...getting ready to cross the line and buy Apple!

[0s and 1s]

Hi all, long time, first time here...

I'm a Computer Science major student considering purchasing the 14" iBook with the Student Developers discount and was wondering if there are any people out there who would advise me NOT to buy a Mac. I haven't touched an Apple since the IIe days and I'm tired of Windows! I'm doing a lot of Java programming and I hope to continue doing so on an Apple without a problem. In regards to VPC, does it work as a dual boot, or simply as another app on the computer?

Also, I'm considering of starting a business that will involve a lot of digital pictures and video capturing. Are the programs installed "easy" enough that a clueless person such as myself or Jessica Simpson for that matter could use it? Any help/advice/insults would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

[hughdogg]

Hi all, long time, first time here...

I'm a Computer Science major student considering purchasing the 14" iBook with the Student Developers discount and was wondering if there are any people out there who would advise me NOT to buy a Mac. I haven't touched an Apple since the IIe days and I'm tired of Windows! I'm doing a lot of Java programming and I hope to continue doing so on an Apple without a problem. In regards to VPC, does it work as a dual boot, or simply as another app on the computer?

Also, I'm considering of starting a business that will involve a lot of digital pictures and video capturing. Are the programs installed "easy" enough that a clueless person such as myself or Jessica Simpson for that matter could use it? Any help/advice/insults would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!


I doubt your going to get a lot of takers on this board talking you out of a Mac. As a switcher myself, I love mine, and wouldn't go back to Windows.

Can't help on the Java and VPC questions, sorry.

The iLife software is very, very easy to use. A little limited in some functions, especially if you are planning to use them for business. Take advantage of you student discount and stock up on the Pro software now. Once you get used to iMovie, you can start working on Final Cut Express (which is much more feature filled than iMovie) But if you are looking for easy, the iLife software is it! Plus, you plug in a camera, or camcorder and it just works. (Don't know about Jessica Simpson though, there are limits as to how user friendly you could make any software. :D )

Actually you could say the same thing about the whole Mac experience, it just works.

Cheers, and good luck,
hughdogg

[Grimace]

VPC works as an open app on your desktop. You "can" run other OSX programs at the same time - but it is VERY slow and memory intensive. Consider running Win98 or Win2000 instead of XP - unless you have plenty of RAM to spare.

If you even know the term Javascript - you'll be fine with OSX. I view it as the best OS for someone who has never even used ANY computer! Jessica Simpson shouldn't be allowed to open her mouth. Just sit there and look blonde.

[Stolid]

May I make a comment about why are you getting the iBook?;
IIRC only the top-most part of the line 'makes up for' the cost of ADC developer; and as a CS major myself I have to wonder about not getting a PowerBook. I understand the student membership gives more than the discount but take advantage where you can!

[0s and 1s]

May I make a comment about why are you getting the iBook?;
IIRC only the top-most part of the line 'makes up for' the cost of ADC developer; and as a CS major myself I have to wonder about not getting a PowerBook. I understand the student membership gives more than the discount but take advantage where you can!

If I were to go to a Powerbook, I'd only be able to afford the 12", and that's too small for me....believe me, I'd LOVE to get the Powerbook, but I'll gladly 'settle' for the 14" iBook.

[Stolid]

If I were to go to a Powerbook, I'd only be able to afford the 12", and that's too small for me....believe me, I'd LOVE to get the Powerbook, but I'll gladly 'settle' for the 14" iBook.
Heh. I've been saving for the PowerBook for the past year. To the point of refusing to eat to save grocery money. >.< I know I know; but I want one and have a personal thing about taking out loans (Only reason I'll ever do it is mortgage on a house). and I can sympathize on the too small; I'm perturbed the 17" PB has such crud resolution.

[Westside guy]

Also, I'm considering of starting a business that will involve a lot of digital pictures and video capturing. Are the programs installed "easy" enough that a clueless person such as myself or Jessica Simpson for that matter could use it? Any help/advice/insults would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

I had some trouble with the Mac apps at first, because I was used to how things worked on Windows. But usually my Mac-ish friend would say to me "okay, what would be the intuitive way to do that?"; I'd think about it, and 90%+ of the time the intuitive is how the Mac would do it (unlike Windows obviously! hehe)

If you're a CS major, another plus to getting the Mac is it has the BSD (Unix-y) underbelly available from the terminal. If you're already Unix-savvy then this isn't that big a deal - but if you don't have much exposure to non-Windows OSes this'll be a nice learning (and resume-padding) opportunity for you.

Where I work most of the servers that I have to interact with are running Red Hat Linux, so I find the command line on my Powerbook invaluable.

[Stolid]

I had some trouble with the Mac apps at first, because I was used to how things worked on Windows. But usually my Mac-ish friend would say to me "okay, what would be the intuitive way to do that?"; I'd think about it, and 90%+ of the time the intuitive is how the Mac would do it (unlike Windows obviously! hehe)

If you're a CS major, another plus to getting the Mac is it has the BSD (Unix-y) underbelly available from the terminal. If you're already Unix-savvy then this isn't that big a deal - but if you don't have much exposure to non-Windows OSes this'll be a nice learning (and resume-padding) opportunity for you.

Where I work most of the servers that I have to interact with are running Red Hat Linux, so I find the command line on my Powerbook invaluable.
I hate to play devils advocate but I really feel I have to.
#1) The problems I have with the Mac seem (and still seem) unintuitive to me. If I close the window to a 'single window' app; I think the program will (and should) close - for Word its debatable I suppose.
#2) The Mac's "Top level" menu bar violates proximity. If I put a window at the bottom of the screen it breaks my attention if I need to go to the top of the screen to perform an action. And if I click too early -- focus on another app or the finder and I have to go /all the way back/ to the bottom-of-screen app and click it and start over. I can use keyboard shortcuts but when I use the mouse its normally because I haven't memorized the shortcut for that act yet.
#3) If I click and drag a disc to the trash; it ejects (yes, the icon changes I know) -- if I take a 'disc image' to the trash the icon changes to eject but (from what I've seen) it deletes the image. Qua?
The parts of the interface that are intuitive, I normally figured out just by using it. Some parts of this the Mac does really well, of course, but others it doesn't. I'm being nitpicky here on purpose.

The BSD core is nice of course; but really I'm surprised at the way CS programs stress UNIX cores. IT work uses UNIX all the time (webservers and whatnot); but CS work tends to be either OS generic (higher level design) or consumer oriented (which means Windows or MacOS X generally). About 75% of the CS classes I've been in/observed/etc are UNIX oriented. 75% of the CS jobs I see are Windows. This gets into a lot of personal beefs so I'll stop now; suffice it to say I think CS (undergraduate) degrees are 'pieces of paper' for anyone who plans to do real CS work.
I've found lots of people who claim the supperiority of UNIX but until MacOS X I found it utterly inferior to Windows. RPM packages (as one example) made binary installs a pain, and if you didn't go a package installs you got tar.gz files you had to install by hand. I could put up with it but it doesn't compare to Windows/Mac "install this" "done" system. (Ports and Gentoo emerge is the only other UNIX I really appreciate, it gives me a Slackware/DOS style control without making me hunt down packages/prereqs).
I could go on and on but I seem hostile enough I think. Don't let me discourage you/perturb you; like I said -- sorta playing devil's advocate.

[0s and 1s]

Gee, thanks, devil's advocate! Add more confusion to me head, why don't yah? :p

What to do, what to do...

BTW..thanks for the advice, folks. I really appreciate it. Lots of nice people on this BBS. Keep it coming!

[0s and 1s]

VPC works as an open app on your desktop. You "can" run other OSX programs at the same time - but it is VERY slow and memory intensive. Consider running Win98 or Win2000 instead of XP - unless you have plenty of RAM to spare.

If I could, I'd run Win2000 VPC on my Mac. How much RAM would you recommend? 512?

[Stolid]

If I could, I'd run Win2000 VPC on my Mac. How much RAM would you recommend? 512?
I'd recommend 512 as a 'going rate' if you can at all afford it; benifits seem, from what I've seen (feel free to correct), level out at 1024.
VPC performance hasn't been very good, and it doesn't work on G5s (though you're getting an iBook so no worries) - so what do you want to have it for?
Don't expect anything that reqs a Pentium3 to work. Most demanding app I'd suggest are your office apps and Visual Studio if you don't mind waiting on long compiles. :P Until xCode gets Intellisense I'll probably grab a PPC compiler for it and write code in VS -- though I haven't decided if I want the pain of using VPC to run it or the pain of doing code writing on machine A and running on machine B. :P

[0s and 1s]

Well, I don't REALLY need VPC, but I'd figure that I would need to use it to run Java dev. apps. As of now, I'm using JBuilder (which is trash!!...but that's for another thread...) and as far as I know, it's only available for Linux and Windows. I like the 12" PB, and now that I'm reading up on it, isn't it widescreen? If so, it's an obvious choice to go for the 12" PB over the 14" iBook that I originally wanted. As I've pointed out, the student developer discount will help a lot! Oh...is MSN available on Apple??

[Stolid]

Well, I don't REALLY need VPC, but I'd figure that I would need to use it to run Java dev. apps. As of now, I'm using JBuilder (which is trash!!...but that's for another thread...) and as far as I know, it's only available for Linux and Windows. I like the 12" PB, and now that I'm reading up on it, isn't it widescreen? If so, it's an obvious choice to go for the 12" PB over the 14" iBook that I originally wanted. As I've pointed out, the student developer discount will help a lot! Oh...is MSN available on Apple??
I've used MSN Messanger on my friend's Apple if thats what you mean
And why the heck do Java development; if you're using the PC at least use C#; far supperior :D

[0s and 1s]

I'm talking about the MSN software....and I don't know why my school's program wants us to focus on Java...no C, C#, B flat, etc. They're probably funded by Sun.

[Stolid]

I'm talking about the MSN software....and I don't know why my school's program wants us to focus on Java...no C, C#, B flat, etc. They're probably funded by Sun.
Java == Fugly
Same thing as my above UNIX rant; schools are stupid.
"OBJEACT ORIEANTED SI GOOD!!!!! KNOW OTHER THESIGN PATRN EVAR!" - profstupid
"OMG! SO GOOD! UZ NOTHING BUT!" - cirriculum manager
"I NO! WE US TEH JAVA! JAVA ONLY SI OBJEACT" - profstupid
:P
Object Oriented is great and useful; but the way Java does it (and more specifically, the way its taught) it really bad.
I've actually seen "All object oriented programs are simulations" -- which takes the metaphore WAY too far. And leads to stupid questions (i.e. the "Mugger" question as my roomie calls it)
But soapbox=off for the moment :P

Stolid
PS: Mugger problem
If I have a Mugger object, and a Muggee object, which one gets the Mug method?
Answer: Wow. Horrible use of OOP.

[0s and 1s]

PS: Mugger problem
If I have a Mugger object, and a Muggee object, which one gets the Mug method?
Answer: Wow. Horrible use of OOP.

Great one! And it's true!...LOL...

[iJon]

just to let you know, you would only be able to afford the 12" powerbook. the 14" ibook and the 12" powerbook have the screen resolution of 1024 x 768. you will only get a bigger version of what's on the screen, not any extra real estate. just something to consider if you didnt already know that.

iJon

[0s and 1s]

Why would I be able to ONLY afford a 12" PB? If I wanted to, I could buy the 17" but it wouldn't make any financial sense to do so.

[iJon]

Why would I be able to ONLY afford a 12" PB?
I don't know, maybe cause you said this

"I'd only be able to afford the 12""

just a guess though ;)

iJon

[Stolid]

I don't know, maybe cause you said this

"I'd only be able to afford the 12""

just a guess though ;)

iJon
Yeah; though in some ways I'm surprised there isn't a 15" cheaper (12 may have a smaller screen but it has to miniaturized that much more) And the 17" has some limitations on where you can use it (I hear on places like a plane its a real PITA)

[iJon]

Yeah; though in some ways I'm surprised there isn't a 15" cheaper (12 may have a smaller screen but it has to miniaturized that much more) And the 17" has some limitations on where you can use it (I hear on places like a plane its a real PITA)
well in that case the 14" ibook will be perfect for you. the 12 is small, but is very nice. but i couldnt imagine it being my only machine. i think im able to endure it just cause i have a g5 with a 20" screen, so i can do all my window intensive work on there. if i had to have just one mac i would get the 15", perfect size and weight, best of everything. the 17" is nice but is to big for many people's taste. my dad takes his on the plane and he doesn't have a problem with it at all.

iJon

[Stolid]

well in that case the 14" ibook will be perfect for you. the 12 is small, but is very nice. but i couldnt imagine it being my only machine. i think im able to endure it just cause i have a g5 with a 20" screen, so i can do all my window intensive work on there. if i had to have just one mac i would get the 15", perfect size and weight, best of everything. the 17" is nice but is to big for many people's taste. my dad takes his on the plane and he doesn't have a problem with it at all.

iJon
Really? Good to hear. I want a 17" (but first I'm waiting for line updates, I want a faster processor as well as higher resolution on the screen) Anyway; getting OT. Sorry.

[baby duck monge]

Well, I don't REALLY need VPC, but I'd figure that I would need to use it to run Java dev. apps. As of now, I'm using JBuilder (which is trash!!...but that's for another thread...) and as far as I know, it's only available for Linux and Windows.

you could always just pick a flavor of linux and make your machine dual-boot. you can download them for free, and you have a lot of choices. also sure to be faster than running anything through VPC.

[kylos]

As far as java on a mac is concerned. Xcode can be used for java, though you wont be able to do command line stuff from it. I usually code in Textedit or vi and compile in the terminal. There's no dl'ing involved in getting your mac ready for java. You can code out of the box. If you want syntax highlighting, you can load xcode from your dev tools cd for free (a documentation browser is also included with the devtools). If you want a development suite, with which you can compile command-line only code then you'll have to buy something. I haven't done that yet and really don't have any issues with java development on mac os x.

[Westside guy]

The BSD core is nice of course; but really I'm surprised at the way CS programs stress UNIX cores.

This seems to depend on what school you're going to, how big the CS department is and what track you're on. I've run into CS majors who don't know UNIX from a hole in the ground - these are the ones that will come take courses in our department (Elec. Engr.) and express wonderment that we're running some Webserver other than IIS. :D But I KNOW that the program over there isn't that Windows-centric; so it must be whatever the student's particular emphasis is.

Then again I know faculty personally who believe "why would anyone NOT want to run Windows?", as well as others who are rabidly anti-Windows. Just because they're smart doesn't mean they've set their biases aside, apparently. :p

[Stolid]

Then again I know faculty personally who believe "why would anyone NOT want to run Windows?", as well as others who are rabidly anti-Windows. Just because they're smart doesn't mean they've set their biases aside, apparently. :p
Heh; true. I find I get lots of hate for doing it though. Over here I always note I seem virulently pro-MS. I go talk to a friend of mine that wants to work for MS and have to defend UNIX. Both have their flaws and uses, strengths and weaknesses.
ie. (IMHOs):
xCode is trash compared to Visual Studio (um... Intellisense please?)
Drag-and-Drop is unparalleled on the Mac
Outlook is... Outlook *cringe*
etc. etc.
Mac really impressed me that they went UNIX and got away from 'lets track down the missing package' installs; which still make me cringe when I see Linux (as well as the complete lack of a unified UI design; which I understand is due to policy-freeness of X but still)

I find a lot of the arguments I hear about these sorts of things are silly:
I once heard an argument something like this:
"commercial software comes out all the time, but is buggy and crash prone. Open source software is very crash proof but takes forever to come out. We should have the Open Source people go code on commercial products and we'll get crash-free ones fast!" -- this was a serious argument.
Open Source avoids bugs because it has no release date. If MS said (and they have) "We need more time to work out bugs" people whine that its taking too long, if they put it out now people whine about the bugs.

anyway; to be honest what I really want to do is go talk to an Apple engineer about my laptop design :P . I'm quite proud of it -- I think its sorta Apple-ish but sorta not. I'll give details if you're curious, just Private-Message/AIM me.
Wow I got off topic.
*pull pull*
Yeah; CS programs need to get their acts together. Any 'real' CS student (IMO) needs to know about Windows and/or Mac (AKA "Consumer") programming and design, basic design patterns - not just OOP or some other buzzword, UNIX, multiple languages (I'd recommend 1 scripting highlevel, 1 midlevel like C, and assembly of some architecture) as well as design classes for HI, etc etc. Unfortunatly CS seems to be being treated as "Advanced IT" so you end up putting out 'really good' Sys-Admins of some sort or another who know how to code in one language in one design pattern. Blah.
Java support on the Mac is pretty good from what I've seen though; look at the "Intro to cocoa" video on Apple's developer page for the WWDC -- Java is built in to the system at the same level as Carbon/Cocoa according to that. So it should work decently :P.

[0s and 1s]

Note to self: Learn C#.

Is anyone a member to the Apple Developer program? I was wondering what the discount will be for a 12" PB.

[Krizoitz]

Note to self: Learn C#.

Is anyone a member to the Apple Developer program? I was wondering what the discount will be for a 12" PB.

Hardware Discount Info (US) (http://developer.apple.com/membership/usa.html)

[Fukui]

Heh; true. I find I get lots of hate for doing it though. Over here I always note I seem virulently pro-MS. I go talk to a friend of mine that wants to work for MS and have to defend UNIX. Both have their flaws and uses, strengths and weaknesses.
ie. (IMHOs):
xCode is trash compared to Visual Studio (um... Intellisense please?)

Uh, whats this then?

[Stolid]

Uh, whats this then?
Well; tell me what preferences pane you turn that on in (seriously, please do); and if the answer is "you don't" then its not intellisense - its some form of context help (which can often be useful but the whole point of intellisense is to be automatic and noninterfering) - and the box is /way/ to big if something like that pops up every time I start typing a method I'll get in lots o trouble if I want to look through a list like that and covers some embedded 4-times statement (akin to: [[[[joe getMy:Dog] action:Sit] praise:DogReward] dismiss:Dog] for example) -- when I start looking at a 4 page, screen filling list of 'praise' enums or something I might get lost, and the whole point of intellisense is to let you explore options without needing to stop coding.

0s and 1s: just remember C# is really a .NET language :P Its one of the things I know I'm gonna hate not having in Apple-land. If you're gonna switch learn ObjectiveC. :) ((on the other hand, I've often heard "C# is similar to Java, only good", and I agree on what they mean: it should be easy to learn if you know Java)

[beefcake]

Jessica Simpson shouldn't be allowed to speak. Just sit there and look blonde.
Fixed :p

[0s and 1s]

Stolid: Could I use ObjectiveC on the Mac?

It looks like I got it down to a 15" PB for $2000:

PowerBook 15" 1GHz
512MB DDR333 SDRAM
Backlit Keyboard/Mac OS
80GB Ultra ATA drive
Combo Drive (DVD-ROM/CD-RW)

I don't need the Mac NOW, so I'm thinking about waiting until June. Even though it's going to be tough.

And that new Office04 looks great. I can't wait!

[Stolid]

Stolid: Could I use ObjectiveC on the Mac?

It looks like I got it down to a 15" PB for $2000:

PowerBook 15" 1GHz
512MB DDR333 SDRAM
Backlit Keyboard/Mac OS
80GB Ultra ATA drive
Combo Drive (DVD-ROM/CD-RW)

I don't need the Mac NOW, so I'm thinking about waiting until June. Even though it's going to be tough.

And that new Office04 looks great. I can't wait!

Looks good. If you're waiting till June though; might wanna wait till July -- if no new PBs as of then chances are VERY good at WWDC.
ObjectiveC is the 'de facto' Cocoa/MacOSX language.

[jazzmfk]

...Jessica Simpson shouldn't be allowed to open her mouth....

um......I can think of a few instances where this particular activity might actually be encouraged.......can't you?


Sorry so sophmoric. Can't help it.

....resume topical discussion.....

[0s and 1s]

OK...now I got it. This is what I'm getting for 2120.

PowerBook 1.25GHz 15"
80GB Ultra ATA drive @ 4200 rpm
Combo Drive (DVD-ROM/CD-RW)
Backlit Keyboard/Mac OS
512MB DDR333 SDRAM
AirPort Extreme Card

I'll get more memory later...now the hard part is waiting until June....or should I????? :confused:

[Fukui]

Well; tell me what preferences pane you turn that on in (seriously, please do); and if the answer is "you don't" then its not intellisense - its some form of context help (which can often be useful but the whole point of intellisense is to be automatic and noninterfering) - and the box is /way/ to big if something like that pops up every time I start typing a method I'll get in lots o trouble if I want to look through a list like that and covers some embedded 4-times statement (akin to: [[[[joe getMy:Dog] action:Sit] praise:DogReward] dismiss:Dog] for example) -- when I start looking at a 4 page, screen filling list of 'praise' enums or something I might get lost, and the whole point of intellisense is to let you explore options without needing to stop coding.

[bryanc]

I'm talking about the MSN software....and I don't know why my school's program wants us to focus on Java...no C, C#, B flat, etc. They're probably funded by Sun.

I think you'll find your mac will be a great investment. I encourage you to consider going up to a powerbook, as I think you'll find the iBook underpowered (although, as others have suggested, RAM is generally the bottleneck more than the CPU).

The developer tools that come with any mac are wonderful, and will do Java (as well as C, C#, and possibly others soon).

Given that all the Office apps, and most other major commercial applications are available as native OS X apps, the only things I could see you needing VPC for would be to test your programs for cross-platform compatibility, or for running some obscure PC-only program (don't even think about playing games under VPC on an iBook).

Let us know what you decide.

Cheers

[0s and 1s]

I think you'll find your mac will be a great investment. I encourage you to consider going up to a powerbook, as I think you'll find the iBook underpowered (although, as others have suggested, RAM is generally the bottleneck more than the CPU).

The developer tools that come with any mac are wonderful, and will do Java (as well as C, C#, and possibly others soon).

Thanks for the help! I don't think I'll get the VPC after all.

This is what I'm going to get from apple with the edu. discount for 2120:

PowerBook 1.25GHz 15"
80GB Ultra ATA drive @ 4200 rpm
Combo Drive (DVD-ROM/CD-RW)
Backlit Keyboard/Mac OS
512MB DDR333 SDRAM
AirPort Extreme Card

I can't wait...

[Stolid]

Thanks for the help! I don't think I'll get the VPC after all.

This is what I'm going to get from apple with the edu. discount for 2120:

PowerBook 1.25GHz 15"
80GB Ultra ATA drive @ 4200 rpm
Combo Drive (DVD-ROM/CD-RW)
Backlit Keyboard/Mac OS
512MB DDR333 SDRAM
AirPort Extreme Card

I can't wait...

For that much look at getting an ADC Student membership for $100 dollars - you'll probably get the system at a developer price for a difference greater than 100 over the education.

[wordmunger]

I hate to play devils advocate but I really feel I have to.
#2) The Mac's "Top level" menu bar violates proximity. If I put a window at the bottom of the screen it breaks my attention if I need to go to the top of the screen to perform an action. And if I click too early -- focus on another app or the finder and I have to go /all the way back/ to the bottom-of-screen app and click it and start over. I can use keyboard shortcuts but when I use the mouse its normally because I haven't memorized the shortcut for that act yet.


Perhaps, but the top-level menu is easier to use because you can just slam the mouse all the way up to the top. I find the Windows menus very difficult to access because I have to precisely locate the mouse 40 pixels or so below the top of the screen. Also, if I have multiple windows open within an app I never have to try and figure out which is the "active" window--just go to the top and select the menu item I want.

[Stolid]

Perhaps, but the top-level menu is easier to use because you can just slam the mouse all the way up to the top. I find the Windows menus very difficult to access because I have to precisely locate the mouse 40 pixels or so below the top of the screen. Also, if I have multiple windows open within an app I never have to try and figure out which is the "active" window--just go to the top and select the menu item I want.
The 'infinite top' I have heard before and won't argue with (despite the fact I misclick far more often on the Mac machines I use and end up having to go back and select the first app; I'm sure that with practice I'll quit this) - but on the active window... wow, complete opposite
In Windows I always know where a menu will effect - it affects the window it is bound to; with Mac I have to watch the whole screen for which ever document is active. If I misclick on the desktop then all of a sudden I'm in finder. Worse; I could misclick another app and (assuming my eyes don't catch the change in focus and name on the bar, more likely than you might think if you're 'in the flow') perform an operation (say, cut, which is in both) and get myself in real trouble.
A lot of this is acquired habits I think though; for example I very rarely open a menu by hand. I open it by Alt-(Letter) and then mouse over what I want. Now when I do go for it with the mouse I find it very easy to acquire the menu - but again, that's the acquired habit thing I think.

Note: Here I could /completely/ be mistaken
I just thought about why I seem to have so much more trouble acquiring a menu with the mouse on the Mac; so I reversed the question and asked why I'm so good with it on PC. It occured to me that when I ran KDX in "Mac mode" that I didn't have acquisistion problems. So; correct me if I'm wrong here; I did a quick test and went to a menu in Opera -- menus change color when acquired; so I associate that change (since my eyes are focused on the menu I'm acquiring) with 'click now' -- I don't seem to recall the Mac's menu changing color until you click it. So my instincts are over-rided. I could /easily/ be mistaken here; I don't have a Mac nearby to make sure this is the behavior.


Wheee; Off-topicness

[wordmunger]

The 'infinite top' I have heard before and won't argue with (despite the fact I misclick far more often on the Mac machines I use and end up having to go back and select the first app; I'm sure that with practice I'll quit this) - but on the active window... wow, complete opposite
In Windows I always know where a menu will effect - it affects the window it is bound to; with Mac I have to watch the whole screen for which ever document is active. If I misclick on the desktop then all of a sudden I'm in finder. Worse; I could misclick another app and (assuming my eyes don't catch the change in focus and name on the bar, more likely than you might think if you're 'in the flow') perform an operation (say, cut, which is in both) and get myself in real trouble.
Hmmm... I think usually if I want to do a command that is window-specific (rather than app-specific), I use the keyboard. So the "which window will it apply to" question doesn't apply. Expose also solves a lot of the problems you allude to--just use it to make sure you've got the right window first.
menus change color when acquired; so I associate that change (since my eyes are focused on the menu I'm acquiring) with 'click now' -- I don't seem to recall the Mac's menu changing color until you click it. So my instincts are over-rided. I could /easily/ be mistaken here; I don't have a Mac nearby to make sure this is the behavior.
Umm... no, Macs' menus never change color. Never had a problem with this, though. Does that happen on windows? Just by mousing over them? I'm pretty sure it doesn't (correct *me* if I'm wrong), but it would be annoying if it did.

[Stolid]

See:
http://cs.odu.edu/~tjames/images/mouse.jpg

[0s and 1s]

Finally! I'm writing from my brand new 15" PB!! I love it...and I thought it was going to be hard using a Mac...but I'm just in awe. Two questions.

How can I set up email to work with MSN? I don't know where to find info for outgoing/ingoing mail server, etc.

How can I move my music from my iTunes on my PC to my PB?

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[aswitcher]

Finally! I'm writing from my brand new 15" PB!! I love it...and I thought it was going to be hard using a Mac...but I'm just in awe. Two questions.

How can I set up email to work with MSN? I don't know where to find info for outgoing/ingoing mail server, etc.

How can I move my music from my iTunes on my PC to my PB?

SNIP

Glad to hear another happy switcher...now if only the G5PB would appear.

Yes, good questions. Hopefully you'll get an answer soon, although I am more curiosu about getting them out of media player...

[0s and 1s]

Playing with my PB and I can't find XCode. The site says that it should come with the latest OS, but I can't seem to find it. Besides this, are there any other Java dev. programs you folks recommend? As of now, I'll mostly do simple Java apps. and applets. Thanks a lot! G'night....

[whooleytoo]

Playing with my PB and I can't find XCode. The site says that it should come with the latest OS, but I can't seem to find it. Besides this, are there any other Java dev. programs you folks recommend? As of now, I'll mostly do simple Java apps. and applets. Thanks a lot! G'night....

It should come on a separate Xcode CD, if not, I believe the installer should be in the /Applications/Installer (or at least it used to be).

The biggest Java hitch for me is J2ME development (for PDAs and smart phones). Sun hasn't ported the wireless toolkit to the Mac (so much for Write Once Run Anywhere... grrr!).

Other than that Xcode should be fine for Java, or Java Cocoa development.

[0s and 1s]

I'm still having problems trying to find xcode and uploading iPod music to the iTunes on this PB. Any help would be greatly appreciated!! Thanks.

[0s and 1s]

I'm still having problems trying to find xcode and uploading iPod music to the iTunes on this PB. Any help would be greatly appreciated!! Thanks.

Ok, I just found xcode! Joy! Now to the iPod upload....

[kylos]

Ok, I just found xcode! Joy! Now to the iPod upload....

Go to terminal and type:
ditto /Volumes/<your ipod name>/iPod_Control/Music /Users/<your user name/Desktop/music
use double quotes to surround your ipod's name.Obviously, <your ipod name> and <your user name> are to be replaced with the real names.
this'll copy your tunes to your desktop. Now in iTunes, choose File>Add to Library... Locate the folder "music" on your desktop and import.

Or download one of the many apps that will do this for you.


I should clarify, if you have any more than 30 - 35 gigs of music on your ipod, then this method won't work (not enough space on your p'book). Regardless, after importing, you'll need to delete the folder on your desktop.

you could also go to finder then choose go>go to folder... and type /Volumes/<your ipod name>/iPod_Control/Music/F00.
Then drag the folder icon in the window's title bar to your desktop, holding down the option and apple keys to create an alias to this folder. Then choose this alias from itunes. Repeat this for all the F folders (they continue in order F00, F01, F02, etc). This has the benefit of skipping the step of creating an extra copy, but will take a while longer.

[0s and 1s]

Thanks a lot, Kyle! I appreciate the help!

[kylos]

Thanks a lot, Kyle! I appreciate the help!

I should point out that I'm not sure if my first method would work (would copying get rid of the invisible file distinction? or will it only create another invisible file?) since my hd is way to small to test that with. I would suggest the second because it should be more reliable.

[evil]

to get my music off of my ipod i use a program called ipodrip. it works quite well. sorry i dont have a link for where to get it because i forgot where i got it.

[reorx]

Playing with my PB and I can't find XCode. The site says that it should come with the latest OS, but I can't seem to find it. Besides this, are there any other Java dev. programs you folks recommend? As of now, I'll mostly do simple Java apps. and applets. Thanks a lot! G'night....

Simple Java apps or not, you're going to want to use Eclipse (eclipse.org).

Congrats on the new pb!

[0s and 1s]

You're right...I finally d/l Eclipse and it's a huge improvement over XCode. I'm happy with it. Thanks!

[reorx]

You're right...I finally d/l Eclipse and it's a huge improvement over XCode. I'm happy with it. Thanks!

No prob... Been developing in Java for a while, and its nice to have a decent tool. It reminds me of the cool Smalltalk IDEs that we used back in the early days of OO. A far cry from terminal-mode emacs. :D

Good luck!