No More Hulu on Boxee

[iOrlando]

On Friday....Hulu will be removed from Boxee....sad..but true...maybe the start of other services leaving boxee?

[srl7741]

Where did you read this at? Link.
What was the reason for removing it?

.

[claimed4all]

Thats about the only reason I use Boxee

[betaboy78]

Where did you read this at? Link.
What was the reason for removing it?

.

http://blog.hulu.com/

[firstapple]

Where did you read this at? Link.
What was the reason for removing it?

.


http://i.gizmodo.com/5156150/boxee-loses-hulu-later-this-week

http://www.tuaw.com/2009/02/18/boxee-forced-to-remove-hulu/

http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/18/hulu-asks-boxee-to-pull-content-it-complies/

Pretty much all over the place

[macrazee]

Disappointing, but not surprising. These content DINOSAURS (not providers) really should just quit. After all, they don't want anyone to actually SEE the crap they spew.

For the record, I dislike Boxee. I find it slow and clunky and the AppleTV version, frankly, is abysmal. (Though it runs plenty slow on a high-end iMac too.)

However I do find it amazing, particularly in these economic times, that these DINOSAURS still can't figure out that MORE folks WATCHING their junk equals more cash for them. After all, Boxee streamed the Hulu feed -- commercials and all. More views, more dollars. I don't see how they can be so stupid...

[CTYankee]

You can now use Front Row to watch Hulu...I forgot what the service is called, but a search around should find it.

[plumbingandtech]

Disappointing, but not surprising. These content DINOSAURS (not providers) really should just quit.

Yes, because someone else would come in a produce a Lost or a 24 or Fringe and start producing quality of this scope....

:rolleyes:

Sure. Maybe we can open source a Lost and let the free as in beer and speech do it. :rolleyes:

Moronic things like Dancing with the Stars and, 12 year humor like South park (since the animation on that is such dog poop it seems ripe for flash :D:D) might be something the Internets could produce, that's for sure.




Let's hope they reverse their decision after this uproar. I have a feeling they did not anticipate the backlash and what will happen is that Boxee (and their cotnent partners) will get Hulu shares for their company.

making everyone as happy as clams...

[BoulderBum]

I think there are two possibilities here.

1. Networks see more profit in their traditional modes of distribution or...
2. ... Apple has something up their sleeves.

Since Hulu lives while Boxee integration died, I can't help but wonder if part of the reason is Apple considering coming out with a subscription TV service of their own, direct Hulu integration, or a Hulu app for an Apple TV app store.

At least I hope that's the case.

[LinMac]

I think there are two possibilities here.

1. Networks see more profit in their traditional modes of distribution or...
2. ... Apple has something up their sleeves.

Since Hulu lives while Boxee integration died, I can't help but wonder if part of the reason is Apple considering coming out with a subscription TV service of their own, direct Hulu integration, or a Hulu app for an Apple TV app store.

At least I hope that's the case.

I think this is a simple case of content being used in an unexpected way and that has the content providers running scared. Piracy exists despite what they have done to "legal" alternatives like Boxee, but remember that content providers still have contracts with cable/satellite TV to worry about too.

People will watch what they want to watch no matter the source they get their media from. Some of us are sick of putting up with the asinine restrictions the content providers put on media (24 hour rentals for $4.99/7 days to start watching etc etc).

I'll stick to Netflix for now as they're my cheapest option. I will consider content from Apple when the prices come down by 50 - 60%.

[rikers_mailbox]

This is frustrating. I just got my AppleTV, patchsticked it, and have been enjoying Boxee/Hulu for no more than a week.

What is the real problem here? Hulu is an internet sight. AppleTV (or anything running Boxee) is a computer. And these are the foundations of the digital age, the way forward. Hulu should applaud Boxee for making their content available to *more* viewers, not scolding them and taking away their hard work.

The movie and TV industry is waiting to be turned on it's head just like what happened to music ~6 years ago

[azdunerat]

The is a pluggin that will allow you to use hulu from front row. Not all is lost, but boxee with hulu was a big plus. I see it hurting boxee more than hulu

[pdpfilms]

PLEASE!!!! DIRECT ALL OF YOUR FRUSTRATION TO HULU.

feedback@hulu.com

(Note: Some are saying that Hulu is not at fault here, that it's the content providers. While it is the fault of the providers (NBC, Fox, etc.) these providers are the ones funding and maintaining Hulu. So in the end, it's really only the handful of techs running Hulu that are free of fault.)

[JackSYi]

This sucks. But to be honest, streaming Hulu was always choppy for me. I'm in San Francisco, CA and have Comcast (that might explain it).

[Tilpots]

Sad. I'm no fan of the AppleTV, but I think this stinks. Content providers think they got us by the balls. Shame on you Hulu. :mad:

If your a Neilsen viewer, this March, tell 'em you only watched PBS, 24/7. Send the message to these content providers that without viewers, they won't make a dime.

[mastershakess]

Damn! Hulu is the only thing that made the ATV worth it :mad:

[spacepower7]

Back to DVR and PirateBay, where I can skip the commercials and get HD 720p versions. Stupid media companies, cutting out users, and not innovating at all. So are they all going to come out with movie stores? like everyone copying iTunes and the App store? I have never gone to the HULU website outside of Boxee and don't plan on it.

[The Phazer]

Back to DVR and PirateBay, where I can skip the commercials and get HD 720p versions. Stupid media companies, cutting out users, and not innovating at all. So are they all going to come out with movie stores? like everyone copying iTunes and the App store? I have never gone to the HULU website outside of Boxee and don't plan on it.

It is worth remembering that sometimes content providers do "get it", but they just don't have the rights to offer (and yes, steaming to different devices can be different rights depending on the original contract). I've been dealing with a US studio over licencing rights for a long running show there for online distribution. They can't do it, because they didn't take any online transmission rights from the writers, actors, directors or musicians involved in the first place. This show has been running for nearly a decade now, and just the adminstration work from going back and contacting all of those (thousands of) people and obtaining formal legal permission (assuming they don't want any more money, which they will) will cost more than I'll pay the studio in revenue in a hundred years.

It's unfortunate, but it doesn't make any sense for a studio to lose money on this - heck, even people stealing the show on Bittorrent doesn't *cost* money, it just doesn't make any. They'd be negligent to shareholders to deliberately lose cash.

Phazer

[iOrlando]

when i first started to use boxee..i said to myself...hmm this is a little too good to be true...being able to watch tv shows and such through boxee via hulu. Now granted, there are commercials inserted within the shows but i am guessing the amount of money the tv companies get from that is alot less than other venues. Also if i was nbc, I would want people to watch heroes or any other show (for free or advertisements) via nbc.com, that way i can also get some advertising money from more traffic on that site. or maybe hulu can grant a license for third parties like boxee (where will boxee get the money though)

Granted, the quality of hulu on boxee wasnt perfect...but where else could you watch Sliders or Alf on full screen TV and not on a little computer.

at least boxee still has revision3. i need my diggnation.

[johnnj]

It's my belief that when content producers/distributors/purveyers make it difficult for the end user to obtain high quality digital media (not higly compressed, low bitrate, low rez web drek) at an affordable price, they give up their right to complain when the end user obtains their media through alternative means.

There's obviously a demand, so it's up to the business to figure out a way to meet it. It's their job to sell media. It's our job to buy it. If they don't do their job, then we can't do ours.

Like Phazer said, sometimes the roadblocks are out of the control of the purveyers. However, these things are reasons, not excuses. If the system doesn't work, then the system needs to be changed.

An unauthorized download might not represent a loss, but neither does it represent a gain. I'm sure that McDonalds would prefer to sell me a hamburger than have me make one at home.

John

[aidricksdad]

hulu on boxee sucks anyway......the only reason i use boxee is to stream my avi's and i got a boxee remote from cydia that works great....if i want to watch lost or something on tv i just dvr it...

[mastershakess]

hulu on boxee sucks anyway......the only reason i use boxee is to stream my avi's and i got a boxee remote from cydia that works great....if i want to watch lost or something on tv i just dvr it...

speak for yourself, worked fine for me! I loved watching old TV shows on boxee/hulu on my TV

[dmm219]

So, we'll be losing NBC and FOX, keeping CBS and gaining ABC. This just means I have to watch Family Guy on sunday nights, instead of when I want to via Clear QAM. The thing I liked hulu for was being able to watch old shows.

The studio licensing model is a huge, HUGE mess. Its far worse than the music licensing model. I bet a larger portion, of even the STUDIOS actually WANT hulu on boxee. They simply can't because of the spaghetti ball that is current licensing and law. It will take take for the Studios to start using newer contract models to filter through the system.

Hulu will most likely be back at some point, but it could be a while...

...In the meantime, I hate to say it, but why care? 24? Lost? Sorry folks, these shows are trash. There is virtually NO good shows on TV right now. BSG is probably the only one (and even that went way downhill this season).

Maybe if everyone screams loud enough, the studios will relent ala Facebook.

I have a bad feeling however, unless Boxee can get netflix streaming REALLY well on the ATV, this will pretty much be a death sentence for Boxee...too bad...they are a great group of guys...

[mastershakess]

So, we'll be losing NBC and FOX, keeping CBS and gaining ABC. This just means I have to watch Family Guy on sunday nights, instead of when I want to via Clear QAM. The thing I liked hulu for was being able to watch old shows.

The studio licensing model is a huge, HUGE mess. Its far worse than the music licensing model. I bet a larger portion, of even the STUDIOS actually WANT hulu on boxee. They simply can't because of the spaghetti ball that is current licensing and law. It will take take for the Studios to start using newer contract models to filter through the system.

Hulu will most likely be back at some point, but it could be a while...

...In the meantime, I hate to say it, but why care? 24? Lost? Sorry folks, these shows are trash. There is virtually NO good shows on TV right now. BSG is probably the only one (and even that went way downhill this season).

Maybe if everyone screams loud enough, the studios will relent ala Facebook.

I have a bad feeling however, unless Boxee can get netflix streaming REALLY well on the ATV, this will pretty much be a death sentence for Boxee...too bad...they are a great group of guys...

And I guess your taste in TV shows is all that is important right? Go away!

[d21mike]

...In the meantime, I hate to say it, but why care? 24? Lost?

I do.... Look to the left under my ID. :)

[sosnpk]

Has anyone been able to find info on enabling Hulu in Frontrow, I did a search and all I came up with was using CouchSurfer.

[mastershakess]

Has anyone been able to find info on enabling Hulu in Frontrow, I did a search and all I came up with was using CouchSurfer.

use Understudy
http://code.google.com/p/understudy/

[sosnpk]

Yeah i just tried a google search and found it, thought the previous posters meant searching on macrumors.

Understudy looks like it would be perfect however i'm assuming its not ported to apple tv yet.

[jpfisher]

I *just* bought an Apple TV this weekend (the Xbox360 I had been using for media streaming gave me a Red Ring of Death -- needs to be sent off to Micro$oft for repair.. thankfully covered under warranty).... and I've been really enjoying Boxee & its Hulu support so far... guess I've just got bad timing.

Does CouchSurfer work on the Apple TV for Hulu? I'm assuming it would, from what I've read about it.... anyone have any experience? If this works, it's an inconvenience, but I guess better than nothing.

[pdjudd]

PLEASE!!!! DIRECT ALL OF YOUR FRUSTRATION TO HULU.

feedback@hulu.com

(Note: Some are saying that Hulu is not at fault here, that it's the content providers. While it is the fault of the providers (NBC, Fox, etc.) these providers are the ones funding and maintaining Hulu. So in the end, it's really only the handful of techs running Hulu that are free of fault.)

We also have to remember that there really wasn't any kind of official partnership between Boxee and Hulu, Hulo no doubt was aware of Boxee, they just never did anything about it since that it is still an early beta and all. It was a very much an unofficial thing that Boxee was able to tie into its product. This was bound to happen sooner or later simply due to the fact that Hulu has to control its distribution and that includes other services like Boxee.

[Mike Teezie]

Absurd.

I was watching more TV than ever, all because of Hulu on Boxee. I watched an episode of House yesterday while I was eating lunch - with ads. I've never really watched the show before, and it was nice to see what all the fuss was about. Now I won't have that option. I'm never, never, never, never going to watch TV content on either of my computers.

I wonder what percentage of Boxee users will be turning to alternative methods of getting the content they want?

[aidricksdad]

[QUOTE=mastershakess;7133458]speak for yourself, worked fine for me! I loved watching old TV shows on boxee/hulu on my TV[/QUO


i thought i was speaking for myself.....hulu is choppy and grainy on my 50" plasma...i would rather watch shows in HD from my dvr....its good for some old shows but "speaking for myself" the shows it has dont really interest me

[dmm219]

Cancelled my Hulu account today, and made sure I let them know why...

...but to be honest, I barely used it. Since I get NBC and FOX in HD for free via Clear Qam...it doesnt really effect me..

[nutmac]

speak for yourself, worked fine for me! I loved watching old TV shows on boxee/hulu on my TV
Maybe he meant how hulu on boxee is limited to low quality 360p stream (boxee claims Apple TV is too underpowered to stream 480p).

[wPod]

well, i really hope the reason hulu ditched boxxee is because Apple will come out with an official hulu app for the :apple:TV. I actually ditched my cable subscription when I got hulu working on my :apple:TV. So now, i have to wait for Apple to release a full app for the :apple:TV or just ditch my :apple:TV and plug my mac mini directly into the tv and realize that the :apple:TV is dead.

[iSaygoodbye]

PLEASE!!!! DIRECT ALL OF YOUR FRUSTRATION TO HULU.

feedback@hulu.com

(Note: Some are saying that Hulu is not at fault here, that it's the content providers. While it is the fault of the providers (NBC, Fox, etc.) these providers are the ones funding and maintaining Hulu. So in the end, it's really only the handful of techs running Hulu that are free of fault.)

exactly

[The Phazer]

Like Phazer said, sometimes the roadblocks are out of the control of the purveyers. However, these things are reasons, not excuses. If the system doesn't work, then the system needs to be changed.

Easy to say, but one of the reasons for the Writers strike was the studios attempts to change to the system to stop things like this - but public support was overwhelmingly with the writers maintaining (and increasing the costs of) the status quo.

Phazer

[cubedweller]

At least uTorrent was released for Mac ;) But in all seriousness, most of us will just find another distribution source for this content -- most likely preventing any revenue stream for reaching the "content providers."

[hitekalex]

most of us will just find another distribution source for this content

Indeed. I don't know how anybody could stomach watching Boxee/Hulu content in 360p in the first place. It may look OK if you're used to analog TV on 17" CRT tube, but it looks like garbage on my 50" LCD.

DVR the networks shows off the air in HD (EyeTV is great) and use Mininova for the rest!

[mullman]

Absurd.

I was watching more TV than ever, all because of Hulu on Boxee.
I'm never, never, never, never going to watch TV content on either of my computers.

+1

I was loving watching the old shows (Hitchcock) and my kids were enjoying The Addams Family.
Apple TV+Boxee+Hulu just made it so easy.
Sure the quality was not great on my 46" Sharp, but it was good enough considering the price and convenience.

Oh well.

EDIT, I wonder if Boxee had anything to do with the increase in TV sales?

http://www.pcworld.com/article/158874/apple_tv_sales_triple.html

[mastershakess]

+1

I was loving watching the old shows (Hitchcock) and my kids were enjoying The Addams Family.
Apple TV+Boxee+Hulu just made it so easy.
Sure the quality was not great on my 46" Sharp, but it was good enough considering the price and convenience.

Oh well.

EDIT, I wonder if Boxee had anything to do with the increase in TV sales?

http://www.pcworld.com/article/158874/apple_tv_sales_triple.html

Of course Boxee does! Boxee is the only reason I bought one and I bet I'm not alone.

[mullman]

Of course Boxee does! Boxee is the only reason I bought one and I bet I'm not alone.

Could Apple ultimately be behind the removal?

[rikers_mailbox]

Could Apple ultimately be behind the removal?

This doesn't make sense when Apple could just break the exploit that allows owners to install Boxee on AppleTV. Why affect ALL Boxee users?

More likely, Hulu will start developing their own app/plugin model for hardware like the Roku box. Unfortunately, Apple is stubborn in their desire for people to download content through iTunes, so we will likely never see Hulu on AppleTV. I hope I'm wrong.

Wishful thinking... AppleTV may adopt an app-store model like the iPhone to allow 3rd-party developers to get content on the AppleTV. If Hulu app were made available, Apple would get a cut of the sale. I really think this is about new media revenue streams for the big studios. They are panicking b/c traditional broadcast and advertising revenue is falling (fewer people are subscribing to cable) and they need new methods of PAID content delivery to fill the gap. Hulu, offered for free and with much less advertising, does not make up for it. The biz need a different model. I think they should listen to what Jobso has to say. He figured out Music 6 years ago and the music studios are finally starting to come around.

[Sky Blue]

couple of links floating about to hack Hulu back into Boxee:

http://lifehacker.com/5157524/bring-hulu-back-to-boxee-and-xbmc

not sure if it works.

[johnnj]

Of course Boxee does! Boxee is the only reason I bought one and I bet I'm not alone.

Actually, I bought mine for the sole purpose of playing my iTunes library on my main entertainment center with a slick interface.

Between 2 Popcorn Hours, a Roku, FiOS TV and a Netflix subscription, I have little use for the overpriced iTunes store TV shows/movies and the underpowered hardware of the ATV. The minute someone tells me that it can play a 1080p MKV or an m2ts stream is the minute I'll be interested in the ATV as a video playback device.

Besides, what was the big deal about Hulu, anyway? From what I've seen the quality was pretty unimpressive.

John

[gcmexico]

couple of links floating about to hack Hulu back into Boxee:

http://lifehacker.com/5157524/bring-hulu-back-to-boxee-and-xbmc

not sure if it works.

*
follow the link if you want hulu back on boxee, works like a charm!! YES!!!:D

[dueweke1697]

*
follow the link if you want hulu back on boxee, works like a charm!! YES!!!:D

just tried it and i got "Unable to retrieve data"

could the hack already be blocked? i hope not

[jchampl]

just tried it and i got "Unable to retrieve data"

could the hack already be blocked? i hope not

yup, it has been disabled, another "true" hack should be out soon, not dirty like this one was....no idea on timeline

[OllyW]

well, i really hope the reason hulu ditched boxxee is because Apple will come out with an official hulu app for the :apple:TV.

It's highly unlikely this is the reason it was pulled.

I actually ditched my cable subscription when I got hulu working on my :apple:TV.

It's highly likely this is the reason it was pulled. ;)

[dmm219]

It's highly unlikely this is the reason it was pulled.



It's highly likely this is the reason it was pulled. ;)

i agree. however, since when do the studios have any say over what device, a private citizen owns, watches fully legal video on?

Fact is, if this were to go to court, this would be an easy win for boxee/hulu. The studios would, ofcourse, quickly shut hulu down in that case...

I will never return to cable. Their crappy anti-consumer BS has lost me as a customer forever. I'll go back to reading papers before i'll pay for cable again. Fact is, no one "really" needs what cable has to offer. And nothing cable has to offer is of any kind of quality anyways...

[JonHimself]

i agree. however, since when do the studios have any say over what device, a private citizen owns, watches fully legal video on?

Fact is, if this were to go to court, this would be an easy win for boxee/hulu. The studios would, ofcourse, quickly shut hulu down in that case...

I will never return to cable. Their crappy anti-consumer BS has lost me as a customer forever. I'll go back to reading papers before i'll pay for cable again. Fact is, no one "really" needs what cable has to offer. And nothing cable has to offer is of any kind of quality anyways...

I'm not a legal expert but I think you're way off. The studios would have control over what device the content is watched on because they own the content. I would think that they could then control where is displayed... if they didn't like it being on AppleTV via Hulu (likely because then people wouldn't be buying from iTunes) then they could tell Hulu to prevent that from working or they'll pull their content all together.

[The Phazer]

i agree. however, since when do the studios have any say over what device, a private citizen owns, watches fully legal video on?

Fully legal video depends on watching it on an authorised device.

Fact is, if this were to go to court, this would be an easy win for boxee/hulu. The studios would, ofcourse, quickly shut hulu down in that case...

Sorry, but you are simply wrong here. As pointed out above, in many cases the studios don't even have these rights to offer themselves.

Phazer

[Tilpots]

I'm not a legal expert but I think you're way off. The studios would have control over what device the content is watched on because they own the content. I would think that they could then control where is displayed... if they didn't like it being on AppleTV via Hulu (likely because then people wouldn't be buying from iTunes) then they could tell Hulu to prevent that from working or they'll pull their content all together.

The studios have control over their content, not how you view it. They can release, say a dvd, but they can't dictate what type of DVD player you watch it on. On the internet side, they can release a digital copy and place DRM restrictions on it, but that is more the distributor's (eg. Apple's) enforcement than theirs.

Sorry, but you are simply wrong here. As pointed out above, in many cases the studios don't even have these rights to offer themselves.

Phazer

The studios absolutely own the rights, otherwise they couldn't put it on their own websites or offer it to websites like Hulu.

[x86isslow]

The studios absolutely own the rights, otherwise they couldn't put it on their own websites or offer it to websites like Hulu.

ahaha- and 50 years ago Banks actually owned the mortgages.

maybe studios own whatever analogue there is to "mortgage-backed securities" of their content, but the real deal's long been sold off.

[The Phazer]

The studios have control over their content, not how you view it. They can release, say a dvd, but they can't dictate what type of DVD player you watch it on.

They could do, if they wanted to. They would have to be careful how it was advertised, but they can dictate anything they like and it's your decision to accept that deal or not.

On the internet side, they can release a digital copy and place DRM restrictions on it, but that is more the distributor's (eg. Apple's) enforcement than theirs.

And they can decide what device to deliver it to - just as many companies block distribution to mobile platforms.

Look at the BBC - they stream Heroes to PCs, but it's blocked on the iPhone version of iPlayer, because they don't have the rights.

The studios absolutely own the rights, otherwise they couldn't put it on their own websites or offer it to websites like Hulu.

I can tell you now that they don't.

The types of rights you can own are many and varied. Unless the studios specifically took a right from the performers to send content to set top boxes as opposed to internet browsers, they don't have them. I explained all of this in my first post in this thread.

This is not supposition on my part.

Phazer

[dmm219]

I'm not a legal expert on these matters, so I won't contest the arguments here as I don't know the facts. I however, seriously doubt any of the other posters are legal experts on this either (and none have offered evidence to support their claims)

That being said, if studio's believe (either legally or illegally) that they have the right, to tell me how I can watch a product that I have fully purchased, they can go to hell. They will not get any more money out of me. As I stated earlier, their "product" tends to suck anyways...

[Tilpots]

They could do, if they wanted to. They would have to be careful how it was advertised, but they can dictate anything they like and it's your decision to accept that deal or not.

Not really. Consumers have rights here in the US, not sure about the UK though. If I buy a car, Ford can't tell me to only drive it on Tuesdays.:rolleyes:

And they can decide what device to deliver it to - just as many companies block distribution to mobile platforms.

Look at the BBC - they stream Heroes to PCs, but it's blocked on the iPhone version of iPlayer, because they don't have the rights.


Maybe the BBC doesn't hold the international rights, but NBC sure does.

I can tell you now that they don't.

The types of rights you can own are many and varied. Unless the studios specifically took a right from the performers to send content to set top boxes as opposed to internet browsers, they don't have them. I explained all of this in my first post in this thread.

This is not supposition on my part.

Phazer

For an older show made before the advent of internet distribution, you might be right. These days, there's no studio who doesn't buy these rights from the outset. Unlike you and your example, the studios know what they're doing and don't "forget" or "not know" to dot their i's and cross their t's.

[The Phazer]

I'm not a legal expert on these matters, so I won't contest the arguments here as I don't know the facts. I however, seriously doubt any of the other posters are legal experts on this either (and none have offered evidence to support their claims)

I am. This is what I do for a living. I'm a broadcast rights consultant.

Not really. Consumers have rights here in the US, not sure about the UK though. If I buy a car, Ford can't tell me to only drive it on Tuesdays.

Ford would be absolutely within their legal rights in the US to tell you to only drive a car on Tuesdays. They don't own the calendar, so it couldn't be considered to be anti-competitive. As long as they were upfront about the restriction at the time of purchase and they had you sign a contract binding you to that condition that you clearly understood at the time of handing over the cash, then they would be completely in the clear to do so. A court might take issue with the level of penalty in a contract for being in breach of it, but not that a breach ocourred.

Likewise, the content providers involved here are many and varied. They don't own the internet browsers, so they are not being anti-competitive. Until you watch their advertising in the programme you haven't given them any financial consideration that might bind them in a contract, and they inform you that you can't watch the programme before that occurs. They are completely free to decide how and if to deliver media to you based on what you want to play it on. You as a consumer have the choice to buy your content from any of the millions of other legal providers if you don't like the terms.

That simple.

Maybe the BBC doesn't hold the international rights, but NBC sure does.
Indeed they do, because Heroes is sold to Apple for the iTunes store in the UK. But it is a good demonstration of how legally it is perfectly acceptable to split rights by the device intended for reception and sell them separately for different rates to different people. NBC sell the BBC rights to deliver to a set top box, but not to mobiles (or indeed the Wii, probably because it's a set top box…).

For an older show made before the advent of internet distribution, you might be right.

Which is the majority of shows on Hulu. And there's no guarantee the various content providers have any reliable database of where they have this right and where they don't, so they can't just remove the shows where they have no rights and have to pull everything.

And again, even when they do have the right, the residuals due to the actors etc concerned might not be the same in many cases. Video on demand generally attracts a different residual to internet distribution (as it's *generally* pay per view rather than advertising funded and has lower overheads once the network is built). Given many cable networks distribute VOD via IP, what VOD is will likely be defined in the contracts with the actors, writers etc by the reception device.

Phazer

[Tilpots]

I am. This is what I do for a living. I'm a broadcast rights consultant.

Then you should know better...

Ford would be absolutely within their legal rights in the US to tell you to only drive a car on Tuesdays. They don't own the calendar, so it couldn't be considered to be anti-competitive. As long as they were upfront about the restriction at the time of purchase and they had you sign a contract binding you to that condition that you clearly understood at the time of handing over the cash, then they would be completely in the clear to do so. A court might take issue with the level of penalty in a contract for being in breach of it, but not that a breach ocourred.

We're talking about viewers rights, not companies distribution rights. So, when was the last time you signed a contract to watch TV or a DVD?

Likewise, the content providers involved here are many and varied. They don't own the internet browsers, so they are not being anti-competitive. Until you watch their advertising in the programme you haven't given them any financial consideration that might bind them in a contract, and they inform you that you can't watch the programme before that occurs. They are completely free to decide how and if to deliver media to you based on what you want to play it on. You as a consumer have the choice to buy your content from any of the millions of other legal providers if you don't like the terms.

That simple.

You're talking in circles. Maybe you really are a lawyer.:o

Indeed they do, because Heroes is sold to Apple for the iTunes store in the UK. But it is a good demonstration of how legally it is perfectly acceptable to split rights by the device intended for reception and sell them separately for different rates to different people. NBC sell the BBC rights to deliver to a set top box, but not to mobiles (or indeed the Wii, probably because it's a set top box…).

Again, distribution rights. This has nothing to do with the viewer. For example, you DVR a show on your TV, then burn it to DVD and encode with handbrake to watch on any other device, you have broken no laws (at least here in the US). You can watch it wherever you wish, whenever you wish on whatever you wish. Even Tuesdays. ;)



Which is the majority of shows on Hulu. And there's no guarantee the various content providers have any reliable database of where they have this right and where they don't, so they can't just remove the shows where they have no rights and have to pull everything.

And again, even when they do have the right, the residuals due to the actors etc concerned might not be the same in many cases. Video on demand generally attracts a different residual to internet distribution (as it's *generally* pay per view rather than advertising funded and has lower overheads once the network is built). Given many cable networks distribute VOD via IP, what VOD is will likely be defined in the contracts with the actors, writers etc by the reception device.

Phazer

So how are stations like CBS not being sued for showing shows like MacGuyver, The Love Boat, and the like?

[The Phazer]

We're talking about viewers rights, not companies distribution rights. So, when was the last time you signed a contract to watch TV or a DVD?

I'd be required to sign a contract to watch most television, since I'd be signing a contract to pay for it. Likewise, DVD's come with an attached licence.

And more crucially, you sign a contract to use Hulu - http://www.hulu.com/terms

By visiting the Hulu Site (whether or not you are a registered member) or using any of the Hulu Services on any of the Sites, you are accepting this Terms of Use.

See?

You're talking in circles. Maybe you really are a lawyer.:o

I would suggest you try actually reading what I've written.

Again, distribution rights. This has nothing to do with the viewer.

Of course it does. The show is distributed to the viewer. Thus it is a distribution right.

For example, you DVR a show on your TV, then burn it to DVD and encode with handbrake to watch on any other device, you have broken no laws (at least here in the US). You can watch it wherever you wish, whenever you wish on whatever you wish. Even Tuesdays. ;)

Due to the specific exemption for this. But it is very specific. One would also note that it doesn't apply to most countries in the world (in the UK for instance, both the burning of the DVD and the encode with handbreak would be illegal. And keeping it for any significant length of time and watching it multiple times would also be illegal).

So how are stations like CBS not being sued for showing shows like MacGuyver, The Love Boat, and the like?

Because they have the specific distribution rights in those specific instances, or because they've really cocked up.

Both of which are entirely possible.

Phazer

[dmm219]

If this thread has made anything clear, its that, along with the Financial Industry and the Music Industry, the Business models used by all party's involved here are severely flawed, and will die, bringing down most of the large studios, guilds, distribution companies...etc. It might take another 10-20 years, but it is inevitable.

In time, more people will realize how rigged and anti-consumer the models and laws really are, and will vote with their wallets. I don't expect them to learn (just look at Detroit), that's why these companies don't get a dime from me and never will.

[Tilpots]

Because they have the specific distribution rights in those specific instances, or because they've really cocked up.

Both of which are entirely possible.

Phazer

http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2009/02/27/cbs-brings-tv-com-content-to-iphone/

:rolleyes:

[shotts56]

For example, you DVR a show on your TV, then burn it to DVD and encode with handbrake to watch on any other device, you have broken no laws (at least here in the US). You can watch it wherever you wish, whenever you wish on whatever you wish.

Completely illegal here in the UK, without a shadow of a doubt.

[Tilpots]

Completely illegal here in the UK, without a shadow of a doubt.

Hmmm. This is straight from Tivo's website talking about what you can do with Nero LiquidTV. Is this not available in the UK?

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