Is Applecare worth it? [Archive]

txnoob

Mar 31, 2009, 02:15 PM

It's even more worth it if you can find a reputable seller on Ebay. Got AppleCare for my mini for over 50% off retail. However if you are eligible for education discounts, that reduces the price direct from apple.

EDIT: Here's a link from seller I bought from

http://cgi.ebay.com/AppleCare-for-iMac-Intel-3-Yr-Protection-Plan-MA520LL-A_W0QQitemZ330318380746QQcmdZViewItemQQptZApple_Desktops?hash=item330318380746&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1308%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

tranceport

Mar 31, 2009, 02:37 PM

It may be worth it to wait til your year is almost up. I gotta phone call from Apple about a month or so after my one year expired on one machine and he sold it to me for $30 less than the original (i think they wanted $169 in the store).

Is it worth it? I have found that in the last, I dunno, 20 years of owning macs that the small price to have phone help has been worth it to me. For the record, I have not had to use it for hardware problems or returns (knock on aluminum).

Jackintosh

Mar 31, 2009, 03:17 PM

It's a bit of a dilemma. I say that because a friend of mine got his Mac fixed for free by Apple even though it was way out of warranty. The rational from Apple was because it was a manufacturing defect that never should have happened.

But nevertheless, it's probably still worth buying Applecare, if at least for peace of mind. For sure it should be from eBay at more than 50% off (I don't know how those eBay sellers can do it or where they get it), or Education discount. I probably wouldn't pay list price and would then rather take the risk.

gasport

Mar 31, 2009, 03:18 PM

It's even more worth it if you can find a reputable seller on Ebay. Got AppleCare for my mini for over 50% off retail. However if you are eligible for education discounts, that reduces the price direct from apple.

How do you know that you are buying a valid copy of AppleCare? Do you just go by the reputation of the seller and their rating?:confused:

mark767

Mar 31, 2009, 03:27 PM

I got it just because the imac is all in one. If the screen goes 18months after purchase you are done.

Mark.

smurfjammer

Mar 31, 2009, 03:32 PM

ADent

Mar 31, 2009, 03:38 PM

Only if it breaks.

My new G4 mini died after about 24 months of use (and I dumped a $50-$75 in parts trying to fix it) and was slightly ticked at losing $600 on a lemon.

My two intel mini's (one refurb, one new from a scam dealer) have eBay Applecare ($50 and $75) just to make sure they live to 3 years uneventfully.

JFreak

Mar 31, 2009, 03:40 PM

iLog.Genius

Mar 31, 2009, 04:09 PM

Generally speaking, yes. Apple really should give 3 year warranty out of the box. It would make the already great products stand out from the crowd. Laptops and other all-in-ones would be safer buys with better warranty, currently only the pro desktop is "built like a tank"

I wouldn't even exclude the PowerMac/Mac Pro. Portables, Mac Mini and iMac are more common, but most people still run into various problems with the "tank" and share the same failures as the "affordable" models: PSU failure (most common from the calls I get), logic board (HDD bays). Mac Pro isn't priced like the consumer models, but they do share the flaws and are common.

rich.smith

Mar 31, 2009, 04:17 PM

Quality of Macs has fallen down

Do you have any hard data to back up this claim?

iLog.Genius

Mar 31, 2009, 04:52 PM

Do you have any hard data to back up this claim?

Can't find the article, but it's been discussed in a lot of tech blogs that Apple's failure rate is pretty bad, so yeah, I think quality has dropped a bit. I'm one of millions of users so it doesn't mean much but it definitely doesn't help apples failure rate that I had to go through 3 MacBook Pro's in less than 2 weeks before landing one that works with no problems/defects.

spcdust

Mar 31, 2009, 05:42 PM

If you buy a Mac through the Education store you get 3 years parts and service warranty included in the price. However, can anyone explain wether, apart from the phone support, how this cover is different to purchased Applecare - do you get a better quality of aftercare if you purchase Applecare or is it pointless purchasing (unless you really require phone support) as the 3 year warranty is already included in the Education price.

rjp

Mar 31, 2009, 05:42 PM

I'm trying to decide on purchasing applecare too. To decide I'd like to know if service parts readily available for macs? I have no problem opening the thing up and would actually enjoy fixing it myself, but only if all the parts are available. Does Apple sell parts to consumers other than the obvious things like batteries, hard drives, and RAM?

If not, what is a good source for repair parts.

I own a macbook pro.

Grimace

Mar 31, 2009, 05:58 PM

wheezy

Mar 31, 2009, 06:10 PM

I like that you can buy Applecare well after buying the product itself, and in some cases even after the warranty expires.

I had an older 20GB iPod that stopped working outside of the warranty, but the good over-zealous applecare reps called me a few times to offer it to me still, which I bought and used to repair the broken iPod that would have gone unfixed.

Last October I bought my 8 Core MP and will definitely buy Applecare later this summer before it expires. I plan to keep this thing around for 3-5 years after, I'll take any warranty I can get just in case.

I already utilized my warranty on the bad ATI card that came with my system.

GamaFu

Mar 31, 2009, 06:12 PM

That is UK-only, mind you.

I was looking all over the place for this, and yes, apparently it's a UK only thing. :( Looks like I still need Applecare... The ebay seller seems to receive quite good feedback from buyers.

txnoob

Mar 31, 2009, 06:18 PM

GamaFu

Mar 31, 2009, 06:21 PM

I called Apple after my purchase and confirmed it's legit. I wouldn't hesitate to buy.

Thanks. I will once I get my iMac. :)

brop52

Mar 31, 2009, 06:32 PM

carlosbutler

Mar 31, 2009, 06:42 PM

Agreeing with you completely on how they are miss sold, as i used to work for comet and, i never really used to offer it on pissy little things but on decent machines i would.

Especially this apple care, not especially for the hardware but mainly for the telephone support line. You ring up and instantly you get answered (well at least the 4 last times i have, the only 4 times i ever have infact) and they are very good and you can actually understand then (ie call centre is not in india *cough DELL*). I have actually had a fault with one of my macs, my iMac and that was simply the hard drive. probably some rubbish maxtor hdd that they used, i have never liked maxtor - every single one has broken on me

junyea

Mar 31, 2009, 06:53 PM

it is...get it

Jackintosh

Mar 31, 2009, 07:27 PM

I bought my Applecare for my MB from this seller (http://cgi.ebay.com/Apple-iMac-AppleCare-Extended-Warranty-Protection-Plan_W0QQitemZ130296791810QQihZ003QQcategoryZ171QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) and they are selling the iMac Applecare for $77. You'd have to be nuts not to buy it this cheap. It tremendously improves resale value down the road should you ever decide to sell and is great for peace of mind.

For the Mac Mini, I opted for this seller, who for $65 ships the Applecare product in its original sealed box (there are only 2 left at the moment). It comes with a diagnostic tools CD and documentation, as well as the registration code.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mac-Mini-Applecare-MA514LL-A-New-Sealed-in-Box-GREAT_W0QQitemZ330318102143QQihZ014QQcategoryZ111418QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

IJ Reilly

Mar 31, 2009, 07:57 PM

A few things to keep in mind about AppleCare and all other extended warranties:

1 - They are very profitable for the sellers. Meaning, that on average the sellers will pay out far less in claims than they collect in premiums. Considered purely on an economic basis, extended warranties are a bad deal. They will be a bad deal until someone decides to sell them at a loss. IOW, always.

2 - When someone quotes some astronomical price tag for a repair, especially one covered by AppleCare, consider that the price quoted is from Apple. This is important for two reasons. First, Apple is incentivized to quote huge repair costs which they "covered" because of your wise purchase of AppleCare. Second, service from Apple is always going to be the most expensive way to have a Mac repaired. Independent computer repair shops charge half or less than Apple does for the same repair.

3 - In the unlikely event that your $1,500 Mac craps out three years after purchase, how much would you logically invest in repair, if it wasn't insured? Would it not have something to do with what the computer was worth at that point, or how much it would cost to replace? Would you normally choose to sink $1,000 into repairing a computer that might not be worth even half that much? AppleCare alters this economic calculation, because in effect, you've paid in advance.

Bottom Line: Insuring against losses that you could easily afford to pay yourself if they occurred is a waste of money. Always has been, always will be.

brop52

Mar 31, 2009, 08:04 PM

For the Mac Mini, I opted for this seller, who for $65 ships the Applecare product in its original sealed box (there are only 2 left at the moment). It comes with a diagnostic tools CD and documentation, as well as the registration code.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mac-Mini-Applecare-MA514LL-A-New-Sealed-in-Box-GREAT_W0QQitemZ330318102143QQihZ014QQcategoryZ111418QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

There aren't as many options for the Mac Mini Applecare on ebay. Maybe it's just not as profitable for the sellers despite the fact that it is a huge ripoff from Apple at $149.

brop52

Mar 31, 2009, 08:08 PM

MacAndy74

Apr 1, 2009, 12:05 AM

For peace of mind, AppleCare is a must. You're already spending a fair bit of money buying the hardware - why not buy insurance for it too. :)

Whackintosh

Apr 1, 2009, 01:42 AM

For peace of mind, AppleCare is a must. You're already spending a fair bit of money buying the hardware - why not buy insurance for it too. :)

I have to agree here, though I have to wonder why they couldn't give their products a 3-year warranty right off the bat, given their prices etc.

Dunmail

Apr 1, 2009, 03:18 AM

A quick search on ebay (UK) shows that £50 ($90) is the going rate - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/AppleCare-iMac-Apple-Care-3-Years-%3a-works-with-the-new!_W0QQitemZ320353239057QQcmdZViewItem assuming of course that the seller is legit and their feedback rating hasn't been done by their mates:rolleyes:

Given that Apple want £136 for it ...

If you buy towards the end of the included warranty, does it give you another three years or still just extend to three years? There's a comment earlier in the thread about keeping on buying Applecare to extend the warranty which implies that you are purchasing X years' worth each time.

I agree with the comment about Apple differentiating themselves by offering a 3 year warranty as standard, presumably they've done their sums and decided against it. I work in a similar industry and we get lots of feedback about failure rates, trends etc. , you'll get a lot of failures early on, then things tail off for maybe eighteen months to two years then start to rise slowly but consistently. This is a fairly common graph for all electronic goods. I suspect the initial failures are a combination of constant use and handling damage along with manufacturing defaults or items being at the limit of quality control.

Right, one 24" iMac with 9400M graphics purchase coming up:D I'll let you know how I get on.

rich.smith

Apr 1, 2009, 07:08 AM

Can't find the article, but it's been discussed in a lot of tech blogs that Apple's failure rate is pretty bad, so yeah, I think quality has dropped a bit. I'm one of millions of users so it doesn't mean much but it definitely doesn't help apples failure rate that I had to go through 3 MacBook Pro's in less than 2 weeks before landing one that works with no problems/defects.

Blogs and one persons experience are your hard data of a worldwide trend involving millions of machines? My experience has been great with Macs at home and at work. I have personally used 3 MacBooks, 1 MBP, and 1 iMac with no problems. Here is a quote from a blog that contradicts your claim:

Apple’s hardware failure rate is way less than any other brand.

RedRaven571

Apr 1, 2009, 07:48 AM

It's not that is Applecare worth it - it's can you afford to have something fixed after Applecare expires...

With a logic board replacement costing almost more that the computer spending a few hundred dollars now might save you in the long run.

Amen to that! A few years back, I purchased a HP laptop that cost $2K, I bought the 3 year extended warranty for $350 (that one included accidental damage); the GPU fried the MB about a week out of the 3 years and HP replaced my laptop. For $169 (less with education discount), the 3 year Apple coverage is very cheap insurance, IMO.

Sagnet

Apr 1, 2009, 08:16 AM

Is Applecare worth it? That all depends on your particular situation. Norwegian law gives consumers a 5 year warranty on almost any consumer product, computers included. So for me, Applecare wouldn't be worth it.

bigbird

Apr 1, 2009, 09:30 AM

At the Cdn educational Apple store the base mini goes for $669 Cdn. Applecare for it goes for $119. That represents an insurance policy costing 18% of the original price. Not very cost effective in my opinion. If you had a new Mac Pro, it would cost $2699 and Applecare for it would be $239. That's only 9% of its value. Using the same % rate, the Mini's Applecare should only cost $60. Why does Apple try to rip us off? Because they're Apple!

powerbook911

Apr 1, 2009, 09:53 AM

I have to say. I sometimes don't know. However, it will help your resale value a few dollars, if you sell it after year 1, but during the 3 year warranty still, if you had Applecare on it.

It's pretty affordable on iMacs, which is good because they would probably be less likely to break than a notebook, which by some people, get banged around a bit.

I've had it on my Powerbook and two iMacs, and so far I've only need it to replace an adapter, or a mouse, but hey, it was even nice then. knock on wood. I'd rather not have to use it even if I have it!

Now on a Mac Mini I have to wonder if it would be better, to just buy a new one, if it broke, with the lower price tag, same with Apple TV for example. Now with iPod I get it, to have battery done at end of year 2, if needed.

Finally, there is a potentially other solution! If you don't have too bad money troubles and are good and saving money and not touching it, everytime you buy something where an extended warranty is offered, you could put the same amount of money into a savings account. This would add up over time and could cover the cost of most replacements eventually.

Well, I'd probably just still get Applecare, for now. ha-ha. However, I do not buy applecare until 11 months into standard warranty. There is *NO* point to give APple your money 11 months early!

bigbird

Apr 1, 2009, 10:06 AM

[QUOTE=powerbook911;7387941 However, I do not buy applecare until 11 months into standard warranty. There is *NO* point to give APple your money 11 months early![/QUOTE]

Not quite true. Your free Apple phone supports stops after 3 months. Applecare continues your free phone support after the 3 months to the full 3 years.

Hellhammer

Apr 1, 2009, 10:15 AM

Not quite true. Your free Apple phone supports stops after 3 months. Applecare continues your free phone support after the 3 months to the full 3 years.

Yeah. Single phone support after 90 days costs 50€, that's ridiculous.

OneMike

Apr 1, 2009, 10:28 AM

Owned many macs but never have nor will buy apple care.

For me I have seldom keep a computer more then a year so wouldn't be worth it.

The iMac I got my parents is from 05 though and still runs perfect.

Dalmuti

Apr 1, 2009, 10:32 AM

One other thing to consider is that it is easer to re-sell your computer if you still have some Apple Care left on it, even if it's only a few months. I've sold my last two iMacs on Craigslist, one around 2 yrs and one 2.5 yrs, and was able to get about $100 and $50 more than others that didn't have AC. AC is transferable and people feel more confident in buying used if the computer is still under warranty. If you plan on upgrading every couple of years you will get some of that money put into AC back.

OneMike

Apr 1, 2009, 10:47 AM

^ that is a good point and true.

3lutz3toe

Apr 1, 2009, 11:16 AM

I totally agree w/ this. Extended Warranties are not really worth it unless you're one of those who can afford them and don’t want the extra effort.
—If a product fails after 2 or 3 years, then you either got a lemon or the build is not all of that great.
—I personally would stay away from that. It’s a way for companies to make a nice chunk of profit through scare tactics.

A few things to keep in mind about AppleCare and all other extended warranties:

1 - They are very profitable for the sellers. Meaning, that on average the sellers will pay out far less in claims than they collect in premiums. Considered purely on an economic basis, extended warranties are a bad deal. They will be a bad deal until someone decides to sell them at a loss. IOW, always.

2 - When someone quotes some astronomical price tag for a repair, especially one covered by AppleCare, consider that the price quoted is from Apple. This is important for two reasons. First, Apple is incentivized to quote huge repair costs which they "covered" because of your wise purchase of AppleCare. Second, service from Apple is always going to be the most expensive way to have a Mac repaired. Independent computer repair shops charge half or less than Apple does for the same repair.

3 - In the unlikely event that your $1,500 Mac craps out three years after purchase, how much would you logically invest in repair, if it wasn't insured? Would it not have something to do with what the computer was worth at that point, or how much it would cost to replace? Would you normally choose to sink $1,000 into repairing a computer that might not be worth even half that much? AppleCare alters this economic calculation, because in effect, you've paid in advance.

Bottom Line: Insuring against losses that you could easily afford to pay yourself if they occurred is a waste of money. Always has been, always will be.

Hellhammer

Apr 1, 2009, 11:24 AM

iLog.Genius

Apr 1, 2009, 11:41 AM

IJ Reilly

Apr 1, 2009, 12:12 PM

I would agree with you if the computer was $600. But if you're laying down $2400+ and you're computer fails after a year, you're ready to brush it aside and say "oh well, I got a lemon anyway..."?

No, but that's not the point. The questions you need to ask yourself are an economic ones: What is the computer worth now, and how much would I spend to have it repaired if it wasn't insured? Insuring it doesn't make the repair economically wise. In reality, you've paid for the repair in advance, so you don't get to decide if it's economically wise.

3lutz3toe

Apr 1, 2009, 04:15 PM

I’d also like to add to this point. We are all letting these companies off easily because they all only warranty their products only for 1 year!

—A product that costs one $800 dollars and up should last at least 2-3 years, normal wear and tear of course doesn’t count.
—And the poster who compares this to insuring a House is I don't really think you can compare. One, a house costs a lot more than a computer. And a house is such a huge chunk of money that if damaged, most would never be able to afford to fix or replace w/out insurance. And a house is not a product manufactured by a corporation that should stand behind their offerings.

But hey, if it makes you feel better, then by all means for it up. You're subsidizing Apple and maybe the rest of us who don't have AppleCare.

No, but that's not the point. The questions you need to ask yourself are an economic ones: What is the computer worth now, and how much would I spend to have it repaired if it wasn't insured? Insuring it doesn't make the repair economically wise. In reality, you've paid for the repair in advance, so you don't get to decide if it's economically wise.

powerbook911

Apr 1, 2009, 04:59 PM

Not quite true. Your free Apple phone supports stops after 3 months. Applecare continues your free phone support after the 3 months to the full 3 years.

Who needs the phone support though? If find you need it, add applecare then.

Bye Bye Baby

Apr 1, 2009, 05:08 PM

What are people's experience like?

gasport

Apr 2, 2009, 07:46 AM

What are people's experience like?

I purchased my first iMac in early 2007 and got applecare. I gave it to my granddaughter as I have a BTO iMac awaiting shipping. The only time I used it was when I had some real problems getting my AEBS configured. I had purchased it and not used it for 6 months so it was out of free support. The guy I called asked me if I had applecare on my iMac and I said yes. He told me the AEBS was covered under that warranty. They eventually replaced the AEBS with a new one (still had same problem). I spent literally 6 hours on the phone with them. A software update finally resolved the issue.

After 2 plus years I have had no need to contact apple regarding the iMac. I believe most added warranties are overpriced and never used. The biggest money maker has to be extended warranties for TVs.....

However, if you want peace of mind and like some here have real problems with the iMac than it is probably worth it. I am looking at buying it on ebay, but I need to hear from some others who have purchased it and activated it before I will commit.

davids8477

Apr 2, 2009, 03:14 PM

I have Applecare on 3 machines (one MBP One IMAC 24" and a new MINI)
I bought the Applecare for the MINI on Ebay for $65 - at that price its a bargain in my opinion.

I have used Applecare twice on my MBP so that paid for all 3 extended warantees

For peace of mind use Applecare - especially as they are so tough to get into.

drjsway

Apr 2, 2009, 09:36 PM

My friend works for Apple and he tells me that they make a KILLING from Apple Care. Any type of insurance is a bad deal. If it weren't, they wouldn't be offering it.

Also, Apple Care doesn't cover accidental damage. I'm more likely to drop/spill water on my notebook than have it fail on its own. As far as desktops, in my twenty years of computer, never has a desktop failed in three years.

Regardless of whether you buy it on ebay, it's still not a good bet.

Actually, "bet" is a good word. Let's say 40% of people get value out of Apple Care and 60% don't. Would you go to Vegas and put a bet down with a 40% chance of winning? Hell, most Vegas games have only a .5-2% house edge.

The actual number is probably much less than 40%. What are the chances that your brand new computer will fail, not in the first year, but in the second or third? 10%? 5%? Lower?

You also need to look at how much your computer worth in the second or third year. I wouldn't buy a two year old MacBook for more than a few hundred dollars. I wouldn't buy a three year old MacBook at all.

My MacBook Pro's LCD failed after 1 1/2 years. I dropped it so Apple Care wouldn't have covered it anyway, but even if they did, I wouldn't feel regret because I'd gotten 18 months of use out of it, and was looking forward to a new computer. Ideally, I would've used it for 3 years but 18 months didn't kill me.

Reventon

Apr 2, 2009, 09:50 PM

Yes, I would I say it is. Especially judging from all these Dead Pixel threads among other things. I spent like $3000 on this computer, so the extra piece of mind is relieving should anything go wrong with my new Mac. Judging from what I hear, Apple's customer support seems to be pretty good.

drjsway

Apr 2, 2009, 10:05 PM

Yes, I would I say it is. Especially judging from all these Dead Pixel threads among other things.

Dead Pixels would be covered during the first year.

jw2002

Apr 2, 2009, 11:21 PM

The rule on any form of insurance is if you have the cash to cover the loss, then in the long run, you are better off not buying insurance. Really insurance is intended for big things that we don't have the cash for, such as the house burning down or auto liability insurance. Extended warranties are nearly pure profit centers for companies. Look at AAPL's or BBY's quarterly report and see how much of the earnings are coming from these warranties...

IJ Reilly

Apr 3, 2009, 10:48 AM

One constant in these AppleCare debates is that any argument that begins and ends with a statement such as "yes, it's worth it," automatically trumps any cost-benefit argument. Worth has nothing at all to do with money, apparently.

ADent

Apr 3, 2009, 12:17 PM

I’d also like to add to this point. We are all letting these companies off easily because they all only warranty their products only for 1 year!

They could (and should) change this. But everybody is cutting warranties to save money.

Also specifically in the computer arena IBM offered 3 year warranties a long time ago when most companies offered a year. The computer stores told sales people to not sell IBM, but the other brand then go for the 3 year extended warranty. They made more money selling the warranty than they made selling any brand of computer. So the computer industry standardized on the shorter warranty.

Benguitar

Apr 3, 2009, 01:07 PM

Apple Care has saved me over $1100.00 in the past 2 years of owning my MacBook.

Absolutely worth it!

IJ Reilly

Apr 3, 2009, 01:15 PM

Like I said...

daneoni

Apr 3, 2009, 01:25 PM

I had it on my iMac and whilst i never needed to use it, it drove my resale value up considerably.

Whackintosh

Apr 3, 2009, 02:22 PM

Apple Care has saved me over $1100.00 in the past 2 years of owning my MacBook.

Absolutely worth it!

I think it's outrageous that a $1200 machine would need $1100 worth of repairs in two years. What is going on?

IJ Reilly

Apr 3, 2009, 02:52 PM

I think it's outrageous that a $1200 machine would need $1100 worth of repairs in two years. What is going on?

With automobile insurance, if your car requires repairs costing more than its current market value, the insurance company declares it "totaled" and writes you a check. So one wonders why Apple would sink more into repairing a Mac than it is currently worth. I don't suppose it has anything to do with giving AppleCare policyholders the feeling that they are getting value for their money.

jmpage2

Apr 3, 2009, 05:15 PM

With automobile insurance, if your car requires repairs costing more than its current market value, the insurance company declares it "totaled" and writes you a check. So one wonders why Apple would sink more into repairing a Mac than it is currently worth. I don't suppose it has anything to do with giving AppleCare policyholders the feeling that they are getting value for their money.

It's nothing like a car. The expensive part of repairing a "totalled" car is the parts and labor.

In all likelihood, Apple has tons of these old parts available, so that isn't really costing them much, and the time for a technician to completely rebuild a laptop is often just a few hours.

drjsway

Apr 3, 2009, 05:20 PM

Apple Care has saved me over $1100.00 in the past 2 years of owning my MacBook.

Absolutely worth it!

The question is, would you have spent that $1100 if you didn't have warranty? If not, then it didn't save you $1100. If Apple wants to charge me $1100 to fix my two year old MacBook, the value of that repair would maybe be worth a few hundred to me, nothing more.

Look at it this way, you can buy 1-2 year old used MacBook for much less than $1100. To say you saved $1100 is ridiculous because if you didn't have Apple Care, you could've bought another MacBook with the same specs for cheaper.

BTW, how much do you think the "$1100" in repairs cost Apple? You have to look at long term also. In your whole life, how much have you spent in warranties for computers? In this case, maybe you lucked out. In the long run, you will always lose with warranties. Just in Vegas.

I really don't understand why people can't comprehend simple economics. Warranties are for suckers. No wonder so many people are in debt.

IJ Reilly

Apr 3, 2009, 05:27 PM

It's nothing like a car. The expensive part of repairing a "totalled" car is the parts and labor.

In all likelihood, Apple has tons of these old parts available, so that isn't really costing them much, and the time for a technician to completely rebuild a laptop is often just a few hours.

Parts plus labor -- that would be total cost of any repair. But the real question is, if Macs are are so inexpensive for Apple to repair (which is probably true), then why does Apple charge so much for the repairs?

One reason: to inflate the perceived value of AppleCare.

drjsway

Apr 3, 2009, 06:30 PM

Value of used MacBooks

MB402LL/A - released 2/26/2008 - $640. 2.1ghz c2d.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Apple-Macintosh-Macbook-White-2-1GHz-Laptop_W0QQitemZ120394149508QQcmdZViewItemQQptZApple_Laptops?hash=item120394149508&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A16%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

Remember that you are only insuring 2nd and 3rd years. First year is already covered by basic warranty. You are not insuring a new computer. You are insuring a used $640 computer.

By the end of 2nd year...

MA701LL/A - released 11/8/2006 - $400. this is the high end 2ghz/2gb ram/with new 320gb hdd.

http://cgi.ebay.com/MacBook-Mid-2006-2GHz-2GB-RAM-NEW-320GB-HD_W0QQitemZ220381912615QQcmdZViewItemQQptZApple_Laptops?hash=item220381912615&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A16%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

Now, I couldn't even find a working 3 year old MacBook on eBay but let's say it has a theoretical value of $300.

What is the average value of your MacBook in those 2 years that Apple Care covers? $446.

How much would you insure $446? Personally even the $60 deals on eBay are a rip off.

flopticalcube

Apr 3, 2009, 06:46 PM

By the end of 2nd year...

MA701LL/A - released 11/8/2006 - $400. this is the high end 2ghz/2gb ram/with new 320gb hdd.

http://rover.ebay.com/ar/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?mpt=1776967797&adtype=1&size=1x1&type=3&campid=5336090759&toolid=10001 http://cgi.ebay.com/MacBook-Mid-2006-2GHz-2GB-RAM-NEW-320GB-HD_W0QQitemZ220381912615QQcmdZViewItemQQptZApple_Laptops?hash=item220381912615&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A16%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318 (http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?type=3&campid=5336090759&toolid=10001&mpre=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2FMacBook-Mid-2006-2GHz-2GB-RAM-NEW-320GB-HD_W0QQitemZ220381912615QQcmdZViewItemQQptZApple_Laptops%3Fhash%3Ditem220381912615%26_trksid%3Dp3286 .c0.m14%26_trkparms%3D66%253A2%257C65%253A16%257C39%253A1%257C240%253A1318)

That's a Core Duo MacBook (mid 2006), here is one of the late 2006 ones (over $500).

http://cgi.ebay.com/Macbook-Laptop-2-0-GHz-Intel-Core-2-Duo-2-GB-RAM-120Gb_W0QQitemZ290306292862QQcmdZViewItemQQptZApple_Laptops?hash=item290306292862&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A0|293%3A1|294%3A50

The point is still valid however.

Jackintosh

Apr 3, 2009, 06:47 PM

I disagree with 2 posts above. If this were your basic $59 DVD player, additional coverage would for sure be a waste. But we're talking about highly complex technology with intricate interconnections among their components. If any one of them fails, nothing works. This is fast evolving technology that's updated frequently with untried new features and enhancements. No one knows the longevity and reliability of these new features.

We're all paying at least a kilobuck and likely more. 65 bucks for 2 more years of Mini coverage (as an example) is well worth avoiding the risk of shelling out big time for repairs.

jbrenn

Apr 3, 2009, 07:01 PM

it does not cost apple $1100 to replace a motherboard it is more like 100-300.

drjsway

Apr 3, 2009, 07:11 PM

That's a Core Duo MacBook (mid 2006)

My bad. Let's count that one as close to end of Apple Care. So you're insuring something $400-640.

We're all paying at least a kilobuck and likely more.

You are missing the point. You are not insuring a kilobuck or more machine. When Apple Care kicks in, your computer has already depreciated by 50%. Most of its value is in the first year, when there is already warranty.

65 bucks for 2 more years of Mini coverage (as an example) is well worth avoiding the risk of shelling out big time for repairs

Or you can buy that same Mini on ebay for at least 50% off what you paid for it, and sell your broken one for parts that are still working. That's worst case scenario. Best case scenario is you save 65 bucks.

For AppleCare to be profitable, they must make more than they spend on repairs (and it is extremely profitable or else they wouldn't offer it. It is a business).

In the long run, you are guaranteed to lose money. Maybe you haven't hit the "long run" yet, but if you keep buying AppleCare your whole life, when you are 80 years old, I guarantee you will lose much more money than you save.

Jackintosh

Apr 3, 2009, 07:20 PM

My bad. Let's count that one as close to end of Apple Care. So you're insuring something $400-640.

You are missing the point. You are not insuring a kilobuck or more machine. When Apple Care kicks in, your computer has already depreciated by 50%. Most of its value is in the first year, when there is already warranty.

Or you can buy that same Mini on ebay for at least 50% off what you paid for it, and sell your broken one for parts that are still working. That's worst case scenario. Best case scenario is you save 65 bucks.

For AppleCare to be profitable, they must make more than they spend on repairs (and it is extremely profitable or else they wouldn't offer it. It is a business).

In the long run, you are guaranteed to lose money. Maybe you haven't hit the "long run" yet, but if you keep buying AppleCare your whole life, when you are 80 years old, I guarantee you will lose much more money than you save.

I think you're not seeing the situation as other people see it. Once you spend a kilobuck or more, it doesn't matter that it's depreciated somewhat - everything does. The point is you don't want that original investment to become worthless if an expensive part fails in the first 3 years. It's protecting a significant investment in complex technology that has a relatively high risk of failure.

Many people don't buy a new iMac or Mini every 1-2 years, and expect the one they invest in to last them quite a bit longer. They don't look at depreciation value because they have no intention of selling it in the near term. The just want to be assured the thing works for as long as possible. For 65 bucks, this assurance is well worth it.

MacAgent84

Apr 3, 2009, 07:28 PM

Apple has great quality in their products. Certainly greater quality than most companies in the tech world. No question.

The chances of having hardware problems with your Mac hardware must be rather slim or small in scope, otherwise AppleCare would not be profitable for them. And, yes, the high costs of their repairs is also a useful marketing trick for AppleCare.

As with most warranty situations, it is a bit of a gamble, but in this case, with Apple hardware, it is one that is most likely in your favor.

drjsway

Apr 3, 2009, 08:00 PM

I think you're not seeing the situation as other people see it. Once you spend a kilobuck or more, it doesn't matter that it's depreciated somewhat - everything does. The point is you don't want that original investment to become worthless if an expensive part fails in the first 3 years. It's protecting a significant investment in complex technology that has a relatively high risk of failure.

Many people don't buy a new iMac or Mini every 1-2 years, and expect the one they invest in to last them quite a bit longer. They don't look at depreciation value because they have no intention of selling it in the near term. The just want to be assured the thing works for as long as possible. For 65 bucks, this assurance is well worth it.

It will never be worthless. Many broken macs are sold "as is" for parts and they still command a fairly high price. And for just a bit more, you can buy a working model.

I'm not someone who just throws my mac away every year either. I try to get at least three years from a computer. If the mac I have now fails just after the 12 month mark, I'd be deeply upset too, but these things happen and it won't convince me to get Apple Care next time. I still know the odds of it failing in the 2nd or 3rd year are much much lower and financially, it just doesn't make sense. It's not wise to make purchases like this out of fear.

So far, I haven't needed a repair in the 2nd or 3rd year on any of my macs. I have gotten many repairs in the 1st year though. If a component is faulty, it will most likely fail in the 1st year. If you make it through the first year, chances are your components are fine and won't give you any problems.

If Apple offered accidental damage though, I will buy it. I have dropped/spilled water on my laptops a few times in the past. But it's probably not as profitable for them so they don't do it. That's another reason why AppleCare is not wise. If you accidentally break your mac, it gets stolen, damaged by an act of god, spill water on it, your AppleCare is worthless.

rich.smith

Apr 4, 2009, 07:10 AM

My bad. Let's count that one as close to end of Apple Care. So you're insuring something $400-640.

You are missing the point. You are not insuring a kilobuck or more machine. When Apple Care kicks in, your computer has already depreciated by 50%. Most of its value is in the first year, when there is already warranty.

Or you can buy that same Mini on ebay for at least 50% off what you paid for it, and sell your broken one for parts that are still working. That's worst case scenario. Best case scenario is you save 65 bucks.

For AppleCare to be profitable, they must make more than they spend on repairs (and it is extremely profitable or else they wouldn't offer it. It is a business).

In the long run, you are guaranteed to lose money. Maybe you haven't hit the "long run" yet, but if you keep buying AppleCare your whole life, when you are 80 years old, I guarantee you will lose much more money than you save.

For Apple to make money, AppleCare must cost them less that their costs to repair computers, lose customers, etc. It does not have to cost them less than YOUR costs.

All this talk about buying used assumes that the used computer has no problems. That is a gamble as well.

There is no way to tell if it is worth it on a customer by customer basis. A business that buys many computers can crunch the numbers and decide to save the AppleCare costs and use that money to repair or replace any problem computers. Individuals have to decide if they are going to risk not being covered. If someone's 13 month old $1800 computer needs to be replaced, telling them that they will make up the cost of replacing the computer over their next 10 computer purchases (30 years) will not help very much.

VoodooDaddy

Apr 4, 2009, 08:51 AM

Just wait until about 2 week from the end of your standard 1yr and get from Ebay. Yes, its worth it. As mentioned 1 repair would cost almost as much as a new system. It improves resale value as buyers have peace of mind that they are covered too.

I bought Applecare off Ebay for a Macbook ($120) and an iMac ($70) from same seller, cost me $190 total. Retail on the Macbook alone is $249.

xenaki

Apr 4, 2009, 11:08 AM

I think its worth it. Better safe than sorry. I just have to remember to buy it before my warranty runs out!

IJ Reilly

Apr 4, 2009, 11:09 AM

There is no way to tell if it is worth it on a customer by customer basis.

That's similar to saying that you never know whether you'll hit the jackpot on a slot machine in Vegas. On one level that's true, but the other plain reality is that the odds are stacked against you coming out ahead. When you buy extended warranties you are betting against the house. The problem is, the house knows the odds, and you don't. Just like in Vegas, they make sure they win. Even so, lots of people play slots -- so what do I know?

Jackintosh

Apr 4, 2009, 11:14 AM

That's similar to saying that you never know whether you'll hit the jackpot on a slot machine in Vegas. On one level that's true, but the other plain reality is that the odds are stacked against you coming out ahead. When you buy extended warranties you are betting against the house. The problem is, the house knows the odds, and you don't. Just like in Vegas, they make sure they win. Even so, lots of people play slots -- so what do I know?

But this isn't a casino situation where you're looking to make money. It's about peace of mind. That's the whole point of insurance. Otherwise we all wouldn't carry health insurance (at least in the U.S.). And you have to weigh the cost against value. $65-70 with an additional 2 years for a Mini or iMac is worth that peace of mind in my opinion.

It also may be false that Apple is making so much money on this. They may be providing it as a service for their customers who want this protection at a modest or break-even point for themselves.

IJ Reilly

Apr 4, 2009, 11:24 AM

But this isn't a casino situation where you're looking to make money. It's about peace of mind. That's the whole point of insurance. Otherwise we all wouldn't carry health insurance (at least in the U.S.). And you have to weigh the cost against value. $65-70 with an additional 2 years for a Mini or iMac is worth that peace of mind in my opinion.

As I said in my first post in this thread, it's a bad economic decision to insure against losses that you could easily afford to pay yourself. Calling it "peace of mind" is a way to avoid thinking about the economics, which are truly awful.

It also may be false that Apple is making so much money on this. They may be providing it as a service for their customers who want this protection at modest or break-even cost for themselves.

Extended warranties are notoriously profitable throughout the industry -- and last I checked, Apple was not a charity.

Jackintosh

Apr 4, 2009, 11:28 AM

As I said in my first post in this thread, it's a bad economic decision to insure against losses that you could easily afford to pay yourself. Calling it "peace of mind" is a way to avoid thinking about the economics, which are truly awful.

Extended warranties are notoriously profitable throughout the industry -- and last I checked, Apple was not a charity.

Easily afford to pay for an Apple repair? As you just said, Apple is not a charity. You'll pay through the nose, and then you'll rethink the economics. As I keep saying, if the cost of the protection is cheap, it's worth it. And at the prices off of eBay, it is.

IJ Reilly

Apr 4, 2009, 11:48 AM

Easily afford to pay for an Apple repair? As you just said, Apple is not a charity. You'll pay through the nose, and then you'll rethink the economics. As I keep saying, if the cost of the protection is cheap, it's worth it. And at the prices off of eBay, it is.

As an economic proposition, it's not cheap. And as I've said a couple of times before, Apple inflates the cost of these repairs, which gives people who buy AppleCare the impression that they're getting value for money. Repairs can be obtained from others at half the cost Apple charges for them.

In any case, the statement I made holds true. If you are someone who can't afford to replace or repair your computer if it breaks (and know that Apple isn't the only place where you can have it repaired), then an extended warranty may be something to consider. But when I hear people talk about how AppleCare is "definitely worth it" and is good for "peace of mind," I can see that the actual economics of extended warranties are not well understood.

jmpage2

Apr 4, 2009, 12:10 PM

To be fair you do have to look at the cost of the coverage. $75 for full 3 year coverage including phone support on a $2000 computer is incredibly cheap. There's probably not a single thing that could fail on an iMac other than the keyboard or mouse that would cost $75 or less to repair or replace.

Alternatively, if you choose to self insure in this case, you would probably need to know what the average cost of a repair on X iMac model is. It's also worth noting that on occasion Apple has upgraded peoples 2+ year old iMacs under this coverage to the latest model at absolutely no cost.

Imagine coverage like that on a $35,000 automobile and now imagine that such coverage only cost less than 4% of the purchase price. You'd be an idiot not to get it.

Generally speaking I am against extended warranties of any kind, but in the case of a boutique product like Apple, with such a low cost to insure/warranty the item, it's something of a no brainer.

txnoob

Apr 4, 2009, 12:19 PM

I think it's safe to say that for some it's "worth it" and for others it may not make sense. Especially for the Apple owner who's on his 3rd machine with nay a problem yet.

IMO, any Apple with a built in display should consider the Applecare simply because one of the most common problems with laptops specifically is the display or the video card.

If you spend $65 on a Mac Mini Applecare and 2.5 years down the road the logic board needs to be replaced for $300 then I think you made a wise invest ment. If you had paid $150 for AppleCare direct from apple, I wouldn't be feeling like it was a great of a deal. Especially if nothing happened at all.

For me, it would honestly depend on how much the apple care was vs. the price I paid for the machine vs. the cost of typical repairs for the model I purchased. Some iMacs have brightness issues on the LCD, Some MacBooks had certain nVidia graphics cards burn up. Unfortunately you may only know about those issues after it's too late.

You also need to consider the fact that some people may have the money right now to purchase the base iMac and AppleCare through Ebay, but most definitely wouldn't have $500 for a potential repair in 2 years (i.e. a struggling college student, single mom, etc)

Lots of variables can determine an extended warranty's worth. I for one don't consider it on items less than $200. Then, if it is offered on more expensive items, I only take it if it is no more than 10-15% of the price of the item. It would also depend on how sensitive the item may be to failure.
for example I would probably pay for an extended warranty on a $500 TV before a $500 kitchen range. I have also been in circumstances where the reseller will discount the price of the actual item if I would buy the warranty and it worked out to be a pretty fair deal.

It's all in your circumstances.

Trajectory

Apr 4, 2009, 12:38 PM

This question seems to be asked one a month here.

If you buy a laptop or iMac AppleCare is a good idea. I personally have bought AC for all of the Apple computers I purchased over the years, and I've had to use it a few times which made it well worth the cost for me.

txnoob

Apr 4, 2009, 12:44 PM

Another thing to consider is more people may have been screwed without an extended warranty than others. My mom had a dell computer HDD fail 1 month after the original warranty expired. She also has an Onkyo Shelf Audio system that was $700 when new. It was (still is) an incredible system for it's size. She bought an extended warranty and it failed at about 2 years old and the tuner component was replaced. That was over 15 years ago and now it's still running as new.

She has little faith in electronics and now basically always buys some sort of protection, even when think it's extremely over priced.

Lordedmond

Apr 4, 2009, 01:05 PM

Apple care is like any insurance

expensive if you don't need it but worth every penny if you do

IJ Reilly

Apr 4, 2009, 01:16 PM

IMO, any Apple with a built in display should consider the Applecare simply because one of the most common problems with laptops specifically is the display or the video card.

The problem with this reasoning is, you are betting against the house and the house knows the odds, and you don't.

txnoob

Apr 4, 2009, 03:37 PM

The problem with this reasoning is, you are betting against the house and the house knows the odds, and you don't.
I may not have exact figures, but that's what typically breaks on laptops.

Besides, I said they should "consider" applecare, not buy it. And as mentioned below, your individual circumstance will determine the best course. There is no finite answer.

definitive

Apr 4, 2009, 04:33 PM

Quality of Macs has fallen down so I think it's worth it if you're not planning to buy new computer every few years. At least you'll sleep your nights well.

explain how quality has fallen. all i see in every thread on this board is how macs are reliable, and pc's aren't.

drjsway

Apr 4, 2009, 07:59 PM

But this isn't a casino situation where you're looking to make money. It's about peace of mind. That's the whole point of insurance. Otherwise we all wouldn't carry health insurance (at least in the U.S.).

You're not looking to make money but you shouldn't be so quick to let go of your money.

Health insurance is completely different than electronics. If there is even a 1% chance something happens to me, I want to be protected. My life is worth more than money, my mac is not. How can you compare your life to a computer?

IMO, any Apple with a built in display should consider the Applecare simply because one of the most common problems with laptops specifically is the display or the video card.

It may be one of the most common problems but you don't know how often it happens. Apple does. Apple knows EXACTLY the percentage that fails and prices AppleCare accordingly. In Vegas, you can look up the house edge of any game online. AppleCare is worse than gambling because you are completely clueless on the odds, only relying on personal experience and forums like these.

Apple allows reselling of AppleCare on eBay. There is a reason for that. Even at those prices, it is still profitable for them.

My mom had a dell computer HDD fail 1 month after the original warranty expired.

For less than $50, you can find a HDD probably much better than a 13 month old Dell.

She also has an Onkyo Shelf Audio system that was $700 when new. It was (still is) an incredible system for it's size. She bought an extended warranty and it failed at about 2 years old and the tuner component was replaced.

Don't know how expensive the tuner was but she lucked out. I can go to Vegas and make a killing but I wouldn't recommend others do the same.

Ask Warren Buffet (or any investor close to his success) if he buys warranties. Nobody who understands economics as well as he does would even think about it. I don't care if you're a struggling college student who can't afford the repairs. You don't give away money now for something that may not happen in the future.

drjsway

Apr 4, 2009, 08:08 PM

IJ Reilly

Apr 4, 2009, 08:26 PM

Health insurance is completely different than electronics. If there is even a 1% chance something happens to me, I want to be protected. My life is worth more than money, my mac is not. How can you compare your life to a computer?

That's true, but the real issue is, surgery and a stay in the hospital can easily run up a $100,000 tab. Most of us need health insurance because a bill like that would be ruinous.

Whackintosh

Apr 4, 2009, 08:39 PM

By the way, every major credit card doubles the original manufacturer's warranty. I know my AMEX, Mastercard, and my VISA does. So, for example, if Apple offers 1 year, my credit card covers the 2nd year.

How does that work though? Is it the equivalent of a 2nd year of Apple Care with he same level of benefits?

drjsway

Apr 4, 2009, 08:55 PM

How does that work though? Is it the equivalent of a 2nd year of Apple Care with he same level of benefits?

Not sure if it's same level of benefits but you go to Apple, get a repair estimate, send it to credit card company and they send you a check so you can have it repaired.

Jackintosh

Apr 4, 2009, 08:56 PM

You're not looking to make money but you shouldn't be so quick to let go of your money.

Health insurance is completely different than electronics. If there is even a 1% chance something happens to me, I want to be protected. My life is worth more than money, my mac is not. How can you compare your life to a computer?

No one's comparing the value of one's life with a computer. We're talking about insurance as a protection against some event, any event. It's a matter of degree and cost in what you want protected and if you think it's worth it.

Some people value knowing they won't have to shell out for an additional 2 years if something goes wrong with their Mac. Some people don't. Just like some people don't bother getting health insurance because they think they're healthy and will never get sick. It's all in your head as to what you think the risks are, and if you need to be protected against those risks.

I think we beat this one to death. Those who think it's worth it, get it. Those who think it's waste, don't. Now back to enjoying our Macs.

drjsway

Apr 4, 2009, 09:19 PM

No one's comparing the value of one's life with a computer. We're talking about insurance as a protection against some event, any event. It's a matter of degree and cost in what you want protected and if you think it's worth it.

Some people value knowing they won't have to shell out for an additional 2 years if something goes wrong with their Mac. Some people don't. Just like some people don't bother getting health insurance because they think they're healthy and will never get sick. It's all in your head as to what you think the risks are, and if you need to be protected against those risks.

Getting back to the original question "Is AppleCare worth it?"

It is worth it if you need a peace of mind that you're protected, yes, but if you need that peace of mind, you wouldn't be asking the question anyway.

Is AppleCare financially wise? No. Most companies have at least a 50% profit margin on warranties and I doubt Apple is the exception. Nearly 100% (yes, 100%) of Circuit City's operating income came from selling extended warranties.

Most people would be ruined with an $100,000 hospital bill. Nobody, not even the struggling college kids, will be ruined if their mac breaks.

Consumer Reports has been speaking out against extended warranties for for years. They felt so strongly, they took out a full page ad in USA Today. Click below to see it:

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/resources/images/money/news/november-2006/why-you-dont-need-an-extended-warranty-11-06/overview/vmax_cr_v4_big.jpg

drjsway

Apr 4, 2009, 09:31 PM

Mike in Kansas

Apr 4, 2009, 11:17 PM

Sorry for beating it to death but I feel strongly that we should educate people on this issue. Here's what Business Week says:

If you've done your homework, you'll just say no. For what is largely an afterthought in the buying process, extended warranties -- or more accurately, service contracts -- have become a huge $15 billion annual business. Typically, at least half of that goes into the seller's pocket as profit, with less than 20% spent on the repair or replacement of products. To put that in gambling terms: The house has set the odds so that for every $100 it takes in, it pays out only $20. You're betting against the house. Guess who wins.
http://www.businessweek.com (http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/04_51/b3913113_mz020.htm)

A lot of these things are a "bad deal" on average: car insurance, homeowners insurance, umbrella insurance, etc. However, as an individual, you don't get to average your risk out over many computers, houses, cars, etc. If a tragedy happens to you, your odds are now 100%. Your single computer either has something fail, or it doesn't. It doesn't fail 10% of the way.

For the pittance you can find Apple Care for on the web ($75 for an iMac), I can't see how that is a bad deal if ANYthing breaks over the next 3 years.

Jackintosh

Apr 4, 2009, 11:31 PM

Getting back to the original question "Is AppleCare worth it?"

It is worth it if you need a peace of mind that you're protected, yes, but if you need that peace of mind, you wouldn't be asking the question anyway.

Is AppleCare financially wise? No. Most companies have at least a 50% profit margin on warranties and I doubt Apple is the exception. Nearly 100% (yes, 100%) of Circuit City's operating income came from selling extended warranties.

Most people would be ruined with an $100,000 hospital bill. Nobody, not even the struggling college kids, will be ruined if their mac breaks.

Consumer Reports has been speaking out against extended warranties for for years. They felt so strongly, they took out a full page ad in USA Today. Click below to see it:

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/resources/images/money/news/november-2006/why-you-dont-need-an-extended-warranty-11-06/overview/vmax_cr_v4_big.jpg

Consumer Reports has been against purchasing warranties on everyday electronics such as TVs, DVD players, and the like. I've never seen them come out against warranties for complex technology such as computer systems. So you're reading too much into what Consumer Reports is saying.

And I keep saying, as the above poster does too, if the cost of the protection is a pittance, then what the heck? Sometimes it sounds like principle's hijacked common sense, as in this situation.

IJ Reilly

Apr 5, 2009, 01:07 AM

Consumer Reports has been against purchasing warranties on everyday electronics such as TVs, DVD players, and the like. I've never seen them come out against warranties for complex technology such as computer systems. So you're reading too much into what Consumer Reports is saying.

And I keep saying, as the above poster does too, if the cost of the protection is a pittance, then what the heck? Sometimes it sounds like principle's hijacked common sense, as in this situation.

Consumer Reports has always recommended against buying extended warranties. If the principle is saving money over the long run, then I agree -- it has been hijacked.

JayLenochiniMac

Apr 5, 2009, 01:26 AM

Consumer Reports has always recommended against buying extended warranties.

In general, yes, but they've made a few exceptions in the past, namely rear-projection TVs. They also suggest the most cautious customers to consider an extended warranty if the warranty is inexpensive and the costs of repair is high (sounds like Apple, doesn't it?).

IJ Reilly

Apr 5, 2009, 11:23 AM

In general, yes, but they've made a few exceptions in the past, namely rear-projection TVs. They also suggest the most cautious customers to consider an extended warranty if the warranty is inexpensive and the costs of repair is high (sounds like Apple, doesn't it?).

I recall seeing the former in Consumer Reports, but not the latter. In fact what they do recommend for the worrier is banking the money you might have paid for extending the warranty. Projection TVs cost (or once did) something like four grand and are very unreliable. And they have said that of the extended warranties available, AppleCare is one of the better ones because of the telephone tech support. (Many may not realize that your one year of AppleCare phone support begins when you call them the first time, so I wonder about the value of that too.) In general, they still recommend against them.

Here is the article from CR:

http://blogs.consumerreports.org/shopping/2006/11/resist_the_pitc.html

drjsway

Apr 5, 2009, 05:24 PM

(Many may not realize that your one year of AppleCare phone support begins when you call them the first time, so I wonder about the value of that too.) In general, they still recommend against them.

Does the 90-day regular phone support start when you first call them too?

Who calls phone support anyway? Is it for software problems? It seems worthless for experienced Mac users.

srl7741

Apr 5, 2009, 05:33 PM

It"s really a tough call weather it's worth it or not. It may be best to decide based on what will make you feel best. I've never had to use it and I hope I don't but I do have it on my iMac. Being an all in one I just thought it may prove to be worth the money? Heck I don't know? It's like gambling, we all hope that we made the right choice and go home a winner.

IJ Reilly

Apr 5, 2009, 05:39 PM

Does the 90-day regular phone support start when you first call them too?

That's what I meant. They ask for a Mac serial number and nothing else that I can recall about when I bought it. For repairs they may demand more, but I'm not sure since this has happened to me only once.

Who calls phone support anyway? Is it for software problems? It seems worthless for experienced Mac users.

I think I've called them twice in ten years. The last time was actually fairly recently, when Mail screwed up migrating from Tiger to Leopard and I thought all of my mail was lost. The solution was obscure but tech support walked me through it. All they requested was a Mac serial number. Now that I think of it, I should not even have required a serial number, since I'd just bought the Leopard upgrade and was calling for support on that, not the Mac.

In my (limited) experience, Apple is really flexible about providing tech support. They don't seem to charge if you can give them any good reason why they shouldn't.

txnoob

Apr 5, 2009, 05:49 PM

It was worth it for this guy.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=681329

Dunmail

Apr 6, 2009, 03:53 AM

I didn't realise quite what a contentious issue this was:eek:

It's like gambling, we all hope that we made the right choice and go home a winner.

Insurance of any kind is very, very similar to gambling. In effect you are saying "I'm laying odds against this event happening in the next year". So you could place a bet saying "I won't have a heart attack in the next year" and the bookie (don't know what the term is in the USA) will work out the odds, the cost to them should you have a heart attack and determine what stake you need to place.

Extended warranties are definitely a big money spinner, particularly on household electricals - my wife bought a Dyson vacuum cleaner from one of the major UK electrical chain stores, lots of pressure to buy an extended warranty "beyond the basic 12 months". We declined. Got home, opened the sealed plastic bag containing the instructions and warranty to find that Dyson have a standard 24 month warranty.

These days if I shop from one of these stores I make a habit of saying "If you mention extended warranties I'll walk out of the door without buying". A bit unfair on the member of staff concerned as they get a (significant) proportion of their wages from selling such schemes. The other thing to say is "so you don't expect this product to last more than a year?". Takes quite a bit of explaining :)

Anyway, still waiting for my iMac :( Seems to have been caught up in the glut of orders and the delivery has been put back by ten days.

IJ Reilly

Apr 6, 2009, 10:29 AM

Insurance of any kind is very, very similar to gambling. In effect you are saying "I'm laying odds against this event happening in the next year".

It is similar to gambling, but gambling in reverse. The insurance company is betting that the bad event won't occur; you as the insurance purchaser are betting that it will. Of course the insurance company knows the odds, and prices the bet accordingly. I understand why people buy life insurance, but that has to be one of the more peculiar wagers anyone can make.

Yes, "bookies" in this country too, but operating illegally here for the most part. (Except for insurance companies of course -- that kind of book-making is perfectly legal!)

neil1980

Apr 6, 2009, 10:39 AM

I was looking all over the place for this, and yes, apparently it's a UK only thing. :( Looks like I still need Applecare... The ebay seller seems to receive quite good feedback from buyers.

After bad experiences with my last two laptops (£800+ Vaio and a £400 odd Acer) both lasting 13 months! I decided to go for Applecare with my macbook.

I qualify for the UK Higher Education but looking at it I thought the 36 month warranty was a bit sketchy seeing as the only reference I could find was one line of a terms and conditions thing.

Anyway I opted to pay extra and think it was worth it for the piece of mind even if it ran faultlessly for 3 years.

Jackintosh

Apr 6, 2009, 10:47 AM

After bad experiences with my last two laptops (£800+ Vaio and a £400 odd Acer) both lasting 13 months! I decided to go for Applecare with my macbook.

I qualify for the UK Higher Education but looking at it I thought the 36 month warranty was a bit sketchy seeing as the only reference I could find was one line of a terms and conditions thing.

Anyway I opted to pay extra and think it was worth it for the piece of mind even if it ran faultlessly for 3 years.

That would be peace of mind. But I have to agree. People here are trashing insurance and equating it to gambling. You get no peace of mind with gambling. And it's funny, everybody here couldn't do without insurance, whether for health, house, car, etc. Yes, those things are more important than a computer, but it's all insurance nevertheless, just a matter of degree. Some people want to insure more than just those basics, and for them it's worth it.

IJ Reilly

Apr 6, 2009, 11:10 AM

drjsway

Apr 6, 2009, 05:46 PM

It is similar to gambling, but gambling in reverse. The insurance company is betting that the bad event won't occur; you as the insurance purchaser are betting that it will.

Why would you bet for something bad to happen? In Vegas, you bet for something good to happen. People who say it gives them "peace of mind" are too pessimistic. Are you really going to worry constantly about a computer? Even if you are struggling financially, losing $1000-$2000 is not the end of the world, especially when you are guaranteed at least 1 year of use (2 when paying by credit card). And especially on something that depreciates in value as fast as a computer.

After bad experiences with my last two laptops (£800+ Vaio and a £400 odd Acer) both lasting 13 months! I decided to go for Applecare with my macbook.

This should give you even more reason NOT to get it. The odds of it happening 3 times in a row are extremely low. Let's say one out of every ten computers need repair. 1/10 x 1/10 x 1/10 = 1/1000 or .1%.

Even if you argue the odds are much higher, that 1 out of every 3 need repair. 1/3 x 1/3 x 1/3 = 1/27 or 3.7%.

jmpage2

Apr 6, 2009, 07:20 PM

Why would you bet for something bad to happen? In Vegas, you bet for something good to happen. People who say it gives them "peace of mind" are too pessimistic. Are you really going to worry constantly about a computer? Even if you are struggling financially, losing $1000-$2000 is not the end of the world, especially when you are guaranteed at least 1 year of use (2 when paying by credit card). And especially on something that depreciates in value as fast as a computer.

Let's say that you buy a $2,000 computer and don't have the funds to immediately replace it if it were to have a catastrophic failure. Additionally you use said computer for real work and can't afford to go with no computer for 4-6 months while you accumulate the needed funds to replace the machine.

Suddenly $65 of insurance for said $2,000 computer is a not such a bad idea.

Similarly, I could replace my very expensive Audi A4 if something bad happened to it, but I probably wouldn't want to just write a check for something like that. Hence, it's fully insured.

Jackintosh

Apr 6, 2009, 07:43 PM

It's not a question of "importance," it's a question of whether you'd be able to handle the financial loss should it occur. This is why people insure their homes, their cars, and their health. Insuring against losses you could easily afford to pay yourself is over-insuring. It is not "trashing" the concept of insurance. But this has been explained several times already.

You keep missing the point. It IS a question of what's important to you, in protecting against loss. If you can't do without a computer and don't want the risk of shelling out to fix it during years 2-3, Applecare is worth it. If a computer's not that important, at least not as important as health insurance, then you take the risk.

Although paying $500 to fix a $1200 computer may be affordable, that's not always the point with insurance. What value do you get (if that happens) out of your original $1200 investment to get hit with a $500 repair bill? Pretty poor value. Applecare reduces the risk, if you don't want to take that risk.

How many times is this going to go back and forth? Everyone's repeating the same thing, just using different wording. It's as if one side always wants to get the last word in, even though it won't convince the other side.

drjsway

Apr 6, 2009, 10:24 PM

Let's say that you buy a $2,000 computer and don't have the funds to immediately replace it if it were to have a catastrophic failure. Additionally you use said computer for real work and can't afford to go with no computer for 4-6 months while you accumulate the needed funds to replace the machine.

Suddenly $65 of insurance for said $2,000 computer is a not such a bad idea.

The $65 mentioned before is for Mac Mini. You're not going to find $65 AppleCare for a $2000 computer.

If you don't have the funds to replace it, you probably shouldn't be buying a $2000 computer in the first place. No one should spend their life savings on a computer or have to save 4-6 months to buy one. No wonder so many people are in debt. People should stop buying things they can't afford.

Mike in Kansas

Apr 6, 2009, 10:33 PM

This should give you even more reason NOT to get it. The odds of it happening 3 times in a row are extremely low. Let's say one out of every ten computers need repair. 1/10 x 1/10 x 1/10 = 1/1000 or .1%.

Even if you argue the odds are much higher, that 1 out of every 3 need repair. 1/3 x 1/3 x 1/3 = 1/27 or 3.7%.

Statistics have no memory. Whether it's your first computer, or your 100th, you still have a 10% chance that it needs to be repaired. The odds of it happening 3 times in a row BEFORE you get that first computer is 0.1%; the odds that is happens AGAIN after buying two that fail, or two that don't fail, is STILL 1/10.

You're starting to sound like a zealot, and discounting all opinions except your own. Give it a rest. If someone can insure an $1800 machine for $75 for three years (which will still be worth $1000 based on current eBay auctions and Craigslist postings) why are you so adamant that it's a cut and dried bad deal? You are making the blanket statement that ALL service contracts are a bad deal regardless of their cost and what they are protecting. How can you be so black and white?

Mike in Kansas

Apr 6, 2009, 10:36 PM

The $65 mentioned before is for Mac Mini. You're not going to find $65 AppleCare for a $2000 computer.

No, but you'll find $77 Applecare for up to a $2,200 (sorry, I meant $2,199) computer...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Applecare-Warranty-plan-for-Apple-iMac-Price-Guarantee_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1205Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a1Q7 c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3911Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem290308273735QQitemZ290308273735QQptZLHQ5fDef aultDomainQ5f0QQsalenotsupported

Mike in Kansas

Apr 6, 2009, 10:40 PM

No one should spend their life savings on a computer or have to save 4-6 months to buy one. No wonder so many people are in debt. People should stop buying things they can't afford.

What's wrong with saving 4-6 months to buy something? Better than putting it on plastic. What's the problem - if you have to save up to drop $2000 on a computer then you don't deserve to get one? Sounds a bit elitist to me... take your snobbery somewhere else.

jmpage2

Apr 6, 2009, 11:42 PM

The $65 mentioned before is for Mac Mini. You're not going to find $65 AppleCare for a $2000 computer.

If you don't have the funds to replace it, you probably shouldn't be buying a $2000 computer in the first place. No one should spend their life savings on a computer or have to save 4-6 months to buy one. No wonder so many people are in debt. People should stop buying things they can't afford.

So where do you draw the line? If you don't have enough cash to pay for a new car without financing it you should not get one of those either?

I pay cash for most of my purchases, even large ones, but I did have to finance my home as I didn't have hundreds of thousands of dollars lying around.

Sounds a bit as though you feel that those who can't afford to pay for a $2000 computer and self insure it (have another $2000 lying around to replace said computer if it breaks a day after warranty) that they don't deserve one.

jmpage2

Apr 6, 2009, 11:43 PM

drjsway

Apr 6, 2009, 11:53 PM

What's wrong with saving 4-6 months to buy something? Better than putting it on plastic. What's the problem - if you have to save up to drop $2000 on a computer then you don't deserve to get one? Sounds a bit elitist to me... take your snobbery somewhere else.

I wasn't trying to sound elitist and I apologize if that's how I came off. I just don't think people should sacrifice the quality of their life for a computer.

Everything we do is ultimately to improve the quality of our life. We only have one life and we want the best life possible.

If people are saving 4-6 months for a computer, how are they doing it? Are they going out with friends less? Are they eating lower quality food (Ramen, McDonalds)? Are they working longer hours? Are they traveling less? There is a hierarchy of needs and food, sleep, friendship/intimacy, financial security, all rank higher than material things. If you need to save 4-6 months, most likely you are sacrificing at least one of the most essential needs.

Back in college, I saved for big electronics purchases all the time. Looking back, I regretted it. I wished I ate better and had more fun. Now, I only get electronics/computers that I afford to buy on impulse. If I need to think a long time about the purchase financially, then I'll probably sacrificing my quality of life if I get it.

IJ Reilly

Apr 6, 2009, 11:58 PM

You keep missing the point. It IS a question of what's important to you, in protecting against loss. If you can't do without a computer and don't want the risk of shelling out to fix it during years 2-3, Applecare is worth it. If a computer's not that important, at least not as important as health insurance, then you take the risk.

Although paying $500 to fix a $1200 computer may be affordable, that's not always the point with insurance. What value do you get (if that happens) out of your original $1200 investment to get hit with a $500 repair bill? Pretty poor value. Applecare reduces the risk, if you don't want to take that risk.

The point of insurance is to pay for losses you could not otherwise afford to pay if they occurred. That has always been the point of insurance, at least for people who understand the financial side of it. But I've said this several times. I don't care about the last word. In fact, I'm done.

jmpage2

Apr 7, 2009, 12:03 AM

I wasn't trying to sound elitist and I apologize if that's how I came off. I just don't think people should sacrifice the quality of their life for a computer.

Everything we do is ultimately to improve the quality of our life. We only have one life and we want the best life possible.

If people are saving 4-6 months for a computer, how are they doing it? Are they going out with friends less? Are they eating lower quality food (Ramen, McDonalds)? Are they working longer hours? Are they traveling less? There is a hierarchy of needs and food, sleep, friendship/intimacy, financial security, all rank higher than material things. If you need to save 4-6 months, most likely you are sacrificing at least one of the most essential needs.

Back in college, I saved for big electronics purchases all the time. Looking back, I regretted it. I wished I ate better and had more fun. Now, I only get electronics/computers that I afford to buy on impulse. If I need to think a long time about the purchase financially, then I'll probably sacrificing my quality of life if I get it.

I think you fail to appreciate that with an average income of around $30K a year the typical family can't afford to pay for any computer purchase as an impulse. Spending $1000-$2000 on a computer that the family can use for the next 3-5 years will likely take planning and saving but this does not make it a non-worthwhile investment.

A family who does have to save and make sacrifices to get a computer is often doing it because they want their kids to do better in school, be more competitive for job skills, etc.

For such people $70 for insurance on a $1000-$2000 purchase is almost a no brainer.

While I'm thankful that I can pay for such a toy purchase with cash funds and no real pain, I also appreciate that 99% of individuals who need a computer cannot do so.

drjsway

Apr 7, 2009, 12:30 AM

I think you fail to appreciate that with an average income of around $30K a year the typical family can't afford to pay for any computer purchase as an impulse. Spending $1000-$2000 on a computer that the family can use for the next 3-5 years will likely take planning and saving but this does not make it a non-worthwhile investment.

A family who does have to save and make sacrifices to get a computer is often doing it because they want their kids to do better in school, be more competitive for job skills, etc.

For such people $70 for insurance on a $1000-$2000 purchase is almost a no brainer.

While I'm thankful that I can pay for such a toy purchase with cash funds and no real pain, I also appreciate that 99% of individuals who need a computer cannot do so.

Maybe I'm just financially conservative but I don't think any $30k/year family needs a $1000-$2000 computer. A cheap Dell is fine. People obsess over specs here but unless you're gaming or editing video/photos professionally, any new PC will fulfill your needs. Every PC handles the internet, which is what you need for your child to do better in school, etc.

My friend has a $300 netbook as his only PC and he even does occasional video encoding on it. He has a good job and could definitely afford better, but he likes that it's cheap and he can toss it around. Fear/worry also lowers the quality of your life. I remember when I was younger, I saved a long time for a very expensive high-end laptop. I babied that thing, always trying to make sure it was perfect, using it very carefully. This made the experience much less enjoyable than it should've been. There was a lot of fear/worry because I knew if something happened to it, I'd be screwed.

OS X is great and all but I don't have a problem with Windows either. I admit, the main reason I buy macs is because they look good. It fulfills my aesthetics needs but that's less important than essential needs. These days, there is a good computer for every income bracket and it does not need to be a huge investment.

C'mon, most people that save for expensive macs are not families. They are the people that watch Steve's keynotes and go "Oh my god, I must have that even though I probably don't need it and need to eat ramen every day for three months" If you are one of these people, go and spring for AppleCare. Otherwise, you might have to eat ramen for three more months.

drjsway

Apr 7, 2009, 01:22 AM

Statistics have no memory. Whether it's your first computer, or your 100th, you still have a 10% chance that it needs to be repaired. The odds of it happening 3 times in a row BEFORE you get that first computer is 0.1%; the odds that is happens AGAIN after buying two that fail, or two that don't fail, is STILL 1/10.

Yes, statistics have no memory but if three of your last laptops failed at 13 months, wouldn't you still think "I have the worst luck"?

You're starting to sound like a zealot, and discounting all opinions except your own. Give it a rest. If someone can insure an $1800 machine for $75 for three years (which will still be worth $1000 based on current eBay auctions and Craigslist postings) why are you so adamant that it's a cut and dried bad deal? You are making the blanket statement that ALL service contracts are a bad deal regardless of their cost and what they are protecting. How can you be so black and white?

How am I discounting all opinions when I respond to all of them? The reason I make such a blanket statement is because if it were a good deal, they wouldn't be offering it. Period. It's a business. Apple allows reselling on eBay so even at $75, it is still profitable and remember that the resellers get a cut of that too. Also, for $75, you are only buying 2 years not 3 (1 year if your credit card covers the second year).

I have no problems with people wanting it for "peace of mind" but it's not financially wise and it won't save them money if they keep buying it. That is a fact, not an opinion.

The biggest problem I have is the profit margin. Personally, I think AppleCare should be non-profit. Apple should charge enough for them to break even. This is different from, let's say, Best Buy or Circuit City's extended warranties. They are insuring a third party product. Apple is insuring their own product. They make something, they sell it to you, then they sell you a service contract with a huge profit margin, and they will only service the product if the problem was their fault in the first place (they don't cover accidental damage or anything you do to your machine).

Who else sees something wrong with that?

WeegieMac

Apr 7, 2009, 02:47 AM

You get one year of AppleCare as standard with every new machine, right?

The AppleCare you buy seperate adds another two years onto your existing "supplied" year?

And, am I right in that you have until one year from purchase to extend/buy AppleCare?

Nordichund

Apr 7, 2009, 02:58 AM

Well I bought Apple Care for my Mac Pro and MBP for a third of the price on ebay, only to learn that here in Norway all electrical equipment bought from any retailer in Norway, including the Apple Online store has to be guaranteed for FIVE years. Yes five years. Apparantly the Norwegian consumer dept. has given Apple a very hard time over the years, even causing them to change the way they sell iTunes in Europe.
I friend of mine with a 3 year old iMac which broke down just took it into an Apple store the other month and was given a brand new one in exchange. So it does work.
Live and learn :o

Mike in Kansas

Apr 7, 2009, 07:04 AM

How am I discounting all opinions when I respond to all of them? The reason I make such a blanket statement is because if it were a good deal, they wouldn't be offering it. Period. It's a business.

Then I guess by extension all of the hardware they sell isn't a good deal either, because they offer that too. But you have no problem buying it; heck, you even stated that you buy it more for the aesthetics than the performance. How is THAT financially wise? I find it curious that you rail against Apple Care, but have no problem buying a machine that the majority of the world thinks is over-priced and under-powered. Who else sees something wrong in THAT?

Mike in Kansas

Apr 7, 2009, 07:17 AM

Maybe I'm just financially conservative but I don't think any $30k/year family needs a $1000-$2000 computer. A cheap Dell is fine.

I remember when I was younger, I saved a long time for a very expensive high-end laptop. I babied that thing, always trying to make sure it was perfect, using it very carefully. This made the experience much less enjoyable than it should've been. There was a lot of fear/worry because I knew if something happened to it, I'd be screwed.

These sound like value judgements and not "facts", as you keep referring to them as. Who are you to decide what a person "needs" and "doesn't need" based on their income? If they are willing to sacrifice for something, and then they get great pleasure in what they eventually purchase, great for them. Just because you have a hang-up about that don't go imposing your issues on to them.

I can assure you, even though it takes me some time to accumulate the cash for my "toys" like a Mac, a good DSLR, good lenses, etc., I don't obsess over possibly damaging them, because I purchased them to USE them, not have them for badges. And it's paid for. If I can get an extended warranty for a complex electronic device that costs less then 5% of the replacement cost of the device, that sounds like a good deal given the mid term failure rate of electronic components.

Mike in Kansas

Apr 7, 2009, 07:19 AM

drjsway

Apr 7, 2009, 08:05 AM

Then I guess by extension all of the hardware they sell isn't a good deal either, because they offer that too. But you have no problem buying it; heck, you even stated that you buy it more for the aesthetics than the performance. How is THAT financially wise? I find it curious that you rail against Apple Care, but have no problem buying a machine that the majority of the world thinks is over-priced and under-powered. Who else sees something wrong in THAT?

Because when I buy hardware, I get hardware. When I buy for aesthetics, I get aesthetics. When I buy AppleCare, there's a 90% chance I get nothing.

You honestly don't see something wrong with Apple selling a service that only covers their own defects and making a profit off it? Dell and many others offer accidental damage. Is it not reasonable to buy buy hardware and expect it to work for three years without it breaking? And if it does break, is it not reasonable to have the manufacturer stand by their hardware?

drjsway

Apr 7, 2009, 08:10 AM

These sound like value judgements and not "facts", as you keep referring to them as. Who are you to decide what a person "needs" and "doesn't need" based on their income? If they are willing to sacrifice for something, and then they get great pleasure in what they eventually purchase, great for them. Just because you have a hang-up about that don't go imposing your issues on to them.

These are value judgements and I never said otherwise. The only thing I claimed as fact is that extended warranties are not financially wise in the long run. Everything else is opinion and we are only debating here so I don't know why you feel it's necessary to make it personal in numerous posts now.

Mike in Kansas

Apr 7, 2009, 08:54 AM

You honestly don't see something wrong with Apple selling a service that only covers their own defects and making a profit off it? Dell and many others offer accidental damage. Is it not reasonable to buy buy hardware and expect it to work for three years without it breaking? And if it does break, is it not reasonable to have the manufacturer stand by their hardware?

Because a computer consists of many many parts that aren't manufactured by the computer builder, you need to worry about component failures much more so than the computer manufacturer's "own defects". Apple is offering assurance against components that THEY purchase, not just assurance against the act of putting the computer together.

Yes, Dell does offer accidental damage, and that is an additional cost above and beyond their extended non-accidental warranty, which is an additional cost above and beyond their standard non-accidental included 1 year warranty. Don't make it sound like their standard defect warranty is any different than Apple's; it's a 1-year non-accidental damage warranty.

Mike in Kansas

Apr 7, 2009, 09:11 AM

The only thing I claimed as fact is that extended warranties are not financially wise in the long run. Everything else is opinion and we are only debating here so I don't know why you feel it's necessary to make it personal in numerous posts now.

But that's not "fact", it's conjecture. It depends on the cost of the extended warranty, the expected life of what you are covering, and the replacement cost. That's my whole point. To make the blanket statement that "extended warranties are not financially wise" and call it a fact is just wrong. I don't care WHO says it - Consumer Reports, Dave Ramsey, etc. They are making a generalization. Now, the PRACTICE of upselling extended warranties to ignorant consumers is wrong, and many places will gouge you during the transaction. However, to say that all extended warranties are not financially wise is not a fact, it's an opinion.

That's like the often misquoted line "money is the root of all evil", when the REAL quote is "the LOVE of money is the root of all evil". Money by itself isn't bad. Extended warranties by themselves are not bad. It is situationally dependent.

Nothing personal in this round... ;)

drjsway

Apr 7, 2009, 09:49 AM

Because a computer consists of many many parts that aren't manufactured by the computer builder, you need to worry about component failures much more so than the computer manufacturer's "own defects". Apple is offering assurance against components that THEY purchase, not just assurance against the act of putting the computer together.

Okay, I concede the point that Apple is insuring third party components in addition to their own.

Question: Can you use the warranty of the component's manufacturer? For example, Apple uses Toshiba HDDs. Toshiba offers a 3-year warranty on their HDDs. If my HDD fails, can I contact Toshiba directly?

But that's not "fact", it's conjecture. It depends on the cost of the extended warranty, the expected life of what you are covering, and the replacement cost. That's my whole point. To make the blanket statement that "extended warranties are not financially wise" and call it a fact is just wrong.

I define "financially wise" as something you are more likely to benefit from financially than not. I will concede that it may make sense in certain situations. Using this definition, all insurance, including life/health/home/car etc., is not financially wise, but it may still make sense for many people. It is still a fact that it's not financially wise.

Just curious, do you get extended warranties on all your electronics? If so, how often have you taken advantage of them? This is only my personal experience but I have bought many LCDs, rear projection TVs, projectors, A/V receivers, sound systems, pcs, DVD/HD-DVD/Blu Ray players, etc., and never once has any of these components failed in the extended warranty period. I have broken 2 laptops in my day, due to my own clumsiness.

Nothing personal in this round... ;)

Thank you.

Mike in Kansas

Apr 7, 2009, 10:48 AM

Just curious, do you get extended warranties on all your electronics?

I have never purchased an extended warranty on any electronic - yet. Most of them (for me) have been on the verge of being "disposable" (various P&S cameras, iPods, consumer video camera, previous PC's, etc.), with the exception of our three new computers (a 20" and 24" iMac and a Toshiba laptop) and my DSLR (Nikon D300). I will probably get eBay Apple Care for both of my iMacs, but probably not for the laptop as it was (relatively) cheap and can be replaced (relatively) cheaply.

As I do video and photo production on my iMac, I need something with some decent processing power. My 24"/2.8 iMac has been my most expensive electronic purchase to date, even more than my DSLR. The fact that it is an all-in-one excaberates the issue; I have replaced power supplies, fans, NIC cards, RAM, etc. on my prior "beige boxes", but really don't want to go poking around inside my iMac. Plus, as everything seems to be integrated, it's not as user friendly to work on.

My company puts service contracts on all the laptops and desktops we lease, especially for remote users like myself. It has been well worth it. I have had to use these service contracts more often than I have would have expected. For just my 2-1/2 year old Dell Latitude alone, it has had 2 mobo's replaced (integrated NIC failures ), 1 keyboard replaced, 1 RAM stick replaced, and the bezel around the screen replaced. I think I have had to have had work done on every laptop I have gotten for work (3 Dell Latitudes, an IBM Thinkpad, and some other IBM laptop over the past 12 years), so the service contracts definitely were worth it.

Major appliances are another area where extended warranties are often pushed and debated; I have never purchased one with the exception of getting one for a new fridge. The retailer had a deal on a 5 year warranty and the cost of entry was $50 for a $2400 fridge. Although statistics have no memory (ha ha!) I have had 3 fridges in a row fail before 5 years, so to me it was worth it. They even had a clause that insures the food inside the fridge!

trip1ex

Apr 7, 2009, 10:50 AM

Jackintosh

Apr 7, 2009, 11:15 AM

Many credit cards double warranties for items purchased with them.

I know mine does or at least used to. I haven't checked in awhile. I might have a 2-yr warranty on my iMac. I wonder if that means AppleCAre would be doubled too? Actually most have a maximum of 1 additional year. Still would that mean an extra year for the iMac and for Applecare if purchased with a credit card that extends warranties?

If you buy off Ebay Applecare is a decent deal. $87 for an iMac. Phone support included so you can call them up anytime. Also it's a selling point when you get rid of your iMac which means you can recoup some of the cost of the warranty.

That's true and a good point. But have you ever tried to actually use extended warranty service from a credit card company? It's a nightmare. You have to send in an application for warranty reimbursement, provide detailed documentation, write up a statement of facts and circumstances, and then they may in the end deny your request based on a technicality.

You won't get Applecare phone support from a credit card company, and they won't understand most of what you're issue is or what you're talking about. So I see credit card extended warranties in this case as more PR hype from them than anything useful.

aristobrat

Apr 7, 2009, 11:28 AM

Question: Can you use the warranty of the component's manufacturer? For example, Apple uses Toshiba HDDs. Toshiba offers a 3-year warranty on their HDDs. If my HDD fails, can I contact Toshiba directly?
No. When an OEM like Toshiba sells parts to companies like Apple, the parts have a different model number that indicates that Toshiba is not responsible for the warranty.

jmpage2

Apr 7, 2009, 03:25 PM

Because when I buy hardware, I get hardware. When I buy for aesthetics, I get aesthetics. When I buy AppleCare, there's a 90% chance I get nothing.

You honestly don't see something wrong with Apple selling a service that only covers their own defects and making a profit off it? Dell and many others offer accidental damage. Is it not reasonable to buy buy hardware and expect it to work for three years without it breaking? And if it does break, is it not reasonable to have the manufacturer stand by their hardware?

Actually, that's not entirely correct. Apple Care extends the technical support on the product from the initial 90 days to the full 3 years of the Apple Care contract.

People will call the technical support line with Apple Care for things that have nothing to do with product defects, questions such as "how do I migrate my iPhoto library" and they will get support at no cost.

The profit margins built in to Apple Care do help Apple provide this tech support at a reasonable cost, as opposed to calling MS for any reason with any of their products and having to pay a minimum $100 incident fee just to talk to a human.

If that has no value for you then fine, but to claim that Apple is getting rich off of maintenance contracts is laughable.

Another point of fact is that the bulk of Apple tech support is still based out of the US. While US tech support operations have their issues, I will take them over calling over seas any day of the weak and it's certainly worth a small price premium for that benefit alone.

txnoob

Apr 7, 2009, 04:16 PM

Another point of fact is that the bulk of Apple tech support is still based out of the US. While US tech support operations have their issues, I will take them over calling over seas any day of the weak and it's certainly worth a small price premium for that benefit alone.

You hit the nail on the head right there. I commend Apple for this.

Shaun.P

Apr 7, 2009, 04:23 PM

I would recommend AppleCare.

Apple has (usually) outstanding customer service when it comes to repairs / replacement. You can usually pick it up on eBay marginally cheaper than what Apple charges.

macffooky

Apr 8, 2009, 03:04 AM

I received an email receipt for the repairs to my 2006 24" iMac yesterday, a small matter of £1250 ($1843). I know Apple charge a premium for their repairs but that would have been a hefty bill from anyone (new display, inverter, logic board, GPU, HD and a left fan).

"I'm an AppleCare and I'm bloody glad about it"

rich.smith

Apr 8, 2009, 06:38 AM

As an economic proposition, it's not cheap. And as I've said a couple of times before, Apple inflates the cost of these repairs, which gives people who buy AppleCare the impression that they're getting value for money.

You have no way of knowing Apple's motivation, cost structure, or any other information that determines the cost of repairs.

In any case, the statement I made holds true. If you are someone who can't afford to replace or repair your computer if it breaks (and know that Apple isn't the only place where you can have it repaired), then an extended warranty may be something to consider.

This should be the only reason for buying AppleCare. Clearly more people can afford to pay for AppleCare than replace or repair a computer.

gasport

Apr 8, 2009, 07:26 AM

Interestingly, I did bite and got AppleCare on Ebay for under $80. Then I read about some credit card companies doubling the warranty. I wrote to my credit card company (Chase) and got the following response. I have purchased many items and unfortunately, never took advantage of the service. You better believe from now on I am going to register every product with them. I have a digital camera that is now out of 1 year warranty and stopped working. I would still be covered if I did take advantage of the free service. You can actually get extended warranties but I am not sure of the cost of that. So I am assuming my new iMac will be covered for 2 years. I am going to inquire today to see if it is just repair or if it includes the telephone support (which is 3 months, I believe). This will be interesting as I received a note from Apple saying my 1 year warranty on my Macbook was about to expire and wanted me to buy AppleCare.:apple:

Your Visa card carries free warranty service. Visa's
Warranty Manager Service offers:

· A registration service to keep track of warranties and
provide key information about coverage when Cardmembers
need it. Cardmembers are encouraged to send in sales
receipts and warranty information so that Visa can keep
documents on file for you. This will ensure hassle-free
arrangement for repair.

· Extended Warranty Protection that doubles the free
repair period under the original manufacturer's written
U.S. repair warranty up to one additional year. This
protection is for eligible warranties of three years or
less when the item is purchased entirely with an eligible
Chase Visa credit card.

jmpage2

Apr 8, 2009, 08:09 AM

You get no tech support with the credit card extension of your warranty though, just break-fix type support for actual repairs and it's usually done through a reimbursement process, requires you to do additional paperwork, etc.

Shivetya

Apr 11, 2009, 08:12 AM

Well I was cleaning up the office and came across a receipt that puts it all into perspective.

I have an iMac (white/24/2.16c2d/7600gt) and it died one day.

Well the repair receipt lists the following costs

Part credit 661-4293 was 1050.00
Part credit 661-4180 was 235.77

They did list labor so might I assume the second line was labor, well the first was for the logic board and video card that fried.

1285.77 versus whatever I actually paid for Applecare

JayLenochiniMac

Apr 11, 2009, 09:58 AM

Many credit cards double warranties for items purchased with them.

I know mine does or at least used to. I haven't checked in awhile. I might have a 2-yr warranty on my iMac. I wonder if that means AppleCAre would be doubled too? Actually most have a maximum of 1 additional year. Still would that mean an extra year for the iMac and for Applecare if purchased with a credit card that extends warranties?

If you charge both the computer and Applecare to an American Express card, American Express will mirror the original 1st year warranty at the end of the third year, so you'd get a total of 4 years of protection. Mastercard unfortunately will only double the warranty on warranties of 1 year or less (e.g. iPhone). VISA is better than Mastercard and will extend the terms of warranties of three years or less, but I can't seem to find any information on what happens if you purchase Applecare with it (does Applecare nullify it?).

AmEx seems to be the best card to use for extended warranty protection.

JayLenochiniMac

Apr 11, 2009, 10:04 AM

Interestingly, I did bite and got AppleCare on Ebay for under $80. Then I read about some credit card companies doubling the warranty. I wrote to my credit card company (Chase) and got the following response. I have purchased many items and unfortunately, never took advantage of the service. You better believe from now on I am going to register every product with them. I have a digital camera that is now out of 1 year warranty and stopped working. I would still be covered if I did take advantage of the free service. You can actually get extended warranties but I am not sure of the cost of that. So I am assuming my new iMac will be covered for 2 years. I am going to inquire today to see if it is just repair or if it includes the telephone support (which is 3 months, I believe). This will be interesting as I received a note from Apple saying my 1 year warranty on my Macbook was about to expire and wanted me to buy AppleCare.:apple:

Gasport, do you know what happens if you charge both the machine and Applecare to VISA? I know with AmEx it'll mirror the original first year warranty at the end of third year (when Applecare expires) to give you 4 years of protection, but does VISA do the same? Can't seem to find any information on what happens when you purchase a separate extended warranty with a product, but I do know that with some cards doing so will void the CC's extended warranty protection.

JayLenochiniMac

Apr 11, 2009, 10:11 AM

But have you ever tried to actually use extended warranty service from a credit card company? It's a nightmare. You have to send in an application for warranty reimbursement, provide detailed documentation, write up a statement of facts and circumstances, and then they may in the end deny your request based on a technicality.

Someone I know went through VISA for a broken PC and the paperwork requirements were a nightmare. They wanted the original receipt and stuff. American Express, on the other hand, didn't seem to require the original receipt from me when I used their extended warranty program for a broken dishwasher. All they did was look in their records and asked me "Did you purchase X on this date for this much money?" After all, why should a CC company require the original receipt if they already have a record of it?

brop52

Apr 11, 2009, 11:20 AM

Someone I know went through VISA for a broken PC and the paperwork requirements were a nightmare. They wanted the original receipt and stuff. American Express, on the other hand, didn't seem to require the original receipt from me when I used their extended warranty program for a broken dishwasher. All they did was look in their records and asked me "Did you purchase X on this date for this much money?" After all, why should a CC company require the original receipt if they already have a record of it?

This is the beauty of buying online. The receipts are all printable.

sgtbilko28

Apr 11, 2009, 02:46 PM

i used to manage an apple service centre. take it from me, applecare is your best friend.

buy it, register it and hope to never have to use it (mostly you don't), but on that day in 2 and half years time when one little circuit dies and fraks your logic board or the display start flickering, your going to be really pleased you spend a few hundred bucks on applecare for your imac.

the VAST MAJORITY of apple HARDWARE repairs cost more than applecare does

macffooky

Apr 13, 2009, 12:26 PM

I had a call last Saturday saying that the replacement screen for my 2006 24"er was not of acceptable quality so they would order another with pick up possible on maybe Wednesday. The Genius who was dealing with my case had told me that that the header on my HD was screwed, requiring a reformat but that the data could probably be rescued and this was reaffirmed in the phone call. When I received the email receipt it included an HD so I was a bit surprised/disappointed. I had been dreading the process as I was triple booting OS X/Ubuntu/XP and getting all three partitions off and on safely would not be much fun.

I went to pick up my repaired iMac from Regent St. today despite not having received a call that it was actually ready and was told that my machine had been "crewed" (sp ?) and they are going to give me a brand new iMac and my removed original HD.

Best £135 I ever spent and another very positive experience of Apple and their customer service.

WizardHunt

Apr 14, 2009, 01:41 AM

I'm not a fan of extended warranties (as much for the miss-selling of them as anything) and have avoided them for my PCs and not had reason to regret it.

So is Applecare worth it or should I save my cash?

I'm getting an iMac BTW

Dunmail

It is piece of mind that you are buying. Besides a investment like this needs to be protected. How would you feel if something happened to the Motherboard, not that it would happen, but if you had AppleCare then you are protected and covered. I would not buy a Mac without it. However you don't always have to buy it from Apple. You can get it cheaper from 3rd parties if you look for it. Sometimes saving up to $40 or more.

doublesupercool

Apr 16, 2009, 02:03 AM

A warning to double check your dates of purchase and warranty information with Apple directly, rather than using their online warranty checker:

https://selfsolve.apple.com/GetWarranty.do

I purchased my laptop while visiting my GF in Hong Kong. She put a deposit down on March 3 2008 and the computer then took several weeks to arrive due to wanting it customised (7200 hard drive and HD screen).

Apples online checker advised that my 12mth warranty would run out around 16th April 2009. As you may know, you have to register Applecare within the initial 12mth period. When my Applecare agreement was not accepted I disputed and Apple stated that my 12month warranty started on 2 March, the day before money had even been paid for a downpayment, let along actually getting the computer.

I have accepted that I have wasted my money on Applecare, though I could resell it I guess, but this is a warning for you to take precaution and actively check when your 12mth warranty period with Apple actually expires.

Matt

iboost79

Apr 16, 2009, 01:53 PM

I'll throw in my 2 cents as a former Apple employee. I see valid points on both sides. Applecare (APP) is worth it to some people and not worth it to others. Plain and simple. True, you can buy APP on eBay/Craigslist for a lot less than retail. Heck, I bought all my APP from eBay while I was working at Apple. I mean, I paid $150 for my MBP APP, whereas, as an employee, I'd be paying $260.

You should just ask yourself, "Is it worth it for ME?"

And for me, my MBP and iPhone was the only Apple product worth getting APP for. I never got it on my iPod Nano, iPod Shuffle, or my Mac Mini. Why didn't I get APP for my Mac Mini? I voided the warranty as soon as I bought it. The only thing APP would have covered was the Logic Board. I replaced the combo drive, RAM, hard drive, and Airport chip.