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MacRumors
Feb 17, 2009, 02:52 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2009/02/17/android-market-to-offer-24-hour-return-policy-on-apps/)

In the wake of recent announcements (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/02/17/everyone-has-an-app-store/) regarding upcoming mobile application stores on platforms other than the iPhone, additional details about these new stores are beginning to come to light.

Notably, Androinica reports (http://androinica.com/2009/02/16/important-notes-on-android-market/) that Google's Android Market is offering a 24-hour return policy on application purchases.App browsing is a breeze when all of the products are free to try, so how will that change now that some apps cost money? Well, it basically won't. Any app purchased from the Android Market can be returned within 24 hours from the time of purchase. That means from the moment you buy that app, not install it, so be sure to install right after purchasing and make a decision on whether or not paid apps are worth keeping.Androinica also points out several other items of interest in the Android Market Business and Program Policies document (http://www.google.com/intl/en_us/mobile/android/market-policies.html), including the lack of application upgrades within the market, meaning that users will have to obtain upgrades directly from developers. Google also reveals that all billing disputes related to app purchases must be directed to the developers or payment providers, not Google.

Article Link: Android Market to Offer 24-Hour Return Policy on Apps (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2009/02/17/android-market-to-offer-24-hour-return-policy-on-apps/)



Sky Blue
Feb 17, 2009, 02:53 PM
Apple needs this!

h.21
Feb 17, 2009, 02:57 PM
So Android has a download and separate install process? Yeah, I'm gonna go with "That's exactly what Apple DOESN'T need."

It's a wonder that there have been virtually no other andriod devices announced. What a garbage platform.

plumbingandtech
Feb 17, 2009, 03:01 PM
including the lack of application upgrades within the market, meaning that users will have to obtain upgrades directly from developers

Cop.


Google also reveals that all billing disputes related to app purchases must be directed to the developers or payment providers, not Google.


Out.

I swear google gets more and more wimpy and more and more "the emperor has no clothes" each month that goes by.

When you only have a dozen apps in the store you would think it would be easy to handle this sort of stuff..

:rolleyes:

chr1s60
Feb 17, 2009, 03:11 PM
There is a good and a bad in this. On the good side, if you buy and app and it sucks you have no loss of money. On the bad side, anyone can download an app whenever they need a game to play when they are bored and then simply return it. Just as there is with pretty much everything else, there will be users who abuse this system. Hopefully you can only return an app once.

Also, I am still not impressed with the whole android market.

SFStateStudent
Feb 17, 2009, 03:33 PM
So, you can try it out, then dump it at no cost to you. Glad I don't have Google stock anymore...:eek:

miketcool
Feb 17, 2009, 03:43 PM
So Android has a download and separate install process? Yeah, I'm gonna go with "That's exactly what Apple DOESN'T need."

It's a wonder that there have been virtually no other andriod devices announced. What a garbage platform.

Try using a G1. I go onto the Market App, find an app I like, hit download, it downloads in the background like Safari. Notifies you when it's done and you install it like a normal installer. You get to read what core processes the app uses as a security precaution and its installed. You can choose to open it or continue shopping. Its nice having background processes like this, I can go on my way and come back to it later.

Now I get a return policy, woo hoo!

The devices haven't been announced yet, like new iPhones haven't been announced yet. Here are the companies releasing Android devices THIS YEAR:

HTC (they make the G1 now, and the G2 is coming)
Lenovo
Sony Ericsson (Android + Cybershot + Walkman, I will own)
Huawei Tech
Motorola
Samsung
Archos
Dell (maybe)
Kogan Tech (postponed)

Don't go knocking things you haven't tried. I can knock windows, because I use them, I can knock Dell, because I've supported them. I cannot knock the PalmPre because I have not used one, so I do not know. Android is Linux based and a lot more robust then many people have let on.

OS X Dude
Feb 17, 2009, 03:49 PM
Android is Linux based.

As is OS X, both Mac and iPhone/iPod Touch versions. It borrows heavily from FreeBSD and Apple actually "donate" code back to the BSD developers to use in the BSD OS.

However, with you all the way on the 'not bashing things you ain't tried' front. The Palm Pre looks bad ass, blatantly manufactured to "assassinate" the iPhone it seems, but looks amazing. Will definitely be trying one when they hit UK shores, probably exclusively to 02 like a certain other phone ;)

lowbatteries
Feb 17, 2009, 04:44 PM
As is OS X, both Mac and iPhone/iPod Touch versions. It borrows heavily from FreeBSD and Apple actually "donate" code back to the BSD developers to use in the BSD OS.

OS X is not Linux-based. It is UNIX.

Linux is a "Unix-like" operating system.

ThunderSkunk
Feb 17, 2009, 04:49 PM
It'd be nice for users if Apple offered a "return" (more like early delete) policy. It'd keep devs honest as well. You make a crashy, featureless piece of junk, a hundred million people might buy it, but a hundred million people have recourse too.

Items with too high a return could possibly be eliminated from the app store as well.

ewoods
Feb 17, 2009, 04:50 PM
So Android has a download and separate install process? Yeah, I'm gonna go with "That's exactly what Apple DOESN'T need."

Sorry to walk all over your rant, but Apple ALREADY has this. Nearly every application I buy for my iPhone I purchase from iTunes on my computer, then install at my convenience. As miketcool said, it's nice to be able to keep shopping for apps while something you just bought downloads in the background. The "purchase, wait for install, purchase, wait for install..." method directly from the iPhone just doesn't do it for me. And since I don't have 3G coverage in my area, I rarely purchase any apps while I'm away from home.

Zincous
Feb 17, 2009, 05:20 PM
Yeah hopefully there is a limit on the amount of times you can return an app.

Just buy it, return it before 24 hours and then buy it again and keep doing this....:rolleyes:

sunfast
Feb 17, 2009, 05:27 PM
SEGA would have been £5.99 worse off if this was the case - they would've had Super Monkey Ball back from me rather fast

Mr. Owl
Feb 17, 2009, 05:27 PM
So Android has a download and separate install process? Yeah, I'm gonna go with "That's exactly what Apple DOESN'T need."
Got to agree with that... but some sort of way to delete an application within a specific time frame and get your money back needs to be implemented on the iPhone.

I just bought this "Distance Meter Pro" application... only thing I'm finding it's good for is putting a good deal of distance between me and the $2.99 I spent on the darn thing.

Mr. Owl
Feb 17, 2009, 05:33 PM
OS X is not Linux-based. It is UNIX.

With Leopard you can't even say UNIX-Based anymore, they made it fully UNIX compliant. (http://www.apple.com/macosx/technology/unix.html) Exactly what that means to me or any other average user... well, I couldn't fully explain that and wouldn't pretend to know.

Can't help but being better than any flavor of Linux I've tried...

chewietobbacca
Feb 17, 2009, 05:34 PM
As others have addressed, the same process happens through iTunes too

Also, Android is very popular among college groups learning systems and programming for systems. There's some very neat stuff coming out in the pipeline for it

Mykbibby
Feb 17, 2009, 06:15 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5G77 Safari/525.20)

I hope the iPhone gets updated soon... I think Apple will hit it out of the park.

twoodcc
Feb 17, 2009, 07:27 PM
seems like a good idea. though that wouldn't help the developers very much

minik
Feb 17, 2009, 07:48 PM
seems like a good idea. though that wouldn't help the developers very much

Exactly. buyer remorse much.

Jess.H
Feb 17, 2009, 08:01 PM
Apple needs this!http://www.dineoxford.com/pics/img/1856/y09w0131xdtc/82(2).gif

No kidding. There are a ton of apps that aren't nearly as good as I expected once I've played around with them for a bit.

DocNYz
Feb 17, 2009, 08:32 PM
I've been saying this for a while now, there should be a "trial" period the same way that we can rent movies from the iTunes store! It's like drop/add for classes, you try it out, if you don't like it, you stop going with no pentalty - in this case it would be you have 24 hours to try out the app if you select the "trial" option for FREE, and if you don't purchase it, then it automatically deletes itself from your phone. How hard could that be? It's no use going by just ratings as a way to decide whether or not to download an app - I'm tired of idiotic people that don't know how to use their iPod touches giving good iPhone apps one star because they don't know how to open it and giving horrible apps 5 stars because they don't understand anything about functionality, productivity, or efficiency.

sesnir
Feb 17, 2009, 09:03 PM
As a buyer, I'd like to be able to return apps... but as a developer, I hate the idea.

Why?

1) Impulse buying. I do it myself... I just go browsing the store and buy a few games that look cool. I might play them for 10 minutes and be done with it forever. There's nothing wrong with the stuff I downloaded, I just 'get the general idea' and want to move on to something new (like Rolando). With a refund system, we'd all get too critical and we'd end up returning most games after we experienced the gimmick.

2) Hell, in 24 hours you could beat any iPhone game out there right now. If you were that cheap, you could buy a game, play through it, and simply return it an hour or two later. That's not fair to the developers...

3) Apple doesn't have to stick to the 24 hour refund period exactly... they could instead limit it to 5 minutes of playtime or something. That's a decent compromise... sales would be down across the board still, and it might cause some developers to front-load their games, or instinctively make the first 5 minutes essentially one big advertisement for the rest of the game (bragging about features/items/maps that lay beyond the first 5 minutes).

4) Apple should instead add a new category to the app store - Demos. These would be where all of the "Lite" applications go. Encourage developers to submit demos with their full application submission. Maybe even offer an extra incentive... like instead of 70/30 profit sharing, make it 71/29 if you provide a demo. I don't know. Maybe only demos get featured, then. Something.

But then, it's not fair having an app store with such a poor review system. No dates on any reviews... nice. No way for the developer to respond to any reviews, or to contact the reviewer... nice...

Adding a refund system like Google's would be the final nail in the coffin.

And let's face it... a refund system would be costing Apple money, too. I don't think they're likely to implement one for that reason, but they can certainly go down some other paths...

kainjow
Feb 17, 2009, 09:15 PM
This is the same concept behind shareware which has existed since the dawn of man. It's a good thing because it'll force developers to put more effort into their apps instead of churning out dozen of $0.99 pieces of crap like in the App Store :)

kdarling
Feb 17, 2009, 09:45 PM
It's been common for years to have trial software on other platforms. The period is often two weeks or more. (Slingplayer's trial is a month.)

That gives enough time to really see if the app is better than others like it, and/or just to see if it's as useful to you as you thought.

However, I can see not allowing a long trial period for games... and perhaps for cheap stupid or trick apps that you'd only use a couple of times anyway for fun.

bizzaregood
Feb 17, 2009, 10:00 PM
*havent read other post. i have food time now.*
Cons: (for apple)
The only probably i can see with apple adopting this is people buying cracking and returning. So untill apple makes a fix for cracked apps ( a real fix ) this idea for apple would prompt a lot more cracking.

Pros:(for apple)
I would loveee to be able to try some things because theres been few apps i have seen a on a friends phone, thought it would be worth the money, but when i try it, its not. tetris is one of the few i think is worth the money

""4) Apple should instead add a new category to the app store - Demos. These would be where all of the "Lite" applications go. Encourage developers to submit demos with their full application submission. Maybe even offer an extra incentive... like instead of 70/30 profit sharing, make it 71/29 if you provide a demo. I don't know. Maybe only demos get featured, then. Something.""

Perfect i think

johnnyjibbs
Feb 18, 2009, 02:27 AM
I think a lot of the 'fad app' sales (e.g. iFart mobile) would fall dramatically if Apple implemented such a policy. People often buy apps charged at $1 on a whim and have no complaints. But 2 days later, they may decide that they've had their enjoyment and refund it back after novelty value has worn out. if there was an option to do so However, such people would not be disatisfied not to receive a refund as it was money well spent, just that they would probably never use it again so if a refund was available they would take it...

Separate install and download? Get real... :rolleyes:

russellelly
Feb 18, 2009, 02:58 AM
Surely the solution is simple - allow developers to choose whether or not they want to implement a trial, and for how long. I can see no reason for it to be Android/iTunes/whatever global policy either way.

Eraserhead
Feb 18, 2009, 03:30 AM
Also, Android is very popular among college groups learning systems and programming for systems.

Does this mean any more than your college offering a course with Android?

DukeofAnkh
Feb 18, 2009, 07:45 AM
Sorry to walk all over your rant, but Apple ALREADY has this. Nearly every application I buy for my iPhone I purchase from iTunes on my computer, then install at my convenience. As miketcool said, it's nice to be able to keep shopping for apps while something you just bought downloads in the background. The "purchase, wait for install, purchase, wait for install..." method directly from the iPhone just doesn't do it for me. And since I don't have 3G coverage in my area, I rarely purchase any apps while I'm away from home.

When shopping from iPhone, you don't have to wait for it to install, you can go back into the app store and keep browsing and buying... I've had, I think, 3 apps downloading simultaneously on mine. Just saying.

As for buying in iTunes then installing, does the G1 have anything like this? 'Cause, honestly, it's often easier to browse around the store in iTunes than on iPhone. I wouldn't wan to be forced to download stuff from iphone.

Chupa Chupa
Feb 18, 2009, 08:39 AM
Apple needs this!


Apple doesn't need this. It just creates more work for Apple who has to process the refund. Let the market decide what apps are worth the money. Smart developers offer free "lite" versions to test the apps out. That is a smart business decision. Anyone who buys an app untried buys at their own risk, and understands that risk. People need to spend wisely.

question fear
Feb 18, 2009, 09:01 AM
So, you can try it out, then dump it at no cost to you. Glad I don't have Google stock anymore...:eek:

Er...every other smartphone OS has software that offers demos very similar to this. In fact, this past weekend I was trying a chess game for my winmob phone, I had 3 days to play it and then it expired unless I registered. And over several years of owning Palm, Apple and windows mobile devices I've generally only made purchases that were higher than $10.00 if I could demo them first, or see a video of them in action. I've got about $75.00 worth of software on my winmob phone, but tested at least $150.00 worth before weeding out the stuff that looked good but post-demo I realized I didn't need.

And for some software 24 hours isn't enough time. But it's a good start, especially for more expensive products (anything above $5.00 or so) so you aren't gambling on something you end up hating. It probably saves some money and time for google and the developers, since they don't have to deal with someone who buys an app and then realizes it's not what they wanted. They have time to determine that without having to go back and bug someone about how it didn't do what they described, etc.

I'm seriously shocked that people are so hostile to this concept...it's actually incredibly good for the consumer.

CTYankee
Feb 18, 2009, 09:44 AM
I like the 24 hour trial period, but no upgrades via the store? I'll keep the Apple store's way, thanks!

miketcool
Feb 18, 2009, 09:56 AM
I'm seriously shocked that people are so hostile to this concept...it's actually incredibly good for the consumer.

We're talking people who KNOW theyre paying way too much for voice and data at AT&T for a phone that won't copy and paste, multi-task, tether, or view all websites. A competitor is offering something the iPhone isn't and its time to whine.

"The Palm Pre has to suck because I paid $499 for this phone."

"Android lets us return Apps that are bad and get our money back, please. What about people who impulsively buy apps that turn out to be bad. I'd hate to get a fair refund!"

"Big deal, your phone has an 8mp camera and a xenon flash. Apple made MY camera."

"Physical keys? Are you crazy, I love relearning typing."

miketcool
Feb 18, 2009, 10:00 AM
I like the 24 hour trial period, but no upgrades via the store? I'll keep the Apple store's way, thanks!

It really sucks. Whenever an update is available, I get notified immediately in my notifications tab and can download the updates on the spot. Apple has it right, no one should have effortless updates like in Android. We should all go to the store and check for ourselves.

Afterall, It's easy to keep track of hundreds of apps that way. I mean, thats how I do it on my mac at home, surf the web for hours locating updates because its to hard to use software update or the auto update services the apps provide.:confused:

overcast
Feb 18, 2009, 10:07 AM
As is OS X, both Mac and iPhone/iPod Touch versions. It borrows heavily from FreeBSD and Apple actually "donate" code back to the BSD developers to use in the BSD OS.

However, with you all the way on the 'not bashing things you ain't tried' front. The Palm Pre looks bad ass, blatantly manufactured to "assassinate" the iPhone it seems, but looks amazing. Will definitely be trying one when they hit UK shores, probably exclusively to 02 like a certain other phone ;)

So Linux is BSD now ? lol :rolleyes:

chewietobbacca
Feb 18, 2009, 10:26 AM
Does this mean any more than your college offering a course with Android?

Sure, there are courses just doing it for learning, but a lot of it is in support of a professor or TA or whatever that's trying to get something bigger out. It's got a pretty good flexibility too with Linux and the potential hardware choices out there

ewoods
Feb 18, 2009, 10:39 AM
When shopping from iPhone, you don't have to wait for it to install, you can go back into the app store and keep browsing and buying... I've had, I think, 3 apps downloading simultaneously on mine. Just saying.

Oh I know, but it still takes you away from the app store. It's like if Firefox shut down every time you downloaded something. Sure you could just re-open it and browse back to the page you were on, but how inconvenient would that be?

motti
Feb 18, 2009, 11:33 AM
What I'm reading between the lines is that the Android Devs must be very sure that there is no way one can "return" an application within 24 hours after having "saved" it on one's mobile.

So that means either there is a control mechanism in the phone which won't let you get to the apps (and which won't be disclosed) or there is an over-the-air control mechanism which checks each app if it has been paid for.

Neither does sound good to me :(

ChrisA
Feb 18, 2009, 12:10 PM
Notice that right after Adobe introduced the 30 day free trial for LightRoom Apple was forced to offer the same 30 day trial for Aperture. Apple does directly respond to direct competition.

sesnir
Feb 18, 2009, 12:42 PM
Another thought... doesn't a trial period for a 99 cent app seem like overkill? If it was a $20 application or something, then fine, you want to do the research and take the time to make an informed purchase... but a 99 cent app?

Do you need a trial of a candy bar before you put a dollar in the machine? :P

The only trial system I support is an optional one heh. And while trials may make sense for non-game apps, I don't think they're needed for iphone games since, as a mobile platform, most games are designed to be playable in short bursts (meaning a trial would give away too much of the game in most cases).

ewoods
Feb 18, 2009, 01:20 PM
Another thought... doesn't a trial period for a 99 cent app seem like overkill? If it was a $20 application or something, then fine, you want to do the research and take the time to make an informed purchase... but a 99 cent app?

I agree. There should at least be a price point at which an app becomes returnable. Otherwise you run into a situation where people will be downloading 99 cent "throw-away" apps when they need something to do while waiting in the doctor's office and then just return them when they're done. I can see it working for the over $10 apps though. I'd love to get one of the commercial dictionaries available for the iPhone but because there are several for $25 or more, I'm just not sure which one to choose. It would be nice to be able to get two or three of them, try them out, and just keep the one I like and return the others. (A decent rating system would also be an acceptable alternative).

macnews
Feb 18, 2009, 01:51 PM
There are sound economic reasons why Apple should have some sort of system and why they should avoid it all together.

From Apple's point of view, they have created a system of low priced apps - many at the $1.99 or $0.99 range. With a system like this you don't have huge margins for things like returns. This system relies on many sales to make decent returns. It is low where most consumers don't mind the low price and Apple's system can offer access to a large market more incentivized by the device and its capabilities.

Consumers of course would prefer some sort of return policy because buyers remorse is a real consideration. The remorse could be due to poor software, a true reason to return something you purchased. Remorse can also come from just not enjoying what you purchased - no fault of the developer, you just made a bad decision. Then you have remorse from spending of money you didn't have or someone else (like a wife or significant other who isn't as technically inclined as you thus upset you spent more $$$) thinks you shouldn't have spent. Again, not the developers fault.

Developers are probably torn. In some ways offering a return policy will strengthen those who really have worth while programs and could actually allow them to increase what they charge. In effect, a return policy would separate the wheat from the chafe. Consumers may not mind paying more if a safety net exists.

The big question is will the improved returns from a "safety net" return policy out weight the losses from returns? Apple's review system could also back fire on a return policy. Imagine an app gets a ton of returns just because people don't use it and have remorse due to no fault of the app or developer. This could lower sales and drive developers away from creating apps for the iPhone in the long run.

The answer I think lies in better info on part of the developers. They should have a more full featured website. They should also consider making a "lite" version available. Ideally, it would be great if Apple could allow for apps to expire after a certain number of uses or time period of use.

I think Google's policy will backfire just not sure if we will hear much about it. Why? Not as many users and the bulk who are using Andriod phones right now are more technically savvy, thus I think less likely to return apps than say your typical iPhone user. The iPhone has been in the wild for a while now and has much more broader use than Andriod phones so it will take a while before we hear the true outcome.

question fear
Feb 18, 2009, 03:12 PM
macnews: I think a 24/48 hour demo period would actually be great for apps above a certain price threshhold. Otherwise it becomes quite the gamble, since you won't know until you buy it if it is worth the $10, $15, $20 etc. Especially as docs to go and other productivity tools really start getting rolled out...Dataviz isn't going to sell docs to go as a .99 app. Rather than sell a "lite" version, they get the chance to show someone why the full app is worth whatever they're going to charge.

It's significantly better for the consumer, and could help many of the developers of more expensive applications get the word out without having to sell "lite" versions, etc.

jdk2man
Feb 18, 2009, 06:32 PM
Two things here:
When I buy software at Best Buy, I dont get to return it in 24hours, ie. games and such. If I paid $60 for a game and dont like it, well, I have another game on my shelf.
Obviously, alot of big games have demos or "movies" of their games but I usually dont get those.
So why should you in the apple store get a refund if you dont like it? Especially if its <$10.

Which brings me to my second thing, .99 cent apps.
I cant think the last time I bought anything for my Windows mobile phone that was under $10. maybe sometimes $9.99, but never under a buck.

It amazes me all the whining iPhone users do over a friggin dollar app. (i happen to be an iPhone user BTW so no flaming). I mean, be happy you have a dollar app. You aint never gonna see that anywhere else!

Whats sad for developers is that the expectation is to sell it for under $10. So now we are dependant on mass sales to make any profit. I cant imagine spend months on a cool app, put it in the store for .99 cents and get a hundred sales and have disappear behind all the fart and bouncing apps.

I cant wait till the devs wake up and start creating killer apps that they sell for $15 - $30. And the day of the dollar app is gone.
But when that happens, you will have to have a trial or demo.

interesting times.

mstream2008
Feb 18, 2009, 11:09 PM
There is a misunderstanding here.
'Upgrades' are not 'updates'. In Google terms they are different.


The use of the word ‘upgrade’ should mean that Google is not referring to version updates that address bugs, complaints, and new features
link (http://androinica.com/2009/02/16/important-notes-on-android-market/)

mstream2008
Feb 18, 2009, 11:18 PM
1) With a refund system, we'd all get too critical and we'd end up returning most games after we experienced the gimmick.
Why? Actually all online resellers allow and have always been allowing refunds. PalmGear, PocketGear, Handango, MobiHand, softwaremarket.nokia.com - they all allow refunds. Even within a month.
If an app is really useful, several 'refund abusers' will not hurt the sales.
Such a system contributes to creating more serious apps, which are more expensive than 2 or 3 USD.

Mastidon
Feb 19, 2009, 04:14 AM
As a developer, I think this has to be the single worst idea in modern history. It prevents us from investing more time and effort in an app knowing all good and well that somebody can easily pirate the app now. Google will have no way to track if you ininstalled the app or not. You are now depending on trusting consumers which IMO is simply insane.

And I completely agree with the point, when is the last time ANY retail store such as Best Buy let you return an open game because you didn't like it?

kas23
Feb 19, 2009, 04:24 AM
We're talking people who KNOW theyre paying way too much for voice and data at AT&T for a phone that won't copy and paste, multi-task, tether, or view all websites. A competitor is offering something the iPhone isn't and its time to whine.

"The Palm Pre has to suck because I paid $499 for this phone."

"Android lets us return Apps that are bad and get our money back, please. What about people who impulsively buy apps that turn out to be bad. I'd hate to get a fair refund!"

"Big deal, your phone has an 8mp camera and a xenon flash. Apple made MY camera."

"Physical keys? Are you crazy, I love relearning typing."


+1

These are the same people who would be outright praising this system if Apple came up with it first. It's kind of pathetic.

kas23
Feb 19, 2009, 04:30 AM
As a developer, I think this has to be the single worst idea in modern history. It prevents us from investing more time and effort in an app knowing all good and well that somebody can easily pirate the app now. Google will have no way to track if you ininstalled the app or not. You are now depending on trusting consumers which IMO is simply insane.

And I completely agree with the point, when is the last time ANY retail store such as Best Buy let you return an open game because you didn't like it?

You can already pirate iPhone apps via crackulous. As for this statement:

It prevents us from investing more time and effort in an app...

I think it will actually encourage developers to spend more time and effort on their apps because once the constumer finds out he or she downloaded a buggy, unfinished piece of garbage, then it's game over for that app. If a developer truly truly spends time on creating an above average app and the consumer finds it entertaining or useful, then there is nothing to worry about.

mstream2008
Feb 19, 2009, 07:19 AM
It prevents us from investing more time and effort in an app knowing all good and well that somebody can easily pirate the app now.
When you upload your app to Google Android Market, you can enable Copy Protection feature
http://www.mobile-stream.com/temp/paidmarket1.jpg


Google will have no way to track if you ininstalled the app or not.
That's not the case. Google has control over uninstalling. Google can remotely remove an app.

miketcool
Feb 19, 2009, 08:44 AM
Two things here:
When I buy software at Best Buy, I dont get to return it in 24hours, ie. games and such...So why should you in the apple store get a refund if you dont like it?

Didn't you just answer your own question? If Best Buy isn't offering a money back guarantee, but Apple is, wouldn't you buy from Apple instead of Best Buy?

Also, being able to control how apps are downloaded and uninstalled, means that Apple can make the system work. Best Buy can't implement it, because you can make a copy and keep the game while returning the disk it came on.

Returns on digital downloads will push for higher quality applications, this is a good thing...

miketcool
Feb 19, 2009, 09:01 AM
Separate install and download? Get real...

Ok, I am going to help clarify what this process is like for all you iPhoners out there.

While Google works on a desktop sync suite for Android, you can download apps via Android Market.

Browse for an application; search, categories, etc. Not the best implimentation, but s-i-m-p-l-e. Find the app, expand the reviews and decide to buy.

Download. In the future this will use Google Checkout for paid apps.
Download icon shows up in the notifications bar, much like having the download window in Safari/Firefox/whatever. Continue browsing while the app downloads. Over 3G and Wifi, its almost instant.

Install or download more apps. This isn't like the iPhone, where you have to quit Market and open a separate app. It just runs in the background, and you can continue shopping, texting, whatever as it installs. This is usually a few seconds also.

Open, or do whatever you want until youre ready to open your new app.

It really is a very simple system. Downloads/installs/messages happen in the bar at the top while you continue doing whatever you want.

northy014
Feb 19, 2009, 10:11 AM
Surely Android's implementation of the Market is more difficult than the comparative one on Apple, due to the fact that they know in the future the Apps will have to be compatible with many different types of phones.

Mastidon
Feb 20, 2009, 03:26 AM
You can already pirate iPhone apps via crackulous.

You and I are able to do that but the average user is not. This return policy allows anybody to be a pirate.

Mastidon
Feb 20, 2009, 03:28 AM
That's not the case. Google has control over uninstalling. Google can remotely remove an app.

Yes but will they when you ask for a return? I doubt that very much.

cublah
Feb 21, 2009, 10:23 AM
Yeah hopefully there is a limit on the amount of times you can return an app.

Just buy it, return it before 24 hours and then buy it again and keep doing this....:rolleyes:

So what's stopping someone buying an app and 'saying' he or she don't like it and getting a refund and keeping the App?

question fear
Feb 21, 2009, 11:16 AM
So what's stopping someone buying an app and 'saying' he or she don't like it and getting a refund and keeping the App?

There's probably a remote disable.