performance and pricing between macs and pcs

modifier · Feb 23, 2004

i have a question about pricing points and features between macs and pc's as i'm searching for a notebook.

macs are great and maybe some day they will rule the world. of course, by then there would be revolts against the apple monopoly in favor of Lin-a-Win-a-Tosh the new counter culture operating system. but anyway, every high-end mac is fast, powerful and beautiful, and most computer enthusiasts would love to have one regardless of their operating system affinities.

that being said, they are expensive. for most people, just too damn expensive. the majority of the people i know who own macs are either upper-middle or upper-class, or managed to score a mac on their company tab. whenever i consider the demographics of college kids, for example, the people with high-end macs in their dorm rooms tend to be the same kids who brought a car with them to college, and have multitudes of other neato, techspensive things . it makes me somewhat resentful, of course, because most of those kids, with their powerbooks and 20inch, RAM'ed out imacs and G5s with studio displays, Adobe software suites, etc, have incredibly powerful set-ups, and use them mostly for games, movies, and trying to play rock-star with Garage Band.

the response to my comments above is commonly: "well, those systems you mentioned are Apple's 'pro-line', if you are looking for consumer friendly pricing, then you should be looking at Apple's 'consumer line' of products."

when i look at Apple's consumer line of products, i see a bunch of nice machines- i myself am looking for a notebook, so my attention goes to the ibooks. indeed, they are cheaper than the powerbooks, and have nice features, but, and here's the ping of frustration: "PING!": when you compare these consumer macs to similarly priced pc's, the pc's *seemingly* way out perform them. for example, i work with graphics and layout and prefer to use Photoshop, Illustrator and InDesign. on a mac in my price range (a reasonable price range) these excellent software titles can run into trouble, especially when running them simultaneously. however, on a pc in my price range, i don't have these problems. my roommate has a Dell Inspiron, altogether $1600, and working with these same software titles is smooth, fast, and stable. his drive is larger, has more ram, faster cpu, beautiful large screen, fast graphics card- and on top of all that, he enjoys the other benefits of having a windows machine... cheaper ram, cheaper accessories... cheaper all around everything and great performance.

so, it comes down to this, why spend hard earned money for apple's medium-performance consumer machine, when for the same price you can have a high-performance professional machine that runs the the same software, only on a different operating system?

i mentioned the rich kids in school with high-end macs. a friend mentioned that many, many students also use the consumer line, in fact most mac-using students are ibook owners. why would this be? well, talk to those students about why they bought the mac, and you'll find out that appearance is a major factor ("it's so cute!") -apples on campus are almost a fashion item-, and these same kids fear that pc's are too complicated- which is nothing more than a prejudice against older versions of windows. recent windows releases are dummy proof, like the mac OS. ibook popularity may be due to marketing success more than anything else. apples have become cool while pc's have become "common" drab machines of common, drab people, even though both machines do the same things in approximately the same way.

i would love a mac, OSX rocks, the software is great, especially the bundled software, and it's a beautiful machine. it's just seems unjustifiable to buy one when i can get much better performance out of a windows machine for the same, or often less money. can someone please straighten me out on this? it's frustrating at this age when money is tight and every penny counts, but, being a responsible consumer shouldn't depend on income bracket. i'm looking for a well reasoned response, because, well, i *do* want a mac, i'm just trying to figure out why it would be intelligent, at this point, for me to buy one.

apple saw a huge profit margin this year, and they still have such a tiny piece of the market share- it makes sense that this would be the case if they really were, as many people have wondered, overcharging consumers for their machines. it makes me feel like i should just let the rich kids and their parents fund apple, which is what is happening, and be a common person with a commonly priced, commonly designed, high-performance notebook. besides, i could always paint it white

Counterfit · Feb 23, 2004

I might be one of those "rich" kids you see with a PB, but I paid for it myself. Kind of. (insert plug for US Savings Bonds here). I paid for about half of my birthday iPod, and all of my T68i. So I guess I don't quite fit your observations. I also can't have a car on campus period, and I'm not sure I would have brought one if I could have, Boston isn't exactly car friendly.

As for the prices, the RAM is exactly the same, you don't have to buy it from Apple, and if you do you're extremely lazy, because you can get it installed cheaper from other places if you just look.

Also, I spec'd out an iBook and an Inspiron as close as I could, and the iBook was about $250 more. Notable differences: The Dell has a 32MB Radeon 7500, the iBook has a faster 9200. The iBook has the Bluetooth and AirPort options built in. The Dell comes with a 128MB USB key drive, I couldn't deselect that. Both have a 60GB drive, 256MB RAM, a CD-RW/DVD drive, a 14.1" XGA display, and one battery. Neither are bundled with their respectively branded MP3 players. The Dell has a 2.8GHz P4, while the iBook has a 1GHz G4. The Dell comes with WordPerfect and Money, while the iBook comes with AppleWorks.

So I guess it comes down to: Build quality and software. I (fortunately) have never actually had to test the build quality of my PowerBook, (not like it would factor in anyway, it's not an iBook), you'll have to go by hearsay and your own tests (but don't drop them in the store

). And by software, I don't mean amount. Having 500 applications that do the same thing doesn't really mean much when you're looking for something. I mean quality. Is it stable? Is it fast enough, while not being so fast as to trip over itself? Does it fit your working style? How much time do you have to spend on maintenance if you want it to run well?
Ask yourself those questions, then come back and we can haggle.

TEG · Feb 23, 2004

There have been several studies, and I have tried it my self and the results are...

APPLE COMPUTERS ARE CHEAPER THAN SIMILARLY PERFORMING WINTEL COMPUTERS. Apple's only problem is it doesn't keep older computers in production... if each model was in production for a longer period of time with more overlap, you would notice the same trend. Apple actuall did this for years, pitting Quadra machines against 486sx Wintels, while the MacII was compeating against the 486dx machines and winning at being cheaper and faster. Today however, people aren't comparing performance numbers, they are comparing MHZ/GHZ numbers, which tell you nothing about the speed of a computer. Try for your self, max out a dell online and then max out a G5, the G5 will be cheaper, faster, and just plain better.

Also, I'm a middle class Mac owner, I didn't have a car until I was 19, and that had to be given to me by a very old friend. I resent your representation of Mac users of being upper-middle class ponches. It takes all kinds to create a community willing to live with snide remarks and less than stellar application support to buy Apple and only Apple. Remember Apple is the only computer company with such loyality, as Michael Dell once said (I'm paraphrasing) "If I could figure out how to create a community of people who would by my computers every time, I'd be a richer man. But alas when someone goes to buy a PC, they aren't looking at the name on the front, they are looking for the cheapest and fastest they can find. There is no brand loyality." We are brand loyal, and fight the good fight against anyone who would tarnish the good Apple/Macintosh/Steve Jobs name.

Out of many and all.... One.... Macintosh-ites.

TEG

modifier · Feb 23, 2004

sorry about the rich-kid/poor-kid stuff. that was unnecessary. i should be talking about these machines, not about people. the comment was just an observation, not any sort of study, and is probably flat-out wrong.

i don't want to haggle. i'm asking for input, and i ask that you look again.

in my post, i was making a price comparison between mac's consumer lines and pc's pro lines. "TEG" said something like: "compare a maxed out G5 with a maxed-out dell", well, no. that's not what i am trying to do, as i thought i was clear about that.

Counterfit- you mentioned that it seemed like the mac was *only* around $250 more, when i was assuming that they were the same price. lets assume that they are now the same price because apple suddenly gives all people who post on this forum a $250 rebate. and let's look at the spec comparison. i mentioned my roommate's inspiron because that's what's here for me to compare with.

it's an Inspiron 5100, configured direct from Dell (which you can do on their web page now) as such:

P4 2.8GHz
1024MB 266MHz RAM
60gig ultra ATA drive
64MB ATI mobility radeon 7500 (please notice, *not* 32MB)

for the same price as a maxed-out ibook:

G4 1GHz
640MB 266MHz RAM (maxed out)
60gig ultra ATA
32MB ATI mobility radeon 9200

the major things that jump out here at me are:
- CPUs: i'm unsure about the technical differences, and maybe a G4 1GHz really is as fast as a 2.8GHz P4, and it's other things that make the dell seem so much faster.

-RAM: not much needs to be said, i think. the difference between 1024MB and 640MB when running powerful graphics apps is substantial. i was wrong about the cost of ram- it *used* to be much more expensive than pc ram. i've been out of touch for a while. in any case...

i'm not sure about the difference between the graphics cards technically- one has twice the dedicated memory of the other in the form of 64MB-to-32MB, but the one with less memory is newer and faster. games look pretty good on the dell, and i haven't seen them on the mac, but that's what the x-box is for anyway. for graphics apps, as mentioned, all the tools i use *really* are much more comfortable to use on the dell.

i don't know man. TEG, you said "there have been several studies" and the "results are...", but, i'm telling you, and i understand the mac loyalty, all of my programmer friends have them and so on and so forth, but, BUT, this dell config is really snappy; everything is instantaneous and sharp. larger files open in a flash, applications jump up- i just don't get that feeling on these ibooks. i had a chance to play with a friend's Al PB and was drooling, of course. but, again, price range and performance is what i'm trying to ask about for my own good.

i'm wondering if the cost-to-performance figures in the consumer line of macintosh notebooks is keeping the "switcher" potential low, because for similar bucks, pc users can have pro-level machines.

wordmunger · Feb 23, 2004

I don't think the Inspiron 5100 is a pro-level machine. It's running a Pentium 4, not a Pentium M, which means its performance is going to be much slower when it's running on batteries. It also weighs 7.2 pounds compared to 5.9 for the 14-inch iBook, and it's almost two inches thick (1.75 versus 1.35 inches). It's just a huge machine--not a true laptop, but a "desktop replacement."

iBooks are much closer to being "pro level"--640 megs is more than enough to run pro apps on a Mac, even multitasking. I run Dreamweaver/Fireworks/Photoshop together all the time on my 400 Mhz TiBook with 640 megs.

This is not to say that the Dell doesn't have more "horsepower" than the iBook. Right now Windows laptops are ahead of Macs in that regard. However, the iBook is plenty fast to run pro apps, and the time you save fighting virii and other Windows insanity more than makes up for the difference in speed. Unless you're spending most of your time doing huge rendering jobs, you probably won't notice the difference. (And if that's what you're doing, you should be using a *real* pro machine like the dual 2.0 G5).

Counterfit · Feb 23, 2004

Did you really have to have 75% of that information twice in your post?

And how long do you really think that Dell will be snappy? I doubt it will run very well at all on Longhorn, whenever it ends up being released. The iBook will probably be good through 10.7 or so, provided they keep the X thing going that long.
As for the processors, that P4 will spank the G4, no question, but it's a desktop processor, so it's going to have a large impact on the battery life.

flyfish29 · Feb 23, 2004

Re: performance and pricing between macs and pcs

Originally posted by modifier
on a mac in my price range (a reasonable price range) these excellent software titles can run into trouble, especially when running them simultaneously. however, on a pc in my price range, i don't have these problems. my roommate has a Dell Inspiron, altogether $1600, and working with these same software titles is smooth, fast, and stable. his drive is larger, has more ram, faster cpu, beautiful large screen, fast graphics card- and on top of all that, he enjoys the other benefits of having a windows machine... cheaper ram, cheaper accessories... cheaper all around everything and great performance.

i would love a mac, OSX rocks, the software is great, especially the bundled software, and it's a beautiful machine. it's just seems unjustifiable to buy one when i can get much better performance out of a windows machine for the same, or often less money. can someone please straighten me out on this? it's frustrating at this age when money is tight and every penny counts, but, being a responsible consumer shouldn't depend on income bracket. i'm looking for a well reasoned response, because, well, i *do* want a mac, i'm just trying to figure out why it would be intelligent, at this point, for me to buy one.

I understand your comments and let me try to respond to a few of them logically:

As far as price goes...was the Dell Inspiron you referred to a desktop or laptop...sounds like a desktop when you say "$1600 alltogether" If that is the case you are comparing apple to oranges...if not, my mistake

As far as cost of extras goes...you can find super cheap memory, etc perph. for the mac, but the quality and reliability tends to go down a bit. Remember, that all the hardware in a mac is made to Apple specs (not always the best) but in my experience with PC and Mac comptuer much higher standards in a mac. I have never replaced a single component in any of the 5 macs I have owned, but my brothers and sisters have had three hard drives, four modems, three video cards, etc in that same time period. I guess my point is you get what you pay for at least to some extent.

You state you love the OSx bundled software that come with "comsumer macs" but as I recall much of those software titles don't come :"free" on a PC so I guess you need to decide if that software is worth it to you. (tony Hawk 4, apple works, iMovie, iPhoto, etc.

Are you a student or educator? Discounts as well as great financing can be had by those two groups of people. also major software disscounts to students on Word, Office, Adobe products, etc.

There is the Apple Developer thing as well that someone could tell you more about but give you major discounts.

Apple OSX software just works so well together since the make it all. Using your iTunes in your Imovies and iphoto slide shows, etc.

Hope this helps. there are so many more reasons to buy a mac, but I am sure others will inform you of these.

Good luck

MillieWales · Feb 23, 2004

Hi modifier

You may want to edit yourpost as you duplicated the text. I agree with what you are saying. I honestly don't know if a 1GHz G4 is the same or similar as a 2.4 P4, or a 3 P3.

I think the point is that in real world every day stuff as long as it is fast and does the job, it dosn't matter. If you are working in Photoshop all dy, yes, it will really matr, and you need a dual G5. For what most people do - email, web browsing, word processing etc - the lil iBook is great. I honestly don't think you can do a direct comparison. I have personally always thought you did pay a premium for a Mac, even if that premium is a slower processor. But I have Macs for what they do, and how they do it. No, I wouldn't have a slow computer, but my Mac's are not slow. There is faster stuff about, sure, better built, maybe, cooler, matter of opinion but I say no. As for value for money, because I wanted a Mac, yes very.

If I was on a real tight budget, and needed raw power and lots of it, I may have gone PC. But I would have lost out on quality and ease of use.

I do understand where you are coming from, but the only way of comparing is on speed tests. If you haven't used Macs, do so, and see how you get on with one. Once you have, if you like it you may wonder why you didn't do it ages ago. If you don't like it, you will go and stay the PC route, and be happy with your choice. But you cant choose just because one can open a file 2.6 seconds faster, or launch an more applications in 10 seconds than the other. Well, you can, but I would try real world tests if I was you.

It does sound like raw power is for you though. If you are in love with the Dell, go for it, but your comments on the PB make it sound like thats what you REALLY want. What is it about the PB that you are going to really regret? You would only notice it being slower if you actually sat next to a faster PC and 'raced it', which again, is just not real.

I hope that is a little more constructive for you, and good luck in your choices.

Marc

applebum · Feb 23, 2004

BUT, this dell config is really snappy; everything is instantaneous and sharp. larger files open in a flash, applications jump up- i just don't get that feeling on these ibooks.

You keep saying the Dell is faster and have made it clear you are using your roomates. What Mac are you using for these comparisons? Are you using a friends, or a Mac lab at your school? What are the specs on the Mac that you are opening these programs on? Tell us the specs on the Mac and the Dell that you are actually using - not just the ones you are thinking of buyin.

Westside guy · Feb 23, 2004

When I had a Dell Inspiron (older model - P3 600) I ended up putting Red Hat Linux on it because Windows just drove me nuts. Not only from the non-ease-of-use point of view; but especially because of the "here's yet another security hole that you're vulnerable to by default because Microsoft built the kitchen sink into the kernel in order to leverage its desktop monopoly into other areas" experiences. Windows has improved significantly in terms of stability, but it still suffers from the basic issues that drove me nuts.

Having owned both platforms, here are my thoughts (whether you want them or not).

- Dell puts desktop processors into its low-end laptops. Apple won't do this. If you buy the Dell and want to hold it anywhere on your person, make sure you get one with a mobile processor!

- Don't underestimate the value of a well thought out operating system. Since you're used to Windows, OS X might seem odd; but you quickly adjust. OS X is pretty; but its real value is in its intuitive design.

- If you're really a power user, having the Unix underbelly available is a godsend.

- How well multiple programs run simultaneously has more to do with RAM than anything else. I've got 512MB in my Powerbook and I switch easily between Dreamweaver, Photoshop, Firefox (Mozilla browser), etc.

applebum · Feb 23, 2004

BUT, this dell config is really snappy; everything is instantaneous and sharp. larger files open in a flash, applications jump up- i just don't get that feeling on these ibooks.

You keep saying the Dell is faster and have made it clear you are using your roomates. What Mac are you using for these comparisons? Are you using a friends, or a Mac lab at your school? What are the specs on the Mac that you are opening these programs on? Tell us the specs on the Mac and the Dell that you are actually using - not just the ones you are thinking of buyin.

Counterfit · Feb 23, 2004

Re: Re: performance and pricing between macs and pcs

Originally posted by flyfish29
Are you a student or educator? Discounts as well as great financing can be had by those two groups of people. also major software disscounts to students on Word, Office, Adobe products, etc.

DUH! How could I forget to mention that. The Dell's price was with the education discount, but the iBook was retail.

how silly of me....

benpatient · Feb 23, 2004

dude's got a lot of good points, and he's being more honest about the "state of things" than most of you are willing to be.

unless you can afford it (in more ways than one), then the coolness of Apple's mobile line is just not enough to justify their cost and general stagnation where speed and features are concerned.

I've spent an EXTENSIVE amount of time in OS 9, Win98, OS X and WinXP, not to mention all the "old" OSes back in the day.

I prefer using X or 9 in things like Photoshop or Quark or InDesign, Illustrator, etc, but I have them on an XP machine, and often times i wonder why it seems so much faster than my DUAL G5 doing some of the same things.

I'm used to Windows from long exposure, and it sounds like dude is, too. A coworker of mine has a new iBook, and it's not fast. for that much money, a PC laptop IS fast.

An iBook is great for MS Word or email or web browsing. I honestly, and i don't mean to offend any iBook "pro" users out there, don't think it's up to the task this guy is asking of it.

In OS X, 640 MB of RAM will go away almost instantly. I regularly fill up my 2.5GB and I use the same programs that he uses...I made to with a G3 with 768MB for over a year, yes, but it was painfully slow, and when i got the WinXP machine with 1 GB I almost never used the G3 again. On modern OSes, a ton of RAM makes the system more responsive. You can't deny that.

Dell's build quality is actually quite good. They have gotten where they are by underpricing AND building a good machine. They sometimes have problems, yes, but anyone whose had to replace the hard drive in a 1 year and 1 month old iMac THREE times can attest to the fact that apple isn't perfect, either.

(i friggin hate iMacs now).

Anyway, you guys are too hard on him, i think. He's got legitimate concerns and pretending like apple's laptops are the be-all with everything that is currently on the market is obtuse at best.

portent · Feb 23, 2004

I'm one of those guys on campus (public school, on scholarship) with an Apple laptop,* and I'm from a solidly middle-middle-class family. I don't have a car, and my dad drives a five-year-old Saturn. He also has a Mac of similar vintage, which is in better shape than the car. That's one reason right there: Macs tend to last longer, either by design or by stubbornness on the part of their owners.

As far as the same software/different OS issue goes, of the top twelve or so programs I use regularly, only two (iTunes and Eudora) are available on Windows. For some of the stuff I do, I'd need to run Cygwin or reboot into Linux...not an ideal solution. This really depends on what you do with your laptop.

I don't doubt for a second that you can get a Windows computer that will be faster than a Mac at the same price. If you make your money (realisically or hypothetically) based on how quickly you can get compute-intensive jobs done, a PC will certainly yield better results. But there are some other things to consider: lack of viruses, hacker resistance, and Mac hardware is generally more reliable (Says PC Magazine, no less.) When you consider the cost of an IBM ThinkPad (comparable hardware quality) with a good third-party firewall and antivirus software, the cost difference is a little less dramatic.

*No, I personally didn't pay for it, but I wouldn't have gone to college without one, either, even if I'd had to pony up.

modifier · Feb 23, 2004

thanks for the input guys, good stuff, and very helpful.

sorry for the duplicated text, as i was posting i got a 'server busy' error and must have unknowingly pasted twice.

couple answers as per questions asked:

size isn't an issue for me. in fact, i would prefer a desktop, but i travel overseas a couple times a year for work, usually for months at a time, and don't have the resources for a separate travel computer. besides, there's something cozy about being able to take your working (and playing) environment with you. it's like and bringing the blanket from your bed along instead of a sleeping bag when you're camping. anyway, it isn't something i'll be commuting with daily, just a few jumps a year. as long as it fits in a bag, good-to-go.

someone asked about what machines i was using for comparison, and i realized i never mentioned the ibook G4 1GHz, 384MB we've been comparing the dell 5100 (another notebook, btw) with. i agree though that just running them side by side, racing them like cars, probably isn't the best way of deciding which one is better for the money.

battery life isn't a big issue, but lifetime of the product certainly is. Counterfit asked about how long it will be considered fast- i haven't the vaguest idea. i don't imagine that after acquiring all the software i need i'd be very interested in buying a whole new operating system, like Longhorn, anyway. but would a new G4 ibook really be good through an eventual 10.7? four years away? hopefully by then i'll have my dream machine anyway.

good stuff marccarter, i appreciate your comments and have found them useful. i agree that "as long as it is fast and does the job, it doesn't matter." my problem is that although i work with computers for specific tasks, i don't have the expertise or wisdom about hardware to make confident decisions. all the mac owners i know say go mac, all the pc owners i know say go with pc's- and of course, salesmen always try to get you to spend your every dollar, and since macs tend to be more expensive, well, i get defensive about shelling out. you asked what it is about the PB i'd regret. at this time, i feel it would be kind of irresponsible to spend so much on a notebook. maybe a few years down the road when i get a little cush in the wallet.

Westside guy, your points about the OS were way overlooked by me when i first started to plan this purchase. i know that windows is now much more stable than it was, but, i almost get the idea from other mac users that the Adobe software i use has been designed with the mac in mind. that being said, i should probably opt for the mac. however, what about at the ibook-level? the dell inspiron 5100, configured as mentioned, actually runs these aps *much* faster then the G4 1GHz, 384MB- again, this isn't from a quantitative test, this is from me using both for the sole purpose of comparing and choosing which one would make my work easier for a reasonable price. maybe it's mostly a matter of RAM...? could the gig of RAM in this dell be what's causing the snappiness and generally huge speed difference here?

trebblekicked · Feb 23, 2004

Originally posted by modifier
could the gig of RAM in this dell be what's causing the snappiness and generally huge speed difference here?

i'd say so.

Steven1621 · Feb 23, 2004

i don't think buying a mac is really about buying computing power (even though they are still powerful computers). you truly are buying a better computing expirence. os x is just better than windows. i have used both, and i know. the ilife apps are some of the most useful around. the mac expirence just makes more sense.

blackfox · Feb 23, 2004

MAC vs PC...

modifier-Not that it will make that much difference to the discussion, but it has been discussed(in these forums) about the possibility of raising the RAM limit in an iBook w/ the advent of larger chips...not cheap(if, indeed, even recommended), but something to consider...there is also the monitor-spanning hack, representative of a creative mac user base...so I have 2 considerations for you...If you are going to be using your laptop primarily at home, w/access to power, perhaps the battery life will not matter, and you may want the Dell...if you will truly be mobile with your laptop, then I like the Apple line-up(you can buy extended-life batteries also)...also the on-line community is something to consider also(this forum being a representative)...if you run into hardware/software problems, want to maximize your performance or just increase your knowledge base...mac sites like this can be a lifesaver...and a real resource. There are dedicated forums for Graphic Design etc(platform independent) which are very good also, but this on-line support should not be overlooked....lastly, do you own those programs you mention? If you do, then go w/ that platform...if not, try and consider which platform you would prefer over the LONG run, as the $$ outlay you will spend, you will only want to do it once...take care

Westside guy · Feb 23, 2004

Originally posted by modifier
... the dell inspiron 5100, configured as mentioned, actually runs these aps *much* faster then the G4 1GHz, 384MB- again, this isn't from a quantitative test, this is from me using both for the sole purpose of comparing and choosing which one would make my work easier for a reasonable price. maybe it's mostly a matter of RAM...? could the gig of RAM in this dell be what's causing the snappiness and generally huge speed difference here?

I'd agree with trebblekicked here; RAM is the difference. Actually having worked with WinXP and OS X both, I think it's necessary to point out that OS X is a memory pig.

Runs great... as long as you've got the memory. 512MB works great; I've seen that w/ 256MB it can be pretty sucky if you want more than one app open (and who doesn't?). WinXP likes more, but it'll run decently with 256MB.

Inspector Lee · Feb 23, 2004

Also, I spec'd out an iBook and an Inspiron as close as I could, and the iBook was about $250 more.

Click to expand...

Factor in 3 years of Virus Scan and the $250 suddenly becomes $150. This is something most PC buyers fail to consider. It is a hidden cost.

Counterfit · Feb 23, 2004

I think something was included, but I'm too damn lazy (and hungry) to go check it out again.

trebblekicked · Feb 23, 2004

i'd like to add that i run a small business doing video (graphics stuff for supplementary income, but the market is kind of poop right now), and the two machines i personally use are:

quicksilver G4867, 512MB RAM
tibook G4 1Ghz, 1GB RAM

i use photoshop, illustrator, after effects, FCP, DVDSP, and ProTools all the time. For what it's worth, i've never missed a deadline

, and i don't feel the need for a G5 yet. just a "real world" example of how "underpowered" machines can still get the job done, and fairly well at that. i wouldn't trade OSX or Final Cut Pro for a few shaved minutes on a render. just my $0.02

flyfish29 · Feb 23, 2004

Originally posted by modifier
at this time, i feel it would be kind of irresponsible to spend so much on a notebook. maybe a few years down the road when i get a little cush in the wallet.

something else to think about is the resale value of Powerbooks, or macs in general. I don't have any source to cite or anything (maybe someone else can) but from what I have heard reasale is better with the mac. How much I think it depends on the system, when you sell it and where. It has been proven that high brand loyaltybrands (such as Apple, Jeep, etc.) have a much better aftermarket value. All of the macs I have sold aftermarket have given me quite a bit of cash to put towards my next one.

Just something else to think about.

Support for the mac is also something to think about. I think the non-traditional support forums like these is some of the best around. I have had dozens of support questions answered in this particular forum within 5 minutes most times which tells you the power and size of this forum. I don't know about PC fourms and online informal support thought? I imagine there is the same for PC???

fatzmack · Feb 23, 2004

there is and has always been some animosity, fueled with hearsay from both mac and wintel owners.

i've been a pc user for nearly a decade, a mac user [recently] for roughly three years and a half; i love both platforms. i say from personal experience, not hearsay [which is commonly what fuels flame wars over which platform is better] that there is a significant amount of stability found in macs than there are in wintel products. i'm a third year graphic design major, and having worked with both platforms, i have found a significant amount of time lost when working with wintel than working with a mac. much simply has to do with the fact that macs [for the sake of argument, i refer to the powermac line] handle multitasking very well. i've run photoshop, dreamweaver, flash, illustrator, and painter all at the same time [commonly the case in my field of work/study] on both wintel and macs, while jammin' on either winamp or itunes, and believe me... you'll want to use a mac.

let's put aside any differences we have about the operating systems, because i have come to learn that much of computer crashes and buggy related matters, are simply the result of the owners not maintaining their computers properly. i've had plenty of experience in the tech support department, and i've found the majority of problems to come from the incompetence of the computer's user(s)... windows me however is an entire different can o' worms.

again, i'm a college student. and i own a mac. but don't let that lead you to believe i'm someone with cash to spend. i live off of loans and meager scholarships, work roughly 30 hours a week, and study 18 credits. having a mac saves me a **** load of time that i can't afford, b/c i don't have to deal with the hassles of updates from microsoft that do nothing but plague the computer and disrupt worktime i need on the computer. afterall, i'm a graphic design major. i don't have the time to deal with internal issues. i wanna be able to turn on my computer and illustrate right off ya know?

so apple products are considered 'posh'. i call it animosity and misunderstanding.i live downtown in chicago and i take the subway to class everyday- and there isn't a day when i don't see at least several ipods, or at least one portable mac in use. *shrugs* so what. the general income for individuals who live/work downtown can afford apple products. but more importantly, the products are generally well received by the tech industry. you read the pc magazine, or the mac world magazine. they say it's good. so why not buy it, especially if you can afford it?

i will admit that my biggest gripe with apple products are the price tags. but understand what part of the demographics i fall into. oldest of three kids (20-9-6), bureaucrat father, retail mother, raised in the suburbs - middle class. dual 1.8 ghz for roughly 2500? sure i'm gonna cringe a little. but considering what outstanding products apple has to offer, why the hell not? especially considering the line of work/study i do.

just my two cents.

Nigel2112 · Feb 23, 2004

The Experience

One of the issues in any comparisons is illustrated by comparing cars. You buy according to your need. You can of course get a faster car for less money no problem, but do you realy need 130mph?
The other issue is quality, both of hardware and software. In survey after survey (most recently Consumer Reports) Apple products beat out all other brands in quality, reliability, owner satisfaction and customer service.
So why do you think Mac owners are passionate? Because it is the better product. Not the fastest, cheapest, most popular - just better.
Lastly. For me personally, I had it with PCs after I read about the 10th lawsuit against Micros**t alleging anti-competitive business practices. I'm simply not interested in financing their lawyers any more.
Now if it were such an easy choice buying a car I'd have it made.

performance and pricing between macs and pcs

macrumors newbie

macrumors G3

macrumors 604

macrumors newbie

macrumors 603

macrumors G3

macrumors 68020

macrumors 6502

macrumors 6502

macrumors 603

macrumors 6502

macrumors G3

macrumors 68000

macrumors 6502a

macrumors newbie

macrumors 6502a

macrumors 6502a

macrumors 65816

macrumors 603

macrumors 6502a

macrumors G3

macrumors 6502a

macrumors 68020

macrumors newbie

macrumors newbie

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