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arn
Jun 10, 2002, 01:53 AM
CNet reports (http://news.com.com/2100-1040-934349.html?tag=fd_top) on Apple's new Ad Campaign which is to be run in Time, Newsweek as well as television spots:

In the largest marketing effort for Apple since its "Think Different" campaign, Apple is planning a series of TV and print ads featuring people who have switched from a PC to a Mac telling their story.

The "Real People" ads, which will start appearing this week, are directed by documentary filmmaker Errol Morris, director of "The Thin Blue Line."


The first hints of this new ad campaign came from Harry Knowles (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2002/05/20020507222255.shtml) on May 7, 2002.

AmbitiousLemon
Jun 10, 2002, 01:55 AM
this is really exciting and is EXACTLY what apple needs to be doing.

Rower_CPU
Jun 10, 2002, 01:59 AM
I can't wait to see 'em in action. They sound like a good mix between the celebrity product endorsements and the (in)famous commercials like "Middle Seat" and "Elope".

Hopefully they get some good timeslots.:)

Beej
Jun 10, 2002, 02:20 AM
Sounds like Apple is actively persuing that 10% Steve-o was talking about.

I just hope the ads aren't lame like ads of this sort often are... but it's Apple, so I'm sure they'll be good.

Gus
Jun 10, 2002, 02:57 AM
As long as Mr. Morris' ads move along faster than his movies. Man, I like dramas/war movies/and such, but man that movie went on forever!

Gus

deejemon
Jun 10, 2002, 03:09 AM
*

Rower_CPU
Jun 10, 2002, 03:11 AM
Originally posted by Gus
As long as Mr. Morris' ads move along faster than his movies. Man, I like dramas/war movies/and such, but man that movie went on forever!

Gus

Terrence Malick directed "The Thin Red Line" you're referring to. It's one of my favorite movies.

Errol Morris directs documentaries, one of which is titled "Thin Blue Line", hence the confusion.

Foocha
Jun 10, 2002, 03:20 AM
Apple needs to take care with this strategy - I agree it could work out well, but it's not without risk.

It seems like Apple's marketing strategy over the past few years has been to play down the difference between Mac & PC - they have never majored on OS X in their mainstream ads, and until recently they've avoided all talk of Macs being better than Windows for fear of consumers responding: "you mean it can't run Windows?!"

I think Apple hoped that people would be sold on the nice looks of the machine, get it home and after some innitial confusion with the different system, soon grow to love it for what it is, and appreciate the unique Mac user experience.

Unless they play it exactly right, majoring on the difference between and Windows & Mac system could backfire on Apple.

christof
Jun 10, 2002, 03:23 AM
Man...

Am I excited! I'm really looking forward to these ads, and as was said, this is exactly what Apple needs to do.

While I'm glad that Apple is really beginning their hunt to convert the unconverted, I worry... Why exactly are "so many" Apple execs selling stock? I know that I want to stay put; however, I wonder what's really going on...

"Christof"

-----
Surgeon General's Warning: Rumors about Apple can be hazardous to your health. Read responsibly.

j763
Jun 10, 2002, 03:40 AM
Can't Wait!!!!!!



Oh yeah, that's right, down here we wont be able to see them... stupid apple australia :mad:

ponyboy
Jun 10, 2002, 05:06 AM
good for Apple!!! Its about time. I just got done explaining to a friend, who would love to buy an ibook for its looks that yes she can send email on a Mac and it even has Word! Send email! I thought she was kidding but no she actually thought that...

Go to it apple

britboy
Jun 10, 2002, 05:10 AM
Originally posted by Foocha

It seems like Apple's marketing strategy over the past few years has been to play down the difference between Mac & PC - they have never majored on OS X in their mainstream ads, and until recently they've avoided all talk of Macs being better than Windows for fear of consumers responding: "you mean it can't run Windows?!"

Unless they play it exactly right, majoring on the difference between and Windows & Mac system could backfire on Apple.

So perhaps some of the adverts will feature people explaining how they use VPC, to cover all their needs. When people start to realise that they can run their beloved windows on a mac, they might not be so sceptical.

It could work. I hope it does, because this sounds like exactly the right move from apple.

Beej
Jun 10, 2002, 05:19 AM
Originally posted by j763
Can't Wait!!!!!!

Oh yeah, that's right, down here we wont be able to see them... stupid apple australia :mad: In defense of Apple Aus (which isn't somehting I do often) they have been playing a lot of iMac ads in prime-time over the last two weeks.

AmbitiousLemon
Jun 10, 2002, 05:22 AM
Originally posted by Foocha
I think Apple hoped that people would be sold on the nice looks of the machine, get it home and after some innitial confusion with the different system, soon grow to love it for what it is, and appreciate the unique Mac user experience.

i disagree. i do not think this has been apple's stratedgy at all. apple has flaunted their differences (think different). in fact they did so well at making everyone understand that theyw ere different that it scared many people off.

this campaign will likley undo the damage of all that thinking different. it will finally show why thinking different is thinking better.

AmbitiousLemon
Jun 10, 2002, 05:29 AM
(double postolicious)

some quotes that might raise some eyebrows of thsoe who couldnt click a link to save their lives let alone to read an article (you know who you are ;) ;) )

Customers will be able to bring in their Windows-based PC to an Apple store and a worker at Apple's "genius bar" will help transfer the files to a Mac, Jobs said.

Jobs said the people in Apple's ads are representative of some 10,000 letters and e-mails from PC users. The company has also been using its Web site to solicit the opinions of both those that have switched to a Mac as well as those that were considering such a move.

Apple's ads feature a cross section of Windows switchers, from a college student who bought a PC because her parents made her to Aaron Adams, a Windows network administrator that bought a Mac for his home.

Apple's ads, which will run in Time and Newsweek as well as cable and network television, will point to a part of Apple's Web site that will be devoted to giving information to would-be Mac converts.

In the television ads, the actual Mac owner explains why they gave up the PC. Jobs said the ads are unlike any other, featuring people speaking in their own words without any sets or props. "They're real people," Jobs said. "We didn't tell them what to say."

The eight people were filmed using Morris' special camera, the Interrotron, which uses mirrors to allow interview subjects to appear that they are looking at the interviewer when in fact they are facing the camera.

want more? read the darn thing already ! :)

linky linky :) (http://news.com.com/2100-1040-934349.html?tag=fd_top)

blakespot
Jun 10, 2002, 06:00 AM
This is indeed exactly what Apple needs. I am excited to see it coming together like this. (Also heard a rumors that the iCards tab on Apple's site will be repalced with a tab dealing with this new PR effort.)

Errol Morris also directed A Brief History of Time (http://errolmor.phpwebhosting.com/films.php?film_id=3&info_id=20), an excellent documentary about the life and discoveries of modern-day hero Stephen Hawking.

More info about Errol Morris --> here (http://www.salon.com/people/feature/2000/01/29/morris/).



blakespot

britboy
Jun 10, 2002, 06:18 AM
Originally posted by blakespot
This is indeed exactly what Apple needs. I am excited to see it coming together like this. (Also heard a rumors that the iCards tab on Apple's site will be repalced with a tab dealing with this new PR effort.)

Errol Morris also directed A Brief History of Time (http://errolmor.phpwebhosting.com/films.php?film_id=3&info_id=20), an excellent documentary about the life and discoveries of modern-day hero Stephen Hawking.

blakespot


That documentary of Hawking was brilliant. If Morris can capture some of the genuineness of that documentary, apple are onto a winner here.

Mr. Anderson
Jun 10, 2002, 07:12 AM
I remember the oringinal article run on Morris and getting jazzed about the idea of new ads. Its nice to see that the turn around was quite fast. Looking forward to see them.

http://www.macrumors.com/forums/showthread.php3?threadid=4796

Foocha
Jun 10, 2002, 07:17 AM
Fair point about "Think Different," athough I think they never spelt out in their ads that not only did the hardware look different, but the OS was different as well.

Perhaps this is an area where the US & UK markets differ - as I understand, in the US people are more familiar with what a Mac actually is, in part because of its high penetration in schools. In the UK, the Mac has less market share and tends to only be used in design, publishing & video editing. As a result I think your average man on the street has less understanding of what a Mac is. As such, most Brits tend to assume Macs run Windows.

So on the UK, running a campaign stating that the Mac is better than Windows could be raising an issue that average consumers were not even aware of!

sluthy
Jun 10, 2002, 07:45 AM
Originally posted by Beej
In defense of Apple Aus (which isn't somehting I do often) they have been playing a lot of iMac ads in prime-time over the last two weeks.

I have never seen an Apple ad on free TV. Never.

One ad for iTunes 1 on Fox 8 on Austar. That's it.

Geert
Jun 10, 2002, 07:57 AM
Apple ads are now online at Apple's hompage.
check it out!!!!

teabgs
Jun 10, 2002, 07:59 AM
Originally posted by ponyboy
I just got done explaining to a friend, who would love to buy an ibook for its looks that yes she can send email on a Mac and it even has Word! Send email! I thought she was kidding but no she actually thought that...

Go to it apple

Thats how I got my cousin to get the new iMac instead of a toshiba....:confused:

Oh man, *sigh*. I went to her house yesterday to teach her all about it....she was gonna get the toshiba so that it would be "compatible" with her friends' computers....you know, cause she NEEDS AOL and Word...which don't run on a mac?:rolleyes:

These ads will be good...lack of knowledge is what keeps people back.

Rocketman
Jun 10, 2002, 08:11 AM
http://www.apple.com/switch/

:D

Rocketman
Jun 10, 2002, 08:20 AM
Originally posted by Rocketman
http://www.apple.com/switch/

:D

http://www.apple.com/switch/ads/damonwright.html

blakespot
Jun 10, 2002, 08:21 AM
Originally posted by blakespot
(Also heard a rumors that the iCards tab on Apple's site will be repalced with a tab dealing with this new PR effort.)


I see that rumor was correct.



blakespot

Mr. Anderson
Jun 10, 2002, 08:37 AM
Even on the main page. The only thing about it, it seems almost like an AA thing. What are the 12 steps for converting to an Apple....

Backtothemac
Jun 10, 2002, 08:53 AM
This is perfect. Really it is. This is what Apple needs. Show the ordinary person how they can come over to the Mac without the pain that they think that they would. This will open many a door, especially if they pull off the ads as being genuine and real.

skippee
Jun 10, 2002, 08:55 AM
Originally posted by teabgs



These ads will be good...lack of knowledge is what keeps people back.

I agree... I think they'll be a great tool to inform the general (Wintel) public that everything 99% of people do on a PC, they can do (easier) on a Mac.

For the first time ever, I've been actively trying to convert some of my die hard Windows friends. (As opposed to just making cracks about how much Windows sucks) And I think it's actually working.

Moxiemike
Jun 10, 2002, 09:56 AM
is about the only thing these ads could benefit from. Other than that, they're pretty awesome.

Anyone like Liza Richardson (the DJ girlie) could be the Apple Computer Pin-Up girl?

:)

peterjhill
Jun 10, 2002, 10:31 AM
I think that it is hilarious that the harry knowles ad did not show up. Steve is probably sticking it to him for letting the cat out of the bag, a la ati.

ryan
Jun 10, 2002, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by Moxiemike
is about the only thing these ads could benefit from. Other than that, they're pretty awesome.

Anyone like Liza Richardson (the DJ girlie) could be the Apple Computer Pin-Up girl?

:)
She is attractive, and not in that "I'm attractive and am going to use my looks for evil" sort of way.

Gus
Jun 10, 2002, 10:48 AM
Rower_CPU-I stand embarassangly corrected. Don't know what I was thinkin', but no more posts at 3:00 in the morning for me.

Gus

Rower_CPU
Jun 10, 2002, 10:49 AM
Originally posted by peterjhill
I think that it is hilarious that the harry knowles ad did not show up. Steve is probably sticking it to him for letting the cat out of the bag, a la ati.

I'm sure they have tons of these stored away, and they just felt these 8 were the best to start out with.

They are more "regular" people than he...but we may see him eventually.

I just want to say that I think they are great, and I can't wait to see them on TV.:D

[edit: Gus, don't worry about it...lack of sleep makes us do strange things sometimes.:) ]

jamesbhai
Jun 10, 2002, 11:39 AM
THIS is what apple has needed. perhaps they've been building. everyone knows they are different, so now they attack the myth that they are incompatible. it dispels the myth enough for another 10% to try the mac and half of those stick, mission accomplished.

just don't use vpc as a part of the strategy. it's backward thinking. make people realize they can use the OS for everything they really need. vpc is a crutch that takes away from the very purpose of the mac os. use only in case of emergency.

skippee
Jun 10, 2002, 11:46 AM
Originally posted by ryan

She is attractive, and not in that "I'm attractive and am going to use my looks for evil" sort of way.

Anyone notice how she was the only person in any of the ads with a full body shot? Everyone else is shown pretty much waist up.

Blackcat
Jun 10, 2002, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by Foocha
So on the UK, running a campaign stating that the Mac is better than Windows could be raising an issue that average consumers were not even aware of!

Trouble is, in the UK these ads will be against ASA/ITC rules as they criticise a 3rd party (Windows).

:(

rainman::|:|
Jun 10, 2002, 12:27 PM
'Bout frigging time, i say! i was beginning to think Apple forgot about the wonders of PR...

i hope they really do this well--

i see they're still using that ugly sans-serif font. blah on that. but everything else is cool :)

pnw

eunuchs
Jun 10, 2002, 12:30 PM
Originally posted by Blackcat
Trouble is, in the UK these ads will be against ASA/ITC rules as they criticise a 3rd party (Windows).

Is it still considered criticism if [list=a]
These are real people, not actors?
Everything they say is true?
[/list=a]

I mean, it's not so much that they are deriding Windows as pointing out the fact that it DOES crash all the time and it IS clunky. ;)

Mr. Anderson
Jun 10, 2002, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by Blackcat


Trouble is, in the UK these ads will be against ASA/ITC rules as they criticise a 3rd party (Windows).

:(

So how would you make the comparison without mentioning Windows? I don't think you could do that effictively and still get the point across the same way. Sure you could say Macs are the best computer ever, but then you start sounding like an infomercial....but wait, there's more!

Blackcat
Jun 10, 2002, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by eunuchs


Is it still considered criticism if [list=a]
These are real people, not actors?
Everything they say is true?
[/list=a]

I mean, it's not so much that they are deriding Windows as pointing out the fact that it DOES crash all the time and it IS clunky. ;)

Ridiculous isn't it? But here you can only say how good your product is, not how much better it is than xyz.

But its perfectly legal for Intel ads to claim a P4 improves your systems audio or graphics capabilities, despite the fact that a 2.3Ghz P4 with EGA card and no Soundblaster won't even run Windows95!

UK media regulation is twisted...

lou tsee
Jun 10, 2002, 12:59 PM
same thing in the rest of europe (I believe).
wouldn't be possible to play the ads here in switzerland
because they definately downplay a competing product...

and I think they aim at the average american anyway ;)
(wich is goood!!)

Grokgod
Jun 10, 2002, 01:10 PM
One of the guys in ad says the WINTEL, and its not really with affection.

I loved it.
A lot of people have been talking about how APPLE has to get OSX into the picture. Now that they have in a sideways manner.
I am curious to see what effect it will have.

Its still focused on APPLE which is now OSX. They do mention OS10 once. Which I am finally starting to understand is "X" pronounced with the roman numeral in mind.
I finally see the purpose of this when I consider the WinXP and Athalon XP and the blah blah X.

Wintel, never heard it said outloud before,, HAH :P

Moxiemike
Jun 10, 2002, 01:12 PM
Yea. You're right... she doesn't look like a "I know I'm hot" chick. Really accessible. What one might expect from Mac Users. :) Lack of pretension. :) heehee.

She reminds me of Sara from CSI.... similar type of sexiness going on. Do we have a new geek pin up girl? And she's representing Apple. Whee!

And yea... kinda interesting that they only showed a whole body shot of her.... but then again, it shows how Apple is playing to strengths. They SO knew geeks like me would so love it... and send the ads to all of my geek friends who now think they can get girls like that by using a Powerbook.

Someday i'll tell the "tibooks in a wireless cafe" story that including the pick up line "I can get you a static IP baby".

one of my shining moments. heh

eyelikeart
Jun 10, 2002, 01:17 PM
I like the new ads a lot...

good to see "real" people who are attesting that their switch from PeeCee to Mac was very easy...:D

cr2sh
Jun 10, 2002, 02:02 PM
OMG, these things are hilarious...
the opening images of these people (first frame) are not attractive at all though.. VERY funny stuff...

oh, and the dj girl is hot, but its because she uses a mac...
-c

Royal Pineapple
Jun 10, 2002, 03:01 PM
Originally posted by Blackcat


Trouble is, in the UK these ads will be against ASA/ITC rules as they criticise a 3rd party (Windows).

:(
some of the people like Sarah Whistler never mention windoze in the whole thing, all she sais is she is glad that she switched from aq pc to a mac, and since PC isnt a regesterd trademark she isnt critisizing any other company. i suspect apple has more of this type for use overseas.
-royal

nerveosu
Jun 10, 2002, 03:33 PM
I don't think this is such a good idea. Especially putting the pcs in the stores. I would think is would be a legit reason (not an antitrust issue) for microsoft to stop making mac software.

eunuchs
Jun 10, 2002, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by nerveosu
I don't think this is such a good idea. Especially putting the pcs in the stores. I would think is would be a legit reason (not an antitrust issue) for microsoft to stop making mac software.

Microsoft's MacBU makes them a boatload of money. Conversely, while they do also make mountains of money from OEM sales of Windows, I don't think they're going to sweat the loss of OEM licenses of Windows when those same losses will probably translate directly into the much more expensive retail licenses of Office:x...

Either way, Microsoft wins.

robbyd
Jun 10, 2002, 03:46 PM
i have noticed while watching MTV that they use macs, apple should try to appeal to the teenage audience by having ads on MTV and attracting younger potential buyers...

iwantanewmac
Jun 10, 2002, 04:14 PM
LOL!
U guys paid attention to those new ad opening shots in quickime on the apple site?
Especially the Demon wright shot. freeze it on the first frame. lol
man what a goofball.
That liza richardson isnt a looker eiter when yuo look it that way.
apple should be more carefull when posting them that way. haha
:)

Blackcat
Jun 10, 2002, 04:16 PM
Originally posted by eunuchs


Microsoft's MacBU makes them a boatload of money. Conversely, while they do also make mountains of money from OEM sales of Windows, I don't think they're going to sweat the loss of OEM licenses of Windows when those same losses will probably translate directly into the much more expensive retail licenses of Office:x...

Either way, Microsoft wins.

That's a really good point! XP OEM must only pull in $200 a throw max, then the user copies OfficeXP off their friends :p but Office v.X is about $400. So every Windows loss is a $200 gain :D

Okay its not that simple but I'm pretty sure MS knows Apple is an asset not an enemy. The anti-trust trial is proving if nothing else that Windows isn't invulnerable and a hell of a lot of people know it. .NET is falling apart, the new licensing is highly unpopular, and Xbox isn't catching on. Apple offers hassle free customers for MS, which must be quite nice.

Inhale420
Jun 10, 2002, 04:16 PM
you might not believe it, but i use macs and i like them. i'm also a pc user and these are probably the most ridiculous commercials i've ever seen.

from the looks of the actors, it seems apple thinks that pc users are all white, confused 20 somethings who will switch over right away after being insulted by these commercials.

i actually feel embarassed for apple.

Backtothemac
Jun 10, 2002, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by Inhale420
you might not believe it, but i use macs and i like them. i'm also a pc user and these are probably the most ridiculous commercials i've ever seen.

from the looks of the actors, it seems apple thinks that pc users are all white, confused 20 somethings who will switch over right away after being insulted by these commercials.

i actually feel embarassed for apple.

No, I don't believe that you like Macs, nor own one. Why? Because I have never, not one time ever heard you say one nice thing about Apple. Everytime there is an annoucement you come here and start flapping off at the mouth like some clone. Look, you want to have credibility, then every once in a while say something nice. It really isn't that hard.

Rower_CPU
Jun 10, 2002, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by Inhale420
you might not believe it, but i use macs and i like them. i'm also a pc user and these are probably the most ridiculous commercials i've ever seen.

from the looks of the actors, it seems apple thinks that pc users are all white, confused 20 somethings who will switch over right away after being insulted by these commercials.

i actually feel embarassed for apple.

Actually they're not actors...:rolleyes:

Moxiemike
Jun 10, 2002, 04:22 PM
Originally posted by Inhale420
you might not believe it, but i use macs and i like them. i'm also a pc user and these are probably the most ridiculous commercials i've ever seen.

from the looks of the actors, it seems apple thinks that pc users are all white, confused 20 somethings who will switch over right away after being insulted by these commercials.

i actually feel embarassed for apple.

Funny. Two of my PC computer programming buds saw the commercials, poked around on Apple's web site, emailed me a bunch of questions and one ordered a tiBook and the other ordered an iMac. Hmmm. They MUST be working....

m

ponyboy
Jun 10, 2002, 04:26 PM
A whole new tab tittled switch I love it!!!!!

cr2sh
Jun 10, 2002, 04:30 PM
Originally posted by iwantanewmac
LOL!
U guys paid attention to those new ad opening shots in quickime on the apple site?
Especially the Demon wright shot. freeze it on the first frame. lol
man what a goofball.
That liza richardson isnt a looker eiter when yuo look it that way.
apple should be more carefull when posting them that way. haha
:)

i commented on that earlier, but im not sure, the common man/women isnt hot either. it might be an error or overly clever and detailed marketing, who knows... but if theyre trying to sell to joe and jane masses, then maybe taking unattractive normal looking people is a good first step...
*shrug*
-c

cr2sh
Jun 10, 2002, 04:40 PM
Originally posted by Inhale420
you might not believe it, but i use macs and i like them. i'm also a pc user and these are probably the most ridiculous commercials i've ever seen.

from the looks of the actors, it seems apple thinks that pc users are all white, confused 20 somethings who will switch over right away after being insulted by these commercials.

i actually feel embarassed for apple.

a pot smoking wintel zombie doesnt understand the concept of a televsion commercial... thats a goddamn punchline.

i sat down and used osX for a few hours and ill never go back to a pc. I am proof, right here baby, that the conversion is a piece of cake and it does happen. you might be running os9 or you might be too baked to register valid thoughts, who knows...

the apple point of view is one of innovation.. its partly missionary though also. these commercials point that out - if nothing else, those who use these computers are the evidence.
how can you BELIEVE in a computer that you cant even trust to operate? people are sick of using those horrible, horrible machines. you spend 5+ hours a day on one, it better be a pleasant experience.. and its not for wintel folks. if you can show them that there is no fear/pain in the transfortation your job is almost done...

Royal Pineapple
Jun 10, 2002, 05:24 PM
i am on the other end of the spectrum, i was rased on a mac and have never owned a pc, i remember when there was a time where my father's in home office contained not one but five top of the line macintoshes and not one PC (thoes were the days) now i am forced to use a PC at school and i cant stand it, i use my iBook most of the time for school stuff. i have converted two of my friends to buying an apple, one got a TiBook and the other an iBook 700mhz. now that apple is thying to appeal to the PC market i hope to see more people make the wise decision and switch.
-royal

dongmin
Jun 10, 2002, 05:35 PM
Originally posted by Inhale420
you might not believe it, but i use macs and i like them. i'm also a pc user and these are probably the most ridiculous commercials i've ever seen.

from the looks of the actors, it seems apple thinks that pc users are all white, confused 20 somethings who will switch over right away after being insulted by these commercials.

i actually feel embarassed for apple.

I guess if you like PCs, then you might be offended or embarrased or whatever. But the point of the whole campaign is to convert the less-entrenched PC user, the fence seaters. People who don't necessarily like using PCs but have felt compelled to for one reason or another. For that demographic, I think the ads are right on.

Speaking purely hypothetically here, if there are 7% such users out there and Apple is able to convert half of them, then Apple doubles its market share.

quanta
Jun 10, 2002, 05:36 PM
i thought that the website did a good job of presenting the information in a knowlegable and non-condescending way. For people who know little about the standards and details, it was made clear that the Mac is going to have everything they're used to and more....

i was a little surprised that they went so far as to mention game titles.... obviously this campaign isn't aimed at the hard core gamers... but at least we can play the Sims....

carta
Jun 10, 2002, 05:48 PM
I ran through all of the Quicktimes with two kids watching on. After the second ad, they began betting if the next person in the next testimonial would be ugly or handsome. (Ugly won most often--but hey, these are 3rd and 4th graders).

The one really good feature of the campaign is that several testimonials say that the OS doesn't crash. That's a major theme, I think. And that's my experience since converting from OS 9 back in late January. After repartitioning my hard drive into 9 and X partitions, no OS failures. That's a priceless advantage over Wintel if your livelihood depends on a computer.

Rocketman
Jun 10, 2002, 06:26 PM
Originally posted by Inhale420
you might not believe it, but i use macs and i like them. i'm also a pc user and these are probably the most ridiculous commercials i've ever seen.

from the looks of the actors, it seems apple thinks that pc users are all white, confused 20 somethings who will switch over right away after being insulted by these commercials.

i actually feel embarassed for apple.

I agree this ad is consistent with their normal marketing of white background, simple image, young artictic professionals.

It seems to me they need fat white guys to buy these too and those low level minions at telemarketing companies, wherehousing, accounting, administration, etc. The truly working class who happen to use computers to make their employers far more money with less labor and less costly labor.

Rocketman.

theranch
Jun 10, 2002, 07:10 PM
I was just watching the start of the Stanley Cup Playoffs on ABC at 8pm est and they played the Aaron Adams ad.
http://www.apple.com/switch/ads/aaronadams.html

Very nice!

OK...saw another at 8:30 so Apple must really be spending the ad money on this campaign. The ads look great on TV.

Rower_CPU
Jun 10, 2002, 08:34 PM
Just saw the Sarah Whistler ad on TechTV...yeah!!!:D

What makes it even better is that they're running a story on Dell...;)

bretm
Jun 10, 2002, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by Inhale420
you might not believe it, but i use macs and i like them. i'm also a pc user and these are probably the most ridiculous commercials i've ever seen.

from the looks of the actors, it seems apple thinks that pc users are all white, confused 20 somethings who will switch over right away after being insulted by these commercials.

i actually feel embarassed for apple.

First, they're not actors. These are actual people who were not told what to say. It's quite obvious in how they had to hack the pieces up to get coherent statements. That's real. That's how unscripted people talk.

No doubt they were simply asked questions like "what made you switch" and "what's your favorite thing about mac" etc etc just to start them talking.

And what's with your age demographic comment? Most the people came off as early 30s professionals and some late 30s-mid 40s thrown in there too. Not to mention the one dude that could possibly be 50s.

I'll concede that they really should have worked harder to get a broader mix of races. My guess is that they interviewed quite a number of all types of people and when it came down to picking 8, they wanted the best 8 in the different categories of messages and those were them.

Being in corporate video editing, it sometimes happens this way and looks like it was done purposefully, but if anything it's quite the opposite. If they had been thinking about it, they probably would have gone the other direction and ended up with only half whites. But you're right, someone should have pointed this out so that they didn't exclude any demographic.

On the age thing, I think they're hitting the easily converted. You can't get my grandma to TRY a computer. And you can't get my dad to switch computers. Grandma is afraid, and dad is retired or close to it and just doesn't need the hassle. The folks staring 30 more years in the face of working with wintel are the ones looking for a better way.

my .02

bretm
Jun 10, 2002, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by Blackcat


That's a really good point! XP OEM must only pull in $200 a throw max, then the user copies OfficeXP off their friends :p but Office v.X is about $400. So every Windows loss is a $200 gain :D

Okay its not that simple but I'm pretty sure MS knows Apple is an asset not an enemy. The anti-trust trial is proving if nothing else that Windows isn't invulnerable and a hell of a lot of people know it. .NET is falling apart, the new licensing is highly unpopular, and Xbox isn't catching on. Apple offers hassle free customers for MS, which must be quite nice.

I LOVE how people are talking about xbox. They say things like "It's definitely the better more powerful system" (compared to ps2) but then say things like "but all the best games are for playstation."

Man that gives me a smile. How long have I heard the mac talked about the same way? "yeah, mac is definitely a better sytem and it's easier, but there's no software for it."

Bite me MS.

Choppaface
Jun 10, 2002, 09:18 PM
Originally posted by Inhale420
i actually feel embarassed for apple.

me too. apple shouldn't be adding flame to this fire....can't wait till the reg eats this one up for breakfast though :D

Cappy
Jun 10, 2002, 10:33 PM
I've gotta throw in my 2 cents. :)

I like them. They get the point across and they're very informal, personal, and eyecatching.

I do wish Apple could lower their prices a tad though. I think that still hurts them more than anything. I've met lots of Wintel owners who said that they considered a Mac until they saw the price.

Maybe Apple just needs more ads that talk about the BSOD and add virus issues into it. Spread fear throughout the world. ;)

beatle888
Jun 10, 2002, 11:06 PM
"from the looks of the actors, it seems apple thinks that pc users are all white, confused 20 somethings who will switch over right away after being insulted by these commercials. " (quote)




there not actor's and it's in there own words.

i wonder what else you said that wasn't fact.



:confused:

beatle888
Jun 10, 2002, 11:11 PM
Mark Frauenfelder ended his “bad relationship”
with a PC last year and bought a Mac.:D

beatle888
Jun 10, 2002, 11:13 PM
Sarah Whistler gave up her “horrid little”
PC for a friendly and reliable Mac.:D

DakotaGuy
Jun 10, 2002, 11:22 PM
My take on this...

First off if you Inhale at 420 then you are too deep in the weed to even know what sort of computer you are using and since they say that pot makes everything seem better then it is, maybe your PC seems like a Mac to you.

Next, these are not actors, so I don't think Apple really cared if they were the hottest thing around. Leave the hot dudes and gals to Abercrombie&Fitch. Remember we are not selling underwear here, we are selling a computer.

I think that they probably should have worked on more ethnic backgrounds, but I think this is probably just the first go around on these ads and if they work we will see another series of ads with different people. Maybe then we will get a hot stud or a gorgeous chick and/or people of a different race or ethnic background.

This all plays out wonderful. They have the new eMac and the upgraded iBook which both for the price will really appeal to new converting consumers, not to mention the already popular iMac flat-panel. I wish Apple good luck with this and I think it will pay off. I know that some pro users, like a lot of you are upset because Apple has focused a lot more on the e/iMac and iBook lines as of late, but this is where market share can be gained. Don't worry your day will be coming and the more consumer models they can ship, the more $$$ to get you guys that G5!!!

billiam0878
Jun 10, 2002, 11:45 PM
I like them. Short, direct, informative & personal. While I would have liked it if they interviewed someone who mentioned Apple's iApps, I think this is a great step in the right direction. Go Apple!

Bill

madamimadam
Jun 11, 2002, 12:19 AM
I think Apple is doing a great job at pushing their product to the little people. SO many people that pass by my door and see what we have in the warehouse (usually delivery men) look in desire. Most of them thought Apple went under and one of the biggest questions is "can you go on the internet with that?"

This is the start of Apple's new direction marketing to the people who really matter at this point, the regular Joes.

Grokgod
Jun 11, 2002, 01:37 AM
Apple has decided to bring what has been on the sidelines into the light.
The OS battle, is one that apple CAN win.
People talking about what a hassle Wintel is!
Everyone knows this in the Mac world and everyone that is really into computers knows about BSOD etc.

But for the average person that still thinks that he cant type on word on a mac.
These ads are directed at him. The whole campaign is to raise the bar in understanding and information to enable people to switch.

Bringing the focus to how to get your files to your new mac.
How to get the apps you want and working ETC....

These arent actors, these are obviously real people.
If you dont realize this then you need to get out more!

As for how these people look, its a sad commentary on our society when that is the focus, whatever the age of the viewer.
This isnt a silly jeans ad or a phone ad or any ad where models and hired guns display themselves to create the illusion of sexuality to transfer upon a product brand.

Mac's make the users sexy! L:)
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I think everyone looked healthy and good!
Although I have my personal favorites..:)
This is directed at real people, I dont use the words regular joes cause that means nothing to me. I am saying that they are REAL people not Models or Actors.


What I am amazed and still pleased about is that APPLE has the balls to be so outright about what mac users say constantly.
Now after the switch these are mac users, so its still Mac users talking about macs! But they have defected from the PC camp so their former PC friends may be more likely to believe them.

Still it takes guts, I think. I hope that it pays off, it will be fun to see.

This is the kind of stuff that makes it so much fun to be a MAC user!

And for that guy that said that he was emabaressed for APPLE>

OH PLEASE, thats rather freakin idiotic to take something so funny and irrevant and allow yourself to be embaressed about it for someone else.
You are very insecure, if you think that APPLE hasnt thought this through!

This is a little risky but still a smart move.
Would you prefer another slow airplane middle seat ad with an iBook.
I like this better.
GO GET EM APPLE!

brooksfow
Jun 11, 2002, 01:39 AM
I must admit that at first I wasn't too impressed with the new apple ads, but after reading the previous post I've warmed up to 'em. I mean, apple doesn't have to sell me a computer. I already have a machine. My family's total is up to 7 Macs (in 4 different towns, but unfortunately only one ipod).

But what Mada... made me realize is that apple is trying to appeal to people who don't have Macs, and I feel like an idiot for not taking this angle more seriously.

As for as the 420 cat you have to admit that whether it's on purpose or not the ads fall in line with the TV norm, which is a white majority. This argument goes a little deeper than a few Mac ads. I also agree that with 420 that some of the people come across as confused.

At first I thought, this makes Mac users look silly, because the people we see in the commercials are now Mac users who come across as being too dumb to run windows. But, then I thought of my Mother, who uses windows, and doesnt know 'ish about computers. She had to pay someone to get her internet to work again (I refuse to touch her peice of crap computer and live out of town). I have never heard of anyone with a Mac paying someone to fix their internet unless it was the phone or cable company. Oh, and guess where my Mother got the name of someone who would fix her computer? ...From several other PC users at work who've had the same problem.

Apologies for the ramble, and please don't knock periodic indulgers who work their asses off all week for unrecognized rights on their weekends.

Gelfin
Jun 11, 2002, 05:21 AM
I like them a lot. I mean, how often have we heard the claim that Apple's ads are too esoteric and artsy to appeal to average consumers? These aren't. They're very direct in addressing exactly the issues facing real users.

I particularly like the BSOD spot. Most of us at MacRumors are computer literate geeks, and as such we usually can't understand how it is for non-geeks to use computers. In my experience when computer-illiterates see something like a BSOD, they automatically think, "Oh, crap. I broke it." The way the guy clearly describes it may be the first time many of the audience realize that the bluescreens they've encountered were not their fault -- they happen to everybody. Everybody using Windows, that is.

The biggest problem with this (and it's going to be a problem no matter what Apple does) is that most people are really so abysmally illiterate that the distinction is lost on them completely. To a surprisingly large number of users, "Windows" is anything that appears on a computer screen. Just ask any tech support guy: Q: "What email program do you use?" A: "Windows." Trying to sell Macs as distinct from Windows to these people is like trying to sell somebody an electric car after he tells you that he can't get one because his local gas station doesn't sell "electric gasoline."

AmbitiousLemon
Jun 11, 2002, 05:30 AM
Originally posted by Gelfin
like trying to sell somebody an electric car after he tells you that he can't get one because his local gas station doesn't sell "electric gasoline."

:) ok i just love that. you are my new hero gel.

you are right on though.

carta
Jun 11, 2002, 06:40 AM
While they didn't haul in the "beautiful people" from the boutiques of LA or the latte shops of Seattle for these commercials, I wish each concluded with a shot of a Mac or the person sitting in front of their Mac. That would show a beautiful industrial design being used by average people who, for a second or two in front of the world's eyes, are computing without FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt).

Blackcat
Jun 11, 2002, 06:54 AM
Originally posted by carta
While they didn't haul in the "beautiful people" from the boutiques of LA or the latte shops of Seattle for these commercials, I wish each concluded with a shot of a Mac or the person sitting in front of their Mac. That would show a beautiful industrial design being used by average people who, for a second or two in front of the world's eyes, are computing without FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt).

Nah, it'd just make the people look even uglier :D

mcrain
Jun 11, 2002, 09:19 AM
Hi, many of you know me as the annoying PC using attorney who loves a good fight.

Those who don't know me, I'm a PC user (two Compaq's, an old IBM, and before that a 486). I'm also a former Mac basher. Couldn't think of one good reason to buy a mac. They looked silly (sorry, but the original iMac and ibooks did look silly) and performance wise, I could see no reason or find no reason why anyone bought them.

NOW, things have changed. Why? First, the computers look nice. They really look and feel nice. But, they were still macs. So what, they look nice. Then, I got to use a TiBook, and later a new iBook. Wow, that OS is nice. Stable, reliable, and very, very nice. But, still, my old 400 Mhz PC runs its basic stuff fairly well.

Reliability again. After using the macs for a while, I came back here, and boom, blue screen of death, scan disk, restart, etc. etc. ad nauseum.

I then remember how nice the macs were to use, and I experienced and saw no problems with running them. Wow, if they really (read sceptism) are that stable and reliable, I should get one.

Now, Apple starts this ad campaign where I get to hear other people who were in my shoes wondering about the macs, and how they have reliable computers now and no more of the pc crashes, etc... and I think, wow, maybe my friends were right, and my week or so of use wasn't just a fluke.

I should buy a mac.

I have been waiting for MWNY (I'm betting on something) to buy, but am having a far harder time now (after seeing 3 of the ads) than I was yesterday.

So, maybe the people aren't hot. Maybe they aren't actors. Maybe they are confused looking, but damnit, that's how most of us PC users feel when we're considering a new computer. Confused. Apple feels my pain, and they have the answer. It's a mac, so go to the store and buy one.

Yes, buy, buy, buy... Apple good!

arn
Jun 11, 2002, 09:24 AM
Originally posted by mcrain

I should buy a mac.

I have been waiting for MWNY (I'm betting on something) to buy, but am having a far harder time now (after seeing 3 of the ads) than I was yesterday.


:) mcrain, I guess I missed the fact that you don't actually have a Mac yet... (which I just assumed since you've got 700+ posts here :) )

anyhow... if you want a Tower... wait. If you want an iBook or PowerBook, they just got updated, so get one now... It's very unlikely they'll be updated at MWNY :)

arn

Backtothemac
Jun 11, 2002, 09:29 AM
mcrain! What up dawg! Good to see you back. Man, I thought you had a Mac! Man, now you are truely a fan of the Mac. 700+ posts, and you don't even get to come he in the beauty of aqua. Man, I have to whipe the tears from my face. :D

Moxiemike
Jun 11, 2002, 09:30 AM
I think MacRain has really hit on why the ads work....especially the "confusion" part....I showed them to my dad, an architect who uses a PC for AutoCad but lusts after my dual gig (we share an office) and he said he feels their pain-- sometimes when I come back from lunch, dear ol' dad will be sitting there surfing on netscape on my tower.... it's so darned funny. Heh.

Maybe for father's day he'll get my old Dual 450 and a nice copy of Vectorworks.....


But yea. This is the sort-of image we want to air... you can see the calmness or excitement when they do the "I now have a mac" and you can see how unsettling their PC experience was. And the opening shots are garish for a reason-- they convey that "I'm frustrated" air.

mcrain
Jun 11, 2002, 09:37 AM
Originally posted by arn


:) mcrain, I guess I missed the fact that you don't actually have a Mac yet... (which I just assumed since you've got 700+ posts here :) )

anyhow... if you want a Tower... wait. If you want an iBook or PowerBook, they just got updated, so get one now... It's very unlikely they'll be updated at MWNY :)

arn

Ha ha ha ha!!! Truth... my first post came the day I got back from my buddies house and had my first use of a TiBook. I thought the design was amazing, absolutly amazing, but I refused to buy until I had something or someone who could explain to me that the macs weren't behind the PC's in performance.

I got on here, and started asking questions (mostly dumb questions) and getting answers for the most part (Alphatech laid into me once - yes, I deserved it).

Over time, I discovered that the computer that I lusted after was getting long in the tooth and maybe updated. It was. So, I'm ready to buy.

But, there is always a but. I just moved my wife to Houston, and now am paying the rent on a house and a big city apartment, she hasn't started her residency (i.e. paycheck) yet, my bike hasn't sold yet, and, oh, I haven't got a job down there yet! Arg!

Anyway, the point of this is that I came here as a PC user desperate for someone to tell me it was OK to get a mac and that I wouldn't regret it later, and what I found was so much information and differing opinions that I became certain of a few things... macs were better, but I should be patient and get what I want.

These ads are fantastic because even though I know they are from Apple, I feel more comfortable with my purchase decision.

M

(I'd buy a TiBook today if there was a store near here where I could get one)
(edit... one, it's mcrain, not MacRain, and two, my wife would shoot me if I bought a computer without having a job first)

Moxiemike
Jun 11, 2002, 09:39 AM
Originally posted by mcrain


Ha ha ha ha!!! Truth... my first post came the day I got back from my buddies house and had my first use of a TiBook. I thought the design was amazing, absolutly amazing, but I refused to buy until I had something or someone who could explain to me that the macs weren't behind the PC's in performance.

I got on here, and started asking questions (mostly dumb questions) and getting answers for the most part (Alphatech laid into me once - yes, I deserved it).

Over time, I discovered that the computer that I lusted after was getting long in the tooth and maybe updated. It was. So, I'm ready to buy.

But, there is always a but. I just moved my wife to Houston, and now am paying the rent on a house and a big city apartment, she hasn't started her residency (i.e. paycheck) yet, my bike hasn't sold yet, and, oh, I haven't got a job down there yet! Arg!

Anyway, the point of this is that I came here as a PC user desperate for someone to tell me it was OK to get a mac and that I wouldn't regret it later, and what I found was so much information and differing opinions that I became certain of a few things... macs were better, but I should be patient and get what I want.

These ads are fantastic because even though I know they are from Apple, I feel more comfortable with my purchase decision.

M

(I'd buy a TiBook today if there was a store near here where I could get one)


McRain, I am sure you've heard it already-- It's SO ok to get a Mac. :) SOOOOOO ok. :)

I'd say that if you are gonna buy, there are some really online resellers.... i dunno what this forum thinks of plugs, so I won't plug my fave, but if you want any help buying online, I'd be glad to assist ya.

m

Backtothemac
Jun 11, 2002, 09:51 AM
Originally posted by mcrain
[B]But, there is always a but. I just moved my wife to Houston, and now am paying the rent on a house and a big city apartment, she hasn't started her residency (i.e. paycheck) yet, my bike hasn't sold yet, and, oh, I haven't got a job down there yet! Arg!

/B]

Word! Isn't it amazing the fear that the ole lady can put in us. I know that my wife has absolute power over me. Oh, well, it could be worse. As for the Mac, dude, go fore one of the new iBooks for your first Mac. You will be able to sell when you need to, and you won't loose much in the process. Think about it. 40 bucks per month on the Apple loan at most.

Hey can't you call it a tax write off.

Rajj
Jun 11, 2002, 10:25 AM
I don't like the ads because, Apple makes all the people using Macs look like some ******** psychos or dipsomaniacs!!!! :mad:


And also notice their occupations?? They all have high paying jobs, Apple makes it seems you have to have money to by a Mac, I work for AAA and I have a Tibook and a iPod!!! :cool:

Backtothemac
Jun 11, 2002, 10:28 AM
Originally posted by xrhajj
I don't like the ads because, Apple makes all the people using Macs look like some ****ing psychos or dipsomaniacs!!!! :mad:


And also notice their occupations?? They all have high paying jobs, Apple makes it seems you have to have money to by a Mac, I work for AAA and I have a Tibook and a iPod!!! :cool:

No, those are the real people. They are not actors, so Apple doesn't make them look like anything. Now the occupations. Most of them have jobs that are normally dominated by Windows systems. Areas that Apple needs to take some market share in. I love the LAN administrator.

Grokgod
Jun 11, 2002, 11:35 AM
How in the world did you get that? They look like psychos?

I geuss you have never seen a real psycho.

These people were communicating their difficulties with Wintel and how they were able to free themselves with the MAC from what seemed like a situation that had NO way out!

I think that at times they displayed that emotions and frustration in an obvious way. I would have been screaming, " Is there no other choice than this crap box on the planet!" So, I found them rather reserved.

I dont think that they all had high paying jobs.

Writers dont always make money!
I have a writer friend that is flat broke and he is a great writer and has had many film and tv credits. Hell he still has my washing machine! <vent>
But he wouldnt write on any thign other than a mac, he doesnt have the time to work out computer problems when he has a deadline. So they had creative people and people with actual jobs.

~Mcrain... I cannot believe that you still havnet bought a MAC. You must be in a lot of pain! Like a pregnant women that cant give birth.

Well, let me add this to you fence sitting!
NOW, is the perfect time to buy a Ti!!
Its the sweet spot of all the laptops. I bought one after waiting a while for that sweetness to occur. I dont even boot my P4 anymore , thank god!
I get twice the amount of work done and I am MUCH happier!
I should have been in those ads.

Also, buy from APPLE's web site, I did and got some free stuff with it.

You will get a job! be positive and put out the energy by getting your new Ti today.
This isnt a request, its a demand! :P

jamesbhai
Jun 11, 2002, 12:29 PM
mcrain, use a new mac to find a job! i moved cross-country and could only go a week macless before getting an ibook (gave to sister, recently purchased my own new ibook and use a pismo at work). consider it an investment. after your mac helps you find a job, you will have an instant bond.

the commercials will work great. you can't please all the people all the time, but if you do good, those whom you cannot please are usually not people you should care if pleased or not. heck, nearly 10% of americans didn't think we should retaliate after 9/11. screw 'em.

mcrain
Jun 11, 2002, 01:02 PM
Thanks for the encouragement everyone. I'm off the fencepost, and am going to buy. I'll probaby go visit a buddy of mine (originally got me hooked on macs a few months ago) and buy from a store up there.

As for the job, I've got a job here, but not there. License issues between states. Ug.

I'm sure things will be fine.

Maybe I'll wait till after MWNY just to be sure.

(edit) btw, no ibook. No G3 for me. If I'm buying a computer, I'm buying the best. TiBook 800 at a minimum.

Backtothemac
Jun 11, 2002, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by mcrain
Thanks for the encouragement everyone. I'm off the fencepost, and am going to buy. I'll probaby go visit a buddy of mine (originally got me hooked on macs a few months ago) and buy from a store up there.

As for the job, I've got a job here, but not there. License issues between states. Ug.

I'm sure things will be fine.

Maybe I'll wait till after MWNY just to be sure.

(edit) btw, no ibook. No G3 for me. If I'm buying a computer, I'm buying the best. TiBook 800 at a minimum.

You dis my iBook!@##@* :mad: Just kidding. yea, that would be a better investment for you to make in the long haul. I am just glad to see you back on here after a brief hiatus. How is the family?

Rajj
Jun 11, 2002, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by Backtothemac


No, those are the real people. They are not actors, so Apple doesn't make them look like anything. Now the occupations. Most of them have jobs that are normally dominated by Windows systems. Areas that Apple needs to take some market share in. I love the LAN administrator.

I know those are "real" people, I was in their shoes six months ago!!!
Look at Mark Frauenfelder, he looks like he has been drinking all night!!!
I think they should have put a housewife or someone similar, to get into the "heart of the P.C. users!!!
:cool:

Backtothemac
Jun 11, 2002, 02:21 PM
Originally posted by xrhajj


I know those are "real" people, I was in their shoes six months ago!!!
Look at Mark Frauenfelder, he looks like he has been drinking all night!!!
I think they should have put a housewife or someone similar, to get into the "heart of the P.C. users!!!
:cool:

I can see that. Remember the everything is easier on a Mac campaign is very young. It will get better.

Rajj
Jun 11, 2002, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by mcrain
Thanks for the encouragement everyone. I'm off the fencepost, and am going to buy. I'll probaby go visit a buddy of mine (originally got me hooked on macs a few months ago) and buy from a store up there.

As for the job, I've got a job here, but not there. License issues between states. Ug.

I'm sure things will be fine.

Maybe I'll wait till after MWNY just to be sure.

(edit) btw, no ibook. No G3 for me. If I'm buying a computer, I'm buying the best. TiBook 800 at a minimum.


Macworld is a month away, I would wait before buying anything!!!
There could be price drops on the TiBook or iBook,
There could be speed bumps, who knows!! :confused:
I do know one thing, you are making the right choice by switching to Apple and OSX is the BoMb!!! BOOOOOOOOOMMMMM:cool:

HybridTheory
Jun 11, 2002, 07:31 PM
I've been a PC only user for about 10 years until this year when I happened to win an iBook and iPod in a local television contest. I have to admit, OS X (OS 9 is poo when compared to OS X in my opinion) is a solid operating system and the Apple platform is moving in the right direction. Macs are great computers and you definitely can do things on macs that you can't do on a pc (like have your 80 year old grandma learn how to edit digital video. iMovie is so easy, there is no comparable product on the PC.)

But I still have a major beef with Macs. Their price per performance ratio. Mac's are still much more expensive than comparable PC's.

Oh, and about the BSOD and crashes with windows, that pretty much ended (at least for me) with Windows 2000 Professional. All other windows, 9x, ME, and even Windows XP are CRAP compared to Win2k.

I suppose the "user friendly" factor of Macs warrents the extra cost, but I'm a techie and I can manage pretty well without user friendliness. Then again, Mac *is* targeting the masses and not the minority of techies.

So until Macs can offer the same value as a PC's, I would not buy a mac.

AmbitiousLemon
Jun 11, 2002, 07:42 PM
teh high cost of macs is largely a thing of the distant past.

pc laptops are many times more expensive than mac laptops, while offering significantly less.

the desktops are different. mac desktops are pretty much the same cost of pc desktops when equally configured. in fact usually the macs are less. however the mac desktops are more expensive when comparing them to peecees that have less features (which is most pc desktops). also when building your own pc it will often (not always) be cheaper than a mac.

but for the general public there is no cost difference since most people cant build their own pc.

DakotaGuy
Jun 11, 2002, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by HybridTheory

But I still have a major beef with Macs. Their price per performance ratio. Mac's are still much more expensive than comparable PC's. So until Macs can offer the same value as a PC's, I would not buy a mac.

I would personally disagree with HybridTheory on this statement. With a little research at the Dell web site I find very little problems with the value of a Mac.

Dell 4500S "slim tower"
1.8 GHz P4
256MB RAM
40 GB HD
CD-RW
17 in. std CRT
(this price also includes a video editing program by Dell that costs $70 (I don't know if it works like iMovie, but it costs you money, a few programs are included, the only one worth mentioning is MS Office)
$1,209

eMac
700MHz PowerPC G4
128MB RAM
40GB HD
CD-RW
17 in. flat CRT
includes many software titles including Quicken, Appleworks and all iApps (except iDVD) for free.
$1,099

You could probably double the RAM in the eMac and still come out at around the same price as the Dell. You could also get a 1.7 Celeron in the Dell to save a few dollars, but I don't think the Celeron even at 1.7GHz will run with the 700MHz G4. In fact despite the major difference being MHz...really how is the Dell a better "value" then the eMac????

Sure the main page on the Dell site makes the computers look ultra cheap to buy, but when you start to add optional monitors, equipment and programs that come standard on the eMac you soon start to realize the Mac is a better value for your money.

cr2sh
Jun 11, 2002, 09:59 PM
no one sells a 'top-of-the-line' pc...
when was the last time you saw a dual processor non-mac for sale in a retail store? pentium-pro? i have no doubt that a dual 2GHz p4 could hold its with a dual g4, but youre not going to find one in a store and if you did it certainly would be more than $2500...

my point is, an e/iMac is that same thing hardware wise as a dell cheap-o or a gateway e-crap...
the powermac series is a pro-line and shouldnt be compared with with ANY consumer system, it just isnt the same thing... cost or performance wise... but we've kinda forgotten that havent we? powermac wont reclaim the 'PRO' until g5..

Celeron is suppossed to be a cheap answer for consumers wanting high mega-hertz.. run that up against and iMac (the mac equivalent)...
-c

dsamsa
Jun 11, 2002, 10:03 PM
I guess i watch more TV then everyone here... But I have seen 5 of these ads on TV. I've seen most on the FOX News cable channel. But I have also seen them on MTV and NBC! All in the past DAY! Apple must be spending MILLIONS on these ads. I hope they keep spending the big bucks, because hopefully they will get a return of market share, and overall sales increase. Good Job Apple! I LOVE the ads!!!

topicolo
Jun 11, 2002, 10:09 PM
What about graphics cards? that is (arguably) the most important part of a computer nowadays. What kind of graphics does the pc pack?

I hate to admit it, but I believe that hybrid is right...Macs are noticeably more expensive than PCs. Although everybody here compares macs to Dells, they don't realize that a large chunk of the peecee market buys no-name clones that are significantly cheaper than macs. For instance, the following package was being sold at a local pc store:

AMD Athlon XP 1900+ 266Processor(Retail)
ASUS A7V-333 Motherboard
512MB PC-2700 DDR 333RAM
MAXTOR 80GB (7200rpm) HD
LG 32X10X40 CD-RW
MSI GeForce 3TI200 PRO-VT128MB DDR <-----Geforce 3!!!
Creative Labs SB AUDIGY Sound
56K Fax /Voice or 10/100 LAN
MITSUMI Internet Keyboard
Internet Scroll Mouse
Creative Inspire 5.1 Speakers
$1,397CAN
$549CAN 15" LCD Monitor
---------------
$1946CAN = $1216.25US

That is much cheaper than the Dell and it'll work well enough for games and day-to-day tasks at a much lower (inital--doesn't include time wasted trying to fix windoze) cost.

Granted, I don't ever expect apple to lower their prices to THAT level, but I think apple needs to lower the prices of their entry level computers another 5-10%. Still, I, personally, am going to get an ibook/powerbook G4 for my next computer despite its higher cost because it is simply superior to pcs in everything except perhaps overall speed.

topicolo
Jun 11, 2002, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by dsamsa
I guess i watch more TV then everyone here... But I have seen 5 of these ads on TV. I've seen most on the FOX News cable channel. But I have also seen them on MTV and NBC! All in the past DAY! Apple must be spending MILLIONS on these ads. I hope they keep spending the big bucks, because hopefully they will get a return of market share, and overall sales increase. Good Job Apple! I LOVE the ads!!!

Me too! I hope this is the beginning of a huge advertising campaign for apple. They're sitting on waaay to much liquidity, and they need to spend some of it to gain market share if they want to grow their earnings. Apple survived the economic downturn better than the rest of the PC companies and I think they should take advantage of the situation and CRUSH Dell and the weakened HP/Compaq.

bretm
Jun 11, 2002, 11:43 PM
Originally posted by Grokgod


Also, buy from APPLE's web site, I did and got some free stuff with it.

You will get a job! be positive and put out the energy by getting your new Ti today.
This isnt a request, its a demand! :P

Apple's site? Free stuff? Not that they're anything wrong with ordering direct from apple but my experience has been that...

1. they're the most expensive
2. no free stuff
3. if there are giveaways like free printers, etc. all the resalers have same deal
4. resalers usually give double the ram
5. apple charges sales tax (ok, so I know mr. taxman will be filing those sales taxes anyway! right..)
6. shipping is slower - most online people fedex it to you by the next morning
7. all the other resalers will sell you all the other stuff you need. 2-button mouse, cheaper additional ram (waaaay cheaper), cheaper add-on hard drives, etc.

One plus with apple's site... custom config is easy. I haven't bought there, but I've configed a purchase many times. First I'll get the smallest harddrive cuz I can get plenty of cheap ide drives anywhere. Then I remove the modem. Sometimes a lesser graphics card (not a gamer), and even remove the dvd burner (I have one already).

But the freebies of the online sellers and their lack of sales tax seems to outweigh all that and so I've never bought anything but software and software upgrades from apple store.

Nipsy
Jun 12, 2002, 02:07 AM
Originally posted by mcrain
Hi, many of you know me as the annoying PC using attorney who loves a good fight.

What possesses one to climb to 700+ posts on a MacRumors board, when they don't own a Mac?

Every registerd user should be required to chip in a quarter to buy this guy a machine!

Nipsy
Jun 12, 2002, 02:32 AM
Originally posted by Abercrombieboy



Dell 4500S "slim tower"
1.8 GHz P4
256MB RAM
40 GB HD
CD-RW
17 in. std CRT
(this price also includes a video editing program by Dell that costs $70 (I don't know if it works like iMovie, but it costs you money, a few programs are included, the only one worth mentioning is MS Office)
$1,209

eMac
700MHz PowerPC G4
128MB RAM
40GB HD
CD-RW
17 in. flat CRT
includes many software titles including Quicken, Appleworks and all iApps (except iDVD) for free.
$1,099

In fact despite the major difference being MHz...really how is the Dell a better "value" then the eMac????


Okay, I don't like to play Devil's Advocate, but here's where your comparison falls apart:

Dell configured like eMac (1 year warranty) - $889
eMac - $1099

Dell as you specified (with Office & 3 year warranty) - $1209
eMac (with Office) - $1499

Also, those 2 PCI slots can give some added life to a machine, and although Windows cripples it, a 1.7GHZ P4 (roughly equivalent to a 1.4GHZ P3) is a faster processor than the G4 when it is not being used to full advantage (AltiVec).

Although the eMac is a better machine in most ways, the PC buyer is so used to being fed Office with a PC, that the $400 nut to purchase Office X might factor heavily in a decision, and even if they don't choose Office, they still get Word.

Take M$ out of the equation, and that Dell running RedHat would prolly be $500 with a 17" Display...

It is really hard to draw good cost comparisons nowadays, as we really depend on standards that the PC world doesn't (FireWire), and lack other trivial item which add fractional cost to PCs (floppies).

mcrain
Jun 12, 2002, 08:55 AM
Originally posted by Nipsy
What possesses one to climb to 700+ posts on a MacRumors board, when they don't own a Mac?

Every registerd user should be required to chip in a quarter to buy this guy a machine!

Just don't call me Travis, ok!

Actually, I sort of think of what I've done as intelligent, and by no means a waste of time. Sure, I don't own a mac, but when I walk into the store or online site, I will know what I want, and why. In addition, I will feel very comfortable and happy with my purchase. On top of that, when you've been around here and actively participating in discussions, you meet some really fantastic people.

Alphatech, and others here, are as knowledgeable about macs as anyone you'll run across. I know that when I'm getting ready to pull my hair out because I can't figure out how to do something, I will have a group of 'friends' that I can turn to for advice and guidance.

BTTM, my wife is ok, as am I. We both really, really like Houston, and I'm straining at the bit to get down there. Starting residency is a bit of a strain, as is living apart (again...), but it's only temporary.

Anyway, I'm one well educated mac shopper! Oh, and DON'T CALL ME TRAVIS!

Moxiemike
Jun 12, 2002, 09:09 AM
Originally posted by Nipsy


Okay, I don't like to play Devil's Advocate, but here's where your comparison falls apart:

Dell configured like eMac (1 year warranty) - $889
eMac - $1099

Dell as you specified (with Office & 3 year warranty) - $1209
eMac (with Office) - $1499

Also, those 2 PCI slots can give some added life to a machine, and although Windows cripples it, a 1.7GHZ P4 (roughly equivalent to a 1.4GHZ P3) is a faster processor than the G4 when it is not being used to full advantage (AltiVec).

Although the eMac is a better machine in most ways, the PC buyer is so used to being fed Office with a PC, that the $400 nut to purchase Office X might factor heavily in a decision, and even if they don't choose Office, they still get Word.

Take M$ out of the equation, and that Dell running RedHat would prolly be $500 with a 17" Display...

It is really hard to draw good cost comparisons nowadays, as we really depend on standards that the PC world doesn't (FireWire), and lack other trivial item which add fractional cost to PCs (floppies).


Good points regarding Office....We bought my mom and iMac for xMas 2001 and she has never used it because she doesn't have MS Money, nevermind that Quicken is so superior....

That said, what other alternative (aside from trying to make Appleworks compete with office-- I don't think that will ever happen) do we have? Could Apple work out a deal where they lisence Office and make it an add on in the Apple Store for say, half price or something? (Since you just get an OEM version, and you don't get the nice diecut Office v.X box.... no manual, online documentation, etc)

Maybe even allow it to be preinstalled in the dock when you get your Mac ordered with office... and make sure its a BTO option only?

I dunno...

Backtothemac
Jun 12, 2002, 10:28 AM
Originally posted by Nipsy

Okay, I don't like to play Devil's Advocate, but here's where your comparison falls apart:
Dell configured like eMac (1 year warranty) - $889
eMac - $1099
Dell as you specified (with Office & 3 year warranty) - $1209
eMac (with Office) - $1499
Also, those 2 PCI slots can give some added life to a machine, and although Windows cripples it, a 1.7GHZ P4 (roughly equivalent to a 1.4GHZ P3) is a faster processor than the G4 when it is not being used to full advantage (AltiVec).
Although the eMac is a better machine in most ways, the PC buyer is so used to being fed Office with a PC, that the $400 nut to purchase Office X might factor heavily in a decision, and even if they don't choose Office, they still get Word.
Take M$ out of the equation, and that Dell running RedHat would prolly be $500 with a 17" Display...
It is really hard to draw good cost comparisons nowadays, as we really depend on standards that the PC world doesn't (FireWire), and lack other trivial item which add fractional cost to PCs (floppies).

Well, I have to disagree with you on one part of your assessment and that is that the PIV could out perform a 700MHZ G4. I would beg to differ. The problem is that the G4 does have altivec. If you want to compare non-altivec functions, then compare a G3 to the PIV. That would get rid of that problem. For you see, now that X is the native OS on the Mac, it uses altivec, so the comparison is impossible. That being said, the Mac will perform equal or better. In addition the Mac has a better monitor, far easier to network and upgrade than the Dell. Also, it runs winblows, and that makes it impossible to compare the two. What is OS X worth? It is worth a lot to me. Just going along with your devil's advocate.

britboy
Jun 12, 2002, 10:40 AM
Just to add to b2tm's last post, the PIV at 1.7GHz is not roughly equivalent to the PIII at 1.4GHz. The PIII maxed out at 1GHz, yet still outperformed the PIV, right up until it reached about 2GHz.

eunuchs
Jun 12, 2002, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by Moxiemike



Good points regarding Office....We bought my mom and iMac for xMas 2001 and she has never used it because she doesn't have MS Money, nevermind that Quicken is so superior....

That said, what other alternative (aside from trying to make Appleworks compete with office-- I don't think that will ever happen) do we have? Could Apple work out a deal where they lisence Office and make it an add on in the Apple Store for say, half price or something? (Since you just get an OEM version, and you don't get the nice diecut Office v.X box.... no manual, online documentation, etc)

Maybe even allow it to be preinstalled in the dock when you get your Mac ordered with office... and make sure its a BTO option only?

I dunno...

What about StarOffice/OpenOffice? My experience is that AppleWorks is nice, but that OpenOffice offers a much more complete MS Office replacement. If Apple were to get on board with Sun and develop a Cocoa-tastic port of OpenOffice they could have something of an Office-killer. This is obviously a major undertaking, but believe it or not, there are people already working on it (http://porting.openoffice.org/mac/)!

As of now, there is only an X11 version, but they are attempting to use Aqua too.

Inhale420
Jun 14, 2002, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by Nipsy


Okay, I don't like to play Devil's Advocate, but here's where your comparison falls apart:

Dell configured like eMac (1 year warranty) - $889
eMac - $1099

Dell as you specified (with Office & 3 year warranty) - $1209
eMac (with Office) - $1499

Also, those 2 PCI slots can give some added life to a machine, and although Windows cripples it, a 1.7GHZ P4 (roughly equivalent to a 1.4GHZ P3) is a faster processor than the G4 when it is not being used to full advantage (AltiVec).

Although the eMac is a better machine in most ways, the PC buyer is so used to being fed Office with a PC, that the $400 nut to purchase Office X might factor heavily in a decision, and even if they don't choose Office, they still get Word.

Take M$ out of the equation, and that Dell running RedHat would prolly be $500 with a 17" Display...

It is really hard to draw good cost comparisons nowadays, as we really depend on standards that the PC world doesn't (FireWire), and lack other trivial item which add fractional cost to PCs (floppies).

thanks for the level-headed retort. those types of comparisons are ALWAYS skewed in favor of what either the windroid or maclot wants.

mcrain
Jun 14, 2002, 02:29 PM
My parents, both in their 60's, and neither of them owned a computer until recently, didn't really understand the mac vs. pc issues or differences.

They just knew that pcs were what everyone used, and macs were different.

They have now seen a bunch of those real people ads, and my mother started talking with me about how good the ads were and how they are soooo wonderful.

I'd venture a guess that there are people out there like my parents who will now consider a mac as something other than something different now.

Backtothemac
Jun 14, 2002, 03:42 PM
Good point. Not only that, but Apple is flooding them in the market. It seems that every time I turn on the TV. BOOM There is one of the real people ads. Great job, and I hope it keeps working.

britboy
Jun 14, 2002, 08:28 PM
I wonder by what factor apples' marketing budget has multiplied in the past couple of years? It seems like they're getting the right idea, and pushing for more public awareness.

Long may it continue :)