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echo44
Dec 5, 2008, 12:38 PM
Bought an air that had thin lines
had to return it have been waiting to see if apple has fixed the problem
any word yet?



byke
Dec 5, 2008, 02:56 PM
My week 46 seems ok....

GoCubsGo
Dec 5, 2008, 03:02 PM
There is nothing wrong with the MB Air screens.

Ironic
Dec 5, 2008, 03:15 PM
There is nothing wrong with the MB Air screens.

I am with Jessica on that one.

Loki.Mephisto
Dec 5, 2008, 03:25 PM
There is nothing wrong with the MB Air screens.

I absolutely disagree. How can you say that? Numerous reports are out there! :confused:
Thatīs nothing less than ridiculous!

Obviously the faulty displays are still beeing sold.
Obviously some people cannot stand criticism on Apple, even if well-founded

McGilli
Dec 5, 2008, 03:28 PM
If all people were satisfied with their screens - then the HUGE 25 page thread about the thin lines would not still be on page 1 of this forum.

So to answer your question - NO - not everyone is satisfied with their screens. I am, as well are many others, but not everyone.

StefanR.
Dec 5, 2008, 03:41 PM
my third Air is on the way....

frifra
Dec 5, 2008, 04:27 PM
Hey guys, so this might be then the continuation of the first thread:

All of you, who might be new to this topic, please read at least:

- http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=594520

- http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=6603546&postcount=134

- GOOD SUMMARY: http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=6688398&postcount=410

- Forum Summary http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=6702879&postcount=527

- latest news on how to fix the FLICKERING: http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=6714050&postcount=578

First, I want to thank Blue Velvet (Moderator), as he had a lot of trouble with the thread. So I want to remind you, only to post new information on this topic here, and not flaming anyone, and if anyone does so, dont respond to it (OR DO IT PLEASE BY PM (private message))

THANKS!

Further I want to say, that I when I looked at the screen of the Rev.B compared to Rev.A (Canada, Toronto Yorkdale Apple Store), that I recognised clearly, that the screen of REV. B was not properly put into the case. The screen was not parallel, I could tell by the distance of the Menu Bar on the bottom to the case. Or is there any possibility to adjust the screen (clockwise or anti-clockwise) like other stand-alone screens?

davnee
Dec 5, 2008, 04:59 PM
There is nothing wrong with the MB Air screens.

Patently ridiculous statement. My screen was faulty with lines and graininess and caused almost immediate eye burn, and no less than 5 of my coworkers immediately agreed with my assessment the first day I had it out of the box. It went back the very next day.

My Air is currently being serviced. Apple says they are replacing my screen instead of sending me a new computer. I am curious to see if this approach works. Has anybody else had Apple replace their screens as an attempted solution?

GoCubsGo
Dec 5, 2008, 05:06 PM
If all people were satisfied with their screens - then the HUGE 25 page thread about the thin lines would not still be on page 1 of this forum.

So to answer your question - NO - not everyone is satisfied with their screens. I am, as well are many others, but not everyone.
25 pages, if moderated to exclude the fighting and bs, then you have 5 pages of "problems" and only two pics with actual "evidence".

Loki.Mephisto
Dec 5, 2008, 05:10 PM
25 pages, if moderated to exclude the fighting and bs, then you have 5 pages of "problems" and only two pics with actual "evidence".

*unbelievable*

Lack of evidence is not evidence of a lack!

Why are you just ignoring/denying all the reports of so many people?

frifra
Dec 5, 2008, 05:21 PM
May I all kindly remind you, only to bring up new information?

I just want to say, that nobody here would make up a problem which doesnt exist. There is no point in doing so.

Please accept, that some poeple might have this problem, so there is no reason for them to complain about eyeburn without any reason. Nobody can better tell what somebodys else problem is, than the person itself.

This Thread is not to discuss if YOU think if there is a problem or not. This thread is to find a solution. If people just wouldnt like the product, they wouldnt buy it and not be so concerned.

THANKS!

EDIT: If somebody would find a way to display/show the problem easily and take a picture we all would be better off.

Did anyone try yet to open the picture, which I said will show the flickering? Did it flicker? If yes/no, which display options have you choosen? http://www.keithstravels.com/travelog/photos/desktopsplit-loginscreen.jpg

frifra
Dec 5, 2008, 05:57 PM
I'm going to kindly ask the moderator to close this thread as it's already turning into the other Horizontal Lines thread.

I concur, there's nothing wrong with the MBA's screen.

I think we can keep us up to date with the newest information on this issue, which some people facing. In a kind way, without yelling at each other (therefore we can use PM ;) ).

So please only post if you have new information or questions. If you are not sure if your question is new, I dont even mind contacting me by PM. THANKS


PS: Please solve personal things through PM, please!

Blue Velvet
Dec 5, 2008, 06:00 PM
Chill everybody. I'm not going to close this thread. If you think there is no problem with the MBA screens, then don't post in here.

kyrules2008
Dec 5, 2008, 06:05 PM
- latest news on how to fix the FLICKERING: http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=6714050&postcount=578



This is quite interesting because as I posted on the other thread, my MBP with LED backlit screen had some amount of flickering when I had the test image on it. But by selecting different Display Profiles while having the test image on it, I was able to either eliminate the flickering or reintroduce it.

I had been to two different Apple stores where I was able to see the flickering on two separate rev B. MBAs but not on rev A. MBAs. I will go to one of the two, and try different Display Profiles on rev B. MBA.

If I can find a profile that stops the flickering, I may just buy an MBA this weekend.

Thanks for the links.

P.S. My MBP is set to use Color LCD profile and by selecting 2.2. Television Gamma, I can get rid of the flickering.

frifra
Dec 5, 2008, 06:20 PM
If I can find a profile that stops the flickering, I may just buy an MBA this weekend.

Thanks for the links.

P.S. My MBP is set to use Color LCD profile and by selecting 2.2. Television Gamma, I can get rid of the flickering.

As I mentioned in the old thread I think, an apple store employee choosed a display setting starting with a "W" - with this one the flickering was totally gone! - so this is definitly a software issue, I would say.

lincolnchee
Dec 5, 2008, 06:24 PM
As I mentioned in the old thread I think, an apple store employee choosed a display setting starting with a "W" - with this one the flickering was totally gone! - so this is definitly a software issue, I would say.

May I know do you refer to:
- Click on "System Preferences"
- Click on "Displays"
- Click on the tab "Color"
- Uncheck "Show Profiles for this display only"
- ??? Can I know the exact name of the profile. Is it call "Web Safe Color"?

Does it makes the annoying lines disappear too ?

kyrules2008
Dec 5, 2008, 06:35 PM
May I know do you refer to:
- Click on "System Preferences"
- Click on "Displays"
- Click on the tab "Color"
- Uncheck "Show Profiles for this display only"
- ??? Can I know the exact name of the profile.

Does it makes the annoying lines disappear too ?

Bring up the test image on a full screen Safari or FF. Follow the steps listed above. After the step 4, select any of the Display Profiles that show up after you uncheck "Show Profiles...". See if the flickering disappears. If it does, see if the lines disappear.

If the flickering doesn't go away, click on 'Calibrate' button on the right side of the Display Preference window. Click 'Continue'. You will see the "Select a target gamma" page. On my MBP, "1.8 Standard Gamma" was selected. Select "2.2 Television Gamma" instead. Does the flickering go away? If so, what about the lines? If the flickering doesn't go away, I can save my trip to an Apple store.

Thanks.

frifra
Dec 5, 2008, 06:37 PM
Yeah, you described the steps very well!

I dont know the exact name though, but it was something with "w". How many start with a "w" and how are they called. I might recall it then.

But as I said, It was flickering much more, when the image was reduced and not at its full size.

UPDATE: I think there are two tabs, one is called COLOR, the other is DISPLAY?? you have to choose the one called display or whatever the name is, but not color!

EDIT: ITS CALLED COLOR - my apologies, I just checked it!

McGilli
Dec 5, 2008, 06:45 PM
25 pages, if moderated to exclude the fighting and bs, then you have 5 pages of "problems" and only two pics with actual "evidence".

I agree. I posted in the original thread that there seems to be a low number of people affected that took the online poll here about the issue. i think now it is about 25 people affected.

At the same time - many of those people have tried multiple machines and had the same issue on subsequent MBA's. Seems to be there are bad runs of the lcd display and certain lots are allocated to certain stores explaining why some people return them and get another bad one? and others like us get perfect machines?

Anyways - SUMMARY is people have said apple is sending some of their returned displays to R&D etc for research and to be diagnosed - and everyone else is just waiting.

h1d
Dec 5, 2008, 07:37 PM
And those display on Apple Stores, and while I'm scared to add anything to make Apple look bad, but if the Apple Stores can't actually pull out the perfect model for their own stores, what is going on? And I had to think they can't display rev B in various locations (the local store + apple store I visited neither had rev B, and I asked the reason and they go 'the stock is low'... I see the HDD model is definitely low on stock but don't think SSD one was, especially at the Apple Store.) because they actually internally know about the defect and just not putting it there. I don't understand why they can't display the newest models right there.

And links to some of the external references that popped up so far,


Apple's forum thread (http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1786926)
A blog entry at eweek (http://blogs.eweek.com/applewatch/content/macbook/is_light_macbook_air_defect_heavy.html)
slashdot story (http://apple.slashdot.org/apple/08/12/05/135207.shtml)
another blog at tidbits.com (http://db.tidbits.com/article/9910)
Test image for flickering (http://www.keithstravels.com/travelog/photos/desktopsplit-loginscreen.jpg)
Possibly (or not) related story about MBP GPU defect admitted by Apple (http://apcmag.com/apple_acknowledges_macbook_pro_graphics_glitch_offers_fix.htm)
A slashdot comment actually describing the problem (http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1052391&cid=26002107) (But I don't understand where the source "C't" is. And a few replies on it talk about calibration problem too.)

YOKOJP
Dec 5, 2008, 07:45 PM
Patently ridiculous statement. My screen was faulty with lines and graininess and caused almost immediate eye burn, and no less than 5 of my coworkers immediately agreed with my assessment the first day I had it out of the box. It went back the very next day.

My Air is currently being serviced. Apple says they are replacing my screen instead of sending me a new computer. I am curious to see if this approach works. Has anybody else had Apple replace their screens as an attempted solution?

My MBA is also currently being serviced. When I told them about the lines they said most likely be the graphic board. I'll get an email from them next week to see what they can do about it.

lincolnchee
Dec 5, 2008, 09:09 PM
Bring up the test image on a full screen Safari or FF. Follow the steps listed above. After the step 4, select any of the Display Profiles that show up after you uncheck "Show Profiles...". See if the flickering disappears. If it does, see if the lines disappear.

If the flickering doesn't go away, click on 'Calibrate' button on the right side of the Display Preference window. Click 'Continue'. You will see the "Select a target gamma" page. On my MBP, "1.8 Standard Gamma" was selected. Select "2.2 Television Gamma" instead. Does the flickering go away? If so, what about the lines? If the flickering doesn't go away, I can save my trip to an Apple store.

Thanks.

Even with the 2.2 setting, it is still flickering. The colors though are vibrant and deeper.

arkhe
Dec 5, 2008, 09:43 PM
Hello

I just wanted to chime in that I, too, tried calibrating the screen on the MBA Rev 2 that was on display in the Mall of America store last weekend to see if that would make a difference. Result: no difference.

I calibrated the default "Color LCD" profile but left the gamma at 1.8.

Colours were better but the lines and flickering were still present.

The flickering is more noticeable in medium-to-dark screens. Not plugging DF, but if you open a browser window to Daring Fireball, you can see the flickering in the edge's of your peripheral. This is what is causing the eye strain. It is similar to refresh rate flickering - you do not see it in your direct line of sight but in the periphery where motion is more easily captured.

nph
Dec 5, 2008, 10:41 PM
I remember I had this issue with the last gen G4 PB. I sent it back and got the first generation MBP instead.

However I cant remember what the issue turned out to be back then but the issue was exactly the same. I remember seeing the same picture and I know that I was so frustrated when I saw the lines.

In the Apple store at Willowbend I saw a new Rev B and also I thought the screen was not up to par in general with rev A. Could have been that someone messed up the profile since it had a weird name and only one showed up. I tried to fix it somewhat. But at that point, a week ago, I had not seen these threads, actually I was still focusing on choosing between MB and MBP, not like now that I realized that my next book is the MBA.
Will go back tomorrow for something else and then I will check for the lines.

threepin
Dec 5, 2008, 11:56 PM
finally got to an apple store (none within 400 miles of home) with my revb to see what they would say about my screen and to check out some others. First screen i checked out did not have lines but was clearly not as bright-checked and was a rev a. Second screen brighter but had lines-rev b week 44 just like mine. Made an appt for the genius bar and right away the tech said he could see the lines and went into the back to check his stock claiming that all had the lines and that it was the film over the leds that was causing it. He said he could do nothing for me at the time but that if apple came up with a fix they would take care of me.
Certainly the mba is usable but the screen clarity is disappointing compared to previous apple laptops i have. this is especially considering the premium pricing.
I checked the earlier thread and was surprised to see it closed.

Just for reference i am hardly an apple newbie having started with the cube and my first laptop was a 145.

Now i find myself wondering what to do as my time to claim a DOA dwindles

mhnajjar
Dec 6, 2008, 12:53 AM
Just return it and either get an exchange or opt for the MBP since the MB's screen sucks big time!

echo44
Dec 6, 2008, 12:25 PM
Please I posted this thread for people who have a problem with the screen
to learn from each other if there is a fix coming or if all the screens will always be in their current state! This is NOT a thread where people need to argue if the problem exists or not! If you don't think there is a problem than there is no need to post, I respect your opinions but this is not the thread for you! Also let us not use this thread to express opinions about each other!
That just creates background noise for those of us using this forum as a tool to improve our apple experience!:apple:

alphaxono
Dec 7, 2008, 08:13 AM
I received my MBA 1,8 128SSD on Friday in Germany and did not notice the grey lines while booting up. After booting up the system at home and looking at the Google Homepage I immediately saw that the lines. After installing Fusion and an Windows XP VM i started getting an headache.
Called Support and they told me to go back to the Apple Store cause it definitely sounds like defect. The Store sent it back and now I am waiting for a replacement. The machine itself absolutely beautiful and the SSD is awesome.
The 4 finger gesture was not working either.

I wonder if anyone here ended up getting a replacement with a working screen?
If yes please state Country/KB Layout and Build Week.

Mine was Germany/German Keyboard/47.

I'll keep my fingers crossed.

h1d
Dec 7, 2008, 08:26 AM
It's now a quite common observation for non US keyboard to have four finger swipes not working. (Presumably with a following software update.) Just FYI.

Lumpydog
Dec 7, 2008, 08:47 AM
So - I picked up a new MBA on Thursday. Traveled with it this weekend. I originally reported that it had no lines. After using it this weekend, on some backgrounds (light blue), I can barely make out the lines. I've seen much worse on the store floor models. Too see them, I have to have my eyes at the edge of the laptop and the screen tilted back.

I still have my Rev A. When I get home tonight, I'm going to do a close comparison of the screens to see what differences I can see.

I'm leaning toward keeping the Rev B because I honestly can't see the lines without a lot of trying.

When I do see them, the lines are constant and stay in place - I can scroll and the lines stay in the same place on the screen. It makes me think that the lines are caused by a film on the MBA's screen or the back light is somehow creating them...

I'm really leaning toward the backlight as the culprit. The new airs use less power and my guess is that this has changed the backlight's refresh rate - it gives you the effect of a flouredcent light. Flicker - causing headaches for some. I've read that LED backlight's use something called Pulse Width Modulation to save power and allow the backlight brightness to be adjusted. I'm wondering if the LEDs can be adjusted via firmware.

mcdj
Dec 7, 2008, 08:51 AM
This is NOT a thread where people need to argue if the problem exists or not! If you don't think there is a problem than there is no need to post, I respect your opinions but this is not the thread for you!

First of all, the thread topic is naive. You won't see a fix this quickly. If someone posts "mine was bought today and it's fine", would you automatically assume all MBAs bought today are "fixed"?

The rev B has only been out a short time, and there were delays. Heck, some people are just now getting the machines they ordered 2+ months ago. Apple may or may not even address the issue, but certainly not in the middle of the production run of the first (rev B) batch, especially with little to no press regarding the issue outside of forums. If Apple thinks the Air is here to stay in its current form factor, they may indeed revamp the screen, but it wouldn't be the first time if they decided to overhaul the design after rev B, burying the model along with its inherent problems and replacing it entirely.

Secondly, it's a web forum. Unless you're a moderator, you are wasting your time trying to guide the flow of the conversation or who should participate.

frifra
Dec 7, 2008, 02:15 PM
I was in the yorkdale store (canada, Toronto) again and tried to get rid of the flickering.

I choosed this option:

- "System Preferences">>> "Displays">>>"Color">>>Uncheck "Show Profiles for this display only">>> Wismud xxxx (the last one in the list)

First the test image was still flickering. So I just tried different resolutions for and back and changed as well to a thousand colors and tried to calibrate the display in the expert mode. As well I unchecked the ambilight sensor and changed the display light from max to min, back and for.
Then I went back to the standard options for the display (flickering) and choosed again "Wismud xxx" or "Wismut xxx" and the flickering was for some reason totally gone.

Furthermore you can adjust the contrast if you hold all 3 buttons left of the space bar and press "," and "." to adjust it.

I am kind a sad, as I will revieve an MBA next week - and I really hope it to be fine. - If so I will send it back and wait for a fix or might opt for a thinkpad...

EDIT:
... I don't understand why they can't display the newest models right there.

And links to some of the external references that popped up so far,

Test image for flickering (http://www.keithstravels.com/travelog/photos/desktopsplit-loginscreen.jpg)
Possibly (or not) related story about MBP GPU defect admitted by Apple (http://apcmag.com/apple_acknowledges_macbook_pro_graphics_glitch_offers_fix.htm)
A slashdot comment actually describing the problem (http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1052391&cid=26002107) (But I don't understand where the source "C't" is. And a few replies on it talk about calibration problem too.)


First: The "C't" is a serious computer technics Journal in Germany. Their main page is: http://www.heise.de/ct/

And I have to add, that I was wondering as well, that apple doesnt show the MBA Rev.B in stores. I mean in Toronto, the "big" apple store in the EATON Centre just re-opened on 22.11.08 - I was there, but still until today they dont even have a single MBA Rev.B, neither on display, nor available. The Yorkdale apple store has one on display but none available, and they hope they will get some IN THE NEXT WEEKS OR MONTHS.

tommi80
Dec 7, 2008, 02:45 PM
Hey,

has anyone tried to see the flickering with windows yet? (in BootCamp)

T.

phoneorpda
Dec 7, 2008, 04:09 PM
just bought a rev b 1.8 in Portland , OR at the apple store.

great machine, but yes: i have the horizontal lines too.

I can notice the difference even more as i have a MBP late 08 right next to it.

I will hold onto the Air until we hear something more from Apple...hopefully!

lincolnchee
Dec 7, 2008, 06:21 PM
just bought a rev b 1.8 in Portland , OR at the apple store.

great machine, but yes: i have the horizontal lines too.

I can notice the difference even more as i have a MBP late 08 right next to it.

I will hold onto the Air until we hear something more from Apple...hopefully!

Me too! Considering the fact that someone has returned several times to still receive one with the same issue.

phoneorpda
Dec 7, 2008, 06:49 PM
Exactly...

while it bothers me and i believe this issue shouldn't be there, considering the pricetag of this machine, I need to be really near the screen for it to bother me and i have another macbook pro i work on most of the time, when i am at home.
Granted, thihs might change, as i am loving the MBA more every minute that passes !

We'll see.
The issue has been reported on blogs and i believe apple will fix it eventually.
I had a "ghost" problem with my phone 1G where the screen had weird dots on it, last year...same amount of believers and non believers...
next thing you know, a software update silently fixed it.

I have faith that either it's software fixable, or that apple will fix the hardware, given time.

In the meanwhile, i dig my new MBA!!!!



Me too! Considering the fact that someone has returned several times to still receive one with the same issue.

YOKOJP
Dec 7, 2008, 08:45 PM
I'm currently living in Japan and bought my MBA in NY. Yes, I have the lines. Called Applecare in Japan and currently being Service. Got an email from Applecare Jpn yesterday and they said they've fixed the problem and I should get my MBA in 2 days.

When I get my MBA back, I'll see if they actually fixed the lines.

Will keep you guys posted.

Vikz
Dec 7, 2008, 08:46 PM
I absolutely disagree. How can you say that? Numerous reports are out there! :confused:
Thatīs nothing less than ridiculous!

Obviously the faulty displays are still beeing sold.
Obviously some people cannot stand criticism on Apple, even if well-founded

dude its a manufacturing defect. most probably in the LCD assembly line

I have seen those lines after LCD install in Imacs that were not done the way it was supposed to be, so most probably its the chinese worker who did not install the LCD the way it was supposed to or at least did not have all the ESD precautions.


its something to be expected when things are mass produced no matter its price.

Lumpydog
Dec 8, 2008, 06:20 AM
I still have my Rev A. When I get home tonight, I'm going to do a close comparison of the screens to see what differences I can see.

Here is my comparison: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=613186

frifra
Dec 8, 2008, 09:02 AM
Hey lumpydog, nice review, but could you please check this image on both versions?

http://www.keithstravels.com/travelog/photos/desktopsplit-loginscreen.jpg

tell me which one is flickering, please.

BTW: Which week is your new MBA?

Lumpydog
Dec 8, 2008, 09:35 AM
Hey lumpydog, nice review, but could you please check this image on both versions?

http://www.keithstravels.com/travelog/photos/desktopsplit-loginscreen.jpg

tell me which one is flickering, please.

BTW: Which week is your new MBA?

It's a week 44.

I'll try that image when I get home tonight and post results.

Ironic
Dec 8, 2008, 10:26 AM
week 44 here and no flickering.

sychee
Dec 8, 2008, 05:12 PM
I was in the yorkdale store (canada, Toronto) again and tried to get rid of the flickering.

I choosed this option:

- "System Preferences">>> "Displays">>>"Color">>>Uncheck "Show Profiles for this display only">>> Wismud xxxx (the last one in the list)

First the test image was still flickering. So I just tried different resolutions for and back and changed as well to a thousand colors and tried to calibrate the display in the expert mode. As well I unchecked the ambilight sensor and changed the display light from max to min, back and for.
Then I went back to the standard options for the display (flickering) and choosed again "Wismud xxx" or "Wismut xxx" and the flickering was for some reason totally gone.

Furthermore you can adjust the contrast if you hold all 3 buttons left of the space bar and press "," and "." to adjust it.

I am kind a sad, as I will revieve an MBA next week - and I really hope it to be fine. - If so I will send it back and wait for a fix or might opt for a thinkpad...

EDIT:


First: The "C't" is a serious computer technics Journal in Germany. Their main page is: http://www.heise.de/ct/

And I have to add, that I was wondering as well, that apple doesnt show the MBA Rev.B in stores. I mean in Toronto, the "big" apple store in the EATON Centre just re-opened on 22.11.08 - I was there, but still until today they dont even have a single MBA Rev.B, neither on display, nor available. The Yorkdale apple store has one on display but none available, and they hope they will get some IN THE NEXT WEEKS OR MONTHS.

Can you send us the profile file (.icc). Thanks.

steffi
Dec 8, 2008, 09:22 PM
So, I went to my local Applestore today and I noticed that on the display model 1.8 SSD DDR3 they had suffered from those horizonal lines that everybody's been talking about. If looking closely enough on the older Rev A it was possible to notice them there also.

So that was enough for me to hold off any buying decision before taking the plunge. I noticed the Macbooks did not show those lines.

Also at my local Applestore macrumors was not blocked and the machine that had the lines seemed to work with the 4 fingered swipe.

W8843 was the serial number of the machine I saw.

echo44
Dec 9, 2008, 06:41 AM
I am hoping the more press this issue gets the more likely apple is to issue a response!


http://theappleblog.com/2008/12/08/macbook-air-acting-up-just-in-time-for-holidays/

h1d
Dec 9, 2008, 07:10 AM
Holy ****, how do they keep picking on the only 50 computers available worldwide 1 for each country! (Ok, I stop...;))

But seriously, I hope this doesn't make Apple and Nvidia's relationship relax, because Nvidia certainly did good job boosting graphic performance from some minimal one from the Intel's and I hope they do even better for next installments. (Or are we getting AMD next time? :rolleyes: And what was the reason Apple chose Nvidia over AMD this time?)

echo44
Dec 9, 2008, 11:45 AM
since i returned my mba and have been waiting for more info until i repurchase
i have been thinking about the MBP Here is a very good factual article
demonstrating Apple Lap tops are having their problems:

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/12/09/apple-macbook-pros-nvidia-bad

I think for the time being I will hold onto my 3 year old MBP that has been
so durable and trouble free. I leave that lap top on 24 hours a day and
it has performed flawless the quality control of the newer lap tops is a little disturbing from the perspective of this long time apple user who currently owns 5 macs.

frifra
Dec 10, 2008, 08:21 AM
I am wondering now, if probably all MBA Rev.B have the faint lines issue? May be the only difference is, that some people don't see them.

Was there anybody, who had lines (has seen the lines), who has seen another Rev.B without lines?

sychee
Dec 10, 2008, 08:42 AM
I am wondering now, if probably all MBA Rev.B have the faint lines issue? May be the only difference is, that some people don't see them.

Was there anybody, who had lines (has seen the lines), who has seen another Rev.B without lines?

As Rev.B is a premium laptop, it is never showcased in Singapore. Its on request basis - you gotta ask if you want it.

Good question though.... I am curious too.

Ironic
Dec 10, 2008, 08:55 AM
As Rev.B is a premium laptop, it is never showcased in Singapore. Its on request basis - you gotta ask if you want it.

Good question though.... I am curious too.

I work with photos all day long, and yes my eyes are fine, I work with colors and see the slightest smudge on my screen, I think some dont have them, some havethem very faint and others are bad, Maybe the changed something during the build seems like alot of us have good week 44's.

frifra
Dec 10, 2008, 10:48 AM
I work with photos all day long, and yes my eyes are fine, I work with colors and see the slightest smudge on my screen, I think some dont have them, some havethem very faint and others are bad, Maybe the changed something during the build seems like alot of us have good week 44's.

You might be lucky then. But as I said, we haven't heard of anyone, who has knowledge of the lines and knows how they look like and has a MBA rev.b without. Also, some users (like Stefan R., among others) who first claimed having an MBA without lines, later on recognised them quite clearly.

tom1971
Dec 10, 2008, 11:01 AM
Where can I find out when and where my MBA was manufactured?

Ironic
Dec 10, 2008, 11:48 AM
You might be lucky then. But as I said, we haven't heard of anyone, who has knowledge of the lines and knows how they look like and has a MBA rev.b without. Also, some users (like Stefan R., among others) who first claimed having an MBA without lines, later on recognised them quite clearly.
I do think there is more then a few of us:)

jonnyb
Dec 10, 2008, 03:35 PM
My experience with getting my Rev A screen replaced may be of some interest:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=612858

steffi
Dec 10, 2008, 05:48 PM
Anybody know if the problem has been addresses with the newly released firmware updates?

My experience with getting my Rev A screen replaced may be of some interest:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=612858

tommi80
Dec 10, 2008, 06:39 PM
No fix.
The screen stays the same crap as before. Flickering and grey lines...

frifra
Dec 11, 2008, 01:05 AM
Hey guyes, I am really pissed right now.

Just got a brand new MBA Rev.B - W8849

Lines are visible all the time (5 degree downwards, as somebody else stated before), especially on the grey background behind the macrumours logo. No matter what I changed so far (color, displaz, resolution) it stays with the lines.
As well it comes with a symetric 2cm scratch on the lid.

I have to use my thinkpad soon, as my eyes start burning and getting dry (I wonder why...).

EDIT for answer to next post: Yes I discovered the thread (the very first one) right after my payment. As other people said, that they dont have the problem, I thought I might be lucky and gave it a try. I am just so unhappy now, as I really love the design and just everything about it. If the screen would be fine and not hurt my eyes, it would be so perfect! I am just so disappointed.
Apart from the issue I really adore it. Its features, MacOS! Its just great. Didnt even know there would be this kind of label function for files, which I was always looking for under Windows. :(

Thanks HLdan. Is it possible to send you a pm? Cause it doesnt show up, when I click on your name.

PS: Could it be, that the backlight somehow projects the lines onto the screen? If yes, does anybody know a method to test it?

HLdan
Dec 11, 2008, 01:13 AM
Hey guyes, I am really pissed right now.

Just got a brand new MBA Rev.B -

Lines are visible all the time, especially on the grey background behind the macrumours logo. No matter what I changed so far (color, displaz, resolution) it stays with the lines.
As well it comes with a symetric 2cm scratch on the lid.

I have to use my thinkpad soon, as my eyes start burning and getting dry (I wonder why...).

It's not smart to reveal your entire serial number on a public forum. And for the rest of your post, we all know what's up dude, please don't hammer it any further without checking out other posts or did you read the forum before your purchase?

tubbymac
Dec 11, 2008, 02:58 AM
HLdan you should remove that serial number from your quote, or a moderator should edit it out.

Rats I was hoping we'd be safe from lines in North America, but now frifra got the lines in Canada.

tommi80
Dec 11, 2008, 11:31 AM
Hey,

I've phoned again with a guy from the "apple executive relations" today and he told me that these MBA displays are in spec. He recommends to go to an apple store, and buy the unit with the faintest lines... :eek:

Thats really disappointing! I can't live with the flickering and grey lines on the MBA, and I can't live with the mirror-display on the MB(P).
I really hope my actual MBP will not die in the near future. Otherwise I'll switch back to a non-glossy PC laptop with linux...

Tom.

alphaxono
Dec 11, 2008, 11:33 AM
I just got a call from Apple. They said that they changed my Screen and Logic Board and that the problem with the lines was still there. They told me that they will contact engineering about the problem and see what they can do.

I remember that some of you got the same response. What was the conclusion? :confused:

StefanR.
Dec 11, 2008, 11:36 AM
and when you call here in spain:

"what? lines? flickering? never heard about it..."

:D

alphaxono
Dec 11, 2008, 11:41 AM
Hey,
I've phoned again with a guy from the "apple executive relations" today and he told me that these MBA displays are in spec.


How can this screen be in spec. I know Apple is going Green but using a Screen that looks like recycled Paper is going a bit too far.

I don't know of any other display with lines like that. How can that be in spec.

Ironic
Dec 11, 2008, 12:13 PM
How can this screen be in spec. I know Apple is going Green but using a Screen that looks like recycled Paper is going a bit too far.

I don't know of any other display with lines like that. How can that be in spec.

What I really don't understand is why do some have no lines, what changed during the making of them?

tommi80
Dec 11, 2008, 12:46 PM
How can this screen be in spec. I know Apple is going Green but using a Screen that looks like recycled Paper is going a bit too far.

I don't know of any other display with lines like that. How can that be in spec.

The only way to get apples attention is to send it back an make complaints on the apple care hotline.
If there are enough complaints, apple will have to stop ignoring their customer...

h1d
Dec 11, 2008, 04:56 PM
> buy the unit with the faintest lines

Very impressive... impressive enough to lower my faith in Apple. I mean, that's some really idiotic suggestion, quite frankly.

> Apple is going Green but using a Screen that looks like recycled Paper is going a bit too far

:D

The worse thing is, they don't even tell the staff about the problem and make us all confused when they go 'buy the best look out of the worst display ever', 'huh? don't know what you are talking about', 'oh, i'm calling an engineer again', 'i think its WITHIN SPECS!' craps. Would be fun to collect all the responses from Apple that people wrote in here or in the related threads and send that compiled to mr jobs to tell him how staff are well taught...

alphaxono
Dec 11, 2008, 05:29 PM
I wish Apple would just admit that there is a problem and not leave us out in the dark.

Just letting us know that there is a problem and that they are working on solution would be enough to put my mind at ease.

All we have now, is relying on various forums to see what others have experienced regarding this issue and Apple Support.

HLdan
Dec 11, 2008, 05:50 PM
I wish Apple would just admit that there is a problem and not leave us out in the dark.

Just letting us know that there is a problem and that they are working on solution would be enough to put my mind at ease.

All we have now, is relying on various forums to see what others have experienced regarding this issue and Apple Support.

They won't acknowledge or admit to a problem if not enough people are reporting it to Apple. The majority of the complainers come only to forums to vent and share in each others misery. The one's reporting it to Apple are only calling their customer service line rather than going to Apple's website and report the problem. Calling Apple's customer service makes it appear to be an isolated incident. If even half of the complainers that come here only to vent went to Apple's website and reported the problem then maybe it would be addressed as a widespread issue but some of you just like to come here to share in each others misery and talk crap about Apple rather than step up to the plate and go to Apple yourself.

alphaxono
Dec 12, 2008, 04:29 AM
Here is a PC World Review of the new Macbook Air.

http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/product/43960/review/macbook_air.html

The Reviewer doesn't seem to have the display problem.
I wonder whether any Reviews are out there mentioning this Problem.

jtmav
Dec 12, 2008, 07:08 AM
So I am going to the Apple store this afternoon to buy a Mac book Air. I have been lurking here since the introduction of the Air. I am now concerned with the screen issues described in this thread, as well as others. I am coming from a 13.3" VAIO which has a very good screen. I hope the Air will at least be as good and I was hoping for better. Is it the consensus here that I open the box on site and determine the screen to be good? Is there a particular background setting that more clearly shows the potential defect?
Thanks for your help,
JTMav

nph
Dec 12, 2008, 07:30 AM
Is it just me or why doesn't other reviewers talk about the really bad quality of the MB?

When looking at the MBA (even if some screens have the lines) the contrast and viewing angle are hugely better on the MBA.
I actually bought the MB and returned for 3 reasons:
1) It actually got quite hot
2) Really bad reflections
3) Lousy viewing angle and contrast (unless in perfect seating angle)

The MBA addresses all 3 of my issues above and once I see the line issues resolved I will buy one.

Sure, the MB is quite good but they always fail to mention the limitations of the screen when they compare the MBA and MB. If not MBA I would have gone with the MBP but too heavy and more power than I need since I have an imac for my handbreak stuff. :)

The Toddfather
Dec 12, 2008, 08:38 AM
You might be lucky then. But as I said, we haven't heard of anyone, who has knowledge of the lines and knows how they look like and has a MBA rev.b without. Also, some users (like Stefan R., among others) who first claimed having an MBA without lines, later on recognised them quite clearly.

Here is a PC World Review of the new Macbook Air.

http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/product/43960/review/macbook_air.html

The Reviewer doesn't seem to have the display problem.
I wonder whether any Reviews are out there mentioning this Problem.

Here are two examples of what happens when you stop people from posting who do not have line issues with the MBA. Please read the following carefully, I am not claiming there is no issue, I'm simply claiming it's not as widespread as you would think reading this forum.

I respectfully submit the line problem is a small issue that affects a small amount of MBAs. Again, I am not saying there is no issue, it's just not as widespread as you would believe. Posters who do not have an issue have been asked not to post, allowing others to whip themselves into a frenzy believing that every MBA has this issue. This is simply not the case.

Lumpydog
Dec 12, 2008, 09:36 AM
So I am going to the Apple store this afternoon to buy a Mac book Air. I have been lurking here since the introduction of the Air. I am now concerned with the screen issues described in this thread, as well as others. I am coming from a 13.3" VAIO which has a very good screen. I hope the Air will at least be as good and I was hoping for better. Is it the consensus here that I open the box on site and determine the screen to be good? Is there a particular background setting that more clearly shows the potential defect?
Thanks for your help,
JTMav


I did the same thing as you - read about the problems here and rolled the dice. My advice is to look at the things you normally would first - web browsing, etc. Do you see the lines? If no, you can go looking for them, and I'm sure you'll find them - if you try REALLY hard. Hell - I managed to see them on my Rev A after owning it for 8 months and not noticing them.

On my Rev B Air, I can't see them at all unless I get my head at the exact right spot and the screen at the exact right angle.

Unless it's immediately obvious during normal use, keep it an be happy. It's a great laptop.

alphaxono
Dec 12, 2008, 11:33 AM
Here are two examples of what happens when you stop people from posting who do not have line issues with the MBA. Please read the following carefully, I am not claiming there is no issue, I'm simply claiming it's not as widespread as you would think reading this forum.


In my case, my MBA has been at Apple Support for over a week. They changed the screen, they changed the Logic Board but the Problem still exists. Apple Support told me that there are a couple of people with this problem and they sent the MBA to engineering for further Analysis.

I congratulate everyone with a MBA with a working Screen. If you are tired of people bitching about this problem I would suggest a new Thread called:
"I am freakishly good-looking and so is my Screen"

For the ones who just can't see the lines while others can, I suggest:
"My eyes are going bad, and I'm loving it!"

Either way, this is a great forum. I am happy that people with the same problems have a platform to voice their concerns and keep each other updated.

Wish you all a Merry Christmas

NC MacGuy
Dec 12, 2008, 12:10 PM
Having chased rf birdies, ground loop problems and feedback issues for over 30 years, I think it's interference between new graphics, MBA chassis and display input. Could even be P.S., fan, Airport, light sensor, or iSight that is feeding harmonics to display input. I seriously don't think it's the display on it's own. Or for that matter, any one piece. Just my cent and a half (not quite worth 2.);)

The Toddfather
Dec 12, 2008, 12:44 PM
In my case, my MBA has been at Apple Support for over a week. They changed the screen, they changed the Logic Board but the Problem still exists. Apple Support told me that there are a couple of people with this problem and they sent the MBA to engineering for further Analysis.

I congratulate everyone with a MBA with a working Screen. If you are tired of people bitching about this problem I would suggest a new Thread called:
"I am freakishly good-looking and so is my Screen"

For the ones who just can't see the lines while others can, I suggest:
"My eyes are going bad, and I'm loving it!"

Either way, this is a great forum. I am happy that people with the same problems have a platform to voice their concerns and keep each other updated.

Wish you all a Merry Christmas

You're missing the point, having only one side represented (i.e. ALL MBA's have lines) as has been suggested in previous posts leaves readers with the impression that all rev2 MBA's are bad. There have been several posts that lead the poster to believe just that. I'm not debating that there is an issue, just that not all MBA's have this issue.

I hope anyone that has an issue gets a fix ASAP, but being bitter to those who don't have an issue, or to stop anyone from saying their MBA's don't have an issue is childish.

Kalmia
Dec 12, 2008, 01:08 PM
Having chased rf birdies, ground loop problems and feedback issues for over 30 years, I think it's interference between new graphics, MBA chassis and display input. Could even be P.S., fan, Airport, light sensor, or iSight that is feeding harmonics to display input. I seriously don't think it's the display on it's own. Or for that matter, any one piece. Just my cent and a half (not quite worth 2.);)
I've heard this theory proposed a couple of times, and so far it's the one that's made the most sense to me. Since the internal wiring of the rev. B is different from the rev. A, it's not a stretch to assume that somewhere there's unforeseen interference leaking into the display that wasn't present (at least not to the same extent) on the rev. A model.

The poster whose good rev. A display was replaced and developed lines afterward may narrow it down a bit, as that model exhibits the same issue with the old graphics. So I tend to assume that it's contained within the display unit itself, but perhaps someone more knowledgeable in this realm than I can shed some light. :D

davnee
Dec 12, 2008, 02:55 PM
Just received my repaired Air this morning with replaced screen. Lines are still apparent, though not as strikingly visible as last time, but eye strain kicked in fairly quick even with the dimmer lines. I took it to the Apple Store just for the hell of it, and the Genius there immediately saw the lines. We checked the display model on the floor - also lines and at about the same intensity of my new screen.

He told me it was a screen matrix issue. I don't know what that really means, but that's what he said. He took the computer in the back and said there were no lines on the external monitor. He was quite shocked that applecare had attempted to repair my computer rather than just send me a new one. He said I could ask for a replacement, but he was not optimistic that it would come back without lines. He implied that this was part and parcel of the particular backlight technology interacting with the lcd crystals used on the Airs, which is different from the technology on the macbooks and the pros. His theory was that the eye strain was a result of my subconscious focus on the lines, which may vary in intensity from screen to screen but that are probably on all airs, and since I have excellent vision and now an awareness of them, I will probably always see them.

Long story short, I'll be returning my computer and asking for a refund. I really wanted the portability of an air, but this is intolerable, especially when the price tag is $2,500. So macbook here I come.

Blue Velvet
Dec 12, 2008, 04:22 PM
You're missing the point


No, you're missing the point. I've already closed two threads about this issue, because people were trolling them saying the problem didn't exist at all. Well, clearly it does for some.

This thread is not about giving a balanced picture, it's for those who wish to discuss the issue in detail. If you're happy with your MacBook Air, then that's great... but that is not what this thread is about.

Ironic
Dec 12, 2008, 04:43 PM
You're missing the point, having only one side represented (i.e. ALL MBA's have lines) as has been suggested in previous posts leaves readers with the impression that all rev2 MBA's are bad. There have been several posts that lead the poster to believe just that. I'm not debating that there is an issue, just that not all MBA's have this issue.

I hope anyone that has an issue gets a fix ASAP, but being bitter to those who don't have an issue, or to stop anyone from saying their MBA's don't have an issue is childish.

I have to agree, Seems like many here are saying all MBA have lines and they don't Period. I hope the issue gets fixed with a software update, and many here are telling anyone who will listen not to buy!!

My Apple store has ones on display that are line free.

The Toddfather
Dec 12, 2008, 04:43 PM
No, you're missing the point. I've already closed two threads about this issue, because people were trolling them saying the problem didn't exist at all. Well, clearly it does for some.

This thread is not about giving a balanced picture, it's for those who wish to discuss the issue in detail. If you're happy with your MacBook Air, then that's great... but that is not what this thread is about.

So your not worried that several posters thought that all MBA's had this issue because you don't want anyone say anything positive? I thought this was a discussion thread?

justit
Dec 12, 2008, 04:48 PM
but this is intolerable, especially when the price tag is $2,500. So macbook here I come.

I agree. Today from the A-Store I got the rolling-eyes-whatever-man from the manager with a "Well they're just built that way." So that makes it a total of 3 for me: 2 Week 45s and a week 46 with bad lines. He was even hinting to me that this last return would be my final return. Wuh? :confused:
Part of the problem is that the store is very brightly lit and that the lines are more pronounced in low lighting with full screen brightness. So the employees don't see it as an obvious problem.

McGilli
Dec 12, 2008, 07:41 PM
So your not worried that several posters thought that all MBA's had this issue because you don't want anyone say anything positive? I thought this was a discussion thread?


I have to agree....

If you REALLY have a problem with your apple product - then post it on the Apple forums - which is a SUPPORT forum.

Last I checked - THIS IS A DISCUSSION FORUM - so anyone is welcome to join in and post....

If it weren't for the other positive posts in a negative thread I would think I am the only person in the world who doesn't have lines on their machine.

As I have stated earlier - I agree the issue is real - but considering the poll on this forum grabbed maybe 25 people having the issue - I don't think it is a HUGE issue. (but huge for the individual who gets a bum machine)

Blue Velvet
Dec 12, 2008, 08:37 PM
So your not worried that several posters thought that all MBA's had this issue because you don't want anyone say anything positive? I thought this was a discussion thread?


As I said, earlier threads on this issue were closed down because they soon devolved into arguments on whether this problem actually existed which then spilled over into hostility... Passions are strong. Clearly, the problem exists for some so let them discuss it. This is the only way to keep some peace around here.

If you would like to tell other forum members about your MBA which is fine and all the other MBAs which are fine, then I suggest you create another thread to do so and I will also do my bit to keep it clear of any trouble, if any problems arise...

Edit: And this thread has now been created (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=615953)

tubbymac
Dec 12, 2008, 10:36 PM
Long story short, I'll be returning my computer and asking for a refund. I really wanted the portability of an air, but this is intolerable, especially when the price tag is $2,500. So macbook here I come.

I hope you don't mean Macbook as in 13 inch Macbook. I have the aluminum one and the reason I'm considering a MBA is because the screen on the Macbook is terrible. If you're talking about the MBP well then you lose all the portability that an MBA gives you since it's so heavy.

If you don't like the MBA screen you'll hate the Macbook 13 screen worse, trust me on that.

Sdevante
Dec 12, 2008, 10:44 PM
*sigh*... was so excited to place an order for my first Mac tonight, then discovered all the stuff about defective displays. Now I'm not so sure I want to order soon b/c I don't want to get stuck exchanging computers and floating a lot of money on my credit card.

Has anyone that has experienced this problem purchased through the online store? Or has it been limited to certain geographical areas?

HLdan
Dec 12, 2008, 11:05 PM
I hope you don't mean Macbook as in 13 inch Macbook. I have the aluminum one and the reason I'm considering a MBA is because the screen on the Macbook is terrible. If you're talking about the MBP well then you lose all the portability that an MBA gives you since it's so heavy.

If you don't like the MBA screen you'll hate the Macbook 13 screen worse, trust me on that.

Agreed, the reason a lot of MBA's are being sold is because (not only due to the thin factor) the Macbook ALU's screen is a black level/contrast washout nightmare.

Once you see the Macbook screen, you will forgive the lines on the MBA screen with pleasure. I returned my Macbook ALU because I just couldn't bare looking at such washed out images and people on MR are creating dozens of color profiles that do absolutely NOTHING to help the lack of contrast.

justit
Dec 13, 2008, 12:39 AM
Ayou will forgive the lines on the MBA.

At this price, I'm not in a forgiving mood :D They know how to make great screens (rev A) but someone at :apple: tried to fix something that wasn't broken. Yes the internals are vastly different in rev B, but why can't the QC department spot this before it leaves the door?

h1d
Dec 13, 2008, 01:39 AM
So your not worried that several posters thought that all MBA's had this issue because you don't want anyone say anything positive? I thought this was a discussion thread?

Still missing the point after 30th page about this? We know, you have the good ones. If the product is good, I'm sure other people will add the fact themselves and you're worried that not many are adding, in fact, owners of good product don't care to post, so I suggest you stop worrying on behalf of Apple, because it's not adding anything to the thread. Just because 30 people said they have bad product doesn't mean, 3 people have to say they have the good one 10 times each, just so you feel good. Is it so hard to leave the thread alone for the people that care?

I went to a local store again (not Apple's) and they again go 'no stock, sorry, no display for rev B'. Wonder what Apple is afraid of... On what occasion has an Apple's newest model not get displayed at anywhere I go for months?

jtmav
Dec 13, 2008, 05:10 AM
As a follow up I bought a MBA 1.8/128ssd yesterday at the local Apple store. After a few hours of using it I cannot find any defects with the screen yet. I have tried a variety of different desktop backgrounds, solid colors etc. So far so good. Just thought I would let anyone know who may be on the fence. Great machine, used the remote disc with my iMac and worked flawlessly.

JTMav

immaculate
Dec 13, 2008, 07:04 AM
As a follow up I bought a MBA 1.8/128ssd yesterday at the local Apple store. After a few hours of using it I cannot find any defects with the screen yet. I have tried a variety of different desktop backgrounds, solid colors etc. So far so good. Just thought I would let anyone know who may be on the fence. Great machine, used the remote disc with my iMac and worked flawlessly.

JTMav

JTMav - that's good to hear, but could you tell us where you are? Some people over at the Apple Discussions are speculating that the problem is largely confined to non-US buyers.

Just wondering too whether there's any possible connection between the screen problem and the choice of keyboard (US English vs any other language). Just an idea.

PS I'm in Switzerland and definitely not buying till I hear that the problem is solved.

justit
Dec 13, 2008, 07:53 AM
I have tried a variety of different desktop backgrounds, solid colors etc. So far so good.

The lines differ in intensity as I've gone through 3 machines. To make it more pronounced go to Preferences->Display->Color->Calibrate... ->disable the Expert Mode and goto white point at D50. Using a white solid background, if you still do not see any lines giving it a yellow/tan pattern then you're in luck.

jtmav
Dec 13, 2008, 07:57 AM
JTMav - that's good to hear, but could you tell us where you are? Some people over at the Apple Discussions are speculating that the problem is largely confined to non-US buyers.

Just wondering too whether there's any possible connection between the screen problem and the choice of keyboard (US English vs any other language). Just an idea.

PS I'm in Switzerland and definitely not buying till I hear that the problem is solved.

I am in the Greater Boston area in the US

davnee
Dec 13, 2008, 09:36 AM
could you tell us where you are? Some people over at the Apple Discussions are speculating that the problem is largely confined to non-US buyers.

American buyer here with lines. In the midwest. And had my screen replaced at Apple's repair facility in Memphis - came back once again with lines. Also saw lines on the display model at my local Apple store. So that makes two machines and three screens that I have personally seen affected. Proof enough for me that I should stop wasting my time and energy trying to hit the jackpot of a good machine (personally I'm skeptical that any air is totally line free, some are probably just extremely faint) and just move on.

ichigo11
Dec 13, 2008, 11:17 AM
Proof enough for me that I should stop wasting my time and energy trying to hit the jackpot of a good machine (personally I'm skeptical that any air is totally line free, some are probably just extremely faint) and just move on.


Agreed. My MBA was shipped to me from Philadelphia week 47 with lines. I also saw lines at the Apple store in CT, which lead me to believe this is a wide spread problem.

I was thinking about exchanging mine but none I read from the forum got a line free MBA after the exchange.
I called the Apple Care and they said unless the lines are really noticeable, it's within spec and I have to take it to an Apple store and let them determine if it qualify to be fixed or exchanged.

So I hope those with lines will keep this thread alive and hopefully Apple will provide a fix for this problem.

justit
Dec 13, 2008, 11:46 AM
it's within spec

I've heard that PR line from previous macs but to apply to the new MBA's screen; that's a new one. If they dare say that, then it's worth returning it rather than living with it hoping it gets fixed someday, which I was actually considering doing until now.

davnee
Dec 13, 2008, 12:09 PM
If you don't like the MBA screen you'll hate the Macbook 13 screen worse, trust me on that.

It isn't just a matter of not liking the screen on the air (though it is preposterous to be expected to live with a visibly muddied screen at $2,500), but that the screen makes me physically ill.

And I'm no prima donna. I've have and have had multiple Apple desktops and laptops and never before had the slightest complaint. Nor have I ever once before experienced eye strain looking at a computer screen, and I spend hours every day in front of one.

I'll more than happily live with a screen that does not have the best possible contrast if it will allow me to actually do my work without becoming ill. Besides, I spent twenty minutes scrutinizing the new macbook screen at the Apple Store on Friday and it sure as heck looked better than the crap lined screen of the air that was on display across the way. At least whites were white on the macbook and not grey.

NC MacGuy
Dec 13, 2008, 12:18 PM
It isn't just a matter of not liking the screen on the air (though it is preposterous to be expected to live with a visibly muddied screen at $2,500), but that the screen makes me physically ill.

And I'm no prima donna. I've have and have had multiple Apple desktops and laptops and never before had the slightest complaint. Nor have I ever once before experienced eye strain looking at a computer screen, and I spend hours every day in front of one.

I'll more than happily live with a screen that does not have the best possible contrast if it will allow me to actually do my work without becoming ill. Besides, I spent twenty minutes scrutinizing the new macbook screen at the Apple Store on Friday and it sure as heck looked better than the crap lined screen of the air that was on display across the way. At least whites were white on the macbook and not grey.

Not to get off topic but in reply, I had a MB. It's not just the whites and blacks, it's an issue of extremely narrow viewing angle. Not side to side, up and down. Backlight evenness is atrocious too. Sorry you had a bad Air but they're not all like that. I still stand behind my theory that it's not the displays but interference between displays and other components.

That's why changing a display alone won't fix the lines.

queshy
Dec 13, 2008, 12:20 PM
The MacBook Air screens are the best notebook screens Apple makes in terms of minimizing the # of defects...

echo44
Dec 13, 2008, 06:21 PM
well we are getting close to 5000 views on this thread
and we still have not had a single post from someone
who has or had a macbook air with lines get the problem fixed
or has had a replacement that does not have theses lines.
That makes it possible that all units are effected and some people
may not see the lines even if they are really there.
This wouldn't surprise me. same thing occurs with refresh rate
if the refresh rate is set incorrectly on a monitor i can see them
flickering where as some people standing right next to me do not
perceive the flickering.
What is disturbing is apple's lack of addressing this problem!
My last apple with any type of defect was a cube that developed the cracks
I didn't even care since it was just a subtle cosmetic issue and never returned it or complained but if you remember the sales of the cube were dismal in part
to the wide spread media coverage of the problem. As a significant stock holder in Apple I cringe when Apple doesn't adequately address these types of issues. It doesn't take much for a company to loose its shine. The way I see it 2 of the last three models of laptops are unusable. The mac book air for many has a defect resulting in lines in the screen. The macbook alu
screen is so washed out and viewing angle is very limited. IMO both of these models took a step back in screen quality and that is not a good sign for Apple. It will not be an issue if Apple addresses the problems and corrects them. Until that time I will stick to my two year old macbook pro
which is built like a tank and has been running close to 24 x7 since i bought the beast. I can not remember a single freeze the only time it gets shut down is when i do a restart to load software updates.:rolleyes:

queshy
Dec 14, 2008, 01:40 AM
Just go back and buy it at a different store (from a different batch or something).

The reason why no one has addressed it is because few people suffer from this problem. Although I 100% believe you have this issue (never put a defective machine past Apple...), it's just not common. The MacBook Air really is one of Apple's least troubled laptops. Give it back and try again. Eventually you will get a flawless one.

justit
Dec 14, 2008, 09:13 AM
Eventually you will get a flawless one.

That's a bit simplistic don't you think?

I've gone to several stores and I am on my 3rd one about to be returned. The "few people" you mention actually notice the problem as it may be very subtle to the masses. It's not a crack in the case you can send to flickr and have everyone notice, just like the Rev A core shutdowns weren't consistent enough to have a product recall yet it's widely accepted that it did effect a significant chunk of MBAs in circulation.

And so goes the screen issues, as we're one of the first wave of people trying to respond to the problem so that hopefully others won't need to "Just go back and buy it at a different store"

ninjadex
Dec 14, 2008, 10:25 AM
... The MacBook Air really is one of Apple's least troubled laptops. Give it back and try again. Eventually you will get a flawless one ...

Not necessarily a significant feat. Apple only currently makes 5 different books. So unless every Air is flawless, this doesn't really fly.

Also, Apple has seen the issue first hand, and said it was within spec. So they are not going to endlessly exchange/swap for you. With that said, they will be replacing my screen at some point under Applecare, because this definitely is a defect.

alphaxono
Dec 15, 2008, 04:08 PM
I was trying to find other places for updates on the display of the Air and found two interesting pages.

Looks like many other had this issue loooooong before we did.

Funny thing (or not so funny) is that it seems like the nvidia chip was the culprit:

http://www.notebookforums.com/thread139322.html
http://www.nocrash.com/ncbbs/msgs/157.shtml

:D:apple:

Ironic
Dec 15, 2008, 05:54 PM
Some member today did get new MBA and neither had lines, guess that good news.

sychee
Dec 15, 2008, 05:58 PM
The lines are still there! Well, will it be possible for individual update(s) to arrive even after Apple releases this last OSX update ?

tommi80
Dec 15, 2008, 06:29 PM
Some member today did get new MBA and neither had lines, guess that good news.

mhm.. that sounds good.. but they could also have had luck. :confused:

So, any new MBAs shipped with lines out there?

h1d
Dec 15, 2008, 07:26 PM
So, how's 10.5.6? (They even improved on the Chess stability!)

alphaxono
Dec 16, 2008, 02:33 AM
Here is another mention of the line issue and this time its in a ZDNet review:

http://www.zdnet.com.au/reviews/hardware/laptops/soa/Apple-MacBook-Air-1-86GHz-Nvidia-GeForce-9400M-/0,2000065761,339293840,00.htm

echo44
Dec 16, 2008, 11:06 AM
"should be noted that our review sample exhibited the "grey line" issue that has troubled some units of the recent MacBook Air, as has been discussed on Apple's own support forums and MacRumors."
From zdnet review

I am convinced all models have the lines and some people are not sensitive to see them lucky them!
I revisted the local apple store on my previous visit they had the an old air side by side with the new air and the old air screen was much nicer!
now they have two new airs both have the lines! In fact yet to see
a unit without the lines. Until this problem is fixed unless your not sensitive to the lines I would stare clear of this model. I checked out again the mac book pro the screen was flawless except for the amount of glossyness
I think i would rather have the glossy , extra power and weight rather than the defective lighter macbook air for the same price.

justit
Dec 16, 2008, 11:48 AM
I am convinced all models have the lines and some people are not sensitive to see them lucky them!

These grey lines take up 40-50% of the screen. Most people don't know the difference between 720p vs. 1080p, they can't see that 720p is half the resolution offered by 1080p.

justit
Dec 16, 2008, 12:04 PM
:) Will this begin to get the ball rolling?

jtmav
Dec 16, 2008, 12:07 PM
These grey lines take up 40-50% of the screen. Most people don't know the difference between 720p vs. 1080p, they can't see that 720p is half the resolution offered by 1080p.

Huh? I got to tell you, I know the difference between 720p and 1080p and I also don't see the lines on my Rev B. I have tried all the different suggested settings and they're just not there. I was an early adopter of DLP Hi Def technology and am sensitive to what is called "the rainbow effect" so I don't think I am as oblivious as is being implied. Is there any chance that some of these screens are just fine? These forums are frequented by people extremely interested and, at times, very critical of the various topics discussed. I think it's a considerable leap to say "all" these screens are defective and some owners just don't see them. The way they are being described it sounds impossible NOT to see them.
YMMV
JTMav

The Toddfather
Dec 16, 2008, 12:12 PM
I am convinced all models have the lines and some people are not sensitive to see them lucky them!...

Saying the lines are on every MBA is as stupid as saying they are not on any.

justit
Dec 16, 2008, 12:21 PM
I think it's a considerable leap to say "all" these screens are defective
JTMav

Yes I agree, so why does your post quote me? :o

I'm simply making the point that some people can't tell the difference. I've gone through 3 MBAs and they all varied in intensity. To all those without lines: great, but many can't tell the difference either way (hence 720p vs 1080p).

echo44
Dec 16, 2008, 08:28 PM
I base my assumption and it is only an assumption on the observation from both this thread and the one on apple web site. So far no one who has seen the lines has had a replacement without the lines or has found at the store a
unit without the lines on display! I returned my first unit which had lines.
Since than I have seen a total of 5 units in chicago and chicago area on display
all have had the lines. So including the one i returned that would be 6 units.
Of course that is a small sample size but again the kicker is no one who has identified the lines has found a unit without the lines. It is possible those people exist and just haven't posted on these threads but it is also possible and seemingly somewhat more plausable that the problem may affect most if not all units. It seems very strange that if there were units that were not affected, one of us who have had a defective unit would have received a good unit as a replacement don't you think? Just common sense logic.

nmook
Dec 16, 2008, 08:50 PM
It seems very strange that if there were units that were not affected, one of us who have had a defective unit would have received a good unit as a replacement don't you think? Just common sense logic.

Agreed. I think it's far more likely that some people just aren't in the right environment or simply can't see them. However, you're not going to convince them of that (would you like to be told you can't see or hear something other people can?), so it's not even worth discussing really.

The fact that we can all agree upon is that at the very least, many MacBook Airs have the screen problem and nobody has received a replacement without lines. So hopefully Apple will resolve the issue as it continues to get reported more.

justit
Dec 17, 2008, 12:03 AM
Hooked up my 50" 1080p and the MBA is a champ, ran cool, no stutter and no fan noise. I noticed OSX added a new "Panasonic-TV" icc color profile. I decided to use it on MBA. Now is it just me or does it diminish (not eliminate) the lines? Please confirm if this profile somewhat helps anyone.

mhnajjar
Dec 17, 2008, 01:58 AM
http://att.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=148624&d=1229432226

http://att.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=148625&d=1229432226


Screen model 00009C9A
Production: week 50


:mad: @ :apple:

LeonX
Dec 17, 2008, 07:35 AM
Hi -
because so many people stated they dont have lines I dared ordering a MBA, although I had seen them already on a display model. Yep, the new MBA has lines, too. No surprise. As I said before it's definetely a problem with the plastic layer on the display rather than with the panel itself. (I explained the physics about it in an old thread). Its a very subtle problem and other people around here couldnt see the problem until I told them. You need obviously to know what to look for and actually focus on the layer ON the screen. I am disappointed though because as always when you play lottery you hope to win even if chances are 1:1000000. I do believe that every single unit with a 9C9A display is affected (i dont want to argue about that) and that many people dont really care or even notice. But I still think there is hope that Apple switches to another panel especially since someone mentioned she got a 9C90 in another thread. I hope this is no type and we will see more of them down the road. Right now my unit (week 48) is getting back and to sweeten the wait I will take a Macbook from my employer...

ninjadex
Dec 17, 2008, 07:35 AM
Agreed. I think it's far more likely that some people just aren't in the right environment or simply can't see them. However, you're not going to convince them of that (would you like to be told you can't see or hear something other people can?), so it's not even worth discussing really.

The fact that we can all agree upon is that at the very least, many MacBook Airs have the screen problem and nobody has received a replacement without lines. So hopefully Apple will resolve the issue as it continues to get reported more.

This is what makes me worry that nothing ever will be done about the problem.

alphaxono
Dec 17, 2008, 08:07 AM
I got a call from Apple Support. They told me that they are keeping my MBA and sending it to Engineering and that I would have to wait for a couple of weeks to get another one. So I opted for getting my money back.

So basically they still don't know what the hell is going on.

Even though the MBA is a beautiful machine...i will prob. get a Thinkpad X301, X200s or Sony Z21 now.....Better hardware but sucky design and sucky software...but my eyes will thank me for it in the long run ;)

Good luck to the rest of you...Let me when the problem is fixed!

Merry Christmas

h1d
Dec 17, 2008, 08:11 AM
Jobs not showing up at MacWorld, they basically have just a few QA testers who just look at the product for a few seconds and say 'OK' to go mass production, and what's going on with Apple now?

davnee
Dec 17, 2008, 09:44 AM
Agreed. I think it's far more likely that some people just aren't in the right environment or simply can't see them. However, you're not going to convince them of that (would you like to be told you can't see or hear something other people can?), so it's not even worth discussing really.


Put me in the camp that believes this problem afflicts every air. I've yet to see an air without lines, although the sample size is admittedly small, but what I did notice was that the lines were of varying intensity in each instance. My guess is that on some machines the phenomenon is faint enough that it is not noticeable to users with either poor vision or who are unaware of the defect and therefore don't focus on it.

Also, my administrative assistant spoke to the Apple rep for our university this week about getting my refund, and he admitted that the air had been causing them lots of problems - mine was definitely not the first return he'd encountered.

Of course, it does not really matter in the end if the lines problem affects all, most, or many airs. At a minimum we now know it affects many, and that means substantial financial losses to Apple for having to scrap and replace so many machines. Hopefully that will get their attention. In the meantime, I'm getting my money back and buying a macbook, which means less money in Apple's pocket.

michaelffm
Dec 17, 2008, 10:09 AM
Someone should really test the line and the flickering issue while running windows or linux.
Whether the issue also occurs on other OSes or not is a very important question

LeonX
Dec 17, 2008, 11:07 AM
Someone should really test the line and the flickering issue while running windows or linux.
Whether the issue also occurs on other OSes or not is a very important question

The issue is visible running windows, and as I said, its definetely a hardware issue. One can tell.

HLdan
Dec 17, 2008, 11:11 AM
My guess is that on some machines the phenomenon is faint enough that it is not noticeable to users with either poor vision or who are unaware of the defect and therefore don't focus on it.


In the meantime, I'm getting my money back and buying a macbook, which means less money in Apple's pocket.

Where the heck do you get off saying people must have poor vision if they don't see the lines? There's no need to insult people. Just because some people may not see the lines like you do doesn't mean they have poor vision. Everyone sees things in different ways.
Here's a newsflash for ya, maybe people don't really give a damn and they want to move on and USE their computer as the tool they bought it for rather than come here and pull all their hair out trying to talk an issue do death.
I'll bet at least 95% of this forum has not went to Apple's website and posted the problem in the feedback section.
Coming here and posting or calling Apple's customer service isn't going to fix the problem.

Another newsflash for you buddy, you took back your Air for a regular Macbook? It may cost Apple more to build the Air (even if it has less parts) so they may have made more money from you on the Macbook since they saved so much money on that crappy low contrast LCD used in the Macbook. :p

GoCubsGo
Dec 17, 2008, 11:36 AM
The issue is visible running windows, and as I said, its definetely a hardware issue. One can tell.

Pretty sure it is a hardware issue too, a theory tossed out in the forums here is something dealing with the electronics of some machines and not the actual screen itself. More of some interference of sorts (don't quote me on that one). Bottom line is despite the constant bitching between people on this thread, almost the fanboys against the people who seem to have legit issues, there is something wrong, but Apple has yet to identify what it is, if they can fix it, or if they give a crap at all. :rolleyes:

LeonX
Dec 17, 2008, 11:52 AM
Pretty sure it is a hardware issue too, a theory tossed out in the forums here is something dealing with the electronics of some machines and not the actual screen itself. More of some interference of sorts (don't quote me on that one).

well I dont believe in this theory because of a simple reason. If I move my head up and down in front of the screen the lines are wandering up and down too (releatively to the text on the screen). IT IS an interference but it is caused by the plastic layer on the panel. By the way the same problem did appear on a couple of other laptops made by other manufacturers - as far as I know mostly if not only with Chi Mei panels. (some of these laptops were alternatively available with other panels and did not have the problem). So as long as Apple doesnt go for another supplier, we wont have a flawless screen.

p.s. pls dont argue with me that yours is perfect. i dont doubt that some units may be pefect for some people.

justit
Dec 17, 2008, 11:57 AM
IT IS an interference but it is caused by the plastic layer on the panel.

That's strange, because the problem has also been reported on a few Macbook Pros which are glass. I do agree that they will need to find another manufacturer besides C-M.

echo44
Dec 17, 2008, 12:00 PM
Just curious for those who keep posting that have no issues with the lines.
I am very busy person and only visit this forum when I have a problem
with an apple computer product to see if other people are having the same
problem and if so are there any solutions. When I am having no problems
I spend my time using my computer for productivity. I can understand game playing surfing etc. But why would you spend your time posting on a thread when your not having a problem? What good does it do for the rest of us
accept create noise? Why would you feel insulted if someone claims its a perception problem? We all have different nervous systems with different sensitivities so what? Its amazes me how just a few people can take an informative helpful thread and turn it into their own narcassistic playground.
:confused:

LeonX
Dec 17, 2008, 12:01 PM
That's strange, because the problem has also been reported on a few Macbook Pros which are glass. I do agree that they will need to find another manufacturer besides C-M.

there are problems very similar to the MBA issue - but they are not necessarily the same. the old powerbook line issue for example (pictured on the photo that you can find everywhere) was different. so I can only speak for the mba problem which I examined and I do review lots of laptops in my job.

Blue Velvet
Dec 17, 2008, 01:24 PM
I've had to delete some posts here.

What did I say earlier about not posting in this thread if you're happy with your MBA and see no lines? I'm not kidding around.

Post here if you think the problem doesn't exist. (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=615953)

Tommigun
Dec 17, 2008, 04:07 PM
I just got my MBA 2nd gen (1.6Ghz, HD), manufactured week 50, and can confirm that the problem still persists.

I too think that all MBAs have this issue, and the defect just isn't visible to everyone (just like running a CRT in 60hz was fine for some people). Also, the lines are mostly visible when looking at something which is bright and mostly in one color (different shades of light gray and red seem to be most prone to this). I see them constantly when browsing the web and am able to reproduce it 100% with the test image on http://tft.vanity.dk/monitorTest_scale.html, and the flickering with http://www.keithstravels.com/travelog/photos/desktopsplit-loginscreen.jpg. Also, being in a dark room will help.

On first startup I instantly saw that something was funky with the screen but it took some time before my eyes started focusing on the lines, and once you have spotted them you will see them constantly. My eyes get really strained by reading text as the lines 'behind' the text in the bright background causes what could be best described as a 'hologram' effect, ie you get a strange 3d effect which makes it VERY hard for your eyes to stay focused on the text.

I will either take this unit back (as it also suffers from some major backlight bleeding in the top of the screen), or ask for a screen replacement later on. This is my first Mac so can they guarantee a screen replacement via phone, or should I just go for a refund?

Also, this is DEFINITELY a hardware problem; no firmware update could ever fix this. It looks like there's air bubbles/patches of air between the LCD film and the glossy screen 'glass', or rather between the LCD panel and the backlight. How could a firmware cure that? :P

Tommi

justit
Dec 17, 2008, 04:56 PM
I will either take this unit back (as it also suffers from some major backlight bleeding in the top of the screen), or ask for a screen replacement later on.
It's been noted that some in this forum have been told the grey lines are "within spec" meaning they don't think it needs fixing. Better to take care of this within refund policy.

This is my first Mac so can they guarantee a screen replacement via phone, or should I just go for a refund?
Tommi

Over thr phone means that you have to mail it in wait for them to fix and send back but repairs do get done this way.

Word of caution, no one has gotton a fixed screen back from apple.

The Toddfather
Dec 17, 2008, 06:14 PM
Trying not to break the rules...

I took my MBA to a conference today and asked people to look closely to see if they saw lines of any kind. NO ONE, I REPEAT - NO ONE of the 30+ people saw lines of any kind. Almost every single person who looked at the screen commented on how clear the screen was. To say this affects all MBA's is simply not true and shows ignorance rarely seen on this forum.

Tommigun
Dec 17, 2008, 06:30 PM
Trying not to break the rules...

I took my MBA to a conference today and asked people to look closely to see if they saw lines of any kind. NO ONE, I REPEAT - NO ONE of the 30+ people saw lines of any kind. Almost every single person who looked at the screen commented on how clear the screen was. To say this affects all MBA's is simply not true and shows ignorance rarely seen on this forum.

You sir might be correct, but have you considered this?

*) I didn't see the lines at first either, noone at my office saw them under fluoroscent lights.

*) I only managed to see them at home in a dim environment, and after they become visible you will see them all the time. I then took it to work today and asked coworkers whether they saw the lines when I pointed out where to look and then people DID see them! These are graphics artists, and THEY DIDN'T SEE THEM AT FIRST EITHER, but after a more thorough examination they DID see them.

*) People who can see the lines, to my knowledge, has not seen a SINGLE SCREEN WITHOUT THEM!

*) People who can't see the lines, to my knowledge, has not seen them on a SINGLE SCREEN!

I honestly think it is just a matter of right viewing distance, lighting and proper image on the screen. If you look at the screen from far or under a lamp or look at a very colorful image you won't see them.

Sdevante
Dec 17, 2008, 06:32 PM
FWIW - Just received my MBA 2nd gen from Apple.com. It does have the grey lines, but similar to the ones I've seen at the Apple Store, I have to be just about up on the screen to really notice it, so I'm not going to worry about it. Good luck everyone.

The Toddfather
Dec 17, 2008, 06:37 PM
You sir might be correct, but have you considered this?

*) I didn't see the lines at first either, noone at my office saw them under fluoroscent lights.

*) I only managed to see them at home in a dim environment, and after they become visible you will see them all the time. I then took it to work today and asked coworkers whether they saw the lines when I pointed out where to look and then people DID see them! These are graphics artists, and THEY DIDN'T SEE THEM AT FIRST EITHER, but after a more thorough examination they DID see them.

*) People who can see the lines, to my knowledge, has not seen a SINGLE SCREEN WITHOUT THEM!

*) People who can't see the lines, to my knowledge, has not seen them on a SINGLE SCREEN!

I honestly think it is just a matter of right viewing distance, lighting and proper image on the screen. If you look at the screen from far or under a lamp or look at a very colorful image you won't see them.

Every time I take out the MBA, people look at it. In all types of lighting and at all angles, no one has seen lines. My guess is you have a bad screen, I believe that because you have stated so. By trying to convince me my screen is bad and never having looked at it, it leads me to believe you are bitter - and misery loves company.

The Toddfather
Dec 17, 2008, 06:38 PM
FWIW - Just received my MBA 2nd gen from Apple.com. It does have the grey lines, but similar to the ones I've seen at the Apple Store, I have to be just about up on the screen to really notice it, so I'm not going to worry about it. Good luck everyone.

No sir, I don't buy it. According to many on this forum, the lines are huge and you get headaches, you just don't realize it.

justit
Dec 17, 2008, 06:46 PM
I have to be just about up on the screen to really notice it, so I'm not going to worry about it. Good luck everyone.

Wish I had your job. ;) I have to look at colors more accurately, and a grey dithered pattern on everything obstructs the view.

macbook123
Dec 17, 2008, 07:01 PM
No sir, I don't buy it. According to many on this forum, the lines are huge and you get headaches, you just don't realize it.

Why do we even have to argue about this when everybody has a digital camera at home and is able to take a photo and post it? Nobody claiming to not have the lines or have them should be believed unless he/she posts a photo. This thread is enormous but only *one* person has posted pictures. What the heck? Has anybody anywhere on macrumors posted a picture of a MBA screen *without* the lines?

Tommigun
Dec 17, 2008, 07:26 PM
Why do we even have to argue about this when everybody has a digital camera at home and is able to take a photo and post it? Nobody claiming to not have the lines or have them should be believed unless he/she posts a photo. This thread is enormous but only *one* person has posted pictures. What the heck? Has anybody anywhere on macrumors posted a picture of a MBA screen *without* the lines?

I'll post pictures tomorrow if the good camera is at the office (of an MBA with the lines).

Ironic
Dec 17, 2008, 07:39 PM
Why do we even have to argue about this when everybody has a digital camera at home and is able to take a photo and post it? Nobody claiming to not have the lines or have them should be believed unless he/she posts a photo. This thread is enormous but only *one* person has posted pictures. What the heck? Has anybody anywhere on macrumors posted a picture of a MBA screen *without* the lines?

http://att.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=148188&d=1229141854

macbook123
Dec 17, 2008, 07:41 PM
http://att.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=148188&d=1229141854

Is this supposed to be without the lines? I don't see horizontal ones at least...

Thanks.

Edit: I saw from your signature that it's rev B. Awesome, an example without lines!

The Toddfather
Dec 17, 2008, 09:35 PM
Why do we even have to argue about this when everybody has a digital camera at home and is able to take a photo and post it? Nobody claiming to not have the lines or have them should be believed unless he/she posts a photo. This thread is enormous but only *one* person has posted pictures. What the heck? Has anybody anywhere on macrumors posted a picture of a MBA screen *without* the lines?

I took these at VGA setting because I could not get the others to upload...

Cynicalone
Dec 17, 2008, 10:17 PM
Why do we even have to argue about this when everybody has a digital camera at home and is able to take a photo and post it? Nobody claiming to not have the lines or have them should be believed unless he/she posts a photo. This thread is enormous but only *one* person has posted pictures. What the heck? Has anybody anywhere on macrumors posted a picture of a MBA screen *without* the lines?

It's hard to get a good pic of the screen but here is my Late 08 Air this makes it look terrible but there are no lines.

http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/oo116/jarodokc/DSC00146.jpg

steffi
Dec 17, 2008, 10:20 PM
When I want to see the lines I simply go and open up a new window is TextEdit and make the screen all white and then it's pretty easy to see the lines.

It's hard to get a good pic of the screen but here is my Late 08 Air this makes it look terrible but there are no lines.

http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/oo116/jarodokc/DSC00146.jpg

Cynicalone
Dec 17, 2008, 10:32 PM
When I want to see the lines I simply go and open up a new window is TextEdit and make the screen all white and then it's pretty easy to see the lines.

Alright I tried. I think it's more of a camera problem than anything. I'm using a Sony DSC W-120.

http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/oo116/jarodokc/DSC00149.jpg

http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/oo116/jarodokc/DSC00151.jpg

ClancyNYC
Dec 17, 2008, 10:45 PM
Hi all, I'm a long-time lurker. You guys have helped me through many Mac purchases, but this screen problem has me stumped.

I'm on my third MBA rev. 2. All three were week 44, screen 9C9A and had the lines to varying degrees. Happily, this latest MBA doesn't have the flickering - no more headaches - but it does have a bit of reverse backlight bleeding at the bottom of the screen. Because I've also seen the lines on three display machines, I think I'm just going to be happy with a flicker-free screen.

Applecare told me they are investigating the video card.

macbook123
Dec 18, 2008, 12:02 AM
Alright I tried. I think it's more of a camera problem than anything. I'm using a Sony DSC W-120.

http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/oo116/jarodokc/DSC00149.jpg

http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/oo116/jarodokc/DSC00151.jpg

Do you have lines or not? It seems there's no clear trend towards horizontal lines, just similarly horizontal and vertical ones, which may just be an artifact of the photo. Same with Toddfather, who says above he has the lines, but I can't see predominantly horizontal structure in the pictures. Can everybody add to their postings whether they see horizontal lines by eye or not? Thanks all, this is extremely helpful in my decision making whether I should buy an Air now or hold off.

michaelffm
Dec 18, 2008, 05:06 AM
Just recieved my MBA 1,6 HDD - this flickering is terrible!
I've read about it but I've never had any idea how terrible this is
I cannot look 10 Minutes on the screen without getting sickness.

Apple should really do something because I think there are many people ready to sue Apple because of this (and I understand this completely! This is a horror machine :eek:)

Cynicalone
Dec 18, 2008, 11:09 AM
Do you have lines or not? It seems there's no clear trend towards horizontal lines, just similarly horizontal and vertical ones, which may just be an artifact of the photo. Same with Toddfather, who says above he has the lines, but I can't see predominantly horizontal structure in the pictures. Can everybody add to their postings whether they see horizontal lines by eye or not? Thanks all, this is extremely helpful in my decision making whether I should buy an Air now or hold off.

No lines and no flickering. I have one of the first late 08 airs (1.86 ghz 128GB SSD).

michaelffm
Dec 18, 2008, 12:32 PM
If you watch the test image and then set the display colors to 32768 colors you'll notice the flickering a lot more.
It's hard to see and I think every MBA has this issue but not everyone can see it.
The lines are really only visible if your're trying to find them - the flickering is only visible if you know what you have to look for but then there is really a difference between the MBA displays and other displays

I'm wondering if someone has the technical equipment to measure the screen refresh rate

ninjadex
Dec 18, 2008, 12:45 PM
I took these at VGA setting because I could not get the others to upload...

Believe it or not, but I do believe I see very slight evidence of the lines in these pics. It might not be quite as bad as some other units though.

The Toddfather
Dec 18, 2008, 12:45 PM
...Same with Toddfather, who says above he has the lines...

I do not have the lines.

The Toddfather
Dec 18, 2008, 12:49 PM
Believe it or not, but I do believe I see very slight evidence of the lines in these pics. It might not be quite as bad as some other units though.

A VGA pic on a forum. I have the machine in front of me and there are no lines.

Just curious, do you hear voices too?

ninjadex
Dec 18, 2008, 12:52 PM
A VGA pic on a forum. I have the machine in front of me and there are no lines.

Just curious, do you hear voices too?

No need to be like that. It's not like it was some personal attack.

It's just that I know what to look for, and I do see some slight evidence of the lines.

Ironic
Dec 18, 2008, 09:12 PM
A VGA pic on a forum. I have the machine in front of me and there are no lines.

Just curious, do you hear voices too?


I also posted a picture, clean and clear, Voices, that was a good one,

h1d
Dec 18, 2008, 10:31 PM
He's touchy, so let's talk as every MBA is perfect except the 50 out of thousands. He can't coordinate, so we might have to just for the few to get the thread going.

mhnajjar
Dec 18, 2008, 11:29 PM
I took the MBA I posted pictures of which earlier to the Apple store and the salesman "specialist" was :eek::eek::eek: and he said "I have never seen this issue before on any computer, but I remember seeing it on LCD TVs". Then he brought me a replacement, however, the store manager suggested that a genius "stupid dumba$$" takes a look at it first. After 30 minutes, the salesman came from the back and told me that everything is within specs and that I am seeing things :confused:

Apple sucks and I do not like Apple as much as used to. I have never had any issue with any of all the tons of PCs I used before from Gateway, Dell, HP, Sony, Acer, LG and even the ones I belt myself!

In addition, the whites are YELLOW on my MBA screen and they noticed that also, but they tried to calibrate it to convince me that there is nothing wrong with it even though that I compared it to two MBAs in the sore (rev A & rev B) and both had the same model and manufacturing date and yet they refused to replace it and said that it is within specs.

I also found out that the revA had the save screen as the revB and showed the guys at the store the flickering test compared to a white MB and they were telling me this is NORMAL with LEDs LOOOOOOOOOOL.

Apple employees are worse than McDonald's fryers and they no nothing about their products.

Now an Apple fanboy will come here and try to attack me and say that NOT all Apple employees are like that, well that is correct that NOT all are bunch of jerks, yet they do not know anything about the issues that the consumers are facing and they always pretend that there is nothing wrong with our machines as if we are on drugs :mad:

I will get rid of this revB MBA and never by an :apple: till they fix all their inner issues so they can fix their machines and produce something useable. This AIR is giving me headache every time I try to read something on this sucking striped screen.

michaelffm
Dec 19, 2008, 12:15 AM
I've showed my flickering MBA 8 people so far. Only 4 of them could see the flickering (for me it tooks about 10 minutes to recognize it) but - and that's the point - ALL of them complained about headache after using the MBA for a while.

ashowkati
Dec 19, 2008, 01:01 AM
I just got mine in and it indeed has the grey lines and massive light bleeding across the entire top and bottom.

I'm heading to my local Apple store tomorrow morning to get it replaced, hopefully I'll have better luck, one of my 2 issue should prove legit. I did call ahead tho, the concierge said that they do have my 1.6GHz/120GB model in stock now and she even scheduled me in for an appointment so "they would hassle me". It made me feel pretty good about it.

The only thing I'm worried about is if it will actually solve the problem. What if they change it out and it's the same. I'll make sure to open it at the store to make sure. At this point I'm not so sure I'm gonna be devastated since it's just my "spare" second computer (i also own a 24" iMac,) so I'm not terribly concerned with the issue.

Can someone who successfully swapped it out provide their testimony. Was the problem solved?

LeonX
Dec 19, 2008, 02:15 AM
Can someone who successfully swapped it out provide their testimony. Was the problem solved?

There is no one on this forum yet who successfully replaced an unit with that issue. I tried it myself last night at a reseller store here in Germany. They confirmed the problem and insisted it is a problem with the NVIDIA grafics card and that they believed it will be fixed by a firmware update. I dont know about that, as I previously said I still believe in a hardware issue and so Im giving the lappy back. Anyway if they make it I am the first in line to buy a new one.

ps. mod, could you pls delete all the posts stating again and again that there are no issues? and maybe you could ask the people to stay away from this thread. I ingnored them until now but I am getting sick of arguing....

ashowkati
Dec 19, 2008, 02:30 AM
The thing that is irritation about the lines (at least on my MBA) is that they are at a slight tilt, like 10-15 degrees. If it were just perfectly horizontal, it would be more bearable.

mhnajjar
Dec 19, 2008, 05:01 AM
Guys, the problem is on the screen itself 100%

I hooked up my MBA revB to the 24" LED ACD and everything was PERFECT. This means that the lines are on the screen itself and that there is NOTHING wrong with the nVidia card.

robeddie
Dec 19, 2008, 05:38 AM
I've showed my flickering MBA 8 people so far. Only 4 of them could see the flickering (for me it tooks about 10 minutes to recognize it) but - and that's the point - ALL of them complained about headache after using the MBA for a while.

Honestly people. If you see the lines, or see flickering... just give up on the Air.
It's my assertion that the way 'some' LCD's are made, 'some' people will notice those things. Maybe another screen that has a different refresh rate or pixel density won't bother you, but it WILL bother someone else.

I've said before, on ANY screen if you really concentrate, you'll also see the 'dots' the pixels that make up the screen ... or some OTHER artifact! For instance some kinds of LCD's have a 'glistening' quality to the pixels (the HP LCD I use at work has that). If I decided that bothered me, I wouldn't get a laptop (or desktop) with that kind of screen.

Those 'lines', I believe are just a result of the mechanical structure of this kind of screen. And especially if you fixate on trying to see them, and you spend all day reading about them, it's going to bother you. I notice faint lines on my screen when I really look closely and angle the screen so I'm looking at it at an upward angle. But when I'm playing a game, surfing the web ... I totally forget about it ... that is, until I stop by here and read this forum with the same 20 people discussing back and forth about these lines.

Trade in your MacBook Air and don't get another one. If the issue hurts apple sales enough... maybe they'll have a different screen in the next generation, or maybe they'll stop producing the Air altogether.

robeddie
Dec 19, 2008, 05:47 AM
It seems Apple indeed has become the 'GOTCHA' company.

You were ready to upgrade your old white Macbook, partly because the crappy plastic was spontaneously breaking apart.

GOTCHA!

So you got excited when the new Macbook was announced, only to discover - no firewire.

GOTCHA!

You decided to buy it anyway, figuring you don't use firewire that much really, and then discover that the screen is dimmer, has a far worse viewing angle, and much worse contrast than the Macbook Air or Macbook Pro screen.

GOTCHA!

So, you decided to buy a Macbook Air, only to discover that this screen has faint grey lines on it.

GOTCHA!

So, you finally decide to bite the bullet and get a Macbook Pro, but then remember that it, like the Macbook, has a super glossy glass screen that makes it annoying to use in a variety of light, including outdoors (after all, isn't that why we get a laptop in the first place, to use it everywhere?)

GOTCHA!

Dejected, you decide to look at closeout, previous model Macbook Pro's with the matte screen. The price is great, but then you remember, that GT8600 card is supposedly faulty.

GOTCHA!

Ironic
Dec 19, 2008, 07:10 AM
I took the MBA I posted pictures of which earlier to the Apple store and the salesman "specialist" was :eek::eek::eek: and he said "I have never seen this issue before on any computer, but I remember seeing it on LCD TVs". Then he brought me a replacement, however, the store manager suggested that a genius "stupid dumba$$" takes a look at it first. After 30 minutes, the salesman came from the back and told me that everything is within specs and that I am seeing things :confused:

Apple sucks and I do not like Apple as much as used to. I have never had any issue with any of all the tons of PCs I used before from Gateway, Dell, HP, Sony, Acer, LG and even the ones I belt myself!

In addition, the whites are YELLOW on my MBA screen and they noticed that also, but they tried to calibrate it to convince me that there is nothing wrong with it even though that I compared it to two MBAs in the sore (rev A & rev B) and both had the same model and manufacturing date and yet they refused to replace it and said that it is within specs.

I also found out that the revA had the save screen as the revB and showed the guys at the store the flickering test compared to a white MB and they were telling me this is NORMAL with LEDs LOOOOOOOOOOL.

Apple employees are worse than McDonald's fryers and they no nothing about their products.

Now an Apple fanboy will come here and try to attack me and say that NOT all Apple employees are like that, well that is correct that NOT all are bunch of jerks, yet they do not know anything about the issues that the consumers are facing and they always pretend that there is nothing wrong with our machines as if we are on drugs :mad:

I will get rid of this revB MBA and never by an :apple: till they fix all their inner issues so they can fix their machines and produce something useable. This AIR is giving me headache every time I try to read something on this sucking striped screen.

As too the yellowing seems like i saw that too after the update, it took me 5 minutes to change it back to white, now its fine.

sychee
Dec 19, 2008, 07:27 AM
As too the yellowing seems like i saw that too after the update, it took me 5 minutes to change it back to white, now its fine.

What is your color setting? Pls share your color profile. Thanks.

Ironic
Dec 19, 2008, 07:41 AM
What is your color setting? Pls share your color profile. Thanks.I posted it on one of the line threads already.

The Toddfather
Dec 19, 2008, 09:55 AM
...ps. mod, could you pls delete all the posts stating again and again that there are no issues? and maybe you could ask the people to stay away from this thread. I ingnored them until now but I am getting sick of arguing....

Actually someone asked for "those who don't have lines" to post pics to prove it. If honesty offends you, let me be the first to apologize.

davnee
Dec 19, 2008, 10:40 AM
Honestly people. If you see the lines, or see flickering... just give up on the Air.
It's my assertion that the way 'some' LCD's are made, 'some' people will notice those things. Maybe another screen that has a different refresh rate or pixel density won't bother you, but it WILL bother someone else.

Actually I did give up on the Air. But these "in spec" Apple apologias crack me up. We're talking about a $2,500 machine. A screen that causes headaches in a significant number of customers (not to mention looks like parchment paper) is not just the product of being an LCD. My LCD TV sure as heck doesn't make me sick or look like muddied crap from any viewing distance.

Ironic
Dec 19, 2008, 11:22 AM
I Love my MBA and would not trade it for anything(unless the new iMacs have a amazing design)

frifra
Dec 19, 2008, 06:16 PM
So Ironic, we ALL know by now that YOU LOVE YOUR FLAWLESS MBA more than anything else in the world and that its just perfect and nothing is wrong with it. - So why do you post this over and over again? Especially in this THREAD? (Consider this as an rhetorical question).

Further - to stay on topic - I have to say, that all the pictures which are posted on page 5/6 of this thread are worthless.
This was already discussed in another Thread, that it is really hard to take a picture of the lines (even with different camera types, flash etc etc.). For me it is easily possible to take a thousand pictures of my MBA Screen (which is affected and has lines) without any notice of them on the picture. The only lines which you can see on the pics are not horizontal and due to some interference between display and camera (which appear on every picture of a display).

The Toddfather
Dec 19, 2008, 06:28 PM
I see dead people.:eek:

Ironic
Dec 19, 2008, 06:50 PM
So Ironic, we ALL know by now that YOU LOVE YOUR FLAWLESS MBA more than anything else in the world and that its just perfect and nothing is wrong with it. - So why do you post this over and over again? Especially in this THREAD? (Consider this as an rhetorical question).

Further - to stay on topic - I have to say, that all the pictures which are posted on page 5/6 of this thread are worthless.
This was already discussed in another Thread, that it is really hard to take a picture of the lines (even with different camera types, flash etc etc.). For me it is easily possible to take a thousand pictures of my MBA Screen (which is affected and has lines) without any notice of them on the picture. The only lines which you can see on the pics are not horizontal and due to some interference between display and camera (which appear on every picture of a display).


even IF mine was flawed, I still would love it. Either return it, or Love it. its that simple.

alphaxono
Dec 19, 2008, 08:47 PM
To all the people with the MBA's that are just so perfect (I mean you Ironic and Toddfather). You have your own thread and you are getting on my nerves. Every other comment is made by one of you saying how perfect and rosy everything is or trying to make some smart ass comments which are actually not funny ("I see dead people"...really? That's the best you could come up with?). I don't care how it is for you, no one asked!
If I had a MBA that was flawless I would not even think about spending my time trolling around this thread. Don't get me wrong, I am happy that you guys have at least this one thing that is going right for you, but please for the sake of keeping this informational. STOP!!!!

Maven1975
Dec 19, 2008, 09:00 PM
Just want to put it out there.. I have owned two 1.86 SSD Airs with line issues. In addition, the Apple store's located in Glendale, Scottsdale, Arrowhead and San Tan Arizona have display MBA's with line issues. While this doesn't vouch for all, it is a clear indication that there are issues out there.

I seriously miss my Air, but this MBP 2.53 is growing each day.

mac jones
Dec 19, 2008, 10:32 PM
Everything has flaws.

mhnajjar
Dec 20, 2008, 05:25 AM
The problem is not having flaws, but having a company not appreciating its customers by stating "this is within specs".

Well, I checked the specs sheets and I did not see that the screen comes with "thin grey horizontal lines" lol

ninjadex
Dec 20, 2008, 07:22 AM
I mean you Ironic and Toddfather

Yeah, it's pretty sad to see the way some people treat others. I think is safe to say that nobody wants any more input in this thread from these two. They have gone above and beyond to prove themselves as trolls.

Ironic
Dec 20, 2008, 08:03 AM
Yeah, it's pretty sad to see the way some people treat others. I think is safe to say that nobody wants any more input in this thread from these two. They have gone above and beyond to prove themselves as trolls.Yea, we are trolls, because we have a opinion that is not liked.:cool:

Lumpydog
Dec 20, 2008, 08:29 AM
Yea, we are trolls, because we have a opinion that is not liked.:cool:

Ironic - I follow a lot of the threads here. Personally, I find your comments to be high in quantity and low in value - some are borderline taunting - after you've been asked to stop.

Please consider posting less - if you're not furthering the conversation or adding something new, don't post it.

The Toddfather
Dec 20, 2008, 11:58 AM
Yeah, it's pretty sad to see the way some people treat others. I think is safe to say that nobody wants any more input in this thread from these two. They have gone above and beyond to prove themselves as trolls.

Here's the issue ninja, someone on this thread asked to see pics of an MBA without the lines. I, and others, posted pics of good screens and then was told that is didn't prove anything. One joker even said that it did indeed have lines, which is quite arrogant when you consider I use it everyday, don't see the lines and have posted pics to the contrary. I purchased this computer for nearly $2700 (with tax), trust me, if there was an issue it would have gone back.

If you have a bad screen, I feel bad for you and I hope Apple fixes it, but to try to attack someone just because they do not have the issue is silly. If you're mad at Apple because they gave you a crap product I understand you being mad at them, but to try to make everyone else miserable is misguided.

ashowkati
Dec 20, 2008, 12:37 PM
A few things are making me revisit another theory I read somewhere where the lines are blamed on the anti-glare coating on the screens. I don't want this to turn into an argument on if I'm insinuating they exist on every screen (we've got a few pages full of that already). The reason I was brought to this theory was because yesterday while using my brother's MacBook (aluminum), I noticed the lines. But that wasn't even it. It was when I was watching Diggnation. Last night's episode was sponsored by PSP 3000, so when it came time to talk about their sponsors, they mentioned that the PSP now has an anti-glare screen. Then when it cut to the close up of him holding it, IT HAD LINES!

http://sswestern.com/images/Picture1.png

Although they were a lot more noticeable on the PSP, they were eerily similar to our lines. Just some food for thought. Here's the episode link. (http://revision3.com/diggnation/alexhouse/) It occurs at 32:25

LeonX
Dec 20, 2008, 01:20 PM
Although they were a lot more noticeable on the PSP, they were eerily similar to our lines. Just some food for thought. Here's the episode link. (http://revision3.com/diggnation/alexhouse/) It occurs at 32:25

dont thinks these are "our" lines. I guess this is just happening because the screen was filmed...

Maven1975
Dec 20, 2008, 01:44 PM
Interesting that they are not present in Rev. A machines. Are the cables attached to the monitor the same as Rev. A? If so, I guess one could buy a Rev. A from Apple and do the work they refuse themselves. (Swap)

SummerBoy
Dec 20, 2008, 03:19 PM
I orderd 1.8 128 SSD Macbook air.

Yes, it does have lines and it sucks... week 48.

I don't wanna go all the hassle returning this and I like it so I will keep it

and hopefully software update would fix it

mhnajjar
Dec 20, 2008, 06:29 PM
I orderd 1.8 128 SSD Macbook air.

Yes, it does have lines and it sucks... week 48.

I don't wanna go all the hassle returning this and I like it so I will keep it

and hopefully software update would fix it

A software update canNOT fix this since it runs fine on an external monitor. I tried it on the 24" LED ACD and it was PERFECT. This means the lines are on the screen itself.

SummerBoy
Dec 20, 2008, 07:58 PM
A software update canNOT fix this since it runs fine on an external monitor. I tried it on the 24" LED ACD and it was PERFECT. This means the lines are on the screen itself.

That's very surprise..

wow.. I'd never expected this kind of crap would happen to $2700 laptop..

Well..I mean what should I do? really..I'm stunned... haha

zer0tails
Dec 20, 2008, 11:28 PM
Not sure if anyone has confirmed this yet but I'm thinking its not the LCD that is defective but the lines are a result of the screen coating.

what do ya'all think?

mhnajjar
Dec 21, 2008, 05:12 AM
Sometimes I think that the lines are just some dirt behind the screen like a residue or something!

tubbymac
Dec 21, 2008, 05:44 AM
I swung by Apple Store Yorkdale while xmas shopping last night. I went there to buy the Macbook Air for myself. I wanted to be certain of the lines though, so I followed the instructions posted in frifra's post here to see if I could reproduce the flickering and the lines. He mentioned this store and until now I haven't been able to find any Macbook Air rev B with the lines:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=6714050&postcount=578

I was able to reproduce the results. I saw both the flickering and the lines for the first time. Argh! That cost Apple the sale. One of the employees there I asked over and he was able to see it as well. I tried to get a good angle to take a picture of the lines and couldn't get any angle with enough light to show the lines on my iPhone.

The test pattern actually passed. The one where it said "if both sides of this picture look the same color your display has passed." There was a very noticeable flickering on the edges of the picture though. I could not confirm whether this was due to the lightning of the Apple Store or if this was the display itself. Since other people have seen the flickering at their own homes, I'm guessing it wasn't the lights.

I used the flash app on that link to give myself a white browser. The lines to me looked nothing like the pictures I've seen so far. They were faint, slightly yellow and gray. They appeared to be located on the top layer of the screen ABOVE the layer with the actual LCD pixels. When I moved my head around the lines seemed to move around and did not seem to be "stuck" to the pixels. Imagine one of those parallax side scrolling games where different layers of the background move independently, that's what it looked like.

mhnajjar
Dec 21, 2008, 06:46 AM
You are right and I am glad that you were able to see them lines before purchasing a defective machine and then Apple not acknowledging them as a defect!

BrianGriffin
Dec 22, 2008, 01:36 PM
There is nothing wrong with the MB Air screens.

This "Lines" issue is starting to sound like a panto :D Hopefully I can put this argument to rest:

I currently have an open case with an Apple Executive Relations Manager who called me on Friday 19th December 2008 and said "We can confirm the 'lines' issue with the new MacBook Air, we are aware of the problem and our engineering team is working on a resolution 24/7". I asked if the problem was hardware or software related and he said "I am unable to confirm either way at this stage".

So Apple has confirmed the problem, but the cause is unknown at this stage.


Happy Christmas !

BrianGriffin
Dec 22, 2008, 01:38 PM
I see dead people.:eek:

That made me laugh :D

Hey Jude
Dec 22, 2008, 03:22 PM
I was able to reproduce the results. I saw both the flickering and the lines for the first time. Argh! That cost Apple the sale



Yeah, I feel the same way. Apple won't see a dime from me until this issue is resolved.



This "Lines" issue is starting to sound like a panto :D Hopefully I can put this argument to rest:

I currently have an open case with an Apple Executive Relations Manager who called me on Friday 19th December 2008 and said "We can confirm the 'lines' issue with the new MacBook Air, we are aware of the problem and our engineering team is working on a resolution 24/7". I asked if the problem was hardware or software related and he said "I am unable to confirm either way at this stage".

So Apple has confirmed the problem, but the cause is unknown at this stage.


Happy Christmas !

Great, I hope the issue pertaining to the lines is finally put to bed.

Jude

LeonX
Dec 22, 2008, 03:50 PM
I currently have an open case with an Apple Executive Relations Manager who called me on Friday 19th December 2008 and said "We can confirm the 'lines' issue with the new MacBook Air, we are aware of the problem and our engineering team is working on a resolution 24/7". I asked if the problem was hardware or software related and he said "I am unable to confirm either way at this stage".

So Apple has confirmed the problem, but the cause is unknown at this stage.


Funny, I would think they just use another panel - if its gone its the panel, if not they change every single component after another. A couple of hours later they should know whos the culprit. try and error.

But if thats true this is really good news. I did got refund for my rev.B and the money is just waiting for a new mba. But don't wait too long, Apple, theres a lot I can do with 2100 euros...

Maven1975
Dec 23, 2008, 02:14 AM
Well what do you know, I got a screen with no lines!

I was at the mall yesterday evening and decided to poke my head into the local Apple store. The two MBA's on display in front of the store had lines. I decided to kill some time and tinker with the stuff inside the store when I stumbled upon a third MBA near the Genius bar.

I approached it to check for lines with little hope for improvement. However, I found it to be flawless like my Rev. A. Then I checked the spec's, 1.6 / 120GB!

Now.. you gonna think I am nuts, but I purchased a 1.86 (WK 46) and a 1.6 (WK 50) that night to examine things closer. Just as in the store, the 1.6 is flawless! The 1.86... well.. just crap.

Today, I had the screens swapped. I now have my 1.86 MBA back and am extremely pleased. The genuis bar said they were thankful that I pointed out this issue. Honestly, I think they are just happy the PIA is happy and out of the store.

No more yellow and or lines! There is still slight screen flicker, but this is also present on the new MBP I have and my friends new MB. Could this be from the introduction of LED and the way Apple's hardware is managing its power consumption?

P .00 6
B133EW03 V2
Color LCD


Now, off to list this MBP!

LeonX
Dec 23, 2008, 04:08 AM
Well what do you know, I got a screen with no lines!

However, I found it to be flawless like my Rev. A. Then I checked the spec's, 1.6 / 120GB!
Now.. you gonna think I am nuts, but I purchased a 1.86 (WK 46) and a 1.6 (WK 50) that night to examine things closer. Just as in the store, the 1.6 is flawless! The 1.86... well.. just crap.
Today, I had the screens swapped. I now have my 1.86 MBA back and am extremely pleased. The genuis bar said they were thankful that I pointed out this issue. Honestly, I think they are just happy the PIA is happy and out of the store.

P .00 6
B133EW03 V2
Color LCD


Now, off to list this MBP!

Well, thats what I was hoping for when I started the other thread about the display models. If thats true you are actually the first person who saw both good and bad units and its proven that its a screen issue. I hope you are right and keep my eye open for week 50 models with crisp screens. I would instantly get one! The only thing is that someone in the other thread mentioned that he got that panel as well and still got lines...

justit
Dec 23, 2008, 09:17 AM
However, I found it to be flawless like my Rev. A. Then I checked the spec's, 1.6 / 120GB!

Much respect for actually knowing the difference between a bad and good screen unlike much of the other noise in this thread. :D

applenerd
Dec 23, 2008, 12:53 PM
Hi there,

Sadly I too have a week 44 model (1.86 SSD) and also have the lines problem.

My friend has an air (1.8 SSD) and his model does not exhibit the same problem. There is no recycled paper style texture (created by the grainy lines) visible in solid colours or elsewhere.

When compared side by side it is obvious there is a fault.

For those who think the fault is dependant on the user I hope this proves otherwise.

Someone on this thread said they swapped screens and this solved the problem. Has anyone else found this true?

I hoped Apple would have some input but Applecare said they had never heard of the problem. Think a refund and another Sony is the solution.

Regards,

Lumpydog
Dec 23, 2008, 02:56 PM
Today, I had the screens swapped.

How did you have that done? Did the Apple store actually take them apart and swap the physical screens? How long did it take?

Maven1975
Dec 23, 2008, 05:22 PM
How did you have that done? Did the Apple store actually take them apart and swap the physical screens? How long did it take?

This was the same store that had returned my two previous Air's. The manager was reluctant to sell me a 1.6, let alone a 1.6 and a 1.86 at the same time. I showed him the 1.6 on the sales floor and it seemed to finally spark his interests.

This is not a dig on anyone, but I felt the 4200 RPM drive unacceptable. I have been using SSD for the last year in my systems and have become jaded. I could have purchased a HD on eBay, but the price difference with the CPU upgrade is next to nothing. So, I was on a mission to get my 1.86 SSD!

I called the manager that same evening and told him that the 1.6 seemed to have an acceptable screen. He scheduled a genius bar appointment for the following day to take care of the issue.

On the way in, I purchased them a dozen cookies from the bakery in the mall. I felt that they were going the extra mile at this point and they appreciated the gesture.

The Genius and Manager were both shocked and impressed with the results. They have promised to forward the findings to the proper channels. The whole procedure took about an hour.

justit
Dec 23, 2008, 05:39 PM
I purchased them a dozen cookies

You're telling me a few cookies stand in the way of getting my 3rd MBA B screen replaced?? :eek:

Maven1975
Dec 23, 2008, 05:56 PM
You're telling me a few cookies stand in the way of getting my 3rd MBA B screen replaced?? :eek:

I know, it was kind of lame. But hey, they put up with me and thats no easy task.

FYI, The first part of the serial on the good 1.6 was W8850.

shokunin
Dec 23, 2008, 06:15 PM
I also have a 1.86/128ssd with lines...

The lines angle downwards from left to right. Annoying.

http://www.kiso.net/images/mbalines.jpg

Constantinos
Dec 23, 2008, 07:34 PM
Just got today a week 50 MBA Rev. 2 from Apple Store in Westfield, London UK.

Have to report to fellow colleagues here that the screen is perfect the 4 finger swipes work and the machine flies. Did a migration of literally everything from my 'old' MBA Rev. 1 (settings, applications and more than 30 GB of documents and other files) in under 2 hrs using the migration assistant over an ad hoc computer to computer wireless network.

Congratulations Apple !

nmook
Dec 23, 2008, 11:12 PM
Just for an update, I stopped by the Apple Store at Tysons Corner, Virginia (one of the company's biggest stores).

They had a Week 50 1.6Ghz Rev. 2 MBA and a Week 43 1.8Ghz Rev. 2 MBA on display.

The Week 50 1.6Ghz DID HAVE the same line problem, although they were slightly fainter than the 1.8Ghz W43. So this problem has definitely not been fixed in all Week 50s.

One Apple Store employee couldn't see the lines at first, but acknowledged them once I had him stare at the screen a bit. He still said he could barely see them. Another Apple Store employee saw the lines immediately like myself and agreed they were annoying.

So I guess a lot depends on your eyes.

nmook
Dec 23, 2008, 11:14 PM
I also have a 1.86/128ssd with lines...

The lines angle downwards from left to right. Annoying.

This is the best image of the lines yet, good job catching them with the camera -- it's not an easy feat!!

justit
Dec 24, 2008, 12:23 AM
In this photo, the bands seem rather thick, mine are much thinner but follow the same type of pattern

tubbymac
Dec 24, 2008, 03:15 AM
I also have a 1.86/128ssd with lines...

The lines angle downwards from left to right. Annoying.


Wow, that is the first actual picture of the line problem I've seen. The one most of us are talking about is exactly this, where the lines do not fall on pixel boundaries. Amazing you were able to take a picture of it, as it's very difficult to get on camera.

The one I saw angled in the other direction, from right to left and the lines were slightly thinner. I wonder if the horizontal lines that others have posted pictures of that fall exactly on pixel boundaries is a different problem. Maybe there are two issues. The lines on pixels could be a panel defect and the ones not stuck to the pixels could be an interference/top coating defect.

SummerBoy
Dec 26, 2008, 12:20 PM
I've got lines but I think i can live with it..

but if you are going to use it all day long or most of time, this is gonna be

tough..

tubbymac
Dec 26, 2008, 08:43 PM
Was browsing for Boxing Day sales today at the mall and passed by the Apple Store at Fairview Mall in Toronto, Canada. This was where I saw a Macbook Air rev B without the lines a while ago next to a rev A without the lines. They now have only the rev B models on display, one with the 1.6/120 hard drive and the other with the 1.8/128 ssd. Both units have the horizontal lines and the lines slant in a slightly downwards diagonal slope from left to right much like the last picture posted. Both had the flicker as well on the test pattern, but I didn't notice the flicker outside of the test pattern.

LeonX
Dec 27, 2008, 07:58 AM
Was browsing for Boxing Day sales today at the mall and passed by the Apple Store at Fairview Mall in Toronto, Canada. This was where I saw a Macbook Air rev B without the lines a while ago next to a rev A without the lines. They now have only the rev B models on display, one with the 1.6/120 hard drive and the other with the 1.8/128 ssd. Both units have the horizontal lines and the lines slant in a slightly downwards diagonal slope from left to right much like the last picture posted. Both had the flicker as well on the test pattern, but I didn't notice the flicker outside of the test pattern.

you didnt check for the display type and the build week, did you?

ichigo11
Dec 27, 2008, 05:36 PM
Went to the Westchester Mall in NY saw the new 1.6ghz MBA with perfect screen and the 1.8 next to it have the line issue.

Planning on going to the Apple store tomorrow or Monday see if they will replace my screen or let me exchange it for a new week 50 1.8ghz and see how that goes.

Does anyone know if I'm past my 14days return period can I still request them to exchange for a new MBA? Or will they just try to fix the problem on the old machine?

justit
Dec 27, 2008, 05:55 PM
new 1.6ghz MBA with perfect screen

Go for a screen replacement. Cross your fingers they keep that perfect screen on display when you bring yours in as it's your only argument to have it replaced. After dealing with 3 different stores that all have bad Rev B screens, the argument back from genius' is that "it's just built that way". Even with an older Rev A on display with a good screen will get you a "that was a different manufacturer" response and they are correct for saying that.

It's a highly subjective problem as some genius' can't tell the difference :cool:, so I seriously don't think they will get you a new machine after the 14 day return.

McGilli
Dec 27, 2008, 06:06 PM
How come now - people are saying the lines are on a slant?!? that has to be interference instead of a lcd build issue....

For the past 6 weeks no one ever mentioned a slant?

Is this a new lcd issue?

Either way whoever has one with issues - hope you get it taken care of soon....

some people on her have said that executive relations are looking into theirs etc - any news?

justit
Dec 27, 2008, 06:23 PM
How come now - people are saying the lines are on a slant?!? that has to be interference instead of a lcd build issue....

You're probably right with the interference as other have mentioned. It's not a pixel related problem. It's the same problem, very hard to describe but the slant is slight and it does bend a bit causing the dithering.

tubbymac
Dec 27, 2008, 11:55 PM
you didnt check for the display type and the build week, did you?

Nope I didn't think to check on those. Next time I pass by I'll record those numbers down.

LeonX
Dec 29, 2008, 04:11 AM
I wonder if anybody ordered an MBA online recently and got a week 50+ and can confirm that there are good units being shipped.

mhobelsb
Dec 29, 2008, 08:56 AM
i have have a week 51 revB. Still have lines and the flickering.

greetings

martin

LeonX
Dec 29, 2008, 05:42 PM
i have have a week 51 revB. Still have lines and the flickering.

greetings

martin

did you get the hd or the ssd version?
and what panel do you have? (you can check it with this terminal command:
ioreg -lw0 | grep IODisplayEDID | sed "/[^<]*</s///" | xxd -p -r | strings -6
)

shokunin
Dec 29, 2008, 10:59 PM
ioreg -lw0 | grep IODisplayEDID | sed "/[^<]*</s///" | xxd -p -r | strings -6


I did the command in terminal, my week 47 with lines (photo several posts above) says:


P .00 6
B133EW03 V0
Color LCD

mhobelsb
Dec 30, 2008, 01:51 AM
My Week 51 RevB is a 1,86 with 120GB HDD (and as bonus lines and flickering. ;) ). The terminal states:

P .00 6
B133EW03 V2
Color LCD

Greetings

Martin

LeonX
Dec 30, 2008, 04:19 AM
maybe its a stupid question, but I wonder if the coating ist part of the panel or is it something that is applied in a seperate step during the manufacturing process? so basically: is it possible to get the same panel model with diffrent coatings?

sonicblue83
Dec 30, 2008, 06:58 AM
Yesterday I got my Macbook Air Rev. B 1.6Ghz 120GB HDD.

I checked my LCD screen and I got the same modell as shokunin, the:

P .00 6
B133EW03 V0
Color LCD

But I don't have any lines and neither flickering. Usually I'm very sensitive to things like that but I can't see absolutely nothing wrong about my screen. I guess I was lucky. :-)

tobiasvdp
Dec 30, 2008, 04:31 PM
no lines and no flickering here either, quite a gorgeous screen

1,6 BTO SSD,
Factory: W8 (Shanghai China)
Production week: 50 (December)
Production number: 2 (within this week)

ioreg gives me:
P .00 6
B133EW03 V0
Color LCD

Display: 9c9a
Manufactured by: 00000610
Production date: C2486D00

justit
Dec 30, 2008, 07:22 PM
no lines and no flickering here either, quite a gorgeous screen

1,6 BTO SSD,


Interesting, build to order

LeonX
Dec 31, 2008, 06:02 AM
So after all that panel versions - with or without lines - I cannot see any pattern. And as long as there is no pattern it doesnt make sense to place a second order. I think I will give up for now althouogh I would love to see a flawless unit in person. All five I have seen so far were affected (and it was easy to figure this as they are still surround by rev.As with gorgeous screens here in Germany)...

mhnajjar
Jan 3, 2009, 05:09 PM
Any news yet?

I see Ironic is leading his group in the "no lines thread" :D


Any new owners with lines? :confused:

Tommigun
Jan 4, 2009, 02:17 AM
Slightly off topic probably, but I returned my MBA due to the lines and flickering. A REAL shame because I was so looking forward to using it during the holidays on the run.

The lines were so bad that they were very visible even when booting up the darned thing, and my eyes got really strained by the screen in a matter of half an hour or so. I am going to hold off on purchasing another one until this issue is resolved.

tbone21
Jan 4, 2009, 01:15 PM
Just got my 1.8 GHz SSD rev.2 here, week 49. At first boot I thought I saw lines, but I think my mind is playing tricks on me since I've read so many of these forum postings about the line issue. Talk about the power of suggestion! :D

After using it for a few days I don't see any lines, however on the "test pattern" there is a SLIGHT bit of flickering. In normal use I don't see it and my eyes aren't hurting. Overall I am a happy camper.

justit
Jan 4, 2009, 01:21 PM
In normal use I don't see it and my eyes aren't hurting. Overall I am a happy camper.

Great. Just curious if the display MBA at the store did/didn't have lines?

tbone21
Jan 4, 2009, 03:59 PM
Sorry I should've have mentioned this before - I didn't get it through the store, it was via my job (we have a contract with CDW).

mhnajjar
Jan 5, 2009, 12:19 AM
I talked to a store manager ealier today and showed him the lines on the MBA revB on the store's display and he said "I do not see anything. The screen looks perfect to me and I am sure if there was anything wrong with it Apple would have acknowledged it." I was :eek::eek::eek: and told him "Apple did not do any recall on the faulty nVidia GPUs in the MBP and did not say anything regarding the unusable MBA revA except locking its cpu frequency and now you are seeing no lines!" :confused:

Now, I am 200% sure that the lines are on EVERY MBA and all the people who are saying that they do not have them, simply DO NOT SEE THEM! I have even seen the lines on revAs that are available on store displays wether Apple or BestBuy.

I decided to forget about the MBA since it is just a faulty machine made by a greedy company. My iMac might be the only Apple machine that I am proud of for now.

tubbymac
Jan 5, 2009, 12:32 AM
I talked to a store manager ealier today and showed him the lines on the MBA revB on the store's display and he said "I do not see anything. The screen looks perfect to me and I am sure if there was anything wrong with it Apple would have acknowledged it."

I should carry around an Optometrist's business card to hand out for situations like that. Maybe some Lenscrafter's 10% discount coupons too. Hand him the card and the coupon, pat him on the back, get a good chuckle and then get thrown out of the store.

mhnajjar
Jan 5, 2009, 01:51 AM
I like your idea tubbymac. This will be a good payback for their act of stupidity :D

dead_smed
Jan 5, 2009, 01:51 AM
I have a week 45 1.8 SSD,

ioreg gives me:
P .00 6
B133EW03 V0
Color LCD

I believe I have lines and would describe them as a paper grain. Very faint lines from left to right but you have to have your eyes at the right distance and angle from the screen to them (its almost like some kind of polarisation). The 2 1.8 units in the store I bought it from I think also have this problem but didn't notice it before purchase.

From what I've read and what I've seen I do think that most if not all machines have these lines. I'm willing to put up with it but I do feel for the price of the machine this should be put right.

I don't believe this is a software problem I think its a hardware problem to do with the screen / coating on the screen. I think the last OS X update changed the colour profile for the screen to try and hide it but I think this is all that apple is will do.

mhnajjar
Jan 5, 2009, 01:55 AM
Apple should have stopped their MBA production untill they solve this issue. Unfortunately, they decided to go on and sell us all these crappy machines and opt for a silent fix (new production line) when the time is right for them.

justit
Jan 5, 2009, 09:12 AM
Seems under the bright :apple: store lights, many here are having problems demonstrating the lines. Here's a quick way to make the lines more pronounced:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=6755006&postcount=93

shokunin
Jan 5, 2009, 10:10 PM
Alright, something a little hilarious:

The Macbook Wheel has MBA Lines

Macbook Wheel at The Onion (http://www.theonion.com/content/video/apple_introduces_revolutionary)

I know it's not exactly the same but at 2:02 into it, I see MBA lines, lines!

ichigo11
Jan 5, 2009, 10:15 PM
Now, I am 200% sure that the lines are on EVERY MBA and all the people who are saying that they do not have them, simply DO NOT SEE THEM! I have even seen the lines on revAs that are available on store displays wether Apple or BestBuy.



I saw 2 perfect screen MBA 1.6 HDD at two different Apple stores, but also saw a MBA 1.6 with lines at another Apple store. I was once a believer that all MBA have lines, however since I saw two perfect screens with my own eyes, I do believer people have perfect screens, well at least on the 1.6 Ghz units.
I do still believer over 80% of the 1.8 Ghz have faulty screens.

I took my MBA to an Apple store first the guy said he couldn't see the lines then later said he did see it but don't think it's that big of problem. I complained and said I paid $2500 for the MBA why would some owners have the perfect screen and I have to settle for the lines.

He said he could have it sent it out to replace the screen and label the issue as uneven brightness, but they will still use the same screen. Since I'm going out of town and unsure the problem will be solved because they won't even recognize the problem, I declined his offer.

So unless Apple acknowledge the problem I don't think us "line" owners will ever get our perfect screens.

tubbymac
Jan 5, 2009, 10:30 PM
I know it's not exactly the same but at 2:02 into it, I see MBA lines, lines!

Wow good catch, hah! The lines finally caught on film :) It's visible from about 2:02 to 2:04 there.

Some commentary though: The lines in that video get stretched into very thick bands and look like they are flickering/moving. That does not happen when you see them with your own eyes. In reality the lines are thinner and don't move/flicker like that unless your viewing angle or distance changes. They appear thicker and appear to move in the video due to the difference between the frame rate of the video camera and the frame rate of the MBA display. So the video is a bit misleading in how it looks but the general idea is there.

justit
Jan 5, 2009, 10:37 PM
He said he could have it sent it out to replace the screen and label the issue as uneven brightness, but they will still use the same screen.

I was quoted 2 days to get a new screen shipped to the store, another 2 days or sooner to have it replaced. It seems the issue will be around until they can offload the inventory. Someone here in a thread actually bought 2 machines, one good one bad and had them replace the screen on the bad one since they had a good one to compare to.

That70sGAdawg
Jan 5, 2009, 11:23 PM
This thread needs to be closed. There WAS apparently an issue for many( at least that post here). But, now we have verified 1.6 HDD models (mine included) with perfect screens. From 1 inch, 5 inches, or 10 it's FINE. So , If you want a Macbook Air, buy it, and return it if you happen to get an unacceptable screen until you get one that's acceptable, or don't buy one! But great screens do exist!!!
I had a rev.1 Air, sold it, bought a MacBook Alum (could NOT live with he viewing angles and black level of that model - tried 2), then decided to try a rev 2 Air and I guess lucked out. But it's very simple minded to think that all of them are bad, and everyone needs glasses.