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Mord
Mar 24, 2004, 04:42 PM
from what i have read photoshop cs is considrably slower than 7 so whats the point in upgradeing? whould yoy recommend shelling out for extra features?

webdesignlab
Mar 28, 2004, 01:14 PM
from what i have read photoshop cs is considrably slower than 7 so whats the point in upgradeing? whould yoy recommend shelling out for extra features?

well.....

photoshop cs (8) has the ability to work with all images in 16 bit, this increases the output quality of the final prints.... whereas all other versions worked in 8bit

that is a huge diffrence....

one thing im not overly happy with is they have done away with the dock for all the nav windows....i really liked that in PS7

just my 99p's worth

TBR
Mar 28, 2004, 01:21 PM
Well it runs like a bag of nails on my G4 533 :(

God I need a new Mac

Westside guy
Mar 28, 2004, 01:56 PM
Beware, strong political statement ahead...

I have Photoshop 7, and currently don't plan to ever upgrade again. In Photoshop CS they've incorporated some third-party code that intentionally removes functionality. It's probably functionality you don't need; but a precedent has been set and I don't think we should just accept it.

Apparently some banks are not happy with the high quality available in current scanning and printing current technology. They don't want you to be able to scan images of money - something that actually is perfectly legal, since you can freely use scaled images of real currency in print articles, advertising, etc. So these banks came up with code that recognizes images of money, and will not allow you to scan them.

Why should this matter? Look at our current political climate. What if elements on the political left don't want you photocopying (or doing OCR on) anything containing certain words that they deem to constitute "hate speech"? What if elements on the political right decide you shouldn't be able to scan words or images that are "anti-American" or "anti-Freedom"? What if they already have? Do you want these decisions to be made for you?

If you're not already aware of this, check out the results of this Google search for further reading (http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozclient&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&q=photoshop+scan+money+OR+currency)

Mord
Mar 28, 2004, 02:00 PM
no upgrading for me

damn my hatred for corel photopaint otherwise i'd switch

jihad the movie
Mar 28, 2004, 02:07 PM
Stay with 7, it is fast, and does everything else you need. I went from Photoshop 3.5 to 7, so I don't think upgrading to Photoshop CS is really worth it unless you absolutely need 16 bit.

legion
Mar 28, 2004, 03:49 PM
Beware, strong political statement ahead...

I have Photoshop 7, and currently don't plan to ever upgrade again. In Photoshop CS they've incorporated some third-party code that intentionally removes functionality. It's probably functionality you don't need; but a precedent has been set and I don't think we should just accept it.

Apparently some banks are not happy with the high quality available in current scanning and printing current technology. They don't want you to be able to scan images of money - something that actually is perfectly legal, since you can freely use scaled images of real currency in print articles, advertising, etc. So these banks came up with code that recognizes images of money, and will not allow you to scan them.

Why should this matter? Look at our current political climate. What if elements on the political left don't want you photocopying (or doing OCR on) anything containing certain words that they deem to constitute "hate speech"? What if elements on the political right decide you shouldn't be able to scan words or images that are "anti-American" or "anti-Freedom"? What if they already have? Do you want these decisions to be made for you?

If you're not already aware of this, check out the results of this Google search for further reading (http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozclient&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&q=photoshop+scan+money+OR+currency)


There's a fix for this already out there. I wouldn't upgrade to PS CS until I knew I could get rid of this restriction and there's a easy little hack already available out on the web. Do a little search and you'll find it. (It's zipped with a sample off-scale--so it's legal-- US currency image to test if the functionality has been restored)

Danrose1977
Mar 29, 2004, 08:14 AM
Basicly it depends on what you want to do:

Are you:

a) A designer finding that you need to work 16bit images 100% of the time?

or

b) Anybody else....

My company upgraded.... three of us upgraded everybody else didn't bother.

SumDumGuy
Mar 29, 2004, 08:48 AM
I also, have decided not to upgrade to CS because of the fact that I cannot scan currency.

I occassionally create coupons which look like US currency for clients. I scan the appropriate denomination, replace the picture of the President with "Crazy Joe" from Crazy Joe's Used Cars or whatever, and basically use the original scanned image as a starting point for what will eventually bear little serious resemblance to actual US currency.

Now Adobe decides that I can't use the de-facto standard image editing application for this, because I "might" be a counterfeiter? I'll stick with Photoshop 7 thank you. CS might deter some "at-home" counterfeiters working at home with their ink-jet printer, but it won't effect the real criminals at all. It just hurts the honest user such as myself. And like Westside Guy noted, where will it end? Today, I can't scan currency. Tomorrow what other freedoms may be taken away?

Kid Red
Mar 29, 2004, 09:00 AM
I haven't upgraded yet because I feel there was not enough features to make the upgrade worthwhile. 2 people I know who did upgrade have cursed about CS and downgraded back to 7. Both were PC users, so you figure if they are unhappy, something must be really wrong with CS.

CS seems more like a .5 free upgrade then a new "CS" or "8" moniker.

michaelrjohnson
Apr 6, 2004, 02:42 PM
as stated above, unless you really need the new features, which i'm not sure called for a full-point upgrade, stick with 7. But, you know, they are both great programs and i'm sure you'd be happy with both. I'd say: save your money.

briankonar
Apr 6, 2004, 02:53 PM
although i could care less about not being able to scan currency, the fact the they actually incorporated code on behalf of the U.S. government makes me say no to it, and i'm looking for alternatives to Adobe products now because of this. As far as I'm aware, nobody feels CS is worth the upgrade (neither does my school, illinois institute of art).

Thirteenva
Apr 6, 2004, 03:06 PM
We've decided not to upgrade, primarily because we felt the new features were not compelling enough to us at this point.

Thirteenva
Apr 6, 2004, 03:11 PM
Why should this matter? Look at our current political climate. What if elements on the political left don't want you photocopying (or doing OCR on) anything containing certain words that they deem to constitute "hate speech"? What if elements on the political right decide you shouldn't be able to scan words or images that are "anti-American" or "anti-Freedom"? What if they already have? Do you want these decisions to be made for you?


While your previous points were correct and valid. I feel you're really reaching here. I view the scanning of currency as a whole different argument than the one you elude to here. The currency issue constitutes fair use while you're final paragraph rant concerns issues of free speech.

And in rebuttal to your final paragraph. If free speech was to be attacked why would they start with photoshop which is small potatoes compared to what you are able to say and do on the internet as a whole...

While i hate political debates as they never come to a healthy conclusion, i felt the need to reply to allow a second opinion to be heard on the subject. I do not wish to start a flame war.

adamjay
Apr 6, 2004, 09:20 PM
the Adobe CS applications can take advantage of the Powermac G5's 64-bit architecture. if you aren't running a G5, i would say it is absolutely not worth the money. i love Photoshop 7.0 and wouldnt change anything about it. (well, maybe make it free)

Horrortaxi
Apr 6, 2004, 09:41 PM
If you have to ask if you need to upgrade then you don't need to upgrade. The person who needs Photoshop CS knows who he is.

Of course I'm talking about people who actually buy the software. If you're doing the Limewire Evaluation method then get whatever version you can find. For 95% of users, Photoshop Elements is more than adequate and it's under $100.

Grokgod
Apr 6, 2004, 09:53 PM
You can't scan money in SHOP?
Who cares!

If I hadnt had read this here, I would have NEVER known!
Very few professionals use Photoshop for scanning money other than real
thieves.
Besides if you really need to scan money for some obscure reason, use another scanning program, no biggie!

This is not a free speech issue.

The new CS is great in my opinion, and worth it, especially if your on a G5!
Everyone else RELAX! Dont sweat it.

Soire
Apr 6, 2004, 10:18 PM
I can't believe this isn't a bigger issue. You're telling me the US government helped to put in new code to STOP USERS from doing something? Unless it's a code that stops people from hacking into bank accounts- there is no way we should be ok with that!

Yep- it's political- smell that? I've had enough of politics, so yea, I'll stop ranting now. But honestly, at the very least we should be aware of this and be slightly concerned. Next thing y'know we'll have the right to protect ourselves taken away... oh! Politics!

Westside guy
Apr 6, 2004, 11:24 PM
While your previous points were correct and valid. I feel you're really reaching here. I view the scanning of currency as a whole different argument than the one you elude to here. The currency issue constitutes fair use while you're final paragraph rant concerns issues of free speech.

Hey, I did put a big red flag at the top of my post. Or the text equivalent of it anyway. :D

Your comments are well-taken, and I don't intend to argue them either. The point I was trying to make (and apparently failed to at least some degree) wasn't the politics per se. It's the precedent that really bugs me. Adobe - and now, as we've heard, others as well - added in third party code which has the sole purpose of preventing a perfectly legal activity because theoretically it could be misused. My examples of what could happen were intentionally extreme - but I was trying to point out that just because you don't care if you can't scan currency doesn't mean you shouldn't care about the precedent, since if it's happened once it can easy happen again and again; perhaps with something you DO care about.

ravenvii
Apr 7, 2004, 12:15 AM
I have Photoshop CS. I think it's great.MUCH better than Elements, which I bought, then returned prior to buying the full Photoshop.

But I didn't have any Photoshop prior to it, so I wasn't "upgrading".

In fact, disregard this post :p

_pb_boi
Apr 7, 2004, 10:34 AM
I can't believe this isn't a bigger issue. You're telling me the US government helped to put in new code to STOP USERS from doing something? Unless it's a code that stops people from hacking into bank accounts- there is no way we should be ok with that!

It was a fairly big deal when it went was posted (http://slashdot.org/search.pl?query=Photoshop+CS) on Slashdot, though :)

To be honest, it doesn't bother me soooo much. I know what people are saying, that it's the audacity of those involved to force their wishes on the end-user. Well heck, that's been happening for years - you could, then, say the same about anti-piracy measures. The legitimate user didn't ask to have to register his serial code - or go through hell to get a new one if he loses it. But it happened, and it's still happening. Doubtless, it'll continue to happen for many years to come. The only difference is that it was companies, and not the government, involved. Anti-piracy measures were introduced because those involved wanted it - no end-user asked for it; no matter whether they've now come to believe it's necessary to protect the industry. That's a different matter.

Just my take.

peace.

7on
Apr 7, 2004, 07:21 PM
I also think I heard that the Yen nor the Euro can be scanned as well.

Anyhoo, I use VueScan for my scanning needs.

One question concerning whether I should upgrade...
are any of the "incositencies" within the apps fixed?

Like deselect in Photoshop 7 being Cmd+D while in Illustrator it's Cmd+Shift+A

I've been thinking that since I am a student I should upgrade. Last summer I bought the DV suite because I mess with digital video some. Other than Premiere totally sucking, it was nice. Though I'd like Indesign and GoLive too. Oh, can you print to PDF in indesign3? I hate that I have to print to .PS and Distill it to get a .PDF.

bousozoku
Apr 7, 2004, 09:29 PM
Besides the enhanced colour depth, the only reason I can think to have Photoshop CS is if you want to work with RAW image files from recent digital cameras.

Sparky's
Apr 8, 2004, 05:02 PM
I tell you some people here can really get your dander up!!
I am a graphics professional who works for a company that is an Adobe ASN member. What that means is that we pay $595 a year for membership to Adobe and are considered Partners. ASN stands for Adobe Solutions Network. The benefits are that we receive Adobe software in both PC and Mac formats that includes Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, Go Live, Image Ready, and Acrobat Pro, as well as a few other utilities and apps( before OS X it also included ATM deluxe and other type utilities). Also we are allowed 15 FREE calls per year for any technical help we need.

Adobe CS is just that "Creative Suite" meaning that all the apps work together as one via "Version Cue" I can be working on a brochure layout in InDesign while at the same time someone else is working in photoshop on a few of the pictures in my document, and someone else can me modifying an Illustrator eps file (which now has a 3-D rendering engine built in) with no interruption to my layout. and because they are all linked together updates are virtually automatic. When a final draft is ready for a customer to view, I can save different "Layers" in Acrobat Pro so the customer gets to see different versions of the job to choose from.
I think this move to CS was one of the most important and the largest moves Adobe has made in years, and I applaud it.

And what i***t said you couldn't scan currency??? I did this a few minutes ago using a Powerlook III via Scansoft SE directly into Photoshop CS, then (according to proper law) modified it to 50% of original size and wrote over it "Marc say's you can scan currency, just know the proper laws accordingly"

Westside guy
Apr 8, 2004, 05:52 PM
And what i***t said you couldn't scan currency??? I did this a few minutes ago using a Powerlook III via Scansoft SE directly into Photoshop CS, then (according to proper law) modified it to 50% of original size and wrote over it "Marc say's you can scan currency, just know the proper laws accordingly"

What i***t, you ask? Why, Adobe says it themselves:

http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/cds.html

So basically all you've demonstrated is that the software is not 100% perfect. :D

Photorun
Apr 8, 2004, 06:28 PM
I tell you some people here can really get your dander up!!

And what i***t said you couldn't scan currency??? I did this a few minutes ago using a Powerlook III via Scansoft SE directly into Photoshop CS, then (according to proper law) modified it to 50% of original size and wrote over it "Marc say's you can scan currency, just know the proper laws accordingly"

Damn Abe has a big noggin'!

Westside guy
Apr 8, 2004, 10:56 PM
Some more light reading for Sparky's:

Here's a Miami Herald story on the subject (http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/breaking_news/7674024.htm?1c)

Here's a Google Groups discussion regarding one person's attempts to test this (http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=hYoBb.25499%24o9.19199%40fed1read07) - notice they were trying it with a $20, which I believe is the most commonly counterfeited denomination of US currency

Here's a Globe and Mail story about the consortium of central banks that pushed this technology (http://www.globetechnology.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20040216.gtrcoun16/BNStory/Technology/)

Here's a Wired News story about how the technology is rather too easy to defeat (http://www.wired.com/news/infostructure/0,1377,61890,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_2)

Blue Velvet
Feb 26, 2005, 08:34 AM
And what i***t said you couldn't scan currency??? I did this a few minutes ago using a Powerlook III via Scansoft SE directly into Photoshop CS, then (according to proper law) modified it to 50% of original size and wrote over it "Marc say's you can scan currency, just know the proper laws accordingly"


Interesting reading, this thread -- I attempted to scan some money (UK 5) into Photoshop CS yesterday and got the warning. Tried scanning it from another app and opening the TIFF in Pshop, still the same warning...

I was planning on using a Pshopped & distorted version of a banknote to illustrate an article -- I'm going to put Pshop 7 back on the Scanning Mac on Monday to get this done...

virividox
Feb 26, 2005, 09:00 AM
Besides the enhanced colour depth, the only reason I can think to have Photoshop CS is if you want to work with RAW image files from recent digital cameras.

yup thats a big help sometimes especially if you dont wanna pony up MORE cash for nikons special software

devman
Feb 26, 2005, 09:02 AM
I also think I heard that the Yen nor the Euro can be scanned as well.

Anyhoo, I use VueScan for my scanning needs.

One question concerning whether I should upgrade...
are any of the "incositencies" within the apps fixed?

Like deselect in Photoshop 7 being Cmd+D while in Illustrator it's Cmd+Shift+A

That's still the same with CS.

I've been thinking that since I am a student I should upgrade. Last summer I bought the DV suite because I mess with digital video some. Other than Premiere totally sucking, it was nice. Though I'd like Indesign and GoLive too. Oh, can you print to PDF in indesign3? I hate that I have to print to .PS and Distill it to get a .PDF.

Export to PDF (with presets, e.g. screen, print, etc.) is in ID3.

dotdotdot
Feb 26, 2005, 11:13 AM
LOL

Counterfeit or w/e people can't scan money... They are afraid of that without realizing they need to spend REAL money for a product close to 1,000 dollars.

AND, CS has the thing where you need to do what Windows XP does kind of and call Adobe for a registration code if that code was already used, so that would not work for counterfeiters...

jer446
Feb 27, 2005, 01:17 PM
wow this is really wierd.. i scanned in some money and when i went into photoshop, expecting a message, i got nothing about counterfit. Whats wrong with that>>

CrackedButter
Feb 27, 2005, 04:02 PM
LOL

Counterfeit or w/e people can't scan money... They are afraid of that without realizing they need to spend REAL money for a product close to 1,000 dollars.

AND, CS has the thing where you need to do what Windows XP does kind of and call Adobe for a registration code if that code was already used, so that would not work for counterfeiters...

I don't know how to fully interpret your post but I hope this is a decent rebuttal, tell me if I am wrong. I'm under the impression that your issue is the cost of the software?

The thing is, to a professional who NEEDS this software, the cost of CS is small fry. When a photographer can buy a single camera lens for triple the price or a Graphic designer can buy a 30" monitor for just over double, the cost issue is kinda mute. More so when it is so important, I would consider it the cheapest component of any creative professionals' workflow.

The Black Rock
Feb 28, 2005, 01:45 AM
What I'm really hoping for is that with the advent of Core Image, Adobe will finally have some serious competition on it's hands. Smaller companies able to take advantage of the tools that Core Image offers, *will* make a program that does better than any version of Photoshop. I won't say that it'll will do everything better than Photoshop, it will most likely start out as one or two things. But that crack is all there needs to be for the flood to come rushing in.

Suppose for instance you need to do some different burning/dodging effects and PS just can't do it as well as you'd like; well you open up that new freeware dodge/burn program port the image into there, do the work you've always wanted to do, and bam, it's done.

Third party stuff is out there already that does better jobs than PS, take Grain Surgery or Noise Ninja for example. Imagine what could be done with Core Image using just about any other tool. I'm looking forward to instantaneous color/hue/contrast adjustments, using that nice GPU I'm getting.

I don't want to bash Photoshop and say something stupid like "it's terrible at everything", because that would be a lie. Photoshop is an incredible tool, the best out there in fact, and I've been using it for years. I just think that they need competition. They're too expensive (perhaps prohibitively expensive in some cases), and sometimes it feels like they're just being lazy.

Bring on Core Image!

jackieonasses
Feb 28, 2005, 02:06 AM
wow this is really wierd.. i scanned in some money and when i went into photoshop, expecting a message, i got nothing about counterfit. Whats wrong with that>>Perhaps you had a poor scanner, so when you scanned it, it couldn't recognize the scanned note.

kyle

iGary
Feb 28, 2005, 06:19 AM
Happy with my copy, although I use it strictly for digital image editing (photography).

Eastend
Feb 28, 2005, 06:32 AM
Oh, this is an educational thread, I did not know you could not scan the money. I understand why they did it, over here in Japan every other day some kid on a scanner is making Yen. Looks like people will have to wait for the next big update and see if a Pro version comes out, wonder if they will eventually take your fingerprints to buy PhotoShop?

Brian

iGary
Feb 28, 2005, 07:43 AM
Oh, this is an educational thread, I did not know you could not scan the money. I understand why they did it, over here in Japan every other day some kid on a scanner is making Yen. Looks like people will have to wait for the next big update and see if a Pro version comes out, wonder if they will eventually take your fingerprints to buy PhotoShop?

Brian

Yeah, the people we share our office with next door actually print t-shirts for the Bureau of Printing and engraving and had to get the money images from them after trying to scan it in CS.

jayscheuerle
Feb 28, 2005, 09:12 AM
CS is worth it for the shadow/highlight adjustment tool alone as far as I'm concerned. YES, it does nothing that can't be done with other tools, but it makes it so much easier and so much faster... No other reasons though.

Mord
Feb 28, 2005, 02:16 PM
i made this thread an age ago, well i'm still useing 7 and i'm scared cs will be dead slow on my 600MHz ibook so i think i'll stick to it ;)