World greatest hack!!!!

[mac15]

check this out

do this if you want to run VPC and mega speed like a real PC, its a little tricky but you can get it done


If you need to REALLY run Windows 95 at it's fastest on your Mac, do this with VPC: On another partition create a bare bones System (sorry, without another partition, this will not work), remove EVERY extension except the Appearance extension, and every control panel except the Appearance control panel. Then move the VPC preference file into the new System's preference folder. Also move the VirtualPC app itself into the System folder. Remove the Finder from the System, throw it in the trash and delete it. Use ResEdit to change the VPC app's 'creator' code to MACS and 'type' to FNDR. Then rename VirtualPC™ to Finder. Then reboot holding down "ShiftOption-Command-Delete", this will force your Mac to boot from a System other than your startup disk. !!DO NOT CHANGE THE STARTUP DISK IN THE STARTUP DISK CONTROL PANEL!! If you do, it will be murder trying to get it to boot back to MacOS. Now what you have is Windows 95 booting instead of MacOS, and the performance increase is more than double! Alas, you will not be able to use the MacOS while you are running VPC like this, but you WILL still be able to share ANY Mac folder!, but if you NEED to use Win95, this is the best way to do it Now to get back to the MacOS, just quite VPC as normal, saving it where you left off, and then once it has saved the data to the disc, you just force-restart "Control-Command-PowerKey", and your Mac will safely boot back to MacOS. BTW, all networking is STILL available from the PC using it this way, it's great! On my 8500/180 I am getting speeds that my PC loving friend says are faster than his 200MMX, so believe me, it kicks ***! If you want to play games on VPC, this is the way to do it.

[Hemingray]

Okay, I give in, even though it's Winblows that IS really cool. :D Does it work with any version of VPC? (for example, 2.x or 3.x?)

[irmongoose]

okay that sounds pretty cool... but I just want to ask... does it work with Win 98 or 2000, or even XP?? It would do fine with 98... just that 95 is too... old for what I want to run.

Thanks!

But hey, how did you find this hack?? Did you try it yourself?




irmongoose

[Backtothemac]

Has anyone pulled this off yet? What about with Windows 98, 2000, or gasp XP?

[AmbitiousLemon]

i tried it out about 2 years ago. worked perfectly.

you can do a similiar hack to run the os9 finder in osx.

[mac15]

I'm doing it now with VPC 5 and windows 98

let you know what happens

[clubmedia]

so what are you guys using windows for?

[AmbitiousLemon]

when i first did this hack two-three years ago my powerbook was cutting edge. i could run windows apps on my laptop faster than most peecee could run them natively... this was before the 500mhz slow down. i did it mostly just to show off to my pc friends. so mostly i was running games. i also used it for some... "internet security issues" yes thats a good way of putting it. havent touched vpc in a long time. i think im just as curious as you to know what people are doing with it today.

[AlejandroGonzo]

Hey, that's pretty cool. If you can play PC games with this at a decent speed, I'm sold, and will be switching from the darkside to a Ti800

















Well, can you?

[Beej]

Hey mac15 - I think I've been to that hotline server, too ;)

[Zenith]

I've been trying this hack with both VPC 4 and 5, but unfortunately I haven't been able to use Winblows with them yet. The main reason is that my VPC Disk image was created with VPC 5, so I couldn't get it to work in VPC 4, but I managed to start up with VPC 4 as "Finder", so a correct image file will work. I can't start up with VPC 5 as "Finder", though. I extracted the app from the VPC package and did all the necessary changes to the file, but when the comp starts up and tries to launch VPC 5 ("Finder") it only displays a gray menubar while the harddisk seems to work continously, like a loop.

P.S. if you can't get the comp to start up with the VPC hack, just open the startup disk control panel in OS X and select the partition with the fake OS. But if you do this you have to do a Open Firmware tweak to get the comp to start up in OS X again. And this is how:

Before you do anything you have to find out which partition your primary OS is on. So in OS X, open Terminal, type su and your root password, and then type pdisk, and when the CLI asks for top level command type L. Then you'll see a list of a lot of partitions and you have to write down the number of the partition with your primary OS. You have to use this number later in Open Firmware.
When you restart the comp after you have chosen the VPC partition as startup disk you won't be able to get the comp to start up in OS X by holding the command key and X down at startup. So you have to get into Open Firmware.
Hold down command-option-O-F immideately when the comp starts to get into Open Firmware.
Then release the keys when you see the terminal-like interface on the screen.
Type the following:

setenv boot-device hd:[number of primary OS-partition],\\:tbxi

Press enter.

Then type:

setenv boot-command boot

Press enter. And type mac-boot, then enter, and your Mac will startup in OS X on your primary partition. This OF tweak will work in every situation if your Mac won't boot up from the correct partition.

NB! This tweak only works if you've got the VPC partition and your primary OS-partition on the SAME DISK!

If anyone has been succesful in getting VPC 5 to work with this great hack, please let me know!

[mac15]

It won't work with VP5 because its a package and the finder won't work
it will work with VP4 which I hope to get soon

[whawho]

Originally posted by clubmedia
so what are you guys using windows for?

I use windows for apps I can't get on a mac (Access) and for testing websites in a PC browser.

[Zenith]

Originally posted by mac15
It won't work with VP5 because its a package and the finder won't work
it will work with VP4 which I hope to get soon

That's not the problem! Look inside the package and you'll find a folder called MacOSClassic with an application called Virtual PC (!) inside. The rest of the contents in the package is for OS X. You can extract the app and put it anywhere outside the package and it will still work.

[Beej]

Oh, and I forgot to say in my earlier post, I don't think this is the 'world's greatest hack' ;)

I'm not sure what it, but I don't think it would have anything to to with making window$ running fast on a Mac! :)

[mac15]

how do I do that?
do you need an app or is it drag n drop stuff....sounds dumb but who cares

[Beej]

Originally posted by mac15
how do I do that?
do you need an app or is it drag n drop stuff....sounds dumb but who cares Do you know how to use the Terminal? You can 'cd' into an app and see its contents etc.

[Zenith]

just control-click on the package and choose "Show package contents"... That's easiest.

[mac15]

thankyou will let you all know

[mac15]

It works!!!!!!

you don't have to remove all the extensions at first, you have to open the VPC package and take out the VPC for classic and then change it in RESEDIT and rename it finder and then bam you have a PCMAC :)

Its good cause I can play all my mates games

[Backtothemac]

How fast is it? Do you see a noticable difference? Is it worth all of the work? Also, could you provide step by step instructions if you think it is worth it.

[AlejandroGonzo]

Yeah, everything this guy above me said. Can you play any game on it, no limitations? Counterstrike for example?

[Choppaface]

ya can you do maybe some benchmarking too?

[mac15]

its about 20 to 30% faster
app launch is better and games are kickass, I have played quake1 on it and no probs it just depends on your mac....I will do some benchmarks for you all
does anybody know of any apps that do this on windows

[Zenith]

try SiSoft Sandra. Download it from Versiontracker.com.

How did you get VPC 5 to work? I've tried for a long time now, but my Mac just freezes when it tries to launch VPC 5 as "Finder". Maybe it depends on where you have the PC disk image file. I have it on another partition than the app itself, but with VPC 4 I was able to browse for disk images on all my drives. Maybe I have damaged preferences files or something...

Can you play games with hardware accelerated gaphics? I suppose not, and that will exclude the possibility for playing games such as Counter Strike.

[mac15]

all you have to do is install macos9 on another partion
then open the VPC package and take out the classic vpc app
open it in resedit and yada yada
put it in your system folder and then reboot
you can alwyas change back to your default os by holding down the option key a startup and choosing it

you can play 3d games cause it uses the mac GPU....enjoy
it all depends on what computer you have....but you can get away with alot :)

[Zenith]

Uhm.. You don't trash all the extensions? That's what I did. Maybe it'll work now.

[Zenith]

Ok. I'm in VPC 5 now, as "Finder". I started up with all the usual extensions active, and I can see a speed boost, but not a graphics boost. VPC doesn't use the Mac's GPU...

Which extensions do you keep active to get VPC 5 to work, mac15?

[mac15]

run a game..then it will work
I have no idea what extentions you can move...ask ambitiouslemon he knows
but its a nice boost

[kettle]

What happens if you don't trash the Graphics card Extentions or open GL stuff?

[Zenith]

hm.. not sure if you all got this... The thing is that VPC emulates everything! All the hardware. And it can't just override the GPU so that Windows can use it in a normal way. If Connectix had made more versions of VPC apps with different support for, or other drivers for the GPU then the app could take advantage of the Mac's graphics card. It would be nice if they could develope drivers for GeForce cards and ATi cards and deliver specifically designed application packs for Macs with these respective cards. However, this would take a lot of time and work, I think.

If you, however, can use the Mac's GPU in VPC, I don't have a clue how it works. All I know for sure is that at the current stage it's impossible to enable hardware acceleration for games in VPC... :(

[Backtothemac]

Ok, I am raising this from the dead. How has it gone with the hack? Any benchmarks yet? Is it worth it for me to move everything off my iMac to attempt this hack? Just trying to find out?

Please post benchmarks. The one that zeinth talked about works well.

[Stike]

I tried the key combo SHIFT, COMMAND, OPTION + DELETE but the PMac 933 doesn´t change the boot drive! Any possibility to swtch the boot drive without using the OS´ Startvolume?

[Zenith]

hold down option at startup.

[kiwi_the_iwik]

Goddammit!!!

Wouldn't it just be better if Connectix did a "Quartz Extreme" trick, and sent the windows redraw and DirectX commands straight to the graphics chipset?

THEN we wouldn't have to p!ss around creating partitions on our drive to run a substandard OS, just so we can play games at 10fps!!!

AAAAARRRGGGHHHH!!!!

;)

Hey - that's 200 posts for me... ...yay!

[Zenith]

congrats ;)

I know... Connectix should have made customized VPC programs specially designed to work with specific graphics cards. I think they would've boosted sales a lot when you could play CS in VPC... :D Or any other game that doesn't work on a Mac.

[Stike]

I did it! It works flawless!

I´ve just installed Warcraft III (the PC version is on the Mac-Disc!) but guess what it does not go further than the splashscreen. But WOW it does everything else!

I am CURRENTLY typing on the emulated PC. Internet works great here too!

Now I have to try to install games that actually work...

Screenrefresh gets a GREAT boost, as does Mousemovement (never seen it so smooth on a PC) and scrolling in explorer is also nearly smooth!

[mac15]

you installed warcraft 3, w00t!!!, I have to try this.......It will go good on my faster computer to .....

ah cool, let you know about it

[kiwi_the_iwik]

I know I've mentioned this before, but do any of you remember about 6 months ago, when some software engineers developed a process to emulate DirectX on the Macintosh for use with existing Graphics card drivers? It was created to assist in the porting of games software from the PC to the Mac.

How hard would it be for Connectix to implement such a system into VPC? It would theoretically be quite easy - DirectX commands from DOS and Windows applications would be translated directly to where it's required - the graphics cards - unloading much of the workload from the CPU, and thus speeding up the emulator by a considerable amount (definitely to gaming standards - and therefore it would make Connectix VPC an essential application on virtually every Mac!).

:D

[mac15]

I saw it, ah man I gotta get the link, they used it to port wipeout 2097

looks like its time for a google search

[kiwi_the_iwik]

Let me know what you find...

:D

[mac15]

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/coderus/product.html

here it is, its called macDX

[iShater]

Now, wouldn't it be nice if someone tries this on one of the new machines and runs a quick benchmark?

:D

[vniow]

Ok, this may be a stupid VPC question, but here goes:

What would happen if you tried to use a PC PCI card (like an Audigy or a decent TV tuner card) installed in a Powermac running VPC? (regular or hacked) Would the emulated Windows see it or would it just be blank, What would it do to the Powermac? Would it list it as unknown hardware or would it try to initialize it somehow? Forgive me if this has ben asked before, but I know practically nothing about how VPC works and I would desprately like to have one Powermac (when I can afford one) instead of one Mac and one PC.

thanx

[Chaszmyr]

Now it sounds cool and all... but lets thing for a minute. You are buying a mac (which costs more than a PC), still not running as fast as a PC, and you dont have all the optional hardware additions... Meanwhile you cant run OSX at the same time. Whats the point? lol

[iJon]

Originally posted by AlejandroGonzo
Yeah, everything this guy above me said. Can you play any game on it, no limitations? Counterstrike for example?
I don't know if any of you guys have ever noticed. I dont even think you can play games on vpc. someone may have already mentioned it but ill say it anyways because i havent read the whole thread. Right click on my computer and go to hardware. then go to device manager. take a look at the specs on the video card VPC sticks you with. thats right, a nice 4mb video card. and to my knowledge you cant change that. but i havent tried to play games on it, thats why my pc is for. it will be interesting if any one tries and posts there feedback on it.

iJon

[Lz0]

Why go to all that trouble just to run windows???

[Omad0n]

So after having read this whole thing I'm wondering, what differences have yo uguys notcied in games? Any? Some of you say that games are now playable, but VPC does say its only got a 4mb vid. card. So is anything with Direct X calls not playable? Any thoughts or sttements would be appreciated.

[coopdog]

I left all the extentions and it booted up. It booted up like 9.2 with the smiley computer and the mac os 9.2 window then the desktop apeared w/ VPC 3 running in a regular sized window and said that the c/ drive couldn't boot. Basicaly all i did was put the vpc app in the sys folder changed it in res edit called it finder, deleted the old finder, preffs, app support ect. and copied over the VPC pref file. DO i need to do any thing w/ the c drive? Put that in the sys folder too? Can you please help, thanks.

[coopdog]

Here's a screen shot of what it looks like. This is what win 95 said after it couldn't boot or find C/ drive. Is this what it is supost to look like when you boot? Read above.

[shakespeare]

Originally posted by iJon

Right click on my computer and go to hardware. then go to device manager. take a look at the specs on the video card VPC sticks you with. thats right, a nice 4mb video card. and to my knowledge you cant change that.

Ah, but you can change that, at least in VPC 6.

With your Virtual PC 'shut down', select the PC you want to change the video card memory for, press 'Settings...', and then choose 'PC Memory'. You will have options to change the amount of RAM and VRAM you allocate to your PC.

Mind you, the VRAM only goes up to 16 MB, at least on my system - perhaps still not enough to play games happily. But it's something.

[benixau]

Originally posted by Lz0
Why go to all that trouble just to run windows???

because there is no program like access. really. ms access is, well, access. and in a situation like mine, at a school, we need to use it.

i have to use it to complete my two computer courses for yr12.

of course ms cant be bothered to port access. why? filemaker has a hold and it is a huge program. access is IMO, the single most copmlex program in the ms office suit. it uses a custom db format to store everything in a relavtivley small file.

so there, thats why we run windows, oh and ahhhh quake and CS :)

[Einherjar]

ROFL, I remember seeing this hack waaaaaaay back in early 2000 on a Hotline server. Old as hell. Works, from what I've heard. I might try it, seeing as I partitioned my drive for an OS 9 only volume..............