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vniow
Mar 14, 2004, 12:21 PM
Scientists have found a new world orbiting the solar system more than 3 billion kilometres further away from the Sun than Pluto and 40 years away from Earth in a space shuttle.

NASA is expected to announce today the discovery of the space object, which some experts believe could be a new planet.

It is provisionally known as Sedna, after the Inuit goddess of the sea.

The discovery of Sedna 10 billion kilometres from Earth is a testament to the new generation of high-powered telescopes.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,8968352%255E29098,00.html

Counterfit
Mar 14, 2004, 01:35 PM
Interesting...

And I still laugh at that 'tar :D

PlaceofDis
Mar 14, 2004, 01:41 PM
time to re-write the science books

Ambrose Chapel
Mar 14, 2004, 01:52 PM
i say right here and now that we need to put an astronaut on Sedna!
:p

AhmedFaisal
Mar 14, 2004, 03:29 PM
Pluto's status as a planet has been hotly debated for years some saying it is a moon of planet No. 8 Neptune that was thrown out of orbit due to a meteorite/planetesimal impact (possible Pluto's current moon Charon) or that it is a planetesimal that used to have a different orbit that was shifted further inward again due to a meteorite impact. I personally believe with the discovery of more and more Pluto-size and slightly smaller planetesimal objects from the Kuiper-Belt (Sedna is not the first one) it will ultimately lead to Pluto being removed from the list of planets and listed as a planetesimal instead. The more interesting fact is that the very existence of the Kuiper-Belt rules out the existence of another planet which would have be something Neptune-size since if there was such a planet the Kuiper-Belt wouldn't exist. If you look at the space between Jupiter and Neptune its pretty wiped clean. So my bet is it will lead to Sol having 8 planets instead of 9.
Cheers,

Ahmed

Opteron
Mar 14, 2004, 03:45 PM
Go "The Australian" (news paper,) very interesting though, must be very hard to spot since there wold be so little light out there.

MrMacMan
Mar 14, 2004, 10:52 PM
Yeah Pluto is gonna be replaced...

Too bad, I liked pluto...

I thought it was part of that metor belt not another moon...

Ah well...

Sorry Pluto.

virividox
Mar 15, 2004, 02:32 AM
well people are still arguing if sedna will be a planet, hell ppl still argue that pluto isnt a planet!!!

themadchemist
Mar 15, 2004, 06:51 AM
How significant is it whether we call Pluto a planet or a planetesimal? I don't know about this, so I'm wondering...Does it REALLY make that much difference?

BornAgainMac
Mar 15, 2004, 06:58 AM
I wish space was as interesting as SciFi. No Star Destroyers, Cylons, Klingons, Death Stars, Jedi, Borg, or Vipers. Instead of doing the Space Station, it would have been nice to build something that looks like the Enterprise even if it just stayed in Orbit. Maybe in another 500 years we will have a shuttle with phasers since the Taliban will have ships by then.

Krizoitz
Mar 15, 2004, 09:55 AM
So my bet is it will lead to Sol having 8 planets instead of 9.


Naw too much tradition, and it doesn't hurt anyone to keep it there.

Mr. Anderson
Mar 15, 2004, 10:13 AM
It will be debate ad nausium, but nothing will ever come of it in terms of being called a planet. The only way we'll get a tenth planet will be if the one found is significantly larger than Pluto. Like stated above, there has been significant debate on whether Pluto should be a planet (it will always be considered one - even if only by tradition).

D

TEG
Mar 15, 2004, 10:47 AM
I remember a comment in an episode of the original series where Kirk talks about the 10 planets of the Sol System (or Terran System). It is interesting to think that scientists (or maybe writers) thought there was a tenth planet back then, only now to find out it may in fact be true.

TEG

AhmedFaisal
Mar 15, 2004, 11:45 AM
How significant is it whether we call Pluto a planet or a planetesimal? I don't know about this, so I'm wondering...Does it REALLY make that much difference?

Well at first glance none. From a scientific viewpoint however it does make a difference because it decides on the factors that make a planet a planet or a planetesimal a planetesimal. The reason why Pluto was so hotly contested in the first place is because it doesn't conform with the rules that were used so far. That is why it makes a difference because if you say Pluto is a planet, why are for example Vesta, or Ceres, two very large meteorites in the asteroide belt between Mars and Jupiter not planets. Or Sedna, or a whole lot of other equally large objects still to be found in the Kuiper Belt? We say Vesta and Ceres are not planets because they are part of the larger structure of the asteroide belt. Now if we say large Pluto-size objects of the Kuiper Belt such as Sedna are not Planets then how can we say Pluto is one now that it turns out that Pluto might be a former Kuiper Belt object that got its orbit shifted? So from a scientific viewpoint its a very significant issue because it defines the rules by which we map the content of the solar system.
Cheers,

Ahmed

srobert
Mar 15, 2004, 12:13 PM
For reference:

http://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/~jewitt/papers/VARUNA/varuna.jpg

AhmedFaisal
Mar 15, 2004, 01:01 PM
For reference:

http://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/~jewitt/papers/VARUNA/varuna.jpg

Hmm what interests me more is the question whether there is a chance for a Neptune size planet beyond the Kuiper Belt. I remember reading something in Nature about that, saying that it is unlikely for certain reasons. Also what interests me is the current model for the solar system beyond Neptune. There is the Kuiper Belt, but how far do they believe it goes? What is beyond that and before you reach Oort's comet cloud at about 1 lightyear away from the Sun? Empty space? Anyone got some info on that?
Cheers,

Ahmed

srobert
Mar 15, 2004, 01:15 PM
...Also what interests me is the current model for the solar system beyond Neptune. There is the Kuiper Belt, but how far do they believe it goes? What is beyond that and before you reach Oort's comet cloud at about 1 lightyear away from the Sun? Empty space? Anyone got some info on that?
Cheers,

Ahmed

Not to scale but you got rough estimate of distances:

http://www.astro.rug.nl/~mwester/aos/oort_cloud.gif

AhmedFaisal
Mar 15, 2004, 01:24 PM
Not to scale but you got rough estimate of distances:

http://www.astro.rug.nl/~mwester/aos/oort_cloud.gif

I also read in Nature a while ago that there is an strange effect on probes such as Pioneer 10 and 11, as well as the Voyagers that seems to slow them down on the way out, much more than was expected. I remember vaguely reading somewhere else that some scientists believe it might be another planet of enormous size far beyond Pluto, which in order to not contradict the current model of the formation of our solar system which doesn't allow another planet beyond Neptune might have been a vagabond planet that previously was not part of the solar system?
Cheers,

Ahmed

AhmedFaisal
Mar 15, 2004, 01:59 PM
I also read in Nature a while ago that there is an strange effect on probes such as Pioneer 10 and 11, as well as the Voyagers that seems to slow them down on the way out, much more than was expected. I remember vaguely reading somewhere else that some scientists believe it might be another planet of enormous size far beyond Pluto, which in order to not contradict the current model of the formation of our solar system which doesn't allow another planet beyond Neptune might have been a vagabond planet that previously was not part of the solar system?

http://www.newtonphysics.on.ca/Anomalous/Acceleration.html

Dust. How boring. :o
Cheers,

Ahmed

x86isslow
Mar 15, 2004, 02:08 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3511678.stm

In that article, they mention that the name could be changed so that it matches the Graeco-Roman names of the other planets. I personally don't see the need for that. Any thoughts?

Also, I never knew there was a KB astro-body named Varuna.. my name is Varun (from God Varuna), cool. :cool:

agreenster
Mar 15, 2004, 02:38 PM
This just goes to show how little we actually know about the universe, if we are even still finding planets in our own solar system.

Macmaniac
Mar 15, 2004, 06:41 PM
The sad thing is that even if we do get new Science Textbooks, that won't happen for a long time, by that we will have landed on Mars. I'd like to see another planet classified, I always liked the number 10, 10 planets is such a nice round number.

Doctor Q
Mar 16, 2004, 12:06 PM
Sedna doesn't sound like much of a tourist destination (20 degrees above absolute zero at the distant part of its orbit), but observing it from afar should be interesting, as we try to learn why it rotates so slowly (only once every 40 of our days), why it is shiny (it reflects 1/5 to 1/4 of the sunlight it receives), what it is made of, and whether it has a moon.

Will Disney name a dog cartoon character "Sedna"?

bennetsaysargh
Mar 16, 2004, 04:42 PM
i will call pluto a planet. i always will because it's the way i was taught. maybe add sedna. no chance we'll be going there anytime within this millennium. too cold :(.

Counterfit
Mar 16, 2004, 05:12 PM
The sad thing is that even if we do get new Science Textbooks, that won't happen for a long time, by that we will have landed on Mars. I'd like to see another planet classified, I always liked the number 10, 10 planets is such a nice round number. I wonder if anyone wants to "add" to Gustav Holst's work for the newer planets... ;)