One Dead Pixel on brand new iBook

[Doraemon]

Can I return my brand-new iBook (shipped today) because of one dead pixel?

I think I read somewhere, that one dead pixel is within tolerance, but I am really pissed because of this. I know, one dead pixel is not the end of the world, but I feel that a brand new product should not ship with flaws.

The recent comments regarding Apple's quality control seem to be true. :(

[Sun Baked]

A dead (aka dark) pixel is a lot better than stuck-on pixels.

[latergator116]

I don't think dead pixels are condiered flaws because it is normal in the process of making the LCD. You could try to call apple but I doubt they would fix or return it.

[Doraemon]

Originally posted by Sun Baked
A dead (aka dark) pixel is a lot better than stuck-on pixels.

Well, then it is perhaps a stuck-on pixel. It is white.

[jxyama]

there's been numerous threads on this before and the fact remains the same. one dead/stuck pixel is not returnable and it has not much to do with apple's QA - LCD screens are supplied by similar vendors for all laptops.

a 1024 x 768 screen has nearly 3 million transistors - any of them fail and you have a stuck/dead pixel. you could call it a "flaw" if you want, but i know of no other product with so many parts with, in general, such a low failure percentage.

p.s. did you try gently massaging the area? i've fixed a few stuck pixels that way...

[jxyama]

accidental double post.

[QCassidy352]

yes, gently massage the stuck pixel with soft cloth while holding the LCD firmly behind the spot you are massaging. It usually works.

[Doraemon]

Originally posted by jxyama
there's been numerous threads on this before and the fact remains the same. one dead/stuck pixel is not returnable and it has not much to do with apple's QA - LCD screens are supplied by similar vendors for all laptops.

a 1024 x 768 screen has nearly 3 million transistors - any of them fail and you have a stuck/dead pixel. you could call it a "flaw" if you want, but i know of no other product with so many parts with, in general, such a low failure percentage.

p.s. did you try gently massaging the area? i've fixed a few stuck pixels that way...

Massaging didn't help.

I guess you're right.
But I was so looking forward to the new iBook and this stuck pixel kind of spoiled the day (aside from that, installing the AirPort Extreme card was a read pain, but that's a different story).

[jxyama]

well, it's not really "right" or "wrong" but i guess learning to live with it...

fwiw, mine was perfect when i got the machine, but since then, it has developed one dead pixel. so having a perfect screen at the beginning is no guarantee that it will stay that way...

i know it sucks, too bad you had to notice it! :D

[Doraemon]

Originally posted by jxyama
i know it sucks, too bad you had to notice it! :D

Fascinating, isn't it?
Ever since I have noticed it, I can't stop looking at it.
Funny how the human brain works. ;)

[Mantat]

On dead pixel on an iBook is not THAT bad compared to dead pixel on 23" cinema display... Just imagine paying 3000$ for a screen which has a flaw... At least with the iBook you can use external monitor... A friend of mine was in this situation and was really freaked out and one day later the pixel was gone and everything was fine...

Moral of the story: with so many parts, there is a real risk of dead pixel.

I wonder how many screens have to be discarded because they had more than 4 dead pixels.

[jxyama]

Originally posted by Mantat
Moral of the story: with so many parts, there is a real risk of dead pixel.


not quite... :D

moral of the story: don't ask the question you don't want to know the answer to. or, don't look for things if you don't want to find them.

23" display has ~7 million transistors... 1 stuck pixel is less than 0.000015% failure rate... :eek:

[Doraemon]

Originally posted by Mantat
On dead pixel on an iBook is not THAT bad compared to dead pixel on 23" cinema display... Just imagine paying 3000$ for a screen which has a flaw...

I don't care if I paid $1300 or $3000. Either case, it's annoying.

But I'll learn to live with it.

[jtown]

That dead pixel thing in LCD monitors is what kept me from buying one last time I needed a monitor at home. If I'd thought about it when I was looking at the ibook, I may have changed my mind specifically because of that issue. Fortunately, my ibook display is perfect (knock on wood).

[neoelectronaut]

CRT wins again!

:-P

Seriously, though, suff like this makes me thankful for not getting the iMac just in case something like this were to happen.

[slipper]

you might wanna consider calling the BBB cause no matter how you put it, its still a defect. its like saying theres a crack in the windshield when you got the car brand new, "but the crack only covers 1/20,000 of the windshield". i would be pissed im my iBook was shipped with a dead pixel. you have your rights, try calling your local BBB and excersize your rights.

[jtown]

Slipper, you can report any business to the BBB for anything that strikes your fancy but that won't make it a legitimate complaint. The "dead pixel policy" is clearly spelled out and "defective" is clearly defined. 1 pixel (dead or stuck) does not equal defective according to the definition used by Apple.

[slipper]

why is that one DEAD pixel not defective...its not working! i never read apples 'dead pixel policy' but im just stating that maybe he should contact some person or company regarding his rights.

[Hodapp]

Originally posted by jtown
The "dead pixel policy" is clearly spelled out and "defective" is clearly defined for pretty much any company that sells anything to do with LCD's. 1 pixel (dead or stuck) does not equal defective according to the definition used by any company that I know of.

Fixed for you :)

P.S. http://www6.tomshardware.com/display/20030319/

[jxyama]

Originally posted by slipper
why is that one DEAD pixel not defective...its not working! i never read apples 'dead pixel policy' but im just stating that maybe he should contact some person or company regarding his rights.

iPod has a claimed battery life of 8 hours. if your battery lasted 7 hours, 59 minutes 59.99568 seconds, would you complain that the iPod's defective?

that's the level of "defect" we are talking about here, if you wanted 1 pixel on a 23" LCD to be considered a true "defect." granted above analogy is not perfect at all, because 0.00432 seconds is not perceptible while 1 dead pixel is pretty clearly obvious, if you know where to look. but still, my point stands, somewhat.

such level of perfection is considered "unreasonable" and apple has decided (as well as many others in the LCD industry) that they would apply a different standard for what's considered a "defect" for LCD. live with it or don't purchase LCDs. it's a part of life. it has nothing to do with consumer rights or apple trying to screw you. if you kept on insisting that apple provide you with a defect free LCD (via BBB or other "legal channels"), they will just give you a refund and tell you that they cannot afford to give you such a guarantee, so please go buy something else.

[kidA]

nobody wants a dead or stuck pixel, that's the fact. it's also true that dead pixels are part of the manufacturing of LCDs, it happens. if every LCD was guaranteed against every single stuck or dead pixel, LCD prices would go waay way up.

[jxyama]

Originally posted by io_burn
Fixed for you :)

P.S. http://www6.tomshardware.com/display/20030319/

by the way, excellent read.

[Counterfit]

I'm guessing from how annoyed with it you seem, that it's in or near the center of the screen. I've heard that Apple and other companies are slightly more lenient on their policy when the dead/stuck pixel is right in the middle, as opposed to on the side or in a corner.

[slipper]

theres nothing wrong with inquiring about your rights despite the policy. i was thinking about buying a studio display in the future. i guess the best way to prevent the dead pixel problem from happening to you is purchase directly from the apple store and ask to test the merchandise before hand? i dont know if thats possible though.

[jxyama]

Originally posted by slipper
i guess the best way to prevent the dead pixel problem from happening to you is purchase directly from the apple store and ask to test the merchandise before hand? i dont know if thats possible though.

nope. if you ask them to open it, then they will not be allowed (by law) to re-seal it and sell as new. it will have to be sold as a refurb, even if you never even turn the thing on.

so unless you are willing to pay the 10% re-stocking fee apple charges for returns of opened items within 10 days, there's no way for you to test for it...

[mstecker]

Apple could define "defect" as "no dead pixels", but then their price would go up substantially for their sourcing of LCDs, and thus your price for machines would go up substantially.

Is that what you'd prefer? In order for people to make a proper price comarison between Apple LCDs and other vendors, they need to have rougly the same policies.

Here's a link to an article that describes those policies (http://www.tomshardware.com/display/20030319/)

This issue hits home with me becuase I just had an eBay buyer go ballistic on me when I sold them a perfect PowerBook but for a single dead pixel. Even after pointing out to them that Apple themselves won't consider this a defect, the buyer tried to make my life a living hell.

Here's Apple's take on the subject (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=22194)

Note that they won't give a firm number, but the document strongly suggests that some nonzero number of "pixel anomolies" is considered non-defective.