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MacRumors
Oct 15, 2008, 05:08 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Notably absent from the new MacBook Pro releases yesterday was an refresh of the 17" MacBook Pro. Instead, Apple provided a minor upgrade (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2008/10/14macbook.html) to the high-end MacBook Pro but with no change in external casing:The updated 17-inch MacBook Pro keeps its original aluminum design, and now comes standard with a high resolution 1920 x 1200 LED-backlit display and a larger 320GB hard drive or an optional 128GB solid state drive.As a result, there had been some uncertainty surrounding the fate of the new 17" MacBook Pro.

AppleInsider says (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/10/15/apples_next_gen_17_inch_macbook_pro_due_in_a_few_months.html), however, that the 17" MacBook Pro will see a refresh in the next few months to bring it in line with the latest MacBook Pro designs. The next opportunity for Apple to release new machines falls in January 2009 at Macworld San Francisco.


Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/10/15/17-macbook-pro-to-be-updated-in-a-few-months/)



Mykbibby
Oct 15, 2008, 05:10 PM
What a joke. You can't tell me Apple couldn't have released these yesterday.

And the wait continues...

Bentron
Oct 15, 2008, 05:11 PM
And so the MWSF 09 rumor train has departed... ;)

Works4Me
Oct 15, 2008, 05:11 PM
I hope they come with a matte option for the display, but I doubt they will.

LaDirection
Oct 15, 2008, 05:12 PM
Apple's HD Laptop, it's regular Cinema Display line, the Mac Pro and DVD Studio Pro will ALL be updated once Apple's and Sony's dispute over Apple's refusal to include Kernel-level AACS Blu-Ray protection are resolved.

If the rumors of 10.5.6 including Blu-Ray support are true, this has already happened.

grue
Oct 15, 2008, 05:13 PM
Looks like the glossy trash becomes standard on the 17", but it can be ordered with matte as a no-cost option…

RayK
Oct 15, 2008, 05:13 PM
Here's hoping they'll at least leave FW400 on the 17" model.

FJ218700
Oct 15, 2008, 05:13 PM
What a joke. You can't tell me Apple couldn't have released these yesterday.

And the wait continues...

with the recent economic down turn, they might just have a surplus of the current 17 inch form-factor.

Hertog
Oct 15, 2008, 05:15 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)
The next opportunity for Apple to release new machines falls in January 2009 at Macworld San Francisco.


Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/10/15/17-macbook-pro-to-be-updated-in-a-few-months/)

That's not quite true. Apple does release new machines at special events or on 'normal tuesdays'. I think it is possible for a 17" MacBook Pro to be introduced with a store update. Especially since it probably won't spot any exciting new features, just the same new case but in a larger size. I don't think Steve would want to say 'Look, everything you already know and love in a 15" MacBook Pro, but with two more inches, and you only had to wait four months for it'.

grue
Oct 15, 2008, 05:18 PM
Here's hoping they'll at least leave FW400 on the 17" model.

Why? I mean, sure, maybe two FW800 ports, but leaving on FW400 would be pointless.

bobbleheadbob
Oct 15, 2008, 05:20 PM
If these wait until MWSF, then there's got to be something bigger than just 17" MBP's in January, doesn't there?

pismodude2
Oct 15, 2008, 05:20 PM
Touchscreen, Blue-ray, and GPS or no deal Jobso!

miketcool
Oct 15, 2008, 05:21 PM
Dear Jobs,

I have only one request for the forthcoming notebook display:

MATTE

I AM A DIGITAL PHOTOGRAPHER, DO NOT MAKE ME LOOK ELSEWHERE FOR A PRO LAPTOP. GLOSSY IS UNACCEPTABLE IN THE FIELD, PLEASE TAKE NOTE.

Michael

grue
Oct 15, 2008, 05:21 PM
Touchscreen, Blue-ray, and GPS or no deal Jobso!

Keep dreaming

MKnight
Oct 15, 2008, 05:22 PM
Why? I mean, sure, maybe two FW800 ports, but leaving on FW400 would be pointless.

Exactly...

I'd rather have 2 firewire 800 ports. You can just get the adapter cable anyways.

Chaos123x
Oct 15, 2008, 05:23 PM
since many video pros use the 17inch I could see Apple removing firewire altogether so they can spite the video crowd that has supported them all these years that way apple can hang out with cool iPod kids instead.

rikers_mailbox
Oct 15, 2008, 05:24 PM
I don't like how the notebook lineup has been fragmented with the latest release. The failure to update the 17" MB and to still offer the previous white MacBook has created a strange combination of notebook offerings.

I hope Apple cleans up their notebook lines soon. Update the 17" to match the new model MBs. And discontinue or rebrand the previous MacBook to be an inexpensive consumer/education market notebook (like what iBook was to PowerBook).

zedsdead
Oct 15, 2008, 05:24 PM
I also hope that the Macbook Air gets the glass trackpad and the black boarder with the all glass to bring it in line with the rest of the computers.

We all know the 17" is coming, it's just a matter of when.

electricfiddle
Oct 15, 2008, 05:24 PM
Will Apple remove the FW800 port from the 17" version since they seem to going backwards here??? Just like deciding to exclude the FW400 from the Macbook which the previous version offered. There are still MANY Audio/Visual customers who rely on FW based products! :apple:

apple2E
Oct 15, 2008, 05:25 PM
Why? I mean, sure, maybe two FW800 ports, but leaving on FW400 would be pointless.

I don't know about "pointless" but I have 2 Canon XH A1 HDV cameras and a few external HD's here that wouldn't mind being hooked up without an adaptor.

Srai-W
Oct 15, 2008, 05:25 PM
I think they will probably update the 17" just through the store which will then leave the the iMac, Mac Mini and the pro to be updated at MWSF. Sounds like a plan - oh, except that will mean what? A 2 year wait for the Mini. :confused:

pgifford
Oct 15, 2008, 05:25 PM
I can wait a few months. I hope they add a matte screen option.

unity
Oct 15, 2008, 05:26 PM
I wonder if they just did not, could not setup production for both 15" casings and 17".

RHD
Oct 15, 2008, 05:26 PM
Yeah, glossy hi res screen only so you really get eye strain trying to see the tiny menus through the glare, and no firewire 400 so none of your external hard drives will work.
Making my dodgy nvidea 8600 graphics chip look good.

bj3949
Oct 15, 2008, 05:27 PM
Good! I was waiting for some news on this bull honky.
I agree that Apple will announce this as an Apple Store update probably in December of this year. I will be first online to customize and buy mine. I also hope they have enough demand by then to include a matte version.
Can't wait!

Is anyone wondering what they could possibly be announcing at Macworld 2009 this time? I mean iPhone 3G is still new, the MacBooks are brand spanking new, the cinema display is brand spanking new besides other size screens, and the iMac is not ready for a new look yet. Steve said that touch screen laptops and displays "don't make sense right now", so what could it be? Good 'ol Mac Pro update? Boring.............

bDoc
Oct 15, 2008, 05:27 PM
All I want is for Apple to Listen. A numerous amount of people just don't like the design period. To me it looks like a HP from 2 years ago. If apple does anything do the following.

1. Don't make the keyboards black on the 17' or a least give an option of keyboard color. Silver or Black
2. Add the firewire ports
3. Make the Matte finish an option (I do heavy design and matte is needed)
4.Blu-Ray if possible.

Although I still don't like the black border (personal opinion) I might be able to deal with it. Other than that. Are those things much to ask for on a development machine?

Eric S.
Oct 15, 2008, 05:27 PM
If these wait until MWSF, then there's got to be something bigger than just 17" MBP's in January, doesn't there?

New mini ! ;)

Lershac
Oct 15, 2008, 05:27 PM
Every day be an opportunity to release new products... not to be nitpicky (yeah this is nitpicky) but poor choice of words.

mBox
Oct 15, 2008, 05:29 PM
Exactly...

I'd rather have 2 firewire 800 ports. You can just get the adapter cable anyways.I havent tried this but someone suggested to daisy-chain the units. We went ahead and ordered the 15". Ill test it with an XDCAM and GRAID2. Ill do a sniff test first :P
LOL

grue
Oct 15, 2008, 05:29 PM
I don't know about "pointless" but I have 2 Canon XH A1 HDV cameras and a few external HD's here that wouldn't mind being hooked up without an adaptor.

Honestly, the standard itself is completely backwards compatible and the 800-400 cables are readily available. It'd be ludicrous to hold back the people who can use 2 800 ports just to appease the people who don't want to spend $25 on a cable. Then again, Apple hates professional users now apparently, so maybe they'll go back to ADB and serial.

Rocketman
Oct 15, 2008, 05:30 PM
The MBP 17 is the "luggable" of the Apple portable line (think Kaypro :) ).

The features added to the 15" suit professionals who need a capable machine for content ingestion and editing in the field and in most cases, except the most remote or portable, can actually use the new external display as well.

The 17" is lower priority, but when it is updated, how many graphics processors will it have and will Snow Leopard support?

Let's poll, with an eye to encouraging Apple to make it 3-4!

Rocketman

Apple should make a .n/USB/FW case that takes Blue-Ray from a third party supplier to solve the Blu-Ray whining. BTW is the new FW connector software upgradable to 3200? USB connector to USB3? I am curious.

unity
Oct 15, 2008, 05:30 PM
Dear Jobs,

I have only one request for the forthcoming notebook display:

MATTE

I AM A DIGITAL PHOTOGRAPHER, DO NOT MAKE ME LOOK ELSEWHERE FOR A PRO LAPTOP. GLOSSY IS UNACCEPTABLE IN THE FIELD, PLEASE TAKE NOTE.

Michael

Well seeing that you can buy a matte sheet to put over it, whats the big deal? Not inly will it be a screen protector it will inaccurately render the colors just like you are used to!

www.photodon.com/lcdprotect-sheet.htm


But for us REAL photographers, the gloss screen is nice for the dirty work then brining it to our dark lab for color accuracy.

electricfiddle
Oct 15, 2008, 05:31 PM
since many video pros use the 17inch I could see Apple removing firewire altogether so they can spite the video crowd that has supported them all these years that way apple can hang out with cool iPod kids instead.


Please add the Audio crowd to that group... :apple:

grue
Oct 15, 2008, 05:31 PM
All I want is for Apple to Listen. A numerous amount of people just don't like the design period. To me it looks like a HP from 2 years ago. If apple does anything do the following.

1. Don't make the keyboards black on the 17' or a least give an option of keyboard color. Silver or Black
2. Add the firewire ports
3. Make the Matte finish an option (I do heavy design and matte is needed)
4.Blu-Ray if possible.

Although I still don't like the black border (personal opinion) I might be able to deal with it. Other than that. Are those things much to ask for on a development machine?

Honestly, that one is. Why have two different parts just for vanity reasons?

2 & 3 are mandatory if they're not completely retarded.

4… that's been addressed.

MattInOz
Oct 15, 2008, 05:34 PM
That's not quite true. Apple does release new machines at special events or on 'normal tuesdays'. I think it is possible for a 17" MacBook Pro to be introduced with a store update. Especially since it probably won't spot any exciting new features, just the same new case but in a larger size. I don't think Steve would want to say 'Look, everything you already know and love in a 15" MacBook Pro, but with two more inches, and you only had to wait four months for it'.

Yep they could throw on the front page in about a month.
You have to keep new stuff coming the front page to keep the eyes coming back.
Randomely dropping new stuff keeps you in peoples minds.

Mac Mini & MacBook Pro 17 updates would make an interesting pairing.

!ˇ V ˇ!
Oct 15, 2008, 05:34 PM
If there is no option but glossy for the 17" then I will not be updating my hardware until Apple smartens up and offers options again. :p

Besides OS 10.6, OS 10.7 and possible OS 10.8 will still run on this SR MBP for a while. Until that time the notebook line will be overhauled again.

Conclusion, I will have a bigger savings account. :D

miketcool
Oct 15, 2008, 05:35 PM
Well seeing that you can buy a matte sheet to put over it, whats the big deal? Not inly will it be a screen protector it will inaccurately render the colors just like you are used to!

www.photodon.com/lcdprotect-sheet.htm


But for us REAL photographers, the gloss screen is nice for the dirty work then brining it to our dark lab for color accuracy.

I think I mentioned FIELD, you photo journalist/blogger hater. ;)

macffooky
Oct 15, 2008, 05:35 PM
In that case are we to assume that NVidia really have changed their manufacturing process or are Apple really going to continue offering a product they know and have publicly admitted to be defective ?

KilljoyPBN
Oct 15, 2008, 05:37 PM
Apple's HD Laptop, it's regular Cinema Display line, the Mac Pro and DVD Studio Pro will ALL be updated once Apple's and Sony's dispute over Apple's refusal to include Kernel-level AACS Blu-Ray protection are resolved.

If the rumors of 10.5.6 including Blu-Ray support are true, this has already happened.

Haha what? Where exactly did you hear this?

grue
Oct 15, 2008, 05:37 PM
In that case are we to assume that NVidia really have changed their manufacturing process or are Apple really going to continue offering a product they know and have publicly admitted to be defective ?

the new units do not use the G92 chipset that was failing…

Eidorian
Oct 15, 2008, 05:38 PM
Time to hunker down with my Macbook then.

NT1440
Oct 15, 2008, 05:38 PM
with the recent economic down turn, they might just have a surplus of the current 17 inch form-factor.

I think it has to do more with manufacturing the screens at 17" all that big rounded glass....


Your idea deffinatly holds ground tho.

Maybe the new 17" will actually be better than the 15 in some new way? (mehbe bluray?)

gifford
Oct 15, 2008, 05:39 PM
My bets they release a cheapo macbook at the same time

Stridder44
Oct 15, 2008, 05:39 PM
Touchscreen, Blue-ray, and GPS or no deal Jobso!

You're kidding right? Why do you need a touchscreen? Blu-ray on a notebook? GPS? What industry do you work in again?

Will Apple remove the FW800 port from the 17" version since they seem to going backwards here??? Just like deciding to exclude the FW400 from the Macbook which the previous version offered. There are still MANY Audio/Visual customers who rely on FW based products! :apple:

Audio/visual customers aren't buy Macbooks. And no, they won't take FW800 away (I know you were just being a smart ass though). FW800, if I remember correctly, is the same port FW3200 will use (and is backwards compatible). You can always get a cheap little FW400 to FW800 adapter.

polar-blair
Oct 15, 2008, 05:39 PM
If it does take that long for the update to be drawn out to MWSF blu-ray really should be included in the 17" but I dont see why apple has to have a special event for bring the 17" models up to date with the 15"s

Now October 14th has happened I wonder what rumours will start up now for MWSF

drachir24
Oct 15, 2008, 05:39 PM
Dear Steve

I wait for 17 but I want fw 3200.If you did'nt give eSATA give me fw 3200 please.

apple2E
Oct 15, 2008, 05:40 PM
Honestly, the standard itself is completely backwards compatible and the 800-400 cables are readily available. It'd be ludicrous to hold back the people who can use 2 800 ports just to appease the people who don't want to spend $25 on a cable. Then again, Apple hates professional users now apparently, so maybe they'll go back to ADB and serial.

very true...Of course I'm going to end up buying tons of cables but my camera crew and editors swap cables and borrow things all the time. At fast times of need...ease of use or accessibility counts a lot for professionals on the go. Why not have both?

Chaos123x
Oct 15, 2008, 05:41 PM
Since apple hates creative pros nowdays I could see them killing the 17 inch altogether. Maybe even kill the Mac Pro tower while there at it.

Sesshi
Oct 15, 2008, 05:42 PM
As much as I hate contributing in any way to the drooling Applezombie rumour mill, it could well be that they are waiting for wider availability of suitable RGBLED displays. I'm having to wait for Dell to ship the Precision M6400 with the 17" RGBLED display.

And those of you wishing for silver keys, you've never used a backlit black key vs a silver one, have you? The penny might drop if you do. I've been wanting them to change it for two years. (And of course, they have to do it when I'm ridding myself of my Macs).

agbot
Oct 15, 2008, 05:42 PM
Dear Jobs,

I have only one request for the forthcoming notebook display:

MATTE

I AM A DIGITAL PHOTOGRAPHER, DO NOT MAKE ME LOOK ELSEWHERE FOR A PRO LAPTOP. GLOSSY IS UNACCEPTABLE IN THE FIELD, PLEASE TAKE NOTE.

Michael

I've seen posts by other "digital photographers" who says they can't see jack on a matte screen in the field but have much better experience with glossy. It's not quite a universal truth that matte is required for digital media pros. Personally, it's nearly impossible for me to see anything at all on my matte display outside at any angle. With glossy, as long as I'm not reflecting the sun into my face I can see what I'm doing.

I'm sure Apple crunched the numbers and knows that of the (apparent) minority that preferred matte over glossy, an even small number of those would actually go buy a Windows laptop for that sole reason. Will you? Perhaps. However, there seem to be a decent number people who say they're "in the business" and are perfectly pleased with their correctly calibrated glossy displays. Regardless, would have been nice of them not to kill the matte option.

angemon89
Oct 15, 2008, 05:42 PM
LMAO, it's always the day after a keynote that rumors start spreading for what's coming in the next keynote!

strikeinsilence
Oct 15, 2008, 05:42 PM
Hopefully Steve doesn't take up precious MWSF 09 keynote time to talk about a 17" MBP that's just like the 15", if that's the case. C'mon Apple, surprise us.

NT1440
Oct 15, 2008, 05:43 PM
Since apple hates creative pros nowdays I could see them killing the 17 inch altogether. Maybe even kill the Mac Pro tower while there at it.

I love how the progressions go on this forum.

huh wheres the firewire? --> damn i wish there was firewire---> i guess apple doesnt like firewire anymore---> ZOMG!!11elevn! teh appels hatez teh pros!!!


(exaggeration of course, but the unwarranted assumptions on this site are rediculous)

RayK
Oct 15, 2008, 05:45 PM
Exactly...

I'd rather have 2 firewire 800 ports. You can just get the adapter cable anyways.
Just one more cable to carry or keep track of... Not looking for that with my laptop.

troller
Oct 15, 2008, 05:45 PM
this upgrade drama seems to be more and more just a consumer joke. What is the next apple "event" about ? MacBook Pro Update....now with a blue or green power button.......what a SENSATION !!!

VinitaBoy
Oct 15, 2008, 05:45 PM
The most reliable way to get Apple to make your MacBooks EXACTLY the way you all want 'em? Don't buy 'em! It's just that simple.

Go into your nearest Apple retail outlet, fawn all over one right in front of a sales rep . . . and then walk out muttering about the lack of FireWire, matte screens, card readers, blue ray, and the like. If a million people do that every week worldwide, your opinion WILL register. Without question.

Vote with your feet, folks. But bitching and griping on sites like these does very little good at all. Give 'em some DIRECT, FACE-TO-FACE feedback! Do something mature and positive!

grue
Oct 15, 2008, 05:47 PM
very true...Of course I'm going to end up buying tons of cables but my camera crew and editors swap cables and borrow things all the time. At fast times of need...ease of use or accessibility counts a lot for professionals on the go. Why not have both?

Because 800 goes back to 400. 400 goes not go forward to 800. It'd be like having DVI and VGA on a laptop.

angemon89
Oct 15, 2008, 05:47 PM
this upgrade drama seems to be more and more just a consumer joke. What is the next apple "event" about ? MacBook Pro Update....now with a blue or green power button.......what a SENSATION !!!Stop trolling, troller!



haha jk, but yeah, I kinda agree with you.

Object-X
Oct 15, 2008, 05:47 PM
I don't get the whole "uncertainty" angle. It would be ridiculous of Apple to phase it out, so the obvious reason for it's no-show is some type of unresolved issue, that Apple obviously doesn't want to talk about. It will arrive when it's ready. This has happened before. In fact, I think it was the 17" Macbook Pro if I recall.

Quillz
Oct 15, 2008, 05:48 PM
My bets they release a cheapo macbook at the same time
I disagree. I think the $999 polycarbonate MacBook is still in the lineup only to clear out inventory, and once it's gone, it's gone. I think that $1,299 will ultimately become the new entry level price.

grue
Oct 15, 2008, 05:48 PM
I've seen posts by other "digital photographers" who says they can't see jack on a matte screen in the field but have much better experience with glossy. It's not quite a universal truth that matte is required for digital media pros. Personally, it's nearly impossible for me to see anything at all on my matte display outside at any angle. With glossy, as long as I'm not reflecting the sun into my face I can see what I'm doing.

I'm sure Apple crunched the numbers and knows that of the (apparent) minority that preferred matte over glossy, an even small number of those would actually go buy a Windows laptop for that sole reason. Will you? Perhaps. However, there seem to be a decent number people who say they're "in the business" and are perfectly pleased with their correctly calibrated glossy displays. Regardless, would have been nice of them not to kill the matte option.

It's sort of a mixed position. Glossy sucks less in bright conditions like being outside, but it's a bag of suck and fail in terms of actual colour accuracy.

sku
Oct 15, 2008, 05:50 PM
give us a matte cinema display and DVI port.

strikeinsilence
Oct 15, 2008, 05:50 PM
I've seen posts by other "digital photographers" who says they can't see jack on a matte screen in the field but have much better experience with glossy. It's not quite a universal truth that matte is required for digital media pros. Personally, it's nearly impossible for me to see anything at all on my matte display outside at any angle. With glossy, as long as I'm not reflecting the sun into my face I can see what I'm doing.

It doesn't really matter who prefers which, the fact is that a bunch of people like glossy AND a bunch of people like matte. No longer having a choice is what sucks.

The funny thing is that all MBP's I've have had crap displays anyways. The old PB displays might not have been too bright, but they were a lot better quality then the ones today.

bmorris
Oct 15, 2008, 05:51 PM
Why? I mean, sure, maybe two FW800 ports, but leaving on FW400 would be pointless.

yeah i thot the same

apple2E
Oct 15, 2008, 05:51 PM
Because 800 goes back to 400. 400 goes not go forward to 800. It'd be like having DVI and VGA on a laptop.

Exactly my reasoning for answering "VERY TRUE". I also stated the fact that I intend on purchasing extra cables. I really believe that fw400 isn't dead yet. There is use for it also. I would love both ports...

reallynotnick
Oct 15, 2008, 05:52 PM
You also forgot the 17in now comes with 4GB of ram up from 2GB.

miketcool
Oct 15, 2008, 05:52 PM
I've seen posts by other "digital photographers" who says they can't see jack on a matte screen in the field but have much better experience with glossy. It's not quite a universal truth that matte is required for digital media pros. Personally, it's nearly impossible for me to see anything at all on my matte display outside at any angle. With glossy, as long as I'm not reflecting the sun into my face I can see what I'm doing.

I'm sure Apple crunched the numbers and knows that of the (apparent) minority that preferred matte over glossy, an even small number of those would actually go buy a Windows laptop for that sole reason. Will you? Perhaps. However, there seem to be a decent number people who say they're "in the business" and are perfectly pleased with their correctly calibrated glossy displays. Regardless, would have been nice of them not to kill the matte option.

If they are boasting a brighter, higher definition display, I do not want the reflections. I am not threatening to pickup a windows desktop, I will make do with the last of the Macbooks offering me matte for the time being. Down the road who knows. If I need a field laptop and I cannot get a matte option from Apple, oh well, I don't mind switching back to Lightroom.

But I am speaking for many other design pros who do work in the field. Whether that is meeting clients for lunch or working outside of the office in a coffee shop; I DONT WANT GLARE. Sure, I have been unhappy at times with the brightness of my display, but I DONT HAVE GLARE NOW. Sun isnt the only nuisance when it comes to glare, it is almost EVERYTHING well illuminated. I think leaving this option out is a big mistake for a machine aimed at a PRO user base.

You can have glossy, I am only interested in US that do not want glossy to be MANDATORY. I do not care what numbers were crunched, this is still a PRO machine and should still have options for a PRO display.

liquid stereo
Oct 15, 2008, 05:53 PM
Matte. Please, please, please.

Loge
Oct 15, 2008, 05:53 PM
Good! I was waiting for some news on this bull honky.
I agree that Apple will announce this as an Apple Store update probably in December of this year. I will be first online to customize and buy mine. I also hope they have enough demand by then to include a matte version.
Can't wait!


The article suggest months rather than weeks. I think that means MW2009 at the earliest. Updates in December are pretty rare anyway. If it was a matter of weeks, Apple would just have announced it on the 14th with a later shipping date.

element1108
Oct 15, 2008, 05:53 PM
I just received my macbook Pro 15". First off I LOVE it. I'm replacing my old 12" Macbook Pro from 03 or 04 (can't remember).

It's a welcomed upgrade to the macbook pro line if you ask me. All i wanted from the macbook was an upgraded processor, graphics card, standard Ram and more standard HD space...that's what i got plus a new case design etc.

I've been in the market for a new laptop for awhile now but seeing as the last update was Jan/Feb 08 I figured one was due out in the next few months, Macrumors confirmed those suspicions so I waited.

There's a wish list and there's reality. If you need a new laptop then this one WILL NOT DISAPPOINT. Even if you're not a fan of "glossy" screen...the LED is extremely bright and crisp and I've not had a problem with reflections. Using a laptop in the glaring sun even with a matte screen is impossible so I don't know what the big deal is. You can always hook it up to an LCD screen anyway or wear polorized sunglasses when you're outside using it.

You can't satisfy everyone but I've been satisfied with every single mac I've ever owned and will continue to support it's development.

bmorris
Oct 15, 2008, 05:53 PM
I don't like how the notebook lineup has been fragmented with the latest release. The failure to update the 17" MB and to still offer the previous white MacBook has created a strange combination of notebook offerings.

I hope Apple cleans up their notebook lines soon. Update the 17" to match the new model MBs. And discontinue or rebrand the previous MacBook to be an inexpensive consumer/education market notebook (like what iBook was to PowerBook).

yeah theres som weird branding there

!ˇ V ˇ!
Oct 15, 2008, 05:54 PM
I disagree. I think the $999 polycarbonate MacBook is still in the lineup only to clear out inventory, and once it's gone, it's gone. I think that $1,299 will ultimately become the new entry level price.

What a joke? :rolleyes:

Apple Market Share plummets back to ~5% with the recession talk and all. Plus offering they consumers no choice. Seems the only factor keeping them a float is the iPhone and iPods, wonder how long that will last once the "cool factor" dies. :rolleyes:

Time for a hackintosh. ;):D

miketcool
Oct 15, 2008, 05:57 PM
What a joke? :rolleyes:

Apple Market Share plummets back to ~5% with the recession talk and all. Plus offering they consumers no choice. Seems the only factor keeping them a float is the iPhone and iPods, wonder how long that will last once the "cool factor" dies. :rolleyes:

Time for a hackintosh. ;):D

All this talk of recession. Too bad consumer spending is still moving along at a steady pace. When that changes, consumer luxuries will change. And hey! If we all elect socialists, we can expect another tax cut (tax credit) to spend on more luxury items. BRILLIANT!

Apple and the rest will change their pricing points when people can no longer afford it. That won't be for awhile...

iBlender
Oct 15, 2008, 05:58 PM
Am I the only one in the US that got free ipod touch and a printer with my new version Macbook?

electricfiddle
Oct 15, 2008, 05:58 PM
You're kidding right? Why do you need a touchscreen? Blu-ray on a notebook? GPS? What industry do you work in again?



Audio/visual customers aren't buy Macbooks. And no, they won't take FW800 away (I know you were just being a smart ass though). FW800, if I remember correctly, is the same port FW3200 will use (and is backwards compatible). You can always get a cheap little FW400 to FW800 adapter.

Not true... I know of many who edit on the go with a Macbook who already have a Mac Pro "tower"... :apple:

UTclassof89
Oct 15, 2008, 05:59 PM
Definitely agree with the need for a matt screen (I'm a teacher and watch as all my students with newer Macs struggle to reduce glare under the fluorescent lights). I haven't noticed anyone remark on Apple omitting the video connector from the new laptop lineup--that's now a $30 expense if you want to use that fancy new mini-video port to connect to a projector!

Fast Shadow
Oct 15, 2008, 05:59 PM
Apple did the same thing when they switched from Ti to Al for the Powerbooks. The 12" and 17" Powerbooks were introduced together, and the 15" was still Titanium. The 15" switch to Al didn't happen for another 6 months.

bmorris
Oct 15, 2008, 06:01 PM
Well seeing that you can buy a matte sheet to put over it, whats the big deal? Not inly will it be a screen protector it will inaccurately render the colors just like you are used to!

www.photodon.com/lcdprotect-sheet.htm


But for us REAL photographers, the gloss screen is nice for the dirty work then brining it to our dark lab for color accuracy.

hahah nice!
too bad film is dying.
its sad.

LogicPro74
Oct 15, 2008, 06:01 PM
I went and snatched up a 15" today and was sad to find out that the 2.8 was special order only. Since then I have been stuck at work unable to even unbox it yet :(

LP74

ageha
Oct 15, 2008, 06:02 PM
I can wait a few months. I hope they add a matte screen option.

I doubt that as long as they place the camera behind the glass.

poppe
Oct 15, 2008, 06:02 PM
And so the MWSF 09 rumor train has departed... ;)

Best post ever!

bmorris
Oct 15, 2008, 06:04 PM
I think I mentioned FIELD, you photo journalist/blogger hater. ;)

field? try not using ur laptop or ur digital cam's display.
it can be done.

twoodcc
Oct 15, 2008, 06:04 PM
well, this doesn't make apple look very good. they should have just released it yesterday

hikaru nakamura
Oct 15, 2008, 06:07 PM
I understand a lot of people out there are not too happy with the glossy screen. I personally have not had a problem with mine on my Macbook anywhere (inside or out). I did however like the idea that Apple gave you the choice. The only thing I don't understand is the the amount of people b*tching about the lack of FW400 on new notebooks. Honestly most consumer devices you buy will be connected to the Macbook via USB. On top of that the Pro models are marketed towards professionals and they want to make it as efficient as possible. I have a feeling that Apple believes that the FW400 will start to be made less and less while support will move to FW800 & FW3200 because it moves data faster making it a more efficient option for the professional work place.

Nepenthe
Oct 15, 2008, 06:08 PM
Is anyone wondering what they could possibly be announcing at Macworld 2009 this time? I mean iPhone 3G is still new, the MacBooks are brand spanking new, the cinema display is brand spanking new besides other size screens, and the iMac is not ready for a new look yet. Steve said that touch screen laptops and displays "don't make sense right now", so what could it be? Good 'ol Mac Pro update? Boring.............

These seem realistic to me.
- OS 10.6
- MacPro + Nehalem
- iPhone nano
- Displays (?)
- Some other product update (Apple TV, MacMini... ?)
- Some big "Conceptual" update that they don't expect most people to get right away.

Quillz
Oct 15, 2008, 06:08 PM
What a joke? :rolleyes:

Apple Market Share plummets back to ~5% with the recession talk and all. Plus offering they consumers no choice. Seems the only factor keeping them a float is the iPhone and iPods, wonder how long that will last once the "cool factor" dies. :rolleyes:

Time for a hackintosh. ;):D
What makes it a joke? Do you not remember less than a decade ago when Apple's entry-level consumer notebook pricing started at $1,599? Do you not remember when the top-of-the-line 17'' PowerBook used to start at $3,299? Apple has never been one for "budget pricing," and $1,299 would actually be one of their lower entry level prices.

Rocketman
Oct 15, 2008, 06:09 PM
Matte. Please, please, please.

http://www.powersupportusa.com/products/ef.php?category=pb

bilbo--baggins
Oct 15, 2008, 06:13 PM
Is anyone wondering what they could possibly be announcing at Macworld 2009 this time?

I hope it will be MacBook revisions - with TWO firewire 400 ports.

donga
Oct 15, 2008, 06:14 PM
so they just gave up on 17" sales? who is actually going to buy a new 17" mbp when they know (yes know) that new ones are just a few months away.

MagicWok
Oct 15, 2008, 06:14 PM
I popped into the Regent Street store in London after work today, and had a good look at the 15" MBP amoungst the scrum. I was impressed, all minus the screen. The build quality is fantastic and I do prefer it to the older design now I have seen it in person. The old design looked a little aged next to it, but still stunning of course. :p

Anyhow, I was eavesdropping on a conservation between two people and an employee there. They mentioned to him they heard of some new laptops and came down to check. He asked what they were looking to use the laptops for... They replied that it was for their son who has just started university doing a graphic design course (my ears always pick up those two words no matter how noisy the surroundings :P lol).

Anyway there was a short pause as he looked at them. He then said something I didn't quite believe. He told them that he would advise against the new laptops. He continued to say that he would recommend the 17" model simply because the colours aren't accurate on the new ones compared to the older one, mentioning they could only get the matte option on the 17" models. I would have thought the employees would have been asked to push the new MBP's, but it didn't appear like that in this case anyhow. They all ambled off to the table with the 17" MBP's a table away and out of ear-shot, no idea how it went down from there.

Yes I know they could be ordered to clear 17" stock - but I appreciate the honesty from the Apple guy and find it amusing that the screen issue, which seem irrelevant to some people on MR, forced a potential sale away from the new MBP format to the old one.

Just thought I'd share and stoke the fires a bit more lol :cool:

unkle77
Oct 15, 2008, 06:14 PM
yay....

now we get to hear nonstop speculations and rumors about this now.

think i am going to stop visiting this site for awhile now... it really has gotten out of control.

cjmagee
Oct 15, 2008, 06:15 PM
I wonder whether the wait is to allow access to quad core mobile chips...

Plus wouldn't it be nice if the nice glass touchpad was an actual display like the iphone, maybe a version of the dock on it?

Oh and one more thing..

i have no preference over matte or glossy.;)

I shall return to lurking now

eric_n_dfw
Oct 15, 2008, 06:19 PM
Personally, I love my 17" glossy screen and use it in all sorts of lighting conditions, mainly for Java software development with occasional Final Cut Pro and iPhoto work. I understand the problem people have with the lack of a choice though.

I'd assume that they've been selling more of the glossy screens so they're trying to save money by standardizing on it. If they offered the option for matte for a premium price (because it's a special order), would you still be as upset with Apple?

macffooky
Oct 15, 2008, 06:21 PM
the new units do not use the G92 chipset that was failing…

That's great news but what's your source ?

strikeinsilence
Oct 15, 2008, 06:25 PM
Honestly most consumer devices you buy will be connected to the Macbook via USB. On top of that the Pro models are marketed towards professionals and they want to make it as efficient as possible. I have a feeling that Apple believes that the FW400 will start to be made less and less while support will move to FW800 & FW3200 because it moves data faster making it a more efficient option for the professional work place.

I agree, the same way they pushed everything to optical drives and killed the floppy with the G3 iMac. The only thing is that they left MB buyers high and dry with no support for FW800. So the got rid of the old port, but didn't give them the new one.

Loge
Oct 15, 2008, 06:28 PM
Yes I know they could be ordered to clear 17" stock - but I appreciate the honesty from the Apple guy and find it amusing that the screen issue, which seem irrelevant to some people on MR, forced a potential sale away from the new MBP format to the old one.

Just thought I'd share and stoke the fires a bit more lol :cool:

I was there today too and I was really suprised how many 17" models were on display - I expected to find just a few, around all the new models.

ageha
Oct 15, 2008, 06:29 PM
I agree, the same way they pushed everything to optical drives and killed the floppy with the G3 iMac. The only thing is that they left MB buyers high and dry with no support for FW800. So the got rid of the old port, but didn't give them the new one.

They're waiting for USB3.

RHD
Oct 15, 2008, 06:31 PM
deleted post and my it's hard work!

Dreamer2go
Oct 15, 2008, 06:33 PM
http://www.powersupportusa.com/products/ef.php?category=pb

THIS DOES NOT MAKE THE SCREEN Matte.
It actually makes the screen worse....(the color and the contrasts)
Do people like you not get it?

I'm using an imac right this moment in my university's library. And guess what. I can see my damn sweater I'm wearing at this very moment. It DOESNT HAPPEN at all with matte screens.

You may like it
But a lot of people do not. Look at the complaints and such in this forum.
It's the lack-of-option that is making people unhappy, not Matte is better than glossy.

!ˇ V ˇ!
Oct 15, 2008, 06:34 PM
What makes it a joke? Do you not remember less than a decade ago when Apple's entry-level consumer notebook pricing started at $1,599? Do you not remember when the top-of-the-line 17'' PowerBook used to start at $3,299? Apple has never been one for "budget pricing," and $1,299 would actually be one of their lower entry level prices.

I have been a long time Mac User and Purchaser, when you are talking a decade ago the price premium was due to the PPC chip and the lack of standard components that Apple refused to incorporate.

5 years to a decade later, Apple is using the same x86 chip as the rest of the industry along with other standard components. There is no reason for the entry price to be this high. Unless its regarding greed and absurd profits. Remember what it did to the US financial system. Well you can put 2 and 2 together. ;):p

Apple will lose any gains, when people start smartening up and consider that one of the prime reasons they are using glossy screen is because the LCD panel is inferior to boost profits at the cost of quality. Comparing themselves to Porsche and BMW, insulting. Apple as of recent is just a cheap hack or should I say an expensive hack of the computing industry. Sad indeed. :rolleyes:

MagicWok
Oct 15, 2008, 06:34 PM
I was there today too and I was really suprised how many 17" models were on display - I expected to find just a few, around all the new models.

You manage to play on the MBP's? There was quite a scrum of people wasn't there? Even for a wednesday night. The had another set of tables with 17" MBP's upstairs too!

I do like the MB's I have to say. And I don't mind the glossy on that one as it's generally a consumer model. If the MB can do firewire via ethernet then it's a pretty sweet machine.

miketcool
Oct 15, 2008, 06:34 PM
field? try not using ur laptop or ur digital cam's display.
it can be done.

Silly me, what was I thinking. It is clearly easier to whip out my 22" CRT and use it resting comfortably on top of my car or in my lap. I am so glad when people give me advice on how to do things. You're right, it is easier to fly half way round the world to get my work done in my studio. What was I thinking!

mac-er
Oct 15, 2008, 06:36 PM
[ The next opportunity for Apple to release new machines falls in January 2009 at Macworld San Francisco.


Um, they can release a product any time they want. It isn't a space shuttle launch.

strikeinsilence
Oct 15, 2008, 06:37 PM
They're waiting for USB3.

So what about all the people about to buy MB's? At the rate Apple updates things, the case probably won't change for at least a couple years.

Um, they can release a product any time they want. It isn't a space shuttle launch.

Ha!

Nick D
Oct 15, 2008, 06:38 PM
I just talked to a apple person on apple store chat and got an interesting quote
Me: My question is, does the 17 inch come with the same updated features as the new 15 inch?
Me: Including glass trackpad
Apple Rep: (name excluded for safety): Excellent question.
Apple Rep: Nothing has been announced regarding any other updates to our line of notebooks

Prreeetttttyyy well worded if I do say so myself.

P.S: I tried to act kinda stupid to this guy, which is why I asked that retarded question which I knew the answer to.

Update: I can add screen shots as proof of this if you would like.

miketcool
Oct 15, 2008, 06:39 PM
THIS DOES NOT MAKE THE SCREEN Matte.
It actually makes the screen worse....(the color and the contrasts)
Do people like you not get it?

I'm using an imac right this moment in my university's library. And guess what. I can see my damn sweater I'm wearing at this very moment. It DOESNT HAPPEN at all with matte screens.

You may like it
But a lot of people do not. Look at the complaints and such in this forum.
It's the lack-of-option that is making people unhappy, not Matte is better than glossy.

Thats impossible! I heard if you just angle the screen away from the sun, all is well! Ask agbot. Just be thankful when people are viewing your work from obscure angles, they can still see it, bright sweater or not. Or can you not see past all the reflections?

agbot
Oct 15, 2008, 06:39 PM
I do not care what numbers were crunched, this is still a PRO machine and should still have options for a PRO display.

Indeed, hence the part of my original comment where I agree with you there. :)

Clearly Apple knew/knows matte is important to Pro since it's been a option in the previous MBP line and not on the MB. Why they woke up and said, "ah, screw it" and wrote off the N-percent that won't buy in to glossy... who knows. Does the production streamlining really add up that much in this case? Did someone in marketing say "you know, promo shots would be really pretty if every display was glossy with the black border around it".

dohardthings
Oct 15, 2008, 06:40 PM
let those of us who in and of ourselves have no experience pertaining to matte and glossy leave this matter entirely in the hands of our component video and photo professionals.

i personally like the glossy opps;):rolleyes:

agbot
Oct 15, 2008, 06:41 PM
Thats impossible! I heard if you just angle the screen away from the sun, all is well! Ask agbot.

Totally unpossible!

MagicWok
Oct 15, 2008, 06:42 PM
Thats impossible! I heard if you just angle the screen away from the sun, all is well!

You're wrong... So wrong... You angle the actual iSUN away from the screen. Duh! lol :p

redmeister
Oct 15, 2008, 06:47 PM
damn, guess the wait continues. im just hoping they aren't axing it all together and its just the usual "released a bit later" than the other notebooks

ageha
Oct 15, 2008, 06:57 PM
So what about all the people about to buy MB's? At the rate Apple updates things, the case probably won't change for at least a couple years.



Ha!

Probably it will be too expensive for Apple when Intel releases it and they will continue shipping their books with cheaper 3rd party chipsets.

MisterK
Oct 15, 2008, 06:58 PM
This really has been an awesome update for anyone who loves Macs and performance. While I prefer the glossy screens (better image in controllable settings... aka. usually), black keyboard (anyone who likes plastic painted to look like metal should move to Office XP), and black bezel (the image just stands out more). I understand some people prefer matte screens and it will be great when Apple offers that. Otherwise, it looks like anything using GPU will get an awesome update.

I expect the 17" to be pushed out in some sort of Apple Pro event. I hope it's in January. What I would LOVE to see is 17" MBP update, Mac Pro update (this is the one I really want), and maybe iWork update.

The number of drama queens in here is astonishing. If you're not crazy updates, then fine... but the crying is a little excessive.

iBlender
Oct 15, 2008, 07:01 PM
I just ordered a macbook 13" that does not have FW
Should I be concerned?
I have never used a device that used firewire.
If I do plan to do some sort of audio recording on my macbook will I need Firewire ports or is there a decent substitute?
Is everyone pissed off because they have firewire devices and won't be able to use them with the new notebooks or is there some tasks that simply won't work without firewire support like audio and visual editing?

kabunaru
Oct 15, 2008, 07:04 PM
Dual Hard Drives, Dual FireWire 800s, 3.0GHz processor anyone?

strikeinsilence
Oct 15, 2008, 07:07 PM
I just talked to a apple person on apple store chat and got an interesting quote
Me: My question is, does the 17 inch come with the same updated features as the new 15 inch?
Me: Including glass trackpad
Apple Rep: (name excluded for safety): Excellent question.
Apple Rep: Nothing has been announced regarding any other updates to our line of notebooks

Prreeetttttyyy well worded if I do say so myself.

P.S: I tried to act kinda stupid to this guy, which is why I asked that retarded question which I knew the answer to.

Update: I can add screen shots as proof of this if you would like.

Please explain why this is interesting. We all know that the new 17" MBP will have at least the same features of the just-announced 15" MBP.

ageha
Oct 15, 2008, 07:09 PM
I just ordered a macbook 13" that does not have FW
Should I be concerned?
I have never used a device that used firewire.
If I do plan to do some sort of audio recording on my macbook will I need Firewire ports or is there a decent substitute?
Is everyone pissed off because they have firewire devices and won't be able to use them with the new notebooks or is there some tasks that simply won't work without firewire support like audio and visual editing?
Even if you just want to cut your personal 3 minute showreel it's not much fun with and external USB2 HD.

marcello440
Oct 15, 2008, 07:12 PM
PLEASE!!!I really need the Macbook pro 17inch in a few months. Probably due to overproduction of the 17-inch, their definitely waiting to sell a few more before releasing the new 17-inch. But boy, glossy:( I HATE glossy, but hopefully they will give an option without it

Rocketman
Oct 15, 2008, 07:13 PM
Dual Hard Drives, Dual FireWire 800s, 3.0GHz processor anyone?

There needs to be an internal RAID option. Dual 800 unlikely, 3200 firmware upgrade likely, Steve's wet dream is 3ghz, insanely greatly improbable. :(

Does anyone else have a matte film overlay link?

Rocketman

kabunaru
Oct 15, 2008, 07:15 PM
Does anyone else have a matte film overlay link?

Enjoy:
http://www.powersupportusa.com/products/ef.php?category=mb

You have nothing to worry about even if all the Macs go glossy.

ahmac
Oct 15, 2008, 07:16 PM
My theory is that Apple has a backlog of 17" hi res screens that they need to get rid of before they can start selling the new model.

In any case, this sucks big time. I think not many people will buy the "refreshed" 17 ".

Common Steve, release the new 17"!

Arcady
Oct 15, 2008, 07:17 PM
What's all this talk of dual FireWire 800? That's pointless. Every decent FireWire device has two ports (at least), so you should never need more than one FireWire port on the Mac. Having two ports was just for convenience. People complaining are probably unaware that a FW800-400 cable costs like $8 and is available online for even less.

On the other hand, having zero ports on the MacBook makes me want to snap up a black MacBook before they are completely gone. No FireWire = No sale.

kabunaru
Oct 15, 2008, 07:20 PM
What's all this talk of dual FireWire 800? That's pointless.

Talk to Digital Skunk about this.

Loge
Oct 15, 2008, 07:20 PM
You manage to play on the MBP's? There was quite a scrum of people wasn't there? Even for a wednesday night. The had another set of tables with 17" MBP's upstairs too!


Yes, eventually :)

I was very impressed with the MBP, overall the build quality is impressive, the keyboard, and it just feels like a very sturdy product. I didn't really mind the glossy screen after a bit. The trackpad will take some getting used to, I am just so used to a mouse.

The only thing holding me back is that 1440 by 900 just seems not quite enough screen real estate, particularly after also playing around on the 17".

Loge
Oct 15, 2008, 07:23 PM
What's all this talk of dual FireWire 800? That's pointless. Every decent FireWire device has two ports (at least), so you should never need more than one FireWire port on the Mac. Having two ports was just for convenience.

If your devices use bus power, then is daisy-chaining going to be able to draw enough power from the single port?

And not all decent FW devices have two ports, for example the Apogee Duet.

Chaos123x
Oct 15, 2008, 07:24 PM
I think they should have 2 FireWire 800 ports but have them on a split bus so each port has it's own bus. A fw400 port would be welcomed too and could share the bus with one of the 800 ports.

ageha
Oct 15, 2008, 07:26 PM
Yes, eventually :)

I was very impressed with the MBP, overall the build quality is impressive, the keyboard, and it just feels like a very sturdy product. I didn't really mind the glossy screen after a bit. The trackpad will take some getting used to, I am just so used to a mouse.

The only thing holding me back is that 1440 by 900 just seems not quite enough screen real estate, particularly after also playing around on the 17".

Having only a lowrez 1440 by 900 option seems like a joke in this price class.

barneyhanway
Oct 15, 2008, 07:27 PM
Yes, eventually :)

The only thing holding me back is that 1440 by 900 just seems not quite enough screen real estate, particularly after also playing around on the 17".

Exact same for me. I'm still considering it too, but in my heart I know 1440x900 aint enough. Especially if a shiny new 17 comes out within 3 months. Wish Gruber would rumour a date for this... :o

SydneyDev
Oct 15, 2008, 07:28 PM
Maybe they don't have big enough blocks of Aluminum to make 17" unibody.

iBlender
Oct 15, 2008, 07:28 PM
Will someone please tell me what I can and absolutely can't do without the FW on the new Macbooks.

kabunaru
Oct 15, 2008, 07:28 PM
Having only a lowrez 1440 by 900 option seems like a joke in this price class.
13" MacBook: 1440x900 standard
15" MacBook Pro: 1680x1050 standard
17" MacBook Pro: 1920x1200 standard

That is how it is supposed to be.

ndstrenge
Oct 15, 2008, 07:30 PM
I wonder whether the wait is to allow access to quad core mobile chips...

good point. :)

KilljoyPBN
Oct 15, 2008, 07:31 PM
I was worrying about the screen resolution also so I looked around. It seems all higher end 15.4" notebooks are 1440x900 standard.

ageha
Oct 15, 2008, 07:33 PM
13" MacBook: 1440x900 standard
15" MacBook Pro: 1680x1050 standard
17" MacBook Pro: 1920x1200 standard

That is how it is supposed to be.

Exactly. Apple was class leading a few years ago but currently they cannot compete in the display area.

ipedro
Oct 15, 2008, 07:35 PM
And so the MWSF 09 rumor train has departed... ;)

So true :D

I'm in the market for a new 17" MBP but I can still squeeze out another 6 months out of my current MBP after upgrading the HDD to 320GB.

I'll gladly wait until mid next year for revision B or C of the 17" MBP.

ageha
Oct 15, 2008, 07:35 PM
I was worrying about the screen resolution also so I looked around. It seems all higher end 15.4" notebooks are 1440x900 standard.

Where are you looking? Dell offers 1680x1050 and 1920x1200 RGB LED displays in their business lines.

kabunaru
Oct 15, 2008, 07:37 PM
Do the new MacBook Pros have better screens (8-bit instead of 6-bit+dithering)?

ageha
Oct 15, 2008, 07:39 PM
Do the new MacBook Pros have better screens (8-bit instead of 6-bit+dithering)?

No, still 18bit TN panels.

CaptainCaveMann
Oct 15, 2008, 07:41 PM
Who cares? The 17" macbook pro is like the step child nobody likes. Haha, it's to big for a portable. ;)

kabunaru
Oct 15, 2008, 07:42 PM
The 17" macbook pro is like the step child nobody likes.

I think Hollywood directors like/use the 17" MacBook Pro. :)

strikeinsilence
Oct 15, 2008, 07:43 PM
Maybe they don't have big enough blocks of Aluminum to make 17" unibody.

Yeah right. That's probably the last thing that would keep them from churning them out.

ageha
Oct 15, 2008, 07:48 PM
What I don't like about the new books is they've reduced the amount of components but they haven't lowered the price...

kabunaru
Oct 15, 2008, 07:51 PM
What I don't like about the new books is they've reduced the amount of components but they haven't lowered the price...

Maybe Apple is greedy for money, that is what I believe. :o

dernhelm
Oct 15, 2008, 07:51 PM
The next opportunity for Apple to release new machines falls in January 2009 at Macworld San Francisco.


Wrong. The next opportunity to release a new machine is tomorrow. Apple can release new machines whenever they are darn well ready. If new 17" macbooks were to be ready in the middle of November, they would release them rather than wait until January. Of course, if they aren't ready until Dec 31, then they should wait (to get the best bang for their advertising buck).

This whole "Apple has to wait several months until their next scheduled event" thing is preposterous. I thought we were well past all that.

TuffLuffJimmy
Oct 15, 2008, 07:52 PM
Do the new MacBook Pros have better screens (8-bit instead of 6-bit+dithering)?

Do 8-bit laptop screens exist?

Maybe Apple is greedy for money, that is what I believe. :o

I think it has more to do with the current economy. It is a depression after all.

SomeTechGuy
Oct 15, 2008, 07:58 PM
I think I share the sentiments of others here.

It might be wishful thinking, but a Matte option for the 17" redesign sounds possible. The 17" higher end MBP are truly for the pros and the majority of that group seem to want Matte screens. Plus, you make the Matte option for the 17" inch only and you force people to purchase those notebooks since they are basically adding more exclusivity with the 17". It feels like that's what they're doing.

Then if they do that, everyone will say how Apple listens to their customers and they are so great when really they were planning on doing the 17" Matte screen all along.

neutrino23
Oct 15, 2008, 08:00 PM
Will someone please tell me what I can and absolutely can't do without the FW on the new Macbooks.

FW400 is faster than USB2, FW800 is way faster for use with hard drives. Digital Video cameras, high end DSLR cameras, a variety of audio equipment come with FW ports.

Video cameras come with just one port so no daisy chaining is possible. I've also had experiences where daisy chaining didn't work.

USB is and overgrown spec for connecting mice and keyboards. FW is a much more sophisticated specification that includes the ability to guarantee a certain amount of bandwidth regardless of what else is happening on the bus. Useful for audio.

FW supplies enough power for small devices like hard drives. USB requires external power.

aljawad
Oct 15, 2008, 08:05 PM
I think the 17" update will come the week before Macworld - Tuesday, December 30th, if not earlier. Its something that is widely expected and I don't think Steve will waste precious Keynote minutes on a non-surprise, remember the Mac Pros updates this January? :D

Now, how about we talk about updating the Cinema Displays - bringing everything up to the standard of the new 24"; with the possibility of something new - like an ACD / Apple TV mutant, perhaps? :rolleyes:

Frisco
Oct 15, 2008, 08:08 PM
Reminds me of the days when Apple went Aluminum with the 13" and 17 inch Powerbooks and the 15" Titanium Powerbook was at least 6 months behind the refresh.

ageha
Oct 15, 2008, 08:10 PM
Do 8-bit laptop screens exist?



I think it has more to do with the current economy. It is a depression after all.

No, but at least TN displays offered by Dell and Sony have a better RGB LED back lighting with a 100% color gamut. Apple only offers white LED back lighting.

joemama
Oct 15, 2008, 08:14 PM
How can you transfer digital video from a camcorder to the new MB if there is no firewire? We capture events live to a laptop and (were) about to order a new one.

This is a serious question. I asked in an earlier thread and can't find it with so many posts.

How will consumers, and more importantly k-12 students, be able to edit video inexpensively? I talked to my Broadcasting classes today about this and they were more upset than I was..and they are 15-18 years old!

Are there new cameras coming out that transfer with USB?

i.mac
Oct 15, 2008, 08:14 PM
FW400 is faster than USB2,....

FW has less latency which shrinks overall transfer time, but the transfer of bits may not be any faster.

stepheneleven
Oct 15, 2008, 08:20 PM
MATTE, MATTE, MATTE, i won't buy a glossy screened notebook, and i don't care who wants to tell why i should use a glossy or that as a professional i should have a secondary monitor anyway. The whole point of having a notebook is so it is portable and you can do work on the road effectively. I can't take my 30" cinema display with me on the road, and the road is where most of the ambient light in this world is located, glossy notebooks dont make sense in general. And whether i know what i am talking about or not, im part of a significant portion of people that feel the same way and that should matter to Apple, whether they are smarter than me or not or know whats better for me than i do, they are losing customers that wouldve bought their product. That's money and isnt that what business is all about, especially in these dark times.

"Ooooh that laptop is so shiny, it must be awesome"

DaBrain
Oct 15, 2008, 08:21 PM
Good! I was waiting for some news on this bull honky.
I agree that Apple will announce this as an Apple Store update probably in December of this year. I will be first online to customize and buy mine. I also hope they have enough demand by then to include a matte version.
Can't wait!

Is anyone wondering what they could possibly be announcing at Macworld 2009 this time? I mean iPhone 3G is still new, the MacBooks are brand spanking new, the cinema display is brand spanking new besides other size screens, and the iMac is not ready for a new look yet. Steve said that touch screen laptops and displays "don't make sense right now", so what could it be? Good 'ol Mac Pro update? Boring.............

I think Snow Leopard, mac-mini update/replacement, Apple TV and perhaps a competive ebook reader device, oh and A smaller iPhone. Maybe not but just a stab at what could be announced. I think there's plenty that "could" be introduced! But, from what I have seen the last few years IM not holding my breath except for snow leopard and 1 or 2 pieces of hardware. :confused:

!ˇ V ˇ!
Oct 15, 2008, 08:23 PM
Enjoy:
http://www.powersupportusa.com/products/ef.php?category=mb

You have nothing to worry about even if all the Macs go glossy.

Just what we need, and just like apple. Buy another add-on to compensate for they foolishness. The did the same thing back in the day with the standalone 15" ACD (bondi-blue and white).

Apple can stick they glossy screens where the sun can reflect off them. :rolleyes:

!ˇ V ˇ!
Oct 15, 2008, 08:26 PM
MATTE, MATTE, MATTE, i won't buy a glossy screened notebook, and i don't care who wants to tell why i should use a glossy or that as a professional i should have a secondary monitor anyway. The whole point of having a notebook is so it is portable and you can do work on the road effectively. I can't take my 30" cinema display with me on the road, and the road is where most of the ambient light in this world is located, glossy notebooks dont make sense in general. And whether i know what i am talking about or not, im part of a significant portion of people that feel the same way and that should matter to Apple, whether they are smarter than me or not or know whats better for me than i do, they are losing customers that wouldve bought their product. That's money and isnt that what business is all about, especially in these dark times.

"Ooooh that laptop is so shiny, it must be awesome"

amen brother, amen. :D

Shiny hides the fact of low quality, seems apply is taking a page from Microsoft's book. Remember XP eye-candy built on top of legacy code. Apple is a hypocrite.

ageha
Oct 15, 2008, 08:30 PM
Just what we need, and just like apple. Buy another add-on to compensate for they foolishness. The did the same thing back in the day with the standalone 15" ACD (bondi-blue and white).

Apple can stick they glossy screens where the sun can reflect off them. :rolleyes:

I'm pretty sure Apple does know Starbucks closed almost all shops in Australia. There is really no need for matte screens anymore.

stepheneleven
Oct 15, 2008, 08:40 PM
I'm pretty sure Apple does know Starbucks closed almost all shops in Australia. There is really no need for matte screens anymore.

LOL, guess that means there is no need for Apple notebooks in general now that we can't show them off at starbucks.

z-hayden
Oct 15, 2008, 08:40 PM
Quadcore processors for sure :D

iBlender
Oct 15, 2008, 08:46 PM
So what is there no hope of accomplishing on the new macs without firewire support.

DaBrain
Oct 15, 2008, 08:46 PM
My bets they release a cheapo macbook at the same time

My Bet is many may need a mortgage for this puppy--)));)

nowonder24
Oct 15, 2008, 08:48 PM
Using a laptop in the glaring sun even with a matte screen is impossible so I don't know what the big deal is.

Well, thanks for telling me what I do is impossible, but my 17" HiRes is perfectly viewable even with the sun directly behind me. It looks a little bit dim, but I rarely notice.

How I know? From 2pm every sunny day I have the sun directly on my display at my current work place. Not an issue with my current notebook, but a show stopper with my previous glossy one.

isethx
Oct 15, 2008, 08:53 PM
i'm so tired of waiting for this!

i'm not sure why everyone thinks it's going to be so different .. matte... blu-ray...ect

it will be just like the 15 inch macbook pro with maybe an extra USB port and higher resolution.

Bubba Satori
Oct 15, 2008, 08:56 PM
Glaciers are faster than Apple's computer updates.

ageha
Oct 15, 2008, 08:58 PM
Well, thanks for telling me what I do is impossible, but my 17" HiRes is perfectly viewable even with the sun directly behind me. It looks a little bit dim, but I rarely notice.

How I know? From 2pm every sunny day I have the sun directly on my display at my current work place. Not an issue with my current notebook, but a show stopper with my previous glossy one.

Possible, just buy a Dell with an outdoor viewable touchscreen LED display like the ATG E6400.

Bubba Satori
Oct 15, 2008, 09:01 PM
Quadcore processors for sure :D

HP, Toshiba, Sony and Dell already have them so I would expect Apple to have them by January. Hopefully with better video cards, Blu-ray, HDMI, Matte screen option, etc.

iChase
Oct 15, 2008, 09:01 PM
I just made a little trip over to Falcon-Northwest and configured a laptop.
Can someone explain to me why I can configure it with a Core 2 Quad 3.0 GHz processor but the supposed industry leader cannot?

I won't begin on the glossy displays. Nor the Blu-Ray, nor the lack of FireWire.

All I will say is choice. It's all about choice. A one-size-fits-all business model does not work. Let the people choose, especially the supposed pros. At this point with the lack of choices, the MBPs are really just upper-lever consumer models.

nowonder24
Oct 15, 2008, 09:03 PM
Hi,

everyone please sign the following petition for more CHOICE in MBP displays.

Even if you are happy with glossy, choice is alwasy good!

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/matte-macbook-pro/index.html

Virtuoso
Oct 15, 2008, 09:06 PM
Is nobody concerned that the Pro line is now dependent on an Nvidia chipset?

- Nvidia who write the flakiest drivers in the industry.
- Nvidia who never quite get round to fixing the alarmingly long list of 'known issues' with every 'WHQL certified' PC driver release.
- Nvidia who skew their drivers to give falsely inflated benchmark results at the cost of stability.
- Nvidia who lie about faulty hardware, are currently facing a class action over defective chips and whose share price is 80% down from 12 months ago.

I could probably go on, but you get the message. The stuff they're doing with CUDA/Open CL is cool, but on a Pro machine, stability is my absolute top priority and I don't have a lot of confidence in Nvidia to deliver that.

ageha
Oct 15, 2008, 09:06 PM
I just made a little trip over to Falcon-Northwest and configured a laptop.
Can someone explain to me why I can configure it with a Core 2 Quad 3.0 GHz processor but the supposed industry leader cannot?

I won't begin on the glossy displays. Nor the Blu-Ray, nor the lack of FireWire.

All I will say is choice. It's all about choice. A one-size-fits-all business model does not work. Let the people choose, especially the supposed pros. At this point with the lack of choices, the MBPs are really just upper-lever consumer models.

Actually I think Apple's business model is far superior. People pay a premium for the brand name alone and it turns out very well for Apple. The hardware they sell is as good as any other device produced by Apple's Chinese and Taiwanese subcontractors.

Bubba Satori
Oct 15, 2008, 09:09 PM
But for us REAL photographers

:rolleyes: Yeah, right. More like insufferably obnoxious. :mad:

ageha
Oct 15, 2008, 09:11 PM
Is nobody concerned that the Pro line is now dependent on an Nvidia chipset?

- Nvidia who write the flakiest drivers in the industry.
- Nvidia who never quite get round to fixing the alarmingly long list of 'known issues' with every 'WHQL certified' PC driver release.
- Nvidia who skew their drivers to give falsely inflated benchmark results at the cost of stability.
- Nvidia who lie about faulty hardware, are currently facing a class action over defective chips and whose share price is 80% down from 12 months ago.

I could probably go on, but you get the message. The stuff they're doing with CUDA/Open CL is cool, but on a Pro machine, stability is my absolute top priority and I don't have a lot of confidence in Nvidia to deliver that.

I'm concerned but just about using a nVidia chipset because I think nVidia chipsets are quite buggy compared to the ones from Intel.
I don't mind a nVidia GPU. nVidia has much better OpenGL drivers than ATi. I haven't seen FireGL cards in animation studios for years because they are too buggy.

bobertoq
Oct 15, 2008, 09:19 PM
The next opportunity for Apple to release new machines falls in January 2009 at Macworld San Francisco.Yuup. I think they will update the iMac at MacWorld. I think it will look just like the Cinema display, with or without a chin. I predict... 2GB of DDR3 RAM, 320GB high-rpm HDD (up to high-rpm 1TB, or 128GB SSD), new graphics card, newest intel processor, LCD LED.... i hope.

Anyways, why was the 17" MBP not updated? That' doesn't quite make sense to me.

direzz
Oct 15, 2008, 09:24 PM
I hope they come with a matte option for the display, but I doubt they will.




lol i can't believe you just asked that.


glossy screens are gone forever.

Bubba Satori
Oct 15, 2008, 09:27 PM
What makes it a joke? Do you not remember less than a decade ago when Apple's entry-level consumer notebook pricing started at $1,599? Do you not remember when the top-of-the-line 17'' PowerBook used to start at $3,299? Apple has never been one for "budget pricing," and $1,299 would actually be one of their lower entry level prices.

In a vacuum that's a perfectly good arguement. But in the real world, where laptop prices have come down about 40% over the last two years, it just doesn't make sense. $1,299 for an entry level computer is absurd, especially in an economy that will be in a severe recession for the next couple of years.

timish
Oct 15, 2008, 09:30 PM
lol i can't believe you just asked that.


glossy screens are gone forever.


HUH?? :eek:

commander.data
Oct 15, 2008, 09:34 PM
I too hope that Apple uses the extra space on the 17" MBP to add more ports. Hopefully 2 Firewire 3200 ports on the left side instead of 1 Firewire 800 and an extra USB2.0 port on the right side beside the optical drive.

digitalbiker
Oct 15, 2008, 09:36 PM
II didn't quite believe. He told them that he would advise against the new laptops. He continued to say that he would recommend the 17" model simply because the colours aren't accurate on the new ones compared to the older one, mentioning they could only get the matte option on the 17" models.

This would be an interesting story if the Apple store salesman wasn't feeding them a complete line of bullc**p. Where does all this color accuracy myth come from.

People the displays are identical, they emit the exact same color ranges. The LED backlights are much brighter and color saturation, hue, and white balance are the same.

The only difference between glossy and matte is the finish. One finish smears the light to reduce reflections, the other is a clear coat that passes and reflects light undisturbed.

You can calibrate both displays. The colors are equally as accurate. I am a pro user. I have used the MBA glossy and the MBP matte LED backlit displays. Both are easily calibrated. I routinely calibrate displays and output to an Epson 9800 Photo Stylus Large Format printer. The results are stunning.

Choosing matte or glossy is a personal preference like the color of shoes that you wear. You may not like switching colors of shoes but once you do, you get used to it and it is no big deal.

It is irritating when you read these posts that glossy is cheap and unprofessional. That isn't true. Pros use both on an equal basis.

If a matte display is so important, then just get your screen treated by a professional or buy a piece or matte micro channel static film.

The fact is you are not going to be getting matte laptops from Apple anytime soon and there are very few PC vendors offering matte displays as well.

In fact if you look around. Almost all of the high end HDTV displays, plasma and LCD are going without the matte finish to improve contrast, brightness, sharpness. The matte smears not only the reflected light but the transmitted light as well.

Bubba Satori
Oct 15, 2008, 09:38 PM
Do 8-bit laptop screens exist?



I think it has more to do with the current economy. It is a depression after all.

A depression is when the economy contracts 10%. A recession is when the economy contracts in at least two consecutive quarters. Neither has happened yet.

wheezy
Oct 15, 2008, 09:38 PM
Well seeing that you can buy a matte sheet to put over it, whats the big deal? Not inly will it be a screen protector it will inaccurately render the colors just like you are used to!

www.photodon.com/lcdprotect-sheet.htm


But for us REAL photographers, the gloss screen is nice for the dirty work then brining it to our dark lab for color accuracy.

Uhhhh....

"Thus the anti-glare films are not recommended for color critical applications."

That's from the photodon website. SO, they're cute cover isn't an option. Matte from Apple is the only option. They need to have both versions, but they can't, you just can't have one with glass and one without, having just a glass trim on the bezel wouldn't work.

Digital Skunk
Oct 15, 2008, 09:51 PM
Why? I mean, sure, maybe two FW800 ports, but leaving on FW400 would be pointless.

Exactly...

I'd rather have 2 firewire 800 ports. You can just get the adapter cable anyways.

YES!!!

Here's hoping to Apple keeping the 17" MacBook Pro a real professional machine with the speedy ports that we love so much. Or hopefully they will at least add eSATA to the case standard if not an extra FW800 port.

I don't know about "pointless" but I have 2 Canon XH A1 HDV cameras and a few external HD's here that wouldn't mind being hooked up without an adaptor.

By adaptor you mean a 9 pin FW to 4 pin FW cable right?

FW is by far the most adaptable connection system we have to date, being completely backward compatible. USB and eSATA just can't compare, save for the speed of eSATA.

Digitalbiker thanks for being another advocate for true photo toning. The hype that people are spitting about glossy displays being this and that in the photo and color critical world is getting quite annoying. But as I said, this is what you get when you have 80% of photogs learning their trade from Internet forums and "________ for Dummies" series.

digitalbiker
Oct 15, 2008, 09:56 PM
YES!!!

Here's hoping to Apple keeping the 17" MacBook Pro a real professional machine with the speedy ports that we love so much. Or hopefully they will at least add eSATA to the case standard if not an extra FW800 port.



By adaptor you mean a 9 pin FW to 4 pin FW cable right?

FW is by far the most adaptable connection system we have to date, being completely backward compatible. USB and eSATA just can't compare, save for the speed of eSATA.

I agree.

I bet Apple does include either 2 FW800 ports, or 1 FW800 & 1 eSata on the 17 inch machine.

I think Apple just ran out of space on the left side of the laptop for another connector. The 17 " should have a little more room.

El Magnificante
Oct 15, 2008, 10:01 PM
baaaaa :apple:

Wake up people!

Digital Skunk
Oct 15, 2008, 10:03 PM
I agree.

I bet Apple does include either 2 FW800 ports, or 1 FW800 & 1 eSata on the 17 inch machine.

I think Apple just ran out of space on the left side of the laptop for another connector. The 17 " should have a little more room.

Good point, when you look at the MOBO/IO for the 17" MBP (current) there's barely enough room for what they have currently. I hope they don't just put another USB port on the side like they have done for the past few years with the MBP.

highjumppudding
Oct 15, 2008, 10:12 PM
im holding out for the new 17 incher. hopefully it comes with a quad core option.

digitalbiker
Oct 15, 2008, 10:13 PM
Good point, when you look at the MOBO/IO for the 17" MBP (current) there's barely enough room for what they have currently. I hope they don't just put another USB port on the side like they have done for the past few years with the MBP.

Have you been to the Apple Store yet to see the new MBPs?

Ohhh man these babies are sweet. Much more impressive in real life than in photos.

The torsional rigidity of the frame and the display stiffness being all glass. Just give a whole new feel to these machines. Also the precision cut keyboard is really impressive.

The graphics seem much faster to me. The new Nvidia cards make Aperture and Logic feel at least twice as fast as before.

I immediately went online and placed an order for the 15" MBP 2.8 GHz 4GB ram. I love this machine. I'll bet the 17 inch will be even nicer but I couldn't wait any longer.

Now I can hardly wait for snow leopard as I bet these babies will really perform well once the GPUs are optimized.

kabunaru
Oct 15, 2008, 10:24 PM
How useful are 3.0GHz processor, 8GB RAM and Dual Hard Drives to you Digital Skunk on the 17" MacBook Pro? :eek::D

iBlender
Oct 15, 2008, 10:35 PM
I have $1200 of "apple credit" due to a return
Someone help me or tell me what to by that is around that price range.
Or what you would do.

Losenrout
Oct 15, 2008, 10:43 PM
I have a contact at Apple's executive level through some extensive personal and business purchases I've made from the company. I had a phone conversation with him yesterday and received some information about the delay of the 17".

Apparently the 17" was actually the first new MacBook Pro to be designed, and its revision was somewhat more radical than what was ultimately released for the 15" and Macbook. The prototype 17" was overall very similar to the new 15", but the keyboard included a number pad, and the "chicklet" keys were actually raised above the casing instead of being placed flush with the casing. Apple designed a system so that when the screen was closed, the keys would lower into the body, but when the screen was open they would be raised above. The prototype 17" unfortunately had serious problems with this mechanism, so the 15" and Macbook were subsequently designed with a more traditional keyboard. Apple didn't have time revise the new 17", causing the delay. Apparently the raised keyboard has been abandoned, but the new 17" will indeed have a number pad, and will generally be in line with the new computers released this week as expected.

jackjason
Oct 15, 2008, 10:44 PM
ifixit.com


they look soo sexy inside..

http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/First-Look/Mac/MacBook-Unibody

puliaficoc20
Oct 15, 2008, 10:52 PM
So i have been a mac user for 15 years now, going back to our old school apples and since my mom ran the computer lab we always wanted to keep up with times to we always bought the newest models of macs that came out and have their been alot of great changes over the years. I finally ordered my own Mac Book Pro fully loaded with every of the few options on their well besides the ssd because its not big enough. This will be my first personal mac ever I did switch to pc's when i bought my own computers because I wanted to build them but what a mistake, i believe that mistake makes me realize how much more i want this mac.

I really do not know why people complain so much about the features they take out and dont include. They obviously have reasons for doing so, blue ray as of right now over rated, its cheaper and more effecient a time capsule for example if backing up or extra storage is what your looking for and that you dont even need disks that still cost a crap load to buy. Give it time and when apple does see it suitable for the company to take it on they will. Firewire another issue if you need it spend the little extra dough and get a pro, thats why they did it because mostly people that need firewire use the pro its just an extra thing on most laptops, most ports people will not use, I know at least 10 people that have the black/white macbooks and never used the firewire or dvi ports and no more than one usb if that. Thats another reason the Air is so nice which I probably would have gotten if it was up to par with the pro and had that glossy glass screen that finishes the touch that everybody complains about, it a new display that glossy and matte should not back a different and its not just a film they would have to change they would need a different screen, you couldnt get that look with the glass on the matte. If glare is the issue, there is going to be some company that tries to make a anti glare film soon garunteed.

I do not want to step on toes but really apple has their reasons for doing what they doing and they have been doing pretty good so far. Also people need to stop judging a machine before using it, there are so many posts that people are whining about stuff on it and never used it. I just hope soon in the new laptop sections when poeple get more hands on and get more open minded we start seeing more positive comments then negatives, thats all

TuffLuffJimmy
Oct 15, 2008, 11:08 PM
How useful are 3.0GHz processor, 8GB RAM and Dual Hard Drives to you Digital Skunk on the 17" MacBook Pro? :eek::D

That sounds pretty useful to anyone who wants to work with RAW photos in Photoshop and Aperture at the same time with a few large files open. And it sounds pretty future proof for anyone in a media/arts profession.

strikeinsilence
Oct 15, 2008, 11:15 PM
glossy screens are gone forever.

Hooray!

timish
Oct 15, 2008, 11:21 PM
I have a contact at Apple's executive level through some extensive personal and business purchases I've made from the company. I had a phone conversation with him yesterday and received some information about the delay of the 17".

Apparently the 17" was actually the first new MacBook Pro to be designed, and its revision was somewhat more radical than what was ultimately released for the 15" and Macbook. The prototype 17" was overall very similar to the new 15", but the keyboard included a number pad, and the "chicklet" keys were actually raised above the casing instead of being placed flush with the casing. Apple designed a system so that when the screen was closed, the keys would lower into the body, but when the screen was open they would be raised above. The prototype 17" unfortunately had serious problems with this mechanism, so the 15" and Macbook were subsequently designed with a more traditional keyboard. Apple didn't have time revise the new 17", causing the delay. Apparently the raised keyboard has been abandoned, but the new 17" will indeed have a number pad, and will generally be in line with the new computers released this week as expected.


That's the biggest load of bullcrap I've heard.

Right up there with Steve had a heart attack.

Oh, and there will be NO Esata on the MBP 17.

Rumorpeople have been saying Apple would add Esata to Mac Pro, and Macbook Pro.

It's not going to happen, at least not anytime soon.

If anything would get Esata it would be the Xserve first.

hawken king
Oct 15, 2008, 11:36 PM
I think apple still adequately caters for the professional, it's just that the majority of machines are powerful enough for both professionals and consumers.

My prediction is as follows:

17" will be killed off in the same way as the 12". Instead they are concentrating on the 13" and 15", which probably outsell the 17" greatly.

Instead the ultimate professional solution is to get a new cinema display for the desk, combined with a 15" for portability.

Frankly 17" computers are a royal pain in the ass to carry around, and are rarely carried around - they spend most of their time on a desk hooked up to monitors, so whats the point?

The 15" is the perfect compromise; powerful when rigged up, portable when out and about. 17" laptops are dead. Applause to apple to notice this.


Mac mini:

Will be updated when blu-ray is sorted. the next mac mini may be a hybrid of apple tv and mini. Maybe not. I have a mini hooked up to my TV. Next mini will have HMDI out as standard.


Glossy screens:

The LED backlighting is a lot brighter these days, you can see the screen no trouble under most conditions. Not sure how they are going to "matte" a glass screen, so doubt this will happen. Frankly it does give you better colours and you can see when your boss is looking at your screen... bonus!


mac pro:

no change


imac:

no change

Winni
Oct 15, 2008, 11:38 PM
My bet is that the next 17" MacBook Pro will introduce the forthcoming Intel Quad Core CPUs for notebooks, and the next 24" iMac model will get that very same Quad Core technology.

Since those CPUs are not yet available, Apple has simply delayed the upgrade of the 17" MacBook Pro.

Quillz
Oct 15, 2008, 11:39 PM
I think apple still adequately caters for the professional, it's just that the majority of machines are powerful enough for both professionals and consumers.

My prediction is as follows:

17" will be killed off in the same way as the 12". Instead they are concentrating on the 13" and 15", which probably outsell the 17" greatly.

Instead the ultimate professional solution is to get a new cinema display for the desk, combined with a 15" for portability.

Frankly 17" computers are a royal pain in the ass to carry around, and are rarely carried around - they spend most of their time on a desk hooked up to monitors, so whats the point?

The 15" is the perfect compromise; powerful when rigged up, portable when out and about. 17" laptops are dead. Applause to apple to notice this.


Mac mini:

Will be updated when blu-ray is sorted. the next mac mini may be a hybrid of apple tv and mini. Maybe not. I have a mini hooked up to my TV. Next mini will have HMDI out as standard.


Glossy screens:

The LED backlighting is a lot brighter these days, you can see the screen no trouble under most conditions. Not sure how they are going to "matte" a glass screen, so doubt this will happen. Frankly it does give you better colours and you can see when your boss is looking at your screen... bonus!


mac pro:

no change


imac:

no change
I don't agree with all your points, but I do think that the 15'' MacBook Pro was far more popular than the 17'' model. Just like how the 80 GB iPod classic was far more popular than the 160 GB model, there is only so big that most people want a notebook.

BenRoethig
Oct 15, 2008, 11:49 PM
What makes it a joke? Do you not remember less than a decade ago when Apple's entry-level consumer notebook pricing started at $1,599? Do you not remember when the top-of-the-line 17'' PowerBook used to start at $3,299? Apple has never been one for "budget pricing," and $1,299 would actually be one of their lower entry level prices.

In those days you were paying $30 for cable, $20 for internet, and cell phones were novelties. Now you're paying $60 for cable, 40 for internet, and about $80 on your cell phone. Might I also add that the economy was good and PC notebooks weren't cheap either.

timish
Oct 15, 2008, 11:55 PM
In those days you were paying $30 for cable, $20 for internet, and cell phones were novelties. Now you're paying $60 for cable, 40 for internet, and about $80 on your cell phone. Might I also add that the economy was good and PC notebooks weren't cheap either.

Not to derail, but does anyone here remember $10,000 IIfx' and $7900 IIci's? :eek:

That puts all of this into perspective. :)

The tech is cheaper these days, but Apple is trying to get some R & D back on the new manufacturing process, hence the prices aren't "bargain basement" like most thought/expected.

Yes the economy is in the toilet, but you don't see Mercedes Benz or Ferrari lowering their prices anytime soon.

Apple doesn't cater to the bargain basement shopper, the days of the "Performa" are/were long over.

hawken king
Oct 16, 2008, 12:07 AM
actually even I don't agree or rather don't wish for what I say to be true, but this may be what apple do to cut costs.

I mean, with the high end pricing structure on a maxed out MBP 15", how much does that set the 17" at? $3000+ ?

brendanspah764
Oct 16, 2008, 12:08 AM
Why doesn't Apple get rid of the MacBook white and the prevoius generation MacBook Pro and replace it when the new designs. I think they should have done this in teh first place, and gave price drops to all the notebooks. That way they would get more buyers. Stupid economy problems.

hawken king
Oct 16, 2008, 12:09 AM
as stock levels deplete, I'm sure we'll see the end of the white and black MB's

timish
Oct 16, 2008, 12:13 AM
actually even I don't agree or rather don't wish for what I say to be true, but this may be what apple do to cut costs.

I mean, with the high end pricing structure on a maxed out MBP 15", how much does that set the 17" at? $3000+ ?

I'd guess a base 17 is gonna go for $2800 and scale to $3500 on the high end (not including SSD option!)

ageha
Oct 16, 2008, 12:22 AM
Sad Apple only offers Samsung SSDs and not the cheaper and better Intel SSD drives.

strikeinsilence
Oct 16, 2008, 12:44 AM
Sad Apple only offers Samsung SSDs and not the cheaper and better Intel SSD drives.

Just wondering, but why are the intel ones better? Do you have a source?

sfh
Oct 16, 2008, 12:46 AM
I hate to say it but I think that apple is testing the waters to see how it's community will react. The 17" is great for pro's who mosly have them docked to a desk but sometimes need portability ... But now they can get close to the same power into a 15" so I think they are seeing if people really wanted the 17" or the power it gave.

On another note the glass screenmay look like "better color" but is nowhere near true color ... Everything is over saturated and super contrasty ... They really need a matte option or better color controlls got the glass displays

Cousin Dirk
Oct 16, 2008, 12:54 AM
According to AppleInsider, the reason why we didn't see a new 17" MacBook Pro is due to several issues:

a report published by MacNN earlier this week noted two problems that appear to have plagued the new notebook. Specifically, the site reported that the "initial run of 17-inch models have both optical drive and display issues, which will delay shipments."

Since then, AppleInsider has received corroborating reports that there was some form of delay affecting the new 17-inch models, which would have ideally made their debut this week had matters played out differently. Those people reported sightings of the larger model undergoing tests in Apple's labs, and as would be expected, they resemble a slightly larger version of the new 15-inch MacBook Pro.

As avid readers may recall, this isn't the first time that a 17-inch MacBook Pro missed the first boat out of China. The situation was nearly identical back in 2006 when Apple introduced its first ever MacBook Pro at the Macworld Expo in January.

Like this week's introductions, the 2006 MacBook Pro represented a major architectural design overhaul that delivered the first Intel processors in an Apple notebook. The Mac maker elected to focus its resources on completing the higher volume 15-inch model, which it began shipping with faster processors than initially announced a little over a month later. In late April, about three months after the 15-inch MacBook Pro made its debut, Apple introduced the first 17-inch MacBook Pro.

So, it may not be a 'decision' by Apple to not release the 17" MacBook Pro, but a necessity.

raydsr
Oct 16, 2008, 01:11 AM
Dear Jobs,

I have only one request for the forthcoming notebook display:

MATTE

I AM A DIGITAL PHOTOGRAPHER, DO NOT MAKE ME LOOK ELSEWHERE FOR A PRO LAPTOP. GLOSSY IS UNACCEPTABLE IN THE FIELD, PLEASE TAKE NOTE.

Michael


PLEASE GIVE US MATTE SCREENS.

sushi
Oct 16, 2008, 01:37 AM
AppleInsider says (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/10/15/apples_next_gen_17_inch_macbook_pro_due_in_a_few_months.html), however, that the 17" MacBook Pro will see a refresh in the next few months to bring it in line with the latest MacBook Pro designs. The next opportunity for Apple to release new machines falls in January 2009 at Macworld San Francisco.
IIRC, the same thing happened with the Aluminum MBPs. First came the 15 inch model, then later the 17 and 12 inch models.

strikeinsilence
Oct 16, 2008, 01:45 AM
PLEASE GIVE US MATTE SCREENS.

Sadly, thats pretty unlikely now.

Cheffy Dave
Oct 16, 2008, 01:47 AM
Now the whining begins about no update to the 17".
In this economy the 17" is dead.(along with the MINI) So is Matte screens and FW 400. Apple goes with what sells. 17" and Matte rule the roost-Deal with it;)

Bregalad
Oct 16, 2008, 01:49 AM
The next opportunity for Apple to release new machines falls in January 2009 at Macworld San Francisco.

********! Apple has another month before the Thanksgiving door closes on their collective rear end. The 17" MBP might not be ready before January, but they have an entire lineup of desktops and Cinema displays begging for an update. Apple's own goal is to be free of arsenic glass and mercury by the end of 2008. That doesn't look very likely right now unless we get new iMacs and displays in the next 3-4 weeks.

The new 24" display is crying out for a re-designed Mac mini to plug into it. This time maybe Steve will get his head out of his ass and use the same motherboard in the mini as the one in the MacBook. That'd cut the cost of production while dramatically improving performance. Yes Steve you'd be able to make even more money. Much as I hate that the MacBook dropped FireWire in favor of being Intel's USBitch, the mini is so outdated that he should be embarrassed to have it on the Apple website.

As for the iconic iMac I like the look and having seen some in action I could probably live with the glossy display. The problems I have with the iMac are more fundamental.

All computers with built-in displays (iMacs, MacBooks, etc.) are an environmental nightmare no matter how Apple tries to spin it.

An LCD display simply has a longer useful life than any computer. When the computer part of an all-in-one is obsolete a bunch of perfectly useful components will be unnecessarily recycled and re-manufactured. Not only is that a huge waste of energy and money, but manufacturing a single LCD panel produces more harmful greenhouse gases than the aircraft that flies it to you from China.

My other complaints about component selection and the difficulty in getting to the internal HD to upgrade it seem rather insignificant next to that.

CrownSeven
Oct 16, 2008, 01:57 AM
Now the whining begins about no update to the 17".
In this economy the 17" is dead.(along with the MINI) So is Matte screens and FW 400. Apple goes with what sells. 17" and Matte rule the roost-Deal with it;)

Yeah, suck it all you whiners. You have no right to purchase the most expensive macbook apple offers, AND get the features you want. Because you know there's like a huge line of people with 3500 cash in hand waiting to buy these things.

stepheneleven
Oct 16, 2008, 02:07 AM
Now the whining begins about no update to the 17".
In this economy the 17" is dead.(along with the MINI) So is Matte screens and FW 400. Apple goes with what sells. 17" and Matte rule the roost-Deal with it;)

K dude, and to all the ppl saying that they arent even gonna release a 17" in the future, are you telling me that the supposed industry leading notebook manufacturer will have a 1400x900 res screen as their high-end spec? I mean i havent ever had a resolution that low on any of the notebook computers ive had in my life, and ive been going thru them for about 10 years now. That doesnt sound very good to me, hope they enjoyed their short double-digit market share while it lasted.

Glossy screen only + low res + loss of ports + same high price tag = you guessed it - FAIL

Bye Apple, people are gonna see thru your shiny junk this time. I guess thats the new business plan, make the screen so shiny that it blinds people from seeing how low the resolution is. JOBS is GENIUS

steve-p
Oct 16, 2008, 02:19 AM
so they just gave up on 17" sales? who is actually going to buy a new 17" mbp when they know (yes know) that new ones are just a few months away.
That's the problem isn't it. I was all ready to order a 17" on Tuesday but since it's now obsolescent I think I'll wait a while. Although price-wise it does actually compare quite well with the new 15.4" models, which makes me think there will be a big price hike for the new model when it comes.

MattyP30
Oct 16, 2008, 02:25 AM
did anyone in this thread read the original article? - appleinsider states there were manufacturing issues with the 17inch and those produced weren't of standard so thats the reason for the delay. I believe it was the optical drive and the screen that caused the problems!

katewes
Oct 16, 2008, 02:49 AM
so they just gave up on 17" sales? who is actually going to buy a new 17" mbp when they know (yes know) that new ones are just a few months away.

Are you loony? I considered getting one, since it's the last chance to get a new matte screen notebook (aside from the few remaining refurbished ones).

All surveys (macpolls.com etc) suggest that 40% of people prefer matte. Apple knows it has locked them in to the Mac platform, and even if Apple removes matte, they'll complain a bit, but still buy another Mac. The B*@#$*%S.

There was massive complaints after the iMac was made gloss-only, and Apple did not just ignore it, they went ahead and made the MacBooks all gloss.

Apple does not listen.

Apple is the incarnation of Steve Job's personality.

Steve Jobs does not listen to customers.

Quillz
Oct 16, 2008, 03:03 AM
Are you loony? I considered getting one, since it's the last chance to get a new matte screen notebook (aside from the few remaining refurbished ones).

All surveys (macpolls.com etc) suggest that 40% of people prefer matte. Apple knows it has locked them in to the Mac platform, and even if Apple removes matte, they'll complain a bit, but still buy another Mac. The B*@#$*%S.

There was massive complaints after the iMac was made gloss-only, and Apple did not just ignore it, they went ahead and made the MacBooks all gloss.

Apple does not listen.

Apple is the incarnation of Steve Job's personality.

Steve Jobs does not listen to customers.
Not entirely true. If 40% of customers preferred matte screens, then it must mean that 60% preferred glossy screens. Thus, Apple listened to the majority of their customers and added glossy screens to the iMac, MacBook and MacBook Pro.

CCAALL
Oct 16, 2008, 03:23 AM
so what do you guys recon..... wait for the 17'' update (or even wait for the new i7 CPUs which will hopefully be introduced mid next year) or get a new 15? im just thinking about it because ive got a feeling they might update the 15'' when they do the 17'', just like how they did it earlier this year with the old ones.

baldspot07
Oct 16, 2008, 03:40 AM
Amazon UK has 17" Macbook Pros on preorder for 29th October, graphics card seems wrong though???

http://www.amazon.co.uk/MacBook-17-inch-GeForce-8600MGT-SuperDrive/dp/B001I45TZS/ref=dp_ob_title_ce/026-5611021-2070808?ie=UTF8&qid=1224146091&sr=1-9


http://www.dangerous-dave.com/17".tiff

cal6n
Oct 16, 2008, 03:44 AM
*snip*

The number of drama queens in here is astonishing. If you're not crazy updates, then fine... but the crying is a little excessive.

Some may be drama queens but, if you check their "Join Date", most of the haters are trolls who joined to bash the iPhone or iPhone 3G and are now being mobilised to bash the laptops.

Real Pros aren't anywhere near a forum like this. They're working and they don't care about glossy or matte and they moved to FW800 years ago. The "Pros" here are mostly "Armchair Pros".

Taking firewire off the 13.3 is just wrong, though. Very wrong.

tremendous
Oct 16, 2008, 03:45 AM
Dear Jobs,

I have only one request for the forthcoming notebook display:

MATTE

I AM A DIGITAL PHOTOGRAPHER, DO NOT MAKE ME LOOK ELSEWHERE FOR A PRO LAPTOP. GLOSSY IS UNACCEPTABLE IN THE FIELD, PLEASE TAKE NOTE.

Michael

When someone calls themself a 'digital photographer', they're not really a photographer. it's like calling yourself an analog musician.

cal6n
Oct 16, 2008, 03:46 AM
Amazon UK has 17" Macbook Pros on preorder for 29th October, graphics card seems wrong though???

*snip*

Er, no.

It's the illustration that's wrong.

Mattnh
Oct 16, 2008, 04:01 AM
I'm posting here just to give a shout-out to Apple:
I want to be able to choose for matte.
And 2 FW-ports sre needed next to a solid analogue video output.
64 bit and a videocard with 1 GB of memory would not hurt.
I can not call this new MacBook Pro a PRO-machine in my field of work.
I do live sound and video for theatre/dance-companies and do not wish to carry a Mac Pro with me just because my Powerbook could handle it all just fine.
But it's getting old.
I do not care for a bag full of adapters that I seem to loose easily.
Seems that other laptop-builders have less problems with my PRO wishes.
Do me a favor and get on it!

strikeinsilence
Oct 16, 2008, 04:29 AM
I'm posting here just to give a shout-out to Apple:
I want to be able to choose for matte.
And 2 FW-ports sre needed next to a solid analogue video output.
64 bit and a videocard with 1 GB of memory would not hurt.
I can not call this new MacBook Pro a PRO-machine in my field of work.
I do live sound and video for theatre/dance-companies and do not wish to carry a Mac Pro with me just because my Powerbook could handle it all just fine.
But it's getting old.
I do not care for a bag full of adapters that I seem to loose easily.
Seems that other laptop-builders have less problems with my PRO wishes.
Do me a favor and get on it!

Apple doesn't putz around here, send them feedback at:

http://www.apple.com/feedback/macbookpro.html

Mattnh
Oct 16, 2008, 04:35 AM
And so I did.
Thanks for thinking along.

Glenny2lappies
Oct 16, 2008, 04:38 AM
13" MacBook: 1440x900 standard
15" MacBook Pro: 1680x1050 standard
17" MacBook Pro: 1920x1200 standard

That is how it is supposed to be.

Wrong. OK if your eyes are good, of no use to anyone over about 40.

One of the great benefits of the 17" was having more space to play with but not having to use a magnifying glass to read the text. Given that OSX doesn't allow for font scaling, everything's too small to read.

I really don't want a 17" with 1920x1200, I really do need the slightly lower resolution at 1680x1050.

I'm sure there's some manufacturing reason that these flat panels aren't available with LED backlighting. As they were the only screens with 'traditional' tube lighting, Apple had to ditch them to get their green credentials together.

Apple will be releasing a 17" with the old resolution, probably with the super-shiny-reflective screen as soon as they can get the panels to work.

Also I wonder if they'll use a different chipset?

And finally, they'll release it when its ready. It won't need a big event, it'll just be quietly released -- just as was the case when the Intel machines were first launched; didn't the 17" come after the 15"?

terrordemon
Oct 16, 2008, 04:44 AM
haven't read any of the thread.

this is quad core. mark my word, this thread, this date, and this time.

the new 17" macbook pro, released probably at macworld, will be the first quad core laptop available on the market.

upgrade the video card now, prep for snow leopard, upgrade the cpu when we're all focusing on other things.

quad. core.

pfml07
Oct 16, 2008, 04:46 AM
this is not a good thing to be discussing, it is once again the whole idea of rumours, my god the 17 inch macbook pro is gonna be this and that, blah blah blah, we will have to wait and see

in other news....the fact that apple didnt do anything with the 17 inch macbook pro is utterly outrageous. Thanks Apple! Poor show!

Mattnh
Oct 16, 2008, 04:58 AM
the new 17" macbook pro, released probably at macworld, will be the first quad core laptop available on the market

I think not:
http://www.btonotebooks.nl/html/detail.asp?PartnerID=1&DisplayPartnerID=1&ProductID=353

blimeyoriley
Oct 16, 2008, 05:07 AM
Keep the old one !! mine still feels new haha !!

imm22
Oct 16, 2008, 05:17 AM
think the macbook Pro 17"

Will have a larger keyboard;
Resolution 1650x1050 with only Gloss *


The price will be the same as today, 2799$ or 2499€
With the same tech specs as the 2,53Ghz Macbook Pro.

Don't think they will add another model :o

*The design will be the same as the other models, and is very difficult, if not impossible to have the matte look on that kind of material without loosing definition and originating light refraction and bright spots all over the screen. The only possibility is a second polymer filter on front of the glass... Not apple style. They will unify the style and thats for certain!

uppity
Oct 16, 2008, 05:21 AM
Some people need to see the bigger picture. Apple would probably have announced a 17" Pro if it was ready. The only manufacturing issues that I can see are either the LCD or the larger case (or another unknown value-add [for some] component such as Blu-Ray). They didn't make a point of mentioning the 17" 'refresh' until asked which makes it feel like there is a issue that they didn't want to mention.
On the price front, in the long term the manufacturing costs may be less and the components may be cheaper to build. However, Apple needs to recoup its investment in the manufacturing process. This is more easily done with a high price point at the beginning of a new product. It is a business after all ;)

fps
Oct 16, 2008, 05:47 AM
We're lucky people in MR don't get to design Apple laptops :)

Piplodocus
Oct 16, 2008, 05:57 AM
How useful are 3.0GHz processor, 8GB RAM and Dual Hard Drives to you Digital Skunk on the 17" MacBook Pro? :eek::D

To me? VERY! I want a DAW I can use on stage balanced on top of a synth rack or drum riser!

I'd like a pair of FW800 (or 3200!) on my future 17" MBP. That gives 1 for a FW soundcard and one for a decent audio interface without daisychaining. I currently have a new FW400 soundcard I bought recently and I'm certainly not buying another for most of this decade if I can help it! (a FW400-800 cable won't hurt me for the future-proofing though!)

I'm not sure how good a glossy display is on stage under flashing bright stage lights, but all displays are variable depending on the design and quality so I'll reserve judgement til I see them.

I'm just sorry for the MB (not MBP) purchasers who can't have all the best FW audio interfaces anymore (like MOTU, Apogee, RME, etc.) which all run on FW400, or use FW HDDs. I'd have thought they'd get FW800 upgrade, but they lost FW completely and still only have the same number of USB ports (2)!!! You get more connectivity with the cheapest plastic MB!

7egend
Oct 16, 2008, 06:09 AM
I think in all honesty they should just discontinue the 17" MacBook Pro, the 15" offers plenty of power (2.8Ghz and 4GB of Ram) not to mention the graphic chipset of the 15" trumps the current 17" MBP's. Currently, the high end MacBook Pro is actually the 15" and not the 17".

The only real benefit from the 17" that you could gain in the future is maybe, MAYBE, a Quad Core processor, and speeds of up to 3.0Ghz, and that might be pushing it. Also, you may see the increase of ram to 8GB and maybe if Apple is feeling giddy, they would include the 9400M chipset and a 9800m for the GPU. Blu-Ray drive, I could take or leave. Most of the Blu-Ray movies come with Digital copies, so I just watch the digital copy on the notebook and the actually movie on my TV, I just don't like carrying around a 30 - 50 dollar movie just for it to be dropped and scratched and trampled in a busy airport.

The only reason I could see for the delay of the 17", is the whole engineering aspect, I mean they re-engineered 2 notebooks and refreshed one so they had more than plenty on their plate. Not to mention the new 24" LED Cinema Display w/ Semi Docking Features. I say a new MBP 17" will probably be avialiable at MacWorld, but I would much rather see a display refresh in the new MacBook Pro, give the little 15" a 1920x1080 Res...please...110-113 PPI is not enough, give us atleast 130PPI :(

Piplodocus
Oct 16, 2008, 06:13 AM
Oh, and there will be NO Esata on the MBP 17.

Rumorpeople have been saying Apple would add Esata to Mac Pro, and Macbook Pro.


Just a few questions about eSATA & FW...

Does eSATA only work for HDDs?
What speed is it and how does it compare with FW800 or maybe future FW3200 etc. (obviously FW800 and it's backwards compatibility makes it more useful at present)?
Can you not use the Expresscard slot for an eSATA card or does that severely limit the Bandwidth of the eSATA?
How fast does an expresscard slot go anyway?
Could you use this slot for a FW card to increase the number of FW busses and overall FW bandwidth if using more than 1 FW device, or does the system architecture give you no net gain than daisychaining?

[EDIT: Just checked Wikipedia and Expresscard/34 maxes out at 2.5GB/s whereas eSATA is currently 3GB/s so there's a slight performance increase with eSATA 3GB, but it's still more data than 1x full speed 7200rpm desktop drive can produce, and around 1.5-2 of them so that should keep me happy for a couple of years til SSDs catch up and price-drops!]

JimAtLaw
Oct 16, 2008, 06:30 AM
the new 17" macbook pro, released probably at macworld, will be the first quad core laptop available on the market.
Hate to say it, but Lenovo, HP and Dell are all shipping QX9300 quad core laptops already. I was really hoping Apple would join them this week. {Sigh}

Lenovo's has been well reviewed in a few places and has RAID, Blu-Ray, a monster GPU with 400 nit screen, a color calibrator & a built in digitizer pad.

VoR
Oct 16, 2008, 06:44 AM
esata is just an external version of sata, used by hard disks and optical drives.
On modern systems it's rated to 300MB/s, so it's got a fair bit more bandwidth than any usb/firewire combo and devices interface directly with the controller on the motherboard, you're not relient on expensive(and cheap) hardware in the enclosure.

ps. I wish my 'standard desktop drive' transferred at 200MB/s like you imply :)


That lenovo machine is proper mobile workstation and one of the reasons that I wish if apple arn't matching other companies with sheer 'tech in a box', they should be reducing their prices massively - Everything they do is aimed at and marketed towards an average home user, not sure why they don't push their market share more. (pps. I prefer lenovo's thinkpads because of the keyboard, trackpoint and matte black look)

AdeFowler
Oct 16, 2008, 06:47 AM
According to Amazon it'll be released on the 29th. I'm about to pre-order and see what happens.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/MacBook-17-inch-GeForce-8600MGT-SuperDrive/dp/B001I45TZS/ref=br_lf_m_1000229463_1_3_ttl?ie=UTF8&m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&s=electronics&pf_rd_p=223234991&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_t=1401&pf_rd_i=1000229463&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_r=075G0540P27A1AP8NVCQ

highjumppudding
Oct 16, 2008, 06:49 AM
haven't read any of the thread.

this is quad core. mark my word, this thread, this date, and this time.

the new 17" macbook pro, released probably at macworld, will be the first quad core laptop available on the market.

upgrade the video card now, prep for snow leopard, upgrade the cpu when we're all focusing on other things.

quad. core.

totally agreed. It will if not be the only notebook with a quad core or they may offer it CTO in the 2499 MacBook pro. Most likely 1920x1200 responses only (the made it standard on the current (old) designed model. Hopefully there will be a CTO 1gb gpu card. 8gb ram max.

dr.Zoidberg
Oct 16, 2008, 06:52 AM
How can you transfer digital video from a camcorder to the new MB if there is no firewire? We capture events live to a laptop and (were) about to order a new one.

This is a serious question. I asked in an earlier thread and can't find it with so many posts.

How will consumers, and more importantly k-12 students, be able to edit video inexpensively? I talked to my Broadcasting classes today about this and they were more upset than I was..and they are 15-18 years old!

Are there new cameras coming out that transfer with USB?


It is even cheaper now for students to edit video, they just buy the $999 Macbook White. It still has a firewire 400 and can edit video no problem. I've been doing it for years on an iBook.

And as far as i know, and i am not an expert by any means, but only MiniDV camcorders use Firewire, the Hard drive and flash based all transfer via USB. Of course, their quality is lower, but it should probably be fine for what you are doing.

Sadly, you wont be able to transfer video from a MiniDv camcorder to the newly redesigned MB. I would take advantage of the $999 macbook and its newly added DVD burner while they last.

Goodluck!

PinkyMacGodess
Oct 16, 2008, 06:52 AM
And as of late yesterday, the local Best Buy (Worst Try) did not have ANYTHING up about the new notebooks.

But I do live in Michigan and we are tanking around here...

Sander
Oct 16, 2008, 06:55 AM
Wrong. OK if your eyes are good, of no use to anyone over about 40.

One of the great benefits of the 17" was having more space to play with but not having to use a magnifying glass to read the text. Given that OSX doesn't allow for font scaling, everything's too small to read.

So fix that. I'm typing this on a Dell D830 which is a 15.4" laptop with 1920x1200, and I love it. Windows obviously doesn't support proper scaling either, but at least I have a few more years before I turn 40 ;)

steve-p
Oct 16, 2008, 06:55 AM
According to Amazon it'll be released on the 29th. I'm about to pre-order and see what happens.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/MacBook-17-inch-GeForce-8600MGT-SuperDrive/dp/B001I45TZS/ref=br_lf_m_1000229463_1_3_ttl?ie=UTF8&m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&s=electronics&pf_rd_p=223234991&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_t=1401&pf_rd_i=1000229463&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_r=075G0540P27A1AP8NVCQ

I wouldn't. The title says 8600MGT but the manufacturers blurb says 9600MGT. Looks like the current 'refreshed' model to me with the manufacturer's blurb about the new unibody construction by mistake. They probably believed it when Apple told them it was 'new'.

PinkyMacGodess
Oct 16, 2008, 06:57 AM
And on the new MacBook, is there an ExpressCard slot?

Wow! No FireWire and no ExpressCard slot either...

What does Steve have against MacBook users? Someone mentioned an Ethernet to FireWire adapter. That may be the only way, if such a duck exists...

PinkyMacGodess
Oct 16, 2008, 07:01 AM
It's also interesting, yes, that ALL of the ports are on the same side.

Docking station coming? Interesting...

Cousin Dirk
Oct 16, 2008, 07:11 AM
It's also interesting, yes, that ALL of the ports are on the same side.

Docking station coming? Interesting...

Maybe. It looks to me like that 24" LED Display is to test the water. I get the feeling that if they get the right sort of feedback for what is a display designed mainly for notebooks, they might take the plunge with the docking station.

The 24" LED Display is certainly a step in that direction.

Piplodocus
Oct 16, 2008, 07:21 AM
In this economy the 17" is dead.(along with the MINI) So is Matte screens and FW 400. Apple goes with what sells. 17" and Matte rule the roost-Deal with it;)

Doh! Best sell all those Dell shares as they have far to much choice for consumers and they won't last past the end of October with such a wide variety of sizes, prices, performance, ports, notebooks, minis, netbooks, powerhouse desktops, etc. They could provide for any Windows or Linux user from mobile laptop pro to living room media PC to a web-browsing 92-yr-old grandmother, to a number-crunching power station. Such a recipe for disaster; it'll never work!

/sarcasm

;)

cal6n
Oct 16, 2008, 07:29 AM
*snip*

Someone mentioned an Ethernet to FireWire adapter. That may be the only way, if such a duck exists...

I hear no quacking... :mad: