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View Full Version : Finally a 2 button scrolling apple pro mouse!


markjones05
Feb 25, 2004, 05:14 PM
Has anyone seen this yet? It's great! Finally a mouse for the people who love the look and feel of the apple pro mice but hate the 1 button non scrollable aspect of it.

markjones05
Feb 25, 2004, 05:16 PM
http://www.macmice.com/themouse.html

Grimace
Feb 25, 2004, 05:17 PM
yep, there have been a few threads on that. A bluetooth variety is said to be coming in april.

Chip NoVaMac
Feb 25, 2004, 06:24 PM
Wish it were Bluetooth. Though I may still buy it.

Mr. Anderson
Feb 25, 2004, 07:01 PM
Pretty damn cool - but why doesn't Apple make one?

Still don't understand that - I have my old one button mouse in a drawer somewhere.... :(

D

Chip NoVaMac
Feb 25, 2004, 07:12 PM
Originally posted by Mr. Anderson
Pretty damn cool - but why doesn't Apple make one?

Still don't understand that - I have my old one button mouse in a drawer somewhere.... :(

D

I agree. I have the Wacom Graphire II tablet. It is not the best IMHO for the mouse. But I love the center scroll wheel that allows me to click in a new tab in Safari. i also like the ability to right click without having to use the keyboard and mouse.

What is taking Apple so long?

Macette
Feb 25, 2004, 10:22 PM
I've got one and I LOVE it to bits. It's changed my life. Hello, click-wheel Exposé.

Westside guy
Feb 26, 2004, 12:35 AM
I've got an MS Bluetooth mouse - but if this one comes out in BT, I'm gonna buy it. I'll give the MS mouse to my wife. :D

michaelrjohnson
Feb 29, 2004, 07:29 PM
why apple doesn't make one is a question i don't know we'll ever know the answer to. :sigh: someday... someday...

till then, i'll stick with my logitech MX300

dukemeiser
Mar 1, 2004, 09:58 AM
I actually just bought one, and it is great. I even did my own little review of it. You can read it here. (http://dukemeiser.spymac.net/) I actually started a thread on this over in the General Apple Discussion, but it probably would have been more logical to post it here. Oops. :rolleyes:

dukemeiser
Mar 1, 2004, 10:03 AM
why apple doesn't make one is a question i don't know we'll ever know the answer to. :sigh: someday... someday...


Simplicity. It can be confusing to a newbie if the mouse has 3 buttons. With one button, there is no question. And it is not like the engineers at Apple have been scratching there heads trying to make a multibutton mouse. They could have made one years ago. As long as Steve Jobs is running Apple you will never see mouse with more than one button.

timsq
Mar 1, 2004, 10:27 AM
We all agree that better mouse function leads to a better experience. If Apple made a killer 3 button mouse - they would piss off a lot of mouse manufacturers. I think Apple plays the 'keep it simple' card to a fault. The answer is obvious because Apple enjoys the ample support they receive from many producers of compatible hardware, therefore Apple can concentrate efforts on what they do best. I happen to believe in them so blindly that I am a stockholder. Rock!

- 3-button MacMouseLTD (bluetooth when available)

markjones05
Mar 1, 2004, 10:29 AM
Simplicity. It can be confusing to a newbie if the mouse has 3 buttons. With one button, there is no question. And it is not like the engineers at Apple have been scratching there heads trying to make a multibutton mouse. They could have made one years ago. As long as Steve Jobs is running Apple you will never see mouse with more than one button.

Thats lame. And i don't think it has anything to do with newbies. I dont think any newbie ever looks at a two button mouse and doesnt know what to do. 1 button and no scroll wheel is just less productive, end of story.

Santiago
Mar 1, 2004, 11:44 AM
Scroll wheels are ergonomically terrible for your fingers. Hat switches can perform the same function and do not result in RSI from continuously twitching one finger in a cramped motion.

dukemeiser
Mar 1, 2004, 12:41 PM
Thats lame. And i don't think it has anything to do with newbies. I dont think any newbie ever looks at a two button mouse and doesnt know what to do. 1 button and no scroll wheel is just less productive, end of story.

It may be lame to expert Mac users like us, but you surely know some people that barely know how to turn on a computer? My girlfriend's parents would have no idea what to do with another button on the mouse and would never use it. You seem to have forgotten what it is like to be completely new to computers. And newbies could be kindergardeners, not adults.

slowtreme
Mar 1, 2004, 02:00 PM
I took my apple pro mouse and put it on the PC that my kids use. My oldest boy is 4, and a standard 2 button was just too difficult for him to use. He was always clicking both buttons causeing the context menus to popup and get selected all in one shot.

OTOH, he uses the iBook like a Pro. He'll sit on the couch browsing PlayhouseDisney.com for an hour. ONE BUTTON.

So yeah Apple has it right. Ease of use = 1 button mouse and a GUI that supports it. If you want two buttons get a different mouse.

And on the subject of this mouse, I've seen it in the CompUSA store, and it doesn't really feel at all like the pro mouse. With the wheel popping out and the cut in the plastic it's not nearly as elegant either, but they did the best they could I guess.

markjones05
Mar 1, 2004, 04:42 PM
It may be lame to expert Mac users like us, but you surely know some people that barely know how to turn on a computer? My girlfriend's parents would have no idea what to do with another button on the mouse and would never use it. You seem to have forgotten what it is like to be completely new to computers. And newbies could be kindergardeners, not adults.

No it's not that i have forgotten what it was like to to be new to computers, it's the fact that i learned on a two button mouse. How hard is the concept of one button does this, and one button does that? Surely even beginners can figure that out. The 2 button mouse is by far the easiest tool to learn about on a computer. I never had a computer when i was 4 as in slowtremes situation. I was about 7 when we got our first computer and about 10 when we got our first mouse and i cant remember ever being perplexed by the concept of two buttons.

Hemingray
Mar 1, 2004, 07:27 PM
Scroll wheels are ergonomically terrible for your fingers. Hat switches can perform the same function and do not result in RSI from continuously twitching one finger in a cramped motion.

What's a hat switch?

Krizoitz
Mar 1, 2004, 09:15 PM
Thats lame. And i don't think it has anything to do with newbies. I dont think any newbie ever looks at a two button mouse and doesnt know what to do. 1 button and no scroll wheel is just less productive, end of story.

I love how people on these forums think that the only people who use computers are power users.

If I had a penny for every complaint I've heard about the mouse, the iMac, how they should be this or should be that, without realizing that Apple makes a variety of products and some aren't aimed at those of us who know what we are doing and push our computers to the limits.

When it comes to the mouse, there are plenty of great third party mice and trackballs, in such a variety of styles and configurations. Its not like a keyboard where layout is set. A mouse can have any number of buttons and wheels, wireless or wired, trackball or optical. The choices are almost limitless. But rather than waste time, resources, and money on making one and including it with all macs, they instead include a mouse that lets you do everything you need to and if you want to, buy a new mouse that does exactly what you want it too.

The Mac comes with a mouse designed for everyone to be able to use, it was in fact intended that a person could simply watch someone else use a computer with minimal effort. Yes its possible to learn a computer using a multi button mouse. Its also possible to learn to drive a stick shift car. And if you know what you are doing it can be worth it, but for most people the mouse or the automatic transmission are perfectly fine for their needs.

You can get the mouse you want, so stop trying to force everyone else to live up to your higher requirements, buy the better mouse and let Apple focus their resources on making better computers. No need to reinvent the mouse.

whocares
Mar 1, 2004, 10:29 PM
A good solution would be for Apple to offer both a single mouse and 2 button mouse + scroll wheel. You could obviously choose which mouse you get when you order...

I use a 2 button mouse with scroll wheel, but very rarely use the right button (I usually use the keyboard shortcuts). Though the scroll wheel is good, the keuboard arrows are just as good for stuff like browsing the web. But I like to have the choice.

markjones05
Mar 1, 2004, 10:55 PM
I love how people on these forums think that the only people who use computers are power users.

If I had a penny for every complaint I've heard about the mouse, the iMac, how they should be this or should be that, without realizing that Apple makes a variety of products and some aren't aimed at those of us who know what we are doing and push our computers to the limits.

When it comes to the mouse, there are plenty of great third party mice and trackballs, in such a variety of styles and configurations. Its not like a keyboard where layout is set. A mouse can have any number of buttons and wheels, wireless or wired, trackball or optical. The choices are almost limitless. But rather than waste time, resources, and money on making one and including it with all macs, they instead include a mouse that lets you do everything you need to and if you want to, buy a new mouse that does exactly what you want it too.

The Mac comes with a mouse designed for everyone to be able to use, it was in fact intended that a person could simply watch someone else use a computer with minimal effort. Yes its possible to learn a computer using a multi button mouse. Its also possible to learn to drive a stick shift car. And if you know what you are doing it can be worth it, but for most people the mouse or the automatic transmission are perfectly fine for their needs.

You can get the mouse you want, so stop trying to force everyone else to live up to your higher requirements, buy the better mouse and let Apple focus their resources on making better computers. No need to reinvent the mouse.

LOL! First of all I hardly think that using 2 buttons instead of one considers anybody a "power user". Second, your comparison between learning to drive stick and learning to use a second button on a mouse is slightly rediculous. Third of all I'm not trying to force anyone to do anything, so chill the **** out. And lastly I still don't know why Apple doesnt offer a 2 button mouse. After all they make some of the most professional power computers in the world, so why wouldnt they cater to that fact just as much as they cater to the beginner machines? I really like the look and feel of the single button mouse but it slows me down. Sure, I can get another mouse and I have, the point is; I would like it if Apple made another mouse and I think alot of others agree with me. Thats my opinion and if you don't like it you can beat it.

markjones05
Mar 1, 2004, 10:56 PM
A good solution would be for Apple to offer both a single mouse and 2 button mouse + scroll wheel. You could obviously choose which mouse you get when you order...

Exactly.

dukemeiser
Mar 2, 2004, 11:14 AM
A good solution would be for Apple to offer both a single mouse and 2 button mouse + scroll wheel. You could obviously choose which mouse you get when you order...


But....that could put a lot of small companies out of business. I doubt if MacMice would sell The Mouse anymore if Apple did that. If Apple offered a two button/scroll wheeled mouse, how many Mac users would buy third party? I certainly wouldn't have.

Krizoitz
Mar 2, 2004, 12:43 PM
LOL! First of all I hardly think that using 2 buttons instead of one considers anybody a "power user". Second, your comparison between learning to drive stick and learning to use a second button on a mouse is slightly rediculous. Third of all I'm not trying to force anyone to do anything, so chill the **** out. And lastly I still don't know why Apple doesnt offer a 2 button mouse. After all they make some of the most professional power computers in the world, so why wouldnt they cater to that fact just as much as they cater to the beginner machines? I really like the look and feel of the single button mouse but it slows me down. Sure, I can get another mouse and I have, the point is; I would like it if Apple made another mouse and I think alot of others agree with me. Thats my opinion and if you don't like it you can beat it.

Apple doesn't offer a two button mouse because they have no need to. There are plenty out there who offer them to people who want one, and as I have said with a better variety of choices. Its the same reason Apple no longer sells printers, they have no need to when others can do it better. As for the pro-user argument you just used, those are exactly the people who do go out and buy their own mice.

markjones05
Mar 2, 2004, 01:24 PM
Apple doesn't offer a two button mouse because they have no need to. There are plenty out there who offer them to people who want one, and as I have said with a better variety of choices. Its the same reason Apple no longer sells printers, they have no need to when others can do it better. As for the pro-user argument you just used, those are exactly the people who do go out and buy their own mice.

I don't understand your as well as dukemeisers logic. Why would Apple want you to go somewhere ele? Dukemeiser do you work fo rone of the third party mice selling companies? If not, why do you care? Krizoitz, why do you think that other companies can make a better mouse than Apple? What do you mean they have no need to? Don't you think people would buy them? I know I would and so would Dukemeiser. I'm sure if they made them alot of people would buy them. How do you come to the conclusion that they don't need to. I don't think it is essential for them to make one but i would sure like it if they did.

redAPPLE
Mar 2, 2004, 01:26 PM
why apple doesn't make one is a question i don't know we'll ever know the answer to. :sigh: someday... someday...

till then, i'll stick with my logitech MX300

Apple could use the slogan "Hell Froze Over (Again)!" :D

the reason why Apple still uses the one button mouse is because SJ himself thought about the one-button mouse years ago...

markjones05
Mar 2, 2004, 01:33 PM
Apple could use the slogan "Hell Froze Over (Again)!" :D

the reason why Apple still uses the one button mouse is because SJ himself thought about the one-button mouse years ago...


change is good.

whocares
Mar 2, 2004, 02:47 PM
I'm with markjones05 on this one.

Apple isn't a philantropic organisation. They're out there to make money, not friends. If they can squeeze say 10 extra bucks out of a pro user (who would prolly fork out upwards of $20 on a new mouse anyways) for a 2 button mouse, that's a little extra cash in the end. And it's not like Apple needs third party mouse-makers, as they need Adobe for software.

I honestly think they should start selling them, and making pro (and some not so pro) users happy. It would give switchers one more reason to switch: "hey, they have "real" mice now :eek: ".

Changing your mind is an intergral and important part of "thinking different". :rolleyes:

1macker1
Mar 2, 2004, 04:23 PM
There is nothing difficult about using a 2 button mouse. Sheesh, that's such a dumb ass excuse.

jenniff
Mar 2, 2004, 05:23 PM
the reason why Apple still uses the one button mouse is because SJ himself thought about the one-button mouse years ago...

Hmm. I wonder if Jobs uses a one button mouse.

A two-buttoned mouse is more geared toward pro-users than you [all, not directly "you"] obviously realize. I work with tons of computer illiterate people (not kids, but adults!) -- people who don't even realize what a double click is. People who I must remind to left click when I say just click. People who don't know what a contextual menu is, nevermind use them with any regularity.

Either way, a single button mouse definitely looks prettier than that ugly two-buttoned monster. Personally, I go for functionality over aesthetics. However, working at an Apple reseller, I've had customers insist (much to my surprise) on purchasing the Apple Pro Mouse because it matches the computer. Their only concern: aesthetics!

Perhaps an option would be to package a new two-button mouse with the prosumer computers (towers, powerbooks) and the single-button mouse with the consumer machines.

Krizoitz
Mar 2, 2004, 06:06 PM
There is nothing difficult about using a 2 button mouse. Sheesh, that's such a dumb ass excuse.

A one button mouse is still simpler, and for most computer users quite adequate. Quit assuming that your way of using a computer is the most prevalent and you may just understand why Apple doesn't just build high end machines for power users. They target the WHOLE RANGE. The simplest solution is to offer a one button mouse that does all the necessary functions. A multi button mouse is not necessary. It may be useful and nice to have but you don't NEED it. If you want it you buy one. There are plenty available in all sorts of styles. I gaurantee you Apple has looked at the market, looked at what they could produce and decided it wasn't worth investing the time and possibly alienating 3rd party developers. Yes Apple could probably make some money and they are a buisness, but they have to think long term, not just immediate results.

whocares
Mar 3, 2004, 01:51 PM
(...) I don't think it is essential for them to make one but i would sure like it if they did.

Ditto.
Choice is good and would make everybody happy.
Single button mouse as default (so not to confuse newbies) and multiple function mouse as a choice.

I use a Logitech mouse and its ok. If for the same price I could have gotten a Apple mouse that matches my comp, I'd be happier. This wouldn't necessaraly kill third parties either; Apple could design the mouse but subcontract its manufacturing...

markjones05
Mar 3, 2004, 04:48 PM
I gaurantee you Apple has looked at the market, looked at what they could produce and decided it wasn't worth investing the time and possibly alienating 3rd party developers. Yes Apple could probably make some money and they are a buisness, but they have to think long term, not just immediate results.

Oh really, do you work for Apple? Or are you just another zealot who bends over and waits for whatever Apple decides to give them.

neut
Mar 3, 2004, 05:10 PM
Thats lame. And i don't think it has anything to do with newbies. I dont think any newbie ever looks at a two button mouse and doesnt know what to do. 1 button and no scroll wheel is just less productive, end of story.

end of story? that's kinda funny. you know that it doesn't work don't you? you can't just say that. not everyone thinks the stories over. that's just weird. it's like having a conversation with someone then saying, "end of conversation." and then walking away... and that's just weird. only crazy people do that; only crazy people hum too. do you hum? ;)

peace.

markjones05
Mar 3, 2004, 05:32 PM
end of story? that's kinda funny. you know that it doesn't work don't you? you can't just say that. not everyone thinks the stories over. that's just weird. it's like having a conversation with someone then saying, "end of conversation." and then walking away... and that's just weird. only crazy people do that; only crazy people hum too. do you hum? ;)

peace.

...and the award for most irrelevant post goes to...

neut
Mar 3, 2004, 06:10 PM
...and the award for most irrelevant post goes to...

oh, i'm not prepared. i don't have a speech ready... i didn't even realize i was nominated. :D

****

after using an MX500 it's hard to do without all those damn buttons. i love the apple pro design, but i'm hooked to the programability of multi-button mice. i used the one button for years... but this damn MX has spoiled me.

maybe apple should co-design with Logitech a special MX apples series... thad be sweet.


peace.

Krizoitz
Mar 3, 2004, 06:14 PM
Oh really, do you work for Apple? Or are you just another zealot who bends over and waits for whatever Apple decides to give them.

No, but I do get sick and tired of people complaining just because Apple doesn't do everything they want. Sick of all the people who have absolutely NO knowledge of buisness and the computer inudstry yet claim that they know better than Steve Jobs and co. Constructive criticism is good, but this mouse issue is like beating a dead horses allready beaten carcass. But what I get sick of the most is people who only think people have thought things out and come to informed opinions if its the one they want them to. Just because I agree that Apple doesn't need to make a multi-button mouse doesn't mean I haven't thought the issue through. It just so happens that I think they are right. So get off your high horse and don't act like I'm somehow wrong just because I don't agree with you.

markjones05
Mar 3, 2004, 07:00 PM
No, but I do get sick and tired of people complaining just because Apple doesn't do everything they want. Sick of all the people who have absolutely NO knowledge of buisness and the computer inudstry yet claim that they know better than Steve Jobs and co. Constructive criticism is good, but this mouse issue is like beating a dead horses allready beaten carcass. But what I get sick of the most is people who only think people have thought things out and come to informed opinions if its the one they want them to. Just because I agree that Apple doesn't need to make a multi-button mouse doesn't mean I haven't thought the issue through. It just so happens that I think they are right. So get off your high horse and don't act like I'm somehow wrong just because I don't agree with you.

I am not on a high horse. And no, I dont know much about business, nor did I know you needed a degree in business to post on these forums without getting reemed. Your opinion is fine with me. Excuse me for posting another side to the story. Ill gladly erase all my posts now and just go with what you believe. Never again will I want something more from the computer company I spend thousands of dollars towards. I never claimed to know better than good ole stevey. You're right, I must be stupid to think that a pro mouse should come with a pro computer...God what was I thinking! If your sick of the thread, dont read it.

Krizoitz
Mar 3, 2004, 08:35 PM
I am not on a high horse. And no, I dont know much about business, nor did I know you needed a degree in business to post on these forums without getting reemed. Your opinion is fine with me. Excuse me for posting another side to the story. Ill gladly erase all my posts now and just go with what you believe. Never again will I want something more from the computer company I spend thousands of dollars towards. I never claimed to know better than good ole stevey. You're right, I must be stupid to think that a pro mouse should come with a pro computer...God what was I thinking! If your sick of the thread, dont read it.

I wasn't sick of the thread, I was sick of your response to my comments and what they implied. I am all about disagreeing with people on a civil level but you refused to do that. Rather than offering a well reasoned argument as to why a multi-button mouse might be better and why Apple should do it that countered my arguments against, you merely refered to me as "bending over" to "take what Apple gives me".

You want to disagree, fine, but do so without resorting to personal attacks next time.

markjones05
Mar 3, 2004, 09:07 PM
I wasn't sick of the thread, I was sick of your response to my comments and what they implied. I am all about disagreeing with people on a civil level but you refused to do that. Rather than offering a well reasoned argument as to why a multi-button mouse might be better and why Apple should do it that countered my arguments against, you merely refered to me as "bending over" to "take what Apple gives me".

You want to disagree, fine, but do so without resorting to personal attacks next time.

I do apoligize if I offended you with that remark. But I dont understand why you have such a serious problem with me wanting something more from apple instead of just taking what they give me. I can't stand mac zealots who will fight to the death defending Apple no matter how stupid it is.

jenniff
Mar 3, 2004, 11:20 PM
I can't stand mac zealots who will fight to the death defending Apple no matter how stupid it is.

That's just silly, to say that. At least they're passionate about something. I'll completely defend the one button mouse. For Apple to deny the one button mouse would be like taking away the Apple logo, or changing it by filling the bite or something.

An improvement, like providing a optional two button scrolling mouse, much like the single button bluetooth mouse is an option, would be more than accepted. It would maintain the tradition, the trademark of the single button, while moving ahead with the times --- much like how the multi color Apple logo was replaced with the solid color, moving ahead with the times.

markjones05
Mar 4, 2004, 11:27 AM
That's just silly, to say that. At least they're passionate about something. I'll completely defend the one button mouse. For Apple to deny the one button mouse would be like taking away the Apple logo, or changing it by filling the bite or something.

I never said to get rid of the one button mouse. I said there should be a pro mouse for the pro machines. What IS silly, is being passionate about about not wanting to change things for the better.

neut
Mar 4, 2004, 01:46 PM
someone should really kill this thread...

jenniff
Mar 4, 2004, 01:49 PM
I never said to get rid of the one button mouse. I said there should be a pro mouse for the pro machines. What IS silly, is being passionate about about not wanting to change things for the better.

See, it may be only "for the better" to you. To some people (not me), as hard as it may be for you to believe, a one button mouse is all that they can handle. Too, it's all they need to use. I can't imagine not right clicking, but there are people who don't even know what the right mouse button could ever possibly be used for.

I do agree with you, though, that there should be a pro two button mouse for pro machines, and the simple one button mouse for consumer machines.

markjones05
Mar 4, 2004, 03:08 PM
See, it may be only "for the better" to you. To some people (not me), as hard as it may be for you to believe, a one button mouse is all that they can handle. Too, it's all they need to use. I can't imagine not right clicking, but there are people who don't even know what the right mouse button could ever possibly be used for.

I do agree with you, though, that there should be a pro two button mouse for pro machines, and the simple one button mouse for consumer machines.

Exactly, so why do some people think that it is alright to only cater to n00bs? Only Apple makes a one button mouse. Wich means that every other PC user knows how to use a two button mouse no matter how new they are to computers. Why is this concept hard to understand for some of these posters?

jenniff
Mar 4, 2004, 03:20 PM
Exactly, so why do some people think that it is alright to only cater to n00bs? Only Apple makes a one button mouse. Wich means that every other PC user knows how to use a two button mouse no matter how new they are to computers. Why is this concept hard to understand for some of these posters?

Well, perhaps it's a variety of factors:

1. One button mouse more attractive than two. Them scroll wheels are ugly!
2. One button mouse weilds greater draw on simplicity than the two button mouse with PC. One (n00b) who may be torn between the two may see the one button, and other simplistic features, and be swayed toward Apple.
3. One button lets Apple be different. I think this is a silly reason though, and I tire of it.
4. People are ornery and stubborn and hate change. Heck, I hated when Apple changed the 3G iPod with the buttons running horizontally below the screen rather than around the wheel. I whined and moaned, and went and bought one.

This fourth reason I find most comical of all, since Apple is supposed to be the company to "Think Different"... you'd think this would work introspectively as well, rather than just a constant battle to be different from the PC market. I think Apple's made their point and should move on.

That one button wireless mouse killed me. Most people who will want a wireless mouse are going to want a scroll and second button. Rawr. Plus, the near-zero support for Mac with other Bluetooth mice positively kills. Apple should step up to the plate for this one.

1macker1
Mar 4, 2004, 04:22 PM
I think whatever mouse a person first starts off with, is the one he/she will be most comfortable with. BTW, that's one nice looking mouse.

Krizoitz
Mar 4, 2004, 05:02 PM
Exactly, so why do some people think that it is alright to only cater to n00bs? Only Apple makes a one button mouse. Wich means that every other PC user knows how to use a two button mouse no matter how new they are to computers. Why is this concept hard to understand for some of these posters?

Apple does it different because they have a different approach to computers. I know tons of PC users who never use the right click, they aren't even sure what it does, or when iit does pop up the contextual menu its not useful to them.

The reason Apple only puts out a one button mouse, is because they have no market reason to put out a multi-button one. The market right now is saturated with multi-button mice/trackballs of every shape and size. Apple probably feels it would be a waste of money and resources to make something that they don't need to. Plus it gives 3-rd parties a great opportunity.

jenniff
Mar 4, 2004, 05:20 PM
The reason Apple only puts out a one button mouse, is because they have no market reason to put out a multi-button one. The market right now is saturated with multi-button mice/trackballs of every shape and size. Apple probably feels it would be a waste of money and resources to make something that they don't need to. Plus it gives 3-rd parties a great opportunity.

I disagree that there is no market. Anyone who uses FC or Apple's other Pro apps (or anyone on this board for that matter) is going to appreciate the right click. There's a huge market out there. I was actually surprised that the PBs didn't come with two buttons by the touchpad. The Ctrl-Click drives me insane on those.

It wouldn't be a waste of money, especially with regard to Bluetooth mice. I haven't seen a single Bluetooth mouse advertise Mac compatibility (it may work on a Mac, but it doesn't advertise as such). Apple not stepping up and producing is leaving these customers in the lurch!

I had a customer just yesterday writhe in frustration (figuratively) because we didn't have any Mac Bluetooth two-button scrollwheel mice. He went home empty-handed, because he didn't want the Logitech MX900 that doesn't advertise Mac compatibility, nor did he want the Apple one-button.

takao
Mar 4, 2004, 07:57 PM
well coming from the pc world i can't imagine how the computer world would be without at least 2 buttons and a scrollwheel
what about an 'option' when you buy your mac so you can decide which mouse you want a classic one button mouse or a 'pro mouse' with 2 buttons/scrollwhell that would be perfect

for myself i am using my microsoft intellimouse explorer since 2001 i think ... huge (its like moving a truck around the table) but works perfectly, button 4+5 are 'forward and 'back' in the browser can't imagine surfing the web without that ..extremly comfortable and huge advantage for games :)

PS: just saw that my mouse is supported by macos x ... makes me happy to see i can use my microsoft mouse on my future mac ;-) (windows might be a bad operating system but the mice are really good)

blue&whiteman
Mar 26, 2004, 08:35 AM
Has anyone seen this yet? It's great! Finally a mouse for the people who love the look and feel of the apple pro mice but hate the 1 button non scrollable aspect of it.

that almost makes me want to switch from my logitech trackball with 4 buttons and scroll. almost...

jazzmfk
Mar 26, 2004, 09:14 AM
I hate the two button mouse we use on each PC at school. Using a mac for 15+ years makes the whole concept of "left or right clicking" completely foreign. I haven't been in an elementary school setting, but I would imagine that to someone who is still struggling with left and right, the one button mouse makes considerably more sense.

On my iBook/iMac, I use a combination of the arrow keys and a Griffin Powermate to scroll - I think it's less taxing than a scroll wheel on your hand. It's actually kinda fun to have my right index finger on the track pad and my left hand on the Griffin.

To each his own. Use what works for you and quit complaining!

wordmunger
Mar 26, 2004, 09:25 AM
Apple ships its computers with a one button mouse because they don't want lazy developers to start relying on two-button technology. One of the most irritating things about Windows is the fact that so much of its functionality relies on the second mouse button. The beauty of the Mac is its visual interface. There is no way to indicate visually that right-clicking on an icon does one thing and left-clicking does something else. So relying on two-button functionality makes software less intuitive.

This is not to say that two button *shortcuts* are not very valuable to advanced users, just that learning a new application is difficult if there are hidden features. Any feature enabled by right-clicking is inherently hidden, and so it is inherently unintuitive. If Apples shipped with two button mice, then much of their ease of use would quickly disappear.

Xacttech
Mar 26, 2004, 11:16 AM
http://www.kensington.com/html/3989.html

The best multi button Mac look mouse :) (in my opinion of course)

Uses apples technology for a scroll touch pad etc.
Not bluetooth but RF wireless. Rechargeable batteries.

Anyway my opinion on why apple doesn't have a two or three button mouse is because they don't want to admit they are WRONG! Face it, more macs are in use for a demographic that can handle multiple buttons. The one button folks (ones that can't handle the confusion of multiple buttons) are the minority.

Apple doesn't want to give up the battle for the single button mouse :rolleyes:

Xacttech
Mar 26, 2004, 11:20 AM
I forgot to mention, in regards to the comment about the developers having to utilize two button mouse technology.

THEY ALL READY DO!

Control Click is in almost if not every application I use. And apple uses it to!

Of everything a developer is programming and working on, Multiple button support would not be a worrysome obsticle in the slightest.

keysersoze
Mar 26, 2004, 01:47 PM
I love my one button mouse.
It's the coolest.

:)

g808
Mar 26, 2004, 02:07 PM
yep, there have been a few threads on that. A bluetooth variety is said to be coming in april.

From their FAQ (http://www.macmice.com/faq.html):
Are you going to offer a Bluetooth version of your mouse?
Yes, in June 2004.

About2SwitchOvr
Mar 26, 2004, 02:59 PM
From their FAQ (http://www.macmice.com/faq.html):
Are you going to offer a Bluetooth version of your mouse?
Yes, in June 2004.

I guess that is ok.. since I'm STILL getting used to this sexy piece of machinery. I just got the 20" iMAC and absolutely love it. I got the wireless kb, and decided to stick with the one buttoner till this bluetooth 2+scroll came out. But patient :-) Thanks for the heads-up on the 2 button wired mouse from Macmice. I appreciate all the input and time that you guys put into this forum, it helps us all new converts out a GREAT DEAL!!!

THANKS :D

JOD8FY
Mar 26, 2004, 03:41 PM
Just wondering if anybody bought one and if they did what they think of it. It looks really cool but I'll probably wait until they come out with the bluetooth one in June! :)

markjones05
Mar 26, 2004, 08:47 PM
Just wondering if anybody bought one and if they did what they think of it. It looks really cool but I'll probably wait until they come out with the bluetooth one in June! :)

Yes i did buy one. It is great, best looking, mac-like mouse around thats not actually from apple. It doesnt feel like an apple pro mouse, but i love it.

Nybombers142
Mar 27, 2004, 12:32 AM
get real people. there are 107 buttons on a keyboard, but 2 buttons on a mouse is too complex? sure their are people who cant use use a 2-button mouse, but there are also people who cant tie their shoes, or walk at all. Apple needs to build for the main-stream, not the guy who needs help shaking after he pee's.

michaelrjohnson
Mar 27, 2004, 01:21 AM
I just got my iBook (see sig) and I realize now that I really do want a BT mouse (I added it because it cant' be added internally later). Looking around, I figured that this thing would be the best choice (since I cannot sacrifice 2button/scroll after using it for years). I can have something that looks great, works great, and is wireless! I wonder how much the BT model will be?

Whigga Spitta
Apr 26, 2004, 09:26 PM
Has anyone purchased/seen the aluminum version of this mouse? I was wondering how nicely it complemented the Powerbook, or should I just go for the white one?

cyks
May 1, 2004, 04:00 AM
Considering that practically every program (including the OS itself) uses "control-click"....there's reason right there to have a 2 button "pro" mouse. Have 2 different mice- one for the "e" and "i" products, and a 2 button for the "Power" lines...and offer each as an option for the other (that way nobody is left out).

I know I'd have opted for a 2 if they offered it- rather then packing the one that came with my computer away in some drawer forever.

...point is that almost all programs use 2 and some high-end programs use 3 (Maya for instance).

If it's a case reguarding "they don't want to step on 3rd party support"... then why should they bother with the Studio displays? Or thier software ...isn't FCP and Motion stepping on Adobe's toes?

Apple wants to make $ just like every other company out there... for many years now, the public has been asking for more buttons on thier mice- would love to know Apple's real reasoning for ignoring us all.

Abstract
May 2, 2004, 09:01 PM
While many people in this thread seem to be such Mac loyalists that they would buy something Apple-branded just because it's an Apple product, I'd like to point out that it doesn't really matter where the mouse comes from as long as it works. I don't care if the G5 desktop tower doesn't match the Apple LCD. I don't care if my beige computer speakers don't match my Aluminium PB. I certainly don't care if my mouse doesn't match my PB and comes from Logitech. Apple could include a Logitech MX300 or something as an option. They'll admit that their speakers are harmon kardon (or whatever the company is called...), so I don't see the big deal if they were to include a Logitech mouse, or had Logitech produce a 2 button mouse for Apple that matches the look of their products.

Also, the "one button mouse simplicity" argument doesn't work if someone buys a G5. Anyone who buys a dual G5 desktop should automatically get a 2 button mouse, even if an inexperienced user may use it once in a while, per chance. This way they wouldn't be "pissing off" any of the 3rd party vendors by making a superior product themselves.

GeeYouEye
May 2, 2004, 11:04 PM
Just out of curiosity, if its so vital for Apple to enter the multi-button mouse market.... why haven't they in 20+ years? If it's really that big a deal, one would have been introduced while Steve Jobs was off at NeXT, or the board would have gotten rid of him to allow one to be built (now there's something... the board of directors removing Steve Jobs... over a mouse). However, I'd say that the fact that neither of those have happened indicates pretty strongly that they aren't going to offer one. Go buy one from a third party if you need one so badly.

Personally, I love the one-button trackpad on my iBook, but the lack of any way to scroll was annoying. But did I complain to Apple about that? NO! I went out and downloaded Sidetrack to get a software scroll wheel. Not everything has to be made by Apple.

Apple of my eye
May 2, 2004, 11:50 PM
Think about it. The best way to get around a mac is quick key commands. If you know your quick keys you will smoke anyone with a 2, 3, 4.... button mouse and limited quick key use. If you see any behind the scenes footage at Industrial Light and Magic ( Lucas Film ) you will see alot of 1 buttom mice and specialty keyboards highlighting quick key commands.

cyks
May 3, 2004, 01:00 AM
Think about it. The best way to get around a mac is quick key commands. If you know your quick keys you will smoke anyone with a 2, 3, 4.... button mouse and limited quick key use. If you see any behind the scenes footage at Industrial Light and Magic ( Lucas Film ) you will see alot of 1 buttom mice and specialty keyboards highlighting quick key commands.

Yes... depending on what they're doing at the time. If it's 3d work- then they need a 3 button mouse- with quick keys.

...and I'm sure their accountants don't even use a mouse- just the keypad. Big deal?

There are many jobs where a one button mouse will work, and many where it won't. I know for myself, when I'm working with a mouse- I don't always have my left hand primed to hit the "control" key or the "page up/down keys"... so a 2 button is a necessity. To each their own. Do I care if my 2 button mouse comes from Apple? No- it proudly says Kensington on it. I just wish Apple would give it as an option - so I don't have to spend money on a mouse I'm just going to throw in some drawer.

mproud
May 3, 2004, 01:09 AM
Mechanical wheels are for suckers!

Apple would have to settle for a touch-sensitive scroller.

Think about the iPod. They had a mechanical wheel, then they moved to the touch wheel. And with a mouse, touch is where it's at.

cyks
May 3, 2004, 01:19 AM
Mechanical wheels are for suckers!

Apple would have to settle for a touch-sensitive scroller.

Think about the iPod. They had a mechanical wheel, then they moved to the touch wheel. And with a mouse, touch is where it's at.

http://www.kensington.com/html/3989.html
... 2 button...with a touch-sensitive scroll wheel.

Apple of my eye
May 3, 2004, 03:22 AM
Yes... depending on what they're doing at the time. If it's 3d work- then they need a 3 button mouse- with quick keys.

...and I'm sure their accountants don't even use a mouse- just the keypad. Big deal?

There are many jobs where a one button mouse will work, and many where it won't. I know for myself, when I'm working with a mouse- I don't always have my left hand primed to hit the "control" key or the "page up/down keys"... so a 2 button is a necessity. To each their own. Do I care if my 2 button mouse comes from Apple? No- it proudly says Kensington on it. I just wish Apple would give it as an option - so I don't have to spend money on a mouse I'm just going to throw in some drawer.


I agree, and personally use a Kensington Wireless Turbo Mouse Pro Trackball ( the best mouse ever!!! )

gotohamish
May 3, 2004, 05:36 AM
I think the issue is not actually the MOUSE, but the CLICKING.

If 2-button mice were an official Apple option when purchasing a machine, where would that leave the iBooks and PowerBooks? They have one single click button, and of course some people would prefer a PC-style 2-button xBook but Apple can't go making two different built-to-order options like that and still make money. And not every laptop user wants to buy a mouse.

Torajima
May 3, 2004, 06:23 AM
LOL! First of all I hardly think that using 2 buttons instead of one considers anybody a "power user".

You'd be surprised. Most of the PC users at my company don't know what the second button is for. They do use the scroll wheel, however.

Ironically, the Mac in our Graphics Department has a 5 button mouse...

Really, I don't understand why people complain about Apple's mouse. If you don't like it, you can buy one with more buttons for only $20.

jackc
May 3, 2004, 09:02 AM
Which is it: Mac users are more sophisticated than the average PC user, and willing to pay a premium price, or are they too stupid to grasp the concept of a 2-button mouse?

I think for a potential switcher looking at Apple, the 1-button mouse is an embarrassment.

Westside guy
May 3, 2004, 09:54 AM
I think the issue is not actually the MOUSE, but the CLICKING.

If 2-button mice were an official Apple option when purchasing a machine, where would that leave the iBooks and PowerBooks? They have one single click button, and of course some people would prefer a PC-style 2-button xBook but Apple can't go making two different built-to-order options like that and still make money. And not every laptop user wants to buy a mouse.

I came over from the dark side... er, make that the PC side of things - so I'm used to a multi-buttom mouse (especially because I've been a Linux user). Having said that, I find all laptop pointing devices rather annoying and kludgy. While I wouldn't settle for a one-button external mouse, I don't find that having to use the option key (or is it control?) in coordination with the laptop buttons is any more of a pain in the neck than using a two-button trackpad or whatever.

Understand that I still think it's annoying, for sure; it's just no more annoying than my Dell's built in pointer was. :D

dragula53
May 3, 2004, 11:08 AM
I like multi button mice with scroll wheels. so I buy one from third parties.

ask my (ex) girlfriend and daughter which they prefer.

they fight over who gets the 1 button apple pro mouse.

if apple didn't make it, they wouldn't have it.

I do wish they would make an awesome mouse with a million buttons, but I see the merits of having a 1 button

OnceUGoMac
May 3, 2004, 01:27 PM
I've read every post on this thread and boy are my eyes tired. *ba-dum-dum* For those who say that a two button mouse would be too complicated for new users, I have several statements. In the PC world, they are all two button mice. most people start out on a PC with a two button mouse and they seem to have grasped the concept easily. I remember the first time I used a two button mouse (1988 or so). I was nine and it took me an entire three seconds to learn how to use it. The learning curve of using a two button mouse is not steep. For those that say a one button mouse is nicer looking, i have this to ask. According to who? The fact is that Apple hasn't created a two button mouse. the theories as to why are irrelevent. I think they should make one. The one button mouse is more confusing to a potential switcher, it's less productive, and it's cliche. Just my two cents.

markjones05
May 3, 2004, 05:24 PM
I like multi button mice with scroll wheels. so I buy one from third parties.

ask my (ex) girlfriend and daughter which they prefer.

they fight over who gets the 1 button apple pro mouse.

if apple didn't make it, they wouldn't have it.

I do wish they would make an awesome mouse with a million buttons, but I see the merits of having a 1 button

Not to single you out dragula53, this applies to all future posters. No one want apple to get rid of the one button mouse. Just add a multi button yada yada yada.

rt_brained
May 3, 2004, 06:15 PM
This thread is 2 months old...Why has it popped up again?

----Bowie----
May 3, 2004, 07:24 PM
I like the one button mouse.

dragula53
May 3, 2004, 07:47 PM
Not to single you out dragula53, this applies to all future posters. No one want apple to get rid of the one button mouse. Just add a multi button yada yada yada.
not to single you out either.. but.. aww, I don't have anything to say.

Coolvirus007
May 3, 2004, 09:33 PM
I've got the greatest solution. An Apple 2 button w/scroll bluetooth mouse.

Mord
May 11, 2004, 04:12 PM
Scroll wheels are ergonomically terrible for your fingers. Hat switches can perform the same function and do not result in RSI from continuously twitching one finger in a cramped motion.

amen to that single buttuned mice rule

Threnody
May 16, 2004, 12:15 AM
Take a look at the MacMice FAQ:

Are you going to offer a Bluetooth version of your mouse?
Yes, in late-summer 2004. All design, packaging, and tooling is completed. We are simply waiting our turn on the Bluetooth modules we will use on our circuit board, as these are limited availability, "allocated production" components at this time.

Before it was June. Anyone else wondering if the freaking thing will ever ship?

qubex
May 16, 2004, 03:16 AM
I love the look and feel of the Apple mice. There is something about them that makes them "Perfect".

However, I have to agree with those here who advocate Apple make a multibutton, scroll-wheel enabled, Apple Pro Mouse. Preferably with BlueTooth.

The single-button mice slow me down. I use context menus. I use a scroll-wheel in Safari and in Word, not to mention Excel. (Infact, wouldn't it be great to have a multi-directional "scroll ball" to have a full range of 2D motion?)

At the moment I have a metalic Logitech mouse - a Logitech TrackMan Traveler: two buttons and a small scroll-wheel. The metalic look almost exactly matches my PowerBook's aluminium case. It's USB, but that's acceptable. I also have an Apple Wireless mouse, but I rarely use it anymore.

So, I wish Apple would get their act together and produce a two-button, preferably scrollwheel-enabled, preferably bluetooth mouse to be available as an option. I want an Apple mouse, with the same quality and feel. I don't want a mouse made by another company.

aafuss1
May 16, 2004, 03:49 AM
I saw it advertised in a recent issue of the Australian edition of PC World.

Darwin
May 16, 2004, 11:59 AM
What an interesting thread this is :D

kylos
May 16, 2004, 02:49 PM
I often wonder why apple simply won't create a multibutton mouse with scroll wheel. They aren't that hard to use. They could even include a pivot in the pro mouse design so that the same similar motion used in the current pro mice would be adapted to a 2 button mouse. Just rock your hand to the left or right. If they set up the pivot points right, gamers could even use it for chording, so that a click near the front middle would chord easier than a click in the middle middle (this would actually keep it from chording at the wrong time if someone has a heavy hand). Roll right, roll left, tip forward, with tip forward restricting the possibility of your wrist rolling left or right through well chosen pivot points. Add an optical scroller that can tell the difference between brushing over it and actually scrolling and you have an extremely asthetically pleasing mouse with no visible seams in the surface that has all the functionality of a multibutton mouse.

And yet, even with such a 2 button mouse, there are people who are continually messed up by two buttons. I've heard people say that two buttons are so simple and that anyone who can't use them must be stupid. Fact is, I've seen people who I think it would be unfair to label stupid continually get all messed up with contextual menus. So I can see the argument that there is unnecessary complexity added with two buttons. Why apple does not make a pro mouse, though, and then a one-button mouse seems foolish. It would be a sweet mouse, if apple designed it. Oh, how I'd love a mouse like I described.

EK03
May 16, 2004, 06:05 PM
any nice 3 button mice to match the aluminum of the PBs?

JOD8FY
May 16, 2004, 06:27 PM
any nice 3 button mice to match the aluminum of the PBs?

It's not a three button, but go to www.macmice.com and take a look at their "Aluminum" mouse.

JOD8FY

Ozi
May 18, 2004, 06:45 AM
any nice 3 button mice to match the aluminum of the PBs?

I have just received the new Logitech MX900... it is awesome.

It fits perfectly into my hand, and is a great design. My 15" pBook BTO arrived today, and i will be getting it tomorrow, but the MX900 has similar silvery colour so im sure it will match it nicely.

This mouse is beautiful. :)

~ozi

Ozi
May 18, 2004, 06:47 AM
heres a picture of one, sitting in its charger/bluetooth receiver.
http://rol.ru/pictures/it/news/mx-900.jpg

mcadam
May 18, 2004, 08:12 AM
oh, i love my logictech mouse to, although not as fancy as ozi's...I love the little button to switch between applications, the left and right arrows, the right click and especially the scroll wheel that you can even click, mmm mmm... :D

A mouse full of buttons is simply a much more sophisticated way of interacting with your computer, than using your keyboard (and one button mouse) it's fast and intuitive and I imagine it has lots of unexplored potential...
:)

adam

sockeatingdryer
Jun 3, 2004, 12:20 AM
markjones05
Hey, buddy, calm down. Flaming like that is usually reserved for Fark. (http://www.fark.com) Believe me, I know.

I think when he's talking about people who want the two-button mouse, he's talking about the elderly (I've helped many an older person who was confused about the 2-button scheme on PC's. Like one said, "It would just be easier with one.") and children (see that mom's post above). Maybe even some real newbies to computers. It is easier to move your whole hand down as opposed to your finger (as ergonomics proves), and does less strain and stress to your hand. Apple did alot of research and put alot of common sense into the Pro mouse. The point was to make things easier.
If you want a different mouse with multiple buttons, then just buy a 3rd party one. No biggie, and a silly argument to throw insults at someone about. :o

JFreak
Jun 3, 2004, 06:55 AM
how many have forgotten that "the mouse" is a nick name for a "pointing device"? such a pointing device has two functions: it has to be able to "move" the pointer and "click" what has been pointed, and that's it. nothing more is essential. apple "one-button mouse" is a perfect "pointing device" by definition.

macintosh interface has benefited from this in such a way that it doesn't care about the type of the pointing device - it can very well be a touch screen instead of a "mouse", and the os (and many of the software written for mac) doesn't have to do anything differently. there are gui elements that are pointed and cliced, and that's it.

compared to windows interface where it is absolutely necessary to have such a pointing device that can perform two different kinds of "clicks". now if you replace the "mouse" with a touch screen, you're in trouble. how on earth will you tell the touch screen that this is a click performed by index finger and this is a click performed by a middle finger? compare the ease of use of any interface by imagining you're using the system via touch screen, and you have pretty good usability test of the interface. if it works intuitively and fast with the pointing device only being able to "move" and "click", then it's a good interface. if any of the functions cannot be used with these two actions, there is a design flaw in the interface.

apple has done a pretty good job regarding the usability of its interfaces, and the "one-button mouse" as a pointing device is one of the reasons for that. of course there are shortcuts, but they are considered "extra", and there's nothing wrong if someone wants to choose a different kind of a pointing device. it's just that apple needs to stick with it, because it is so fundamental to them. period. it is perfectly ok that apple sells only the mice it chooses to.

and, by the way, i consider myself as a "power user", but still prefer the "one-button mouse" as a pointing device. i also have a "two-button mouse with a scroll wheel" kind of a pointing device made by logitech, but i find the apple wireless much better than that. and i mean better, always, even when working with protools or photoshop.

bella
Jun 3, 2004, 08:38 AM
I've been using a Macally I Opti Jr. for a couple years now that has the 2 buttons and scroll wheel - Love it - And it lights up red when I use it!! (it's clear and optical)

markjones05
Jun 3, 2004, 09:02 AM
markjones05
Hey, buddy, calm down. Flaming like that is usually reserved for Fark. (http://www.fark.com) Believe me, I know.
:o

I am clam... Just because I make a good argument doesnt mean im "Flaming". Who did I insult? I havnt visited this thread in months, I cant believe its still going.

Anticipat3
Jun 10, 2004, 04:24 PM
Perhaps because it's not stupid.

I'm an ex-windows user, and I use a MX500 with my Mac (5 buttons + Scroll).

HOWEVER, I do think that Apple is making a fine move in sticking to the 1 button mouse. If you're teaching a child or an elderly person how to use a computer, or even SHOWING someone how to do something on a computer, it makes life a lot easier if there's only one button. Simplicity is one of the biggest selling points of a Mac to many users -- the hardware is elegant and has no more bells and whistles than needed, just like the software. The idea is that it's VERY easy to learn to use, and it really makes the whole computer less intimidating.

Another thing to consider is that it simply forces all developers to maintain a clean UI. When most Mac users only have one button, the developers have to cater to that -- cleaner UIs result.

Could apple make this an option? Sure, but why bother? It's not like there aren't a million other 2 button + Scrolling mice out there, and apple even sells them. The pro mouse can't cost more than $10 for apple to manufacture, so it really isn't wasteful for them to include them with every Mac, and when you buy an apple computer, it's not like you're paying through the roof to shell out another $20 for a fancy mouse.

Getting the fancy mouse IS an option, it's just that you can't get one that's apple branded... but who cares, really?

markjones05
Jun 10, 2004, 07:14 PM
Could apple make this an option? Sure, but why bother? It's not like there aren't a million other 2 button + Scrolling mice out there, and apple even sells them. The pro mouse can't cost more than $10 for apple to manufacture, so it really isn't wasteful for them to include them with every Mac, and when you buy an apple computer, it's not like you're paying through the roof to shell out another $20 for a fancy mouse.

Getting the fancy mouse IS an option, it's just that you can't get one that's apple branded... but who cares, really?

I want an apple branded multi purpose mouse... thats the point. U can get a keyboard anywhere, or a monitor or a pc for that matter. People want apple stuff cause its better. I want an apple 2 button mouse, im not asking them to incluse it in pro models...that would be a plus. Just offer it! If apple used the reasoning you just explained they wouldnt even be a company... There are a million other computer companies out there so why bother.... right? Isnt that what your preaching?

themadchemist
Jun 14, 2004, 09:14 PM
Wow, this is precisely what I was looking for before I decided to settle back on the Apple Pro Mouse. It feels better than any other mouse, for sure. Of course, this isn't bluetooth yet so it wouldn't have worked for me. If it does become bluetooth, I might think about it.

JOD8FY
Jun 14, 2004, 09:22 PM
Wow, this is precisely what I was looking for before I decided to settle back on the Apple Pro Mouse. It feels better than any other mouse, for sure. Of course, this isn't bluetooth yet so it wouldn't have worked for me. If it does become bluetooth, I might think about it.

It's going to in "late summer 2004". That's when I'm getting mine. It is a nice replica of the pro mouse, isn't it?

It sounds like you've tested it out, whre did you? Thanks for the info.

Best wishes,
JOD8FY

PowerMacMan
Jun 14, 2004, 10:34 PM
I love two button mice, however I am willing to give Apple's one button mouse a try with my new PM when it comes... My middle finger does have a nasty habit of moving unwantedly and accidentley hitting the right button and that is SO ANNOYING! :mad:

yinyang
Jun 15, 2004, 12:14 AM
if you want a bluetooth mouse with scroll wheel and two buttons to match a pb or g5 that's already available then try...

http://www.macally.com/new/new_btmouse.html

http://www.btboutique.com/product_reviews_info.php?products_id=28&reviews_id=2

and it's $20 cheaper than the AlMouse BT...!

Guntis
Jun 15, 2004, 03:42 AM
Scroll wheels are ergonomically terrible for your fingers. Hat switches can perform the same function and do not result in RSI from continuously twitching one finger in a cramped motion.

I work about 12 hours a day (3 years now) with a MS InteliMouse Explorer scrollwheel mouse - no problems so far...

All this discussion leads me to three conclusions:
1) Apple periferial hardware engineers or managers are living in the past
2) There are some restrictions imposed on Apple by some deals
3) Something is wrong with S. Jobs worldview...

I will never use 1-button mouse. Period.

itsekuri
Jun 15, 2004, 04:28 AM
Simplicity. It can be confusing to a newbie if the mouse has 3 buttons. With one button, there is no question. And it is not like the engineers at Apple have been scratching there heads trying to make a multibutton mouse. They could have made one years ago. As long as Steve Jobs is running Apple you will never see mouse with more than one button.

Look! If apple wanted simplicity the wrong way to do it is to do a single button mouse and then substitute the second mousebutton with CTRL. If you argue that it's easier to use both mouse and keyboard and that this is better usability... Well you are wrong!

If you don't need a second mouse button the you obviously don't need CTRL on your keyboard or contextual menus!

Apple is stupid and ignorant. Multibutton mice increase usability and I don't know a single professional who is happy with the one button mouse. Btw. How many "beginners" buy a 2.5G Powermac? Apple, please give at least the professionals some credit!

I just bought a Logitech MX510 and absolutely love the scrollwheel, 8 programmable buttons and superior optics!
http://www.logitech.com/lang/images/0/2485.jpg

Zargot
Jun 17, 2004, 10:25 AM
For what it's worth, I'm a potential switcher who's only reason for not purchasing a PowerBook is the one button mouse... :(

IMO, the one button mouse appears archaic to seasoned PC users considering switching to the Mac. I'm sure to veteran Mac users the practice of using the keyboard in conjunction with the single mouse button is second nature, but most PC users by now have been weaned on the dual-button mouse with a scroll wheel of some sort and anything less appears inferior.

I agree that with the desktop Macs, its not an issue since you can easily purchase your mouse of choice. In my case that would be a cordless trackball with two buttons and scroll wheel. :)

Chip NoVaMac
Jun 17, 2004, 12:24 PM
For what it's worth, I'm a potential switcher who's only reason for not purchasing a PowerBook is the one button mouse... :(

IMO, the one button mouse appears archaic to seasoned PC users considering switching to the Mac. I'm sure to veteran Mac users the practice of using the keyboard in conjunction with the single mouse button is second nature, but most PC users by now have been weaned on the dual-button mouse with a scroll wheel of some sort and anything less appears inferior.

I agree that with the desktop Macs, its not an issue since you can easily purchase your mouse of choice. In my case that would be a cordless trackball with two buttons and scroll wheel. :)

I understand what you mean, but then you'll be missing out a great notebook. For PB the lack of two button pad is less of an issue since the control for many users is not that much of a stretch.

neut
Jun 17, 2004, 01:15 PM
I understand what you mean, but then you'll be missing out a great notebook. For PB the lack of two button pad is less of an issue since the control for many users is not that much of a stretch.

the only time i actually use the button on my PB17 is when i don't have a mouse and am logging in... other than that my MX500 is always with me. me thinks it's time to go BT though. :)


peace.

Chip NoVaMac
Jun 17, 2004, 01:21 PM
the only time i actually use the button on my PB17 is when i don't have a mouse and am logging in... other than that my MX500 is always with me. me thinks it's time to go BT though. :)


peace.

But Zargot was making an issue that the pad has only one button, and seems unlikely to want a mouse for a laptop...

g4cubed
Jun 18, 2004, 11:21 AM
Simplicity. It can be confusing to a newbie if the mouse has 3 buttons. With one button, there is no question. And it is not like the engineers at Apple have been scratching there heads trying to make a multibutton mouse. They could have made one years ago. As long as Steve Jobs is running Apple you will never see mouse with more than one button.

Simplicity, confusing, to who :confused:. My 4 yr old has been using my old peecee with a three button mouse for awhile. I think it's just being simple minded :o . Steve, wake up and smell the expresso. Most Apple users want a three button mouse. :D

How many "beginners" buy a 2.5G Powermac? Apple, please give at least the professionals some credit!

How true those words are. And I too have that mouse. Awsome.

jknight8907
Jun 19, 2004, 02:27 PM
While reading this about mice and touchpads, I had a cool idea:

We've replaced all moving parts except the scroll wheel by using optical, so why not go total no-moving-parts by using somethink like the scroll section on some laptop's touchpads. Just put a small bit of touchpad on where the scroll wheel is and there you go. Then you could have a mouse that looked like it was all one piece even if it was two button.

jknight8907
Jun 19, 2004, 03:28 PM
Unfortuately, while reading this thread backwards, I found my idea was taken:

http://www.kensington.com/html/3989.html :(

Oh well, I'll get rich off something.........

Cadence
Jul 17, 2004, 07:01 PM
Unfortuately, while reading this thread backwards, I found my idea was taken:

http://www.kensington.com/html/3989.html :(

Oh well, I'll get rich off something.........

you can designa BT version!

westy
Jul 17, 2004, 08:15 PM
I don't understand your as well as dukemeisers logic. Why would Apple want you to go somewhere ele? Dukemeiser do you work fo rone of the third party mice selling companies? If not, why do you care? Krizoitz, why do you think that other companies can make a better mouse than Apple? What do you mean they have no need to? Don't you think people would buy them? I know I would and so would Dukemeiser. I'm sure if they made them alot of people would buy them. How do you come to the conclusion that they don't need to. I don't think it is essential for them to make one but i would sure like it if they did.

take an economy class and figure out why

markjones05
Jul 17, 2004, 09:31 PM
take an economy class and figure out why

Thanks professor. Explain it to me like I was 5 years old. That shouldnt be too hard for a man of your infinate wisdom to do....right?

westy
Jul 18, 2004, 05:56 AM
Thanks professor. Explain it to me like I was 5 years old. That shouldnt be too hard for a man of your infinate wisdom to do....right?

never claimed to be a professor, was just giving a dumbass like you some advice before running your mouth acting like a smartass

next time you try to insult me, type it in word and spell check it first, maybe then you would at least not sound like a moron

Timelessblur
Jul 18, 2004, 12:30 PM
I will tell you this a lot of PC users dont know how to use the 2nd mouse button. My mom never uses it. My grandad is clueless to what it does and when I help him on his computer I try to find the wrap around that does not use that button because it a bit more complex. But something that they do know how to use and they use a lot is the scroll wheel. What I think apple really needs to do is make a 1 button mouse with a scroll wheel because that keeps the simplicty of the 1 button design and the funtionallity of the scroll wheel.

2nd mouse button and beyond on both PC and Macs are for more or less the more powerful users. On my personal computer I use a 5 button Memorex mouse (best mouse I have found for 20 bucks). I personly could not funtion with out at least a 3 button mouse because I relay on the 2nd click so much on my PC. I pull up those menus and selcted my opition with out really reading them (basicly the 2 clicks happen at almost the same time). As for the 5 button it a bet more confusing for most people at first getting used it and my 5 button is a bet diffent than a lot of other 5 buttons. Next time you are in compUSA look at the Memorex mouse and you will see how it diffenet than others.

For Mac laptops they could drop that big button all together and it would not matter to me as long as there is that pad there. On my Gateway laptop it has the touchpad and then 2 buttons and this scrolling thing on it for going upand down. Um yeah I may every once in a while hit the 2nd "mouse" button on it to bring up that speacil menu but it a lot more trouble than it worth. As for the other 2 I never use them. The touch pad does it all for me. Tapping = clicking and then the right and button edge of it can funition like a scroll wheel and I have a feeling you can set that up on the mac PB (I dont know for sure since I dont have one). Now when I need to get a lot more work done on the laptop I plug in a real mouse into it because well a touchpad just sucks compared to a real mouse. In a few years I plan on buying my first mac and it will be a PB. I proublely where never use the "mouse" button on it unless I am doing a control click with it. when I need to do some more major work I will plug in a Real mouse into the USB slot (and proublely a real keyboard or at least a numberpad).

Just my 2 cents.

Sum it all up I think apple may need to make a 1 button mouse with a scroll wheel to replace there current 1 button mouse since practily everyone knows how to use a scroll wheel even those competely COmputer inepted know how to use them. For the power users I figure you all can buy your own mouse since there is no PC manfuctor that gives 5 button mouse with there computers so even the heavy end PC people go out and buy there own mice (Custom builders buy every piece of there computers) Besides buying your own mouse is a lot cheaper than paying apple overprice premium on there mice.

markjones05
Jul 18, 2004, 03:18 PM
never claimed to be a professor, was just giving a dumbass like you some advice before running your mouth acting like a smartass

next time you try to insult me, type it in word and spell check it first, maybe then you would at least not sound like a moron

#1. No advise on your behalf was given...
#2. I dont spellcheck or give much thought to punctuation when responding to posts such as yours.
#3. My advise to you would be to stop running your mouth on these forums. Obviously a n00b like you does not know that people around here usually dont take kindly to directly insulting other members.

Artimus
Jul 18, 2004, 04:34 PM
So what's a good 2 button/scroll wheel mouse for a Mac? (bluetooth!)

MacNeXT
Jul 18, 2004, 05:41 PM
I'm a two button + wheel mouse advocate. I feel that especially these days more and more peecee users are considering switching to mac os x, especially the linux geek kind of guys. But many of them feel the one button mouse is a stupid idea and they're right.

OK, I understand the argument that a 1 button mouse might be easier to understand than a two or three button mouse. But there are far less first time computer users (=people who have to learn to deal with a mouse for the first time in their lives) than there are people who consider apple but don't do it because the 1 button mouse is stupid.

The first timers are more likely to start out with a peecee anyway. Apple should not cater to the first timers, so '1 button is easy' is a non-argument.

Besides, as most of us agree, two or three buttons aren't that diffucult. Even a first timer will see the benefits as soon as they 'get it in their fingers'.

Also, what many people say, that there won't be a 2/3 button mouse as long as Jobs is running the company, is ************. At NeXT he produced computers with two button mice!!!!

westy
Jul 19, 2004, 05:59 AM
#1. No advise on your behalf was given...
#2. I dont spellcheck or give much thought to punctuation when responding to posts such as yours.
#3. My advise to you would be to stop running your mouth on these forums. Obviously a n00b like you does not know that people around here usually dont take kindly to directly insulting other members.

I just thought you didn't know how to spell, but I guess you don't know how to read either. My advice, not advise genius, to you was for you to take an economy class so you understand what you were arguing about with the people on the first page. Remember? That's what got you all worked up in the first place. Now quit before you embarass yourself some more. In fact, don't even speak to me because it is degrading that I'm actually speaking to someone with your intelligence.

PRØBE
Jul 19, 2004, 06:12 AM
Simplicity. It can be confusing to a newbie if the mouse has 3 buttons. With one button, there is no question. And it is not like the engineers at Apple have been scratching there heads trying to make a multibutton mouse. They could have made one years ago. As long as Steve Jobs is running Apple you will never see mouse with more than one button.




Myabe Apple should start making 1 button keyboards too so as not to confuse newbies.

markjones05
Jul 19, 2004, 06:27 AM
I just thought you didn't know how to spell, but I guess you don't know how to read either. My advice, not advise genius, to you was for you to take an economy class so you understand what you were arguing about with the people on the first page. Remember? That's what got you all worked up in the first place. Now quit before you embarass yourself some more. In fact, don't even speak to me because it is degrading that I'm actually speaking to someone with your intelligence.

Haha youre the one who is getting worked up. And once again, you gave no advice what so ever. I usually like to keep my posts narrowed to more productive topics and comments, so I would like to apoligize at this time to everyone who reads this thread. I never should have even responded to such a wasteful and pointless post by westy. Anyway westy if youre insistant on having the last word, feel free to private message me that way I can ignore you and everyone else can as well.

Vanilla
Jul 19, 2004, 06:50 AM
I personally wish that Apple would come out with a “Pro” mouse that had two buttons and a scroll function. I currently use a Microsoft mouse and it pains me to have to attach a product from the dark side to my beautiful PowerBook, particularly as it doesn’t even match.

I simply cannot understand the reluctance of Apple to do this. The argument that appears regularly is that using a one-buttoned mouse is simpler, more intuitive etc. and most people get confused with a two-buttoned mouse, to which I have two points to make:

1. Why does Apple hide additional menus behind a CTRL-Click function when apparently the aesthetic ideal is for one-click functionality? iPhoto is a good example.
2. How come the PC world has operated perfectly adequately with two-button mice for years?

In my opinion if you are going to bundle menus that can only be accessed by CTRL-clicking it has to be more intuitive – or at least a no-brainer attractive facility - to have an additional button on your mouse able to perform the same function. The widespread usage of two-button mice in the PC world is evidence enough surely that the great unwashed can handle such a radical idea.

For sure continue to market a one-button mouse. For certain users it will always be a preferred choice and for teaching young children for example it is an ideal introduction, prior to moving up to a “pro” option.

Finally it would be great if the scrolling function were something other than a wheel. The iPod interface appears ideal, if it could be integrated into a mouse.

Bottom line, I have no problem with people who prefer a one-buttoned mouse. I DO have a problem in having no choice in the matter, except to go 3rd party.

Vanilla

NickFalk
Jul 19, 2004, 07:06 AM
...discussion this and surprising how worked up some people get over such a minor issue. Well just thought I'd give my view on the one/two/many-buttons debate. I switched from the Windows-world less than three years ago (after 16 years with MS-OS'es). I still use windows at work with a two-button mouse naturally.

I have absolutely NO problem using a one button-mouse and it in no way hampers my productivity. When I use "power-applications" (FCP and Photoshop mainly) I always use a lot of keyboard shortcuts anyway so one hand is always on the keyboard. Personally I therefore feel more comfortable with the ctrl+click than the right-mouse-button-click.

Oh and in our office I would say that at least 50% of the people working here never right-clicks, unless they by accident happens to hit the right button. They use their windows-PC's for very specific purposes and have no interest in computing as such.

westy
Jul 19, 2004, 02:47 PM
Haha youre the one who is getting worked up. And once again, you gave no advice what so ever. I usually like to keep my posts narrowed to more productive topics and comments, so I would like to apoligize at this time to everyone who reads this thread. I never should have even responded to such a wasteful and pointless post by westy. Anyway westy if youre insistant on having the last word, feel free to private message me that way I can ignore you and everyone else can as well.

I thought I told you to not speak to me. You're one of those losers who consistently wants to talk to someone even though no one likes you. Your comebacks are that of a 10 year old. You use the same words I use, at least be original and make your own arguments. By your spelling I can tell you are in grade school. Actually, I don't think you're in grade school. Because even a preschooler would know how to spell "apologize". Are you in a mental institution? Like i said before, refrain from speaking to me for the last time loser. I'm sorry that no one in the world wants to talk to you. Give up and shut up. Another "advise" for you, maybe this time you'll understand my advice when I spell it the retarded way like you, go seek therapy. Thanks now get off my nuts and go play elsewhere.

slowtreme
Jul 19, 2004, 03:30 PM
I thought I told you to not speak to me. You're one of those losers who consistently wants to talk to someone even though no one likes you. Your comebacks are that of a 10 year old.As amusing and childish that responce is to whomever it's directed towards, I really wish MacRumors would let you filter or ignore users. I have a few users that I really wish I could just filter like newsgroups just because they annoy me. <edit> I guess you can manually add users to ignore with this link: http://forums.macrumors.com/profile.php?do=editlist ---> ...Oh Yeah!

Timelessblur
Jul 19, 2004, 03:32 PM
umm keep it out of the forums and move it to PM. No one here wants to read you lovers spat