should i buy 15inch iMac? [Archive]

x86isslow

Feb 11, 2004, 05:10 PM

in 99, my dad bought an acer (600mhz p3).

ever since then, we've had nothing but trouble with it, and i've tried to convince my dad to leave windows.

fast-forward to today- said computer has been infected with some variant of SoBig :(

so finally, he's decided to take the plunge, but he can only afford to spend about 1500.

we're looking at buying a 15in iMac (1300) and Office (150 for student) so that puts us at about budget.. with our computer infecting with a virus we cant seem to get rid off, would the iMac be a good buy now?

any thoughts(buy now or wait) and recommendations(how much ram) welcome.

thanks,
V.

edit: my dad would like to edit home movies (burn dvds?)
the computer we have now cannot play music, run word and allow us to surf the web at the same time. any future computer would need to resolve that situation.
our monitor is on its last legs, and will not be usable with a new tower.

as for edu pricing, the apple website says the following:

Who is Eligible To Purchase
The following education individuals are eligible to purchase through the Apple Store for Education individuals:

* Employee of public or private K-12 institutions in the United States
* School Board members who are currently serving as elected or appointed members
* PTA or PTO executives currently serving as elected or appointed officers
* Qualified homeschools
* Employee of a public or private, profit or non-profit preschool

thanks again, keep suggestions coming,
V

bpd115

Feb 11, 2004, 05:28 PM

well, since you're getting office student edition, I'd assume you can get the student discount on hardware.

For 1599, you can get a 1.6 G5 or even a Dual G4 Powermac from somewhere like smalldog.com.

or Wait until the Refurb section of the Apple store restocks the 1.6 G5s which I think were going for $1399.

virividox

Feb 11, 2004, 05:44 PM

problem with getting a tower is you still need an external monitor.

well seeing as you are on a budget, i would go for the emac, its not as pretty as the emac but, some of its revisions have better specs plus its 17 inch crt.

x86isslow

Feb 11, 2004, 05:55 PM

Originally posted by bpd115
well, since you're getting office student edition, I'd assume you can get the student discount on hardware.

well, i am in high school, so i can't get a edu discount on hardware... i heard, however, that software can be had w/ student discount at academic superstore

Dino679

Feb 11, 2004, 06:16 PM

Hi, I paid $1299 brand new for my 17" iMac 1ghz, with superdrive AND panther from microcenter...if you have one local to you its deff worth the trip...thier web site doesnt have the same deal as the store but you go there www.microcenter.com and do a store locator and call them , good luck...Dino

Koodauw

Feb 11, 2004, 06:47 PM

I would say the 15'' iMac would be great for your dad. I just convinced my dad to do the same. He doesn't do anything more than websurfing, email, and he now buys music from the iTMS. The iMac was a great fit for him, esp the adjustable LCD. He really likes that. Anyways, if you are ordering from Apple I would recemend upgrading the memory to 512MB by using the BTO. It will keep your memory expansion slot open for fute upgrades, and extend your new computers like. Good Luck either way you go....

spacepower

Feb 11, 2004, 07:22 PM

I am not 100% sure, but it seems that you may be eligible for a hardware discount. Go to Apple's online store, and click the education button. Then under the shop for yourself column, click k-12. then search for your school.

If you can't find your school, then call "The Apple Store for Education Individuals at 1-800-MY-APPLE"

Good Luck

bpd115

Feb 11, 2004, 11:02 PM

Yes, Apple is pretty good with EDU discounts and you shouldn't have a problem getting a hardware discount.

unixkid

Feb 11, 2004, 11:40 PM

First of all DONT buy office, goto OpenOffice.org (http://www.openoffice.org) its free and its open source! U should get the eMac it has a bigger screen and u can get it with a 160gb HD 1gb of ram and airport extreme for $1,398. but u have to sacrifice ur video card performance for all of that with a crapy ati 7500.If u plan on gaming and such get the low end G5 with out a dvd-r and a modem then get a least 512mb or ram. If thats too much lower the ram and buy more latter.

Opteron

Feb 12, 2004, 12:18 AM

Originally posted by bpd115
well, since you're getting office student edition, I'd assume you can get the student discount on hardware.

For 1599, you can get a 1.6 G5 or even a Dual G4 Powermac from somewhere like smalldog.com.

or Wait until the Refurb section of the Apple store restocks the 1.6 G5s which I think were going for $1399.

Couldn't agree more. The iMac is a SUB PAR Machine, and so is the eMac.

virividox
He already has a screen so your point about needing an external monitor is void.

Personally I would buy a custom built AMD based system (a 2500+ or 2800+ or somewhere inbetween), R9800, 1GB DDR333, SATA HDD... The list goes on. But hey that's just me, It's your moneny and don't forget it.

Gyroscope

Feb 12, 2004, 01:36 AM

Opteron

Feb 12, 2004, 02:16 AM

My pont was this, The iMac is not worth the effort, and neither is the emac.

paulypants

Feb 12, 2004, 02:28 AM

My pont was this, The iMac is not worth the effort, and neither is the emac.

I understand what your trying to say but I don't agree in this case

unless the father is going to be doing heavy graphics, video, or music editing than the eMac or iMac will be more than enough for his needs, definately a huge step up from an acer p3

also would be def worth putting in as much ram as you can, at least 512

by the way you can order a mac at student discount from the online apple store--no id required for verification

Superdrive

Feb 12, 2004, 03:33 AM

Originally posted by Opteron
Couldn't agree more. The iMac is a SUB PAR Machine, and so is the eMac.

Says who? I use an 15" iMac 800 and my GF uses a eMac 700. We both have no trouble doing what any normal user does. I can run Photoshop CS, iMovie, iDVD, Safari, iChat AV and all with out any trouble. Granted, there has been some RAM additions, but for normal use, these machines are BEYOND par.

Superdrive

tdhurst

Feb 12, 2004, 03:54 AM

Originally posted by Opteron
Couldn't agree more. The iMac is a SUB PAR Machine, and so is the eMac.

Personally I would buy a custom built AMD based system (a 2500+ or 2800+ or somewhere inbetween), R9800, 1GB DDR333, SATA HDD... The list goes on. But hey that's just me, It's your moneny and don't forget it.

Um, he obviously wants a Mac, dude. Get off the macrumors site if you don't like macs...

x86isslow

Feb 12, 2004, 08:28 AM

Originally posted by Opteron
Couldn't agree more. The iMac is a SUB PAR Machine, and so is the eMac.

virividox
He already has a screen so your point about needing an external monitor is void.

Personally I would buy a custom built AMD based system (a 2500+ or 2800+ or somewhere inbetween), R9800, 1GB DDR333, SATA HDD... The list goes on. But hey that's just me, It's your moneny and don't forget it.

thing is, i am a senior in high school, so whatever computer my dad decides to buy, i have to live with (and if its a winpc, troubleshoot) for at least the next 6 months.

while we do have a external monitor right now, it has reached the end of its life... it is a sony trinitron 19", (was nice at one point) but now, the screen has become visibly darker even with brightness settings maxxed out. so we're in the market for aio, since we need to chuck this. (i should have added this in at the beginning)

as for pro apps, no need. the most my dad wants to do is edit home movies
he's avid enough about it that he tried it on our acer!

will a base model imac/ or superdrive emac be able to play music while someone surfs the web, with word open? our computer cant seem to do this.

thanks,
V

27407

Feb 12, 2004, 08:43 AM

Absolutely you can use word and play music and surf the web. Hell you can probably burn a cd or use iMovie as well.
The iMac sounds perfect for what you are looking for. Beautiful machine, performance is great for what you are looking for. Hope you enjoy it!

A

johnnyjibbs

Feb 12, 2004, 09:30 AM

OS X plus lots of RAM will enable you to run many programs at once. I have 768MB on my 1GHz PowerBook (same speed as 15" iMac or eMac) and I can run 10 programs at once with no problem whatsoever (more if I wanted to).

The iMac and the eMac are fine. Granted, they aren't going to be the most powerful desktop computer but they are easily fast enough for the vast majority of consumer uses (scrap that, ALL uses). Your dad is unlikely to be rendering complex computer animation so he does not need a G5. And the iMac/eMac are perfectly good at video editing, if you decide to have a play around with that.

One thing though, updates could be on the way soon as they haven't been updated for a while (although they could be anytime from next week to April or May).

Chaszmyr

Feb 12, 2004, 09:50 AM

Personally I wouldnt buy a 15'' imac because the 17'' one is so much nicer... But if you can't afford a 17'' that might just not be an option.

flyfish29

Feb 12, 2004, 10:03 AM

Originally posted by x86isslow
so finally, he's decided to take the plunge, but he can only afford to spend about 1500.

we're looking at buying a 15in iMac (1300) and Office (150 for student) so that puts us at about budget.. with our computer infecting with a virus we cant seem to get rid off, would the iMac be a good buy now?

I would buy a refurbished iMac with a 17" screen for the money...sometimes you have to wait a month or so for them to show up on the deals page on apple.com apple store site. Yeah, educatioin site can have som egreat deals on new...dont know if refurbs are cheaper on ed, but I don't think so.

However, what is he going to be doing with the computer? This is the most important thing to consider when buying a computer.

flyfish29

Feb 12, 2004, 10:06 AM

Originally posted by bpd115
well, since you're getting office student edition, I'd assume you can get the student discount on hardware.

For 1599, you can get a 1.6 G5 or even a Dual G4 Powermac from somewhere like smalldog.com.

or Wait until the Refurb section of the Apple store restocks the 1.6 G5s which I think were going for $1399.

He would need a monitor too...and he might want software like Quicken (which only comes with ibooks, iMacs, and eMacs (I think emacs?)

There is other software that is free with emacs including apple works which is a simple word that is fine for regular word processing if that is all he is doing...it can translate basic word PC documents to read them as well, but it is only free on the computers I listed above. Also, fax software, quicken as i listed above, as well as some games (does he like Tony Hawk 4?- it's free too), etc. are free on the computers above. Again, what is he going to do with it?

flyfish29

Feb 12, 2004, 10:13 AM

Originally posted by Opteron
Couldn't agree more. The iMac is a SUB PAR Machine, and so is the eMac.

Get the facts right! Unless you are playing hardcore games, lots and lots of video editing, or photoshop/illustrator, you are wasting money on your computer.....it is for his dad! He mostdoesn't likely need a tower...he was using an ACER....anything is a step up...way up.

flyfish29

Feb 12, 2004, 10:17 AM

Originally posted by x86isslow
as for pro apps, no need. the most my dad wants to do is edit home movies
he's avid enough about it that he tried it on our acer!

will a base model imac/ or superdrive emac be able to play music while someone surfs the web, with word open? our computer cant seem to do this.

thanks,
V

My refurb iMac 17" with only 256 right now( getting 512 toomorrow):D does all these things fine! I have burned many DVD's to my superdrive...both picture and movies and have had no complaints...sure I would love to save a few minutes working with my movies, but I don't do it enought to warrent another grand+ to do so, especially since I use the free software that comes on iMacs and eMacs...apple works, quicken, etc.

Krizoitz

Feb 12, 2004, 11:56 AM

Originally posted by unixkid
First of all DONT buy office, goto OpenOffice.org (http://www.openoffice.org) its free and its open source! U should get the eMac it has a bigger screen and u can get it with a 160gb HD 1gb of ram and airport extreme for $1,398. but u have to sacrifice ur video card performance for all of that with a crapy ati 7500.If u plan on gaming and such get the low end G5 with out a dvd-r and a modem then get a least 512mb or ram. If thats too much lower the ram and buy more latter.

First of all OpenOffice isn't nearlly as easy to use for the average person as Office X. While open source software has its place, its not for the average consumer.

Second, I would think that since he wants to do video editing than the better graphics card is probably worth it.

Krizoitz

Feb 12, 2004, 12:10 PM

Originally posted by Opteron
Couldn't agree more. The iMac is a SUB PAR Machine, and so is the eMac.

This is such a tired argument. The iMac is a fantastic machine and so is the eMac, for its intended market.

I get sick of all the power users who constantly bash the iMac/eMac for not being a top of the line machine. Its not supposed to be, its supposed to be for people who don't need all the bells and whistles.

It sounds like an iMac is the perfect machine for your dad, although I would look into people suggestions about finding a refurbed or previous gen 17" one. The increased screen size would really help with video editing.

primalman

Feb 12, 2004, 12:22 PM

get a refurb 17" iMac, or the top end eMac with SuperDrive before getting a 15" iMac. If you can get an EDU discount, the eMac becomes a very sweet deal.

eMac 1GHz/SuperDrive - EDU $999/retail $1,099
eMac 1GHZ/Combo - EDU $749/retail $799
iMac 15" 1GHZ/Combo only - EDU $1,199/retail $1,299/refurb $1,099
iMac 17" 1.25GHZ/SuperDrive only - EDU $1,699/retail $1,799/refurb $1,499

How about a refurb PowerMac G4?
Power Mac G4 1.25GHz/256MB/80GB/Combo/GigE/56K - Refurb $1,099.00

The iMac is not the only option.

Ambrose Chapel

Feb 12, 2004, 01:37 PM

you can't add a Superdrive to the 15", so if you/your dad really want to burn DVDs, the 15" is out. I agree with those who have recommended the 17", if you can afford it. definitely check if you can get the hardware discount; i think you should be able to even if you're only in H.S. it's a beautiful machine, and will be able to do everything you've mentioned. also, as others have said, increasing the RAM will make it smoother to run multiple apps at once, so try and get 512MB if you can.

Opteron

Feb 12, 2004, 05:00 PM

Originally posted by Krizoitz
I get sick of all the power users who constantly bash the iMac/eMac for not being a top of the line machine. Its not supposed to be, its supposed to be for people who don't need all the bells and whistles.

The reason it continually gets bashed is because it is priced to compeate against Exteremly Power Full PC's. the top of the line iMac cost ~$4000AUD, I payed $1000 less and I have a 64 bit processor, Radeon 9800Pro 256, 2GB of Dual Channel DDR400+ all the trimmings.

johnnyjibbs

Feb 12, 2004, 05:09 PM

The iMac is expensive when you compare the power to a similarly priced PC, but who could argue with which one is the most stylish or most well built?

I like the iMac and think it is a flagship symbol for Apple (also, notice how it always appears in Apple ads and promotions - you see one and you instantly think Apple, e.g. the iMac was carefully chosen for that Pepsi/iTunes ad).

However, I think that they have got the market wrong with it, hence its generally poor sales. The previous iMac was a no thrills, colourful, fun machine that was cheap but was nothing special (other than being a breath of fresh air from the boring beige PCs and Windows). The new iMac is like a millionnaire's fashion statement of style over practicality. Obviously it is practical and it suits most people's needs perfectly well (it's perfectly suited for EVERYTHING you want to do with it) but most consumers cannot afford to get it because it is expensive - it's not as much bang for the buck, compared to the whoppa PCs you can get for that price (that are upgradeable, more powerful, etc).

Rower_CPU

Feb 12, 2004, 05:31 PM

Originally posted by Opteron
The reason it continually gets bashed is because it is priced to compeate against Exteremly Power Full PC's. the top of the line iMac cost ~$4000AUD, I payed $1000 less and I have a 64 bit processor, Radeon 9800Pro 256, 2GB of Dual Channel DDR400+ all the trimmings.

Wrong. It's competition is other all-in-one (AIO) machines.

You can say that any laptop is "priced to compete" with desktops and talk about how the desktops blow away the laptop in power/performance/etc but that doesn't mean it's a valid comparison.

QCassidy352

Feb 12, 2004, 05:31 PM

I would *not* buy a 15" imac right now. The emac is a much, much better deal. My family has a 1 Ghz combo emac and they are really happy with it. Add a little RAM and it will have absolutely no trouble doing word, music, and internet at the same time. That won't even begin to tax it.

People bash imacs and emacs as not powerful enough - but for who? For the average user, they are better than ok. The imac, however, has essentially the same specs as the emac but costs much more. You're paying $$$ for appearance. Plus, that nice 15" LCD screen can't hit nearly as high resolution as the 17" CRT on the emac.

edit: oh, btw, opteron - what screen do you use with your PC? Is it a 20" LCD? Because that's what comes with the top of the line imac... so you have to consider the considerable cost of that as well when building a competitor.

Opteron

Feb 12, 2004, 05:38 PM

Originally posted by QCassidy352
oh, btw, opteron - what screen do you use with your PC? Is it a 20" LCD? Because that's what comes with the top of the line imac... so you have to consider the considerable cost of that as well when building a competitor.

21" Flat screen CRT,:p

And johnnyjibbs are you sayng that the the build quailty of apple macs is higher than that of a similarly priced PC. I would argue that for $4000AUD any computer would be farly well built.

dashiel

Feb 12, 2004, 06:18 PM

Originally posted by Opteron
My pont was this, The iMac is not worth the effort, and neither is the emac.

personally i'd rather pay the premium on my machine up front than end up paying somewhere down the line wasting hours and hours trying to hunt down worms/viruses and rogue DLLs.

Opteron

Feb 12, 2004, 11:08 PM

Originally posted by dashiel
personally i'd rather pay the premium on my machine up front than end up paying somewhere down the line wasting hours and hours trying to hunt down worms/viruses and rogue DLLs.

The reason People get worms/viruses etc... is because they either don't update their opperating system and virus check regulary or they open e-mail's from people they don't know.

I have been operating windows since 95, and kepp my current opperatng system up to date. and reformat once or twice a year. And have never had any problems.

Krizoitz

Feb 12, 2004, 11:21 PM

Originally posted by Opteron
The reason People get worms/viruses etc... is because they either don't update their opperating system and virus check regulary or they open e-mail's from people they don't know.

I have been operating windows since 95, and kepp my current opperatng system up to date. and reformat once or twice a year. And have never had any problems.

While I understand that you can't make anything completely virus proof, I think it is reasonabl to expect that you shouldn't have to worry about them as much as you do on Windows.

Considering the wide spread use of Windows and the amount of money they spend on it, it is not unreasonable to expect them to do a better job than they have been doing. Unix/Linux has shown that it can be more secure and still be powerful and fully featured.

I think it is simply a sign that microsoft simply doesn't care because they know they can get away with it because of their near monopoly. The number of excuses I hear people make for Windows flaws is staggering (not that Mac users can be blind about the Mac OS, its practically all I hear from my windows users friends.

x86isslow

Feb 12, 2004, 11:48 PM

Opteron

Feb 13, 2004, 01:29 AM

Originally posted by x86isslow
and so, the reason for getting my parents a macintosh is once i leave for college in the fall, they, my computer-illiterate parents, can survive without worrying about viruses, and other nonsense.
and when i come home on vacation, i dont have to spend all my time fixing the computer.

Since your the thread starter and have to take heed to your point rather than just playin gthe other side of the coin.

I'm a gamer (couldn't see that one comming:rolleyes:) and hence look for the most bang for my buck (what few I have.) Your parents on th other hand do not game, don't encode Div-X video, and more than likley don't edit large amounts of video as I do.

The iMac would then seem a "semi" reasonable purchace, as long as they understand that they are buying a computer that can't be upgraded (RAM doesn't count) and that one day they will have to bin the whole system, since they cannot keep the fantastic screen they payed for.

I can't speak for your parents, and for how they wish to spend their money. All I'm trying to get accross is that "IN MY OPINION" the iMac is over priced, outdated, un-upgradeable, and in general a SUB PAR MACHINE.

Rower_CPU

Feb 13, 2004, 01:35 AM

Originally posted by Opteron
...
I can't speak for your parents, and for how they wish to spend their money. All I'm trying to get accross is that "IN MY OPINION" the iMac is over priced, outdated, un-upgradeable, and in general a SUB PAR MACHINE.

Compared to? Funny how you ignored my post above...

Bilba

Feb 13, 2004, 02:18 AM

I posted a new thread about the imac. It has a link to an article published 2 days ago about the iMac.

Here is the link:
iMac article (http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/feb2004/tc20040211_3953_tc056.htm)

My point of view: The iMac is a sleek looking machine, that will give MANY people great working experience. 2 major problems are cost and future of the machine. The 2 problem are corrolated becuase the machine is not upgradable, and you are paying alot for the screen, which you will not be able to use once the machine itself had run its course.

Anyway, all these threads about the power (or lack of) power of the iMac makes me rethink about my purchase of 1.25 pbook. I sold my 500 tibook believing that the new machine will be a workhorse, and now I keep reading about people who believe that the 1.25 G4 is subpar... :confused:

Anyway, I will still wait until mid March for an update before making my purchase. So I will advise the same for people interested in buying the iMac.
At least as long as you don't need it today.

paulypants

Feb 13, 2004, 02:23 AM

Originally posted by Opteron

I'm a gamer

AHA! I knew it! :P

Mav451

Feb 13, 2004, 04:07 AM

ugh...ok ignoring the digression, I think the iMac will definitely be fine for your purposes.

Now, I know its not in your budget, but personally going with the 17", you not only get the larger monitor, but also the super drive. That means being able to watch DVDs vs. not being able to watch them at all on the 15" b/c it does not have the SuperDrive. This will easily stretch the lasting power of this machine (b/c it has DVD reading and recording abilities) a substantial amount.

If you do indeed go with the 17" iMac (1799)...that will not only push you over the proposed 1300 dollar amount, but also leaves no room for ram purchases...

If he can spend a few hundred, more, I would strongly recommend it. After all, you are basically getting an entirely new system.

Opteron

Feb 13, 2004, 05:30 AM

Originally posted by Mav451
Now, I know its not in your budget, but personally going with the 17", you not only get the larger monitor, but also the super drive. That means being able to watch DVDs vs. not being able to watch them at all on the 15" b/c it does not have the SuperDrive. This will easily stretch the lasting power of this machine (b/c it has DVD reading and recording abilities) a substantial amount.

While appearing to switch sides,

The 15" comes with a COMBO drive, thus you can watch DVD's, however cannot burn them, rather burn only CD's.

By the way what speed do the iMac's burn CD's @, I know they Super drive has a 4x DVD-R capability.

Chappers

Feb 13, 2004, 09:23 AM

Amusing. Someone comes asking a question (this time a switcher (sort of)). Then a little flamer comes along and critizes the iMac/eMac and we all spend our time arguing about it instead of just answering the question. Yes I want to defend the iMac too (cus I've got one) but wouldn't it be better to ignore these losers.

I like the iMac cus I can position the screen very easily. I get a stiff neck and changing my position and hence the iMac screen easily is important for me.
It plays Halo and AvP2 quite well, and does all the usual stuff.

PS. its 17 inch 800 / 256