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View Full Version : Obese entitled to 2 airline seats- Canada


rdowns
Nov 20, 2008, 03:07 PM
I think this is crazy. If you need 2 seats, you pay for 2 seats.

Link (http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssAirlines/idUSN2039776920081120)

OTTAWA, Nov 20 (Reuters) - Obese people have the right to two seats for the price of one on flights within Canada, the Supreme Court of Canada ruled on Thursday.

The high court declined to hear an appeal by Canadian airlines of a decision by the Canadian Transportation Agency that people who are "functionally disabled by obesity" deserve to have two seats for one fare.

Mindflux
Nov 20, 2008, 03:11 PM
I think this is crazy. If you need 2 seats, you pay for 2 seats.

Link (http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssAirlines/idUSN2039776920081120)

So what about the folks that only take up half a seat, or small children? Why do they pay full fair?

rdowns
Nov 20, 2008, 03:34 PM
So what about the folks that only take up half a seat, or small children? Why do they pay full fair?

Are you kidding me?

Mindflux
Nov 20, 2008, 03:40 PM
Are you kidding me?

Nope. Why do toddlers that are required by law to sit in a seat they occupy a small percentage of have to pay full fair? If you think a large person should have to pay for two seats then a small one should have to pay for a fraction.

MasterNile
Nov 20, 2008, 03:46 PM
So if you take up 2 seats they don't check or anything until you're boarding? (excuse my ignorance I've only flown twice) Meaning that even on some flights where they think they have enough room for everyone booked on the flight they might not because some of the passengers take up more than 1 seat and they weren't expecting that?

Eclipse278
Nov 20, 2008, 03:46 PM
I would love to pay for 3/4 of a seat to sit on a toddler

cdcastillo
Nov 20, 2008, 03:56 PM
So what about the folks that only take up half a seat, or small children? Why do they pay full fair?

Because no one else can use the other "half" seat. Airlines can't sell half seats, but they can sell more than one seat to someone.

Besides, being small is not your choice, however, If you are fat (and I'm fat, I weigh more than 230 pounds, BMI 38, so don't acuse me of discrimination) it's because either you eat more than you need or spend less calories than you should be burning (or both).

So you can be held liable of being fat but not for being small.


I would love to pay for 3/4 of a seat to sit on a toddler

And I would love to get things for free.

aethelbert
Nov 20, 2008, 04:04 PM
What a load of garbage. I really don't care who someone is or what their problem is: paying for one seat is good for one seat, not two. How is this going to work if the flight is full? Do some get kicked off because there are too many fat people, or do you have to give the airline your weight when you book the flight? I'm one to think that if they cannot fit, they need to get off. Kicking someone else out doesn't solve the problem. On a flight this morning, I was shocked that some people could actually fit between the mid-cabin lavs; I'm relatively small and it was a squeeze for me and just about everyone else.

Thanks but no thanks on this one, Ottawa. Either make the seats bigger or make them buy two seats. Giving a two-for-one sale exclusively to people over a certain weight seems a tad discriminatory, no?

Mindflux
Nov 20, 2008, 04:05 PM
Because no one else can use the other "half" seat. Airlines can't sell half seats, but they can sell more than one seat to someone.

Besides, being small is not your choice, however, If you are fat (and I'm fat, I weigh more than 230 pounds, BMI 38, so don't acuse me of discrimination) it's because either you eat more than you need or spend less calories than you should be burning (or both).

So you can be held liable of being fat but not for being small.



Can you be? There are people that eat quite normally and yet are still obese. Some have thyroid conditions and others have medical conditions that attribute to them being as big as they are. Why can you be held liable for being sick(if that's the reason for your obesity)?

Should I as a profoundly deaf individual be held liable if a cop were to tell me to freeze or he'd shoot and I didn't do so merely because I did not hear him?

Are the blind liable for walking across the road and getting hit by a vehicle?

StealthRider
Nov 20, 2008, 04:30 PM
Or get around it. Charge per 24 inches or however much of horizontal space instead of per seat.

Tom B.
Nov 20, 2008, 04:36 PM
Can you be? There are people that eat quite normally and yet are still obese. Some have thyroid conditions and others have medical conditions that attribute to them being as big as they are. Why can you be held liable for being sick (if that's the reason for your obesity)?

Well if that is the case, and they can prove it with some kind of doctor's note, then fine, let them have two seats for the price of one, but don't let people who can't stop shovelling food into their mouths make others pay for their problems.

It's similar to people who have smoked for their entire life relying on the National Health Service to keep them from dying from their self-inflicted condition. No. Just no. It's your own ****ing fault.

mknawabi
Nov 20, 2008, 04:52 PM
This is absurd, the price you pay is per seat. If you need one more seat, you should pay double the price. It is not the airline's fault that a person is obese.

calculus
Nov 20, 2008, 04:55 PM
This is absurd, the price you pay is per seat.

It could be argued that what you are paying for is one journey...

aethelbert
Nov 20, 2008, 05:02 PM
It could be argued that what you are paying for is one journey...
Not when the contract of carriage, which all must agree to in order to travel, says otherwise.

Well if that is the case, and they can prove it with some kind of doctor's note, then fine, let them have two seats for the price of one, but don't let people who can't stop shovelling food into their mouths make others pay for their problems.
Even if that were the case, there would still be people running to the gate two minutes prior closing after everyone else had boarded expecting two seats. Doing this, it would need to be pre-arranged without jeopardizing the seats of those who have previously paid. If there's only one seat left on a flight when booking it two months out, too bad.

leekohler
Nov 20, 2008, 05:07 PM
This is ridiculous! One seat is one seat.

nick9191
Nov 20, 2008, 05:08 PM
If I owned an airline I would purposely fit non adjustable arm rests in between the seats.

Eclipse278
Nov 20, 2008, 05:09 PM
It could be argued that what you are paying for is one journey...

No one is saying they can't go on a journey.
Extra burden = extra money

If they take up another seat for free, that means another paying customer won't make it on the plane. The airline loses money.

So the airlines will give them their second seat "free of fare" They'll just end up charging an "Accommodation Fee" to make up for it

Loge
Nov 20, 2008, 05:28 PM
If the airlines didn't have such small seats in the first place there wouldn't be a problem.

.Andy
Nov 20, 2008, 05:31 PM
If I owned an airline I would purposely fit non adjustable arm rests in between the seats.
Your airline would suck for everyone then.

Tom B.
Nov 20, 2008, 05:33 PM
Your airline would suck for everyone then.

Well, whichever airline lets fat people have two seats for the price of one sucks for the majority.

Anyway, what do they do with the seat belts? Fasten one around each monstrous thigh?

.Andy
Nov 20, 2008, 05:36 PM
Well, whichever airline lets fat people have two seats for the price of one sucks for the majority.
Why? It's no skin off my nose. In fact it would be preferable to me to not be squashed next to an obese person. I'd pony up $50 for that privilege alone.

People sure don't like the overweight do they? Gets the sanctimonious streak going.

XnavxeMiyyep
Nov 20, 2008, 05:36 PM
Your airline would suck for everyone then.

It could be one of those super-discounted airlines. What ever happned to that airline that tried to have $30 flights with no food and such? Someone posted it here before.

Also, what does it take to get two seats for the price of one? That could be a great deal for the slightly overweight crowd, who just barely take up more than one seat.:D

But seriously, it's pretty ridiculous. You pay for a seat on an airplane. What happens when someone takes up three seats?

Why? It's no skin off my nose. In fact it would be preferable to me to not be squashed next to an obese person. I'd pony up $50 for that privilege alone.

People sure don't like the overweight do they? Gets the sanctimonious streak going.

If they need two seats, they can pay for two seats. Why can't I get two seats for the price of one and bring more bags on board instead of checking?

calculus
Nov 20, 2008, 05:38 PM
If I agree to stand up, can I fly for free then?

.Andy
Nov 20, 2008, 05:40 PM
If they need two seats, they can pay for two seats. Why can't I get two seats for the price of one and bring more bags on board instead of checking?
This is a ridiculous argument.

dukebound85
Nov 20, 2008, 05:42 PM
This is a ridiculous argument.

why exactly?

Blue Velvet
Nov 20, 2008, 05:43 PM
This is a ridiculous argument.

Not entirely ridiculous. Professional musicians with valuable and large instruments sometimes pay for two seats; one for them and one for their viola, for instance.

.Andy
Nov 20, 2008, 05:44 PM
why exactly?
Because luggage isn't the same as a person.

dukebound85
Nov 20, 2008, 05:47 PM
well we arent arguing luggage is a person we are saying if they want 2 seats, then have them pay for 2 seats. if they get a seat for free then why cant i and use it for my comfort and convienience?

.Andy
Nov 20, 2008, 05:47 PM
Not entirely ridiculous. Professional musicians with valuable and large instruments sometimes pay for two seats; one for them and one for their viola, for instance.
But this still isn't a person. I travel with my surfboard sometimes and pay for the privilege. If someone is too big to fit in an airline seat and has to pay two tickets it could preclude them from traveling by air at all. I don't see that as fair.

If a business decides that it is willing to help out people who are overweight by giving them another seat I have no problems with it at all. It's no skin of my nose and I can't see why it should be for anyone else. I guess people get riled up easily by obese people and the perception that people are getting something for free.

.Andy
Nov 20, 2008, 05:52 PM
well we arent arguing luggage is a person we are saying if they want 2 seats, then have them pay for 2 seats.
Obese people need another seat if they can't fit in regular seats. It's not about just wanting as in having extra space to put your luggage. It's a massive difference. If they can't have two seats they'd likely to be precluded from flying altogether. That's not fair at all.

dukebound85
Nov 20, 2008, 05:53 PM
But this still isn't a person. I travel with my surfboard sometimes and pay for the privilege. If someone is too big to fit in an airline seat and has to pay two tickets it could preclude them from traveling by air at all. I don't see that as fair.

If a business decides that it is willing to help out people who are overweight by giving them another seat I have no problems with it at all. It's no skin of my nose and I can't see why it should be for anyone else. I guess people get riled up easily by obese people and the perception that people are getting something for free.

well they are getting something for free:rolleyes:

my last flight didnt even have enough room for me to bring on my CARRYON for example. they had to then check it and when i landed had to wait an hr to get my carry on bag from the lugagge carrousel

i fly with no checked bags exactly because of that inconvenience and if i could get an additional seat to not have to go through that for "free" i would gladly do so

Blue Velvet
Nov 20, 2008, 05:53 PM
If someone is too big to fit in an airline seat and has to pay two tickets it could preclude them from traveling by air at all. I don't see that as fair.


Perhaps not. Business isn't fair. Airlines have extremely tight margins. I'm not sure that airlines should be compelled by law to take losses on certain passengers.

But this isn't something I feel strongly about either way, so I'll leave it to you guys. Just quit bickering. ;)

Tom B.
Nov 20, 2008, 05:54 PM
I wonder if conjoined twins have to pay for two seats?

.Andy
Nov 20, 2008, 05:57 PM
Perhaps not. Business isn't fair. Airlines have extremely tight margins. I'm not sure that airlines should be compelled by law to take losses on certain passengers.
But this is only because people are overweight that it is an issue. Airlines take losses on disabled passengers who take up lost of space with wheelchairs and walking aids. I don't think many people would be complaining here.

It's fair game to have a go at people who are obese and i just don't think it is very cool. They're just normal people.

dukebound85
Nov 20, 2008, 05:57 PM
Obese people need another seat if they can't fit in regular seats. It's not about just wanting as in having extra space to put your luggage. It's a massive difference. If they can't have two seats they'd likely to be precluded from flying altogether. That's not fair at all.

no this is about them getting an extra seat for free. why must you be "obese" to get a free seat

why not say charge them say 150% of the price of a single seat for that priveledge of taking up 2 seats?

.Andy
Nov 20, 2008, 05:58 PM
no this is about them getting an extra seat for free. why must you be "obese" to get a free seat

why not say charge them say 150% of the price of a single seat for that priveledge of taking up 2 seats?
Why not charge people with wheelchairs 150% of the price as they take up the space of 2 seats? They're getting extra space for free....

Lau
Nov 20, 2008, 05:58 PM
well they are getting something for free:rolleyes:


:rolleyes:

No they're not. .Andy's right – people get in a state about this perceived idea that someone's getting something free. They're not – an obese person is as comfortable in two seats as an average person is in one, so that's equivalent. The obese person wouldn't have room for extra luggage, and neither would you. See? Equal. It's not a free seat, because they're in the same position as you.

That's like whinging that someone in a wheelchair gets to park nearer a building, or that someone in a wheelchair gets extra legroom on a train from the wheelchair space.

Obese people don't choose to be obese to swindle airlines and the all-American taxpayer out of cash, you know.

Koodauw
Nov 20, 2008, 05:59 PM
If a business decides that it is willing to help out people who are overweight by giving them another seat I have no problems with it at all. It's no skin of my nose and I can't see why it should be for anyone else. I guess people get riled up easily by obese people and the perception that people are getting something for free.

But that's not the case here. Companies are being forced to give up seats to obese people. IMO obesity is a choice about 90% of the time. Thus you must suffer the consequences of those actions.

bruinsrme
Nov 20, 2008, 06:00 PM
Obese people need another seat if they can't fit in regular seats. It's not about just wanting as in having extra space to put your luggage. It's a massive difference. If they can't have two seats they'd likely to be precluded from flying altogether. That's not fair at all.

What about the poor personthat is over 6'6" having to sit there with their knees in their throat.
Are the airlines gonna be required to remove the seat infront of that person?

Blue Velvet
Nov 20, 2008, 06:01 PM
It's fair game to have a go at people who are obese and i just don't think it is very cool.


That's true too. That and ageism still seem acceptable forms of overt discrimination.

Um, I think I've got the good sense to bow out of this discussion at this point. :D

calculus
Nov 20, 2008, 06:01 PM
why must you be "obese" to get a free seat



Why does it bother you so much that someone larger than you (I assume) gets to travel in comfort for the same price as you? What exactly is it that you think you are missing out on?

The world is a very complicated place and all sorts of people subsidise all sorts of other people in all sorts of ways. It's called society...

bradl
Nov 20, 2008, 06:01 PM
And let's take another hypothetical.

If it were legal for my SO's guide dog to sit in the seat instead of on the floor next to her, would it be fair that she'd have to purchase an extra seat for her guide (yellow lab)?

Before anyone says that it's irrelevant, I already know and read extensively the ADA and Air Carrier Access Act, and know what is supposed to happen with service animals. Like I said, this is hypothetical, so I'd love to hear your opinions based on the debate so far.

BL.

Koodauw
Nov 20, 2008, 06:05 PM
Why does it bother you so much that someone larger than you (I assume) gets to travel in comfort for the same price as you? What exactly is it that you think you are missing out on?

A double quarter pounder with cheese super sized, 3 times a week.

.Andy
Nov 20, 2008, 06:06 PM
Companies are being forced to give up seats to obese people.
That's equality for you. Better than some people being forced to pay more for their ticket based on their physiology and excluded from travel.

IMO obesity is a choice about 90% of the time.
Besides sumo wrestlers I think you'll find that nobody chooses to become obese. 90% is a pretty high number you made up for impact though ;)! What percentage of your 90% would be incredibly unhappy with their lot in life and are desperate to try and shed that weight? What percentage is due to diabetes/taking glucocorticoids for chronic disease? Should we get medical reviews to determine who is overweight by disease or by "choice" before letting them purchase a ticket? This is what I was getting at before - people just don't like the overweight. It brings out the sanctimony in everyone.

Thus you must suffer the consequences of those actions.
So people that become paraplegics due to, let's say the two biggest causes, car crashes (which are their fault) or aquatic accidents (which are their fault) should not be extended disability privileges as other paraplegics?

dukebound85
Nov 20, 2008, 06:06 PM
disabled and guide dogs are protected by laws

obesity is not

thats the difference


Besides sumo wrestlers I think you'll find that nobody chooses to become obese. 90% is a pretty high number you made up for impact though ;)! What percentage of your 90% would be incredibly unhappy with their lot in life and are desperate to try and shed that weight? What percentage is due to diabetes/taking glucocorticoids for chronic disease? Should we get medical reviews to determine who is overweight by disease or by "choice" before letting them purchase a ticket? This is what I was getting at before - people just don't like the overweight. It brings out the sanctimony in everyone.


lets see what causes diabetes and obesity.....sedentary lifestyle and diet are the biggest reasons. im not arguning that these people want to be obese but it is mostly self inflicted as a result of the way they live

aethelbert
Nov 20, 2008, 06:08 PM
Obese people need another seat if they can't fit in regular seats. It's not about just wanting as in having extra space to put your luggage. It's a massive difference. If they can't have two seats they'd likely to be precluded from flying altogether. That's not fair at all.
Who says that they cannot have two seats? They just need to pay for their seats like everyone else. If there's an empty seat, then who cares? If the flight is otherwise full, they're essentially refusing service to someone else because a larger person needs a two-for-one deal. Either way you spin it, you're refusing service to someone. The question is, do you want to get the revenue of two passengers or one?

For many smaller aircraft, which are already the most expensive to operate, losing just one seat's revenue can easily represent a 3% loss in yield. Do that two or three times on the same leg at it's a huge chunk. Nobody is suggesting the idea of prohibiting them from flying; they're just suggesting that they pay for what they use as it could be used to earn money.

Why not charge people with wheelchairs 150% of the price as they take up the space of 2 seats? They're getting extra space for free....
No they're not. They're getting a chair thrown in the back of the cargo hold assuming that there's available space. It requires pre-arrangement and often a fee.

bradl
Nov 20, 2008, 06:09 PM
disabled and guide dogs are protected by laws

obesity is not

thats the difference

But the question still stands, and like I said, I already know the laws. Question was, if the dog was allowed to be in the seat, should we have to pay for that seat?

BL.

calculus
Nov 20, 2008, 06:09 PM
disabled and guide dogs are protected by laws

obesity is not

thats the difference

Well it looks like in Canada, when you fly, it is.

So that's the end of that then...

.Andy
Nov 20, 2008, 06:10 PM
Well it looks like in Canada, when you fly, it is.

So that's the end of that then...
QED :D!

Koodauw
Nov 20, 2008, 06:11 PM
Besides sumo wrestlers I think you'll find that nobody chooses to become obese. 90% is a pretty high number you made up for impact though ;)! What percentage of your 90% would be incredibly unhappy with their lot in life and are desperate to try and shed that weight? What percentage is due to diabetes/taking glucocorticoids for chronic disease? Should we get medical reviews to determine who is overweight by disease or by "choice" before letting them purchase a ticket? This is what I was getting at before - people just don't like the overweight. It brings out the sanctimony in everyone.

I would say 90% of people are obese because they consume a higher amount of calories than their body can burn. In such a case you need to 1) eat less calories 2) Burn more calories off via exercise etc. Both are choices. If you don't make the choice to do either, you pay the consequences. That's how I see it.

dukebound85
Nov 20, 2008, 06:12 PM
But the question still stands, and like I said, I already know the laws. Question was, if the dog was allowed to be in the seat, should we have to pay for that seat?

BL.

as i said, laws require the airlines to accomodate for the dog. there is no such law requiring companies to accomodate obese people

however im arguing from the point is it entitled for obese people to have these seats. if laws and airline policys say so, thats their decision isnt it

so canada made their decision but i would fight any type of movement here in the states

.Andy
Nov 20, 2008, 06:14 PM
No they're not. They're getting a chair thrown in the back of the cargo hold assuming that there's available space. It requires pre-arrangement and often a fee.
Is this really the case. I was under the impression (perhaps from Australian regulations) that wheelchairs are carried for free. There is no fee for carrying the chair and the disabled person gets an isle seat and special care getting to and from the restrooms.

aethelbert
Nov 20, 2008, 06:14 PM
But the question still stands, and like I said, I already know the laws. Question was, if the dog was allowed to be in the seat, should we have to pay for that seat?
The dog doesn't get a seat. The disabled person is guided to the seat by ground staff and the dog is placed into the cargo hold and meets the passenger at the gate upon arrival. It's not using what could be used for revenue.

dukebound85
Nov 20, 2008, 06:15 PM
The dog doesn't get a seat. The disabled person is guided to the seat by ground staff and the dog is placed into the cargo hold and meets the passenger at the gate upon arrival. It's not using what could be used for revenue.

im not too sure on that but i could see the point if say other passengers were allergic to dogs or what not

aethelbert
Nov 20, 2008, 06:15 PM
Is this really the case. I was under the impression (perhaps from Australian regulations) that wheelchairs are carried for free. There is no fee for carrying the chair and the disabled person gets an isle seat and special care getting to and from the restrooms.
They get special assistance both on the ground and on the flight if available (usually not on short flights). But the chair almost never goes with them. Many carriers will carry the chair as cargo for free, but some charge (especially if it's not pre-arranged).

im not too sure on that but i could see the point if say other passengers were allergic to dogs or what not
That's how it's been as long as I've worked in the industry. There's no way to secure a dog in the seat and it could potentially be a flying hazard in case of emergency. I did, though, once see one take a first class seat but that was simply because there was no additional space in the cargo hold (small regional jet).

bradl
Nov 20, 2008, 06:16 PM
as i said, laws require the airlines to accomodate for the dog. there is no such law requiring companies to accomodate obese people

however im arguing from the point is it entitled for obese people to have these seats. if laws and airline policys say so, thats their decision isnt it


Fair enough. What I'm trying to get at is if people would be happy/satisfied if someone in their family had to be bumped from a flight because a dog or other service animal got a free seat on your flight that easily could have been taken by your family, as they paid for it.

See what I mean?

BL.

bruinsrme
Nov 20, 2008, 06:17 PM
And let's take another hypothetical.

If it were legal for my SO's guide dog to sit in the seat instead of on the floor next to her, would it be fair that she'd have to purchase an extra seat for her guide (yellow lab)?

Before anyone says that it's irrelevant, I already know and read extensively the ADA and Air Carrier Access Act, and know what is supposed to happen with service animals. Like I said, this is hypothetical, so I'd love to hear your opinions based on the debate so far.

BL.

service dogs should absolutely receive special treatment.
Like a panas the service dog is an extension of the persons body but serve to aide the individual in what most people take for granted.
The service dog SHOULD NOT have to pay for an extra seat. These are incredible creatures.
If the government says an obese person should be able to occupy more than 1 seat then standards should be set accomodate everyone without providing preferrential treatment based on size. I would love to be able to stretch out in a 30 inch wide seat.

bradl
Nov 20, 2008, 06:18 PM
The dog doesn't get a seat. The disabled person is guided to the seat by ground staff and the dog is placed into the cargo hold and meets the passenger at the gate upon arrival. It's not using what could be used for revenue.

You may want to reread that Air Carrier Access Act. The service animal is allowed in the plane, and is usually placed in the bulkhead of the plane, by law. They do not go into the cargo hold.

BL.

.Andy
Nov 20, 2008, 06:18 PM
the dog is placed into the cargo hold and meets the passenger at the gate upon arrival. It's not using what could be used for revenue.
All space and weight on an aircraft costs money. Nothing is free, especially transporting live animals.

dukebound85
Nov 20, 2008, 06:18 PM
Fair enough. What I'm trying to get at is if people would be happy/satisfied if someone in their family had to be bumped from a flight because a dog or other service animal got a free seat on your flight that easily could have been taken by your family, as they paid for it.

See what I mean?

BL.

well the airline has no choice to not accommodate the dog as its required legally.

again this accommodation is not legally required for obesity yet here in the states

aethelbert
Nov 20, 2008, 06:20 PM
Fair enough. What I'm trying to get at is if people would be happy/satisfied if someone in their family had to be bumped from a flight because a dog or other service animal got a free seat on your flight that easily could have been taken by your family, as they paid for it.

See what I mean?

BL.
Although the dog doesn't get a seat, situations like this are often avoided. This is why we require this kind of stuff to be arranged way in advance. If the flight is full and someone would need services which would inflict upon someone else's ability to travel, we reserve the right to deny service. It's a first-come, first-served industry.

calculus
Nov 20, 2008, 06:21 PM
the service dog is an extension of the persons body

An obese person's body is an extension of their body...

dukebound85
Nov 20, 2008, 06:22 PM
An obese person's body is an extension of their body...

and ones legally protected while the other isnt

Lau
Nov 20, 2008, 06:22 PM
A double quarter pounder with cheese super sized, 3 times a week.

If you want to do that, you can. The point is, a lot of us choose not to do that because, actually, being obese to the point of disability isn't likely to be much fun (and it's hardly as simple as that, anyway).

Do you really think that the majority of people who are that obese do it to spite airlines and get an extra seat (which they fill) for free? Do you really think they wouldn't swap with you to be (I'm assuming) an average weight?

This idea that people do this kind of thing on purpose to spite the 'taxpayer' is just ludicrous.

I would love to be able to stretch out in a 30 inch wide seat.

But an obese person wouldn't be stretching out. They're not getting an advantage, they're just getting what you get.

aethelbert
Nov 20, 2008, 06:22 PM
You may want to reread that Air Carrier Access Act. The service animal is allowed in the plane, and is usually placed in the bulkhead of the plane, by law. They do not go into the cargo hold.

BL.
I work for an airline operating under different laws. The dog goes into the cabin only when arrangements were made for it to travel and cargo space is unavailable. I am yet to witness this. Not all planes have bulkheads, either. If the animal cannot be secured (which many a/c can't accommodate), it cannot be in the cabin.

All space and weight on an aircraft costs money. Nothing is free, especially transporting live animals.
True, but another traveling passenger makes the airline more than enough money to cover the cost.

Wow, this is off topic. Obese to dogs. Impressive.

.Andy
Nov 20, 2008, 06:23 PM
and ones legally protected while the other isnt
Only in the US and this thread isn't about the US. It's about Canada.

juanster
Nov 20, 2008, 06:23 PM
imagine how upset the owners of an airline will be if there is an obese convention or something? :D well at least they ll make their moneyback selling food on the plane...(and im sorry if offended anyone who is obese by illness not fault, all o ther ones well.....stop eating, and come train with me!!!lol)

calculus
Nov 20, 2008, 06:23 PM
and ones legally protected while the other isnt

Not to become a broken record or anything, but apparently not in Canada...

dukebound85
Nov 20, 2008, 06:24 PM
Not to become a broken record or anything, but apparently not in Canada...

right right, im talking here in US and if there was a movement to do this

iJohnHenry
Nov 20, 2008, 06:28 PM
Weight requires fuel.

Jump on the scale with your bags, and we'll let you know how much we are billing your credit card.

bruinsrme
Nov 20, 2008, 06:29 PM
If you want to do that, you can. The point is, a lot of us choose not to do that because, actually, being obese to the point of disability isn't likely to be much fun (and it's hardly as simple as that, anyway).

Do you really think that the majority of people who are that obese do it to spite airlines and get an extra seat (which they fill) for free? Do you really think they wouldn't swap with you to be (I'm assuming) an average weight?

This idea that people do this kind of thing on purpose to spite the 'taxpayer' is just ludicrous.



But an obese person wouldn't be stretching out. They're not getting an advantage, they're just getting what you get.

should i be given a smaller seat and charged less because I am 5'6" and 160 pounds.

Oh yeah I want the arm rest down.

bradl
Nov 20, 2008, 06:29 PM
I work for an airline operating under different laws. The dog goes into the cabin only when arrangements were made for it to travel and cargo space is unavailable. I am yet to witness this. Not all planes have bulkheads, either. If the animal cannot be secured (which many a/c can't accommodate), it cannot be in the cabin.


True, but another traveling passenger makes the airline more than enough money to cover the cost.

Wow, this is off topic. Obese to dogs. Impressive.

:rolleyes:

Apparently you don't get the meaning of the word hypothetical.

You're right, not all planes have bulkheads, but they do need to be accommodated in the plane, so sayeth 14 CFR Part 382:


(c) If a service animal cannot be accommodated at the seat location of the qualified individual with a disability whom the animal is accompanying (see § 382.55(a)(2)), the carrier shall offer the passenger the opportunity to move with the animal to a seat location, if present on the aircraft, where the animal can be accommodated, as an alternative to requiring that the animal travel with checked baggage.


I'm a pilot as well, albeit student.

BL.

aethelbert
Nov 20, 2008, 06:32 PM
Weight requires fuel.

Jump on the scale with your bags, and we'll let you know how much we are billing your credit card.
I remember WN trying that a few years back. It was funny to watch that one play out. Needless to say, it got slashed because nobody wanted to stand on the scale.

yg17
Nov 20, 2008, 06:32 PM
As a fat person, I think this is ridiculous. If you take up 2 seats, pay for 2 freaking seats.

Fortunately I'm not that big and my fat ass still fits in one seat with the armrests down. But if I needed 2 seats, I'd have no problem paying for the 2nd seat. If I did, I'd drive instead.

bruinsrme
Nov 20, 2008, 06:34 PM
:rolleyes:

Apparently you don't get the meaning of the word hypothetical.

You're right, not all planes have bulkheads, but they do need to be accommodated in the plane, so sayeth 14 CFR Part 382:



I'm a pilot as well, albeit student.

BL.

I would gladly take another flight to accommodate a service animal. Again, that person needs the service dog.

What about the obese person with the obese service dog. j/k

iJohnHenry
Nov 20, 2008, 06:34 PM
I remember WN trying that a few years back. It was funny to watch that one play out. Needless to say, it got slashed because nobody wanted to stand on the scale.

No one said the scale weight had to be public knowledge.

In this day and age, it could be linked to the ticketing system, without causing any "anxiety" to the lardage-challenged.

.Andy
Nov 20, 2008, 06:35 PM
Wow, this is off topic. Obese to dogs. Impressive.
Just wait until we get on to obese dogs :D

As per BV's lead I'm out of here before it reaches that stage :p

Keebler
Nov 20, 2008, 06:37 PM
I would love to pay for 3/4 of a seat to sit on a toddler

no kidding! this is a brutal ruling.

actually, the more I think about it, i'm a small person so i should get a frickin' discount!

Lau
Nov 20, 2008, 06:37 PM
...dogs

As per BV's lead ...

Is this some kind of dominatrix thing? :confused:

calculus
Nov 20, 2008, 06:39 PM
No one said the scale weight had to be public knowledge.

In this day and age, it could be linked to the ticketing system, without causing any "anxiety" to the lardage-challenged.

If you have a crap during the flight do you get a refund?

How about people who cheat the system by not eating before they board and then stuff themselves during the flight? It's just not fair...

aethelbert
Nov 20, 2008, 06:41 PM
No one said the scale weight had to be public knowledge.

In this day and age, it could be linked to the ticketing system, without causing any "anxiety" to the lardage-challenged.
Oh, I know. I actually liked the idea a lot. I don't fly Southwest, but the move definitely got a thumbs up by me! I think that it makes more sense but apparently a scale is just too personal.

If you have a crap during the flight do you get a refund?
No, of course not. The poo is just moved to a different part of the plane.

How about people who cheat the system by not eating before they board and then stuff themselves during the flight? It's just not fair...
Who serves food on flights anymore? Well, I did get like 3 peanuts today on my flight, but not enough to tip the scales.

bradl
Nov 20, 2008, 06:42 PM
I would gladly take another flight to accommodate a service animal. Again, that person needs the service dog.

What about the obese person with the obese service dog. j/k

Thanks.

funnily enough, an older lady on our flight to Omaha from Denver was pissed that our dog was on the flight, that she asked that the dog be put in the cargo hold for the flight. The F/A objected. The lady then asked that the dog take the next flight, which was at 9am the following morning. We were wondering how the dog was going to get off the plane, get out of the airport, catch a cab to the city, get a room, get up the following morning, get back to the airport, and jump on the flight. No go. In the end, the F/A went off on the old lady saying that the dog, as a service animal, has every right to be on the flight as her, and if she didn't like it, she can take the next flight. In this instance, the flight was near full, and we ended up displacing her from the seat she chose.

Anyway, let's throw this back on topic.

BL.

Lau
Nov 20, 2008, 06:45 PM
How about people who cheat the system by not eating before they board and then stuff themselves during the flight? It's just not fair...

What if the guide dog ate one of the passengers arms? Would the passenger missing the arm then be able to get a partial refund, paid for by the passenger with the guide dog who had then increased weight in the dog, and who had also had a free meal, meaning that they had had something for nothing?

.Andy
Nov 20, 2008, 06:47 PM
Is this some kind of dominatrix thing? :confused:
I'll drop back in for this and say I really hope so :p.

calculus
Nov 20, 2008, 06:47 PM
Who serves food on flights anymore?

People could bring their own sandwiches...



...and perhaps a flask of tea.

aethelbert
Nov 20, 2008, 06:49 PM
People could bring their own sandwiches...



...and perhaps a flask of tea.
Wouldn't the tasty sammich be included in the boarding weight?

calculus
Nov 20, 2008, 06:51 PM
Wouldn't the tasty sammich be included in the boarding weight?

You've spotted the flaw in my argument...

iShater
Nov 20, 2008, 06:56 PM
So I am curious if y'all are reading something other than the original link, cause there isn't enough information for all the billion conclusions being drawn. :confused:

Lau
Nov 20, 2008, 06:56 PM
You've spotted the flaw in my argument...

Having said that, there should be some kind of penalty on those who prefer a heavier food. If you favour a mile-high snack of gammon, it would be totally unfair on those who choose to eat, say, lint.

calculus
Nov 20, 2008, 06:58 PM
If you favour a mile-high snack

My understanding is that that is an entirely different matter, which of course raises other issues about the transfer of body weight from one person to another...

Lau
Nov 20, 2008, 07:01 PM
So I am curious if y'all are reading something other than the original link, cause there isn't enough information for all the billion conclusions being drawn. :confused:

There's an original link? :p

Jaffa Cake
Nov 20, 2008, 07:01 PM
Like many, I feel like being filled with righteous indignation on this matter, but I'm not actually sure I know who to blame – the obese passenger, the airlines, or guide dogs? :confused:

If someone could point out which would be most appropriate for my ire I'd be grateful, I wouldn't want my unnecessary anger being directed at the wrong group or anything.

iJohnHenry
Nov 20, 2008, 07:05 PM
Blame the French.

Lau
Nov 20, 2008, 07:05 PM
If someone could point out which would be most appropriate for my ire I'd be grateful, I wouldn't want my unnecessary anger being directed at the wrong group or anything.

I think the general consensus is gammon-loving, oral-pleasure-tolerating guide dogs.

Or the Welsh.

aethelbert
Nov 20, 2008, 07:05 PM
it would be totally unfair on those who choose to eat, say, lint.
Yum.

Jaffa Cake
Nov 20, 2008, 07:06 PM
I think the general consensus is gammon-loving, oral-pleasure-tolerating guide dogs.If they're not obese or running an airline, I'm prepared to give them a chance.

bradl
Nov 20, 2008, 07:07 PM
I think the general consensus is gammon-loving, oral-pleasure-tolerating guide dogs.

Or the Welsh.

Damn.. Even push!

BL.

iShater
Nov 20, 2008, 07:10 PM
There's an original link? :p

After reading the last 10 posts, I forgot what we were discussing. ;)

JNB
Nov 20, 2008, 07:13 PM
Blame the French.

On that we can all agree. :D

On the service animals, we had 3 on a recent flight simultaneously, being delivered to their new owners, but they were accommodated as per usual procedure as that was considered part of their training/conditioning.

The one I liked the most was the service pony on a flight a couple of years ago. Now that created some interest.

ChrisA
Nov 20, 2008, 07:13 PM
Can you be? There are people that eat quite normally and yet are still obese. Some have thyroid conditions and others have medical conditions that attribute to them being as big as they are.

What would happen if these people with the stated condition were to eat less? Would they continue to grow even larger? No natter what is wrong with you if you eat fewer calories than you use you loose weight.

What's really wrong with the above is the idea of "eat quite normally". There is no "normal" amount. There is a different "corect" amount and it's different for each person. So if you are larger than you should be it is because they are taking in more than what is correct for them.

Rodimus Prime
Nov 20, 2008, 07:14 PM
I think it is crap that airlines are being forced to give away a seat to some one takes up 2 seats. if you take up 2 seats PAY FOR 2 seats. for 95%+ that obese it is there own fault why should I have to pay an increase fare because of it because the airlines will just pass on that cost.

I personally like southwest (and I believe other airlines) approach to this problem. They require a deposit for the 2nd seat so if the flight is full the FAT person has to pay for 2 seats since they are taking away a spot some one of normal size could fly.

Now if it is not a full flight and they have some extra seats they return the deposit since the Fat person did not steal away a seat from a potential customer.

That is my tought on it. They should be charge for 2 seats if the flight is full. If it is not full then return the money to them. Only charge the extra fee if it stop some one else from flying.

iShater
Nov 20, 2008, 07:16 PM
What would happen if these people with the stated condition were to eat less? Would they continue to grow even larger? No natter what is wrong with you if you eat fewer calories than you use you loose weight.

What's really wrong with the above is the idea of "eat quite normally". There is no "normal" amount. There is a different "corect" amount and it's different for each person. So if you are larger than you should be it is because they are taking in more than what is correct for them.

I have a good friend of mine who eats half the amount of food I consume. He is over 300 lbs and does not fit in a single seat. Has been through tons of stuff, and cannot lose the weight.

What I understood from the article is that it covers people who are in similar conditions where their obesity is almost a handicap. Did I misunderstand that? :confused:

And y'all are forgetting that these same airlines are the ones charging us to check-in and pay for every piece of luggage now. :rolleyes:

calculus
Nov 20, 2008, 07:20 PM
I'm becoming more and more outraged at the thought of people getting something I'm not and I'm making a pledge to do something about it. I urge you to join me.

Starting tomorrow things are going to be different. Here's what I'm going to do.

Where I work there are a certain number of car parking spaces, these are allocated in seniority order. If I choose to drive to work I would have one, but I walk. So, tomorrow, I am going to claim the space that is rightfully mine and turn it into an ornamental japanese garden. It's only fair...

iJohnHenry
Nov 20, 2008, 07:20 PM
Alchemists have been trying to turn lead into gold for centuries.

How these people turn 1,000 calories a day into added weight, even without exercise, is a modern miracle.

I suspect some snacking goes on during the day.

How else can you create something from essentially nothing?????

Eclipse278
Nov 20, 2008, 09:12 PM
Ok so here's a different analogy from more of the business aspect:

Say an average person buys and eats a sandwich from a store.
Should an obese person get 2 sandwiches for the price of 1 because 1 is not enough?

Airlines sell seats. When planes fly with empty seats that chance to charge for it is gone..forever. So in order for the airlines to turn a profit they need the money from the seat.

So if airlines have to give away seats, do deli owners have to give away sandwiches? It's only fair!!!

dmr727
Nov 20, 2008, 09:47 PM
No one said the scale weight had to be public knowledge.

In this day and age, it could be linked to the ticketing system, without causing any "anxiety" to the lardage-challenged.

Unfortunately, the LAST thing an airline wants to do is use actual weights of the passengers and baggage for an aircraft.

Iscariot
Nov 20, 2008, 10:14 PM
People sure don't like the overweight do they? Gets the sanctimonious streak going.

Boy, does it ever!
If they can't have two seats they'd likely to be precluded from flying altogether.

I don't think anyone wants to deny an extra seat, but an extra seat free of charge. It's an important distinction.
I guess people get riled up easily by obese people and the perception that people are getting something for free.

In all fairness, we're talking about a decision in Canada. Obese people already get a great deal of "free" healthcare. Obesity is a major cause of disease, ergo obese people need more healthcare, ergo they're already getting a lot for "free".

I'm fairly ambivalent about the ruling. As much as I have a problem with the rising levels of obesity, I'm also not willing to claim that obesity is purely a disease of laziness. There are many factors that have lead to the prevalence of obesity, and to many it has become a legitimate disability. I would like to see the government doing more to help fight obesity, but I'm not going to get up in arms if a few obese get to be a little more comfortable when flying.

Rodimus Prime
Nov 21, 2008, 12:31 AM
Alchemists have been trying to turn lead into gold for centuries.

How these people turn 1,000 calories a day into added weight, even without exercise, is a modern miracle.

I suspect some snacking goes on during the day.

How else can you create something from essentially nothing?????

yes it is possible but the people who are truly that way are very very few and far between. Vaste majority of people that fat just are that unhealthy. They do not eat enough food and do not exsersise enough.

yes I will admit it is easier for some other than others. I am on the side that can eat all I want and sit on the couch and not gain weight. But my GF on the other had at one point in her life she was massively over weight due to no fault of her own. I know how little she ate during that time and how much she worked out. Turn out she had thyroid cancer and it screwed everything up. She is now a more in the normal range and yes it is hard for her to stay keep the weight off and she will never be as thin as i am but even she thinks there is just a point....

It is sad how lazy people has become. It honestly is not that hard to stay a healthy weight. it is do physical activity and eat healthy. Most importantly EAT HEALTHY. You need to understand how your body works and know if you can not eat the bad stuff. I know I personally need to slow down as I have put 10 lb on in the past year and i know it will catch up to me. Mind you I am 6'4" and 165 but I know I should try to avoid putting on to much weight .

November
Nov 21, 2008, 05:01 AM
Is there a legal status for obesity in canada?

Is it really worth meeting that status for a free seat?

"functionally disabled by obesity" seems to be a pretty key section in the ruling.

Sun Baked
Nov 21, 2008, 05:14 AM
I can see the need for this, they may accidentally eat or smother the passenger sitting next to them on a long flight.

MasterNile
Nov 21, 2008, 06:24 AM
And y'all are forgetting that these same airlines are the ones charging us to check-in and pay for every piece of luggage now. :rolleyes:

Lesson: eat your bags before boarding and you won't be charged for them and you'll get a free seat :p

arkitect
Nov 21, 2008, 06:26 AM
Lesson: eat your bags before boarding and you won't be charged for them and you'll get a free seat :p

Unpacking is going to be hell though…
:D

themoonisdown09
Nov 21, 2008, 07:12 AM
Lesson: eat your bags before boarding and you won't be charged for them and you'll get a free seat :p

That sounds like a good idea. I should also consider eating my wife so I can get another free seat.

Abstract
Nov 21, 2008, 08:31 AM
This is stupid.

You're not really paying for space on an airplane. It's real estate. The piece of property just happens to come in well defined units, and the unit happens to be the size of the seat cushion. If you need 2 of them, you should pay. You shouldn't have an option of paying for 1/2 a seat for a small child because the space isn't sold in half units.

mouchoir
Nov 21, 2008, 08:31 AM
Now all I really want to know is, do they get they get the extra meal that would come with the second seat?!

Dejavu
Nov 21, 2008, 08:37 AM
I think this is a good ruling... :)

adroit
Nov 21, 2008, 10:12 AM
I've always thought that passengers should pay a small flat rate per seat plus a cost per kilogram of passenger+luggage. That way those who pack lite will be rewarded and the airline will save fuel.

Then again, I'm a fly-weight and I always pack lite. :D

abijnk
Nov 21, 2008, 10:58 AM
People need to realize that not every obese person is that way simply because they eat too much and move too little. Such view points are narrow and ignorant. Cushing's Syndrome, hypothyroidism, and a host of other diseases make is extremely difficult or nigh impossible to lose weight.

I think this is an OK ruling, but I could see it being abused. The things that dictate the size of our body are sometimes well beyond our control. And sometimes, not fitting in an airline seat has nothing to do being obese and just being "big". Have you seen Shaq in person? The guys isn't fat, but he is enormous! It wouldn't surprise me at all if he didn't fit in a coach airline seat...

iJohnHenry
Nov 21, 2008, 11:05 AM
"functionally disabled by obesity" seems to be a pretty key section in the ruling.

It conjures up the image of loading them onto the plane with a fork-lift truck.

Shaq, in coach?? Never!!! :rolleyes:

abijnk
Nov 21, 2008, 11:06 AM
Shaq, in coach?? Never!!! :rolleyes:

It was just a for instance. ;)

atszyman
Nov 21, 2008, 11:39 AM
All space and weight on an aircraft costs money. Nothing is free, especially transporting live animals.

Weight requires fuel.

Jump on the scale with your bags, and we'll let you know how much we are billing your credit card.

That's one of my favorite gripes. Our oldest daughter requires a seat, our middle one will need one soon. We can pack all our stuff for a week at grandma's in one large suitcase that exceeds the weight limit by maybe 25%. They want to charge us extra for that. Yet we could each bring a bag at the weight limit and check 4 bags which would weigh over 3x what our one bag solution does. Navigating the airport with 2-3 little kids is easier when you only have one suitcase to worry about.

Ok so here's a different analogy from more of the business aspect:

Say an average person buys and eats a sandwich from a store.
Should an obese person get 2 sandwiches for the price of 1 because 1 is not enough?

Airlines sell seats. When planes fly with empty seats that chance to charge for it is gone..forever. So in order for the airlines to turn a profit they need the money from the seat.

So if airlines have to give away seats, do deli owners have to give away sandwiches? It's only fair!!!

Flip it, someone has a genetic high metabolism that requires them to consume more calories per day than the next person. Should the higher metabolism person get extra portions for free when they go out to eat?

Don't get me wrong, when someone is overweight to the point of considering it a disability through no fault of their own, then there should be some sort of documentation proving the disability and at that point I can see a free seat being given, but if there's no proof of it being a disability then it becomes something easily abused.

synth3tik
Nov 21, 2008, 12:00 PM
Honestly this seems like not only are they saying that it is OK to be obese, but that you also get perks. I have to be smashed into my 1 seat, while someone else gets to have the comfort of 2?

Makes me think of our public transportation.

Guy "Can you move over?"
Me "I am over all the way, The entire seat next to me here is open"
Guy "But I need more then one seat"
Me "sorry, There is 2 seats and I am sitting in one of them"
The guy then sits down on top of me pinning in the seat.
Me "Damn it, get the F off me. You can't just go around sitting on people"
Transit cop also on the train "Sir, I am going to have to ask you to get off the train at the next stop"
Me "Why"
Cop "Your harassing him"
Me "Harassing him, he SAT on me."

I was then escorted off the train because I would not let a rather large person sit on me. Personally I find the whole thing ridiculous.

juanster
Nov 21, 2008, 01:24 PM
Honestly this seems like not only are they saying that it is OK to be obese, but that you also get perks. I have to be smashed into my 1 seat, while someone else gets to have the comfort of 2?

Makes me think of our public transportation.

Guy "Can you move over?"
Me "I am over all the way, The entire seat next to me here is open"
Guy "But I need more then one seat"
Me "sorry, There is 2 seats and I am sitting in one of them"
The guy then sits down on top of me pinning in the seat.
Me "Damn it, get the F off me. You can't just go around sitting on people"
Transit cop also on the train "Sir, I am going to have to ask you to get off the train at the next stop"
Me "Why"
Cop "Your harassing him"
Me "Harassing him, he SAT on me."

I was then escorted off the train because I would not let a rather large person sit on me. Personally I find the whole thing ridiculous.

lol that was hilarious, probably not while it was happening or to you but that's pretty funny, and also really messed up...

chadabshier
Nov 21, 2008, 04:27 PM
Lets say that an obese person (who is taking up two seats for the price of one) also has schizophrenia (two personalities). Can my wife and I (two personalities) pay for one seat and occupy two? That would make vacations cheaper.

joepunk
Nov 21, 2008, 04:33 PM
I hope these dudes don't have to use the closet toilets. What next, the toilets are too small so make them bigger (which wouldn't be a bad thing for everyone).

What about meals? Would they get two meals because they are taking up two or three seats?

stevento
Nov 21, 2008, 04:40 PM
I think people should pay as one person even if they need three seats. Obesity is a disability.

MacNut
Nov 21, 2008, 04:54 PM
Why not just charge by weight, if you weight 50 lbs you pay less, 300 pays more.

dukebound85
Nov 21, 2008, 04:56 PM
Why not just charge by weight, if you weight 50 lbs you pay less, 300 pays more.

because as abstract said, tickets are sold on units and those units are designated seats

MacNut
Nov 21, 2008, 04:57 PM
because as abstract said, tickets are sold on units and those units are designated seatsBut as said, if you can charge for 2 seats why not charge half a seat for a baby.

dukebound85
Nov 21, 2008, 05:00 PM
But as said, if you can charge for 2 seats why not charge half a seat for a baby.

because you cant use that other half seat

think of it like beer. you cant buy half a bottle of beer but you can buy 2 if you need it as one bottle is the lowest unit lol

MacNut
Nov 21, 2008, 05:01 PM
What if a fat person only needs half of the other seat?

aethelbert
Nov 21, 2008, 05:02 PM
Now all I really want to know is, do they get they get the extra meal that would come with the second seat?!
Meal? What meal? Buying one from two seats is the same cost as buying two from one.

bruinsrme
Nov 21, 2008, 05:03 PM
What if a fat person only needs half of the other seat?

Then a real skiiny person can fly free

dmr727
Nov 21, 2008, 05:03 PM
Why not just charge by weight, if you weight 50 lbs you pay less, 300 pays more.

Because the airlines don't want to do this. If they weigh passengers, they'll have to use those weights for the official loading of the aircraft. One of the airline industry's dirty little secrets is that they get to use average weights for their passengers (and carry on luggage), and these days, those averages are far less than what's actually being loaded. As a result the airline gets to legally pack more stuff (people, cargo, fuel) onboard the airplane.

MacNut
Nov 21, 2008, 05:05 PM
I thought they were packing less fuel?

iJohnHenry
Nov 21, 2008, 05:06 PM
Seats, in the current configuration, have to be done away with.

You pay for inches on a bench seat. Problem solved.

aethelbert
Nov 21, 2008, 05:07 PM
I thought they were packing less fuel?
They load the same amount of fuel now as they always have.

Seats, in the current configuration, have to be done away with.

You pay for inches on a bench seat. Problem solved.
Flying EWR-SIN, I'll have to pass.

dukebound85
Nov 21, 2008, 05:08 PM
What if a fat person only needs half of the other seat?

then they buy 2. a seat is the lowest unit

for example

1/2 seat= buy 1 seat
1 seat= buy 1 seat
1.5 seat= buy 2 seats

etc

dukebound85
Nov 21, 2008, 05:10 PM
Seats, in the current configuration, have to be done away with.

You pay for inches on a bench seat. Problem solved.

school bus style eh? lol

iJohnHenry
Nov 21, 2008, 05:12 PM
school bus style eh? lol

Right.

And for seat belts, use the bar like they have on roller coasters.

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g158/MouseMeat/Smilies/MMafter03.gif

aethelbert
Nov 21, 2008, 05:14 PM
Right.

And for seat belts, use the bar like they have on roller coasters.

Then we're discriminating against short people! They can't fit: oh noes.

dmr727
Nov 21, 2008, 05:15 PM
I thought they were packing less fuel?

It depends on the price of the fuel. They'll tanker if it makes financial sense. But you're right, everything else being equal they'll take the minimum. But still, remember that a lot of flights occur in situations where the aircraft is weight limited by temperature, runway length, airport altitude, and so on. So it behooves the airline to be able to call the average male with bags 200 pounds, when the real value tends to be higher.

nanvinnie
Nov 21, 2008, 05:15 PM
i'm not too sure on what the price of 1sq in per flt hour is but on aircraft equipment, the weight penalties can be extreme. for instance, the new boeing p-8a maritime patrol aircraft, there is a $30,000 penalty per pound. when it comes to airlines, i'm sure it's not extreme, but every square inch and every pound matters. bottom line, if an airline can charge $500 per seat, and someone gets 2 for the price of one, they just loss $500. have a flight full of fat people, they're losing out on quite a lot.

dmr727
Nov 21, 2008, 05:18 PM
Right.

And for seat belts, use the bar like they have on roller coasters.


I've always said that if I owned an airline, I'd have a seat belt with a shoulder harness that would hurt people shorter than say, 40". So like an amusement park, you'd have to be taller than that to ride.

It'd eliminate the screaming kid problem. :)

nanvinnie
Nov 21, 2008, 05:18 PM
I've always said that if I owned an airline, I'd have a seat belt with a shoulder harness that would hurt people shorter than say, 40". So like an amusement park, you'd have to be taller than that to ride.

It'd eliminate the screaming kid problem. :)

that's too funny! hahaha

iJohnHenry
Nov 21, 2008, 05:19 PM
And, as a result the rest of us travellers subsidise their travel, via increased fair prices.

Oh yes, it will happen.

I think a doctor's letter is a damn good idea. Like one that gets you out of wearing a seat-belt up here in the Great White Farkin' Cold.

letsgorangers
Nov 21, 2008, 05:24 PM
Wow, people's true colors really shine through on issues like this huh? :rolleyes:

I have no issue with this. It might be best if the airline is notified within a certain amount of time so that no one gets bumped the day of the flight.

nanvinnie
Nov 21, 2008, 05:25 PM
i like what house said about seat belts... if you really want people to drive safely, have knives come out instead of an airbag... then people will really pay attention while driving.

dukebound85
Nov 21, 2008, 05:27 PM
Wow, people's true colors really shine through on issues like this huh? :rolleyes:

I have no issue with this. It might be best if the airline is notified within a certain amount of time so that no one gets bumped the day of the flight.

have you been on a flight these days? the airlines make sure the flights are packed. each of the 12 or so flights ive been on this year have had airlines requesting people to volunteer their seats due to overbooking or on connecting flights, asking people to volunteer seats due to weight issues of the plane

letsgorangers
Nov 21, 2008, 05:32 PM
have you been on a flight these days? the airlines make sure the flights are packed. each of the 12 or so flights ive been on this year have had airlines requesting people to volunteer their seats due to overbooking or on connecting flights, asking people to volunteer seats due to weight issues of the plane
I haven't been on a plane since 2002, so you'd know better than me. But I do think obesity is more often a problem instead of a choice, and those who are obese deserve to be comfortable on a plane just like anyone else.

decksnap
Nov 21, 2008, 05:38 PM
Flip it, someone has a genetic high metabolism that requires them to consume more calories per day than the next person. Should the higher metabolism person get extra portions for free when they go out to eat?


This is exactly it.

The answer is no.

aethelbert
Nov 21, 2008, 05:46 PM
It might be best if the airline is notified within a certain amount of time so that no one gets bumped the day of the flight.
That's among the biggest of problems. Those in need of special services almost never alert the carrier of their needs. They show up at the airport on the day of expecting everything to run smoothly. Countless times I've seen people show up needing a wheelchair when there are none available; it's quite the scene. If they'd have contacted the carrier prior, one would have been available and waiting for them as they enter the building. This will be no different. Mark my words, there will be a plentiful amount of people that do not alert the airline of this and will show up expecting two seats on a full flight. I don't really have a problem with them having two seats as long as the person:

a) alerts the airline at the time of booking
b) is not infringing on the ability of anyone else to travel.

By granting two seats to someone on a flight that is full, you are denying travel abilities to other people. The question is should they hand out freebies or sell tickets? If the flight is not full, then someone gets two seats anyway.

dmr727
Nov 21, 2008, 05:48 PM
By granting two seats to someone on a flight that is full, you are denying travel abilities to other people.

See that's the problem I have with this. If there are seats available - no problem.

RamblinWreck
Nov 21, 2008, 05:56 PM
See that's the problem I have with this. If there are seats available - no problem.

Agreed. If it's a full flight, the person needing two seats should be lowest on the totem pole.

XnavxeMiyyep
Nov 21, 2008, 05:57 PM
What if a fat person only needs half of the other seat?

Obviously, they'd sell three for the price of two!

cdcastillo
Nov 21, 2008, 06:01 PM
Can you be? There are people that eat quite normally and yet are still obese...

I call BS. You are quoting the friend of a neighbor of the uncle of a work acquaintance that told you that there was an urban legend about this.

Have you ever heard of the second LAW of thermodynamics? Google is your friend. I can only tell you that I still stand by what I said, either you eat to much, or you spend to little energy.


...Some have thyroid conditions ... medical conditions that attribute to them being as big as they are...

And the rate of obese people due to thyroid or other endocrinological disorders is less than 0.3% of obese people, still, 997 of every fat guy/girl you met on the street is so because he/she has chosen (although I concede, maybe subconsciously) to be that way. Or at least that's what they say with actions.

I am a physician, but don't believe me. Go ask your physician before you start spreading lies. Or you can read some examples of serious papers about it...

Obesity and hypothyroidism: myth or reality? Rev Med Suisse. 2007 Apr 4;3(105):859-62.
Subclinical hypothyroidism in obese patients: relation to resting energy expenditure, serum leptin, body composition, and lipid profile. Obes Res. 2001 Mar;9(3):196-201.
Doctor . . . Could It Be My Thyroid? Arch Intern Med. 2008 Mar 24;168(6):568-9.
Prevalence of subclinical hypothyroidism in a morbidly obese population and improvement after weight loss induced by Roux-en-Y gastric bypass. Obes Surg. 2005 Oct;15(9):1287-91.
Influence of obesity and surgical weight loss on thyroid hormone levels. Surg Obes Relat Dis. 2007 Nov-Dec;3(6):631-5; discussion 635-6.


And even in studies when there is no evidence to rule out a relationship between thyroid disorders and obesity, the weight difference between groups (Dysthyroid and euthyroid) are only about 1-4 Kg (about 2-9 pounds) and it's not clear which one is the cause and which one is the effect. It would seem that the obesity is the cause of dysthyroidism, because when you start losing weight, the hormone profile start going back to normal.

...Are the blind liable for walking across the road and getting hit by a vehicle?

Maybe no, but if they know they are not able to walk the streets by themselves (as many blind people can), and still they venture there alone, they are stupid.

And please do note that I'm not calling blind people stupid, I'm calling stupid people stupid (e.g., someone that can't swim but jumps out of a ship to the ocean when no one is looking).

gmecca2
Nov 21, 2008, 08:30 PM
Wow... As Others have already stated I would be real mad when traveling with kids now.

MarkCollette
Nov 21, 2008, 09:16 PM
Can you be? There are people that eat quite normally and yet are still obese. Some have thyroid conditions and others have medical conditions that attribute to them being as big as they are. Why can you be held liable for being sick(if that's the reason for your obesity)?

Should I as a profoundly deaf individual be held liable if a cop were to tell me to freeze or he'd shoot and I didn't do so merely because I did not hear him?

Are the blind liable for walking across the road and getting hit by a vehicle?

I hate how people always bring up that thyroid excuse, even though it's only a statistically irrelevant percent of fat people who have that problem. Total deflection from the reality of the situation. One more way that fat people pretend they have an excuse to be fat.

I don't know about liability, but if a cop tells you to freeze, and you don't, for whatever reason, there's a good chance you will get shot. That's the reality of life. Hopefully they are trained to recognise the difference between someone ignoring them and someone who didn't hear them.

For the blind people, it's probably more relevant about the condition of the accident, than about their actual blindness. Also, were they trying to follow traffic rules, or just thinking everyone should stop for them? Pretty complicated question, so pretty much a waste of time bringing up here.

Besides sumo wrestlers I think you'll find that nobody chooses to become obese. 90% is a pretty high number you made up for impact though ;)! What percentage of your 90% would be incredibly unhappy with their lot in life and are desperate to try and shed that weight? What percentage is due to diabetes/taking glucocorticoids for chronic disease? Should we get medical reviews to determine who is overweight by disease or by "choice" before letting them purchase a ticket? This is what I was getting at before - people just don't like the overweight. It brings out the sanctimony in everyone.

No. It's in little choices every single day of their lives, that they may or may not be too clueless to realise they're making. But still choices.

I'll take this a step further, why are people here saying that, if it is not their fault, that they should get it for free? That makes no sense to me. For some people, life costs more. Sucks to be them. Not up to everyone else to bail them out. Some people prefer higher fashion over jeans and a t-shirt. Costs more for them to dress. Tough luck. When I got hit by a car, and couldn't walk, it took more time and effort to do anything. Did the rest of society owe me anything? No. Tough, luck.

MentalFabric
Nov 22, 2008, 06:26 AM
It's similar to people who have smoked for their entire life relying on the National Health Service to keep them from dying from their self-inflicted condition. No. Just no. It's your own ****ing fault.

My Lord, the rudeness of some people! I believe the statistics in the UK are that smokers make about 5 times more money for the NHS than they cost it. I think it's fair enough considering the incredibly high tax on our freedom to smoke that we should be allowed to ask for treatment should we find ourselves diseased!

Stats:
Tax from fags = 8.1 Billion (Politics.co.uk)
NHS spending on cigarette related illness = 1.7 Billion (money.msn.co.uk)

We smokers are funding the health service for you :p

thecritix
Nov 22, 2008, 07:03 AM
if a fat person sits down on a chair alone in a empty room but theres no one around to hear/see the chair break..

does it really break?

juanster
Nov 22, 2008, 08:56 AM
if a fat person sits down on a chair alone in a empty room but theres no one around to hear/see the chair break..

does it really break?

lol omg that was amazing, yeah i really can't stand the whole, i just can't loose the weight, it's genetics, to some people it is harder to loose it becaus eof the genetics yes you are right, then why don't you work a bit harder and eat a bit less? it will work, you can't gain weight. it's all in the in/out take of energy...

Gray-Wolf
Nov 22, 2008, 09:11 AM
lol omg that was amazing, yeah i really can't stand the whole, i just can't loose the weight, it's genetics, to some people it is harder to loose it becaus eof the genetics yes you are right, then why don't you work a bit harder and eat a bit less? it will work, you can't gain weight. it's all in the in/out take of energy...

Not quite true. As you get older, your metabolism slows down. As a child, I could eat 2x as much as my dad, but gain nothing from it. Now, I eat less than a normal meal and risk gaining. Got to wear the shoes to know what they feel like. ;)

The only way I can loose the weight, no I'm not obese, is to do diet caffeinated drinks, green tea extract, and chromium picolinate and little real food. I did this over a summer 1 year ago and lost 45 lbs in 4 months. But it gave me terrible headaches the whole time.

juanster
Nov 22, 2008, 09:19 AM
Not quite true. As you get older, your metabolism slows down. As a child, I could eat 2x as much as my dad, but gain nothing from it. Now, I eat less than a normal meal and risk gaining. Got to wear the shoes to know what they feel like. ;)

The only way I can loose the weight, no I'm not obese, is to do diet caffeinated drinks, green tea extract, and chromium picolinate and little real food. I did this over a summer 1 year ago and lost 45 lbs in 4 months. But it gave me terrible headaches the whole time.

you are right, i didn't take that(ages and the fact that with age metabolism slows down) into consideration, but that still doesn't mean it's the only way to lose weight. I am a Mixed Martial Arts instructor and i hear that a lot (about 3-4 times a day) I am not sayiong you are lieing but if you worked out harder for short periods of time(this speeds up your metabolism throuout the whole day) and ate the same amount of food as you normally do you will lose weight.
I still haven't had a dsingle person at the gym that trains 4 times a week hard and doenst loose at least 5 pounds in the first month...

darkwing
Nov 22, 2008, 09:38 AM
Well, whichever airline lets fat people have two seats for the price of one sucks for the majority.

Anyway, what do they do with the seat belts? Fasten one around each monstrous thigh?

Actually they have seatbelt extenders. I've seen them. Scary stuff.

QuantumLo0p
Nov 22, 2008, 10:10 AM
So what about the folks that only take up half a seat, or small children? Why do they pay full fair?

One seat per person. Entitlements are are a slippery slope.

TSE
Nov 22, 2008, 12:34 PM
If I owned an airline I would purposely fit non adjustable arm rests in between the seats.

That would suck, some fatass would have an arm rest up his ass all trip long.

cdcastillo
Nov 22, 2008, 02:09 PM
A double quarter pounder with cheese super sized, 3 times a week.

But I only have that once a week!! :D


... I think you'll find that nobody chooses to become obese ... people just don't like the overweight...

We do chose our actions, and they have consequences... and hey!, careful when you speak of obese people, I'm one of them and I could get my feelings hurt by what you say. :)


...sedentary lifestyle and diet are the biggest reasons. im not arguning that these people want to be obese but it is mostly self inflicted as a result of the way they live

+1. I don't like to be obese.... Do I do what I need to do in order to lose the extra weight... no, I don't.


What would happen if these people with the stated condition were to eat less? Would they continue to grow even larger? No natter what is wrong with you if you eat fewer calories than you use you loose weight...

Exactly the conclussions of some of the papers I mentioned earlier...


I have a good friend of mine who eats half the amount of food I consume. He is over 300 lbs and does not fit in a single seat. Has been through tons of stuff, and cannot lose the weight...

Well, there you go, this could be the 0.3% of fat people due to ilness, or maybe he lies and eats when nobody sees him.



Enough of this non-sense. I officially stop posting on this thread, it leads to nowhere.

Nadav
Nov 22, 2008, 07:42 PM
I believe that as long as the flight is not full, they can give however many seats they want to obese people. I think it is wrong for somebody else to lose their spot on a plane just because somebody who is larger than them didn't inform the airline that they had this problem. If you are going to take up an extra seat, call the airline prior to your flight, if you are genetically obese or not.

On the other hand, there have been several discriminatory posts in this thread against obese people. Yes, most of them have the option to lose their weight, but I'm sure it is incredibly hard for them. All people deserve equal respect, whether you are fat or not.

The best solution for this issue would be to have larger seats on airplanes, it will be a win for all of the customers. :p

dmr727
Nov 22, 2008, 07:53 PM
The best solution for this issue would be to have larger seats on airplanes, it will be a win for all of the customers. :p

True, but unfortunately it seems that the seat size is going in the opposite direction. :)

Abstract
Nov 25, 2008, 01:47 AM
Lets say we have an airplane that has 8 seats per row separated into 3 "columns" along the length of the airplane so that the seats are in a 2-3-2 configuration. The middle column of seats of this airplane has 3 seats. Why not make the very back row of the airplane 7 seats instead of 8? Make the 3 seats in the middle column into 2 larger seats, so that each seat is the size of 1.5 seats. Most fat people will fit in such a seat. Instead of charging him for 2 seats, or for just 1 seat, charge him for 1.5 seats. That way, it won't be much more expensive for fat people to fly, and "normal" sized people don't feel like they're getting screwed over by paying the same amount of money for a seat, and only getting a "normal sized" seat. The chances of someone who's fat for a medical reason is small enough that having only 1 or 2 of these "fat person" seats should be enough.

Then the problem is that Business Class people will complain that the "fat guy/girl" seat is larger than their business class seat, and yet they 2x or 3x more for a larger seat, not just 1.5x.
then they buy 2. a seat is the lowest unit

for example

1/2 seat= buy 1 seat
1 seat= buy 1 seat
1.5 seat= buy 2 seats

etc

I think MacNut skipped my post. :p

Don't panic
Nov 25, 2008, 07:59 AM
I've always thought that passengers should pay a small flat rate per seat plus a cost per kilogram of passenger+luggage. That way those who pack lite will be rewarded and the airline will save fuel.

Then again, I'm a fly-weight and I always pack lite. :D

i agree.

it's also the environmental sensitive thing to do,as it encourages people to pack lite and overall saves gas.

a simpler alternative would be that the ticket pays for a fixed amount of total weight (say 200 lb for domestic and 250 for international), so the airline won't lose out in general, and have passenger pay the additional amount if needed (the charge should be progressive up to a full extra ticket max)

And it should be done 'per party': a family of four traveling international will have rights to 1000 lb of 'cargo', including themselves.

Dagless
Nov 25, 2008, 09:01 AM
Easily fixed-

Not-overweight; pay full whack
Overweight because of disability, thyroid problems, things out of your control; extra seat free.
Overweight because you just ate a lot and didn't excercise; pay for 2 seats.

*shrugs* ;)

Digital Fury
Nov 25, 2008, 09:25 AM
The article linked in the original post is misleading at best, the Supreme Court of Canada did not ruled that "Obese have right to 2 airline seats", only that it would not hear the case, which is something completely different.

As it is, the lower court ruling stands.

I'm wondering however why nobody is questioning the actual size of the seats on commercial airplanes in the 1st place, besides business and 1st class that is, because in all fairness they are ridiculously small to begin with. One could just as well claim that airlines are not meeting demand and that one ticket = one trip per person. Tickets don't equal or claim to be an exact floor space reservation, nor did I ever saw a hint of this in airlines terms & conditions, so why can't airlines provide seats "adequate" to their customers? Do they expect that all customers are alike? Why should it be their customers' burden to fit in their seats? Who exactly defines the size of a "typical" customer? Why airlines discriminates against tall or fat people?

For sure you can come up with a many assumptions and opinions about these questions, but apparently they don't stand up in Canada's courts of law.

Eclipse278
Nov 25, 2008, 10:45 AM
I'm wondering however why nobody is questioning the actual size of the seats on commercial airplanes in the 1st place, besides business and 1st class that is, because in all fairness they are ridiculously small to begin with.

Sigh. I always have to explain this. Because it's a business, and a business caters to its customers. Only a small percentage are willing to pay extra for first class, hence only a small percentage of seats are larger. Most people want to pay less to get where they are going, so in order to make a profit the airlines have to squeeze a lot of low cost seats together.

Lots of first class tickets = high prices = empty seats = bankruptcy

Lots of coach class tickets = low prices = lost potential income = could have made more and maybe bankruptcy

Iscariot
Nov 25, 2008, 11:13 AM
People need to realize that not every obese person is that way simply because they eat too much and move too little. Such view points are narrow and ignorant. Cushing's Syndrome, hypothyroidism, and a host of other diseases make is extremely difficult or nigh impossible to lose weight.

The percentage of obese people who have arrived at that state due to a legitimate physical condition is so low that it may in fact be statistically insignificant. A much more accurate assessment of causality would be linking obesity to a lack of proper nutritional education and psychological disorders such as depression. I don't say this because I want to "blame" overweight people for being overweight, but because I want to identify the real root causes and address them in a way that is truly beneficial and forward-moving.

Digital Fury
Nov 25, 2008, 12:01 PM
Sigh. I always have to explain this. Because it's a business, and a business caters to its customers. Only a small percentage are willing to pay extra for first class, hence only a small percentage of seats are larger. Most people want to pay less to get where they are going, so in order to make a profit the airlines have to squeeze a lot of low cost seats together.

Lots of coach class tickets = low prices = lost potential income = could have made more and maybe bankruptcyAgain these are just a bunch of assumptions built into a castle of cards, by your logic prices would always be too high anyway. You know what you also missed? that prices could be even lower if passengers would agree to fly stacked in chicken cages or standing, so how come they fly anyway?

Pricing would be more equitable/flexible, if you were actually renting floor space for the trip, plane manufacturers just have to be inventive in coming up with a system that allows that.

OutThere
Nov 25, 2008, 01:18 PM
Flip it, someone has a genetic high metabolism that requires them to consume more calories per day than the next person. Should the higher metabolism person get extra portions for free when they go out to eat?

I like this argument. I eat roughly 4000 or so calories per day to maintain my relatively skinny weight....I want double meals for the price of one!

macdim
Nov 25, 2008, 03:07 PM
Count me in as one who thinks this is absolutely ridiculous.

Smokers want their treatments paid for by everyone else when they contract diseases related to their horrible, disgusting habit and now the obese want the world to conform to them?

What is this world coming to?

I know some people don't have control of their weight for whatever reason, but when I'm in the food court eating my turkey sandwich filled with veggies and I see fat people stuffing multiple burgers or fried chicken, french fries, and humongous sugar-filled drinks down their throats, I am truly disgusted.

Therefore, my opinion is that those who truly cannot control their weight and have medical proof of a thyroid issue or other such condition, should be allowed to this service. Those who could be thinner and healthier but choose not to, do not deserve two seats and should not be accommodated.

reimerd10
Nov 25, 2008, 04:55 PM
This is absurd. Airlines should charge based on space and weight, just because somebody decides to be grossly overweight should not entitle them to any special treatment. If they want to indulge on a box of donuts for breakfast and 4 liters of coke a day that's fine but when they fly they should be expected to pay for the number of seats they need.

decksnap
Nov 25, 2008, 05:30 PM
Smokers want their treatments paid for by everyone else when they contract diseases related to their horrible, disgusting habit and now the obese want the world to conform to them?


Smokers pay a lot more taxes.

Applespider
Nov 25, 2008, 05:34 PM
There's unfairness everywhere.

I've got big boobs so I have to pay more for my bras than someone with average sized boobs because the stores argue that they take more fabric and engineering. When they're the same bra, I can accept the fabric but not the engineering aspect.

Funny how the same thing rarely applies in reverse. I take a UK10 in trousers which use a hell of a lot less fabric than a UK20 does (far less than in that bra) and don't need the re-engineered seams but pay exactly the same price for em.

And obesity for most is treatable. It takes willpower, hard work and time - it's easier to blame it on something else.

Weight isn't the be-all and end-all though since those muscular types who work out will have a higher weight than others but fit more comfortably in the seats.

apsterling
Nov 25, 2008, 05:37 PM
I know some people don't have control of their weight for whatever reason, but when I'm in the food court eating my turkey sandwich filled with veggies and I see fat people stuffing multiple burgers or fried chicken, french fries, and humongous sugar-filled drinks down their throats, I am truly disgusted.

So you're disgusted by me, yet I weigh only 105 pounds and stand 5'8"
Really?

bjett92
Nov 25, 2008, 06:01 PM
If the flight crosses the border into the us does that mean the obese person can legally be squished back into one seat since in the us they can only have one seat when they pay for one seat?

macdim
Nov 25, 2008, 06:02 PM
Smokers pay a lot more taxes.

Not enough to cover the salaries of the healthcare professionals that take of them and the drugs and treatments they require. Not to mention the treatments of those who may be adversely affected by another's smoking habits (second hand smoke).

So you're disgusted by me, yet I weigh only 105 pounds and stand 5'8"
Really?

I thought I said fat. You are technically underweight. And to clarify, I meant the type of food they are eating (have you read what the ingredients and fat content are in a BigMac, for instance?), not them as people.

I'll be the first to admit to occasionally indulging in some fatty foods, but obese people didn't get that way by eating veggies, drinking water and exercising regularly!

decksnap
Nov 25, 2008, 06:33 PM
Not enough to cover the salaries of the healthcare professionals that take of them and the drugs and treatments they require. Not to mention the treatments of those who may be adversely affected by another's smoking habits (second hand smoke).


I assure you, I've already paid in for a new set of lungs and then some, should the need ever arise.

apsterling
Nov 25, 2008, 06:56 PM
I thought I said fat. You are technically underweight. And to clarify, I meant the type of food they are eating (have you read what the ingredients and fat content are in a BigMac, for instance?), not them as people.
Right, but I eat that stuff just as often as many of them do.

aethelbert
Nov 25, 2008, 07:04 PM
If the flight crosses the border into the us does that mean the obese person can legally be squished back into one seat since in the us they can only have one seat when they pay for one seat?
Then what's the point? You have an empty seat.

macdim
Nov 25, 2008, 07:18 PM
Right, but I eat that stuff just as often as many of them do.

Then you are lucky you have a fast metabolism and you don't retain the fat as easily. They don't. It's the luck of the draw. Unfortunately, these people don't put too much emphasis on their health when they should. That is irresponsible to both themselves (which is fine) and to others in the situation we are talking about (taking up an extra seat on a plane without paying for it, which imo is unacceptable).

Also, just a note about you eating those things: you may be skinny, but it doesn't mean you're healthy. Remember that. You are what you eat.

I don't want people to think I never eat such foods and that I am a health freak (I'm not). I play sports, eat a decent diet and am in overall good health. I just don't agree with people getting special treatment for a "condition" that is avoidable whether it be obesity or smoking-related issues.

apsterling
Nov 25, 2008, 07:25 PM
Right. And I offset it because I can afford to with my metabolism.
I'll go to McDonald's and have my Chicken Sandwich and Coke (slightly healthier than the burgers) and then go home and have a bunch of grapes and unsalted nuts, and juice.

But I can afford those calories.
And I understand where you're coming from.

To tie it in though, because I'm underweight, should I be getting assistance in my flying, paying less cause I don't take a whole seat?

macdim
Nov 25, 2008, 07:28 PM
To tie it in though, because I'm underweight, should I be getting assistance in my flying, paying less cause I don't take a whole seat?

Do you want to share half your seat with another underweight person? Generally people try maximize the space available to them on a plane, within their one seat limit of course :rolleyes: .

apsterling
Nov 25, 2008, 08:02 PM
If I paid half-rates, gladly. :p

teflon
Nov 25, 2008, 08:41 PM
Nope. Why do toddlers that are required by law to sit in a seat they occupy a small percentage of have to pay full fair? If you think a large person should have to pay for two seats then a small one should have to pay for a fraction.

Actually children often pay less than the full adult fare if they're under 12. For example, I know for sure that on international flights from Air Canada children under 12 pay children fare. Domestic flight often don't offer the same service, but they can be had for much cheaper anyway.


How about people who cheat the system by not eating before they board and then stuff themselves during the flight? It's just not fair...
No matter how much you eat, you're not going to weigh more than 5 pounds without making yourself seriously sick. I don't think anyone is going to make themselves sick on a plane just so they can escape 5 pounds at the weigh in.



Who serves food on flights anymore? Well, I did get like 3 peanuts today on my flight, but not enough to tip the scales.

Who eat the food served on flights anymore :p;)?

If the flight crosses the border into the us does that mean the obese person can legally be squished back into one seat since in the us they can only have one seat when they pay for one seat?

Technically, as long as the plane is still in air then you're still in Canada, regardless whose territory it is flying above. As soon as long as it lands though, it would be counted as US territory.

bjett92
Nov 25, 2008, 08:45 PM
Technically, as long as the plane is still in air then you're still in Canada, regardless whose territory it is flying above. As soon as long as it lands though, it would be counted as US territory.

So they would be required to sit in one seat on a connecting flight then.

Melrose
Nov 25, 2008, 09:02 PM
I don't think they should get an extra seat unless they are ready to give me a perk for being thin. Giving an overweight person a free seat is discriminating against being skinny..

Oh, the world is unfair.

dmr727
Nov 25, 2008, 10:16 PM
I've got big boobs so I have to pay more for my bras...


So uhhhh....how you doin'?


;)

Eclipse278
Nov 25, 2008, 11:25 PM
Again these are just a bunch of assumptions built into a castle of cards, by your logic prices would always be too high anyway. You know what you also missed? that prices could be even lower if passengers would agree to fly stacked in chicken cages or standing, so how come they fly anyway?

I don't really get what you're trying to say here. I was just explaining ticket prices. I didn't assume anything. It's called scarcity. Say I have X number of first class seats, and Y number of coach seats. I want to sell each seat for the most amount possible, while still having a price low enough to fill each seat. Empty seats are lost money for me. That's the way business works. When ticket prices are too high, people wont buy them and planes fly empty. When ticket prices are too low, everyone buys them early and the flights are oversold immediately. The key is finding the middle ground where the flight is sold out, but at the highest price you're able to get. Now split that in half and if you're really good at it, you'll fill first class with just enough people willing to pay more, and just enough people in the back paying for just coach. Airline pricing in a nutshell. And are you honestly saying airlines should try stacking people with how much they complain already? On top of that the legal and safety reasons that would prevent that? You wouldn't be able to evacuate the plane fast enough in an emergency. Also lack of restrooms? As much as people want cheap tickets they wouldn't pay and wont be legally allowed to pay for that. How come they fly anyway? Because they agree that the cost of the ticket is worth the extra time you get from not having to drive. No one is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to fly. It's economics.

Pricing would be more equitable/flexible, if you were actually renting floor space for the trip, plane manufacturers just have to be inventive in coming up with a system that allows that.

That's the best part! We already have a system set up exactly like this! Floor space inside a plane is divided into little units, called "seats". If you want the standard amount of space on the plane, you can buy a "seat", and if you want some more room, you can buy two "seats" (or a first class seat!). It works the same way in the cargo area for your bag! We'll call those units "bags". Depending on your airline you get a standard amount of space in units "bags", maybe it's one, maybe it's two, maybe it's zero. And you can pay more to increase the number of "bags", or space you take up! It's really cool you should check it out sometime.

So I know it's cool and fashionable to hate airlines and think everything is so overpriced and the airline pilots are so overpaid, but I work in the industry and I know transportation has value.

MagnusVonMagnum
Nov 26, 2008, 12:59 AM
I think this is crazy. If you need 2 seats, you pay for 2 seats.

Link (http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssAirlines/idUSN2039776920081120)

I'm not exactly 'thin', but I do fit in one airline seat ok. I mean where is the cut off line supposed to be in Canada? Comfort? Hey, I want 2 seats just because I want the extra room and comfort and not having to smell my potentially unhygienic neighbor! Frankly, I think everyone should get 2 seats if fat people are going to get two for one. Why should fat people be rewarded for being fat? If they can get two for one, so should everyone else! That is only fair. Otherwise, they're discriminating against thin people by not giving them an extra seat also!

Mac Kiwi
Nov 26, 2008, 03:10 AM
Maybe tall people should also get extra leg room?


This ruling is just absurd.

OutThere
Nov 26, 2008, 04:45 AM
Maybe tall people should also get extra leg room?


This ruling is just absurd.

I like this almost as much as the double meals for people who have fast metabolisms...I'm 6'1" (185cm, not even particularly tall), and my knees press uncomfortably into the seatback in front of me when flying coach, even when sitting up straight. I want more leg room! :p

angelneo
Nov 26, 2008, 07:56 AM
I like this almost as much as the double meals for people who have fast metabolisms...I'm 6'1" (185cm, not even particularly tall), and my knees press uncomfortably into the seatback in front of me when flying coach, even when sitting up straight. I want more leg room! :p
<sarcasm>
Yes, I demand more leg room, we can cite economy class syndrome as an excuse. If obese people get 2 seats for free to be more comfortable, tall people should get 2 seats (in front) for health reasons.
</sarcasm>

dmr727
Nov 26, 2008, 10:28 AM
So I know it's cool and fashionable to hate airlines and think everything is so overpriced and the airline pilots are so overpaid, but I work in the industry and I know transportation has value.

Not everyone! I looooove airline pilots, and they need to be paid more, not less. :)

Gaelic2
Nov 26, 2008, 10:50 AM
Nope. Why do toddlers that are required by law to sit in a seat they occupy a small percentage of have to pay full fair? If you think a large person should have to pay for two seats then a small one should have to pay for a fraction. It's because the entire seat is occupied. They cannot put 2 toddlers in one seat. Obese people who occupy two seats should pay for it since airlines can only charge per seat occupied. To charge an overweight person for 1.5 seats and put a toddler in the other half is plain ludicrous!

Gaelic2
Nov 26, 2008, 10:53 AM
Not everyone! I looooove airline pilots, and they need to be paid more, not less. :)
If I am going to be strapped into a thin aluminum tube, going 500 + miles per hour, five miles up in the air, I want the best paid, happiest man alive to be the driver!

Don't panic
Nov 26, 2008, 11:33 AM
Actually children often pay less than the full adult fare if they're under 12. For example, I know for sure that on international flights from Air Canada children under 12 pay children fare. Domestic flight often don't offer the same service, but they can be had for much cheaper anyway.



problem is that, especially in international flights, children over two *may* get the 10% discounted 'children fare' on the full fare price only (not including all the taxes), when the regular customer will get better pricing just by shopping around.
so in reality, there is no discount whatsoever for kids (i have two): it much more convenient to get regular tickets. Furthermore, there might be strings attached to the luggage deal, too.

Dagless
Nov 26, 2008, 11:39 AM
Maybe tall people should also get extra leg room?


This ruling is just absurd.

Hear hear!

I'm not skinny much these days so I can't get half price tickets though.

Rodimus Prime
Nov 26, 2008, 12:34 PM
Maybe tall people should also get extra leg room?


This ruling is just absurd.

at least on that one tall people have a legitimate argument. One can not control there height. It is possible for people to control there weight.

Let me tell you being on the tall side it has it problems. I can not get a sun roof in cars because it eats up to much head room. more leg room on planes would be nice but no one bends over backwards to make sure I get it.

Abstract
Nov 26, 2008, 06:41 PM
<sarcasm>
Yes, I demand more leg room, we can cite economy class syndrome as an excuse. If obese people get 2 seats for free to be more comfortable, tall people should get 2 seats (in front) for health reasons.
</sarcasm>

I suffer from claustrophobia. I pretty much need to quarantined off from the rest of the passengers. Three empty rows in front and behind me would be nice.


Canada is a great country, but they sure do make some silly decisions sometimes. They're being too nice by even allowing airlines to make such decisions. I never understood why having standard seats for fat people was "discriminatory". How is the airline discriminating against anyone? This decision is more discriminatory, in my opinion.

Bariwasmypart
Nov 26, 2008, 06:48 PM
If I owned an airline I would purposely fit non adjustable arm rests in between the seats.

+1:D

MagnusVonMagnum
Nov 26, 2008, 11:31 PM
Let me tell you being on the tall side it has it problems. I can not get a sun roof in cars because it eats up to much head room. more leg room on planes would be nice but no one bends over backwards to make sure I get it.


You're not alone there. I ended up buying the wagon version of the WRX because it has 2 more inches of headroom compared to the sedan to begin with and then add to that the fact it's darn near impossible to find a sedan (short of ordering a brand new one) without a sunroof (which sucks up yet 2 more inches of headroom or so) and I ended up with 4 inches more headroom in the wagon over a typical sedan. I hate having to recline my seat somewhat in cars just to avoid hitting my head on the ceiling. Don't even get me started on cars like Miata. I can't even get my leg under the steering column.

iJohnHenry
Nov 27, 2008, 08:21 AM
Canada is a great country, but they sure do make some silly decisions sometimes. They're being too nice by even allowing airlines to make such decisions. I never understood why having standard seats for fat people was "discriminatory". How is the airline discriminating against anyone? This decision is more discriminatory, in my opinion.

Yes, it is, but it is discriminatory for a larger <no pun intended> segment of the population. And, being Canadians, most of us just shrug, let it pass and pay the higher flight costs.

We need more American gumption up our collective behinds.

chaos86
Nov 27, 2008, 10:17 PM
Headline Coming Soon:

Amusment parks in Canada forced to add cars with double seats to all rides, and increase weight tolerances on structures, costing millions, reducing profits raising ticket prices, reducing demand for amusments parks, and now we have no amusement parks. Because fat people couldn't stop eating.

prwood
Nov 28, 2008, 01:08 AM
Maybe price of the ticket should be based on all-up weight of passenger & baggage. Given that fuel is a large component of the operating cost & more weight = more fuel. ;) Hard to implement at the point of sale though.