Apple Developing a Home Media Server?

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/12/29/apple-developing-a-home-media-server/)

9to5Mac reports (http://9to5mac.com/apple-home-server) that Apple has been working on a home media server to access your iTunes and other files anywhere you have internet access. The site compares it to HP's Media Smart Server (http://www.hp.com/united-states/campaigns/mediasmart-server/?jumpid=ex_r602_go/mediasmartserver) which offers a centralized location for backup, storage and file delivery to your computers locally as well as remotely:Your music, photos, videos and other media are part of your life -- but they're scattered over multiple computers, disk drives, CDs, DVDs, and MP3 players.... Macs and iPods too. The HP MediaSmart Server centralizes all your files, from all your home computers, in one place so you can grab them anywhere you have an internet connection and share how you want.Apple's take on the system would reportedly expand out Time Capsule's functionality from being a single drive backup system into a more robust multi-drive backup server. In addition, tie ins would be made to Apple's MobileMe services to deliver access to your files and media from anywhere on the internet.

9to5mac suggests that media could also be shared to your iPhone and iPod touch, providing full access to your media while mobile. The device could also serve media files to other computers at home as well as to your Apple TV.

Article Link: Apple Developing a Home Media Server? (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/12/29/apple-developing-a-home-media-server/)

[thomahawk]

sounds interesting! i would definetly get it if it does a whole complete integration of everything for all your devices and computers

[cmcbridejr]

MobileMe integration would be great.

Access your entire music library from wherever.

[mmcxiiad]

I have wanted something like this for a long time. I think it needs to be the main library for itunes, iphoto & imovie. those libraries are getting too big for most computers and adds a level of complexity to share (are all computers on the network, is the app open, etc).

where as, if a home server could be the central database for all of that, then when you say, import pictures, they get synced to the HMS and then available to everyone on the network (obviously there could be permissions and such).

[iwuzbord]

sounds interesting! i would definetly get it if it does a whole complete integration of everything for all your devices and computers

i agree. something like mobile me, but for your media. apple would probably replace the apple tv with this device, and make a service that would be able to take and aggregate media from your computers and what not.

[DMann]

Now we're talking! A merging of the Mac-Mini and :apple:TV
This is bound to set another new standard.

[glide]

HP's newly updated MediaSmart server just beat them to the punch.

[applefan69]

and wireless syncing of your ipods?

Or at least ipod tocuh/iPhone?

[kastenbrust]

basically a mini server in your own home, sweet =] sign me up for one

[milo]

Sounds pretty cool.

Overall, iTunes could use some MAJOR improvements in the way it is able to handle drives and organize files. It's hard to believe that it still has no good way to split an iTunes library over multiple drives, not even something as simple as different drives for music and video.

Same goes for multiple users sharing audio and video files in a household. Sure, secondary machines can access the songs, but no way to change star ratings? Play count doesn't change?

Let's hope this is a sign of improvements to iTunes overall, not just for those who buy a new (usually overpriced) apple add-on.

[jaw04005]

I'll have to see it to believe it. The home server market is such a niche market.

Apple typically avoids complicated devices like this, as they don't really know who or how to market it (Apple TV anyone?).

With that said, I have an HP MediaSmart Server and I would love for Apple to create their own version of it.

I think 9to5mac is just jumping on HP's news today.

Now we're talking! A merging of the Mac-Mini and :apple:TV
This is bound to set another new standard.

Jumping the gun aren't you? No one has said anything about merging the Apple TV or Mac mini. This device would be more like an advanced Time Capsule (or Drobo). I highly doubt it's going to support any type of display-out.

[blur35mm]

Interesting concept, but will they get it right??

Just like DVD Player allows you to playback VIDEO_TS folders, they need to SUPPORT playback of VIDEO_TS folders on the Apple TV not with a hack.

Be able to daisy chain drives for seamless scalability.

Also, another novel concept would be to introduce LED picture frames that are wirelessly connected to this media server with a simple remote to control access to photos or even videos.

There is real potential for Apple to corner this market, but they need to get it right. I have 200+ DVD's and prefer to rip them for playback to avoid damaging the discs. Also, they need to throw in true support for Dolby Digital 7.1.

I'd be all over it even if it cost 1-200 more if it did everything I needed it to.

Until then, the Apple TV is a novelty item and cannot be used seriously for home theater enthusiasts even if the media server were attached without all the right functions.

I sense a Kaleidescape killer if they can get it right.

[Yvan256]

I hope it has RAID and multiple internal drives capabilities as well as external drives ports (USB2, FW400, FW800, eSATA). Let's also hope it's nearly silent. My Mac minis have spoiled me, I can't stand computer hardware noise anymore. :D

[Loa]

Won't be long before we're truly back to the original model: server + terminals...

Nisaea

[mmcxiiad]

I would bet the farm & chickens that this would be expandable via USB, but it would be great if it also included firewire. But based on apple letting go of firewire (ipods & macbook) there isn't much hope for firewire.

As an unrelated thought... anyone want to take odds that the new mac mini will not have firewire? My guess is it will be gone on everything except the pro lines of apple products and iMacs.

[gkarris]

4Gig iPhones will be more than useful - no longer have to figure out what to put on them, or any iPhone/iPod Touch for that matter. :)

[dwright1974]

basically a mini server in your own home, sweet =] sign me up for one

Here here!!

I've been so close to buying a cheap HP-esque Server from somewhere like eBuyer to put Win 2003 + iTunes on it to do this!

A 'proper' integrated Apple solution to serve my MBP, Apple TV and my Work laptop either when it's at home or at work would be brilliant!

The only thing would be, please don't make it £999 Apple!!

Sounds like a 'one more thing' er, thing to me :D

Bring on January!!

- D

[blur35mm]

Won't be long before we're truly back to the original model: server + terminals...

Nisaea


You are a wise person...

[zombitronic]

I hope they do this. We were talking about one of these back when the "Brick (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=6346620#post6346620)" rumor was going on.

Ugly mock-up:

http://att.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137134&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1222584093

http://att.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137135&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1222584093

[chedda]

With the dropping of the uber expensive xserve raid perhaps an affordable drobo like device is on the cards ?

[Kilamite]

I'll take one!

[Yvan256]

I'll have to see it to believe it. The home server market is such a niche market.

IMHO it stopped being a niche market when Apple started to sell TV shows and movies via the iTunes Store. Non-technical users need a way to safeguard those files, and even Time Capsule/Time Machine can't do it if they don't support multiple drives/RAID setups.

There's also the fact that iTunes cannot manage multiple drives by itself, you need to manually manage files to be able to do that. As an example, I let iTunes manage my music files but I take care of the TV shows and movies files by hand. And yes, I have to check/uncheck the "let iTunes manage files" every time I add something. It works, but it's annoying.

[MakGeek]

I have spent teh better part of this weekend trying to figure out how to implement this at home. Wife got me my second AppleTV I bought her a Macbook, add in my MAcBook Pro and an iMac and we have vast file confusion. Remote access would be great but not needed immediately for me, I just need a central place to store all this media.

[jawzzy]

Convergence, convergence, convergence. I love it, Apple. Keep 'em coming.

[Akitakoi]

Oh yea, I hope this one "pans out". This is exactly what I have been planning to build/hackintosh, I would rather just buy one.:)

[Desamell]

I hope they do this. We were talking about one of these back when the "Brick (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=6346620#post6346620)" rumor was going on.

Ugly mock-up:

http://att.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137134&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1222584093

http://att.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137135&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1222584093
I would buy it.

[RAMDoubler]

This device would be more like an advanced Time Capsule (or Drobo). I highly doubt it's going to support any type of display-out.

Agreed - I've been wondering about this kind of thing ever since the XRaid was killed. The Xraid hardware was well done, though I have my concerns about price considering the cost of the Time Capsule.

Been eyeing a Drobo for a while, but the integration with MobileMe has me thinking I'll watch and wait.

Any photoshop gurus out there want to mock-up what a mini-XRaid might look like? ;)

[Lone Deranger]

ZFS has this ability (ZFS pools). Good place to put it to use I would think. :)

....Be able to daisy chain drives for seamless scalability.

[chrisgeleven]

I would love a home server product from Apple. From what I hear, the Microsoft Windows Home Server product is one of the few things they got right the first time around. Centralized backup, remote access, user management, media storage, etc.

I could picture myself downloading a song on one Mac, have that instantly synced with the home server, then that synced with any other computer in the house that has my user account. MobileMe handles syncing for contacts, calendar, etc, but nothing can do that type of seamless syncing for media yet.

Time Capsule does the job with 1 or 2 computers, but only for backup. After that, it really can't scale. In many homes you are talking 3-5 computers on the same network. Throw in a couple of iPhones/iTouches, an Apple TV or two, and you really need a real dedicated home server to handle this.

[Michael73]

If this is accessible by multiple devices, I would hope this would support unique content streams e.g. my wife and I watching a movie in one room, my son listening to some song playlist in his bedroom and my other son watching a movie in the basement.

[pulsar4756]

If they use MobileMe, they should add some extra iphone-like buttons on the web app of MobileMe for music and movies.

[krye]

This is something that I have wanted to do for years. I can't tell you how many times I've been at work wanting to listen to a particular CD on my iPod/iPhone and I couldn't because the song wasn't on my iPod or iPhone at the time and there's no way to sync with my iTunes library over the internet. If only there was a way to tie in my iTunes library with MobileMe, I could put songs from home onto my iPod connected to my computer at work. That would be awesome.

[Superman07]

I feel like this product would tie the end user down more than some of the current solutions out there. For example, I would hope Apple wouldn't require users to sign up for MobileMe to have full access remotely. I could understand if it was an option where you would get some specialized services, but if they want it to be widely adopted then they can't be too limiting with the capabilities.

[Le Big Mac]

MobileMe integration would be great.



Not requiring mobileme would be even better . . .

[JesterJJZ]

I would buy it.

An Apple branded trash can?

[MDiddy]

Won't be long before we're truly back to the original model: server + terminals...

Nisaea

I don't agree. It think this is beyond a server/terminal model, where the terminal is just a dumb interface extension with the server doing all the heavy lifting, though there may be instances where that makes sense. This is next logical step for people that have been digital for a few years and are needing to normalize all their assets and access them from wherever they are.

What would be awesome is if the server is smart enough to know what the capabilities of the device are and adjust accordingly, so if I have an HD movie in iTunes, it automajically scales down the quality for streaming so I don't have to have two versions. I have more music than I'd care to keep on my Macbook Pro's 160GB drive but I still want to have access when I'm out and about and have the urge. I've been waiting for this kind of thing. If its done right, it could be huge.

[sighlent]

I would only really go for it if it could act as a HTPC as well. I'm planning on getting a Mac mini + Drobo when the new mini comes out (assuming FW800). My G5 + 2x Dual eSATA drive enclosures is not only bulky and not as redundant as a Drobo, it can't play HD video if its life depended on it.

[Michael73]

One other thought...it would be great if this wasn't specifically a hardware product. I would be nice if those of us with a MacPro could designate a drive or partition as the "home media drive" that other apple devices could sync with.

[Le Big Mac]

Same goes for multiple users sharing audio and video files in a household. Sure, secondary machines can access the songs, but no way to change star ratings? Play count doesn't change?



Absolutely. Sharing within a subnet at home really should be much better. Sharing playlists really doesn't cut it--one should be able to have a central itunes library with each user having his/her own xml data for playlists, playcounts, ratings, etc. as well as full access for syncing to an iPod.

How coudl that be objectionable to record cos.? Do they really want to make my wife and me buy two copies of a CD? Come on . . .

And if the issue is, say, colleges, simple enough to limit access to say 10 users.

[plinden]

I would love a home server product from Apple. From what I hear, the Microsoft Windows Home Server product is one of the few things they got right the first time around. Centralized backup, remote access, user management, media storage, etc.

Well ... except for that little file corruption bug - http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/27/windows-home-server-bug-corrupts-files/

[MrCrowbar]

I hope it has RAID and multiple internal drives capabilities as well as external drives ports (USB2, FW400, FW800, eSATA). Let's also hope it's nearly silent. My Mac minis have spoiled me, I can't stand computer hardware noise anymore. :D

Mine gets rather noisy when playing HD stuff. Watching TV via eyeTV is loud because the progressive deinterlacing is warming up the GPU which is not really well cooled.

So I built a noise insulating box and have the Mini inside. Doesn't get to hot but the noise is pretty much gone.


Anyway, such a home server would be mighty cool. It wouldn't need an optical drive, so you can make that thing pretty small. I'm still figuring out a reliable way to share folders from my attached USB drive across windows and Mac users. Even on Leopard, that's a no-go. SharePoints doensn't help either. Even using AFP, it always forgets the password, disconnects randomly or refuses to diconnect the network computer until you force-quit Finder.

Hate to say it, but Apple's not too good in terms of easy networking. It's a shame, really.

[Full of Win]

Makes total sense. I've come to the conclusion that after 3 months of copying moves from my NetFlicks subscription, and trying to view them on three separate Macs, there has to be a better way.

[archer75]

I use a WHS machine I built myself and can house 12 drives and it works great.
So if i'm to get one from apple it needs to support at least 6 drives and allow for drives of any size and support parity as opposed to mirroring for redundancy. Then I would consider it.

[archer75]

Well ... except for that little file corruption bug - http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/27/windows-home-server-bug-corrupts-files/

That only affected a small number of users with specific apps under very specific circumstances. And it was fixed long ago.

[pilotError]

I would be happy if they would eliminate the Apple TV pass code and stop knocking out support for NAS drives that are perfectly capable of working with Time Machine.

This forced ecosystem is very disturbing lately.

It would make sense why 10.5.6 disabled my NAS backups. I bet we see it at Macworld.

[iMacmatician]

9to5Mac reports (http://9to5mac.com/apple-home-server) that Apple has been working on a home media server to access your iTunes and other files anywhere you have internet access.
…
9to5mac suggests that media could also be shared to your iPhone and iPod touch, providing full access to your media while mobile. The device could also serve media files to other computers at home as well as to your Apple TV.I knew I shouldn't have given up on this (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/03/04/investors_grill_apples_jobs_over_successor_games_future_products.html)! (Should have kept my MWSF 2009 announcement prediction.)

Jobs hesitated slightly when asked about the future of home server appliances. "Leopard Server pioneers wiki, blogging, calendar services that are really exceptional. Are there any plans to deliver an Xserve mini to bring theses kinds of services to consumers at an affordable price, like an embedded home server on the level of Apple TV and Time Capsule?'

Jobs seemed like he wanted to say something, but then punctuated the awkward silence with the typical refrain of not being able to say anything.Since the home server rumor was revived, maybe the mini-tablet rumor will too? :D

And yes, I definitely want to be able to access media and other data elsewhere. It'd be nice to have and reduces my need to copy files from one place to another.

So, rumored for MWSF 2009…

iMac, possibly quad-core
Redesigned Mac mini
iPhone nano
Snow Leopard demo/preview
Home Media Server

Might be more exciting than I thought! ;)

[alexbates]

There would be no need for a 32GB iPhone then, because you would have everything through a cell tower. I hope laptops are like this one day, so every computer could be like the MacBook Air.


http://att.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137135&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1222584093

How much would that hold, about 12TB? I don't think I would need that much unless I started ripping DVDs like crazy.

[SkippyThorson]

Maybe they are making a new Mini.

And maybe they are making a home server.

And maybe this new home server will be the new "Mac Mini"?

Perhaps the Mini will stay, but the device will be different. Nothing is stopping them from reusing names. It would inherit the hype of and name of the original, but be marketed and used entirely differently. Just a thought.

[MrCrowbar]

I would only really go for it if it could act as a HTPC as well. I'm planning on getting a Mac mini + Drobo when the new mini comes out (assuming FW800). My G5 + 2x Dual eSATA drive enclosures is not only bulky and not as redundant as a Drobo, it can't play HD video if its life depended on it.

I wouldn't recommend the Drobo. If the hardware (the Drobo) fails, all your data is not accessible until you ship in the Drobo and get a replacement after a while. And it's a small company, so if you're out of warranty, your data is gone for good, there's no software to read the files.

Instead, buy two same sized USB hard drives, one for data, one for the backup (Time Machine, Super Duper, Carbon Copy Cloner) of the data disk. You can use OSX's built-in software RAID so one drive mirrors the other. Or you set up Time machine, that has the advantage that you can recover accidentally deleted stuff. If you go the Time Machine route, you can also use differently sized drives.

A decent 1500 GB Drive is not really expensive anymore, you can get a Seagate Freeagent Desk (don't bother with the more expensive Mac version) for about 130 Dollars. Those drives are reliable, very quiet an power efficient (they work with OSX's energy saving setting "put hard drive to sleep after x minutes"). Those drives also come with a native OSX diagnostic utility which tells you when a drive is starting to fail (S.M.A.R.T. technology plus some proprietary stuff that looks for corrupted files and sectors).

[Kilamite]

It might look like this:

http://idisk.me.com/ross_t/Public/mac_mini_server.png

[alphaod]

This would be great, but how would this work for people who have say Comcast or Road Runner with their capped data plans?

I don't think I would need that much unless I started ripping DVDs like crazy.

That is so 2002.

[jellomizer]

MobileMe integration would be great.

Access your entire music library from wherever.

Except for the $99.00 a year for MobileMe. $25.00 a year is My price point. As the way I use my Mac. I don't really use it all that much. It would be nice to have a centralized server but compared with Googles free offerings A Ben Franklin every year is too much for me. $25.00 a year would be a much better price range that I would be willing to pay to get the advantages vs. Googles offering.

[chromos]

I don't agree. It think this is beyond a server/terminal model, where the terminal is just a dumb interface extension with the server doing all the heavy lifting, though there may be instances where that makes sense. This is next logical step for people that have been digital for a few years and are needing to normalize all their assets and access them from wherever they are.

What would be awesome is if the server is smart enough to know what the capabilities of the device are and adjust accordingly, so if I have an HD movie in iTunes, it automajically scales down the quality for streaming so I don't have to have two versions. I have more music than I'd care to keep on my Macbook Pro's 160GB drive but I still want to have access when I'm out and about and have the urge. I've been waiting for this kind of thing. If its done right, it could be huge.

This is exactly what I was thinking. Remember that Apple has QuickTime Streaming Server in its portfolio. If QTSS were integrated into this server box, it would be fantastic. Faster-than-realtime conversion to low bitrate streams for listening/watching on mobile devices.

[jaw04005]

xServe mini. I would love to see Apple ship a home server with a stripped down version of Leopard server. :)

However, 9to5mac points out that they think it will be a Time Capsule variant — meaning ARM processor, embedded operating system, etc. :(

[Spades]

I've wanted this for years. Throw in a netbook, which would benefit nicely from networked media storage, and Apple can name whatever price they want.

[MacFly123]

Sounds like this would be in high demand based on the comments in this thread. You could add me to that list. I would love something like this!

I am just sad that I bought my 1TB Time Capsule only a few months ago :( I still haven't even ripped half my DVDs.

P.S. Anyone in here have a lot of experience with Hand Brake? I would say 1 out of 5 movies I rip gets all screwed up with either the audio out of sync or chapters being skipped and screwed up video etc. Is this pretty common with HB??? It is starting to really piss me off :mad:

Bring on the Time Capsule Pro Apple :D

[woutervogel]

Apple may only be just in time with reasonable centralised accessible data storage. I have been using Microsoft's MESH for a month now, on all my OSX machines (!) and my girlfriends Vista laptop. Very impressive! It instantly replicates all my important data on my work, at home, and wherever i am, including my favourite music and pictures. Much better and faster than MobileMe, I'm sorry to say.

Come on, Apple, you can still win this!

[Evangelion]

Apple does not need additional hardware for this. What they need is software.

For a long time I have dreamed of an iTunes-server that would let me play back via airtunes all the content from the various itunes-libraries in my household while still letting us sync those libraries to iPods. Strangely, even with all the talk about "media-servers" and the like, there is no such solution for iTunes. None.

I have asked of this before and I have received suggestions, but they all fall short.

[timish]

4Gig iPhones will be more than useful - no longer have to figure out what to put on them, or any iPhone/iPod Touch for that matter. :)

Not really.....4GB Iphones have to deal with the glacially slow EDGE connection speeds.....:eek:


Assuming we are talking about getting our media over the cell phone network.

[JG271]

Sounds interesting. I doubt it would have display out or anything else really, otherwise were are getting into the forbidden xMac zone!

I was thinking of buying an old G4 and turning that into a little server/backup , but one that synced things automatically, maybe with a version of leopard server would be great.

[askthedust]

Except for the $99.00 a year for MobileMe. $25.00 a year is My price point. As the way I use my Mac. I don't really use it all that much. It would be nice to have a centralized server but compared with Googles free offerings A Ben Franklin every year is too much for me. $25.00 a year would be a much better price range that I would be willing to pay to get the advantages vs. Googles offering.

i looked further than apple's site and bought it for 47.95. it's web hosting, push email and online storage without ads.

[milo]

A decent 1500 GB Drive is not really expensive anymore, you can get a Seagate Freeagent Desk (don't bother with the more expensive Mac version) for about 130 Dollars.

I've been looking into one of those, but I have been seeing 1TB for about 135 and 1.5TB for about 170. Where did you find 1.5 for 130?

[marsbaby]

to realise limited abilities to be used as server or network HDD. Should have done homework better, would have saved me 300 euro's. Shall I buy a netgear readynas or wait for apple to come by with this (most likely) premium priced product?

jw

[calimed]

Sounds like this would be in high demand based on the comments in this thread. You could ass me to that list. I would love something like this!

I am just sad that I bought my 1TB Time Capsule only a few months ago :( I still haven't even ripped half my DVDs.

P.S. Anyone in here have a lot of experience with Hand Brake? I would say 1 out of 5 movies I rip gets all screwed up with either the audio out of sync or chapters being skipped and screwed up video etc. Is this pretty common with HB??? It is starting to really piss me off :mad:

Bring on the Time Capsule Pro Apple :D

No real issues with HB here. I've only done about 70 DVD's though. I use the Apple TV setting.

Still wishing I could rip Blue-ray though. I've don't have a PC.

[Robby9279]

This would be so cool. :cool:

[milo]

And maybe this new home server will be the new "Mac Mini"?

A mini would be an awful form factor for a media server. A hardware box for this would need desktop hard drives, and preferably space for more than one drive.

I agree with others who have said that the functionality should be available in software and not require another apple hardware unit (although I have no objection to them selling one, just don't make it mandatory for the software functionality).

Makes total sense. I've come to the conclusion that after 3 months of copying moves from my NetFlicks subscription, and trying to view them on three separate Macs, there has to be a better way.

Well, first off you might want to consider stopping pirating content...

[RAMDoubler]

It might look like this:

http://idisk.me.com/ross_t/Public/mac_mini_server.png

Thank you! Me likey! :D

Now, let's see. iStore with one drive, maybe $799, plus $399 for add'l 1TB drives. Could get expensive pretty fast.

Anyone see any way it would cost any less from Apple considering the price point of the 1TB TC?

[archer75]

This would be great, but how would this work for people who have say Comcast or Road Runner with their capped data plans?



That is so 2002.

Even with a cap you can download a ton of movies without hitting it.

[bacaramac]

I think everything would stay the course as it is today with only updates to existing applications/hardware (iTunes, ATV, iPhoto, etc). For those that choose to use it, it is a simple setting and viola it works.

We will still need 32Gb iPods/iPhones, etc and they wouldn't change the experience for these people, just give the audience that would use this new hardware an option. I mean, how hard could it be to link the server with iMac for setup only and then "it just works".

I want it and would hopefully not need a host computer (like the ATV and iMac setup I have now).

Say bye, bye time capsule. Welcome Media Server.

[dicklacara]

4Gig iPhones will be more than useful - no longer have to figure out what to put on them, or any iPhone/iPod Touch for that matter. :)

+++QFT

[Oilbrnr]

Me likey! Bring it!

[Milfin]

The Great Debate will start again.


New Mac Mini or rumored Media Server?

[iansilv]

This combined with the strong rumor of allowed dvd and bluray copying in 2009 for home use could mean something nice...

But I don't see Apple doing it- I think they will force people to buy movies through itunes, which is something I just won't do- not when there are better copies of the movie available on bluray.

Give me higher quality movies than what comes on bluray, then we will talk.

Until then, MyMovies and xbmc it is...

[davidbrummy]

It would be nice to expand the concept of the cloud in this area. Rather than sync my iPhone and iTunes library to a computer for media I would like to sync it to a virtual cloud. The cloud can then be configured to a physical disk/server at home.

I am still to be sold on a Apple TV. I much prefer my Mac Mini that is hooked up to my TV. No file conversion required and VLC rocks. I simply transfer files from my Server (G5) to it as I required to watch them. I then back up everything to a USB hard drive using time machine and to Amazon s3.

[OllyW]

Thank you! Me likey! :D

Now, let's see. iStore with one drive, maybe $799, plus $399 for add'l 1TB drives. Could get expensive pretty fast.

Anyone see any way it would cost any less from Apple considering the price point of the 1TB TC?

The six drive Netgear ReadyNAS Pro (http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/content/view/30647/75/) starts at $1700 with 3 x 500GB drives.

What makes you think that a seven drive server (as shown in the photo) from Apple of all people would be half the price?

[mmcxiiad]

Thank you! Me likey! :D

Now, let's see. iStore with one drive, maybe $799, plus $399 for add'l 1TB drives. Could get expensive pretty fast.

Anyone see any way it would cost any less from Apple considering the price point of the 1TB TC?

yes the way they charge less is to do 4 or less drives. Possibly even 2 drives. Apple has been working on ZFS for quite some time. By using ZFS, you can have raid 5 like redundancy with snapshots without the need of all of the raid headaches.

Furthermore, expandability could be done either add on modules, or USB ( or even firewire or esata, though don't bet on these last two). This would give the use the ability for more storage without having to implement a whole system for it.

I have noticed that apple likes to add capabilities and functionality into products without the need of complexity and unnessary buttons & ports.

My guess it it would look a lot like a larger time capsule - with only 2 drives (dual 500GB or dual 1TB), 2 USB ports, 10/100/1000 Ethernet & 802.11n. It may also have an airport basestation built into it... although that is about a 50%-50% possibility. Don't believe that a device like this will be as feature rich as the windows home server. It will probably more like an appliance vs a computer. It will have a set of features that it does well, with little to no upgradability. New features will either be an OS-type update or done in new versions of buying the whole system. I believe these things because it is consistent with how apple has built its business with ipods, airport networking, macs & its software.

Finally, a device like this probably has a fixed price point that it can successfully be sold at to get both maximum profitability and not out price itself in the market. I highly doubt it will exceed $800 - for that much you can almost get another macbook. I think 2 models at $649 & $799.

[iansilv]

Makes total sense. I've come to the conclusion that after 3 months of copying moves from my NetFlicks subscription, and trying to view them on three separate Macs, there has to be a better way.

Thanks dude. You are the reason this media servers tuff does not advance as fast as it should. Buy your ****, then argue you can use it any way you want. If you are just ripping netflix, then you are stealing.
:mad:

[RAMDoubler]

The six drive Netgear ReadyNAS Pro (http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/content/view/30647/75/) starts at $1700 with 3 x 500GB drives.

What makes you think that a seven drive server (as shown in the photo) from Apple of all people would be half the price?

I'm a dreamer... ;)

HP MediaSmart Servers start a lot lower than that with a 1TB drive. A $1700 starting price point for an Apple Media Server misses the mark as far as I'm concerned.

Now, I don't disagree with you...wouldn't surprise me a bit if it starts out at $999. I'd be wholly disappointed, but not surprised.

[zombitronic]

I just noticed that the article used the mock-up I created! Sweet!

[Marvy]

One other thought...it would be great if this wasn't specifically a hardware product. I would be nice if those of us with a MacPro could designate a drive or partition as the "home media drive" that other apple devices could sync with.

Definitely. I hope Apple doesn't lock these features down to a specific device. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't see why this can't be done in software only. Installed on a Mac of your choice, music, photos and movies could be streamed and synced to other Macs.

Then after a few months, some hackers have (hopefullly) developed a compatible server for Linux, so that you could build a cheap home server yourself...

[Quartz Extreme]

Thanks dude. You are the reason this media servers tuff does not advance as fast as it should. Buy your ****, then argue you can use it any way you want. If you are just ripping netflix, then you are stealing.
:mad:

No.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_shifting

[iansilv]

you know, they would have to compete with windows home server- which will work with mac. so I dont think it will be horribly expensive. Besides- anyone seen hd prices these days? 99 bucks for a terabyte drive!

[MacAlpha]

Count me in as another potential owner. Given the amount of media that people have on their computers nowadays, there has to be a better way to store all this stuff.

I agree, iTunes does a terrible job dealing with more media than will fit on one drive. It would be great if it could all go on one centralized server with RAID backup capability.

[gnasher729]

This combined with the strong rumor of allowed dvd and bluray copying in 2009 for home use could mean something nice...

Result of the hard drive manufacturers bribing Blu-ray manufacturers :rolleyes:

[zedsdead]

This is great news; however, I just bought a Drobo!

[mmcxiiad]

Count me in as another potential owner. Given the amount of media that people have on their computers nowadays, there has to be a better way to store all this stuff.

I agree, iTunes does a terrible job dealing with more media than will fit on one drive. It would be great if it could all go on one centralized server with RAID backup capability.

iTunes also does a poor job when you importing a large amount of ripped movies. I don't think it is built to house a huge movie library and share them on a network.

[Macwick]

As a relatively new Mac user (since July) I don't have a lot of historical context to base such rumors on. So question is - how likely to you think this is to be released at MacWorld? It seems to be a fairly complex release that would require updates to the OS, applications (i.e. iTunes), the MobileMe service, and new hardware for the server itself.

It seems to me that this kind of massive change would be difficult to implement quickly and hard to keep under wraps. Or am I underestimating Apple? Any other tech company would have had a leak before now for a release this big happening in a few days....

[mmcxiiad]

As a relatively new Mac user (since July) I don't have a lot of historical context to base such rumors on. So question is - how likely to you think this is to be released at MacWorld? It seems to be a fairly complex release that would require updates to the OS, applications (i.e. iTunes), the MobileMe service, and new hardware for the server itself.

It seems to me that this kind of massive change would be difficult to implement quickly and hard to keep under wraps. Or am I underestimating Apple? Any other tech company would have had a leak before now for a release this big happening in a few days....

There have been products that apple has been able to keep total control over before announcing it. granted, most don't but some do. this could also just be a rumor or this could be the first leak about it.

[kas23]

The prices people are throwing around seem very steep. I would never pay $999 for the ability to play my mp3s, movies, or view files remotely. I already have all the mp3s I need on my 20GB iPod and 16 GB iPhone. To add movies to the mix wouldn't be worth it. Why pay this much for movies when I can just stop at a Redbox and pay a dollar. I can't see any other reason why I would need my movies remotely in an emgergency situation. As for files, I already can remotely access all the files I want on my iPhone. Sorry, I wouldn't pay more than $299 for these features.

[downinitjr]

...And yes, I have to check/uncheck the "let iTunes manage files" every time I add something. It works, but it's annoying.
Why not just leave it checked or unchecked which ever one you use more, then just hold down the option key when you add files that you don't want itunes to add automatically, or vice versa.

[rickeym]

How's this different than a mac-mini with a Drobo attached. I would rather see them upgrade the mac-mini. I can roll my own media server. Apple's solution will be expensive.

Of course, I will probably want one when Steve tells me how great it is and how it's the best thing since sliced bread. :rolleyes:

[jbernie]

Only issue I see with the access everywhere part is that for the iPhone & iPod Touch the streaming would likely further hurt battery performance, probably more so on the touch. Less of an issue if you have a laptop with you and connected to an ac power outlet.

[rickeym]

I just noticed that the article used the mock-up I created! Sweet!

Don't get too excited they call it a "a silly concept from MR forums" :D

[xDYLANx]

How's this different than a mac-mini with a Drobo attached. I would rather see them upgrade the mac-mini. I can roll my own media server. Apple's solution will be expensive.

Of course, I will probably want one when Steve tells me how great it is and how it's the best thing since sliced bread. :rolleyes:

you mean when Phil tells you

[vendettabass]

this is just awesome :-)

iTunes Server + Time Machine + AEBS + Apple TV

that'd be insane :-)

[SirOmega]

An Apple media server would seem to contradict the very notion of what the media server is about today - CHEAP.

HP's WHS boxes go for $450 to $799. You can gather some old hardware and put one together yourself, throw in some $60 500GB HDDs and a license of WHS for $129.

Apple is not likely to be cheap. The functionality might be high - a server for iTunes, movie storage, etc. Apple can integrate it vertically with all of its other parts - iTunes especially that would allow for one collective "home library" for all the users attached to that server, instead of individual libraries on each computer. Even streaming your stuff back down to your iPhone/iPod Touch would be great (though I would expect the content industry to **** a brick). But I don't know if its worth the price Apple will put on it. Especially for someone like me who already has a WHS box with 1.5TB of storage.

[goodcow]

So... they can't even get Back to My Mac working properly and you guys expect this thing will actually work?

[ChrisN]

Well atleast it's something to get excited for Macworld and future events....


ChrisN

[rickeym]

you mean when Phil tells you

Oh, yeah Phil. I don't know if Phil could convince me to buy one. Steve, yes. Phil, no. :apple:

[zacman]

iTunes also does a poor job when you importing a large amount of ripped movies. I don't think it is built to house a huge movie library and share them on a network.

Yes, with a huge library (maybe >1TB) iTunes really is slow. It becomes unusable.

[xDYLANx]

Oh, yeah Phil. I don't know if Phil could convince me to buy one. Steve, yes. Phil, no. :apple:

lol, I don't really have a problem with Phil...but that doesn't mean that I won't miss Steve this year. If Steve doesn't do anymore Stevenotes I might kill myself

[Clive At Five]

www.hamachi.com

Personal VPN client + Time Cap = iHome.

And what's wrong with "Back To My Mac"?

This is redundant technology.

Now we're talking! A merging of the Mac-Mini and :apple:TV
This is bound to set another new standard.

Oh great, not another one...

What you're looking for is an :apple:TV + DVD/BluRay... and maybe a DVR. Whine about that instead... just DON'T eff with the MacMini. It's in sorry enough shape as it is. Last thing we need is *less* functionality...

-Clive

[dicklacara]

Only issue I see with the access everywhere part is that for the iPhone & iPod Touch the streaming would likely further hurt battery performance, probably more so on the touch. Less of an issue if you have a laptop with you and connected to an ac power outlet.

Or... just connect your iPhone to an ac power outlet :D

[VaatiKaiba]

Would this be an update to the current Time Capsule or a brand new product? Cause my TC wasn't cheap... :(

[Sellihca]

It would be very interesting for apple to make a unit that really brings the whole entertainment (music, movies, pictures, etc) to a centralized server for the home. Here is the main sticking point:

IF IT WILL NOT PLAY XVID, AVI,MKV AND OTHER FILE AND CONTAINER FORMATS THAN THEY MIGHT AS WELL NOT MAKE THIS!!!

As we all know with many apple products, they stick to their monopoly, i.e. MP4 and apple friendly formats. This is the reason I have stuck with just their computers (just bought a MBP, upgrade from powerbook G4) and not products like apple tv, iphone, ipod....

Love the company, hate what they have become.

Hope life is smiling on you all.

[xDYLANx]

IF IT WILL NOT PLAY XVID, AVI,MKV AND OTHER FILE AND CONTAINER FORMATS THAN THEY MIGHT AS WELL NOT MAKE THIS!!!



that's a laugh. you should do stand-up...Apple doing xvid:rolleyes:

[Bye Bye Baby]

i agree. something like mobile me, but for your media. apple would probably replace the apple tv with this device, and make a service that would be able to take and aggregate media from your computers and what not.

I can't see this replacing apple tv any more than I can see it replacing the ipod. I think it would make the ideal compliment to them both. One place that stores all your media accessed from computers, apple tv and any other apple music playing and video watching device you care to mention.

What will be interesting is what happens to time capsule. Another great apple idea that needs more integration.

Anyway, the idea of an apple media server- bring it on.

[mgworek]

Yes, with a huge library (maybe >1TB) iTunes really is slow. It becomes unusable.

??? I have 4.5 TB itunes running on a hackintosh or on my 3 year old mbp. No problems at all. Can take about a min to open or close itunes sometimes but other then that, works fine.

[spacecadet610]

Oh man if Apple releases this they will make a killing. I'd be first in line to buy it.

I'm sure people will hack it to their liking.

[zacman]

??? I have 4.5 TB itunes running on a hackintosh or on my 3 year old mbp. No problems at all. Can take about a min to open or close itunes sometimes but other then that, works fine.

Interesting, is it mostly music or ripped DVDs?

[uberjason]

Please! Apple still can't get front row right. Shared cover art in front row still doesn't show up and leopard is over a year old now. Yes I hope someone from apple reads this, as they are not reading their own support discussion forum. Someone in Apple QA needs to go! When you have user after user complaining about this functionality not working for over a year on your own support forum, and do nothing, something else is wrong. I don't see Apple getting a media server right if they can't get front row correct (in leopard).

Two threads on this over 1 year old issue:

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1197140&tstart=0

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?referrerid=59552&t=461932


:mad:

[Clive At Five]

It would be very interesting for apple to make a unit that really brings the whole entertainment (music, movies, pictures, etc) to a centralized server for the home. Here is the main sticking point:

IF IT WILL NOT PLAY XVID, AVI,MKV AND OTHER FILE AND CONTAINER FORMATS THAN THEY MIGHT AS WELL NOT MAKE THIS!!!

As we all know with many apple products, they stick to their monopoly, i.e. MP4 and apple friendly formats. This is the reason I have stuck with just their computers (just bought a MBP, upgrade from powerbook G4) and not products like apple tv, iphone, ipod....

Love the company, hate what they have become.

Hope life is smiling on you all.

I'm with you. I hate that Apple can't stand the idea of someone getting their media from any other source than them. How egomaniacal. (This is why what could be really cool products like :apple:tv + BluRay +DVR will never happen.)

I, too, have yet to buy an iPhone or :apple:tv, though they both intrigue me. I couldn't even bring myself to settle for Apple's paltry hardware line so I had to hack-a-tosh... It's sad to see a company that I've loved for so many years turn into such a villain.

-Clive

[flottenheimer]

...Here is the main sticking point: IF IT WILL NOT PLAY XVID, AVI,MKV AND OTHER FILE AND CONTAINER FORMATS THAN THEY MIGHT AS WELL NOT MAKE THIS!!! As we all know with many apple products, they stick to their monopoly...
I'm with you on this one. A media server should be open and able to serve any kind of file-format.. If Apple wont provide all the plugins themselves, they should allow 3rd.parties to do so. Much like Perian (love!) and Flip4Mac allows QuickTime to play just about anything.

[xDYLANx]

I'm with you on this one. A media server should be open and able to serve any kind of file-format.. If Apple wont provide all the plugins themselves, they should allow 3rd.parties to do so. Much like Perian (love!) and Flip4Mac allows QuickTime to play just about anything.

both plug-ins are super awesome, I concur

[~Shard~]

IF IT WILL NOT PLAY XVID, AVI,MKV AND OTHER FILE AND CONTAINER FORMATS THAN THEY MIGHT AS WELL NOT MAKE THIS!!!

As we all know with many apple products, they stick to their monopoly, i.e. MP4 and apple friendly formats.

This is why I opted for MediaLink w/ my PS3 as opposed to Apple TV. Other than MKV containers, I can play every video on my Mac (along with having full access to my iPhoto and iTunes libraries) on my PS3+home theater wirelessly via MediaLink - xVids, divxs, WMAs, whatever. If Apple doesn't release something similar and ideally incorporate DVR functionality, then I see no large motivation to purchase. That being said, I do not have an iPhone or an iPod touch, so I am not in the same boat as many others in terms of their needs and the potential functionality a solution such as this could provide, which could posiibly make it more attractive in those cases.

[Spades]

Is there a reason besides streaming to an iPod that the media server would be doing any decoding? If it just streams the file to a computer, you should still be able to play any format that you can now.

[gugy]

I like this idea:

Have a centralized place where I can access all my media so I can use my AppleTV, iPhone and Mac sounds a great deal.

One the quirks I have with AppleTV is the fact I can't hook and external drive to increase storage. I want to have all my music, movies, photos, etc. in one place without have to turn my Mac on.

The server seems to be a logical idea. I hope it happens.

[Bye Bye Baby]

A thought just occurred. Wouldn't an apple device that is drobo-like make sense? It would be able to sit on your network and be wired to your main computer (as an option) and then stream to wherever it has to go

A number of disks that you can use for different tasks that are all hot swappable. You could have one for time machiene, one for itunes and the others as RAID configured for back ups or extra storage or whatever. The whole thing could run on a leopard like server system.

Now that is something I would buy.

[Eidorian]

HP's newly updated MediaSmart server just beat them to the punch.And probably costs half as much...

Not to mention Windows side love as well.

[mgworek]

Interesting, is it mostly music or ripped DVDs?

1st, I apologize, it is not quite 4.5 yet a little over 4 now.

2nd, about 600 gig of music, the rest are tv shows and movies. I do not know for sure but I believe around 50 of those movies have 5.1 audio as well (since HB and the AppleTv was able to do that).

[ndheah]

Provided it can use a display, I'm sold.

[archer75]

I'm with you on this one. A media server should be open and able to serve any kind of file-format.. If Apple wont provide all the plugins themselves, they should allow 3rd.parties to do so. Much like Perian (love!) and Flip4Mac allows QuickTime to play just about anything.

Servers don't play formats. They just server them. You don't need codecs for plugins for that.

Your computer on the other end that is receiving the files has the codecs to do that.

[Eidorian]

Provided it can use a display, I'm sold.Why?

Remote into it.

[sighlent]

I wouldn't recommend the Drobo. If the hardware (the Drobo) fails, all your data is not accessible until you ship in the Drobo and get a replacement after a while. And it's a small company, so if you're out of warranty, your data is gone for good, there's no software to read the files.

Instead, buy two same sized USB hard drives, one for data, one for the backup (Time Machine, Super Duper, Carbon Copy Cloner) of the data disk. You can use OSX's built-in software RAID so one drive mirrors the other. Or you set up Time machine, that has the advantage that you can recover accidentally deleted stuff. If you go the Time Machine route, you can also use differently sized drives.

A decent 1500 GB Drive is not really expensive anymore, you can get a Seagate Freeagent Desk (don't bother with the more expensive Mac version) for about 130 Dollars. Those drives are reliable, very quiet an power efficient (they work with OSX's energy saving setting "put hard drive to sleep after x minutes"). Those drives also come with a native OSX diagnostic utility which tells you when a drive is starting to fail (S.M.A.R.T. technology plus some proprietary stuff that looks for corrupted files and sectors).

Good point. I already got 4x Samsung SpinPoint 500GB drives that I wanted to use either in a ReadyNAS or Drobo like situation because I have the drives already. I guess I'll wait to see what happens with what Apple has to offer and I'll plan my course of action.

[xDYLANx]

Provided it can use a display, I'm sold.

I think you should worry about getting a Mac first :D

[wulf]

I call this synology ds209+ nas... or am i missing something?

[fltman]

Release one of those boxes and I will buy it instantly, this is what I have been waiting for! :D

[Kebabselector]

Maybe Apple will buyout Drobo and release the iDrobo (obviously removing Firewire first).

[jaw04005]

HP has just announced that all the features of the new MediaSmart Servers that are coming out in February including Time Machine capability will be available to current owners via a software update .

I picked up an HP MediaSmart EX470 three weeks ago for $320. :D

[Thanatoast]

Hmm, this news plus built-in ZFS capability sounds interesting...

Just add a new drive whenever you need more storage...

[spyd4r]

this would be sweet.

[mmcxiiad]

this doesn't need a display and I would guess that you won't even be able to remote into it. It very well could be made to be controlled with a seperate app just like all of the airport devices.

[rhett7660]

I would be curious on how many drives it will hold? Raid either hardware or software?

I have been waiting for just a server edition of iTunes. maybe this will be it.

[cmendill]

Even with a cap you can download a ton of movies without hitting it.

I think they're referring to the upload cap.

[mdriftmeyer]

Now we're talking! A merging of the Mac-Mini and :apple:TV
This is bound to set another new standard.

Perhaps akin to NAS via XSan [http://www.apple.com/xsan/] and TimeCapsule ala XRaid for industrial strength needs and a basic system for Home Users?

[milo]

No.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_shifting

Sorry, but there's nothing in that article that supports the notion that ripping all your Netflix discs is anything but piracy.

[joezapple]

It's such a coinkidink that it was today that I was researching the Mediasmart server thinking it looks pretty cool but "if only apple made it".
For me it would have to be Mac and pc compatible and be no more than the price of the Mediasmart servers.
If only they would... it would be great! Come on :apple: - roll on Macworld.

[manu chao]

IMHO it stopped being a niche market when Apple started to sell TV shows and movies via the iTunes Store. Non-technical users need a way to safeguard those files, and even Time Capsule/Time Machine can't do it if they don't support multiple drives/RAID setups.

Drobo supports Time Machine (with a few caveats).

[hypermark]

Boxee feels like a solution that fits into this dialog. They are open (runs on macs, windows, linux, appletv), they support many different media services (hulu, youtube, native files, bittorrent, last.fm, etc.) and are designed from ground up to be controlled and viewed via big screen TV.

Have been playing with the alpha for a few weeks now, and pretty deep and promising, for an alpha.

Here is a post on the media center space, with an apple centered focus:

What it Means to be a "Social" Media Center: Boxee, Apple TV and Square Connect
http://thenetworkgarden.blogs.com/weblog/2008/12/what-it-means-to-be-a-social-media-center-boxee-apple-tv-and-square-connect-.html

[Kusanagi6913]

Maybe I'm missing something--but given this recent economy and Apple's sure to be hit guidance for all of 2009==why is this not being discussed as an option for Time Capsule--ala software update? I love my TC but I know these are not selling like crazy and for the average city hipster or small family..this could easily do the job of a "home server" with the right firmware upgrade.

[Benjamindaines]

How about not. Can Apple PLEASE go back to focusing on their existing markets rather than always trying to expand? Pro Apps anyone?

[cloud]

How about not. Can Apple PLEASE go back to focusing on their existing markets rather than always trying to expand? Pro Apps anyone?

Hahaha, are you one of the people that are still mad that Apple created the iPod and iPhone which gives them the money to do what they do? There's a reason why people with that line of thought don't work at Apple.

[NoSmokingBandit]

I'll have to see it to believe it. The home server market is such a niche market.


+1
This is more of a niche than the netbook market. Not to mention the fact that if apple made it the darn thing would probably cost 1.5x as much as the HP media server.

[marmiteturkey]

+1
This is more of a niche than the netbook market. Not to mention the fact that if apple made it the darn thing would probably cost 1.5x as much as the HP media server.
It's a natural progression from the Apple TV - but this opens it up to more people, and continues Apple's focus on tech that encourages downloads from the Itunes Store.

Is there any reason why the existing time capsules or AppleTVs couldn't do this with an update? Both have internet connection, NAS, etc - as long as you have a computer on the network to put stuff on it (or only rely on Itunes Store content...).

[manu chao]

yes the way they charge less is to do 4 or less drives. Possibly even 2 drives. Apple has been working on ZFS for quite some time. By using ZFS, you can have raid 5 like redundancy with snapshots without the need of all of the raid headaches.

Furthermore, expandability could be done either add on modules, or USB ( or even firewire or esata, though don't bet on these last two). This would give the use the ability for more storage without having to implement a whole system for it.

I have noticed that apple likes to add capabilities and functionality into products without the need of complexity and unnessary buttons & ports.

My guess it it would look a lot like a larger time capsule - with only 2 drives (dual 500GB or dual 1TB), 2 USB ports, 10/100/1000 Ethernet & 802.11n. It may also have an airport basestation built into it... although that is about a 50%-50% possibility. Don't believe that a device like this will be as feature rich as the windows home server. It will probably more like an appliance vs a computer. It will have a set of features that it does well, with little to no upgradability. New features will either be an OS-type update or done in new versions of buying the whole system. I believe these things because it is consistent with how apple has built its business with ipods, airport networking, macs & its software.

Finally, a device like this probably has a fixed price point that it can successfully be sold at to get both maximum profitability and not out price itself in the market. I highly doubt it will exceed $800 - for that much you can almost get another macbook. I think 2 models at $649 & $799.

Very much agree.

[Benjamindaines]

Hahaha, are you one of the people that are still mad that Apple created the iPod and iPhone which gives them the money to do what they do? There's a reason why people with that line of thought don't work at Apple.

No, I'm not mad that Apple made the iPod and iPhone. I own both and love them. However; there was a time when Apple was a company that catered to pro users rather than just being another "everything shiny is god" electronics company.

[milo]

Hahaha, are you one of the people that are still mad that Apple created the iPod and iPhone which gives them the money to do what they do? There's a reason why people with that line of thought don't work at Apple.

Or maybe he's one of the people who uses one of the "pro" apps...and realizes that it sucks and that development for it is glacial?

[Benjamindaines]

Or maybe he's one of the people who uses one of the "pro" apps...and realizes that it sucks and that development for it is glacial?

There we go!

[manu chao]

Throw in remote access for Time Machine (over IPsec, ie, the same as back to my Mac), and my TC might go on Ebay.

[dopeytree]

I just want a pvr that either has network facilities i.e wifi or and the ability to convert recordings to iphone/ipod format ready to be synced. I want to be able to go away for a weekend and have my recordings all ready for me and also ready for my iphone. Is that too hard to ask for?

and maybe the abilty to transfer my tv signal over the net? at least local wifi range so i can watch tv on my mac. but if i want to record its done on the box not my mac so i can take my macbook pro out if i want to go out etc

[milo]

I just want a pvr...

Nope. Apple will never do it.

[NoSmokingBandit]

It's a natural progression from the Apple TV - but this opens it up to more people, and continues Apple's focus on tech that encourages downloads from the Itunes Store.

Is there any reason why the existing time capsules or AppleTVs couldn't do this with an update? Both have internet connection, NAS, etc - as long as you have a computer on the network to put stuff on it (or only rely on Itunes Store content...).

Does the AppleTv or Time Capsule allow you to ssh into them? If so then it shouldnt be too hard to get to your music wherever you are as long as you know what you are doing.

[mmcxiiad]

There we go!

Gosh, pro apps are a tough one. for years they were a strong reason why people purchased apple computers, and a big reason why people buy the pro version of apple computers. But when you look at how much of apple's revenue comes from ipods & iphone... wow. Also, I am sure that most macs are sold to people who are not using pro apps.

Apple needs to develop a.... ok brace yourself... a microsoft like company where things are more distributed to various divisions. I don't claim to be an expert on how apple is set up, but remember that leopard was delayed to get the iphone out. And the same team that does OSX also now does the OS for iphones & ipods.

So I guess my advice is apple should take some of that cash reserve and hire more programmers to be able to do great work on OSX indepenant of pro apps and independent of devices. I personally think devices is one are where apple is going to do huge growth in the next few years.... thus the decsion to drop computer from the company name.

btw - i too am a pro app user - but i want the home server too

[Compile 'em all]

No, I'm not mad that Apple made the iPod and iPhone. I own both and love them. However; there was a time when Apple was a company that catered to pro users rather than just being another "everything shiny is god" electronics company.

So you think the iPhone is "just a shinny thing". If anything this is where the future is heading.

[mmcxiiad]

Does the AppleTv or Time Capsule allow you to ssh into them? If so then it shouldnt be too hard to get to your music wherever you are as long as you know what you are doing.

apple tv does - but this isn't there by default. you have to hack first. giving you the ability to ssh isn't something that apple gives the users do in a device like this.

[Benjamindaines]

So you think the iPhone is "just a shinny thing". If anything this is where the future is heading.

Did I not say I love my iPhone?

[milo]

So you think the iPhone is "just a shinny thing". If anything this is where the future is heading.

You're totally missing his point. Which is that apple shouldn't JUST be focused on consumer electronics - if they are going to sell "pro" apps, they should make sure those apps ARE pro. And if they get distracted, maybe they should sell those apps off or spin off a smaller company to just handle those apps.

[marmiteturkey]

apple tv does - but this isn't there by default. you have to hack first. giving you the ability to ssh isn't something that apple gives the users do in a device like this.
Yeah, that's my point - the hardware already exists to do this every bit as well as I need it to - even the Time Machine will allow SSHing in with a suitable firmware update, I'd have thought - and hey presto, a 1TB Media Server, sitting in my room already, to go with the 160GB one sitting under my telly :)

[mmcxiiad]

Yeah, that's my point - the hardware already exists to do this every bit as well as I need it to - even the Time Machine will allow SSHing in with a suitable firmware update, I'd have thought - and hey presto, a 1TB Media Server, sitting in my room already, to go with the 160GB one sitting under my telly :)

many people have already hacked appletv to do all sorts of things.

But when you say "even time machine" I am assuming that you mean even time capsule. While i suppose that it could be hacked, i haven't heard of anyone who has done it.

I also don't see a reason to do it. You can't use it as a media server that is directly attached to a tv because there are no video & audio outputs on it. also, there is no remote on it.

If you are saying that you could hack the time capsule to be the backend of a media server, again why? it already can share any media over afp on your network. Really it is all about getting your appletv (or other device) to see it on the network.

But what everyone is talking about is much different then just a media server. It is more of an ilife server. something that can sync iphoto, imovie, itunes. Maybe even calendar or home wiki's.

the only other thing with hacking an appletv - it isn't for the everyday user. even should you use atvFlash, it does make it much more complex of a device. This is not how apple works. The build things that are very easy to use and somewhat powerful. though ease of use trumps powerful for the consumer level apps & devices.

[joemama]

Apple needs to simplify all of these offerings.

The Apple TV should already have these features, as far as I'm concerned. The only thing that is missing (aside from a DVR) is the ability to watch anywhere in the world.

And if people want Time Machine, offer it as an add-on software upgrade. It's getting too complicated.

[MHerstand]

I would totally buy this. This would finally take away the need for cd/dvd drives in computers (or at least laptops). We could just load all of our movies and music on our Apple-Time-Capsule-TV and access it all from anywhere.

A few cool changes this could allow:

Hard-drive space would no longer matter because all the things that really take up space (movies, music, pictures) could be retrieved wirelessly when needed. This would work best with 6mbps+ internet and n-standard+ wifi.
--Imagine the Air with no hard-drive but a battery twice to three times as big... drool...

They would no longer need to work on getting more and more capacity for the iPhone (mostly) and the iPod touch (somewhat) because they could just connect wirelessly to whatever music or movies they wanted.

[Spades]

If media servers are a niche, it's only because making one takes time and a certain level of expertise that most people don't have or don't want to invest. And they're still lacking in functionality with regards to Apple software. The market for home media servers is simple: Anybody with more than one computer, and that includes HTPCs.

[kepardue]

Yep, this seems very realistic to expect. Everything they need to create this device is already in place. Mobile me, Apple TV, ZFS support in the upcoming Snow Leopard server that would replace RAID. All they need to do is add seamless iLife/iWork syncing along with Mobile Me so that iTunes could remotely access a library (for those with laptops on the go) and everyone could finally Handbrake their DVD's and create a digital library (not that Apple would officially sanction that).

[twoodcc]

i'll believe it when i see it. but i hope we do see this at macworld.

[Foocha]

Here's my mockup, for what it's worth - originally posted in March - there was a lot of speculation about this sort of thing back then as a result of Steve Job's reaction at the share holder meeting, that iMacmatician has already mentioned.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_DVemXS6fKCQ/R90LZqzoLXI/AAAAAAAAADI/On2wh9hxzpE/s400/iserve_mockup.jpg (http://www.macpredictions.com/2008/03/apple-iserve-with-itunes-server-mockup.html)

The concept is quite similar to zombitronic's mockup, with stacking, cable-free hard-drives.

[Tallest Skil]

The concept is quite similar to zombitronic's mockup, with stacking, cable-free hard-drives.

Why the heck would the limit be only 3TB? Give each add-on drive two FireWire 800 ports so that you can daisy-chain up to 64 TB (no, I didn't forget the limit, that's including the one built into the original device) without wasting valuable ports on the original device.

[jaw04005]

Is there any reason why the existing time capsules or AppleTVs couldn't do this with an update? Both have internet connection, NAS, etc - as long as you have a computer on the network to put stuff on it (or only rely on Itunes Store content...).

By definition, a "home server" is nothing like an Apple TV and it's not a router either.

Judging by the comments on this thread, I don't think people even understand what a "home server" is.

It's basically a file server for your home with backup and media streaming capabilities. That's it. At most, it will stream content to your Apple TV and connect to your network using your AirPort Extreme.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_server

[iansilv]

No.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_shifting

LOL! Yeah- nice try pal.

What he is doing- copying netflix movies to his hard drive is stealing. I am pretty die-hard about my right to view the media I have purchased any way I want to, but sorry- when you rent from netflix, the time you have the movie begins and ends your right to view it.

Time shifting does not apply when you do not own the right to manipulate the media to watch it the way you want to.

[AidenShaw]

Why the heck would the limit be only 3TB? Give each add-on drive two FireWire 800 ports so that you can daisy-chain up to 64 TB (no, I didn't forget the limit, that's including the one built into the original device) without wasting valuable ports on the original device.

I have 6 TB inside my MediaSmart server right now - that's more than enough (but if I started to store my BDs on it I'd want the 96 TB from a 1394 daisy chain....).

[iansilv]

Sorry, but there's nothing in that article that supports the notion that ripping all your Netflix discs is anything but piracy.

I completely agree.

[jbernie]

Or... just connect your iPhone to an ac power outlet :D

Why the heck would the limit be only 3TB? Give each add-on drive two FireWire 800 ports so that you can daisy-chain up to 64 TB (no, I didn't forget the limit, that's including the one built into the original device) without wasting valuable ports on the original device.

For 3TB you can cover a very large portion of the market, I haven't exceeded 32GB on my iPod Touch even with a few thousand (resized) photos on it. Obviously video will take up a lot of space but even if you do say 4GB per movie that is a pretty good amount of space for the majority of users to not exceed for sometime.

Also, you would want to consider waiting a bit until >1TB drives become more normal so the stackables can have much larger drives so you dont end up with a 50+ drive tower. Right now drive storage size would appear to be the biggest limitation in making it smaller etc.

[Foocha]

By definition, a "home server" is nothing like an Apple TV and it's not a router either.

Judging by the comments on this thread, I don't think people even understand what a "home server" is.

It's basically a file server for your home with backup and media streaming capabilities. That's it. At most, it will stream content to your Apple TV and connect to your network using your AirPort Extreme.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_server
Not sure I agree. Time Capsule already offers file and printer sharing, so you could describe it as a home server, by that definition. What's being discussed here is something more - something with tight client-server integration at an application level, supporting iTunes, iPhoto etc. Integration with Apple TV may well make sense in this context, where the server sits under the TV, and is accessed elsewhere via Macbook clients.

[Maxington]

This product will fill certain needs, but they need to be relatively competitive with the price and have good compatibility to steal market share.

[hitekalex]

So what is it that this "Apple Home Server" will do that can't already be done by a Mini with a few USB-attached 1.5TB drives?

[GottaLoveApple4]

I would say that this is not going to happen because it is already basically the time capsule and they can firmware update it to do these things if they wanted. My setup is all music, tv shows, and movies, applications, podcasts, etc... all on my time capsule. Then I just add those files into iTunes on my MacBook. Then this way everything is streamed and can be accessed on all the computers in the house. Also then when I want to watch something on my apple tv I just start streaming, the time capsule boots up and it plays... Pretty close to a home server if u ask me. Yea it doesn't have sync capabilities with other computers but I can access everything from everywhere in the house. I can also print and backup on the external harddrive connected to the time capsule though a USB hub. Maybe u guys need more but it works great and that's why I don't think they will make a home server. But hey if they do then sweet but my needs are met.:D:apple:

[rickeym]

So what is it that this "Apple Home Server" will do that can't already be done by a Mini with a few USB-attached 1.5TB drives?

Yep, I have a mac-mini and a drobo setup in a closet. The Mac-mini Drobo setup streams to an apple tv in the living room. It works great and is quiet.

[MakGeek]

So what is it that this "Apple Home Server" will do that can't already be done by a Mini with a few USB-attached 1.5TB drives?

Could the Mini setup seamlessly allow any mac on my home network to access and modify any and all movies, photos and music files thorugh iApps? keep my two iPhones 4 iPods and 2 appleTVs in check?

[rickeym]

Maybe this time they can add an on/off switch. It still bugs me that the appletv doesn't have one :rolleyes:

[dolphin842]

So what is it that this "Apple Home Server" will do that can't already be done by a Mini with a few USB-attached 1.5TB drives?

Hopefully be cheaper? If it's just going to stream data and not decode it, you don't need a core 2 duo.

Personally, I'd just like a decently-spec'd AppleTV update. Something cheap to watch movies, iTunes, and Netflix on.

[hiptobesquare]

HTPC *AS* a home media server.

Does me no good to have a separate appleTV box, which can't do DVR, and can't do optical discs at all, let alone BluRay. It is still pretty easy to go down to the redbox vending machine and get a movie to watch, and it is pretty inexpensive.

I don't want ANOTHER box in my home theater. I want a box to replace most of my home theater, save the receiver, monitor, and speakers. And then I can use appleTV or airTunes, or secondary computers, to send media dispersal to other locations of my choice.

An updated MacMini with superior media capabilities, with a combination or completely separate storage array (peripheral or network-attached) for redundant backup, and network services for remote service of media libraries via LAN, MobileMe, or VPN, or whatever, via remote application, or screen/audio sharing, or whatever.

Very do-able, if done right. But buying 18 different pieces of equipment is not the right way, and one box for one purpose, another box for another purpose... may seem profitable...

But it won't be if people buy something else that will be as versatile in one or two enclosures, as three or four otherwise.

[TurboSC]

sounds like a neat concept. Lets hope Apple keeps innovating.

[Sol]

Maybe this time they can add an on/off switch. It still bugs me that the appletv doesn't have one :rolleyes:

Tell me about it. Holding the play button to shut down is a major pain. I like using the Apple TV for airtunes (like using an Airport Express) and many times I am forced to boot up my projector so that I can see the Apple TV menus so that I can put the damn thing to sleep. It seems harder to turn off the Apple TV since the last update too.

Why would Apple sell a media server when they can just add an option to do that in iTunes? If you have all your content on a Mac and it is connected to the internet why not just use that to share the files with all your other devices?

[w0ngbr4d]

The only thing I'd be concerned with is price. The new MediaSmarts are $599 (750 GB) and $749 (1.5 TB).

If you have a little know how, you can build a comparable setup for much less. This is the machine I was planning on building.

http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=13836627

This is for $528, and the price will probably be dropping. If you don't want the fancy drive bays, you can remove the backplane and subtract $90 bucks.

Once WHS is installed, it would be no different than the MediaSmart setup except for the official Time Machine support, for $100-$250 less.

I have a feeling that the high end Apple offering would push $1,000. Hell I can't bring myself to spend $500 bucks to build this when I have an external hard drive for both machines in the house and stream media from my MBP to my Xbox with XBMC. It would be hard to justify double that.

It would be interesting to see if this materializes though.

[AidenShaw]

Once WHS is installed, it would be no different than the MediaSmart setup except for the official Time Machine support, for $100-$250 less.

HP's MediaSmart software adds quite a bit of value (I'd say about $100 worth) to the Windows WHS OS. Mac support, Itunes support, a support network,... HP smooths the rough edges on WHS. (How do you install WHS on your system without a DVD? HP has a uPnP installer that runs from the DVD on any Windows system in your subnet.)

The MediaSmart box is really small, good looking, quiet, low-power, but more than powerful enough. It's also "Drobo-like" in that you only need to look at the lights - if they're all blue, she's happy. See a purple light, take a note to check into it. See a red light, open the console now and find out what's wrong.

I've done a lot of DIY systems, but the HP system is nearly perfect. The only shortfall for me is limit of 6 TB internal storage, but if I need more I'll hook up an eSATA RAID box.

By the way, if any of you have the EX470/EX475 and haven't upgraded the RAM to 2 GiB - do it right away. It makes a huge difference, and it's very cheap to get a 2 GiB DIMM these days.

And, did you realize that your Newegg FrankinWindowsHomeServer is 3.7 times bigger than the HP box, and probably uses a lot more electricity!

[d21mike]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5G77 Safari/525.20)

Won't be long before we're truly back to the original model: server + terminals...

Nisaea

The good old days. :)

[supercooled]

I think I speak for the majority when I say "took them long enough". I'm sure many of us have cobbled together some frankenstein setup in the past and have wished Apple would just release one already.

This news to me is more anticipatory than a tablet that's long been rumoured. I can't wait!

[supercooled]

Tell me about it. Holding the play button to shut down is a major pain. I like using the Apple TV for airtunes (like using an Airport Express) and many times I am forced to boot up my projector so that I can see the Apple TV menus so that I can put the damn thing to sleep. It seems harder to turn off the Apple TV since the last update too.

Why would Apple sell a media server when they can just add an option to do that in iTunes? If you have all your content on a Mac and it is connected to the internet why not just use that to share the files with all your other devices?

The Mac Mini or any other Mac could in practice be an AppleTV but they want to milk the consumers. I for one would rather have an AppleTV than Mac Mini doing the things it does. Much like what you're suggesting, it's easier to have a media server than to have to jerryrig a Mini or Time Capsule to do what a media server does.

[w0ngbr4d]

HP's MediaSmart software adds quite a bit of value (I'd say about $100 worth) to the Windows WHS OS. Mac support, Itunes support, a support network,... HP smooths the rough edges on WHS. (How do you install WHS on your system without a DVD? HP has a uPnP installer that runs from the DVD on any Windows system in your subnet.)

The MediaSmart box is really small, good looking, quiet, low-power, but more than powerful enough. It's also "Drobo-like" in that you only need to look at the lights - if they're all blue, she's happy. See a purple light, take a note to check into it. See a red light, open the console now and find out what's wrong.

I've done a lot of DIY systems, but the HP system is nearly perfect. The only shortfall for me is limit of 6 TB internal storage, but if I need more I'll hook up an eSATA RAID box.

By the way, if any of you have the EX470/EX475 and haven't upgraded the RAM to 2 GiB - do it right away. It makes a huge difference, and it's very cheap to get a 2 GiB DIMM these days.

And, did you realize that your Newegg FrankinWindowsHomeServer is 3.7 times bigger than the HP box, and probably uses a lot more electricity!

Yep, you hit on all the points that have prevented me from building this.

I'm stuck between WHS and a Synology box. Do I make my own WHS setup or buy a MediaSmart? On the Synology side, so I buy a 2 or 4 bay machine? Do I stick with the low end or go with the high end? To many what ifs.

Maybe I'll sit down over the upcoming days off and think all this through so I can stop coming back to it.

[AidenShaw]

Why would Apple sell a media server when they can just add an option to do that in iTunes?

You are probably right - Apple will probably add another wart to the pig named "Itunes", rather than innovate a new home server.

Or, "rather than copy Windows Home Server" - since WHS is an interesting approach to the problem of backups, sharing, multi-media and security for a home network.


I think I speak for the majority when I say "took them long enough".

You need to wait until after the Apple Home Server announcement to say this ;) . At this point, it's just an unlikely rumour that seems to have been prompted by HP's announcement.

[Thanatoast]

You know, I'm about to call this rumor incorrect. For it to be a true "Apple" solution there has to be a rip-burn-watch component. No point in having a multi-gig server if you can't put your dvds on it...

[Sol]

The Mac Mini or any other Mac could in practice be an AppleTV but they want to milk the consumers. I for one would rather have an AppleTV than Mac Mini doing the things it does. Much like what you're suggesting, it's easier to have a media server than to have to jerryrig a Mini or Time Capsule to do what a media server does.

It just seems redundant to add another box that basically holds and serves everything that is already on your main computer, that is separate from Time Capsule which copies all files of your computer, that is separate from Apple TV that syncs with the files you have in your iTunes library. Servers serve a purpose in professional environments but I just don't see a need for them at home where one main computer can have all the files you need. An option in iTunes Preferences to make its library available over the Net would be a lot simpler and affordable than a home server.

[pwfletcher]

Crap ... I just bought a 5TB LaCie 5Big NAS. I love it, however, had I known that Apple was coming out with a media server, I would have waited.

[supercooled]

It just seems redundant to add another box that basically holds and serves everything that is already on your main computer, that is separate from Time Capsule which copies all files of your computer, that is separate from Apple TV that syncs with the files you have in your iTunes library. Servers serve a purpose in professional environments but I just don't see a need for them at home where one main computer can have all the files you need. An option in iTunes Preferences to make its library available over the Net would be a lot simpler and affordable than a home server.

For me, I had a Mini with some daisy chained drives doing what thing thing proposes. If Apple can come through, this would be the preferred route for me and I suspect most. I don't like turning on the Mac just so I can watch a movie on the big screen while in bed or listen to a tune in the kitchen. If I can access my complete movie/music library from where ever; be it my notebook at a coffee shop or my phone at the park, spectacular. It isn't redundant at all to me. It's also the integration that Apple is staunchly known for that makes this so appealing.

[Sol]

For me, I had a Mini with some daisy chained drives doing what thing thing proposes. If Apple can come through, this would be the preferred route for me and I suspect most. I don't like turning on the Mac just so I can watch a movie on the big screen while in bed or listen to a tune in the kitchen. If I can access my complete movie/music library from where ever; be it my notebook at a coffee shop or my phone at the park, spectacular. It isn't redundant at all to me.

But how is a server being left running 24/7 any better than leaving your main computer running with the monitor off? I just see this home server concept as a product for a very small niche of enthusiasts.

[AidenShaw]

It just seems redundant to add another box that basically holds and serves everything that is already on your main computer....

I don't like turning on the Mac just so I can watch a movie on the big screen while in bed or listen to a tune in the kitchen.

But how is a server being left running 24/7 any better than leaving your main computer running with the monitor off?

Three posts, but only Supercooled understands the problem.

Sol - the point is so that you can turn off your power hungry main computer.

Supercooled - right on. You only need the low power server to be up...

Sol - the home server is a 20 watt system left up 24x7 - much better than leaving your 150 watt to 300 watt main computer running.
__

According to my Watts Up? meter, my HP EX470 sits at 15 to 20 watts when not being hit. (It has a laptop CPU with the power settings set for "green".) With lots of activity (against the four 1.5 TB disks), it hits 50 to 80 watts if I manage to spin up all 4 disks.

Even better, it lets me put all my other systems into a "sleep if not touched for 15 minutes" mode. I don't do "screen saver" - if the system isn't in use it goes to sleep. When it's time for the daily backups, the WHS will wake the Vista and XP systems from sleep, back them up, then put them back to sleep.

Apple Media Server:
- no GPU if there's no video output
(below)

The HP MediaSmart server has no GPU - there are no keyboard/video/mouse ports on the box. This system is meant to live in a closet or ventilated cabinet.

Normal access is through the web console (even for system load and restore). Power users can use RDP to log in, but there are warnings that power users can screw the system up by using native Windows Server 2003 commands and wizards.


Then the hassle of managing it all from a "main" computer.

And if, as is more frequently the case, your "main computer" is a laptop - the fact that when the laptop's gone so is the content!


It's far from a niche product, IMHO. In fact, it's long overdue.

Long overdue for the Mac perhaps, but the "rest of us" have been using Windows Home Server for quite some time ;) .

[Yvan256]

But how is a server being left running 24/7 any better than leaving your main computer running with the monitor off? I just see this home server concept as a product for a very small niche of enthusiasts.

Mac mini:
- Core 2 Duo CPU
- intel/nVidia GPU
- 1GB to 3GB of high-speed RAM
- lots of small things powered up but useless on a server (such as sound chips, etc)
- relatively high purchase cost, relatively high power cost (~110W)

Apple Media Server:
- Atom CPU
- no GPU if there's no video output
- could use a minimum amount of low-power, low-speed RAM (256~512MB perhaps?)
- potentially a much lower purchase cost, also potentially a much low power cost (say, 10~20W)

As for this product being a niche, I'd bet a lot of users are seeing their available drive space getting smaller every day, with all those movies, TV shows, video podcasts, music videos, music, 8+ megapixel photos, etc. Then the hassle of managing it all from a "main" computer, the problems with having multiple iTunes libraries for multiple iPods/iPhones, etc.

It's far from a niche product, IMHO. In fact, it's long overdue.

[mdntcallr]

I really am happy about this, a great idea for apple.

lets hope it will much like the app store, work with crestron, control 4 and much more.

if the future of the home is digital media networking ... then i hope apple does a great job with it.

[gugy]

Please Apple, make a server.

I have over 300 dvds, 50 blu-ray, 70 gigs of music, 15 gigs of photos plus my work data.
One server to add all the above, control by my iPhone remotely or by my Mac at home. Simple to use like Apple software. Instant Time Machine backups.

I am sold. I hope it happens in 2009. ;)

I love the AppleTV concept, the lack of storage is what is preventing me to buy one. If this server comes to reality, AppleTV would open to a lot of media enthusiasts.

[babyj]

It just seems redundant to add another box that basically holds and serves everything that is already on your main computer, that is separate from Time Capsule which copies all files of your computer, that is separate from Apple TV that syncs with the files you have in your iTunes library. Servers serve a purpose in professional environments but I just don't see a need for them at home where one main computer can have all the files you need. An option in iTunes Preferences to make its library available over the Net would be a lot simpler and affordable than a home server.

What if you don't have a main computer? What if you've only got laptops? What if you just want everything in one place that isn't also someone's main computer? Plus there are lots of other reasons why having a single, stand alone, data server at home makes sense (lower power usage, centralised backups, drive / data redundancy etc).

I'm far from convinced it will happen though. First problem is the cost, based on what Apple charge for Time Capsule the price would be a joke. Second is the complexity, primarily for increasing capacity and swapping out bad drives - they're not the sort of things Apple would have in a consumer device.

But if this does happen the Apple Home Media Server (or whatever) will replace the Time Capsule as it will do everything it currently does and a lot more.

I hadn't seen the HP MediaSmart Server range before and it looks very, very tempting and will solve my storage problems. I'm pretty much sold on the new ones and it would take something equivalent at a good price from Apple for them to get my money instead.

[Sol]

What if you don't have a main computer? What if you've only got laptops? What if you just want everything in one place that isn't also someone's main computer? Plus there are lots of other reasons why having a single, stand alone, data server at home makes sense (lower power usage, centralised backups, drive / data redundancy etc).

All good reasons for a server, especially the power usage. I can see the need for something like this when SSDs become standard on all laptops and maybe even desktops; what computers gain in speed they will lose in storage capacity so a server (based on large capacity hard drives) could be more useful then.

[BrokenChairs]

Yay, hooray! Hopefully they do develop something very soon. Now that we've grown more in computers and techy stuff, lots of people are now accessing and creating more media and this fits in perfectly.

[hitekalex]

Could the Mini setup seamlessly allow any mac on my home network to access and modify any and all movies, photos and music files thorugh iApps? keep my two iPhones 4 iPods and 2 appleTVs in check?

In a nutshell - yes.

[derryquinn]

Anyone remember this?

http://att.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150564&d=1230622127

Ties in quite well, I think...
[Via US Patent and Trademark Office|USPTO (http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=%2220080189390%22.PGNR.&OS=DN/20080189390&RS=DN/20080189390)]

[Sehnsucht]

Ugly mock-up:

http://att.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137134&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1222584093

:eek: :eek: That's not ugly at all!!!!!!! That's what the xMac cube should look like...except with the Apple logo on the side and maybe a couple tray-loading Blu-Ray drives or three. :D :D

I know, I know...it shall never be. :rolleyes:

[robbyx]

About freakin' time!!! I don't understand what has taken this long. It's such an OBVIOUS product.

[Evangelion]

Thanks dude. You are the reason this media servers tuff does not advance as fast as it should. Buy your ****, then argue you can use it any way you want. If you are just ripping netflix, then you are stealing.
:mad:

Let's not go RIAA here and call copyright-infringement "stealing" mmmmmkay?

[Evangelion]

What he is doing- copying netflix movies to his hard drive is stealing.

The fact that you just said that, means that you have swallowed the RIAA bullcrap, hook, line and sinker. It's not stealing. It's copyright-infringement. Staling would be if he walked in to store, did a five-finger discount on a DVD and walked out. THAT is stealing!

No, I'm not trying to defend what he does, since it's still wrong. But he's not stealing anything.

I am pretty die-hard about my right to view the media I have purchased any way I want to

And I'm pretty die-hard about calling things by their real names. And copyright-infringement is NOT stealing. Never has been, and ever will.

It's like if you had a nice Ferrari, and I made an identical copy of it for myself using a matter-replicator, and you then started claiming that I "stole" your car, even though it is still parked in your driveway....

[chedda]

It appears apple has done their research about our itunes libraries and usage habits through the genius feature of itunes, this way they understand the market and know what we want, the basic fact is that 99% of libraries are expanding some like me are reaching the 1TB limit where itunes slows down.

[Quu]

Here is my Mockup if you will. ;)

I made this based on the mockup earlier in the thread, I really liked the white one but I thought it may look even more sexy in Black (And thus match the majority of home consumer devices and perhaps even the way Apple is headed with their consumer gear).

You may wonder why I added 8 Drives, that is because this is my Mockup and I really love large amounts of storage. All the current NAS's on the market are 1-4 drives then you hit a 'Money Wall' where the prices double or triple to get 6 or 8 drives. I would hope that Apple will do an 8 Drive NAS (if they are doing a NAS at all) however unlikely it would be. So anyway my Dream/Mockup

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/959/cubehk5.png

[soLoredd]

I would say that this is not going to happen because it is already basically the time capsule and they can firmware update it to do these things if they wanted. My setup is all music, tv shows, and movies, applications, podcasts, etc... all on my time capsule. Then I just add those files into iTunes on my MacBook. Then this way everything is streamed and can be accessed on all the computers in the house. Also then when I want to watch something on my apple tv I just start streaming, the time capsule boots up and it plays... Pretty close to a home server if u ask me. Yea it doesn't have sync capabilities with other computers but I can access everything from everywhere in the house. I can also print and backup on the external harddrive connected to the time capsule though a USB hub. Maybe u guys need more but it works great and that's why I don't think they will make a home server. But hey if they do then sweet but my needs are met.:D:apple:

Well, my question is how do you use your AppleTV with your Time Capsule? I thought you had to have iTunes open somewhere for your AppleTV to access these files? Also, how do you sync your iPod/iPhone with that setup? How do you put music/movies on them?

[Jiff Lemon]

I really would love to see an apple solution; As someone who's bought into apple a lot (4 macs, AEB and expresses, touch and ipod), a central storage point is long overdue.

I'm currently trialling a evaluation version of WHS on some old hardware, and I've also looked at a Linux home server (http://www.amahi.org/) which looks quite promising.

If the rumour is true it's a welcome one. However, given the recent stuff from apple, I've a feeling that even if it's true, I'll be disappointed.

The new HP looks superb value for money and the mac support, even though limited, is a welcome addition. And that's the problem.....
Look at what the Cheap HP offers; 1 x 750gb hotswappable drive with space for three more, 2gb ram, E-sata and 3x USB2 ports. All that for $549. Compare that with a 1tb time capsule at $499.

Still, I'll keep my fingers crossed!

[edesignuk]

Sounds like something Apple would do, make a great product but to have it be useful force a MobileMe subscription on you.

[AidenShaw]

The new HP looks superb value for money and the mac support, even though limited, is a welcome addition. And that's the problem.....

Look at what the Cheap HP offers; 1 x 750gb hotswappable drive with space for three more, 2gb ram, E-sata and 3x USB2 ports. All that for $549. Compare that with a 1tb time capsule at $499.

A couple of other advantages over the Time Capsule:

* WHS allows for "Folder Duplication" - if you have two or more drives in the MediaSmart, you can specifiy which shared folders should be duplicated across two drives.

This is essentially RAID-1, but on a per-folder basis. You can choose whether data needs duplication (at double the space usage), or not. (For example keep purchased music duplicated, but not the CD/DVD rips - the CDs are already backups.)

* An external drive can either be added to the storage pool, or used as an external backup device.

If used as an external backup, it can be disconnected and stored offsite. Keep it at the office, parent's or friend's house. In case of fire, theft or other damage to your home - you have a safe copy.

* You can upgrade the 2nd through 4th drives - tell the system to "remove" a drive, then replace it with a larger drive.

[Jiff Lemon]

Yup! but the point I was making is that apple don't make cheap hardware....

So mock ups of multiple drive Cubes are all well and good, but I can't see it happening at a competitive price :(

[Full of Win]

Makes total sense. I've come to the conclusion that after 3 months of copying moves from my NetFlicks subscription, and trying to view them on three separate Macs, there has to be a better way.

Well, first off you might want to consider stopping pirating content...

Two words: FAIR USE

Since I do not lease, redistribute, sell access, allow downloading, rent or otherwise share the movies I make copies of, I don't see how this is pirating. Using your definition, copying pages from a book at the library strictly for personal use only would be "pirating content".

[Sol]

Two words: FAIR USE

Since I do not lease, redistribute, sell access, allow downloading, rent or otherwise share the movies I make copies of, I don't see how this is pirating. Using your definition, copying pages from a book at the library strictly for personal use only would be "pirating content".

Here here. Ripping and converting a DVD is not piracy unless copies are distributed, especially for money. If I want to watch a movie on my Apple TV 10 weeks after the DVD it was ripped from was returned to the video store that is my prerogative. Money has changed hands for the rental so everyone from the video store clerk to the actors in the film get paid and in most cases I would watch the movie once and forget about it. Fair use?

[Vanilla]

please dear God make this rumour true...

[ukor]

A mini would be an awful form factor for a media server. A hardware box for this would need desktop hard drives, and preferably space for more than one drive.

I agree with others who have said that the functionality should be available in software and not require another apple hardware unit (although I have no objection to them selling one, just don't make it mandatory for the software functionality).



Well, first off you might want to consider stopping pirating content...

It used to be called fair use before DMCA. He did not say that he was sharing it with other did he!

[ukor]

Thanks dude. You are the reason this media servers tuff does not advance as fast as it should. Buy your ****, then argue you can use it any way you want. If you are just ripping netflix, then you are stealing.
:mad:

He is buying it. He pays a monthly subscription to Netflix. How many ways do you have to pay for the same content? and why can't you get it in a format that is convenient and useful in today's digital world?

[supercooled]

The blatant Drobo rip offs leaves a lot to be desired. Knowing Apple, it will likely be in a antiseptic white theme like their Airport Express/Time Capsule and cost an arm and a leg.

I'm just hoping Apple dazzles us with something a little more original both in design and price point. I guess it's down to this and another home brew server if Apple does not deliver, we'll soon see.

Those HP mediaSmart are pretty expensive as well!

[AidenShaw]

Here here. Ripping and converting a DVD is not piracy unless copies are distributed, especially for money. If I want to watch a movie on my Apple TV 10 weeks after the DVD it was ripped from was returned to the video store that is my prerogative. Money has changed hands for the rental so everyone from the video store clerk to the actors in the film get paid and in most cases I would watch the movie once and forget about it. Fair use?

If you had said "in all cases I would watch the movie once and delete it" your analogy works better.

If you don't delete it within <rental-period> days of first watch, your rationalization fails.


The blatant Drobo rip offs ...

Those HP mediaSmart are pretty expensive as well!

$499 for MediaSmart (500 GB with 3 open slots) vs $499 for Time Capsule (1 TB with no slots)? (Drobo - $442 (0 GB with 4 open slots))

A Drobo is just a USB drive with some interesting capabilities. A Home Server is much, much more. Hardly a Drobo clone.

[ibosie]

Just what I need but hope it gets a better CPU than the Time Capsule - compared to the regular AEBSn it's a really slow DHCP router. MobileMe could be useful for a handful of tunes but I'd need at least 1TB to keep my films there too (all legal purchases, ripped to file).

[ukor]

But how is a server being left running 24/7 any better than leaving your main computer running with the monitor off? I just see this home server concept as a product for a very small niche of enthusiasts.

It depends how much power each draws. That would be the only difference. I switched to a Mac Mini connected to the TV for this reason.

[w0ngbr4d]

Two words: FAIR USE

Since I do not lease, redistribute, sell access, allow downloading, rent or otherwise share the movies I make copies of, I don't see how this is pirating. Using your definition, copying pages from a book at the library strictly for personal use only would be "pirating content".

Fair use would be you ripping a DVD that you own and converting it to an iPhone compatible format for watching on the road. Ripping and storing 3 months of Netflix for long term storage is not fair use.

Here here. Ripping and converting a DVD is not piracy unless copies are distributed, especially for money. If I want to watch a movie on my Apple TV 10 weeks after the DVD it was ripped from was returned to the video store that is my prerogative. Money has changed hands for the rental so everyone from the video store clerk to the actors in the film get paid and in most cases I would watch the movie once and forget about it. Fair use?

This is better, but still not fair use. Its better because you are saying you would watch the movie ONCE (which you paid for) and then forget about it (which hopefully means DELETE.) The problem is the video store is granting you a license (the right) to watch their copy of that movie for the time period it is in your possession, not 10 weeks later, therefore not 100% fair use.

[Data]

As long as it has the Drobo qualities with at least 4 drive bays that are hot swappable and independent in size, so you don't have to put in 4 x 500 gig or 4x 1 TB to get a raid set up for speed en security.

The bottom line for me would be speed and security since everything will be on that one device and not scatterd all over my mac's and iphone/ipods anymore.
So the thing needs te be solid as a brick :p ,and fw 800 for full hd playback would be important .

I hope this is true and that apple will doe it in there own way and make me very happy with yet another device .
Data.

[Yvan256]

Here is my Mockup if you will. ;)

It's back Jim, but not as we know it.

:D

[rhett7660]

+1
This is more of a niche than the netbook market. Not to mention the fact that if apple made it the darn thing would probably cost 1.5x as much as the HP media server.

I don't see it as a niche market at all. Heck you should visit the avscience.com or hometheaterforum.com and see what people are doing. Just look at all of the streaming based systems that are out there. Look at all of the NAS boxes that are out there. I don't think this is a niche market at all. I see it as a growing market especially since there is so much digital material floating around.

[bobyco57]

With all of the cumulative death to Mac Mini and where is Apple TV going talk on the Apple tech Podcasts it has seemed so obvious to me that convergence is the answer (and is coming!).

Apple has all of the experience necessary to pull this off. 1) Time Capsule technology is proving successful; 2) MobileMe, debugged now, thank you; 3) Ipod Touch/IP3G portability/accessibility/useability...; 4) Apple TV, more consumer electronics experience; 5) Mac Mini ripe as a consumer electronic device not a big box PC; 6) They master the user interface.
What else?

You do have to hope that Apple will realize some important hardware considerations, such as, HDMI ports PLEASE! What's this mini-dvi thing that nobody or nothing supports?

Also, make at least sort of affordable.

[fuziwuzi]

With the dropping of the uber expensive xserve raid perhaps an affordable drobo like device is on the cards ?

if it's as flexible as a drobo, i want one now.

[fuziwuzi]

I don't see it as a niche market at all. Heck you should visit the avscience.com or hometheaterforum.com and see what people are doing. Just look at all of the streaming based systems that are out there. Look at all of the NAS boxes that are out there. I don't think this is a niche market at all. I see it as a growing market especially since there is so much digital material floating around.

this idea excites me :/ is this bad

[rhett7660]

this idea excites me :/ is this bad

LOL...... Does to me to.

[mikes63737]

About time...

I think it'd be amazing if it was a tall mac mini with drive trays in the back kind of like this:
http://www.lacie.com/imgstore/product_large/4big_Back_NEW.jpg

[CyberBob859]

Maybe I'm missing something--but given this recent economy and Apple's sure to be hit guidance for all of 2009==why is this not being discussed as an option for Time Capsule--ala software update? I love my TC but I know these are not selling like crazy and for the average city hipster or small family..this could easily do the job of a "home server" with the right firmware upgrade.

Exactly.

[vendettabass]

this is genuinely the most exciting rumour I've seen in quite a while on MR.

[mymacmini]

With the dropping of the uber expensive xserve raid perhaps an affordable drobo like device is on the cards ?

Very true and so I hope, wanted a Xserve Raid, but they left too quickly. They were so much better than anything else.:( Maybe this will provide hope :)

[JW008]

Is there any reason why the existing time capsules or AppleTVs couldn't do this with an update? Both have internet connection, NAS, etc - as long as you have a computer on the network to put stuff on it (or only rely on Itunes Store content...).

This is what I'm wondering...

If all this is true, any thoughts as to the odds us "early adopters" will get to play as well? (There's precedent with the AppleTV Take 2 update and the iPhone 2.0 software)

[stubeeef]

I have been eyeing a Drobo like others here.

I have a dedicated home theater with a 110" screen and the works, I really want to go digital and rip my dvd collection to a 3TB+ home server. The big problem for me and my all mac world and many Home Theater pieces of equipment>the adoption of WMV and DLAN. If Apple would just join up and make a Home Media Server, with DVR and DLAN I would drop a grand on a 2TB and up the first day.

[rhett7660]

I have been eyeing a Drobo like others here.

I have a dedicated home theater with a 110" screen and the works, I really want to go digital and rip my dvd collection to a 3TB+ home server. The big problem for me and my all mac world and many Home Theater pieces of equipment>the adoption of WMV and DLAN. If Apple would just join up and make a Home Media Server, with DVR and DLAN I would drop a grand on a 2TB and up the first day.

You might want to look into this product.

http://lime-technology.com/

Doesn't do the dvr thing but you can get third party software to do that.

This is of course if apple doesn't come out with something. The only draw back I would see is if the system only has 4 hard drive bays. If you have a dvd collection of size 4-6 terebytes isn't going to handle it. Then add music and now hd content. Yikes.

[e-coli]

Add a movie streaming service and this would be an up-to-date product. As it is, I almost never use my :apple:TV since they put Netflix Watch Instantly on the XBox. It's on Tivo now too, which makes the :apple:TV seem like landfill. As far as this rumored product just being a media server...well...that's hardly revolutionary.

[IrishMac]

Such a box would be ace. I picked up a G4 mac mini a month ago and have it plugged into my plasma. Works very well. My plan is to get a Synology DS207 nas box, put two 750gb hard drives in it and plug it into my router and then stream from that to the mini. From doing my research the Synology is an impressive bit of kit. Drobo looks good too but lacks the built in nas (available as an expensive option I think). The HP box looks good too but a few comments I've read said it doesn't play 100% with macs, in terms of network features.

I was planning on taking the plunge sometime in the next 2 months but I might now wait and see if Apple do release something... It will almost certainly be the replacement for the Mac Mini.

[AidenShaw]

Very true and so I hope, wanted a Xserve Raid, but they left too quickly. They were so much better than anything else.:(

The Promise RAID (http://www.apple.com/server/storage/) is so much better than the XServe RAID in so many ways.

The Apple box was PATA only, the new one is SAS+SATA.

The Apple box was really two 7 drive arrays - you couldn't make a 14 drive volume.

There was no controller redundancy.

Check the specs on the new unit - http://www.promise.com/apple/raid-spec.html .

The only thing that the XServe RAID was "better" at was that it was about the cheapest per TB of and FC array.

[Yvan256]

The Promise RAID (http://www.apple.com/server/storage/) is so much better than the XServe RAID in so many ways.

Let's hope any Apple-made Media Server allows both PATA and SATA drives with mixed capacities, to allow people to reuse their old drives. It's more cost-effective and makes for less landfill with hardware which can still be useful.

I have a lot of "small" drives lying around (80GB, etc), because of a lack of bridges/ports.

[AidenShaw]

if it's as flexible as a drobo, i want one now.

A note about the MediaSmart - it's not as flexible as the Drobo when adding drives.

- The first drive is the system drive - you can't remove or replace it without reinstalling the OS. It is possible to recover data from duplicated directories, though, after replacing the system drive.

- With Drobo you simply add another disk, or remove a disk and insert a bigger one - there's nothing to do.

- With WHS, after adding a drive you need to go to the web console and select whether to add the drive to the storage pool (or to use it as a server backup device)

- To remove a drive (other than the first) - click the drive and select "remove". After non-redundant files are moved to one of the remaining drives, it will say that the drive can be removed.

On the other hand, the MediaSmart server runs at SATA speeds and GbE rather than USB speeds.


Let's hope any Apple-made Media Server allows both PATA and SATA drives...

Not likely, that would be a big mess. (And with 1.5TB drives running $130, why bother?)

Note that the MediaSmart (and Drobo) don't have "disk trays" - you slide the SATA drive into the box, and the backplane has the standard SATA connectors. No extra connectors, no extra expense.

To mix SATA and PATA, you'd need to have a carrier with a bridge chip, or two different carriers, or.... yuck.

Get a cheap USB drive box with PATA, and connect those old drives to USB. (...and hope that they aren't on the verge of failing, which is not an insignificant probability.)

[kingtj]

The Time Capsule was a good concept, but I passed on it because even if you crammed a 1.5TB drive in one, it still isn't really capable of storing a comprehensive backup of multiple systems, when you own several computers with large drives and lots of media stored on them. (I have 2 1TB drives and a 500GB drive in my Mac Pro, alone.)

Furthermore, without the ability to hold multiple drives and use a RAID configuration, if the drive inside fails, all of your backups are lost. People say "So what? Chances are pretty slim the Time Capsule drive is going to crash at the same time a drive fails in one of your Macs you were backing up!" But that misses the fact that people often accidentally (or purposely!) delete some data, only to realize days or weeks later that they need it back again. A failed backup drive means no chance to recover those types of files anymore.

Products like the Drobo or the Windows Home Server systems would work nicely for all of my needs, except the price is still a little bit too high, and in the case of Windows Home Server - they're still selling you a full-fledged computer to run it on.

A big silver and white box version of a Time Capsule that has slide-out trays for up to 4 SATA drives, configurable via web browser, and capable of automatically rebuilding a failed drive as soon as a replacement is swapped into the tray, would be ideal. (Well, ideally, it would have some new capabilities in its software, too - like uPnP media sharing support so one could view a library of video, photos or music on it from devices like the Playstation 3, as well as sharing media to appear like a shared iTunes library for iTunes users.)

[rhett7660]

The Time Capsule was a good concept, but I passed on it because even if you crammed a 1.5TB drive in one, it still isn't really capable of storing a comprehensive backup of multiple systems, when you own several computers with large drives and lots of media stored on them. (I have 2 1TB drives and a 500GB drive in my Mac Pro, alone.)

Furthermore, without the ability to hold multiple drives and use a RAID configuration, if the drive inside fails, all of your backups are lost. People say "So what? Chances are pretty slim the Time Capsule drive is going to crash at the same time a drive fails in one of your Macs you were backing up!" But that misses the fact that people often accidentally (or purposely!) delete some data, only to realize days or weeks later that they need it back again. A failed backup drive means no chance to recover those types of files anymore.

Products like the Drobo or the Windows Home Server systems would work nicely for all of my needs, except the price is still a little bit too high, and in the case of Windows Home Server - they're still selling you a full-fledged computer to run it on.

A big silver and white box version of a Time Capsule that has slide-out trays for up to 4 SATA drives, configurable via web browser, and capable of automatically rebuilding a failed drive as soon as a replacement is swapped into the tray, would be ideal. (Well, ideally, it would have some new capabilities in its software, too - like uPnP media sharing support so one could view a library of video, photos or music on it from devices like the Playstation 3, as well as sharing media to appear like a shared iTunes library for iTunes users.)


For me I would want an option for 8 bays also. Sure the price might be a little more but that is what I am looking for.

[AidenShaw]

A big silver and white box version of a Time Capsule that has slide-out trays for up to 4 SATA drives, configurable via web browser, and capable of automatically rebuilding a failed drive as soon as a replacement is swapped into the tray, would be ideal.

(Well, ideally, it would have some new capabilities in its software, too - like uPnP media sharing support so one could view a library of video, photos or music on it from devices like the Playstation 3, as well as sharing media to appear like a shared iTunes library for iTunes users.)

Funny, you've described the MediaSmart WHS, except that you need to click "add" on the web browser (it won't reformat your drive without you telling it to).

One big feature of the WHS is that you can use the web interface, and you'll never be aware that Windows Server 2003 is running inside the box.

[kingtj]

The fact that we're reduced to quibbling about the length of time someone keeps their copied data as the "qualifier" for if it's legal or illegal activity tells me we're really splitting hairs here.

As far as I'm concerned, our legal system is already overburdened with work to do, handling serious illegal activities that directly threaten human lives. It's counter-productive (and rather pathetic, really) that we've made it a *federal crime* to duplicate some music or movies and hang onto digital copies for a while! Netflix is successful because they give people access to a VAST library of movie content. They're not going to suffer financially if a customer starts ripping and keeping copies of all the discs rented from them. He or she wouldn't be able to rent everything Netflix has available in his/her entire lifetime, most likely!

The ONLY reason this stuff is "illegal" in the first place is thanks to lobbyists working for the big content industries. They decided to try to maximize their profits by letting our police act as their own personal collection agency.


Fair use would be you ripping a DVD that you own and converting it to an iPhone compatible format for watching on the road. Ripping and storing 3 months of Netflix for long term storage is not fair use.

This is better, but still not fair use. Its better because you are saying you would watch the movie ONCE (which you paid for) and then forget about it (which hopefully means DELETE.) The problem is the video store is granting you a license (the right) to watch their copy of that movie for the time period it is in your possession, not 10 weeks later, therefore not 100% fair use.

[christian_k]

How about not. Can Apple PLEASE go back to focusing on their existing markets rather than always trying to expand? Pro Apps anyone?

Even though I am not a user of the Apple pro apps, I think you are right.
I do not like the direction Apple is moving.

It also applies to the more general products. Remember the iMac DV? This was a product designed for "everyone", but in invited you to be creative! The first affordable non linear editing solution and it worked well and was easy to use. I know a teacher who still uses 3 of them for student projects. But the focus shifts more and more. Non "pro" customers are degraded to "consumers", meaning they should buy media, pay, sit back and watch and keep their mouth shut! More and more appliance like devices that are intentionally locked down and limited in capabilities instead of "open" systems and creative use becomes less and less important. Look at the new Macbooks... FireWire gone, but HDCP came! Or the new iMovie, just more like a "video family album" than an easy to use editing solution...

I am looking at linux more and more. Yes, many things still don't work there. But when something does not work in Linux, I know it is just because no one has done it yet, but with Apple so many things do not work just because Apple does not want them to work.

Christian

[kingtj]

I know what you're saying, but I don't quite agree that Apple's shift is necessarily a "bad" idea.

I think the majority of people out there really do just want to "buy their media, sit back and watch/enjoy it", and don't care so much about having the tools to create or edit their own.

When the "personal computer" was in its infancy and youth, it was mostly a hobbyist device. People who wanted one were likely to be entertained by having the ability to make the computer do new things. It was all about "How can I COMPUTERIZE this task to make it faster and more efficient?"

Now that we're 30+ years into it, the industry survives and grows only by making the computer into a commodity good that "everybody needs". That market includes the masses who aren't necessarily even very intelligent, and were only sold on that new laptop because it "makes such a cool movie and music player, plus it lets them do email and web stuff!".

Apple is catering to that demographic on the lower end of their product line, and saying "If you want to do more, we ALSO sell a set of professional-grade tools and solutions for you, that you'll probably never outgrow. Yes, they cost more, but if you're any good at what you do - you can easily make content with these tools that compensates you for your initial expense anyway."

If you're really bothered by the fact that a commercial entity dictates what is and isn't available for your platform, then Linux is an EXCELLENT alternative and you should probably look into switching to it. I have nothing against Linux. But frankly, I was a huge advocate of Linux for years, until I started realizing that I'm not interested at all in WRITING software myself. I like just about every aspect of a computer except coding, these days. Linux is a vast landscape of unfinished projects and development tools, really.

Ironically, one of the BEST uses I see for Linux is leveraging it as the core of the dedicated "single purpose" hardware appliances you say you're not fond of.


Even though I am not a user of the Apple pro apps, I think you are right.
I do not like the direction Apple is moving.

It also applies to the more general products. Remember the iMac DV? This was a product designed for "everyone", but in invited you to be creative! The first affordable non linear editing solution and it worked well and was easy to use. I know a teacher who still uses 3 of them for student projects. But the focus shifts more and more. Non "pro" customers are degraded to "consumers", meaning they should buy media, pay, sit back and watch and keep their mouth shut! More and more appliance like devices that are intentionally locked down and limited in capabilities instead of "open" systems and creative use becomes less and less important. Look at the new Macbooks... FireWire gone, but HDCP came! Or the new iMovie, just more like a "video family album" than an easy to use editing solution...

I am looking at linux more and more. Yes, many things still don't work there. But when something does not work in Linux, I know it is just because no one has done it yet, but with Apple so many things do not work just because Apple does not want them to work.

Christian

[MDiddy]

2) MobileMe, debugged now, thank you;.

I beg to differ. I get spammed and phished something awful through MobileMe. Trying this new ointment but haven't noticed a difference.