New G5 today? [February 10]

[Torajima]

Yesterday the Apple Store began selling "refurbished" Dual 1.8 G5's for the low, low, price of $1995.

I called Apple to order one, but they had already sold out. They tried to offer me a new single processor unit for the same price... no thanks! :)

Yesterday afternoon, Smalldog started selling "refurbished" G5's for the first time. They are supposed to receive a large shipment in about a week.

So Apple is clearing their inventory... the new G5's have got to be coming soon!

[.a]

yeah - sure ...
.a

[KC9AIC]

we can only hope.

[~Shard~]

I'm all for PM updates, but I have NEVER put any stock in the refurb store as an accurate indicator of imminent updates. Still, it would be nice to see those 3 GH\z PMs sometime soon!

[Dont Hurt Me]

:D Hah! I think they have gotten use to Motorola all these years of doing nothing. I have concluded if they do nothing so will me and my wallet. Still waiting for the G5 Imac like millions of others. Motorola has taught me patience,patience and more patience.:eek:

[Mr. Anderson]

That would be nice, and it is a Tuesday, but there have been zero rumors about a Feb 10th roll out of new PM....

For all of Apple secrecy, its very rare that anything gets by with out some sort of leak.

D

[Torajima]

Originally posted by ~Shard~
I'm all for PM updates, but I have NEVER put any stock in the refurb store as an accurate indicator of imminent updates. Still, it would be nice to see those 3 GH\z PMs sometime soon!

It's not that they were on the refurb store... it's the massive price drop. Their refurb prices on G5's dropped two or three hundred since last week.

Something's gotta be up...

[Mr. Anderson]

Originally posted by Torajima
Something's gotta be up...

That's the thing, something's gotta be for weeks now....its just a matter of time and all the current rumors say March (which totally sucks). I'd love to see it sooner.

D

[Torajima]

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
:D Hah! I think they have gotten use to Motorola all these years of doing nothing. I have concluded if they do nothing so will me and my wallet. Still waiting for the G5 Imac like millions of others. Motorola has taught me patience,patience and more patience.:eek:

G5 iMac? I'd like to see it, but I don't expect it anytime soon. Apple will want to do the Powerbooks first. Can't have a "consumer" machine being more powerful than a "pro" machine...

[Dont Hurt Me]

I think apple still has a ways to go to catch up with the Intel world,none of the G4s can come close and only the dual G5s are really on equal terms with current software and that is still 2 cpu's vs 1 Intel. same old story the best Software on the worst Hardware(excluding dual G5s)

[~Shard~]

Originally posted by Torajima
G5 iMac? I'd like to see it, but I don't expect it anytime soon. Apple will want to do the Powerbooks first. Can't have a "consumer" machine being more powerful than a "pro" machine...

Uh-oh - I can sense this blowing up into a big G5 iMac vs. G5 PB debate! I've seen it before on so many other threads, and it's not pretty... ;)

[wrldwzrd89]

All these rumors regarding PowerMac G5 updates have me curious. If I had waited until today to get a PowerMac (assuming that the PowerMacs are in fact updated today) instead of getting an iMac 17" (1.25 GHz, 512 MB RAM, 80 GB HD), how much would I have gained in performance? Let's assume that I would have bought the mid-range or top-of-the-line PowerMac (both dual-processor). Any ideas?

By the way, I'm looking forward to PowerMac updates as much as anyone else here, except I'm not interested in a purchase right now.

[Dont Hurt Me]

lets just say they dont compare G4 machines with anything, where you have lots of comparisons with G5s vs the dark side running all kinds of apps. I love the looks of imac and i get a kick reading articles about them. never do they show one bench, they talk about big and bigger screens and the great software bundle but never ever focus on that 1 little important item called the cpu. wonder why?

[numediaman]

The answer to the question is always the same . . . tomorrow ("next week" works, too).

[.a]

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
lets just say they dont compare G4 machines with anything ... they talk about big and bigger screens and the great software bundle but never ever focus on that 1 little important item called the cpu. wonder why?

because they are slow ... (though fast enough for a lot of tasks).

comparing an imac 1ghz with my *4years* old dual g4 450mhz:

imac 1ghz average 90 points @ xbench
my pmac dual 450mhz 75 points @ xbench

and inbetween there are FOUR YEARS ... time to make some progess?
.a

btw: i would love to have an 17" imac :) just for browsing the internet and doing some word and excel!

[cubist]

Hey DHM, we all know you want a G5 iMac (I want one too!), but there's no point in us continually saying that. Anyway this thread is about the G5 tower.

No question Apple is clearing old stock. I suspect there is a lot of old stock to clear, though, and it could take a long time.

You know when folks start using those IBM compilers we are going to see the G5 look a lot better than those Intel processors.

[Dont Hurt Me]

well it doesnt look like any new G5 towers today though the day is young and in reference to your comment cubist this was my response to wrldwzrd89 asking about performance difference from his 1.25 imac and G5 towers. he would gain a lot from a G5 tower but i wasnt so blunt. As you have stated when G5 software comes on line those G5s will start to strut their stuff.

[Pismo]

Originally posted by Mr. Anderson
That would be nice, and it is a Tuesday, but there have been zero rumors about a Feb 10th roll out of new PM....

For all of Apple secrecy, its very rare that anything gets by with out some sort of leak.

D

No one saw the G4 iBooks coming when they were released.

[Torajima]

Originally posted by wrldwzrd89
All these rumors regarding PowerMac G5 updates have me curious. If I had waited until today to get a PowerMac (assuming that the PowerMacs are in fact updated today) instead of getting an iMac 17" (1.25 GHz, 512 MB RAM, 80 GB HD), how much would I have gained in performance? Let's assume that I would have bought the mid-range or top-of-the-line PowerMac (both dual-processor). Any ideas?


Well, the current Dual processor machines are about 4 times faster than your imac.

And they are 30 to 40 times faster than my old G3! This is with real world testing... color correcting 5 minutes of footage on my dual G5 takes about 5 minutes. Same clip takes 3 hours on my G3! :eek:

[noel4r]

I say to that speculation: big fat NO!

[Bilba]

This is getting harder and harder.....
I had a really good vibe regarding updates today, but ...

[takao]

have to agree with most,
chance of PM upgrades today: very very slim

it would be a very big surprise if there were some updates today
everyone expected them for MWSF,mac 20th anniversary,superbowl.. just a casual tuesday

apple and ibm know what they are doing... and with intel's unimpressing new processors there is big room for surprises this year ...the mhz myth is fading away

[Mr. Anderson]

Originally posted by Pismo
No one saw the G4 iBooks coming when they were released.

not entirely true, but in my statement above I didn't say they *awlays* had rumors precede the release, I said it was very rare...

Regardless, it looks like its not going to happen today....

D

[gigapower]

Well yesterday new PMs were shipping in 1-3 days and now today they are shipping in 3-5 days. Its gotta be soon!

[virividox]

isnt this waiting game fun

[Mr. Anderson]

Originally posted by virividox
isnt this waiting game fun

I've banned members for less :p :D

You know, I was thinking that once Apple went with IBM we'd be seeing quicker updates, but the way this is going its feeling just like Motorola all over again....

D

[Bilba]

For luck, I have been sleeping with my apple developer tshirt for 3 days now . I know it stinks already, but so does having no updates.

Every day I look at my checking account balance, and I see this lump sum waiting to drop.

soon soon soon

[Dont Hurt Me]

Originally posted by Mr. Anderson
I've banned members for less :p :D

You know, I was thinking that once Apple went with IBM we'd be seeing quicker updates, but the way this is going its feeling just like Motorola all over again....

D I really think that Apple bought boatloads of G4s and until they are all gone we wont see much. they cant really have G5 towers just running away from everything they make can they? I think it would be very interesting to see those motorola contracts just as it would be very interesting to see how many 970s IBM can produce on a monthly basis.

[spencecb]

You have to give Apple/IBM some credit...and plus, maybe they are just gonna wait and make the jump to dual 3.0GHz....that would be an amazing jump in performance from one rev. to another.

[aswitcher]

Well Tuesday 8 am PST and still the pepsi add dominates the Apple Store... oh well not looking promising... maybe next week...:rolleyes:

[wrldwzrd89]

Originally posted by Torajima
Well, the current Dual processor machines are about 4 times faster than your imac.

And they are 30 to 40 times faster than my old G3! This is with real world testing... color correcting 5 minutes of footage on my dual G5 takes about 5 minutes. Same clip takes 3 hours on my G3! :eek:

Wow! Well I'm certainly impressed if this is true. I think I might just get a PowerMac G5 (or possibly G6) as my next computer in 2007. Surely I'll be better able to afford one by then since I might be working instead of going to college.

[Torajima]

Well the Apple Store is still up... I guess I was wrong. Maybe next week!?

:D

[wrldwzrd89]

Originally posted by Torajima
Well the Apple Store is still up... I guess I was wrong. Maybe next week!?

:D

If I were you, I'd check again at 9:00 AM Pacific Time, which was about 15 minutes away when I posted this. 9:00 AM PT is a common time for Apple announcements and updates.

[Bilba]

Do not say that...hopes are high again.
It is amazing how little it takes.

[wrldwzrd89]

Hey Bilba, the purpose of my post was mainly to inform, not to get people's hopes up. I understand completely why people's hopes might go up on such a post, though.

[Edot]

Originally posted by Mr. Anderson
I've banned members for less :p :D

You know, I was thinking that once Apple went with IBM we'd be seeing quicker updates, but the way this is going its feeling just like Motorola all over again....

D

I have to believe that the update cycles will remain the same due to consumer/business upgrade cycles. However, the speed bumps should be significantly higher than Moto could ever produce in 6 months.

[wdlove]

So Mr. Anderson, of your prediction for a G5 update in March. Will it be at FOSE - Washington DC March 23 - 25 or BioIT World Boston March 30 - April 1st?

[noel4r]

Originally posted by Mr. Anderson
I've banned members for less :p :D

You know, I was thinking that once Apple went with IBM we'd be seeing quicker updates, but the way this is going its feeling just like Motorola all over again....

D

you're absolutely right, no speed bumps since the G5 release (8 months ago?). heck, maybe they shoulda gone w/ Intel...

[invaLPsion]

I am getting extremely angry with Apple. They are letting all their loyal computer buyers down by focusing on music instead.

Steve Jobs talked about how much salespersons ruined apple in the early-mid 90s, but it seems to me that he certainly isn't doing much innovating right now...:o

[pjkelnhofer]

Originally posted by Edot
I have to believe that the update cycles will remain the same due to consumer/business upgrade cycles. However, the speed bumps should be significantly higher than Moto could ever produce in 6 months.

But so far there has been no speed bump in the PowerMac. The only update has been the 1.8 going from a single to dual. So basically from June to February and a 0% increase that is not very good.

The Moto part of the line is even less unimpressive:
eMac 08/02 - 800 MHz
eMac Today - 1 GHz
Increase 25%
Time - 17 Months

PowerBook 11/02 - 1 GHz
PowerBook Today - 1.33 GHz
Increase 33%
Time - 14 Months

iMac 07/02 - 800 MHz
iMac Today - 1.25 MHz
Increase 53%
Time 18 Months

Only the iBook has had a major update since the intro on the G5's.

Whatever happened to Moore's Law? (If it applied to Apple the PB should be at 1.8 GHz, the eMac and the iMac at 1.6 GHz). If the G5 is the future then Apple is still living in the past.

[pjkelnhofer]

Originally posted by invaLPsion
I am getting extremely angry with Apple. They are letting all their loyal computer buyers down by focusing on music instead.

Steve Jobs talked about how much salespersons ruined apple in the early-mid 90s, but it seems to me that he certainly isn't doing much innovating right now...:o

I am glad that you wrote this. I made the same comment about a month ago (when the mini was the only major intro at MWSF). I really feel that the low-end Mac users are being forgotten for the PC owning iPod users.

Just my opinion.

[jrv3034]

Originally posted by pjkelnhofer
I am glad that you wrote this. I made the same comment about a month ago (when the mini was the only major intro at MWSF). I really feel that the low-end Mac users are being forgotten for the PC owning iPod users.

Just my opinion.

Agreed. They seem poised to do great things with the G5 chip, but their focus is music, music, music.

The iPod is great. I saw 4 people in the same subway car in NYC with iPods yesterday. Pretty impressive. And the ads are great, and the mindshare is huge. But Apple is a computer company. Where are the ads showing OS X? Where are the ads for the 20"iMac, or iBooks?

I understand, iPods make money, and Apple needs it. But they really should update their consumer line soon, or they'll see massive sales decline. The G5 Power Macs are their only competitive computers right now. Now if they get updated to 2.5GHz, add a single 1.6 or 1.8 G5 to a new iMac, and show the power of Panther on TV ads, then we'll be on the right track.

[Edot]

Originally posted by noel4r
you're absolutely right, no speed bumps since the G5 release (8 months ago?). heck, maybe they shoulda gone w/ Intel...

The G5 was not shipping until Sept. We are in the 6th month away from the last update. This is normal. I think, and have thought this since November, that we will not see updates until Feb/March because that is about 6 months between products. I would not call June 23, 2003 the release of the G5. It was announced, but not released until Sept.

[Opteron]

Originally posted by Mr. Anderson
[B]I've banned members for less :p :DB]

hmm.

[Opteron]

Originally posted by noel4r
you're absolutely right, no speed bumps since the G5 release (8 months ago?). heck, maybe they shoulda gone w/ Intel...

Intel hasen't done much either remember, they're stalled @ 3.2GHz P4EE, which was released just to spite the release of the AMD64FX. which has been stuck @ 2.2GHz.

Prescott was suppose to be released in January, like many things it was a no show.

My Guess, the new BTX motherboard format is set for release arround late april, early may. With the new PCI Express graphics standard (not PCI-X,) plus many other improved features, including better air flow, etc... Once this is done we will see leaps and bounds of improvement on the x86 side. As for Apple they'll just have to play catch up or set the market early.

[Lancetx]

Originally posted by pjkelnhofer
Whatever happened to Moore's Law? (If it applied to Apple the PB should be at 1.8 GHz, the eMac and the iMac at 1.6 GHz). If the G5 is the future then Apple is still living in the past.

As was mentioned, it's not like Intel is doing any better, in fact it's been even worse over there. In the last 15 months or so, the top speed desktop P4 has only gone from 3.06GHz to 3.4GHz (and the 3.4GHz chips are in very limited supply currently) which is only an increase of about 11%. Apple has certainly done much better than that over the last 15 months.

[Mav451]

You're kinda missing the point with Intel...

The 3.06P4's ran on a measly 533FSB (or quad pumped 133mhz) -- these 533 FSB P4's ranged from the 2.4 to the 3.06.

The change from 533 to 800 fsb is the very reason Intel was able to take back the crown from AMD (back then AMD was still paper launching the 2700 and 2800+, which easily matched the 2.6Ghz Pentium 4 Bs, but were beaten marginally by the 2.8Ghz P4-Bs.

Until AMD released the athlon 64, even the 3200+ could only beat/match with the 3.0ghz P4C with its monstrous 800fsb. The 3.2 P4 or a 3.0-3.3ghz OCed Pentium 2.4C (the year 2003's equivalent of AMD's overclocking beast 1700+) were the clear performance leaders. By hitting 3.0Ghz or more with those overclocked Pentium 4 C's, the FSB of the overclocked (and stable on most 875 chipsets, most notably either the IC7 or Asus's P4800) was either 1000fsb or MORE!

(reference: http://www.cluboverclocker.com/reviews/cpu/intel/p4/2.4c/4.htm)

So while stock 3.0P4Cs were already matching the aging 3200+ bartons, the overclocked 2.4Cs were running all over the AMD chips.

I think perhaps this is some proof that megahertz, and more likely a combination of cache/FSB will big bigger factors than simply the megahertz game...I'm not sure Moore's Law can be applied at all anymore.

[aswitcher]

Originally posted by pjkelnhofer
I am glad that you wrote this. I made the same comment about a month ago (when the mini was the only major intro at MWSF). I really feel that the low-end Mac users are being forgotten for the PC owning iPod users.

Just my opinion.

Yep...and their Q10 report just out reminds us again how poorly the iMac and eMac are...

[pjkelnhofer]

Originally posted by Lancetx
As was mentioned, it's not like Intel is doing any better, in fact it's been even worse over there. In the last 15 months or so, the top speed desktop P4 has only gone from 3.06GHz to 3.4GHz (and the 3.4GHz chips are in very limited supply currently) which is only an increase of about 11%. Apple has certainly done much better than that over the last 15 months.

Some of it is real and some is just perception. Right now, I am talking about how badly the low-end Mac need to be update. Everything but the PowerMac still comes with 1 GHz G4's. Apple first introduced a computer with a 1 GHz G4 two years ago. I know that technically they are not the same processors, but it would be hard to find evidence of that on Apple's website. There is even evidence that Apple intentially clocks down the current chips (http://www.lbodnar.dsl.pipex.com/eMac/eMac-upgrade.html) to keep their product structure intact. I know the is a common practice in the chip making world, but Apple even killed the clones because other companies wanted to release new technology too quickly for Apple to keep up. Or at least in such a way that it would have seriously hurt Apple bottom line.

Heck the G4 family has been around for nearly five years. Apple probably could have done a much better job naming the progressions of the G4 to keep the perception from being that it is outdated technology.

Right now, I think people are a lot more upset about the progession of the "low-end" Mac then they are about the G5's.

I don't believe that Apple will release G5 PowerBooks/iMacs/etc. as soon as they can solve the heat/form factor/etc. problem. On my cynical days, I think they will do it when the can't get anymore money from the G4 versions of it. On my more optimistic days I just think that have stores of Moto G4's hanging around and don't want to through them in the trash (which sadly in 2005 is where the belong).

[Opteron]

Originally posted by Mav451
You're kinda missing the point with Intel...

The 3.06P4's ran on a measly 533FSB (or quad pumped 133mhz) -- these 533 FSB P4's ranged from the 2.4 to the 3.06.


on a measly 533FSB (133Quad pumped):confused:

Don't foget that the G4 has hit a BRICK wall @ 167MHz, and at this point can't be double pumped. The emac and ibook are still @ 133MHz.

The fastest true FSB on the x86 side of the Fence is the 400MHz on the Opterons and 64 FX's. However IBM has managed to have the G5's FSB set @ half the clock speed.

All we need now is RAM to keep up.
Bring back RD RAM@1066HHz or higher.

[Mav451]

hehe Opteron, i say measly because the 800fsb puts the 533fsb to shame. The difference between 133fsb x 4 and 200fsb x 4 is huge.

Kind of the same way the 400fsb bartons put the original (hotter running) 266fsb Palominos to shame.

I guess its more of a matter of perspective than anything else. Considering I upgraded from a 200fsb Thunderbird to my current setup (388fsb, 800mhz compared to 2.231ghz); i'd say perspective can make a lot of difference in these comparisons.

[Opteron]

Originally posted by Mav451
i'd say perspective can make a lot of difference in these comparisons.

Others have used the perspective argument.

Most notabley Ben Kenobi (Obi Wan Kenobi)

But the real issuse is that the G4 is stuck @ 167MHz, while the pro model (G5) is at 1000Mhz. And apple "seems" to have to much pride (or one hell of a carppy a contract with Moto) to update the rest of the line.

[CmdrLaForge]

Originally posted by aswitcher
Well Tuesday 8 am PST and still the pepsi add dominates the Apple Store... oh well not looking promising... maybe next week...:rolleyes:

I really thought that they make more out of it. I tought it is much better to have a great new consumer product on the main page when all the people looking for iTunes are coming to the store. Just my two marketing cents

[Mav451]

Well let me say this. You remember how AMD seemed to have its back against the wall right when the 2.53Ghz P4 B (533fsb) was released?

AMD didn't really answer until a few months later with the 2400+/2600+. Both of these were part of the transistion from 266 fsb to 333fsb. The 2600+ however was the one that offered both 266/333fsb models, the 333fsb model running slightly slower in terms of raw clock speed, but performance 3-6% higher nonetheless.

Then when the 2.8ghz Pentium 4 (533fsb still) came out, AMD again had to resort to its paper launched 2800+, which actually was competitive in a several applications (more notably games of course). 333fsb held well against 533 fsb. Later on though, the 800fsb vs. 400fsb argument was a moot one, the P4C processor just performed alot better--this is the reason the 3200+ is only competitive with the 3.0 Pentium 4 C model, and not even close to the 3.2 P4C (fortunately pricing was between the 3.0 and 3.2 P4C).

It wasn't until the Athlon 64 that a true "3200+" processor was released.

*by the way, what did Obi Wan say about perspective? I'm really interested.

[Opteron]

After soume searching through the scripts of "THe Empire Strikes Back" and "Return of the Jedi" I foud what I was looking for.

BEN
You father was seduced by the dark side of
the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker
and became Darth Vader. When that happened,
the good man who was your father was
destroyed. So what I have told you was
true... from a certain point of view.

LUKE (turning away, derisive)
A certain point of view!

BEN
Luke, you're going to find that many of the
truths we cling to depend greatly on our own
point of view.

While he uses 'point of veiw' I dare say perspective could easily be substiuted.

[Mav451]

hahah, i guess that's the definition of opinion isn't i suppose isn't it.