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MacRumors
Feb 26, 2004, 08:23 AM
Development appears to be wrapping up on Mac OS X 10.3.3. The latest seed notes posted on MacNews.net.tc (http://macintosh.fryke.com/cgi-bin/macnews.cgi/2004/02/26) seem to indicate that development is wrapping up.

Key changes listed include improved file sharing and directory services, PostScript and USB printing, font management, updated Disk Utility, DVD Player, Image Capture, Mail and Safari applications and updated drivers.

coumerelli
Feb 26, 2004, 08:25 AM
I always like updates...I can't wait....new features please! :)

As for the improved file sharing....on my all windows network that I join via 802.11b, I hope it'll be easier (and more consistant) to see the other folders on the other computers. Here's to hope!

mystixman
Feb 26, 2004, 08:27 AM
agreed ^^

Grimace
Feb 26, 2004, 08:29 AM
it's nice to have an OS that releases "good" updates!!

Gorbag
Feb 26, 2004, 08:32 AM
ANy news on mLan? The main thing that is holding me back from buying a Yamaha 01-X is the neccessary support that is supposed to be in 10.3.3.

centauratlas
Feb 26, 2004, 08:32 AM
Originally posted by Macrumors
development is wrapping up.

Oh good, so we'll see PB G5s tomorrow (or next Tuesday). Wonderful news. Just kidding.

Seriously, I would interested in seeing if there are changes to support new PM G5s (PM, not PB) in there.

What I found interesting was that they said "This build (Safari) seems a bit crashy, sadly." Wonder if that is isolated.

srobert
Feb 26, 2004, 08:32 AM
Every update has a windows file sharing update. Let's hope they get it right this time because it is one of their main advertised feature (integration on a windows network). Thus far, I only had limited succes working on a windows network.

gwuMACaddict
Feb 26, 2004, 08:34 AM
how big is the update?

fixyourthinking
Feb 26, 2004, 08:36 AM
I have liked 10.3 - except for mail.

Has anyone else had a problem with 10.3 (all updates applied) and Mail.app?

I hope this update addresses my issue. I send in a bug report some 8 -10 times a day. (Mail_unexpectedly quits) Otherwise Panther is very solid.

srobert
Feb 26, 2004, 08:40 AM
Originally posted by adzoox
I have liked 10.3 - except for mail.

Has anyone else had a problem with 10.3 (all updates applied) and Mail.app?

Mail never crashed on me in 10.2 and 10.3

Maybe it's hardware specific. What's your Mac?

machan
Feb 26, 2004, 08:40 AM
is it too much to hope filesharing goes back to the ease of use we had with jaguar?

gola
Feb 26, 2004, 08:43 AM
Font book really REALLY need improvment. It is slow and ****s up the system if it has to many fonts active.

srobert
Feb 26, 2004, 08:43 AM
Originally posted by machan
is it too much to hope filesharing goes back to the ease of use we had with jaguar?

Thank god! I'm not the only thinking that. How is it it worked in 10.2 and now it does'nt work as fine in 10.3? 10.3.1 and 10.3.2 adressed this issue but did not fix it. Strange.

arby
Feb 26, 2004, 08:45 AM
I'm hoping that they have fixed the unexpected crash, seems to occur when the junk mail settings are corrupted.

I send in 10 + bug reports on a daily basis dur to this bug alone.

Anyone using this build, is there a speed improvement?

i_wolf
Feb 26, 2004, 08:46 AM
does anyone know if it fixes the load time issue that was introduced with X.3.2 ????

Also I see the developer release of xcode is currently at 1.1.1 .... do you reckon both will be released at the same time??

MongoTheGeek
Feb 26, 2004, 08:51 AM
Originally posted by srobert
Mail never crashed on me in 10.2 and 10.3

Maybe it's hardware specific. What's your Mac?

I have had issues with Mail and some emails. It seems mostly to happen with forwards from AOL and I think its crufty html.

Other issues I have had with Mail and crashing has to do with some spam and empty messages.

MattG
Feb 26, 2004, 08:52 AM
Originally posted by srobert
Every update has a windows file sharing update. Let's hope they get it right this time because it is one of their main advertised feature (integration on a windows network). Thus far, I only had limited succes working on a windows network. Agreed. Trying to make my Powerbook talk to other computers on the Windows network at work is a pain in the ass. I'd really love a way to create network shortcuts -- for example, there are network shares that I access all the time, and it'd be nice not to have to navigate to them everytime. I'd like the ability to put a shortcut on my desktop, and so far, I haven't found one. Making an alias to it does not work...

Stewie
Feb 26, 2004, 08:52 AM
Originally posted by machan
is it too much to hope filesharing goes back to the ease of use we had with jaguar?

I won't ask for anything else if they can make filesharing work right. I promise!

leenoble
Feb 26, 2004, 09:02 AM
I'd like someone to supply a precedent for new features in an x.x.x release.

I may be wrong and I stand to be corrected but it ain't gonna happen. I don't think there have EVER been changes to functionality in any such release.

Think about it for a minute. Not everyone who uses a Mac is as passionate about the platform as us lot, and you know some people might actually use the printed manual that comes in the box. If Apple goes and makes fundamental changes to functionality in a regular update (AND THIS INCLUDES THE WAY FILE SHARING WORKS AT THE MOMENT) where would this leave those users. Their manuals would suddenly be wrong. There has never been a popup box appear when you do an OS update saying "Oh this has changed and now works like this, and there's this new feature we should make you aware of".

New features are only doable in an x.x release so you'll have to wait for 10.4 if Apple are going to backtrack on the new way that sharing works.

Updates are updates. UpGRADES are upgrades. Stop wishing for things that won't happen.

nighthawk
Feb 26, 2004, 09:02 AM
Originally posted by MattG
Agreed. Trying to make my Powerbook talk to other computers on the Windows network at work is a pain in the ass. I'd really love a way to create network shortcuts -- for example, there are network shares that I access all the time, and it'd be nice not to have to navigate to them everytime. I'd like the ability to put a shortcut on my desktop, and so far, I haven't found one. Making an alias to it does not work...

"Connect to Server..." (Apple-K)

Save as favorite.

For me it is just a few keystrokes to get to a common server. Apple-K, Tab, and Arrow keys to select.

You can also set up an Applescript and assign a keyboard command to instantly access any server (from any application).

dongmin
Feb 26, 2004, 09:05 AM
Originally posted by arby
I'm hoping that they have fixed the unexpected crash, seems to occur when the junk mail settings are corrupted.

I send in 10 + bug reports on a daily basis dur to this bug alone.

Anyone using this build, is there a speed improvement? Your junk mail settings get corrupted 10+ times a day? There is a serious incompatibility with your setup. If I had an application that crashed that many times a day, I'd be moving on to something else, no?


Originally posted by Macrumors
Key changes listed include improved file sharing and directory services, PostScript and USB printing, font management, updated Disk Utility, DVD Player, Image Capture, Mail and Safari applications and updated drivers.

All good, necessary changes. Especially networking and printing, two areas I felt were a step backwards with 10.3.

Hope this is also a sign that some new hardware goodies are in store. Other than the iPod mini, we really haven't had any significant hardware announcements since last WWDC. Maybe with the economy (supposedly) picking up, Apple will release a torrent of new stuff.

KentuckyApple
Feb 26, 2004, 09:10 AM
I hope they fix the fact that Finder refresh takes about 2 seconds. It was instantaneous in OS9 and not so good in 10.2. 10.3 is just terrible.

Ge4-ce
Feb 26, 2004, 09:12 AM
They forgot to mention the HUGE OPenGL update that would be in 10.3.3!!

This update should have following features:

Improved speed for games and OpenGL apps going from 10 to 30% depending on system!!!


It should fix a lot of bugs that affected a couple of apps: MAya, Lightwave and other 3D apps that use openGL..

10.3 broke more things than you can imagine!

I don't say it isn't a good OS, it rocks! especially with the new features, but it has cost me and a lot of other people a lot of years of our lives the last 4 months! All because of the OPenGL problem

rfenik
Feb 26, 2004, 09:12 AM
Mail needs to be fixed. It doesn't send, i have to use microsoft entourage to send. Mail recieves mail ok tho....

-ko

slowtreme
Feb 26, 2004, 09:14 AM
I have two systems with 10.3. Mail is 100% stable on one, the other crashes all the time.

The difference? One has that httpmail plugin installed. the other doesn't. I've just been blaming the httpmail plug-in. maybe it's something else, but when you hack software and that software crashes, it's a good bet the hack caused it.

a_kim
Feb 26, 2004, 09:17 AM
Did nobody actually go to the link and read about the improvements? It seems pretty clear to me that they are addressing the filesharing issue with this update from this bullet:

- network volumes are now available in the Finder sidebar and Desktop for convenient access

Since this already happens (volumes appearing on the desktop and sidebar) when you manually connect to the fileshare in Connect to Server, I'm assuming that this bullet point is referring to when you connect via BROWSING the network. Or maybe I'm just reading this wrong?

-Alex

numediaman
Feb 26, 2004, 09:19 AM
The death, and then rebirth, of my Titanium PB taught me a big lession about OS X: to avoid troubles completely reinstall the OS and wipe out everything.

I never, never, had to do this in any older OS -- going way, way back.

But now with OS 10.3.2 I have had zero problems (other than printing in Classic which is purely a Classic issue). I have to say that I am very happy with the OS now -- but I see a lot of problems for other users. I say bite the bullet and spend one weekend day completely redoing your OS and computer (this means lots of back-up work, of course). It's worth it.

Concerning 10.3.3: let's hope they wrap this thing up soon and get it into the rev b G5s by the end of March. Maybe we will start seeing more rumors coming at us in the next few weeks. For instance, will there be new RAM requirements for the rev b G5s? Will they go to 16 gigs? Will we see cheaper 1 gig sticks? What about dual opticals? New displays? If we don't start hearing new rumors someone needs to start making things up to keep things interesting.

MacsRgr8
Feb 26, 2004, 09:20 AM
Originally posted by rfenik
Mail needs to be fixed. It doesn't send, i have to use microsoft entourage to send. Mail recieves mail ok tho....

-ko

It sends allright with me...

I suppose it does too on most configs out there, otherwise Apple would have had a huge problem. ;)

jouster
Feb 26, 2004, 09:38 AM
Originally posted by numediaman
Will they go to 16 gigs? Will we see cheaper 1 gig sticks?

I was under the impression that they already did, and that Apple's 8GB limit was an artificial one, imposed by availability of appropriately sized memory sticks.

As for cheaper sticks, well, wouldn't that be beyond Apple's control, and completely unrelated to an OS bump?

stingerman
Feb 26, 2004, 09:44 AM
Originally posted by adzoox
I have liked 10.3 - except for mail.

Has anyone else had a problem with 10.3 (all updates applied) and Mail.app?

I hope this update addresses my issue. I send in a bug report some 8 -10 times a day. (Mail_unexpectedly quits) Otherwise Panther is very solid.

I have absolutely no problems. First repair permissions. Second remove all hacks, unsanity, konfabulator (it caused more problems than it was worth), etc. All these hacksies are cute but they have caused stability problems in my system. Once I removed them, Panther has been solid. I was really surprised by konfabulator.

stingerman
Feb 26, 2004, 09:47 AM
Originally posted by jouster
I was under the impression that they already did, and that Apple's 8GB limit was an artificial one, imposed by availability of appropriately sized memory sticks.

As for cheaper sticks, well, wouldn't that be beyond Apple's control, and completely unrelated to an OS bump?

You're right they are at 16GB, you just need the higher density DIMMS which are only now becoming generally available. Still too expensive though.

MightyB
Feb 26, 2004, 09:50 AM
Originally posted by stingerman
I have absolutely no problems. First repair permissions. Second remove all hacks, unsanity, konfabulator (it caused more problems than it was worth), etc. All these hacksies are cute but they have caused stability problems in my system. Once I removed them, Panther has been solid. I was really surprised by konfabulator.



I have also noticed many problem because Konfabulator is running. I don't know if it's the app itself, or specific widgets...

Phazer80s
Feb 26, 2004, 09:50 AM
Yes, please fix Font Book. It's so slow and unresponsive, it feels like an application from the pre-10.1 days. It needs the Preview treatment, thorough optimization to make it the fastest in it's class (it's feature set considered.) It's made by Apple, for goodness sake!

Are all font management tools on OS X this poor? If so, it seems they need to work on font management on a deeper level within the OS. Font Book's current state is a lousy way to win over designers who might switch. :(

Samir 3.0
Feb 26, 2004, 09:51 AM
Originally posted by MattG
I'd really love a way to create network shortcuts -- for example, there are network shares that I access all the time, and it'd be nice not to have to navigate to them everytime. I'd like the ability to put a shortcut on my desktop, and so far,

Just put the folder that you need on the right side of the dock...
The only sad thing is that I didn't find a way to assign a new icon to the folders...
All the folders look too similar :(

Anyone knows hot to do it???

mrzippy
Feb 26, 2004, 09:59 AM
Originally posted by srobert
Mail never crashed on me in 10.2 and 10.3

Maybe it's hardware specific. What's your Mac?

Mail crashes occasionally for me on 10.3x

I have Mail set to run at log in, it crashes on start-up occasionally. Maybe an issue with receiving certian types of email?

Safari is very stable on the other hand, yet some people say that crashes.

Neil

wordmunger
Feb 26, 2004, 10:00 AM
Originally posted by Samir 3.0
Just put the folder that you need on the right side of the dock...
The only sad thing is that I didn't find a way to assign a new icon to the folders...
All the folders look too similar :(

Anyone knows hot to do it???
yes. (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=62105&highlight=change+and+icon)

jouster
Feb 26, 2004, 10:05 AM
I'm glad (well, you know what I mean....) to see that I wasn't the only one having trouble with Konfabulator. Since I got rid of it, I've had a pretty solid system. Keeping the number of menulings down seemed to help as well.

That said, my old PB G3 running 10.2.8 is still more stable. It just chugs away, month after month, running SETI, streaming to my TiVo, serving iTunes......

Konfabulator was a novelty that I liked *both* times I installed it, but after a few days, found that it just wasn't worth the hassle. I would like it if Apple would put some of the widget like features in the OS, though. The fewer apps I have to have open, the better afaiac.

Some_Big_Spoon
Feb 26, 2004, 10:08 AM
HFS Journaling in 10.2.2


Originally posted by leenoble
I'd like someone to supply a precedent for new features in an x.x.x release.

I may be wrong and I stand to be corrected but it ain't gonna happen. I don't think there have EVER been changes to functionality in any such release.

Think about it for a minute. Not everyone who uses a Mac is as passionate about the platform as us lot, and you know some people might actually use the printed manual that comes in the box. If Apple goes and makes fundamental changes to functionality in a regular update (AND THIS INCLUDES THE WAY FILE SHARING WORKS AT THE MOMENT) where would this leave those users. Their manuals would suddenly be wrong. There has never been a popup box appear when you do an OS update saying "Oh this has changed and now works like this, and there's this new feature we should make you aware of".

New features are only doable in an x.x release so you'll have to wait for 10.4 if Apple are going to backtrack on the new way that sharing works.

Updates are updates. UpGRADES are upgrades. Stop wishing for things that won't happen.

leenoble
Feb 26, 2004, 10:15 AM
HFS Journaling in 10.2.2


Doesn't count, there was no GUI change. It was only doable by devout macheads who come to these sort of places.

I'm talking about the incessent barking for things like Home on iPod which seem to accompany every report of a pending update.

Putting Network volumes in the sidebar wouldn't be a change it would be a fix since it sometimes works at the moment and other times the disk you drag over just shrinks away for no logical reason.

Samir 3.0
Feb 26, 2004, 10:19 AM
Originally posted by wordmunger
yes. (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=62105&highlight=change+and+icon)

Thanks

I thought that doing this should have changed the icon on the other computer...

Some_Big_Spoon
Feb 26, 2004, 10:19 AM
HUH? That was a huge change. And it was easily turned on, and off, not to mention the option to turn on journaling with a reinstall / clean install..

GUI changes only count? Newbie :rolleyes:


Originally posted by leenoble
HFS Journaling in 10.2.2


Doesn't count, there was no GUI change. It was only doable by devout macheads who come to these sort of places.

I'm talking about the incessent barking for things like Home on iPod which seem to accompany every report of a pending update.

Putting Network volumes in the sidebar wouldn't be a change it would be a fix since it sometimes works at the moment and other times the disk you drag over just shrinks away for no logical reason.

nighthawk
Feb 26, 2004, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by leenoble
I'd like someone to supply a precedent for new features in an x.x.x release.

I may be wrong and I stand to be corrected but it ain't gonna happen. I don't think there have EVER been changes to functionality in any such release.

[...]

New features are only doable in an x.x release so you'll have to wait for 10.4 if Apple are going to backtrack on the new way that sharing works.

Updates are updates. UpGRADES are upgrades. Stop wishing for things that won't happen.

CUPS printing, in I believe 10.2.3. Added support for thousands of printers that were never before supported by any Macintosh OS.

kugino
Feb 26, 2004, 10:21 AM
what about that firewire 400 problem...the one where if i'm using an external HD via firewire and copying files, i can't use the mouse b/c the cursor starts jumping around everywhere and skipping all over the place. so, i have to wait until copying is done...i've heard others have the same problem...hope it's fixed.

neilw
Feb 26, 2004, 10:22 AM
For those with crashing problems with Mail:

See if it always crashes after you move a message to the junk folder. If so, try deleting the file:

~/Library/Mail/LSMMap2

This, I believe is where Mail stores its "learning" about junk mail patterns.

I just recently encountered this problem, and Mail was crashing 20 times a day until I realized it was the junk mail problem. Removing the above file fixed it completely, and Mail is back to its relatively stable self.

digitalbiker
Feb 26, 2004, 10:26 AM
The idea that an upgrades to the GUI can't take place because of an inability to update the manual is ridiculous!

Have you never heard of online help files, updates to Apple help, etc. etc. Manuals are only as good as the current revision of the OS and do not hinder the updating of OS.

Filesharing needs updating. I for one would at least like to see a search function added so that you could search for Machines, files, printers, etc. based on windows names. For some reason browsing on the network does not consistantly list all of the machines available. You can force a connection using the connect to server button and supplying a cryptic machine@ip address but I would like to see a search option that finds all machines, shared files, printers, etc based on keywords or simple machine names.

jeffmc425
Feb 26, 2004, 10:27 AM
Originally posted by a_kim
Did nobody actually go to the link and read about the improvements? It seems pretty clear to me that they are addressing the filesharing issue with this update from this bullet:

- network volumes are now available in the Finder sidebar and Desktop for convenient access

Since this already happens (volumes appearing on the desktop and sidebar) when you manually connect to the fileshare in Connect to Server, I'm assuming that this bullet point is referring to when you connect via BROWSING the network. Or maybe I'm just reading this wrong?

-Alex

This was a bug I reported in 10.3. it seemed that if ignore permissions was checked on the remote volume, when you go to browse them, they would appear, but would not be accessable. Someone else also reported this and the two bugs were closed, saying it was resolved. So I am making a brash assumption here, but it looks like this is one of the fixes.:)

Photorun
Feb 26, 2004, 10:29 AM
HOPEFULLY they'll fix some printer drivers, my 880 worked great in 10.2, 10.3 WHAM no print control dialogue boxes (ability to print black and white, color, quality), even moved PPDs from my iBook (which is still 10.2) and that made things worse (now my G5 gets confused). Heard this from a few people. Also please put network browsing back the way it used to, what the ******* was Apple thinking (smoking) when they went to you need to know the IP address and you can't just browse the network. STUPID STUPID STUPID!!!

Everything else about 10.3 is great, but these two HUGE step backs are a major inconvenience.

fixyourthinking
Feb 26, 2004, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by MongoTheGeek
I have had issues with Mail and some emails. It seems mostly to happen with forwards from AOL and I think its crufty html.

Other issues I have had with Mail and crashing has to do with some spam and empty messages.

That's when it happens to me ... it lies with in this issue I believe

It's not hardware specific as suggested - I have a synced iBook G4 and PowerBook G3 (with 550G4) - they do the exact same thing. I have tried to completely reinstall and reupdate 10.3 and even wiped the iBook and started over - I had zero mail problems in 10.2.8

xtbfx
Feb 26, 2004, 10:33 AM
Originally posted by centauratlas
What I found interesting was that they said "This build (Safari) seems a bit crashy, sadly." Wonder if that is isolated.

Um, here's from the same website:
"Correction: It's quite stable. ;)

In my previous post I mention that Safari v125.1 appears 'crashy'. However after a restart I haven't had a single crash of Safari in 10.3.3 7F34. I've also received comments from a few developers: Some have also had that crash on first launch, others have not. It seems to be okay. "

leenoble
Feb 26, 2004, 10:33 AM
CUPS printing, in I believe 10.2.3. Added support for thousands of printers that were never before supported by any Macintosh OS

CUPS was added in 10.2
I was waiting for it to get my Epson 1520 working.

Journaling could only be turned on in Jaguar using the defaults.write command in the terminal and it didn't affect how anything worked to the average user. It wasn't until 10.3 that journaling became a GUI option.

Changing back to Jaguar's implementation of browsing networked volumes or sticking a home on ipod option on the accounts preferences would be an unexpected behaviour change since there is no way to let the average user who just runs the updates know that these changes have been made.

leenoble
Feb 26, 2004, 10:36 AM
The idea that an upgrades to the GUI can't take place because of an inability to update the manual is ridiculous!

Have you never heard of online help files, updates to Apple help, etc. etc. Manuals are only as good as the current revision of the OS and do not hinder the updating of OS.

Yeah, just ask people to type in "WTF happened to the connect to server dialog window?"

fixyourthinking
Feb 26, 2004, 10:38 AM
Originally posted by neilw
For those with crashing problems with Mail:

See if it always crashes after you move a message to the junk folder. If so, try deleting the file:

~/Library/Mail/LSMMap2

This, I believe is where Mail stores its "learning" about junk mail patterns.

I just recently encountered this problem, and Mail was crashing 20 times a day until I realized it was the junk mail problem. Removing the above file fixed it completely, and Mail is back to its relatively stable self.

Thanks for that - I had the same frequency - I will see if that suggestion works ... does that file become corrupt? I really noticed this after
Pocketmac installed a mail conduit - BUT I uninstalled the program after multiple problems with it any way.

Update: seems to have worked

dwsolberg
Feb 26, 2004, 10:52 AM
There's a manual?!? All I got was a short, very simple pamphlet that was almost completely obvious. I can tell you it had 24 pages (the separate license agreement was thicker) and that four of those pages showed networking. On the "Works with Windows" page, it showed only a picture of browsing a network and a picture of the connect to server window.

IT DID NOT GIVE ANY OTHER INFORMATION. That is to say, it did not tell what would happen after you connected to the server, nor did it tell how to disconnect from the server. Let's face it. More software often has incomplete or missing manuals. There are hundreds of undocumented features in the operating system (just buy the Missing Manual to find some of them). Apple could change one or two without problems.

alandail
Feb 26, 2004, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by leenoble
I'd like someone to supply a precedent for new features in an x.x.x release.

I may be wrong and I stand to be corrected but it ain't gonna happen. I don't think there have EVER been changes to functionality in any such release.

Think about it for a minute. Not everyone who uses a Mac is as passionate about the platform as us lot, and you know some people might actually use the printed manual that comes in the box. If Apple goes and makes fundamental changes to functionality in a regular update (AND THIS INCLUDES THE WAY FILE SHARING WORKS AT THE MOMENT) where would this leave those users. Their manuals would suddenly be wrong. There has never been a popup box appear when you do an OS update saying "Oh this has changed and now works like this, and there's this new feature we should make you aware of".

New features are only doable in an x.x release so you'll have to wait for 10.4 if Apple are going to backtrack on the new way that sharing works.

Updates are updates. UpGRADES are upgrades. Stop wishing for things that won't happen.

what manual?

Wonder Boy
Feb 26, 2004, 11:39 AM
the only issue i have is that i cant use my lexmark z12 printer. thats more of a lexmark thing, i guess, but are there any hacks that will make my printer compatible with 10.3?

BenRoethig
Feb 26, 2004, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by coumerelli
I always like updates...I can't wait....new features please! :)

As for the improved file sharing....on my all windows network that I join via 802.11b, I hope it'll be easier (and more consistant) to see the other folders on the other computers. Here's to hope!

I'd like to see network computers appear on the desktop.

nagromme
Feb 26, 2004, 11:50 AM
Rendezvous has never worked for me reliably--not for file sharing! It's perfect for iTunes and iChat, but in Finder, even two MACS can't reliably see each other. Not in Jaguar, not in Panther. The ONLY way I can connect sometimes is to create a fake IP address--a procedure not found in the manual or the Help, and one which requires you to know the # of each machine you'd ever want to connect to. So impractical, and such a step back from OS 9. And when Rendezvous does work, you don't get server icon on the desktop, and unmounting the server is not reliable. It vanishes but remains connected and causes an error when you pull the plug.

Now, if Rendezvous file sharing would actually work between two Macs, 10.3.3 would the best update ever! And would actually encourage people to own two Macs, instead of punishing them.

PS, someone said that software updates never have a pop-up box telling you what's changed. That's wrong--they ALWAYS have that.

El Tritoma
Feb 26, 2004, 11:54 AM
Originally posted by adzoox
I have liked 10.3 - except for mail.

Has anyone else had a problem with 10.3 (all updates applied) and Mail.app?

I hope this update addresses my issue. I send in a bug report some 8 -10 times a day. (Mail_unexpectedly quits) Otherwise Panther is very solid.

Mail just expectedly quit on me a few minutes ago, but normally I don't have problems. They are messing with our mail server here at work and I think that might have been what caused it.

El Tritoma
Feb 26, 2004, 12:00 PM
I move files to the junk pile quite a bit and mail does not crash. My crash occurred after I had put my laptop to sleep, disconnected, moved to a new location and started up mail. It crashed right away.

xtbfx
Feb 26, 2004, 12:00 PM
Originally posted by BenRoethig
I'd like to see network computers appear on the desktop.

They do if you connect to them by Cmd+K then type in the IP address.

I want the Network browser that was in Jaguar dangit!!!

Why did they have to screw up network browsing in Panther. If it ain't broken, DON'T fix it!

JFreak
Feb 26, 2004, 12:01 PM
stop whining.

in general, each osx update makes my home computer faster and more usable. in comparison, each xp update generally makes my work computer slower and more prone to crashes. apple is going to the right direction here, but you guys just are not getting the point.

now if you all reported found bugs to apple, that would be different thing totally. when million people find a bug and report it, apple will more likely take an action than if million people found it and chose to whine about it here.

do something useful.

swissmann
Feb 26, 2004, 12:06 PM
Through this thread there seem to be lots of bits of problems. My overall opinion is 10.3 is way more buggy than 10.2. I have it running on 3 powermacs. 2 are MDD G4's and one is G5 Dual 2. I have upgraded all three computers identically and from my experience applications quit all the time on all of the machines. The computer rarely needs to be rebooted but Applications Unexpectedly quit. This is not isolated to one machine! Does anyone else feel that 10.3 has a lot of fixing to be done not just for a few things. Here are some of my gripes that I have spoken to apple about.

Finder window refreshes are pretty sluggish.
When connecting across my network it will connect through and then let me in a couple of levels then push me back to the root of what I am connecting to and give me some error message. I can navigate again though, or even stranger if I push the back button it takes be back to where I had already navigated.

Sometimes the little arrow on the icon on Network icons go white. No big deal but weird.

The text on the icons that are on the desktop over time get this rough outline look. This degrades over time. When you select the icon it cleans it up with a nice shadow look like it originally was.

When arrowing down a list of items in the column view you can't just Shift-Click on one a few away to select from the one you are on to the one you click on. You must first mouse click on the one you are on then Shift click away. This worked in 10.2 so I made it a habbit now it is frustrating to lose my place.

Applications quit all the time. Final Cut Pro, Live Type, Microsoft Office, Filemaker Pro 6, iDVD, you name it.

If I am connected to a computer across the network and that computer is told to shut down it immediately asks me if I want to disconnect the person connected. However, if I put that computer to sleep it makes the other computer hang for a while trying to figure out what happened. Why can't it be immediate like when shut down?

Am I the only one - and strange that it happens on all my computers. I wonder if I have a piece of software that is consitent that is messing them all up? I think I am up to date on all updates though.

MacBandit
Feb 26, 2004, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by gwuMACaddict
how big is the update?

Last I read it was around 70MB. That's why there is some question to whether or not this will be made available as a download over Software Update.

virividox
Feb 26, 2004, 12:13 PM
bring it on!!! hopefully it will iron out some minor kinks i have with mail

soosy
Feb 26, 2004, 12:23 PM
I've also experienced a ton more application crashes in Panther.

I have also gotten the Mail crash trying to junk blank spam messages. I've also had to clear that LSMMap2 once due to crashes.

I've also gotten a problem with the Finder relaunching sometimes when I have image files on the desktop I'm trying to drag into a newly created folder on the desktop. It happens repeatedly every time I try to drag them and I often end up opening the desktop folder in a finder window as a workaround.

All of these things have happened repeatedly on both my home and work machines...

I'm also hoping they continue to tweak networking until it matches it's former (jaguar) glory!

garybooberry
Feb 26, 2004, 12:37 PM
Fix Safari and Mail, please.

Thanks.

JFreak
Feb 26, 2004, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by swissmann
My overall opinion is 10.3 is way more buggy than 10.2

well, if you compare 10.2.latest to 10.3.earliest you will presumably find out that the one which has all old bugs fixed is more stable than the one which has all new bugs introduced. that's the nature of software development; you always have a choise - you can have new features if you can stand a few bugs, but if you require a rock-solid stable system, you will need to accept that the tried-and-true version does not have all the new features.

in my opinion 10.2.0 was buggier than 10.3.0, but admit that the new bugs of panther feel sometimes a little annoying because the stable state of jaguar is still fresh memory since i upgraded only 2 weeks ago.

go apple! bring the updates when they are ready. i don't mind it taking a week longer if that's what it takes to make it more stable.

JGowan
Feb 26, 2004, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by adzoox
I have liked 10.3 - except for mail. Has anyone else had a problem with 10.3 (all updates applied) and Mail.app?... (Mail_unexpectedly quits)I'm running a Quicksilver 2002 Dual 1GHz and Mail crashes on me a lot for no reason and EVERYTIME I select an email and try to teach Mail that it is Junk... it will crash 100% of the time. It is so frustrating because one of the best things about Mail is its filtering out the junk, but lately, the spammers are getting smarter and lots more of this stuff is getting through. Without being able to teach Mail what is Junk, I've got to weed through a lot of crap again.

Earendil
Feb 26, 2004, 01:04 PM
Concerning Jag vs Panther networking.

What is it about the networking that you don't like exactly? Is it the functionality, the consistency of being able to get a connection, or the user interface?

I went straight from an OS8.6 Bondi iMac to a Panther 1.25 PB, so to me the User Interface for networking friggin rocks :D
I've kinda stood by and watched people whine about Panther networking without saying a word, so I thought I'd step up to the plate. It's a shame that the whiners and negative attitudes are always the disproportionally louder group. Has there been a poll on this? if not, may make a good poll...

That said, out family also has two Jag machines still left in it, and when I go to use networking functions on them, I find the command K window, and having the Network Drive appear on the (always covered) desktop to be cumbersome compared to the network Drive appearing on the "Left Side Bar" (technical name for that?).

Functionality wise, I dunno how reliable Panther networking is compared to Jaguar, but then that isn't what I'm talking about :)

Tyler
Earendil

MacBandit
Feb 26, 2004, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by JGowan
I'm running a Quicksilver 2002 Dual 1GHz and Mail crashes on me a lot for no reason and EVERYTIME I select an email and try to teach Mail that it is Junk... it will crash 100% of the time. It is so frustrating because one of the best things about Mail is its filtering out the junk, but lately, the spammers are getting smarter and lots more of this stuff is getting through. Without being able to teach Mail what is Junk, I've got to weed through a lot of crap again.

Try deleting your pref files.

shoez
Feb 26, 2004, 01:11 PM
word highlight shortcut keys are different in each application

can't stop stuff which is causing the system to lock up in safari (assessing a localhost for instance) - pizza wheel appears

no "mail to" action on right-click file select

activity monitor takes up 156mb of virtual memory!?

can't see size of file just by clicking on it (tool/taskbar)

expose is sluggish initially

can't tab to pulldown menus or radio clicks -why??

sometimes when dropping stuff into the Applications folder, it seems to go in but disappears - not to be found in either location without a word of warning.

volume and brightness controls can be very slow to operate.

itunes doesn't show enough/allow enough time to see the whole Shoutcast title. Should allow grabbing scroller and manually shifting it left<>right

Font listing!!! (in Word), way too big, can;t scroll quickly, and can't quickly jump to an entry by typing the first few letters of the name.

Can't perform undo+redo operations in form boxes in Safari

The way safari doesn't seem to cache and page, and when returning to the previous page starts at the top and moves down after other page elements have reloaded

When returning to a page in Safari, starts at the top, manually scroll to a place of your bidding - when it finally finishes reloading the page it jumps back to the original place (linked with bug above)

Safari - a page fails to load, message dialogue appears, address bar loses focus so can't quickly reload the page.

Safari - when you write a long document in a textarea window in one tab, go into another tab and return back, the textarea remains in focus but it scrolls back up to the top (cursor remains at the bottom)

No easy way to arrange files which may be oddly spaced all over a directory

No fast way to sort by name, date, etc. when in large icon mode

too much bloody space wasted with windows - spacing of icons is pretty crap

itunes - select a load of tunes in a finder window, drag them across to iTunes (the left-most window-playlists). iTunes automatically creates a playlist (good), highlights the "untitled playlist n" text, but doesn't transfer window focus.

iTunes - doesn't seem to recognise the numbers at the start of a filename...

calculator doesn't show zeros when they are being input after a decimal point.

iPhoto leaves the camera display on while downloading photos!

iPhoto doesn't download camera movies

iPhoto is slow, takes ages to connect to camera and start to process images. Pizza wheel of doom shows regularly.

iPhoto doesn't show current file location - just a file name!!

iPhoto/Finder doesn't seem to show icon previews of some JPG images!?

Safari/Finder won't allow you a contextual right/ctrl-click file options menu. So I can browse for files in Safari, find one and open it, archive it, etc. from the dialog. Rationale: If I'm uploading a photo to a website, I want to definitively find out what it is beforehand (rather than using separate Finder window).

Word vX is slow as you like!

mstecker
Feb 26, 2004, 01:46 PM
Whoever breaches their confidentiality agreement and posts this stuff is a low-life in my book.

Apple makes this stuff available confidentially for a reason. If people can't keep their mouths shut, they will stiop releasing it at all.

mcsjgs
Feb 26, 2004, 01:50 PM
One person on the Apple Insider forums has reported the newest build of 10.3.3 is 274 MB!!!

"but so far, looks like a great (and BIG (274megs!) ) update is on the way"

Apple Insider Link (http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38825)

Can this possibly be right?

fabsgwu
Feb 26, 2004, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by mstecker
Whoever breaches their confidentiality agreement and posts this stuff is a low-life in my book.

Apple makes this stuff available confidentially for a reason. If people can't keep their mouths shut, they will stiop releasing it at all.


If you're talking about the last guy who had the laundry list of gripes (mostly I agree with those btw), I think he was refering to 10.3 thus far in general.

mstecker
Feb 26, 2004, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by fabsgwu
If you're talking about the last guy who had the laundry list of gripes (mostly I agree with those btw), I think he was refering to 10.3 thus far in general.

Nope, I'm talking about whoever posted the detailed feature list that's in 10.3.3 build 7F34.

M.

jettredmont
Feb 26, 2004, 02:06 PM
Originally posted by shoez
word highlight shortcut keys are different in each application



Unfortunately, Apple can do very little about this. In the Cocoa text boxes it's consistent. Elsewhere ... Yeah, I hate that too.


no "mail to" action on right-click file select


That bothers me too. I wouldn't want Windows' overcrowded context menus, but the "Send To" fly-out is indispensible ...


expose is sluggish initially


I don't get this one at all. What kind of hardware are you on?


can't tab to pulldown menus or radio clicks -why??


Turn on Universal Access. In the System Preferences.

Why can't you do this by default? I dunno. Makes no sense to me that you'd want to have to reach for the mouse to select your state or deselect all the "opt-in" checkboxes on web forms ... This is the first pref I change when I sit down to a new box.


volume and brightness controls can be very slow to operate.


Again, I don't get this. Mine are instant, even when I'm doing a long compile/link process using 100% CPU ...


No easy way to arrange files which may be oddly spaced all over a directory


Huh?

Try View|Arrange, then whichever way you'd want to have them arranged. Or, View|Clean Up if you just want to make the layout a little ... umm ... "cleaner" ...


No fast way to sort by name, date, etc. when in large icon mode


Try the View|Arrange menu.


itunes - select a load of tunes in a finder window, drag them across to iTunes (the left-most window-playlists). iTunes automatically creates a playlist (good), highlights the "untitled playlist n" text, but doesn't transfer window focus.


Feature, not a bug. When dragging something from the foreground app to the background app the window focus should not change.

Personally, when I'm dragging stuff from Finder to iTunes I am generally dragging a few over, then finding more stuff in the Finder, then dragging a few more over, etc. It would annoy me to no end if iTunes were to grab interface focus with each drag. How Microsoftian.


iTunes - doesn't seem to recognise the numbers at the start of a filename...


If you have ID3 tags in your files, iTunes goes off those. If you have none, then the numbers in the filename are preserved along with everything else in the "track name". You get into trouble when you have only partial ID3 tags, say, with the artist and album and track name, but relied on the filename for number. Oops. On the other hand, it would be pretty unreasonable to have iTunes try and figure out your track numbers from the import file name I'd think.


calculator doesn't show zeros when they are being input after a decimal point.


Hmmm. Yeah, I guess that's a bit odd. Never noticed it before!

As a developer, I can see why this likely is (the app is keeping a double for the current entry and displaying based on that, but skipping looking at the next-digit entry position to see how many digits after the decimal it should be adding, I'd guess). But, it's a bit silly and sloppy.


iPhoto leaves the camera display on while downloading photos!


And this is a problem ... why?

I think this is more a camera/driver issue than iPhoto. My camera's display stays off while downloading photos.


iPhoto doesn't download camera movies


True, but that's because iPhoto doesn't handle movies, it only handles still photos. You can change your default camera-handling app to "Image Capture" (I believe) to have the movies downloaded too, and the stills sent over to iPhoto. At least, in theory. I don't have a movie function on my camera and wouldn't use it if I did (that's why I have a video camera! but that's a diatribe for another day) ...


iPhoto is slow, takes ages to connect to camera and start to process images. Pizza wheel of doom shows regularly.


Odd. iPhoto connects to and imports my photos exactly as fast as the Windows software my camera maker (Kodak) supplies. Sounds like a driver issue. See if there is an updated driver on your camera maker's website.


Photo doesn't show current file location - just a file name!!


File location is irrelevant, right?

This bothers me too. But, it's a side-effect of an application using a database approach. iPhoto would really rather you not go mucking around in its directory structure; you should manipulate those images through the iPhoto interface instead of Finder.

dwsolberg
Feb 26, 2004, 02:08 PM
Tyler,

Here's one problem:

If you browse for networks, there is no way to RELIABLY *dis*connect from a browsed network. (Dragging the icon to the trash does not work.) If you don't have a portable computer, you will probably not notice this because you're connected anyway. If you have a 'book, then the computer will misbehave and stall when you move from your work network to your home network to the network at the coffee shop.

If you want to use "connect to server" command-K, then you must know the IP address. It's not helpful when you're working in various offices and you want to pull a file from someone's DHCP-served computer.

smags
Feb 26, 2004, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by dwsolberg
Tyler,

Here's one problem:

If you browse for networks, there is no way to RELIABLY *dis*connect from a browsed network. (Dragging the icon to the trash does not work.) If you don't have a portable computer, you will probably not notice this because you're connected anyway. If you have a 'book, then the computer will misbehave and stall when you move from your work network to your home network to the network at the coffee shop.

If you want to use "connect to server" command-K, then you must know the IP address. It's not helpful when you're working in various offices and you want to pull a file from someone's DHCP-served computer.

Take a look at the update. Browsing has changed and the reliability is now given. Doubleclicking to a server in the finder opens the same dialog as with "connect to..." Volumes are automatically mounted to finder and desktop. browsing with finder does not work for me anymore.

shoez
Feb 26, 2004, 02:17 PM
yeah sorry, just to confirm - these issues I have are derived from the latest public release. I'm not party to any Apple developers programme or pre-release software.

I do love however, when people pass lengthy comment on each gripe it such a belittling way.... :)


opps, sorry forgot the rest. Just joking of course, but it's important to be constructive when it comes to usability points because you need to demonstrate how users actually "use" the interface, and not how it was designed to be utilised. As an aside my machine is a 12" Powerbook rev.b.

shoez

iHack
Feb 26, 2004, 02:46 PM
Originally posted by MattG
Agreed. Trying to make my Powerbook talk to other computers on the Windows network at work is a pain in the ass. I'd really love a way to create network shortcuts -- for example, there are network shares that I access all the time, and it'd be nice not to have to navigate to them everytime. I'd like the ability to put a shortcut on my desktop, and so far, I haven't found one. Making an alias to it does not work...

In jaguar this is how it works perfectly: drag the network volume icon from your desktop onto the toolbar (is that what it's called?) at the top of your finder windows, next to programs, home etc.
It will show a network volume icon if you're connected or a questionmark if you're not. Clicking on it will connect and take you to the volume. Brilliant really.
And my favorite: if you try to open a recent file in e.g. Word that happens to be on a server (a samba server in my case), it connects to the server and opens the file. Completely transparantly. Really, really cool.

M.

MacBandit
Feb 26, 2004, 03:15 PM
Originally posted by jettredmont
Unfortunately, Apple can do very little about this. In the Cocoa text boxes it's consistent. Elsewhere ... Yeah, I hate that too.



That bothers me too. I wouldn't want Windows' overcrowded context menus, but the "Send To" fly-out is indispensible ...


There is a way to do this. Highlight what you want to send-to and then got to the Application title menu/services/mail from there you can send your link or text to an email. I'm sure there's a way to add applications to this send to menu but I don't know how.

rdowns
Feb 26, 2004, 03:21 PM
Originally posted by digitalbiker
The idea that an upgrades to the GUI can't take place because of an inability to update the manual is ridiculous!

Have you never heard of online help files, updates to Apple help, etc. etc. Manuals are only as good as the current revision of the OS and do not hinder the updating of OS.



The notion that no new features can be added because of the manual is ridiculous. I just dug out my Panther "manual" which is all of 24 pages, mostly pictures. Apple hardly ships a manual with their OS. For every topic Apple touches on, there are no more than 4 or 5 sentences. Each page tells you to search help for more information. At best, the manual is for a first time user only.

gareth
Feb 26, 2004, 03:27 PM
Originally posted by srobert
Mail never crashed on me in 10.2 and 10.3

Maybe it's hardware specific. What's your Mac?

isnt that the whole advantage of buying a mac and why windows isnt always so good with hardware compatability?

anyhoo... i've heard a lot of people say delete the mail.app related config files in the library folder and reset up (esp. if you've upgraded from an earlier os).


Gareth

jacg
Feb 26, 2004, 03:30 PM
Hope USB printing gets proper treatment. I have to unplug my USB-to-parallel adapter after every job or it gets stuck. Airport/rendezvous printing to a another HP printer stops randomly during one in five pages. (when this happens something goes nuts in the activity monitor and my powerbook fan comes on).

Mail has been dreadful since 10.3.2 and many other apps have quit with alarming regularity (eg FCP, iDVD, iPhoto, Excel, Word).

If 10.3.3 doesn't do the job I'm going to have to wipe this PB clean.

(edit: I didn't mean "if 10.3.3 doesn't wipe my PB clean...". Hmmm, there's a thought...)

Stewie
Feb 26, 2004, 03:34 PM
Originally posted by Earendil
Concerning Jag vs Panther networking.

What is it about the networking that you don't like exactly? Is it the functionality, the consistency of being able to get a connection, or the user interface?

I went straight from an OS8.6 Bondi iMac to a Panther 1.25 PB, so to me the User Interface for networking friggin rocks :D
I've kinda stood by and watched people whine about Panther networking without saying a word, so I thought I'd step up to the plate. It's a shame that the whiners and negative attitudes are always the disproportionally louder group. Has there been a poll on this? if not, may make a good poll...

That said, out family also has two Jag machines still left in it, and when I go to use networking functions on them, I find the command K window, and having the Network Drive appear on the (always covered) desktop to be cumbersome compared to the network Drive appearing on the "Left Side Bar" (technical name for that?).

Functionality wise, I dunno how reliable Panther networking is compared to Jaguar, but then that isn't what I'm talking about :)

Tyler
Earendil

The inability for Panther to add my username and password to the keychain for the windows servers I connect to everyday.

The sometime strage problem of not prompting for a username and password on a windows share and then telling me that the username and password is not correct.

Finder Crashing when trying to view a windows share

Finder refusing to disconnect a windows share, claiming it is still in use.

Other apple servers not showing up under network view

I could go on.

Stewie
Feb 26, 2004, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by dwsolberg
Tyler,

Here's one problem:

If you browse for networks, there is no way to RELIABLY *dis*connect from a browsed network. (Dragging the icon to the trash does not work.) If you don't have a portable computer, you will probably not notice this because you're connected anyway. If you have a 'book, then the computer will misbehave and stall when you move from your work network to your home network to the network at the coffee shop.

If you want to use "connect to server" command-K, then you must know the IP address. It's not helpful when you're working in various offices and you want to pull a file from someone's DHCP-served computer.

You can experience the same problem when connecting via command-K.

My favorit is after I have unplugged from my work network and tried to disconnect a windows share and been denied, I can still 'browse' the cached directories that Panther is holding on to for some strange reason. At least it isn't caching files :)

mdriftmeyer
Feb 26, 2004, 03:55 PM
Originally posted by rfenik
Mail needs to be fixed. It doesn't send, i have to use microsoft entourage to send. Mail recieves mail ok tho....

-ko

Consult your System's Adminstrator who manages SMTP services for you. Mail.app sends email just fine.

Ask the System Admin what Mailserver software they are running. Suggest Postfix.

Make sure that if you are running SSL/TLS that they have the proper settings and ports turned on, etc..

Kiwi-Todd
Feb 26, 2004, 04:10 PM
xxxOriginally posted by machan
is it too much to hope filesharing goes back to the ease of use we had with jaguar?


Thank god! I'm not the only thinking that. How is it it worked in 10.2 and now it does'nt work as fine in 10.3? 10.3.1 and 10.3.2 adressed this issue but did not fix it. Strange. xxx

Wow! I have been whinging about this since 10.3.2 and also thought I was alone in my frustration! - here's hoping......

jettredmont
Feb 26, 2004, 04:57 PM
Originally posted by shoez

I do love however, when people pass lengthy comment on each gripe it such a belittling way.... :)


Lengthy post -> lengthy reply ...

Was I belittling?

If so, sorry about that. Just wanted to give a few workarounds and an idea of why some of the things work the way they do (for instance, iTunes not popping to foreground when files are dropped on it).

You might want to call Apple tech support about the lag with Expose and the volume/mute/etc keys. I have an old 500MHz TiBook running Panther, and those buttons work very well there (not Expose ... but that's because the graphics card in it is sorely lacking, which shouldn't be the case with your 12" PB). Mention your iPhoto delay problems as well; that may be related.

akac
Feb 26, 2004, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by MacBandit
There is a way to do this. Highlight what you want to send-to and then got to the Application title menu/services/mail from there you can send your link or text to an email. I'm sure there's a way to add applications to this send to menu but I don't know how.

There is actually a free bundle you can install that gives you your services menu in Cocoa contextual menus. But I can't remember what it is...

johnpaul191
Feb 26, 2004, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by gola
Font book really REALLY need improvment. It is slow and ****s up the system if it has to many fonts active.

when you say too many font... what do you mean? i know some people scquire and load hundreds of fonts and make them all active.

you know you don't need to have them all active all the time.... hence font software. i think that fontbook is not great for people with TONS of fonts on their system.
excessive active fonts has been an OS slowdown even back in the classic days (i remember it as far back as system 6), but nobody needs them all active all the time.

elgruga
Feb 26, 2004, 05:27 PM
Mail is a mess. Thats what they need to fix. File sharing is a bit messy at times, but Mail? Puhleeez!

Mail does weird things, is counter-intuitive, and just not very good.

Please sort out Mail, Steve Jobs.

Yes, I want SJ himself to actually work on the code.
All this running around with Pixar isnt helping to fix Mail, is it Steve?

No. Exactly.

fluidinclusion
Feb 26, 2004, 05:30 PM
Originally posted by numediaman
The death, and then rebirth, of my Titanium PB taught me a big lession about OS X: to avoid troubles completely reinstall the OS and wipe out everything.

I never, never, had to do this in any older OS -- going way, way back.

But now with OS 10.3.2 I have had zero problems



I TOTALLY AGREE. Although I've not had many problems (started with 10.1.0 and upgraded all the way to 10.3.2), I have had some. Wierd things like Quicktime previews in the Finder have no sound, others, etc. I decided to reinstall, partly to see if these "quirks" go away and also just to clean out all the junk I've installed over the last 2.5 years.

I'm very glad I did. I wrote zeros and backed up all stuff and only copied over what I needed. I HIGHLY recommend this to any one who is anything but a novice user.

veedubdrew
Feb 26, 2004, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by jettredmont
Lengthy post -> lengthy reply ...


You might want to call Apple tech support about the lag with Expose and the volume/mute/etc keys. I have an old 500MHz TiBook running Panther, and those buttons work very well there (not Expose ... but that's because the graphics card in it is sorely lacking, which shouldn't be the case with your 12" PB). Mention your iPhoto delay problems as well; that may be related.

My 12" PowerBook (1GHz, 512, 40GB, 10.3) responds to the volume/brightness keys at a snail's pace as does my 17" iMac G4 (800MHz, 768, 80GB, 10.3). The volume and brightness generally adjust the instant I hit the keys, then several moments later the image appears on the screen and zooms to the new setting. I don't think it's a hardware problem, I think it's a software issue and I sure hope they fix it. I also hope and pray that window resizing and scrolling smoothness are improved with this update.

As for iPhoto, are you running iLife '04? It's a HUGE improvement in speed for iPhoto. With 2500 pics in the previous version (2.0?) it was basically unusable on my iMac, barely tolerable on my PowerBook. In comparison, iPhoto 4 absolutely flies.

-Drew

waterbug
Feb 26, 2004, 05:48 PM
Originally posted by leenoble
Changing back to Jaguar's implementation of browsing networked volumes or sticking a home on ipod option on the accounts preferences would be an unexpected behaviour change since there is no way to let the average user who just runs the updates know that these changes have been made. [/B]
Except for the ReadMe window that the user must click through before installing any OS update.

Seriously, OS X updates change/fix behavior all the time; other posters have given multiple examples of this.

UI changes are far less dangerous than unanticipated API changes. These are the things that break apps and cause havoc.

I'm all in favor of UI and feature improvements, as long as they're documented. I'm also in favor of people reading the ReadMe information. It's there for a reason! RTFRM!

Makosuke
Feb 26, 2004, 05:52 PM
Originally posted by alandail
what manual? Exactly what I was going to point out--OSX does not, and never has, come with anything printed that amounted to more than a loose overview of the OS. There is no physical manual to outdate, so although they might avoid making GUI changes in.x.x releases, there's certainly no documentation issues stopping them.

And I hope as well that the network issues are big enough to put them in the "worth fixing" category. I'd like to point out, by the way, that it's not that Apple isn't making progress with networking; 10.3, when it works, handles Windows networks much better than 10.2, and the non-modal network dialogues are great.

Unfortunately, it's incredibly inconsistant in the way it displays mounted volumes (connect to server versus browse), the browse command is shaky in cross-platform environments, and the whole browse method just isn't as useful as connect to server's hierarchy was.

Point being, Apple is trying, they just got some stuff wrong with this attempt. Stuff that will, hopefully, be fixed in this update.

And I also agree that 10.3 is MUCH more stable and polished than 10.2; it just has a few more glitches than 10.2.8 did, since that had already been polished for a while.

WM.
Feb 26, 2004, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by shoez
can't see size of file just by clicking on it (tool/taskbar)
Do you mean in the Finder? Are you using the Aqua-styled no-toolbar-or-sidebar view? If yes to both, are you aware of the status bar (in the View menu)?
can't tab to pulldown menus or radio clicks -why??
To clarify what jettredmont said: specifically, you want Full Keyboard Access.
Can't perform undo+redo operations in form boxes in Safari
Yeah, I agree, they should really fix that...
The way safari doesn't seem to cache and page, and when returning to the previous page starts at the top and moves down after other page elements have reloaded

When returning to a page in Safari, starts at the top, manually scroll to a place of your bidding - when it finally finishes reloading the page it jumps back to the original place (linked with bug above)
Agree.
Safari - when you write a long document in a textarea window in one tab, go into another tab and return back, the textarea remains in focus but it scrolls back up to the top (cursor remains at the bottom)
Agree.
too much bloody space wasted with windows - spacing of icons is pretty crap
Agree.

WM

ginoledesma
Feb 26, 2004, 07:08 PM
I'm casting my vote for better Windows file sharing as well. I've worked with Windows for so long I've forgotten how easy AppleTalk file sharing was back then. I did myself the favor of installing Dave, which has made my a life a tad easier.

Honestly speaking, SMB filesharing on the Mac isn't as easy as I'd like it to be. It would be nice to be able to get a list of Windows shares listing the name and description (right now, only the name is listed). In some large networks, the server names are not at all helpful/descriptive, so the remarks section comes in very, very handfily.

I'd appreciate any improvement to the current system. Consistency is key, and so is reliability. As for the argument about not having "upgrades" because of significant/fundamental changes (the Panther manual argument), I don't believe that at all. Back then, Mac OS 8.1 introduced HFS+, and people scampered to get it because of the significant savings on the disk space. So if this update brings in significant ease-of-use to the masses, Apple has no reason whatsoever not to release it. They'll only be shooting themselves in the foot if they make it available as part of a "paid upgrade."

One feature I'd like in relation to SMB networking: please, please, PLEASE allow users to connect to hidden shares. Right now, I have to use the smbclient tool to connect to hidden shares. A textbox asking for the share name will do (or if you want to make it more user-friendly, have an Other... item and then it asks for the share name).

soosy
Feb 26, 2004, 07:53 PM
Originally posted by Stewie
The inability for Panther to add my username and password to the keychain for the windows servers I connect to everyday.

there's a lot of problems with the current state of networking... but I've found a way to get name/passwords to save, that hopefully is a reliable fix.

Use Connect to Server... and format the address like:

smb//domain;username@share.company.com/sharename

You can leave out <domain> and <sharename> but I've found that including your username@ in the address finally got keychain to work!

I've now saved each share as a favorite and I can get to things very quickly.

hope that helps someone.

soosy
Feb 26, 2004, 07:55 PM
Originally posted by JGowan
I'm running a Quicksilver 2002 Dual 1GHz and Mail crashes on me a lot for no reason and EVERYTIME I select an email and try to teach Mail that it is Junk... it will crash 100% of the time. It is so frustrating because one of the best things about Mail is its filtering out the junk, but lately, the spammers are getting smarter and lots more of this stuff is getting through. Without being able to teach Mail what is Junk, I've got to weed through a lot of crap again.

deleting lsmap2 fixed this problem for me.

http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20031207160555107

Hugin777
Feb 26, 2004, 08:13 PM
Originally posted by WM.
Do you mean in the Finder? Are you using the Aqua-styled no-toolbar-or-sidebar view? If yes to both, are you aware of the status bar (in the View menu)?

The file size doesn't show. Only the available space and the number of selected items. - Or am I missins something ?

ralphh
Feb 26, 2004, 09:07 PM
Originally posted by adzoox
I have liked 10.3 - except for mail.

Has anyone else had a problem with 10.3 (all updates applied) and Mail.app?

I hope this update addresses my issue. I send in a bug report some 8 -10 times a day. (Mail_unexpectedly quits) Otherwise Panther is very solid.


Ditto on the Mail instability. My new Powerbook has been totally free of hardware problem signs including kernel panic since I bought it in September. Mail, however, has been crashy since the 10.3.1 update.

But: it only seems to crash after I've retrieved mail over a (very) bad internet connection. I think it may be failed error checking. Could explain how it got past Q&A at Apple and why not that many people are having problems.

fluidinclusion
Feb 26, 2004, 09:31 PM
Originally posted by Photorun
HOPEFULLY they'll fix some printer drivers, my 880 worked great in 10.2, 10.3 WHAM no print control dialogue boxes (ability to print black and white, color, quality), even moved PPDs from my iBook (which is still 10.2) and that made things worse (now my G5 gets confused). Heard this from a few people. Also please put network browsing back the way it used to, what the ******* was Apple thinking (smoking) when they went to you need to know the IP address and you can't just browse the network. STUPID STUPID STUPID!!!

Everything else about 10.3 is great, but these two HUGE step backs are a major inconvenience.


I too had printer problems when I "archived and installed, preserving users" with my HP 1220 C. All I had was the CUPS printer. The default preinstalled NEW driver for the printer that was supposed to come with 10.3 did NOT appear or had problems. I installed the 10.2 driver from the website (which worked fine). After a clean install of 10.3, ALL PRINTING PROBLEMS ARE COMPLETELY SOLVED. I think upgrading to 10.3 is a no no. (A clean Install is the only way to go!) I had no obvious problems, just little annoyances that are 99.9% gone now.

ultrafiel
Feb 26, 2004, 10:20 PM
I've installed Panther on at least 6 powermacs, and while I don't doubt some of you have issues with reliability and stability, I've not had any major problems. However, this may be due to how I set these macs up. I always will start a HD from scratch when installing a major OS release, and will then re-install all applications needed. Yes, this takes some time, a few hours to most of the day depending on which system I'm using, but I think it's worth it. Apply any new updates available, and then repair permissions after.

I did find the new networking in Panther to be more of a pain. In Jaguar I could browse and find all of the windows machines on our network, now I have to manually enter in and save the ip addresses for those machines.

There are some quirks and whatever, but I'm pretty happy with Panther. It doesn't give me as many headaches as Windows in any form. For example, I had to fix two XP machines the other day at work that would load at all. I couldn't even get into safe mode or load from a CD. Well I finally figured out that disconnecting a USB card reader from one solved it, and it loaded fine. The other was easier, as when it hung on not finding the keyboard I knew the batteries were dead. Enough of the rant though.

And for any interested I've found that menumeters and synergy and indispensible add-ons to your system (ok, maybe not synergy from a productive standpoint).

WM.
Feb 27, 2004, 12:52 AM
Originally posted by Hugin777
The file size doesn't show. Only the available space and the number of selected items. - Or am I missins something ?
*head falls on keyboard* D'OH!!! My bad! You're right, of course. The status bar only shows the number of items and the available space on disk.

I guess we should start requesting that file size show up when you "show item info" in View Options in icon view. I never really thought of this as a problem, since I don't use the Finder much and when I do it's in column view, but it seems like this would be a nice improvement. http://www.apple.com/macosx/feedback, everybody!

Sorry for the confusion
WM

P.S. Dane power!! :D I'm only 1/8 Danish, but it's the 1/8 that gave me my last name, and two years ago I went to Vordingborg (as well as Copenhagen and Roskilde), where my great-grandfather was born...

I really enjoyed that trip--seems like quite a nice country you've got there. :) I think my dad got a little tired of Carlsberg being the only draft beer (in most places) after a while, though. :)

mbotta
Feb 27, 2004, 02:57 AM
(deleted)

Hugin777
Feb 27, 2004, 05:56 AM
One gripe of mine that I haven't seen mentioned here, is that the zoom button doesn't work in the Finder (since the scrollbars come and go on demand). If I zoom a folder window to make it as compact as possible, I always get a vertical scrollbar because the window is a few pixels too tall :-(


Originally posted by WM.
P.S. Dane power!! :D I'm only 1/8 Danish, but it's the 1/8 that gave me my last name [..] seems like quite a nice country you've got there. :)

Yup. Quite a nice country :) Cheers to all fellow Danes ;-)

stid
Feb 27, 2004, 07:20 AM
There is another bugs in OSX 10.3 related to Quartz. Some application like Cubase SX 2 have interface element that aren't redraw correctly.

The developer at Cubase Forum said that the new OSX update will "probably" fix this problem.

Also other applications that use some feature of quartz are affected by the same problem.

vollspacken
Feb 27, 2004, 02:09 PM
gimme more VPN options and features!!!

uhm, just gimme all the VPN features that XP has so I can finally connect to my university network!!!

aaaaargh, this is killing me!!!

vSpacken

digitalbiker
Feb 27, 2004, 04:07 PM
I second the more VPN options request. I can't get my OS X machines to play nice with my VPN router. A big part of the problem is a lack of control on various settings and XP has many more varriables that you can set than the OSX equivalent.

Brad Oliver
Feb 27, 2004, 06:53 PM
Originally posted by Ge4-ce
I don't say it isn't a good OS, it rocks! especially with the new features, but it has cost me and a lot of other people a lot of years of our lives the last 4 months! All because of the OPenGL problem

I do a lot of OpenGL programming, but I'm afraid I don't know what you're referring to here. What did 10.3 break with OpenGL that is causing people so much grief?

12lemon
Feb 28, 2004, 12:57 AM
Anyone know if they are going to update the way permissions are assigned?

kingtj
Feb 28, 2004, 10:51 AM
I've run into pretty much all of these issues, too - and it's frustrating. (Not to mention, another problem where sometimes, if applications have references in their "recently used files" lists to items on currently unavailable network shares, the apps will freeze up. My ex-boss just went through a week of uninstalling/reinstalling/deleting preferences/pulling out hair to figure out why Appleworks 6 kept crashing upon launch on his iBook, only to find out it was this issue.)

I'm wondering though, has anyone tries using the "Dave 5.0" software from Thursby under Panther? It says it's both MacOS and OS X compatible. I know it's supposed to enhance functionality in OS X for more complex Windows environments with domain controllers and complex security permission structures in place, but does it fix any of these basic networking problems too?



Originally posted by Stewie
The inability for Panther to add my username and password to the keychain for the windows servers I connect to everyday.

The sometime strage problem of not prompting for a username and password on a windows share and then telling me that the username and password is not correct.

Finder Crashing when trying to view a windows share

Finder refusing to disconnect a windows share, claiming it is still in use.

Other apple servers not showing up under network view

I could go on.

AppleMatt
Feb 28, 2004, 10:55 AM
:D

Some may remember in the thread about the last build I asked if anyone knew whether Apple had addressed application launch time problems brought with the 10.3.2 update.

In the seednote for this build, they have asked to investigate application launch times

:D

AppleMatt (happy)

SoGood
Mar 1, 2004, 09:57 PM
So the question now is, where is 10.3.3 updater? Next 24 hours?

sphereboy
Mar 2, 2004, 03:37 PM
To clarify what jettredmont said: specifically, you want Full Keyboard Access.



this is the best tip i've seen in a few weeks! thanks, i've always wondered why i couldn't tab to dropdown menus or radio button. I love this forum! MAC RULEZ!

Surfernate
Mar 2, 2004, 08:39 PM
Agreed. Trying to make my Powerbook talk to other computers on the Windows network at work is a pain in the ass. I'd really love a way to create network shortcuts -- for example, there are network shares that I access all the time, and it'd be nice not to have to navigate to them everytime. I'd like the ability to put a shortcut on my desktop, and so far, I haven't found one. Making an alias to it does not work...

A trick I learned (discovered) is to add each server to your startup items(preferenecs>accounts>start up items). When you start up if they are available they mount on your desktop (after requesting your UN/PW if required). You have to manually mount each server (at least that's the way it worked for me) and then simply drag them to your startup items. If you login when off the windows network they just don't mount - no error messages or anything.

oh yeah look up a little dockling called prefling it's great.

MacBandit
Mar 3, 2004, 12:41 AM
A trick I learned (discovered) is to add each server to your startup items(preferenecs>accounts>start up items). When you start up if they are available they mount on your desktop (after requesting your UN/PW if required). You have to manually mount each server (at least that's the way it worked for me) and then simply drag them to your startup items. If you login when off the windows network they just don't mount - no error messages or anything.

oh yeah look up a little dockling called prefling it's great.

Sometimes you can manually enter the address of the server you are trying to connect to into the Connect to Server window. You can then click the plus button to add them permanently to the list. I know I have done this for my LAN here at home in the past but haven't had the need since figuring out how to get Appleshare working correctly I can then just click on networking in the sidebar of the finder windows and my computers with Appleshare on the LAN just show up automatically.