Apple Exploring Liquid Notebook Cooling Systems for Cooler Laps

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/12/02/apple-exploring-liquid-notebook-cooling-systems-for-cooler-laps/)

MacNN reports (http://www.macnn.com/articles/08/12/02/apple.liquid.cooler.patent/) on a newly published Apple patent application which details ongoing research into alternative cooling systems for notebook computers.


http://images.macrumors.com/article/2008/12/02/141726-2-patent-5.gif

Specifically, Apple explores the possibility of a liquid cooling system for their notebook computers. Current MacBooks use air cooling, driven by internal fans; while this is sufficient, it is thought that future components -- such as faster video cards and quad-core CPUs -- may force Apple to use more efficient (and possibly quieter) cooling. Active and passive methods are being suggested.Apple suggests that the heat could be dissipated through an aluminum plate located behind the computer's display. This positioning would help reduce the amount of heat transmitted to the user's lap. This issue has received some press (http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20060519/1337223.shtml) after Apple warned that "prolonged contact with your body could cause discomfort and potentially a burn."


Article Link: Apple Exploring Liquid Notebook Cooling Systems for Cooler Laps (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/12/02/apple-exploring-liquid-notebook-cooling-systems-for-cooler-laps/)

[Tallest Skil]

I'd rather my computer not make it look like I have wet myself, thank you.

[JG271]

Hey, why not boil water and surf the web at the same time!
I would buy a macbook that made tea/coffee so fast!:p

If they can't get watercooling on desktops right, apple shouldn't consider doing it on a portable!

[azentropy]

But will it have Firewire and a Matte screen? ;-)

[AVonGauss]

I just wish component makers would just make components that generate less heat, I know, its a crazy idea... ;) I love my Nvidia chips, but even with a computer or laptop idling - its warm.

[fluidedge]

ummm can you say G5 cooler fluid leak?

[ilfn143]

what else apple didn't filed patent for?.... a time machine... no they have time machine... maybe a worm hole...

[kurzz]

"Oh crap!..my laptop's water broke!"

[MacFly123]

Sounds good to me. I am glad that they recognize potential future hurdles and are already hard at work on them. Can't wait for Snow Leopard and Open CL etc. :D

[aaarrrgggh]

Toshiba designed (and I think actually built) a laptop that didn't need the pump for the heat pipe; it was pure convection; water heats up, transfers through the hinge, cools on the back of the screen and falls back down a separate pipe. Wouldn't work if it wasn't oriented with the screen above the keyboard, but that is not exactly the design case. (OK, maybe on a plane or train...)

If you can get enough of a temperature gradient, you might even be able to pull off a phase change with minimal external pumping energy, which would let it work without gravity.

[Sussman]

I'd like to see liquid nitrogen cooled laptops

[djellison]

I remember reading of firms trying this YEARS ago - how can Apple be filing a patent for it now?

[GeekLawyer]

Jeez! About time!!!

[Vulcan]

I will not buy a water cooled anything - remember the PowerMac G5's?

[kmcrawford]

To be honest, the heat is crazy that comes off of my Macbook Pro! If you're wearing shorts your legs will be burnt in no time with that thing.

[platypus63]

I'm still rocking a liquid cooled dual 2.5 G5. It's a great machine, got faster with leopard, and center of my home recording studio. Maybe I just got lucky with one that has good plumbing.

[yellow]

ummm can you say G5 cooler fluid leak?

Seconded. Apparently they didn't learn their lesson. Though, what choice do they have? Consumers and developers "demand" that clock speeds climb, which means increased heat.

[MrCrowbar]

that's actually a pretty neat idea. The back of the display is a large surface with usually nothing touching it, so you got great airflow.

Might get tricky getting watter through the hinges...
How about a copper heatpipe? And LCDs usually don't like hot temperatures...

[joejoejoe]

does this mean quiet laptops???

very exciting if this is where they're headed.

[djellison]

I will not buy a water cooled anything

Better get rid of your car then.

[bdkennedy1]

I guess they didn't learn their lesson from the leaking G5's. Personally I don't want anything water-cooled sitting in my lap.

[pgifford]

that would open the door for more powerful laptops...and a moist lap.

[bryanc]

considering that the only time I've had a serious laptop failure was after spending an hour walking to work with my PowerBook in my backpack at -46, I'd want to know what effects this sort of system might have on the sensitivity of the system to cold.

Cheers

[The Flashing Fi]

I just wish component makers would just make components that generate less heat, I know, its a crazy idea... ;) I love my Nvidia chips, but even with a computer or laptop idling - its warm.

They are doing just that. When they do a die shrink of a component, it generally will produce less heat.

They then use the fact that it produces less heat to crank up the clock speeds more, bringing the temperatures up to where they were before the die shrink, but at a faster speed.

And if you look at video cards, mid range video cards use less energy and produce less heat than high end video cards from 3-4 years ago while offering better or equal performance. It's a combination of better architectural improvements (ie, better methods at processing the data) and the die shrinking.

;)

Manufacturers can definitely "make" components that use less energy by lowering the voltage and clock speed (if you lower the voltage but not the clock speed, the component will become unstable). You can do it with any CPU and video card (well, they generally make the video cards so you can't adjust the voltage, but you can still lower the clock speeds which will lower temperatures). The problem is, when you do this, the component won't be as fast.

[realfx]

horrible idea, horrible.

does anyone have links to people who have tried it.

[ilfn143]

Hitachi already have this... July 2002
http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/hitachis-water-cooled-p4-notebook-20020719/

[rpaloalto]

Wow.
I hope this is just a idea that stays a idea.
I don't care how well you design a water cooled computer. Nothing is perfect their is always a chance for failure.
Especially in a laptop. That is constantly being subjected to movement and jarring. No way.
Didn't Apple learn from the g5's. Allot of Apple costumers sure did.

[iMacmatician]

PowerBook G5 at last? :D:cool:

Current MacBooks use air cooling, driven by internal fans; while this is sufficient, it is thought that future components -- such as faster video cards and quad-core CPUs -- may force Apple to use more efficient (and possibly quieter) cooling. Active and passive methods are being suggested.Hopefully this will enable more powerful notebooks. MacBook Pros haven't exactly been at the cutting edge in performance. Perhaps the 17" MacBook Pro will end up with liquid cooling, allowing it to be a leap ahead of the 15" models like how the 15" is ahead of the 13" MacBook.

Assuming Apple will use this patent, when do you think this will turn up in notebooks? I'm thinking the upcoming 17" MacBook Pro is too early for this.

[Eidorian]

ummm can you say G5 cooler fluid leak?Very this.

Not to mention the abuse laptops take since they're mobile. Didn't Intel have some wonder system that uses the heat generation to power a fan? I know the technology for it isn't new but I forget the name.

[canisreevus]

Yea Chinese manufacturer, Compal, has been doing lid cooling as well.

http://www.mobilecomputermag.co.uk/20080407391/laptop-lid-cooling-coming-soon.html

[funnyent]

that would be awesome if it worked... but with the heat coming off of my current macbook pro I think the water would just boil.

[e12a]

i just hope those components aren't made by Delphi.

[fabian9]

Good god, if most of you all were running apple there would never be a technological advance! I'm glad they're looking into alternative cooling methods as the cooling fans are probably the most annoying thing in (almost) every computer today.

The idea of dissipating the heat through the display is very interesting. why not, however, go a step further and incorporate the CPU and GPU in the screen leaving only the heavy components like the battery and hdd (soon to be ssd) in the base in order to keep the balance and not cause excessive wear on - or require massive - hinges.

[puckhead193]

i think liquid and laptops and electronics in general shouldn't mix

[shiseiryu1]

To be honest, the heat is crazy that comes off of my Macbook Pro! If you're wearing shorts your legs will be burnt in no time with that thing.

I have the new aluminum 2.4GHz MBP and I have found it to not get hot at all. In fact, I've never heard the fan kick on and I'm always running Parallels and other stuff at the same time. My old white MacBook always ran hot but my new MBP runs relatively cool and quiet.

[Eric5h5]

ummm can you say G5 cooler fluid leak?

No, I can't: 4+ years of nearly every-day usage and no leaks.

--Eric

[Eidorian]

No, I can't: 4+ years of nearly every-day usage and no leaks.

--EricWhich model and speed?

[tsice19]

As mentioned above, I think Apple is taking the wrong approach.

If components are getting cooler, why not just use the excess heat to power a fan or your battery. It'd sure be better than running the risk of water damage.

[Eric5h5]

Which model and speed?

2.5GHz dual-processor from 2004. For some reason people wanted liquid cooling to fail, so I think the so-called problems were overstated.

--Eric

[Eidorian]

2.5GHz dual-processor from 2004. For some reason people wanted liquid cooling to fail, so I think the so-called problems were overstated.

--Erichttp://www.xlr8yourmac.com/systems/G5_coolant_leaks.html

You can add a 2.7 GHz model under my care to this.

[bplein]

Liquid cooling, folks, not WATER cooling.

There are video card coolers today that use heat pipes to pull heat away from the GPU and send it to additional heat sinks. I believe the current CPU/GPU coolers in our MB/MBPs use heat pipes. These heat pipes use a volatile liquid that vaporizes at high temperature, taking away heat via evaporation. that heat is removed by the remote fan or heat sink, where the liquid condenses and flows back to the CPU area.

The problem isn't with the liquid, it's with the flexible connection. If they can make a viable seal that will withstand the changing temperatures, the movement of the hinge, and have zero loss (unlike a air pressure system for tires that can have some loss as it will simply get re-pressurized), then this can be a winner. Preferably an insulated heat pipe to get the heat up to the top of the LCD panel, and then cool it down the back. Probably wouldn't even need a pump, this flow could possibly be done passively.

[waloshin]

What about carrying your Macbook through a winter storm , of coarse in a case? Wouldn't the liquid used in the system freeze?

[Nabby]

I read the title and wondered how you would make a liquid laptop! :D:D:D

I know Apple is ahead of the curve, but wow! :p

Nabby

[bplein]

What about carrying your Macbook through a winter storm , of coarse in a case? Wouldn't the liquid used in the system freeze?

Liquids don't all freeze at zero Celsius and boil at 100 Celsius. Iron is a liquid at the right temperature, so is Nitrogen.

There are liquids that will boil at low temperatures (well below 100 Celsius, but above room temperature), that are relatively non-toxic, and are non-conducting. These are manufactured for purposes just as we are noting here. Not sure what their freeze point is, but I'm sure there are good ones that freeze well below the temps we'd worry about.

[Eric5h5]

http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/systems/G5_coolant_leaks.html

You can add a 2.7 GHz model under my care to this.

Yes, that is the one and only link to any major problems that I've ever seen. Whenever this subject comes up, somebody posts that link, but you're the only one I've seen post anything in addition to that.

What about carrying your Macbook through a winter storm , of coarse in a case? Wouldn't the liquid used in the system freeze?

Of course not; there are any number of liquids that have a far lower freezing temperature than water. You can make water freeze at a lower temperature with a little bit of additive.

--Eric

[mklprc]

To be honest, the heat is crazy that comes off of my Macbook Pro! If you're wearing shorts your legs will be burnt in no time with that thing.

Get yourself a copy of SMC Fan Control. Set it to 3000 RPM for default, and max it out for the Higher RPM setting. I have had no heat problems with my MBP or any of my clients' MacBooks since installing that app. It's at version 2.1.2 right now.

[Eidorian]

Yes, that is the one and only link to any major problems that I've ever seen. Whenever this subject comes up, somebody posts that link, but you're the only one I've seen post anything in addition to that.Snap, crackle, pop, and blue-green liquid in the interior. Apple wanted about $1,000 replace the processors and cooling system. For some bizarre reason my predecessor didn't get AppleCare on it. We had to get a Mac Pro replacement.

[Courtaj]

Bananas.

[Courtaj]

http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/systems/G5_coolant_leaks.htmlThat page is soooo 2001 (although it says it's been updated just this month). Accelerate your Mac? Buy a decent html editor, methinks. (Not you, whoever marked up that page.)

[fabian9]

As mentioned above, I think Apple is taking the wrong approach.

If components are getting cooler, why not just use the excess heat to power a fan or your battery. It'd sure be better than running the risk of water damage.

So wait, you want to use the heat generated by the components to generate power to drive a fan to cool the components? How are you going to convert heat into electrical energy to power the fan and fit that device into a laptop?

Edit:
Also - i don't think the point here is to safe energy used on cooling, i think the point is to get rid of 1. the fan noise and 2. mechanical components. We'll see how well they manage to do this, but if they do it'll be a step in the right direction. in the end as soon as hdds are replaced with ssds the fans will probably be the only moving electro-mechanical part in the computer.

[Eidorian]

That page is soooo 2001 (although it says it's been updated just this month). Accelerate your Mac? Buy a decent html editor, methinks. (Not you, whoever marked up that page.)I'm sure that the web page design is a measure of its credibility. Why not to tell me that the dead 2.7 GHz Power Mac in my office isn't real too? :rolleyes:

[flottenheimer]

My "old" 2.4 GHz MacBook Pro gets extremely hot when placed on my lap.
My new unibody 2.4 GHz MacBook Pro doesn't. Not at all. Its warm but very comfortable*.

Fan noise on my new MBP? What fan noise? Also a huge improvement over the old MBPs.

Liquid cooling? Go!

* Using the 9400M - which I use 99% of the time.

[stompy]

i just hope those components aren't made by Delphi.

Excellent point! Liquid cooling works well when done right, just partner with a proven company...

[rychencop]

bring on the quad cores. i would buy one tomorrow.

[jmarte]

The liquid cooling technology has come a long way. See, follow this link and behold the beauty of the external liquid cooler. Although, you might have to upgrade to a larger lap!!
:rolleyes:
http://www.instructables.com/forum/My-Homemade-External-Laptop-Liquid-Cooling-System/

[wyrdness]

I've been thinking about liquid cooling for Macs for a couple of months now. I'm not totally convinced that this patent is really for laptops. I suspect that it may actually be for the iMac. So what's my reasoning for this?

There is currently no machine in Apple's range that uses a desktop processor. This puts Apple at a big disadvantage compared to other manufacturers. For example, all other manufacturers have had quad core PCs for a very long time now, but Apple still doesn't (crippled Mac Pro's don't really count). Until very recently there wasn't even a quad core processor that was suitable for the iMac, as they all ran too hot. Apple certainly doesn't have a machine that could accept the new Core i7. But with liquid cooling, they could easily put a desktop processor into an iMac and make it run silently. Liquid cooling is nothing new - many overclockers have been using them successfully for years now, and they're improving all the time. They're sealed units and shouldn't leak.

Until Intel released the 65w quad core chips last month, I was actually suspecting that Apple would release a liquid cooled Core i7 iMac in January.

[cherry su]

will this mean thicker laptops?

[Eric5h5]

Snap, crackle, pop, and blue-green liquid in the interior. Apple wanted about $1,000 replace the processors and cooling system. For some bizarre reason my predecessor didn't get AppleCare on it. We had to get a Mac Pro replacement.

I didn't get AppleCare on mine either. :cool: I actually meant to, but I spaced out on the deadline. Oh well, saved me $200; pretty much flawless machine really. I suppose I'll get a Mac Pro eventually but I'm not in a hurry.

--Eric

[bigevilalien]

Maybe now I can get that PowerBook G5 I've always wanted!

[akm3]

what else apple didn't filed patent for?.... a time machine... no they have time machine... maybe a worm hole...

They should have called 'Back to my Mac' Wormhole.
/edit: Or 'Can of Wormholes'

[alphaod]

Liquid cooling does not have to mean water. It would just be superconductive metal and they just dissipate the heat other ways. It could be oil.

[iSimx]

I don't know why a lot of you are against liquid cooling.. I definately think apple should look into something more efficient (hopefully) and definately quieter. Apple tend not to unimpress with new technology so we shall see...

[Hawkeye411]

Liquid?? Wow that's cool!!!:D

[Bubba Satori]

Sacrificing function at the altar of form, Apple created laptops too thin to properly dissipate heat without making them uncomfortably hot. The irony of hot, cool looking laptops. Think different, indeed. :rolleyes:

[137489]

Well, Liquid does take longer to heat up. Just up near the LCD worries me. while Dell says no, and claims it is abuse - many blogs have been about LCD's cracking after closing the lid, following long periods of use. Many people question heat.

I must have missed the article where Apple said you can get burns. I do no sit there with a laptop ob my lap. However, I know a disable woman who fried an IBM for using in bed on a blanket.

I worry about leaks. What will they use to cool, Considering they are going all Green - Water does not make sense.... Antifreeze is very corrosive if not diluted properly.

Well, atleast they did not go the route of one tech at CompUSA I spoke to a while back. He was telling me about his over-tweaked machine (in a small case - bout the size of the old HP mini/Micro towers). his way of keeping it cool - take a ziplock bag full of ice cubes and sit it directly on the CPU. :rolleyes:

[137489]

Sacrificing function at the altar of form, Apple created laptops too thin to properly dissipate heat without making them uncomfortably hot. The irony of hot, cool looking laptops. Think different, indeed. :rolleyes:

Not necessarily - I still say the problem I found when running in clamshell mode. the hinge blocked most of the vent. while ugly, maybe go the route of PC's... A huge vent with a fan right on the side. Side could be used as a hand warmer without getting burned - stayed cool on your lap.

I mean, they did away with FW, and it appears there is room on the sites of the machine.

[synth3tik]

We learned from the G5 that Apple has no business playing around with liquid cooling.

[Sun Baked]

Am I the only one that sees a problem higher on the disaster scale than the liquid cooled G5.

Running fluid through the top case and connecting it with a flex element or rotating coupler is a certain weak point that should give you a nice wet lap within 3 years -- an you won't be blaming the porn for it either.

[Benjamindaines]

Jeez! About time!!!

I'm surprised this thread went this long without someone mentioning a PowerBook G5

[bobertoq]

Liquid cooling, folks, not WATER cooling.Thank you! I have read this first couple pages and all I saw were posts saying water and electronics do not match. I think liquid cooling is a good idea myself.

[Joelg88]

How in the world can they get a Liquid Cooling System into Macbook or Macbook Pro? There's no space in there to fit a reservoir, radiator and pump.
1 small leak and your macbook or macbook pro becomes a macbrick.:rolleyes:

[sangosimo]

How in the world can they get a Liquid Cooling System into Macbook or Macbook Pro? There's no space in there to fit a reservoir, radiator and pump.
1 small leak and your macbook or macbook pro becomes a macbrick.:rolleyes:

or you could use a non conductive material.

[VoR]

or you could use a non conductive material.

If this technological revolution is a refrigerant heat pipe (like what you get in virtually every single modern computer cooling solution) and it breaks how will that help? Maybe the components being cooled will throttle/shutdown before damaging themselves, but either way you're still going to have to send it in for a repair - copper isn't cheap and refridgerents hardly fit in with the 'green' marketing campaign.

[PostTribber]

...at least they're worried about someday having a quad core laptop! that's a beginning. :rolleyes:

[Lesser Evets]

Well... let's see.... Mac has METAL, AIR, ELECTRICITY. Why not water? Oh, maybe because water f's up all three of those other components.

I can understand a water cooled tower, but a laptop? One good drop and the $2000+ thing is complete trash.

[Erendiox]

As someone who works with apple portables on a regular basis and seeing what customers manage to do to them... no... Just no. The last thing apple needs to put in their laptops is another fragile component that will total the machine if customers find a way to break it. They always do.

[SPUY767]

2.5GHz dual-processor from 2004. For some reason people wanted liquid cooling to fail, so I think the so-called problems were overstated.

--Eric

Wasn't that liquid cooling more of a glorified heat pipe solution than the hardcore fluid pump units that "extreme" omputers use?

[Eidorian]

Wasn't that liquid cooling more of a glorified heat pipe solution than the hardcore fluid pump units that "extreme" omputers use?I believe it was a scaled down self-contained liquid cooling system.

There's MSDs (http://www.apple.com/environment/resources/msds.html) available on the liquid coolant used.

[perrohunter]

That's obviusly going to be for "The coolest laptop they've ever made"

[Courtaj]

For goodness' sake, it's only a patent application. Take a look at the graphic: it's a concept, not a statement of immediate intent!

[DAAAAAAAVE]

damn that would be cool. loloololololol couldnt help the pun. but yeah my laptop is hot as and liquid cooling would be a good solution if they could make it decent. would mess with the whole "has someone spilled something on their laptop" warranty claim. you could just make a leak in your liquid cooling if you did and warranty claim

[djellison]

Hitachi already have this... July 2002
http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/hitachis-water-cooled-p4-notebook-20020719/

Bingo - as I said earlier - I knew I'd read somewhere of another firm trying it a long time ago - so what exactly, are Apple trying to patent here?

[Firefly2002]

Yay! Powerbook G5!

This is really a bad idea.

[iSamurai]

...heat could be dissipated through an aluminum plate located behind the computer's display.

Isn't the laptop casing itself made out of aluminium???

[DAAAAAAAVE]

Isn't the laptop casing itself made out of aluminium???

Yes so it could use the back of the display itself as a heat sink.

[Sesshi]

Jeez! About time!!!

It's MR's Rickroll, isn't it? :p

Thing is though - we've had liquids in our laptops for some time in the form of heatpipes. Active liquid cooling would be a very good idea, although I'm pretty sure that Apple will do the prettiest and least effective version of it once it becomes prevalent.

[diamond.g]

I am not sure why so many here think Apple would use a conductive liquid for cooling. I guess many here are expecting Apple to take the cheap way out.

[djellison]

many here are expecting Apple to take the cheap way out.

That's what they do.

[SeanMcg]

,although I don't know why, that people seem to think that innovation and technology advances are dead, or that engineers cannot learn from past mistakes.

Of the negative posts I've seen here, I haven't seen very many that don't refer to past mistakes or old technology. The conclusion is then drawn that it is therefore a bad idea.

On a more positive note, I could envision a hinge where the heated fluid travels through the length of the hinge in a tube. That tube would be surrounded by another tube perhaps, or other elements, transferring the heat into a radiator system in the back of the display. The tube wouldn't have to flex and could be a part of the hinge itself. None of the fluid would enter the display.

Notice I said fluid, and I make no assumptions on what that would be.

Just an idea.

[The Flashing Fi]

As mentioned above, I think Apple is taking the wrong approach.

If components are getting cooler, why not just use the excess heat to power a fan or your battery. It'd sure be better than running the risk of water damage.

You do know that there is no heat to energy converters (not a direct conversion process). The only way that I can think of to get heat into electric energy is by using the heat to heat up a water in a water tank and using the water to power a turbine, which could be hooked up to a fan or generator. But that would still require a fluid, a turbine, a compressor (to expel heat) and a heat pump (which would have to be driven by the turbine).

As you can see, it really wouldn't be feasible in a laptop.

[thecritix]

At the end of the day, anything that makes laptops cooler and is well produced doesn't bother me.

So long as it doesn't leak. If my lap is cooler i don't care how they do it.

To me this idea is a non conductive liquid flowing straight over the 'chips' (i dont have a great knowledge of laptop internals!)

That would be clever no?

[iMat77]

So one could still cool the notebook while closed (when working with a cinema display for instance) without limiting the airflow of the machine. The second thing is that the computer could get really quiet (more than today, even if I am already happy with it).

The problem is that any liquid flowing from the bottom casing to the rear screen must have a bendable pipe somewhere below the screen.. (ben once, twice, three times.... it is prone to breaking!).

The second problem I see is the liquid's "inertia" (it must flow in order to dissipate heat). I am no engineer, but if I shut down the computer after intensive use I might get some really hot liquid close to the CPU. This heat will not be dissipated unless the liquid flows.

I think the idea is, in itself, really interesting and might open lots of new possibilities, but on the other hand poses a great amount of challenges.

Having a slightly thicker screen doesn't bother me that much, as its thickness is not percieved when open and, if the weight is well balanced, doesn't create discomfort in use.

[Mal]

OK, I'm confused at some of the comments here. Why would any part of this system have to bend? It doesn't have to enter the screen hinge, merely reach that area to access the vents. The entire system could be completely sealed and stationary, so no significant points of failure unless there was a very poor design (which Apple is good at eliminating design flaws).

jW

[DAAAAAAAVE]

OK, I'm confused at some of the comments here. Why would any part of this system have to bend? It doesn't have to enter the screen hinge, merely reach that area to access the vents. The entire system could be completely sealed and stationary, so no significant points of failure unless there was a very poor design (which Apple is good at eliminating design flaws).

jW

People are saying that parts need to bend because the back of the screen would be used as a heat sink and the actual heat would be coming from components in the base (CPU etc.) meaning that the liquid would need to move from the components, through the hinge to the back of the screen then back again.

[flottenheimer]

How come there are 58 Positives and 63 Negatives on a story that basically confirms that Apple believes in innovation?

R&D is a good thing my friends.

[bilbo--baggins]

I guess they didn't learn their lesson from the leaking G5's. Personally I don't want anything water-cooled sitting in my lap.

First thing I thought of too.

Should come with a warning: beware - this product will completely self destruct after the warranty expires.

But hey - at least it's recyclable.

[joboy]

How come there are 58 Positives and 63 Negatives on a story that basically confirms that Apple believes in innovation?

R&D is a good thing my friends.

I had a PowerMac dual G5 that was pampered and undamaged. No moving around for three years. It sprung a leak in the cooling system and trashed the motherboard and power supply. Apple gave up trying to fix it and gave me a new Mac Pro. They treated me well, but it cost me a lot of uncompensated downtime that is lost income to me. I believe that they should learn from their past mistakes. In addition, laptops suffer a lot of bumps and stress that a desktop does not. They're now experimenting with a vulnerable system in a riskier, mobile environment. I surely won't buy one. Make that 64 negatives.

[tonyl]

No, no more liquid cooling!! Think about terrible leakage of liquid cooled G5s after 2-3 years.

[Mal]

I had a PowerMac dual G5 that was pampered and undamaged. No moving around for three years. It sprung a leak in the cooling system and trashed the motherboard and power supply. Apple gave up trying to fix it and gave me a new Mac Pro. They treated me well, but it cost me a lot of uncompensated downtime that is lost income to me. I believe that they should learn from their past mistakes. In addition, laptops suffer a lot of bumps and stress that a desktop does not. They're now experimenting with a vulnerable system in a riskier, mobile environment. I surely won't buy one. Make that 64 negatives.

Learning from past mistakes is a good thing. Running away from a good technology because of a past mistake in implementation is a bad thing. Just because they messed up doesn't mean they should never try again, and obviously if they do it'll have been after years of research into making sure it will work properly this time. Apple doesn't want to repeat that mistake either. They just want to put that technology to good use (assuming they intend to actually make these liquid cooled laptops).

jW

[tonyrobbins]

2.5GHz dual-processor from 2004. For some reason people wanted liquid cooling to fail, so I think the so-called problems were overstated.

--Eric

Name a reason.. a valid reason.

I had the exact same 2.5 dualie g5. 4 years and a month after purchase, the liquid coolant leaked, took down the mother board, power supply, ram and airport card. Apple acknowledged the coolant problem as wide-spread and honored the month-expired Apple Care. After multiple repair attempts, sent me a new Mac Pro.

Lucky you to still have it working. You're 4 years in? Snap out of your state of denial. Your machine is doooooooooooomed! buahahahaaa:eek:

[twoodcc]

i just don't think this is a good idea. it just seems like it's bound to mess up, and if it does, mess up bad

[The Flashing Fi]

One thing that concerns me is weight. In a desktop, it's not so much of a problem. But in a laptop, it's a pretty critical thing. The plastic fans they use don't weigh much. If they end up needing to use a lot of fluid and a non-fan design, it could add more weight then what a fan adds to the laptop. Noise doesn't bother me, but weight does.

[MrZebra]

One thing that concerns me is weight. In a desktop, it's not so much of a problem. But in a laptop, it's a pretty critical thing. The plastic fans they use don't weigh much. If they end up needing to use a lot of fluid and a non-fan design, it could add more weight then what a fan adds to the laptop. Noise doesn't bother me, but weight does.

What really scares me is that I totally see them sacrificing the quality of the cooling implant in order to cointain the weight and thickness since they seem to be so obsessed with that. Form over functionality, same old same old.

[akutad]

Come on people. Apple's core misson is inovation. The reason that they are so sucessful is because they are willing to go where the common perso. Is afraid to fail. I'm quite certain that after doing a post mordem on the liquid coped G5 ,they have figured out a different aproach.

[jbernie]

This could be interesting... and it will work... it really will work.. right up to the point they try and take one of the concepts through Airport security and get arrested for being a terrorist and the concept is taken out back and destroyed in a controlled explosion.