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MacRumors
Jan 8, 2004, 12:28 PM
Apple and HP have announced an interesting partnership

Working to provide consumers with the most compelling digital content whenever and wherever they desire, HP (NYSE:HPQ) and Apple (Nasdaq:AAPL) today announced a strategic alliance to deliver an HP-branded digital music player based on Apple's iPod, the No. 1 digital music player in the world, and Apple's award-winning iTunes digital music jukebox and pioneering online music store to HP's customers.

HP and Compaq PCs and notebooks will come preinstalled with Apple's iTunes software starting this summer. According to Steve Jobs, "Apple's goal is to get iPods and iTunes into the hands of every music lover around the world, and partnering with HP, an innovative consumer company, is going to help us do just that".

Peter Lowe, Apple's applications marketing chief, was recently quotedurging that PC manufacturers to bundle iTunes for Windows because of its distinct advantages over other services.

Rumors of an HP Branded Player and Music Store were reported in early December, but there had been no indications that it was going to be an iTunes-rebrand

greenstork
Jan 8, 2004, 12:30 PM
Now that's a partnership worthy of market domination

ehawk
Jan 8, 2004, 12:31 PM
This is definitely huge! Who needs downloads from PC's when you can give it to them at the time of purchase.

AirUncleP
Jan 8, 2004, 12:32 PM
All Apple has to do is get it in the hands of the masses and this sounds like a step in the right direction.

Stoffel
Jan 8, 2004, 12:33 PM
Sounds like a good idea. I wonder how it will look like. Probably not so well designed.....

Plissken
Jan 8, 2004, 12:34 PM
This is huge! HP/Compaq is the largest computer corpoation in the country and they just turned to Apple for some product outsourcing. Talk about recognizing a popular market dominating product! this will be a very good entrenchment tool for the future of Apple and the iTMS/iPod product line.

vniow
Jan 8, 2004, 12:34 PM
Wow.

me_94501
Jan 8, 2004, 12:35 PM
As long as it's a blow to MS's music plans, it's good, even if the iPod itself loses share (though Apple would likely get money from licensing).

tny
Jan 8, 2004, 12:35 PM
Either HP or Apple is out of its mind. Either 1. Apple has given up on the idea of using the iPod to entice consumers to its computing platform, and figures it's worthwhile just to go after their MP3 player dollars, or 2. Apple thinks it's still a sound strategy, and HP is handing them a major victory.

srobert
Jan 8, 2004, 12:36 PM
Well... at least they won't be able to say that you can only get AAC form iTunes and can only play those on the iPod.

This is BIG news. That's the second big argument that they were touting against the iTMS that is not valied anymore. (First one was that ITMS had only 350 000 songs as opposed to 500 000)

agreenster
Jan 8, 2004, 12:36 PM
Must say that this is an extremely suprising alliance. Why this wasn't announced at MWSF is beyond me.

I usually dont do this but,

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

I think the situation warrants it.

Good for Apple and HP. 'Bout time something like this happened.

Plissken
Jan 8, 2004, 12:37 PM
the answer is 1.5
both.

ITR 81
Jan 8, 2004, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by Stoffel
Sounds like a good idea. I wonder how it will look like. Probably not so well designed.....

Probably same iPod just different faceplate cover with HP or Compaq logo on the back.


How much of the PC market does HP and Compaq hold? Around 30% or so?

Looks like iTunes and the iPod will be gaining even more PC users.

Coleco
Jan 8, 2004, 12:39 PM
This is no different than HP selling printers in the Mac market.
I'll bet these will be identical to iPods except for something like a color variation and an "HP with Apple technology" badge.

Could make for some good price competition, but you've gotta wonder how the retail market will choose which player it will carry.

hvfsl
Jan 8, 2004, 12:40 PM
I wonder if HP's iPod will be cheaper than Apple's, like the Mac clones were when Apple allowed clones. I wouldnt mind getting a cheaper iPod, even if it did have a HP logo on it. I could always put an Apple sticker on it. :D

jholzner
Jan 8, 2004, 12:41 PM
I hope Apple is getting a small fee for iTunes being preinstalled on their PC's too. I know it's free to download but to let a pc vendor include it should cost a little :)

the_mole1314
Jan 8, 2004, 12:41 PM
I have one big problem with this: the re-branded iPod. I mean, what would it be? Would it just be the iPod, Apple logo and all, or a whole new shell? I'm worried about the iPod.

QCassidy352
Jan 8, 2004, 12:41 PM
hmm. I wonder how much the "HP ipod" will be like the real ipod. The same thing with an HP on the back instead of an apple? Or slight cosmetic modifications?

arn
Jan 8, 2004, 12:42 PM
this is huge.

arn

Marlon_JBT
Jan 8, 2004, 12:43 PM
This is huge.

iTunes provided by HP Compaq

hPod Music Player

What will Apple think of next? Hopefully all of this money from licensing will go towards research and development for future Apple products.

I'm with Coleco... this is probably going to be a badge engineered product, maybe with button and UI relocations/modifications.

the_mole1314
Jan 8, 2004, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by arn
this is huge.

arn

What's next? The new iHP, now running PPC G5 technology and OSX?

Plissken
Jan 8, 2004, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by arn
this is huge.

arn

umm, my sentiments exactly!

achmafooma
Jan 8, 2004, 12:44 PM
This'll be huge... really huge. I know a number of people who hadn't even heard of the iTunes Music Store... the same types of people who don't know that they can download Netscape instead of using Internet Explorer.

Lots of people only use what comes with their computers. iTunes being bundled with HPs is going to be HUGE for Apple.

And when people get familiar with Apple and how cool Apple's stuff is, maybe their next computer won't be another HP, but a Mac. Just the mindshare boost will help Mac marketshare in the long run.

Mindshare is important, and the more Apple gets the better. Things are already looking up (no more derisive looks from IT nerds when you mention "Mac" in their presence... heck, half the IT nerds I know [including myself] are switchers now).

But where most IT nerds at least have a healthy respect for Apple now (hey, it's UNIX!), having iTunes on every HP user's desktop will help immensely with mindshare among "average" computer users who--in many cases--hardly know a thing about the iPod, iTMS, or the Mac.

srobert
Jan 8, 2004, 12:45 PM
It's been a long time since I have'nt seen a near 100% positive rated thread.

The press release is almost identical on Apple and HP's site:

HP's Press Release (http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2004/040108b.html)

Apple's Press Release (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2004/jan/08hp.html)

Finiksa
Jan 8, 2004, 12:45 PM
Beige iPod!

Now that would be progress ;)

kryten2000
Jan 8, 2004, 12:45 PM
All I can say is holy s**#

hell must be frozen over

ITR 81
Jan 8, 2004, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by hvfsl
I wonder if HP's iPod will be cheaper than Apple's, like the Mac clones were when Apple allowed clones. I wouldnt mind getting a cheaper iPod, even if it did have a HP logo on it. I could always put an Apple sticker on it. :D

More then likely not.
Though due to more marketshares I'm willing to bet the pricing comes down over 6 months time frame.

Le Big Mac
Jan 8, 2004, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by tny
Either HP or Apple is out of its mind. Either 1. Apple has given up on the idea of using the iPod to entice consumers to its computing platform, and figures it's worthwhile just to go after their MP3 player dollars, or 2. Apple thinks it's still a sound strategy, and HP is handing them a major victory.

No, and no. It's win win. Apple wants to sell iPods to PC users. So, for those who don't want an apple product, they'll sell the iPod in an HP/Compaq case (same guts, different colored-plastic and badge, and a different start screen). HP/Compaq, meanwhile, can sell a product that's built for PCs with access to "the number one onl-line music store." Once Apple started selling a pure-PC product, it was clear the Apple-only strategy was not dominant. Besides, the HPPod will undoubtedly work with a Mac too.

In the meantime, MS gets the shaft, because now iPod/iTunes is being sold to 5% + 25% of the computer market.

CrackedButter
Jan 8, 2004, 12:48 PM
This is good, all I can say WOW but that isn't enough.

But I do wonder how the iPods will be branded. Plus I wonder what is more important to Apple, the ipods and iTunes or people buying macs, because they just bought a HP PC.

Strange but it seems Apple isn't wanting to be pushed aside in the mp3 market.

Le Big Mac
Jan 8, 2004, 12:49 PM
Originally posted by jholzner
I hope Apple is getting a small fee for iTunes being preinstalled on their PC's too. I know it's free to download but to let a pc vendor include it should cost a little :)

Why. A PC vendor would say "why don't you pay us, since everyone else (uh, microsoft) gives it to us for free"

Insatiable
Jan 8, 2004, 12:49 PM
The HPod? Cool.

racolvin
Jan 8, 2004, 12:50 PM
Hmmmm ...

The HiPod? :)

Because the text reads that the HP version will be price competitive with other brands, how much you wanna bet it'll be a 2Gb version made with the Cornice 1" HD mechanism, for $199? It'd prolly use the same form factor and appearence as the new miniPod, but with a new HP faceplate.

Either that or Hitachi will be dropping the price on the HD currently used in the miniPod when they release their 0.8" mechanism.

Pure speculation of course :)

CrackedButter
Jan 8, 2004, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by kryten2000
All I can say is holy s**#

hell must be frozen over

Again...


...you know if it keeps happening, the "Hell Frozen Over" catchphrase is going to wearout and won't have a dramatic effect.

dricci
Jan 8, 2004, 12:50 PM
This is great news indeed! Hopefully the HP devices will be Mac compatible as well, then we could have more choices with devices and still be able to play our AAC songs and such. It'd be great if Apple could get other PC manufacturers to join in on this as well, the more choices, the better!

Up next, HP G5 desktops running 10.3.3 :-P (j/k!)

Frobozz
Jan 8, 2004, 12:52 PM
Apple is doing everything so well these days. If they want to make money, increase sales, and in turn sell more macs they have to do things like this.

They aren't selling the farm, like they did with clones, in order to increase marketshare... they're increasing MINDSHARE... and that translates almost directly into Marketshare. The numbers are starting to show this, too.

Good job, Apple. I fully believe they will astound us with PowerMac updates no later than mid-february... and when those Mini iPods come down to $199 (maybe 4 months time as some have heard), I'll snap one up with my dual 3 GHz G5. :-)

srobert
Jan 8, 2004, 12:53 PM
Originally posted by Le Big Mac In the meantime, MS gets the shaft, because now iPod/iTunes is being sold to 5% + 25% of the computer market. [/B]


BAHM! Amen to that. There goes that lame competion's argument.

This is a good day for AAC. take that ATRACP and WMA.

slowtreme
Jan 8, 2004, 12:53 PM
HOW did this NOT make in into the Keynote? If you wanted WOW factor, there it is.

Maybe the hPod will be iPod mini's only ;)

spankalee
Jan 8, 2004, 12:53 PM
Originally posted by Finiksa
Beige iPod!

Now that would be progress ;)

Grey, it's the new Beige!

Frobozz
Jan 8, 2004, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by CrackedButter
Again...


...you know if it keeps happening, the "Hell Frozen Over" catchphrase is going to wearout and won't have a dramatic effect.

At this point hell has frozen over, Phill Parcells is coaching the Cowboys, and I'm waiting for a swarm of locusts...

machinehien
Jan 8, 2004, 12:55 PM
woah that is huge. Aren't HP and Apple real close to each other?

I guess the partnership makes sense, HP isn't doing that well but has access to a huge market. As for the design, not too sure, I'm pretty sure they will keep Ive's form factor, just tweak the back and maybe do a different color to differentiate. They can't stray too far or they lose the cachet value of Apple's Industrial design.

Wonder Boy
Jan 8, 2004, 12:55 PM
awesome.

Photorun
Jan 8, 2004, 12:55 PM
Holy cats! This is like return of the clones, er... okay... not. Still, I can't recall another time Apple was going to build something and/or sell it to another company for it's use? Can anyone else? I mean, I assume the HP iPods, er, hPods? er... whatever, will have the same form and function but not be the same in color or some such (uglier in other words, but work the same). I'm stunned!

jettredmont
Jan 8, 2004, 12:56 PM
Let me be the first to beknight this the "HPod" ...

Note that the press release says the HPod will be "based on Apple's iPod". This does not mean a "rebranded" iPod. It means that some bits of the technology will be used by HP.

IMHO, this it the only way you'd ever see a low/mid=market Flash player with iPod compatibility.

An HP brand on the device instead of an Apple brand significantly lowers the "bar" of brand that the device must live up to. This can be good, because Apple doesn't want iPod associated with some segments of the market, but does want the market share for their file formats that those segments allow. Apple doesn't want people to see "iPod" and thing "$79 at WalMart!", but when people go to WalMart looking for a cheapo POC device, Apple doesn't want them to end up being locked out of upgrading to the iPod in the future.

IMHO, this is a "gateway" device. People buy the 128MB HPod as a first cheap entry into digital music. They buy songs on iTMS, start carrying them around with them. Then, pretty soon, they realize that 128MB is just way too little memory for their songs, and start looking bigger. What's bigger? The iPod, of course!

Contrast this with the current situation, of which Apple is very aware: people wanting to "toe-in" to digital music buy a WMA-based crap-flash player from RCA or Rio. They find out that the device is too small or just plain a pain to use and one of two things happen: they throw the thing in the garbage and give up on digital music (yes, I know RCA owners who had to be convinced to give digital music another try), or they look around for devices that work with what they have (a library of WMA songs), and buy a Creative or Archos brick. iPod is just not an option for these folks.

Frobozz
Jan 8, 2004, 12:58 PM
Originally posted by Le Big Mac
Why. A PC vendor would say "why don't you pay us, since everyone else (uh, microsoft) gives it to us for free"

Well, you're half right, IMHO. Although I agree that Microshaft will give it to you for free... the first couple hits of crack are always free. When you're hooked and cant' turn back, they make you "pay" one way or the other.... hence the situation we currently have in the world with Windows, Internet Explorer, Office, and Windows Media Player. They threaten to cut you off so you're no longer supporting the "number 1" solution that is "mainstream"... and that means you loose sales.

spinner
Jan 8, 2004, 12:59 PM
I must be in a parallel universe where Apple actually makes intelligent marketing decisions. :eek:

This alliance will firmly entrench iPod + iTMS as the dominating force in the legal digital music revolution. Now it is only a matter of time before the riff raff music stores begin falling by wayside. :cool:

jettredmont
Jan 8, 2004, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by Insatiable
The HPod? Cool.

Crap. I knew someone would beat me to it if I typed too long :)

ITR 81
Jan 8, 2004, 01:02 PM
I had a feeling Apple was going to annouce something at CES. I was saying that for last 3 months. Reason being was MS was suppose to release big news at the CES and I figured SJ would want to knock the PC world flat on it's arse and it did!

Hoooyah!

natey
Jan 8, 2004, 01:03 PM
Is Apple trying to hard? This makes it look like they're desperate to get sales.

This is stupid. They didn't need this. Apple'll sell as much iPod, which will somehow get more people to switch. By doing this...this is just stupid!

ShadowHunter
Jan 8, 2004, 01:04 PM
THIS IS SO AWESOME!!

I cannot stress enough how incredibly awesome this is for Apple. Yes, it is being packaged on a PC. Yes, these people aren't using a Mac yet. But its getting the Apple name out there, where people will use it!! This is 100% positive, free advertisement for Apple!!

This guarantees that at least 30% of all new PCs being sold will not use Microsoft's future garbage, but iTMS and iPod. Dell will get bullied into it, just like they do with everything else from Intel and Microsoft, but not HP/Compaq. Think about it, in a couple years 75+% of new PCs sold could have been using WMA and whatever service Microsoft would have embraced and bought out. In one swift move, that number has been pre-emptively struck in half!! We don't have to fear Microsoft's bully tactics to win the market with quantity over quality! GO APPLE!

This will help HP/Compaq market share (which takes away from Dell), it will help Apple's market share, and it puts additional nails in the coffins of all the other music stores.

I'm ecstatic, this news is exciting!

hughdogg
Jan 8, 2004, 01:04 PM
Adios Dell DJ...

Give Carly some credit, she smart enough to know when somebody else is doing it sooo much better than you can, your smart to sub it out... And give SJ some credit for making this happen too...

I'm sure there is some agreement to share revenues of the units, and sales from the ITMS. So it will be good for incremental reveune for both companies as the digital music market evolves..

Interesting how the press release mentions ITMS icon on the desktop. Given how ITMS has such a huge market share..reminds me of something a few years ago...hmmm, logo on desktop, big market share....can't quite remember it...

Cheers,
Hughdogg

Mr.Hey
Jan 8, 2004, 01:04 PM
It will be interesting to see how this affects the iPod's market share; but more interesting --- has SJ changed his mind about clones and will the results of this if successful influence other things?.

Sir_Giggles
Jan 8, 2004, 01:05 PM
Let's hope Apple worked out a profitable agreement. Last thing I want is for Apple to become another company's Beeootch.

pjkelnhofer
Jan 8, 2004, 01:05 PM
I think this is huge for the future of iTMS. But, maybe the "based on Apple's iPod" simply means it will have the capability of playing AAC's with the iTunes DRM. Nothing in the Press Release leads me to believe Apple is designing or manufacturing the player.

I think in the big picture this means Apple is going to let other people make iTunes compatible players. That means Apple must believe iTMS will be a big moneymaker on its own.

In the future, I see a lot of On-line music stores failing. Maybe as they fail Apple will come up with some way to support their players (some sort of firmware upate?). It is going to be interesting.

Awimoway
Jan 8, 2004, 01:05 PM
Wow. This is great news. Even Apple is willing to compromise on coolness to ensure global domination. Nice to see Apple growing up.

powerbookje
Jan 8, 2004, 01:06 PM
OMG this is a joke?? Maybe Apple will use HP in return to rebadge an iPaq to run a OSX lite version? dream on... :) iNewton? NewtonPaq ?

ShadowHunter
Jan 8, 2004, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by natey
Is Apple trying to hard? This makes it look like they're desperate to get sales.

This is stupid. They didn't need this. Apple'll sell as much iPod, which will somehow get more people to switch. By doing this...this is just stupid!

No way, read my post above! This is not a time to be an Apple purist, but play dirty in the PC world.

srobert
Jan 8, 2004, 01:06 PM
... Meanwhile at sony's, Microsfoft's, Dell's, Napster's, Wallmart's, MTV's, headquarters:

Together: "Oooohhhhh ******!"

Apple keeps coming up with these great things to keep ahead of the competition. This is a major multi-combo-burn ^_^

I wonder if this is an Apple or HP initiative. Probably HP. Lately's, Apples best publicity is from outiside sources: Virginia Tech, Pepsi, HP.

paulypants
Jan 8, 2004, 01:06 PM
At this point hell has frozen over, Phill Parcells is coaching the Cowboys, and I'm waiting for a swarm of locusts...


Who's Phill? :P

CrackedButter
Jan 8, 2004, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by paulypants
At this point hell has frozen over, Phill Parcells is coaching the Cowboys, and I'm waiting for a swarm of locusts...


Who's Phill? :P

Why was Cowboys being mentioned?

Les Kern
Jan 8, 2004, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by Finiksa
Beige iPod! Now that would be progress ;)

I was a beta tester for the HP iPod. It evidently came from the factory with a variation of the Nimda virus. It e-mailed my songlist to everyone in my address book, then did a denial of service to my OmniBook.
My gut feeling? Bad idea.

pkradd
Jan 8, 2004, 01:08 PM
A "re-branded" iPod means the same innards. Since Apple has patents on the solid state wheel (or is it just for the new one the the iPod mini that also has t he click points) it will function the same way. I doubt HP will get the iPod mini anytime soon. It also probably means lower prices for the Apple version although I'll bet Apple will continute to have more HD capacity. Anyway it goes, this is a real bonus to Apple. It wasn't announced at MWSF because HP wanted to announce it at the CES show. A major blow to MS and the other download stores. WOW.. DOUBLE WOW!

srobert
Jan 8, 2004, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by Les Kern
I was a beta tester for the HP iPod.


What! Say again! We need details here buddy ^_^

spankalee
Jan 8, 2004, 01:10 PM
This announcement is great news for the forces of awesome. I hope it's only the beginning.

Today I was checking out Real's Helix and a thought occurred to me; since Helix is open source (but I can't really tell if the DRM is or not) will Apple add Helix DRM support to the iPod? To me it's a much more interesting, and viable scenario than adding WMA support. It would work directly against the WMA cabal, promote AAC, and sell more iPods.

The down side with this, and with the iPod supporting any other DRM, is that Apple looses some control. Other portables could support Helix, and the Apple no longer has that nice iPod lock-in.

This agreement with HP could be Apple's solution. Don't support other formats - license the iPod and make it look like there's more players that work with iTMS, even though they're basically the same. Not a bad idea since the iPod is the best out there. It's gaining some interesting inroads, like the Alpine head-unit that has an iPod connector.

The next few months are going to be so damn interesting with the HPod, the Pepsi giveaway, the inevitable $50 price drop on the miniPod...

wordmunger
Jan 8, 2004, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by slowtreme
HOW did this NOT make in into the Keynote? If you wanted WOW factor, there it is.


Believe it or not, there is a show going on right now that is *bigger* than Macworld--it's call the CES (http://www.cesweb.org/), and it's billed as the largest tradeshow in the world. This is probably part of why Macworld seemed so "disappointing"--Apple was saving a lot of its thunder for CES. Hold on to your britches, folks--there may be more to come yet!

spinner
Jan 8, 2004, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by Sir_Giggles
Let's hope Apple worked out a profitable agreement. Last thing I want is for Apple to become another company's Beeootch.

I don't think that SJ would ever let that happen.

formatc
Jan 8, 2004, 01:12 PM
Just like the IBM PC before it, the iPod has become the reference design for a music platform.

old and busted: IBM compatible
new hotness: iPod compatible

I expect this to be a branding effort, because you know it will have to have the screen, wheel, and UI.

It will be an iPod, just with an HP logo. They may even put the logos side-by-side.

natey
Jan 8, 2004, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by ShadowHunter
[B]Yes, it is being packaged on a PC. Yes, these people aren't using a Mac yet. But its getting the Apple name out there, where people will use it!! This is 100% positive, free advertisement for Apple!!

Why would anyone in the right mind switch when they can use iTunes conveniently on the PC?

eazyway
Jan 8, 2004, 01:13 PM
This is huge news. This means that Apple now has new revenue from iPods from HP plus iTMS may become profitable although there may be a small amount of rev going to HP per song maybe 1 or 2 c per song.

Likely they will come out with a Black version with HP/Compag logo.

They will produce different accesories which could work with the Apple iPod and the larger volumes will no doubt drive the prices down a bit.

I am sure Apple will not care who sells the iPod as long as they sell in large quantities. (there is always good revenue from branding)

Expect HP to get in on the Pepsi deal and now maybe the MacDonald deal will come through and then some.....

Like I said this is huge!! Apple stock is soaring today and so are my options for Jan

me_94501
Jan 8, 2004, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by natey
Why would anyone in the right mind switch when they can use iTunes conveniently on the PC?
They'll get a taste of the Mac and come back for more.:)

SiliconAddict
Jan 8, 2004, 01:14 PM
HOLY $@(*$
http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/jawdrop.gif
This is big*.







*Note: Post has just been submitted for the understatement of the year award.

mhouse
Jan 8, 2004, 01:15 PM
My friends and I were discussing this very concept two weeks ago. His point was that Apple would never release a "cheap" iPod...it simply isn't in Apple's DNA to do so. My reply was..."Well, they should let some huge tech firm do it for them. Just license AAC and let the other company sell the commodity players"

This makes perfect sense for Apple...HP covers the 128 mb to 1gb players with the "HPod," and Apple deals in the high-end stuff with the iPod and the mini. Apple continues its dominance of the digital music indsutry and HP gets a much-needed injection of cool.

Excellent work by Steve and Carly!

Sir_Giggles
Jan 8, 2004, 01:15 PM
Yeah, once they try Mac, they never go bac.

ShadowHunter
Jan 8, 2004, 01:16 PM
Originally posted by natey
Why would anyone in the right mind switch when they can use iTunes conveniently on the PC?

You're not thinking ahead far enough.

Because when every other part of the PC falls short, and they hear from a cousin of a friend of a daughter etc etc that on the Apple it works better....their mind goes back to their hPod with an Apple logo on it and something clicks to maybe check out the Mac.

Or simply when it comes time to buy a new computer, they consider an Apple because they've been using an iTunes already and liked it, etc etc.

There's an infinite number of scenarios. Don't think in 3 month terms, think in 3 year terms.

PixelArtist
Jan 8, 2004, 01:17 PM
I hope that the new HP-Apple alliance will be strong enough to shake loose rights to Beatles music from Sony and Michael Jackson (or whoever owns Michael's portion. Perhaps after a settlement of the Beatles' suit against Apple for breaking the purported Apple no-music business constraint of an earlier settlement over use of the Apple name. Without access to the Beatles catalog, the Apple iTMS has a very large hole. Go Apple!!!!! Go HP!!!

jocknerd
Jan 8, 2004, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by Frobozz
Well, you're half right, IMHO. Although I agree that Microshaft will give it to you for free... the first couple hits of crack are always free. When you're hooked and cant' turn back, they make you "pay" one way or the other.... hence the situation we currently have in the world with Windows, Internet Explorer, Office, and Windows Media Player. They threaten to cut you off so you're no longer supporting the "number 1" solution that is "mainstream"... and that means you loose sales.

I'd have to say Apple is the same. Free iTools. Pay for .mac. Free iLife apps. Now pay for them when we're hooked.

Anyway, a great arrangement for Apple and HP! Take that Dell!

srobert
Jan 8, 2004, 01:18 PM
Go baby! Yeah! Go!

Edit: 2:34PM > No! It's going down again! Go back up baby! you can do it!

Edit: 2:42 PM > Yeah! Upward again. Thanks for listening little stock. It seems all you needed was my foot up your quote.

TODAY:
http://ichart.yahoo.com/b?s=AAPL

5-DAYS:
http://ichart.yahoo.com/w?s=AAPL

gotohamish
Jan 8, 2004, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by jettredmont
Crap. I knew someone would beat me to it if I typed too long :)

Oddly, my iPod has been called hPod for a for 2 years - but that's because my name begins with an 'H'.

Incidentally, this hPod may just be identical, but blue/grey. Or... it may just use some of the technology.

ShadowHunter
Jan 8, 2004, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by srobert
Go baby! Yeah! Go!

http://ichart.yahoo.com/b?s=AAPL

Damnit, where's my investing money when I need it!! :D

I think I am high I am so excited with this news!

Mr.Hey
Jan 8, 2004, 01:20 PM
I like the interpertion of this over atMac.ars (http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=50009562&f=8300945231&m=12900727926)


Perhaps Apple will take the low-end MP3 player market by designing such a device for HP? That way the iPods take the mid to high-end range pricepoints and HP can take the low-end? I think it was quite clear from Tuesday's announcement that Apple isn't too eager to take the low-end MP3 market.


so...only logical scenario i see is...
HP releases iPods in 5 and 10 GB range for 149-199 or something

jocknerd
Jan 8, 2004, 01:21 PM
Originally posted by spankalee
This announcement is great news for the forces of awesome. I hope it's only the beginning.

Today I was checking out Real's Helix and a thought occurred to me; since Helix is open source (but I can't really tell if the DRM is or not) will Apple add Helix DRM support to the iPod? To me it's a much more interesting, and viable scenario than adding WMA support. It would work directly against the WMA cabal, promote AAC, and sell more iPods.

The down side with this, and with the iPod supporting any other DRM, is that Apple looses some control. Other portables could support Helix, and the Apple no longer has that nice iPod lock-in.

This agreement with HP could be Apple's solution. Don't support other formats - license the iPod and make it look like there's more players that work with iTMS, even though they're basically the same. Not a bad idea since the iPod is the best out there. It's gaining some interesting inroads, like the Alpine head-unit that has an iPod connector.

The next few months are going to be so damn interesting with the HPod, the Pepsi giveaway, the inevitable $50 price drop on the miniPod...

Vendor lock-in always comes back to bite the vendor in the long run. It happened to Apple in the hardware market and it will happen in the digital music player market unless Apple finds a way to get their DRM into other music services.

El Tritoma
Jan 8, 2004, 01:22 PM
Maybe Apple doesn't want to produce a flash memory based player because it will hurt their quality image. Maybe HP will be the ones to put out this type of player. Apple gets licensing fees, more people are linked up to iTunes, but Apple can stand by its marketing strategy of not putting out bottom end stuff and still get market share from the lower end. Apple won't have to make a US$100 player - HP will do it for them.

SiliconAddict
Jan 8, 2004, 01:23 PM
PS- Get Gateway and Toshiba on board *drools at the thought*

VicMacs
Jan 8, 2004, 01:23 PM
this might just be what apple needed, a portal into the other world.

bcstanding
Jan 8, 2004, 01:23 PM
Maybe now when we Mac users berate the insolent we'll say "Go buy an HP" instead of "Go buy a Dell"... ;)

Wkaemena
Jan 8, 2004, 01:25 PM
And finally every HP and Compac computer will come with Quicktime installed..... ( via itunes for WIN):D

Lanbrown
Jan 8, 2004, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by Le Big Mac
No, and no. It's win win. Apple wants to sell iPods to PC users. So, for those who don't want an apple product, they'll sell the iPod in an HP/Compaq case (same guts, different colored-plastic and badge, and a different start screen). HP/Compaq, meanwhile, can sell a product that's built for PCs with access to "the number one onl-line music store." Once Apple started selling a pure-PC product, it was clear the Apple-only strategy was not dominant. Besides, the HPPod will undoubtedly work with a Mac too.

In the meantime, MS gets the shaft, because now iPod/iTunes is being sold to 5% + 25% of the computer market.

The firmware could be different and it could allow PeeCee only use. They could be set for USB only as well as the iPod file system. Apple could make them a Windows only device and keep the current iPod both. Another possibility would be that HP would need to do their own GUI for the iTunes client and ITMS as well as provide their own bandwidth. The firmware for the iPod could also be their responsibility. It's not all that uncommon for a company to sell a product for someone else to sell and leave some of the work to them. Adaptec sells SCSI chipsets, but some of the firmware is up to the OEM to do. Adaptec gives them a reference to use if they want, but if Adaptec releases an update for their cards, it will not install on the OEM chipsets, that must come from the OEM.

david_r_p
Jan 8, 2004, 01:27 PM
Strategic partnerships like this will help Apple continue to stay at the top of the heap. Apple will likely keep the iPod priced at or close to full retail, while letting future "rebranders" such as HP the ability to offer deep discounts and get the segment of the market that is all about price.

I wonder if other deals are in the works? Clearly not Sony, but perhaps Gateway.

Very good news from my point of view.

SiliconAddict
Jan 8, 2004, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by El Tritoma
Maybe Apple doesn't want to produce a flash memory based player because it will hurt their quality image.


What the heck does capacity have to do with quality? Heck in fact flash could be considered higher quality at least in terms of ruggedness and durability. CF is one tough SOB. I washed a 128MB CF card and to date it still works. Had to let it dry out for 3 days but it works.

hughdogg
Jan 8, 2004, 01:30 PM
Anybody else read the press release...http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2004/jan/08hp.html

"According to internal HP research, more than 54 percent of current HP consumers download music to their PCs."

Last quarter HP shipped 38.4 million PC's (according to their website) which means roughly 20 Million folks a quarter download music to their HP PC's...damn it I was going to buy some Apple stock yesterday, damn...

These could make the numbers SJ annouced yesterday for ITMS sales look miniscule compared to what gets announced at Macworld '04

I wonder if this mean the ITMS will be going worldwide soon for our poor European and Canadian friends????

Cheers,
Hughdoog

Codemonkey
Jan 8, 2004, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by formatc
old and busted: IBM compatible
new hotness: iPod compatible

LOL too funny. I totally can see this coming to fruition in the very new future.

What has me baffled a little is that HP isn't building their own digital music player... they certainly have the brain trust for it, what with the iPaq PocketPC's and whatnot - those are great little devices...

Oh well - I'm really curious to see how this plays out!

vitrector
Jan 8, 2004, 01:34 PM
SJ put up during his keynote that pie graph regarding the 3 major market components, iPod, expensive flash players, and inexpensive flash players. I felt he was setting up for commenting on all three, but ignored the 3rd big piece of pie.

I can well imagine that the rumored 2 gig iPod, or something similar, will be HP branded. Most of HPs computers appeal to those who do not want to spend a lot of money (there are a lot of cheap computers from HP). So why not have HP go after the smaller pocket books, keep Apple the primium brand.

So all of the disappointment after the keynote may have been bc of omiossions in the keynote, and the price of the iPod mini isn't that big of a disaster afterall.


just my 3 cents worth....

LethalWolfe
Jan 8, 2004, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by tny
Either HP or Apple is out of its mind. Either 1. Apple has given up on the idea of using the iPod to entice consumers to its computing platform, and figures it's worthwhile just to go after their MP3 player dollars, or 2. Apple thinks it's still a sound strategy, and HP is handing them a major victory.


Your first statement makes no sense because iPods are already cross-platform. You haven't needed a Mac to "properly" use an iPod for a while now.


Lethal

restiffbard
Jan 8, 2004, 01:35 PM
I'm less excited about an HP iPod than I am pre-installing iTMS on HP PCs. open up the iTMS and at the top are ad banners highlighting new music and the like. That ad space could just as easily highlight new products from Apple. PC people would see it everyday. There comes a point where you just have to click it and get whisked away to store.apple.com. You've got this really impressive product from Apple, the iPod and iTunes. Now, maybe you might look into a powerbook for your kid before he heads off to school. Or an iMac for the little one. We'll just crank up the reality distortion field and channel it through iTMS.

And, I think that HP will make a point of mentioning that their HPiPod is built on or with or made by or what have you, Apple.

"the HP personal media player, built on the award winning strengths of the Apple iPod, now from your favorite PC maker" or whatever.

"buy an HP xjqr7 (or whatever they call them) today and get an iPaq PDA and Apple designed HP iPod for 10% off."

"iTunes inside."

ITR 81
Jan 8, 2004, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by jocknerd
Vendor lock-in always comes back to bite the vendor in the long run. It happened to Apple in the hardware market and it will happen in the digital music player market unless Apple finds a way to get their DRM into other music services.

More then likely 80% of the other music stores will fail and Apple will just buy them up when they sell for cheap.

ShadowHunter
Jan 8, 2004, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by restiffbard
"iTunes inside."

I like that one :)

Frobozz
Jan 8, 2004, 01:39 PM
Originally posted by CrackedButter
Why was Cowboys being mentioned?

It was an attempt at irony... because Phill Parcells coached the Cowboy's arch rivals, the New York Giants (NYC is my home town) to the superbowl. Now he plays for the "bad" guys... :-)

unc32
Jan 8, 2004, 01:42 PM
what is there to buy?

Lanbrown
Jan 8, 2004, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by hughdogg
Adios Dell DJ...

I'm sure there is some agreement to share revenues of the units, and sales from the ITMS. So it will be good for incremental reveune for both companies as the digital music market evolves..

Cheers,
Hughdogg

I don't think HP will get any money when something is bought on the iTMS. Apple is not exactly making money, except on the iPod. How Apple could set it up is that HP would pay Apple a small fee for every song that is downloaded (to pay for the backend) and HP is responsible for the front-end and bandwidth. Apple is not going to want to pay the bandwidth costs for HP, the servers and pay them as well. HP collects the money from the user so they can charge what they want.

matznentosh
Jan 8, 2004, 01:46 PM
I think the speculation about different or cheaper hPods are off base. It seems much more likely to me that Apple will allow HP to sell an iPod or mini iPod unmodified except for a logo change presumably. That means prices will NOT be lower.

Apple consistently overprices their products, hoping (sometimes correctly, sometimes not) that there is a consumer base willing to pay the price. Correct for the regular iPod, wrong for the cube. I'm afraid as time goes on the iPod and mini will look more and more expensive compared to the competition.

Earendil
Jan 8, 2004, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by vitrector
SJ put up during his keynote that pie graph regarding the 3 major market components, iPod, expensive flash players, and inexpensive flash players. I felt he was setting up for commenting on all three, but ignored the 3rd big piece of pie.
*SNIP*
So all of the disappointment after the keynote may have been bc of omiossions in the keynote, and the price of the iPod mini isn't that big of a disaster afterall.



I'm really not sure why people are dissapointed with the Keynote. Remember what Steve started out the keynote by saying? it was somthing to the effect of:

"20th anniversary of the Mac..blah blah blah... This will be a BIG year for Apple, with many new things coming...".

I right away I took this to mean that the keynote wasn't going to hold all that much, at least not compared to what would be coming before the end of 2004. Apple may have been setting it's self up to annouce all kinds of new stuff all spread throughout the year, that way everything get's it's spotlight, and nothing get's drowned out by something a little bit "cooler". and of course this "20th year" will stay big throughout every month. Maybe even ending with a Bank come Nov/Dec (duel 4ghz G5s anybody? ;)

I still think this the tip of the Iceberg...

Tyler
Earendil

reyesmac
Jan 8, 2004, 01:48 PM
I hope that HP is not allowed to make the HP ipod windows only. If it is 100% compatible with Macs then this will benefit Apple in a huge way. Eventually HP can sell HiPMacs or something, its all good.

Frobozz
Jan 8, 2004, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by ShadowHunter
Damnit, where's my investing money when I need it!! :D

I think I am high I am so excited with this news!

I bought some shares in the $16 range for my Roth IRA over a year and a half ago... makes me like Apple even more.

x86isslow
Jan 8, 2004, 01:51 PM
hp NEEDED this.. they have tiny profit margins on computers, and their profits are from printers and print accessories, which Dell just entered.
hmm.. apple and hp gang up on dell. sounds fun :)

i wonder what this means for the realnetworks' aac/helix?

i just realized: why hasnt ibm (apple buys millions of dollars worth of computer chips from them now) pledged to preload itunes+quicktime in its computers?

also, this hp move is a good way of getting other apple things into the market, like firewire 800 (do any PCs have this?) i say firewire because on all new the hp ads, they tout hp's utility as a multimedia hub.

mhouse
Jan 8, 2004, 01:52 PM
I think the speculation about different or cheaper hPods are off base. It seems much more likely to me that Apple will allow HP to sell an iPod or mini iPod unmodified except for a logo change presumably. That means prices will NOT be lower.

Apple consistently overprices their products, hoping (sometimes correctly, sometimes not) that there is a consumer base willing to pay the price. Correct for the regular iPod, wrong for the cube. I'm afraid as time goes on the iPod and mini will look more and more expensive compared to the competition.

I think that is the point of the entire deal, man. HP will be the company that caters to the low-end player market so Apple can sit back and rake in the in the high-end margins.

Whatever the HP product is, it won't be an "iPod" exactly. It will be some cheapie player that is compatible with iTMS. Possibly with Apple design help.

Lanbrown
Jan 8, 2004, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by mhouse
My reply was..."Well, they should let some huge tech firm do it for them. Just license AAC and let the other company sell the commodity players"

You can already license AAC, just go to it's creator, Dolby.

http://www.vialicensing.com/products/mpeg4aac/standard.html

Fairplay is not part of Dolby's offering though.

teme
Jan 8, 2004, 01:54 PM
Isn't this a little bit sad? People will buy this hPod, and they will think that HP made this great device... if there isn't Apple's logo in it, people don't know that the hPod is originally made by Apple. If there is HP's and Apple's logos side by side, then it's great. And how this will affect to iPod sales figures? Apple can't say that they have sold 4 million iPods, if part of them were HP-branded devices.

I think this would be even more great if hPods were different sizes than iPods... 512mb flash, 2gb hard drive & 10gb hard drive. You would have to buy the original iPod to get more storage and you couldn't compare the prices that easily.

Well, after all this is good news. Most of PC users have heard about Mac, but they don't have a clue about the Mac experience. My first experience with Apple was iPod 30gb. After that I became interested in Macs, and 6 months after buying iPod I bought my first Mac, iBook G4. Hopefully more people will get that kind of "wake-up calls"... using iTunes will give them some interest in Macs, maybe they go to the Apple's website to find out more... and maybe after that they are hooked and it's too late to turn back to PC world.

badhorsie777
Jan 8, 2004, 01:54 PM
I had a thought:

With apple's iTunes and quicktime preinstalled on such a HUGE number of new PC's (i've owned an HP and a Compaq, with decent results over the years), this is a chance to expose them to their software. Then when it's time to get a new computer, a software mp3 player that they now and LOVE is going to be available on a mac.

I know you're all going "duh", but as a recent switcher I know how hard it is to feel like "this new platform is so solid and stylish, but all of my programs are pc-only". I wasn't a photoshop guy, I was a digital audio guy - thinking about all my wasted DirectX audio plugins. This gets one major commonality going to make a possible switcher feel safer.

I don't know any of you, but I'm a VERY long-term reader (years now, I think) and get the impression that a majority can't just wrap your heads around being intimidated by switching, but I teach music in a public school and 99% of my co-workers are computer illiterate folk who have been painstakingly taught how to do things ONE way. If more apple software would become mainstream (and iTunes is SUCH a great start), then at "switch-time" folks could think "this mac can use all of my programs i need but with added stability and style. Sold." So kudos to apple, and bring some more stuff over. This is war, after all, and lofty separatist ideals just won't win that dang market share. Moves like this will.

Love the site, arn.

-badhorsie777

Lanbrown
Jan 8, 2004, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by ShadowHunter
You're not thinking ahead far enough.

Because when every other part of the PC falls short, and they hear from a cousin of a friend of a daughter etc etc that on the Apple it works better....their mind goes back to their hPod with an Apple logo on it and something clicks to maybe check out the Mac.

Or simply when it comes time to buy a new computer, they consider an Apple because they've been using an iTunes already and liked it, etc etc.

There's an infinite number of scenarios. Don't think in 3 month terms, think in 3 year terms.

Most people buy the cheapest PC they can and Apple is not in that space. Next, they will need to buy new apps and most importantly, most users are stupid and cannot adapt to change.

Sailfish
Jan 8, 2004, 01:55 PM
This is great news, the consensus among PC users (still) is that Apple is.... well you know.

Now with this news and iTunes preinstalled on all new HP computers, all those people are going to be visiting the Apple web site and support forums in droves.

So calling all those who are proficiant iTunes/iPod/Wintel users!

Lancetx
Jan 8, 2004, 01:56 PM
Sorry if this has already been mentioned. But it will definitely not be some cheap knock-off by any stretch. This is from Phil Schiller courtesy of CNET.

Apple will manufacture the player, which will not have the iPod name, but will have the same design and features as Apple's third-generation iPod players, Phil Schiller, senior vice president at Apple, said in an interview. Also, the HP music player will come in "HP Blue," he said.

"The way we look at it, HP will be reselling an iPod device," said Schiller, who noted that the device will display the Apple logo at start-up and will work with all of the accessories made for the white-hued Apple varieties.

DDMaKeeg
Jan 8, 2004, 01:58 PM
It will come in "HP Blue", but the startup screen will still have the Apple logo.

It will be compatible with all iPod accessories.

"competitively priced to other digital music players currently available. "

All this from CNet

mjtomlin
Jan 8, 2004, 02:00 PM
Wkaemena:
And finally every HP and Compac computer will come with Quicktime installed..... ( via itunes for WIN)

Yeah I'm surprised more people aren't excited over the implications of having QuickTime preinstalled on a Windows system.

Windows Media What? :)

DDMaKeeg
Jan 8, 2004, 02:00 PM
Darn it. Lancetx just beat me to the post

Mr.Hey
Jan 8, 2004, 02:01 PM
A bit more info

http://news.com.com/2100-7354-5137473.html?tag=nefd_hed



edit: damn you Lancetx :p

ShadowHunter
Jan 8, 2004, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by Lanbrown
Most people buy the cheapest PC they can and Apple is not in that space. Next, they will need to buy new apps and most importantly, most users are stupid and cannot adapt to change.

I don't know who you talk to, but almost everybody that asks me about a new PC, they ask what they should get for X budget (which is usually over $1000), not, "whats the cheapest POS I can get?"

Earendil
Jan 8, 2004, 02:02 PM
NOTE TO HP


Do not listen to the deranged people on this forum, in no way is Apple trying to take away your costumers by getting them to switch. They are all fools, and will be punished accordingly.

HP reps you may stop reading now.


To the rest of the Forum:
SHHHHH!!! BE QUIET!!! ;)

Lanbrown
Jan 8, 2004, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by x86isslow
i just realized: why hasnt ibm (apple buys millions of dollars worth of computer chips from them now) pledged to preload itunes+quicktime in its computers?

IBM concentrates more on the business sector then the consumer. The other companies can seriously undercut them on the low end and IBM knows this and conceded a longtime ago. The margins on the business sector are quite good compared to the consumer.

tloder
Jan 8, 2004, 02:02 PM
There may be more to this than meets the eye. HP also announced that they will be putting out a new Entertainment Hub that will play videos, mp3's , PVR functionality.


HP entertainment hub

Starting this fall, HP will introduce an entertainment hub designed to put consumers in control of all of their entertainment content. The entertainment hub will serve as the single, central storage repository, distribution and access point for all music, photo, video and movie collections in the home.

Additionally, consumers will be able to watch and pause live TV and record their favorite TV shows from any source, including cable, satellite or HDTV. The new device will be sleek and stylish and work great with existing devices in the home, but will offer an even better experience in combination with the other components of the HP Digital Entertainment System.



Remember the rumor of the ibox? Could this be the same animal? Maybe a reciprocation from HP to Apple?

Time will tell.

adamfilip
Jan 8, 2004, 02:03 PM
IPod will be Blue and not called the IPOD



From ZDNET.COM

Apple will manufacture the player, which will not have the iPod name, but will have the same design and features as Apple's third-generation iPod players, Phil Schiller, senior vice president at Apple, said in an interview. Also, the HP music player will come in "HP Blue," he said.

"The way we look at it, HP will be reselling an iPod device," said Schiller, who noted that the device will display the Apple logo at start-up and will work with all of the accessories made for the white-hued Apple varieties.

In addition, HP will start pre-installing Apple's iTunes on its consumer PCs and desktops. HP previously had said it planned to enter the digital music player and music store business, though sources familiar with the company's plans said partners would likely be involved.

The deal comes amid a broader announcement from HP of a number of consumer electronics products.

Schiller said HP brings a large sales and marketing effort centered around digital entertainment and has a large customer base. "HP has a lot of customers, and they are a great company, a big company," he said. "They'll promote this iPod-based device and the iTunes music store."

The deal with HP involves only the traditional iPod design and not the new mini models, Schiller said, though he added, that's "obviously something we can look at in the future."

Schiller would not say whether Apple may look to craft similar deals with other computer or electronics makers. While that part of the deal is not exclusive, Schiller said HP's promotion of the iTunes Music Store through its PCs is a "multiyear, exclusive" deal.

HP CEO Carly Fiorina said the company considered a number of alternatives before partnering with Apple. "We explored a range of alternatives to deliver a great digital music experience and concluded Apple's iPod music player and iTunes music service were the best by far," Fiorina said in a statement. "By partnering with Apple, we have the opportunity to add value by integrating the world's best digital music offering into HP's larger digital entertainment system strategy."

Apple CEO Steve Jobs said the move will ensure more consumers use iPods.

"Apple's goal is to get iPods and iTunes into the hands of every music lover around the world, and partnering with HP, an innovative consumer company, is going to help us do just that," Jobs said in a statement. "As the industry balkanizes by offering digital music wrapped in a multitude of incompatible proprietary technologies, consumers will be reassured in getting the same unparalleled digital music solutions from both HP and Apple, two leaders in the digital music era."

On its own, Apple has sold more than 2 million iPods, including 730,000 last quarter. The company also announced this week plans for the iPod Mini, a smaller player that will cost $249 and uses a 1-inch hard drive with 4GB of storage.

HP and Apple did not say how much the HP-branded iPod will cost or how it will differ from the Apple-branded models, but the companies said it will be "competitively priced to other digital music players currently available. "

jcshas
Jan 8, 2004, 02:04 PM
Hell has frozen over, again!

iwantanewmac
Jan 8, 2004, 02:06 PM
Originally posted by Plissken
This is huge! HP/Compaq is the largest computer corpoation in the country and they just turned to Apple for some product outsourcing. Talk about recognizing a popular market dominating product! this will be a very good entrenchment tool for the future of Apple and the iTMS/iPod product line.

There is (thankgod) more than 1 country on this globe....
But other than that its good.

Codemonkey
Jan 8, 2004, 02:09 PM
Maybe this is the beginning of Apple getting out of the computer manufacturing biz?

Earendil
Jan 8, 2004, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by Codemonkey
Maybe this is the beginning of Apple getting out of the computer manufacturing biz?

Don't. Even. Say. That.

Tiauguinho
Jan 8, 2004, 02:11 PM
Im spechless... This is as others have said awsome news. The little iTunes icon on the desktop will do so much for Apple! Im anxious to see how this partnership will grow! Great move for Apple!

ShadowHunter
Jan 8, 2004, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by Codemonkey
Maybe this is the beginning of Apple getting out of the computer manufacturing biz?

Put down the bong and step away. That's it...nice and easy.

eazyway
Jan 8, 2004, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by Lanbrown
Most people buy the cheapest PC they can and Apple is not in that space. Next, they will need to buy new apps and most importantly, most users are stupid and cannot adapt to change.

Not true. Most people look for a low priced computer and go to the shop that sells them and 99% are upgraded to more than they thought.

Apple doesn't use that selling policy. Maybe they should. Go to the dell store and try to buy what you want and the price really zooms up. When you ask them to choose for you . Watch the pricing. Only industry wants cheap throw aways.

Low end systems are often not too upgradeable. ie 20 Gb HD did not work to replace 1.7 GB drives and so on...

Typolad
Jan 8, 2004, 02:14 PM
ZDnet has more details. It'll be "HP Blue" and standard iPod size.

http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103_2-5137473.html?tag=zdfd.newsfeed

brywalker
Jan 8, 2004, 02:15 PM
It will probably be called the iPod still, to go along with their best selling PDA line, the iPaq.

It will be the same hardware, at the same price, with a little HP branding.

They will just have that much more retail saturation, ie: Staples, OfficeMax, etc, where HP already has a great retail presence - places that don't care about getting Apple authorzed.

srobert
Jan 8, 2004, 02:15 PM
Here is the hPod, in all it's familar and reassuring grey PC glory ^_^ :

EDIT: Anyone know what HP blue is so I can update my fake? ;-)

http://homepage.mac.com/srobert/.Pictures/hpod.jpg

hughdogg
Jan 8, 2004, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by adamfilip
IPod will be Blue and not called the IPOD

"The way we look at it, HP will be reselling an iPod device," said Schiller, who noted that the device will display the Apple logo at start-up and will work with all of the accessories made for the white-hued Apple varieties.

Schiller said HP's promotion of the iTunes Music Store through its PCs is a "multiyear, exclusive" deal.


Apple logo every time it starts up...NICE! So much for people not knowing it's made by Apple...

Also, multi-year exclusive on the ITMS..So no other annoucements like this with other manufacturors for a while...but who cares

Cheers,
Hughdogg

slowtreme
Jan 8, 2004, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by Frobozz
because Phill Parcells coached the Cowboy's arch rivals So why exactly do you call Bill - Phill ?

adamberti
Jan 8, 2004, 02:16 PM
Yes. HUGE indeed.


Looks like Apple realized they made a mistake many many years ago by keeping the Macintosh to itself. They see the same thing happening with the iPod if they don't take a different approach.

Maybe if Apple hadn't done this deal and opened up the market, another superior product would have fallen by the wayside and become a minority market.

As others have mentioned too, maybe his will make the Music Store come to Canada a little quicker. Now there will be more reason, as now there is not only 1.5 million computers that come with iTunes pre-installed, but more like 10 million. Time will tell.

mwilhite
Jan 8, 2004, 02:16 PM
Good idea....but HP had better do something about their little "Shwicon2k" program that's tied to their media card readers. It has screwed up iTunes for large numbers of people running HP and eMachine computers over on the iTunes threads at Apple Discussions. I've had to tell dozens of people to turn it off at startup to get iTunes to recognize a cd.:(

Codemonkey
Jan 8, 2004, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by ShadowHunter
Put down the bong and step away. That's it...nice and easy.

Heh. Hey, I love my Mac, don't get me wrong... I'm curious though... sooner or later if you develop enough cool products and software for (what traditionally is) the competition, then inevitably they have to look at their aging (now 20+ year) business model...

Basically, I don't see the hPod as a 'gateway' to Apple the way the iPod might be (which I'm not convinced it is, but that's the popular/official concensus), but a nifty alternative for the other 97%.

Making profitable peripherals to cater to 25% of the other 97% (I dunno what marketshare HP has in the Wintel market, I'm just guessing) is better than fighting the seemingly uphill battle they're currently facing with the Mac platform.

It certainly would be more profitable.

billyboy
Jan 8, 2004, 02:17 PM
HP had a $73 billion turnover last year. That sort of clout is immense. I dont know how many Windows iTunes have been dowmloaded, but the software was basically launched out into the internet with a big fanfare and is floating around being picked up as people buy iPods, read the associated press and sort of stumble into it. With this HP deal iTunes will be literally rammed down the throats of an audience of millions and those millions cannot turn a blind eye, or think "Apple, sod that."

Fair play, no pun intended, but Steve Jobs, how did he keep such a straight face when the mini iPod price wasnt applauded at the keynote speech, How did he contain himself when he was pointing at the 30% market segment knowing that he had a $70 billion dollar company backing his strategy for Apple to probably take that whole 30% market by hook or by crook.

Respect!

Ransath
Jan 8, 2004, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by Frobozz
At this point hell has frozen over, Phill Parcells is coaching the Cowboys, and I'm waiting for a swarm of locusts...

No, hell froze over yesterday when the Redskins announced Joe Gibbs was coming back!! :)

This is awesome for Apple. When it comes down to it, a company needs money to stay in business. And Apple's approach to the MP3 market is just that - MAKE MONEY!!! You have got to wonder how much profit Apple is making on each iPod - probably at least 75% on each unit. Meaning that the 40 gig iPod probably only cost Apple about $125 to make, yet they sell it for $500. Couple that with Pixar's outrageous profit (and I am sure Jobs uses some of that income in conjunction with Apple) and I could care LESS that Apple still only retains a 5% market share. It means that Apple is still solvent and will therefore continue to be THE #1 computing innovator.

Now, how long do you think it will be before HP starts offering an "alternative" operating system named Panther? heheh - ya never know!

brywalker
Jan 8, 2004, 02:22 PM
Here is the hPod, in all it's familar and reassuring grey PC glory ^_^

I don't quite understand that sentence. We have 4 PCs in this house and none of them are grey. We have 1 Blue, 2 Black, and 1 Green.

Must be a mac thing.....

On the flip side, another great thing for Apple is guess who is going to pick up the manufacturing cost for these things....HP.

Really helps them get their product out and not cost them a cent.

Good for them. If they make them more affordable I am all for getting one.

Pablo
Jan 8, 2004, 02:22 PM
My guess as to what happened:

Apple approached HP/Compaq asking about pre-loading iTunes on all of it's machines. The concession that HP/Compaq wanted was the iPod. Apple agreed, as while not all HP/Compaq customers will immediately have the HP iPod, all of them will have iTunes.

From there, many of them will buy the Apple rather than the HP iPod. It gets Apple's foot in the door and into the back of people's minds.

Seems like a good decision on Apple's aprt.

Ransath
Jan 8, 2004, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by brywalker
It will probably be called the iPod still, to go along with their best selling PDA line, the iPaq.


Just a quick aside - a few years ago I bought my first MP3 player, which I still have, from Compaq. It's name? IPaq.

I have always wondered how the hell Compaq just ripped the name and launched their PDA's under it.

MacFan25
Jan 8, 2004, 02:25 PM
I was so surprised whenever I read this! But I'm very happy for Apple, HP, and all HP consumers who are going to easily be able to experience iTunes.

I guess this doesn't include Compaq, even though Compaq merged with HP a while back?

kansast
Jan 8, 2004, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by Frobozz
At this point hell has frozen over, Phill Parcells is coaching the Cowboys, and I'm waiting for a swarm of locusts...

Now that's funny !
and damn if ol' Bill didn't almost get them there. Not a Dallas fan by any stretch of the imagination. but admire what Parcells has done.

And to keep on topic.. I too am wondering what these 'hpods' will look like. But it seems anything that gets the Apple name out their.. has to be good.

latergator116
Jan 8, 2004, 02:27 PM
Im really curious to see what it will look like.

Codemonkey
Jan 8, 2004, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by Pablo
From there, many of them will buy the Apple rather than the HP iPod. It gets Apple's foot in the door and into the back of people's minds.

Seems like a good decision on Apple's aprt.

I don't see how you came up with your conculsion... why would the HP owner ever look at an Apple product if the 'coolest thing they offer' is available right from HP in the first place?

srobert
Jan 8, 2004, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by brywalker
I don't quite understand that sentence. We have 4 PCs in this house and none of them are grey. We have 1 Blue, 2 Black, and 1 Green.

Must be a mac thing.....


Yes. This is an old mac joke.

Ransath
Jan 8, 2004, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by brywalker
I don't quite understand that sentence. We have 4 PCs in this house and none of them are grey. We have 1 Blue, 2 Black, and 1 Green.

Must be a mac thing.....


You are quite right - it is a Mac thing. Meaning, if Apple had not released the iMac in those oh so fruity colors, you PC folks would still be living in the bland, grey/beige computer case world. The only reason you have a Blue, Black, and Green PC is beause, as usual, Apple set a new standard and everyone else (PC companies) followed suit.

Supa_Fly
Jan 8, 2004, 02:30 PM
What on Earth is this??

Please I hope this is a false announcement.

FIrst off Apple has invested WAY too much in porting over iTunes for Windows. Second, PC owners are already buying, bought, or plan on purchasing a new iPod! Trust me I'm one of them!!!! Can you say mini boys & girls??!

Now if this is some HP/Compaq branded iPod then it IS a clone in any sense and might be cheaper even if bundled with a PC and could tank Apple's own iPod sales and image!! Also, How many times had a superior technology company licensed not only its technology but its name on another branded product?? Lotus suspension on those harrible, yes HARRIBLE,(Jamaican tone starr), GM car (some 5 years ago) that tanked. Also, the long standing partnership of Eagle Talon AWD with Mitsubishi Eclipse AWD. Eagle had much more sales of the AWD version, until AWD wasn't offered and then Eagles other market brands caused it to go titanic. Mitsu is barely hanging on the Eclipse name. The Ford Probe/GT with Mazda MX-6......well the Probe is no longer here but the 6 is!!! This last point is opposite of the point I'm trying to lay down, but if HP/Compaq's sales don't show a benefit, then they'll back out with much lower losses than Apple. Then Apple will have to have new marketing in order to help the iPod have brand-servival.

If there are problems with the models shipped with HP/Compaq (God I hope not the Compaq brand - as its a shadow of its former self), guess whom gets the blame??? APPLE.

I'd rather see G5's and Apples OS X on COmpaq or HP computers minus the iLife products and full UNIX underpinings.

27407
Jan 8, 2004, 02:32 PM
"The partnership, announced at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas calls for H-P to begin selling branded music players this summer that would, in effect, be iPods with the H-P name on the package."

"Schiller said the multi-year exclusive deal has Apple building the players with the H-P name and in colors that are more familiar to H-P's product line. Schiller said the deal involves the current line of iPods, but not the iPod mini, which could be added at a later date."

http://www.alwayson-network.com/comments.php?id=2333_0_7_0_C

kidA
Jan 8, 2004, 02:35 PM
rebranded means just that--rebranded. likely the exact same device, probably in a different color, with a different logo on it. HP actually has, IMO, far and away the best industrial design in the PC world. sony does really well with some devices, but HP is really quite good across the board. i think this is great for both sides. HP is partnering with the market leader in legal music downloads, and as a market learder itself in the PC industry, is positioning itself and Apple to be the runaway leader in digital music. the iPod is already a fabulous device, and HP has just saved itself from having to try to top it.
from Apple's point of view, this serves to strengthen the iTMS and the iPod. even if the stuff is rebranded as HP, people will still know where it originally came from.

as far as the hp branded iPod goes, i imagine that Apple won't let HP sell it for any less than Apple sells it for. this is nothing like the old mac clones, as a few have suggested. this is not an iPod clone, it actually is an iPod with a different name printed on it.

srobert
Jan 8, 2004, 02:35 PM
Quoting:

"Apple's shares rose $1.10, or 5 percent, to $23.69 and H-P climbed $1.19, or 5 percent, to $24.54 after the iPod deal was made public."

Nice ^_^

pkradd
Jan 8, 2004, 02:37 PM
Having an Apple logo on start-up of a PC vendors product is similar to having the "Intel Inside" logo. Shows PC owners that Apple is a legit company in the market place. And having iTunes on the HP desktop does the same thing. Both Apple and HP stock are up dramatically.

jettredmont
Jan 8, 2004, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by adamfilip
IPod will be Blue and not called the IPOD



From ZDNET.COM

Apple will manufacture the player, which will not have the iPod name, but will have the same design and features as Apple's third-generation iPod players, Phil Schiller, senior vice president at Apple, said in an interview. Also, the HP music player will come in "HP Blue," he said.


That was the sound of opportunity whizzing by ... :(

Ah, well.

A rebranded iPod is nothing to get excited over at all. No innovation, just a new brand name molded into the plastic. I don't see it as a potential huge seller at all; HP isn't a huge CE name, despite their aspirations ...

iTunes on all HPs ... well, it's a good move I suppose, but it's just as easy to de-emphasize the "icon on the desktop" as it is to put it there in the first place. I don't know how many of you have bought a PC in the past ten years, but every single one of them is pre-loaded with desktop icons to half a dozen different ISPs and crap services ... most PC buyers just ignore those icons altogether, and when Windows suggests that they be deleted to "clean the desktop", they just click "Okay" and are done with them ...

Ah well ... it sounded like it might be good news, until that CNet article ... :(

Trekkie
Jan 8, 2004, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by Stoffel
Sounds like a good idea. I wonder how it will look like. Probably not so well designed.....


Apparently you're not familiar with what 'rebranding' means to HP.

You buy the iPod. get a sticker that says 'HP' and put it where the Apple was.

Voila, new product.

jocknerd
Jan 8, 2004, 02:39 PM
Here's the quote:

"There is no job that is America's God-given right anymore," Carly Fiorina, chief executive for Hewlett-Packard Co., said Wednesday. "We have to compete for jobs."

The full article is here: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040107/ap_on_bi_ge/technology_jobs_5

This is from the mouth of someone who earned $10,934,357 in 2002 according to this site: http://www.aflcio.org/corporateamerica/paywatch/ceou/database.cfm?tkr=HPQ&pg=1

How many jobs could be saved if she earns half that amount?

In fact, why not outsource the executive jobs? Executives earn far less overseas than they do here. This would help the corporations bottom line even more.

pkradd
Jan 8, 2004, 02:41 PM
Alas, there's always room for a negative point of view. Even if it is poorly thought out and totally wrong! You know, some people look at a glass of water and say it's half empty. Others say it's half full. Some people look up to the sky and see it as partly cloudy. Others look up and say, partly sunny. Some.......:D

Awimoway
Jan 8, 2004, 02:41 PM
Originally posted by Earendil
NOTE TO HP


Do not listen to the deranged people on this forum, in no way is Apple trying to take away your costumers by getting them to switch. They are all fools, and will be punished accordingly.

Because, you know, Apple is really lusting over that lucrative costuming market. They'll see how fun it is to costume an iPod in HP blue and want to be a part of the action. :D

ant_s
Jan 8, 2004, 02:43 PM
First off Apple has invested WAY too much in porting over iTunes for Windows.


I'm not sure if that's necessarily true. iTunes is probably programmed in C++, which is pretty portable. Sure, UI changes and loads of other bits to make it work perfectly in Windows will have been done, and is indeed a very involved task, but the core elements of it (processes, codecs etc) are common to both.


This is great news. It'd be cool if HP set compatible media to open with iTunes by default as opposed to Windows Media Player.


And like some other people have said - deals like this could open the opportunity of HP-branded Macs. Now, whilst the majority of members of this forum wouldn't want that, it would encourage many Windows users, especially as they would probably include VPC as a marketing stunt.


All sounds great to me.


Just my 2c :D

montecristo
Jan 8, 2004, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by the_mole1314
I have one big problem with this: the re-branded iPod. I mean, what would it be? Would it just be the iPod, Apple logo and all, or a whole new shell? I'm worried about the iPod.

I too am worried about the cannibalization of the iPod share. I think though, that Apple is just allowing the HP player to work on iTunes and iTMS. I don't actually think they will let HP cop their design.

Recall that iPod and iTunes/iTMS were a pair that didn't share. iPod doesn't work with other jukeboxes (napster etc) or formats like WAF, and iTunes only worked with iPod. Now, iTunes will work with iPod and HP-od -- it's just the software and not the design. I wonder even if the interface will be a little different.

Apple will hold on tightly to its brand. They will say, if you want a sleek iPod, you will have to pay the higher price. But if you just want to use iTunes/iTMS, here's another option for you -- cheaper, and not as pretty, but it works.

The long term strategy of Apple trying to convert people to iPods and mac is still intact. You give people free iTunes, preinstalled. They go out and buy an HP-od. (because they are not going to install napster and buy napster player since they have iTMS already). Not as cool as iPod, so they upgrade to iPod later (or get an iPod mini in addition) and then, finally, they see the light, break down and spring for the mac.

Lanbrown
Jan 8, 2004, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by ShadowHunter
I don't know who you talk to, but almost everybody that asks me about a new PC, they ask what they should get for X budget (which is usually over $1000), not, "whats the cheapest POS I can get?"

Look at where most people buy a PeeCee from? Gateway sold a lot of low-end machines, which had practically no profit to them as, that market was so fierce. Dell is in the low-end market as well.

elgruga
Jan 8, 2004, 02:51 PM
This will definitely increase market share and also gain respect and cash for Apple.

Next on the list is iTunes for Canada and Europe.

I notice a lot less Apple-bashing lately by the PC crowd.
Hard to do when you're listening to iTunes, I guess.

What a good start to the new year - now when is GARAGEBAND going to ship?!

simply258
Jan 8, 2004, 02:51 PM
Originally posted by the_mole1314
I have one big problem with this: the re-branded iPod. I mean, what would it be? Would it just be the iPod, Apple logo and all, or a whole new shell? I'm worried about the iPod.
it wouldnt be "re-branded" if it had the Apple logo on it, since the Apple logo is a brand

fatbarstard
Jan 8, 2004, 02:51 PM
If you want to point to the ONE mistake that Apple made that cast it in the role of 'small but perfectly formed' it was the decision to keep software and hardware to itself in the 1980s....

With the iPod/iTunes combination there obviously will be no repeat of that mistake (hurrah!!)

Its a good reward for all the hard work Apple have put in to getting the iTunes licencing system et all set up.

All Apple's competitors in this space will now be saying 'Oh Crap....'. ONly got one thing to say to them...:p :p :p :p :p :D

jettredmont
Jan 8, 2004, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by pkradd
A "re-branded" iPod means the same innards.

The original press release did NOT say "re-branded".

Phil has since made it clear that this is what was meant, but the original press release said "based on", which includes everything from simple rebranding to borrowing one minor stylistic suggestion of the device for the new one ...

soosy
Jan 8, 2004, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by brywalker
I don't quite understand that sentence. We have 4 PCs in this house and none of them are grey. We have 1 Blue, 2 Black, and 1 Green.

Must be a mac thing.....

Mac menus/windows have traditionally been white (not counting the grayer OS 8/9 Platinum look) while Windows are ugly grey.

Yes I know you can change the theme/color on Windows, but when I have to use a Windows box at work I wince at the ugly default gray. Somehow this really is a defining issue between the two systems. Windows is very ugly to me. :)

johnnyjibbs
Jan 8, 2004, 02:55 PM
It sounds like the new HP 'iPod' will be a different coloured iPod with the HP badge on it. Same price, same controls. THE SAME THING.

It will be both compatible with PCs and Macs. Why would Apple not want it to work with Macs? Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. Besides, the computer probably won't be able to recognise the difference between them and a normal iPod.

I think this is very good news. It provides another route for people to pick up "iPods" and get into the whole iTunes thing. It will raise awareness of the Apple brand for HP customers. It will ensure that the iPod doesn't receive an early grave. And it will add weight to AAC against WMA.

The only thing we don't know, is how they have agreed to share the profits. I presume they will both get a piece of both pies - the store and the hPods. BTW, I reckon that the iTMS isn't quite as "zero profit" as everyone thinks. Not enough to base a business on, sure, but certainly nothing that makes a loss or just scrapes through. Apple still gets about 15% per song, and the actual store is pretty low maintenance with low running costs compared to a brick & mortar store. 30 million songs is a lot...

wordmunger
Jan 8, 2004, 02:58 PM
Apple will manufacture it. It will have the HP logo on it. It will be blue. It will otherwise be identical to the Apple iPod. Read the articles, people:

cnet (http://news.com.com/2100-7354-5137473.html?tag=nefd_hed)

zdnet (http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103_2-5137473.html?tag=zdfd.newsfeed)

TMay
Jan 8, 2004, 02:59 PM
There's too many posts to go through, so I didn't see any comments about Rendevous, and Pixlet, et al, but all of these have potential for cross platform migration.

Anyway, I see this as mutually beneficial to both parties, especially as Jobs long ago conceded the PC market to MS, (probably) knowing quite well that it was in for a sea change anyway. He, like Carly (and everyone else for that matter), has to figure out how to get there, and Apple so far, seems to have outmanuevered the competition. This is especially bad news for Sony, which is, really having a tough time maintaining its consumer product status.

I have to buy a PC pretty soon for engineering stuff. I guess it will be an HP or Compaq for me.

Codemonkey
Jan 8, 2004, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by TMay
I have to buy a PC pretty soon for engineering stuff. I guess it will be an HP or Compaq for me.

I was thinking the same thing - I have to buy a PeeCee for work in around the summer time, and will consider an HP.

Boy they're smart.

jettredmont
Jan 8, 2004, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by x86isslow
i just realized: why hasnt ibm (apple buys millions of dollars worth of computer chips from them now) pledged to preload itunes+quicktime in its computers?


IBM sells computers?

:)

tny
Jan 8, 2004, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by Prom1
What on Earth is this??

I'd rather see G5's and Apples OS X on COmpaq or HP computers minus the iLife products and full UNIX underpinings.

Umm, you can't have OS X without the UNIX underpinnings. OS X wouldn't work without the UNIX underpinnings.

Supa_Fly
Jan 8, 2004, 03:10 PM
OK let me clarify a lil more about my half empty glass of water.

I'm not complaining of this effort of Apple's, water is vital to us all, and as well the competition for it.

Now someone mentioned that Apple's and HP's stocks are skyrocketing of this announcement.

It seems that most investors and analysts (anal ist!) are anal towards anything Apple. Last quarters announcement of R&D spending as well as profits of Apple's wasn't enough for their stock to go up; when it should've skyrocketed due to the fact of upgraded PowerBooks and HUGE acceptance of the PowerMac. Yet anything PC based helps their stock go up.

Guess because of independent research PROVES Apple's success in legal music download space, as well as the #1 portable music player -bar none STILL wasn't enough, yet now the partnership with a large competing PC company helps.

Water is water and I'm sure in the first 2 qtrs this will help Apple's coffers (maybe this extra money need, sorry WANT is the precise word, is for huge research into bringing the Updated PowerBook by years end), however I see this as dirty water, tanting the iPod's Apple brand name.

What will happen if a price war ensues....will Apple match? The may have to and this will lower their OWN profits for the model. Now on that note, I do hope price equality SET by Apple doesn't allow HP to cause this.

iChan
Jan 8, 2004, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by hughdogg
Adios Dell DJ...

Give Carly some credit, she smart enough to know when somebody else is doing it sooo much better than you can, your smart to sub it out... And give SJ some credit for making this happen too...


I don't agree with this statement, I think Michael Dell is quite an intelligent guy with a great busines mind... it's not that he doesn't know that the iTMS is not doing well, OF COURSE HE DOES...

i just think that Dell want to go their way but always end up with egg of their face in comparison to Apple...

Dell will realise soon enough, that Dell DJ is going nowhere and they'll be begging to take back the iPod... anywhere the money is to be found...

Supa_Fly
Jan 8, 2004, 03:17 PM
Its seems when asked directly on CNN Headline news just now, if this is HP's biggest puch of Media in the consumer HOME market (this Apple, HP announcement); ; She downplayed this as a major investment.

bummer.

grrr223
Jan 8, 2004, 03:18 PM
Will this new hPod be considered an iPod when they deternine what the best selling mp3 players are? Let me illustrate:

Instead of selling 1,000,000 iPods next year, what happens if Apple sells 600,000 iPods and 400,000 hPods??? It's still 1,000,000 _Pods, BUT what if that stupid rio thing sells 750,000 units? Do the iPod get 2nd and 3rd or do they combine to stay at 1st?

I'd know they're #1, and you'd know they're #1, but those stupid rankings mean a lot to people.

Either way, you have to give HP credit. Just this week 2 other music stores were announced (Real and Sony) with 2 more music formats (well, 1, sorry), and 2 more DRM methods. With the iTunes music store already commanding 70% of the market. As each of these new stores come out, they are just fragmenting that remaining 30% that much more.

Carly was smart by saying "why would we spend the time and $ to come out with yet another stupid store, when we can just put our name on something that everyone already knows and loves."

VicMacs
Jan 8, 2004, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by Prom1
Its seems when asked directly on CNN Headline news just now, if this is HP's biggest puch of Media in the consumer HOME market (this Apple, HP announcement); ; She downplayed this as a major investment.

bummer.

just missed it.. what did she say?

iChan
Jan 8, 2004, 03:21 PM
Originally posted by natey
Why would anyone in the right mind switch when they can use iTunes conveniently on the PC?

for the sexy hardware baby

matznentosh
Jan 8, 2004, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by mhouse
I think that is the point of the entire deal, man. HP will be the company that caters to the low-end player market so Apple can sit back and rake in the in the high-end margins.

Whatever the HP product is, it won't be an "iPod" exactly. It will be some cheapie player that is compatible with iTMS. Possibly with Apple design help.

I think the CNET article backs up my position that Apple would not allow a cheesy knockoff version of the iPod to be produced. It would hurt sales of real iPods and ruin the reputation of the beast as the "best". Of course, that means the price remains high no matter who sells it.

greenstork
Jan 8, 2004, 03:24 PM
This partnership is not about Apple selling computers or promoting Apple beyond the iTMS.

HP will surely have their name all over this player with scarcely a mention of Apple, it is after all, their product.

Think of a restaurant that sells it's own house wine or beer. Most of these beverages are repackaged by other manufacturers. Only in small small print on the back label does it even mention the orginal manufacturer, if at all.

This will probably be the case for this product. HP is buying them after all, they can dress them up however they see fit, which will probably include heavy branding of their own.

That said, iTunes on every HP computer, Quicktime on every HP computer and a flurry of new iTMS users is great news. To say nothing of the enormous new revenue stream. Great all around but not a trojan horse as others on this thread have suggested.

ShadowHunter
Jan 8, 2004, 03:27 PM
Originally posted by Lanbrown
Look at where most people buy a PeeCee from? Gateway sold a lot of low-end machines, which had practically no profit to them as, that market was so fierce. Dell is in the low-end market as well.

Most of the PCs I've seen people buy are Dell, and they are not the lowest configuration. The last time I saw someone buy a Gateway desktop brand new was a 486 :eek:

question fear
Jan 8, 2004, 03:32 PM
I guess this doesn't include Compaq, even though Compaq merged with HP a while back?


compaq is part of hp now, anything branded compaq is either for brand recognition or a holdover from before the merger.

-carly

dwsolberg
Jan 8, 2004, 03:32 PM
I think the benefit to Apple is illusion of choice. People don't like to think they only have one option. That's why many companies manufacture more than one brand of the same product. It's why Visa and Mastercard both exist even though they're basically the same thing owned by the same companies. You get a "choice" so you don't need to turn to American Express or Discover.

So that's Apple's first advantage: People, especially PC people, have a "choice" of two very nice MP3 players. HP gets some cachet from the deal, plus profit.

The second advantage is instant new computer saturation from 5% to 30% for Apple's iTunes. This establishes a very powerful presence and lends legitimacy to iTunes and to "both" types of pod.

Apple is playing to win the music business, but its market position has been at best 5% of the market. That's changing fast. Superior product + social proof + "choice" = WOW.

Steven1621
Jan 8, 2004, 03:33 PM
i don't know about this one. as we know from microsoft, just because you are the biggest doesn't mean you are the best. i really hope this doesn't hurt the overall allure of the ipod. it is a well designed device, but the honest truth is that the real reason it is so popular with my friends is that is the THE player to have, simply the coolest. if this HP deal puts a million more clones out that, i would have to think that this could hurt the "coolness" factor the ipod has.

mrsebastian
Jan 8, 2004, 03:35 PM
that makes a lot of sense for apple! considering there will continue to be new players to the field, this is a great way for apple to keep making money on mp3 players even when it's not their logo on it - either way apple wins.

feature
Jan 8, 2004, 03:37 PM
the real reason it is so popular with my friends is that is the THE player to have, simply the coolest. if this HP deal puts a million more clones out that, i would have to think that this could hurt the "coolness" factor the ipod has.

This is why i'm guessing the new from factor - the mini pod - won't be available for as the HP. It is the new "coolness".

I think this is more about ACC and Quicktime than the ipod.

spankalee
Jan 8, 2004, 03:40 PM
Ok, hPod seems to be the obvious nickname, but I don't think it rolls off the tounge very well...

How about HiPod?

(Or, if you like "HighPod" since I think this idea must have been conceived one night when Carly and Steve were hitting the bong)

spankalee
Jan 8, 2004, 03:44 PM
It seems like the HiPod will truly just be a rebranded iPod, so I'm wondering if the differentiation will be in the sizes.

Maybe HP won't get to offer a 40Gb, or their low-end will be the 10Gb instead of the 15Gb?

Diatribe
Jan 8, 2004, 03:53 PM
Either in size or Apple is gonna bring out a 4th generation in a bit that HP won't get. I don't think they are gonna get the entire IPod line.
Either way this is huge. I don't think Apple is making that much money off of IPods anyway, they smell a bigger market in the ITMS being spread more. They said when they started that they would need at least a 100 million Songs to be sold in order for it to be profitable. Now that number doesn't seem that far away.
Now if they get the ITMS to every place else in the world and bring out some below 200$ IPods, Apple is going to be the Microsoft of Online Music and Mp3s. If they aren't already.

<edit: typos>

jettredmont
Jan 8, 2004, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by spankalee
Ok, hPod seems to be the obvious nickname, but I don't think it rolls off the tounge very well...

How about HiPod?

(Or, if you like "HighPod" since I think this idea must have been conceived one night when Carly and Steve were hitting the bong)

Hmmm ... slightly clumsy, one step away from being elegant ... yup, that's an HP product!

Besides, calling it "HPod" is probably giving it too much credit. Who wants to bet the real name will be "DMP-HPB-507"?

the_dalex
Jan 8, 2004, 03:58 PM
This is wonderful news! This is going to help both Apple and HP tremendously. As long as Apple protects their profit margins they should do very well, but we obviously don't know the really important details of the deal.

It will also be a benefit to the customer, who often buys junk and then gets frustrated by it. I was on a plane flight home from North Carolina over the holidays, and the woman next to me asked me if she could look at my iPod, so I let her hold it. She was amazed, and called it a work of art, and then said she had ordered one for her boyfriend's PC after looking at them online. I started to gush about how easy it was to use iTunes, and to use that over MusicMatch, and so on... and then she mentioned that she hoped Dell would be able to ship it out quickly, since he was really looking forward to trying it out.

Let's just say I shut up pretty quickly. You know, if you have nothing nice to say...

She also thought my 12" Powerbook was made by IBM. Oh well, that's your average consumer!

NavyIntel007
Jan 8, 2004, 03:59 PM
No one has mentioned this but this puts Apple in a pretty good position for companies like ReplayTV and Tivo to license quicktime to stream AAC tracks. Also chances that car stereo manufacturers will allow for AAC CDs to work without an ipod. Eventually, anyone who wants to buy an ipod will have bought it already. Some people do not want to leave their CDs behind and will use walkmans and car stereos for music.

In the long run, Licensing will make money because other corperations will see the results of having HP and AOL users buying AAC tracks.

With a potential stronghold on the online music sales market, Apple could be in a position to renegotiate terms with the record labels to make more money off songs sold. The iTMS may then become the cash cow no one thought it would be.

Lancetx
Jan 8, 2004, 04:00 PM
Originally posted by greenstork
HP will surely have their name all over this player with scarcely a mention of Apple, it is after all, their product.

Not in this case they won't. This is straight from Phil Schiller... "The way we look at it, HP will be reselling an iPod device," said Schiller, who noted that the device will display the Apple logo at start-up and will work with all of the accessories made for the white-hued Apple varieties.

So basically it will be a blue iPod with an HP logo on the back, otherwise it will be identical to it's Apple twin.

iChan
Jan 8, 2004, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by restiffbard
I'm less excited about an HP iPod than I am pre-installing iTMS on HP PCs. open up the iTMS and at the top are ad banners highlighting new music and the like. That ad space could just as easily highlight new products from Apple. PC people would see it everyday. There comes a point where you just have to click it and get whisked away to store.apple.com. You've got this really impressive product from Apple, the iPod and iTunes. Now, maybe you might look into a powerbook for your kid before he heads off to school. Or an iMac for the little one. We'll just crank up the reality distortion field and channel it through iTMS.

And, I think that HP will make a point of mentioning that their HPiPod is built on or with or made by or what have you, Apple.

"the HP personal media player, built on the award winning strengths of the Apple iPod, now from your favorite PC maker" or whatever.

"buy an HP xjqr7 (or whatever they call them) today and get an iPaq PDA and Apple designed HP iPod for 10% off."

"iTunes inside."

there is nothing unique about the ipod. especially nothing "inside" anyway... it is built of off the shelf parts...

even the software isn't owned by Apple... i wonder how the software licensing will be transferred over to HP.

desdomg
Jan 8, 2004, 04:02 PM
Smart move Apple, congrats.

I must say, this is the first Apple related thread I have read all day that hasn't mentioned the iPod mini pricing - OOPS, I just spoilt it. LOL.

jayb2000
Jan 8, 2004, 04:12 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by srobert
[B]Here is the hPod, in all it's familar and reassuring grey PC glory ^_^ :

EDIT: Anyone know what HP blue is so I can update my fake? ;-)

I just PMed you the Hex numbers for HP blues.

To everyone else, as far as this news, the biggest part is the iTunes/Quicktime on the desktop.
That puts 30million+ users with a link to Apple on their desktop.
That is huge for mindshare and potential growth.

danbirchall
Jan 8, 2004, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by the_mole1314
What's next? The new iHP, now running PPC G5 technology and OSX?

Well... given that HPaq has buried its PA-RISC and Alpha processor families (a fairly half-decent 64-bit chipset and a seriously kick-ass 64-bit chipset) in favor of the Itanium (a seriously lame 64-bit chipset that's been plugging along for years and still lacks any meaningful market share)... I think they could really benefit from a better CPU, don't you? :)

hughdogg
Jan 8, 2004, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by iChan

Dell will realise soon enough, that Dell DJ is going nowhere and they'll be begging to take back the iPod... anywhere the money is to be found...

Agree completely with that...but Michael Dell's only real claim to fame is that he made PC's a commodity, he and his team are great at supply chain stuff, but not new products, hence my Adios Dell DJ comment. (Said so defiantly as I sit here at work typing on my Dell PC...sigh)


P.S. iChan - my Mom's a Dubliner, and I've got loads of family over there...shoot me a PM some time - HughDogg

MCCFR
Jan 8, 2004, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by Diatribe
Either in size or Apple is gonna bring out a 4th generation in a bit that HP won't get. I don't think they are gonna get the entire IPod line.
Either way this is huge. I don't think Apple is making that much money off of IPods anyway, they smell a bigger market in the ITMS being spread more. They said when they started that they would need at least a 100 million Songs to be sold in order for it to be profitable. Now that number doesn't seem that far away.
Now if they get the ITMS to every place else in the world and bring out some below 200$ IPods, Apple is going to be the Microsoft of Online Music and Mp3s. If they aren't already.

<edit: typos>

Actually, they do make a relatively obscene margin on iPods.

I seem to remember reading it's over 20%

povvy
Jan 8, 2004, 04:26 PM
This should go on the back of HP's Pod. ;-)

http://homepage.mac.com/povvy/applehp.jpg

Patrick.

engelb15
Jan 8, 2004, 04:33 PM
I did not know there was such thing as "HP Blue". Maybe Big Blue should sue. (what a rhyme...)

BTW...I wonder why IBM doesn't get a version of the iPod? Anyone see the IBM branded Palm Pilots? They were Palm V's but black. Very sweet, and you could get a bay for the Thinkpad that slid out and was a cradle. (very handy before Bluetooth)

balconycollapse
Jan 8, 2004, 04:39 PM
I was watching FCNN or whatever the financial news channel is a few weeks ago and they had Carly Fiorina on discussing all the usual numbers and so forth. I was very impressed with what should had to say and basically defended the analysts claiming dell was beating them. She knows what she is doing! The lame thing was she was constantly being asked questions to the effect of "your a woman, do you know what your doing" and so forth. I would have rather heard more of her great ideas. I think because of the way the talking heads in business operate and the fact that she is a woman in power scares alot of people. My belief is that she is one of the most powerful people in the computer world and just made a new buddy in steve jobs (certainly one of the most powerful as well). It was clear in her interview that she has a killer instinct and plans on putting the hurt on dell. I think apple is also a bit tired of dell borrowing ideas and claiming innovation. Definately two of the most recognizable companies in the world were brought together to defeat a common enemy. I have heard less then stellar things about the quality of HP computers, and certainly think that compaq is crap. But you can be certain that if i were to recommend a computer to a family member who despite my persuasion wouldn't buy a mac i would steer them to HP. I also find interesting the vast amount of money HP spends on R and D. Likewise they brag regularly about HP computers being responsible for Shrek. Could a possible marraige of Pixar to some HP technologies come in the future as well.

One last thing...

If the numbers are right thats 40 million HP computers. Adding in the 25 million or so AOL users, and all computers that had AOL preinstalled. Be chunk of iTunes bait.

------
too crazy for boys town, too much of a boy for crazy town

JediL
Jan 8, 2004, 04:47 PM
Now I finally feel like the keynote is complete...albeit 2 days later.

But there's one more thing....iTunes is gonna be preinstalled on 5%+18.3% of all new computers sold....

I've got that post-keynote euphoric feeling...

brywalker
Jan 8, 2004, 05:02 PM
OK. I have a confession.

I hate iTunes.

Now before you all flip out, hear me out.

1) The interface is somewhat clunky.

2) I don't like the fact that you can't arrange the music into any preference you want, in my case, ARTIST >YEAR > ALBUM > TRACK NUMBER > SONG TITLE

3) There is no windowshade or small player mode. It is far too large to make it manageable while using other applications. If there was a small player mode you could just drop it into the corner while you surf, photoshop, etc.

4) I will NEVER purchase anything from the iTms. I am very much against DRM music, I should be able to do whatever I want with it when I purchase it.

If I am wrong about any of these things, please feel free to convert me. I am glad that they are doing this, but there are others that feel the same way and I am not sure that preloading it on every PC will really generate as much revenue as they think it is. Some will simply uninstall it or just use something that is a little more comprehensive like Winamp5.

Codemonkey
Jan 8, 2004, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by brywalker
3) There is no windowshade or small player mode. It is far too large to make it manageable while using other applications. If there was a small player mode you could just drop it into the corner while you surf, photoshop, etc.

This one's weird - I was about to go off on you: the middle button on the top right USED to turn it into a small player on Windows - now it just minimizes/maximizes.... where'd this feature go?!!?

eazyway
Jan 8, 2004, 05:55 PM
Originally posted by brywalker
OK. I have a confession.

I hate iTunes.

Now before you all flip out, hear me out.

1) The interface is somewhat clunky.

2) I don't like the fact that you can't arrange the music into any preference you want, in my case, ARTIST >YEAR > ALBUM > TRACK NUMBER > SONG TITLE

3) There is no windowshade or small player mode. It is far too large to make it manageable while using other applications. If there was a small player mode you could just drop it into the corner while you surf, photoshop, etc.

4) I will NEVER purchase anything from the iTms. I am very much against DRM music, I should be able to do whatever I want with it when I purchase it.

If I am wrong about any of these things, please feel free to convert me. I am glad that they are doing this, but there are others that feel the same way and I am not sure that preloading it on every PC will really generate as much revenue as they think it is. Some will simply uninstall it or just use something that is a little more comprehensive like Winamp5.


winAmp5 ....yech
it will increase Apple revs significantly

NavyIntel007
Jan 8, 2004, 05:57 PM
Originally posted by brywalker
OK. I have a confession.

I hate iTunes.

Now before you all flip out, hear me out.

1) The interface is somewhat clunky.

2) I don't like the fact that you can't arrange the music into any preference you want, in my case, ARTIST >YEAR > ALBUM > TRACK NUMBER > SONG TITLE

3) There is no windowshade or small player mode. It is far too large to make it manageable while using other applications. If there was a small player mode you could just drop it into the corner while you surf, photoshop, etc.

4) I will NEVER purchase anything from the iTms. I am very much against DRM music, I should be able to do whatever I want with it when I purchase it.

If I am wrong about any of these things, please feel free to convert me. I am glad that they are doing this, but there are others that feel the same way and I am not sure that preloading it on every PC will really generate as much revenue as they think it is. Some will simply uninstall it or just use something that is a little more comprehensive like Winamp5.

1. Somewhat agreed but show me another media player that's better. I'll wait for your answer.

2. Click on the heading above the list of songs. For example, Click song name and it will order the songs alphabetically. All columns are orderable.

3. I'm not sure for windows, but for mac, the green button minimizes the window to the back, play, and forward buttons, a volume slider and the display. You can go further and get rid of the display so you just have the buttons.

4. You're out of luck. All online music stores have DRMed (most more strict than Apple) WMA (a closed proprietary format controlled by microsoft). Most new CDs have copy protections on them. You're screwed either way, if you think you're not, you're kidding yourself.


As for the store not making more money... 71% is pretty good. Most people don't know winamp exists and from what I hear Winamp is not what it used to be. If you can't seem to figure it out and millions of ditzy blonds blonds and pot heads can then perhaps the PEBKAC :D

tychay
Jan 8, 2004, 06:05 PM
Originally posted by pjkelnhofer
I think this is huge for the future of iTMS. But, maybe the "based on Apple's iPod" simply means it will have the capability of playing AAC's with the iTunes DRM. Nothing in the Press Release leads me to believe Apple is designing or manufacturing the player.

No, it could also include (in increasing order of likelihood).
Apple's supply chain
Apple's design chain
Apple's patent on the iPod dial
Apple's patent on iTunes synchronization.


Personally, if it is rebranding I think that #4 and AAC/Fairplay support are likely, especially in an entry level solid state player put out by HP.

ShadowHunter
Jan 8, 2004, 06:23 PM
Originally posted by Codemonkey
This one's weird - I was about to go off on you: the middle button on the top right USED to turn it into a small player on Windows - now it just minimizes/maximizes.... where'd this feature go?!!?

Hey, you're right. I liked it at first, then I stopped using it. :(

rdowns
Jan 8, 2004, 06:50 PM
Originally posted by arn
this is huge.

arn

Yes it is.

Look who Apple has gotten into bed with lately:

* AOL with iTMS
* Pepsi promotion
* McDonalds (still a rumor but never denied by either party)
* HP-Compaq
* Return of Macs to Best Buy (how is this going BTW?)
* iPods in some of the biggest retailers; i.e. Target.

Never has Apple been in front of so many consumers. Let's just hope Jobs is wearing a condom lest we catch any HP-Compaq PC disease.:D


edit:typo

Trekkie
Jan 8, 2004, 07:02 PM
Originally posted by jettredmont
IBM sells computers?

:)

yeah, but not to consumers.

NJANJA
Jan 8, 2004, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by tychay
No, it could also include (in increasing order of likelihood).
Apple's supply chain
Apple's design chain
Apple's patent on the iPod dial
Apple's patent on iTunes synchronization.


Personally, if it is rebranding I think that #4 and AAC/Fairplay support are likely, especially in an entry level solid state player put out by HP.

Phil Schiller has told the media that it'll be a 3G iPod re-branded as an HP device. Apparently, it will be functionally the same, including the display of an Apple logo on start-up (I forget where I read that).

My guess is that it will be introduced at roughly the same time as 4G iPods from Apple, allowing HP's to drop in price (relative to existing 3G iPod prices), and the new Apple ones will have new features and increase capacity to stay at roughly the same price points (and margins)

brywalker
Jan 8, 2004, 07:04 PM
yeah, but not to consumers.

Um, that isn't very true at all.

Buy me. (http://www-132.ibm.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?categoryId=2049132&catalogId=-840&langId=-1&storeId=1)

rdowns
Jan 8, 2004, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by Frobozz
It was an attempt at irony... because Phill Parcells coached the Cowboy's arch rivals, the New York Giants (NYC is my home town) to the superbowl. Now he plays for the "bad" guys... :-)

Kind of ironic that you got his name wrong then. It's Bill.:D

Trekkie
Jan 8, 2004, 07:16 PM
Originally posted by brywalker
OK. I have a confession.

I hate iTunes.

Now before you all flip out, hear me out.

3) There is no windowshade or small player mode. It is far too large to make it manageable while using other applications. If there was a small player mode you could just drop it into the corner while you surf, photoshop, etc.

4) I will NEVER purchase anything from the iTms. I am very much against DRM music, I should be able to do whatever I want with it when I purchase it.


I'm assuming you must use windows since the WinAmp reference. I've not used WinAmp for a few years (since I moved to a Powerbook) but WinAmp was ugly and didn't do a whole lot for me, not sure about the sorting though because I've not found a need to sort.

I think the WindowShade thing must be a PC thing, it works on my mac. iTunes is at work on my Thinkpad so I can't test this, but does pushing on the maximize button again make it a little player? On Mac OS X if you push the green button (max) it makes it tiny.

As for the DRM. Jeeze I hate this excuse.

Name me something you can't do with iTunes DRM that you can that you are supposed to be able to based on the licensing agreements? I can burn them to CD, I can play them on my computers throughout the house, and i can save them off onto a CD in original format as a backup.

What's so evil about that?

Trekkie
Jan 8, 2004, 07:21 PM
Originally posted by brywalker
Um, that isn't very true at all.

Buy me. (http://www-132.ibm.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?categoryId=2049132&catalogId=-840&langId=-1&storeId=1)

Sorry, I should correct that statement slightly.

IBM does not have a 'consumer line' and a 'office line' like HP does.

HP has the Presario that is only sold at best buy, etc, and then has the Deskpro line 'for work'.

While IBM has the ThinkCenter and THinkPad. None of them targeted at Best Buy, etc.

They used to with the Aptiva, but it's long gone.

J-Squire
Jan 8, 2004, 07:24 PM
Originally posted by restiffbard
Open up the iTMS and at the top are ad banners highlighting new music and the like. That ad space could just as easily highlight new products from Apple.

Just checked the ITMS too see that they are in fact advertising iPod mini's in rotation on the banners at the top of the store. Definitely potential for other products, but I would guess that Apple would keep it restricted to music-related products so as not to cheapen the ITMS.

VIREBEL661
Jan 8, 2004, 07:28 PM
A weird world we live in as far as tech goes - who would've imagined a pairing such as this?... I think (like many others) that this is great news for Apple! I'm not sure how this would positively affect our favorite computing platform, but hopefully it bodes well. Now if we can get G5's (and G6's) in everything - match or beat intel on mhz, and get some high profile users of xServe (Pixar, or Hollywood in general), we'll be sitting pretty... I think ALL of this will happen within the next year - an exciting time to be a Mac enthusiast!

machinehien
Jan 8, 2004, 07:34 PM
A rebranded iPod is nothing to get excited over at all. No innovation, just a new brand name molded into the plastic. I don't see it as a potential huge seller at all; HP isn't a huge CE name, despite their aspirations ...



I think it goes a long way to adding value to both brands. Think about GM's decission to rebadge import cars in the early to mid nineties. At the time they couldn't really compete with the imports in terms of quality and they were losing lifelong customers and it turns out that people who bought a Toyota would come back to buy another or upgrade to a Lexus.

GM striking a deal allowed them to stock reliable compact cars in the showroom and make them available to people who wouldn't dare step foot into a Toyota dealership. More importantly it kept people from having to leave the car dealership.

Same thing with HP rebadging the iPod and iTMS, it helps them attract customers who might otherwise go to Dell or Gateway and provide a total solution for their needs. Apple gains a lot more credibility as a manufacturer and some mindshare within HP's market.

jayb2000
Jan 8, 2004, 07:37 PM
Originally posted by brywalker
3) There is no windowshade or small player mode. It is far too large to make it manageable while using other applications. If there was a small player mode you could just drop it into the corner while you surf, photoshop, etc.

4) I will NEVER purchase anything from the iTms. I am very much against DRM music, I should be able to do whatever I want with it when I purchase it.




3) Go to Advanced, and chose "Switch to Mini Player" or use CTRL-M

4) Thats not a problem with iTunes, only the iTMS. Just buy a CD and rip it.

NavyIntel007
Jan 8, 2004, 07:44 PM
GM has rebranded the Toyota Matrix and Echo for sales in the states. Mazda rebrands their B-series trucks off of the Ford Ranger platform. The Dodge Stratus and Chrysler Seabring are both built on the Mitsubishi Eclipse body frame. In fact, a bottom of the line Dodge Stratus two door has a Mitsubishi engine. Honda/Acura had rebranded Isuzu SUVs for a long time.

Rebranding is nothing new. If anything the price to manufacture the ipod will decrease because of parts ordered in increased quantities.

machinehien
Jan 8, 2004, 07:58 PM
I think this alliance is what Apple needed to help break the WMA coalition being advocated everywhere else.

A month ago everyone was talking about AAC vs WMA and player compatibiliy and the future looked sketchy with Apple as the sole advocate on this front. Apple can't really do it by itself.

I think this partnership with HP will go a long long way in legitimizing the AAC format and hopefully other music services might acknowledge AAC and make that available to iPod/hPod owners. If they don't they forfiet 50% of the digital player market to iTMS.

brywalker
Jan 8, 2004, 08:18 PM
Other players support encoding in AAC.

Winamp5 on the PC side does. Its a good format, but I would say that it isn't leaps and bounds better than MP3. Its all lossy.

These companies have to step up and support SHN and FLAK. Nice lossless codecs. :)

Sad thing is, no one cares about audio being compressed and lossy anymore. The audiophile is a dying breed. Everything from satellite, digital cable, even Dolby Digital and DTS are all compressed lossy formats.

NavyIntel007
Jan 8, 2004, 08:38 PM
CD's are a lossy formats as well.

Codemonkey
Jan 8, 2004, 08:38 PM
Originally posted by brywalker
The audiophile is a dying breed. Everything from satellite, digital cable, even Dolby Digital and DTS are all compressed lossy formats.

It's because something has to give. Technically, nothing sounds better than a vaccuum tube amp either, but people just got tired of a) expensive tubes that constantly need replacing and b) a sheer lack of mobility considering the amps weighed over 20lbs.

Everything comes at a price. The difference with audio is that everything is subjective, and technically it's all crap anyway compared to in-the-flesh music.

So who cares?

5000 songs easily navigable in a sleek bit of industrial design that's smaller than a pack of Camels. I'd say that's worth a bit of (subjective) lossiness.

All this to say that yes, audiophiles may very well be a dying breed. But generally we're all benefiting from their dire sacrifice. :p

uberman42
Jan 8, 2004, 08:42 PM
polishing up the Newton OS and stuffing it into an iPaq.

This is good for the mindshare. People unknowingly will see an iPod attached to a HP machine, look at how cool this HP/Apple product is, get kinda curious about what it Apple is all about, walk over to the apple section and checks out the other Apple products. This is good.

I think I am clairvoiant. I was looking at a design magazine and saw the HP 17" laptop. And for the last few days before this announcement, I was thinking about HP for some dumb reason. I did not know why, but I was just thinking about their products. I need to work on harnessing this power.

I might have to buy that see-thru HP scanner just as a thanks for taking a big chance on a smaller, but totally cool company.

Zech Marquis
Jan 8, 2004, 08:45 PM
this is a nice surprise! HP PCs are sold everywhere, and they also advertise their PCs alot. With the new emphasis on their Media Center PCs, iTunes and the future HP iPods will be very hard to miss.

I'll still get my iBook G4, and this summer I could consider an HP media Center PC as well. That will be mainly for recording sports games on the dvd r recorders, and perhaps the few PC games that aren't released on my Xbox.

Can Gateway be next? It'll make aot of sense for them to jump on the iPod/iTunes bandwagon too...

NavyIntel007
Jan 8, 2004, 09:07 PM
Can Gateway be next? It'll make aot of sense for them to jump on the iPod/iTunes bandwagon too...

They can't, HP has an exclusion deal for a while. Now I'm not sure on the bundling iTunes deal...

cr2sh
Jan 8, 2004, 09:41 PM
When I hear news like this I think to myself "we're going to win."

iTunes bundled into HP computers... next up, the OS. :D

Lancetx
Jan 8, 2004, 10:15 PM
Originally posted by NavyIntel007
They can't, HP has an exclusion deal for a while. Now I'm not sure on the bundling iTunes deal...

No, it's the other way around. The multi-year exclusive deal is for the iTunes software bundling with HP PCs, not for the iPod hardware. Things will get really interesting if we also see in the future iPods branded from others like Gateway, Toshiba, etc. as well.

"Schiller would not say whether Apple may look to craft similar deals with other computer or electronics makers. While that part of the deal is not exclusive, Schiller said HP's promotion of the iTunes Music Store through its PCs is a "multiyear, exclusive" deal."

GregA
Jan 8, 2004, 11:29 PM
Originally posted by Ransath
Now, how long do you think it will be before HP starts offering an "alternative" operating system named Panther? heheh - ya never know! Hmmm... HP has too many divergent hardware and software systems now. Alpha chips, VAX/VMS, 3 Unixes.... not to mention ITANIUM (co-developed between HP & Intel).

Adding a new OS (and chipset I assume?) may not be seen as 'a good thing'. However, there are other places Apple and HP could work together... Like a home media device?. Or the use of Mac interface (and Cocoa?) on their Unix and VMS?

On Apple's side - I think it would be good for them. HP have a great computer service groups - so if they ever sold Mac+PowerPC, they'd give great support to corporates. They would also be unlikely to undercut Apple in the corporate area. And users would buy other apple things like .Mac, OSX upgrades, and iLife.

ps. There is another company with great corporate support who use the PowerPC already... IBM. Pity they don't get more involved with Apple software (OSX, iTunes, whatever)

Sir_Giggles
Jan 9, 2004, 01:28 AM
Did you see how happy Steve was about their marketshare in the MP3 player market?

How he did that little arm flap and torso turn? That was a funny sight to see. I don't think I've ever seen him that happy, (as opposed to being excited). It was nice to see that.

Felt good to be a market leader in something. HEHE :D

iMan
Jan 9, 2004, 04:09 AM
Originally posted by hughdogg
I wonder if this mean the ITMS will be going worldwide soon for our poor European and Canadian friends????


I wonder if there is a coincidence or only due to capacity that the minis are not going worldwide until april... I feel something's cooking... :D

iMan
Jan 9, 2004, 04:12 AM
Anyone see the MS reply:


Microsoft has said that it plans to offer its own MSN music store later this year. Thursday the company appeared unprepared for the Apple-Hewlett agreement, which clearly stung Microsoft executives. They said the agreement would limit choice and harm consumers.

"Windows is about choice, you can mix and match all of this stuff," said David Fester, general manager of Microsoft's Windows digital media division. "We believe you should have the same choice when it comes to music services."



Windows about choice... yeah, that's just why Netscape + + + + and now Real is sueing their asses all the time...

I am laughing so my heart threatens to stop... ;D

CmdrLaForge
Jan 9, 2004, 05:30 AM
Originally posted by arn
this is huge.

arn

Yes absolutly. I was really amazed when I read it first. Couldn't believe it. This is definitly a very huge move.

whooleytoo
Jan 9, 2004, 08:09 AM
Originally posted by Wkaemena
And finally every HP and Compac computer will come with Quicktime installed..... ( via itunes for WIN):D

That's exactly the first thing I thought of!

I'm a developer for a (currently PC only) video software company, that's been using QuickTime for some time but was going to switch to Windows Media. This might just swing things back in QuickTime's favour - and might make a Mac version possible.

Supa_Fly
Jan 9, 2004, 08:09 AM
Oh dear I guess this news about 7% penetration of the US pda market is true.

Ransath, you said I bought my first MP3 player, which I still have, from Compaq. It's name? IPaq. You mentioned something along the line that the IPaq name was borrowed towards their PDA line.

Wrong. The iPaq name was FIRST used in their PDA name. Then the Ipaq music player. The Ipaq PDA line along with quality laptops and desktops were the sole reason Compaq did so well, and why Fiorina wanted to buy COmpaq out.

Glad to hear that HP brand iPod will not undersell the Original, nor will it taint the name.

engelb15
Jan 9, 2004, 08:15 AM
Originally posted by Prom1
Oh dear I guess this news about 7% penetration of the US pda market is true.

Ransath, you said You mentioned something along the line that the IPaq name was borrowed towards their PDA line.

Wrong. The iPaq name was FIRST used in their PDA name. Then the Ipaq music player. The Ipaq PDA line along with quality laptops and desktops were the sole reason Compaq did so well, and why Fiorina wanted to buy COmpaq out.

Glad to hear that HP brand iPod will not undersell the Original, nor will it taint the name.

Actually the iPaq name was first used for a Compaq Desktop PC.....

http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/10638_na/10638_na.HTML

iPC
Jan 9, 2004, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by Stoffel
Sounds like a good idea. I wonder how it will look like. Probably not so well designed.....
iPod in blue, with hp logo. That's the only differences that I can find.

I wonder how long until people scream that it is unfair how new computers (PC market) come with iTunes installed, with a link on the desktop that takes you to iTMS???

It is the basis for many a lawsuit against M$ after all...

:rolleyes:

"H-P had been widely expected to develop its own music player and possibly its own service for selling digital music. But Ms. [HP chief executive Carly] Fiorina said H-P concluded, after studying available options, that the design of Apple's iPod was the best around, so it made no sense to bring a competing device to market at the moment. Under the relationship, Apple will manufacture a version of the device for H-P that will be blue, rather than the original white design for iPod, and will carry H-P's logo, Mr. [Apple chief executive Steve] Jobs said. H-P also agreed to install Apple iTunes music software in future consumer PCs and notebook computers, and include an icon on the opening screen of those machines that will direct users to Apple's online store."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A3132-2004Jan9.html

SilvorX
Jan 9, 2004, 01:34 PM
I'm too lazy to look through 10 pages of posts, so if this pic hasnt been posted:
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20040109/lthumb.ny87101091856.the_ipod_juggernaut_ny871.jpg

So its either going to be black I guess or else thats just the back of the ipod at a weird angle

UWF404
Jan 9, 2004, 03:01 PM
news.com has a video of the Carly Speech announcing the partnership. In it she shows off the the HP Ipod.

Earendil
Jan 9, 2004, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by iPC

I wonder how long until people scream that it is unfair how new computers (PC market) come with iTunes installed, with a link on the desktop that takes you to iTMS???

It is the basis for many a lawsuit against M$ after all...

:rolleyes:


The major difference is this I believe:
Microsoft owns Windows, and they build programs INTO the OS in ways that they can't, or are difficult, to remove. And then put the compatition in such a hidden place, or else made it so it was hard for them to run there software.
As someone else pointed out, on new windows machines lots of icons are right on the desktop out of the box (sadly) and that iTunes won't be any different. It won't be build into the OS, it will just be another program among many. Besides, Microsfot is being sued for the ABUSE of power. Apple has no power, so they can't abuse it :D

What I hope won't happen is Microsoft threaten HP behind closed doors, or else change the Windows OS in a way that puts there own Music store above iTunes, and maybe make it impossible for iTunes to run...
I can just see it...

"woops, well, I guess our new update for windows doesn't let iTunes run, sorry aobut that. Here you go Apple, here's what you need to fix it, now go work on that iTunes update for 6 months".

...in the mean time Microsofts Music store takes front page on all windows machines...

*sigh*

Tyler
Earendil

GregA
Jan 9, 2004, 03:50 PM
Originally posted by Earendil
What I hope won't happen is Microsoft threaten HP behind closed doors, or else change the Windows OS in a way that puts there own Music store above iTunes, and maybe make it impossible for iTunes to run...I doubt that would happen. It would be too obvious.

It would be VERY interesting to be a fly on the wall though at HP with their new media-box-pc 'thing'. It certainly must be using iTunes eh? And sync to iPod?

MS will be pushing themselves... and their device can run iTunes and sync with iPod so it's possible. So will the hp device be Windows/Intel based? Mac/PowerPC? Or something distinctly HP - Alpha? Itanium? HP/UX unix? Linux? Or some new lower power device? Compatible with whatever Apple does? And does iPhoto have a future here?

winmacguy
Jan 10, 2004, 04:01 AM
Originally posted by Diatribe
Either in size or Apple is gonna bring out a 4th generation in a bit that HP won't get. I don't think they are gonna get the entire IPod line.
Either way this is huge. I don't think Apple is making that much money off of IPods anyway, they smell a bigger market in the ITMS being spread more. They said when they started that they would need at least a 100 million Songs to be sold in order for it to be profitable. Now that number doesn't seem that far away.
Now if they get the ITMS to every place else in the world and bring out some below 200$ IPods, Apple is going to be the Microsoft of Online Music and Mp3s. If they aren't already.

<edit: typos>

Interesting view. Apple have made loads of money on the iPod. considering they have sold the entire production run at full price in the run up to christmas. I think they have done 2 billion dollars this last quater

winmacguy
Jan 10, 2004, 04:18 AM
Originally posted by iMan
I wonder if there is a coincidence or only due to capacity that the minis are not going worldwide until april... I feel something's cooking... :D

iTMS world wide would be good. I originally was hoping it was going to be anounced at MWSF but nothing eventuated

iMan
Jan 10, 2004, 05:35 AM
Interesting also that there where more or less accurate rumors about almost everything that eventuated at MWSF - but this HP deal hit right out of the blue... and this being maybe the biggest thing Apple have pulled in some time it is certain they can suprise a lot in time to come.
Also I kind of feel they are merging more and more with the rest of the computerworld - i.e. with Mac OS X the Mac is not that strange an animal as it used to be... the pods and ITMS going windows another indication... I am not sure how this ties in strategically though... I suppose Apple still needs to sell it's hardware...

johnnyjibbs
Jan 12, 2004, 05:30 AM
The HP deal does bring up some interesting questions about their computers and Mac OS.

However, far from HP becoming a provider of Mac clones, I think this is reflecting the change in attitude of Apple. They are learning to work with Windows, rather than as a complete 'other side' (which we refer to as the good side ;) :D). The iPod and this are good vehicles to get Apple known and for people to realise that Apple is a force to reckoned with, and this will lure people towards Macs in the long run.

For HP, this is merely a way of being in the music player market (which they are forced to now, or will risk getting left behind). If you can't beat them (i.e. the iPod), why don't you join them?

antfarm
Jan 12, 2004, 10:32 AM
This is only the beginning, read on...

From money.cnn.com:
"HP also announced plans to start selling this fall what it calls an "entertainment hub" that will include a single, central storage device, as well as a distribution and access point for all music, photo, video and movie collections in the home."

I'll be willing to bet that this will be the long rumored "iBox" from Apple (see http://www.macosx.com/content/article.php?cid=55 ) branded for HP and will include Windows - compatible versions of iPhoto, iMovie and iDVD.

centauratlas
Jan 12, 2004, 12:11 PM
Although I have not seen this elsewhere, today (1/12/2004) in the Wall Street Journal, Philip Schiller is quoted as saying a new cheaper mini iPod is coming, assuming they wrote what he said.

Here is the relevant part of the article
(http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB10738611995996000,00.html?mod=technology_main_whats_news - subscription required):
...
Apple's senior vice president of world-wide product marketing, Philip Schiller, says the entry of Microsoft -- a company "who copied us before will try to copy us again," he says -- doesn't especially worry Apple.
His company hopes to boost iPod sales through a lower-priced version of the device introduced last week for $249 -- $50 less than Apple's least-expensive existing model. In February Apple kicks off an iTunes marketing campaign with PepsiCo Inc. Apple has said its iTunes site is only marginally profitable for it and that it makes more money from selling iPods.
...

Note they say "a lower priced version of the iPod introduced last week" (e.g. a lower priced iPod mini).

Perhaps the reporter meant to say "a lower priced version of the iPod, which was introduced last week." But, that isn't what they say, they say, 'a lower priced version of the device [that was] introduced last week.' Likewise there is no comma to segment the clause, so (a) the online and hard copy papers made a mistake, (b) the reporter can't write, or (c), they really meant what they said.

Perhaps they are just idiots, but I hope not.

I also liked the quotation about Microsoft and copying. Quite funny.

winmacguy
Jan 12, 2004, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by balconycollapse
I was watching FCNN or whatever the financial news channel is a few weeks ago and they had Carly Fiorina on discussing all the usual numbers and so forth. I was very impressed with what should had to say and basically defended the analysts claiming dell was beating them. She knows what she is doing! The lame thing was she was constantly being asked questions to the effect of "your a woman, do you know what your doing" and so forth. I would have rather heard more of her great ideas. I think because of the way the talking heads in business operate and the fact that she is a woman in power scares alot of people. My belief is that she is one of the most powerful people in the computer world and just made a new buddy in steve jobs (certainly one of the most powerful as well). It was clear in her interview that she has a killer instinct and plans on putting the hurt on dell. I think apple is also a bit tired of dell borrowing ideas and claiming innovation. Definately two of the most recognizable companies in the world were brought together to defeat a common enemy. I have heard less then stellar things about the quality of HP computers, and certainly think that compaq is crap. But you can be certain that if i were to recommend a computer to a family member who despite my persuasion wouldn't buy a mac i would steer them to HP. I also find interesting the vast amount of money HP spends on R and D. Likewise they brag regularly about HP computers being responsible for Shrek. Could a possible marraige of Pixar to some HP technologies come in the future as well.

One last thing...

If the numbers are right thats 40 million HP computers. Adding in the 25 million or so AOL users, and all computers that had AOL preinstalled. Be chunk of iTunes bait.

------
too crazy for boys town, too much of a boy for crazy town

What most guys in business fail to observe or realise is that corporate women tend to be sharp shrewd operators when doing deals. Basically they USE their brains when doing deals. Most guys can only think of one thing at a time while women have that "multi tasking" ability which usually includes planning what they are doing and thinking about the consequences, watching what the opposition is doing and seeing the consequences and planning ahead for the next big move to counter the oppositions response all in one breath. Meanwhile the guys are only focused on the current deal they are doing.