RED 25 MP DSLR with ultra high def video

Thank God. Though I love Nikons, and I know there are at least 4 or 5 good brands selling digital cameras, I'm sick of the two-horse race mentality (e.g. "what should I buy Canon or Nikon?"). Not to mention being sick of the one and only paradigm that seems to exist in the DSLR market. The more the better!

If you can do things like pull focus during a take, this may be quite an enabling tool.

Hmm, so does it use Canon or Nikon? I do hope its both!

It is Scarlet -- the new teaser pics show that, and the announcement is in mid November, not the first of the year.

If it takes Canon/Nikon lenses, this will send shockwaves through the market.

Haha, yeah but I wonder how expensive will it be?

Pikemann Urge said:

Thank God. Though I love Nikons, and I know there are at least 4 or 5 good brands selling digital cameras, I'm sick of the two-horse race mentality (e.g. "what should I buy Canon or Nikon?"). Not to mention being sick of the one and only paradigm that seems to exist in the DSLR market. The more the better!

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Hate to burst your bubble, but it's still going to be a 2-horse race mentality after the introduction of this camera on account of the fact that the price of this camera will put it out of range for all but 0.1% of photographers. Its impact in the mainstream will hardly be felt.

I'm not disagreeing on the price point being out of reach for most, but it is supposed to be in the $3000 range. That puts it below Canon/Nikon's flagship offerings and neck and neck with the prosumer lines.

the fact that the price of this camera will put it out of range for all but 0.1% of photographers.

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Like Grimace said it's supposed to be around 3 g's, for a a professional wedding photography/videography studio that's very reasonable. The Red One is running $17,500, which is actually incredible for what you're getting. We'll be looking at the Scarlet closely, especially considering we have the full range of focal lengths of both Nikon & Canon. It would be nice if it can autofocus, but it's not necessary.

I really like the fact that someone high up in the business (Jim) responds directly to people's questions and concerns on their web site's forum.

I'm looking forward to the 13th when we'll get more info.

Grimace said:

I'm not disagreeing on the price point being out of reach for most, but it is supposed to be in the $3000 range. That puts it below Canon/Nikon's flagship offerings and neck and neck with the prosumer lines.

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That's actually cheap. Maybe even to cheap for many uses. If you look at a paraprofessional's gross income to capital ratio many of them really should be using Mamiya or Hasselblad equipment and many are. The higher end equipment gives a technical advantage over those using Nikon/Canon gear

But the real reason RED will not "shake up the market" is that they simply do not build very many cameras. If you want to buy a camera you have the reserve a "production slot" and then wait months while they work off their waiting list. In order to "shake up the market" RED will need to ramp up production and get their gear into Best Buy and Amazon.com

I have actually been involved in a camera design. (I did some software ran the guts of the camera, moved charge off the CCD, sampled the pixels and recorded data.) I'll tell you, cameras are not "rocket science" they are simple. But where it gets real, real hard real fast is designing a factory that can turn out many cameras per day. The factory automation is 10,000 times more complex then a camera. I don't think Red has the factory part down yet.

ChrisA said:

That's actually cheap. Maybe even to cheap for many uses. If you look at a paraprofessional's gross income to capital ratio many of them really should be using Mamiya or Hasselblad equipment and many are. The higher end equipment gives a technical advantage over those using Nikon/Canon gear

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What sort of daft reasoning is that? Photographers buy equipment that does the best job for their needs. An event photographer that covers motorsport may make more money than a product photographer, but this does not mean the sports photographer has to use a Hasselblad and the food photographer a Canon. More megapixels are not a technological advantage compared to fast focussing, long lens with fast apertures and 6 fps when doing photojournalism or sports. Papparazzi can also make silly money, do you think they should all buy a 60mp PhaseOne back?

But the real reason RED will not "shake up the market" is that they simply do not build very many cameras. If you want to buy a camera you have the reserve a "production slot" and then wait months while they work off their waiting list. In order to "shake up the market" RED will need to ramp up production and get their gear into Best Buy and Amazon.com

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Simply by introducing a better product they will shake up the market as has already happened with their video kit. Just because they may not produce millions in their first year is actually not that important. This also may be why Canon and Nikon have suddenly added video to their cameras as they are no doubt well aware of RED's intentions and there's been no technical reason before as to why it hadn't happened earlier.

I have actually been involved in a camera design. (I did some software ran the guts of the camera, moved charge off the CCD, sampled the pixels and recorded data.) I'll tell you, cameras are not "rocket science" they are simple. But where it gets real, real hard real fast is designing a factory that can turn out many cameras per day. The factory automation is 10,000 times more complex then a camera. I don't think Red has the factory part down yet.

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But RED is very different from most start ups as the owner is already stupidly rich from another manufacturing business. So this will be less of a hurdle as RED has very deep pockets and is far more interested in producing good products than simply making money, plus if they design the product well it may be simpler than conventional products for RED to produce.

ChrisA said:

But the real reason RED will not "shake up the market" is that they simply do not build very many cameras. If you want to buy a camera you have the reserve a "production slot" and then wait months while they work off their waiting list. In order to "shake up the market" RED will need to ramp up production and get their gear into Best Buy and Amazon.com

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From RED's website:
There will be no reservation system for Scarlet; the day it is introduced is the day you can buy yours. Planned introduction is early 2009.

So I wonder which manufacturer is going to build their camera? and how much will it cost? So far RED products is $$$$

$1000 price point

ajpl said:

Simply by introducing a better product they will shake up the market as has already happened with their video kit. Just because they may not produce millions in their first year is actually not that important. This also may be why Canon and Nikon have suddenly added video to their cameras as they are no doubt well aware of RED's intentions and there's been no technical reason before as to why it hadn't happened earlier.

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I can't see myself ever spending $1000+ on a camera as a hobbyist. I wonder if RED is considering going into this territory in the next couple years. The point made about manufacturing is a good one.

Even so, as you say, this will definitely push Canon and Nikon. What has two thumbs and loves competition? "This Guy".

The next 2 years are going to be veerryy veerryy interesting for all of us.

Cheers,

DCBass

DCBass said:

I can't see myself ever spending $1000+ on a camera as a hobbyist. I wonder if RED is considering going into this territory in the next couple years.

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The margins suck at that price point compared to the prosumer and professional price points. If you want to compete at the low end, you also need a big dealer/distribution network. I wouldn't hold my breath, especially if they're going to be focusing on the pro/prosumer market to start with.

wheelhot said:

So I wonder which manufacturer is going to build their camera? and how much will it cost? So far RED products is $$$$

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RED products are low $$$$$ instead of $$$$$$.

RED products are low $$$$$ instead of $$$$$$.

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Haha, still a lot of $$$$$

Just how much impact has RED actually had on the consumer video market? I mean that as an honest question.

Other than with a certain group of fanboys (not really meant perjoratively this time), I haven't noticed much about it. Usually if a product is "disruptive", those of us that are a little ways outside of the market are at least aware that it's happening - but the only place I ever hear about RED is camera forums, and it's at about the same volume as other stuff I consider interesting but somewhat minor news (e.g. the announcement of the micro 4/3 camera format).

Westside guy said:

Just how much impact has RED actually had on the consumer video market? I mean that as an honest question.

Other than with a certain group of fanboys (not really meant perjoratively this time), I haven't noticed much about it. Usually if a product is "disruptive", those of us that are a little ways outside of the market are at least aware that it's happening - but the only place I ever hear about RED is camera forums, and it's at about the same volume as other stuff I consider interesting but somewhat minor news (e.g. the announcement of the micro 4/3 camera format).

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Disruptive, not in sales, but in competition for features/R&D against Canon/Nikon. If RED can put better than 1080p video in a still camera, Nikon and Canon will need to respond in some way. It is no longer a two company race.

Westside guy said:

Just how much impact has RED actually had on the consumer video market? I mean that as an honest question.

Other than with a certain group of fanboys (not really meant perjoratively this time), I haven't noticed much about it. Usually if a product is "disruptive", those of us that are a little ways outside of the market are at least aware that it's happening - but the only place I ever hear about RED is camera forums, and it's at about the same volume as other stuff I consider interesting but somewhat minor news (e.g. the announcement of the micro 4/3 camera format).

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RED ONE is not a consumer video camera. It is a disruptive PRO cinema camera.

Grimace said:

Disruptive, not in sales, but in competition for features/R&D against Canon/Nikon. If RED can put better than 1080p video in a still camera, Nikon and Canon will need to respond in some way. It is no longer a two company race.

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I guess I don't buy this argument. If it's not disruptive in sales, neither Nikon nor Canon will feel obligated to respond - why would they?

cube said:

RED ONE is not a consumer video camera. It is a disruptive PRO cinema camera.

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Okay, gotcha. But then I don't think it's a given they'll have any significant impact in the consumer dSLR market.

BTW I'm not arguing this is anything but a good thing. More competition is better, and leads to better products for all of us.

This is the updated scarlet right? I was ready to get one when it came out then RED said they were going to re-think some things and get back to us.

this is different from scarlet. scarlet's a small form-factor professional video camcorder.