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nope7308
Oct 13, 2008, 11:28 AM
Please forgive my ignorance, but approximately how long will it take until Snow Leopard (SL) is released? What is the major advantage SL has over the current OS? Depending on the ETA, is it worth waiting to purchase the MBP? If I purchase the MBP soon, how much on average would it cost to upgrade to SL (when released)?

Ideally, I would like to wait until next September to buy the MBP (more schooling), but my current computer is a ticking time bomb (it could blow any day now). Please keep that in mind when giving your suggestions.

If you think any other information is relevant, please do share! :D

Thanks!!



nick9191
Oct 13, 2008, 11:30 AM
Summer 2009

No visual improvements, or new applications, this will be a complete overhaul of the underlying technologies.

$129 normally.

nope7308
Oct 13, 2008, 11:41 AM
Summer 2009

No visual improvements, or new applications, this will be a complete overhaul of the underlying technologies.

$129 normally.

Hmm, so I assume it would be a substantial (i.e. worthy) OS upgrade? Would the underlying technologies of Snow Leopard complement the hardware configuration of the new MBP, or would there be no significant improvement to performance. Given the lack of information, I'll take all responses as educated predictions. Thanks again.

Aranince
Oct 13, 2008, 11:44 AM
Hmm, so I assume it would be a substantial (i.e. worthy) OS upgrade? Would the underlying technologies of Snow Leopard complement the hardware configuration of the new MBP, or would there be no significant improvement to performance. Given the lack of information, I'll take all responses as educated predictions. Thanks again.

The main issues being fixed in Snow Leopard are speed, performance, and size. So there would be a boost to performance. As of now, this is all we know. Expect more information at Macworld in January.

nope7308
Oct 13, 2008, 12:57 PM
The main issues being fixed in Snow Leopard are speed, performance, and size. So there would be a boost to performance. As of now, this is all we know. Expect more information at Macworld in January.

Again, forgive my ignorance (still using a half-functional PC), but at this 'Macworld' event, will new products be released or just announced? I'm confident that I could wait until January to purchase a new MBP, but anything beyond that is a toss up. I really wish my computer would just hold on until Sept. 2009, but that is highly unlikely.

I've also heard something about a "Nehalem" processor, but my intuition tells me that this will be introduced into desktops first, and notebooks later (meaning a 1 year+ wait). Also, can someone please explain to me what "monteniva" means, and if it will be included in tomorrow's release?

Sorry for my stupidity :(

Aranince
Oct 13, 2008, 01:04 PM
Again, forgive my ignorance (still using a half-functional PC), but at this 'Macworld' event, will new products be released or just announced? I'm confident that I could wait until January to purchase a new MBP, but anything beyond that is a toss up. I really wish my computer would just hold on until Sept. 2009, but that is highly unlikely.

I've also heard something about a "Nehalem" processor, but my intuition tells me that this will be introduced into desktops first, and notebooks later (meaning a 1 year+ wait). Also, can someone please explain to me what "monteniva" means, and if it will be included in tomorrow's release?

Sorry for my stupidity :(

What is going to be announced a Macworld is unknown at this point. Its possible that Apple could update the iMacs and/or Mac Minis, but this is just guesses.

Montevina is the name of a version of Intel's chipset. There is Santa Rosa, Penryn(current MBP) and Montevina which is Intel's latest chipset(chipset is different from processor). If rumors are true, the next Macbooks will not use Intel's chipset but will use NVIDIA's. As for Nehalem, Nehalem desktop chips are not going to be released for some time, well into 2009. Notebook chips a few months after that. Even when that happens, it's a good idea to wait until prices drop on the processors because they will be expensive when they are first released.

Remember, there is no such thing as a stupid question.

nope7308
Oct 13, 2008, 01:26 PM
What is going to be announced a Macworld is unknown at this point. Its possible that Apple could update the iMacs and/or Mac Minis, but this is just guesses.

Montevina is the name of a version of Intel's chipset. There is Santa Rosa, Penryn(current MBP) and Montevina which is Intel's latest chipset(chipset is different from processor). If rumors are true, the next Macbooks will not use Intel's chipset but will use NVIDIA's. As for Nehalem, Nehalem desktop chips are not going to be released for some time, well into 2009. Notebook chips a few months after that. Even when that happens, it's a good idea to wait until prices drop on the processors because they will be expensive when they are first released.

Remember, there is no such thing as a stupid question.

OK, so Montevina - being an intel chipset - will not be incorporated in the next release? What, then, are the advantages of the Nvidia chipset (whatever it may be)? Hell, I don't even know what a chipset is or what it's responsible for. I really appreciate your help with this!

Lastly, I must disagree with you on one point - there are stupid questions (I ask them all the time). For instance, can you draw me a square circle? :D

Vivid.Inferno
Oct 13, 2008, 01:34 PM
OK, so Montevina - being an intel chipset - will not be incorporated in the next release? What, then, are the advantages of the Nvidia chipset (whatever it may be)? Hell, I don't even know what a chipset is or what it's responsible for. I really appreciate your help with this!

Lastly, I must disagree with you on one point - there are stupid questions (I ask them all the time). For instance, can you draw me a square circle? :D

All the questions your asking on here are really good. They're all things I'm curious about too. I'm on a dying Toshiba, I want a new computer now, but I'm not going to have the cash for a couple months >.< Will I be able to get SL on the macbook/pros that are out tomorrow? What I mean is that when Micro$oft released Vista, all the computers that ran XP didn't have the RAM or whatever to support Vista. Will it be the same from Leopard to Snow Leopard? Or will all the computers currently running Leopard be able to run Snow Leopard?

...that was long winded lol

Aranince
Oct 13, 2008, 01:42 PM
OK, so Montevina - being an intel chipset - will not be incorporated in the next release? What, then, are the advantages of the Nvidia chipset (whatever it may be)? Hell, I don't even know what a chipset is or what it's responsible for. I really appreciate your help with this!

Lastly, I must disagree with you on one point - there are stupid questions (I ask them all the time). For instance, can you draw me a square circle? :D

A chipset is another chip on the motherboard(or logicboard) that is required for the functioning of the computer. The processor talks to the chipset, the chipset talks to the rest of the computer such as the memory, graphics card, USB ports, etc. Intel's chipset is separated into two chips, the north bridge and the south bridge. Because there are two separate chips, it is relatively slow. NVIDIA has one chip, which makes it is faster. Another good thing about NVIDIA, is it will have a much better integrated graphics chip. This means videos, animations, and graphics on the Macbooks will be many many times faster than Intel's offerings. The integrated graphics chip will not effect the Macbook Pros because it use a separate graphics card which will blow an integrated chip out of the water every time. Another feature of the NVIDIA chipset, if Apple decides to use this feature, is the MBP could switch between the dedicated graphics card and the integrated chip to conserve battery life.

nope7308
Oct 13, 2008, 01:46 PM
All the questions your asking on here are really good. They're all things I'm curious about too. I'm on a dying Toshiba, I want a new computer now, but I'm not going to have the cash for a couple months >.< Will I be able to get SL on the macbook/pros that are out tomorrow? What I mean is that when Micro$oft released Vista, all the computers that ran XP didn't have the RAM or whatever to support Vista. Will it be the same from Leopard to Snow Leopard? Or will all the computers currently running Leopard be able to run Snow Leopard?

...that was long winded lol

Again, I'm no expert on the matter, but I'm pretty sure that SL will be compatible with the new hardware being released tomorrow. From the little that I've read, SL incorporates a 64bit kernal (?) which, in idiot-proof terms, allows the OS/computer to more effectively utilize large amounts of RAM and speed up complex computing (e.g. video editing). In my uninformed view, SL is intended to let the software 'catch up' with the hardware, so to speak.

If I'm completely wrong on this one, someone please correct me!

CallsignBaron
Oct 13, 2008, 01:49 PM
New Macbooks and Macbook Pros are coming tomorrow. Snow Leopard will be some time next summer probably. Apple does things very differently from Microsoft. Updates to the OS are done on a more regular basis. If you purchased a new Macbook tomorrow it will run Snow Leopard just fine. As Arinince said SL is gonna be all about performance. Chances are a MB or MBP purchased tomorrow would run Snow Leopard better than it runs Leopard.

thegoldenmackid
Oct 13, 2008, 01:50 PM
Again, I'm no expert on the matter, but I'm pretty sure that SL will be compatible with the new hardware being released tomorrow. From the little that I've read, SL incorporates a 64bit kernal (?) which, in idiot-proof terms, allows the OS/computer to more effectively utilize large amounts of RAM and speed up complex computing (e.g. video editing). In my uninformed view, SL is intended to let the software 'catch up' with the hardware, so to speak.

If I'm completely wrong on this one, someone please correct me!

No you're probably right. I say probably because like what was mentioned above, we really don't know. if Snow Leopard is released at any point of 2009 you can assume that it would work with the new hardware tomorrow. The only real assumption we can have is that it will be compatible with all Intel Macs and almost confirmed that it will not work with the PowerPC's (unless of course the Powerbook G5 comes out). And yes, it's letting the software "catch up" - but don't expect any visual overhauls, there might be some new applications, more likely an overhaul of many current ones.

nope7308
Oct 13, 2008, 01:53 PM
A chipset is another chip on the motherboard(or logicboard) that is required for the functioning of the computer. The processor talks to the chipset, the chipset talks to the rest of the computer such as the memory, graphics card, USB ports, etc. Intel's chipset is separated into two chips, the north bridge and the south bridge. Because there are two separate chips, it is relatively slow. NVIDIA has one chip, which makes it is faster. Another good thing about NVIDIA, is it will have a much better integrated graphics chip. This means videos, animations, and graphics on the Macbooks will be many many times faster than Intel's offerings. The integrated graphics chip will not effect the Macbook Pros because it use a separate graphics card which will blow an integrated chip out of the water every time. Another feature of the NVIDIA chipset, if Apple decides to use this feature, is the MBP could switch between the dedicated graphics card and the integrated chip to conserve battery life.

So, in essence, the only foreseeable advantage of incorporating the Nvidia chipset in the MBP is to increase battery life? I assume this new chipset is geared toward the MB instead?

I'm just a little confused. Will tomorrow's release be based almost entirely on aesthetics/design, or will some meaningful improvement to performance be introduced?

elppa
Oct 13, 2008, 01:58 PM
The main issues being fixed in Snow Leopard are speed, performance, and size. So there would be a boost to performance.
They're not really “fixing” anything. It's not like Leopard is broken. Instead, Apple is innovating in the areas of multi core support and how general computing tasks are offloaded graphics card. These aren't general tweak and polish performance improvements, they are huge architectural changes.

If Snow Leopard delivers it will give Mac OS X a very significant advantage over other operating systems.

As of now, this is all we know.
We know a bit more than that, like native Exchange Support and a new version of QuickTime, called QuickTime X.

iMacmatician
Oct 13, 2008, 02:28 PM
Snow Leopard = "About a year" from June 2008.

Take that for what you will.

BornAgainMac
Oct 13, 2008, 02:56 PM
After Snow Leopard is out I predict that future versions of OSX will come out quicker. Every 18 months or so. I am sure when they optimize Snow Leopard, they already know what changes they will introduce with 10.7, 10.8, and 10.9 that they can have the foundation ready for those new technologies.

I bet with Time Machine and Spotlight, they had to do a lot of tweaks all over the code that they didn't plan on doing. For example, if they introduce "Voice Vision" or some new thing that makes all your existing Mac apps talk to you in some type of conversational mode. Getting the foundation ready will make new technologies easier to add.

nope7308
Oct 13, 2008, 03:07 PM
Thanks for all the feedback on Snow Leopard, but can someone please answer the following question?

"Will tomorrow's release be based almost entirely on aesthetics/design, or will some meaningful improvement(s) to performance be introduced?"

ntrigue
Oct 13, 2008, 03:18 PM
Tomorrow's announcements will introduce a design that will be the look of Macbook and MB Pro for years. They will receive incremental processor upgrades but more exciting is the Macbook's combination of Nvidia and processor bump. I think Macworld will announce a significant MB Pro improvement while the design goes unchanged.

nick9191
Oct 13, 2008, 03:25 PM
Brand new laptops will be unveiled tomorrow, all we know right now is that they will look different, and have faster technology, so yes faster performance.

Nothing regarding the Mac OS will be announced tomorrow, except maybe a update (service pack you would call them) which would improve stability, security, etc. These are free.

Let me explain the numbers:

The current Mac OS is 10.5.5.

The 10 means Macintosh Operating System 10, or X in Roman numerals (hence OS X).
The 5 means the current revision of that operating system. The current revision is Leopard. 10.4 was Tiger, 10.3 was Panther and so on. The last 5 is the current service pack, these are free and you download them to your computer through Apple's update manager just as you would on Windows.

The next OS will be 10.6 Snow Leopard, however this time instead of concentrating on features and visuals, Apple are concentrating on performance and stability. Have a read of Snow Leopard here http://www.apple.com/macosx/snowleopard/

No one knows the price of Snow Leopard. It might be $129, then again many of the uninformed user base would resent paying $129 for no visual improvements or new applications, therefore it might be cheaper, $99 or $79 perhaps to anybody with Leopard.

nope7308
Oct 13, 2008, 03:37 PM
Tomorrow's announcements will introduce a design that will be the look of Macbook and MB Pro for years. They will receive incremental processor upgrades but more exciting is the Macbook's combination of Nvidia and processor bump. I think Macworld will announce a significant MB Pro improvement while the design goes unchanged.

So aside from a face lift, the MBP will essentially remain unchanged? I'm interested in the MBP only, and I care more about a performance revision than an aesthetic one. Now, I'm not sure if I should buy the Oct. 14th revision or wait for the supposed Macworld revision...

I can probably wait until January, but not much longer - my current computer sparks/smokes, overheats, crashes, and the i button barely works (gotta love PCs).

nick9191
Oct 13, 2008, 03:40 PM
So aside from a face lift, the MBP will essentially remain unchanged? I'm interested in the MBP only, and I care more about a performance revision than an aesthetic one. Now, I'm not sure if I should buy the Oct. 14th revision or wait for the supposed Macworld revision...

I can probably wait until January, but not much longer - my current computer sparks/smokes, overheats, crashes, and the i button barely works (gotta love PCs).
There will definitely be a performance increase and possibly a price drop. Apple wouldn't change the design without updating the specs.

nope7308
Oct 13, 2008, 03:47 PM
There will definitely be a performance increase and possibly a price drop. Apple wouldn't change the design without updating the specs.

So if you were in my position, and on a tight budget, would you buy the Oct. 14th revision or wait for the January Macworld revision?

Relevant Info:
From now until December, I do generic computing and intensive word processing (i.e. 1 essay per week). My i button barely works at the moment (and I use personal pronouns :mad:). I will definitely need the MBP by May at the latest so I can get my photography side-project back in full swing (not enough juice with the current computer).

nick9191
Oct 13, 2008, 04:17 PM
So if you were in my position, and on a tight budget, would you buy the Oct. 14th revision or wait for the January Macworld revision?

Relevant Info:
From now until December, I do generic computing and intensive word processing (i.e. 1 essay per week). My i button barely works at the moment (and I use personal pronouns :mad:). I will definitely need the MBP by May at the latest so I can get my photography side-project back in full swing (not enough juice with the current computer).

I'd buy tomorrow. If you keep putting off and waiting for a newer model, you will never buy anything. Unfortunately thats what websites like these get you into doing, you sound like you definitely need it now, so buy it. And when the time comes for your photography stuff it will still be plenty fast.

nope7308
Oct 13, 2008, 04:26 PM
I'd buy tomorrow. If you keep putting off and waiting for a newer model, you will never buy anything. Unfortunately thats what websites like these get you into doing, you sound like you definitely need it now, so buy it. And when the time comes for your photography stuff it will still be plenty fast.

I was thinking the same thing, so thanks for your opinion. Now comes the task of finding the money to pay for it!

thespyglass
Oct 13, 2008, 05:12 PM
Great thread, I found this all really useful.
Thanks for your input, guys, and thanks to nope7308 for kicking it off. I was also wondering about all that so cheers. :)

Is it tomorrow yet?!

Battlefield Fan
Oct 13, 2008, 06:04 PM
So if you were in my position, and on a tight budget, would you buy the Oct. 14th revision or wait for the January Macworld revision?

Relevant Info:
From now until December, I do generic computing and intensive word processing (i.e. 1 essay per week). My i button barely works at the moment (and I use personal pronouns :mad:). I will definitely need the MBP by May at the latest so I can get my photography side-project back in full swing (not enough juice with the current computer).

After reading all of the post I would say you are due for a new laptop lol. I would suggest buying one of the new laptops that are released tomorrow. Apple should be releasing snow leapord around June of 2009. Also I don't see apple releasing a new mbp at the jan. Macworld. I would expect it to be released sometime before June of 2009. So I would just go ahead and buy the late 2008 model. 3 months is way to short for apple to update a laptop. I mean people were sur. When apple updated the MacBook just after 5 months.

And just because the laptop you buy has leapord doesn't mean you can't have snow leapord when it comes out. If anything when you upgrade it to SL it should improve the speed.

Now I don't know what hardware apple will use in the late 2008 mbp but keep it mind when you are customizing it that the items such as the CPU and screen can't be upgraded at a later time. Items such as ram and hard drives can be updated later on.

I wish you the best of luck and keep asking questions!

Vivid.Inferno
Oct 13, 2008, 06:16 PM
I was thinking the same thing, so thanks for your opinion. Now comes the task of finding the money to pay for it!

Yeah I'm in the same boat lol. I lent my mom most of my student loan to fix her car, and she's slowly paying me back...had I not loaned her the money I'd have a new computer tomorrow. Now I have to wait until January when she's paid me back >.< - Maybe sooner if I get financing from BB or Future Shop, although I'd rather BTO straight from apple.com/ca

thespyglass: Yes it is tomorrow

iMacmatician
Oct 13, 2008, 07:07 PM
Tomorrow's announcements will introduce a design that will be the look of Macbook and MB Pro for years. They will receive incremental processor upgrades but more exciting is the Macbook's combination of Nvidia and processor bump. I think Macworld will announce a significant MB Pro improvement while the design goes unchanged.I think both notebooks will get both design and spec updates. And by "spec updates," I mean something more than a speed bump. It makes no sense, and it hasn't been rumored, any other way.

Less than a day to go... :apple:

nope7308
Oct 13, 2008, 08:36 PM
After reading all of the post I would say you are due for a new laptop lol.

You have no idea how right you are. My first attempt at a reply to this thread resulted in the "Blue Screen of Death" (or something near enough) which lasted for about 5 minutes. Three manual shutdowns later and I'm up again (knock on wood). It's sad, but I've come to accept system crashes as an inevitability... Windows, you can eat my ass.

Yeah I'm in the same boat lol. I lent my mom most of my student loan to fix her car, and she's slowly paying me back...had I not loaned her the money I'd have a new computer tomorrow.

You're a very nice son, so take some consolation in that. Sadly, I'm also debating whether or not to use my OSAP funding to buy a MBP. It's almost become a necessity now because (1) my current computer is both handicapped and narcoleptic, (2) it's near impossible to find an available computer in the library, and (3) the MBP will allow me to jump-start my little side project to get some more money flowing in. On the other hand, I still have to pay for rent, food, and beer (none of which can be sacrificed). Decisions, decisions! It looks like I'll be asking for an intra-family loan and potentially a few more trips to the food bank at the end of the semester. Oh, the joys of being a student.

I never expected this thread to grow so large, so a big 'thank you' goes out to all the contributors! I hope everyone who read this found something useful.

Vivid.Inferno
Oct 13, 2008, 08:56 PM
You have no idea how right you are. My first attempt at a reply to this thread resulted in the "Blue Screen of Death" (or something near enough) which lasted for about 5 minutes. Three manual shutdowns later and I'm up again (knock on wood). It's sad, but I've come to accept system crashes as an inevitability... Windows, you can eat my ass.



You're a very nice son, so take some consolation in that. Sadly, I'm also debating whether or not to use my OSAP funding to buy a MBP. It's almost become a necessity now because (1) my current computer is both handicapped and narcoleptic, (2) it's near impossible to find an available computer in the library, and (3) the MBP will allow me to jump-start my little side project to get some more money flowing in. On the other hand, I still have to pay for rent, food, and beer (none of which can be sacrificed). Decisions, decisions! It looks like I'll be asking for an intra-family loan and potentially a few more trips to the food bank at the end of the semester. Oh, the joys of being a student.

I never expected this thread to grow so large, so a big 'thank you' goes out to all the contributors! I hope everyone who read this found something useful.

Yeah I'm attempting to work on that whole inra-family loan thing. It isn't going over so well. I also don't qualify for OSAP (god I hate OSAP). When I said loan it came from the RBC.


Are you at U of Guelph? My cousin is doing and English Major there.

nope7308
Oct 13, 2008, 09:16 PM
Yeah I'm attempting to work on that whole inra-family loan thing. It isn't going over so well. I also don't qualify for OSAP (god I hate OSAP). When I said loan it came from the RBC

Yeah, OSAP is a bitch. I didn't qualify for the longest time either (savings + line of credit kept me afloat). I actually have a HUGE beef with OSAP - they don't take into account whether YOU pay tuition and, at my school at least, the requirements for OSAP also determine financial need status (and thus eligibility for scholarships, bursaries, research positions, and on-campus work). Long story short, the middle class get no financial assistance, are ineligible for bursaries and 90% of scholarships, and are prevented from working on-campus to pay off debt.

In my program, research positions are based solely on financial need (not merit) and the only merit-based scholarship is a $150 book prize. Although I'm grateful for at least 1 merit-based award, books just don't pay the bills! What the hell is wrong with our educational system?

Sorry for the rant, but I feel better now :)

So, yeah, Oct 14th...

Are you at U of Guelph? My cousin is doing and English Major there.

Indeed, philosophy major though (hence my propensity to argue/complain at length).

nacengineer
Oct 13, 2008, 09:33 PM
So if you were in my position, and on a tight budget, would you buy the Oct. 14th revision or wait for the January Macworld revision?

Relevant Info:
From now until December, I do generic computing and intensive word processing (i.e. 1 essay per week). My i button barely works at the moment (and I use personal pronouns :mad:). I will definitely need the MBP by May at the latest so I can get my photography side-project back in full swing (not enough juice with the current computer).

If I were in that position I would wait until tomorrow and buy the one I want today through the Hot Deals or Clearance section of the online store. There will be a discount plus a full warranty and the option for Applecare.

SL will only work on Intel Core 2 Duo machines (most likely a these are 64bit chips). It will optimize the kernel to utilize the GPU's on the Graphics card and optimize.

Buy now if you need it now. Don't wait for SL. Upgrades on OS X aren't like upgrades on Windows. Generally they improve the machine speed and add new features and are greatly backwards compatible... to a point. In this case Core 2 Duo chips...

Sun Baked
Oct 13, 2008, 09:47 PM
At Macworld, we will get an estimated availabilty (aka, Summer) for a product previewed by Steve as a coming attraction.

4-6 weeks before shipment Apple will officially announce Snow Leopard -- this is when you will know that you can buy a new machine and get a copy of Snow Leopard inside the box or for $5 or 19.95 (whatever the Up-to-Date pricing ends up as.)

Until Apple Officially Announces it, the ETA is a SWAG.

---

Until Apple "Officially Announces Snow Leopard" when you buy a machine, you will pay the full $129 price.

Buy after the announcement, then you will qualify for the Mac-up-to-date pricing. Buy a couple days to 14 days before the announcement, and cry on the phone and they may give you up-to-date pricing.

Vivid.Inferno
Oct 13, 2008, 09:51 PM
Yeah, OSAP is a bitch. I didn't qualify for the longest time either (savings + line of credit kept me afloat). I actually have a HUGE beef with OSAP - they don't take into account whether YOU pay tuition and, at my school at least, the requirements for OSAP also determine financial need status (and thus eligibility for scholarships, bursaries, research positions, and on-campus work). Long story short, the middle class get no financial assistance, are ineligible for bursaries and 90% of scholarships, and are prevented from working on-campus to pay off debt.

In my program, research positions are based solely on financial need (not merit) and the only merit-based scholarship is a $150 book prize. Although I'm grateful for at least 1 merit-based award, books just don't pay the bills! What the hell is wrong with our educational system?

Sorry for the rant, but I feel better now :)

So, yeah, Oct 14th...



Indeed, philosophy major though (hence my propensity to argue/complain at length).


Hahaha, yeah, I am in the EXACT same position. My stepdad owns an Insurance Brokerage, some years he does well, others not so much. Last year he made around 90k, thus no OSAP for me. The part that really makes me mad, is that he never adopted me, so I'm not legally his child. AND he won't pay any part of my education because I'm not his child. I'm drive an hour each way every day to get to my class, so I'm paying gas, and $7 a day for parking, plus the parking at the hospital I'm doing my clinical placement at (I'm a nursing student). Oh yeah, one semester, 7 text books, $1000.

/rant. I feel better now too lol.