Apple Reports $1.61 Billion Profit for Q1 2009

[rdowns]

$10.2 billion revenue just reported on CNBC.

$1.78 earnings per share!!!!

2.524 million Macs sold

4.4 million iPhones sold

22.7 million ipods sold

34.7% gross margins

[Peace]

Low expectations for Q2 though.

7.5-8 Bln.

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/01/21/apple-reports-1-61-billion-profit-for-q1-2009/)

Apple today announced financial results (http://idea.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/320193/000119312509009009/dex991.htm) for the first quarter of fiscal 2009. Apple posted record revenue of $10.17 billion and net quarterly profit of $1.61 billion, or $1.78 per diluted share, compared to revenue of $9.6 billion and net quarterly profit of $1.58 billion, or $1.76 per diluted share, in the year-ago quarter. Gross margin was 34.7 percent, equal to the year-ago quarter, and international sales accounted for 46 percent of the quarter's revenue. Apple also generated $3.6 billion in cash during the quarter. The results constitute the best quarterly revenue and earnings in Apple's history.

Using non-GAAP data, which eliminates subscription-based accounting for the iPhone and Apple TV, Apple would have had $11.8 billion revenue and $2.3 billion of net income.

Apple shipped 2,524,000 Macintosh computers during the quarter, representing 9 percent unit growth over the year-ago quarter. The company also sold 22,727,000 iPods during the quarter, representing 3 percent unit growth over the year-ago quarter and a company record. Quarterly iPhone units sales reached 4,363,000 up 88 percent from the year-ago-quarter.

Article Link: Apple Reports $1.61 Billion Profit for Q1 2009 (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/01/21/apple-reports-1-61-billion-profit-for-q1-2009/)

[Tallest Skil]

Hey, cool. Screw you, economic downturn!

[SwiftLives]

Holy snap. That's impressive.

As long as Apple is realistic about expectations for 2009, they should be okay, stockwise.

And Apple usually plays projections verrrrry conservatively.

[jayducharme]

Apple's stock price closed up almost 6% for the day. Something must be wrong :rolleyes:

[Cheffy Dave]

bought 100 shares at $80.00:D, go Apple:eek:

[amac4me]

A growth slowdown is clearly inferred via these numbers.

[Unspeaked]

Apple's stock price closed up almost 6% for the day. Something must be wrong :rolleyes:

It's up another $8 after hours...

[liven2]

I am thrilled to see such amazing numbers!!! I do not think a single analysist out there had predicted those kinds of results!! NOw watch the Stock tumble... Seems like everytime they have a great quarter the Stock falls like 10%...

I just check after hours trading and amazingly enough>>> it is up! I wonder how long that will last. :rolleyes:

Apple is doomed!!:p

[iMacmatician]

Whoa, that's very good. Hopefully Apple can keep things up.

[nagromme]

I wonder what the total installed user base of OS X systems is now... that it, systems you can develop for with Xcode: Macs, iPhones, and iPod Touches.

Probably a massive number--I think I'll learn Xcode :)

(You could count AppleTV in the OS X base too I suppose.)

[dongmin]

Low expectations for Q2 though.

7.5-8 Bln.

Stocks are gonna get hit...

But a solid quarter. Congrats on the momentum.

[rdowns]

AAPL up $6.98 in after hours.

[errol]

Go Apple!!!!

:cramer voice: buy buy buy :/cramer voice:

[ncbill]

"fiscal 2009 first quarter ended December 27, 2008"

might want to clarify this is for calendar 4th quarter 2008

[Blue Velvet]

But paradoxically, the greater the success, the greater it's personally meaningless to me if Apple are incapable of actually manufacturing something I want to buy.

[BRLawyer]

I am thrilled to see such amazing numbers!!! I do not think a single analysist out there had predicted those kinds of results!! NOw watch the Stock tumble... Seems like everytime they have a great quarter the Stock falls like 10%...

I just check after hours trading and amazingly enough>>> it is up! I wonder how long that will last. :rolleyes:

Apple is doomed!!:p

Apple continues to defy reality with such amazingly positive numbers in REAL ECONOMY terms, even if the US is in a financial disaster for now...good that the rest of the world is keeping the company MORE than in the good shape.

In summary, Apple is THE BEST, RICHEST AND STRONGEST IT COMPANY IN THE WORLD!

Where the hell are the PC lovers that populate this forum now? Where are the genius analysts? Any "pundits" to respond? THIS IS APPLE! THIS IS QUALITY! LET'EM HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF APPLE CROW NOW!

[rdowns]

As an investor, I'm very thankful that the public doesn't seem to share your opinion, BV.

As a fanboy, I'm not thrilled with their lineup.

I can't recall AAPL going up after hours after any recent earnings announcements.

[jholzner]

But paradoxically, the greater the success, the greater it's personally meaningless to me if Apple are incapable of actually manufacturing something I want to buy.

It would seem they ARE capable of manufacturing stuff a lot of other people want to buy. I think Apple is safe if it doesn't build what you personally want to buy...at least from these numbers.

[gnasher729]

My favorite related post a few days ago:

if they don't post a loss in this climate and in that sector it will be pretty amazing really

[rdowns]

Conference call starts at 5pm ET.

http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/earningsq109/

[Unspeaked]

Apple continues to defy reality with such amazingly positive numbers in REAL ECONOMY terms, even if the US is in a financial disaster for now...good that the rest of the world is keeping the company MORE than in the good shape.

Do you really think that the rest of the world is just fine and dandy, economically speaking?


My favorite related post a few days ago:

That's pretty sad, as even the most dire analyst predictions had them making quite a bit of money...

[dongmin]

For everyone out there advocating Apple release a $400 netbook, this is why Apple will never release a $400 PC:

Gross margin was 34.7 percent, equal to the year-ago quarter

The margin is pretty staggering. I know certain PC makers did better in terms of market share but I don't think anyone can come close to these margins.

[rdowns]

CNBC reported that 46% of revenue was outside the US.

Now up $11.50 after hours.

[oscillatewildly]

Q2 and Q3 is where it's at, the recession is starting to bite overseas.

[dejo]

I do not think a single analysist out there had predicted those kinds of results!!
Gene Munster wasn't that far off: Apple's Mac, iPod sales see slight rebound in December (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/01/20/apples_mac_ipod_sales_see_slight_rebound_in_december.html)

Summarized Predictions: 2.45 million to 2.55 million Macs, 19 million to 20 million iPods.
Actual: 2.52 million Macs, 22.7 million iPods

[Peace]

As an investor, I'm very thankful that the public doesn't seem to share your opinion, BV.

As a fanboy, I'm not thrilled with their lineup.

I can't recall AAPL going up after hours after any recent earnings announcements.

It's up because Steve Jobs spoke.

From the paper the investors get :

“Even in these economically challenging times, we are incredibly pleased to report our best quarterly revenue and earnings in Apple history—surpassing $10 billion in quarterly revenue for the first time ever,” said Steve Jobs, Apple’s CEO.

[runplaysleeprun]

34.7% margin? Daaaaammn. A good quarter all around.

[BRLawyer]

Do you really think that the rest of the world is just fine and dandy, economically speaking?

That's pretty sad, as even the most dire analyst predictions had them making quite a bit of money...

Trust me, much more than the U.S. and poor UK (as well as some of the smaller European economies)...at least you got Obama to keep the boat afloat with more solid policies now.

[Unspeaked]

Conference call starts at 5pm ET.

http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/earningsq109/

Great, now we can hear all the journalists ignore the results and ask about Steve's health!

[displaced]

These threads simply wouldn't be right without an ebullient capslock-sprinkled post by BRLawyer :)

Those there are some big numbers. I presume this includes the Christmas season? In which case, I'm hardly surprised Q2's estimates are lower.

Glad there's plenty of cash being made – Apple probably won't feel the need to trim back on the R&D during tough times, keeping at least some of their products attractive enough to keep selling.

[numbersyx]

Good figures in the economy we're in. Let's see how the rest of the year pans out..

[pipasforjaz]

Go Apple. You have the best computers.
Nice to know Steve spoke. That should calm some people down

[Blue Velvet]

It would seem they ARE capable of manufacturing stuff a lot of other people want to buy.


iPods, iPhones, fringe displays and crippled outdated Macs. Not all of us are interested in these things, just as an movie's worth is not measured by box office sales alone. And there's no reason why Apple cannot satisfy both demands on a reasonably timely basis.

I'll be curious to hear sales figures breakdowns for desktop Macs.

[bzollinger]

Laptops, laptops, laptops....now if they'll just got on the mac pro, or the mac media center!

[shawnce]

Low expectations for Q2 though. 7.5-8 Bln. Q2 is almost alway a down quarter compared to Q1 given normal seasonality.

If you take the low end of the guidance... $7.5 Billion implies no growth compared to Q2 2008 (7.51). Flat growth in a slow/contracting economy is not much to worry about.

Note Apple's guidance for Q1 2009 was $9-$10 Billion and their revenue for Q1 2008 was $9.6 Billion. In other words Apple's guidance for Q2 2009 is more optimistic then their guidance for Q1 2009 was.

Finally Apple's has for many years now consistently exceeded their guidance, they are always conservative in their numbers.

[BRLawyer]

These threads simply wouldn't be right without an ebullient caplock-sprinkled post by BRLawyer :)


My BT-enabled Apple wireless keyboard thanks you for the compliment...in fact, we couldn't hold our enthusiasm for one of the last great and well-managed American companies...especially when they keep countering each and every attempt by "analysts" and PC fanboys to put the company down... :rolleyes:

DELL IS DEAD. MS IS DEAD.

[dejo]

I'll be curious to hear sales figures breakdowns for desktop Macs.
728K desktops vs. 1,796K portables (http://images.apple.com/pr/pdf/q109data_sum.pdf)

[Unspeaked]

I'll be curious to hear sales figures breakdowns for desktop Macs.

According to the CC, it sounds like desktops contracted while portables exploded.

[slapppy]

Nice. Real sales, not automatic generated revenue like some other company we know.

[Peace]

projected 10 million iphones sold 13 million.

[BRLawyer]

"Software is the key ingredient to a great mobile experience.":rolleyes:

[Blue Velvet]

728K desktops vs. 1,796K portables (http://images.apple.com/pr/pdf/q109data_sum.pdf)

According to the CC, it sounds like desktops contracted while portables exploded.


Thanks. I know laptops are popular but by an almost 3-1 margin? Pitiful, and shows the paucity of the current desktop range in offering value and choice.

[ThunderSkunk]

Holy pants!

[displaced]

My BT-enabled Apple wireless keyboard thanks you for the compliment...in fact, we couldn't hold our enthusiasm for one of the last great and well-managed American companies...especially when they keep countering each and every attempt by "analysts" and PC fanboys to put the company down... :rolleyes:

Mate, if Apple had a cheer-leading squad, you'd be right there in that pyramid.

But anyway...

I must admit, I'm a little surprised the Mac figures have held up so well. Sure, the new laptops are rather neat, however, the rest of the line-up is a bit dull. Note that I mean 'dull' by Apple's standards. It feels like their recent desktop updates (of which there have been few) have been all about tinkering around the edges rather than aimed at dropping some jaws. But time will tell - it'd be very unlike Apple not to have something brewing.

I suppose the thing for us to bear in mind is that we view Apple's products through the MacRumors filter. The simple act of keeping up with rumours inevitably skews our opinions of the products compared to the opinions of a 'normal' buyer.

edit: I see the laptop vs. desktop sales figures now. Gotta agree with BV ... desktops seem to be wallowing somewhat. Hopefully some sort of new tech in the desktop arena will grab Apple's attention and give them cause to build something new and great in the desktop/workstation space once more.

[dejo]

projected 10 million iphones sold 13 million.
Over what period?

Cuz they reported "Quarterly iPhone units sold were 4,363,000"

[Unspeaked]

What do the other 50% of Canadians use to listen to music??

[Peace]

Over what period?

Cuz they reported "Quarterly iPhone units sold were 4,363,000"

For the original fiscal 2008 year projection.

[rdowns]

Over what period?

Cuz they reported "Quarterly iPhone units sold were 4,363,000"


Calendar 2008. As you'll recall, Jobs said they'd sell 10 million.

[Bubba Satori]

Well done Apple. :D

I've been surprised at how well Apple sales have held up during the economic downturn. My Apple sales have been very good the last six months.

Just wish I had an up to date $500 Mini :mad: and a $1K quad core tower :mad: to sell. I could sell tons of them.

[dejo]

For the original fiscal 2008 year projection.
Oh, right. The prediction so many doubters said they wouldn't make. Ha ha!

P.S. So, another 3.6 Billion cash in the bank, huh? Wow.

[Unspeaked]

BlueVelvet, they just poked a hole in your theory, as it was clearly stated that Apple is "shipping the best products in (their) history."

Doesn't get much clearer than that...

[FreeState]

Thanks. I know laptops are popular but by an almost 3-1 margin? Pitiful, and shows the paucity of the current desktop range in offering value and choice.

That and the fact that the consumer market is going to laptops in general. I cant remember the last time a friend bought a desktop. (be it Mac or PC)

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ifOcEdOzfD2OYwCWsFJUrz9QJSXQD958K6C00

[shawnce]

Thanks. I know laptops are popular but by an almost 3-1 margin? Pitiful, and shows the paucity of the current desktop range in offering value and choice. ...or it shows that Apple's current laptops are playing very well in the current trend of the market. Of course in reality it is a little bit of both.

In the near future expect the product mix to swing a little more back towards desktop systems (product updates will happen once component availability aligns).

[Unspeaked]

Great, now we can hear all the journalists ignore the results and ask about Steve's health!

And the first question was about...

[Peace]

Only an Apple COO would call their employees "wicked smart" :p

[displaced]

BlueVelvet, they just poked a hole in your theory, as it was clearly stated that Apple is "shipping the best products in (their) history."

Doesn't get much clearer than that...

Well, that statement would hold true even if they just stuck with Moore's Law and updated the CPU every 6 months. The latest machine would by default be better than all those that preceded it and thus the best in the company's history.

[EMT123]

under promise-over deliver.

[macfan881]

Nice to see that apple hasnt been hurt by the ressescion but of course this is after the hollidays and everyone and then some buys something apple related over the holidays being itunes cards or apple products etc. it will be intresting to see what apple can do in a non holliday qt

[cameronjpu]

Q2 and Q3 is where it's at, the recession is starting to bite overseas.

Q4 is generally (and in this case as well) Apple's best quarter.

[Unspeaked]

Well, that statement would hold true even if they just stuck with Moore's Law and updated the CPU every 6 months. The latest machine would by default be better than all those that preceded it and thus the best in the company's history.

Of course, I just thought it was an amusing statement.

I can't remember the last time Apple stated their current offering were junk, they really had it right a couple of years ago and it all went to hell, they're really sorry and they hope to get it better next quarter.

:D

[Blue Velvet]

BlueVelvet, they just poked a hole in your theory, as it was clearly stated that Apple is "shipping the best products in (their) history."

Doesn't get much clearer than that...

Apple always are producing the best products in their history, even the ill-fated Cube was the best product in their history. There's being an informed consumer and supporter of a company and then there's falling for their spin.

That and the fact that the consumer market is going to laptops in general. I cant remember the last time a friend bought a desktop. (be it Mac or PC)

Anecdotal evidence from your friends doesn't sway me, I'm afraid. Besides, who in anybody's right mind would buy a desktop from Apple at the moment, unless you want an all in one like the iMac? Face it, they've slacked around and tinkered around the edges with the Macs.

[valdore]

According to this site's own Buyer's Guide, Apple hasn't done jack to any desktop for nine months - the iMac. Then of course there's the Pro and the Mini that haven't been touched in ages either.

[cowm007]

$10.2 billion revenue just reported on CNBC.

$1.78 earnings per share!!!!

2.524 million Macs sold

4.4 million iPhones sold

22.7 million ipods sold

34.7% gross margins


Low expectations for Q2 though.

7.5-8 Bln.

That exchange basically sums up how Apple stock works.
Apple: "Woohoo we had our best quarter ever. Again."
Market: "Who cares, next one is gonna suck."

[lkrupp]

A growth slowdown is clearly inferred via these numbers.

Yes, Apple is doomed. We know that. What's your excuse.

[Mal]

Thanks. I know laptops are popular but by an almost 3-1 margin? Pitiful, and shows the paucity of the current desktop range in offering value and choice.

I think it's less that than Apple's correct prediction that laptops are the way of the future. Desktop machines are going to die out for all but the most robust tasks, and we're going to use laptops (or whatever may succeed them) as our only or at least primary computers.

I know I do, my wife and I each have MacBooks with no interest in having a desktop machine in the house. Most everyone I know at least is considering the same if they aren't already all using laptops.

jW

[MacSA]

Now we just need to get someone at this conference call to ask what's going on with the Mac Mini. :D

[ChrisA]

728K desktops vs. 1,796K portables (http://images.apple.com/pr/pdf/q109data_sum.pdf)

Makes sense. Apple sells conventional notebooks but only "speciality" desktops. They have no mainstream desktop product.

[/dev/toaster]

With Apple making this ridiculous amount of money, maybe its time for them to reduce prices a bit. Apple is still fairly overpriced.

[jbernie]

I was very interested to see the iPod results, I was theorizing a few months back that either they would fall as the rest of the market fell (general contraction) or they would increase because when times get tough a lot of people feel more comfort in going with the market leader as they see less risk in the purchase as the leader is more likely to stick around/stay in the market than the smaller players.

Though I had a great laugh at the CNN Money report saying Apple had sold 4.4 Billion iPhones.. yup.. BILLION... talk about market saturation :)

[Rocketman]

2:23pm pacific

AAPL $73.7 B
MS 17.7 B
IBM 122.8 B
INTC 73.8 B

Rocketman

DELL 19.8 B :)

[Unspeaked]

Though I had a great laugh at the CNN Money report saying Apple had sold 4.4 Billion iPhones.. yup.. BILLION... talk about market saturation :)

Think of how much better the world world would be if everyone had an iPod...

[Unspeaked]

2:23pm pacific

AAPL $73.7 B
MS 17.7 B
IBM 122.8 B
INTC 73.8 B

Rocketman

DELL 19.8 B :)

Um, MS is Morgan Stanley.

I think you meant Microsoft, with a market cap of over $170 B...

[JG271]

Wow, some pretty good results during a recession! Hopefully the massive change between desktop-laptop ratio should merit some upgrades soon...

...either that or they'll change focus to laptops!

[Peace]

Going to continue to invest in the Apple TV.

[rdowns]

Admitted Pro desktop sales were down. Said it was because business cutting back due to economy.

BS. Update your damn Pros and sales will climb.

[oldwatery]

Nice one :D
My only comment would be regarding the sharp decline in desktop sales.
Even allowing for a market shift I wonder how much is attributable to the long in the tooth systems being offered.

[mdriftmeyer]

Low expectations for Q2 though.

7.5-8 Bln.

Apple is notorious for underselling their expectations. Expect $8.0-$8.5 billion in revenues.

[elppa]

Snow Leopard's looks like it's slipping (from the rumoured first half of 2009 date).

Tim Cook could have said it was “on track” or “making good progress”.

But he said neither.

[alexbates]

Its a good thing that Apple appears to have a backup plan if something happens to Steve.

4.4 millions iPhones is pretty good but nothing compared to the number of iPods. I think Apple is working on that and might one day have the same number of iPhones as iPods sold. But if they want that to happen, they need to come out with an IPHONE NANO!

[lewchenko]

Desktop sales down 25%....

nothing at all to do with the fact that the mac mini, imac, and pro are all out of date and now appear over priced.

some more than others *cough* mini *cough*

No wonder they can maintain >30% margins when you can sell 18 month old computer gear for more money now in real terms than it was actually worth 18 months ago.

[Blue Velvet]

I know I do, my wife and I each have MacBooks with no interest in having a desktop machine in the house.


I'm pleased for you that Apple builds a product for you, your wife and your friends, please consider extending that same courtesy to others. Some of us need a little more than a pokey little glossy screen to do their work on, are heavily invested in a Mac-based workflow and would perhaps like to spend money with the company but not on outdated machines and displays. That's all.

Right now, I'm just disappointed. If I was in the buying position I was in in my last position, looking to equip the studio, I'd be furious with the foot-dragging.

So, to all those investors out there, sure these results might look great but they could be even better. ;)

[Unspeaked]

Snow Leopard's looks like it's slipping (from the rumoured first half of 2009 date).

Tim Cook could have said it was “on track” or “making good progress”.

But he said neither.

It's because Steve's had to take a break from coding for it :D

[badNameErr]

These are great number but - "25% decline in desktops" - ouch! ouch! OUCH!
:eek:

[bryan1884]

Snow Leopard's looks like it's slipping (from the rumoured first half of 2009 date).

Tim Cook could have said it was “on track” or “making good progress”.

But he said neither.

that in no way implies it is slipping....he said they were extremely excited about it.

[shawnce]

Snow Leopard's looks like it's slipping (from the rumoured first half of 2009 date). The 1H 2009 rumor was totally bogus...

[gkarris]

Desktop sales down 25%....

nothing at all to do with the fact that the mac mini, imac, and pro are all out of date and now appear over priced.

some more than others *cough* mini *cough*

Soon, but with the Intel Atom... (runs and hides....)

One of those iPods is mine.... :)

Work got me a $100 gift card for Christmas and I got a Nano and Nike+ :D

[bryan1884]

Going to continue to invest in the Apple TV.

best news of the call so far imo

[Peace]

It's because Steve's had to take a break from coding for it :D

You don't realize how close to a true statement that is.

[shawnce]

You don't realize how close to a true statement that is. Huh? Steve has essentially nothing to do with Mac OS X coding.

[BklynKid]

Recession? What recession?

[Peace]

Huh? Steve has essentially nothing to do with Mac OS X coding.

His ideas have a lot to do with it.

[99MustangGTman]

And they say they're losing money.

[Bubba Satori]

I'm pleased for you that Apple builds a product for you, your wife and your friends, please consider extending that same courtesy to others. Some of us need a little more than a pokey little glossy screen to do their work on, are heavily invested in a Mac-based workflow and would perhaps like to spend money with the company but not on outdated machines and displays. That's all.

Right now, I'm just disappointed. If I was in the buying position I was in in my last position, looking to equip the studio, I'd be furious with the foot-dragging.

So, to all those investors out there, sure these results might look great but they could be even better. ;)

Yes they could. If I had a modern $500 Mini and $1K Mac upgradable desktop to sell, I could double my sales. Easily. I just don't understand Apple's refusal to build them. :rolleyes: The demand for them is incredible. If Woz was CEO, we would have them.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bd/Steve_Wozniak_thumbs_up.jpg/750px-Steve_Wozniak_thumbs_up.jpg

[ChrisA]

Its a good thing that Apple appears to have a backup plan if something happens to Steve.

4.4 millions iPhones is pretty good but nothing compared to the number of iPods. I think Apple is working on that and might one day have the same number of iPhones as iPods sold. But if they want that to happen, they need to come out with an IPHONE NANO!

So if Apple was able to offer a $1,900 phone rather then the current $2,000 phone they'd sell more phones? Yes they do cost (about) that much the $199 you pay in the stor is only a down payment on a two year contract. If they want to sell more phones they will have to work on the total contract price but I don't see that happening.

Put it this way what if Applw where able to finance the $199 up front cost over 24 mounths by charging you only $10 more per month. That would in many cosummer's minds make the iPhone "free" But would they sell more phones? Whould people sign a $2,240 contract to get a "free" iPhone?

[shawnce]

His ideas have a lot to do with it.

The things coming out in Snow Leopard are predominantly engineering driven... I can assure you Steve had little to do with most, if any, of them.

[gkarris]

Going to continue to invest in the Apple TV.

best news of the call so far imo

DEFINITELY....

I purposely purchase all my videos through my AppleTV... :D

[elppa]

The 1H 2009 rumor was totally bogus...

It was on the slides of their Director of Engineering of Unix Technologies.

Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/11/18/mac-os-x-snow-leopard-10-6-due-in-q1-2009/).

It was hardly a rumour.

that in no way implies it is slipping....he said they were extremely excited about it.

If he had good/medium news it then why would he have been cagey about timeframes. On schedule would be sufficient — especially as we don't know what the schedule is.

If Snow Leopard is just round the corner, then why are they commencing sale of a box set at the end of this month featuring Leopard?

[Peace]

The things coming out in Snow Leopard are predominantly engineering driven... I can assure you Steve had little to do with most, if any, of them.

Right Arm !! :)

[rdowns]

If Woz was CEO, we would have them.



If Woz were CEO, Apple wouldn't exist today. He's a geek, not a marketer or visionary.

[swagi]

I'm pleased for you that Apple builds a product for you, your wife and your friends, please consider extending that same courtesy to others. Some of us need a little more than a pokey little glossy screen to do their work on, are heavily invested in a Mac-based workflow and would perhaps like to spend money with the company but not on outdated machines and displays. That's all.

Right now, I'm just disappointed. If I was in the buying position I was in in my last position, looking to equip the studio, I'd be furious with the foot-dragging.

So, to all those investors out there, sure these results might look great but they could be even better. ;)

I could not agree more. I myself would like to buy some Mac desktops for work ASAP. Problem is, I had 3 lemons with my for iMacs (google vertical line if you like). All started their measily behaviour after 1.5 years.

Therefore I will go with cheap desktops accompanied with displays. An updated mini would be perfect for my needs (as Mac Pro are overkill) - guess, waht I'm waiting for.

And to be as anecdotal - I guess many people would like to pull the trigger on a new mini, but could one care to explain, why the heck you should toss over that insane amount of money for the current mini.

I know, the xMac will never happen. I don't need a Mac Pro and I will never ever buy a All-in-one again. Screw that vertical lines - get a new display, if they come :D

[whatever]

His ideas have a lot to do with it.

Huh, no he doesn't.

I think you might mixing him up with Bill Gates who is an actual developer.

People present ideas to Jobs, he listens to them and then challenges his staff on them.

He's kind of like a cake taster. Doesn't make the cake, but knows what he likes.

[Peace]

Huh, no he doesn't.

I think you might mixing him up with Bill Gates who is an actual developer.

People present ideas to Jobs, he listens to them and then challenges his staff on them.

He's kind of like a cake taster. Doesn't make the cake, but knows what he likes.

You just used 50 words to say what I said in three. But it's all good.

[ChrisA]

These are great number but - "25% decline in desktops" - ouch! ouch! OUCH!
:eek:

Steve said in one of the last one of these teleconferences that "Apple chooses not to serve some segments of the market" That would be the mainstream desktop market. And I can see why Apple ignores the largest segment of the computer market: It is very price competitive and has low margins. I don't think Apple will ever make the mainstream desktop that most of us want. There is no room for margins in such a competitive segment of the market.

[surferfromuk]

These are great number but - "25% decline in desktops" - ouch! ouch! OUCH!
:eek:

They need to give the Aluminium iMac back it's edge. The unibody laptops just make it seem old-fashioned, low-tech and boring.

Those unibody laptops are ludicrously great...They feel like a rolex watch...

Let's hope they stay out of netbooks - crappy low end sub-laptop junk. A Ipod Touch 7 - I can go with and I'd even buy one just to sit it on the table by the couch, but not a crappy netbook even an Apple one.

[JoshJosh117]

Nothing in Q&A about iMacs?

[shawnce]

It was on the slides of their Director of Engineering of Unix Technologies.

Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/11/18/mac-os-x-snow-leopard-10-6-due-in-q1-2009/).

It was hardly a rumour. Yeah I am well aware of that. It was a slide taken out of context, it was never a correct time frame for Snow Leopard.

[Virgil-TB2]

Thanks. I know laptops are popular but by an almost 3-1 margin? Pitiful, and shows the paucity of the current desktop range in offering value and choice.I think laptops are 71% of their sales now, so a bit more than 3 to 1. :(

As a MacPro user with no use for laptops though, I do commiserate with your point of view.

I find it interesting that Apple is kind of lagging even with basic desktop accessories. There are no iSight cameras, and only the standard mouse and keyboard that haven't been updated for a long time now. The bluetooth keyboard is nice, but with all the multi-touch goodness going around I would have thought they would have made a desktop multi-touch pad a year ago already.

Conversely, even though it's "all about the iPhone" now, the iPhone hardware refreshes and software updates seem to be slow also. iPhone sales are already tailing off.

I would have expected Apple to hit the market hard with expanded model offerings and new hardware but instead they have done nothing. Software-wise on the iPhone they are about 6 months behind where they promised they would be let alone where they hoped to be.

IMO Apple is over-extended, slow and making too many mistakes right now but this is masked by the intense popularity (and thus mega-sales) of the products they *do* manage to get out the door.

[Mr Maui]

You just used 50 words to say what I said in three. But it's all good.

Actually ... you said it in 9 words. :p

[displaced]

Steve said in one of the last one of these teleconferences that "Apple chooses not to serve some segments of the market" That would be the mainstream desktop market. And I can see why Apple ignores the largest segment of the computer market: It is very price competitive and has low margins. I don't think Apple will ever make the mainstream desktop that most of us want. There is no room for margins in such a competitive segment of the market.

Mainstream desktops, I can understand. But where are the workstations? The no-holds-barred, "You want power? Here's your freakin' power!" machine. The one that makes processing that used to be hours and turns it to minutes.

I must admit, I'm not au fait with Intel's product line at the moment. Are we just in a bit of a microarchitectural interregnum, or are Apple genuinely tardy in their updates?

[chaosconan]

I think apple should get into military applications and get some of those defense contracts from the government.
They can increase their profit by 5 fold!!!

Check this baby out. iPhone App Helps Snipers Hit Targets
That's what I'm talking!!!
Whats next?
iPhone App for remote bomb triggering.
iPhone App to guide missiles to their target.
iPhone App to guide rockets into space.
iPhone App to kill satellites.
iPhone App to help night vision detection.
iPhone App to detect enemy locations.
iPhone App to guide Predator UAV to its target.

The military applications is ENDLESS.

[Blue Velvet]

I just don't understand Apple's refusal to build them.


Steve Jobs and his precious iMac as flagship. Always has wanted the sealed box, computer as appliance, just like a washing machine, never understood the need for anything else and inflicts this vision on the rest of us. Can't build anything too close to it or sales of these wretched machines will suffer, so cripple potentially competing products like the Mini or overprice them at the other end of the scale and let them wither on the vine.

[Mal]

It was on the slides of their Director of Engineering of Unix Technologies.

Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/11/18/mac-os-x-snow-leopard-10-6-due-in-q1-2009/).

It was hardly a rumour.



If he had good/medium news it then why would he have been cagey about timeframes. On schedule would be sufficient — especially as we don't know what the schedule is.

If Snow Leopard is just round the corner, then why are they starting selling a box set at the end of this month with Leopard on?

We do know the schedule for Snow Leopard, they told us at WWDC last year. It'll be ready around June of this year. If nothing has changed, why would they bother telling us something they've already told us?

jW

[gnasher729]

From the conference call, regarding possible future competitors for the iPhone:

We are not going to have our IP ripped off. I don't think I can be any clearer than that.

I think it might be dangerous to sell any phone that relies on anything that Apple has patented.

[twoodcc]

wow. and i thought there was a recession going on? dang, i record in ipod sales? i bet the ipod touch had a lot to do with that

[Mal]

I think laptops are 71% of their sales now, so a bit more than 3 to 1. :(

Actually, 75% would make it 3 to 1, so 71% is a bit less than 3 to 1 (remember, to have a 3 to 1 ratio, that 4 total equal parts).

Right Arm !! :)

Left Arm!! :p

jW

[Bubba Satori]

If Woz were CEO, Apple wouldn't exist today. He's a geek, not a marketer or visionary.


Yes it would. He's also a visionary educator and extremely personable. But you knew that, didn't you. Why did you omit that aspect of his abilities ? Obviously to make a point about his inability to lead a company. Ok.

[Virgil-TB2]

Makes sense. Apple sells conventional notebooks but only "speciality" desktops. They have no mainstream desktop product.You are just using artificial terms to separate the two. Most consumers actually buy "computers" and if the store clerk asked them if they want the "mainstream" or the "specialty" variety, they would have no idea what to say.

[jbernie]

that in no way implies it is slipping....he said they were extremely excited about it.

Alot of people on here are "excited" about Snow Leopard as well, but as said, being "excited" is very generic and open term that does not indicate anything.

[whatever]

You just used 50 words to say what I said in three. But it's all good.

Well, actually that's not what you said. You said that they're his ideas. I'm saying that they're not.

[rdowns]

Yes it would. He's also a visionary educator and extremely personable. But you knew that, didn't you. Why did you omit that aspect of his abilities ? Obviously to make a point about his inability to lead a company. Ok.


Because a 'visionary educator and extremely personable' do not make a CEO. We were talking about him being CEO, not the things that are not related to what a CEO does.

[tjcampbell]

Mobile Me is pure gravy. They make a fortune off what should be free.

[bryan1884]

Alot of people on here are "excited" about Snow Leopard as well, but as said, being "excited" is very generic and open term that does not indicate anything.

so because they didnt give a release date it is slipping? If one of them would have stated that snow leopard is "coming along great" or something similar then tomorrow the onl news would be that snow leopard is going to be released soon which would lead to people holding off on buying for the new software release. So my friend, this is why they had no comment other than they are excited.

[Virgil-TB2]

Actually, 75% would make it 3 to 1, so 71% is a bit less than 3 to 1 (remember, to have a 3 to 1 ratio, that 4 total equal parts).Yikes! me not do math well.

Well lets divert attention from my mistake by lashing out at Blue Velvet for saying "3-1" when it's not. (slinks away)

:)

[Bubba Satori]

Steve said in one of the last one of these teleconferences that "Apple chooses not to serve some segments of the market" That would be the mainstream desktop market. And I can see why Apple ignores the largest segment of the computer market: It is very price competitive and has low margins. I don't think Apple will ever make the mainstream desktop that most of us want. There is no room for margins in such a competitive segment of the market.


Yes there is. Apple doesn't have to price at the same level as Acer, Dell or Gateway. I could easily sell Apple towers for $200 or $300 more than for an identical component pc.

[Ramashalanka]

You are just using artificial terms to separate the two. Most consumers actually buy "computers" and if the store clerk asked them if they want the "mainstream" or the "specialty" variety, they would have no idea what to say.

Well, they might not in those terms, but the decline in desktop sales shows their vote against "specialty" slowly-revised desktops (even if the sales went to laptops).

[Doctor Q]

In the Q&A, Apple said they will open 25 stores, half of them international. I guess that's 12 in the U.S., 12 in other countries, and one straddling the Canadian border.

[wizard]

Well done Apple. :D

I've been surprised at how well Apple sales have held up during the economic downturn. My Apple sales have been very good the last six months.

The problem right now is the unusual nature of this downturn. All economies have then of course but this one seems to be much more a downturn created on purpose. Apples sales and even yours indicate that the downturn isn't what the media would want you to believe.

Yeah there is stress on the system but there simply haven't yet been the mass layoffs that one would expect for the economic disaster that the power to be want us to believe we are in.


Just wish I had an up to date $500 Mini :mad: and a $1K quad core tower :mad: to sell. I could sell tons of them.

Hopefully Apple has new hardware coming that will deal with that need. Frankly I think they are very close to release.

Speaking of release does anybody know if Apple has reserved Superbowl advertising space? This would be the ideal place to announce a new generation of Macs. Plenty of exposure plus it would be a big surprise.

Dave

[Ramashalanka]

In the Q&A, Apple said they will open 25 stores, half of them international. I guess that's 12 in the U.S., 12 in other countries, and one straddling the Canadian border.

Or one in Guantanamo Bay.

[kastenbrust]

Low expectations for Q2 though.

7.5-8 Bln.

oh sorry only the GDP of a small country.

isnt that enough for you? :p

[Peace]

Well, actually that's not what you said. You said that they're his ideas. I'm saying that they're not.

Actually what I said was " you don't realize how close to the truth you are.".

Without Steve Jobs Leopard and the iPhone O/S would have never materialized.

Remember that when the coding is completed.

I know he doesn't get involved in coding but his vision sure is there. And without it the software engineers have a habit of. Well..

I love folks that code so I won't say anything.

[rdowns]

Actually what I said was " you don't realize how close to the truth you are.".

Without Steve Jobs Leopard and the iPhone O/S would have never materialized.

Remember that when the coding is completed.

I know he doesn't get involved in coding but his vision sure is there. And without it the software engineers have a habit of. Well..

I love folks that code so I won't say anything.


I pretty much agree with your take on how Jobs runs Apple but I think Snow Leopard was a product pushed for by engineering. There are no whiz bang features for marketing to grab onto and sell. I can see the head of engineering going to Jobs and saying, 'Look, PPC is dead and our OS is bloated because of it. Let us strip out all the PPC code and really optimize this sucker. We'll be able to get by with fewer programmers after its done.'

[wizard]

Snow Leopard's looks like it's slipping (from the rumoured first half of 2009 date).

Now how did you manage to come to that conclusion when it is only the first month in the new year and we have 5 more to go? Are we jumping to conclusions or what.


Tim Cook could have said it was “on track” or “making good progress”.

Why tip your hand with such drivel? In any event the only thing that Apple needs to be concerned about is getting Snow Leopard right and stable for delivery. I'd much rather see a slow to come SL that gets here fast and stable than to get a crappy update on time.

In any event SL isn't rally that important if you think about it, more important is getting new desktop hardware out there. Yeah I know the current OS could use a little work, but in many ways nothing else comes close. In other words they should be taking their time to get this rather major internal update right as they are not being pressured by external OS suppliers.


But he said neither.

Of course not. Even if SL was ready for delivery next week on new Mini hardware you wouldn't expect Tim to say anything.

Dave

[Mr Maui]

In the Q&A, Apple said they will open 25 stores, half of them international. I guess that's 12 in the U.S., 12 in other countries, and one straddling the Canadian border.

Or the Mexican border ...

Apple is now supporting immigration as long as the refugees buy a Mac through the border store. :D

[Syrus28]

Pretty good Apple, pretty good. :cool:

Seems like Apple's doing pretty well in this economy.

[Mr Maui]

... In any event the only thing that Apple needs to be concerned about is getting Snow Leopard right and stable for delivery. I'd much rather see a slow to come SL that gets here fast and stable than to get a crappy update on time.

I agree. And my guess is that Snow Leopard won't be delayed 2-3 years like Vista and that it will be more stable and functional than Vista was at its eventual release also. JMO

I suppose that shipping Snow Leopard in July will make Apple a complete failure in the mind of the original poster concerning the alleged delay.

[Mr D]

I know there are some readers and fanboys here are quietly shorting or planning to... come on... show yourselves...

I wouldn't blame you.:cool:

[Superman07]

Very proud of performance and very excited about product pipeline


I can only hope that this means some very good products are coming, and soon. Last conference call I believe they mentioned something about product transition, but I'm not sure what that ever was. Perhaps the switch to an aluminum Macbook unibody? Maybe they're still recovering costs from R&D. However, with $28B (seriously?!) in cash doesn't seem like not recouping that hurts much at the moment.

[Peace]

"very excited about product pipeline" is used in every conference call. Almost to the point where I think Tim just hit's a button under the desk when the question is asked.

[Scottsdale]

Noted info - 25% decline in desktops... stated was higher last year as introduction of an iMac...

How about because the desktops are all old offerings! Maybe the desktops wouldn't be down 25% if Apple would release some UPDATED DESKTOPS!

[Ramashalanka]

I'd much rather see a slow to come SL that gets here fast and stable than to get a crappy update on time.

I agree with the rest of your post, but personally and unusually, I'd rather have a crappy SL now, so that I can buy my new computer with it and get free 10.6.1 upgrades in time, rather than wait and wait or pay an extra $129 on top of my purchase price.

[Superman07]

The problem right now is the unusual nature of this downturn. All economies have then of course but this one seems to be much more a downturn created on purpose. Apples sales and even yours indicate that the downturn isn't what the media would want you to believe.

Yeah there is stress on the system but there simply haven't yet been the mass layoffs that one would expect for the economic disaster that the power to be want us to believe we are in.
Dave

Seriously? These figures are strong, but remember they were for last quarter. At the end of that, and to date this year, the reports and figures have continued to get worse. Unemployment is at a 15 year high and you feel layoffs aren't in line with 'the times'? Very odd.

[dwl017]

Of course they have made billions you clowns buy every piece of crap they produce like its the end of world.

The very first iPhone should have them set for life! what was the cost of that thing? $500 some odd dollars for a cell phone. LOL

[GorillaPaws]

I bought my first ever shares of AAPL yesterday at $80/share... I'm only 27, so I think this will be a nice entry price in the long run. I'm actually hoping things stay low/get even lower so I can buy more shares as I continue to divert as much of my paycheck as I can to savings.

[Mr D]

Of course they have made billions you clowns buy every piece of crap they produce like its the end of world.

The very first iPhone should have them set for life! what was the cost of that thing? $500 some odd dollars for a cell phone. LOL

That's actually not a crazy price for a cell phone...

The crazy thing about it was that it was WITH A CONTRACT... and it $500/$600

[FF_productions]

Anecdotal evidence from your friends doesn't sway me, I'm afraid. Besides, who in anybody's right mind would buy a desktop from Apple at the moment, unless you want an all in one like the iMac? Face it, they've slacked around and tinkered around the edges with the Macs.

Agreed, but you can't say they've been lazy with the portables.

The desktops, inexcusable, the reason that the laptops are outselling the desktops is because what they are offering is horrific. A Mac Mini that hasn't been updated truly since Feb 2007 (August 07 was a .2 ghz bump). The iMac is all-in-one, not everybody wants to be tied to that. Mac Pro is a pro machine, pro-priced for people that make a living using that computer.

Like I said in another thread and pointed out by another user, you could get a Quad PC with Blu-Ray for the price of the Mac Mini. Am I asking for a decked out Mac Mini? It won't happen, not in this lifetime, but I'd like to see competitive pricing with their desktop line.

And I'll add to the fire...
Yey for Apple making money?? Who cares? We are watching them get rich while not listening to our requests. Same company that says we need a MacBook Air, and that a uni-body laptop beats any laptop, no matter how they price it or equip it. Quit dipping in the kool aid.

[HLdan]

Wow, great news especially for people who invested a lot in Apple stock. It just blows me away how ANYONE could rate this article negative and there ARE a few negatives. :p

[Eric S.]

Of course they have made billions you clowns buy every piece of crap they produce like its the end of world.

The very first iPhone should have them set for life! what was the cost of that thing? $500 some odd dollars for a cell phone. LOL

People snapped up the iPhone at $500 precisely because it transcended a mere "cell phone."

[avus]

Steve Jobs and his precious iMac as flagship. Always has wanted the sealed box, computer as appliance, just like a washing machine, never understood the need for anything else and inflicts this vision on the rest of us. Can't build anything too close to it or sales of these wretched machines will suffer, so cripple potentially competing products like the Mini or overprice them at the other end of the scale and let them wither on the vine.

I never understand people like you. You have a stalker's mentality, you keep consuming on a celebrity products yet having a delusion why he/she can't personally satisfy you. Also, I wonder what kind of job you have that the current Mini can't handle, really.

No, I am not pushing a product that you despise. Instead of pity and pain, I simply suggest you (and many of the posters on this board) going to PCs and Windows environment. I use them, they are not bad at all, and no matter how much the initial investment to switch is going to be, they can potentially save your soul.

[rdowns]

Agreed, but you can't say they've been lazy with the portables.

The desktops, inexcusable, the reason that the laptops are outselling the desktops is because what they are offering is horrific.


Not necessarily so (their desktops are in sore need of a revamp). Laptops outsold desktops in 2008. It's not only an Apple trend.

[robanga]

Nice numbers. Particularly the y/y growth in the iPod segment which was supposed to wind down a bit as the iPhone would up.

[Peace]

One thing that struck me was the outlook for 2H 2009. Margins down to 30% for the second half. So between June and September we are going to see some nice new fancy hardware. I'm guessing that's when the iPad and Snow Leopard will be out.

[fredf]

Am I missing something or aren't we still in the first quarter of 2009. How is it possible to have figures for a quarter in progress?

[Blue Velvet]

I never understand people like you. You have a stalker's mentality, you keep consuming on a celebrity products yet having a delusion why he/she can't personally satisfy you. Also, I wonder what kind of job you have that the current Mini can't handle, really.


You never understand people like me because I'm what you call a Mac user who goes way back, been using a Mac in one form or another since the early 90s. I'm a print designer, involved in busy production schedules at times and use the Creative Suite in ways that would tie a Mini up. You clearly have no concept of what's involved... and yes, I make copious use of Firewire and would like to see an Apple Display that's not glossy. And yes, in my last position I was budget-holder and buyer for the studio.


No, I am not pushing a product that you despise. Instead of pity and pain, I simply suggest you (and many of the posters on this board) going to PCs and Windows environment. I use them, they are not bad at all, and no matter how much the initial investment to switch is going to be, they can potentially save your soul.

Please don't waste your time in trolling. This is all someone who has drunk the koolaid can offer. Let's get realistic, the current Macs are pitiful and their desktop strategy is sub-par for a company of their stature.

Interesting how all you can offer in this thread is personal comments about someone you don't know. Who's stalking who?

[Tallest Skil]

Am I missing something or aren't we still in the first quarter of 2009. How is it possible to have figures for a quarter in progress?

Fiscal years aren't real years, you know.

[NAG]

Am I missing something or aren't we still in the first quarter of 2009. How is it possible to have figures for a quarter in progress?

Financial quarters for companies ≠ calendar quarters.

[NinjaHERO]

In the Q&A, Apple said they will open 25 stores, half of them international. I guess that's 12 in the U.S., 12 in other countries, and one straddling the Canadian border.


LOL

Do you need a passport to walk from one side of that store to the other?

[gnasher729]

I suppose that shipping Snow Leopard in July will make Apple a complete failure in the mind of the original poster concerning the alleged delay.

Snow Leopard is supposed to be the same as Leopard as far as user-visible features are concerned, but faster, safer, more stable. I think Apple is relatively free to choose exactly when Snow Leopard is going to be released. Earlier with less improvements, later with more improvements. They will choose whatever is the best moment in time for Apple.

It will be quite important how the economy goes. The best time to release Snow Leopard from a marketing point of view is when people get back to being optimistic and investing. A company like Apple with plenty of cash can afford to improve its products behind the scene and come out with new things at exactly the right time.

[gnasher729]

I pretty much agree with your take on how Jobs runs Apple but I think Snow Leopard was a product pushed for by engineering. There are no whiz bang features for marketing to grab onto and sell. I can see the head of engineering going to Jobs and saying, 'Look, PPC is dead and our OS is bloated because of it. Let us strip out all the PPC code and really optimize this sucker. We'll be able to get by with fewer programmers after its done.'

I can't see the head of engineering worrying about PowerPC at all. It's more like "we don't need a PowerPC version, but we'll keep the OS running on PowerPC forever. That way, we make sure that all code is portable and will run fine on whatever will be the next technology after Intel 32-bit and 64-bit processors".

What is much more important: At the moment, Cocoa is not fully functional; some things have to be done using Carbon, and therefore are not available on the iPhone OS. That has to be fixed. At that point it will be possible to use identical code for MacOS X and iPhone, and that is when Apple will suddenly have a Netbook. With all the iLife and iWork applications immediately available. That will be the killer Netbook.

[akm3]

With Apple making this ridiculous amount of money, maybe its time for them to reduce prices a bit. Apple is still fairly overpriced.

.... Why? They have no desire to be the volume leader, they want to be the aspirationally priced premium product.

That's like saying that BMW is making tons of money, they should compete with Honda in the $15k-$25k range.

[Ramashalanka]

Yey for Apple making money?? Who cares? We are watching them get rich while not listening to our requests. Same company that says we need a MacBook Air, and that a uni-body laptop beats any laptop, no matter how they price it or equip it. Quit dipping in the kool aid.

Can't we assume that the only people going "Yey" are those with AAPL stock?

[shawnce]

Snow Leopard is supposed to be the same as Leopard as far as user-visible features are concerned, but faster, safer, more stable. I think Apple is relatively free to choose exactly when Snow Leopard is going to be released. Earlier with less improvements, later with more improvements. Actually Snow Leopard is strongly a release for Apple and 3rd party developers. They have set (IMHO) ambitious goals to provide several new APIs and sub-systems laying the foundation for then next several years. Finishing those features put a limit on how soon they can ship. Yes they can drop some but many are interdependent.

I sure hope they take as long as they want to fully back things. The don't really need the revenue stream from another OS release at this time (assuming they even charge for it).

[Umbongo]

Mainstream desktops, I can understand. But where are the workstations? The no-holds-barred, "You want power? Here's your freakin' power!" machine. The one that makes processing that used to be hours and turns it to minutes.

I must admit, I'm not au fait with Intel's product line at the moment. Are we just in a bit of a microarchitectural interregnum, or are Apple genuinely tardy in their updates?

It's because there is nothing to upgrade to.

[chewietobbacca]

I'm glad aapl is going strong, but those margins are paid for by the fact that they're essentially selling much cheaper outdated hardware, which does annoy me

Can't have it all I guess

[Ramashalanka]

I can't see the head of engineering worrying about PowerPC at all. It's more like "we don't need a PowerPC version, but we'll keep the OS running on PowerPC forever. That way, we make sure that all code is portable and will run fine on whatever will be the next technology after Intel 32-bit and 64-bit processors".

What? It takes extra work to introduce new features (even if they don't call them features) and make them work on PowerPC and Intel.

It's easy for Apple to have limited hardware for OS X to support. Getting rid of PowerPC support will make it even easier.

[chewietobbacca]

It's because there is nothing to upgrade to.

Kind of. Nehalem and all that is out already, but Apple is always a half generation behind in the hardware category. Look at GPUs :(

[chewietobbacca]

What is much more important: At the moment, Cocoa is not fully functional; some things have to be done using Carbon, and therefore are not available on the iPhone OS. That has to be fixed. At that point it will be possible to use identical code for MacOS X and iPhone, and that is when Apple will suddenly have a Netbook. With all the iLife and iWork applications immediately available. That will be the killer Netbook.

That's not the purpose of the netbook

And you're very wrong about the PowerPC part

[IJ Reilly]

Can't we assume that the only people going "Yey" are those with AAPL stock?

What can we assume about the people who are wishing Apple would become less profitable?

[Blue Velvet]

.... Why? They have no desire to be the volume leader, they want to be the aspirationally priced premium product.

That's like saying that BMW is making tons of money, they should compete with Honda in the $15k-$25k range.


I'm sorry, but there's no way the current Mac desktops are like BMWs, even though BMW also make the Mini. ;)

I don't mind a so-called premium product and its associated cost. But please tell me how the current desktops are premium products.

[Tallest Skil]

Kind of. Nehalem and all that is out already, but Apple is always a half generation behind in the hardware category. Look at GPUs :(

No, the chips for the Mac Pro AREN'T out already.

[MattInOz]

Snow Leopard is supposed to be the same as Leopard as far as user-visible features are concerned, but faster, safer, more stable. I think Apple is relatively free to choose exactly when Snow Leopard is going to be released. Earlier with less improvements, later with more improvements. They will choose whatever is the best moment in time for Apple.

It will be quite important how the economy goes. The best time to release Snow Leopard from a marketing point of view is when people get back to being optimistic and investing. A company like Apple with plenty of cash can afford to improve its products behind the scene and come out with new things at exactly the right time.

Well if there was every going to be one defining moment where it all turned it was yesterday, it maybe slow on the uptake but confidence is turning, people are in the mood to believe that they can be confident again someday....

I so if Apple want to capture that now or next tuesday is the time to start trickling their imaginations. iMac's the flagship of Desktops would be a nice start, it's the iconic Apple Product.

[Peace]

I'm sorry, but there's no way the current Mac desktops are like BMWs, even though BMW also make the Mini. ;)

I don't mind a so-called premium product and its associated cost. But please tell me how the current desktops are premium products.


Well they cost a lot. Isn't that a "premium" ? :p

[chewietobbacca]

No, the chips for the Mac Pro AREN'T out already.

Right, I don't know why I was thinking about desktops and not workstation chipsets

Well they cost a lot. Isn't that a "premium" ? :p

I'm glad that Apple can pull it off, and that's why BMW and Porsche are so profitable as well, but marketing and perception are much bigger forces than the actual products these days, especially in cars

[ClaphamChris]

Some of us need a little more than a pokey little glossy screen to do their work on, are heavily invested in a Mac-based workflow and would perhaps like to spend money with the company but not on outdated machines and displays. That's all.

Right now, I'm just disappointed. If I was in the buying position I was in in my last position, looking to equip the studio, I'd be furious with the foot-dragging.



Couldn't agree more. And, in the UK, I reckon they'll pay particularly hard for the footdragging. Not only is there a slowdown, but given Sterling's slide against the dollar, when the revisions are made there will be quite large price increases for us UK buyers, I'll wager. Earlier updates may have opened the purse strings. The deeper the dip, the more likely the premium will matter.

Suppose the only upside is that we haven't had as many 'it's way more expensive in the UK' posts of late, as we're actually doing better in pricing terms than our American counterparts just now. Even with VAT ;)

[VoR]

What can we assume about the people who are wishing Apple would become less profitable?

I'd like them to make less profit on their pcs, getting more for my money is nice. Maybe they'd become more profitable in the long run with a larger share, maybe they'd become less profitable by selling more and losing the niche appeal - I don't really care either way :)


To the car analogy crew, please stop :)

edit: I'm glad that Apple can pull it off, and that's why BMW and Porsche are so profitable as well, but marketing and perception are much bigger forces than the actual products these days, especially in cars - Tick

[PinkyMacGodess]

Q: How many of your 500 million App Store downloads were paid and how many were free?
A: That's not something we're prepared to disclose.

Q: Will you eventually separate out App Store sales results from iTunes Store sales?
A: The App Store is part of iTunes, and we have no plans to separate them.

I wonder how App Store sales are going... I personally have yet to actually purchase an app from the App Store. Interesting that it appears to be a sensitive subject...

[IJ Reilly]

I'd like them to make less profit on their pcs, getting more for my money is nice. Maybe they'd become more profitable in the long run with a larger share, maybe they'd become less and lose it's niche appeal - I don't really care either way :)

Don't pray for snow unless you like to ski.

Fancy way of saying you don't get more because Apple gets less, and Apple doesn't necessarily get more by increasing their market share.

To the car analogy crew, please stop :)

Yes. Please.

[jaw04005]

Q: What about Apple TV?
A: Still a hobby for us, but movie rentals are increasing popularity. We will continue to invest in it, because we believe there is something there.

Best news I've heard all day! I love my Apple TV.

[daneoni]

So are they going after Palm for the Pre...it sounded like what they meant and i hear they weren't too thrilled with Rubinstein joing Palm in the first place

[PinkyMacGodess]

I'd like them to make less profit on their pcs, getting more for my money is nice. Maybe they'd become more profitable in the long run with a larger share, maybe they'd become less profitable by selling more and losing the niche appeal - I don't really care either way

Sounds like a 'trickle down' believer...

Like the outrageous lie that cutting taxes would boost revenues... Yeah...

They need to come out with a version of OS X that will run on standard PC's. Make it so that Windows will run under it with something like Fusion...

[VoR]

Fancy way of saying you don't get more because Apple gets less, and Apple doesn't necessarily get more by increasing their market share.

Of course :)
But looking at it very simply as an end user buying today, I would be more happy if this is the direction they took.


I'm not really sure what you meant in response to my (jokey) comment PinkyMac :( but since when does taxing the rich and large corps result in more revenue?! (that's what you mean with yours?)

[srf4real]

I watched the stock tank on news of Steve Job's health issues, and after dreaming of owning AAPL for years I am financially able to buy in at this time. Was watching shares go down below 80 yesterday and I had to put my foot down. Apple is a great company with the best computer products and gadgets, good at making money and making happy customers.

I now proudly announce that am the new owner of Apple shares, in at $78.47. Old school investor here, they can use my money for a long long time. I see a n even greater future for myself having a piece of the :apple: action in my retirement! Thanks, Steve Jobs... thanks Apple. Glad the whacked out market brought you back to my level if even for a brief moment in time.:cool:

[elppa]

Let me clarify:

I don't mind if Snow Leopard is behind schedule (whatever that schedule may be).

I'd much rather Apple get things right that get things out early.

Big, ambitious software projects tend to get delayed anyway. It's just the nature of them. I'm not complaining, it's just a side-effect of Apple getting big and having to scale — they can't be as nimble.

If Tim had good news he would have said something about being “on track with internal targets”, “right on track” or “shaping up great”. But he didn't. I came across to me (I only got one listen) that he was being careful with his wording. So read into that what you will. There was not a whisper at MacWorld expo either.

I read into it that they (Apple) is little behind, no doubt in part due to trying to get iPhone OS 3.0 ready at the moment as well.

Apple still is stretching their software engineering resources to the limit. Look at the push activation, delayed indefinitely with no word. Another example is the clunky log in/log out to switch between integrated and dedicated graphics on the MacBook Pro. That's not an Apple solution, that's quite a clunky solution.

Hopefully when we do hear about Snow Leopard there will be some pleasant surprises.

[Ramashalanka]

What can we assume about the people who are wishing Apple would become less profitable?

They've got put options :)

[quinney]

Go Apple!!!!

:cramer voice: buy buy buy :/cramer voice:

Actually one of Cramer's lackeys is recommending people
sell apple now

http://www.thestreet.com/video/10459111/apple-beats-time-to-sell.html

[Bryan Bowler]

I purchased 1,200 shares yesterday at $80 a share. I made the investment with a 1 to 2 year horizon. Personally, I think AAPL will soar once the economy recovers. Now that these figures have been released, I feel even more confident in my decision!

Bryan

[Eric S.]

No, the chips for the Mac Pro AREN'T out already.

If Apple would just make a decent desktop system between the Mac Pro and the laptop-based iMac, we could be buying a killer Core i7 machine running OS X.

[displaced]

It's because there is nothing to upgrade to.

Kind of. Nehalem and all that is out already, but Apple is always a half generation behind in the hardware category. Look at GPUs :(

No, the chips for the Mac Pro AREN'T out already.

Ah - then quite possibly the reason for at least the Pro's stagnation isn't entirely down to Apple.

I'm almost tempted to label Apple 'fickle' with some of their products. When there's something interesting they can do, they're all over it. It seems, perhaps, there's nothing compelling out there to make them give the Pro some love. Unfortunately for the purchaser, they don't tend to drop the price on tech as it ages, preferring to discount only after a model has been superseded.

Again, I'm not terribly up-to-date with Intel's plans. However, I get the feeling that high-performance 'consumer' parts tend to develop quicker than their equivalent workstation/server parts (upon which the Pro is based). So, towards the end of the life of the Pro's architecture, the Intel 'consumer' range has almost met or surpassed its performance. This leaves the workstation class machines looking unattractive until the big leap which once again justifies their classification.

Does that make any sense (or, indeed, bear any relationship to reality)?

edit:

A few thoughts on GPUs in the Pro.

As I understand it, many of those who'll be pushing the Pro to its (computational) limits are more interested in sheer bit-crunching ability rather than shader models and pipeline counts. Is it correct that Photoshop, Final Cut, Shake and all that jazz really wants CPU and architectural horsepower? In these situations, a new machine has the ability to save sizeable amounts of time each and every working day. When a pro user's waiting for something to process, they're not creating anything.

I can sympathise to an extent. Coding on a slow machine is a nightmare (especially when your toolkit - Visual Studio, in my case, is on the 'chubby' side). If I'm waiting 5 minutes for a compile instead of 10.... that's significant. If I can run two or more virtual machines simultaneously with great performance -- that's huge.

In these situations, I could have Intel GMA GPU and not care in the slightest.

Of course, Snow Leopard has the potential to turn all this on its head, with co-operation from Adobe and other vendors.

[elppa]

Ah - then quite possibly the reason for at least the Pro's stagnation isn't entirely down to Apple.

I'm almost tempted to label Apple 'fickle' with some of their products. When there's something interesting they can do, they're all over it.

This is a very good observation. It happens in the software too.

First coverflow turns up everywhere, now skimming is the current vogue.

[displaced]

This is a very good observation. It happens in the software too.

First coverflow turns up everywhere, now skimming is the current vogue.

I bet it keeps things exciting for Apple staff. But it's a balancing trick. You can let your hardware lag a bit if, and only if, what you come out with eventually is so insanely great that it more than makes up for the delay.

(self-conscious use of the phrase 'insanely great' there, but I like it :) )

[edit:]

Oh, and on Software, I can't really call that 'fickle'...er...-ness.

Software's a creative thing (or at least the human interface is). There's no physics, wafers, factories, electrons deciding how things work. The worst approach to software is to keep doing things how they've been done before... or to settle with what you've just made. It's iterative - design and build something that works and addresses a need. Then go back and see if you can do it better. Lather, rinse, repeat. What seems to freak a lot of people out is that Apple are phenomenal at this. So what if users are 'used' to X. If Y works better, do it. If you're right, the users will agree. If you're wrong (Stacks, anyone?) go back to, or add, what you had before. Software's malleable. If your developers and designers are smart and the company's willing to not just stick to 'the way it's always been', you're doing it right.

[gwangung]

I bet it keeps things exciting for Apple staff. But it's a balancing trick. You can let your hardware lag a bit if, and only if, what you come out with eventually is so insanely great that it more than makes up for the delay.


THat's where Steve Jobs' genius is....being able to do the balance of letting stuff lag just long enough to be able to pop off the insanely great stuff....

[chewietobbacca]

Ah - then quite possibly the reason for at least the Pro's stagnation isn't entirely down to Apple.

I'm almost tempted to label Apple 'fickle' with some of their products. When there's something interesting they can do, they're all over it. It seems, perhaps, there's nothing compelling out there to make them give the Pro some love. Unfortunately for the purchaser, they don't tend to drop the price on tech as it ages, preferring to discount only after a model has been superseded.

Again, I'm not terribly up-to-date with Intel's plans. However, I get the feeling that high-performance 'consumer' parts tend to develop quicker than their equivalent workstation/server parts (upon which the Pro is based). So, towards the end of the life of the Pro's architecture, the Intel 'consumer' range has almost met or surpassed its performance. This leaves the workstation class machines looking unattractive until the big leap which once again justifies their classification.

Does that make any sense (or, indeed, bear any relationship to reality)?

edit:

A few thoughts on GPUs in the Pro.

As I understand it, many of those who'll be pushing the Pro to its (computational) limits are more interested in sheer bit-crunching ability rather than shader models and pipeline counts. Is it correct that Photoshop, Final Cut, Shake and all that jazz really wants CPU and architectural horsepower? In these situations, a new machine has the ability to save sizeable amounts of time each and every working day. When a pro user's waiting for something to process, they're not creating anything.

I can sympathise to an extent. Coding on a slow machine is a nightmare (especially when your toolkit - Visual Studio, in my case, is on the 'chubby' side). If I'm waiting 5 minutes for a compile instead of 10.... that's significant. If I can run two or more virtual machines simultaneously with great performance -- that's huge.

In these situations, I could have Intel GMA GPU and not care in the slightest.

Of course, Snow Leopard has the potential to turn all this on its head, with co-operation from Adobe and other vendors.

It's been like this for a while. The reason why competitors are so cheaply priced is largely because Apple keeps the prices on its hardware the same, despite the fact that computer hardware depreciates faster than anything else. 3 months ago, a user could pay $1k for a QX9650.... now that's being crushed by a Core i7 920 for 1/4 the price.

This point isn't as big a deal when new hardware comes out and Apple adopts it, cause usually it's fairly fresh (CPU's at least). However, 3 months down the line when new things come out, it starts getting long in the tooth. 6 months down the line, it's outdated (Intel releases essentially a new microarchitecture every 2-3 years, with a refresh in between) but they're still using the old product with the old prices. An example I remember of this is that when the venerable Core 2 Quad Q6600 came out, it was north of $500. Within a year, it was at $180-220.

As far as the GPU part goes, a lot of programs are being ported to GPU's now. With OpenCL, DX11, and CUDA all promising to give GPGPU calculations to programs that can take advantage of it in the near future (some things are already taking advantage of it, such as folding@home and some encoding/decoding), the GPU will be even more important in the near future. The CPU won't be replaced (much to the chagrin of Nvidia), but with GPU's hitting the 1 Teraflop mark already (soon to be in the 2-3+ range within the year), the potential of GPU's is immense.

I certainly hope that Apple doesn't continue that trend down the line. Consider that PC's now have the GTX 295, GTX 285, 4870X2, and 4870 (1788, 1080, 2400, and 1200 GFlops respectively) while the CPU's are still in the < 100 GFlops range (for calculations that the GPU can do though, since not everything can be done on GPU's and GPU's aren't utilized to 100% always). Compare that to the paltry offerings the Mac Pro can utilize. Now imagine if PC users can utilize their GPU's easily (they already can on some apps, as I've stated). They'll have a huge advantage if Apple always chooses to be behind by 6 months to a year.

[MrJingles]

... Also, I wonder what kind of job you have that the current Mini can't handle, really..

What a lot of people forget are the print/web designers (like me) who want access to multiple internal hard drives, access to more than 4GB of ram and better cpu options (quad core) but don't need Server Class/8core/FB DIMM/64GB capacity but that option doesn't exist.

It kills me to know competitors sell quad core/6GB/2x HD/REAL Video card options for 1/2 the price of a MacPro. And please don't get me started on 'consumer' vs 'server' chips I've had plenty of PC's in my past that lasted 5+ years without blowing up.

If OSX didn't talk to me so seductively (curse you beautiful OS!) I probably would have reversed switched already but I honestly don't want any windows action as long as I can help it.

[zdobson]

Go stock, go! Buy high, sell low, right?

[chewietobbacca]

What a lot of people forget are the print/web designers (like me) who want access to multiple internal hard drives, access to more than 4GB of ram and better cpu options (quad core) but don't need Server Class/8core/FB DIMM/64GB capacity but that option doesn't exist.

It kills me to know competitors sell quad core/6GB/2x HD/REAL Video card options for 1/2 the price of a MacPro. And please don't get me started on 'consumer' vs 'server' chips I've had plenty of PC's in my past that lasted 5+ years without blowing up.

If OSX didn't talk to me so seductively (curse you beautiful OS!) I probably would have reversed switched already but I honestly don't want any windows action as long as I can help it.

Don't forget gamers too, but Apple seems to hate gamers

But I agree with that since a lot of people love OS X, but there is a huge gap between the iMac and the Mac Pro. A Core i7 w/ 6GB DDR3 RAM, big hard drive space, and a respectable video card would go a long way, even if you have to put a so called 'Apple Tax' on it.

[inkswamp]

But paradoxically, the greater the success, the greater it's personally meaningless to me if Apple are incapable of actually manufacturing something I want to buy.

I can relate and have said the same here, but I hope you're prepared to be shouted down. Seems a lot of folks don't want to acknowledge the obvious gaps and shortcomings in Apple's computer line. I see it. You see it. A lot of other people on other forums besides MacRumors see it too.

Guess we're just hallucinating or something, huh? :D

[seedster2]

I hate when Mac enthusiasts make these ridiculous car analogies. Apple computers are not the porsche, ferrari or BMW of the computer industry:rolleyes:

Apple is doing well but when will they start investing in hardware instead of slick marketing? Desktops are stagnant and their followers willingness to dismiss any technology the undermines iTMS (BR) in notebooks is mystifying.

Funny how they refuse to give any breakdown of the App Store sales. Perhaps it will show half of the apps sold were shazaam and/or urbanspoon:D

Great numbers though. Imagine if they had subsidized the first phone, it would have sold really well;)

[iMaggot]

Wow, some good numbers:cool:

[arjen]

"Mix of portables/desktops affected by huge sales in the year-ago quarter due to iMac release; also a general shift in consumer buying habit"

Uhm what about customers declining willingness to purchase desktops which can by now be regarded as near obsolete? Let's face it; Mac Pro and Mini haven't been updated for quite a while!

[BuddyTronic]

I wish someone would have asked on the phone conference if Apple has considered paying a dividend to shareholders?

If Apple pays shareholders a dividend, it will help to stabilize the stock price - more people will hold on to shares with a dividend payed out.

Why doesn't Apple pay dividends?

[SactoGuy18]

Apple will not update the iMac and Mac Pro until they can get assurances on a stable supply of Intel's newest quad-core CPU's (Core i7 for iMacs, Gainestown Xeons for the Mac Pros). Expect the new machines coming around April 2009.

[teme]

I don't understand why everyone thinks that Apple can't get profit margin from a possible consumer desktop. Yes, there are lots of competitors there, but Apple could easily put a higher price for their machines, as they do with their every other computer too. People who want the cheapest desktop tower could buy it from other manufacturers, and people who like Apple are willing to pay more as usually.

By the way, I think the rumors about Mac Mini with Intel Atom are not very reliable anymore, because the comment from Cook about netbooks: "but from our [point of view] the products are based on hardware that's much less powerful"... I think he wouldn't blame hardware less powerful if it's gonna be used in Mac Mini.

[Evangelion]

Q: What about the netbook (<$500) segment?

A: We're watching it, but we don't feel that they offer good products...underpowered, poor software, cramped keyboards, etc. We've got some ideas, but we will not provide the inferior experience that we believe other companies are providing.

Confirmed. Apple has a product in the pipeline that targets this segment. They have moved from the "that market sucks!"-comments to the "existing products in that market sucks"-comments.

[tjcampbell]

I wonder how App Store sales are going... I personally have yet to actually purchase an app from the App Store. Interesting that it appears to be a sensitive subject...

I have about fifteen friends with iPhones and we all buy apps. I buy at least one a week and as they improve I will buy more.

[gnasher729]

I wish someone would have asked on the phone conference if Apple has considered paying a dividend to shareholders?

If Apple pays shareholders a dividend, it will help to stabilize the stock price - more people will hold on to shares with a dividend payed out.

Why doesn't Apple pay dividends?

Every dollar dividend paid means the value of the company and the share price go down by one dollar. And if you haven't noticed: Apple tries to make the best computers and other devices in the world and increase the value of the company that way. They don't care one damn about idiot investors.

[Watabou]

I wonder how App Store sales are going... I personally have yet to actually purchase an app from the App Store. Interesting that it appears to be a sensitive subject...

I bet most of them are free. I know I download random apps just to try them, and end up deleting it.


Anyways, I used to only download free apps. But I couldn't resist. :D

Sp now, I tend to buy an app every two weeks, that is if there is a "must-have app" like rolando or hero of sparta etc.

[bmk]

I wish someone would have asked on the phone conference if Apple has considered paying a dividend to shareholders?

If Apple pays shareholders a dividend, it will help to stabilize the stock price - more people will hold on to shares with a dividend payed out.


If there's one thing that anyone - including you as an investor or shareholder - should have realised by now it is that the stock market's value has nothing whatsoever to do with the value or worth of the companies whose stocks are traded. It may have been in the past, but it is not so now - the market is the province of speculators and they don't care which company makes good stuff, which makes rubbish, who gives a dividend or not. They are after profit, by any means. The stock market - and the belief that everyone seems to have that it needs to be pampered and appeased rather than regulated and curtailed - has been one of the single worst factors in the whole financial meltdown.

[Evangelion]

I wish someone would have asked on the phone conference if Apple has considered paying a dividend to shareholders?

Why should tghey waste their money on that? They should use that money on new products and as a buffer to secure them from financial uncertainity.

If Apple pays shareholders a dividend, it will help to stabilize the stock price - more people will hold on to shares with a dividend payed out.

The dividend would few few bucks per share. And when MS finally paid dividends, their shareprice went down, because many investors saw that as a transition from fast-growing growth-company in to stable blue-chip company.

Why doesn't Apple pay dividends?

Because they have better things to do with that money than throw it all away.

[Rot'nApple]

"iPhone competitors: We view iPhone as primarily a software platform, which is different from our competitors. We don't mind competition, but if others rip off our intellectual property, we will go after them."

Uh, Can we have a list of Apple's iPhone intellectual property? I could have sworn that some of the characteristics of some of the competitive touch screen smart phones being introduced, already violated Apple's intellectual property, but apparently since there is no lawsuits and injunctions stopping competitors products, then I guess I am wrong! :(

Go :apple:!

[lftrghtparadigm]

'best quarterly revenue and earnings in Apple's history.'


that was we really needed :D

Go :apple:

[lftrghtparadigm]

"iPhone competitors: We view iPhone as primarily a software platform, which is different from our competitors. We don't mind competition, but if others rip off our intellectual property, we will go after them."

Uh, Can we have a list of Apple's iPhone intellectual property? I could have sworn that some of the characteristics of some of the competitive touch screen smart phones being introduced, already violated Apple's intellectual property, but apparently since there is no lawsuits and injunctions stopping competitors products, then I guess I am wrong! :(

Go :apple:!

None that we are publicly aware of. Apple certainly handles smaller matters in private and settles them. When an issue cannot be settled, or they feel it is a direct attempt at being combative (like Pystar), they publicize it in order to sway opinion in their favor.

I've been hands on with most of the new touch products and while some features feel like they are certainly ripped off the iPhone, there are many ways that these features are so inferior that it creates enough of a difference.

The people that Apple would publicly go after are ones that succeed in stealing iPhone features and recreating them well. This has not happen yet, at least not on the LG Dare, Blackberry touch, Palm Pre, or Google pHone. They all suck miserably.

[lftrghtparadigm]

I wish someone would have asked on the phone conference if Apple has considered paying a dividend to shareholders?

If Apple pays shareholders a dividend, it will help to stabilize the stock price - more people will hold on to shares with a dividend payed out.

Why doesn't Apple pay dividends?

:rolleyes: Right lets start handing out gifts and stall the progress of the company.

Dividends are for: Corporations who have a steady cash flow, with:

1. No interest in growth, development, or improvement of any kind.

2. No interest in change. The current system, unchanged, makes just enough to pay dividends and leak massive sums into the pockets of the board members.

Cash is the most valuable asset a company can have (assuming that cash isn't the American dollar in the year 2009), theoretically.

Its common knowledge that, in any large public company, you can EITHER:

1. Pay dividends
or
2. Run a great company

If you are a technology company, Its also common knowledge that you can EITHER:

1. Pay dividends
or
2. Have a R&D department

One of the two needs to use the available cash.

[IJ Reilly]

Every dollar dividend paid means the value of the company and the share price go down by one dollar. And if you haven't noticed: Apple tries to make the best computers and other devices in the world and increase the value of the company that way. They don't care one damn about idiot investors.

I can't agree with this. Apple already has the highest cash to market cap ratio of all the technology companies. Investors barely notice. Apple is currently accumulating cash at the rate of around $3 billion per quarter, a rate which is almost certain to increase. A very healthy divided (for a tech company) of $1.00/share would cost them a measly $800 million a year -- little more than a dent in their ever-growing vault of cash. Declaring a dividend would, as the poster who mentioned this suggested, stabilize the stock price. Sadly, Apple's board stubbornly refuses to do some things which a grown-up company should do. Declaring a dividend is one of them.

Those who claim that Apple can't pay a dividend to stockholders and do R&D, or that they've got plans for all that money, are plainly wrong.

[BuddyTronic]

:rolleyes: Right lets start handing out gifts and stall the progress of the company.

Dividends are for: Corporations who have a steady cash flow, with:

1. No interest in growth, development, or improvement of any kind.

2. No interest in change. The current system, unchanged, makes just enough to pay dividends and leak massive sums into the pockets of the board members.

Cash is the most valuable asset a company can have (assuming that cash isn't the American dollar in the year 2009), theoretically.

Its common knowledge that, in any large public company, you can EITHER:

1. Pay dividends
or
2. Run a great company

If you are a technology company, Its also common knowledge that you can EITHER:

1. Pay dividends
or
2. Have a R&D department

One of the two needs to use the available cash.


I disagree.

Apple has been subjected to great market manipulation by several key stock analysts and other characters of the media (most of them sponsored by kickbacks from "the other side" I'd say).

By paying a dividend, I think it would allow AAPL shares to get more grip on the upside, instead of being so volatile. Apple should do it just to keep the volatility in check a little bit.

You'd have a huge number of buyers for AAPL stock if they paid a dividend. I mean, I have friends buying T-bills at a loss right now. Apple is pretty solid and everyone knows it, a dividend would really increase the appeal of holding this stock.

It would discourage dumping of the stock on the first hint of negativity from those so very wise stock analysts who don't have a clue about AAPL stock, and are being paid off to smear it.

I can't agree with this. Apple already has the highest cash to market cap ratio of all the technology companies. Investors barely notice. Apple is currently accumulating cash at the rate of around $3 billion per quarter, a rate which is almost certain to increase. A very healthy divided (for a tech company) of $1.00/share would cost them a measly $800 million a year -- little more than a dent in their ever-growing vault of cash. Declaring a dividend would, as the poster who mentioned this suggested, stabilize the stock price. Sadly, Apple's board stubbornly refuses to do some things which a grown-up company should do. Declaring a dividend is one of them.

Those who claim that Apple can't pay a dividend to stockholders and do R&D, or that they've got plans for all that money, are plainly wrong.


+1


So if anyone thinks they know why Apple does not pay dividends on AAPL shares, I'd still genuinely like to know why they do not pay dividends.

[Oxtail]

I think not paying a dividend is very much in AAPL's character as a company. You suggest that grown-up companies pay dividends. Well, AAPL would not be where it is today if it acted like all those other grown-up companies. Grown-up companies take very calculated risks. They don't do things like kill the iPod mini when it's the most popular product in their line. They don't launch into mobile phones when everyone else thinks it's a bad idea in a market they have no experience in.

AAPL exists to make great computers and electronic gadgets. They really don't care about appeasing the analysts and the markets. And that lends a mystique to the company as a whole that other firms would kill for.

AAPL's price moves tremendously when you consider how large their market cap is. The market treats them more like an up-and-coming tech firm with a lot of built-in risk as well as tremendous potential and not like the stodgy blue-chip tech firm that their huge market cap would suggest they are. I think AAPL likes it this way.

[CharlesX]

Dividends are for companies that have a steady and predictable cash flow, like utilities and other regulated monopolies. It helps keep the stock valuable because they don't have much room left to grow. If you want to create new products, spend a lot of money on R&D, and grow, you just don't pay dividends.

[IJ Reilly]

I think not paying a dividend is very much in AAPL's character as a company. You suggest that grown-up companies pay dividends. Well, AAPL would not be where it is today if it acted like all those other grown-up companies. Grown-up companies take very calculated risks. They don't do things like kill the iPod mini when it's the most popular product in their line. They don't launch into mobile phones when everyone else thinks it's a bad idea in a market they have no experience in.

Paying a dividend has nothing to do with taking risks with new products. A company that has accumulated this much cash should either (1) reinvest it in the business, or (2) give some of it to the stockholders. Since there is no way on God's green earth that Apple can spend the money they are accumulating (and no indication that they will), the other option makes more sense.

Dividends are for companies that have a steady and predictable cash flow, like utilities and other regulated monopolies. It helps keep the stock valuable because they don't have much room left to grow. If you want to create new products, spend a lot of money on R&D, and grow, you just don't pay dividends.

No, not really. Apple is not going to spend even a small fraction of the cash they've accumulated on R&D, and they could not do so without massively wasting it. The only conceivable way they could spend even a moderate fraction of it is in a major acquisition -- which looks even less likely, and would probably be a terrible idea anyway.

[BuddyTronic]

Paying a dividend has nothing to do with taking risks with new products. A company that has accumulated this much cash should either (1) reinvest it in the business, or (2) give some of it to the stockholders. Since there is no way on God's green earth that Apple can spend the money they are accumulating (and no indication that they will), the other option makes more sense.



No, not really. Apple is not going to spend even a small fraction of the cash they've accumulated on R&D, and they could not do so without massively wasting it. The only conceivable way they could spend even a moderate fraction of it is in a major acquisition -- which looks even less likely, and would probably be a terrible idea anyway.



Thanks - this seems like a sensible agreement to the idea of paying dividends out with 28 billion cash on hand.

I agree, they can still do a lot of research and acquire companies like TIVO and NVIDIA and still have many billions left over.

If their share price goes up, it's even more available capital for Apple, and a dividend would help on this as I mentioned in my previous post - by causing more shares to be in demand and held long term. More so then without dividends and many fund managers listening to the idiotic stock analysts from the websites.

[Oxtail]

There are people who will not hold AAPL stock because they have money wasting away in a bank. That's a perfectly reasonable stance and those people haven't and probably won't invest in AAPL.

There are others who don't care that AAPL has almost $30 billion sitting there. Some of us are actually attracted by what we view as prudent and very conservative finances which boosts our confidence in the company as a whole.

I see no reason for AAPL to change the same strategy they've followed since they were valued at nothing minus their cash pile up to this day. You want a company that pays out or spends all the money it makes. There are plenty of companies like that out there. Heck, many companies spend money they don't even have to chase bigger growth! AAPL is NOT one of those companies. If that's what you want, there are plenty of technology firms which would better suit your criteria for not "wasting" money. None of them will have anywhere near the sterling balance sheets that AAPL does, though. Hmm, perhaps there is a correlation in there somewhere...

[IJ Reilly]

You want a company that pays out or spends all the money it makes.

Who does? Who said that?

[Oxtail]

Who does? Who said that?


So how much would be enough?

I just don't see the point in about complaining about something that is a vital part of AAPL's corporate character.

AAPL does not pay dividends. AAPL rarely, if ever, touches their cash reserves. AAPL is extremely secretive about everything, sometimes needlessly so. AAPL always gives conservative guidance. AAPL does a lot of things that are not what "grown-up" companies do. Why does AAPL need to change to be more like other companies which are suffering more and doing worse?

[IJ Reilly]

So how much would be enough?

I just don't see the point in about complaining about something that is a vital part of AAPL's corporate character.

AAPL does not pay dividends. AAPL rarely, if ever, touches their cash reserves. AAPL is extremely secretive about everything, sometimes needlessly so. AAPL always gives conservative guidance. AAPL does a lot of things that are not what "grown-up" companies do. Why does AAPL need to change to be more like other companies which are suffering more and doing worse?

It's not vital, it's historical. It's arbitrary. It's also out of date, considering the vast changes in Apple's financial condition over the last five years.

The game is called "capitalism." The way to win the game is by reinvestment of profits into growing the business. The simple, obvious fact is that Apple has been taking in cash at such a clip, that they cannot possibly reinvest any significance portion of it back into the business, unless they do something really foolish, like buy another large company.

So the other option is to give some of that fallow money to the stockholders, who are after all the owners of the company. As I said before, even a very healthy divided of $1.00/share would represent only about one month of Apple's free cash flow. It's an almost negligible amount, but still would make stockholder very happy, and would also message the markets that Apple isn't so worried about the future that they feel the need to stockpile tens of billions of dollars in cash against some future calamity.

[MattInOz]

Wasn't the Dividend questions covered in one of the previous Conference Calls.

Along the lines of "Once you pop, you can't stop"

They pay a health dividend this quarter to buy investor confidence, then they have to keep doing that same or better healthy dividend every quarter to hold investor confidence. If they don't pay anything or as much then the price tanks regardless of other factors which may show the company is strong.

Soon enough no cash left and no money to grow the company.
Which is why growing companies don't pay dividends unless they did from day one.

[Oxtail]

I would suggest that AAPL is not in business to win at the game of capitalism. AAPL exists to create cool products that AAPL employess are proud of.

Other companies are much better at the game of capitalism. They do not seem to be doing as well as AAPL these days, though. Are they closer to winning?

BTW, the game of capitalism does call for ALL cash reserves to be spent or returned to the stockholder. Because cash sitting in a bank is not being productive. So by suggesting that AAPL keep some of it around, you're already forsaking some of the rules of the game.

[Syrus28]

I would suggest that AAPL is not in business to win at the game of capitalism. AAPL exists to create cool products that AAPL employess are proud of.

Other companies are much better at the game of capitalism. They do not seem to be doing as well as AAPL these days, though. Are they closer to winning?

BTW, the game of capitalism does call for ALL cash reserves to be spent or returned to the stockholder. Because cash sitting in a bank is not being productive. So by suggesting that AAPL keep some of it around, you're already forsaking some of the rules of the game.

Not exactly right. A public company such as AAPL exists to please stock holders, not make "cool products that employees are proud of". While these two things may often go hand-in-hand, don't let it cloud your vision. Apple is a public company first, a "cool product maker" second.

Secondly, the game of capitalism does NOT call for all cash reserves to be spent. There is nothing wrong with being conservative with your cash, but after a certain extent it gets silly. Apple can't possibly spend ALL its $30 billion in cash. Therefore, as IJ Reilly suggested, paying a dividend is a logical choice.

Apple is, technically, owned by its stockholders. While they don't exert a direct control, they do expect a return on their investment. That is what being a public company is all about.

[jbernie]

Apple could always spend some of this money quietly buying back shares over a period of a few months.

They have almost 900 million shares outstanding, at around $90 they could pull back around 56 million shares for $5 billion. Given how secretive Apple is I wouldn't be surprised to see them pull it off without others knowing, unless of course they are oblidged to report this.

[IJ Reilly]

Wasn't the Dividend questions covered in one of the previous Conference Calls.

Along the lines of "Once you pop, you can't stop"

They pay a health dividend this quarter to buy investor confidence, then they have to keep doing that same or better healthy dividend every quarter to hold investor confidence. If they don't pay anything or as much then the price tanks regardless of other factors which may show the company is strong.

Soon enough no cash left and no money to grow the company.
Which is why growing companies don't pay dividends unless they did from day one.

No, they declare a dividend and it stays the same for years. Even if the dividend was absolutely ridiculously massive, on the order of 15%, it would still be less than the amount of cash Apple is currently accumulating every year. For "no money left to grow the company" to happen, the dividend would have to staggeringly large, like 25% or more -- and still it would take years. Nobody is suggesting anything even remotely like this.

Apple could always spend some of this money quietly buying back shares over a period of a few months.

They have almost 900 million shares outstanding, at around $90 they could pull back around 56 million shares for $5 billion. Given how secretive Apple is I wouldn't be surprised to see them pull it off without others knowing, unless of course they are oblidged to report this.

Another good way to use mountains of cash, especially in a bad market. Stock repurchases are generally announced. I believe it's required.

[BuddyTronic]

So how much would be enough?

I just don't see the point in about complaining about something that is a vital part of AAPL's corporate character.

AAPL does not pay dividends. AAPL rarely, if ever, touches their cash reserves. AAPL is extremely secretive about everything, sometimes needlessly so. AAPL always gives conservative guidance. AAPL does a lot of things that are not what "grown-up" companies do. Why does AAPL need to change to be more like other companies which are suffering more and doing worse?


I am not complaining - just asking if anyone knows what the reason is, or has ever heard someone at Apple explain their position on dividends. I am guessing there is a real reason, but maybe all of us computer geeks (me included) don't know our finance as well as our Mac's because I still haven't gotten an answer to my question here - it's kind of funny how useless these forums can be sometimes.

I would wish for a dividend to be declared - a buck per share or 2% or whatever. The company can choose to pay dividends to shareholders at any time, but they have so far chosen not to pay dividends.

I am open to the possibility that there is a good reason why Apple chooses not to declare a dividend of any kind to this date. I don't know what it is though, and since I can point out some advantages for Apple to declare a dividend it makes me even more curious as to what the reasons are that they choose not to pay a dividend.

This thread is about finance, so if any readers here are literate in the world of finance, and have insight into the company are out there, and are willing to go through the effort of posting the answer, I'd like that very much and thanks in advance.

Wasn't the Dividend questions covered in one of the previous Conference Calls.

Along the lines of "Once you pop, you can't stop"

They pay a health dividend this quarter to buy investor confidence, then they have to keep doing that same or better healthy dividend every quarter to hold investor confidence. If they don't pay anything or as much then the price tanks regardless of other factors which may show the company is strong.

Soon enough no cash left and no money to grow the company.
Which is why growing companies don't pay dividends unless they did from day one.


OK, I think that sounds like a reasonable answer - I'll note it in my tally.

Thanks for the response

Apple could always spend some of this money quietly buying back shares over a period of a few months.

They have almost 900 million shares outstanding, at around $90 they could pull back around 56 million shares for $5 billion. Given how secretive Apple is I wouldn't be surprised to see them pull it off without others knowing, unless of course they are oblidged to report this.


Yes, share buybacks are the other way to go, and Apple does this. In my view, buybacks can have a similar effect as dividends in reducing the beta volatility.

All insider transactions are publicly reported - of course!

Here you go:
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/it?s=AAPL

[IJ Reilly]

I am open to the possibility that there is a good reason why Apple chooses not to declare a dividend of any kind to this date. I don't know what it is though, and since I can point out some advantages for Apple to declare a dividend it makes me even more curious as to what the reasons are that they choose not to pay a dividend.

The board doesn't really need a good reason, at least not in the way we'd understand it. Several months ago someone asked during an earnings conference call what plans Apple had for their cash. All Steve would say, vaguely, is "cash is king." This suggests that they're positioning the company to use it to leverage something (such as the recent deal locking up production of flat panels from LG), but even if that was the case, the amount they've accumulated is beyond any needs they are likely to have. If they were planning on going hunting for acquisitions, now would be the time. Any sign of it? No. They could easily snap up a bunch of small ventures for chump change, but they aren't doing that either.

So what else are they planning to do with that huge pile of cash? To stack it up and admire it?

[jbernie]

So what else are they planning to do with that huge pile of cash? To stack it up and admire it?

Well, given how Apple likes to keep secrets, $$ is very handy when it comes to making investments, obtaining supplies for a new product etc, anything that helps them avoid stories about them "raising capital" works in their favor. Got out and get all the new components for the next iPhone and pay cash, or as you noted, pay cash to Samsung etc for better prices on flash memory and panels.

The hard part is to find potential major investments that aren't viewed as wasteful, isn't Adobe one of those companies that is at the top of the "possibles" list? But Apple already has some products that compete with Adobe's line up, what benefit do you get for over paying for a company when there is little benefit in merging two strongs applications?

Apple could maybe spend some cash to expand the server line up, get some more applications or management products dedicated to the servers, though I dont follow the Apple server news so this might also be somewhat redundant.

The same goes for Microsoft, you reach a point where you just can't buy anything no matter how much $$$ you have sitting around, wierd position to be in but especially with Microsoft they have to jump through endless antitrust hurdles for even a moderate acquisition. They talked with SAP and only ended up with a working agreement to make their products work better together, they almost through the bank at Yahoo but thanks to Yang umming and ahhing and postering nothing happened and they probably saved a good $25 billion there.

Hmm... another good thing for Apple... with all that cash in the bank maybe they can just use it as a way to avoid hostile takeovers?

Regardless they could probably use up about half of what they have now based on their current inflow of cash and not worry.

[IJ Reilly]

Regardless they could probably use up about half of what they have now based on their current inflow of cash and not worry.

Well, right. We are talking $28 billion here. That's billion with a B. In three months, they'll probably be admiring more than $30 billion stacked up in their vaults. By the end of FY09, $40 billion?

They couldn't spend that much money without being completely reckless. Give the stockholders a little taste, Apple. We're feeling pretty battered and bruised these days. Reward our patience in tough times, just as you reward your executives and board members.