Worst Things About Windows XP

[Spock]

O.K I heard what You like about XP, know I want to know what You don't like about XP and why You use a Mac. Please keep clean and simple.

[edesignuk]

Product Activation, CD-key checked when WindowsUpdate run, all that privacy kinda stuff.

[DavidLeblond]

The one thing that got me to switch was one Windows Update.

Whenever it installed this Update (which was a "critical update") it would freeze my computer and I would have to remove it. So I kept getting bugged to install this update. Then they decided to roll that update into a package with all the other critical updates, so I could no longer update. Way to go QA department.

My computer finally died when Windows openly let another program overwrite some of my DLLs.

The product activation thing never bothered me. I have a legal copy and all it requres is clicking one button. Big deal. If Panther starts getting pirated a lot, don't be surprised if 10.4 requires activation.

[kuyu]

Takes too long for anything to work once I log in. Also, on a network, XP takes about 2-3 minutes to finish login, os X takes about 30 seconds.

[virividox]

oooo them and their send report to microsoft annoying thingy ugh

[johnnyjibbs]

Overcomplicated.

Yeah, I know, a featue of Windows in general but in XP they seem to have made everything even more complex when trying to simplify things for the consumer. Too many buttons!

I'm not a complete lemon when it comes to computers but it makes me appreciate how simple and easy Mac OS X is to use.

Glad they fixed the crashing problem though.

[Powerbook G5]

I don't like the whole contextual based GUI or whatever it is they call it. Whenever I have to use it or fix one of my sisters' computers, I am continually being circumvented by Windows itself making me have to use some "wizard" that doesn't give me the options I need to do what I need to fix the problem. Not to mention, going into any folder or window just knocks you over with 1/3 of the window being taken up by useless "suggestions" of what I must want to do but none of them are of any use to me. It just seems so idiot proofed that Windows itself has become the very icon of idiocy. It just seems like Microsoft wasn't content with having simple, straight forward folders, control panels, and access to features and tools, but instead, had to make everything a wizard and everything trying to tell you what you must want to do as if you had no clue what a "Folder" or an "Icon" was.

[patrick0brien]

-Spock

Some stuff that are a little more exotic:

-Propensity to spontaneously change its settings.

-Lack of common sense in some settings
For example, When I'm working, I wire my 12PB to ethernet, and create a private wireless network so my T30 (XP Pro) can bridge in - two machines, one connection, no hubs or basestations. Every now and then, the wireless network setting and LAN network setting in the XP box will start DHCP'ing to each other (incestuous isn't it?) thereby removing itself from net-workability. Why didn't MS think that this was even a possibility of occurrence when they wrote this? Stands to reason that if one active connection happens to grab the same IP another active connection is serving in the same OS instance, may-not-be-a-good-idea.

-XP is in my face. I'm skilled a teensy bit above the average user - get that wizard out of there. No more clippy! If xp want to tell me something, fine, let it, just don't unfocus me from my current task so I'm not typing into oblivion. (I've noticed even the Mac versions of MS products usurp focus too).

-Errors are terse, and accusatory - just pisses me off.

-Help files are rarely useful - Don't tell me that I can to the wonderful thing I am asking about, tell me how to use it!

-I'm not the master of the system, MS is.
Ever try to remove MSN Messenger (just one example)? The icon and GUI goes, but the functionality stays - so when I connect, it kicks off an already connected machine.

-Needs a lot of hand-holding. I'm running Oracle, VPN, Apache, TomCat, CVS, and a lot of other things. I need to do my work, not constantly tweaking the damn thing so that I can do that work - again, get out of my bloody way!

[voodoofish]

The lack of anything close to iLife that I would acctually want to use. Their insistence on stupid proprietory formats such as WMA. I HATE how windows media works - means you have to use loads of different applications by different companies that don't work well together. Even when using microsoft products, they don't work well, for example I've used Pocket PC and Windows SmartPhone, both of which are made by Microsoft, and yet it was hellishly difficult to get either of them to work well with the PC. For example, SmartPhone has Windows MediaPlayer built in, but msft make no attempt to explain how to transfer files from PC to your cellphone with it, and infact you cannot even do it through WMP itself, which would be the logical thing to do!! When using Word 2003 to read documents made in older versions of word (ie. 2000), the formating is displayed incorrectly!!

[bannedagain]

Originally posted by Spock
O.K I heard what You like about XP, know I want to know what You don't like about XP and why You use a Mac. Please keep clean and simple.

I hate that these dam threads keep popping up, just like the dam popups in WinXP. I have turned them all off.

[Les Kern]

All I remember is getting pissed off at everything: 30 updates in the first week I had it, losing the wireless signal at any moment, flakey ethernet, my info going directly to Redmond, a stupid metaphor for a desktop, colors are garrish but any mods slows the machine to a crawl, the wizard, losing "X" function when you delete "Y", REALLY ugly version of Office, setting up printing, setting up access to servers, setting up users and permissions, and on and on and on.
Now I use my $2,000 tablet for Pinball (Just over 12,000,000 man!), and the other day I fired it up to use the Journal to draw my remodelling plans for my basement. I found that paper and pencil was easier.
Windows is stupid (or "evil"), tablets are a travesty offered to an unwitting public.

[Counterfit]

The worst thing about XP? Couldn't tell ya, as I have much more experience on 98 (ick!) and 2000 Pro. Ever use 2k Pro on a 300MHz P2? worse than Jaguar on a 333MHz iMac! I don't know if it's fixed in XP, but I hate how whenever the system slows down, there's no way to tell reliably. Sure there's the hourglass, but it doesn't show up all the time. Oh, and I can't stand the way file hierarchy works in Windows, it just seems so illogical. And there's also the drive name thing. A: is the floppy (Why they still exist, I don't know) Then come the optical drives, then hard drives. Want to change the letter? TOO DAMN BAD! :mad:

[1macker1]

Nothing wrong with XP, if you have a up to date PC. But it comes in 2nd to win 2k. That OS was damn near perfect.

[patrick0brien]

Originally posted by 1macker1
Nothing wrong with XP, if you have a up to date PC. But it comes in 2nd to win 2k. That OS was damn near perfect.

-1macker1

Then I suppose you are not stressing the system enough.

This is supposed to be a thread about "Worst Things About Windows XP", to say it's perfect may be a little on the naive side.

There is no such thing as anything perfect, especially OS's. I find it particularly interesting that XP makes it so easy to pick on.

[grapes911]

Well, I can tell that most of you aren't computer lovers. At least you don't use windows too much. I am a mac user. I am a linux user. I haven't used windows as a primary os for some time now. I do use it just to keep up with it in case I ever have to use it. There are good things and bad things. They have many things that apple can lean from. Of course, the opposite is true too.

1. Activation -- ok, so it is a pain to do. I agree. But they have to. MS makes their money on software. Apple does too, but they really rely on their hardware to bring in the cash. Wouldn't you do whatever it takes to protect you biggest asset too? (even the 2004 norton products now require activation)

2. Windows Update -- I've used windows for a long time. Windows Update is the only thing that kept my computer from crashing. Those Updates have always worked for me. I just asked my roomates and they never had a problem either. And why would YOU allow your dlls to be over written. What did you install?

3. Logging in -- I use an amd 2600+ in my desktop. When i use windows i log in and in about 20-30 seconds everything is started. Don't let everything start up. There is no need to start every program and service. People want more control over their os, but don't use it.

4. Error Reports -- it takes all of 6 secons to turn this off.

5. Overcomplicated -- I agree. They added so many features (which is good) but they are all over the place. It takes a while to learn. I have to say though, once you take so much time to learn them, you'll never forget.

6. Windows Wizzards -- um, don't use them. As it was said, they are useless. Just do everything manually. I like it that way anyway.

7. Change settings -- yeah, it does that. I hate it.

8. In your face -- you can turn off the help service (which i do) to end most of this.

9. Errors are terse -- good. I don't want some long, unreadable message. Tell me what crashed and let's move on.

10. MSN Messenger -- turn off the service. Why they made it a service, i don't know. But it takes less than 10 seconds to get rid of it.

11. Hand holding -- sorry to hear that. Whenever I install windows on any computer, I tweek all I need right away. ( I do this with linux and mac as well). Do it once and get it over with.

12. Windows Media Player -- Why the hell would you use that. Download BS player and the klite codec pack. Its all you need. (I do get vlc, just in case.)

13. Pop up windws -- I hate them too. I'm glad to hear that someone turned something off though.

14. Hourglass -- agreed

15. Drive letter -- don't like them, change them. Its not that hard.

16. I used win 2k everyday for almost a year. I was shocked that ms could produce something so good (compared to their other stuff). But, 2k can't hold a candle to xp. Sorry. they are both far from perfect though.

Sorry for my long rant, but I had to play devils advocate. I'll never go back to windows, but give ms some credit. Windows has come a long way. It is now a pretty good and stable os.

[Powerbook G5]

Originally posted by Counterfit
And there's also the drive name thing. A: is the floppy (Why they still exist, I don't know) Then come the optical drives, then hard drives. Want to change the letter? TOO DAMN BAD! :mad:

The last I knew, you could assign your own letters to each of the discs in Windows if you just right click and go to properties or something like that. I remember doing it under 95/98, but haven't tried since.

[jxyama]

could be an isolated case, but i have a scanner. i've used it under account A on XP, but not on account B.

i log in as B and plug in the scanner. scan a picture. nothing.

i login to account A and the scanned image is there. :eek:

what the heck is that all about?

[jxyama]

Originally posted by grapes911
And why would YOU allow your dlls to be over written. What did you install?


i know you were playing devil's advocate, but i have to respond to this one... it's not the user's responsibility to make sure that the OS doesn't do something stupid to itself. he didn't allow DLLs to be overwritten - the OS did.

[Sun Baked]

Originally posted by bannedagain
I hate that these dam threads keep popping up, just like the dam popups in WinXP. I have turned them all off. If you have all these damn threads turned off, how were you able to post here? http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?postid=158571

[grapes911]

Originally posted by jxyama
i know you were playing devil's advocate, but i have to respond to this one... it's not the user's responsibility to make sure that the OS doesn't do something stupid to itself. he didn't allow DLLs to be overwritten - the OS did.

XP will not normally let dlls be overwritten. You need extra software, sofe mode, or certain defined occasions.

[Powerbook G5]

Our old Gateway would get terribly screwed up whenever we ran Software Update. It would get stuck in the DOS portion of bootup (or not DOS, whatever it was). It just kept scrolling something about an error has occured with updating the Windows System Files and then gave a "error %2 cannot equal %1" or something like that and then it'd just sit there until we restart and had to use our Adaptec "Go Back" to go back to a previous save point to reboot. We had a similar issue with my sister's Compaq system when upgrading to the XP SP1 update where it caused Windows to hang during boot where it would go into the desktop and just sit there at the pale blue desktop background and load indefinitely until you do a ctl+alt+del a couple of times and then it will finally load.

Between those experiences with software update and the fact that there are so many that need to be done, and many of which must be done individually, it is so much a headache that I cannot stand doing it. Fortunately, though, the Dell we have hasn't had much problem with it and hopefully it will stay that way.

[rjfiske]

Not exactly the "answer" you were looking for, nor is it specific (it also has the appearance of a loaded or scripted answer) but I went into an apple store, saw OS X (back then it was Jaguar) and fell in love with it's feel. I remember thinking (and this sounds soo much like a cliche') "Man, THIS is how using a computer should be".

The fonts all over the screen on OS X were very crisp (unlike XP), it looked cleaner (unlike XP), the windows seemed more friendly when you maximize and minimize (unlike XP), the default internet browser was very easy to use and elegant (unlike XP)... I could go on.

So I switched and have not regretted it in the least. Anyway, it's easy for me to list a bunch of things that annoyed me about XP but it's much much easier to say that I don't like it because it doesnt' do the stuff that my current OS does.


I suppose you say I have a retrospective dislike for XP... one that only started when I saw OS X. (I hope Apple's marketing department saw that one).

[kwajo.com]

one thing I don't like about XP: it isn't BeOS ;)

[mms]

I agree with everything so far, but another thing that annoys me is the GUI that looks like it was designed by Fisher-Price. Once you see the elegance of OS X you can't go back. And Windows gets in the way, while OS X lets me work.

[mmmdreg]

How about, the fact that I got a Dell -> It started shutting off after overheating -> one day it wouldn't startup -> they tell me to reformat it -> it overheats in the process and shuts off -> i had to hold it in front of a air con to manage it on the 5th go -> it started having internet issues a day later -> got told to reformat -> still overheats -> they tell me to update the BIOS -> it won't install due to "incompatible system" when it is very definitely the right system -> they say they'll send a tech after 2 weeks of fone talk -> he still hasn't come a week later.

Now of course, that was mostly about the PC rather than XP. But through the process I realised how much I hate the install process.

[kuyu]

mmmdreg, that's probably the first bad review of a dell I've heard in a while. I think dell usually makes pretty good stuff, but at the end of the day they still run windows.

In response to the long post, you're right. With about 4 hours during the install process and 1 hour a week tweaking, XP is pretty decent. But then, would anyone buy a new car that required this much tuning and tweaking right off the showroom floor? No way. I love computers (mac's) because they make my life easier, not more complicated.

Windows is overly-complicated, over-rated, and under-whelming.

[FightTheFuture]

the support :(

[bousozoku]

The specific thing about WinXP that bothers me is that I had a scanner that could use a parallel port or USB port. The driver for USB was installed and tested initially. One technician and I switched cables while troubleshooting a recurrent re-booting problem. After he removed the cheap RAM and left, I unplugged the parallel cable and connected the scanner using USB. WinXP wanted the drivers installed again.

The mouse would do the same thing, but WinXP had the mouse drivers and would load them regardless.

The Registry always seems to be a problem. If it's not a hardware driver problem, the registry could be tuned up and any Windows using it would be much better.

I do get the feeling that I'm at fault every time I use Windows, though. One thing Apple said in the Human Interface Guidelines was to not say "Error" when there was a problem. What's the first thing Microsoft says? :D It's like "Your incompetency has caused the downfall of mankind." Maybe, that's what I used to tell people. :D

If Windows worked smoothly, i.e. saved steps in a process, it would be more palatable. I don't hate it. I just don't like it very much.

[MoparShaha]

The graphics subsystem in XP, or any version of Windows, is horrendous. I've used XP Pro on a brand new Dell, 2.8GHz P4, 1GB RAM, and a 64MB GeForce4MX, and the redraws on-screen are worse than my 400MHz iMac. Hell, OS9 did better redraws. I guess the new Aero graphics subsystem in Longhorn is going to remedy this. Well, only four more years, right?

[takao]

Originally posted by MoparShaha
The graphics subsystem in XP, or any version of Windows, is horrendous. I've used XP Pro on a brand new Dell, 2.8GHz P4, 1GB RAM, and a 64MB GeForce4MX, and the redraws on-screen are worse than my 400MHz iMac. Hell, OS9 did better redraws. I guess the new Aero graphics subsystem in Longhorn is going to remedy this. Well, only four more years, right?

hm first time i ever hear of slow redraws in xp ...yeah win98/mw/95/3.11 were slow but win2k and xp ?

im using 2 athlon xp 2000+ one with 1gb ram and gforce ti4200 and another one with same spec but with same geforce mx 440 and 512 ram and i never saw slow redraws (im running also red hat 9.0 on these machines ... compared to that it's extremly fast)

what i think whats worst about xp:

1. registry
2. updating
3. activation think
4.bubble-gum-look is standard
5. sometimes configuration very spread

about wizards: well i think they are only there because of the new users .. they aren't a bad idea but sometimes they aren't very comfortable...

[Powerbook G5]

The 2.8 GHz Dell we have with an integrated Intel 64 meg video card does decent screen draws but slows down whenever something else is being done while it tries to redraw. On the two computers that my sisters use, though, the graphics in XP are terrible and take forever to refresh or resize when you change the view of a folder. They have a 1.6 GHz Compaq with 256 megs RAM and Geforce MX2 and a 2.4 GHz Toshiba laptop with 512 megs RAM and I have no clue what graphics chip that has.

[FriarTuck]

XP = hibernation = wait, wait, wait

OSX = sleep = instant on



XP = plug & pray

OSX = plug & play



XP = update virus profiles at least once a week

OSX = what's a virus?

[jxyama]

Originally posted by FriarTuck
XP = hibernation = wait, wait, wait

OSX = sleep = instant on



hibernation copies the RAM image to the HD and actually shuts down the computer. that's why it's slower but practically no power is consumed.

computer is still on for sleep - it's faster to wake up but takes up power.

i believe you can put XP to sleep as well as hibernate. and the wake time from sleep is much faster than waking from the hibernation, though i'm not sure how it compares to X. (X is very, very fast.)

[Powerbook G5]

With Windows, the sleep/hibernation thing depends more on your hardware and how it supports power management than Windows itself having the support.

[patrick0brien]

-Gents

This is a good point. Wether full hibernation, or a suspend, I've notices flakey behavior on pretty much every XP and Win2k box - especially on this project. None wake as promised. My T30's particular quirk is that once awake, it forgets it has pointing devices (and if you know the t30/40, it has both touchpad and trackpoint), and I'm forced to restart. External mouse too.

One of my compatriates here said it best: "Mac sleep the way computers should sleep."

[sethypoo]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
I don't like the whole contextual based GUI or whatever it is they call it. Whenever I have to use it or fix one of my sisters' computers, I am continually being circumvented by Windows itself making me have to use some "wizard" that doesn't give me the options I need to do what I need to fix the problem. Not to mention, going into any folder or window just knocks you over with 1/3 of the window being taken up by useless "suggestions" of what I must want to do but none of them are of any use to me. It just seems so idiot proofed that Windows itself has become the very icon of idiocy. It just seems like Microsoft wasn't content with having simple, straight forward folders, control panels, and access to features and tools, but instead, had to make everything a wizard and everything trying to tell you what you must want to do as if you had no clue what a "Folder" or an "Icon" was.

I agree with PBG5 on this, I really, really hate how XP tries to suggest what you should do. I also hate the GUI itself.....so ugly, like weird, crazy bubbles.

Mousovers are way, way to over used in XP, too.

[tutubibi]

The worst thing in XP (at least for me):

Enormous waste of screen real estate, so many eye-candy stuff that it is hard to concentrate on the content of the window.

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by takao
4.bubble-gum-look is standard


Its known as the Fisher Price Theme. :D

[rueyeet]

Oh, here we go. Stop me if you've heard this one before.... :rolleyes:

1) Between XP thinking it knows what you want, and forcing you to use those *%#&! wizards, it's a lot harder than it should be to configure and tweak. Why not just make the settings easy to find and understand?

2) The real guts of XP are hidden in the registry/services, which no ordinary user can hope to understand, or make use of.

3) Wireless networking is flaky and a royal pain to configure. Go look at all the threads on Apple's discussion boards with people whose XP PC's won't use AirPort properly.

4) If you want a secure system, you have to arrange that yourself. Buy 3rd party virus protection, and either get a 3rd party firewall or learn to configure the Windows ones. And keep up with those frequent patches, oh yes.

5) Commercial tie-ins are plastered on the desktop of every new PC. Adware and annoyware are common. The system tray is cluttered with blinking icons--"ooh! look at me!" "update me now!"

6) Why, oh why, is there STILL no pop-up blocking in Internet Explorer? Every other web-browser out there has this, already!

7) Half of the UI is taken up with all those "Do you want to do this?" links, because without them, doing "this" would apparently be too difficult to find on your own. And I'll leave out the whole Fisher Price thing.

I'd really still love to build a PC someday, but if I can't run OS X on it, what's the point?

[Westside guy]

Number 1

The default color scheme, which I lovingly refer to as "clown colors". First thing I did after installing (well, and patching) was to shift back to the classic look.

Number 2

Okay on #2 I am being more serious (although I honestly do hate those clown colors!). This is not specific to XP, but I hate the way Microsoft sacrifices OS security for the sake of leveraging their monopoly into other areas (they've done a good job of spinning this into "security vs. features", but in reality it's got little to do with features!). The DCOM bug is the biggest glaring example of this. No one other than Microsoft wanted DCOM, but MS didn't want to go with industry-preferred CORBA - so they come up with DCOM, enable it by default (even though it's not used by most anyone) and BLAM!

Another example, the SQL-slammer stuff - it's bad enough to include a simplified version of MS-SQL in desktop products, but why leave the SQL port open on them as well?

And last but not least... can you say "ActiveX"? And why the heck is IE hooked into the operating system itself? (yes, that's a rhetorical question)

[Calliander]

1) Partitioning and formatting new hard drives is neither as easy nor as quick as OS X.

2) Less user configurability.

3) Every IE window is a new process (and thus, clutters up the taskbar) because the browser is part of the OS instead of a seperate program like Safari.

4) Programs can be downloaded, installed and executed without your knowledge by default.

5) The registry.

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by patrick0brien
-Gents

This is a good point. Wether full hibernation, or a suspend, I've notices flakey behavior on pretty much every XP and Win2k box - especially on this project. None wake as promised. My T30's particular quirk is that once awake, it forgets it has pointing devices (and if you know the t30/40, it has both touchpad and trackpoint), and I'm forced to restart. External mouse too.

One of my compatriates here said it best: "Mac sleep the way computers should sleep."


I have a problem with my 4 year old Dell Latitude going to sleep once every 2-3 months. Otherwise it’s flawless. Takes about 15 seconds to wake up but again it’s a 4 year old system.
But on the flip side My Toshiba is a royal PITA when it comes to sleeping and waking up. I open up the cover and the entire screen goes white with a test pattern rainbow of stripes slowly showing up as if the video card is going psychedelic on me.

My point? It totally depends on how well the hardware supports the software. BIOS, drivers, software running in the background, etc. They all play a part and considering how many forms of hardware MS has to support I think they do an admirable job. On the flip side I’ve seen the occasional post where a PowerBook or iBook doesn’t come back from sleep mode or does some funky trick when coming back so while Macs may be more reliable when doing such things its not like they are rock solid.
Just my .2 cents.

[bryanc]

I recently agreed to help out my parents and install XP on their 1.2 GHz (1Gb) Dell.

They had purchased all the software (including XP, Norton 2004, and Office) so I figured I'd be spending an hour or so flipping CDs in exchange for a free dinner...

After a 7.5 hour marathon SNAFU fest I got their system almost working...sort of.

First, the stupid thing picked up a virus before I could get all the patches downloaded and installed, then I found out that installing the XP drivers for their printer screwed up networking...got that sorted out, and spent some time trying to get the default browser preferences to stick (kept switching itself back to IE), then I discovered that the windows 98 machine on the network couldn't print to the printer hanging off the XP machine. XP has a facility to install other drivers for this purpose, but after three tries, the 98 drivers wouldn't stick...Xerox says this is a bug in XP...Microsoft says this is a problem with the driver...the bottom line is now we can't print from the old computer. The whole system is *significantly* slower under XP than it used to be under 98, and with the printer problems, viruses, and other irritations (pop-ups offering all sorts of rubbish, notifying my easily freaked-out dad about the state of his ethernet connection, stupid wizards everywhere, not to mention Clippy and the fugly interface), I couldn't help asking why they wanted to upgrade...so next weekend I get to downgrade them back to 98.

Cheers

[keisuke_7]

worst thing about windows??
having to reinstall it every 3 months. especially if you like me doing a computing degree and you have multiple programming languages / applications with new ones appearing every 3-6months.
Man, i;ve managed to reinstall windows 3 times in one week due to
a) stupid thing said i had a virus when i installed norton but couldn't remove it.
b)used microsoft own branded bluetooth mouse and keyboard and it would suddenly not pair up at all. Fresh install.
c)try to install a mac theme on it and the whole thing crashed to its knees. ( i know i know i should have just stuck to my powerbook or get a g5 but poor student).

my friend was saying the other day that why doesn't Apple creat a Mac OS X for pc? hell that would mean brilliant os plus cheaper hardware.

Now that would be nice.

[funkywhat2]

I know this thread is about bad things, but I must say that I reallly REALLY like Remote Assistance. It's a little choppy, yeah, but it's really convienent. I'm not sure if Panther has it or not, I think Panther Server does. They really ought to get it in the client, if it isn't there already.

[abhishekit]

my roommates have xp machines..worst thing is that if you dont have a good processor..,ie,p4m or centrino, ur comp gets slow with time...and i mean pathetically slow....u have to 'format' ur hard drive to get over it...duh...

[Spock]

I think that their is some good and some bad in XP, You DO have to give a little credit to Microsoft I mean they have to buid a Operating System to what specs Your computer has, like XP wants what a 400mHZ PRoc, 128mb of ram,sound card,a certain amount of VRAM plus Microsoft has to nake it compatible with so many procs it is not even funny like, Intel P3,P4 Centrino, the AMD Athlons and XP's the list gose on. Then You have Apple who makes the OS completly compatible with only what, the G3 G4 and the G5 of course Mac OS X is going to be better plus Mac OS X dose not have so many little nerds sitting is their basements on dial up tiying to find holes in the OS. Anyways this has been fun.

[Mord]

the main thing I hate is active desktop the open door that lets people screw your pc over lucily I have never owned a pc I started on a pb 100 :) playing schuflepuck all day

secondly I hate all that copyright protection crap.

theirdly I hate the bit with all the stuff in winxp

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by Hector



theirdly I hate the bit with all the stuff in winxp

Ya I too hate all that stuff too. Stuff sucks. ;)

[bannedagain]

Originally posted by Sun Baked
If you have all these damn threads turned off, how were you able to post here? http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?postid=158571

I don't think you quite grasped at what I was getting at;)

I'm going to reformat my C: partition after I get back from Rowing camp, ready for the start of University. My D: partition hasn't been formatted in thre years.

[Powerbook G5]

I don't think I've ever heard a Mac user say he or she had to reformat their HD for the start of a new school semester. I think that can sum things up pretty well.

[patrick0brien]

-PowerBook G5

Too true.

If bannedagain was joking, it is funny. If he's attempting to insert a serious item of defense for XP, we've just witnessed a classic pedodentism.

[Chad Woodland]

Reasons why I switched:

1. Windows update(s) over and over. It became obnoxious that I had to let it download and then reboot so often.

2. Virus Protection. Also obnoxious. Always downloading. Sometimes asking to restart sometimes not but always creating congestion on my bandwidth.

3. Nothing worked exactly right. You could never just "do" anything. Like burn a CD took several efforts - (sony vaio 2GHz) because the computer froze, had an error, etc...

It was a large, clunky, half perfected attempt at an operating system that became worse and worse the more you used it.

Chad Woodland
happy mac addict

[Mav451]

Originally posted by Calliander
1) Partitioning and formatting new hard drives is neither as easy nor as quick as OS X.

2) Less user configurability.

3) Every IE window is a new process (and thus, clutters up the taskbar) because the browser is part of the OS instead of a seperate program like Safari.

4) Programs can be downloaded, installed and executed without your knowledge by default.

5) The registry.

Hehe, #3 and 4 are solved by Mozilla Firebird and Spybot: Search And Destroy (which I installed right at the very beginning alongside with Windows XP).

If you don't use IE, you close off pretty much all the security leaks. Oh and of course i ran DCOMbobulator (closes DCOM).

Now here's probably the only reason i will respond to this thread. The "redraw" that MOST Mac users complain about is from either an old video driver or simply a bad installation.

*For example. I'm running a system (take a look at my sig). Decently fast...8500 is pretty fast as well. Well, one time in the past i was updating my Catalyst Drivers...After updating to 3.8, i realized that the screen was redrawing INCREDIBLY slow (running 2.23ghz AMD is basically 2.8-2.9 P4). I then ran "dxdiag" (in other words Direct X Diagnostics).

I realized DirectDraw Acceleration was DISABLED (in the Display Tab). And thus the reason fro the slowness--i installed 3.9 right after, and that problem went away.

*example #2. I was helping a friend install their Barton 2800+ Nforce2 HP Box (yes, HP surprisingly makes these things). Well it was slow as hell upon the first bootup. Quickly checking dxdiag revealed the SAME problem. Solution? Install the latest All-In-One Nvidia driver package (in this case, the Nforce2 board was an IGP, or in other words using integrated Graphics). That's why the all-in-one driver addressed this problem. The newer driver worked with DirectX--thus with DirectDraw Acceleration enabled, smooth as a baby.

*concerning the "format at the beginning of each semester"--ask how many of those people use IE? These people probably do not use SpyBot to close down all Active X security holes/cookies that lead to the security compromises that IE leaves at DEFAULT! (heck i'll never use IE unless a specific web page demands it--aka School related/HW/etc.)

Using Mozilla Firebird AND SpyBot means next to 0 spyware, and in the windows environment that is quite a rare thing.

I have used my computer for nearly 10 months now--and with those two programs alone, i have cut the frustration of dealing with popups/activex/spyware/registry problems CONSIDERABLY. Find the number of eople who use these two programs that have to reformat--that percentage is probably 80-90% less than the majority...alas we are in the minority...

(ending note: I have convinced 4 of my friends to switch to Mozilla Firebird which is great ;) )

[Westside guy]

Following up Mav451: I agree (almost) completely. We have to have a Windows box at home because my wife's sewing software is Windows-only. Well, it's also for games. :D I just made sure that I set her and my daughter up with Mozilla Firebird; showed them how to use tabs and do image blocking - and they love it.

The other BIG item, that Mav451 seems to have missed, is to give users a mail program other than Outlook. Seriously, Outlook + IE have probably been responsible for 85% of the huge honkin' holes in Windows. Well okay, we won't talk about Slammer and DCOM and ... ;) - but those didn't hit us at home since we've got everything behind a firewalling D-Link 4-port router.

I still have a lot of gripes with Windows - heck that's why I'm using a Powerbook. :) But with some common sense you can have a reasonably secure Windows system.

Edit: Decided to add "almost" in the first paragraph. :rolleyes:

[Mav451]

YEAH! I can't believe I forgot the mail part.

Fact is, I believe a few weeks ago, the supposedly "safer" email application Eudora, was found to have its OWN security problems.

Well...i'm still using Outlook for my school's mail--fortunately my school has developed a web-based alternative to using Outlook. (Umail or something along those lines). Additionally, I can route mail from the Outlook account to a yahoo one (not sure if this makes it any safer...probably not).

But--at least I'm not relying on Outlook.

[iMeowbot]

Originally posted by Mav451
Fact is, I believe a few weeks ago, the supposedly "safer" email application Eudora, was found to have its OWN security problems.

Yeah, it's already been a few months though =) There was a buffer overflow problem with long attachment suggested names, and a related spoofing possibility.

In fairness to Qualcomm, the spoofing problem was still caught internally by Eudora and (unless the user went in and tuned off the feature) it would issue appropriately scary warnings about executable attachments, and programs on virtually every platform have been plagued with C string disease.

[anubis]

Keeping the windows updates and virus definitions up-to-date is a full time job. It's just a constant struggle to keep an win XP box up-to-date, secured, virus-free, and "legal" on my university's network. EEgad man, my university would save MILLIONS in payroll and infrastructure upgrade costs if they switched to macs!

[Mav451]

Originally posted by iMeowbot
Yeah, it's already been a few months though =) There was a buffer overflow problem with long attachment suggested names, and a related spoofing possibility.

In fairness to Qualcomm, the spoofing problem was still caught internally by Eudora and (unless the user went in and tuned off the feature) it would issue appropriately scary warnings about executable attachments, and programs on virtually every platform have been plagued with C string disease.

Oops, my mistake. It was something that i pulled from my memory (or I read it somewhere). Didn't know it had already been months.

[matthew24]

After reading this thread, MS could come up with a decent OS!

[wrldwzrd89]

PowerPoint for Windows has a most annoying bug that is related to Windows itself (including Windows XP) so I thought I'd mention it here. Other applications that can be switched into and out of full-screen mode sometimes do this too (except IE and Mozilla). Going into full screen works just fine. However, when I come out of full screen, especially if the screen resolution changes at the same time, the ENTIRE Windows interface may become completely black and I can no longer see where I'm clicking. The easiest fix is to press F5 to force a refresh, then hide and unhide the taskbar to refresh it as well (this only works in the main interface). It's a royal pain, but also something I've learned to live with.

[Sabenth]

not read the whole thread but heres my top 5:D


1 Popups
2 thos popups of the bubbles
3 Network card droping out
4 huge updates
5 icons chaning
6 the help things what use are they really

i know i said 5 but number 6 is a bonus.

one other thing that gets me is the backup thing for home why do i have to install it from the cd some one know that..

[patrick0brien]

-OS slowdown due to registry haystacking.

I can't believe I forgot that one until now...

[johnnyjibbs]

Originally posted by rueyeet
Why, oh why, is there STILL no pop-up blocking in Internet Explorer? Every other web-browser out there has this, already!
This is supposedly coming in service pack 2 (due Summer I think). Apparently it gives plenty of options (probably way more wizards and stuff as well!)

The problem is, once IE gets pop-up blocking, suddenly the amount of people viewing internet pop-up ads will go from 95% to 0 and they'll have to come up with more banner ads instead :(

[yamabushi]

There are a lot of things I hate about XP but the worst is probably that I have to teach people how to use it and other versions of Windows properly. When I do it usually takes a bit of time and is often repeated when the next problem occurs. I have done this for Mac users as well but it happens much less often. This makes XP and Windows in general a real waste of time for me.

[neoserver]

I ABSOLUTLEY hate the desktop clean up feature that XP has. Every 30days, i get this bubble saying that i have unused items on my desktop. it wants to move them into a folder. I put the shortcut there. I want it there. I don't need my computer telling me that my desktop is messy.. its like having a mom telling you to clean your room.. so very annoying

[Mav451]

You can disable that feature.

Here's how:
1. Right-Click Desktop, click Properties.
2. Go to Desktop Tab. Click Customize Desktop.
3. Uncheck Run Desktop Cleanup Wizard every x number of days. Mine says every 60 days...perhaps b/c you are using XP Home?

Nonetheless many of these "features" I have disabled.

I wonder why XP starts them as DEFAULT when they are actually not required...like Windows Update (I also have that disabled).

I have a registry entry that disables alot of these things -- I believe a few game sites used to post it up for better performance/less background processes but I find it is also extremely useful, if not necessary, for the everyday user, who 80-90% of the time will not NEED it.

It's called "Game Pro All Start", you can find it here:

http://www.blackviper.com/WinXP/registry.htm

Basically, if you're going to build your OWN computer, run this RIGHT AFTER you have installed WinXP Pro (and disabled DCOM/security updates).

You can literally startup XP with only 10-12 services (compared to the typical 23-30 you might see at Best Buy); this also cuts the page file from 150mb to a paltry 50mb.

[Bmode]

It's not a Mac, period, but the thing I think is ridiculous is CD's not mounting on the desktop so that you know it has enganged.

To quote from Steve Jobs from the TV Movie, "The Pirates of Silicon Valley",

"...ours is better..."

God I can only hope that he actually said that to Bill Gates, because it is so true!

[hulugu]

Originally posted by Mav451
You can disable that feature....Nonetheless many of these "features" I have disabled....I wonder why XP starts them as DEFAULT when they are actually not required...like Windows Update (I also have that disabled).

You've posted at least twice and each time you mention a 'feature' that you have found a way to disable or remove, you also mention removing IE and Outlook.
And that's what sucks about Windows XP, the computer comes with all sorts of screwed up features that get in your way, security flaws, and you need several extra programs just to make the computer work properly.
Furthermore, what happens when one of these programs (not necessarily the ones you described above, but maybe something like ZoneAlarm) screws up something in Windows, or the registry gets hosed after 6 months.
The basic PC is a good machine, but with that disaster of an OS it's hard to tell.

[Mav451]

Hey that's an interesting point--but that is the Mac OS way of doing it.

The thing is rite now you can check it through My Computer, under "Devices with Removable Storage". If it simply says "CD Drive" instead of New Disc or whatever then you know there's nothing in there.

Not only that, most of the time, an Explorer window will pop up, showing the CD drive's contents a few moments after you insert the CD.

While the "mounted drive" is an interesting way to do it, i don't think it's necessary.

[Mav451]

Originally posted by hulugu
You've posted at least twice and each time you mention a 'feature' that you have found a way to disable or remove, you also mention removing IE and Outlook.
And that's what sucks about Windows XP, the computer comes with all sorts of screwed up features that get in your way, security flaws, and you need several extra programs just to make the computer work properly...

Yep, you hit it on the dot. The need to tweak is not necessary on the Mac. Of course, since i do not have a Mac, i'm already familiar with these things, i guess out of necessity--if any of you guys HAVE to use a PC (home or work), you know who to ask fer help :)

[Spock]

What about IE bieng intergrated in windows so much that my google toolbar is in every open folder I hate that can Microsoft buid an OS that is not Based on IE or DOS?

[Mav451]

haha that's why i didn't install Google Toolbar...

if only Mozilla wuz integrated into XP...that'd be a heck of a lot more secure.

[Dippo]

The Registry
This is the worst thing ever created for a computer. I don't even think the people who wrote the registry understand it. I have tried over the years to understand the logic behind it, but I have failed.

Settings
There are probably 1000 different settings that each have to be reached a 100 different ways. Why can't all settings be set in the control panel, that's what it's there for isn't it??

[Dippo]

It takes a whole lot of work to keep Windows XP in good operating condition.

I spent a week setting up Windows XP with every setting exactly as I wanted, I installed my other software and made a copy of my partition. I then recopy this partition over every week to keep my windows "fresh".

I hate updates because I have to reinstall everything from scratch.

[Mav451]

Dang dude. If it takes you an entire week to set up Windows XP, then seriously, consider the time you spend working on that as opposed to getting a Mac for yourself.

I have installed (physically) an AMD box along with formatting and settings and s/w installations (Office 2k3, Photoshop, games, etc.) all in about a day's work. I don't understand how it can take an entire week to setup.

I scan for spyware now and then, defrag, and get the usual video card updates every several months (or less, depending on ATi's driver development cycle).

I don't see the need to replace your partition with a new one every week. Assuming you aren't constantly installing useless "CNET/Download.com" utilities, your registry should be clean.

If the programs you DO install are finicky, clean it up with JV16 PowerTools (again, doesn't take more than a few minutes to search and find obsolete registry strings--it will scan it for you).

[patrick0brien]

Originally posted by Mav451
JV16 PowerTools

-Mav451

Sounds like something I could use (regedit makes me nervous).

Where and how much?

[wrldwzrd89]

If any of you want this utility, it can be found at JV16.org (http://www.jv16.org/) and can be purchased for $29.95.

[Mav451]

hehe, i think mine is probably an older version (like May-June of 2003)...which is why i didn't have to pay for it.

I just checked, i have version 1.3 (the last version that was free, if you can't find it I can still send it for those who want to try it out).

Obviously if you want the newer one (with updates) you should get 1.4...

Now that i actually have a checking account, i think i might seriously consider purchasing it.

[jxyama]

all the complaints about the windows wizard made me think of this...

wizard is basically window's way of saying "you can ask me to do any task you want as long as i'm allowed to give you only options i know how to handle properly."

[Prom1]

Mav451, can you please email me JV16 PowerTools the free version 1.3 that you got please as unless AdAware does the same thing I think that I'll be needing it.

OK I've owned many PC systems including my current & only one a Dell 2.0Ghz P4 400Mhz system bus.

I've got several points but please before you bash me; know this, I work mostly as an A/P, A/R, administrative clerk by profession, and soon as technical support for T-Mobile I hope.

1) As many in the know have mentioned is the Registery!!!! This is more dangerous than Trojans or the typical virus ; to me at least. To many uninstalls from apps that just didn't work (my girlfriend with Sims ad-ons from IRC and official websites that truely are bugos).

2) The Registry takes it again. This time when I had Win200Pro running it was flawless for the most part, yet when I upgrade to WinXP Pro I 've got double user folders including Administrator which the originals from Win2K I couldn't browse anymore - this comming from the gorilla itself. Now a full HDD format and onto a clean XP Pro.

3) Going to sites that spoof to hide true links and pop-ups but its solve with Firebird UNLESS I must goto my banks site (Canadian, only scotiabank works). I want ALL SITES to follow WC3 standards!!

4) my last and biggest gripe VIDEO drivers for an imbedded video chip supplied both from Intel & Dell on the Dell driver CD. Why in hell when I do a full format and start to detect hardware does it give me the lowest 640*320 resolution?? THis is XP Pro!! Now when I install the driver I must of course reboot, but when I do I get a blurry screen thats resolution/Hz/color bit are ALL to high, HIGHER than my screen or video chip will support (No DVI or ADC connection just the old analog standard here)!!

I have to remember how many tabs, right arrow key presses up down arrow key presses I must do from first pressing the MS Start key on my keyboard to get back to my 800*600 screen resolution at 60Hz and and 16-bit color!! ONE KEY Press off and I get soOOOoo cursive and fustrated that my family is afraid of me for hours!!!!

Another reason I'm getting a PowerMac in just a few months time and I will never look back UNLESS I see a better easier more pleasant and FUN alternative to my digital life dependancies.

5) also did I mention that my USB ports were inactive when I upgraded Win2KPro to WinXP Pro; rediculous & propostrous!:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[grapes911]

As a mac user I am embarrassed by many of your comments. Many of you are ignorant. Ok, so windows is inferior to apple, but don't just say you hate something that you don't know about. Many of the things you hate are easily changed or avoided. If you cant use windows properly, it is not necessarily Mircosoft's fault. Yea, they can improve things, but learn what is there. People want to be able to change their settings, then complain when there are too many settings to change. And don't complain about the registry. Learn how to use it to your advantage.

Sorry to sound mean or like I'm defending MS or something else, but I'm a comp sci major who uses many different os' for different tasks. Solaris, Windows, OS X, Linux. They all are good for certain things. Just because they don't fit your style doesn't make them bad or useless. Going along the same lines as what many of you said, I could make just as big of a list for osx. But I accept apple for what they give me. Just as I accept MS for what the give me. If every os adapted, they'd all be the same. What would be the point of that?

[jxyama]

Originally posted by grapes911
As a mac user I am embarrassed by many of your comments. Many of you are ignorant. Ok, so windows is inferior to apple, but don't just say you hate something that you don't know about. Many of the things you hate are easily changed or avoided. If you cant use windows properly, it is not necessarily Mircosoft's fault. Yea, they can improve things, but learn what is there. People want to be able to change their settings, then complain when there are too many settings to change. And don't complain about the registry. Learn how to use it to your advantage.

Sorry to sound mean or like I'm defending MS or something else, but I'm a comp sci major who uses many different os' for different tasks. Solaris, Windows, OS X, Linux. They all are good for certain things. Just because they don't fit your style doesn't make them bad or useless. Going along the same lines as what many of you said, I could make just as big of a list for osx. But I accept apple for what they give me. Just as I accept MS for what the give me. If every os adapted, they'd all be the same. What would be the point of that?

um, "learn how to use the registry??" what the heck does that mean? why do we have to pay for an OS that needs OUR help to keep itself from being corrupted?

that's why we don't like registry. because we have to tip toe around it and "learn" how to use it. notice that this thread is about what we don't like about XP - and we don't like that registry needs our help. what's ignorant about this? :rolleyes:

if we had a thread about what we don't like about quantum physics and some of us posted that we don't like quantum physics because it's too abstract and difficult to understand, are you going to tell those people that you shouldn't say you don't like something because you are not smart enough?

[Versello]

Originally posted by grapes911
Sorry to sound mean or like I'm defending MS or something else, but I'm a comp sci major who uses many different os' for different tasks. Solaris, Windows, OS X, Linux. They all are good for certain things. Just because they don't fit your style doesn't make them bad or useless. Going along the same lines as what many of you said, I could make just as big of a list for osx. But I accept apple for what they give me. Just as I accept MS for what the give me. If every os adapted, they'd all be the same. What would be the point of that?

Well said.

[hulugu]

Originally posted by grapes911
As a mac user I am embarrassed by many of your comments. Many of you are ignorant. Ok, so windows is inferior to apple, but don't just say you hate something that you don't know about. Many of the things you hate are easily changed or avoided. If you cant use windows properly, it is not necessarily Mircosoft's fault. Yea, they can improve things, but learn what is there. People want to be able to change their settings, then complain when there are too many settings to change. And don't complain about the registry. Learn how to use it to your advantage.

Sorry to sound mean or like I'm defending MS or something else, but I'm a comp sci major who uses many different os' for different tasks. Solaris, Windows, OS X, Linux. They all are good for certain things. Just because they don't fit your style doesn't make them bad or useless. Going along the same lines as what many of you said, I could make just as big of a list for osx. But I accept apple for what they give me. Just as I accept MS for what the give me. If every os adapted, they'd all be the same. What would be the point of that?

Oh you're a computer science major, excuse me while I go hang my hat. First, and someone has already mentioned this, this thread is about stuff we don't like about Windows XP.
Second, many of the flaws others have pointed out are valid flaws that affect Windows and Windows XP that are bad design. I agree that Windows can even be—shudder—useful for certain tasks, but it still exhibits serious flaws for the average user. You are a power user who has enough experience to deal with the daily/weekly/monthly maintainence tasks that Windows requires to run.
I think software updates and the occassional disk utility are something every user should do, but to tread lightly around the registry, worry constantly about anti-virus, and have several different places for settings, not to mention the several annoying variations of clippy sucks. The fact that there are a dozen aftermarket apps, at least, to turn these off just indicates how badly Windows is designed.
Solaris, Red Hat, and OSX manage to work without all the above, so why can't Windows XP?

[Mord]

the grapes 911 guy totaly screwed his point up in the fact that his post indicates you need a degree in computer science to get a useable os.

as a 15 year old who likes to fiddle with the inerds of there os, osx rules in that respect

can anyone acctually think of somthing that is good in windows seriously? (excluding games)


sorry for changeing the direction of the thread but all these windows guys are always defending it windows, they may have good reasons i dont know

lets hear them

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by Westside guy

Okay on #2 I am being more serious (although I honestly do hate those clown colors!). This is not specific to XP, but I hate the way Microsoft sacrifices OS security for the sake of leveraging their monopoly into other areas (they've done a good job of spinning this into "security vs. features", but in reality it's got little to do with features!). The DCOM bug is the biggest glaring example of this. No one other than Microsoft wanted DCOM, but MS didn't want to go with industry-preferred CORBA - so they come up with DCOM, enable it by default (even though it's not used by most anyone) and BLAM!

Another example, the SQL-slammer stuff - it's bad enough to include a simplified version of MS-SQL in desktop products, but why leave the SQL port open on them as well?

And last but not least... can you say "ActiveX"? And why the heck is IE hooked into the operating system itself? (yes, that's a rhetorical question)

I might suggest taking a look at Windows XP Service Pack 2. Here is what they have planned for SP2:

Windows XP Service Pack 2 Beta first look (http://www.arstechnica.com/wankerdesk/04q1/sp2-beta-1.html)

Under normal circumstances you wouldn't give a crap about reviewing a service pack. This one does enough to enhance security that it's worth a read.

[hulugu]

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
I might suggest taking a look at Windows XP Service Pack 2. Here is what they have planned for SP2:

Windows XP Service Pack 2 Beta first look (http://www.arstechnica.com/wankerdesk/04q1/sp2-beta-1.html)

Under normal circumstances you wouldn't give a crap about reviewing a service pack. This one does enough to enhance security that it's worth a read.

Well, the interface still stinks, and I don't think the general computer user will figure out the firewall, but on the whole this looks like a good update to Windows. Apple needs to add into its Software Update the ability to pause and restart downloads, but otherwise Windows is just adding into XP things Jaguar could do.
I'm glad they have tried to lock down the RBC call and HTML preview, but I noticed the system to keep extensions from running only works on AMD's 64-bit chip, and that would stop things like MyDoom from running rampant.
It appears as if old Bismark is finally turning to broadsides.

[stoid]

I don't know first hand at this, but one of my Windows eXPerienced friends told me that type certain 'special' characters with Windows is like Alt-(three digit code). Whereas on the Mac OS, it's option-(letter that is generally related to the 'special' character). Seems like that could be a real pain in the ass!

[Powerbook G5]

The character map on PCs isn't too bad and you tend to remember the codes to your frequently used characters.

[Counterfit]

Thing is, you have to figure out what they are first. Kind of hard when alt + 1 + 4 + 6* = ? (option + d)



*I have no idea offhand what character that really maps out.

[Powerbook G5]

All you do is open Character Map. When you mouse over the character you want, a little pop up tells you what combination will obtain that particular character.

[Counterfit]

Eh? Is that in 2000? Because if it is, finding the references on Google was easier.

[Mav451]

Originally posted by Prom1
Mav451, can you please email me JV16 PowerTools the free version 1.3 that you got please as unless AdAware does the same thing I think that I'll be needing it.

OK I've owned many PC systems including my current & only one a Dell 2.0Ghz P4 400Mhz system bus.

I've got several points but please before you bash me; know this, I work mostly as an A/P, A/R, administrative clerk by profession, and soon as technical support for T-Mobile I hope.

1) As many in the know have mentioned is the Registery!!!! This is more dangerous than Trojans or the typical virus ; to me at least. To many uninstalls from apps that just didn't work (my girlfriend with Sims ad-ons from IRC and official websites that truely are bugos).

2) The Registry takes it again. This time when I had Win200Pro running it was flawless for the most part, yet when I upgrade to WinXP Pro I 've got double user folders including Administrator which the originals from Win2K I couldn't browse anymore - this comming from the gorilla itself. Now a full HDD format and onto a clean XP Pro.

3) Going to sites that spoof to hide true links and pop-ups but its solve with Firebird UNLESS I must goto my banks site (Canadian, only scotiabank works). I want ALL SITES to follow WC3 standards!!

4) my last and biggest gripe VIDEO drivers for an imbedded video chip supplied both from Intel & Dell on the Dell driver CD. Why in hell when I do a full format and start to detect hardware does it give me the lowest 640*320 resolution?? THis is XP Pro!! Now when I install the driver I must of course reboot, but when I do I get a blurry screen thats resolution/Hz/color bit are ALL to high, HIGHER than my screen or video chip will support (No DVI or ADC connection just the old analog standard here)!!

I have to remember how many tabs, right arrow key presses up down arrow key presses I must do from first pressing the MS Start key on my keyboard to get back to my 800*600 screen resolution at 60Hz and and 16-bit color!! ONE KEY Press off and I get soOOOoo cursive and fustrated that my family is afraid of me for hours!!!!

Another reason I'm getting a PowerMac in just a few months time and I will never look back UNLESS I see a better easier more pleasant and FUN alternative to my digital life dependancies.

5) also did I mention that my USB ports were inactive when I upgraded Win2KPro to WinXP Pro; rediculous & propostrous!:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

heh, slow down sir, one a time.

#1: The fault of the USB ports is entirely on the Dell box. This is b/c they were probably disabled in the BIOS. I doubt anything of it has anything to do with WinXP

Which brings me to my next point.

#2: Never, in my right mind, with M$oft software, ever just upgrade from 98 >> 2k, or 2k >> XP Pro ( i thought 98 to 2k wuz worse). Too many areas that the installation could go wrong--motherboard drivers going crazy for one is simple something I do not have time for.

#3: Formating for this is not only easier, but also faster. Moving motherboards? Format (formatting does not take more than an hour or so, installation another hour or so). Those 2 hours are more well-spent than spending days/nights trying to troubleshoot the upgrade process, when a clean one would have been DONE and OVER with.

#4: It is EXTREMELY dangerous to just mindlessly d/l games over IRC or the internet when you know they are bogus--and yet you continued to let her do so when you knew the consequences? Many games/cracks out there will hide trojans in the exes...please beware. Careless install/uninstalling of these "games" will clog your registry if its done several times a day.

#5: Your problems in 2 are all solved with a clean format. If it seems like i'm repeating myself over clean format (do not upgrade) speech, that's because i am stressing how important it is.

#6: I really have no idea what you are talking about with your desktop resolution. I have never dealt with that problem using my stand alone Radeon 8500...you mention DVI...b/c you have an LCD perhaps?

[grapes911]

Many of you did not get what i was trying to say. I take the blame for not explaining well.

First, I was saying i was a comp sci major as why i use xp. If I wasn't, i'd probably never use it except for games.

Sencond, the registry does not need your help, except to not install stupid stuff. I use the registry to do many tweeks instread of getting 3rd party software. There are many things in there that cannot be done otherwise. The registry is supposed to take some time to learn. That way people who don't konw if well won't play with it. You can really screw up your pc if you don't know what you are doing. Think of it as the terminal in os x. It takes some time to learn, but so much more can be done.

And I'm in no way a "windows guy." I love os x and gentoo (on my pc). I think everyone should have a mac.

The real reason I wrote my post was to get accross the point that almost everything that people said they don't like has use. It just not might be useful for them or they don't see its use.

[linky]

I’m a PC user who's been seriously considering picking up a powerbook for some time now (saving up is so very painful)

Threads like this make me wonder if it's really the right thing for me to do,

People always talk about how easy macOS is, how it never crashes and how it's faster, and this really appeals to me, I would want nothing more then to be able to play with a new OS, new hardware, new features, a whole new platform...

However

Everyone here seems to point out lots of problems with windowsXP and PC's in general - the vast majority of them however are simple 2 second fixes or the result of user error, this scares me because I see people bashing OSX on pc forums because they have the same types of problems on the Mac side of things, about how they couldn’t figure out how to boot off a cd, or how the OS gave them some simple error that they couldn’t figure out so they just threw their hands in the air and said "MACS SUCK!"

I start to worry that all of the great things about Mac’s may simply be 90% ignorance (no offense anyone)

Yes, you can buy your Mac and plug it in and it just works, and maybe that's where the allure is, maybe people like it being just that easy, and maybe that's why everyone thinks Mac’s are so stable - you don’t really have to do any research, you just plug it in and turn it on, for sure this is a better platform for the average person, but for a hardcore geek that loves to build, upgrade, mod, overclock everything I see maybe I will be let down by macOS :(

my PC (AMD 2500+ @ 3400+) and all of the systems I’ve built before it have NEVER given me a problem, I’ve never had hardware compatibility issues because I do tons of homework before I buy anything, I have never had a problem with windows crashing or locking up, or bluescreening, because I know how to run my system, i've never run antivirus software and I have never had a virus... sure it's quite a bit more "work" then just plugging it in and turning it on, but I like to know about every part inside my box, and what every file does, I know that if there is a problem it’s because somewhere, even indirectly I had done something wrong. to me windowsXP is not about babysitting the system it's about having controle over everything i do.

So is the “simplicity” that is involved with a Mac really what makes it so great? Will someone that does not mind putting forth the time and effort to learn as much as he can about what he’s working with see a benefit with macOS? Did most of you switch because you where just sick of PC’s and windows and just wanted less of a headache every time you used your computer? Is OSX really GREAT or is windowsXP just really really bad to most people here?

Thanks for the input everyone, I read these forums religiously as I save up, absorbing as much info as I can =) – this is not a mac bash by any means, it’s more of a call for help

[jxyama]

Originally posted by grapes911
Second, the registry does not need your help, except to not install stupid stuff.

define "stupid stuff" please. and you can't say "registry does not need your help" and follow that up with "except." so it does need my help afterall.

again, why is it my responsibility to know what "stupid stuff" is? shouldn't OS be robust enough that "stupid stuff" won't compromise it?

can i install similar "stupid stuff" on OS X and not mess up the system?

anyway, this is one of the reasons why i don't like windows - XP is definitely better than 9x but once bitten twice shy. windows better EARN my confidence back - because i am simply not willing to give them a second look because the first was just awful.

[hulugu]

Originally posted by linky
I’m a PC user who's been seriously considering picking up a powerbook for some time now...Threads like this make me wonder if it's really the right thing for me to do...People always talk about how easy macOS is, how it never crashes and how it's faster, and this really appeals to me, I would want nothing more then to be able to play with a new OS, new hardware, new features, a whole new platform...
Everyone here seems to point out lots of problems with windowsXP and PC's in general - the vast majority of them however are simple 2 second fixes or the result of user error... start to worry that all of the great things about Mac’s may simply be 90% ignorance (no offense anyone)...Yes, you can buy your Mac and plug it in and it just works, and maybe that's where the allure is, maybe people like it being just that easy, and maybe that's why everyone thinks Mac’s are so stable - you don’t really have to do any research, you just plug it in and turn it on, for sure this is a better platform for the average person, but for a hardcore geek that loves to build, upgrade, mod, overclock everything I see maybe I will be let down by macOS....i've never run antivirus software and I have never had a virus... sure it's quite a bit more "work" then just plugging it in and turning it on, but I like to know about every part inside my box, and what every file does, I know that if there is a problem it’s because somewhere, even indirectly I had done something wrong. to me windowsXP is not about babysitting the system it's about having controle over everything i do.

First, I have been a long term Mac user, however I also use a Windows 2K and XP box at work as well as a Red Hat box. I think my experience, while not as wide as others, at least does cover most computer users.
Here's the deal, the MacOS is based on Darwin which is based on UNIX, the hard-core mainframe code that runs the really important stuff (like NASA). MacOS is a GUI on top of that really powerful system and as such it fits the best of both words. Hooking a camera up, to use one of the 'Switcher' commercial examples, should be a matter of plugging the USB cable into the Mac. No drivers, no downloads, no error messages that cannot be devined but by the people who wrote the code. However, if you want to enable SSH, Apache, use Perl, Compile code using X11, create a website using Dreamweaver, connect to a network, or built your own. Create a small cluster computing network, etc. You can also do this.
My point is, at least for me, my Mac makes things that should be easy, easy and things that should be hard easy. The Mac is an M1 tank you granny could drive, its a particle accelerator a teenager could use.
My problem with Windows is the registry (I have other problems too, such as security, the ugly interface, etc.) which entails me to fiddle with it because when I hooked up a scanner Adobe Acrobat stopped working properly.:rolleyes:
My Mac used the scanner and everything continued to work, but if I want to going into the CLIE (known as Terminal) I can make the machine do some very interesting things.
Apple's machines can be used as simple word processors or as all-in-one DV editing suites, they can be used with BLAST to work on cancer research, and 2,100 G5s created the 3rd fastest Supercomputer on the planet.
As for security problems, I can say that you will be even safer than you are now, and frankly you've been lucky with the viruses, MSBlast with the RBC call could have become a problem I would say you've dodged a bullet, however I would also note that these attacks are getting worse each year. One can argue whether this is because of Microsoft's presence in the market or because of bad coding, and they can also argue that the Mac is safer because they are rare, but either way right now every Mac user is safer than the average Windows user.
Just think, instead of spending all that time researching for parts, fiddling with the registry, and downloading update after update you could make a movie using iMovie, or send pictures to friends and family using iPhoto, or go read a book while an iTunes playlist pumps out your favorite 50 songs in random order. Or set up a cluster using Xgrid using all the Macs in your house.
With every exposure to Windows I find my Mac that much better.

[Prom1]

Mav451, THank you very much for your post, seriously.

I should've known better but hey my girlfriend is still learning about using the computer, kinda like a child's new toy. She's better at surfing when it comes to searches and her editing documents is superior to mine, but I'd liek to encourage her not hinder her.

Yes indeed the BIOS was setup to allow USB to work including emulation; had no idea what exactly that meant to I toggled it on and off for individual Win2K to XP PRo upgrades and reboots to no avail on solving the situation. Oh yeah mister computer science major grapes911 explain to my why this happens???? All drivers of note for USB and other Intel chipsets were up to date as of time of this upgrade : either from my Dell support/driver CD, Microsoft update/driver update, and from INtel themselves and STILL nothing solved the problem.

Yes I am positive the USB ports work, how? I did format and do a clean install of WinXP Pro and it just decided to work!!!!!

Grapes911 I'm glad you selected your career path because I personally don't want to fix my computer on a weekly basis. The registry; I agree that its difficult to figure out for a reason, but I feel it shouldn't be as archane as it is to deter me to find out why strange this happen.

examples. I've installed a retail version of SIMS on my computer for my girlfriend after a clean boot to remove the bootleg version. And when I remove it I told it to completely remove all files associated with it. Given that some files are shared with the system; the program STILL did NOT remove saved game files, game folder in program files, nor various components that the game itself needs to be played. What on Earth am I going to need these useless files for when I've already UN-installed this game??? This to me, an experienced user not a novice/beginner/ yet almost a poweruser on Windows, is completely stupid! Furthermore using IE to surf and have my kids play java or Flash/Shockwave games within the browser and internet settings to "Medium" (only to allow the site to update the window games) still somehow allows for pop ups and other crap to secretly install onto our computer, and under LIMITED USER login, not me the administrator!! I know only when I run AdAware to remove these strange components (data mining apps, and my definition of crap: those highlighted text on ANY site that isn't part of thats sites makeup telling me AOL has USB (underlined) ports on sale or site A/B/C has them). I've almost got Mozilla working properly for my kids to play these online Flash/Java games on sites like Nickelodeon.com or Powerpuffgirls.com etc.

I bought my computer to do my work, practice my office skills, entertain my family and update theirs, and to surf the internet for all of the above and for research. I shouldn't have to have X-Ray vision to prevent datamining on my system with a MS product. When I remove an application I expect all of it to be removed when I tell it to do so-> especially if this applications company has worked closely with Microsoft to get it tested and to the market on the world's most heavily used OS. From all that I've experienced using Windows OS' its worse then telling my head-strong son to go to bed; he's got nuff excuses and arguements not to go when I try getting him too!;) .

Linky mentioned something along the lines of ignorance of not knowing how to use their computer to their full potential. I've used Mac OS X (10.1.5) and that OS does things, more things properly than XP Pro SP1. When you remove a program drag and drop it and its GONE, no remnants left in the registry!! I'm a Bookkeeper/Administrative Clerk by trade and a PDA/Cellphone enthusiast. I don't want a degree in computer science to use my computer properly and get it working properly the way "I" or my "family" uses it, nor should I have to!!!!
:p

Most people here know what I'm talking about because they've experienced WinXP and Mac OS X. lastly I think its more a geek/user mentality on the two different OS. I saw an Apple commercial that highlighted it best, the one about the presentation. This dude is try to do a presentation for the suits using a windows computer and it goes haywire. He apologizes and states he's just updated to the new OS and it should work. The crowd unapologetically starts blurting out solutions for him to get his computer working again for the presentation; and with each suggestion there is a denial that the previous one will work. Sorry, I've been there done that. Sure we all need help at computers but it shouldn't be for removing software and getting ports to work properly when they previously did.

Cheers

[linky]

hulugu, i thank you for the reply - in my original post i failed to even mention that i am a big *nix guy, i run both freeBSD and slackware, bsd on the servers and slack on my play machine

my concern now is that i actually enjoy doing the technical stuff, i very rarely have a problem that can not be solved with a quick download or tweek, as far as the virus's go i dont really concider myself lucky, i consider myself prepaired, i do not need to run antivirus software because i dont open notavirus.exe when one pops up in my email, I dont have to worry about blaster because if i dont specificly set the cisco to foward a port to me i never see it

these are the kind of things do not bother me at all, the only problems i have ever had with software is when i'm dealing with either "in home" software that was writen for a corporation or platform that i am trying to adapt, or when i deal with "cheap" software that's just writen poorly :\

I think i really need to try it for myself, i've played with my friends powerbooks but they where old/slow - my real concern at this point is that i am going to spend close to 3,000$ on a powerbook and i worry it wont be powerfull enough for me (i'm spoiled) :D

[hulugu]

Originally posted by linky
hulugu, i thank you for the reply - in my original post i failed to even mention that i am a big *nix guy, i run both freeBSD and slackware, bsd on the servers and slack on my play machine...as far as the virus's go i dont really concider myself lucky, i consider myself prepaired, i do not need to run antivirus software because i dont open notavirus.exe when one pops up in my email, I dont have to worry about blaster because if i dont specificly set the cisco to foward a port to me i never see it...I think i really need to try it for myself, i've played with my friends powerbooks but they where old/slow - my real concern at this point is that i am going to spend close to 3,000$ on a powerbook and i worry it wont be powerfull enough for me (i'm spoiled) :D

If you're a *nix guy you'll freaking love OSX. My sysadmin borrowed an old Powerbook (333mhz G3) and after a week he bought it from me, stuck a 500mhz Sonnet card, a new screen (some jackass had mailed it back from Europe in a padded envelope) and new drive. Now he brings it to work every day and fiddles with it constantly.
And the virus thing, we did really well until one of the guys decided to hook his petri-dish of a laptop to the network, so while you can do everything right, someone else is there to find the one thing you didn't think of. But, I understand your point.
I would suggest, based on my sysadmin's experience, that find an older Mac on eBay or Smalldog, Powermax, etc. and play with it, play with the network tools and Terminal, plus you can run X11 which you should really dig. If you don't like it sell it back with the knowledge of another platform, and if you do Welcome to Macintosh.
I like my Mac better and I think Windows has serious flaws in its inherent design that make it difficult for the average user, but it can work and the hardware for PCs is very cheap and very fast. I only wish Moto and IBM had kept up with Intel, I think we'd be playing a very different game now.

[bannedagain]

Originally posted by Mav451
Dang dude. If it takes you an entire week to set up Windows XP, then seriously, consider the time you spend working on that as opposed to getting a Mac for yourself.

I have installed (physically) an AMD box along with formatting and settings and s/w installations (Office 2k3, Photoshop, games, etc.) all in about a day's work. I don't understand how it can take an entire week to setup.

I scan for spyware now and then, defrag, and get the usual video card updates every several months (or less, depending on ATi's driver development cycle).

I don't see the need to replace your partition with a new one every week. Assuming you aren't constantly installing useless "CNET/Download.com" utilities, your registry should be clean.

If the programs you DO install are finicky, clean it up with JV16 PowerTools (again, doesn't take more than a few minutes to search and find obsolete registry strings--it will scan it for you).

Agree totally:
It's around 6 hours from parts to a fully functioning (all updates) and online game worthy PC. Well that's for me, the only real time consuming aspect of building the system is downloading all the updates, and then installing all the programs desired buy the customer. And of course this varies.

[Mav451]

heh, another home builder then eh?

Don't see too many of us (only half of my friends can), and on MacRumors, self-built PCs are an extreme rarity.

I mean, hey, if that guy was here in MD i could help him personally, but he isn't.

I have security updates//DCombobulator//registry tweaks on one CD, Applications and mobo/vid/sound drvers on 2 other cds. With these 3 cds on hand, it doesn't take long to set up a computer.

[Powerbook G5]

Originally posted by linky
hulugu, i thank you for the reply - in my original post i failed to even mention that i am a big *nix guy, i run both freeBSD and slackware, bsd on the servers and slack on my play machine

my concern now is that i actually enjoy doing the technical stuff, i very rarely have a problem that can not be solved with a quick download or tweek, as far as the virus's go i dont really concider myself lucky, i consider myself prepaired, i do not need to run antivirus software because i dont open notavirus.exe when one pops up in my email, I dont have to worry about blaster because if i dont specificly set the cisco to foward a port to me i never see it

these are the kind of things do not bother me at all, the only problems i have ever had with software is when i'm dealing with either "in home" software that was writen for a corporation or platform that i am trying to adapt, or when i deal with "cheap" software that's just writen poorly :\

I think i really need to try it for myself, i've played with my friends powerbooks but they where old/slow - my real concern at this point is that i am going to spend close to 3,000$ on a powerbook and i worry it wont be powerfull enough for me (i'm spoiled) :D

My PowerBook may not have a G5 in it, but it's pretty damn fast. Even on the PC side of things, you won't be finding too many laptops out there that will be a great deal faster.

[linky]

Originally posted by Mav451
heh, another home builder then eh?

Don't see too many of us (only half of my friends can), and on MacRumors, self-built PCs are an extreme rarity.

I mean, hey, if that guy was here in MD i could help him personally, but he isn't.

I have security updates//DCombobulator//registry tweaks on one CD, Applications and mobo/vid/sound drvers on 2 other cds. With these 3 cds on hand, it doesn't take long to set up a computer.

i prefer clean installs of all my drivers as whatever i put on cd seems to go out of date pretty quickly - but i agree, i can recover from a format in just a few hours, running through and trying to remember wich services i need seem to take the most time :P

i'm currently putting together an A64 3200+ @3400+ - gotta vmod the motherboard and find a decent waterblock before i push it any harder :D

[Mav451]

heh you have a point...seems bout the right time to burn me a new set of cds for backup...i still got a spindle to use up b4 i switch over to DVD-R's soon :)

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by linky
i prefer clean installs of all my drivers as whatever i put on cd seems to go out of date pretty quickly - but i agree, i can recover from a format in just a few hours, running through and trying to remember wich services i need seem to take the most time :P



My method of choice, for desktops and laptops, is to split the drive.
60% - C: Primary system partition. (NTFS File system)
40% - D: Secondary partition for Document data storage, software installs, ghost image. (FAT32 File System.)

Once I get the system configured the way I want it and install the base programs that I KNOW won’t be updated for a while. There are certain apps that are pointless to install for a disk image because you will end up updating them anyways after you next redo your system. These programs installer files that aren’t included in the disk image are stored in the D: partition. All data is stored on the D: partion including e-mail, nesgroups, etc.
Once everything is done I boot off of a floppy disk and use Norton Ghost to dump the “image” of the system partition onto the D: FAT32 partition. The system is pretty autonomous. I only need a boot floppy and a Floppy disk drive to get me back up and running again if I, for some reason need to redo my system. I would say from the time I slam the floppy disk into the drive to when I have a fully functioning system is aprox 45 minutes. (Including the 20 minutes it takes to dump the image back onto the drive. Keep in mine this image is about 4 GB compressed down to 2GB and is being dumped from the disk onto the disk so it’s writing back to the drive itself. I’m surprised it only takes 20 minutes.
There is only 1 thing that can scare me when it comes to my computers. Its not viruses, its not worms, its not spam, its not dreaded adware. It’s a failing hard drive. Because in that case I lose my data partition as well and I’m hosed. In every other case I boot from a floppy and I’m up and running in 30 minutes minimum. I’ve scared the living crap out of a friend of mine after I showed him my virus collection (I collect computer viruses. 316 so far.) I ran the dreaded Nimda on my system. Intentionally. The guy though I was insane since I don’t run anti-virus software on my computers other then my home server. OK so I loaded Nimda C variant along with Klez I variant and the always popular and always fun: Loveletter a.k.a lovebug. (Note I give myself read only permissions on my D: drive at that time. I’m a computer masochist, I’m not suicidal. :p :D If nothing else the guy thought I was nuts. So I powered down the computer, inserted my trusty floppy, and reimaged the system partition. All cured. Windows doesn’t scare me anymore as long as you treat it like a ticking time bomb. Eventually something breaks or slows the system down to a crawl. In most cases its easier to redo the system then try and figure out what went wrong. Not always. Going through the system log files has on more then a few ocasions helped me figure out what went wrong. But in most cases redoing the computer is the best, fastest method.

[Kiwi-Todd]

In my limited experience with XP -(trying to install new FW card, networking, installing itunes on my dad's and brother's Peecees).

The biggest niggle is the system's lack of 'awareness' - for want of a better term.

By this I mean the OS is not very aware of the hardware in the box - as in Mac. I've had problems locating drivers, locating cards, even locating cd-rom drives.

Wacky network browsing (not that Panther is all that great in my opinion).

Yes those crappy wizards that go nowhere are painful.

The neccessity to reboot after just about ANY system config change or program install.

The strange - My computer, Windows explorer thing - why not one file browsing system?

The e-fetish - a web link for everything fascination.

Those are my biggies!

[Mav451]

Kiwi you're a pretty funny guy I'll give you that. You said yourself that your experience is pretty limited--well I think that says it already. Locating cd-rom drives? That's one of the funniest things i've seen, and i've seen alot of things, but that goes down as one of the greatest :)

Of course you don't realize that My Computer is one and the same as Explorer (My Computer displays drives). Perhaps your difficulty in realizing that those things are one and the same is linked with your problems in finding the CD-rom drive.


The e-fetish - a web link for everything fascination.

That one really has me baffled...b/c i have no idea what you're talking about. Perhaps you are using WinXP Home? who knows, i give up.

[Grimace]

The worst thing about XP is MSN Messenger which NEVER seems to go away. You can close it - it pops back up minutes later. You can ever try to uninstall it - it still weasles its way back. FRIGGIN ANNOYING!

[Rower_CPU]

Just delete the messenger folder and watch out for updates in Windows Update. It disappears without a peep. :)

[patrick0brien]

Originally posted by Rower_CPU
Just delete the messenger folder and watch out for updates in Windows Update. It disappears without a peep. :)

-Rower

I only wish that worked...

[Powerbook G5]

When I tried deleting MSN on the Dell at home, it popped back up when my mom opened Outlook and now whenever you try getting rid of it, either an error message pops up saying that deleting those certain files may effect other programs or it still pops up. It seems like Microsoft has built applications into other applications so you may thing you've deleted the program, but it's just lurking in another folder somewhere on the HD waiting to pop out and take you by surprise.

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by patrick0brien
-Rower

I only wish that worked...

My lab of Dells tells me it works fine. ;)

What's happening for you?

[linky]

you can stop msn messanger by disableing it in outlook express (if it opens with OE) or by stopping the service, not unlike editing a .rc file for osx

[Mav451]

man i have the opposite problem. I can't find it ANYWHERE! One of my friends had started using it and i just realized that i had no idea where it was. I looked for it in IE, Outlook, and in components. It was gone.

This is of course with XP Corporate SP1 Integrated.

I wouldn't trust XP Home or the original XP Pro anymore at all...

[patrick0brien]

Originally posted by Rower_CPU
My lab of Dells tells me it works fine. ;)

What's happening for you?

-Rower_CPU

Not appearing as a service, and not removable due to sharing errors. This is likely due to the fact that it is running somewhere, and I just don't have the time to start in safe mode and erase the bloody thing.

I suspect many fall victim to the Bigger-Pain-In-The-Ass-Than-It's-Really-Worth syndrome.

[VincentVega]

To uninstall Messenger totally, try running this from the Start>Run dialog:


RunDll32 advpack.dll,LaunchINFSection %windir%\INF\msmsgs.inf,BLC.Remove


You may get an error about an OCX file whilst it's working its way through the uninstall but you can safely ignore it. Make sure that Outlook, Outlook Express and so on aren't running, else you might get some sharing violation errors (look in Task Manager's Processes tab for tasks named "msmsgs" or similar and use the "End Process" button to nuke them - or use safe mode).

As for XP annoyances:

1. Whilst XP is much better than 98/Me/2000, it's still not very robust. My PC gets a hell of a lot of punishment and even though it's built with pretty good parts (Xeons, etc) Windows still flakes out from time to time, which can get annoying.
2. Spyware, viruses. I envy you Mac owners. I use Symantec Antivirus Corporate and AdAware and sit behind a router with in-built firewall, but the risk is still there.
3. Programs that install stuff that you don't want. They stick icons on the desktop, blithely assume that you want program "X" in a Start Menu entry called "Y", install pointless features (Mr Clippy, anyone?) or install their files all over the place or in totally unintuitive places.
4. Inconsistent UI. From playing with OS X at various computer stores, it's all wonderfully integrated and logical. Windows is not. This isn't the fault of the OS, per se, but it's still fairly irritating.

As for install time, I use Ghost 2004 and I can have Windows and all my apps installed within 90 minutes or so. That reminds me, it's time for another reinstall :).

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by carletonmusic
The worst thing about XP is MSN Messenger which NEVER seems to go away. You can close it - it pops back up minutes later. You can ever try to uninstall it - it still weasles its way back. FRIGGIN ANNOYING!

Easy solution.

[list=1]
Open Windows Explorer.
Go into tools -> folder options from the dropdown boxes.
Click on the vew tab.
Uncheckmark "Hide Portected operating system files"
Tell windows yes indeed you DO want to unhide protected OS files. *sighs*
now check the radio button that says "show hidden files and folders"
Click OK so you are back to your file browser.
Browse to C:\windows\inf.
Locate the file called sysoc.inf
Right click on it and select copy.
in an open area of that folder right click and paste. You should now have a backup copy of the file called "Copy of sysoc.inf"
Right click on the sysoc.inf file again. Select OPEN.
This should open sysoc.inf in the text editor.
Select Edit -> replace from the dropdown box.
In the "Replace What:" area type: HIDE
Leave the "Replace With:" blank
What we are doing is adding hidden items in the add/remove wizard so you can remove MSN and messanger. Windows supports this out of the box but its hidden. Its intended to be used by the corp world that throw up a stink about having IM clients on their systems.
Click "Replace All" this should go down the list of items in the text file and remove any ref to hide.
Select file -> save.
Close out of notepad.
Click on START-> Control Panel -> "Add or remove programs".
In the left hand side select Add/Remove windows components
Scroll down the list and remove MSN explorer, and Windows Messanger. You will notice there are to entries for Windows Messager. Igmore the one with the icon that looks like a gray dimaond and just uncheckmark the one that has a little teal person on it.
Click next and it will update and disable messenger.
We aren't done yet though. This only disables it for your current user. In the event that someone reinstalls messenger from Windows Update it can return. So we are go to go one step further.
NOTE: THIS ONLY APPLIES FOR USER WITH WINDOWS XP PROFESSIONAL. WINDOWS XP HOME USERS. GO PIRATE A COPY. :p
To be sure that the accursed messenger never runs again click on START -> RUN.
Type gpedit.msc then click OK
This is the group policy editor. It’s a very powerful tool in windows that can lock down the system in a very dramatic fashion. [This was a big ass warning if you didn't catch it.] This tool isn't as dangerous as the registry editor but I can do some nasty things to your system if you don't know what you are doing. Fortunately I do so just follow the instructions.
Follow this pathing: Local Computer Policy\User Configuration\Windows Components\Windows Messenger
Locate the item under Windows Messenger called: "Do not allow Windows Messenger to be run" and right click on it and select "Properties"
Change the setting to ENABLED.
What You've just done is told the OS to never run the executable for Messanger.
Click OK. Close out of the Group Policy editor.
This concludes your Windows tweaking session for the day. :)
[/list=1]


OK. Not so simple. But it gets to be second nature when you've dicked with Windows for as long as I have.

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by Kiwi-Todd
The neccessity to reboot after just about ANY system config change or program install.

The strange - My computer, Windows explorer thing - why not one file browsing system?



My Computer is a placeholder for all storage devices on the system not an application. So when you open up my Computer, which you can rename if you don't like it, (Mine is called Local/Network Storage.) you are really just opening up your file browser a.k.a Windows Explorer. In fact I beleve that MS is trying to do away with the file explorer. You will notice that by default My Computer on your desktop is not there. And starting with Windows 98 SE and Windows 2000 they burried the file explorer from START -> Programs to START - > Programs - > Accessories. I think MS is trying to get away from having user use the file system at all. If you do open up My Computer the only diff is that it doesn't have the tree view on the left side but you can add that by going into VIEW - > TOOL BARS - > FOLDER. I think my Computer was intended to be a slimmed down version of the file explorer. Making the view as simple as possible. *shrugs* Or manybe not.

As for reboots. This is where our experiences diverge. I never have to reboot unless I'm making device setting changes and even then its very rare. I can add a protocol to my system and in 9x I sometimes had to reboot TWICE!!?!?! XP not a single reboot. In fact the only time I've had to reboot XP is with patches and programs that integrate with XP to the device level. Example: iTunes requires a reboot, Nero CD burning ROM requires a reboot, etc. Older programs may still have a built in prompt for rebooting, either that or piss poor programming, but I've found that if you ignore it you can just go ahead and use the program. Also when you do program updates sometimes the update isn't smart enough to close all locked program files and thus can't update those files requiring a reboot. If you take the time to end task any processes that you know are going to be updated you can get away without a reboot. Windows XP Pro is a decent OS but it does require quite a bit of hand holding and when it doesn't want to hold your hand you have to just plain slap it upside the head and tell it to play nice.

[GrannySmith_G5]

I hate the fact that my Mother, Father-in-law,Aunts,cousins,etc. constantly call me up with some ridiculous problem they are having with xp. The fact that you can't buy a computer, take it out of the box, hook it up, and start doing simple tasks like web browsing and email without having problems with the system is crazy. I won't even begin to go into the problems when they start buying digital cameras, and scanners and such. If 90% of the computing world uses Windows, and roughly the same percentage haven't a clue about computers, then how does that work? There must be millions of people out there who just have horrible computing experiences. That's really too bad, because that doesn't need to be the case.

[Mav451]

I like how people generalize that XP is "hard" with digital cameras.

I use an extremely outdated Kodak digicam, which was promptly detected automatically through the USB connection.

I don't see how hard it is for someone to plug it in -- heck, a "camera" wizard pops up--you select the photos you want, and you're done with it. I myself had that same stereotypical: "oh do i have the drivers? Is this gonna be hard" initial fear. Well XP did it with no driver installs needed. Literally plug and play.

My mother, who is horrible with computers, has been in the whole digi cam scene for a few years before i even started doing that (which means she was doing it before XP, with 98!) That generalization is pretty stereotypical from the Mac community I understand.

My aunt figured out how to use Yahoo! Mail and Internet Explorer on her own. Again, pretty computer illiterate. The only time she asked for my help was because her computer had died (when i checked, it was a bad power supply).

[takao]

...just thought about making the same comment about my mother... she even helps my aunt with her computer (she made a switch from windows 3.11 and a 386 to windows xp and pentium 4.. ) and is ripping and burning cds on her own.

the longer you have a computer ..the better/faster you can do things ...

on windows it takes perhaps longer but its not really _hard_ to manage ...but there is lot of free space for improvement... hope this AND security will improve in longhorn... that would cause less problems for me :rolleyes:

[GrannySmith_G5]

well jeez Mav, your family is obviously much smarter than mine. I should have taken that into consideration. I guess most people can run Windows without having any problems. Looks like I am surrounded by complete idiots. From now on I'll just tell them "don't call me about all those error messages you're getting, you are simply retarded. I mean come on mom, you can plug in a 6 year old Kodak digital camera into your computer, and it will automatically work great. Stop being so damn stupid and run your computer error free like every one else."

Sweet, my life will be much easier now.

/extreme mac zealot who gets erections over stereotyping Windows complications even though I have never seen let alone laid a single finger on a PC in my entire life.

[Mav451]

Hey, I wasn't trying to ridicule you. It's just that one of the most common stereotypes is that Windows (whether or not it's XP, 2000, 98) takes alot of knowledge to operate. Following that stereotype is that a even a "baby" can use a Mac.

I'm thinking that it is a little odd that when you claim windows has so many problems that you have not suggested to them to buy "error-free" Macs, where there are no problems, no driver errors, and heck, probably even operated without the user even touching the keyboard. Yes your life will be easier :)

[GrannySmith_G5]

Given my beliefs, yes, it would be odd had I not recommended they buy a Mac. This is why I have. It is my firm belief that they would be better off with the mac for what what they are looking to get out of a computer. The relatives and friends who I have gotten to buy macs don't call me with problems all the time. As far as "error free" goes, nobody really says things like that. Do they?

[Mav451]

well i thought i'd insert a buzzword in there just for kicks--this was in response to your angry statement about the error messages...

[patrick0brien]

Originally posted by Mav451
...windows has so many problems that you have not suggested to them to buy "error-free" Macs, where there are no problems, no driver errors, and heck, probably even operated without the user even touching the keyboard. Yes your life will be easier :)

-All

Y'know, Mav451 brings up an interesing contrast here. Macs do tend to have a little less error-age overall, though my XP box has never been annoying in this regard. It's essentially a little clunkier than OS X, but otherwise a valiant machine so far.

But my point is when an Mac errors - really errors - it's ugly.

"directory overlap at sector 45563 and 45567"

When somebody asks me why I have and prefer the Mac, my answer is simply that "I can trust the Mac."

[takao]

Originally posted by patrick0brien

But my point is when an Mac errors - really errors - it's ugly.


i just wonderd why there aren't any hints to the movie "The Good, The Bad and the Ugly" in this thread

The Good : mac os x, unix
The Bad:
The Ugly:

hm but i have problems with windows ;-) shall i put it in "bad" or "ugly" ;-) i just can't decide

[mrjamin]

ok, here goes - (some duplicates from previous posts)

"cannot delete this file because it is locked by another process" - even when its an empty text file i created by accident, andhas never been opened. STILL won't let me delete it after a reboot, start in safe mode, OR thru' command prompt - i get this all the time, my harddisk is full of empty folders i can't delete, and files i can't delete. Running XP Pro SP1 with all the updates, hdd integrity is fine and hdd is completely defragged

the fact that i HAVE to reformat my machine once a month because it just bogs down over time. Its my work machine, has virtually nothing on it and i rarely install new stuff - it just slows down! I charge a couple of hundred £ for my time, per day - it takes me half a day to reformat my machine and get in back to the way i like it; maybe i should invoice M$?

the taskbar getting waaaay too cluttered.

pointless processes running in the background

Browser being built straight into the OS - ok, you get faster launch times of IE, but it slows the rest of the system down - i don't even use IE.

lack of DECENT free software

installing a printer and scanner is a pain in the ass

Transferring files over a network is a lot slower than it should be

lame multiple user accounts stuff

M$'s blatant disregard for my privacy

completely illogical menu structure and control panel

NTFS is a crap filesystem, FAT32 is worse

far too many viruses, eploits and spyware out there for my liking!

much more stable than previous winblows versions, but still too unstable for my liking. It bluescreened last week and truncated (i.e. zero'd all data) EVERY open file, including 7hrs worth of PHP i'd been working on (yes, i'd saved them but because they were in use when it crashed, windows truncated them), all my emails since october and all my browser/email prefs

nonsensical errors "windows cannot synchronise your system clock with a timeserver because the time presented by the timeserver does not match that of your system clock" - i got that error yesterday, i laughed my ass off.

its ability to "forget" preferences

I'm self employed, and at the moment my pc is costing me money purely because of the amount of time i have to spend fixing the SOB. Why am i not on a mac yet? I've been in business 3 months - i'm saving!! my iBook isn't powerful enough to do monitor spanning (even with the hack) with my 17" tft so its no good as a desktop machine.

[hulugu]

Originally posted by GrannySmith_G5
Given my beliefs, yes, it would be odd had I not recommended they buy a Mac. This is why I have. It is my firm belief that they would be better off with the mac for what what they are looking to get out of a computer. The relatives and friends who I have gotten to buy macs don't call me with problems all the time. As far as "error free" goes, nobody really says things like that. Do they?

What the hell happened to this thread? First it was all about problems with XP and suddenly its turned apologetic.
XP goes into apoletic fits and breaks when you try to hook up perhipherials, but if it works you get a 'wizard' to give a series of options that aren't what you were trying to do. The interface is [B]ugly[B/], the OS is [B]bad[B/], and while it is more stable than 98 or ME, it could still be better.
OSX is not error-free, of the people who I have personally switched the only problem is Word, but we know by reading these forums that Mac go wonky, but in my experience far less than XP box.
The people I know who have Macs don't talk about computer problems, virus-definitions, networking faults, they talk about the cool thing they figured out how to do, the new artist they found on iTunes, the DVD they just made, the photo they've manipulated, etc.
And just to illustrate my point, I was scanning docs into the PC (Win XP, AMD 2.0 Ghz, 512mb of RAM) and the image is screwed up and....wait for it....Cntrl-Alt-Delete...now back to work. Meanwhile, my Powerbook I had to do the equivalent, let's see um twice, and I've had two kernal panics since 2001. XP more stable than 98, sure. XP better than OSX, hell no!
I mean look at all the stuff Mav does to keep his machine running, are you kidding me? Those huge lists of system configurations, backups, utilities, and on and on. The equivalent for me, crontab adjustment, backup using .Mac, and a Permissions Repair once a month, then maybe fsck.
I feel bad for people who use Windows, it's like they have to carry a 50 pound backpack everywhere, some don't even realize it and insist that they're better off.
I just get more done on my 'slower' and 'less-useful artists machine' with 'almost no software.' But, oddly my paycheck seems to be better. Hmm.

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by hulugu
What the hell happened to this thread? First it was all about problems with XP and suddenly its turned apologetic.
XP goes into apoletic fits and breaks when you try to hook up perhipherials, but if it works you get a 'wizard' to give a series of options that aren't what you were trying to do. The interface is [B]ugly[B/], the OS is [B]bad[B/], and while it is more stable than 98 or ME, it could still be better.

[yada yada yada yada yada - Cut for space.]



Ahh its good to see someone getting people back on track. :rolleyes:
God forbid people speak civilly about an OS even if they don't like it.

Give it a rest. People have different experiences with the various OSs. I have a friend that has had nothing but problems with his iBook since he got it in September. Both in hardware and software.
I have not had a single crash in XP. EVER. That is on 1 desktop and 2 laptops. The desktop has been up and running for 73 days now without any problems. I can ignore 70% of the patches because I don't use Internet Exploder. You don't like the interface? Neither did I hence the reason Windows has a themeing engine its literally 4 clicks to change the theme in Windows and there are literally thousands of themes available to apply to XP if you don't like MS's Fisher Price theme.

Finally you rattled off such tasks/utilities as crontab adjustment, backup using .Mac, and a Permissions Repair once a month, then maybe fsck
Tell me how many users who are new to the Mac would know how to run fschk or do a permissions repair. What the heck is crontab? I'm looking at getting a PowerBook this summer fall. I have no clue as to how to run OS X. My last Mac was a ][e. The fact of the matter is that everyone is a newbie at some point on every OS be it Mac or Windows. And EVERY OS requires some form of maintenance. OS X isn't some type of holy OS that was touched by the hand of god. It has its faults and requires some form of babying like any OS otherwise they would have stopped at 10.0.

There is also another truth to Windows that no one has mentioned yet. If the person who did the install doesn't know what they are doing they can screw things up. I consider Windows to be somewhere between Linux and the Mac. Its not the easiest OS to deal with but when setup correctly is can be a solid, stable, easily managed system. And if you want to categorize Windows as a 50 pound pack then so be it. At least that 50 pound pack is loaded with a ton of compatible software and hardware.

PS- You speak of something failing when you are scanning something. Admittedly I don't know what scanning you speak of but . . . . Get a clue. The vendor of the scanning software/drivers/hardware is more at fault then Microsoft and I hate to tell you this but poorly coded software and/or drivers aren't going to run any better on OS X.

[Hodapp]

Worst thing about Windows XP is it isn't made by Apple, AM I RIGHT OR AM I RIGHT HERE GUYS??!?!

[airborne]

Originally posted by io_burn
Worst thing about Windows XP is it isn't made by Apple, AM I RIGHT OR AM I RIGHT HERE GUYS??!?!
YES YOU ARE CORRECT, SIR!!!

[Rower_CPU]

Cut it out, you two.

[Mord]

Originally posted by io_burn
Worst thing about Windows XP is it isn't made by Apple, AM I RIGHT OR AM I RIGHT HERE GUYS??!?!

the comment for you location indicates you live in the uk and the "AM I RIGHT OR AM I RIGHT" is from the film groundhog day which was show on channel 5 yesterday thus YOU ARE FROM THE UK

just my scherlock holms moment :)

(for all you americans the uk is a small island that ruled the world before you)

[Hodapp]

Hahaha, more like it was shown on every channel that happened to be showing any kind of movie anywhere in the world yesterday. :) (I think it was on about 5 different channels on DirecTV here in the States.)

[Mord]

damn you ruined my roll :(

good film but that last comment "lets stay here" pissed me off

[hulugu]

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
Ahh its good to see someone getting people back on track. :rolleyes:
God forbid people speak civilly about an OS even if they don't like it...People have different experiences with the various OSs....I have not had a single crash in XP. EVER.....You don't like the interface? Neither did I hence the reason Windows has a themeing engine its literally 4 clicks to change the theme in Windows and there are literally thousands of themes available to apply to XP if you don't like MS's Fisher Price theme....Finally you rattled off such tasks/utilities as crontab adjustment, backup using .Mac, and a Permissions Repair once a month, then maybe fsck...Tell me how many users who are new to the Mac would know how to run fschk or do a permissions repair. What the heck is crontab? I'm looking at getting a PowerBook this summer fall. I have no clue as to how to run OS X. My last Mac was a ][e. The fact of the matter is that everyone is a newbie at some point on every OS be it Mac or Windows. And EVERY OS requires some form of maintenance. OS X isn't some type of holy OS that was touched by the hand of god. It has its faults and requires some form of babying like any OS otherwise they would have stopped at 10.0.

There is also another truth to Windows that no one has mentioned yet. If the person who did the install doesn't know what they are doing they can screw things up. I consider Windows to be somewhere between Linux and the Mac. Its not the easiest OS to deal with but when setup correctly is can be a solid, stable, easily managed system. And if you want to categorize Windows as a 50 pound pack then so be it. At least that 50 pound pack is loaded with a ton of compatible software and hardware.

PS- You speak of something failing when you are scanning something. Admittedly I don't know what scanning you speak of but . . . . Get a clue. The vendor of the scanning software/drivers/hardware is more at fault then Microsoft and I hate to tell you this but poorly coded software and/or drivers aren't going to run any better on OS X.


You know what, I wrote down a scathing response, all full of piss and vinegar, and then I went and reread my post. I was being facitious, but I come off like a jerk, so I apologize.
The scanner bombed my machine while I was writing my original response and it pissed me off, especially since I had used the scanner last week with my Powerbook and it worked very well.
However, I am suprised at how much work someone like Mav does to keep their machine in shape, I thought about the equivalents, backups, system utilities, etc. and I mentioned the few that I do that has led me to such a stable machine:
Backup is an Application you get if you buy .Mac and it does automactic backups for you; crontab is a UNIX utility that runs during certain times in the day, but this can be when your machine is off, so it never is completed, so you can adjust it using either the CLIE or several neat little GUI programs; reparing permissions is a 4-click process that anyone can learn to do. These take a combined 20 minutes once a month, while Mav's list takes much longer and requires many more steps.
Furthmore, I understand that every system has its weaknesses and strengths and users have varied experiences in dealing with them. However, I think most people do more work to keep their PC going than a Mac, and of the people I've convinced to switch (ranging from a hard-core Linux/Windows geek to a budding photographer) they have been problem free and in the case of the photographer are able to do really cool things because she actually understands her computer. Both have been problem-free as have I. I'm beginning to think that 50 pound pack full of 'compatible software and hardware' is more of a burden because of all those 'poorly coded apps' than a help.
So, while my statement probably caused your reaction, I would nonetheless like to point out that 'get a clue' and 'yadda, yadda, yadda' have yet to rise to the pantheon of intelligent discourse. So thanks for that. Also, congratulations on keeping WinXP running for 73 days, you deserve a cookie.

[hulugu]

Originally posted by Hector
the comment for you location indicates you live in the uk and the "AM I RIGHT OR AM I RIGHT" is from the film groundhog day which was show on channel 5 yesterday thus YOU ARE FROM THE UK

just my scherlock holms moment :)

(for all you americans the uk is a small island that ruled the world before you)


The UK ruled the world, when did that happen? I just checked it's not on CNN or Fox News. Wait, no my history book doesn't mention anything about the UK, just France, Spain, and the British. I'm so confused. :D

[hulugu]

Originally posted by Rower_CPU
Cut it out, you two.


Yessir. Shutting up now....

WinXP sucks! Sorry. Really, I promise I'll be quiet. Sorry.

[billyboy]

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
Easy solution.

[list=1]
Open Windows Explorer.
Go into tools -> folder options from the dropdown boxes.
Click on the vew tab.
Uncheckmark "Hide Portected operating system files"
Tell windows yes indeed you DO want to unhide protected OS files. *sighs*
now check the radio button that says "show hidden files and folders"
Click OK so you are back to your file browser.
Browse to C:\windows\inf.
Locate the file called sysoc.inf
Right click on it and select copy.
in an open area of that folder right click and paste. You should now have a backup copy of the file called "Copy of sysoc.inf"
Right click on the sysoc.inf file again. Select OPEN.
This should open sysoc.inf in the text editor.
Select Edit -> replace from the dropdown box.
In the "Replace What:" area type: HIDE
Leave the "Replace With:" blank
What we are doing is adding hidden items in the add/remove wizard so you can remove MSN and messanger. Windows supports this out of the box but its hidden. Its intended to be used by the corp world that throw up a stink about having IM clients on their systems.
Click "Replace All" this should go down the list of items in the text file and remove any ref to hide.
Select file -> save.
Close out of notepad.
Click on START-> Control Panel -> "Add or remove programs".
In the left hand side select Add/Remove windows components
Scroll down the list and remove MSN explorer, and Windows Messanger. You will notice there are to entries for Windows Messager. Igmore the one with the icon that looks like a gray dimaond and just uncheckmark the one that has a little teal person on it.
Click next and it will update and disable messenger.
We aren't done yet though. This only disables it for your current user. In the event that someone reinstalls messenger from Windows Update it can return. So we are go to go one step further.
NOTE: THIS ONLY APPLIES FOR USER WITH WINDOWS XP PROFESSIONAL. WINDOWS XP HOME USERS. GO PIRATE A COPY. :p
To be sure that the accursed messenger never runs again click on START -> RUN.
Type gpedit.msc then click OK
This is the group policy editor. It’s a very powerful tool in windows that can lock down the system in a very dramatic fashion. [This was a big ass warning if you didn't catch it.] This tool isn't as dangerous as the registry editor but I can do some nasty things to your system if you don't know what you are doing. Fortunately I do so just follow the instructions.
Follow this pathing: Local Computer Policy\User Configuration\Windows Components\Windows Messenger
Locate the item under Windows Messenger called: "Do not allow Windows Messenger to be run" and right click on it and select "Properties"
Change the setting to ENABLED.
What You've just done is told the OS to never run the executable for Messanger.
Click OK. Close out of the Group Policy editor.
This concludes your Windows tweaking session for the day. :)
[/list=1]


OK. Not so simple. But it gets to be second nature when you've dicked with Windows for as long as I have.

That is the funniest thing I have read all day. Fair play to you for remembering something so simple.

I had a list of 5 steps, and one of them was buy a mac first

[Mav451]

Guys it great that people think that I'm doing alot of work.

Heck, I can write a guide (no, not a mediocre CNET.com guide), a real guide based on my experiences in the past 7 months.

1. Most of the tweaks/services are done right at the beginning of installation of WinXP Pro, not a continous process. This includes the initial (and powerful) registry tweak that I use, disables about 10-20 useless annoying services. If i had built a computer for one the MacRumors.com members with all my tweaks, you would probably find it very hard to criticize in comparison to an average JoeShmoe Dell or Compaq.

2. There are only two utilities i use. One of them i run basically every other week--and now i'm thinking i can run it every other month now. SpyBot: Search and Destroy (adware/spyware detection and cleaning program) is not even required after you Immunize IE of its Active X holes. Spybot does this in one click, that's it.

Because if you run the more powerful Mozilla Firebird, spyware will find it extremely hard to get in through your browser.

3. Registry cleaning. Unless your constantly installing/uninstalling games/utilities, i seriously doubt that even this needs to be done even every other week. I don't use it unless I know a certain program will be finicky with installations. JV16 PowerTools can easily scan for old entries from old programs...if you don't remember what programs you have installed/uninstalled, then you are already in some trouble. But have no fear, PowerTools let you learn about the location of the entry/date so you can figure out if its important or not. I think what PowerTools is really important for is when you are switching from an ATi video card to an nVidia or vice versa. Both have drivers that will conflict with one another...of course if you don't switch cards, this is not a problem.

To be honest, I don't know do maintenance work at all. As i said in the beginning, the most crucial time of getting the tweaks done is at the time of the OS install. If it is done right, not much needs to be done. Heck, if a guy in Maryland needs computer, I can help with the OS installation and you'll be good to go.

PS: Silicon Addict. I have Windows XP Corporate Edition Integrated SP1. I didn't do anything like what you have listed to get rid of Messenger. In fact, I ended up having to download it so i could talk to my friends who use it.

[Kiwi-Todd]

MAV... my dear

Kiwi you're a pretty funny guy I'll give you that. You said yourself that your experience is pretty limited--well I think that says it already. Locating cd-rom drives? That's one of the funniest things i've seen, and i've seen alot of things, but that goes down as one of the greatest


Shucks Mav - i'm glad that I busted you up - must happen a fair bit - looking down from your lofty heights at us plebes who don't own or use XP CORPORATE SP1 INTEGRATED - hell, I'm so dumb I'd never even heard of that !

My downright pig ignorance busts up a lot of people - I guess I am just a 20th century village idiot!

Unlike you integrated CORPORATE types my poor dumb family runs meagre ol' XP home - just like most people who use their PC at home? (guessing... but I'm probably wrong there too).

My post was about observations that I had made over a two week period at home over christmas - you see being the most ignorant and slowest of my family my wintel box only runs 98SE (and I really have no big gripes with it - I was actually hugely anti-mac only 2 years ago).

I digress -sorry my mind wanders...back on track;

Of course you don't realize that My Computer is one and the same as Explorer (My Computer displays drives). Perhaps your difficulty in realizing that those things are one and the same is linked with your problems in finding the CD-rom drive.


You are dead right! - i didn't realise that they were one and the same - for these minor reasons:

1) They have different names.
2) They look different and show different things (not just drives on my version of My Computer either mate)
3) One has the heirarchical tree system to the left - which I like for moving files about - the other doesn't (I now learn from another post that I can get this on My computer through a menu item)

My point is that I used windows for 6 years as an everyday user (limited experience means I don't understand the workings of Windows) and found Explorer invaluable and My computer fairly hopeless for organising files.

As for me not being able to find the CD-ROM Drive - read again buddy - it wasn't me - it was your beloved XP (home) that couldn't find it.

Windows explorer could find the drive - but My Computer (which is of course the same thing, only different) couldn't!! But hell - I guess I'm just a dumbass again - oh thats right - My Computer shows DRIVES!

iTunes could see the drive - but Roxio couldn't - service pack downloads, Driver updates and firmware updates didn't resolve the problem - can you guess what did?

A $NZ350 upgrade to XP Professional (still not CORPORATE I know).

Now I will finish in your terms and tone:

MAV you are the funniest guy (or gal) that I have come across in, like forever!

Of course you don't know or understand that most computer user's idea of a great night out is NOT building a PC at home.

It is clear that your intellectual superiority renders you simply incapable of understanding that human opinions are formed through experiences. Most morons like me have real world experiences with computers (Macs included) that leave us frustrated with technology, from these we form impressions and opinions (rightly or wrongly).

Perhaps your difficulty in comprehending this concept is linked to the inordinate amount of time you seem to spend posting on forums

But let me say this: for a simpleton from down-under you are just the funniest thing I have come across in month's - you bust me up MAV!

[linky]

See, the above post is exactly what im talking about, will a poweruser really see the benifit of macOS?

Kiwi-Todd is right in lots of ways, most people are ignorant to technoligy, they dont live or breath it, i on the other hand do, it's my hoby and what i enjoy doing - is macOS only for the simple light computer crowd or will a poweruser really see it as such a great thing?

the way Kiwi-Todd sums it up, it macs macs look like they are for simple minded people that just dont want to be bothered with computers, technoligy, or trying to understand the reason WHY things are working they just want it to be there NOW for THEM (oh so very american if i might add) :D

[Powerbook G5]

If Unix isn't for power users, then I must be living in the wrong universe...

[linky]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
If Unix isn't for power users, then I must be living in the wrong universe...


Well, without playing around with osx myself im forced to go by what i read on the verious message boards, from what i can tell the *nix aspect of osx is quite "nutered" as it where

and without having a powerbook of my own i dont see any way to really get to know it

hense my hesitation of throwing out 3,000$ on a laptop i might not like ;x

[Powerbook G5]

It's not "neutered" in any way I can see. All you do is launch terminal and you have full access to Darwin, which is Apple's version of BSD Unix. I've read up on a few books on Unix, read Apple's technical books on Darwin, and played around on both terminal and a straight up Unix box and they both seem to behave the same to me. You can even startup in verbose mode and bypass the GUI altogether if you so choose.

[Kiwi-Todd]

Linky

Thanks for that clarification.

I hadn't really distilled my post down to your salient interpretation, but I guess in retrospect you are correct! --Macs are for simple-minded folks not powerusers - shucks and there I was thinking video compositing was fairly intense work ....... while PeeCees appear to be suited for semi-literates for whom "technoligy" is a "hoby".

Yes I want it ALL, I want it NOW and I want it for ME, ME, ME - because I PAID for it!!

[Powerbook G5]

I'm literate but I still don't like Windows.

[linky]

Originally posted by Kiwi-Todd
Linky

Thanks for that clarification.

I hadn't really distilled my post down to your salient interpretation, but I guess in retrospect you are correct! --Macs are for simple-minded folks not powerusers - shucks and there I was thinking video compositing was fairly intense work ....... while PeeCees appear to be suited for semi-literates for whom "technoligy" is a "hoby".

Yes I want it ALL, I want it NOW and I want it for ME, ME, ME - because I PAID for it!!

thank you for makeing my point for me :)

edit: i just want to make it clear that im not really here to argue, im trying to draw my own conclusions by asking questions, some people here are overly defensive, im honestly just trying to ask a few questions, your need to attack anyone who disagree's with you is not really helping

[Mav451]

Originally posted by Kiwi-Todd
MAV... my dear



Shucks Mav - i'm glad that I busted you up - must happen a fair bit - looking down from your lofty heights at us plebes who don't own or use XP CORPORATE SP1 INTEGRATED - hell, I'm so dumb I'd never even heard of that !

My downright pig ignorance busts up a lot of people - I guess I am just a 20th century village idiot!

Unlike you integrated CORPORATE types my poor dumb family runs meagre ol' XP home - just like most people who use their PC at home? (guessing... but I'm probably wrong there too).

My post was about observations that I had made over a two week period at home over christmas - you see being the most ignorant and slowest of my family my wintel box only runs 98SE (and I really have no big gripes with it - I was actually hugely anti-mac only 2 years ago).

I digress -sorry my mind wanders...back on track;



You are dead right! - i didn't realise that they were one and the same - for these minor reasons:

1) They have different names.
2) They look different and show different things (not just drives on my version of My Computer either mate)
3) One has the heirarchical tree system to the left - which I like for moving files about - the other doesn't (I now learn from another post that I can get this on My computer through a menu item)

My point is that I used windows for 6 years as an everyday user (limited experience means I don't understand the workings of Windows) and found Explorer invaluable and My computer fairly hopeless for organising files.

As for me not being able to find the CD-ROM Drive - read again buddy - it wasn't me - it was your beloved XP (home) that couldn't find it.

Windows explorer could find the drive - but My Computer (which is of course the same thing, only different) couldn't!! But hell - I guess I'm just a dumbass again - oh thats right - My Computer shows DRIVES!

iTunes could see the drive - but Roxio couldn't - service pack downloads, Driver updates and firmware updates didn't resolve the problem - can you guess what did?

A $NZ350 upgrade to XP Professional (still not CORPORATE I know).

Now I will finish in your terms and tone:

MAV you are the funniest guy (or gal) that I have come across in, like forever!

Of course you don't know or understand that most computer user's idea of a great night out is NOT building a PC at home.

It is clear that your intellectual superiority renders you simply incapable of understanding that human opinions are formed through experiences. Most morons like me have real world experiences with computers (Macs included) that leave us frustrated with technology, from these we form impressions and opinions (rightly or wrongly).

Perhaps your difficulty in comprehending this concept is linked to the inordinate amount of time you seem to spend posting on forums

But let me say this: for a simpleton from down-under you are just the funniest thing I have come across in month's - you bust me up MAV!

Hey, thanks for taking the time for writing a great post. I guess you are making fun of not just me, but the other top forum posters when you say "inordinate amount of time spent posting on the forums". I am no where near the top poster on this forum, so it looks like you are making fun of your fellow MacRumors members that made the top 50 Posters of 2003 in that regard. I congratulate you for disrespecting all on this forum that take more time than even I do to help other MacRumors members with their computer problems. Seriously, congratulations on your condescending attitude toward active posters. You really deserve a medal.

Oh man, addressing me as dear? Are you my mother? I have never seen anyone address my as "my dear" but those who resort to childish name-calling as a last resort.

I also appreciate your generalization that building a PC takes an entire night. It takes a bit less than an hour to be fully assembled and formated. Of course, your stereotypes, generalizations, and bigotry blind you from seeing this. And then, like a high schooler (are you in high school), you believe (or ignorantly conjure in your brain) that I am one of those nerds who stays at home fiddling his thumbs or playing with his PC.

Again, congratulations on your horrible misconceptions. It deserves a gold medal.

[Kiwi-Todd]

mmmm on reflection I just realized that in all honesty I don't like Windows either.

Problem is - I'm not really sure why - call it a gut reaction (The desire to vomit!)

Sorry for being so diplomatic up till now.

[Kiwi-Todd]

Linky

Hi there ... tell that to MAV !! (about the attacking people with different opinions)

[Mav451]

Um Kiwi, you just attacked me based on your OWN differing opinions. You have not shown a bit of indifference, so do not be the arbitrator in this situation.

[Powerbook G5]

It's starting to get a bit childish now, this new argument reminds me of a grade school playground fight.

If you don't like Windows or if you do like Windows, it's personal preference. I agree that there are issues inherent to any OS and if Kiwi says his computer couldn't find the CD drive, then maybe it didn't. On the reverse side, if someone says they can build a working PC in an hour, that's wonderful. It's just two sides of the spectrum.

[Kiwi-Todd]

MAV - I note that you took out your original comments that I had quoted in my reply to you.

Now why would that be???

[Kiwi-Todd]

Powerbook G5

I agree - I quit this infinite loop - just a bit of fun! (I hoped)

[Mav451]

I took those out because I didn't want a 3 pages to be used for my single post. If you want me to show you your original comments (or should i say jokes) about XP, I can do that for you.

If you do not want to learn, then there is nothing i can do. This thread is over.

[hulugu]

You really should try Darwin and OSX, the underlying technologies are very powerful and are merely a flavor of *NIX. I know several sysadmins who use iBooks and Powerbooks using the CLIE and they really like the system.
Go to your local Apple store or CompUSA and boot into terminal and watch the employees freak out while you enable root.
In fact this is my advice for any OS in fact even WinXP. Try Linux (Red Hat, Mandrake, etc.) try Unix (Sun, whatever) Windows (98, 2k, even ME if you're bored) try Palm, try Pocket PC, try a boot Linux CD on an Xbox, if you're really interested in computers as a hobby I think you should try to experience as much as possible, then your opinion about one or another has more weight. I've tried Windows 98 - XP, Linux (Red Hat, Yellow Dog) and OS9 - OSX.3.2 and in my opinion OSX.3.2 is the best game in town, but that's me.
So Linky, really go out and try an OSX box, I think you will be really surprised by what Apple has managed to do with the old NeXT software and frameworks and build them into a great OS.
Plus, OSX has a universal spell-checker, which you desperately need, no offense. :D
Mav, really you 'da man, keep those Windows boxes tame.

[linky]

Originally posted by hulugu
You really should try Darwin and OSX, the underlying technologies are very powerful and are merely a flavor of *NIX. I know several sysadmins who use iBooks and Powerbooks using the CLIE and they really like the system.
Go to your local Apple store or CompUSA and boot into terminal and watch the employees freak out while you enable root.
In fact this is my advice for any OS in fact even WinXP. Try Linux (Red Hat, Mandrake, etc.) try Unix (Sun, whatever) Windows (98, 2k, even ME if you're bored) try Palm, try Pocket PC, try a boot Linux CD on an Xbox, if you're really interested in computers as a hobby I think you should try to experience as much as possible, then your opinion about one or another has more weight. I've tried Windows 98 - XP, Linux (Red Hat, Yellow Dog) and OS9 - OSX.3.2 and in my opinion OSX.3.2 is the best game in town, but that's me.
So Linky, really go out and try an OSX box, I think you will be really surprised by what Apple has managed to do with the old NeXT software and frameworks and build them into a great OS.
Plus, OSX has a universal spell-checker, which you desperately need, no offense. :D
Mav, really you 'da man, keep those Windows boxes tame.

haha yes, i do like to play around with as much technoligy as possible - this is my whole reason for getting a mac to begin with

and as for my spelling, i apoligize, english is not my strongest language but i try and spell well enough to get by :D