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arn
Jun 23, 2002, 07:58 AM
This AsiaBizTech article (http://www.nikkeibp.asiabiztech.com/wcs/leaf?CID=onair/asabt/moren/192188) discusses Apple's use of Taiwan for outsourcing products, including production of the eMac and Powerbooks. They also revive Apple PDA rumors with this comment:

Separately, Apple is seeking production of personal digital assistants (PDAs) and some computer peripherals, such as its wireless communications access points, namely airports, in Taiwan.

Edge100
Jun 23, 2002, 08:31 AM
...oh gawd, not again!

King Cobra
Jun 23, 2002, 09:01 AM
I think that it's great that we are going to see newer iMacs and eMacs, since they would most likely be much faster.

I also noticed that the article refered to the display of the eMac as a flat CDT, not a flat CRT. Just pointing that out.

As for the PDA rumor, eye, you might want to switch to heavy medication to get you through the day! :D

damon
Jun 23, 2002, 10:13 AM
See, now, this is interesting. There's a collective sigh every time this rumor comes around, and of course the vibe from Apple is "Great, they're buying it... suckers!" But here's the thing. If Apple truly did release a sleak PDA, with their OS, that worked seamlessly with their products, wouldn't each and everyone of us take a serious look at it? I, for one, would be thrilled to move beyond MS lackluster support for the Palm conduit. Pipe dreams? Maybe. But I loved my Newton and... well... I think it'd be like coming home again.

irmongoose
Jun 23, 2002, 10:27 AM
Originally posted by damon
See, now, this is interesting. There's a collective sigh every time this rumor comes around, and of course the vibe from Apple is "Great, they're buying it... suckers!" But here's the thing. If Apple truly did release a sleak PDA, with their OS, that worked seamlessly with their products, wouldn't each and everyone of us take a serious look at it? I, for one, would be thrilled to move beyond MS lackluster support for the Palm conduit. Pipe dreams? Maybe. But I loved my Newton and... well... I think it'd be like coming home again.

:eek: eeeps! Mr. Damon! Do you know what you just did? You have just summoned EYELIKEART.. A MODERATOR.. to a duel! AHHHHH! Help!!! Everybody take cover! Women and children first! AHHHHH!!!!

:p

Okay, to get to the point.. yes, it would be interesting to see the the Newton back.. but do you think it will work? Now? With Palm and the Pocket PC people? Hell, I would buy it... but...



irmongoose

swahilibill
Jun 23, 2002, 10:36 AM
This has really gotton old

jadam
Jun 23, 2002, 10:55 AM
yeah, but GREAT, I just bought a PocketPC and now Apple wants to come out with a PDA... this sux.... But then again, i love my PocketPC...

arn
Jun 23, 2002, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by damon
But here's the thing. If Apple truly did release a sleak PDA, with their OS, that worked seamlessly with their products, wouldn't each and everyone of us take a serious look at it?

Serious look? I would buy it... sight unseen. That's how much I liked my previous Apple PDA (Newton).

I know the Apple PDA rumor is a bit "overdone" - in that it comes up every few months...

but I think it's a sign of the interest in such a device. we'll see. At this point I don't know what the best direction would be for Apple to create a handheld... Palm OS? Proprietary OS?

arn

puffmarvin
Jun 23, 2002, 11:19 AM
http://home.no.net/macosx/Xpalm.mp4

its a straaaaaaange video of someone running what looks like a smaller version of os x through a palm. i dont believe it but i want to see what everyone elses reasons are for it not being real. i see that the harddrive attached to the palm is taped on and seems to be drawing its power from the palm. not possible... right? check it out anyways... you need quicktime 6 though =)

Cappy
Jun 23, 2002, 11:31 AM
I actually think this is Apple's best time to enter the portable device market with something as long as it can show some strengths and differences from the Palm and Pocket PC's. Knowing Apple they could probably do that.

I have to say though that as much as I would like to see what they could offer, I would not purchase one if it can't interoperate with a Windows based system. That is just a fact of life in this day and age unfortunately.

edesignuk
Jun 23, 2002, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by puffmarvin
http://home.no.net/macosx/Xpalm.mp4

its a straaaaaaange video of someone running what looks like a smaller version of os x through a palm. i dont believe it but i want to see what everyone elses reasons are for it not being real. i see that the harddrive attached to the palm is taped on and seems to be drawing its power from the palm. not possible... right? check it out anyways... you need quicktime 6 though =)
Interesting vid, looks real enough, yet somehow I can't quite believe it.
All though I'm sure I saw some photos of this Palm with the HDD attached to the back of it in the spymac gallerys, but I can't seem to find it now :(
If I do I'll post a link to it.

edesignuk
Jun 23, 2002, 11:52 AM
BTW...here is the second part of the video, this demos the navigation of X on the palm.

Get it here (http://home.no.net/macosx/Xpalm2.mp4.sit) (4.37Mb .sit, again it's an mp4 once uncompressed)

edesignuk
Jun 23, 2002, 12:00 PM
Sorry for yet another post, but here's a quick screen snap for those on a 56k that don't want to download 4-15Mb mp4 files.
It does look a little photoshoped in this cap but I can assure you in the vid it looks real.
:confused:

firewire2001
Jun 23, 2002, 12:13 PM
its possible that this guy just taped a drive to his palm, created a video on his computer, then put it on the palm pilot -- there are a few programs out there now that will play vids of yer palm...

however, correct me if im wrong, but i thought that the IIIC (the palm showed off in the video) would only display 16 bit colours -- it looked like the palm in the vid had 32 bit colour...

heres an article about the IIIC -- it says it only displays 16 bit.

http://www.zdnet.com/supercenter/stories/overview/0,12069,193723,00.html

maybe the guy did a mod or sumthing......... it looks so real though...

firewire2001
Jun 23, 2002, 12:17 PM
sorry to post again.. but in the same directory of the video, there is this photo -- the dock in the picture looks real weird -- it would go against the idea of someone actually creating a video off of a real OS X desktop...

http://home.no.net/macosx/PICT0002.jpg

8thDegreeSavage
Jun 23, 2002, 12:18 PM
It looks like a palm III c....if im not mistaken..:confused:

Royal Pineapple
Jun 23, 2002, 12:25 PM
Originally posted by firewire2001
sorry to post again.. but in the same directory of the video, there is this photo -- the dock in the picture looks real weird -- it would go against the idea of someone actually creating a video off of a real OS X desktop...

http://home.no.net/macosx/PICT0002.jpg
not only is he running osX but he is running jaguar, see the iChat icon. so i highly doubt that this guy is just some joe without some access inside apple. thea is if its real:D

edesignuk
Jun 23, 2002, 12:28 PM
Originally posted by Royal Pineapple

not only is he running osX but he is running jaguar, see the iChat icon.
Good observation! I hadn't noticed that. :rolleyes:
I wonder if it could just be possible...:confused:

firewire2001
Jun 23, 2002, 12:38 PM
man, but this guy has to be pretty smart to replace a 16 bit screen with a 32 bit screen AND get it to run OS X...


a 16bit screen is only 256 colours -- and it looked like there were more than that on that screen -- it looked like a 32 bit screen which supports way more coulours -- 1024 colours.

i doubt this is real.. im just wondering how this guy did it at this point...

also, why the heck would apple release a PDA in a Palm encasing :rolleyes:.. overall i think this is just weird - without much significance...

i still honestly think that that spymac video of the iWalk has been the most realistic - though hard to believe...

edesignuk
Jun 23, 2002, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by firewire2001

a 16bit screen is only 256 colours
16-bit is somthin like 65000 colors actually! :p

firewire2001
Jun 23, 2002, 12:49 PM
16-bit is somthin like 65000 colors actually!

oh.. i see :( .. sorry bout that... but anyways, ive seen a IIIC and it clearly doesnt have as many colours as OS X uses.. yet the video looks like it has as many colours as OS X has... im prolly wrong.. hehe.. but just a thought. :o

britboy
Jun 23, 2002, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by 8thDegreeSavage
It looks like a palm III c....if im not mistaken..:confused:


It is indeed a Palm IIIc, a model with a maximum of 8MB RAM. The 'About This Mac' says the PDA has (i think) 36MB RAM. Either i have my facts wrong, or this is just another fake.

How can this be be 'proof' of an Apple PDA? In the vids you can clearly see that the guy has taped a HD to the back of his Palm. That wouldn't even be a first prototype for apple :rolleyes:

Damon~ Yes, there is a "collective sigh" every time this rumour comes around, but the PDA market just isn't profitable enough. Look at Palm and Handsprings' stock: from $60 and $90 respectively in Nov. 2000, they are both in the mid $1 range now. That doesn't sound to me like the healthiest market for apple to be entering.

topicolo
Jun 23, 2002, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by firewire2001
its possible that this guy just taped a drive to his palm, created a video on his computer, then put it on the palm pilot -- there are a few programs out there now that will play vids of yer palm...

however, correct me if im wrong, but i thought that the IIIC (the palm showed off in the video) would only display 16 bit colours -- it looked like the palm in the vid had 32 bit colour...

heres an article about the IIIC -- it says it only displays 16 bit.

http://www.zdnet.com/supercenter/stories/overview/0,12069,193723,00.html

maybe the guy did a mod or sumthing......... it looks so real though...

Actually, the article said that the IIIc displays only 256 colors, which is 8-bit. 16 bit color is 65536 colors.

firewire2001
Jun 23, 2002, 01:03 PM
sorry, what i meant is that it displayed 256 colours and only that.. and that OS X requires a palette of more than 256 colours and that it OS X wouldnt look as good as it does in the video if the palm was truly 256 colours.

jadam
Jun 23, 2002, 01:06 PM
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
thats the most BS ive ever seen. Umm the Palm IIIC is only 18mhz, has a 256color screen(8bit) and THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL YOU COULD HOOK UP A HARD DRIVE TO A PALM IIIC, it has no expansion ports, other than the 115kbs Serial Port. This is definetly a hacked job, not to mention, Palm IIIc's cant play videos, well, they can, but only at like 7fps. So this is complete ************!.

now, if he was running this video ona PocketPC, it would be more believable, Since On PocketPC's you can hook up Toshiba 10gb Hard drives or IBM 1GB Microdrives, and they run @ 206mhz and have 16bit(65,000) color screens. he could of easily have been playing a DivX movie on it, but there is no way in hell. Not to mention, dont you gusy think that interface would be a little TOO cluttered for a PDA?? i mean seriously. OH YEAH!!! DUMB ASSES DID I FORGET TO MENTION, THE PALM IIIC ONLY HAS A 160X160 RESOLUTION. How sharp is the screen in that picture?? it looks like 1024x768 on a 2" screen, now that is COMPLETE BS. You guys just dont know your hardware well enough. BTW, if they could run OSX on that hardware, then they would be still selling Classic Macs, as they have the SAME processors, and probally BETTER video cards.

edesignuk
Jun 23, 2002, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by jadam
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
thats the most BS ive ever seen. Umm the Palm IIIC is only 18mhz, has a 256color screen(8bit) and THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL YOU COULD HOOK UP A HARD DRIVE TO A PALM IIIC, it has no expansion ports, other than the 115kbs Serial Port. This is definetly a hacked job, not to mention, Palm IIIc's cant play videos, well, they can, but only at like 7fps. So this is complete ************!.

now, if he was running this video ona PocketPC, it would be more believable, Since On PocketPC's you can hook up Toshiba 10gb Hard drives or IBM 1GB Microdrives, and they run @ 206mhz and have 16bit(65,000) color screens. he could of easily have been playing a DivX movie on it, but there is no way in hell. Not to mention, dont you gusy think that interface would be a little TOO cluttered for a PDA?? i mean seriously. OH YEAH!!! DUMB ASSES DID I FORGET TO MENTION, THE PALM IIIC ONLY HAS A 160X160 RESOLUTION. How sharp is the screen in that picture?? it looks like 1024x768 on a 2" screen, now that is COMPLETE BS. You guys just dont know your hardware well enough. BTW, if they could run OSX on that hardware, then they would be still selling Classic Macs, as they have the SAME processors, and probally BETTER video cards.

FFS mate, chill!
We don't know our hardware well enough?
I think there are some people here including myself who will have something to say about that little outburst.

We know it is probably a fake, but still it is very impressive.
There is no need for you to slag us all off for talking about it.

mrwalker
Jun 23, 2002, 01:15 PM
The video shows a VNC (Virtual Network Computing) client running on a Palm. VNC servers (free) exist on just about any operating system, and obviously now also on MacOS X. I have been running them myself on both Mac and Windows, with clients on Mac, Windows and Palm.

jadam
Jun 23, 2002, 01:16 PM
maybe i should of changed that to MOST of you dont know your hardware. I know there are some very technical savvy people here. Like AlphaTech. hehe.

topicolo
Jun 23, 2002, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by jadam
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
thats the most BS ive ever seen. Umm the Palm IIIC is only 18mhz, has a 256color screen(8bit) and THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL YOU COULD HOOK UP A HARD DRIVE TO A PALM IIIC, it has no expansion ports, other than the 115kbs Serial Port. This is definetly a hacked job, not to mention, Palm IIIc's cant play videos, well, they can, but only at like 7fps. So this is complete ************!.

now, if he was running this video ona PocketPC, it would be more believable, Since On PocketPC's you can hook up Toshiba 10gb Hard drives or IBM 1GB Microdrives, and they run @ 206mhz and have 16bit(65,000) color screens. he could of easily have been playing a DivX movie on it, but there is no way in hell. Not to mention, dont you gusy think that interface would be a little TOO cluttered for a PDA?? i mean seriously. OH YEAH!!! DUMB ASSES DID I FORGET TO MENTION, THE PALM IIIC ONLY HAS A 160X160 RESOLUTION. How sharp is the screen in that picture?? it looks like 1024x768 on a 2" screen, now that is COMPLETE BS. You guys just dont know your hardware well enough. BTW, if they could run OSX on that hardware, then they would be still selling Classic Macs, as they have the SAME processors, and probally BETTER video cards.

I agree, there's no way in hell that Mac OS X will run on a 68k based dragonball, but have you considered the possibility that that isn't a dragonball running in the palm? The guy could have a g3 rigged up underneath that IIIc case. I think it IS possible to mod an apple mobo to fit in one of those cases and it's extremely hard to face something like that. I mean, the guy was picking up and moving the device around.

jadam
Jun 23, 2002, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by mrwalker
The video shows a VNC (Virtual Network Computing) client running on a Palm. VNC servers (free) exist on just about any operating system, and obviously now also on MacOS X. I have been running them myself on both Mac and Windows, with clients on Mac, Windows and Palm.
and tell me, how are you going to connect to that PC without experiencing severe screen lag?? remember, the Palm IIIc only has a 115kbs serial port. at 115kbs you would experience extreme lag. And notice the resolution in that picture?? is that POSSIBLE on a 160x160 screen?? I think not, not to mention the colors, tooooooo many colors for a 256color screen. Ive used one, and thats just fake. Not to mention, he HOOKED UP A HARD DRIVE?? come on!

michaelyoung
Jun 23, 2002, 01:20 PM
I do visual effects for televison using Final Cut. With some free time I could do that video in Final Cut fairly easily. (the dock could be keyed in as its own layer)

My money is on this as a fake. The way I would do this is:

1.Make a movie using elements of osX
2.Find a shell of the cheapest PDA i could find. (gee he _did_ do that!)
3.Place a cheap LCD through the opening of my PDA shell.
4.Rehearse interaction with on screen icons
5.Set up my camera and record!

As video (and compositing) proliferates we will all get better at calling the fakes. (Like most of us do now with photoshop).

From a purely logical standpoint _look at how much screen real estate is taken up by the navigation bar!!!!!_ apple would never waste that much space on a PDA screen.

jadam
Jun 23, 2002, 01:24 PM
Originally posted by topicolo


I agree, there's no way in hell that Mac OS X will run on a 68k based dragonball, but have you considered the possibility that that isn't a dragonball running in the palm? The guy could have a g3 rigged up underneath that IIIc case. I think it IS possible to mod an apple mobo to fit in one of those cases and it's extremely hard to face something like that. I mean, the guy was picking up and moving the device around.
then why didnt he just use a brand new device then:?? I seriously dont know of ANY screens that are capable of those resolutions on such a small area. Why didnt he just use a pocketpc then?? I mean seriously, wait 1 week, when i get my Mac, and ill make a video of my PocketPC running VNC with my Mac over 802.11b and clame its a brand new Apple PDA. and seriously... u have to remember, Mac OS X ONLY runs on Apple certified hardware. If he did hook up a G3, where did he get his Video card from?? how about RAM?? this guy just did a good photoshop job

Draft
Jun 23, 2002, 01:26 PM
If this is real, that's amazing! Even if it's not, I want one!

Draft

jadam
Jun 23, 2002, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by michaelyoung
I do visual effects for televison using Final Cut. With some free time I could do that video in Final Cut fairly easily. (the dock could be keyed in as its own layer)

My money is on this as a fake. The way I would do this is:

1.Make a movie using elements of osX
2.Find a shell of the cheapest PDA i could find. (gee he _did_ do that!)
3.Place a cheap LCD through the opening of my PDA shell.
4.Rehearse interaction with on screen icons
5.Set up my camera and record!

As video (and compositing) proliferates we will all get better at calling the fakes. (Like most of us do now with photoshop).

From a purely logical standpoint _look at how much screen real estate is taken up by the navigation bar!!!!!_ apple would never waste that much space on a PDA screen. and exactly, WHY WOULD APPLE USE UP THAT MUCH SPACE ON A PDA?? they want to make a good PDA not some BS.. To tell you the truth, i liked that old Apple iWalk Video from SpyMac, it looked authentic, but we know it was fake. But at least that video made up a brand new GUI.

theranch
Jun 23, 2002, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by jadam
and exactly, WHY WOULD APPLE USE UP THAT MUCH SPACE ON A PDA?? they want to make a good PDA not some BS.. To tell you the truth, i liked that old Apple iWalk Video from SpyMac, it looked authentic, but we know it was fake. But at least that video made up a brand new GUI.

I don't think that Apple would make the PDA like this...I think the video is to just show the OS and it capabilities. Did anyone notice the dock icons...do they look a little different? http://home.no.net/macosx/PICT0002.jpg You can see the icons in that link to the pic. These videos look more real than the iwalk ones...those were really bad. This could be a fake PDA OS but it looks alot better than the iwalk videos.

after edit...
I watched the video double sized again you can see the glow of the screen on the stylus and his hand when he writes near the end of the first video. There is glare on the screen also and you can see the red recording light of his camera.
If it is a video it is running from the HD.
It has certainly peaked my interest but I know that we all got fed up with the iwalk/pda posts.

puffmarvin
Jun 23, 2002, 01:49 PM
here is a challenge to jadam and all the others who claim this is so easy to do:

i challenge you to make a 'fake' video that is the exact same as this or better if it so easy to do:eek: . of course we will have to wait a week until you get your mac but once you do, it should be rather simple, no?

yes i believe it is fake.
no i dont think it is as easy as some think it is.
no i have no idea how this person did these videos.
yes its interesting, etc etc etc.

if you all notice, during the startup it says "starting apache, checking for missed tasks, etc." i doubt this would be on a pda... am i wrong?

michaelyoung
Jun 23, 2002, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by theranch


Did anyone notice the dock icons...do they look a little different? [

maybe because the dock is the only part of the interface that needed to be completely faked and repositioned...

theranch
Jun 23, 2002, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by michaelyoung


maybe because the dock is the only part of the interface that needed to be completely faked and repositioned...

They're positioned properly...they do pop up on startup also but the person in the video doesn't use them. That is what I'd like to see.

michaelyoung
Jun 23, 2002, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by theranch


They're positioned properly...they do pop up on startup also but the person in the video doesn't use them. That is what I'd like to see.

sorry, here's what i mean.

the video of the os could be shot/captured as one layer.
the video of the dock coming in could be keyed in as on separate layer.
the position is fine what i was saying is that you would have to create a nother layer and move it into positon then key it in to look like a real dock

the fact that the dock is not interacted with confirms (to me) the fact that this is a fake layer....

if i had time to do this i would believe me..it would be fun to see how good i could make it...it would take me a couple of days im sure..

beatle888
Jun 23, 2002, 02:07 PM
in my opinion, just look at the interface.
Apple would taylor the interface to the
device and this has not been done.
The interface just looks scaled down
in size to fit the screen. I doubt that
Apple would take such a wham bam
thank you ma'm approach.

theranch
Jun 23, 2002, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by michaelyoung


sorry, here's what i mean.

the video of the os could be shot/captured as one layer.
the video of the dock coming in could be keyed in as on separate layer.
the position is fine what i was saying is that you would have to create a nother layer and move it into positon then key it in to look like a real dock

the fact that the dock is not interacted with confirms (to me) the fact that this is a fake layer....

if i had time to do this i would believe me..it would be fun to see how good i could make it...it would take me a couple of days im sure..

I hear ya...I'm sure that you could do this. I agree... and the fact that he doesn't interact with the doc? He winds up opening the terminal program...it looks like there is a terminal icon in the doc..8th from the left. http://home.no.net/macosx/PICT0002.jpg

It could very well be fake but I would be interested in buying one.
At the same time...we already got worn out on the iWalk.

firewire2001
Jun 23, 2002, 02:50 PM
here is a challenge to jadam and all the others who claim this is so easy to do:

i challenge you to make a 'fake' video that is the exact same as this or better if it so easy to do . of course we will have to wait a week until you get your mac but once you do, it should be rather simple, no?


yeah.. geeze jadam.. your totally flipping out and being so negative... and gosh, if you think its so easy you outta do that yerself... i mean, even hook up yer stupid pocketpc and do it... how would you make the screen res that size.. its not THAT easy..

hackamacj
Jun 23, 2002, 03:14 PM
Ok, I see where you guys are coming from, Man I wish I had one of these too. But it seems soo fake. Look at the dock, I used tinkertool and some special settings to hide the dock outline, so he could have used it that way. Ok, I am looking at it, the picture I mean, and I am seeing as to how Apple is going to do Wireless Internet on these things. I mean iChat requires some sort of internet connection, as well as Mail, dosen't it? Another thing, would apple seriously put their little "Mac OS X Updates" springy icon next to the trash, wouldn't they take it off just to save space. I mean how many people delete that thing, raise your hands? *Raises Hand* I delete it right off the bat. Plus, are they expecting us to have our music on there, with iTunes and even sherlock, you can't tell me there is that many file on the system that I need to search for "Addresses". Oh, sure, I'll play chess on a 2x2 inch screen, YEAH RIGHT!!!! HELL NO!!! I hardly play chess on my Titanium, let alone a 2x2 inch screen. This stuff is just wasting space, if its real, which I am assuming it isn't. Somebody got a hold of Jaguar, and did a stunt, but GOD KNOWS How Much I want this machine to be a part of my digital hub. Another thing, somebody before, I forgot his name mentioned Palm & Handsprings stock. Those companies are forever going to be a PDA company(s) and Apple has diversified into the world of computers, signaling that they can create PDAs, plus they already had their IPO when the market was successful, meaning that the stock price will hold, or go up.

theranch
Jun 23, 2002, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by hackamacj
Ok, I see where you guys are coming from, Man I wish I had one of these too. But it seems soo fake. Look at the dock, I used tinkertool and some special settings to hide the dock outline, so he could have used it that way. Ok, I am looking at it, the picture I mean, and I am seeing as to how Apple is going to do Wireless Internet on these things. I mean iChat requires some sort of internet connection, as well as Mail, dosen't it? Another thing, would apple seriously put their little "Mac OS X Updates" springy icon next to the trash, wouldn't they take it off just to save space. I mean how many people delete that thing, raise your hands? *Raises Hand* I delete it right off the bat. Plus, are they expecting us to have our music on there, with iTunes and even sherlock, you can't tell me there is that many file on the system that I need to search for "Addresses". Oh, sure, I'll play chess on a 2x2 inch screen, YEAH RIGHT!!!! HELL NO!!! I hardly play chess on my Titanium, let alone a 2x2 inch screen. This stuff is just wasting space, if its real, which I am assuming it isn't. Somebody got a hold of Jaguar, and did a stunt, but GOD KNOWS How Much I want this machine to be a part of my digital hub. Another thing, somebody before, I forgot his name mentioned Palm & Handsprings stock. Those companies are forever going to be a PDA company(s) and Apple has diversified into the world of computers, signaling that they can create PDAs, plus they already had their IPO when the market was successful, meaning that the stock price will hold, or go up.

Good points...and I never use chess and wouldn't on a PDA...

elgruga
Jun 23, 2002, 04:05 PM
Apple PDA rumor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My sunday quiet has been shattered!

Is the iWalk really coming? The return of the Newton, kind-of, but better?

The evidence mounts: that inkwell software thing, this announcement, the perfect completion of the "digital hub".......

Profits? Well the ipod is doing ok for Apple. If they charge $500 USD and up (and they will) for this new PDA, it should be enough to generate profits.
Apple isnt a PDA co., so they dont have the same profitability problems that Palm etc. do.

And we all know that when they make this PDA, it will be better than any other PDA ever made.

I believe this rumor, I feel certain that this is a smart move for Apple, and I WILL buy one.

Hell, I have bought everything else they ever made......(well except for the TAM and the cube - I do have limits)

clonenode
Jun 23, 2002, 04:42 PM
This thing is missing one key factor: the Apple asthetic. Look how big the GUI elements appear. There's now way the red, yellow and green window buttons would need to bug as big as tey are shown.

There is a lack of elegance here that says: Fake!

boobers
Jun 23, 2002, 04:53 PM
seriously..apple is not going to make anything that looks like a palm..first off i bet anyone 50 bux the new newton will have a horizontal screen..it makes sense..why would they try and cram osx on a vertically positioned screen? They wouldn't! I really hope that the new handheld is somewhere between the tablet and pda rumors in that the screen size is somewhat bigger..so not a palm sized device! perhaps two palms but not one. I'm thinkin 4x5 inch screen.
boobers

kainjow
Jun 23, 2002, 05:13 PM
OK guys, face it. This is a fake. It's obvious just by looking at the GUI. If Apple were to make a PDA it would look more like the iPod's GUI. Also, InkWell is not for a PDA but most likely for a new TiBook or iBook with touch sensitive screen or trackpad or something. That's why it's in OS X. Apple didn't announce just InkWell, they announced InkWell AND Jaguar. If this PDA thingy was real, it wouldn't be running off a hard drive that big and it wouldn't be running on a Palm. Face it, it's fake, you're fake, we're all fake.

Kid Red
Jun 23, 2002, 05:22 PM
Originally posted by kainjow
OK guys, face it. This is a fake. It's obvious just by looking at the GUI. If Apple were to make a PDA it would look more like the iPod's GUI. Also, InkWell is not for a PDA but most likely for a new TiBook or iBook with touch sensitive screen or trackpad or something. That's why it's in OS X. Apple didn't announce just InkWell, they announced InkWell AND Jaguar. If this PDA thingy was real, it wouldn't be running off a hard drive that big and it wouldn't be running on a Palm. Face it, it's fake, you're fake, we're all fake.

Devils Advocate- The PDA IS running Jag-wire.

britboy
Jun 23, 2002, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by hackamacj
Another thing, somebody before, I forgot his name mentioned Palm & Handsprings stock. Those companies are forever going to be a PDA company(s) and Apple has diversified into the world of computers, signaling that they can create PDAs, plus they already had their IPO when the market was successful, meaning that the stock price will hold, or go up.


I wasn't trying to suggest that a forray into the PDA market would cause apples' stock to plummet. What i was meaning to say was that the PDA market is clearly not strong enough to warrant interest from apple. How many people do you know that actually use their PDA (that is, if you know anyone with a PDA. None of my friends/acquaitances do).

You might argue that the market needs a killer PDA, something that would actually be useful and not just an expensive notepad, and that apple *could* create such a device. I don't think that's going to happen though.

Edit: *If* there were to be an apple-branded PDA, i will gladly eat humble-pie. I don't think it's going to be happening in a hurry though.

hackamacj
Jun 23, 2002, 05:55 PM
No, I didn't mean it that way, My impression was that Stock Investors won't run away from Apple like they did with Palm & Handspring. Now, I use my palm every single day, my dad uses his at work, my mom uses hers, we are a wired family, every single one of us has palms and they sync perfectly with the Mac, making it a complete digital hub, but if apple manufactures a PDA, I would definalty buy the palm, unseen, and continue to buy more stock. As you have seen with the iPod, and the new iMac, apple has some killer products, many of whom are designed to look "cool" if people like the iPod, like my mom does, then its just another thing to catapult earnings, thus driving up the stock price, not lowering it like you have said. I don't think the Market needs a "killer PDA" but it needs one that does something and does it good. Most PDAs now store pictures, play movies and make cell phone calls. I just want something that is integrated with my mac, and has the ease of use of a OS X machine. I don't want a Cell Phone, I don't want Wireless Internet, I don't want to play movies, I don't want to store / Take pictures. I think, with the earlier introduction of the Apple Newton, they showed that they can make the product, its just consumers didn't want it then, now with demand for the iPod, iMac, and other products (Powerbook G4) they have something to bundle with it if they want.
I don't expect apple to really release a PDA at the MacWorld conference, but there is hope, thats why this site is here. But just remember, Apple still owns the Newton OS, and newton OS was made to run on the RISC processor. Palm and Most Pocket PC's are going to be on Risc Processors. Is there any chance of Apple updating the Newton OS and letting people have it to run on their palms/ Pocket PC's?

I would be grateful if Steve Jobs even let us take a sneek peak at some of the stuff they are designing, let alone release new products. All I want is something that does what I want it to do. BASIC PDA FUNCTIONS. I don't need to play music, and as I said before, who really does?

clevergirl
Jun 23, 2002, 05:59 PM
Remember the "eMac for everyone" announcement? The other announcement that day was the preview of QuickTime 6 and QuickTime Broadcaster. I gave myself a dope slap for being surprised.

Now I won't be surprised when Apple releases their own PDA and Steve demos it streaming MPEG-4 video and AAC audio.

What would be really cool is if it could broadcast MPEG-4 too.

alm

hackamacj
Jun 23, 2002, 06:04 PM
Originally posted by clevergirl
Remember the "eMac for everyone" announcement? The other announcement that day was the preview of QuickTime 6 and QuickTime Broadcaster. I gave myself a dope slap for being surprised.

Now I won't be surprised when Apple released their own PDA and Steve demos it streaming MPEG-4 video and AAC audio.

What would be really cool is if it could broadcast MPEG-4 too.

alm

Ok, I don't want to sound negative or anything, but this all relates back to a internet connection or something, why wouldn't somebody have a laptop for that. You would also need a scaled down version of the QTSS, and that, being as cool as it could be, would take up space and system resources. What were you expecting? A G3 or G4 Palm device? Thats a long way off, do you know ho much heat these things give off, imagine all of that in your hand, it would have to be one big heatsink.

clevergirl
Jun 23, 2002, 06:16 PM
Re: the pda videos and pictures of http://home.no.net/macosx/: Going by word shape, the icons in the preference panel aren't labeled with the text typically used in Mac OS X. I can make out some of the labels: Device (?), Storage, Communications, QuickTime Player, Interface (?) and Input. Not alphabetical, hmmmm. But, wait! Note the Device icon. Tada, there's the author's conceptualization of the Apple PDA. A cross between a Palm and an iPod.

Notice the software is Apple only. The iChat icon doesn't include AOL's running figure. And the Applications menu doesn't include Acrobat Reader or Internet Explorer. I point this out because it's possible that someone else wrote the software. Why take so much care to keep the software Apple-only and then demo using a Palm facade?

alm

scott_meinzer
Jun 23, 2002, 06:29 PM
man you guys are all so quick to judge this is a post from spycam from months ago this guy hacked his palm and put in a g4 and stuff(if you believe him)(links below) and he posted a pic of the hd on the back of the palm on spymac, and the a pic with os x(links below) this is not apple's anything it's just somone with a normal version of os x(screen size problem in pics) on his pda, so the screen isn't scaled correctly and it look like a palm because it is a hacked palm not for apple.

Urls:
they were on spy mac but were deleted i think, i am still looking

but basically there was a pic with the hard drive hack it the back of the palm (connected via serial port) and other pic of it runing os x

/Scott

P.S. try and get the facts

Royal Pineapple
Jun 23, 2002, 06:36 PM
Originally posted by clevergirl
Re: the pda videos and pictures of http://home.no.net/macosx/: Going by word shape, the icons in the preference panel aren't labeled with the text typically used in Mac OS X. I can make out some of the labels: Device (?), Storage, Communications, QuickTime Player, Interface (?) and Input. Not alphabetical, hmmmm. But, wait! Note the Device icon. Tada, there's the author's conceptualization of the Apple PDA. A cross between a Palm and an iPod.

Notice the software is Apple only. The iChat icon doesn't include AOL's running figure. And the Applications menu doesn't include Acrobat Reader or Internet Explorer. I point this out because it's possible that someone else wrote the software. Why take so much care to keep the software Apple-only and then demo using a Palm facade?

alm
wow you are a clever girl;)
good observation, i hadnt notised that.:D

hackamacj
Jun 23, 2002, 06:37 PM
Don't make me start again. As the group said earlier, I didnt' say it but read it. We discussed it to be illogical to run OS X off a serial port unless you seriously ramped up the throughput through the device. as a serial port you can't really do much, thats why theres not an external "commercial" hard drive for the palm, it would cause a buffer over run on the hard drive. Its been proven with CD Writers, if you have a fast burner, but a slow computer, you can't burn at the fast speeds, the computer can't keep up, causing everything to be crap.

clevergirl
Jun 23, 2002, 06:42 PM
Originally posted by hackamacj


Ok, I don't want to sound negative or anything, but this all relates back to a internet connection or something, why wouldn't somebody have a laptop for that. You would also need a scaled down version of the QTSS, and that, being as cool as it could be, would take up space and system resources. What were you expecting? A G3 or G4 Palm device? Thats a long way off, do you know ho much heat these things give off, imagine all of that in your hand, it would have to be one big heatsink.

We're having a little vocabulary disconnect here. I expect a pda device capable of downloading and playing MPEG-4 video like the cell phone demoed during Phil Shiller's QuickTime Live keynote.

http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/qtlive02/

Note I said broadcasting would be nice...a coup in fact. But, no doubt, there are obstacles.

alm

hackamacj
Jun 23, 2002, 07:17 PM
I would expect a device to do that exact thing, but remember if he "Steve Jobs" doesn't introduce Quicktime 6 at MacWorld and then introduces and iPad, or PDA device made by apple, it probably won't have quicktime 6 installed, probably quicktime 5. But you would have to have some sort of internet connection on the PDA device to download this stuff, which would be great but be expensive. What would be great, built in airport connectivity, but you have to remember, battery power matters. With the encoding that you could do for a movie, if you had the space on the PDA you could store the files, its just how to download them, Firewire? Wireless? Ethernet? Modem? How would you do that, I can't really wait, but you have to figure that there will be something. but if it was going to be a 2x2 inch screen, like a palm, you have to figure that you probably WONT wan't to view a movie on that.

gregorypierce
Jun 23, 2002, 07:19 PM
Like an old tired whore this rumor keeps coming back to tempt us even though noone wants it and few would risk believing it because they've been burned so many times.

benjaminpg
Jun 23, 2002, 08:34 PM
Originally posted by Royal Pineapple

not only is he running osX but he is running jaguar, see the iChat icon. so i highly doubt that this guy is just some joe without some access inside apple. thea is if its real:D

In addition, there is a forward button in the finder. Under 10.1.4 there is only a back button. Can anyone verify whether in the current developer release of Jaguar there is a forward button. If not, this is more evidence that this he has some connections with apple.

michaelyoung
Jun 23, 2002, 08:47 PM
Originally posted by benjaminpg


this is more evidence that this he has some connections with apple.


um...hasn't a developers release of jaguar been out for a month or more?

it doesn't seem like anyone would need to be very "connected" to have access to it..

While I believe that apple has a PDA under development I would bet my TiBook that _this_ is not it....!!!


my

clevergirl
Jun 23, 2002, 09:11 PM
Originally posted by hackamacj
With the encoding that you could do for a movie, if you had the space on the PDA you could store the files, its just how to download them, Firewire? Wireless? Ethernet? Modem?


Any new device would be married to Jaguar which we've been told has Q6, Ink and iChat. And look at other features for the new Mac OS: a new address book, handwriting recognition and Sherlock 3 (that went to school on Watson) with maps, yellow pages and airline flight searches. This feature set blatantly supports a PDA release.

But that's just the software. The big question mark, as you point out, is what comm? Probably Firewire and wireless. Maybe even a Bluetooth option?

alm

clevergirl
Jun 23, 2002, 09:15 PM
Originally posted by michaelyoung

While I believe that apple has a PDA under development I would bet my TiBook that _this_ is not it....!!!


I agree...but I'll have to bet my Wallstreet since the Pismo belongs to work.

alm

Royal Pineapple
Jun 23, 2002, 09:27 PM
Originally posted by michaelyoung



um...hasn't a developers release of jaguar been out for a month or more?

it doesn't seem like anyone would need to be very "connected" to have access to it..

While I believe that apple has a PDA under development I would bet my TiBook that _this_ is not it....!!!


my
yea the developer's releice has been out for a wile, i was just mentioning that he must have had some connections with apple.

markseaton
Jun 23, 2002, 09:28 PM
We all know it's coming just face the facts it's what WE want and apple is real good at giving us what we want a PDA!!

Royal Pineapple
Jun 23, 2002, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by markseaton
We all know it's coming just face the facts it's what WE want and apple is real good at giving us what we want a PDA!!
oookkkkkaaaaayyyyy, a little pink happy, mabey. but i aggree apple is real good at giving the public what they want. all we have to do now is wonder, is this what we want?

clevergirl
Jun 23, 2002, 09:43 PM
PC-compatible iPod and iPad?

Imagine Apple saying to Windoz masses, "Thinking of switching? Get the mac 'ease of use' experience for under $500."

Then, you know, the old bait and switch. See, once you tempt them into the store, so many will walk out with an iMac instead... or, like my hero Dave Haxton, with a Cinema Display and PowerMac.

alm

Cappy
Jun 23, 2002, 09:44 PM
Let us not forget Transmeta as a possible cpu. Unless I missed it in this thread no one has mentioned them so I figure I'd throw a little gas on the fire. ;)

chewbaccapits
Jun 24, 2002, 03:09 AM
WHAT EYE SAYS!...Some of you guys make such a big deal about WHAT EYE is going to say because of a new PDA rumor...*BFD*..I cringe everytime there is a rumor because I hate to see IDIOTS write; "uh-huh...What is eye going to say...errr...He (or she, apparently) is going to have a field day...ERRGH,....duh...*DORKs!*...Get on with the rumor....

MacViolinist
Jun 24, 2002, 04:59 AM
As far as I can tell, Apple has always created products that are un-arguably useful, under any circumstances. The iPod, for example, is useful to anyone who likes to listen to music. It is doubly useful if you happen to like to be able to transport information in large quantities without having to deal with the hassle of floppies or supper floppies, or burning a cd if you only need a few files, etc. In a certain way, I see it as their answer to iOmega's zip drives. but maybe that's stretching it a bit. While their are many good points being raised in favor of an Apple pda, particularly some of clevergirls points, I do not think that a pda, as the current standards for their functionality exist, is un-arguably useful. A case in point: efficient input of information. Ink may well revolutionize handwriting recognition, and I hope that it does, but i do not think that it will be to such a point that will make it more efficient than typing. If you attach a keyboard to a palm or similar device, basically what you have is an underpowered laptop unit withoput enough hard drive space, memory or processing power, and without a reasonable means of internet access. I may well be in the minority here, but to me, a pda is an overpriced toy. It is my opinion that Apple would not ever market anything that could be described as an overpriced toy. Not to mention anything that could be accurately described as underpowered. They already have enough of that type of name calling to deal with. Of course, this is coming from someone that still uses a PowerMac 6500, because it does everything that I want it to (except run OS X). Actually, it is because I am a violinist and I am broke. Go figure. Just a thought.

BlairMALL
Jun 24, 2002, 08:31 AM
See, now, this is interesting. There's a collective sigh every time this rumor comes around, and of course the vibe from Apple is "Great, they're buying it... suckers!" But here's the thing. If Apple truly did release a sleak PDA, with their OS, that worked seamlessly with their products, wouldn't each and everyone of us take a serious look at it? I, for one, would be thrilled to move beyond MS lackluster support for the Palm conduit. Pipe dreams? Maybe. But I loved my Newton and... well... I think it'd be like coming home again.

I thought Damon represented people who "switched" from PC to Apple. Now we discover that he owned a Newton! False Advertising.

sedarby
Jun 24, 2002, 08:59 AM
With Apples current losses in revenue, do they really need to take a chance on a PDA? Is this really a market Apple needs to enter?

I believe the person who did the video should be commended for a superb job of finding a new use for a Palm Pilot.

Time to move on.:rolleyes:

King Cobra
Jun 24, 2002, 09:05 AM
Quite frankly I do not see the need for an Apple PDA. I see Apple as keeping their products as simple as possible. The iPod is an excellent example. Apple simply integrated a portable Hard Drive with a handheld mp3 player. And have you noticed how there have been third party software developers developing all sorts of useful extras? I think that it's saying something, that Apple doesn't want their products to get too complex, but they will allow free (or in some cases, shareware) software add-ons to make the iPod more customizable for each individual user. I mean, what if Apple had all these add-ons on their iPods? Then the word "unique" would basically become obsolete and IMO the iPod would be too complex. Especially since some people don't use some of these features and since probably very few people use ALL of the add-ons for the iPod it wouldn't make sense to include all of this excess material on a product that is simple and will be made simple. I would think that if you make something complex with all of these add-ons you are turning it into a close relative of a Palm PDA or something like that. Just keep everything simple and let each individual user customize the iPod the way he/she wants to.

BTW, chewbaccapits, we only joke around with eye. If you don't like the joke, don't read it. :cool:

clevergirl
Jun 24, 2002, 09:10 AM
Originally posted by BlairMALL
I thought Damon represented people who "switched" from PC to Apple. Now we discover that he owned a Newton! False Advertising.

Ah, but see that's interesting. He owned and worked with PCs but bought a Newton. These small devices are a bit of a Trojan horse. Get in the heads and hearts of PCers.

So the PDA wouldn't necessarily be marketed to the loyal 5% but the on-the-fence wannabes who need a little push to join us.

I don't think an Apple-only PDA would be viable. They would want it to play well with Windoz boxes and that's ANOTHER thing that Apple has promised with Jaguar.

If a PC-compatible iPod comes out, then I'd say a PC-compatible PDA is on its heels (if not the same solution).

alm

CharlesOwens6
Jun 24, 2002, 11:30 AM
How did AsiaBizTech get this information (http://www.nikkeibp.asiabiztech.com/wcs/leaf?CID=onair/asabt/moren/192188)? If it's true its quite a piece of news.

sjs
Jun 24, 2002, 11:31 AM
Sorry if I missed it in an earlier post, but if Apple did construct a pda or upscale iPod, the operating system would not be Jaguar, would it? Rather wouldn't it be miniaturized OS for a miniature device?

To the point: is it possible that Apple could have allocated the software engineers to develop such a product at this time, when they have got their hands full with Jaguar?

edesignuk
Jun 24, 2002, 11:34 AM
huh? :confused:

drastik
Jun 24, 2002, 11:43 AM
sjs has a good point. Unless the PDa would use some type of revamped Newton OS. Of course, for all we know, they could have been developing right along with OSX, or their some miracle that gets a processor cool enough and hard drive small enough to run real x on a tablet device.

evildead
Jun 24, 2002, 11:44 AM
I know that the rumor has been over done. But I know that if Apple came out with a PDA I would grab one up right away. There is demand for such a Apple device, as seen by the amount of talk.

I have been looking at geting the Sharp Zarus for some time and the only thing that has stoped me has been the lack of OS X suport. OS X suport has been slated but not yet. I need a LINUX/UNIX based PDA that I can use as a Terminal and talk to big Servers via the Console/serial port. I think I can do it with the Zarus but I wont buy it untill it has OS X support. If apple came out with a Slim OSX running PDA with a USB port on it and a USB to Serial cable, and a terminal app, I would grab it right up. I hope I dont buy the Zarus and then apple comes out with one.

-evildead

BrandoTheBlue
Jun 24, 2002, 11:47 AM
Maybe its just me... I didn't see anyone else mention it... but as much as I'd love to see a PDA running OSX or at least an Apple branded one that will work well with my Mac, I don't think you'll be catching me buying one if I have to wait almost 2 minutes for the darn thing to start up... Doesn't sound to tempting when the point is to have quick info right at your fingertips...

Oh yeah, hey all!

Brando

hackamacj
Jun 24, 2002, 11:51 AM
Ok, I have returned. The only problem with the comment above is that you can run OS X as any other Linux operating system for that matter, off of a Flash Card. A friend of mine is putting a linux box in his car, as a DVD player, wifi internet connection and the media hub of his car, sorry its not a Apple box, but still, he plans on running it off of flash, which is fesiable, giving the fact that you don't have to wait for it to start up, you just wait for the drive to power on.

gandalf55
Jun 24, 2002, 12:05 PM
brando hit it on the head... pda's have short battery lives... granted the iPod has 10hrs - but it doesnt do a whole lot. now, something that takes a few mins to boot up won't cut it. it has to be instant-on. or nearly.

hackamacj
Jun 24, 2002, 12:10 PM
I do believe that none of you read the latest posts, I have answered that one before, dont make me explain it again..

sjs
Jun 24, 2002, 12:40 PM
I am saying that pda's don't use full blown operating systems (at least they haven't up until now). For example, a pocket pc doesn't use Windows...it uses Windows CE.

So what I was asking is: is it possible that Apple software engineers have had the free time to develop such an OS?
Seems doubtful...but Apple love to surprise us.


BTW, the more people on this forum are certain that Apple would "never do a pda" the more certain I become that they will.
But surely it will look and act like nothing that has gone before.

cjerens
Jun 24, 2002, 12:44 PM
so what's the verdict? Is the video fake or what? If so, how was it done? I don't think that the 16 bit vs 8 bit color idea is very valid because a) The amount of colors OS X needs could have been lowered so it looks ok on an 8-bit display b) the display very well could have been replaced...who knows what kind of hacking job was done to the thing. The same goes for the processor. Obviously, the pokey processor that comes standard in the IIIc could never run even a slimmed down version of OS X, so maybe the processor was swapped out too? Maybe the Palm IIIc was only used as the bare bones for this beast?

Or, if it's fake, please tell me convincingly why. I can't figure it out myself yet.

-Cameron

backspinner
Jun 24, 2002, 12:59 PM
It sure is fake, but well done! The resolution of the screen is very low, and the color depth as well; don't let you fool by the idea that it is the mp4 compression what you see. Certain details are very sharp on the video, but not the screen stuff. What you see is the PowerMac on the background linked somehow to the display and touchscreen of an old PDA.

You can see the PowerMac with a lcd monitor on part of the video. And the person who is showing it is very precise to not have us a look at the cable on the bottom of the system. Why is the system only used at the side of the table? Why isn't it moved really through the room? The cable runs from the bottom to the desktop, maybe he configured it as a second external monitor with custom settings.

The harddrive is not the drive the system is running of, but it is spinning (powered) as you can see by the clunky movements in the beginning of the first movie. Still strange the "about this mac" gives so few memory, but that could be a fake application. Afterall there is also no big blue X on that window...

Epimetheus
Jun 24, 2002, 01:02 PM
Looks to me like the hard drive is somehow taped or otherwise secured with plastic to the PIIIC- hardly the work of a skilled apple technician, even if the technology was in its earliest stages.

-Ep.

damon
Jun 24, 2002, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by clevergirl


Ah, but see that's interesting. He owned and worked with PCs but bought a Newton. These small devices are a bit of a Trojan horse. Get in the heads and hearts of PCers.

So the PDA wouldn't necessarily be marketed to the loyal 5% but the on-the-fence wannabes who need a little push to join us.

alm

I think this is an excellent point. Ten years ago, at the time a college UNIX user, I bought the Newton to get my life under control. The form-factor was brilliant and the OS un-toppable. Then I racked up a bunch of credit card debt and had to sell the thing for cash. Oh well.

That said, I don't think this is a great market for Apple to get into if they aren't planning on an OS that is a) compatible with the Newton software that's still floating around out there, b) compatible with the Palm software. There's too much of an existing market to jump into with a new, competing OS. Not that it would be impossible, just not terribly practical.

Someone brought up Stock price earlier and I want to reply to that. Price is no longer an accurate bellweather for product success. Palm has made some mistakes in the management ranks, yet still commands the lion's share of the market space (acknowledged, it's shrinking), even though their stock is through the floor. Today, companies leverage their share value through press and confidence building exercises for the public. It's Jobs' ability to rattle the crowd that gets people investing; whether the individual investors are Mac owners/users is practically irrelevant. Let's talk about the product by it's own merits, rather than some potentially fraudulent video/still floating around the net.

All that said, I'd STILL look seriously at it if they tossed one out there. ;)

Timothy
Jun 24, 2002, 01:49 PM
Those of you who keep giving the mantra that the PDA market is dead, and that Apple wouldn't have any chance in making gains in PDA market share are missing the point of an Apple Branded PDA entirely...

A PDA should not be seen as some standalone part of Apple computer that needs to find it's own way...PDA computing, next to the actual computer itself, is a vital piece of the digital lifestyle. As it currently stands, the Apple platform offers no companionship to those of us who need ultra-portable computing solutions. All of these great things that Apple develops get left in the office or the briefcase when we are on the go.

The question is not whether, on it's own, an Apple PDA would convert the masses to Apple...the point is that an Apple PDA would fill a much needed gap in the digital lifestyle of the existing Apple user base. More and more, a PDA is an expected extension of the desktop experience.

And, for those of you who think that PDA market holds no future...why are all of the PC manufacturers working harder and harder at it? Almost all of them have recently released new models, or are announcing future models. PocketPC is building itself up as a natural extension to Windows.

Apple ignores the ultra-portable market to its own detriment.

sedarby
Jun 24, 2002, 02:00 PM
You may not feel stock price is important but the shareholders certainly will. If they feel that Apple is pursuing a path that is detrimental to their investment they will pull out.

BrandoTheBlue
Jun 24, 2002, 02:11 PM
I understand that it wouldn't be running full-blown OSX like Windows for PocketPC isn't full-blown windows... I'm just going on what I saw in that video... and what I saw was an almost 2-minute boot for any sort of usable screen to come up and that would not be acceptable for a PDA... I'd go buy a DayRunner or something before I started dealing with that...

Brando

antialias
Jun 24, 2002, 04:35 PM
IMHO, this is a fake, and here is why I think so:

the video is in two segments. The Palm IIIc only has 8MB RAM, and this video would have taken more than 8MB ram to play, so the author had to cut his hoax into two segments to avoid showing him loading the second video from his G4.

near the end of the second video, he drags a window, but the dragging motion does not follow his pen. I think it actually jumps ahead sometimes. It is like this with other things as well. Clicks are registered soomer sometimes and later other times.

we never get a clear shot of the bottom of the unit where the business end of the HD connects to the business end of the Palm. I doubt it even does. If this were my hack, it would be one of the main things I would show off instead of twiddling my thumbs waiting for it to start up.

on startup, the screen says "loading L2 Cache". does the Palm IIIc even have L2 cache? Granted, a hacked version of Mac OS X may say it is doing something when it really isn't, but I thought it was worth pointing out.

On the other hand, I have heard of Mac OS X being compiled for 68K processors for experimental purposes, and isn't this what the Palm IIIc has?

There is no way you can differentiate between 256 colors and thousands of colors from this video. In fact, the .jpg that was posted looks like it is in fact running in 256 colors.

Well, I still think it is a fake, but with a little stronger evidence (and better lighting), I would be willing to retract my statement.

damon
Jun 24, 2002, 05:21 PM
Originally posted by sedarby
You may not feel stock price is important but the shareholders certainly will. If they feel that Apple is pursuing a path that is detrimental to their investment they will pull out.

On the contrary: Stock price is critical. What I said was, stock price is no longer a bell weather for product success. I mean, when determining whether a company should take a product to market, what's the potential of that product to meet the needs of the potential consumer base. If an Apple branded PDA has the potential to rally the market in a new direction, shareholders -- and stakeholders -- will see it, whether or not they are already consumers or suppliers of Apple products. That is the power to affect positive change. The market itself is becoming a more and more distant relative of product lines.

puffmarvin
Jun 24, 2002, 05:34 PM
my challenge still stands to those who think it is so easy to make a fake video like this.:o

shaZAMM
Jun 24, 2002, 08:03 PM
I never thought I would make my debut on this forum on a PDA string!!!

I cherish this site a lot (startup page) and was always waiting for one of those serious topics to jump in. So when I saw the rumor topic yesterday, I said "oh no, not again". Today it was still on first place, so I said "o.k. let´s have some laughs, I know what´s comming up". I deffinitely LAUGHED my a$$ off :D, but was amazed how this thread evolved through 4 pages (only skimmed the last two) on "the touchy subject" without any flamewars and with many witty and smart posts.
To make it short: this is a community I want to be in!
You guys made my day (compliment meant seriously).

Eye u deserve a zen masters degree for your stoic reticence (almost 100 posts).

Arn THANX for your great work, and also for having the courage to post the
"oops, I did it again" thread.

shaZAMM

michaelyoung
Jun 24, 2002, 08:38 PM
Originally posted by puffmarvin
my challenge still stands to those who think it is so easy to make a fake video like this.:o

I dont think that anybody has said it was _so_ easy...i know I could do this for sure if a had a few days (unfortunately I am employed right now)...for those familiar video compositing and with access to the equipent this is not very complicated just time consuming...sorry

Cappy
Jun 24, 2002, 08:41 PM
Feel free to flame this but I'll play a form of devil's advocate here. ;)

Has anyone even considered the fact that this is merely something hacked together that is just using the Palm case? I've seen alot of posts here from folks automatically thinking it's a fake because that's a Palm case and the hardware couldn't support it. Well you're right. It's not uncommon though for engineers to have their own pet projects on the side where they hack things together to create their own little toys.

I'm also seeing alot of posts trying to read alot into things to make an attempt to prove that this is a fake. Things like they must be using a an app to fake the memory. C'mon. You have nothing to base that on. In actuality I've yet to see anyone here point anything out that seriously says that this is a fake or not. Now I doubt that it's an Apple product that will be released(fake or not) and I doubt that it's really something that Apple endorsed the creation of. Is it something that an engineer might have hacked together? Very possible but who really knows.

Think about it. Honestly I don't care one way or another if this is real as an Apple product because I think the interface leaves much to be desired. It goes against everything people claim to be a good ui for a handheld. I do care though if someone really did hack this together on their own. I want details if it's real. :)

ibjoshua
Jun 24, 2002, 08:49 PM
I'm constantly amazed at the ability of this forum to get off point.

Originally posted by arn
This AsiaBizTech article (http://www.nikkeibp.asiabiztech.com/wcs/leaf?CID=onair/asabt/moren/192188)[/i]


arn posted a perfectly valid story and most of you went off on some wild goose chase after some fake video.
(Every download I do costs me money and I'm not wasting my time and money looking at these videos after the iWalk ones)

weird. i was hoping to find some comments/verifications but alas.

I would suggest to arn that the next time he starts one of these threads he asks the no one hijacks it with links to poxy videos.

josh

firewire2001
Jun 24, 2002, 08:53 PM
Originally posted by Cappy
Feel free to flame this but I'll play a form of devil's advocate here. ;)

Has anyone even considered the fact that this is merely something hacked together that is just using the Palm case? I've seen alot of posts here from folks automatically thinking it's a fake because that's a Palm case and the hardware couldn't support it. Well you're right. It's not uncommon though for engineers to have their own pet projects on the side where they hack things together to create their own little toys.

I'm also seeing alot of posts trying to read alot into things to make an attempt to prove that this is a fake. Things like they must be using a an app to fake the memory. C'mon. You have nothing to base that on. In actuality I've yet to see anyone here point anything out that seriously says that this is a fake or not. Now I doubt that it's an Apple product that will be released(fake or not) and I doubt that it's really something that Apple endorsed the creation of. Is it something that an engineer might have hacked together? Very possible but who really knows.

Think about it. Honestly I don't care one way or another if this is real as an Apple product because I think the interface leaves much to be desired. It goes against everything people claim to be a good ui for a handheld. I do care though if someone really did hack this together on their own. I want details if it's real. :)

i definately think its possible.. i doubt it though :D ... something like that would be real hard to do...

and on top of it all i think the hard drive taped to the device is one of the weirdest things about it... perhaps if it was a device just hacked together it could support the drive... but it looks pretty weird -- as if the whole thing might be a fake..

AudiA4
Jun 24, 2002, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by evildead
I know that the rumor has been over done. But I know that if Apple came out with a PDA I would grab one up right away. There is demand for such a Apple device, as seen by the amount of talk.

I have been looking at geting the Sharp Zarus for some time and the only thing that has stoped me has been the lack of OS X suport. OS X suport has been slated but not yet. I need a LINUX/UNIX based PDA that I can use as a Terminal and talk to big Servers via the Console/serial port. I think I can do it with the Zarus but I wont buy it untill it has OS X support. If apple came out with a Slim OSX running PDA with a USB port on it and a USB to Serial cable, and a terminal app, I would grab it right up. I hope I dont buy the Zarus and then apple comes out with one.

-evildead

This is curious - is this info you received from Sharp? I just purchased a 3835 iPaq about 3 months ago to replace my Newton 2000 (b/c I think Palm is a joke - no ifs and or buts about it).

PocketMac seems to work okay, but it's third-party. If the Zaurus supported Mac OS X with an OEM application, I might go looking.

Of course, I would pay BIG money for an Apple PDA - b/c as much as many of you laugh about these rumors, we all know it would be the best product around. Actually, the Newton is the best product even today - its just not around (for reasons that are beyond me).

edenwaith
Jun 24, 2002, 10:17 PM
In a more general line of thinking...

My girlfriend received a cheaper Palm Pilot, and I played around with it for a bit. I thought it was kind of interesting how the interface and windows looked a lot like the Mac System 6 interface. Brings back a sort of nostalgic feeling.

It would be interesting if Apple made their own PDA and be compliant with many of the development tools that OS X offers. However, I am quite skepticle of an OS X-like operating system running on such a small device. My girlfriend's Palm only has 8 MB of RAM...bringing back the importance of conserving memory, but then again...it can only run one program at a time, like DOS.

However, my biggest gripe about the Palm was the handwriting recognition. I feel that the computer should adapt to me, not me adapt to how the computer wants me to write!

We'll see...

billiam0878
Jun 24, 2002, 10:36 PM
Originally posted by AudiA4

Actually, the Newton is the best product even today - its just not around (for reasons that are beyond me).

I would say the reason is Steve Jobs. I've done some reading on the subject, and it seems that just as the Newton was becomming (somewhat) profitable Steve axed the project. I think this was because the Newton was Sculley's baby (and not Steve's) so by killing it Jobs was kind of getting the last laugh after having been ousted by Skulley all those years ago. I doubt we will see another Newton-like device anytime soon though I'll keep hoping- I would love to see a PDA running X!


Bill

puffmarvin
Jun 24, 2002, 10:40 PM
Originally posted by michaelyoung


I dont think that anybody has said it was _so_ easy...i know I could do this for sure if a had a few days (unfortunately I am employed right now)...for those familiar video compositing and with access to the equipent this is not very complicated just time consuming...sorry

actually... it has been said. i am the one who posted the link to the video on the first page and then was told by jadam and others that it was not a difficult thing to do and it would be easy for them to duplicate it...sorry

puffmarvin
Jun 24, 2002, 10:42 PM
when you get some free time then michaelyoung feel free to make us this video or something like it.

if anyone out there can make a similar movie it will end this debate on whether the video is real or not. simple enough.

michaelyoung
Jun 24, 2002, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by puffmarvin
when you get some free time then michaelyoung feel free to make us this video or something like it.



Ill be sure to let you know when i have some free time.

BMW
Jun 25, 2002, 01:36 PM
Since we are creating our "perfect" PDA/POD rumor. Here is mine.

I don't want a PDA, I want a iWindow(tm). I want a vnc or rendezvous into my G4 sitting at home. I don't need processor spend in my palm, just a view of my home computer. No need for double apps. I don't want to download my mail, I just want to read it from my home computer. Or view pictures. Update my address book? Just enter it once and it's there at home and on the road. Never sync again!

One problem would be listen to my mp3 collection. I guess you could stream. How about "docking" your portable 10GB drive/iPod! Now Apple can get some synergy from it's other products and without competing with themselves. The iPad and iPod can work together in tandem or apart. I would love to put a vcd movie on my iPod and view it using my iPad.

I would also like to see a iPod boombox docking station and a home/car stereo dock. Maybe bluetooth would be better.

fallt
Jun 26, 2002, 02:57 AM
Dear All,

The video certainly looks good and it's also certainly flared up the age old Apple PDA debate again which is either: exciting or boring [delete where applicable].

For what it's worth, I'd suggest that the screen is an LCD with a higher resolution placed inside a Palm shell running a customised video of OS X. As someone earlier pointed out the Palm in the video is only capable of supporting a 160 x 160 resolution and the resolution on this screen is definitely higher.

If you look at the words in the menus at the top of the screen - 'File Edit View Go 13:54' - they are typeset in Charcoal, one of Apple's system fonts. If you reset the words in PhotoShop and count the number of pixels required to render the menu items alone (i.e. not including the Apple logo and the space on either side of the menu items) it totals 184 pixels, i.e. more than 160 pixels.

Take a look at the attached .gif and see for yourself.

For what it's worth I wouldn't mind an Apple PDA, but then my whole experience of Apple of late has been less-than-savoury to say the least. After five faulty G4 PowerBooks in a row and now one faulty iPod (which is generating the most wonderfully distorted hidden info. screens) I'm not so sure. For pics. of the 'Amazing Crashing PowerBook' (and soon to be uploaded shots of the 'Amazing Crashing iPod'), check here:

http://www.fallt.com/gallery

Best,

Christopher @ Fallt | chris@fallt.com

edesignuk
Jun 26, 2002, 03:03 AM
Originally posted by fallt
For what it's worth I wouldn't mind an Apple PDA, but then my whole experience of Apple of late has been less-than-savoury to say the least. After five faulty G4 PowerBooks in a row and now one faulty iPod (which is generating the most wonderfully distorted hidden info. screens) I'm not so sure. For pics. of the 'Amazing Crashing PowerBook' (and soon to be uploaded shots of the 'Amazing Crashing iPod'), check here:

http://www.fallt.com/gallery

Best,

Christopher @ Fallt | chris@fallt.com
Weird! What is up with that TiBook & it's modem, I just watched the vidz, very odd :eek:
Have you now got a working TiBook?

fallt
Jun 26, 2002, 11:44 AM
Dear All,

After a total five faulty PowerBooks I finally received one that works. Frankly this raises serious doubts - in my mind at least - about Apple's quality assurance. Two or three faulty PowerBooks in a row might be considered bad luck, but five?

What was worse was Apple's extremely laid back approach to the whole issue. My business ground to a halt for the duration of the fiasco and their customer surface throughout was attrocious. To have to wait a total of six months for a repair is frankly ridiculous (and that's with the three year AppleCare plan).

If you think the PowerBook screenshots are weird, wait till you see what I've coaxed from my iPod since it crashed. About thirty-plus screens of extremely lo-res, badly pixelated typography which looks fantastic.

All will be revealed in due course at:

http://www.fallt.com/gallery

We also plan on releasing a screensaver using the beautifully damaged screens that the 'Amazing Crashing PowerBook' generated. If anyone would like a copy of the screensaver, drop me an email at chris@fallt.com

Best,

Christopher

Curiousstrngmint
Jun 26, 2002, 12:55 PM
Hey everyone,

I posted this question a few weeks back and got one answer, but I'm still looking:

What mp3 swap services are available for the mac?

Thanks.

edesignuk
Jun 26, 2002, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by Curiousstrngmint
Hey everyone,

I posted this question a few weeks back and got one answer, but I'm still looking:

What mp3 swap services are available for the mac?

Thanks.
Swap services?? Are you talking about how/where/what to use to download MP3 on the mac?

Curiousstrngmint
Jun 26, 2002, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by verbose101

Swap services?? Are you talking about how/where/what to use to download MP3 on the mac?

Exactly. Swap services, exchange, search, whatever...for example, on the PC, Winmx, Audiogalaxy. You see, I'm about two weeks from buying a computer for college, and I would love to get a powerbook--but if I can't find a way to download music, I don't think I'll be able to rationalize it, especially with the extra $ involved. :-(

The person beforehand recommended Sputnix, which used the Audiogalaxy network. But Audiogalaxy just surrendered to the RIAA, so it's pretty useless now.

edesignuk
Jun 26, 2002, 01:46 PM
Since AudioGalaxy is now dead (isn't it?), for the Mac the simplist thing has to be Limewire.

chewbaccapits
Jun 26, 2002, 02:01 PM
Well.....HOTLINE! or even better KDX (google:KDX) have fun....BTW, did any of you know HL was originally a MAC-BASED p2p service only...It began with mac-heads.....Then the crapdows got a handle of it and polluted it with caca...
I just found that out..Yeah...I'm a tard, but...just felt pretty proud of that tidbit....

Cappy
Jun 27, 2002, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by Curiousstrngmint
Hey everyone,

I posted this question a few weeks back and got one answer, but I'm still looking:

What mp3 swap services are available for the mac?

Thanks.

How about asking in the correct forum and thread? This has nothing to do with Apple PDA rumors.

RickyC
Jun 27, 2002, 01:58 PM
They say that if you’re looking for an arsonist, the first people you should ask are the firemen.

So which one of you lads made the OSX/Palm movie and posted it to Spymac?

Mac o' sex
Jun 27, 2002, 11:00 PM
The iPod is a great product, but it is very limited in what it can do: play music, and maybe some contact stuff... it is just a stepping stone for apple to go to a new platform of computers...you think the scroll wheel could not be used in a PDA ?? that would be something to maybe replace the stylus ? If anyone could pull off a OS that could do it apple can. They give us the iPod to test if we can use or like the interface...we do, they move on the they next in the evolution.

beatle888
Jun 29, 2002, 07:04 AM
iPod PDA...?
Date Tuesday, May 07 @ 06:31:54
Topic iPod General
Just received a curious account from an individual who spottted something rather curious:
"I saw something last week on Friday I thought was pretty interesting after an Apple event in San Jose...There was this guy with an iPod showing it off taking in a voice "command" and then it converted the words into a 'partial' contact. Everything he spoke in to it was converted (I'm guessing like Via Voice) to text.
He was using a headphone set similar to those seen for cell phones, except with two ear pieces. Maybe the iPod REALLY IS Apple's version of a PDA afterall??"
It seems questionable as to whether Apple would add significantly more PDA functionality (we do have Contacts...) to the current iPod form factor. Still, an interesting report (made somewhat more interesting by Apple's mention of the new OS X Inkwell HWR technology, taken from the Newton).

chewbaccapits
Jun 29, 2002, 10:57 PM
what's funny about this whole "HOOPLA" PDA threads and rumors....Is that no matter what BIG Apple event springs up, ANTI-PDA'ers and PDA ZEALOTS will always "anticipate" the down play of... or realization of this rumors...So, even if you believe wholeheartly that no such event will EVER happen....WE (zealots) know in the back of your mind your WAITING for it.....Just my 2¢...BOooWWAAAAAHAHAHAHH!!!!

firewire2001
Jun 30, 2002, 12:14 AM
Originally posted by chewbaccapits
what's funny about this whole "HOOPLA" PDA threads and rumors....Is that no matter what BIG Apple event springs up, ANTI-PDA'ers and PDA ZEALOTS will always "anticipate" the down play of... or realization of this rumors...So, even if you believe wholeheartly that no such event will EVER happen....WE (zealots) know in the back of your mind your WAITING for it.....Just my 2¢...BOooWWAAAAAHAHAHAHH!!!!

um.. that was a weird post :p .. but anyways...

i think if you really went down to it, most people arent actually anticipating a PDA after all this spymac crap, etc... i know i dont..

heh, we should make a poll...