone with a removable battery. Most blackberry users are mobile, and can go a day or two without charging their phone.

Seriously, Blackberries are tried and true in the corporate world. The iPhone is awesome, but Apple needs to make a corporate version of the iPhone which competes and functions directly like the technology they are trying to replace, otherwise most corporations will view the iPhone as another toy to distract workers from getting their jobs done.


Someone a bit higher up asked if anyone worked for an IT department. I do. I have one word for you all: robustness. When it's someone's own money, they treat the device well and take care of it and pay attention to potential risks. When it's an allocated corporate device, noticably less care is taken because they can just get a new one if their's one breaks.

When I drop my employer's Blackberry Curve it bounces. I know because I have and it does. If it does break, I'll get a hotswap from central IS and no questions asked. Now, if I dropped my iPhone 3G, the screen would almost certainly crack, I'd cry a little bit, and then I'd have to pony up my own money for a new one. So I'm going to take a lot more care with my iPhone than my Blackberry. Can you imagine what the breakage rate will be on corporate iPhones? it'll be horrendous, they're simply not built for that environment. A simple calculation of replacement unit volumes will nix any migration business case.

megfilmworks
Aug 13, 2008, 03:17 PM
Weird.
It almost sounds like HSBC is oblivious to the instability that plagues MobileMe.


Why should they care? It has nothing to do with Exchange which has been working very well.

zelmo
Aug 13, 2008, 03:20 PM
Damn. That means we'll have to find a nickname for the iPhone that's as good as Crackberry :(

iPium? iPhetamine? Someone help me out here...

I refer to them as BlechBerry, not CrackBerry.:) sometimes people don't notice what I've said, probably thinking I just booted the pronunciation.

Most of our group uses BlackBerry, and they really like them. I think it comes down to what you want out of it. If you really just want access to your corporate email, the BlackBerry is a great device.
If you want access to the web too, then the iPhone might be the way to go. If I'm a salesman sitting in traffic or cooling my heels waiting at a client's office, I'd much rather do web prospecting or fact-gathering on an iPhone as opposed to using a BB.

whooleytoo
Aug 13, 2008, 03:20 PM
If you worked in a large firm and needed to tell 100 employees something, Push email is the best, quickest and cheapest way.


Cheapest, certainly. But a custom messaging solution would be more secure, faster and more flexible than push email. If it's THAT important, I don't think they should be cutting corners, but different strokes...

I think it's unlikely that they'll go for the iPhone any time soon. Not because the iPhone isn't good enough, but because it's not proven enough. They're not going to spend 200,000 x unit cost of iPhone + (200,000 x monthly tariff per month) on a "maybe".

That said, letting the iPhone's competitors know that HSBC are shopping around doesn't do any harm..

BornAgainMac
Aug 13, 2008, 03:23 PM
Damn. That means we'll have to find a nickname for the iPhone that's as good as Crackberry :(

iPium? iPhetamine? Someone help me out here...

It's nick name was the "Jesus Phone" in the past. It was a major change to the industry. The most famous phone ever made.

applebum
Aug 13, 2008, 03:33 PM
Someone a bit higher up asked if anyone worked for an IT department. I do. I have one word for you all: robustness. When it's someone's own money, they treat the device well and take care of it and pay attention to potential risks. When it's an allocated corporate device, noticably less care is taken because they can just get a new one if their's one breaks.

When I drop my employer's Blackberry Curve it bounces. I know because I have and it does. If it does break, I'll get a hotswap from central IS and no questions asked. Now, if I dropped my iPhone 3G, the screen would almost certainly crack, I'd cry a little bit, and then I'd have to pony up my own money for a new one. So I'm going to take a lot more care with my iPhone than my Blackberry. Can you imagine what the breakage rate will be on corporate iPhones? it'll be horrendous, they're simply not built for that environment. A simple calculation of replacement unit volumes will nix any migration business case.

After watching this (http://danmobile.blogspot.com/2008/07/iphone-3g-drop-and-stress-test.html), it would appear that the iPhone 3g can handle itself very well. I have dropped my original iPhone several times - a good case will make it almost indestructable.

Motley
Aug 13, 2008, 03:33 PM
It's nick name was the "Jesus Phone" in the past. It was a major change to the industry. The most famous phone ever made.

I thought it was called that mockingly, as in people are acting like the thing's the second coming of Christ.

dkovalev
Aug 13, 2008, 03:40 PM
delete

sjo
Aug 13, 2008, 03:51 PM
Whie Apple has not released official sales numbers for the iPhone 3G beyond the first weekend, analysts are predicting that Apple will sell at least 4.47 million (http://apple20.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/08/13/analyst-apple-will-sell-447-million-iphones-this-quarter/) iPhones this quarter. This estimate reportedly doesn't take into account Apple's international iPhone in 22 additional countries later this month.


munsters' numbers are really weird, what he says about the methodology and what he reports as numbers do not add up. based on the info on the article less than 900,000 iphones sold through apple retail, or less than half what munster claims.

cschulz
Aug 13, 2008, 03:52 PM
I'm going to guess more like 8 Million iPhones by the end of December. I don't think this is entirely an unreasonable number for Apple to hit considering Christmas, the very reasonable price, and all of the other countries it's going to be available in in the next few months.

brockm
Aug 13, 2008, 03:57 PM
Except, Mobile Mail.app sucks donkey balls. Let us list features that BlackBerry has for e-mail that iPhone does NOT:

- Ability to mass-mark mail read or unread.
- Ability to view all inboxes for multiple accounts in an aggregated view
- Ability to to cut-and-paste to and from emails
- Ability to save draft messages
- Ability to create email filters on the phone.
- Ability to download and save attachments, then send those attachments to other recipients in new emails (non-forwarded)
- Ability to create and use email templates on the phone
- True push service via the BlackBerry Internet Service (BIS) not BES, which works with Gmail.
- Spellcheck (and no, word-complete while typing is not the same thing)
- Ability to move messages to different folders.
- Ability to save messages locally to the handheld (so they are not automatically removed beyond the inbox time window)
- 3DES encrypted send/receive of all email. All BlackBerry handhelds relay all incoming and outgoing mails via a 3DES encrypted connection to either the BIS or BES server for ultimate delivery.
- And more...

These feature differences between the BlackBerry email solution and the iPhone Mail is not minor in any way. Despite Jesus Jobs proclamation that the iPhone is the "best email experience on a mobile phone", the reality could not be further from the truth.

In fact, as far as Smartphones go... iPhone is among the WORST email experiences, from a features point of view. I mean, no copy and paste?

The iPhone is no Blackberry killer. Sorry. It's really not.

I'm an iPhone 3G user, who gave up the blackberry. And while nothing compares to the iPhone's mobile web browsing experience, I can say... as far as real enterprise communication functionality goes, the iPhone is an order of magnitude crappier. If HSBC scraps BlackBerry, I can predict many of their employees will go apesh*t over the loss of some or all of the aforementioned features.

lewchenko
Aug 13, 2008, 04:12 PM
I work at HSBC in the UK.

They have just started rolling out and advertising internally 'project evergreen', which allows us to upgrade our current blackberry to any other blackberry of our choice.

We can choose from the curve, the pearl, and the new bold 9000 version.

Ive selected the Bold 9000 version, which should start rolling out late August.

Im sorry to disappoint the apple fanboys, but I cant see HSBC ditching their blackberry rollout and support services... here's another reason why...

On our blackberries we have a host of support applications which are required to work effectively (for security I cant state what they are). I doubt very much they even exist on the iphone platform, and my blackberry is useless to me without these extra applications.

For us, the blackberry is more than just email, as it integrates with so much other stuff at HSBC.

This story is just wishful thinking Im afraid.

Marky_Mark
Aug 13, 2008, 04:15 PM
After watching this (http://danmobile.blogspot.com/2008/07/iphone-3g-drop-and-stress-test.html), it would appear that the iPhone 3g can handle itself very well. I have dropped my original iPhone several times - a good case will make it almost indestructable.

I'm still not convinced, I'm afraid. Quite impressive washing it off, but not recommended! Five drops onto a pavement killed the 3G. This is quite predictable levels of drops over, say, a six month period in a city environment. The problem is the glass screen. It's never going to take the punishment that a plastic screen can withstand. And why would I want a case? My Blackberry doesn't have a case. Besides, if you roll out 200,000 iPhones each with a £10 case (or even £5 because you're a banking giant with a kickass procurement organisation) that's an additional £2M expenditure. Or £1M expenditure. Either way it's ****-loads of money, that I didn't have to spend when my staff had Blackberries. Any finance director worth his salt would bounce the req. I stand by my original reservations.

PCMA
Aug 13, 2008, 04:16 PM
What's with the inverted commas around "giant" in relation to HSBC.

Based on market cap HSBC is the largest bank in the world. There are other measures - but market cap is particularly apt given your other story today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hsbc

Psst... Macrumours (yes - with a "u")... I'll let you in to a little secret... there's more to the world than the United States.

:)

brockm
Aug 13, 2008, 04:16 PM
I'm still not convinced, I'm afraid. Quite impressive washing it off, but not recommended! Five drops onto a pavement killed the 3G. This is quite predictable levels of drops over, say, a six month period in a city environment. The problem is the glass screen. It's never going to take the punishment that a plastic screen can withstand. I stand by my original reservations.

Blackberry's have tempered glass screens too, actually. Just the body is plastic.

nickmcghie
Aug 13, 2008, 04:25 PM
HSBC is indeed a very large corporation.

To that end, I was wondering why MacRumors felt they needed to put quotes around the word "giant" in the article? It's kind of rude given the context.

Just because a bank is relatively unknown in the USA doesn't mean it isn't one of the largest most important banks on the planet you know. ;)

I completely agree. Many (but not all) people in the U.S. are, unfortunately, quite ignorant when it comes to international issues. According to Wikipedia, HSBC is "the world's largest company and the world's largest banking group, as calculated based on different metrics by the annual Forbes list of the world's largest firms published on April 2, 2008. In February 2008, HSBC was named the world's most valuable banking brand by The Banker magazine."

So, MacRumors, why must "giant" be put in quotation marks?? It's like calling Apple an "innovative" technology company.

That said, if such an adoption does happen, it would be very significant for Apple. Despite all the growth Apple has experienced in recent years, the top-tiers of the business world (investment banking, management consulting, etc.) is still firmly entrenched in Windows. For instance, a friend who I convinced to purchase a MacBook earlier this year (and loved it) recently started working at a large investment bank and told me she wants to switch back to Windows simply because "everyone at work uses it." If HSBC, the world's largest bank, were to begin adopting Apple products, it could set off a chain of events that would make Apple a powerful player in the enterprise market.

dkovalev
Aug 13, 2008, 04:26 PM
Delete

Marky_Mark
Aug 13, 2008, 04:33 PM
Blackberry's have tempered glass screens too, actually. Just the body is plastic.

Of course they do, but either way, people won't look after them because they don't own them, and whatever anyone says, an exposed glass screen is more vulnerable than one that isn't. One of my staff threw his BB across a meeting room last week. Then he picked it up, dusted it off and apologised (it was a tough phone call - biiigggg outage - one for another day). If he'd done that with an iPhone we would've needed a dustpan and brush. Corporate tools are just that: tools, and they don't get treated with respect.

johnnyjibbs
Aug 13, 2008, 04:39 PM
this is great news. HSBC is my bank so I'm pleased to see they're investing in Apple! I can see other businesses watching this and others following suit of all goes well. One wrong move though...

Hopefully apple will speed up updates of needed features (suck as copy and paste) when big business customers start requesting them.

Canerican
Aug 13, 2008, 04:48 PM
I work for HSBC and I would appreciate this alot!

And why is the word giant in parenthesis? HSBC is the largest bank in England, the largest in New York state, and according to Forbes the biggest COMPANY in the world (April, 2008).

Although, I must say that this doesn't make sense as HSBC is consistently very far behind technologically.

geerlingguy
Aug 13, 2008, 05:02 PM
I disagree. My Blackberry is super user friendly. And the iPhone will not become standard any time soon. Blackberrys are just too good for email. The iPhone can't get it shizz straight, and the Blackberry has been tried and true for years

The Blackberry is great for text. The keyboard on it makes it so. However, as far as 'general computing' goes, the iPhone kicks the Blackberry like the US kicked France in the Mens' 400m freestyle relay.

A lot of companies might consider the iPhone because it is so easy to program for. I think one thing that would take the iPhone to new lengths is Apple's allowance of hardware interfacing. Not only could you have a hardware game pad (like the iControl thing), you could also have bar-code scanners, credit card swipers, etc.

Marky_Mark
Aug 13, 2008, 05:15 PM
I can type much faster on my iPhone than on my Blackberry. Didn't think I would, but only after a week or so, I'm cooking. I think it's because you only have to touch the keys and not push them, if you see what I mean.

luckylou
Aug 13, 2008, 05:16 PM
We've been trying to order 30+ 3G iPhones since the day they came out but our AT&T business rep (and every other one I talked to when i tried the run-around) says corporations are currently limited to a maximum of THREE iPhones.

I said if Coca-Cola or any major company wanted like 3,000 they would surely get them. He said no, he has large corps who want them but can't get them because of this policy. All the AT&T reps are ticked because they want the sales commissions. The three phone cap is AT&T policy based on perceived supply and corporate foot-dragging at this point.

We need our minutes pooled and all billed centrally, so we can't all buy individually and get re-imbursed.

Has any IT guy out there received more than three for his company? I can't imagine it's possible they're constraining supplies to all companies.

brockm
Aug 13, 2008, 05:32 PM
Just a couple things...
1)you can move messages to different folders(under the edit menu)
2)why would u need numerous accounts for a WORK phone?
3)my messages are never deleted until i delete them off the server(so why would i want them to take up space on my phone too?)
4)the iphone does have true push service, through the exchange server
5)a lot of your other "missing features" are simple changes. (i agree on the lack of copy & paste-shouldve been in 1.0.0)


D

I really don't get the point of your last point. Asserting that a bunch of missing features will be easy to implement does not mitigate the fact they are missing. The fact that so many "simple" features are missing adds up to a big problem. And I've seen many enterprises have phones with multiple accounts set up on someones phone.

To lodge a defense of the iPhone's mail capability predicated on an assertion that the shortcomings will be eventually fixed is ridiculous. It's like me saying: look at this block of granite. Isn't it an amazing statue I have not yet carved? It beats all other statues, despite it's lack of existance.

chameleon81
Aug 13, 2008, 05:50 PM
I find writing a sms message very hard on iphone. I'm not text freak I like to call and talk but still sms is part of GSM consumption .

Replying emails should be high priority in business use of cell phones and I believe iPhone is not made for it.

I don't have big and fat fingers :)

hooch
Aug 13, 2008, 06:00 PM
That isn't my experience. I will never touch a Blackberry again.

I couldn't even type in the email address when I tried to create an email. You must have had a real keyboard. I would mess up and press the wrong key and have to keep starting over again. It is like emailing with a tweezers, a paper clip, and a ball of string. The most user unfriendly email client ever. Also if I had 200 emails and had to look at a email from 4 days ago, I would have the scroll endlessly to get to it. It was a pain to even use it as a email browser.

They must have copied the iPhone since last year's phone model so email is a pleasure.

I agree. I also don't find my blackberry user friendly. I think it may be the 8700 I have which is a big brick. I still haven't figured out how to scroll curser right/left with the thumb wheel when I need to edit text. A perl or curve may be easier to use...

sushi
Aug 13, 2008, 06:16 PM
Of all the ways the military could dispose of something, you think they'd pick "throwing it out?"

I feel like they might be more inclined to strap them to a claymore. Or at least target practice :D
Why waste a bullet?! :D

Of course for some buddies, throwing it out is at altitude. :p

After watching the stress test link in this thread, I wonder how well a BB would do against the M-1 Abrams? :p

oh and btw...hsbc uses ibm's lotus notes and not outlook/exchange.....
Interesting.

I can type much faster on my iPhone than on my Blackberry. Didn't think I would, but only after a week or so, I'm cooking. I think it's because you only have to touch the keys and not push them, if you see what I mean.
Surprising how we can adapt to the new keyboard.

On my Touch, I type one handed. Works well.

markm49uk
Aug 13, 2008, 06:36 PM
Has any IT guy out there received more than three for his company? I can't imagine it's possible they're constraining supplies to all companies.

Well I'm in the UK and it's fair to say that O2 are not making it easy for organisations to get their hands on the iPhone 3G - if you speak to the business team at O2 they say they have no stock yet Carphone Warehouse (who have the right to sell online and in stores in the UK) have plenty.

I had to buy our iPhones on a credit card, but because it was for a business address and no credit checks could be undertaken I had to pay £300 per phone security deposit which is refunded after 6 months.

Not sure about the reasoning for this control of the supply chain but....

nickXedge
Aug 13, 2008, 06:59 PM
On a side note, it would be nice if HSBC came out with an App much like the Bank of America one. I don't know a whole lot about the App but the fact that it exists is nice, I have a few different accounts at HSBC and an iPhone dedicated App would be nice to manage them, as I check them online just about every day. Perhaps if HSBC gets serious about this transition we will see a consumer App soon.

Thanatoast
Aug 13, 2008, 07:04 PM
And so the master plan begins to come together.

Step 1) Make the coolest phone that everybody wants

Step 2) Get it to work in a business climate

Step 3) "Wow, these phones work pretty good! I wonder what their computers are like?"

Step 4) Become Microsoft, except sell both the software *and* the hardware

Step 5) Profit

More steps than is traditional (and no underpants), but you get the idea...

spooky2k
Aug 13, 2008, 08:26 PM
I really don't get the point of your last point. Asserting that a bunch of missing features will be easy to implement does not mitigate the fact they are missing. The fact that so many "simple" features are missing adds up to a big problem. And I've seen many enterprises have phones with multiple accounts set up on someones phone.

To lodge a defense of the iPhone's mail capability predicated on an assertion that the shortcomings will be eventually fixed is ridiculous. It's like me saying: look at this block of granite. Isn't it an amazing statue I have not yet carved? It beats all other statues, despite it's lack of existance.

Your point is spot on, but your example is silly. Saying there is a great statue inside a block of granite is good imagination and confidence in your ability. In fact, plenty of people have said this exact thing!

Many of the missing features will be sorted soon hopefully (a few of the features you listed are inexcusably missing at the moment), but, HSBC uses Lotus Notes, which has an iPhone version coming out in a few months, and their tech staff could simply re-write all their apps for iPhones and push them out exclusively to all the HSBC iPhones (pretty cool feature for devs).

I think many of the problems that people are bringing up are solved by the above point. The newly programs could be made even better by taking into account user feedback on the old ones! There would have to be a switch over period, but this move wouldn't be crazy. It would be very beneficial to in the long run (better tech breeds innovation - and vice versa of course).

ronwasserman
Aug 13, 2008, 08:41 PM
Productivity drops 300% as users download free games to their iPhones...

And because of problems getting messages. LOL!

biggangstar
Aug 13, 2008, 10:09 PM
"HSBC could order 200,000 iPhones" grrrr i think this is the reason why is so hard to get

The news is :
Global banking giant HSBC is considering ditching the BlackBerry and adopting Apple's iPhone as its standard staff mobile device, a move that could result in an order for some 200,000 iPhones.
"We are actually reviewing iPhones from a HSBC Group perspective ... and when I say that, I mean globally,"
HSBC has some 300,000 staff internationally. A decision to standardise on the iPhone on its corporate networks would likely lead to one of the world's largest iPhone orders.

"A decision on a piece of hardware like that would potentially be deployed, conservatively, to 200,000 people," said Hush. "You know, it's a big decision, especially when you have an existing fleet out there."

"But it's definitely something we are considering from a HSBC Group perspective," he said. "We always explore the potential application of new technologies and this is no different."

Should HSBC select the iPhone as its official corporate mobile device, the decision would be a major blow to Research in Motion, maker of the BlackBerry, which is HSBC's current standard staff mobile.

Most corporations passed on the iPhone when it was first released, due to limited availability and the device's lack of support for Microsoft's Exchange email platform. However, Apple has rectified both issues, and has additionally built a number of tools into the new iPhone 3G specifically targeted at corporate use.

Hush was recently elevated from an internal position to the rank of chief information officer of the local arm of HSBC.

HSBC's Australian presence is small compared to major Australian banks, but its global operations have a US$6 billion annual technology budget and a technology team of 30,000 supporting 300,000 employees.

Hush said he did not own an iPhone, however added, "I have obviously had hands on experience with them."

Heads of technology of other large organisations were cautious about the idea of standardising the iPhone for corporate network access at the time of its launch.

While one of Australia's big four banks, CommBank, today flagged its iPhone trading application as part of its $523 million growth strategy for the year, chief information officer Michael Harte recently expressed caution about the phone's introduction into its own networks.

Steven Bandrowczak, global CIO of Nortel, which has 30,000 staff, said he doubted whether his staff would choose the iPhone over its current device, the BlackBerry due to the latter device's superior email functionality.

However, Hush's opinion differed on this matter. ZDNet.com.au asked Hush whether he thought the BlackBerry had any advantage over the iPhone.

"No, I don't. I think [the iPhone] would change some underlying infrastructure considerations from an enterprise perspective. But [Apple] have been pretty smart with the design."

No time frame has been given for a decision on the iPhone move, with Hush adding that for his position located in Australia, the iPhone was a low-ranking priority at this stage.

The CIO, whose office is located at HSBC's Sydney headquarters on George Street, Sydney is just 500 metres away from Apple's new Sydney store, but he said he had not entered due to persistent queues.

"I'm blown away every time I walk past that Apple store, and there's always people queued up outside to get in," he said. "I haven't been in there. It's always too busy."

chameleon81
Aug 13, 2008, 10:12 PM
And so the master plan begins to come together.

Step 1) Make the coolest phone that everybody wants

Step 2) Get it to work in a business climate

Step 3) "Wow, these phones work pretty good! I wonder what their computers are like?"

Step 4) Become Microsoft, except sell both the software *and* the hardware

Step 5) Profit

More steps than is traditional (and no underpants), but you get the idea...

I dont want. I also know many people who dont want.

joshigh
Aug 13, 2008, 10:18 PM
I work for HSBC and I'm pretty sure we don't have 200k mobile device users. I think that estimate is a little steep.

biggangstar
Aug 13, 2008, 10:25 PM
lol you don;t have YET hehe as far as i see HSBC might offer them as bonus to the ppl who work there.. omg let me join lol:P

gcmexico
Aug 13, 2008, 10:38 PM
pretty cool!! all teachers should be given 3g iphones!!!! it's a must:D

Jayden0606
Aug 13, 2008, 10:42 PM
Good stuff... This may start a domino effect.

eye.surgeon
Aug 13, 2008, 10:50 PM
Purely a bargaining chip. They aren't going to leave RIM. No doubt this will help them secure better pricing with RIM though.

CharQuake
Aug 13, 2008, 10:54 PM
I think if you could type e-mails horiZontally it would make the iPhone evenmore attractive to business people you can type so fast when it's sideways

djrobsd
Aug 13, 2008, 11:06 PM
I wonder how many posting about how they should switch actually work in IT Departments?

I hope HSBC bought lots of extra storage on the servers, and are ready to support a gillion itunes installs. Cause now they'll be supporting not just phones, but everyone's music collections, and they'll be storing them because that music WILL inevitability end up on the servers. Also, itunes doesn't allow updates without being an admin on the machine, so it takes yet more admin intervention to maintain.


Oh, and be ready when the RIAA or whatever Australian/European version of it comes knocking for all the pirated music on the corporate servers.

Where are you getting your info from bud? The iPhone is the most RESTRICTIVE device ever made in terms of copying music. Most users will probably take their phone home and set it up in itunes, and then they won't be able to copy music to their phones from work.

Kilamite
Aug 14, 2008, 03:28 AM
Cheapest, certainly. But a custom messaging solution would be more secure, faster and more flexible than push email. If it's THAT important, I don't think they should be cutting corners, but different strokes...

I think it's unlikely that they'll go for the iPhone any time soon. Not because the iPhone isn't good enough, but because it's not proven enough. They're not going to spend 200,000 x unit cost of iPhone + (200,000 x monthly tariff per month) on a "maybe".

Maybe the fact that the iPhone can remotely be erased is a factor that makes them interested in this.

And Push Email because you don't actually have to have the device to access it - assuming they restrict access - you'll be able to access at a computer at work, and rely on the iPhone when you are away from your desk.

danielhayter
Aug 14, 2008, 03:45 AM
Another point of view from a (past) HSBC employee. HSBC are progressive in a lot of ways, but they are also ultra conservative in a lot of other ways. They are a lender of last resort and tend to be very averse to taking risk. Like so many other 'giant' companies, HSBC has invested heavily in BB and can't just change at the snap of a finger. I would also say that the 200,000 user figure is a bit dubious - no way that that many HSBC employees currently have a company mobile. Of course, if it turns out to be true that the largest company in the world switch to iPhone, well that would be amazing! :D

MikeDTyke
Aug 14, 2008, 04:18 AM
As an ex HSBC`er i can attest to HSBC`s dependance on Lotus Notes.

They spent about 2 and a half years try to migrate off onto Exchange and guess what, they found they couldn`t do it. Not globally at any rate.

This smacks more of a negotiating tactic with RIM. Advertise your considering iPhones and that contract renewal suddenly gets much more attractive.

I`d also point out that 200K mobile users is bullcrap. Majority of employees are in the retail side of which very few have BB`s. I would guesstimate at 40K tops.

M.

AndyHogan
Aug 14, 2008, 06:30 AM
Though it may not happen, I still think this is great news because if some corporations begin to adopt the iPhone (even in small numbers) they will begin to see what a great product Apple makes. This will not only knock RIM's numbers down but cause corporations to take a second look at Macs thus lowering the Windows numbers as well. :D

able-x
Aug 14, 2008, 08:08 AM
I agree. I also don't find my blackberry user friendly. I think it may be the 8700 I have which is a big brick. I still haven't figured out how to scroll curser right/left with the thumb wheel when I need to edit text. A perl or curve may be easier to use...

You've got to be kidding me. The BB DOES come with a user guide y'know.
To scroll horizontally on an 8700, press the alt key, then scroll with the thumbwheel. It will now move horizontal instead of vertical.

GriffinFactor
Aug 14, 2008, 06:17 PM
As I understand it, the only e-mail push server for iPhone is currently Exchange? Unless they're planning to spend a lot of time, money and effort to install MS Exchange group wide, you'll find HSBC are a Lotus Notes shop!

Being a bank and having sensitive areas, you'll also find they ban mobile phones with cameras in some locations & I don't see anyone wanting to leave their iPhone at the security lodge. I guess this is one reason BB makes the 8800 with no camera. Theres also a lot of BB users wouldn't swap their "proper" keyboard for a flat screen.

Oh and who said HSBC was a progressive bank? I did laugh!

AdeFowler
Aug 20, 2008, 04:34 AM
Not happening:

http://www.macworld.co.uk/ipod-itunes/news/index.cfm?RSS&NewsID=22484

seedster2
Aug 20, 2008, 12:33 PM
much ado about nothing

So much for the wild predictions of immediate corporate penetration...