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MacRumors
Oct 21, 2008, 05:01 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/10/21/jobs-on-mac-netbooks-not-yet-but/)

Steve Jobs was present at today's financial results (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/10/21/apple-reports-1-14-billion-profit-for-q4-2008/) conference call and answered questions during the Q&A session.

One interesting topic that came up was questions about Apple's interest in the low-cost netbook category of platform. Jobs made it clear that Apple chooses not to target the low-cost notebook market and believes it is a nascent category that will evolve.

Most interesting, however, was that Jobs hinted that if the category does evolve, Apple has "some pretty interesting ideas" about it. Jobs makes it clear that Apple is not going to be competing in this market at this time.

Article Link: Jobs on Mac Netbooks: Not Yet, But... (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/10/21/jobs-on-mac-netbooks-not-yet-but/)



DMann
Oct 21, 2008, 05:02 PM
Sooner than we can imagine - already to manufacture and ship, most likely. iPhone trackpad? We'll soon see.

princealfie
Oct 21, 2008, 05:05 PM
Please make this happen. The economy could use a boost from the Mac sector. I already own 2 Asus netbooks and probably will pick up a larger one with 10.4 screen. If the Macbook Air were cheaper I may have considered getting it.

BigD58
Oct 21, 2008, 05:05 PM
Good. IMHO netbooks are something apple should not waste their time on.

137489
Oct 21, 2008, 05:06 PM
Another interesting thing I read from the article...



- Q: Tablet and touchscreens? When you look at tablet computing, does that get to be a more attractive opportunity? A: I think we have such creative people that are looking at a lot of things, but can't talk about products we're working on.

Could it be coming at macworld?

dAlen
Oct 21, 2008, 05:08 PM
Whats fascinating is 2 things:

1) Steve said they cant make a computer for $500 or it would be junk.
...so, no more mac mini? And does this mean he thinks the mac mini is junk?
(It is $500, or so thats the price I thought I saw.) :)

2) No one asked them how their apple store could put 'new' by the 17" when it carries the same Nvidia 8600 card that has been in the news forever as being faulty? (or better yet, no one asked why they left it in.) ;)

Netbook...sure, if he sees a market, he will go for it.

He saw the consumer market is what made up 2/3 (or more if you think imac) mac sales.

So the consumers get the macbook pro if they want to use their extra gadgets: ie., Lacie double layer burner with 2 firewire ports, firewire hardrives, etc. ;)

And the macbook pro is just barely there for the hardcore pro in the field. :)
Again, cant say enough about the lack of news about a real 17" update.

...but hey, who cares, they are thinking of a netbook - who needs pro anyway? Consumer gives them cash. :) (I understand) ;)

Peace

dAlen

edit:
but in reality, they may just end up being a phone company from the looks of it. :)

nozebleed
Oct 21, 2008, 05:08 PM
I'd rather they didnt water down the product to suit to someone that has asus price and wants apple quality. "you get what you pay for?"

corinhorn
Oct 21, 2008, 05:10 PM
Could it be coming at macworld?

No, Steve Jobs always responds this way when asked this or other similar questions.

DMann
Oct 21, 2008, 05:10 PM
Another interesting thing I read from the article...

Could it be coming at macworld?

Sure would give 'Windows 7' a trail to chase - a mini-multi-touch tablet, larger than an iPhone, running Snow Leopard.

bigandtasty
Oct 21, 2008, 05:10 PM
Nice, so SJ is saying theres a chance!

pmpknetr21
Oct 21, 2008, 05:11 PM
Does the Air not qualify because it's too expensive or the screen is "too big"? As per weight and other specs, it beats the competition, no?

Personally, I don't see the allure of a netbook, though I do see the allure of the Air. A client of mine has one, and my iPhone can do just about everything his 'book can. And when iWork for iPhone and Office for iPhone are released (just speculation...) it will put it over the top.

Just my 2 cents.

ivladster
Oct 21, 2008, 05:13 PM
I hope we see something new at macWorld

Spock
Oct 21, 2008, 05:13 PM
Instead of a netbook I would just like to see them drop the white MacBook and lower the new AL MacBook to fill in the $999 spot. Would also be cool to see them release a $799 iMac if they drop the Mac Mini.

mogzieee
Oct 21, 2008, 05:16 PM
I reckon these will replace the Mac Mini.

ibjoshua
Oct 21, 2008, 05:18 PM
Jobs makes it clear that Apple is not going to be competing in this market at this time.
Yeah. Well, if I remember correctly, Jobs made it clear they were not going to make a video iPod or a phone.

A year (or for that matter a quarter) is long time at Apple.

ibjoshua

billystlyes
Oct 21, 2008, 05:19 PM
Apple doesn't want in the netbook market. They know it will cannibalize MacBook sales. This is the same reason why they are afraid to update the Mac mini. They know it's already outselling the 20" iMacs on Amazon.

abhimat.gautam
Oct 21, 2008, 05:19 PM
I reckon these will replace the Mac Mini.

To replace the Mac mini, Apple needs to come out with a desktop computer. A laptop cannot replace the Mac mini.

DMann
Oct 21, 2008, 05:22 PM
Apple doesn't want in the netbook market. They know it will cannibalize MacBook sales. This is the same reason why they are afraid to update the Mac mini. They know it's already outselling the 20" iMacs on Amazon.

True that - but they need something to drive a spare monitor for someone who doesn't already have one. If not, it's aftermarketsville for the rest of us.

TheSlush
Oct 21, 2008, 05:23 PM
I'm not sure how much I buy this "nascent category" stuff. After all, Apple redefines and reinvents categories, and can even create new ones if the invention is good enough. Surely they're not bound by how "evolved" existing product categories are!

azentropy
Oct 21, 2008, 05:25 PM
To replace the Mac mini, Apple needs to come out with a desktop computer. A laptop cannot replace the Mac mini.

Nor can a cheaper iMac... There is a significant group of users who already have their LCD's and want a desktop computer to go with it that doesn't start at > $2K

stagi
Oct 21, 2008, 05:27 PM
Macworld 2010 they will roll this out

macshill
Oct 21, 2008, 05:28 PM
But that would provide innovation and value for the customer. Apple is not familiar w/ that concept. *rolls eyes*

slffl
Oct 21, 2008, 05:28 PM
Good. IMHO netbooks are something apple should not waste their time on.

I agree. I don't see the market for people needing something between an iPhone and the Macbook Air. Seriously, are there those of you out there that need something like that?

azentropy
Oct 21, 2008, 05:28 PM
Does the Air not qualify because it's too expensive or the screen is "too big"?

Correct, both the price (by about 3x) and the footprint are too big to qualify as a "netbook".

azentropy
Oct 21, 2008, 05:30 PM
I agree. I don't see the market for people needing something between an iPhone and the Macbook Air. Seriously, are there those of you out there that need something like that?

Most definitely YES!

137489
Oct 21, 2008, 05:31 PM
Instead of a netbook I would just like to see them drop the white MacBook and lower the new AL MacBook to fill in the $999 spot. Would also be cool to see them release a $799 iMac if they drop the Mac Mini.

I do not agree 100%, more like 90%. I would like to see them keep the white macbook and drop that to $799 and then drop the aluminum to $1099 (although $999 would be better) - why I say this? Not everyone wants the new alu model, but it would be nice to have the white for people who can't afford the new one. also Axiotron is starting a mod'ing service - you send them your macbook and they will mod it into a tablet for like $1200 I think it was.

A full size tablet for under $2000 sounds nice to me..... I am sure with all the macbooks axiotron is buying, they would not just stop making the white. Axiotron has to be doing good if they are expanding the service.

ibjoshua
Oct 21, 2008, 05:32 PM
I agree. I don't see the market for people needing something between an iPhone and the Macbook Air. Seriously, are there those of you out there that need something like that?
Well, I take my iBook to bed with me most nights in lieu of a book or e-reader. I think I'd find plenty of use for a lightweight over-sized iPod Touch. Not sure if I need it to be phone but something for taking notes, watching a bit of video on the road and reading stuff would be great.

ibjoshua

Marx55
Oct 21, 2008, 05:33 PM
2:52 PT - DM: STM: Tablets and touchscreens? More attractive opportunity going forward?
2:52 PT - DM: Steve: Such creative people that are looking at a lot of things, but can’t talk about future products.

NeXT Apple Netbook:

Next Apple moves will be Books and Games…
http://spidouz.wordpress.com/2008/09/03/next-apple-moves-will-be-books-and-games

WILL SELL MILLIONS!

onicon
Oct 21, 2008, 05:34 PM
i honestly doubt photographers will be able to use a mac much longer. the glossy mbp 17" is horrible and the new 15" are worse. way to much glare even when calibrated and set to maximum brightness to assess or compare photos.

as a consumer device the new mb and mbp with glass display are astounding, beautiful and a charm to work/play with.

let's see how it goes...

pmpknetr21
Oct 21, 2008, 05:34 PM
Whats fascinating is 2 things:

1) Steve said they cant make a computer for $500 or it would be junk.
...so, no more mac mini? And does this mean he thinks the mac mini is junk?
(It is $500, or so thats the price I thought I saw.)

I took that as meaning a full computer, with monitor, keyboard and mouse. If you add a 20" Cinema Display alone, you're talking at least $1198. That's more than double the $500 price point.

Just my 2 cents.

Alchematron
Oct 21, 2008, 05:35 PM
Jobs fails to license OS (Biggest blunder in computer history)

And crank out 10" Air

Think Different?

spacepower7
Oct 21, 2008, 05:38 PM
Hmm 1299 Macbook or Dell 9 hackintosh for 399 for a second or 3rd cpu

gnasher729
Oct 21, 2008, 05:42 PM
I'd say blown-up iPod Touch: Twice the screen size in every direction (960 x 640 pixels). Slightly faster ARM processor, more RAM, apps can run in background. WiFi only.

Squozen
Oct 21, 2008, 05:43 PM
Jobs fails to license OS (Biggest blunder in computer history)

I wish I could make a blunder that earned me $25 billion.

twoodcc
Oct 21, 2008, 05:49 PM
i'm not getting my hopes up after that

Loge
Oct 21, 2008, 05:51 PM
I agree. I don't see the market for people needing something between an iPhone and the Macbook Air. Seriously, are there those of you out there that need something like that?

Yes. There are many people who write for a hobby for one example. This is not something you can easily do on an iPhone, and an Air is overkill and larger than needs to be for this.

weckart
Oct 21, 2008, 05:56 PM
I agree. I don't see the market for people needing something between an iPhone and the Macbook Air. Seriously, are there those of you out there that need something like that?

I need food, water and air to breathe. Pretty much everything else falls under "want". Markets do very well out of want. That spawned advertising for one.

Posting this on a very unnecessary newly retro-white MSI Wind running 10.5.5. And very nice it is, too.

sfh
Oct 21, 2008, 05:56 PM
I think ill gag if another mobile device comes out before they address the missing mid tower ... please make something soon

ibjoshua
Oct 21, 2008, 05:59 PM
I wish I could make a blunder that earned me $25 billion.
Me too. Was that poster being sarcastic? If not then he or she should do some reading. Keeping the Mac OSes close to the chest has always benefited Apple. Licensing nearly destroyed it.
ibjoshua

bdkennedy1
Oct 21, 2008, 06:02 PM
Every single time Steve has said that, a year later we have that product.

queshy
Oct 21, 2008, 06:08 PM
Good. IMHO netbooks are something apple should not waste their time on.

agreed...apple has made it clear nobody likes small keyboard and tiny screens and poor performance in a COMPUTER.

Every single time Steve has said that, a year later we have that product.

example?

avatar1632
Oct 21, 2008, 06:14 PM
i honestly doubt photographers will be able to use a mac much longer. the glossy mbp 17" is horrible and the new 15" are worse. way to much glare even when calibrated and set to maximum brightness to assess or compare photos.

as a consumer device the new mb and mbp with glass display are astounding, beautiful and a charm to work/play with.

let's see how it goes...

Laptop LCDs are, at most, 6-bits color per pixel and you need at least 8-bits per pixel to get accurate and decent color representation. Fancy hardware-level dithering will not cut it here for any photographer that would care about matte vs. glossy screens.

Do not color-correct photos on your laptop's built-in LCD. Anything else but not that. :)

1984
Oct 21, 2008, 06:15 PM
I agree. I don't see the market for people needing something between an iPhone and the Macbook Air. Seriously, are there those of you out there that need something like that?

Yes!!! I would like a small tablet device similar to the iPhone but maybe 1.5x larger, 720x480, 32GB or 64GB and more capabilities such as copy/paste, file saving, etc.

ibjoshua
Oct 21, 2008, 06:15 PM
If anyone wants to read a really good reason why licensing the Macintosh OS in the 80s would have been a terrible idea, look no further than John Gruber's 2004 blog entry:
http://daringfireball.net/2004/08/parlay

ibjoshua

Spades
Oct 21, 2008, 06:15 PM
agreed...apple has made it clear nobody likes small keyboard and tiny screens and poor performance in a COMPUTER.

Apple doesn't speak for me or anybody else that has bought a netbook. I've found the 7" screen of my Asus annoying but not enough to regret buying it. I will certainly be making my next notebook a 9" at least (doesn't change the size of the computer at all) but the 7" is perfectly usable. The smaller keyboard has never been a problem.

Plus a small footprint doesn't mean that it has to have poor performance. My cheapo Eee 701 performs well enough, and more recent netbooks blow it away. With dual core Atom processors on the way they'll get even faster.

Just because it's a netbook does not mean the user experience is automatically poor.

WoFat
Oct 21, 2008, 06:25 PM
In a land of $100 hookers, the $10 skank is king. There's no honor in being the cheapest flea bag. It's best Apple not compete here.

calculus
Oct 21, 2008, 06:26 PM
Seriously, are there those of you out there that need something like that?

Er, that would be me and almost everyone I know…

NT1440
Oct 21, 2008, 06:28 PM
Yes!!! I would like a small tablet device similar to the iPhone but maybe 1.5x larger, 720x480, 32GB or 64GB and more capabilities such as copy/paste, file saving, etc.

How would u use that?

corinhorn
Oct 21, 2008, 06:29 PM
Every single time Steve has said that, a year later we have that product.Not usually. During just about every Q and A, someone always asks Steve about a potential future product/strategy. He always responds in a similar way. Over a year ago, someone asked him about implementing a touch screen into a Mac. He responded by saying something like "You could say that it is in our research queue." That mythical MacTouch has yet to surface.

Lau
Oct 21, 2008, 06:32 PM
Of course he's going to say that – he doesn't want every potential MacBook customer waiting for the new netbook instead of buying a MacBook. The fact that they've kept the old white MacBook alongside it for the time being shows they know they need a cheaper laptop (or similar) than the now more expensive MacBook, and that'll be the netbook (or something along those lines).

There's no way he's going to say that though, they want as many people as they can to buy the MacBooks, and then buy the netbook when it comes out as well.

kevinws
Oct 21, 2008, 06:32 PM
I'd rather they didnt water down the product to suit to someone that has asus price and wants apple quality. "you get what you pay for?"

Lets not forget that ASUS built the iBook for Apple so their quality can't be that bad

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=1642&commentid=19308&threshhold=1&red=3320

Eidorian
Oct 21, 2008, 06:36 PM
I'm ordering a netbook to give a disabled sibling a computer to type up all their short stories. :(

I really wish it was a Mac.

ArtOfWarfare
Oct 21, 2008, 06:41 PM
I would love to see Apple make an app store for Mac OS X. I think there would be quite a boom in Mac programming. If they're getting serious about games on the Touch... maybe they can finally get serious about having the major PC game developers developing for the Mac? Boot Camp would become truly useless if Valve began making their games native on the Mac.

z-hayden
Oct 21, 2008, 06:41 PM
oh damn it, I feel some new rumors coming lol...I hate the anticipation

Jiten
Oct 21, 2008, 06:43 PM
Does the Air not qualify because it's too expensive or the screen is "too big"? As per weight and other specs, it beats the competition, no?

Just my 2 cents.

There are fully featured sub notebooks (optical drive and all) out there that matches the air in portability such as the Vaio Z series. Nope, its not paper thin but it does have similar price, better specs (probably except for the GPU), optical drive, better battery life, aluminum/carbon fiber enclosure and has a smaller foot print then the air. Of course, the only problem is, it runs Vista.

Also. One of the reason I always fail to bring my PC subnotebook/netbook friends into the Mac fold is simply because they want a computer with a smaller foot print rather then being wide and super thin.

NT1440
Oct 21, 2008, 06:44 PM
I would love to see Apple make an app store for Mac OS X. I think there would be quite a boom in Mac programming. If they're getting serious about games on the Touch... maybe they can finally get serious about having the major PC game developers developing for the Mac? Boot Camp would become truly useless if Valve began making their games native on the Mac.

For game developers to come more willingly to mac, apple needs a much higher marketshare. Give it time....

Yr Blues
Oct 21, 2008, 06:44 PM
12 inch dammit! End of rant! :D

Srai-W
Oct 21, 2008, 06:50 PM
To replace the Mac mini, Apple needs to come out with a desktop computer. A laptop cannot replace the Mac mini.

Exactly. I have been looking at a netbook, and a desktop. They have different functions and I don't want to be unplugging everything when I want to use my netbook.

I guess the waiting continues!

macsmurf
Oct 21, 2008, 06:56 PM
So Steve Jobs isn't impressed with the number of netbooks sold?

http://blog.laptopmag.com/asus-ceo-reveals-eee-pc-sales-numbers-plans-for-touch-eee-pcs-and-more-eee-family-products

NT1440
Oct 21, 2008, 06:58 PM
So Steve Jobs isn't impressed with the number of netbooks sold?

http://blog.laptopmag.com/asus-ceo-reveals-eee-pc-sales-numbers-plans-for-touch-eee-pcs-and-more-eee-family-products


I think he sees them as cheap and in a way, gimmicky.

Or that may just be my thinking....

lftrghtparadigm
Oct 21, 2008, 06:58 PM
Finally people can stop sqawking about this and focus on the macbook/iphone combo.

Vulpinemac
Oct 21, 2008, 06:59 PM
i honestly doubt photographers will be able to use a mac much longer. the glossy mbp 17" is horrible and the new 15" are worse. way to much glare even when calibrated and set to maximum brightness to assess or compare photos.

as a consumer device the new mb and mbp with glass display are astounding, beautiful and a charm to work/play with.

let's see how it goes...

As a photographer, I strongly disagree with you. I have found the glossy screen easier to use and bright enough both before and after calibration to make photography work easier and more accurate. In fact, simply because of the polished glass, the clarity of the screen is far superior to the semi-translucent anti-glare displays.

wizard
Oct 21, 2008, 06:59 PM
I agree. I don't see the market for people needing something between an iPhone and the Macbook Air. Seriously, are there those of you out there that need something like that?

I think you are wrong about a divice between an iPhone and an AIR. But that device won't be a NetBook but rather a tablet about the size of a Newton or a little larger. The device would still run mobile OS and hopefully network as well.

Dave

Vidd
Oct 21, 2008, 07:01 PM
We can all hypothesise about why Apple won't enter the market yet but chances are, they have good reasons for doing so and probably have information that we don't. Maybe they don't like the way they currently sacrifice power for portability so although they're running XP or even Vista, it's not like running an OS designed for the platform. It could be a case of another OS X derivative like the iPhone.

macsmurf
Oct 21, 2008, 07:08 PM
We can all hypothesise about why Apple won't enter the market yet but chances are, they have good reasons for doing so and probably have information that we don't. Maybe they don't like the way they currently sacrifice power for portability so although they're running XP or even Vista, it's not like running an OS designed for the platform. It could be a case of another OS X derivative like the iPhone.

There is only one reason for Apple not to enter an emerging market: Too low profit margins.

wizard
Oct 21, 2008, 07:15 PM
We can all hypothesise about why Apple won't enter the market yet but chances are, they have good reasons for doing so and probably have information that we don't. Maybe they don't like the way they currently sacrifice power for portability so although they're running XP or even Vista, it's not like running an OS designed for the platform. It could be a case of another OS X derivative like the iPhone.

I honestly believe that the reason we haven't seen new portable Touch based devices is that Apple doesn't have Mobile OS up to speed yet. Lets face it if you are familiar with iPhone App development you would realize that it has a ways to go yet. There are weak spots, bugs and simply missing pieces. If Apple can get all of that sorted out then we ought to see a new portable device. The interesting thing is, it is rather obvious from the SDK that there are plans for different devices in the future.

If only we could get a NDA possessor or Apple engineer drunk we could sort all of this out.

dave

queshy
Oct 21, 2008, 07:24 PM
Apple doesn't speak for me or anybody else that has bought a netbook. I've found the 7" screen of my Asus annoying but not enough to regret buying it. I will certainly be making my next notebook a 9" at least (doesn't change the size of the computer at all) but the 7" is perfectly usable. The smaller keyboard has never been a problem.

Plus a small footprint doesn't mean that it has to have poor performance. My cheapo Eee 701 performs well enough, and more recent netbooks blow it away. With dual core Atom processors on the way they'll get even faster.

Just because it's a netbook does not mean the user experience is automatically poor.

I 100% agree with you. Most netbook users are thrilled with their little machines. After all, they're much cheaper than conventional notebooks and way more portable.

But if you watch the presentation on the MBA (Jan 08), jobs makes it clear that in making a notebook smaller, tehy didn't want to sacrifice on processing power, screen size, or keyboard. The MacBook Air (which is definitely not a netbook) is very portable but at the same time has a big screen and big keyboard. That's where Apple wants to be right now. A problem with many ultraportables is that while they are thin and light, they compromise on keyboard, screen size, and power.

Who knows though? I don't have a crystal ball, but it looks like Apple is trying to capture the higher end/higher price space right now. There can't be that much profitability in netbooks (compared to MacBook Pros, for example).

Demosthenes X
Oct 21, 2008, 07:26 PM
There is only one reason for Apple not to enter an emerging market: Too low profit margins.

I disagree. I think producing a netbook would give Apple a fantastic "in" to build its customer base. Lots of people are buying netbooks, but it would be foolish to assume that it's their only computer. If Apple sold an $800 netbook, they could attract new customers who would (in theory) eventually buy a higher-end Mac with a better profit margin.

I doubt the iPod Shuffle has a very good profit margin, but I'll also be many Shuffle buyers eventually upgrade to a better iPod. The cheaper products get people in the door, which is a very important step. The hardest thing to do is attract customers...

I think the lack of an Apple netbook has more to do with it detracting from MacBook sales than it does the market not being profitable.

And I hope to god if Apple does make a netbook, it's not "Newton-sized". A netbook needs a decent keyboard, something you won't get on a product that small. A netbook running a version of the iPhone software but with a full keyboard would be fantastic... especially if it were touch screen.

lakaiordie
Oct 21, 2008, 07:27 PM
a hinged iphone design (but bigger) with 2 screens running a full os would be cool.

Rassybat
Oct 21, 2008, 07:34 PM
Oh well. I'm not getting my hopes up. At least not after the last downgrade to the...

I mean upgrade to the MacBooks. We'll see what happens.

ArtOfWarfare
Oct 21, 2008, 07:36 PM
For game developers to come more willingly to mac, apple needs a much higher marketshare. Give it time....

Oh! lol, I overlooked that. I had assumed that it was the app store that made gaming on the iPod Touch so popular. No... it's the complete monopoly. No other company offers such a popular device that's so cheap to develop games for. The app store just makes it even easier for the beginning programmers (myself included,) to distribute their apps... the big companies (like aforementioned Valve,) don't need such a bait. They made Steam for Windows and could probably do the same thing for Mac if they were so inclined (which would require, as you stated, the Mac to have a higher market share.)

So... how high does the market share have to be before they'll start doing it?

[quote=lakaiordie]a hinged iphone design (but bigger) with 2 screens running a full os would be cool.[quote] mmm... I prefer the idea of having a iPhone with a screen so flexible that you can fold it in half the way you would a peace of paper and yet study enough to not wrinkle, break, and hold it's shape when in use... of course that's more or less a complete fantasy (I think the military has flexible digital maps like I just described... but my understanding is they're very expensive... far too expensive for any consumer product.)

pmpknetr21
Oct 21, 2008, 07:49 PM
Jobs fails to license OS (Biggest blunder in computer history)

And crank out 10" Air

Think Different?

Really? $25 Billion in the bank, most cpu's sold in a quarter in the company's history, surpassed established handset maker RIM in handheld sales, iPod's own over 70% market share, and you think NOT licensing the OS will be the biggest blunder in history? Are you aware of Apple's first foray into clone-dom and how it failed?

OS X on non-Apple hardware is NOT a Mac.

macsmurf
Oct 21, 2008, 07:50 PM
I disagree. I think producing a netbook would give Apple a fantastic "in" to build its customer base. Lots of people are buying netbooks, but it would be foolish to assume that it's their only computer. If Apple sold an $800 netbook, they could attract new customers who would (in theory) eventually buy a higher-end Mac with a better profit margin.


Well, the halo effect obviously works but in the end nobody but the person in charge knows the reasoning behind Apple's lineup, and he isn't talking. I realize Jobs likes to give his spiel about Apple making products they themselves would love to have but I'm not buying that hook and sinker, although I do believe there's some truth to it. I've been continuously unimpressed by the build quality of Apple computers for a while now, although it looks like they might have turned a corner.


I doubt the iPod Shuffle has a very good profit margin, but I'll also be many Shuffle buyers eventually upgrade to a better iPod. The cheaper products get people in the door, which is a very important step. The hardest thing to do is attract customers...


I would think that the shuffle is dirt cheap to produce and that the profit margin is more than decent, but who knows?


I think the lack of an Apple netbook has more to do with it detracting from MacBook sales than it does the market not being profitable.

And I hope to god if Apple does make a netbook, it's not "Newton-sized". A netbook needs a decent keyboard, something you won't get on a product that small. A netbook running a version of the iPhone software but with a full keyboard would be fantastic... especially if it were touch screen.

Although I would love to get my hands on an Apple produced netbook I think Apple are doing the right thing by focusing on the high quality market. As long as they deliver I think it is a very sound strategy - even with the financial situation in the US being uncertain. Apple's product might be luxury items but they are still affordable - a few years ago everything was priced above Apple's current price points.

Rocketman
Oct 21, 2008, 07:56 PM
One interesting topic that came up was questions about Apple's interest in the low-cost netbook category of platform. Jobs made it clear that Apple chooses not to target the low-cost notebook market and believes it is a nascent category that will evolve.

Most interesting, however, was that Jobs hinted that if the category does evolve, Apple has "some pretty interesting ideas" about it. Jobs makes it clear that Apple is not going to be competing in this market at this time.


Wrong characterization.

He eschews the low cost NOTEbook market, and has ideas about the NETbook market but notes the iPhone itself is an entry in that space.

Clarified.

Rocketman

iMacmatician
Oct 21, 2008, 07:58 PM
Personally, I don't see the allure of a netbook, though I do see the allure of the Air. A client of mine has one, and my iPhone can do just about everything his 'book can. And when iWork for iPhone and Office for iPhone are released (just speculation...) it will put it over the topI see a mini-tablet from Apple. 5" display, iPhone OS, iLife, and iWork mobile. Add background apps and better specs in general and we have a winner. [quote=ibjoshua;6471763]A year (or for that matter a quarter) is long time at Apple.[quote]MWSF 2009? Too soon?

barcodebawtv
Oct 21, 2008, 08:01 PM
I agree. I don't see the market for people needing something between an iPhone and the Macbook Air. Seriously, are there those of you out there that need something like that?

I've got an iMac at home, I just need something for school to get online, check e-mail, and take notes in class.
If not a Netbook, the ability to use a bluetooth or even dock connected keyboard for the iPhone/ Touch would be a great solution! I'd much rather buy an iPod Touch over an Asus.

Bentov
Oct 21, 2008, 08:11 PM
I wish I could make a blunder that earned me $25 billion.

I'm with you brother.

Apple is a hardware company 1st, and a software company 2nd. Why don't people get this?

They did not make a blunder, you don't make $25 billion by mistake. I would be willing to bet he really knows what he is doing.

Yr Blues
Oct 21, 2008, 08:26 PM
I'd rather they didnt water down the product to suit to someone that has asus price and wants apple quality. "you get what you pay for?"

Yeah, they should only sell the MacBook Pro and forget about any sub-$2000 proletarian market. ;)

Sweetfeld28
Oct 21, 2008, 08:26 PM
i would like to see what Jobs' design team could/would come up with.

demiphonic
Oct 21, 2008, 08:28 PM
a Mac Table would be soooo sweet :rolleyes: I wonder if they may come out with one at WWDC? :confused:

anubis
Oct 21, 2008, 08:30 PM
Apple is all about selling things with a really high margin. I don't think Steve thinks netbooks have a high enough profit margin to make it worth it to him to make and sell.

anubis
Oct 21, 2008, 08:32 PM
Jobs fails to license OS (Biggest blunder in computer history)

And crank out 10" Air

Think Different?

Except apple did license their OS for about half a year and it was an absolute fiscal disaster for them. You must not be old enough to remember that

actionbastard
Oct 21, 2008, 08:35 PM
Because Apple refuses to make a cheap laptop/netbook computer, they are pricing themselves out of the K-12 education market -especially in California. Budgets are constantly shrinking and Apple still thinks they can compete on price/value with the PeeCee makers. Sorry, Steve, you lose.

1984
Oct 21, 2008, 08:36 PM
How would u use that?

Same way I use the iPhone, why?

NT1440
Oct 21, 2008, 08:38 PM
Same way I use the iPhone, why?

I cant imagine using an iphone like device where i couldnt reach half the buttons on keyboard while holding it;)

Michael CM1
Oct 21, 2008, 08:42 PM
Wouldn't Apple be able to sell more computers by offering a mid-tower design for about $1200? The thing I hate most about the iMac is you're stuck with your monitor choice once you buy one. That's neat for a lot of people, but for a crapload of us it stinks.

I would love to see a Mac mid-tower that looks a lot like Dell's Inspiron. The fact that most PC desktops are mid-towers and Apple doesn't make one STILL kinda surprises me, especially when they have such a jones for the MacBook Air (twice the price, half the guts!).

tjcampbell
Oct 21, 2008, 08:44 PM
I want to buy a netbook. If apple doesn't make one soon I may have to go to the dark side.

iMacmatician
Oct 21, 2008, 08:46 PM
a Mac Table would be soooo sweet :rolleyes: I wonder if they may come out with one at WWDC? :confused:Maybe, if the tablet required a different set of developer tools.

new2mac1970
Oct 21, 2008, 08:54 PM
Thousands of Netbooks are being purchased in school districts all around the U.S. It is just starting to take off. Netbooks are the way of the future in the classroom. Buying a MB even with an educational discount is way too pricey. Apple has always been serious about education, but it seems silly that they won't consider this sub $500 group as a viable market. These students will be the people who later buy...MB, MBPros, Airs when they are in college.

Come on Apple.

minijon
Oct 21, 2008, 09:22 PM
When I used Mac's in elementary school (OS 7 & 8), the user experience was much better than the Windows 98 Machines. There's no telling how many times, for example, you'd go to save your work, and it would crash on you. Then the teacher made us stay in for recess if we hadn't finished our projects. Needless to say, everyone bum-rushed the Mac's so they could actually go to recess. Since then, I really just have hated PC's. However, now in high school, they've got some of those IBM T-whatevers with just the point nub. And what do you know... everyone hates those too. If Apple were to put out crap for $500, it would turn away potential buyers. Provided a quality product entered the school for that price though, it would probably be beneficial. And hey, these uni-body designs are like tanks (if you take away the glass). (Not to start yet another glossy v matte)

demiphonic
Oct 21, 2008, 09:26 PM
Could someone please tell me what would be soooo cool about a new apple netbook? :rolleyes: Cause I don’t see the appeal. :confused: I mean how small is TOO small? :eek: An iPhone is a great size because it has to be!.. doesn’t hurt that it has internet either. But I think a 13.3 inch Macbook is portable enough. Beside weight.. what benefits would a netbook give a user? :confused: Just asking. :p

queshy
Oct 21, 2008, 09:31 PM
a Mac Table would be soooo sweet :rolleyes: I wonder if they may come out with one at WWDC? :confused:

4 legs. Pure glass. Self-cleaning. I'd buy one.

Tosser
Oct 21, 2008, 09:33 PM
Could someone please tell me what would be soooo cool about a new apple netbook? :rolleyes: Cause I don’t see the appeal. :confused: I mean how small is TOO small? :eek: An iPhone is a great size because it has to be!.. doesn’t hurt that it has internet either. But I think a 13.3 inch Macbook is portable enough. Beside weight.. what benefits would a netbook give a user? :confused: Just asking. :p

Besides weight? Try "size" –*"because it has to be" ;)

kas23
Oct 21, 2008, 09:35 PM
It's interesting that people on here are blasting Asus. Do you guys even own one? Everyone who I know who has one LOVES it, including myself. In fact, I'm typing on it right now. I use it just as much as my powerbook G4. It's nothing flashy, but it does what I want it to do, it was very cheap, doesn't turn into a hot plate with minimal use, and it has an excellent battery life.

I don't think a sub-$500 dollar netbook automatically makes it "cheap." I've had my eee for over a year and it is just as fast as my powerbook. I've had zero problems. True, it runs XP, but at least it is not vista. I keep it very clean (software wise) and it hasn't experienced any slow-down, like other windows machines.

Here are the number sold so far this year:

http://blog.laptopmag.com/asus-ceo-reveals-eee-pc-sales-numbers-plans-for-touch-eee-pcs-and-more-eee-family-products

Selling 4-5 million units at $400-$500 a pop is not bad.

Seems like Jobs is reluctant to jump in the ring because (1) he already missed the boat, or more likely (2) it will likely mean less MacBooks and MBPs sold. Too bad because I would love OS X on this.

NT1440
Oct 21, 2008, 09:36 PM
Could someone please tell me what would be soooo cool about a new apple netbook? :rolleyes: Cause I don’t see the appeal. :confused: I mean how small is TOO small? :eek: An iPhone is a great size because it has to be!.. doesn’t hurt that it has internet either. But I think a 13.3 inch Macbook is portable enough. Beside weight.. what benefits would a netbook give a user? :confused: Just asking. :p

+1

Im actually not sure what apple could offer besides looks that would make it any different from another netbook. If it was too different it wouldnt be a netbook now would it?

demiphonic
Oct 21, 2008, 09:36 PM
ahahahaha :D yeah ....ummmmmm "Tablet"! hehehe my bad :p

but really if they really made a table I think we would ALL still buy it. That Steve J 'Distortion field' is powerful :p

joemama
Oct 21, 2008, 09:37 PM
Because Apple refuses to make a cheap laptop/netbook computer, they are pricing themselves out of the K-12 education market -especially in California. Budgets are constantly shrinking and Apple still thinks they can compete on price/value with the PeeCee makers. Sorry, Steve, you lose.
You got it! I can't tell you how many PC laptop carts our school has. All the kids do on them are Word and browse the Internet.

If Apple had a low-cost laptop I'm sure some of those carts would be Macs. Since Apple doesn't have any, it's PCs all the way.

There is only ONE thing school districts look at - Budgets, and what costs the least.

dongmin
Oct 21, 2008, 09:37 PM
I disagree. I think producing a netbook would give Apple a fantastic "in" to build its customer base. Lots of people are buying netbooks, but it would be foolish to assume that it's their only computer. If Apple sold an $800 netbook, they could attract new customers who would (in theory) eventually buy a higher-end Mac with a better profit margin.

I doubt the iPod Shuffle has a very good profit margin, but I'll also be many Shuffle buyers eventually upgrade to a better iPod. The cheaper products get people in the door, which is a very important step. The hardest thing to do is attract customers...

I think the lack of an Apple netbook has more to do with it detracting from MacBook sales than it does the market not being profitable.

And I hope to god if Apple does make a netbook, it's not "Newton-sized". A netbook needs a decent keyboard, something you won't get on a product that small. A netbook running a version of the iPhone software but with a full keyboard would be fantastic... especially if it were touch screen.

You bring up some very good points, but I have to disagree on some of those.

The difference between a low-cost computer and a iPod Shuffle is that the Shuffle is almost a disposable product that consumers replace/upgrade at a much shorter cycle. I've personally lost/destroyed a couple Shuffles and Nanos that I didn't feel too bad about replacing because of the relative low cost.

But computers, and to a lesser extent the iPhone, has much longer shelf life. If people are holding on to their Macs for 4+ years, then that Mac better be a $1500+ machine that Apple will make a fat profit on.

The key phrases for Apple are: "profit margins" and "does not cannibalize existing higher-margin products." A netbook will have low-margins and will cannibalize MacBook/MBA sales. At the same time, if it's a fully-functioning Mac OS X system, then people will hold on to it at the more typical 4+ years PC cycle.

I say the netbook, as it stands now, is between a rock and a hard place...for a high-margin computer maker like Apple. But, as others have noted, Apple could find a way to 're-invent" the market to their liking.

The di

lakaiordie
Oct 21, 2008, 09:44 PM
the air really isnt that 'ultraportable' its thin and all. but it takes up the same space as any other 13" notebook. an 11" version would be nice to compete with the sony t series.

NT1440
Oct 21, 2008, 09:46 PM
the air really isnt that 'ultraportable' its thin and all. but it takes up the same space as any other 13" notebook. an 11" version would be nice to compete with the sony t series.

I personally dont get how anyone that can carry around a 11" notebook doesnt have the room for a 13".

Tosser
Oct 21, 2008, 09:47 PM
I personally dont get how anyone that can carry around a 11" notebook doesnt have the room for a 13".

Couldn't you use the same argument to say the same about 13 and 15 inches? 15 and 17? 17 and 19?

demiphonic
Oct 21, 2008, 09:48 PM
The key phrases for Apple are: "profit margins" and "does not cannibalize existing higher-margin products." A netbook will have low-margins and will cannibalize MacBook/MBA sales. At the same time, if it's a fully-functioning Mac OS X system, then people will hold on to it at the more typical 4+ years PC cycle.
The di

Exactly . I was now gonna say that part. :cool:

I wonder though if a 'Mac Pro Mini' is more feasible or will it do the same thing to the Mac Pro? :confused:

Rassybat
Oct 21, 2008, 09:49 PM
I want to buy a netbook. If apple doesn't make one soon I may have to go to the dark side.

Same here. I don't wanna but apple doesn't have anything in that class and that dell mini is tempting me

latchthekid
Oct 21, 2008, 09:49 PM
I cant imagine using an iphone like device where i couldnt reach half the buttons on keyboard while holding it;)

I have to agree. I like the idea of a tablet especially for graphic designers and the likes. But the idea of 10"-12" tablet doesn't seem logical. Handling it would be a pain in the :apple:ss. This is why there are third party companies to fill that small group of people who want OSX on a tablet. However if Apple get into the tablet business, besides the iphone obviously, I think it will be a blend of tablet and netbook and it will be a sub-$1000 device. Intels new MID design looks awesome and totally apple stylish> check it out. http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/10/20/intel_shows_off_working_moorestown_mid_device.html
I think that Apple will be able to pull this mobile OS off with the introduction of Snow Leopard and Intels new Moorestown processor.

Apple will come out with a stripped down version of OSX for a netbook/tablet allowing users to surf the web, EDIT documents, video chat etc. Basically a more advanced version of iPhone 2.0. If they don't do this, and run Snow Leopard on a sub-$1000netbook/tablet, they will loose a lot of macbook consumers to this device. It needs to be a something that gets people into macs, just like the iPhone did, and the Mac Mini before it. These are switcher devices designed to show off how easy macs are. If it NOT a full blown version of OSX Macbook users will stick with their Macbooks. If it IS a full blown version on a smaller device everyone will downgrade to the cheaper model since the Macbook won't be NEEDED for their type of use. This is similar to the new Unibody Macbooks and Macbook Pros. They take away certain features forcing you to choose what type of user you are. Consumer? Professional? Prosumers are forced to go with Macbook Pro if you need the firewire. Just like if a sub-$1000 notebook had all the features of a Macbook, what separates if from its bigger cousin? So, Apple will strip down the OS designed for BASIC BASIC users. Make sense? lol. I never do.

Also similar to how with the Macbook Air is sold on weight, not features. Not as many usb, no firewire, no superdrive, slower processor. If it had all these things AND was so light... who's gonna buy it? People who want the weight and don't need those other things. Just like who's gonna buy a macbook if they can get ALL the same features in a smaller, lighter and maybe even touch screen designed version? Not many people. Sooooo, take away the full osx, and you have a perfectly differentiating machine.

Let me know what you think of my theory!

OH and about MACWORLD: I highly doubt anymore mobile devices will be announced at Macworld, more likely upgraded iMacs, MacPros, all with Display Port, and hopefully a revamped MacMini or AppleTV! (check out my theory posted on that.)

NT1440
Oct 21, 2008, 09:52 PM
Couldn't you use the same argument to say the same about 13 and 15 inches? 15 and 17? 17 and 19?

uh yea i guess technically, but theres a point where it ceases to be "ultra portable" personally i see that after 13 inches as I personally consider regular laptops to be ultra portable.

lakaiordie
Oct 21, 2008, 09:53 PM
I personally dont get how anyone that can carry around a 11" notebook doesnt have the room for a 13".

footprint.

makes all the difference when working on small desks like in a class or on an airplane.

Tosser
Oct 21, 2008, 09:56 PM
uh yea i guess technically, but theres a point where it ceases to be "ultra portable" personally i see that after 13 inches as I personally consider regular laptops to be ultra portable.

Oh, I see. I just consider regular laptops to be "portable". I'm typing this n a 15 incher, though, and with my other gear, it's not really ultra anything. However, it's the largest thing I feel like carrying.
To me, I would need to go 11" (with a small bezel) or lower in order for me to consider it ultra portable. In fact, it has to be almost pocketable (in a jacket).

NT1440
Oct 21, 2008, 09:57 PM
footprint.

makes all the difference when working on small desks like in a class or on an airplane.

Well personally ive never had a problem using a 15" on a plane or desk..

thats personally tho.

PVguy
Oct 21, 2008, 10:07 PM
I don't see the market for people needing something between an iPhone and the Macbook Air. Seriously, are there those of you out there that need something like that?

I've been looking real hard at exactly that. And a decade ago, Apple had the Emate. It didn't quite take off, and Steve killed it when he took over. With modern wireless technology it would be a fine netbook. It was too far ahead of its time.

demiphonic
Oct 21, 2008, 10:07 PM
Haha interesting conversation. :D I think now you’ll need to write down the specs for either your Apple Netbook, Apple Tablet. or Mac Pro Mini. ;) (with made up Names of course :p )

The specs should reasonably ‘prove’ why the product won’t cannibalize the closest product in Apple’s existing lineup. ;)

may the games begin :D

mrgreen4242
Oct 21, 2008, 10:25 PM
I agree. I don't see the market for people needing something between an iPhone and the Macbook Air. Seriously, are there those of you out there that need something like that?

Those of us who own/need an iMac/Mac Pro but also want a small, light notebook without spending ANOTHER $1000-2000.

If Apple had a $500 (in the $450 with EDU/GOV discounts) laptop I would seriously look at it. I'd like something in the 9" 1024x600, 2lbs, Intel Atom-based, 8-16GB SSD range.

Basically a Dell Inspiron Mini 9 with OSX. I'd actually be happier with a modified OSX that was a hybrid of 10.5/6 and the iPhone OS. Run apps in full screen (since the display is so small), use a Springboard like launcher, integrated digital app store, but compatible with standard OSX applications (where it meets the basic requirements).

iPhone/iPod touch as a docakble touchpad for bonus points.

sflocal
Oct 21, 2008, 10:37 PM
Jobs fails to license OS (Biggest blunder in computer history)

And crank out 10" Air

Think Different?

Let's all pity this individual who seems to have a strangely high standard of what "success" should be.

When you have $25b in the bank, then maybe someone will hear you from your parent's basement.

latchthekid
Oct 21, 2008, 10:41 PM
Those of us who own/need an iMac/Mac Pro but also want a small, light notebook without spending ANOTHER $1000-2000.

If Apple had a $500 (in the $450 with EDU/GOV discounts) laptop I would seriously look at it. I'd like something in the 9" 1024x600, 2lbs, Intel Atom-based, 8-16GB SSD range.

Basically a Dell Inspiron Mini 9 with OSX. I'd actually be happier with a modified OSX that was a hybrid of 10.5/6 and the iPhone OS. Run apps in full screen (since the display is so small), use a Springboard like launcher, integrated digital app store, but compatible with standard OSX applications (where it meets the basic requirements).

iPhone/iPod touch as a docakble touchpad for bonus points.

eww at the Dell Inspiron Mini :o Apple would turn that thing into a piece of art. It would be pretty nice, but again read my resent post in this thread ^

iMacmatician
Oct 21, 2008, 10:55 PM
Seems like Jobs is reluctant to jump in the ring because (1) he already missed the boat, or more likely (2) it will likely mean less MacBooks and MBPs sold. Too bad because I would love OS X on this.The third possibility is that Apple's making their own netbook.

Maybe Apple is separating the notebooks into two lines of two models.

Thin and light: MacBook "nano," MacBook Air
Regular: MacBook, MacBook Pro

The key phrases for Apple are: "profit margins" and "does not cannibalize existing higher-margin products." A netbook will have low-margins and will cannibalize MacBook/MBA sales. At the same time, if it's a fully-functioning Mac OS X system, then people will hold on to it at the more typical 4+ years PC cycle.

I say the netbook, as it stands now, is between a rock and a hard place...for a high-margin computer maker like Apple. But, as others have noted, Apple could find a way to 're-invent" the market to their liking.I doubt that an enhanced iPhone OS device (that AppleInsider claimed over a year ago) will cannibalize any Macs. However, such a device won't cannibalize the iPod touch either, due to price and size. It's about right in the middle.

Let me know what you think of my theory!I totally agree. Add to that the overhead of regular Mac OS X versus the overhead of iPhone OS, and iPhone OS is even more compelling for a small and cheap device.

MowingDevil
Oct 21, 2008, 10:59 PM
What doesn't add up to me is Jobs keeps bringing up its a nascent market. Apple's always been one of the first to dive into the pool going back to the first commercial personal computers, GUI and the portable MP3 players.

They'll either come out w/ one at MacWorld and are just trying to keep it off the radar or else they're afraid it will cut into MacBook sales and are avoiding it.

valiar
Oct 21, 2008, 11:33 PM
Netbooks sound good when you talk or think about them.
I have actually used one... Well, not any of the Eee-PC clones, but I have gone through two Fujitsu P-Series laptops.
These little machines are as good as it gets in the "netbook" size regime. And they are not cheap. Yet their usability sucks. Keyboards are cramped, screens are cramped, they are slow. Hardly usable for any work, except, maybe, checking email.
Guess what - the iPhone and the Touch can do that. Quite possibly, they are even better at email. And they fit in your pocket...
I am selling my Fuji P1610 on Craigslist right now specifically to buy the 32GB Touch.
Steve Jobs is right on this one, folks...

Urenstaat
Oct 21, 2008, 11:49 PM
Does the Air not qualify because it's too expensive or the screen is "too big"? As per weight and other specs, it beats the competition, no?


No, no, no. The Air is not a netbook, not even the 12-inch Powerbook was. The Air is just a laptop, but thinner. A netbook has a screen between 7 and 11 inches. It's just very small and typically weighs about a kilo.. Most netbooks have far better specs than the Air. 3 USB ports & ethernet, 160GB 2,5-inch harddrive is not uncommon.. MSI Wind is a nice example.. and just around 500 dollars. Forget Apple, buy a Asus or MSI Wind. You'll save a bundle, have a better computer and you don't have to wait until Steve Jobs magically unveils it in 2009, 2010 or God knows when..

Has anybody paired the Touch with an external keyboard? Without a real keyboard there is no comparison between the Touch and a netbook.. by the way, ever tried to hook up your camera to the Touch and tried to post the photo's on your blog? No? I wouldn't think so.. The Touch is very limited.. It doesn't even have a webcam, most netbooks do..

Phrasikleia
Oct 21, 2008, 11:53 PM
All Apple needs to do to fill that netbook lacuna in their lineup is put bluetooth in the iPod touch and encourage a third party to develop a keyboard driver for it. Something along these lines:

http://content.etilize.com/Large/1010052785.jpg

A modular system like this, with a foldable, portable keyboard, means you can have something that fits in your pocket most of the time. When you need to do some real typing, you throw the keyboard in your bag too.

hulugu
Oct 21, 2008, 11:57 PM
No, no, no. The Air is not a netbook, not even the 12-inch Powerbook was. The Air is just a laptop, but thinner. A netbook has a screen between 7 and 11 inches. It's just very small and typically weighs about a kilo.. Most netbooks have far better specs than the Air. 3 USB ports & ethernet, 160GB 2,5-inch harddrive is not uncommon.. MSI Wind is a nice example.. and just around 500 dollars. Forget Apple, buy a Asus or MSI Wind. You'll save a bundle, have a better computer and you don't have to wait until Steve Jobs magically unveils it in 2009, 2010 or God knows when..

Of course, if you're brave you can hack OSX onto the ASUS Eee. I'm seriously thinking about doing that as a project, just because there have been a few occasions where a small, and expendable laptop, would have been useful.

NT1440
Oct 21, 2008, 11:59 PM
I get the vibe that for some reason alot of people think apple is in the wrong for not going with a netbook.

It doesnt effect them negatively, it doesnt effect us negatively. So be it.

dAlen
Oct 22, 2008, 12:11 AM
I took that as meaning a full computer, with monitor, keyboard and mouse. If you add a 20" Cinema Display alone, you're talking at least $1198. That's more than double the $500 price point.

Just my 2 cents.

I see your point -

However, Steve has made the point to call the mini a computer by itself...you bring the rest.

What I mean is that the mini was geared to people who have a monitor and a mouse already...windows users who want a mac but dont want to spend much money.

anyway, when he said this I took it hes not updating the mini everyone so much wants an update to...as well as the fact he had a slip, as he is calling his own computer crap. (thought it was funny) :)

Peace

dAlen

PodPacker
Oct 22, 2008, 12:12 AM
Apple is not like Microsoft. They spend on R&D and they are aware of trends. Anyone remember Gates' take on the Internet? "It's a passing fad."

Look at the Apple TV. There world isn't quite ready for a device like it, but it is out there making the rounds. Before you go "crying" about how Internet TV is here already and Apple is not doing anything about it, look at how effed up the ISPs are and how many are throttling back user speed and putting quotas on "reasonable usage." So while the world is ready, the SOBs controlling the gates are looking to milk us for more and more, so if we were o fully use a device like that we would be paying dearly for it.

Also, if this elongated iPhone-looking thing exists, (http://www.betanews.com/article/Intels_PADDlike_prototype_shows_goals_for_Moorestown/1224608949) you know Apple has something like it that runs OS X and will outclass it. So while we may not see an Apple-branded 'net device soon, we will certainly see one if there is a demand for it. Right now the iPhone almost does everything a netbook does.

NewSc2
Oct 22, 2008, 12:40 AM
When I used Mac's in elementary school (OS 7 & 8), the user experience was much better than the Windows 98 Machines. There's no telling how many times, for example, you'd go to save your work, and it would crash on you. Then the teacher made us stay in for recess if we hadn't finished our projects. Needless to say, everyone bum-rushed the Mac's so they could actually go to recess. Since then, I really just have hated PC's. However, now in high school, they've got some of those IBM T-whatevers with just the point nub. And what do you know... everyone hates those too. If Apple were to put out crap for $500, it would turn away potential buyers. Provided a quality product entered the school for that price though, it would probably be beneficial. And hey, these uni-body designs are like tanks (if you take away the glass). (Not to start yet another glossy v matte)

Honestly, most of the PCs I used throughout high school and college rarely crashed. OSX is nicer now (than when I was younger) but most computer labs are mainly for word processing, CAD, basic internet browsing, and Excel. Heck, even Office on OSX is a bit laggy.

IMO OSX shines in the iLife, iTunes, iPod integration type stuff, not things you'd usually do at school. Not saying Apple shouldn't target educational institutions, but the playing field is a bit more level there.

NT1440
Oct 22, 2008, 12:46 AM
To be fair Office being crappy on macs is M$ fault.

cult hero
Oct 22, 2008, 01:36 AM
Apple is a hardware company 1st, and a software company 2nd. Why don't people get this?

I see this repeated over and over and over again... and it's wrong. Apple is a platform company. OS X not being licensed for other hardware has nothing to do with "being a hardware company" but rather the fact that the coupling of the hardware and software are essential to maintaining a single platform. (And, Steven Jobs is a control freak, for better or for worse.)

Vanilla
Oct 22, 2008, 02:03 AM
If anyone wants to read a really good reason why licensing the Macintosh OS in the 80s would have been a terrible idea, look no further than John Gruber's 2004 blog entry:
http://daringfireball.net/2004/08/parlay

ibjoshua

Thats a really excellent article, thanks for sharing.
Vanilla

sflocal
Oct 22, 2008, 02:18 AM
I would love to see Apple make an app store for Mac OS X. I think there would be quite a boom in Mac programming.
There already is an OSX app store. It's called the "Internet". Perhaps you may have heard of it??? ;)

inkswamp
Oct 22, 2008, 02:44 AM
1) Steve said they cant make a computer for $500 or it would be junk. ...so, no more mac mini? And does this mean he thinks the mac mini is junk?

That's such a BS attitude. Why doesn't Apple just roll their previous models down into lower price slots? Or what, do those older models just become junk the minute the new models are released? There are a lot of people out there who buy PCs just to do a little email and Web surfing and they're not looking to spend over $1000, not even close. Why wouldn't Apple want to offer something to that buyer? Not everyone needs the latest and greatest. The iMacs that were out last year should have been pushed down into the sub $1000 range. Same for the MacBooks. I don't know what that would hurt and there's no way to make the argument that those machines would be "junk."

rolandf
Oct 22, 2008, 03:38 AM
Given the evolution of the notebook line-up, I have to say that Apple started to make moves which can't be understood other than pleasing the PC crowed.

Lining up all their computers since the Intel switch, one witnesses a degree of dilettantism only seen from usual PC makers.

Whereas in the pre-Intel time every Mac was not only an evolution but a revolution that was clearly ahead, design and other wise from any PC,

Apple by now just spoils the exterior of their previous great design.

This tendency is reflected in the naming PowerBook--->MacBook
the omission of the Apple symbol (do switchers get their fingers hurt by hitting that key), not providing a really stunning display, remember they used to introduce the 10:16 aspect ratio, thick bezel, wedge shaped enclosing like a Sony, etc.

The only product where I walked into the store in recent times and said wow, is and was, the iPhone. But again, that runs not on Intel, which seems to kill creativity, and second it was not an evolution but a revolution.

Same for the OS. When I saw back in the nineties the Next cube presented at the University, that was amazing, but out of the range a student could afford. Again the OS was a revolution. By now, since Tiger, OS X is only evolutionary, with tweaks and and UI that deteriorated. Just let me remember you of the inconsistency throughout apps.

So, Apple is excellent if they do something from scratch, bundling all their best people, but lame, if their B-team spoils what they once achieved.

My idea would be, that hopefully they manage to provide again in addition to mainstream Intel processors a custom processor.

To ease the work for programmers, they just would have to send their high-level code to Apple who would compile it and distribute it over the AppStore.

To remain with Universal code, is an enormous advantage.

Finally, if Steven Jobs says that Apple has some of the best and most loyal customers, I would agree.

But then Apple has to be again more sensible to those by rewarding them not only by evolutionary products, but by revolutionary ones, and giving them reasonable choices.

The Awesome
Oct 22, 2008, 04:07 AM
Jobs' statement about the interesting features WHEN netbooks increase relevance reminds me of the Ford Kuga (I don't know if there's a Kuga there in the States). Ford was the latest in the party to come up with a soft-roader for the European market but critics have given it large praise because of its unheard-of-before Focus-like on-road handling. Sure, there's the Land Rover Freelander but it focused more on off-road handling, something which most owners of soft-roaders don't need. Ford (Europe) gave relevance and purpose to glorified, jacked-up wagons. (sorry, a bit off-topic there)

If Apple is releasing a netbook, I expect the best and not some cookie-cutter Atom-powered afterthought with horrible bevels around the display *coughs at LaVie and Epson*.

The Awesome
Oct 22, 2008, 04:14 AM
There already is an OSX app store. It's called the "Internet". Perhaps you may have heard of it??? ;)

Yeah, and there's the downloads section in apple.com. Though maybe he's looking for something that is a bit more intuitive and user-friendly (or someplace with an App Store-like approval process).

I for one, would like to see a stricter adherence to Apple's Human Interface guidelines regarding the apps in the downloads section. I'm just tired of seeing good programs with ******** interfaces done by squares who have never heard of aesthetics. These OSX programmers shame Apple's quest for unparalleled elegance.

Abstract
Oct 22, 2008, 04:59 AM
I agree. I don't see the market for people needing something between an iPhone and the Macbook Air. Seriously, are there those of you out there that need something like that?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/pc/565108/ref=pd_ts_zbw_pc_565108_more?&pf_rd_p=364099001&pf_rd_s=gp-right-4&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_i=541966&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1NJW95S07VG38RTFBD6V

Look at the top 25 computers being sold by Amazon....


agreed...apple has made it clear nobody likes small keyboard and tiny screens and poor performance in a COMPUTER.


Wow, so Apple told me that I'm not supposed to want a small computer, and yet I do. Interesting. It feels good to have my own brain.


Every single time Steve has said that, a year later we have that product.

example?

Well a phone for one....

I personally dont get how anyone that can carry around a 11" notebook doesnt have the room for a 13".

That's because you probably haven't even looked. ;) For those who have, they can easily see how much more portable an 11" system can be. I don't even need a laptop bag or backpack to carry a netbook. I could carry it easily in my man-bag/murse, or in the main compartment of my DSLR backpack. Sure, it has a laptop compartment as well, but it's really tight, and it makes other compartments a tad bit smaller.

I would love to see Apple make an app store for Mac OS X. I think there would be quite a boom in Mac programming.
There already is an OSX app store. It's called the "Internet". Perhaps you may have heard of it??? ;)

www.macupdate.com
www.versiontracker.com

christian_k
Oct 22, 2008, 05:09 AM
I would love to see Apple make an app store for Mac OS X. I think there would be quite a boom in Mac programming. If they're getting serious about games on the Touch... maybe they can finally get serious about having the major PC game developers developing for the Mac? Boot Camp would become truly useless if Valve began making their games native on the Mac.

I work as a coder in a small games developer. Since our technology is cross platform, bringing our products to the Mac is easy but in the current situation it is very hard to market such a product esp. if you are not in the USA.

The App store allows to sell a product world wide easily - even for a small developer and you don't need a publisher (that takes away an enormous part of the revenue) at all. All I can tell you is, you are right. We are WAITING for a Mac App store.

Christian

tiiim
Oct 22, 2008, 05:28 AM
remember Apple are not stupid.. There is a surge of netbooks at present but if Apple did enter it they cant just make a "copy" they will have to create something that people will want and dont mind paying a higher premium for.

I might be wrong... but normally Apple doesnt like compromising performance and software. I cant see them making a "lite" OS X for a notebook.. Even Iphone OS X is fully fledged OS. Its the same with the macbook air, a very portable notebook which doesnt compromise the performance. Sure the "netbook" wont be in the same league as a pro book but the underline OS will be the same or very similar.

Also as someone mentioned before that Apple are keeping the white macbook on sale. They realise they need a lower end macbook so either they are waiting for manafacturing costs to come down and replace it with the new macbooks or they have something else up their sleeve and the white macbook is just a "placeholder"?

princigalli
Oct 22, 2008, 05:58 AM
Someone should simply ask jobs "what happened?" Why no innovation at all? So bad that you had to concentrate your marketing efforts on the new case design? Has Apple reached the peak of their innovation advantage?

aswitcher
Oct 22, 2008, 06:15 AM
Every single time Steve has said that, a year later we have that product.

Thats my thinking

rhpenguin
Oct 22, 2008, 06:31 AM
Fine then, if Apple doesn't want my money I'll replace my aging EEE with an MSI Wind and install OS X on that.

jodelli
Oct 22, 2008, 06:33 AM
- Q: Tablet and touchscreens? When you look at tablet computing, does that get to be a more attractive opportunity? A: I think we have such creative people that are looking at a lot of things, but can't talk about products we're working on.

Sounds like they're going to do it.

- Q: Cheaper Macs? A: We chose not to server a certain customer base. We don't know how to make a $500 computer that's not a piece of junk. Our DNA will not allow us to ship that. We can continue to deliver value to customers we do choose to serve.

I can make a $500 computer that's not a 'piece of junk'. He's obviously talking about design elegance as opposed to function.

JMHO.

MacBram
Oct 22, 2008, 06:36 AM
...Jobs made it clear that Apple chooses not to target the low-cost notebook market and believes it is a nascent category that will evolve.

Most interesting, however, was that Jobs hinted that if the category does evolve, Apple has "some pretty interesting ideas" about it. Jobs makes it clear that Apple is not going to be competing in this market at this time.

I guess coverage from different sources paraphrased it a little differently. Admittedly, I haven't listened to the live recording yet, but from reading some of the posted coverage I got the impression that:

The "interesting ideas" related to the iPhone platform for when it took off, rather than the "'nascent category' of netbooks that have yet to evolve and as yet hold no interest at all for Apple".

Either way, I bet Apple has some pretty interesting ideas for both categories: both for the nascent category for some point in the future when they deem it ready for the Apple touch, and for its own iPhone platform in the near future that is even now taking off as we speak.

So I prefer to think they have some really interesting ideas for the iPhone and Touch platform soon to be revealed...

Shagrat
Oct 22, 2008, 06:44 AM
Laptop LCDs are, at most, 6-bits color per pixel and you need at least 8-bits per pixel to get accurate and decent color representation. Fancy hardware-level dithering will not cut it here for any photographer that would care about matte vs. glossy screens.

Do not color-correct photos on your laptop's built-in LCD. Anything else but not that. :)

Is this still true with the new MB(P)s?

I know that the screen on the previous MBPs had a much better viewing angle than the MBs (such as my 1st gen white MB), obviously a different LCD technology. I tried to find info on what the actual LCD panel specs are on the new Ali MB(P)s such as LCD type/bit depth, but no luck so far.

Anybody able to point me in the direction where I can find this info?

jodelli
Oct 22, 2008, 06:51 AM
I'm with you brother.

Apple is a hardware company 1st, and a software company 2nd. Why don't people get this?

They did not make a blunder, you don't make $25 billion by mistake. I would be willing to bet he really knows what he is doing.

The software is the only reason I'm still a Mac user at this point, having been one since back sometime in the nineties.

Pablo
Oct 22, 2008, 07:29 AM
I have serious doubts that this is anything more than idea at this point. That's not to say it can't (or won't) get fast tracked. But bear in mind that this statement was made during a conference call targeted towards investors. With AAPL stock prices in mind, what's he going to say? This is a non-answer with lots of ambiguity and a touch of hope. Which is exactly what a good CEO would do.

But I'd really like to see Apple put something like this out. I just received my MSI Wind yesterday and already have OS X running just fine on it. Before I bought it, I went by the local apple store to look at the Macbook Airs (again) and the new Macbooks. I would have readily paid twice or even more fore a "true" product out of Cupertino, but for me it didn't come down to a matter of price nearly as much as the physical size. Sure there are a few tradeoffs at the moment, but hopefully they will be addressed shortly and even with the blemishes, the size was enough to sway my decision away from Apple.

ImageWrangler
Oct 22, 2008, 07:49 AM
I think ill gag if another mobile device comes out before they address the missing mid tower ... please make something soon

Commence gagging.

jodelli
Oct 22, 2008, 07:54 AM
If anyone wants to read a really good reason why licensing the Macintosh OS in the 80s would have been a terrible idea, look no further than John Gruber's 2004 blog entry:
http://daringfireball.net/2004/08/parlay

ibjoshua

Concur with that. Digital Research had a GUI initially developed by Lee Jay Lorenzen who had come over from Xerox PARC. Versions were made that ran on MS DOS, but ultimately had little success. Another proprietary version ran on the Atari 16/32 Motorola 68000, but this 'color Mac' machine, as good as it was, still didn't make it past the early 90s.

sterlingindigo
Oct 22, 2008, 08:13 AM
Ok, so maybe not low-cost net books, but how about smaller more feature rich notebooks? Toshiba's been putting out feature rich 9" mini laptops for quite some time now, so has Sony. Perhaps they are not the quality or style as what Apple could do, but I wouldn't say it's a nascent category. Air is not small, it's just really thin. I know Apple can deliver on a small 9" or 10" feature rich mini laptop like only Apple can do and I believe him when he says they have some pretty good ideas.

kas23
Oct 22, 2008, 08:17 AM
Fine then, if Apple doesn't want my money I'll replace my aging EEE with an MSI Wind and install OS X on that.

This is what will likely be relieving me of some extra cash:

http://gadgets.boingboing.net/2008/10/03/asus-eee-pc-s101-is.html

bokdol
Oct 22, 2008, 08:18 AM
http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/pc/565108/ref=pd_ts_zbw_pc_565108_more?&pf_rd_p=364099001&pf_rd_s=gp-right-4&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_i=541966&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1NJW95S07VG38RTFBD6V

Look at the top 25 computers being sold by Amazon....

Wow, so Apple told me that I'm not supposed to want a small computer, and yet I do. Interesting. It feels good to have my own brain.

thats awesome... but what does it say when the only full size laptops in the top 20 being sold are apple ones.

yes netbooks are gaining popularity but so are apple laptops. while i think it would be cool for a smaller form factor machine at some point. apple probably does not see the need with the release of their new machines. at this point in time. but i bet they have something in the works as we speak.

Stately
Oct 22, 2008, 08:22 AM
I think you are wrong about a divice between an iPhone and an AIR. But that device won't be a NetBook but rather a tablet about the size of a Newton or a little larger. The device would still run mobile OS and hopefully network as well.

Dave

Yes. It needs to run a full OS though. :cool:

lftrghtparadigm
Oct 22, 2008, 08:27 AM
I agree. I don't see the market for people needing something between an iPhone and the Macbook Air. Seriously, are there those of you out there that need something like that?

The only answer is positively no. Anyone who answers otherwise is blowing smoke, or simply cares more about having a new and different gadget than realistic market production.

In fact, I'd bet most around here would rather Apple release a product like this and have it TANK, than not at all. Just for the sake of being the nerd who got one.

lftrghtparadigm
Oct 22, 2008, 08:42 AM
That's such a BS attitude. Why doesn't Apple just roll their previous models down into lower price slots? Or what, do those older models just become junk the minute the new models are released? There are a lot of people out there who buy PCs just to do a little email and Web surfing and they're not looking to spend over $1000, not even close. Why wouldn't Apple want to offer something to that buyer? Not everyone needs the latest and greatest. The iMacs that were out last year should have been pushed down into the sub $1000 range. Same for the MacBooks. I don't know what that would hurt and there's no way to make the argument that those machines would be "junk."



Apple stays ahead of the game by rolling out new tech that makes previous models "obsolete". They are THE king of this practice.

Only now is it becoming more and more difficult for them to do this as the models that get replaced are certainly not "obsolete" or "junk" by any standard. How could they be? They were "state-of-the-art" 6 MONTHS AGO! Keeping the old white macbook and the 17" mbp IS an example of what you're asking for, and its a new move for Apple. For the last few years through the move to Intel, the older models went to the refurbished category and were sold that way under the same concept, (buy slightly older for slightly less).

This has always been popular with those in the know for consumer buying.

But today, with rapid onset of faster and more powerful computing technology, its becoming more and more difficult to convince someone to buy the "latest and greatest," as it is only slightly "greater" than the model it replaces (which is dangerous when the product undergoes a major change away from a well adapted and accepted form.
ie: White Plastic Macbook = powerful and familiar
Standard shape aluminum MacBookPro = Very familiar, very powerful

New MacBooks = sexy, unfamiliar, more powerful?
New MBPs = sexy, unfamiliar, more powerful?

By keeping the 2 older products in the line, they will manage to not scare off the old folks who have waited until now to pick up the $1100 mac laptop they've been saving for. Its the same one that 2 of their children use and the same one they bought for their grandchild who just started college. And, oh my, its now only $999 with greater looking spec numbers than they remember seeing.

They also won't scare off the photographer who is just now finishing out the 2008 wedding season and has been counting the days til he/she can pick up a new MacBookPro to edit through the winter on. If that person, who has been too busy to keep up, shows up at the Apple store and doesn't see a laptop that looks like the powerbook or 1st gen mbp they have in their bag, they might turn right around and walk out.

marcg007
Oct 22, 2008, 08:52 AM
I agree. I don't see the market for people needing something between an iPhone and the Macbook Air. Seriously, are there those of you out there that need something like that?

As someone with serious back problems and many heavy books to take to school every day, I need something small and light. The MBA covers the light part but the footprint is just too big to fit in my bag with my school books. I need something with the footprint of my 12 inch Powerbook or smaller in the weight class of the MBA. Also, the MBA needs to support more than 2GBs of RAM. As far as the iPod touch or iPhone goes, give me the ability to use my bluetooth keyboard and mouse, and it might work for at least some of my needs for a while but I really need a slightly bigger screen to avoid making my eye sight any worse.

I WAS the one
Oct 22, 2008, 09:13 AM
Thanx God I Bought An Ubuntu Netbook G Meso From Sylvania At 3 Hundred! Brand New And Its Ubuntu The Most Mac-alike Os Aout There That Feels Good Using It!

tssfulk
Oct 22, 2008, 09:29 AM
I have a nice LCD (hooked up to my ancient iBook). I want an iMac not a mini. Why? Dual screens are awesome for people with lots of windows/documents open.

Nor can a cheaper iMac... There is a significant group of users who already have their LCD's and want a desktop computer to go with it that doesn't start at > $2K

Abstract
Oct 22, 2008, 09:37 AM
thats awesome... but what does it say when the only full size laptops in the top 20 being sold are apple ones.


It's not really fair to give Apple credit for this though. Apple has around 6 notebook models to sell right now, or 7 if you include the white plastic MacBook.


Sony, Lenovo, HP, etc, have dozens of different laptop types, each with 2 or 3 variants. Chances are, one particular model won't outsell a MacBook, but then again, they have so many models that they're not too fussed.


Apple isn't THAT good. ;) The results just looked heavily weighted to Apple because they don't sell many models.

Spades
Oct 22, 2008, 09:47 AM
The MacBook Air (which is definitely not a netbook) is very portable but at the same time has a big screen and big keyboard.

It's more portable than a MacBook, but anything that still needs its own bag doesn't cut it. That's what's so great about my Eee. I can toss it into my electronics bag with all the cables and other small devices I carry. Something with the footprint of a 13" notebook wouldn't even fit in that bag, let alone leave room for everything else I carry.

A problem with many ultraportables is that while they are thin and light, they compromise on keyboard, screen size, and power.

"Compromising" on screen size is unavoidable with an ultraportable device. Apple just needs to get over that. OK, maybe they're working on making OS X work on a 10" screen without any usability compromises, but it would be usable as is anyways.

The power of netbooks is increasingly rapidly. Soon there will be no "compromising", at least compared to the Air as it is now. The MSI Wind uses a 1.6 GHz Atom processor. The Air uses a 1.6 GHz Core 2 Duo. As soon as netbooks use dual-core Atom processors, they will be pretty close to what the Air has now. (Still not there, what with the slower bus. But close.) Even if it is slower, I haven't seen any complaints about performance from people using the Wind as a hackintosh.

Im actually not sure what apple could offer besides looks that would make it any different from another netbook. If it was too different it wouldnt be a netbook now would it?

OS X of course.

Kwill
Oct 22, 2008, 09:48 AM
Jobs also suggested that the iPhone was an Apple answer to Netbooks. With productivity apps such as Mocha VNC (http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=284981670&mt=8) and Briefcase (http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=292598548&mt=8) (both offer free "lite" versions) and reference apps like Color Expert (http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=292243338&mt=8) that rival Pantone ColorMunki software, I agree iPhone is becoming more about portable personal computing.

rtdunham
Oct 22, 2008, 10:01 AM
Look at the top 25 computers being sold by Amazon....

That is compelling statistical evidence that the market Steve's waiting for is here, now. I hadn't realized...

I know Amazon's sales aren't necessarily representative of the universe of sales, but you know it's significant. Only one of the non-Apple computers on that top 25 sales list costs more than $700. the average appears to be about $450. And there are more of those units selling at Amazon than apple's laptops. That means the netbook market's already bigger than the apple laptop market. Not nascent: now.

If apple entered the arena, it would get only its share of those sales. But suppose it achieved the same market share in netbooks that it has in U.S. laptop sales--what is it most recently, 20+ percent?--then that apple netbook would absolutely be a reasonable product and a profit center. Almost certainly whatever netbook models apple released would earn sales sufficient to get them on that top 25 list.

Issues of concern: Would an apple netbook take market share from the existing laptops? Or would those sales come from people not buying macs now, because of the prices? Would many owners of 15 and 17 inch apple laptops add a netbook to their hardware, for convenience (imagine if apple introduced innovative, effective docking-and-syncing technologies)? Would the entry level machine lure more switchers into the apple world, leading to incremental sales gains for all apple products?

pmpknetr21
Oct 22, 2008, 10:04 AM
anyway, when he said this I took it hes not updating the mini everyone so much wants an update to...as well as the fact he had a slip, as he is calling his own computer crap. (thought it was funny) :)

Peace

dAlen

That was strange, wasn't it... :(

On a related note, I don't see what's wrong with the mini; or maybe what others see as being wrong with the mini. I get that it's limited in what it can do, but I thought that was the point? A Mac for people who can't afford or choose not to spend $1299 or more on an iMac? My mom has a mini and LOVES it. Got a couple nephews that have one and love it. It's great as a cost-saving family machine... It does exactly what it's supposed to do... At least that's how I see it.

Am I off the mark?

rtdunham
Oct 22, 2008, 10:15 AM
I think you are wrong about a divice between an iPhone and an AIR. But that device won't be a NetBook but rather a tablet about the size of a Newton or a little larger. The device would still run mobile OS and hopefully network as well.

Yes. It needs to run a full OS though.

If it's not gonna have its own (real, not virtual) keyboard then it's gotta either work with the little apple bluetooth keyboard, a new specially made (smaller or foldable) kbd, or have a USB port for hooking up a kbd. Imho, that's essential to bridge the tablet/netbook markets.

flottenheimer
Oct 22, 2008, 10:15 AM
I'd buy a small, fun, inexpensive* portable MiniMac instantly if it was released. Being able to give one to each of the kids would be very nice too. So maybe 3 for me :-)

*not going to happen.

sterlingindigo
Oct 22, 2008, 10:18 AM
Jobs also suggested that the iPhone was an Apple answer to Netbooks. With productivity apps such as Mocha VNC (http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=284981670&mt=8) and Briefcase (http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=292598548&mt=8) (both offer free "lite" versions) and reference apps like Color Expert (http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=292243338&mt=8) that rival Pantone ColorMunki software, I agree iPhone is becoming more about portable personal computing.

As a netbook replacement it is a very good point. Aside from cut n paste, and maybe flash, it's a very nice piece of technology which also happens to include a camera phone and mp3 player in a very small touch-screen package.

Of course it's not a small word processor or able to run Adobe products in the field.

Spades
Oct 22, 2008, 10:27 AM
(imagine if apple introduced innovative, effective docking-and-syncing technologies)?

That is, if anything, what I think they're waiting for. One role for a netbook is a secondary computer. That means it does not carry all of your data. I used a PowerBook as secondary computer and found it too cumbersome to transfer things back to my main computer. I had already transferred pictures from my camera to the PowerBook, modified them, created albums and published galleries. When I got back home and went to move everything to iPhoto on my main computer I found there was no easy way to do it. I would have had to redo all of the work I had already done on the road.

It would also be nice to be able to sync a part of your iTunes library to the notebook. This isn't a huge deal since we have iPods, but if for some reason I want music on my notebook, I don't want it all. 60 gigs on a 1.5 TB drive is a drop in the bucket. 60 gigs on a 120 gig netbook? Way too much.

Syncing is the piece that would make an Apple netbook really stand out.

kingtj
Oct 22, 2008, 10:36 AM
The ASUS eeePC is a neat little "toy computer". (I bought one, so I should know something about it.) But realistically, it's something people are generally more impressed with BEFORE they own it a little while.

For starters, the small keyboards on them are difficult to type on without making lots of mistakes, (and I don't even have big hands or fingers). Some keys are even in really awkward places, like the right-hand SHIFT key in the far right-hand corner of the thing. To top it off, they don't have very good key-feel either, and I've already seen reports of some keys getting really "mushy" compared to the rest of them. (Apparently, a rubber spacer under the key-cap gets worn and tears.)

Battery life is another big issue with them. Suspend mode is practically unusable on my eeePC 701 model because even with the latest (of about 5 or 6) BIOS updates, it still rapidly drains the battery while suspended. ASUS says "We recommend just powering it off instead of suspending it.", as a "solution". Nice, huh?

Their Xandros customized Linux OS they offer for them is pretty nicely put together, to their credit, but it has some issues too. A Chinese "hack" of the original ASUS restore DVD called the "XEPC" OS is by FAR superior, as the author has gone to a lot of trouble to update and enhance what ASUS originally included. Problem is, it defaults to Mandarin Chinese so you have to jump through a few hoops after installing it to get it back to an English display, if you're like me and can't read Chinese!

You really do "get what you pay for", and compared to an Apple notebook product, the eeePC line is quite frankly "junk", just as Jobs said of "under $500 computers".


I'd rather they didnt water down the product to suit to someone that has asus price and wants apple quality. "you get what you pay for?"

knightlie
Oct 22, 2008, 11:12 AM
I agree. I don't see the market for people needing something between an iPhone and the Macbook Air. Seriously, are there those of you out there that need something like that?

Yes. Not need, perhaps, but want, and can make use of. I have an Asus which is more convenient for couch-based web browsing than my MacBook, which currently serves as a bedroom computer. The only limitation of the Asus is Linux, which is a pain in the arse.

I don't consider the Air for this kind of purpose at all, it's way too expensive to buy just for browsing in front of the TV.

heisetax
Oct 22, 2008, 11:27 AM
I'd rather they didnt water down the product to suit to someone that has asus price and wants apple quality. "you get what you pay for?"

But another post on a Mac site has said that Asus is one of the manufacturers of Apple mother boards. Does this mean that the Mac products with Asus motherboards are junk & we should stay away from them or we should in all reality purchase an Asus motherboard & produce a Mac Clone or as they are now called a "Hackintosh?"

.Chris
Oct 22, 2008, 11:30 AM
latly steves been doing a bit of microsoft "we wont do that because its not cool enough"

With this, blu-ray lower clost MBP etc. He may be rich but he needs to know not everyone is. Yes, I can could afford a 2 grand MBP but it would be niice to get it at 1699 at least. I know the MB has the same specs but some actully want a larger screen

dont get me started on blu-ray, does steve actully think everyone has a super fast internet connection to download his movies. Now I have fiber optic internet, but some want the physical media.... people need to know physicalmedia wont go away. go outside and play in traffic.

As for the main topic, its good to hear there might be a chance, but come on, the enco. is such bad shape it makes sence to do one at a low price. may be if apple does it the netbook world will boast..... apple may be the key to making it happen..

heisetax
Oct 22, 2008, 11:35 AM
That is, if anything, what I think they're waiting for. One role for a netbook is a secondary computer. That means it does not carry all of your data. I used a PowerBook as secondary computer and found it too cumbersome to transfer things back to my main computer. I had already transferred pictures from my camera to the PowerBook, modified them, created albums and published galleries. When I got back home and went to move everything to iPhoto on my main computer I found there was no easy way to do it. I would have had to redo all of the work I had already done on the road.

It would also be nice to be able to sync a part of your iTunes library to the notebook. This isn't a huge deal since we have iPods, but if for some reason I want music on my notebook, I don't want it all. 60 gigs on a 1.5 TB drive is a drop in the bucket. 60 gigs on a 120 gig netbook? Way too much.

Syncing is the piece that would make an Apple netbook really stand out.

Are your problems iPhoto & iTUnes restrictions or a lack of comparable ports on your home Mac compared to your away PowerBook? FW800 or Gigabit Ethernet transfers are very fast for me & my son between a PowerBook & G5 or Intel PowerMac.

farmboy
Oct 22, 2008, 11:47 AM
i honestly doubt photographers will be able to use a mac much longer. the glossy mbp 17" is horrible and the new 15" are worse. way to much glare even when calibrated and set to maximum brightness to assess or compare photos.

as a consumer device the new mb and mbp with glass display are astounding, beautiful and a charm to work/play with.

let's see how it goes...

Did you actually calibrate and use the new 15", or are you just spreading FUD?

I guess I'm just a little tired of these photogs and their whining--and it is whining, because the machines they have now did not stop working all of a sudden. A glossy screen is supposed to ruin everything?

Photographers use different temperature lights, lots of different fill and key lights, light filters, lenses, lens filters, reflectors, hoods, camera settings, different film qualities and speeds (for non-digital), post production manipulation software, print production manipulation, lithographic manipulation, different paper stocks, etc. All these adjustments available for your work and you can't handle looking through a piece of glass? The halftone screens used for print work even in glossy magazines (no irony there) appear to be way less than your screen resolution, so how crucial and valid is your on-screen photo examination? And readers only spend a few seconds looking at your work anyhow---sorry but you know it's true. So lighten up.

Spades
Oct 22, 2008, 11:54 AM
Are your problems iPhoto & iTUnes restrictions or a lack of comparable ports on your home Mac compared to your away PowerBook? FW800 or Gigabit Ethernet transfers are very fast for me & my son between a PowerBook & G5 or Intel PowerMac.

The problem is iPhoto has no method of copying the events, albums, and pictures (including both the original and changes) from one computer to another. With iTunes, although it's easy to copy files, you lose metadata and it's not easy to copy playlists.

Bubba Satori
Oct 22, 2008, 12:21 PM
I'd rather they didnt water down the product to suit to someone that has asus price and wants apple quality. "you get what you pay for?"


Let them eat cake. Only the well off should have computers, anyway. No unwashed masses in the smug club. We are a cool and special few who are entitled to thin, precious bling that only we can afford. :rolleyes:

Urenstaat
Oct 22, 2008, 12:41 PM
It won't be cheap. A Sony 11-inch VAIO TT will set you back 2000 dollar (2700 dollar for Blue Ray or SSD model). I'm sure Apple will position theirs against the Vaio rather than against an Asus or other 400 dollar netbook.. Plus, you're lucky if you'll get just one USB port ;)

Phrasikleia
Oct 22, 2008, 12:43 PM
...He may be rich but he needs to know not everyone is. Yes, I can could afford a 2 grand MBP but it would be niice to get it at 1699 at least....does steve actully think everyone has a super fast internet connection to download his movies...it makes sence to do one at a low price.

Steve Jobs was explicit about serving a certain segment of the market: the one that has lots of disposable income.

corinhorn
Oct 22, 2008, 02:10 PM
Steve Jobs was explicit about serving a certain segment of the market: the one that has lots of disposable income.Yes. during the Q4 Q & A, he said that there are consumer segments that they ignore. If you want a computer for $500 or less, Apple isn't targeting to you.

iMacmatician
Oct 22, 2008, 02:32 PM
They'll either come out w/ one at MacWorld and are just trying to keep it off the radar or else they're afraid it will cut into MacBook sales and are avoiding it.That's what I'm thinking too. Apple's said something and done the reverse not long after several times before.

All Apple needs to do to fill that netbook lacuna in their lineup is put bluetooth in the iPod touch and encourage a third party to develop a keyboard driver for it. Something along these lines:

http://content.etilize.com/Large/1010052785.jpg

A modular system like this, with a foldable, portable keyboard, means you can have something that fits in your pocket most of the time. When you need to do some real typing, you throw the keyboard in your bag too.A bigger display would be good. :cool:

I might be wrong... but normally Apple doesnt like compromising performance and software. I cant see them making a "lite" OS X for a notebook.. Even Iphone OS X is fully fledged OS.iPhone OS is the "lite" version of Mac OS X (are you talking about something even lighter?). And I would expect Mac OS X to perform worse, both in specs and in usability, for a small device than iPhone OS. And that's why the MacBook Air emphasizes a "full-size" display and "standard" CPU above most other areas.

Vulpinemac
Oct 22, 2008, 03:01 PM
Except apple did license their OS for about half a year and it was an absolute fiscal disaster for them. You must not be old enough to remember that

Actually, Apple Computer, Inc. licensed four companies to build to their specifications back in the early to middle 90s... roughly 4 to 5 years. All that happened was that Apple's hardware sales went through the floor while the OS penetration into the general market remained stable at just about 4%. It wasn't until Apple revoked all those licenses in '98 and released the first iMac (itself a stylized throwback to the original AiO Macs) that sales started to grow and they started to eat into the Windows market share.

Vulpinemac
Oct 22, 2008, 03:13 PM
Wouldn't Apple be able to sell more computers by offering a mid-tower design for about $1200? *snip* I would love to see a Mac mid-tower that looks a lot like Dell's Inspiron. The fact that most PC desktops are mid-towers and Apple doesn't make one STILL kinda surprises me, especially when they have such a jones for the MacBook Air (twice the price, half the guts!).

By mid-tower are you talking about a machine 15" tall and has to sit on a separate shelf or cupboard in order to leave desktop space open for other purposes? To me that's a full tower, not a mid-.

However, maybe some enlarged version of the Mac Mini would serve... say, 6 to 8 inches tall, about the same deep and about 6 inches wide... similar, perhaps, to the Shuttle and some other compact PCs I've seen and built. Give it all the power of the iMac while making it possible to upgrade video (as can be done in the Pro,) double or even quadruple the amount of on-board RAM, etc. Now that would be nice.

Sulley Muntari
Oct 22, 2008, 03:33 PM
Netbooks are toys for little children to play with.

azshopper
Oct 22, 2008, 04:21 PM
I agree. I don't see the market for people needing something between an iPhone and the Macbook Air. Seriously, are there those of you out there that need something like that?

I think it isn't a market in north America where you can haul your 13"/15" in your car. But those netbooks are very popular in Asia where most people don't drive and they have to carry the laptop + power supply waiting in the bus stop. Japan is a very good example, subnotebook is very popular over there for leisure and business usage. Macbook Air is considered to be heavy over there.

Vulpinemac
Oct 22, 2008, 05:14 PM
What's the draw to a Netbook? Low cost? Tiny size? Sheesh! They still have clamshell opening and take up too much space when open. PDAs? iPhone? iPod Touch? Too small!

I want something about the size of a trade paperback that is nothing but display unit. If you have to have a cover over it, let it be something that can fold back completely out of the way so you can hold it with one hand and operate it with the other; and yet be big enough to comfortably read a page of standard-sized text for reading e-books and other documents while still having reasonable web browsing and other functional capabilities.

Do I want a tablet? Yes. But so far nobody, not even Amazon, has come up with anything I even remotely like. And honestly, that little tablet that was #25 on the Amazon Top 25 list linked earlier was not only ugly, but wasted too much space with a physical keyboard.

Apple has proven they can make a functional device using only one physical key and a combination of multi-touch and virtual keys. Make it bigger--book sized 5"x9"--with most of the capabilities of the MacBook Air, and then I'll buy. Until then, I'll stick to what I have until it dies of old age.

djellison
Oct 22, 2008, 08:31 PM
Netbooks are toys for little children to play with.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov2kJMTK62c&feature=related

There's a netbook - doing EVERY DAMN THING of day to day computing, under OSX, and doing it quickly, smoothly, and with stunning performance. Expose working perfectly. 20 windows open whilst playing a movie - smooth as anything. Safari. Mail. iTunes.

THEY ARE NOT TOYS. THEY ARE FANTASTIC NOTEBOOK COMPUTERS.


Take off the MSI badge, put on an Apple badge - you would stop calling it a toy and call it the greatest revelation in computing.

Admit it - Apple are behind the times. No bluray in their high-end stuff because they're unable to do what Dell, HP, Toshiba, Sony, Lenovo, Acer et.al. have done and get the licencing sorted ( utterly pathetic ) and no sub-notebook like every other manufacturer can manage because they can't figure out how to make one that doesnt 'suck'

I'm rapidly leaning towards an MSI wind (with VGA out, three USB ports, and a memory card reader) rather than the new MB with it's reflectovision screen, £20 adaptors for external displays, two USB ports rammed too close together and no card reader.

What I wouldn't give to march into an Apple board meeting and rattle their snobbish, blinkered, crazy minds. I love the OS ( although it drives me to dispair sometimes ) but the hardware they demand their users buy to use that OS being specified by utter mentalists.

Doug

NT1440
Oct 22, 2008, 08:37 PM
Again, I sense that for some reason here people think that Apple is in the wrong for not making a notebook.

djellison
Oct 22, 2008, 08:50 PM
Again, I sense that for some reason here people think that Apple is in the wrong for not making a notebook.

I think people are in the wrong for continually refering to sub-notebooks as toys, simply because Apple don't make one.

The problem ( and it is unique to Apple ) is that the choice of OS is links to the choice of Hardware.

If I want to run XP or Vista - I can have a sodding great 19" laptop with Full HD, I can have a tablet, a sub-notebook, a Blu-ray equipped 15", I can have any sort of machine I can possibly imagine, and because there are so many, I can have it cheaply.

It is frustrating beyond words to have what I consider some monumentally bone-headed decision choices put infront of me as the only laptop options to use OSX with. There is no technical reason for Apple to not produce a blu-ray equipped laptop, or a 10" sub-notebook. They just decide not too - and it's frustrating as hell.

Doug

djellison
Oct 22, 2008, 08:52 PM
Netbooks are toys .

ARHGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHGHGHG

You are so so so damn wrong it's not even funny. I pity you for being so blinkered by Steve Jobs - I really do.

NT1440
Oct 22, 2008, 08:56 PM
There is no technical reason for Apple to not produce a blu-ray equipped laptop, or a 10" sub-notebook. They just decide not too - and it's frustrating as hell.

Doug

:confused:

Does every company do everything people think they should?

I'm not saying that the netbook is a toy or anything (i just happened to post after your post) and yes they COULD bring one to market. Then again they could bring a car to market, a gaming rig to the market, etc. All im really saying is that just because they have the means doesnt mean they have to or should.

djellison
Oct 22, 2008, 09:05 PM
just because they have the means doesnt mean they have to or should.

Obviously. It's all opinion based. I just can not comprehend the decision making processes that are going on at Cupertino right now. They're doing some things that I find jaw droppingly stupid, and they're not doing things that a palm-on-forehead obvious.

With XP - I can have any sort of machine I want. With OSX, I'm stuck paying 50% more, to buy whatever it is Apple thinks I should have. It's the dissonance between the OS I want, and the laptop I want not being from the same company.

And then, whatever hardware Apple makes, the Apple fanboy network claim is the best ( when often, it isn't ) and anything they don't make is a toy or some other derisory comment. Yet - the moment they start making something that other people have been doing for some time, and usually, have been doing it better - suddenly the Apple one is the best. Steve Jobs does it - something is rubbish until it's a feature, then it's pure brilliance. Apple is a very very hard company to like sometimes.

Doug

hithere
Oct 22, 2008, 09:47 PM
Blu Ray? Why?
CD's and DVD's are going to die. I wish Apple removed the drive from its MB's and MBP's and gave a decent external one as an option.

hithere
Oct 22, 2008, 09:51 PM
And I would not like to sound as a fanboy, but when Apple will come out with a subnotebook/tablet/netbook/whatever, I think (and I hope) it will have the same quality of the iPhone or of their laptops (forget about the new screens, which I don't love).

And no, I can bet that there will not be anything on the supercheap side. You want cheep and low quality, get something else.

DanBUK
Oct 22, 2008, 10:07 PM
I think people are in the wrong for continually refering to sub-notebooks as toys, simply because Apple don't make one.

The problem ( and it is unique to Apple ) is that the choice of OS is links to the choice of Hardware.

If I want to run XP or Vista - I can have a sodding great 19" laptop with Full HD, I can have a tablet, a sub-notebook, a Blu-ray equipped 15", I can have any sort of machine I can possibly imagine, and because there are so many, I can have it cheaply.

It is frustrating beyond words to have what I consider some monumentally bone-headed decision choices put infront of me as the only laptop options to use OSX with. There is no technical reason for Apple to not produce a blu-ray equipped laptop, or a 10" sub-notebook. They just decide not too - and it's frustrating as hell.

Doug

It will come but not until the rest of the ecosystem is in place. Apple has a very certain style when releasing brand new products- it always has an internal logic and integration.

MobileMe is one link, but will need to be developed.

I can forsee a real push by Apple toward Cloud computing coming but things are still "nascent". Possibly a web-based iWork utility suite a la google docs (hopefully less annoyingly buggy) and a relaunch of iDisk.
materialising.

I also believe that it will be an upscaling of the iPhone rather than a cheapening and shrinking of the MacBook- Apple will herald it as a new category, and take the glory for making cloud computing viable.

Also- there is no way it will manage all that above and be a professional class tablet for creative design. Can't see it.

Late '09 earliest. (IMHO)

DMann
Oct 22, 2008, 10:20 PM
Blu Ray? Why?
CD's and DVD's are going to die. I wish Apple removed the drive from its MB's and MBP's and gave a decent external one as an option.

Digital Hollographic Disk (DHD) and/or Holographic Versatile Disc are next, along with Programmable Metallization Cell (Terabyte Flash on a USB stick)

Blu-Ray support will likely be included in Snow Leopard, along with fast H.264 encoding, but Blu-Ray, as well as CDs and HD-DVDs will all likely be soon phased-out (by way of the floppy disk) as Metallization Cell Memory is introduced. No more worry about degradation of discs, or having rooms filled with spindles to store them on - I am greatly looking forward to this.

highjumppudding
Oct 22, 2008, 11:01 PM
if apple HAS to conform to netbooks or cheap prices, they will. but apple is doing well and will continue to do well in a recession. before i quit working at apple in january the managers kept saying over and over that apple will continue to be strong even through a recession (and apple retail would still have jobs).

localoid
Oct 23, 2008, 12:04 AM
if apple HAS to conform to netbooks or cheap prices, they will. but apple is doing well and will continue to do well in a recession. before i quit working at apple in january the managers kept saying over and over that apple will continue to be strong even through a recession (and apple retail would still have jobs).

I remember visiting IBM in the 90s and hearing their people talk about how their Micro Channel bus was going to win the Battle of the (IBM) Clones. They thought that largely due to group think (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink).

Just saying...

latchthekid
Oct 23, 2008, 12:53 AM
Alright, so I tried to paste my previous post from another thread but it got deleted for repeating posts... So I am just gonna link to my post. If you read it, please do, let me know what you think guys. Thanks.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=6473129#post6473129

Pablo
Oct 23, 2008, 07:23 AM
I'm rapidly leaning towards an MSI wind (with VGA out, three USB ports, and a memory card reader) rather than the new MB with it's reflectovision screen, £20 adaptors for external displays, two USB ports rammed too close together and no card reader.


Do it. It requires a little effort to swap out the WiFi card, but once done you have a very nice little machine. If you can install RAM (which you should also do while you are opening the case) you can install a new WiFi card.

I'm really enjoying mine.

johnmcboston
Oct 23, 2008, 07:38 AM
Blu Ray? Why?
CD's and DVD's are going to die. I wish Apple removed the drive from its MB's and MBP's and gave a decent external one as an option.

So I can play blu ray movies without buying a really expensive TVs... 'round silver media' may certainly die, but it's still a long way off...

koobcamuk
Oct 24, 2008, 10:33 AM
Take off the MSI badge, put on an Apple badge - you would stop calling it a toy and call it the greatest revelation in computing.

Rubbish. What screen size is that? My friend had (note had) an eeePC and I have my 12" PB G4. My G4 has a 250GB Hard Drive, Photoshop, Office, all the software I need and all on Leopard. The eeePc is only good for what, emailing? my iPhone does that better. I can't see how the eeePC is better than my 12" PowerBook. Even if Apple made one, I wouldn't get it. Tablet, maybe, netbook in notebook format, no way. My 12" PowerBook is portable and I have 3 batteries and can take it anywhere.

Netbooks are toys at this stage. You can't work properly on something so damn tiny (sub 11" screen) for any real length of time. Useless to many.

pmpknetr21
Oct 24, 2008, 11:39 AM
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov2kJMTK62c&feature=related

There's a netbook - doing EVERY DAMN THING of day to day computing, under OSX, and doing it quickly, smoothly, and with stunning performance. Expose working perfectly. 20 windows open whilst playing a movie - smooth as anything. Safari. Mail. iTunes.

THEY ARE NOT TOYS. THEY ARE FANTASTIC NOTEBOOK COMPUTERS.


Take off the MSI badge, put on an Apple badge - you would stop calling it a toy and call it the greatest revelation in computing.

Admit it - Apple are behind the times. No bluray in their high-end stuff because they're unable to do what Dell, HP, Toshiba, Sony, Lenovo, Acer et.al. have done and get the licencing sorted ( utterly pathetic ) and no sub-notebook like every other manufacturer can manage because they can't figure out how to make one that doesnt 'suck'

I'm rapidly leaning towards an MSI wind (with VGA out, three USB ports, and a memory card reader) rather than the new MB with it's reflectovision screen, £20 adaptors for external displays, two USB ports rammed too close together and no card reader.

What I wouldn't give to march into an Apple board meeting and rattle their snobbish, blinkered, crazy minds. I love the OS ( although it drives me to dispair sometimes ) but the hardware they demand their users buy to use that OS being specified by utter mentalists.

Doug


Dude, get over yourself. "Utter mentalists"? Check the pace at which Apple sells notebooks and desktops versus the rest of the industry; they outpace everyone. Check out Amazon's top 20 selling portables; it's only Macs and netbooks. Read the run-down for Apple's latest earnings call earlier this week and see how great the company is doing. Utter mentalists? Mmm, not so much.

Now, if you wanna get frustrated because of the passion and brand loyalty that Macheads have for Apple and don't always give other cpu manufacturers just credit, then do so. But don't go off on an unfounded tangent about Apple's Senior Leadership team's inability to deliver stunning products. They choose to develop and sell what they want, and the company is better for it. If your pissed 'cause they don't make a netbook or include Blu-Ray support, then go buy an Asus and Dell and call it a day.

kingtj
Oct 24, 2008, 11:55 AM
Like I said earlier, I already *own* an Asus eeePC "netbook", so I'm pretty familiar with the things first-hand.

I *do* still have to agree with those who'd label these "netbooks" as toys, because ultimately, that's all you can really categorize them as!

I have yet to meet ANYONE who bought one because it met all their computing requirements, and who is now using it as a primary machine. I have yet to meet anyone who even bought one and was able to then use it as their only "portable device" without finding it lacking!

When you ask people (yes, myself included) WHY we bought one? It boils down to being fascinated with the small size and some kind of "fuzzy idea" in our heads that surely, we could find SOME cool use for such a thing.

If Apple made one today, and made it comparable to what the competition offers, it wouldn't change my opinion a bit. I'd still say it's essentially just a "neat toy". I think it'd sell pretty well, because it's cheap, would run OS X, and people would make excuses for why they want/need one. (EG. Hey, I could throw it in a toolbox and take it with me when I need to reprogram phone systems, or routers, or ??)

So far, my eeePC has spent more time getting alternate OS's loaded on it (playing around with my options) than it has getting any useful work done for me whatsoever. I'm really starting to realize that my Apple iPhone gets MUCH more real work done for me, because it's smaller than a "netbook" and has better battery life, always has a connection wherever I have cellular signal (not JUST wi-fi), and all of its apps are designed for its small screen.

These "netbooks" use non-standard sized LCD displays, but try to run applications originally written assuming you had larger screens. You wind up scrolling everything around just to see all of your program, and wasting a lot of time tinkering with adjusting font sizes and so forth. It's just not that practical.


I think people are in the wrong for continually refering to sub-notebooks as toys, simply because Apple don't make one.
Doug

pmpknetr21
Oct 24, 2008, 11:59 AM
:confused:

Does every company do everything people think they should?

I'm not saying that the netbook is a toy or anything (i just happened to post after your post) and yes they COULD bring one to market. Then again they could bring a car to market, a gaming rig to the market, etc. All im really saying is that just because they have the means doesnt mean they have to or should.

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU! You said it perfectly.

Everybody thinks that Apple should do this or that because Apple has so much success with everything else, that they could do this or that really well also. But like NT1440 said, just because they can doesn't mean they should.

Besides, ever stop to think that maybe Apple is successful because of the things they chose NOT to do? They're methodical in their process and will (usually) take the time necessary to develop a product right.

Urenstaat
Oct 25, 2008, 12:35 AM
I just can not comprehend the decision making processes that are going on at Cupertino right now. They're doing some things that I find jaw droppingly stupid, and they're not doing things that a palm-on-forehead obvious.

With XP - I can have any sort of machine I want. With OSX, I'm stuck paying 50% more, to buy whatever it is Apple thinks I should have.
Doug

I couldn't agree more. The 13-inch The MacBook Air (nothing more than an overpriced thin but otherwise normal notebook) should have been a 10-inch Mac Netbook. Not too thin, just a small footprint. Give it 2x USB 2.0, Displayport, Ethernet, audio out & in (so you can use it to record interviews), wel basically give it what the MSI Wind or the Lenevo S10 has (latter has even an ExpressCard slot!). Not thin, but small footprint!! That's what matters in a netbook. The Air is such a stupid concept..

A 10-inch netboook screen is typically 1024 x 600 pixels. Well, guess what? My old iBook and 12-inch Powerbook both had 1024 x 768 pixels. I've used both professionally for 3 + 4 = 7 years. Yes, the screen is small, but workable.. Of course, most people buy it as a second, or third machine.. For lots of other people, it's all they need. My sister is not interested in computers at all, still she needs one to log into her schools intranet from home. I advised her to buy a MSI Wind. It's really all she needs. And less than 400 euro is all she wants to spent..

rtdunham
Oct 25, 2008, 09:09 AM
...I'm really starting to realize that my Apple iPhone gets MUCH more real work done for me, because it's smaller than a "netbook" and has better battery life, always has a connection wherever I have cellular signal (not JUST wi-fi), and all of its apps are designed for its small screen.

If apple authorized one of the accessory companies to make a folding keyboard to attach to the iPhone, is there a word processing/note-taking app for the iPhone that would allow students to take notes in class, users to write and edit short documents, etc?

corinhorn
Oct 25, 2008, 09:38 AM
THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU! You said it perfectly.

Everybody thinks that Apple should do this or that because Apple has so much success with everything else, that they could do this or that really well also. But like NT1440 said, just because they can doesn't mean they should.

Besides, ever stop to think that maybe Apple is successful because of the things they chose NOT to do? They're methodical in their process and will (usually) take the time necessary to develop a product right.

The netbook market is so incredibly new, I think Apple would be foolish to jump into it. I think it is wise on Apple's part to see what happens to the netbook craze. If netbook popularity dissipates into nothingness in the near future, Apple would look rather foolish if they had jumped into the craze.

I remember when those dopey mini discs (or whatever) and mini disc players were the newest thing. Those things went nowhere fast and now they are simply a novelty.

If the netbook market continues to have a presence and grows in the next year or two, it would then make more sense for Apple to produce a product to spank the competition.

Nasus
Oct 25, 2008, 10:01 AM
If the netbook market continues to have a presence and grows in the next year or two, it would then make more sense for Apple to produce a product to spank the competition.

I couldn't agree more. I don't think a netbook has to be about being cheap either. For me, it was all about portability when traveling. I have a ASUS 1000H that fits right in my purse. The quality and durability seem to be good but of course performance is compromised. It is what is is for the money but I miss my MacBook Pro when traveling. I would gladly pay more for a Mac in the netbook category.

Just since I purchased my ASUS earlier I can see this market has grown. I think Apple will enter this market at some point but I see their difficulty in finding a niche in their line up. I don't know how successful the MacBook Air has been but it never appealed to me - to big and not enough storage. When Apple decides to enter this market I'll bet they will "spank" the competition!

zer0tails
Oct 25, 2008, 01:12 PM
I can say one thing with 100% certainty. If Apple does indeed come out with a netbook, you can be assured that it's going to cost you the price of 2-3 asus eees.

Apple has never liked making products at the low end of the spectrum. Mac mini is one but it's being neglected now, and was mainly a product that sought to lure switchers.

I think any netbook Apple makes will probably be 999. I have no idea where the air would fit in then.

zer0tails
Oct 25, 2008, 01:15 PM
There are fully featured sub notebooks (optical drive and all) out there that matches the air in portability such as the Vaio Z series. Nope, its not paper thin but it does have similar price, better specs (probably except for the GPU), optical drive, better battery life, aluminum/carbon fiber enclosure and has a smaller foot print then the air. Of course, the only problem is, it runs Vista.

Also. One of the reason I always fail to bring my PC subnotebook/netbook friends into the Mac fold is simply because they want a computer with a smaller foot print rather then being wide and super thin.

this is what i tell my pc subnotebook/netbook friends: Would you rather carry a thin magazine or a fatter book?

rollsroyce442
Oct 26, 2008, 05:26 AM
I'll buy one the first day they come out

Mackan
Oct 26, 2008, 08:46 AM
If the netbook market continues to have a presence and grows in the next year or two, it would then make more sense for Apple to produce a product to spank the competition.

Maybe spank in exterior design, but I don't think the majority of potential customers out there wants to pay $800 or more for a "netbook". Because that would be the absolute minimum price if Apple is doing one. Apple wouldn't sell anything that doesn't give at least 30% profit.

puffnstuff
Oct 26, 2008, 09:57 AM
As much as I think it would be cool for them to bring back the emate in a way I kind of think they shouldn't

If Apple were to come out with a netbook it would probably run iphone os.

I think it would be better for a third party company to make something that will allow you to plug in your iphone or ipod touch and use the bigger screen and keyboard. If third party companies did it that way you would get something that Apple does not do these days. And that is variety. One company can make an 8.9" notebook shell another can make a 10" touch screen and another can make one that comes with an optical.

Lots of choices that way rather then being stuck with Apples single netbook offering.

mogzieee
Oct 31, 2008, 05:06 AM
To replace the Mac mini, Apple needs to come out with a desktop computer. A laptop cannot replace the Mac mini.

They have. It's called an iMac.

takao
Oct 31, 2008, 08:06 AM
i read that the current estimate of all netbooks which will be sold till the end of the year is around 14 million

that's quite a bit i would say