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MacRumors
Oct 22, 2008, 12:20 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/10/22/iphone-accounted-for-39-of-apple-revenue-in-q4-2008/)

During yesterday's conference call (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/10/21/apple-reports-1-14-billion-profit-for-q4-2008/), Apple revealed that iPhone was responsible for 39% of the company's revenues in Q4 2008. Due to Apple's decision to report iPhone earnings as subscription revenue over 24 months, however, these numbers are not reflected in the $1.14 billion net profit and $7.9 billion in revenue reported yesterday. If they had been included, this would represent an additional (http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10072404-37.html) $3.8 billion in revenue and an additional $1.3 billion in net income.

As noted (http://daringfireball.net/2008/10/the_phone_company) by many, the size of this number is remarkable for a product that has been on the market for only 15 months. Steve Jobs highlighted the significance of the numbers by putting Apple's iPhone sales into perspective:

- Apple sold more iPhones than RIM sold Blackberries in Q4 2008
- In terms of revenue, Apple is now #3 amongst mobile phone vendors behind Nokia and Samsung and beating out Sony Ericsson which falls at #4.

When questioned about Apple's plans for the future in face of increasing iPhone competition, Jobs suggested that they would continue (http://seekingalpha.com/article/100980-apple-f4q08-qtr-end-9-27-08-earnings-call-transcript?page=-1) to aggressively price the iPhone and make ongoing improvements:

Article Link: iPhone Accounted for 39% of Apple Revenue in Q4 2008 (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/10/22/iphone-accounted-for-39-of-apple-revenue-in-q4-2008/)



TheSlush
Oct 22, 2008, 12:25 PM
More than I thought. The Mac people aren't going to like this! :)

(L)
Oct 22, 2008, 12:25 PM
Wow. I had no idea they were that popular -- I'm curious how many people got the 3G one even after buying the first one.

shanmugam
Oct 22, 2008, 12:26 PM
$25 billion on cash and save $20 on the firewire :eek:

run and hide ...

--disgruntled apple fanboy

mainstreetmark
Oct 22, 2008, 12:27 PM
I once had a single type of product account for 40% of my sales income, but then I only sold 2 of them.

kavika411
Oct 22, 2008, 12:31 PM
One Basket, meet Too Many Eggs. Too Many Eggs, meet One Basket.

pismodude2
Oct 22, 2008, 12:32 PM
No surprises here...

SFgadgetman
Oct 22, 2008, 12:34 PM
Can anyone explain what a price umbrella is?

mkrishnan
Oct 22, 2008, 12:38 PM
More than I thought. The Mac people aren't going to like this! :)

I think you can look at this at least two different ways...

From the main MR article (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/10/21/apple-reports-1-14-billion-profit-for-q4-2008/) on the quarterly earnings report:

Apple shipped 2,611,000 Macintosh computers during the quarter, representing 21 percent unit growth and 17 percent revenue growth over the year-ago quarter. The Company sold 11,052,000 iPods during the quarter, representing eight percent unit growth and three percent revenue growth over the year-ago quarter. Quarterly iPhone units sold were 6,892,000 compared to 1,119,000 in the year-ago-quarter.

One way to look at this is to say that, as three "legs of the stool," the iPhone had explosive growth and the iPod had slightly better than saturation-market growth, while the Macs did somewhere in between -- the Mac revenue growth number would put Apple at pretty much best-in-class among computer OEMs for growth even without the iPhone sales. From this perspective, the Macs are doing fine, but there is the danger that, should iPhone sales ultimately tank, Apple will at some point have big year-over-year drops in gross and net revenue even if they continue to grow their Mac sales. But as long as that doesn't happen, it isn't such a big deal, and temporary fluctuations in overall revenues are thankfully smoothed significantly by amortizing the iPhone revenue over a period of time.

Another way to look at it is that, if Apple can sustain this pace of iPhone sales, that once a full year cycle of selling iPhones this fast and hard finishes, the iPhone will represent a huge portion of their revenues both in the sense of actual collections and on their quarterly earnings sheet. From that perspective, there is always the danger of market pressure for Apple to dump its resources into the high growth areas and starve off Mac development, although recently they've been showing at least some principled aversion to this.

In the long run, I'm really curious to see how this will play out. While there have been phones this popular before, I don't know that there have been many times like this when a single phone held one of the top three company market shares in the phone industry. That's the astonishing part. Just the one iPhone, that only comes in a couple of capacity and color variants, is going toe-to-toe with the entire lineups of Samsung and S-E. I bet that's going to generate even more pressure for Apple to expand the iPhone into a range of mobile devices... or else defend why they believe they can sustain such a large fraction of the market on just one form factor. I wonder what will happen with that.

Rybold
Oct 22, 2008, 12:40 PM
.
WHOA !!!! This means the profit increase of 26% does not include the iPhone! It's from Mac and iPod sales. The iPhone Billions are even more on top of that! WHOA !!!

shanmugam
Oct 22, 2008, 12:50 PM
if mobile devices (iPod, iPhone) really making apple rich why not create a netbook?

stripped down netbook for $500 will make profit and make halo effect more

- it is my opinion.

[We know if apple makes netbook, it will beat everyothers netbooks hands down]

gnasher729
Oct 22, 2008, 12:52 PM
Can anyone explain what a price umbrella is?

If you sell a product at a price that is too high, it allows and encourages competitors to come up with competing products that may not be quite as good, but almost as good, and cheaper, and take away your sales. That is called a "price umbrella": Your competitors are protected by your own high price. But if the price is low enough, competitors won't even try to undercut you with a cheaper product.

mac.life
Oct 22, 2008, 12:54 PM
Can anyone explain what a price umbrella is?

Can you say iPhone Nano!

Of course it's in development!!

Hope all those other electronics companies that have been pushing bad phones on us for years go under and get theirs....

Rybold
Oct 22, 2008, 12:56 PM
if mobile devices (iPod, iPhone) really making apple rich why not create a netbook?
stripped down netbook for $500 will make profit and make halo effect more

- it is my opinion.

[We know if apple makes netbook, it will beat everyothers netbooks hands down]

Netbook aside (which I totally agree with), Hewlett Packard has commercials on TV right now that they have a new touch-screen PC. Looks like Apple is no going to be able to be a first-to-market for touch-screen PCs. Good Job, Steve! You should have introduced the touch-screen PC months ago!!!
- it is my opinion.

daveL
Oct 22, 2008, 01:02 PM
Arn, the revenue was $7.9 B, not $6.22 B, which was for the year ago period.

Super Geek
Oct 22, 2008, 01:04 PM
Netbook aside (which I totally agree with), Hewlett Packard has commercials on TV right now that they have a new touch-screen PC. Looks like Apple is no going to be able to be a first-to-market for touch-screen PCs. Good Job, Steve! You should have introduced the touch-screen PC months ago!!!
- it is my opinion.

Apple is not about being first at doing something it's about being the first to do it right.

Have you ever used an HP touchscreen PC, I have, they're horrendous, vista is not a touch based UI, neither is OS X, hence no touch screen.

When full OS X gets Cocoa touch and Apple develops a gesture and touch based UI (i'm thinking 10.7, but maybe it will be such a jump they'll call it OS XI) then you'll see touchscreen macs.

imgonephishin
Oct 22, 2008, 01:05 PM
Netbook aside (which I totally agree with), Hewlett Packard has commercials on TV right now that they have a new touch-screen PC. Looks like Apple is no going to be able to be a first-to-market for touch-screen PCs. Good Job, Steve! You should have introduced the touch-screen PC months ago!!!
- it is my opinion.

Patience, young grasshopper.

Apple’s never worried about being the first to rush a product to market. That philosophy is akin to the morons who scream “FIRST!!!11!!” at the top of most forum boards. Instead, they try to be the first to implement that functionality well. They certainly weren’t first to the MP3 game and we all see how poorly that turned out. And man, smartphones, email and mobile browsing had been around for years before the iPhone so that product flopped. My point is, Apple takes a product category and does it better than anyone else, even if that means they’re not first.

Xian Zhu Xuande
Oct 22, 2008, 01:06 PM
Netbook aside (which I totally agree with), Hewlett Packard has commercials on TV right now that they have a new touch-screen PC. Looks like Apple is no going to be able to be a first-to-market for touch-screen PCs. Good Job, Steve! You should have introduced the touch-screen PC months ago!!!
- it is my opinion.
Touch screen PC? They've been on the market for quite a while now... I was experimenting with one from HP at Best Buy more than a year ago. Being first to market isn't important. Being first to market and doing it right is. The touch-screen PCs I've worked with were not a pleasure to use.

velocityg4
Oct 22, 2008, 01:08 PM
$25 billion on cash and save $20 on the firewire :eek:

run and hide ...

--disgruntled apple fanboy
Given that you can buy standalone PCI firewire cards for $6 I would say Apple is probably saving $3-4 by not including firewire in the Macbook.

That is surprising though that the iPhone is 39%. I guess they have no reason to add 3G to the laptops.

Pants Dragon
Oct 22, 2008, 01:15 PM
One Basket, meet Too Many Eggs. Too Many Eggs, meet One Basket.

I don't think you understand the distinction between putting all your eggs in one basket and making a ****ton of money from one product. It's not like they've invested the future of the company in the iPhone.(Though that would probably work anyway) Are you suggesting that making a wildly successful product is a BAD thing?

CrackedButter
Oct 22, 2008, 01:16 PM
Interesting that Apple are willing to compete on price and be prepared to drop their prices in order to gain marketshare but aren't willing to do the same with the mac side of the business. Their growth could be bigger if they lowered prices instead of raising them.

lowbatteries
Oct 22, 2008, 01:19 PM
I wonder what the halo effect of this is going to be. I bought my first Mac because I loved my iPod Video so much, how many of these iPhone users will buy a Mac when it comes time to replace their current machines?

I would also like to see the numbers on how many iPod touch users are out there. The iPods have a nice, but limited UI. It's impressive, but having a iPhone or Touch with all of their awesome GUI goodness surely will make everyone want to try the full-fledged OS X.

Interesting that Apple are willing to compete on price and be prepared to drop their prices in order to gain marketshare but aren't willing to do the same with the mac side of the business. Their growth could be bigger if they lowered prices instead of raising them.

I think this is mainly because AT&T (and other mobile companies) are picking up the slack. Apple wouldn't sell them that cheap directly to consumers. I think he should have said "we will continue to force the wireless providers to price them competitively".

zacman
Oct 22, 2008, 01:23 PM
Have you ever used an HP touchscreen PC, I have, they're horrendous, vista is not a touch based UI

I disagree. Together with OneNote 2007 it's just fantastic. I just love the handwriting recognizer and the ability to actually search audio files thanks to the built-in voice recognition system in Vista.

editguy
Oct 22, 2008, 01:32 PM
Are you suggesting that making a wildly successful product is a BAD thing?

It is if they get so focused on the iPhone that they ignore everything else. At some point the iPhone will reach it's saturation market. Not everyone that wants a phone will want an iPhone. And phone buyers seem to like to change phone, and phone designs, often before they get totally bored with it. So having diversification in the products they offer will lead to long term profitability.

filmguy15
Oct 22, 2008, 01:40 PM
I disagree. Together with OneNote 2007 it's just fantastic. I just love the handwriting recognizer and the ability to actually search audio files thanks to the built-in voice recognition system in Vista.

To me, all that stuff seems like a novelty. Cool to use for the first time, but brings no real value to the computing world, and certainly won't change the way we use computers.

I have never understood this outcry for a Mac Tablet. Sure it would be "cool" to have a giant touchscreen, but when it comes to day to day use, I feel like it would get old fast. Maybe I'm wrong, who knows...

DaBrain
Oct 22, 2008, 01:40 PM
More than I thought. The Mac people aren't going to like this! :)

Yep you got that right! Pretty soon it will be the Apple Phone Company! :eek:

rufwork
Oct 22, 2008, 01:40 PM
at least cite Gruber. ;^)

vandy1997
Oct 22, 2008, 01:47 PM
"Well, I think we have to be the best and I think we have to not leave a price umbrella underneath us, and we are working very hard to fulfill both of those goals."

I hope that Apple doesn't continue to follow through with this ideology. Otherwise, it will be difficult for us to see a version of the iPhone with much better features, such as a better camera (more mps and flash), possibly a second camera for video conferencing, a video recording app, a voice dialing app, more memory, removable battery/longer-lasting battery, a WiMAX antenna, a compass, and a memory slot for an SD or microSD card.

This would be a "Pro" version of the iPhone that would provide more functionality for a premium. I believe that there are quite a few people who would pay an additional amount for such features. However, this will not happen if Apple sticks to its "high quality/low price" model.

Saladinos
Oct 22, 2008, 01:50 PM
It is if they get so focused on the iPhone that they ignore everything else. At some point the iPhone will reach it's saturation market. Not everyone that wants a phone will want an iPhone. And phone buyers seem to like to change phone, and phone designs, often before they get totally bored with it. So having diversification in the products they offer will lead to long term profitability.

Doesn't fit the facts. Apple are the #3 mobile phone seller, so lots of people do want the iPhone. It's making a lot of Apple's revenue, but that's not the whole story - it's got a lot of the market as a whole.

The iPhone is also not static - there are lots of software updates. The 2.0 update pretty much turned the EDGE iPhone in to a new phone with the additional software features.

Your argument isn't logical - if people want to change phones, why not upgrade their current iPhone to the newest model? If Apple is concentrating on the iPhone as much as you say they are, there should be a new model every year. This saturation argument is the same as we heard with the iPod, and that never came to be.

I doubt Apple is concentrating on the iPhone as much as the revenue statement would lead some to think. There are separate teams that work in each business, and all of them are doing well, because all businesses are growing. Apple isn't abandoning the Mac (you'd be crazy to think they were).

Rybold
Oct 22, 2008, 01:51 PM
Apple is not about being first at doing something it's about being the first to do it right. Have you ever used an HP touchscreen PC, I have, they're horrendous

Patience, young grasshopper. Apple’s never worried about being the first to rush a product to market. That philosophy is akin to the morons who scream “FIRST!!!11!!” at the top of most forum boards. Instead, they try to be the first to implement that functionality well. They certainly weren’t first to the MP3 game and we all see how poorly that turned out. And man, smartphones

Being first to market isn't important. Being first to market and doing it right is. The touch-screen PCs I've worked with were not a pleasure to use.

Thank you for the replies. I'm new to being an Apple customer (I used to hate Apple (I was younger and closed-minded), but now I own an iPod mini and an iPhone3G and I'm considering a MacBook Air). I used to always think that Apple was first to market after hearing hundreds of people tell me that Microsoft copied the concept of a GUI from Apple and then seeing the first-gen iPhones (and fyi: the first mp3 player that I ever saw was an iPod ... about 6 years ago). But thanks for the replies. I learn something new about Apple every day. Thanks. Now I just have to figure out how in the heck to "right click" on a Mac. I've been a PC user for decades, but lately I've been trying to use the Macs at our local library, and I have to say it's an awkward transition. But I'm being persistent and hoping I will see the benefit.

cantthinkofone
Oct 22, 2008, 01:53 PM
AT&T has no room to complain now :p

Rybold
Oct 22, 2008, 01:56 PM
..a "Pro" version of the iPhone ..a version of the iPhone with much better features, such as a better camera (more mps and flash), possibly a second camera for video conferencing, a video recording app, a voice dialing app, more memory, removable battery/longer-lasting battery, a WiMAX antenna, a compass, and a memory slot for an SD or microSD card.

..more functionality for a premium. I believe that there are quite a few people who would pay an additional amount for such features.

BRILLIANT IDEA !!!!!!!! :D:D:D:D:D

(if smart phones continue the current trend of becoming more and more like computers, then I think this concept is inevitable in the long run)

TwinCities Dan
Oct 22, 2008, 02:11 PM
Now I just have to figure out how in the heck to "right click" on a Mac.


Ctrl-Click... ;)

iPhoneJoe
Oct 22, 2008, 02:27 PM
With the iphone accounting for 39% of their profits I'd say it was a smart business decision

eastcoastsurfer
Oct 22, 2008, 02:34 PM
Can anyone explain what a price umbrella is?

If you sell a product at a price that is too high, it allows and encourages competitors to come up with competing products that may not be quite as good, but almost as good, and cheaper, and take away your sales. That is called a "price umbrella": Your competitors are protected by your own high price. But if the price is low enough, competitors won't even try to undercut you with a cheaper product.

It also ties into the theory of Disruptive Technology presented in the book "The Innovators Dilemma." See here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disruptive_technology

If the iPhone (and I think macs in this case too) remain a high end luxury item, competitors will make cheaper items to fill in that lower price point. These items won't be as good as the Apple items, but they will be 'good enough.' Technology doesn't stand still though and these items will get better which means the iPhone also has to continue to improve at that rate (or lower in price) or eventually it will be overtaken by the less expensive devices gaining features in an evolutionary fashion.

shabbasuraj
Oct 22, 2008, 02:51 PM
blah blah blah.

iphone this .. iphone that..







new MacPros please.

Beric
Oct 22, 2008, 02:52 PM
What a bummer. It's no wonder the new Macs are the way they are. Mac sales aren't that important to Apple anymore.

jbernie
Oct 22, 2008, 02:56 PM
I don't think you understand the distinction between putting all your eggs in one basket and making a ****ton of money from one product. It's not like they've invested the future of the company in the iPhone.(Though that would probably work anyway) Are you suggesting that making a wildly successful product is a BAD thing?

No, it is a good thing that they are making the money, the bad thing could be how Apple moves forward, i.e. they continue to focus efforts too much on the iPhone and ignore the other product lines or, if they rely too heavily on the profits of the iPhone which is in a pretty fickle market as people love getting the latest greatest phone and dont necessarily remain loyal to a brand, then Apple could hurt itself. Not in anyway suggesting that they are heading down this way, just examples of what could potentially happen. The cutting of firewire ports in the new portables is a could example, Apple has how much cash available and they are skimping on a single port (a consumer view).


"Well, I think we have to be the best and I think we have to not leave a price umbrella underneath us, and we are working very hard to fulfill both of those goals."

I hope that Apple doesn't continue to follow through with this ideology. Otherwise, it will be difficult for us to see a version of the iPhone with much better features, such as a better camera (more mps and flash), possibly a second camera for video conferencing, a video recording app, a voice dialing app, more memory, removable battery/longer-lasting battery, a WiMAX antenna, a compass, and a memory slot for an SD or microSD card.


(re Editguy's post) Doesn't fit the facts. Apple are the #3 mobile phone seller, so lots of people do want the iPhone. It's making a lot of Apple's revenue, but that's not the whole story - it's got a lot of the market as a whole.

The iPhone is also not static - there are lots of software updates. The 2.0 update pretty much turned the EDGE iPhone in to a new phone with the additional software features.

Your argument isn't logical - if people want to change phones, why not upgrade their current iPhone to the newest model? If Apple is concentrating on the iPhone as much as you say they are, there should be a new model every year. This saturation argument is the same as we heard with the iPod, and that never came to be.


Although we probably wont see this for another 2 years or so, Apple needs to ensure the iPhone hardware & software is continually upgraded and kept as current as possible (unlike the MacMini). You can only do so much with software to cover the shortcomings of hardware and also the reverse. Cell Phones are a world of constant change, even if Apple provides a quality device, it doesnt mean the market will share the same view when the other models have a better camera or better integration into corporate networks etc etc. So long as Apple maintains the innovation and provides fresh products then they should be fine, only do very minor updates and people will be more tempted to move on. Also the more change that occurs the easier it is to justify the pricing vs other models even if say the Android phones get cheaper.

eliotschreiner
Oct 22, 2008, 02:58 PM
Here begins the fall of the iPod.

IJ Reilly
Oct 22, 2008, 03:01 PM
If you sell a product at a price that is too high, it allows and encourages competitors to come up with competing products that may not be quite as good, but almost as good, and cheaper, and take away your sales. That is called a "price umbrella": Your competitors are protected by your own high price. But if the price is low enough, competitors won't even try to undercut you with a cheaper product.

Excellent answer.

Example: the first Android-powered phone, priced at $179, is protected by Apple's $199 umbrella. If Apple can drive the price of the iPhone down closer to $100, it becomes that much more difficult for competitors to introduce competitive products.

Project
Oct 22, 2008, 03:40 PM
Excellent answer.

Example: the first Android-powered phone, priced at $179, is protected by Apple's $199 umbrella. If Apple can drive the price of the iPhone down closer to $100, it becomes that much more difficult for competitors to introduce competitive products.

$179 > $199 is not much of an umbrella though IMO.

However, we will most likely see touchscreen Android phones at $99 before long.

Sulley Muntari
Oct 22, 2008, 03:45 PM
Apple hits another home run, these guys are geniuses. ;)

shuurajou
Oct 22, 2008, 04:12 PM
Doesn't Q4 2008 end at the end of December, not mid Oct???

currentinterest
Oct 22, 2008, 04:41 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5F136 Safari/525.20)

The qtr ending in Sept is Apple's fiscal year end.

BigD58
Oct 22, 2008, 05:06 PM
*clap* *clap* *clap* *clap* *clap* Way to go apple!

Phormic
Oct 22, 2008, 05:08 PM
What a bummer. It's no wonder the new Macs are the way they are.

Yeah. The best computers in the market. They simply have to do better.

It's really an astonishing result. To become the third biggest mobile phone company in revenue after eighteen months is unheard of. To even have the audacity to take on a market that had seemingly reached saturation point and compete with companies entrenched in that market, that supposedly knew better, is admirable for it's courageousness alone.

Apple bets their future in moves like this. And they win.

shuurajou
Oct 22, 2008, 05:13 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5F136 Safari/525.20)

The qtr ending in Sept is Apple's fiscal year end.

AH ok, thanks. Makes sense.

Beric
Oct 22, 2008, 05:26 PM
Yeah. The best computers in the market. They simply have to do better.

It's really an astonishing result. To become the third biggest mobile phone company in revenue after eighteen months is unheard of. To even have the audacity to take on a market that had seemingly reached saturation point and compete with companies entrenched in that market, that supposedly knew better, is admirable for it's courageousness alone.

Apple bets their future in moves like this. And they win.

IMO, they're not close to the best computers on the market. There's little consumer choice in models, and not close to enough BTO options. The hardware prices are also 50% higher than PC's with identical hardware. And there isn't enough power available in their Macbook "Pro" line, and what is available is at insane prices. And all that is ignoring the latest releases, with no MB firewire and no MBP Matte screens, as well as almost identical hardware as the previous lineup, and a higher-priced Macbook with a less powerful processor.

Macs may be great products for rich people, but in this economy they won't do well, as people cut back on non-necessary spending in their budgets.

sushi
Oct 22, 2008, 05:29 PM
$25 billion on cash and save $20 on the firewire :eek:

run and hide ...

--disgruntled apple fanboy
:)

FW probably costs much less than $20.

In the long run, I'm really curious to see how this will play out. While there have been phones this popular before, I don't know that there have been many times like this when a single phone held one of the top three company market shares in the phone industry. That's the astonishing part.
Agree about the astonishing part.

Apple done good! ;)

What a bummer. It's no wonder the new Macs are the way they are. Mac sales aren't that important to Apple anymore.
Actually they are. Did you see the Mac sales increase. Unbelievable.

Apple is doing it right. Methodical updates that are good, and much faster than they used to do them years ago with the PPC platform.

If you sell a product at a price that is too high, it allows and encourages competitors to come up with competing products that may not be quite as good, but almost as good, and cheaper, and take away your sales. That is called a "price umbrella": Your competitors are protected by your own high price. But if the price is low enough, competitors won't even try to undercut you with a cheaper product.
Excellent answer.

Example: the first Android-powered phone, priced at $179, is protected by Apple's $199 umbrella. If Apple can drive the price of the iPhone down closer to $100, it becomes that much more difficult for competitors to introduce competitive products.
Agree.

$179 > $199 is not much of an umbrella though IMO.

However, we will most likely see touchscreen Android phones at $99 before long.
At these price levels, I don't believe that it needs to be that much to make a difference.

Doesn't Q4 2008 end at the end of December, not mid Oct???
Apple's Fiscal Year is from October 1st to September 30th.

Many US companies and the government follow this system.

FWIW, in Japan, the typical FY is from April 1st to March 31st.

IJ Reilly
Oct 22, 2008, 05:32 PM
$179 > $199 is not much of an umbrella though IMO.

However, we will most likely see touchscreen Android phones at $99 before long.

I don't think much of a price umbrella is required on consumer products. If Apple offered the iPhone for $100, competitors would have to come at least a few dollars under that price if they hope to steal away market share. The lower the umbrella, the more discouraging it becomes for competitors to try. It's good to know that Apple recognizes that they must continue to put pricing pressure on their competitors if they want to continue to grow market share for the iPhone.

Phormic
Oct 22, 2008, 05:41 PM
IMO, they're not close to the best computers on the market. There's little consumer choice in models, and not close to enough BTO options. The hardware prices are also 50% higher than PC's with identical hardware. And there isn't enough power available in their Macbook "Pro" line, and what is available is at insane prices. And all that is ignoring the latest releases, with no MB firewire and no MBP Matte screens, as well as almost identical hardware as the previous lineup, and a higher-priced Macbook with a less powerful processor.

Well where do you start? You could mention the fact there's no mention of software at all in your screed and in software, Apple is untouchable. You could also mention that Mac sales growth have outpaced industry growth in fourteen of the last fifteen quarters, so the market seems to be making their mind up on what are, "the best computers in the market".

The lack of power in the Pro comment is so silly, it's hard to know where to start, particularly considering the shift of emphasis to graphic processors in architecture that Snow Leopard will take full advantage of, which leaves us with the usual matt screen and Firewire whine, which, when considering mobile hand set computing is experiencing explosive growth (check those iPhone sales figures again) is as petty as it is irrelevant.

You may want cheap and nasty laptops that are just barely good enough but I don't and nor does Apple.

juanster
Oct 22, 2008, 05:42 PM
pretty huge % Revenue for just the iPhone no?

kind of reminds me of Balmer when he was saying it was going to be a failure

TwinCities Dan
Oct 22, 2008, 05:54 PM
kind of reminds me of Balmer when he was saying it was going to be a failure

http://apple20.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/10/22/revisiting-the-dumbest-iphone-predictions/

Here's a bunch of them, who's laughing now!? ;) :cool:

demiphonic
Oct 22, 2008, 06:03 PM
Have you ever used an HP touchscreen PC, I have, they're horrendous, vista is not a touch based UI, neither is OS X, hence no touch screen.

When full OS X gets Cocoa touch and Apple develops a gesture and touch based UI (i'm thinking 10.7, but maybe it will be such a jump they'll call it OS XI) then you'll see touchscreen macs.

yeah heard that about the HP... here is another thing though. Touch screens (in my opinion) work well when your hand is in the downward position, like with the iPhone. I can see it working for the much wished for Mac Tablet too. ..but for an upright screen? after a few mins lifting your hand, it's gonna be hurting like hell. who can keep touching that screen for EVERY little thing at that angle! imagine a day at work with that thing! maybe you can use a mouse in addition to it I don't know? but that defeats the purpose.

jbernie
Oct 22, 2008, 06:50 PM
You may want cheap and nasty laptops that are just barely good enough but I don't and nor does Apple.

On the just announced products you either pay $999 or $2800 for a laptop with firewire, there is no in between. We don't necessarily have to have cheap, but for the money you are dropping, they certainly should have a more complete feature set. A touch irony in the fact that Firewire that was pushed so much by Apple is bordering non existance in their portable range but is available now in so many portables running windows.

yeah heard that about the HP... here is another thing though. Touch screens (in my opinion) work well when your hand is in the downward position, like with the iPhone. I can see it working for the much wished for Mac Tablet too. ..but for an upright screen? after a few mins lifting your hand, it's gonna be hurting like hell. who can keep touching that screen for EVERY little thing at that angle! imagine a day at work with that thing! maybe you can use a mouse in addition to it I don't know? but that defeats the purpose.

Well, something that seems to be forgotten in all this talk is the simple fact that a touch screen LCD as an external monitor doesnt necessarily mean it would be limited in orientation to what we have today, I can rotate my Dell LCD from landscape to portrait as need be. So, potentially, a touch screen could be designed to slide down to a more horizontal orientation than vertical. Even using a swing arm for the LCD can achieve this. People forget to think outside the box, the vertical orientation is ideal for non touch use, it isn't hard to change this for touch usage.

This is already shown in many laptops where you can rotate the screen in the horizontal axis and fold it back down so the back of the screen is resting against the keyboard and you have a tablet pc.

The challenge for touch screen in regular use, is having OS level support so integration can be across all applications and then having the hardware & software vendors follow along with the products to take advantage of it. Right now it is limited more to the portable market but as people get more and more used to the touch environment ie cell phones, kiosks (Microsoft table pc), they can see benefits to this technology and it will work its way into more normal use. Might be a few years yet, but you only need one or two killer apps sometimes to make change happen quicker.

synth3tik
Oct 22, 2008, 07:46 PM
Wow 39% with a product who's software still needs major improvements.

Sulley Muntari
Oct 22, 2008, 08:02 PM
Wow 39% with a product who's software still needs major improvements.Which phone in the world doesn't have software that needs improvement? ;)

gco212
Oct 22, 2008, 08:57 PM
this accounting method seems correct considering that the iPhone sales are likely to come in droves. A ton when the new models are released, a bunch at Christmas and less the rest of the year. This should smooth the revenue stream evenly over the course of the year do the first quarter doesn't look drastically lower.

MacOldTimer!
Oct 22, 2008, 10:34 PM
It's a month behind on background App delivery.

Safari is still extremely unstable.

I don't get my mail unless I check it.

My apps crash and I have to reset my iPhone like it's Vista.

Fix the phone first before releasing Antoher Product.

Everytime I say this I get blasted with people saying they have 100's of developers and they all work on their own products.

Move them to the iPhone to make it Work as a phone that doesn't reset or require a restart 3 times a day.

Give me the basic phone functionallity

MacOldTimer!
Oct 22, 2008, 10:38 PM
It's a month behind on background App delivery.

Safari is still extremely unstable.

I don't get my mail unless I check it.

My apps crash and I have to reset my iPhone like it's Vista.

Fix the phone first before releasing Antoher Product.

Everytime I say this I get blasted with people saying they have 100's of developers and they all work on their own products.

Move them to the iPhone to make it Work as a phone that doesn't reset or require a restart 3 times a day.

Give me the basic phone functions that my Motorla V551 had 6 years ago.

Apple has great phones coming out and they continue to cash in on the iPhone without fixing the problems. Sounds like Freddie Mac.

Yo, Freddie Steve. Fix my iPhone.

This will get deleted because I spoke out against Steve but for those that read it I hope you jump on board.

highjumppudding
Oct 22, 2008, 10:57 PM
the iphone is the new ipod. next, is gaming.

demiphonic
Oct 22, 2008, 11:21 PM
the iphone is the new ipod. next, is gaming.


I'm actually afraid (for gamers) that Apple may consider a game console. I wonder if it will hurt us by segregating the market too much? does the market have room for another console? (I know my wallet doesn't) :eek: & we know it's unlikely they will use Blu-Ray anytime soon judging by this latest refresh. ..so they won't compete with Sony's graphics. Apple is known for innovation but if there's one company that will give em a run for their money is Nintendo :D so they will only have quality & quantity of games to compete with. (& with that, they will have to start from scratch)

Granted.. by the time they come out with a Console (maybe 1.5 years - just guessing) blu-ray may be an option then. ...but I swear that will be a much harder market to break into. However if they pull another 'iPhone' & take over the market there is really NOTHING that Apple can't do :D

macshill
Oct 23, 2008, 12:11 AM
And THIS makes up for the rest of it (profits):

From Apple, a Luxury Laptop in Lean Times
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/22/AR2008102203178.html

Is the MacBook Overpriced?
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2333116,00.asp

Review: New MacBook puts style over affordability
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i_Vy5BFjDMEnpR1T4zG4dTlkYtFAD93VNFJO1

I could find 5 or 6 more articles echoing this [from Google News: Science/Technology].

:rolleyes:

SeaFox
Oct 23, 2008, 06:11 AM
Can you say iPhone Nano!

Of course it's in development!!
I'm listening, if it's not AT&T-only.

You hear me Apple? Only if it's not AT&T-only.

at least cite Gruber. ;^)
Yeah, because he's not just another blog writer. :rolleyes:

takao
Oct 23, 2008, 06:52 AM
while the mac platform is doing good (and better as the market) at the current weak state of Microsoft it should be _soaring_ high up into the skies
if Windows 7 turns out to be moderately OK like XP was it will be enough to bring them an awful lot of customers
it's all about using the window of opportunity

why is apple doing price reductions on their phones desperately trying to catch more marketshare while on the mac side they actually increase prices ?

world wide Apple is still not in the Top 5 vendors

Porchland
Oct 23, 2008, 09:09 AM
In the long run, I'm really curious to see how this will play out. While there have been phones this popular before, I don't know that there have been many times like this when a single phone held one of the top three company market shares in the phone industry. That's the astonishing part. Just the one iPhone, that only comes in a couple of capacity and color variants, is going toe-to-toe with the entire lineups of Samsung and S-E. I bet that's going to generate even more pressure for Apple to expand the iPhone into a range of mobile devices... or else defend why they believe they can sustain such a large fraction of the market on just one form factor. I wonder what will happen with that.

I think Apple will see at least three more growth phases for iPhone. First, the AT&T deal will continue to grow Apple's market share for at least another year. Second, Apple will expand the iPhone to other U.S. carriers in 2010 or 2011, which will broaden the market to consumers who will not change carriers. Third, Apple will eventually introduce a smaller, more limited, and cheaper iPhone, which will broaden the market to consumers who want a plain old mobile phone with Apple ease of use.

wrxdrunkie
Oct 23, 2008, 10:33 AM
To me, all that stuff seems like a novelty. Cool to use for the first time, but brings no real value to the computing world, and certainly won't change the way we use computers.

I have never understood this outcry for a Mac Tablet. Sure it would be "cool" to have a giant touchscreen, but when it comes to day to day use, I feel like it would get old fast. Maybe I'm wrong, who knows...


I am one of those that has a "dream" tablet/netbook from apple.

Basicially being a college student, it would be great to organize all of my notes I take with a tablet.

Ideally I am looking for:

A big iphone, same basic design, with mac os x, about the size of a spiral notebook, a good stylus, as well as iphone finger recognition, something I can take to all of my classes, take notes, check email, whatever, no keyboard, basicially an iphone the size of a piece of paper, maybe a little smaller.


Then after taking this device with me to all of my classes, and having all of my notes/homework organized I would take it home, putting it on the awesome Docking station that apple designed that turns my big iphone netbook into my computer monitor/desktop with a imac vibe, you could dock it into this stylish focking station that will hold the device sideways, making it a widescreen desktop, along with a bluetooth keyboard and mouse as standard. This was I have an ultra portable for all my notetaking, then once home, I have a nice little desktop. Then when I leave in the morning, unplug the device from its desktop docking station, and its back to being my all in one school device.


So I dont really think of it being a novelty, I actually think there is a good market for this type of device for students.

thoughts?

Sulley Muntari
Oct 23, 2008, 10:46 AM
And THIS makes up for the rest of it (profits):

From Apple, a Luxury Laptop in Lean Times
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/22/AR2008102203178.html

Is the MacBook Overpriced?
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2333116,00.asp

Review: New MacBook puts style over affordability
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i_Vy5BFjDMEnpR1T4zG4dTlkYtFAD93VNFJO1

I could find 5 or 6 more articles echoing this [from Google News: Science/Technology].

:rolleyes:So bloody what, the company is growing faster than the market, I would rather listen to people who have managed to accumulate 25 billion in the bank than some random dudes. I'm guessing Apple will be dead in a 5 years. :rolleyes:

while the mac platform is doing good (and better as the market) at the current weak state of Microsoft it should be _soaring_ high up into the skies
if Windows 7 turns out to be moderately OK like XP was it will be enough to bring them an awful lot of customers
it's all about using the window of opportunity

why is apple doing price reductions on their phones desperately trying to catch more marketshare while on the mac side they actually increase prices ?

world wide Apple is still not in the Top 5 vendorsTheir market is growing, if they try and chase marketshare by dropping prices like crazy, they'll end up losing in the long run, just watch, they will never catch up to Microsoft in terms of marketshare, it's nearly impossible, compared to where Apple was a few years ago, they have come a long way.

IJ Reilly
Oct 23, 2008, 10:54 AM
Has Apple made a mistake with their marketing of the new MacBook? Possibly. I will confess I don't really know if this was the right direction to go in a bad economy. But what I do know is that Apple hasn't made a wrong marketing move in many years -- so for the time being, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

wrxdrunkie
Oct 23, 2008, 06:26 PM
Has Apple made a mistake with their marketing of the new MacBook? Possibly. I will confess I don't really know if this was the right direction to go in a bad economy. But what I do know is that Apple hasn't made a wrong marketing move in many years -- so for the time being, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.


I mean they have been planning these updates for a while, they did not know 2 years ago that the economy was going to be like this today. In addition they are still keeping around the old macbook and its their cheapest model, who knows maybe they originally didnt plan on doing that but did considering the economy. idk just a thought

dba7dba
Oct 23, 2008, 06:35 PM
Apple is not about being first at doing something it's about being the first to do it right.

Have you ever used an HP touchscreen PC, I have, they're horrendous, vista is not a touch based UI, neither is OS X, hence no touch screen.

When full OS X gets Cocoa touch and Apple develops a gesture and touch based UI (i'm thinking 10.7, but maybe it will be such a jump they'll call it OS XI) then you'll see touchscreen macs.

I believe Samsung was the 1st company to come up with the idea and execution of mp3 player I think? I maybe wrong. But I agree, apple gets it right before others do...

mccldwll
Oct 24, 2008, 07:29 AM
I mean they have been planning these updates for a while, they did not know 2 years ago that the economy was going to be like this today. In addition they are still keeping around the old macbook and its their cheapest model, who knows maybe they originally didnt plan on doing that but did considering the economy. idk just a thought

Nah. IMO, always intended to have a $1K computer around for now both to satisfy that price point, as well as to get people in to look at macs. I'll bet that a very large percentage of those who come in for the white macbook end up buying up to the aluminum--bigger HD, more RAM, better graphics, glass trackpad (which probably will be more important when new OS arrives), and very cool pro-looking, functional case. Eventually they'll end up dropping the white ones, and dropping the price on the aluminum ones a bit, but I seriously doubt that will occur in the next 6 months.