'Marble' Interface to be Revealed in Next Snow Leopard Seed? [Archive]

MacRumors

Mar 25, 2009, 08:56 PM

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/03/25/marble-interface-to-be-revealed-in-next-snow-leopard-seed/)

AppleInsider claims (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/03/25/apple_close_to_unveiling_guarded_snow_leopard_ui_overhaul.html) that Apple will be revealing a major user interface overhaul in the next developer build of Snow Leopard.

All developer seeds to date have carried the same general user interface elements from the current version of Mac OS X Leopard. In January (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/01/13/snow-leopard-to-bring-unifying-marble-user-interface/) we reported that Apple was working on a unified user interface codenamed "Marble":Based on our sources, however, Apple will apparently use Snow Leopard's release to tweak the overall user interface for Mac OS X and unify it across applications. Exact details of the theme changes have not been made public, as the current developer seeds for Snow Leopard still retain Apple's existing Aqua theme. The new theme will likely involve tweaks to the existing design and perhaps a "flattening" of Aqua in-line with Apple's iTunes and iPhoto interface elements.According to sources "familiar with the matter", Apple could introduce these dramatic changes in the next version of Snow Leopard and have a final preview at WWDC 2009. Apple is then expected to release Snow Leopard to customers within two months of WWDC. The exact dates for WWDC, however, have not yet been publicly announced.

Article Link: 'Marble' Interface to be Revealed in Next Snow Leopard Seed? (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/03/25/marble-interface-to-be-revealed-in-next-snow-leopard-seed/)

kockgunner

Mar 25, 2009, 09:01 PM

Yvan256

Mar 25, 2009, 09:02 PM

The iTunes look applied to the whole OS? Bring it on!

Bonte

Mar 25, 2009, 09:05 PM

Aqua is dead already, 10.4 i work with only has brushed metal and grey. The reintroduction of aqua in 10.5 was cool looking but not better, glad Apple will change it back.

Pika

Mar 25, 2009, 09:05 PM

Bring the iPhone's Safari scroll bar. :cool:

thebrain74

Mar 25, 2009, 09:10 PM

This makes a lot of sense, with Apple's new displays re: the black borders. Apple loves design continuity. Aqua fit in well with the colored plastics and then the brushed metal. Now that we have a black look around the screen, a darker UI will make it blend more seamlessly into the border, further enhancing the border's original objective of making the screen seem larger. (the MBA is an anomaly).

P.S. isn't black and sliver (albeit for apple's defense, anodized aluminum) the color scheme that has been used for consumer electronics for decades. Sure it may be a 'new look' for apple, but doesn't it just bring it in line with every other consumer electronics company. I fear that as time goes on and Apple physically switched from white and clear or aluminum, it will also be a metaphorical switch to products that are just, well, more like everything else.

canucksfan88

Mar 25, 2009, 09:10 PM

sweet.
i like the look =)

Balin64

Mar 25, 2009, 09:11 PM

ppc_michael

Mar 25, 2009, 09:11 PM

This makes sense, considering they're gradually trying to move to an all-vector GUI.

pilotgi

Mar 25, 2009, 09:15 PM

I've got Marble on my Linux desktop. It's a desktop globe.

11800506

Mar 25, 2009, 09:17 PM

Sounds like it'll be pretty nice! I just hope they take the time in this UI update which is sounds like they are to get rid of any inconsistencies that the UI still has left over from the other older OS's.

kabunaru

Mar 25, 2009, 09:19 PM

So, will Mac OS X 100% look like iTunes 8's UI now?

brad.c

Mar 25, 2009, 09:27 PM

Techguy172

Mar 25, 2009, 09:32 PM

I think they should do something because it's looking confused right now like apple can't decide between Aqua and this new look.

DoFoT9

Mar 25, 2009, 09:32 PM

sweet!! i think :-S

wakka092

Mar 25, 2009, 09:39 PM

With every release, starting at 10.4, Apple's tweaked "the overall user interface for Mac OS X and unify it across applications." They got it right with Leopard, but I find it funny this has came up.. again.

BornAgainMac

Mar 25, 2009, 09:39 PM

So August is a likely shipping date?

iPhoneJB

Mar 25, 2009, 09:40 PM

I came across these images when helping someone with iPhone tethering:

http://dznr.org/rzyf
http://dznr.org/vlfa

I pretty sure it is the new Snow Leopard "Marble" user interface.

wetrix

Mar 25, 2009, 09:56 PM

Bring the iPhone's Safari scroll bar. :cool:

Would be wonderful if you could choose to have the scroll bars hide when not in use.

It's funny how Apple seems to like putting interface elements in to new programs inconsistently (such as into iTunes and iPhoto but not elsewhere). Microsoft actually do a better job at rolling out new UI features in one go.

Menge

Mar 25, 2009, 09:56 PM

Nah... That looks like one of the Mobile Me mods that can be found around :)

Sky Blue

Mar 25, 2009, 09:57 PM

I pretty sure it is the new Snow Leopard "Marble" user interface.

Nice shop there :rolleyes:

richard.mac

Mar 25, 2009, 09:59 PM

I came across these images when helping someone with iPhone tethering:

…

I pretty sure it is the new Snow Leopard "Marble" user interface.

thats the Mobile Me theme you can get on MacThemes.net

RonCarr

Mar 25, 2009, 10:05 PM

Bring the iPhone's Safari scroll bar. :cool:

Now this would be awesome! I would love to see the iPhone scroll bars throughout the entire OS. One thing that has bothered me is the differences with iLife and the rest of the OS. It seems that they do not work together on the interfaces and just change things whenever they want to.

I recently found a program (iLeopard) that takes all of the aqua details out Leopard. I like the look a lot better than all of the blue from Tiger. The marble interface will be a welcomed feature in my opinion!

Stridder44

Mar 25, 2009, 10:09 PM

Thank God. The Aqua stuff really needs to go, along with the various shades of gray.

Chase817

Mar 25, 2009, 10:10 PM

You can unlock "Marble" in Leopard using iLeopard.

stownsend3

Mar 25, 2009, 10:19 PM

I'm pretty sure we all expect SOME change to the UI to get the average user to spend $129 this summer on a new OS. Not everyone will understand, or care about, the changes under the hood. Many users will just upgrade for one or two new features. (Enter 'Marble')

wonderbread57

Mar 25, 2009, 10:21 PM

Wait, so smoothing out some corners of windows and "flattening" is considered a dramatic change to the OS? Kinda blowing things out of proportion huh?

Full of Win

Mar 25, 2009, 10:21 PM

I like aqua. Guess I'm stupid or something.

Eidorian

Mar 25, 2009, 10:28 PM

I don't have any complaints with the interface. At least the changes aren't drastic like over in the Windows camp. Moving from 98 to XP was hell back in those days.

RonCarr

Mar 25, 2009, 10:29 PM

Wait, so smoothing out some corners of windows and "flattening" is considered a dramatic change to the OS? Kinda blowing things out of proportion huh?

Whoa guy. Have you not seen all of the other changes to coming in Snow Leopard? This is not the major change to the OS but it just adds to the overall overhaul of the OS. Most people will agree that the UI in OS X needs to be unified. The whole idea behind OS X is that when you can use one program, you can use them all because the UI is the same. This makes it very simple to use a Mac. They made a step in the right direction with Leopard and are now just taking it a few steps further.

twoodcc

Mar 25, 2009, 10:32 PM

can't wait for this! but i don't think it will be a huge theme change though

Prabz26

Mar 25, 2009, 10:33 PM

what does this all mean?
sorry im a bit confused......:confused:

ive never used a mac
but intend to get one

and if this is a great thing included in the new Snow Leopard
i will wait to purchase my iMac and get it when it gets released in June

michael.lauden

Mar 25, 2009, 10:42 PM

now this is some news i wanted to see! Even with rumors spiraling out of control about the new iPhone, a 'Tablet', 3.0 Surprises, and more - i am probably the most excited about Snow Leopard.

first thing i do when it comes out is to my Mac Mini. gettin a 7200RPM and a fresh install of it :)

iZoom P5

Mar 25, 2009, 10:43 PM

Prabz26

Mar 25, 2009, 10:46 PM

anyone wanna answer my post above?

DoFoT9

Mar 25, 2009, 10:49 PM

anyone wanna answer my post above?

this topic is just about the GUI (Graphical User Interface) - it simply changes the way that it looks, hopefully for the better :)

HLdan

Mar 25, 2009, 10:49 PM

I certainly welcome the new "Marble" theme as I am really done with aqua. The traffic lights need to go. The aqua scrollbars need to go. The Dock needs to be uniform from the left side of the screen to the right. My windows are always hanging off the edges of the Dock and it makes me want to keep them dead set in the middle to stay evenly in line with the Dock. iTunes falls behind the Dock when resizing it past the length of the Dock and while other apps don't, weird.

I also wish and hope Apple offers a button to lock the Dock items from accidentally being dragged off into a poof. I run a business on Macs and when someone uses the computer they tend to drag stuff off the Dock thinking they deleted something. This can be a disaster for big companies using Macs.

Also I hope Apple allows for us to adjust the Dock without having to use the Terminal to get a 2D Dock.

I would also like Snow Leopard's Finder to be fixed so you can unplug USB and Firewire items without having to eject.
I hate to admit but I do like how Windows Vista's apps fade in when launching, I would like to see SN's apps all zoom in like Quicklook and the iWork suite.

I won't go into the Finder's UI because most people know what's wrong with the Finder especially in terms of Coverflow's resizing issues.

Tanj

Mar 25, 2009, 10:51 PM

I like aqua. Guess I'm stupid or something.

Me too.

Who really cares about the color of the scroll bar? Or if it's the same from app to app? That doesn't change the functionality or anything. I'm sure it wouldn't change my overall mac experience if they were all the same either.

TheSpaz

Mar 25, 2009, 10:52 PM

I'm really excited for this.

Abstract

Mar 25, 2009, 10:52 PM

Wait, so smoothing out some corners of windows and "flattening" is considered a dramatic change to the OS? Kinda blowing things out of proportion huh?

I know. "Oooh, they're tweaking the appearance again. So this really was more than just an 'under the hood' clean-up!" Well, not really. They ALWAYS tweak the look when they update, and they always promise to make it all consistent, and they haven't since they had the metal finish. All they need to do is get it right this time, and by "right", I mean consistent. I really don't care for which shade of grey I get. Just choose one, Apple.

Unless they're reverting back to the old Dock, or the opaque menu bars up top, or go back to pinstripes, this is just another ho-hum tweak.

I've always bought the updates for the real changes they made. They aren't changing the look of OS X, especially not to make it more Windows 7-ish.

football930

Mar 25, 2009, 10:53 PM

i'm guessing it will look something like this
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/5581/marble.png

Tanj

Mar 25, 2009, 10:57 PM

Anuba

Mar 25, 2009, 11:02 PM

P.S. isn't black and sliver (albeit for apple's defense, anodized aluminum) the color scheme that has been used for consumer electronics for decades. Sure it may be a 'new look' for apple, but doesn't it just bring it in line with every other consumer electronics company. I fear that as time goes on and Apple physically switched from white and clear or aluminum, it will also be a metaphorical switch to products that are just, well, more like everything else.
Sure, their products did stand out more in the past; first when they were colorful and curvy when all PCs were beige and square, then when they were white when all PCs were black. I was sort of taken aback when they went black on silver with the MacBook Air, I didn't expect them to go with a commonplace color combo that's already on every Dell Inspiron and Sony Vaio, not to mention the original Titanium PowerBook G4...

It would be nice if they consolidated everything, though, they're all over the place right now. Aqua was designed to match the blobby plastic models like the turqoise G3 and early iMacs, they've flattened it a little and gotten rid of the pinstripes but it's still there. The white peripherals (cables, docks, mice, keyboards etc) were made to match the white era Macs (circa 2003-2007). Both looks clash badly with the black/alu computers. I use a Logitech DiNovo Edge glossy black/brushed aluminium keyboard with my iMac, the only thing that looks out of place on my desk is the white iPhone 3G dock that's made by, erm, Apple. That can't be right. Please bring out a backlit version of the Apple keyboard, with black keys...

GoKyu

Mar 25, 2009, 11:02 PM

I like aqua. Guess I'm stupid or something.

I've only been a Mac user for a little over a year - I really *like* the Aqua interface. I tried the drab graphite theme, and it looked like something you'd find in an accountant's office.

I hope they keep Aqua as an option, at least.

Now, if by "marble" they mean the UI is gonna have a marble texture on stuff...oh yeah, bring it on! :D

Peace

Mar 25, 2009, 11:04 PM

Really though...

Why change something that works fine and people are used to? Not to be cliche but, don't fix what isn't broken.

I hope they at least give Aqua is still an option at least. And seriously, stop adding cover flow to everything. Sure it looks nice, but it's a horrible inefficient way to navigate through anything.

Coverflow is great when you're using your fingers.

And it's also very good when going through tons of documents. you get a preview of the document. I love it.

RonCarr

Mar 25, 2009, 11:04 PM

Tanj

Mar 25, 2009, 11:08 PM

Coverflow is great when you're using your fingers.

And it's also very good when going through tons of documents. you get a preview of the document. I love it.

I don't think it's great when you have your fingers. You can only see one thing at a time, anything ahead or behind is obscured. And there is also no way to navigate through anything in segments like there are with a scrollable list.

Sure, cool, you can see a preview of a document or w/e it is. 1) you can get a preview of the document with out cover flow and 2) seeing a little thumbnail of a research paper isn't as telling as a title because the thumbnail is too tiny to make any of the text out.

It's simply not practical. Sure you're buying into oh it looks cool, but that has nothing to do with practicality.

I've never seen anyone use cover flow when they were legitimately looking for a specific thing. EVER.

Anuba

Mar 25, 2009, 11:16 PM

All they need to do is get it right this time, and by "right", I mean consistent. I really don't care for which shade of grey I get. Just choose one, Apple.
It would be nice, but I think the company is too big and unweildy with too many quasi-independent departments to bring everything together. It would take a rabid nazi to whip everyone into submission. They release guidelines for everyone else, then 15 minutes later they themselves start ignoring them. Remember the brushed aluminium look that was to be used exclusively for applications that interface with hardware in some way or other (iSync etc)? It only took months before that look started appearing in other Apple software that had nothing to do with hardware interfacing. Then out of nowhere came the Mail look, with the flat grey style. Oooh, said the iTunes guys, we're gonna use that too.

It's just like the guys over in Redmond, Vista and Win7 sport several different looks from different versions of Windows, they use several different system fonts with blatant inconsistency. And on top of that there's the WMP look, the Live look, the IE look, the Office look...

stygian728

Mar 25, 2009, 11:17 PM

OS X is going on ten years old... I would like to see a change to s smoother, duotone look. I always change my theme to graphite immediately after installation. I would kinda like an elegant, modern version of NextStep. How cool would that be?

Hey Balin64, sorry this is off topic but I can't post in the correct thread. You still got those Sublime pics? I think a lot of people would be interested over at the Skunk message board. Let me know, thanks!

iMacmatician

Mar 25, 2009, 11:27 PM

This is great! I look forward to the new GUI.

Interesting how both the iTunes 7 look and the black HUD look are referenced. Will Snow Leopard use both exclusively?

inkswamp

Mar 25, 2009, 11:31 PM

I like aqua. Guess I'm stupid or something.

I like Aqua too.

I think it's the first time any single user interface was informed by one image: water. The idea of water has set the tone for almost everything, from the fluid movement of icons and windows resizing, the transparency effects, the flowing effect of windows minimizing to the Dock, the ripple effect in dashboard, the general color choices, the rounded edges, the droplet buttons in the Finder windows, the little waves in the progress bar, the naming of the Dock. Hell, even that damned spinning beach ball alludes to the ocean. To me, there's a little bit of genius in that, turns the UI into an cohesive semi-artistic expression which in turn means we're all able to relate to it a little more readily because it clicks with our subconscious and makes sense.

So even if Apple tweaks a few color schemes and changes, a lot of those Aqua-isms will still be there, lurking in the background. And I'm fine with that. :)

Anuba

Mar 25, 2009, 11:39 PM

I like Aqua too.

I think it's the first time any single user interface was informed by one image: water. The idea of water has set the tone for almost everything, from the fluid movement of icons and windows resizing, the transparency effects, the flowing effect of windows minimizing to the Dock, the ripple effect in dashboard, the general color choices, the rounded edges, the droplet buttons in the Finder windows, the little waves in the progress bar, the naming of the Dock. Hell, even that damned spinning beach ball alludes to the ocean. To me, there's a little bit of genius in that, turns the UI into an cohesive semi-artistic expression which in turn means we're all able to relate to it a little more readily because it clicks with our subconscious and makes sense.

So even if Apple tweaks a few color schemes and changes, a lot of those Aqua-isms will still be there, lurking in the background. And I'm fine with that. :)
They could always use ice as the starting point this time, and still stay in H20 territory.

The Aqua interface was designed to match these...

http://geek-supply.com/images/180026249676.jpg

...not these.

http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2007/11/imac_narrowweb__300x442,2.jpg

Dudeman486

Mar 25, 2009, 11:40 PM

Well said inkswamp. I am definitely ready for UI changes. The scroll bars look silly, but I am a fan of the traffic lights.

kdarling

Mar 25, 2009, 11:43 PM

It's just like the guys over in Redmond, Vista and Win7 sport several different looks from different versions of Windows, they use several different system fonts with blatant inconsistency. And on top of that there's the WMP look, the Live look, the IE look, the Office look...

Like the iPhone's original apps. Most look the same, grey-blue and slick. But thrown in the middle are a couple with their distinctive colorful desktop widget look: the Weather and Stocks.

I suspose one could argue that a mixture keeps a UI from being too boring. :)

BTW

Mar 25, 2009, 11:51 PM

Magnum318

Mar 26, 2009, 12:06 AM

Seems to me that Ileopard takes out the 3d feel of the buttons...which is totally against what they have been building up to...The buttons don't pop..its a little tougher to spot them quickly..

fleshman03

Mar 26, 2009, 12:09 AM

bedifferent

Mar 26, 2009, 12:13 AM

I like Aqua too.

I think it's the first time any single user interface was informed by one image: water. The idea of water has set the tone for almost everything, from the fluid movement of icons and windows resizing, the transparency effects, the flowing effect of windows minimizing to the Dock, the ripple effect in dashboard, the general color choices, the rounded edges, the droplet buttons in the Finder windows, the little waves in the progress bar, the naming of the Dock. Hell, even that damned spinning beach ball alludes to the ocean. To me, there's a little bit of genius in that, turns the UI into an cohesive semi-artistic expression which in turn means we're all able to relate to it a little more readily because it clicks with our subconscious and makes sense.

So even if Apple tweaks a few color schemes and changes, a lot of those Aqua-isms will still be there, lurking in the background. And I'm fine with that. :)

As a designer, kudos for this comment. I never even realized the connection between water fluidity and Max OS X. This concept make a lot of artistic UI sense to me. I do not mind the idea of iPhone UI tweaks, I do not like the iTunes scroll bar or light text on a dark screen.

Brien

Mar 26, 2009, 12:15 AM

Now this would be awesome! I would love to see the iPhone scroll bars throughout the entire OS. One thing that has bothered me is the differences with iLife and the rest of the OS. It seems that they do not work together on the interfaces and just change things whenever they want to.

I recently found a program (iLeopard) that takes all of the aqua details out Leopard. I like the look a lot better than all of the blue from Tiger. The marble interface will be a welcomed feature in my opinion!

They wouldn't have that problem if they used the actual UI elements instead of using custom images. Makes theming more difficult, too, but hey, why write HIG if you aren't going to break them?

mikeinternet

Mar 26, 2009, 12:20 AM

As some suggested the iphone safari scroll bar would be bad ass.

first i thought it'll only work with a trackpad and gesture scrolling, then i remembered that mice have the lil ball em.

so i'm all for the scroll bar only appearing during scrolling. sure you don't get a visual of how long a folder or whatever has to go. but i don't care.

iPhoneJB

Mar 26, 2009, 12:40 AM

Nah... That looks like one of the Mobile Me mods that can be found around

I don't think so. I got these pictures from 2 different sources. I saw a few more pictures of the interface, and it looked FAR more refined than any of the MobileMe/iTunes 7-8 themes on the internet. It probably still has some more work to be done, but looks very good so far.

FF_productions

Mar 26, 2009, 12:42 AM

I still like the candy coat scroll bars..guess I'm old school. I'm always fearful of a GUI change, could be too tacky, too this, too that. (Vista)

Marble subtle look sounds good to me though, I can deal with it.

stownsend3

Mar 26, 2009, 12:44 AM

It would be nice to finally have a consistent look and feel throughout the OS and apps. I'd like to see more 3D OS features like Time Machine, the Dock, and Stacks. More glide pad gestures and even the ability to assign automator script to a custom gesture would be good.

You can already assign custom gestures to your multitouch trackpad, and doesn't really relate to GUI. But if you're interested, Multiclutch works great for this.

Michael73

Mar 26, 2009, 12:54 AM

I love the fact that we can all have a discussion thread that goes on for pages about the UI and that's what it's about as opposed to a certain other OS where we'd all be talking about kernel panics, the dreaded blue screen of death and the general clunkiness of the UI.

I mean let's face it folks, when we have a civilized discussion about whether the bar at the top of the screen should have rounded corners or not (pre-leopard) you know you've got it good ;)

MattInOz

Mar 26, 2009, 01:04 AM

Really though...

Why change something that works fine and people are used to? Not to be cliche but, don't fix what isn't broken.

I hope they at least give Aqua is still an option at least. And seriously, stop adding cover flow to everything. Sure it looks nice, but it's a horrible inefficient way to navigate through anything.

I think the answer will be that it's broken at a more fundamental level.
If they more to Vector UI then they have to redo the art work as the pixel based art doesn't translate.

It seems the new themes may have have tried to simplify the design reduce the number of vectors and processing time to generate screen images.

Pants Dragon

Mar 26, 2009, 01:08 AM

Bodie

Mar 26, 2009, 01:10 AM

I said this on another forum earlier this year. And it may have been said here. When I think Marble, I think of the Dock Shelf with it's shine and reflections. Not any Matt / Flat look on iTunes or elsewhere.

bretm

Mar 26, 2009, 01:24 AM

Me too.

Who really cares about the color of the scroll bar? Or if it's the same from app to app? That doesn't change the functionality or anything. I'm sure it wouldn't change my overall mac experience if they were all the same either.

If you don't care about consistency, user experience, or functionality then there's an OS out there for you that has cheaper hardware to go with it. Why are you using OSX?

This discussion at it's heart is about design. Good design is more productive in many ways. Consistency for one. To be extremely simple, every application has the exact same process to open a file. You don't have to relearn it for every application. You choose file>open. AND, the dialog for opening a file is the same as well. Guess what? The hot key is the same too. What if for every application you used there was a different hot key, a different menu location, and a differenet looking dialog box? What if some apps had a green scroll bar to choose the file, and a red one to change the drive? But in some apps it was a green bar to scroll to a drive, and a red bar to choose the app? Things would get confusing, huh?

Well, good consistent, logical, clear deisgn is something all software and hardware makers strive for. Aren't you glad we all decided the brake is on the left and the gas is on the right?

My point is that you are claiming the discussion is pointless, when in the end, it's a discussion about what makes Apple what they are. Leaders in design. Whether it be hardware or software.

bretm

Mar 26, 2009, 01:27 AM

RonCarr

Mar 26, 2009, 01:35 AM

And how would one scroll without a ball or a track pad genius? Not many people like the mighty mouse.

The way I could see it set up is when you get the mouse close to the side of the window the scroll bar appears. Not that complicated honestly...

butterfly0fdoom

Mar 26, 2009, 01:37 AM

And how would one scroll without a ball or a track pad genius? Not many people like the mighty mouse.

Just have arrows and bars appear when you move the cursor to the edge of the window, I guess.

Mackan

Mar 26, 2009, 01:38 AM

How about they introduce themes? Something else than just gray, gray and gray?

RMo

Mar 26, 2009, 01:49 AM

Aqua is dead already, 10.4 i work with only has brushed metal and grey. The reintroduction of aqua in 10.5 was cool looking but not better, glad Apple will change it back.

What do you mean? 10.4 was slightly "de-Aqua-ified" from previous versions in that there was less pinstriping and, in places, more "plastic-y" look (unified title/toolbar, etc.). In 10.5, it was essentially all replaced with a plastic-y version of the "brushed metal" appearance, similar to iTunes, with some more Aqua-y elements remaining in buttons, scroll bars, and other small areas. I don't think that was a re-introduction. :)

It is generally hypothesized that Marble, then, will continue this trend, and iTunes is probably going to be its model: the scrollbars will likely become more gray-ish, and maybe buttons as well. We'll see...

kjs862

Mar 26, 2009, 01:53 AM

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5H11 Safari/525.20)

Wait, so smoothing out some corners of windows and "flattening" is considered a dramatic change to the OS? Kinda blowing things out of proportion huh?

No it is a dramatic change

MattInOz

Mar 26, 2009, 02:13 AM

matticus008

Mar 26, 2009, 02:18 AM

Sounds more ambitious than the original goal of Snow Leopard being a below-the-surface rewrite.
Does it? Some new artwork resources, even a total replacement, isn't really a "feature" and certainly isn't technically ambitious. It's a huge feat for UI designers, but none of them are milling away at the programming. In fact, a release like this is the perfect time, because a more intensive overhaul and development would pull the UI designers away to work on the new software and features, giving them less time to address the system-level design.
And how would one scroll without a ball or a track pad genius? Not many people like the mighty mouse.
Is there really anyone left without a scrolling mouse or a notebook? If you don't like the Mighty Mouse, there are hundreds of others to choose from. Of course, as others have said, scrolling without a ball, wheel, or trackpad would work exactly as it does now: drag your mouse to the window edge and click. Auto-hide isn't exactly a new concept.
But what do you do when your mouse will scroll down but not up?
like the mighty mouse is prone to doing?
Use the scroll bar?

Master Chief

Mar 26, 2009, 02:30 AM

Nice, the Aqua scroll scroll bars bug me. Also, in some applications like Photoshop and Firefox, sometimes the loading icon is the Mac OS Classic timer which is really weird. What else could they change though?

Oh please, don't come with Firefox because it sucks on OS X. I mean it still uses images for buttons, toolbars and what not to emulate the look and feel of OS X. Just enter: javascript:alert("boo"); in the location bar and tell me that doesn't suck. Want another example? Open a new tab and right click on it and note that all menu items are enabled, when they shouldn't. There are tons of other examples, but 3th party applications are not Apple's concern, and never will.

Now, I like Aqua and I know a lot of people who said that SL will have to bring loads of goodies before they will upgrade. Yes, it was aqua that made most of them switch, and I personally won't use anything that looks like 'Windows Vista', because I can install Vista whenever I want or need it - to which I say: "No thank you".

I have 21 people who confirmed to have made the switch this month, so far, and not because of Aqua but iWorks - I tell you; Pages can be so much fun when you know what to do with it. Another 6 switched after my "Time Machine" demonstration (yeah yeah, its not the best but included for free).

So it might take some time, but in the end people will just accept Apple's changes and buy the upgrade, simply because you'll want to be "up-to-date" don't you? I mean if we ask Windows users to switch, so why wouldn't we be able to accept a much much smaller change?

OBL

Mar 26, 2009, 02:53 AM

So it might take some time, but in the end people will just accept Apple's changes and buy the upgrade, simply because you'll want to be "up-to-date" don't you?

You bet I will. :) I am already saving for it!

The thing is, more than acquiring a good update, which I hope will bring a lot of "goodies", it is for me about supporting innovation that Apple is known for. Since my first iPod, I have seen so much in this community, that amazes me.

It sounds like a blind fan act simply to buy because it has an Apple on it, but the thing is I trust them and I believe it will be a great update regardless of interface changes.

Slurpy2k8

Mar 26, 2009, 03:34 AM

I came across these images when helping someone with iPhone tethering:

http://dznr.org/rzyf
http://dznr.org/vlfa

I pretty sure it is the new Snow Leopard "Marble" user interface.

Can they just go ahead and round ALL corners of dialog boxes, windows, etc already? It looks ass-ugly and confused when the top corners are rounded, the bottom are sharp edges, and the buttons have much a larger rounded radius. Destroys all unity.

And yes, these button styles are an infinite improvement. They really need to take some queues from their web interface elements to implement in their desktop UIs.

Slurpy2k8

Mar 26, 2009, 03:40 AM

Really though...

Why change something that works fine and people are used to? Not to be cliche but, don't fix what isn't broken.

I hope they at least give Aqua is still an option at least. And seriously, stop adding cover flow to everything. Sure it looks nice, but it's a horrible inefficient way to navigate through anything.

Uhh.. because it IS broken. OSX definitely needs a visual refresh. I cant believe some people convince themselves that they like aqua. It was fine 10 yrs ago. Not anymore.

knightlie

Mar 26, 2009, 03:46 AM

Would be wonderful if you could choose to have the scroll bars hide when not in use.

It's funny how Apple seems to like putting interface elements in to new programs inconsistently (such as into iTunes and iPhoto but not elsewhere). Microsoft actually do a better job at rolling out new UI features in one go.

No they don't. (http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/001126.html) Microsoft are way worse than Apple for GUI inconsistency across their products, and even within individual products (Visual Studio is dreadfully inconsistent and ignores many Windows GUI conventions).

MacAndy74

Mar 26, 2009, 03:48 AM

Nice, the Aqua scroll scroll bars bug me. Also, in some applications like Photoshop and Firefox, sometimes the loading icon is the Mac OS Classic timer which is really weird. What else could they change though?

Just a thought, and yes - by the way I also think the Aqua scroll bars are a bit aged. But what about the 'x - +' style, it seems it also is Aqua style; so if Apple change the Aqua scroll bars, will they possibly change the look of the control buttons too?

Otaviano

Mar 26, 2009, 04:08 AM

I'm hoping "Marble" will see OS-X looking more like the panels in Aperture. The translucent sleek black that also appeared in the pictures of Quicktime-X from about a month ago.

knightlie

Mar 26, 2009, 04:20 AM

The way I could see it set up is when you get the mouse close to the side of the window the scroll bar appears. Not that complicated honestly...

Scroll bars are a visual indicator as well as a control to be manipulated. With a hidden scroll bar you have no feedback as to your position within a document unless you move the mouse to the edge to see it.

Not all GUI elements are just for clicking on.

MacFly123

Mar 26, 2009, 04:21 AM

Bring the iPhone's Safari scroll bar. :cool:

Nice, another thing I want is the FireFox multi-touch gestures in Safari.

-3 fingers up (top of page)
-3 fingers down (bottom of page)
-Rotate fingers to switch tabs

After having the iPhone and being able to just touch the status bar to go all the way back to the top of a long web page it KILLS me to have to scroll and scroll on my Mac now! :(

Sounds like it'll be pretty nice! I just hope they take the time in this UI update which is sounds like they are to get rid of any inconsistencies that the UI still has left over from the other older OS's.

For example:

-The monitor icon on the menu bar that is a cinema display from circa 1645 lol!
-The mini control bar on OS windows like "About This Mac". Why is that one smaller than any other??? It bugs me, makes no sense!

Sounds more ambitious than the original goal of Snow Leopard being a below-the-surface rewrite. I hope it's a well thought out gui advance, rather than jumbling things around for the sake of a marketing angle.

I have maintained from the beginning that after Apple promised a lot with Leopard and had a bit of a buggy start and removed features, they decided to under promise and over deliver this time with Snow Leopard. By saying that it will all be under the hood, they take all the pressure off feature wise and then they can surprise us with features that they have been planning the whole time anyway!

P.S. I loved aqua, but yes I think it is time for it to go. I like the new GUIs but the flat blue scroll bar on black bugs me. It looks weird. on the white is fine like in iTunes, but on the black looks really mismatched.

Can they just go ahead and round ALL corners of dialog boxes, windows, etc already? It looks ass-ugly and confused when the top corners are rounded, the bottom are sharp edges, and the buttons have much a larger rounded radius. Destroys all unity.

And yes, these button styles are an infinite improvement. They really need to take some queues from their web interface elements to implement in their desktop UIs.

I highly disagree. If they did what you are proposing with the rounded corners etc. it would look completely retarded!

Overall I think the sign of what is coming is the iPhone GUI and their website.

elppa

Mar 26, 2009, 05:07 AM

Sounds more ambitious than the original goal of Snow Leopard being a below-the-surface rewrite. I hope it's a well thought out gui advance, rather than jumbling things around for the sake of a marketing angle.

Or, more likely, one of the Top Secret features of Leopard which had to be canned as it got more and more delayed.

Of course Apple weren't going to make the same mistake twice. This time they have clearly worked to lower expectations so they can offer a few surprises.

And when Snow Leopard ships it will be >18 months since Leopard shipped. They've had enough time.

puuukeey

Mar 26, 2009, 05:18 AM

I wan't paradigm shift.
it's been thirty years of menu's, windows, scroll bars etc etc.
obviously you cant totally get rid of it, but I think apple should give an API for view plugins.
ZUI ZUI ZUI.
lets see my files arranged with various packing algorithms ala expose. make the most frequently used ones larger.
let my spotlight results come in the form of a huge 3 dimensional dispersion of files, each represented it's own preview, the better matches closer to the camera.
let the icons for widgets be usable widgets
ditch stacks.

also, if we're going to use spotlight as a central metadata repository, there needs to be real usable ways to store metadata derived from more complex algorithms for instance, tempo for mp3s or color pallette for images. these are all standard features in apps and apple can lead the way by standardizing metadata formats.

please make menu's more dynamic. the most you can do now is shove an icon in there! how bout sliders and buttons, or something better

wankey

Mar 26, 2009, 05:19 AM

i'm quite sure Snow Leopard was what Leopard was supposed to be. Then they got hit by the iPhone development resource hoggers and probably didn't plan things out well.

I hope we see some real big things come out of Snow Leopard. I for one am happy that they have gone for a code optimization rather than slather on newer features.

Master Chief

Mar 26, 2009, 05:29 AM

I wan't paradigm shift.
it's been thirty years of menu's, windows, scroll bars etc etc....

please make menu's more dynamic. the most you can do now is shove an icon in there! how bout sliders and buttons, or something better
The guy who brought us the Mozilla tabs also introduced menu tiles, which I think might end up in GUI's one day soon - I've worked with the beta and that I tell you was another stunning experience.

InkMaster

Mar 26, 2009, 05:38 AM

How about they introduce themes? Something else than just gray, gray and gray?

Sigh... how I wish... I miss the good ol' days of Tiger w/ ShapeShifter.

Use the scroll bar?

Or the arrow keys on the keyboard... :rolleyes:

I hope they keep Aqua as an option, at least.

"Apple" and "option" in the same sentence? You best be jokin'... :p

Can they just go ahead and round ALL corners of dialog boxes, windows, etc already? It looks ass-ugly and confused when the top corners are rounded, the bottom are sharp edges, and the buttons have much a larger rounded radius. Destroys all unity.

http://weblogs.asp.net/blogs/kennykerr/vista/aerowizard.png

Like that?

Why must every accountant pretend to be a designer these days :rolleyes:

I cant believe some people convince themselves that they like aqua. It was fine 10 yrs ago. Not anymore.

First of all, don't double post. Second of all, who, if I may ask, in hell are you to preach to people about what they like, and more importantly, who, in that same hell, are you to tell them that you know better about what they like?

cloud 9

Mar 26, 2009, 06:21 AM

Well i like the Aqua too, the jelly makes the UI of Apple unique. And it's one of the basics of Apple for 10 years.

I don't like it when people cry how outdated that is. You might get tired of it in your fast consumerish world, but a good design is and stays timeless.

I quite fear the changes and even more the word 'marble'. It reminds me of three things
* some 90's kinda marble effect used in cheesy websites. It won't look like this, but my brain keeps activating that association.
* something vista would use.
* gray, dark gray, light gray and gray-isch gray...sounds like fun huh, maybe in a bookkeepers office...

On the other hand, for Apple as a business company, some overhaul may be in it's place, just for the marketing and the lightheaded consumers

puregutsxc

Mar 26, 2009, 06:26 AM

DO EVERYTHING IN COVER FLOW!!!!!
IT'S A REVOLUTION IN THE GRAPHICAL USER INTERFACE!!!
and of course, being good little fanboys, we would all flock out to the apple stores to buy it.
:)

talkingfuture

Mar 26, 2009, 06:28 AM

It would be nice to see a refresh to the OSX interface as long as it isn't too dramatic a change and stays tastefully good looking.

richard.mac

Mar 26, 2009, 06:28 AM

They could always use ice as the starting point this time, and still stay in H20 territory.

The Aqua interface was designed to match these...

http://geek-supply.com/images/180026249676.jpg

...not these.

http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2007/11/imac_narrowweb__300x442,2.jpg

great analogy!

if there is a UI update we know its definately going to look like iTunes/iPhoto. Look at the Leopard UI update we saw before in iTunes 7. Apple likes to trial their UI in iTunes as it has its own UI resources which will show in Leopard, Tiger and Windows.

Neodym

Mar 26, 2009, 06:35 AM

I cant believe some people convince themselves that they like aqua. It was fine 10 yrs ago. Not anymore.

Hard to accept different opinions, eh? I too like Aqua, because it is _different_! It is not the usual interface, but instead brings some fun into computing. Think of the "Mac and PC" ad campaign: Aqua is the Mac, grey-in-dull-grey interfaces are the PC.

I still like the Cube and its matching TFT displays, partly also because of that pinstripe look, which makes a great match with Aqua. Since Apple slowly, but surely migrated to a more "serious" look on both machines (Aluminum and black instead of Acryl and white) and interface, in my view they also lost the "WOW"-factor somehow. Back in those days they stood out with machines that _exhibited_ the "Think Different" mentality. Think of the coloured iMac G3, "flowerpot" iMac G4, Cube...
You could really see the fun the engineers had in tinkering with new approaches. Computers suddenly were "emotional" again - people bought because they felt attracted on a non-rational level. The Amiga had a similar effect - people had some emotional relation to their machines with computer chips having real names (like Agnus, Denise, Paula etc.) instead of cryptic numbers or functional names like memory controller or Audio chip.

Of course you have to do evolutionary steps - but every now and then it's time for something revolutionary. If you don't do that and only make evolutionary steps all the time while trying to become more mainstreamish (and going for rational decisions only), you suddenly find yourself within heavy competition. If the machines look pretty much similar to what is already there in the market, people start to compare. Why pay a premium for an Apple box, if the OS is the major distinction to a Wintel box, which looks pretty similar? That's why many people go for a hackintosh these days.

And if Apple now slowly mutates its interface to be (even more) mainstreamish, people will start to ask, why to even bother with struggling with all the hackintosh issues, when they could go for Windows 7, offering a similar experience (at least in their perception). People might argue now, that OSX still has some unique features. But the question is - which of those are really necessary and recognized as such by the user? And which are offered in only slightly different form by other OS's like Windows or Linux as well?!

IMO Apple seriously has to rethink its business model. Until now, they targeted the design-oriented geeks, designers and other people feeling and/or behaving different. They were ready to pay the premium Apple asked, because they were getting a really different product and user experience and - most important - made their purchase decision more on an emotional rather than rational basis.
If Apple decides they have to pursue high numbers of machines by going to look and feel mainstream, they'll lose much of the emotional aspect (often referred to as Steve Jobs' Reality distortion field :) and should better be prepared for intense competition (i.e. price as the dominating factor). If people start to base their purchase decision solely on rational facts (which is fostered by going to look more and more like everyone else), Apples behaviour as a company (e.g. no roadmaps) together with their huge price premium may in the long run have a negative effect on their sales.

Back on topic: People feel Aqua is outdated - maybe because it has not been really updated ever since OSX 10.1. I think the dynamic "waterish" effect could be improved. Make it more realistic, for example. The progress bar could have slower moving "waves" with irregular distances instead of the current uniform waves which have exactly the same distance to predecessor and successor elements. Make it visually roll around the longitudinal axis or irregularly sway back and forth within the bar. Add a very short ripple effect when moving windows and icons (and make this optional so users can switch it off if they don't like it). Use "water drops" in Spotlight instead of (or together with) light circles to highlight search results. Make menus "flow down" instead of simply opening in an instant.

You want to better match the actual silver/black look of the current machines? Give the scroll and progress bars (animated) water in black! Bring on white-on-black pinstripes (isn't that what all the serious businessmen are wearing anyway?) to the window frames. Just don't forget to continue to offer the original Aqua theme for people like me who still like its colourful, yet non-obstrusive look even in aluminum machines (by far more harmonic than e.g. Windows XP's candy look).

What else? I'm sure other people could easily dozens of other suggestions how to really update the Aqua theme without getting too serious and "business-like" by going towards granite, marble, brushed metal and whatever else looks greyish.

Maybe Apple will still surprise me with a really realistic black-and-white marble look that is matched by applied foils giving the computer a look as if its housing would be made of real marble. Something similarly overwhelming and "different" as the first series of coloured iMacs. But seeing the development over the recent years, my hopes are not exactly high...

/Rant over - thanks for reading.

AlexisV

Mar 26, 2009, 06:38 AM

Can they just go ahead and round ALL corners of dialog boxes, windows, etc already? It looks ass-ugly and confused when the top corners are rounded, the bottom are sharp edges, and the buttons have much a larger rounded radius. Destroys all unity.

It's just a design technique. It looks fine - not everything has to have matching collar and cuffs.

I cant believe some people convince themselves that they like aqua. It was fine 10 yrs ago. Not anymore.

Helvetica was fine in 1957 and it's still fine now! :D

AdeFowler

Mar 26, 2009, 06:48 AM

Shuttleworth

Mar 26, 2009, 06:49 AM

Me too.

Who really cares about the color of the scroll bar? Or if it's the same from app to app? That doesn't change the functionality or anything. I'm sure it wouldn't change my overall mac experience if they were all the same either.

I agree, I never even noticed it till reading this thread. Aperture and iTunes have different colour scroll bars, is it such a big deal, doesn't seem much of a dramatic change to the OS compared to the stuff we've already heard about.

displaced

Mar 26, 2009, 07:04 AM

Scroll bars are a visual indicator as well as a control to be manipulated. With a hidden scroll bar you have no feedback as to your position within a document unless you move the mouse to the edge to see it.

Not all GUI elements are just for clicking on.

*applause*

Thank you!

Because I'm addicted to two-finger scrolling, I never use scroll bars as actual things to click on. For me, they're purely an indication of my current relative position within the document, as well as a rough gauge of how big the document I'm reading is.

For example, when browsing to an article I intend to read in Safari, the first thing I do (almost subconsciously) is glance at the scroll bar to check the size of the scroller. If it's a small 'blob' at the top of the bar, I know the page is on the long side. If it takes up half the scroller, I know it's approximately two screen-fulls.

Of all the avenues for innovation in the user interface which Apple could follow, messing with the scroll bar's functionality is just plain silly.

johnnyjibbs

Mar 26, 2009, 07:35 AM

I guess we'll see buttons a bit like those on the MobileMe web apps pop-ups (e.g. for the OK button or whatever).

What I would love to see introduced to Mac OS X is iPhone-like scroll view behaviour - i.e. to be able to take a page, grab it with the mouse and then flick it up to scroll down, complete with bounce at the bottom of the page. Although I often use the two finger multi-touch trackpad gesture to move around a page, this method would be far simpler and easier than reaching for the scroll bar every time you want to move the page just a little bit.

That said, the scroll bar must not go entirely, as the above method is an inefficient method for scrolling a large page (which is a problem on the iPhone).

knightlie

Mar 26, 2009, 07:55 AM

I don't like it when people cry how outdated that is. You might get tired of it in your fast consumerish world, but a good design is and stays timeless.

That doesn't mean a good design can't become dated. Aqua is a great design, but it has definitely dated, IMO. Look at the pictures of the two iMacs in this thread - one looks dated - great, but dated - the other one doesn't.

Ironically, I always use the Windows Classic theme on XP because I find it's the only one that hasn't dated. Odd.

Shaun.P

Mar 26, 2009, 07:58 AM

A bit off topic, but a couple of years ago, in my first year of computer science at University (I dropped it in favour of maths), I learned some basic ideas that designers think about when developing a GUI. I thought it was pretty interesting stuff, so I'll share some of it here:

(I'm on a Windows computer just now so it's a bit hard to reference this to Mac OS X, but I'll try):

When using fonts in a GUI, you'll notice they're all sans serif fonts (i.e. Arial). Serif fonts (i.e. Times New Roman) are avoided. Sans serif fonts are easy for us to read, and stand out visibly.
Serif fonts are best used for blocks of text (i.e. essays, novels) because the serifs at the end of strokes apparently help your eyes flow with the text, making it easier to read.
If you look at most companies logos, NO SMOKING signs, or any kind of sign you see on the street, they are all using sans serif fonts. Where as your favourite book will definietely use a serif font.

I'm using Internet Explorer just now, and at the top, I have: File, Edit, View, Favourites, Tools and Help. I was told designers should ideally place between 5 and 9 menus at the top (7 +/- 2). This is the optimum amount of things a Human can remember. If you place, say 13 menus at the top, it greatly over complicates the GUI. Try it out. I just opened Microsoft Word and it has 9 menu items: File, Edit, View, Insert, Format, Tools, Table, Window and Help.

When you click on one of those menus, i.e. File, another menu will appear. On this new menu there is a lot of reasons why things are ordered the way they are.
Notice if you click on File, then go to Open. Notice 'Open' is followed by ellipses (Open...). These "..." implies that when you select this command, there is more feedback from the user required. For example, if you go to File and Exit or File and Quit, you'll notice there are no "..." because when you quit, the command is final, no more input is required. "Save as..." will always have ellipses as when you select the command, the OS requires more information from you to save the file.

You'll notice as well (on Windows and OS X) that when you click on a menu it has been designed so the most commonly used commands are at the top, or in some cases the more severe command is at the bottom. That is why "Quit" or "Exit" is always at the bottom of the File menu, because it is the most severe command you can use in the program, as it will close it down.

And finally, if you click on a menu, such as File, you'll notice a process called "chunking" is used. Commands which are related to each other are grouped together and separated from other commands by a horizontal line. For example, on the Edit menu of Internet Explorer:

Cut
Copy
Paste
--------------- <------ line separating cut, copy and paste.
Select All
---------------
Find on this Page...

Again, notice the ellipses on "Find on this Page" implying that when you select that command, more information is required from you. The line separates cut, copy and paste from 'select all' as these are different types of commands.

None of this has anything to do with this topic, but I never knew any of this stuff until it was pointed out to me and I think it's amazing to think that pretty much everything in the OS is designed in a certain way for a particular reason. There are probably loads of other reasons why certain things are designed in certain ways in the OS, but these are the ones covered in the course I studied.

I hope some of you find it interesting. :)

iTattoo

Mar 26, 2009, 08:01 AM

But what do you do when your mouse will scroll down but not up?
like the mighty mouse is prone to doing?

I had the same issues ... turn the mouse upside down and run the track ball over a piece of clean white paper. All the built up finger grime comes out, and you're good to go.

tattoo

Anuba

Mar 26, 2009, 08:24 AM

Hard to accept different opinions, eh? I too like Aqua, because it is _different_! It is not the usual interface, but instead brings some fun into computing. Think of the "Mac and PC" ad campaign: Aqua is the Mac, grey-in-dull-grey interfaces are the PC.
Umm... I would love it if Windows was grey-in-dull-grey, but unfortunately it's the other way around - OS X is various shades of greyscale gradients á la iTunes and Mail, while Windows is a barrage of blue and green with the odd yellow and red elements tossed in. An operating system should, ideally, stay in the background and not try to outshine the applicatons and the content. Vista fails miserably in that department, as there are so many strong colors everywhere competing for your attention that you can barely focus on your work. I would place the target demographic of Vista's overall appearance in the 3-8 years old span, and interpret the message as "computing is FUN!". OS X feels much more aimed at adults and professionals. Well, with the exception of the Dock and its huge icons, which reminds me of some sort of 'toddler' mode that you could start up old Mac Performa machines in, back in the early 90's... it was called "EzMac" or something like that. Rather than the standard desktop you'd just get a row of gargantuan icons so that 3-years-olds could point and click on them with ease.

The dull grey look *is* what's unique about the OS X interface these days, it's what makes it look classy and professional, so I hope they explore that further. if you want an explosion of colors, blobby shapes and bevels in the Aqua vein there's Windows Vista for that.

DaBrain

Mar 26, 2009, 08:48 AM

I like aqua. Guess I'm stupid or something.

Nah I don't think so! I also prefer Aqua along with the brushed metal from Tiger. I think the flat look in iTunes stink, reminds me of windows. Where has the innovation gone and while were at it how about user selectable themes across all apps?:rolleyes:

Stridder44

Mar 26, 2009, 08:54 AM

How about they introduce themes? Something else than just gray, gray and gray?

THANK YOU!!

cswiger1

Mar 26, 2009, 09:01 AM

What they really need to do is change make the command buttons bigger. And square. And move them to the right side of the window. ...then put the "file/edit/view" menus in the window ...Then add a "start" menu in the dock (do you get angrier and angrier as you read this? haha)

Neodym

Mar 26, 2009, 09:14 AM

The dull grey look *is* what's unique about the OS X interface these days, it's what makes it look classy and professional, so I hope they explore that further.

You got me wrong. My comparison of a grey-in-dull-grey to the PC in the Mac & PC campaign was to outline the boringness! And my posting was exactly about that i do _not_ want Apple to explore that route further, but instead revert to an unobstrusive freshness as they offered with the first and pure Aqua theme, where the colours were well-chosen with only a decent intenseness and used distinctively, while XP was the candy shop, trying to imitate the success of OSX.

if you want an explosion of colors, blobby shapes and bevels in the Aqua vein there's Windows Vista for that.

Again - i do _not_ vote for a similar candybar style in OSX, but i vote against themes that could be called "shades of grey". I happen to like colours on my desktop, if they are used well-chosen. "Grey in grey" does not necessarily equal "classy and professional" and even more important do "Colours" not automatically equal "tacky and unprofessional"!

themoonisdown09

Mar 26, 2009, 09:21 AM

Sehnsucht

Mar 26, 2009, 09:24 AM

It's just like the guys over in Redmond, Vista and Win7 sport several different looks from different versions of Windows, they use several different system fonts with blatant inconsistency. And on top of that there's the WMP look, the Live look, the IE look, the Office look...

Back when I was a PC user, the inconsistent themes across Windows 95 and 98 always bugged me:

http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr214/TheDavidFrom1988/folders1.png

Half of the time in 98, the icons still looked like Windows 95. Of course, the whole thing was still horrifically ugly, especially when compared to System 8. :D

TheSpaz

Mar 26, 2009, 09:28 AM

Anyone else think they might make scrolling animation like the iPhone? When you scroll, the page keeps moving until it slows down and stops. I really like that effect for some reason.

Sehnsucht

Mar 26, 2009, 09:33 AM

Well, with the exception of the Dock and its huge icons, which reminds me of some sort of 'toddler' mode that you could start up old Mac Performa machines in, back in the early 90's... it was called "EzMac" or something like that. Rather than the standard desktop you'd just get a row of gargantuan icons so that 3-years-olds could point and click on them with ease.

:D How to fix that:

1. Set Magnification to "off".

2. Open Terminal and enter the following:

defaults write com.apple.dock no-glass -boolean NO; killall Dock

Enjoy. :D

Sehnsucht

Mar 26, 2009, 09:35 AM

I would place the target demographic of Vista's overall appearance in the 3-8 years old span, and interpret the message as "computing is FUN!".

"Oh, FUN! We tried that once, it was nothing but pain and frustration!" :D :D

numbersyx

Mar 26, 2009, 10:02 AM

I'm just glad that they're doing something to the UI - at least it will look like an upgrade now...

Kar98

Mar 26, 2009, 10:15 AM

I like aqua. Guess I'm stupid or something.

I haven't got anything against Aqua per se, even though it looks dated. But this whole "half a dozen different design generations in one OS" crap has got to go.

Kar98

Mar 26, 2009, 10:17 AM

I had the same issues ... turn the mouse upside down and run the track ball over a piece of clean white paper. All the built up finger grime comes out, and you're good to go.

tattoo

That got old really fast.

hiimamac

Mar 26, 2009, 10:25 AM

Now this would be awesome! I would love to see the iPhone scroll bars throughout the entire OS. One thing that has bothered me is the differences with iLife and the rest of the OS. It seems that they do not work together on the interfaces and just change things whenever they want to.

I recently found a program (iLeopard) that takes all of the aqua details out Leopard. I like the look a lot better than all of the blue from Tiger. The marble interface will be a welcomed feature in my opinion!

Speaking of iPhone. When youtiuch the Topif the browser, it snaps to top, anyone else peeved that there is no snap to bottom and sometime after pages reload, you sit there spending a minute getting back to the point you were at, say a forum, by scrolling down, down, down. Should be an easy fix. Anyone know what I mean?

branjosef

Mar 26, 2009, 10:27 AM

I am not a big fan of the itunes look so hopefully they don't go that route.

nick9191

Mar 26, 2009, 10:28 AM

Why do people want the iTunes style scroll bar? The Aqua looks far better.

themoonisdown09

Mar 26, 2009, 10:29 AM

Why do people want the iTunes style scroll bar?

Change. The Aqua look has been here since 10.0 in 2001.

jayducharme

Mar 26, 2009, 10:38 AM

That said, the scroll bar must not go entirely, as the above method is an inefficient method for scrolling a large page (which is a problem on the iPhone).

It could probably be implemented similar to the iPhone: just click (or tap) on the menu bar to get back to the top, or click on the status bar at the bottom to jump to the bottom of the page.

electronboy

Mar 26, 2009, 10:41 AM

A new look and feel to the Finder interface is welcome news, but I have to admit I'm much more excited about the complete rewrite in Cocoa! :D

So long Carbon! :eek:

maclancer

Mar 26, 2009, 10:46 AM

I would love if the interface looks like iMovie 09 brown UI:

RichardI

Mar 26, 2009, 10:47 AM

paja

Mar 26, 2009, 10:53 AM

THANK YOU!!

Agree 100%.

We need a Theme editor, but Apple will never allow it.

shiseiryu1

Mar 26, 2009, 10:57 AM

Jeez! I like the current interface. I really like the 3D look. iTunes? I think it looks like Windows. The only part I would want changed are those three little 'droplets' in the upper left of every window (the traffic lights). They are not nearly big enough to suit me. I regularly click on the wrong one.
Other than that, I hope they leave it alone.
Rich :cool:

I agree with you on this one. I appreciate Apple's attention to detail, however I think there are bigger things to worry about than just colors and polish. Two things that I'd like to see are:

1. The ability to truly "Maximize" a window like we've been able to do in the windows world for 10+ years
2. Windows steals plenty of stuff from Apple...this time Apple should steal from Windows... I really like the ability to make a window fit half of the screen by dragging it to either side of the screen (like in Windows 7).

Cheers.

bdkennedy1

Mar 26, 2009, 10:58 AM

Wow, even Gizmodo got to this news yesterday.

bedifferent

Mar 26, 2009, 11:04 AM

Where has the innovation gone and while were at it how about user selectable themes across all apps?:rolleyes:

Exactly. I tried modding programs such as Windows Shade, but it would make much more sense to implement a UI tweaking application.

Anuba

Mar 26, 2009, 11:11 AM

:D How to fix that:

1. Set Magnification to "off".

2. Open Terminal and enter the following:

defaults write com.apple.dock no-glass -boolean NO; killall Dock

Enjoy. :D
Cool! It's "-boolean YES;", though. ;)

I already have that look since I use the vertical Dock layout. Widescreen 16:10 steals enough space vertically on its own, I don't need the Dock to deprive me of even more -- and I don't like auto-hide -- so I keep it on the side of the screen. But it's nice to get rid of the 3D dock... the mirror effect is like something Microsoft would come up with.

sohaness

Mar 26, 2009, 11:28 AM

wow i'd love to see a bit of a UI refresh...

haravikk

Mar 26, 2009, 11:46 AM

Themes is a definite must if they're going to tweak the UI yet-again. I mean, I have no major problems with the current UI really, as the grey has never put me off as it's a good, non-distracting colour; i.e - it's a good UI from a workflow perspective. Windows 7's interface is nice to look at, but not especially practical once you get past the shininess.

I would however like to have a darker UI personally, I've always liked shiny-black for example. A themes/skinning capability has been sorely lacking for a while now, I know there are 3rd party solutions but these are hacks, and often break with OS updates. Properly support themes would be awesome.

Oh-es-Ten

Mar 26, 2009, 11:58 AM

I also wish and hope Apple offers a button to lock the Dock items from accidentally being dragged off into a poof. I run a business on Macs and when someone uses the computer they tend to drag stuff off the Dock thinking they deleted something. This can be a disaster for big companies using Macs.

Most big companies would probably use Open Directory and MCX to push policy onto machines for this type of restricted preference.

I know as I have been working on doing this for a large company. Each department has a different default Dock, you can lock them of course and pretty much any other preference is enforceable that way. It is all built into Leopard and Tiger right now.

srl7741

Mar 26, 2009, 12:00 PM

I don't mind if they tweak the UI but I really hope they leave us the option to keep the current theme. I don't know if I want to be forced to look/use a new UI. I like the current one but I'm also open to something new. I would like options i guess.

johndoh

Mar 26, 2009, 12:04 PM

".... dramatic changes ..." ...please... they are moving a few pixels around. Apple using batteries that held a charge after more than a year of use - now that would be dramatic.

MrCrowbar

Mar 26, 2009, 12:08 PM

I'm an application developer and have to think about this all the time. Fun stuff...

Are there any online resources about that?
I know about the Apple HUI guidelines, but they're a bit outdated and even Apple doesn't respect them, really.

That "between 5 and 9" items in the main menu makes total sense. Some applications add one menu item per installed plugin which can really clutter things up (even worse, in OSX the rightmost entries don't appear if your screen resolution is too small...). Better apps usually have a plugin entry where everything is listed.

If there's some universal guidelines on how to make GUIs better to use, I'd appreciate some links.

o0samotech0o

Mar 26, 2009, 12:10 PM

I just think that without any design changes, or UI changes, it's going to be hard for apple to sell SL. Yeah, we all know it's about speed, but for the avrg. user, they don't need it really. I'll still be buying it, but for the occasional computer user/average, SL won't appeal to them much.

I would of rather They brought out a new OS with more UI and GUI changes, and with the rewritten apps, and the speed, then us to wait longer for it, rather than having SL, then 'thenextcat'.

Anyone agree?

I just think Apple will be needing to try extra hard trying to sell it to an average user.

-Sam:apple::apple:

dagamer34

Mar 26, 2009, 12:32 PM

I came across these images when helping someone with iPhone tethering:

http://dznr.org/rzyf
http://dznr.org/vlfa

I pretty sure it is the new Snow Leopard "Marble" user interface.

It's also the same kind of UI used on me.com. And we'll probably see iTunes/iPhoto type scrollbars. I'm not sure really what else is Aqua about the UI anymore.

MacFabulous

Mar 26, 2009, 12:33 PM

Wikipedia® : 1) "Marble is a nonfoliated metamorphic rock resulting from the metamorphism of limestone. 2) Metamorphic code is a programming technique used to disguise code in computer viruses".

So the question is... What is the code that is being disguised in the Snow Leopard builds? Besides a new UI, I would say the the possibillity to interact with multitouch on future Mac screens and future iTablets.

It´s very clear to me. Therefore the final UI might be a huge change and a very welcome suprise...

Here is me hoping!!!:D

sg.hill

Mar 26, 2009, 12:56 PM

I don't think it's great when you have your fingers. You can only see one thing at a time, anything ahead or behind is obscured. And there is also no way to navigate through anything in segments like there are with a scrollable list.

Sure, cool, you can see a preview of a document or w/e it is. 1) you can get a preview of the document with out cover flow and 2) seeing a little thumbnail of a research paper isn't as telling as a title because the thumbnail is too tiny to make any of the text out.

It's simply not practical. Sure you're buying into oh it looks cool, but that has nothing to do with practicality.

I've never seen anyone use cover flow when they were legitimately looking for a specific thing. EVER.

When coverflow came out for iTunes, I didn't see it as more than eye-candy either. I'm 21 and most of the music I own was purchased in digital format. It's not really helpful for navigation because I don't have any idea what most album art looks like or which albums contain what songs.

I was excited and thought I used coverflow quite productively when it was introduced into finder for documents, however. I try to keep everything in digital format. The most efficient way I could think of for converting my stacks of paper into PDFs was through a repetitive naming scheme that didn't help me much (i.e. - scan0001.pdf). Coverflow made it pretty easy to see a full-size preview of a document without opening it. I could then easily rename it to something more detailed (i.e. - 20090316_receipt_jewel-osco.pdf). It was also an extremely helpful tool for entering data in spreadsheets to determine if it was worth filing a Schedule A or tracking gas mileage.

In response to your biggest complaints:
For renaming files and data-entry, I think it's helpful to only allow one thing to be clearly seen. I'm not on a Mac now, so I can't check, but I don't recall the preview functionality being as quick before Coverflow. You can expand the size of the preview in finder quite easily. I was reading the data from my receipts and documents with no troubles.

On topic:
I'm in agreement with most here. I'll be glad to see the OS with a unified look. On top of being more comfortable to use, it should be easier to support with novice users. Very subtle differences tend to add lots of confusion and shake the user's confidence with their support person, especially with phone support:

"Click the blue 'OK' button"
"There is no blue 'OK' button"
"What are you seeing?"
"There are two gray buttons: 'Cancel' and 'OK'"
---------------------------
"...you can navigate your movies folder by clicking-and-holding the scroll bar"
"What's a scroll bar?"
"It's the shiny blue oval on the right side of the window"
"There is nothing like that here"
"Is there a flat gray oval?..."

mdodd

Mar 26, 2009, 01:32 PM

Part of the Marble interface is found in QuickTime X of the latest seeded build of Snow Leopard. For those who want to see actual screenshots (http://theilife.com/2009/03/17/mac-os-x-snow-leopard-106-build-10a286-exclusive-preview/).

bluehoo

Mar 26, 2009, 02:24 PM

Instead of displaying the entire scroll column/row at all times, Apple could just overlay only the "blue thing/slider?" over the screen.

The biggest thing I'd like to see change is having the menu auto hide like the doc until I mouse over. I need all the vertical screen I can get on my 13" MacBook.

vohdoun

Mar 26, 2009, 02:50 PM

jgbhardy

Mar 26, 2009, 02:59 PM

I know it's just a artist's rendition, but if Apple could find a way to pull this off for all of their apps, I would be very impressed.

http://images.appleinsider.com/quicktimexplayer090307-2.jpg

The original discussion can be found here (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=663659)

No no no and no! I'm fed up with all this frosted glass black thing going on in everything OS at the moment. Vista has it and now people want it in OS X, i say no! the marble style scroll bars i think i can live with i kind of want some colour in OS X but not to the extent that windows does, it just hurts your eyes with all the aero eye candy!
I'm wondering if by implementing a universal GUI whether it may have system benefit in reducing file sizes etc? i personally like the idea of scroll bars disappearing and only showing when you scroll or hover over them.

Goona

Mar 26, 2009, 03:12 PM

Speaking of iPhone. When youtiuch the Topif the browser, it snaps to top, anyone else peeved that there is no snap to bottom and sometime after pages reload, you sit there spending a minute getting back to the point you were at, say a forum, by scrolling down, down, down. Should be an easy fix. Anyone know what I mean?

Yes I get really annoyed by this.

Goona

Mar 26, 2009, 03:14 PM

techfreak85

Mar 26, 2009, 03:25 PM

why apple would try and add such a big thing to the OS this late in the Dev cycle is beyond me. The UI is literally everything. If u try and throw it in within the last couple Betas, then u'll be in for big trouble.

Anuba

Mar 26, 2009, 03:42 PM

I wouldn't be impressed. Thats horrid. It looks Windows Media Player 11 related.

Well, get used to the thought because QuickTime will look a lot like that, insofar as the controls go. It's been reported to have edge-to-edge video with controls that only appear on mouseover, just like WMP12 in Windows 7. As for the black title bar in the artist's rendition, I seriously doubt that part.

2Shae

Mar 26, 2009, 03:52 PM

they should change it to a complete MobileMe look or at least change the buttons and scrollbars to that look

Full screen example:
http://blog.kevinandersson.dk/2008/08/25/wip-mobile-me-theme-for-facade/comment-page-1/

techfreak85

Mar 26, 2009, 03:55 PM

RMo

Mar 26, 2009, 04:08 PM

Two things that I'd like to see are:

1. The ability to truly "Maximize" a window like we've been able to do in the windows world for 10+ years...
Cheers.

I actually like the behavior of this button in OS X better than the maximize button in Windows. In Windows, a maximized window will always take up all of your screen, regardless of its contents; in OS X, the window is (supposed to be...) sized to best fit its contents. There's no point in, for example, the iChat contact list to take up all the screen horizontally when a smaller amount of space is needed. (Of course, I don't always agree with what the application thinks, but it's easy enough to resize on your own. :) I don't think I've ever made any app on my Mac take up all of my screen.)

diemos

Mar 26, 2009, 04:09 PM

Oh, I can't wait.

2Shae

Mar 26, 2009, 04:16 PM

i thought we got rid of black and white in 1990?:p

Says who?

I like that look way more than even the current Leopard gray look.
More modern and sleek.

techfreak85

Mar 26, 2009, 04:19 PM

Says who?

I like that look way more than even the current Leopard gray look.
More modern and sleek.

im just saying, i want it to look nice an juicy i guess. if i wanted to use a greyscale ui, i would get a 128 Macintosh:p

jgbhardy

Mar 26, 2009, 04:21 PM

jgbhardy

Mar 26, 2009, 04:23 PM

I would quite like something different with the grey, like tiger had the brushed metal look, it was grey but an interesting grey at least!

techfreak85

Mar 26, 2009, 04:25 PM

Could you have a more depressing UI!

thats what im tryin to say!:eek:

2Shae

Mar 26, 2009, 04:25 PM

Could you have a more depressing UI!

oke oke I get it...you don't like the black windows.

But the buttons (Add / Don't Add), sliders and scrollbars are nice :p

techfreak85

Mar 26, 2009, 04:30 PM

But the buttons (Add / Don't Add), sliders and scrollbars are nice :p
no not really...:o

jgbhardy

Mar 26, 2009, 04:33 PM

oke oke I get it...you don't like the black windows.

But the buttons (Add / Don't Add), sliders and scrollbars are nice :p

Nope they are almost the worse part, that theme just makes me think of some kind of sci-fi movie where they are in space in the future but the computer system is trying to be futuristic but really it looks crap and depressingly bland, way too dark, would feel like sitting in a dark room all day with a theme like that.

2Shae

Mar 26, 2009, 04:49 PM

Nope they are almost the worse part, that theme just makes me think of some kind of sci-fi movie where they are in space in the future but the computer system is trying to be futuristic but really it looks crap and depressingly bland, way too dark, would feel like sitting in a dark room all day with a theme like that.

Dude that's some imagination you have there!

The MobileMe buttons and sliders (KISS theme) are really cool when you use them...even with Leopard.

And as if Leopard doesn't feel dated and depressing...It's freakin' gray!!!

jgbhardy

Mar 26, 2009, 04:53 PM

Dude that's some imagination you have there!

The MobileMe buttons and sliders (KISS theme) are really cool when you use them...even with Leopard.

And as if Leopard doesn't feel dated and depressing...It's freakin' gray!!!

I know it can be a hinder sometimes but i think it could be a super power:cool:
True leopard is already on a depressing level with the grey and everything but its nicer then the whole glossy black thing going on in vista and these mock ups. What i want to see is an interesting grey, one like tiger it was grey but a metallic brushed metal much nicer i think then leopard grey.

drakeshipway

Mar 26, 2009, 05:03 PM

Bring the iPhone's Safari scroll bar. :cool:

+1

I don't want to look at the scroll bar when i don't need it.

techfreak85

Mar 26, 2009, 05:05 PM

+1

I don't want to look at the scroll bar when i don't need it.

so how would that work if someone didnt have a scroll ball? not many people use the arrow keys to scroll down.

jgbhardy

Mar 26, 2009, 05:13 PM

so how would that work if someone didnt have a scroll ball? not many people use the arrow keys to scroll down.

Its been said a million times before, when you move the mouse to the side they would then appear just like when using full screen in pages!

Ubuntu

Mar 26, 2009, 05:14 PM

The iTunes look applied to the whole OS? Bring it on!

I actually despise the blue part of the iTunes/10.5 Finder look. Ah well. :(

drakeshipway

Mar 26, 2009, 05:14 PM

so how would that work if someone didnt have a scroll ball? not many people use the arrow keys to scroll down.

When you put your cursor over the area where the scroll bar is, it appears.

matticus008

Mar 26, 2009, 05:53 PM

Because I'm addicted to two-finger scrolling, I never use scroll bars as actual things to click on.
The same is true for nearly everyone.
For example, when browsing to an article I intend to read in Safari, the first thing I do (almost subconsciously) is glance at the scroll bar to check the size of the scroller.
Again, you and just about everyone else.
Of all the avenues for innovation in the user interface which Apple could follow, messing with the scroll bar's functionality is just plain silly.
Meaning what? It's a total waste of screen real estate 99% of the time. Once the document fully loads, you see the relative size of the page, it fades away. You can check your progress each time you scroll when it fades in. The functionality is still the same. It remains a scrollbar, with a thumb and track reflecting the proportional length.

The only real difference is that it becomes an unobtrusive overlay on the document and doesn't waste 20 pixels of space in both directions on every window for a UI element that, as you say, is largely non-interactive in 2009. Anyone who does use it will have to drag their mouse over to the side of the window anyway, so it's no extra labor.

NXTMIKE

Mar 26, 2009, 07:32 PM

I don't have any complaints with the interface. At least the changes aren't drastic like over in the Windows camp. Moving from 98 to XP was hell back in those days.

imagine a 98 to Vista change. that would be brutal.

JavaWizKid

Mar 26, 2009, 07:51 PM

Marble!?!

QuarterSwede

Mar 26, 2009, 08:08 PM

...

Meaning what? It's a total waste of screen real estate 99% of the time. Once the document fully loads, you see the relative size of the page, it fades away. You can check your progress each time you scroll when it fades in. The functionality is still the same. It remains a scrollbar, with a thumb and track reflecting the proportional length.

The only real difference is that it becomes an unobtrusive overlay on the document and doesn't waste 20 pixels of space in both directions on every window for a UI element that, as you say, is largely non-interactive in 2009. Anyone who does use it will have to drag their mouse over to the side of the window anyway, so it's no extra labor.
Just wanted to add that I completely agree with you. After using Mobile Safari it's obvious this is the way to go.

yossim

Mar 26, 2009, 08:35 PM

what is wrong with the blue scrollbar?

NT1440

Mar 26, 2009, 08:46 PM

what is wrong with the blue scrollbar?

People seem to think its outdated and doesnt fit in well with the direction apple is obviously heading towards.

I agree.

darijoe

Mar 26, 2009, 08:47 PM

That sounds way to far fetched. I doubt any new UI will be revealed in just a developer seed in the middle of the beta period. Shun anyone who thinks that something will pop out before WWDC!!

But that doesn't mean I'm not looking forward to seeing some UI changes. I'm quite excited about it!

yossim

Mar 26, 2009, 08:59 PM

The whole mac thing is new to me, having just purchased my first mac last fall. So I'm still fascinated with the UI as it is. One thing for sure is that it is way better than xp.

elppa

Mar 26, 2009, 09:04 PM

I find it amusing how the much vilified MobileMe is now pretty solid and the web interface is held up of an example of where Apple should be headed on the Desktop. That's not bad turn around.

pulsar4756

Mar 26, 2009, 09:25 PM

I like the old aqua (in mac os x v.10.0 or 10.1). It just really appeals to me. Sadly, I was about 6 around then and we had a PC so I never experienced using it.:(

But I like the idea of a new user interface in snow leopard simply for a change from the leopard look that my first and current mac has.

Slightly off topic, do you notice that dashboard looks kind of outdated. It would be cool if it was updated in snow leopard to look more like the iPhone.:p

yossim

Mar 26, 2009, 09:39 PM

would you pay for an upgrade in the UI though?

I like the water effect that leopard's dashboard has.

kabunaru

Mar 26, 2009, 09:42 PM

But I like the idea of a new user interface in snow leopard simply for a change from the leopard look that my first and current mac has.

The change can happen now as we speak:
http://www.ileopard2.co.cc/page0/page0.html

Anuba

Mar 26, 2009, 09:47 PM

I really don't understand all these comments about grey (and black) being "depressing".

First off, if minimalism and grey/black depresses you, you shouldn't be using a Mac at all because the hardware looks exactly like that - a drab slab of naked metal with some black on it. There are plenty of pink and lime green PC laptops from various vendors if color is your cup of tea.

Secondly, an operating system is supposed to sit quietly in the background, not hog the foreground like some attention whore. That's what professional tools are supposed to look like - distraction free. Just look at Adobe's Creative Suite that just keeps getting flatter and greyer for every version. Tool icons, palettes, everything is grey -- you can even set it to show the application icon in greyscale (the app icon up in the corner is the only colored part left in the interface).

If there are screaming colors all over your screen, you're probably looking at Windows Vista. I thought you guys wanted OS X to be everything that Vista is not, but I guess I was wrong.

yossim

Mar 26, 2009, 09:48 PM

I like the aqua much better.

Leopard is great the way it is.

NT1440

Mar 26, 2009, 09:49 PM

would you pay for an upgrade in the UI though?

I like the water effect that leopard's dashboard has.

You dont pay merely for that, a UI change would be just a great freebie compared to what SL is about.

NT1440

Mar 26, 2009, 09:53 PM

Techguy172

Mar 26, 2009, 09:56 PM

I like the aqua much better.

Leopard is great the way it is.

We haven't seen the new UI yet so how do you know aqua is better.

techfreak85

Mar 26, 2009, 09:59 PM

yossim

Mar 26, 2009, 10:22 PM

I'm going off of screenshots and the descriptions that I have read.

Besides I'm not bored with the UI yet, being a mac newbie.

Anuba

Mar 26, 2009, 10:46 PM

Exactly!

The apple of late has been going for something they pull off beautifully, a sleek industrial look for all aspects of their products.
Yep. And to make the OS look like the hardware is only in keeping with Apple tradition. The first couple of versions of OS X looked exactly like the hardware of the time. The greyish white pinstripes, round, flowing shapes and strong colors etc.

ya but i also dont want it to look 1980s ish
What's 80's-ish about greyscale? I lived through the 80's and let me assure you that COLORS were not in short supply. It was all one giant Miami Vice-inspired, neon-lit extravaganza. As for computers in the 80's, the manufacturers were so thrilled that they were able to produce color graphics they were practically unstoppable. Unless they were stuck with black & white, like the Sinclair ZX81.

It wasn't until the 90's they had finally worked up the confidence to tone down the interface and go with greyscale.

UI design trends are cyclical... in the mid 90's it was all like "wohoo, we've discovered AlienSkin's bevel and drop shadow plugins, let's use that on everything". In 1997 or thereabouts the 3D stuff went stale, and suddenly graphics were supposed to be super flat with no hint of depth. Then in 2001 came OS X with Aqua, and kablam, the drop shadows and bevels we'd been flatly rejecting for the last few years were back again.

Now we've been doing that for several years and it's gotten to a point where the glossy plastic effect that's on everything from Dashboard widgets to the Vista taskbar is getting really old. Someone's gotta break into new territory (or revisit an old one), and Apple thrives on starting trends, not following them, so...

DoFoT9

Mar 26, 2009, 10:50 PM

....Apple thrives on starting trends, not following them, so...

thus why we are where we are :) i love apple as a company, they start things that seem to stick (apart from a few hiccups anyway). whats that word... aahh revolutionary! thats it :)

kabunaru

Mar 26, 2009, 10:51 PM

Ha. Two years ago a lot of people would have booed this news. Now, it's the opposite. A lot of people embracing the iTunes 7/8 look.

yossim

Mar 26, 2009, 10:56 PM

that's very true. It will be interesting to see what Apple starts with this.

techfreak85

Mar 26, 2009, 11:45 PM

hey guys remeber the rumors a few months before Leopard was supposed to come out, about Illuminous?

MWPULSE

Mar 27, 2009, 12:04 AM

i have to say, im actually really geniunely excited for SL now, i thought it was all about under the hood eh?? pfft apple fools everyone agaaaain :D what is ironic, is if im to believe what MS is now doing, its all about the shiny stuff, just as apple are giving up on shiny stuff and going with sleek and minimilist..

I personally really quite like the silver look, the first thing i did when i got both my macs was put it in graphite not blue.. goes alot better with the stuff i have..crikey i even went n chose an ipod nano (chromatic) when i got the lappie just so they matched!!

I have since spent 3 months trying to unify the look of the OS so i can get it looking sawweet. I dont personally think the OS look is boring in the slightest, asides from the fact its not supposed to be bright red with blue font anyways..

The only thing i think they could do to improve the OS, is generally unify it, (itunes, or iLife, or go backwards, i dunno but they need to choose one, and stick with it!)

Im also quite liking the idea of this auto-hide scroll bar, so long as they do it well, then its all goooood :-)

On the other hand im quite enjoying the run-up to this SL release, daarn apple know how to keep us on our toes eh??
heh

PTP out ;-)

AidenShaw

Mar 27, 2009, 12:35 AM

On the other hand im quite enjoying the run-up to this SL release, daarn apple know how to keep us on our toes eh??

Not really - some of us are running Windows 7 RC1, and waiting for the final bits.

inkswamp

Mar 27, 2009, 01:30 AM

Can they just go ahead and round ALL corners of dialog boxes, windows, etc already? It looks ass-ugly and confused when the top corners are rounded, the bottom are sharp edges, and the buttons have much a larger rounded radius. Destroys all unity.

The concept behind dialogs in OS X is a scroll or sheet, like a piece of paper that slides down from the top. Imagine someone taking a scroll and unrolling it downward. The bottom edges would be square and the top would be rounded. I don't find that at all out of place in OS X. In fact, I'd never even taken note of it before you'd pointed it out. Just seems to fit. I disagree 100% with your opinion of this.

Anaemik

Mar 27, 2009, 02:21 AM

Am I the only person who feels that the shade of grey used in the marble/iTunes/MobileMe scrollbars clashes rather nastily with the neutral tones used in other areas of the UI? I have iTunes open as I write this and something just doesn't quite seem to sit right for me. First of all, there is the standard neutral grey of the top area of the application (which is fine and unobtrusive). Then there is the pale lilac/grey of the sidebar on the left side of the interface - a neutral-ish colour but with definite warm overtones. Then there is the slightly blue/grey of the scroll bars - once again neutral-ish, but with definite cold overtones. They're both blue-ish, but they're from completely different families of blue, and it feels confusing and awkward to me. To compound this issue in iTunes, the top area of the iTunes store uses yet another blue which clashes with the distinctly royal blue of the colour used to denote a highlighted list item. I really feel that if they are going to consolidate the interface on a system-wide level, then they could really benefit from revisiting the colour palette used and ironing out some of these niggling colour psychology issues.

Or maybe it's just me.

cloud 9

Mar 27, 2009, 04:53 AM

if you don't like a 'scroll bar' think about this...

how do you know where something is placed on a long website or large document?
because you remembered the relative place of the scrollbar.
Not because you have read the entire document or webiste
Not because you have read the title where it's under. (It can help to specify...)

But because you remembered visually the place of the scroll bar.

A scrollbar that fades in and fades out whenever is too distracting.

Do you guys actually work with large documents on big screens? :p

volfreak

Mar 27, 2009, 07:41 AM

I actually like the behavior of this button in OS X better than the maximize button in Windows. In Windows, a maximized window will always take up all of your screen, regardless of its contents; in OS X, the window is (supposed to be...) sized to best fit its contents. There's no point in, for example, the iChat contact list to take up all the screen horizontally when a smaller amount of space is needed. (Of course, I don't always agree with what the application thinks, but it's easy enough to resize on your own. :) I don't think I've ever made any app on my Mac take up all of my screen.)

I completely agree - I don't want Maximize like Windows. A window should take only the space it needs to display its contents. It seems to me maximize on Windows was done so that people that were used to one program at a time in DOS would feel comfortable. Also, since there is only one menu bar in the Mac (much better from a usability standpoint, muscle memory and all that stuff), there is no need to have a window take full-screen.

Anuba

Mar 27, 2009, 10:15 AM

I completely agree - I don't want Maximize like Windows.
There are lots of things I don't want in OS X and Windows, but that shouldn't dictate what others can or can't have. What harm would a tiny Maximize button next to the tiny 'traffic lights' buttons do? Would it steal space? Would it make you cry?

A window should take only the space it needs to display its contents.
No, a window should take up whatever space the user wants it to take up. It's called freedom of choice. We don't need some communist system that dictates window size for us like OS X does, with its lack of a Maximize button and resistance to window resizing.

It seems to me maximize on Windows was done so that people that were used to one program at a time in DOS would feel comfortable.
No, it was done to reduce desktop clutter so that you don't have to look at your desktop icons, your desktop wallpaper and bits and pieces of other applications while you're focusing on your work. That sort of clutter was inevitable on Mac until Apple introduced Spaces to cover their arses. Microsoft tried the Mac paradigm in Office, eliminating the main program window and putting all documents in separate windows floating around, but users hated it with a passion so M$ quickly moved back to the traditional window structure in the following version.

Also, since there is only one menu bar in the Mac
Yes, and that's one of the main reasons why some people puke all over Mac and would never switch to one. The single menu bar is a retarded solution which dates back to an age when desktop real estate was in short supply.

Apple wanted to ditch the single-menu solution and give OS X a fresh start, but narrow-minded Mac luddites started bawling their little eyes out so the menu had to stay. So now we're stuck with this neanderthal solution that makes working with a dual screen setup a PITA, because whatever application you place on the secondary screen will have its menu on the primary screen. If these are two 30" screens, it won't stop at carpal tunnel syndrome, your arm will fall off from making the mouse cursor travel 6 miles roundtrip every time you want to access a menu item.

Text menus are an outdated solution anyway. Microsoft started eliminating them (or at least hiding them) in IE, WMP, Office 2007 and other applications. Apple did the same in Safari 4 for Windows, which is actually better than Safari 4 on my Macs...

Also, the menu bar in OS X is a total waste of screen space. The middle part is always empty because no app has that many menus. Here's an example where Windows is much more efficient - it fits both the menus and the min/max/close buttons into the same space where OS X only has the traffic lights buttons, and thus needs a separate menu bar in addition to that.

Man, the OS X menu font is heee-uge when you see them side-by-side like that, looks like some sort of accessibility mode for the visually impaired...

Mackan

Mar 27, 2009, 10:16 AM

hey guys remeber the rumors a few months before Leopard was supposed to come out, about Illuminous?

Yeah, turned out to be nothing. History may repeat itself.

volfreak

Mar 27, 2009, 10:34 AM

There are lots of things I don't want in OS X and Windows, but that shouldn't dictate what others can or can't have. What harm would a tiny Maximize button next to the tiny 'traffic lights' buttons do? Would it steal space? Would it make you cry?

No, a window should take up whatever space the user wants it to take up. It's called freedom of choice. We don't need some communist system that dictates window size for us like OS X does, with its lack of a Maximize button and resistance to window resizing.

No, it was done to reduce desktop clutter so that you don't have to look at your desktop icons, your desktop wallpaper and bits and pieces of other applications while you're focusing on your work. That sort of clutter was inevitable on Mac until Apple introduced Spaces to cover their arses. Microsoft tried the Mac paradigm in Office, eliminating the main program window and putting all documents in separate windows floating around, but users hated it with a passion so M$ quickly moved back to the traditional window structure in the following version.

Yes, and that's one of the main reasons why some people puke all over Mac and would never switch to one. The single menu bar is a retarded solution which dates back to an age when desktop real estate was in short supply.

Apple wanted to ditch the single-menu solution and give OS X a fresh start, but narrow-minded Mac luddites started bawling their little eyes out so the menu had to stay. So now we're stuck with this neanderthal solution that makes working with a dual screen setup a PITA, because whatever application you place on the secondary screen will have its menu on the primary screen. If these are two 30" screens, it won't stop at carpal tunnel syndrome, your arm will fall off from making the mouse cursor travel 6 miles roundtrip every time you want to access a menu item.

Text menus are an outdated solution anyway. Microsoft started eliminating them (or at least hiding them) in IE, WMP, Office 2007 and other applications. Apple did the same in Safari 4 for Windows, which is actually better than Safari 4 on my Macs...

Also, the menu bar in OS X is a total waste of screen space. The middle part is always empty because no app has that many menus. Here's an example where Windows is much more efficient - it fits both the menus and the min/max/close buttons into the same space where OS X only has the traffic lights buttons, and thus needs a separate menu bar in addition to that.

Wow. I don't think any of this would make me cry but aren't you a wee bit defensive?

Let's see. No one says you can't maximize a screen. Drag it to full screen. Or should we have 4 buttons. Is maximize the Mac max or the Windows max? If it's added, it wouldn't hurt my feelings. You said you wanted maximize like Windows as opposed to the Mac version. So, your version of a dictatorship is different how? :) And a window (Mac, Windows or Linux) can take up the exact amount of space that a user wants. Just resize it. I do wish the Mac allowed resizing using any edge/corner of the window but I still prefer the Mac's maximize philosophy.

Actually a single menu bar is a better UI than a menu bar for each app. Talk about wasted space. Also, muscle memory. I know I can throw my mouse to the top of the screen and always hit the menu bar. I don't have to pay close attention to "which" menu bar I'm choosing (oops clicked the wrong app because I don't have everything maximized and can see multiple apps at once :) ). And if people don't want to use the Mac, that's fine. Let them puke. Every time Windows does something that I think is stupid, I want to puke but I don't. I just work through it. I have a 17" laptop and a 30" external monitor and I seem to have no problem with it.

Actually Windows doesn't put the menu bar and the windows title bar in the same space. There's the title bar, the control box and the min/max buttons. Below that is the menu bar. Below that is the Ribbon (if using Office).

AidenShaw

Mar 27, 2009, 10:49 AM

Wow. I don't think any of this would make me cry but aren't you a wee bit defensive?

Let's see. No one says you can't maximize a screen. Drag it to full screen. Or should we have 4 buttons. Is maximize the Mac max or the Windows max? If it's added, it wouldn't hurt my feelings. You said you wanted maximize like Windows as opposed to the Mac version. So, your version of a dictatorship is different how? :) And a window (Mac, Windows or Linux) can take up the exact amount of space that a user wants. Just resize it. I do wish the Mac allowed resizing using any edge/corner of the window but I still prefer the Mac's maximize philosophy.

Actually a single menu bar is a better UI than a menu bar for each app. Talk about wasted space. Also, muscle memory. I know I can throw my mouse to the top of the screen and always hit the menu bar. I don't have to pay close attention to "which" menu bar I'm choosing (oops clicked the wrong app because I don't have everything maximized and can see multiple apps at once :) ). And if people don't want to use the Mac, that's fine. Let them puke. Every time Windows does something that I think is stupid, I want to puke but I don't. I just work through it. I have a 17" laptop and a 30" external monitor and I seem to have no problem with it.

Actually Windows doesn't put the menu bar and the windows title bar in the same space. There's the title bar, the control box and the min/max buttons. Below that is the menu bar. Below that is the Ribbon (if using Office).

Too bad that you're not using Windows 7 in this discussion....

There are many improvements in Windows 7 in navigation between windows and apps - and much of what is being discussed is no longer true (e.g. many apps hide the menu bar by default - a tap on <Alt> makes it appear).

volfreak

Mar 27, 2009, 10:55 AM

Too bad that you're not using Windows 7 in this discussion....

There are many improvements in Windows 7 in navigation between windows and apps - and much of what is being discussed is no longer true (e.g. many apps hide the menu bar - a tap on <Alt> makes it appear).

I've started playing with it some since the Beta was released. It has some nice things in it though there's still some things I don't like. I'm nowhere near as experienced in it as I am in Win2K, XP, 2003 server. But it will definitely get into the conversation.

Anuba

Mar 27, 2009, 11:09 AM

Wow. I don't think any of this would make me cry but aren't you a wee bit defensive?

Let's see. No one says you can't maximize a screen. Drag it to full screen.
You mean as in drag the window up to the left corner, then go down to the right corner and yank the resize handle until the window fills up the screen? Sure, but that's like 10 times more cumbersome than clicking a single button, or dragging the title bar to the top of the screen like in Windows 7.

Or should we have 4 buttons. Is maximize the Mac max or the Windows max? If it's added, it wouldn't hurt my feelings. You said you wanted maximize like Windows as opposed to the Mac version. So, your version of a dictatorship is different how? :)
Umm.... no, I said I want it next to the Mac version. If by Mac version you mean the weird "+" button that sometimes resizes the window to fit the contents, sometimes not. Then you can click the green button and I can click the new purple or blue one. ;)

And a window (Mac, Windows or Linux) can take up the exact amount of space that a user wants. Just resize it. I do wish the Mac allowed resizing using any edge/corner of the window but I still prefer the Mac's maximize philosophy.
Well, my philosophy is that my clients pay me for actual creative work, not for moving and resizing windows all day, so I feel that changes to a workspace layout should be something that happens in an instant, preferably with a single click. Getting the exact layout you want is cumbersome on a Mac.

Actually a single menu bar is a better UI than a menu bar for each app. Talk about wasted space. Also, muscle memory. I know I can throw my mouse to the top of the screen and always hit the menu bar. I don't have to pay close attention to "which" menu bar I'm choosing (oops clicked the wrong app because I don't have everything maximized and can see multiple apps at once :) ).
Well, it goes both ways. My muscle memory is programmed to aim for the upper left corner of the window I'm working in, I don't see how you could accidentally end up trying to click the menu of a completely different window. That's much more likely to happen on a Mac, since the menu bar is context sensitive. One accidental click along the way and the menu bar you were heading for suddenly belongs to Finder, not the app you were working in.

Just looking at it logically without any bias toward one platform or the other, I feel that there's something fundamentally wrong about one part of the application being entirely separated from its actual window. If you have two 30" screens and you have some tiny instant messaging application window down in the right corner of the right screen, does it really make sense to you that any part of that application's UI is up in the left corner of the left screen? Try to think past your muscle memory now - does it make sense?

The Mac's menu bar was conceived in an age when dual or quad-screen setups were a distant pipe dream, when Macs had 9" screens and every pixel mattered. I had a similar menu bar on my Atari ST (=Mac ripoff) back in 1990 and it made perfect sense on my b/w 12" screen. But it makes zero sense today.

Actually Windows doesn't put the menu bar and the windows title bar in the same space. There's the title bar, the control box and the min/max buttons. Below that is the menu bar. Below that is the Ribbon (if using Office).
Well, it's not so much a question of where Windows puts things, the application developers decide where things go (within reasonable adherence to the UI guidelines, of course). IE has no menu by default... neither does WMP... or Safari 4... Adobe CS4 puts the menu on the title bar... but wherever it ends up, it's within the rectangular area where the rest of the app is, not on another planet at the top of the screen.

volfreak

Mar 27, 2009, 01:10 PM

You mean as in drag the window up to the left corner, then go down to the right corner and yank the resize handle until the window fills up the screen? Sure, but that's like 10 times more cumbersome than clicking a single button, or dragging the title bar to the top of the screen like in Windows 7.

Umm.... no, I said I want it next to the Mac version. If by Mac version you mean the weird "+" button that sometimes resizes the window to fit the contents, sometimes not. Then you can click the green button and I can click the new purple or blue one. ;)

I guess I misunderstood your solution. If it's in addition to instead of, I wouldn't complain at all. :)

Well, my philosophy is that my clients pay me for actual creative work, not for moving and resizing windows all day, so I feel that changes to a workspace layout should be something that happens in an instant, preferably with a single click. Getting the exact layout you want is cumbersome on a Mac.

I typically don't resize my windows. I get them to the size I want and that's where they stay. So, to me, I spend the time doing the creative work. And with Spaces, there's even less screen resizing needed. I'll agree getting the layout can be more difficult at times. Other times, I find it more convenient. If the Mac had the resize on all sides/corners, that would help a lot.

Well, it goes both ways. My muscle memory is programmed to aim for the upper left corner of the window I'm working in, I don't see how you could accidentally end up trying to click the menu of a completely different window. That's much more likely to happen on a Mac, since the menu bar is context sensitive. One accidental click along the way and the menu bar you were heading for suddenly belongs to Finder, not the app you were working in.

That's true but I found that I've learned to not click until I hit the menu bar. I see people clicking the wrong menu bar frequently if they don't have the apps maximized (which is usually the case). One looks from upper left and then comes down the screen and there's the File menu. One has to train themselves to look for the active window title bar.

Just looking at it logically without any bias toward one platform or the other, I feel that there's something fundamentally wrong about one part of the application being entirely separated from its actual window. If you have two 30" screens and you have some tiny instant messaging application window down in the right corner of the right screen, does it really make sense to you that any part of that application's UI is up in the left corner of the left screen? Try to think past your muscle memory now - does it make sense?

It does make sense to me. Again, one location for the menu bar, easy quick access, I find. If the menu bar was the only way to get some functionality, then it would be different, but with keyboard shortcuts and mouse clicks, I find the need to go to the menu bar less on the Mac than on Windows. The cmd-key location helps since the thumb can use it without moving the hand as opposed to the ctrl key in Windows. It's easy to Cmd-C, Cmd-N, Cmd-V, Cmd-S and type so I don't have to use the menu bar as much. In windows not everything that's on a shortcut menu is available in the main menu so it's a bit different in what one can do with keyboard shortcuts.

The Mac's menu bar was conceived in an age when dual or quad-screen setups were a distant pipe dream, when Macs had 9" screens and every pixel mattered. I had a similar menu bar on my Atari ST (=Mac ripoff) back in 1990 and it made perfect sense on my b/w 12" screen. But it makes zero sense today.

Well, it's not so much a question of where Windows puts things, the application developers decide where things go (within reasonable adherence to the UI guidelines, of course). IE has no menu by default... neither does WMP... or Safari 4... Adobe CS4 puts the menu on the title bar... but wherever it ends up, it's within the rectangular area where the rest of the app is, not on another planet at the top of the screen.

Agreed and competition between the OS keeps making each one better. I spend probably half or more of my working day in Windows (usually in virtualized or remote (more so) settings) and the other half in OS X and away from work in OS X. I like that Windows 7 is looking to be much better than Vista; it'll keep making OS X better and I'm looking forward to Snow Leopard with its improvements.

Cheers

mikeinternet

Mar 27, 2009, 05:58 PM

Man, the OS X menu font is heee-uge when you see them side-by-side like that, looks like some sort of accessibility mode for the visually impaired...

Good point. But, isn't that wasted space to the right of the menus in the pc version?

yossim

Mar 27, 2009, 06:06 PM

"Yes, and that's one of the main reasons why some people puke all over Mac and would never switch to one."

It almost sounds like you're being a little disloyal to Apple. Do you prefer Microsoft?

Anuba

Mar 27, 2009, 07:11 PM

"Yes, and that's one of the main reasons why some people puke all over Mac and would never switch to one."

It almost sounds like you're being a little disloyal to Apple. Do you prefer Microsoft?
Umm... Why would I be loyal to any given company, unless I work for it?

Is there some oath of loyalty to the Church of Apple that members are forbidden to break?

yossim

Mar 27, 2009, 07:29 PM

I don't know. I guess I thought that in a mac forum people would be at least mostly partial toward Apple.

-gasp-:eek: you aren't a member!?:p

but seriously, which os do you prefer?

Eric S.

Mar 27, 2009, 07:42 PM

I like aqua. Guess I'm stupid or something.

That makes two of us. I hate the current iTunes look.

yossim

Mar 27, 2009, 07:43 PM

that makes at least three of us.:)

decksnap

Mar 27, 2009, 07:54 PM

that makes at least three of us.:)

I far prefer aqua to the dirty bluish scrollbars in iTunes. These look far more dated to me than aqua.

kabunaru

Mar 27, 2009, 08:00 PM

I far prefer aqua to the dirty bluish scrollbars in iTunes. These look far more dated to me than aqua.

What about CoverFlow scrollbars, buttons and black glossy theme for the whole system?

yossim

Mar 27, 2009, 08:06 PM

What about CoverFlow scrollbars, buttons and black glossy theme for the whole system?

Naa, that doesn't really appeal to me.

It reminds me to much of vista.

WeegieMac

Mar 27, 2009, 08:25 PM

Techguy172

Mar 27, 2009, 09:02 PM

Am I missing something here?

I've opened Safari, iTunes, iPhoto, iWeb, and iMovie (all 09) and the style and colour of each window is identical in design and colour. Where is this "black" style that someone mentioned, along the lines of the mock up with Ratatouille?

Everything seems to be the "uniform" across the board on Apple programs on my iMac.

Look at the scroll bars and the new Music interface in iTunes and you'll get what they mean.

To be honest I want something else than what iTunes is using. Something new and NOT shiny black.

kabunaru

Mar 27, 2009, 10:04 PM

Where is this "black" style that someone mentioned,

CoverFlow

TheAshMan

Mar 27, 2009, 11:31 PM

That makes two of us. I hate the current iTunes look.
Here, here, I very much agree. Once in a while I confuse it and the Finder. Some applications even follow the same design.

kabunaru

Mar 28, 2009, 12:15 AM

Apple should make both UIs available (as option) in Snow Leopard to satisfy both camps.

MikeTheC

Mar 28, 2009, 12:35 AM

@ Anuba:

I understand where you're coming from. To be honest, I've never really been a fan of Microsoft's UI "design ethic", although there have been a few exceptions along the way.

While I know it's just about the same thing, I actually prefer Gnome's execution of the "menubar within the window" concept better than Microsoft's. Honestly, I don't know if I can explain why. I'm thinking it has to do with how Gnome is generally very Mac OS 9-like in overall nature, so perhaps it's just the blend of something I'm familiar with (and like) and one of Microsoft's (fairly few) "good" ideas.

Now if only Compiz could be made to work in Aqua...

kockgunner

Mar 28, 2009, 02:41 AM

The way I could see it set up is when you get the mouse close to the side of the window the scroll bar appears. Not that complicated honestly...

But what would be the point of a scroll wheel if you're just going to move the mouse to the side of the screen anyway?

Eric S.

Mar 28, 2009, 10:45 AM

Apple should make both UIs available (as option) in Snow Leopard to satisfy both camps.

Good idea.

friedmud

Mar 28, 2009, 01:23 PM

It's simply not practical. Sure you're buying into oh it looks cool, but that has nothing to do with practicality.

I've never seen anyone use cover flow when they were legitimately looking for a specific thing. EVER.

This is a reply to an old post in the thread but I just wanted to chime in that I find Coverflow in Finder useful... sometimes. Sure... no one in their right might would use it as the default way to browse files.. but, specifically when I'm looking through lots of images that aren't named well (like lots of simulation results).

I don't find it all that useful for looking through documents though (well... powerpoint slides can sometimes work since it shows the title slide)... but that doesn't mean it's not a useful feature. Specifically, there is nothing wrong with having Coverflow available....

Friedmud

nick9191

Mar 29, 2009, 11:45 AM

Change. The Aqua look has been here since 10.0 in 2001.

But its change for the worse.

Like the new MacBook Pro vs. the classic (15" only, the new 17" looks gorgeous).

techfreak85

Mar 29, 2009, 12:50 PM

am i the only one that thinks that "aqua" dosn't remind me of a refreshing water ui? i wish apple would go "true aqua". make the ui actually look nice. look like there were actually water used in the ui. like the buttons look more like real drops of water. make it so i first see it and think, "that reminds me of aqua!"
now that would be major eye candy.

huh?:D

Ridly

Mar 29, 2009, 07:39 PM

I would rather it have a marble madness interface.

Mr. Wonderful

Mar 29, 2009, 10:16 PM

This is a reply to an old post in the thread but I just wanted to chime in that I find Coverflow in Finder useful... sometimes. Sure... no one in their right might would use it as the default way to browse files.. but, specifically when I'm looking through lots of images that aren't named well (like lots of simulation results).

I don't find it all that useful for looking through documents though (well... powerpoint slides can sometimes work since it shows the title slide)... but that doesn't mean it's not a useful feature. Specifically, there is nothing wrong with having Coverflow available....

Friedmud
I agree. For most uses, Coverflow sucks. But then on the other hand, using Coverflow to browse my Safari 4 History is a good aid.

FerdiV

Mar 31, 2009, 08:01 AM

SpinThis!

Mar 31, 2009, 11:07 AM

The Mac's menu bar was conceived in an age when dual or quad-screen setups were a distant pipe dream, when Macs had 9" screens and every pixel mattered.

My muscle memory is programmed to aim for the upper left corner of the window I'm working in
Oh boy, another armchair usability expert. There's no "muscle memory" if you have windows scattered all over your screen and you have to slow down your mouse movement before you hit your target (the application's Windows). It's a lot easier for someone to just throw their mouse up to the top of the screen and the mouse will stop even if you have a multiple screens.

If you have access to dual monitor setup, try this experiment... setup your dual screens so your secondary display is right on top of the primary one so they're stacked. Then go for the menubar—I bet you miss it every time. That's what Windows is like but far worse. Anyone who says they have muscle memory for Windows is fooling themselves. Tog (http://www.asktog.com/columns/022DesignedToGiveFitts.html) tested that theory and accessing Mac's menubar is 5 times faster than Windows.