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arn
Jun 1, 2002, 04:33 AM
YourDailyMac (http://www.yourdailymac.com/mwny1.html) posts their "insider" information on the upcoming MacWorld Expo. They claim updates to the iMac (800mhz-1ghz) and PowerMac (1ghz-1.4ghz duals) at MWNY.

Overall, specs and iMac updates seem unlikely, and historically, YourDailyMac (http://www.macrumors.com/searcharticles.php3?searchterm=yourdailymac) has not been very accurate.

arn
Jun 1, 2002, 04:37 AM
I don't believe that the iMacs will be updated at all at Mac World NY.

arn

iGav
Jun 1, 2002, 05:39 AM
I'm not sure to be honest... but that's because of Apple's recent form of announcing updates on the sly... without the razzamataz...... bells and whistles.....

Not that I want an iMac, but it'd be cool if they junked the 15" and bolted on the 15.2" from the TiBook....... once you've gone wide..... normally screens just don't measure up...... :)

I think MWNY is going to belong to the new Powermac G4's (not a G5) and OSX 'Jaguar'........... and maybe some form of digital device....... :) if the iMac does get an update, it'll be minor speed increase, and certainly not worty of a keynote.......

Falleron
Jun 1, 2002, 06:17 AM
I just dont see a jump of 400Mhz! There have always been 133Mhz jumps. I hope I am wrong though.

iGav
Jun 1, 2002, 06:51 AM
Originally posted by Falleron
I just dont see a jump of 400Mhz! There have always been 133Mhz jumps. I hope I am wrong though.

It does seem like a large jump doesn't it........ 400Mhz.... and some people even talking 500Mhz........

The speed issues and lack of large increase is down to the chip maker, and Apple can only use what's available........ if Motorola could make a chip that would run at 2Ghz, then Apple would make that jump and ignore the speeds imbetween..... Apple doesn't say to Moto "Now we only want a 133Mhz increase Moto you hear!!?" unfortunately Motorola has been struggling in recent times, so we've see only small increases....... I'd like to think though that we'll see a larger jump than 133Mhz at MWNY...... 133 doesn't have to be the norm........ and depending on Motorola's recent development maybe able to break this annoying pattern.......

Falleron
Jun 1, 2002, 07:26 AM
Originally posted by iGAV


It does seem like a large jump doesn't it........ 400Mhz.... and some people even talking 500Mhz........

The speed issues and lack of large increase is down to the chip maker, and Apple can only use what's available........ if Motorola could make a chip that would run at 2Ghz, then Apple would make that jump and ignore the speeds imbetween..... Apple doesn't say to Moto "Now we only want a 133Mhz increase Moto you hear!!?" unfortunately Motorola has been struggling in recent times, so we've see only small increases....... I'd like to think though that we'll see a larger jump than 133Mhz at MWNY...... 133 doesn't have to be the norm........ and depending on Motorola's recent development maybe able to break this annoying pattern.......
I think that if Motorola had a 2Ghz chip ready apple would not use it straigt away! The fact is that they get more money for using the chip speeds in- between. Thats just business. I think we will see a 1.2Ghz tops (200Mhz is still more than usualy + with DDRAM thats a reasonable speed increase).

barkmonster
Jun 1, 2002, 08:10 AM
last time there was a pipeline stage increase to get the clock speed higher, we went from 500Mhz to 733Mhz, I don't see how going from 7 to 12 stages (or is it 10 ?) wouldn't mean another huge leap.

I mean, It's a definate that a 1.2Ghz G4 is possible, someone's already overclocked a 1Ghz G4 to that speed so judging from previous line ups, I think it might happen.

That entry level model won't sell much with such a powerful mid range model, although I imagine that's the point of the pricing scheme.

Billicus
Jun 1, 2002, 08:43 AM
For sanities sake, let's not start a 1.2/1.4/1.5 Ghz battle in this forum. Have a nice day. :D

Falleron
Jun 1, 2002, 09:25 AM
Originally posted by Billicus
For sanities sake, let's not start a 1.2/1.4/1.5 Ghz battle in this forum. Have a nice day. :D
Thats pretty much what the opening comment was about! Its going to be an ongoing debate until the event! Get used to it!

As far as I am aware, there will be no changes in the pipelines (sticking at 10) which make me wonder how we will suddenly get a 400Mhz jump.

barkmonster
Jun 1, 2002, 10:27 AM
10 pipelines ?

wow, I thought we only had 2 vector, 1 integer and 1 floating point pipeline.

maybe that was the older G4 or something.

I know the PPC7450 and 7455 have a 7 stage pipeline and the older PPC7400 and 7410 had a 4 stage pipeline but if the new ones increase to 10 or 12, surely we'll get more MHz at the expense of instructions per clock cycle.

saying that, the original G4 could manage 2.41 IPC, the newer one manages 2.31 IPC so if it drops by 0.1 IPC for ever 3 pipeline stages, we'll have pretty fast macs even they do have almost 3 times the stages as the original G4.

Personally speaking all I'm interested in is running loads of RTAS plug-ins and getting high polyphony out of software synths, I don't care what advancements/compromises are made to the design of the CPU. "fast" will do, I don't care if it's a 1.2Ghz G4 with 7 stages or a 2Ghz G4 with 12 stages, if it screams at what I want to do with it, it's fast enough for me.

Aquanaut
Jun 1, 2002, 10:34 AM
The quoted specs for the desktop look a little lop-sided to me. A twin 1.2 GHz beast with 256MB of RAM is like a Formula one Ferrari with a 2 gallon fuel tank.

The MHz isn't the main thing to watch out for in the next release ...

Grokgod
Jun 1, 2002, 10:57 AM
I think that Apple is fully capable of putting out a 1.4 or even a 1.5 chip.

The question is WILL they?

They had the SOI chips that were running at 1 GHZ for the powermacs
and the powerbooks came out with the 800.

I dont think it was because of heat issues or anything like that.
I think its because of sales across a span of time.
There were a lot of powerbook sales on the 800 model because REV C is the Ti SWEET spot, no doubt about it.

But Apple knows that a 1 GHZ Ti is a whole new sales cycle that will bounce cash flow. Hell there are a lot of people that are waiting for that magic number. Not I! I got the Ti 800, shameless self grandizing!

History will back me up on this, I am certain.

I am sure that they could have upped the PowerMacs to 1.2 a while back instead of the 1 ghz. But it was a great number to reach and coulnt be bypassed for psychological reasons.

I think that they have higher chip speeds waiting in the wings!
A company this big always has tech in the pipeline!

So, I think that the 1.5 exists but will not arrive till the other speeds are milked, sales wise.

I dont agree with the method of speed baiting!
I think that Apple is losing more than they gain with these type of methods.
But its their Modis Operurandi, How do you spell that word?

<Hey is that a new term < Speed Baiting > >

I would be contented if the new chips out are 1.4 with DDR RAM.
I truly doubt that it will be 1.5, thats a whole new MacWorld!

I believe that they should pounce on the Pcheese world and destroy them.
In just sheer ego points for all involved, it would be worth the lost projected sales across the year and made up for, in new users that jump the Wintel ship to cruise the Mac daddy of ship lines.

There must be some business model that says that this is a bad idea.
Perhaps Apple thinks that people will not jump to OSX because of speed increases, and that the increase will arrive anyway eventually and they can have their cake and eat it too, after having milked the Mac Faithful for all their worth!

Thats a lot of cash flow, I am certain!

Yet as one of the faithful, I cant help but feel slightly betrayed because of the scenario that the faithful float the costs so that Pcheeser's can come on board when the all the hardware issues are resolved. And I am left with the need for more speed and yet another computer purchase after I buy whatever is out the MWNY.

Yet, I suppose thats the nature of the beast, someone has to pave the way
for the lost souls in M$ land.

Isnt that always left to the faithful?

Speed Baiting Speed Baiting Speed Baiting < Say it 30 times fast >

Tue12
Jun 1, 2002, 11:03 AM
It's BS folks. There is no such this as a GeForce3MX.

Then a Combo drive in a $1300 iMac?? No way. To expensive a part for that price point Apple product.

1Ghz? Hopefully. Pray for L3 cache too.

Aquanaut
Jun 1, 2002, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by Grokgod


<Hey is that a new term < Speed Baiting > >



I think the term is well known in fishing circles when trying to catch herrings with an amphetamine addiction.

Centris Fan
Jun 1, 2002, 01:15 PM
I don't want to argue with the Powermac Specs.. but I have to disagree with the iMac Specs. I bet they will drop the lowend, and move the middle and high end down and price and just release a better highend, maybe a iMac SE or something like that.

OS 9.3? Seems dubious. The preview edition works fine with 9.2. The only reason I could see would be improved classic support, but it seems good enough already.

By the way, with a Geforce 2MX, Quartz Extreme rocks.

Cappy
Jun 1, 2002, 01:18 PM
There probably won't be a 1.5 ghz PPC unless Moto has managed change the multipliers or Apple uses a frontside bus that is not expected. Do the math:

1500mhz / 133mhz = 11.27(multiplier) <- not going to happen

1500mhz / 100mhz = 15(multiplier) <- not going to happen since 133 or 166 is expected for working with ddr memory

1500mhz /166mhz = 9.03(multiplier) <- this is possible only if Apple goes with the 166mhz frontside bus which no else is doing officially.

now if you figure up 1400mhz, it all makes sense.

1400mhz / 133mhz = 10.5(multiplier) <- This is really the obvious choice for frontside bus so it doubles for the 266mhz ddr ram that will likely be installed.

1400mhz / 100mhz = 14(multiplier) <- possible but extremely doubtful...really only likely if they go with the last generation of rambus memory

Now of course there might be something like a 1.53ghz cpu but that kind of jump is extremely unlikely.

Me? I'd like to see Apple get the jump on the PC folks and implement dual channel ddr. This would give folks something to talk about when comparing bandwidth to the current winner in the latest rambus.

daRAT
Jun 1, 2002, 03:32 PM
I think all we will see is the Xserve guts in a new tower case. Which is not a bad thing. It would be nice to see the 933 mhz chip go to the top end imac with the 1 mb L3 cache. Do away with the 800 and 933 towers, just two levels of PowerMac's, but both with dual cpu's.

(33mhz chip in a Tbook wouldn't be hard to take either :D

Curiousstrngmint
Jun 1, 2002, 06:56 PM
Will there be a bump for the Titanium of any significance at New York?

Falleron
Jun 1, 2002, 07:08 PM
Originally posted by Curiousstrngmint
Will there be a bump for the Titanium of any significance at New York?
Not a chance! Maybe in September/august time.

King Cobra
Jun 1, 2002, 07:22 PM
If I am not mistaken, Apple usually updates their product line every 5 to 6 months and has for a while. The only occassion I can remember of this being not so was the addition of the Combo Drive to the Rev. B Powerbook G4s a short while after the DVD version was released. However, I do not see the need for even a minor update to the current powerbooks right now.

I assume that answers your question, Curiousstrngmint.
__________________

Fear the King.

britboy
Jun 2, 2002, 09:55 AM
I'm very sceptical of the 9.3 rumour. Apple have already had a funeral 'ceremony' for OS 9, telling developers not to worry about it anymore, and to concentrate of X. Why then would apple themselves be working on? 'Do as I say, not what i do'??? Doesn't seem likely. It would be sending out all the wrong messages to developers.

King Cobra
Jun 2, 2002, 10:15 AM
First of all, skeptical of OS 9.3 or not, this was a rumor predicted over 6 months ago by macosrumors, saying that OS 9.3 would be the last stand alone classic OS. 9.4 and 9.5 may follow, but may only run in conjunction with OS X.

Second, my assumption for 9.3 would be that since some folk still run classic and that OS X/OS 9 integration may still need to be improved for stability, Apple may be making this classic update appear/run more stable than previous versions, while adding support for Bluetooth, DDR-RAM or Firewire 2 (I do not think OS 9.2.2 has this support...correct me on this if I am wrong). Otherwise, with the upcoming computers OS 9.2 would be impossible to run, since it probably lacks compatibility with certain new features that may be integrated into updated computers.

So although OS 9 is "dead" for developers, OS 9 is not "dead" in the fact that an update is needed in order to run updated computers in classic.
__________________

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Curiousstrngmint
Jun 3, 2002, 11:17 PM
Originally posted by Falleron

Not a chance! Maybe in September/august time.

Hmmm...how about a price drop? I have to leave for college mid-August, and I don't want to buy a laptop in the middle of September. So should I just buy a titanium now, or wait? If nothing's going to happen I'd like to have it now. :-)

Macette
Jun 3, 2002, 11:38 PM
i can't wait to see the new case...

the B&W G3 was a revolution (that side door!), but i'm ready for a new revolution. anybody got any ideas about what it'll look like?

Curiousstrngmint
Jun 4, 2002, 04:19 PM
On a complete tangent, what do people use for mp3 downloading??

Catfish
Jun 4, 2002, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by Curiousstrngmint


Hmmm...how about a price drop? I have to leave for college mid-August, and I don't want to buy a laptop in the middle of September. So should I just buy a titanium now, or wait? If nothing's going to happen I'd like to have it now. :-)

I was in the same boat, my wintel laptop died in the middle of April, right before finals. I almost bought a Ti then but I am glad I waited a few weeks to get the 667 DVI model. I could have continued to wait since I didn't really need it until August, but what fun would that be?

Sure, it would be nice to have an 800, but the L3 cache, much improved graphics processing and (hopefully) improved speed of 10.2 will make this machine one I can be happy with for a long time. Not to mention it runs cooler!

You'll always want the next new thing but you gotta buy sometime, and this is a great machine. :)

Falleron
Jun 4, 2002, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by Curiousstrngmint


Hmmm...how about a price drop? I have to leave for college mid-August, and I don't want to buy a laptop in the middle of September. So should I just buy a titanium now, or wait? If nothing's going to happen I'd like to have it now. :-)
I almost certain that there will be no new Tibooks until at least Sept. I think everyone will agree that the latest Tibooks are much better than the previous! I suggest you might as well get one now. As for rebates, who knows? They are already doing a rebate on PoweBooks with LCD displays aren't they? I really cant advise on other rebates, I just dont know. Its your choice.

Grokgod
Jun 5, 2002, 11:01 AM
I would have to agree about the new Ti 800's.

There are fantastic, far superior to all previous units.
Apple has solved or refined all the difficulties of the previous models.
Speed,heat , display, all improved!

I dont think that there will be another update for quite awhile.
This is the sweet spot on the Ti's and will be forever known as such.
If you get one, you will be pleased!

Spart
Jun 5, 2002, 05:42 PM
On a 133MHz bus, the G4 cannot be clocked to 1.4GHz. After 8, all the multipliers are whole numbers. Therfore 10.5x133MHz (1.4GHz) isn't happening. What can happen is 11x133MHz which is 1.466GHz, or you can get 1.333GHz. My personal guess is that we will see the 1.333GHz variant this MWNY, but Apple is clearing the slate for MWNY. If the iMac gets updated prior to MWNY, we will be VERY happy campers after MWNY. Trust me.

pc2mac_convert
Jun 5, 2002, 06:38 PM
A couple things...

1. I ordered a dual gig about 6 weeks ago. Took delivery on my flat panel, all my software, and my speakers. The estimated ship time when I ordered online was 3 - 5 days for the system, 1 - 2 for everything else. However, about 7 business-days later I got an email stating that it would be at least another 14+ days for the system... Consequently - with my travel schedule, and a new baby due in July (my third :) I figured - might as well wait... So, my conclusion - it doesn't seem like Apple has piles of dual gig'z just sittin' around.

2. So, could someone explain to me the reasoning - given the above hypothesis - why Apple would intro the Xserve, then wait 4 months to intro the same (relatively) system in a different enclosure??? [I'm simplifying, sure, but are the differences between Xserve and the *rumored* mwny powermacs so dramatic that they require 4 months extra to work them out?]

Why wait to intro bumped powermacs? This year, they haven't dragged their feet intro'ing much else that's been ready. I mean, if its true that the pmac will contain Xserve-similar specs - why the hush, hush, secrecy thing? Talk about a poor sales strategy - selling pmacs that aren't in stock for much lower profits than were realized just a couple of weeks ago???

So - Jobs is WAITING to intro a system that we've all been talkin' about for months...??? Something to think about, perhaps...

jelloshotsrule
Jun 5, 2002, 07:02 PM
Originally posted by pc2mac_convert
So - Jobs is WAITING to intro a system that we've all been talkin' about for months...??? Something to think about, perhaps...


an interesting point. i hadn't though about it like that.

but now that you point it out, i agree.

it seems a bit odd. but then again, the powermacs will have at least a 1.13 ghz if not 1.2, 1.4 or whatever....

that said, maybe they'll add something to the powermac that isn't needed in the xserve per se..... stuff like bluetooth (maybe that's needed in the xserve? got me).... and those types of "smaller" things.

hmm

DavPeanut
Jun 5, 2002, 07:04 PM
Originally posted by Curiousstrngmint
On a complete tangent, what do people use for mp3 downloading??

I use Sputnix, which get music from the Audiogalaxy.com network.

They have lot's of music, but to find copywrited stuff, u have to find one with a weird spelling, or something else like that.
:cool: