'Best' dSLR - Student - Advice/Recommendations?

[LERsince1991]

Hi,

So I've just realised I've got enough money to get a dSLR. I do photography B&W Film with an old Pentax K1000 at college. My friend has just bought some Canon dSLR and it's pretty good, but I think he spent quite a bit.

I've been looking around on the net and photography magazines but just wondering what people would recommend. I understand and can use rather a lot of settings so it doesn't have to be a consumer aimed camera.

I would like all the obvious things really, Hi-res (for large prints), hi quality pics, hi quality build, good features at a low price.

I've been looking into Pentax, Nikon and Canon... I don't like the 'look' of Sony cameras really. 'Look' meaning I don't think there any good compared to other camera makes in general. They seem to be more consumer based instead of professional, unlike Canon, Nikon and Pentax.

Just wondering what’s on the market really so any advice/recommendations?

Cheers,
Luke.

[djstarrock]

What's your budget?

[cube]

Check out the new Olympus E-620. It seems very interesting. I particularly like the lack of bulk for an stabilized body and the swivel LCD.
An amazing feature at this price is the autofocus fine tuning. One would have to buy at least a D300 for this. Maybe one can fine tune per focus point like the new E-30, but I am not sure (if it does, I don't know if the D300 is even capable of this!).

BTW, I am a Nikon/Kodak/Fuji user. I am always intrigued by the small Olympuses as a travel DSLR.

[gkarris]

^^^ I have an E-420 and it's great. I plan on using it with a Panasonic Leica Lens with O.I.S. (renting) to see how that works.

OP - buy a used or refurbished camera. People are upgrading all the time. I got a sweet deal on a used Canon 20D. Then you'll have extra funds for lenses and other stuff, while not breaking your budget.

[LERsince1991]

My budget is as low as possible... Around £300? but willing to spend more (as always) to get a great deal.

£300 seems alright for the Nikon range, but canon seems to start from £350.
I would like to get the body, normal lens and possibly macro lens for about £350-£400.
I don't like buying used equipment one bit :P
Anything wrong with the Nikon range, like D40 or D60? Jessops is selling them for comparitively low prices.

[cube]

You will have to spend around £200-£250 for a used D50 kit.

[cube]

If your not planning to get other than the kit lenses, it's possibly more appropriate to get a new D40 kit with full warranty (£260 at amazon).

[LERsince1991]

The Nikon D40 looks very good for the price but I don't like the fact it has 6MP. I would like to have some prints sort of A3 sizes so I would need about a minimum of 10million, sharp pixels for a good print.

The Nikon D60 looks cool though with 10M odd pixels. I know the pixels dont count for everything but I would like a higher res than 6M.

I plan on using 2 lens's. Normal lens which is included in the kits I believe and a macro lens. How much to macro lens's go for that fit the nikon D60 its compatible with AF-S and AF-I? (Yes I want auto-focus) Please :)

I also like to do shots with light trails in so long exposure times. I take it most dSLR's have this priority setting?

[cube]

Anything wrong with the Nikon range, like D40 or D60? Jessops is selling them for comparitively low prices.

The D40/D40x/D60 do not have an in-body AF motor, so older, non AF-S lenses, do not autofocus with them. That is more of an issue if you plan buying used, third-party, or some prime lenses. That's why people consider a used D50 as a better alternative.

But the compatibility of Nikon goes way back than that of Canon.

You diss Sony, but the DSLR system is in reality Minolta. There's an interesting kit for less than £260 at amazon, and the body has a stabilizer that works for ANY lens (not like Nikon and Canon, which have IS only in some lenses).

If you don't like buying used, the greater availability of such equipment for Nikon and Canon should not be an issue for you.

[techfreak85]

i have a d50. works great.

[iBookG4user]

If you go with Nikon, I'd heavily recommend that you do not get the D40/D60 line because you can't autofocus with any lenses that do not have a built in autofocus motor. That means you can't use any of the older prime and zoom lenses which are cheaper and still great quality. Last I checked the D40/60 can't autofocus about 1/3 of Nikon's line of lenses. I'd check to see if your budget can be stretched to get a used D80, which is one step above the D40/60 but can autofocus all of Nikon's lenses.

Canon's base dSLR on the other hand has no such problems. As for which camera system you want to go with, take a good look at the lens lineup in each of them. Canon and Nikon both have the most extensive lineup (Canon has a few more lenses, although they are pretty much equal), the other cameras don't match up quite as well. I personally wouldn't stray beyond either Canon or Nikon, as the support just isn't there for them. Canon and Nikon have been in the dSLR business longer and have had time to get their act together and get very solid systems, while the other newer competitors are just in the first few years and don't have everything quite there yet IMO.

I personally use Canon cameras right now, as the Super Telephotos are thousands cheaper. And while I believe that Canon has an edge over Nikon in the consumer range, which you are looking at, Nikon has the edge over Canon in the professional range. I'm actually considering the switch to Nikon because Canon won't come out with a dSLR that has speed and high ISO performance (But don't tell Canon that :D).

All in all, I'd recommend that you go with the 1000D, first because of the autofocus issue with the base Nikon cameras, and second because it is a very solid camera. If you want to go with Nikon, save a bit more and go with the D80 or D90 unless you don't plan on taking advantage of the great line of cheaper older lenses. I believe that Warehouse Express seems to have a pretty good deal on the 1000D here (http://www.warehouseexpress.com/product/default.aspx?sku=10000616). (Although I'm not too familiar with the prices in the UK)

[termina3]

Well, if you "don't like buying used equipment one bit" (which is foolish), then why not get a D40? Combining your small budget (at least for the near future) and your dislike of used gear, you'll only be buying plastic-consumer lenses anyways.

[LERsince1991]

Thanks for all the comments people, very quick and extremely helpful.

The Nikon D80 is well over budget so thats a no go... although it looks good.

The Canon EOS 1000D on the other hand looks rather cool and nearly in budget. Would this be compatible with the lens my dad has then, which is the camera I've been using lately for macro. I've just taken some photos of them and attached them to this post, EF lens's? (I would preffer the new lens's in the kits but its nice to know I can use the macro and zoom lens's I already have.

I already have a tripod so i didn't need that bundle but the one iBookG4user linked to was a good deal I think.

[Little HZ]

I'd recommend you look for a way to actually use the camera you are planning to buy ahead of time. My local camera store will rent out cameras, and then apply 90% of the rental fee toward purchase if you buy within a certain time frame (a month, I think ... ). In my case, I had narrowed my search to a Canon and a Nikon in the same price range. I was leaning slightly toward Canon, but when I actually spent time using the cameras, I found that the Nikon just fit better in my hand. It was striking to me how much more comfortable one felt over the other. This would be a very individual preference, of course, but in my case, anyway, I think it makes a big difference in how often I use my new camera (a D60, which I LOVE, btw ... ).

[iBookG4user]

Thanks for all the comments people, very quick and extremely helpful.

The Nikon D80 is well over budget so thats a no go... although it looks good.

The Canon EOS 1000D on the other hand looks rather cool and nearly in budget. Would this be compatible with the lens my dad has then, which is the camera I've been using lately for macro. I've just taken some photos of them and attached them to this post, EF lens's? (I would preffer the new lens's in the kits but its nice to know I can use the macro and zoom lens's I already have.

I already have a tripod so i didn't need that bundle but the one iBookG4user linked to was a good deal I think.

Yes, any EF lens will work, so all of those lenses that you show will work on the 1000D. That 28mm lens is pretty nice too. :)

[mcavjame]

The Canon EOS 1000D on the other hand looks rather cool and nearly in budget. Would this be compatible with the lens my dad has then, which is the camera I've been using lately for macro. I've just taken some photos of them and attached them to this post, EF lens's? (I would preffer the new lens's in the kits but its nice to know I can use the macro and zoom lens's I already have.


EF autofocus lenses work with the canon dslr. This was the biggest selling point for me when I got my canon.

Re used: I have since purchased a used speedlite flash and 70-200 L series lens for a steal. Try before you buy. Photographers change their gear to suit their needs, but they take care of their equipment.

[Phrasikleia]

Thanks for all the comments people, very quick and extremely helpful.

The Nikon D80 is well over budget so thats a no go... although it looks good.

The Canon EOS 1000D on the other hand looks rather cool and nearly in budget. Would this be compatible with the lens my dad has then, which is the camera I've been using lately for macro. I've just taken some photos of them and attached them to this post, EF lens's? (I would preffer the new lens's in the kits but its nice to know I can use the macro and zoom lens's I already have.

I already have a tripod so i didn't need that bundle but the one iBookG4user linked to was a good deal I think.

Yes, those are EF lenses, so they are compatible with any modern Canon DSLR. EF or EF-S lenses will work with the Canon 1000D. It's the "FD" line that won't work (without adapters and loss of functions).

[LERsince1991]

Ah thats great,

Ya my dad just said he got the 28mm lens along with everything else 19 years and 1 day ago. the 28mm lens was to take photos of the family on the sofa. :P

He said he knows someone at canon that is allowed to buy 1 camera a year so we might be able to get discount. He's also waited ages to be able to afford a dSLR so he might split the cost with me and go for the 450D

Is the 450D much better do you think than the 1000D?

[Ryan1524]

D90 or an old D80. You want something that will let you explore, without being too expensive initially. Spend more money on lenses. Get something with an f2 or less. Nikon or Canon really comes down to which one feels better in your hands, and whose menu system you like better, etc. They're both great cameras. And remember that you're buying into the system, not the camera.

[iBookG4user]

Ah thats great,

Ya my dad just said he got the 28mm lens along with everything else 19 years and 1 day ago. the 28mm lens was to take photos of the family on the sofa. :P

He said he knows someone at canon that is allowed to buy 1 camera a year so we might be able to get discount. He's also waited ages to be able to afford a dSLR so he might split the cost with me and go for the 450D

Is the 450D much better do you think than the 1000D?

The 450D is better than the 1000D, although most of the difference is related to MP count, autofocus and the LCD. You won't see a difference in the MP count honestly and the LCD resolution is the same, so it is just a bit bigger. Although the autofocus is where you'll see the biggest difference, as well as a slightly faster continuous shooting rate. And the 450D is built a bit better.

[cube]

Be sure to try those cameras in your hand before buying them, specially the lower-end Canons. Ideally, you would also play a long bit with the different controls as well.

If you were going to get a used D50, holding a D80 or D90 should give you enough of an idea, as the sizes are comparable (the D40/D40x/D60 are smaller because of the lack of AF motor).

Finally, don't forget to consider the Pentax K-m.

[NightGeometry]

Hi,
I don't like the 'look' of Sony cameras really. 'Look' meaning I don't think there any good compared to other camera makes in general. They seem to be more consumer based instead of professional, unlike Canon, Nikon and Pentax.


You do realise the Sony dSLR's are basically Minolta's don't you? The A200, which is about as cheap as you get, has in body stabilisation, and you get to look for all those classic old Minolta lenses. Unfortunately old Minolta lenses are going way back up in price nowadays.

[cube]

Finally, don't forget to consider the Pentax K-m.

Beware to check about the focus point selection issue. This could be considered a deal killer.

[LERsince1991]

I will look into them. i considered a few Pentax but since I have all the canon lenses and a possibility of getting the camera half price from a friend of my dads that works at canon. For about £230 the 1000D would be perfect or about £335 for the 450D hypathetically speaking if I can get the discount from the employee. If not i'll probably go for the 1000D anyway for £350, maybe £399 if I want a new lense because the ones we have are 19 years old and work fine but it would probably be a good idea to get the one with it for a good price and itll be in perfect condition obveously.

you guys are so much help

[leighonigar]

http://www.parkcameras.com/6919/Samsung-GX-10-Body---18-55mm-lens---50-200mm-lens.html is the absolute best deal I have seen in ages. Based on the pentax K10D, a good solid camera, and you can use pentax MF lenses.

[cube]

http://www.parkcameras.com/6919/Samsung-GX-10-Body---18-55mm-lens---50-200mm-lens.html is the absolute best deal I have seen in ages. Based on the pentax K10D, a good solid camera, and you can use pentax MF lenses.

Yeah, that's a D200-level weather-sealed camera. The previously mentioned cameras are toys compared to that (some maybe with better IQ, but nonetheless).

It's just not a metal body, like the D200 (it does have a metal frame).

[LERsince1991]

http://www.parkcameras.com/6919/Samsung-GX-10-Body---18-55mm-lens---50-200mm-lens.html is the absolute best deal I have seen in ages. Based on the pentax K10D, a good solid camera, and you can use pentax MF lenses.

Looks like a pretty good offer :P
Just wondering why it would be any better? In what way?

[cube]

Looks like a pretty good offer :P
Just wondering why it would be any better? In what way?

For me, to move from a D80 to a D200, or K100D to K10D (GX-10), the weather sealing is reason enough.

[leighonigar]

They also have it with the 18-55 alone for £320. I'd get both, they're so cheap.

Why do I think this is a good deal? What's a similar price? The EOS 1000D? As has been said - a toy by comparison, build, interface, viewfinder, will all be superior. This also has built in IS. If this was my budget - this is what I would get. Pentax lenses also seem to be cheaper than Can/Nik equivs and are pretty darned good.

Ultimately though, any of the SLRs you could buy are fine, the images out of any of the Canons, Nikons, Olympus, Pentax, Sony... are great. Hence it coming down to build and price.

[cube]

Ultimately though, any of the SLRs you could buy are fine, the images out of any of the Canons, Nikons, Olympus, Pentax, Sony... are great. Hence it coming down to build and price.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1020&message=26761131

[leighonigar]

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1020&message=26761131

What are you trying to say? I use an S5 actually...

[cube]

And I have an S3.

The point is that one cannot make blanket statements like "any one is great", and that more expensive does not necessarily mean better.

[leighonigar]

And I have an S3.

The point is that one cannot make blanket statements like "any one is great", and that more expensive does not necessarily mean better.

Did you mean to suggest that I had made an "any one is great" statement and that it was wrong? I stand by it, I don't think anyone of general usage and talent would have trouble with any of them, and seriously, are you suggesting the D3 is not astounding?

[cube]

From what I read, I always thought the D3 was great, but after seeing such a sample I have my doubts about replacing my Kodak 14n with a Nikon full frame, so I hope Fuji will make a full frame EXR.

[Phrasikleia]

I will look into them. i considered a few Pentax but since I have all the canon lenses and a possibility of getting the camera half price from a friend of my dads that works at canon. For about £230 the 1000D would be perfect or about £335 for the 450D hypathetically speaking if I can get the discount from the employee. If not i'll probably go for the 1000D anyway for £350, maybe £399 if I want a new lense because the ones we have are 19 years old and work fine but it would probably be a good idea to get the one with it for a good price and itll be in perfect condition obveously.

you guys are so much help

This information should end the discussion of which brand is right for the OP. He has three Canon EF lenses already, and he can get a huge discount on a new Canon from a Canon employee. He's on a student budget. Therefore he should get a Canon. Anyone starting from scratch with no lenses and no brand-specific discount should consider all brands, but the OP has one obvious choice here.

As for whether to get the 1000D or 450D, I think you should feel the grips on both before deciding. That slick, un-rubberized grip of the cheaper camera could be very bothersome.

[LERsince1991]

I'm seriously considering getting that samsung but aren't the macro lenses really expensive for it (and most cameras)?

[iBookG4user]

I'm seriously considering getting that samsung but aren't the macro lenses really expensive for it (and most cameras)?

The absolute cheapest lens you could get for macro is about £275 and is the Sigma 50mm macro. I would say that you should stick with canon if you can get those discounts and already have lenses available to you.

[alumac]

I bought my first DSLR a few months ago. Not very good yet but check out http://www.flickr.com/delicacy to get an idea of what the D60 can do. (Some photos are from my phone-cam).

I've liked it so far although I'm a little bummed that it doesn't do autobracketing. Research that to see if its important to you before u make a purchase.

[cube]

Don't forget to visit places like dpreview.com to check out the samples for the cameras you are considering, to confirm that you like the look of the images.

[LERsince1991]

The absolute cheapest lens you could get for macro is about £275 and is the Sigma 50mm macro. I would say that you should stick with canon if you can get those discounts and already have lenses available to you.

Ah. That would be the deal braker for me which is a shame. My macro lens isnt that great as it needs an attachment for it be a macro lens. Its a 100mm-300mm which isn't ideal but it does the job. Would have preffered a smaller macro lens.

Alumac, those pics look pretty cool.

Thanks everyone here! amazing help :P
So its down to the Canon 1000D or 450D. I guess If I can get the 1000D for £230 I'll go for that. it's probably not worth the extra £105 (if I can get the discount) for the 450D.
Which If I can get would be amazing :D
I will probably post here when I get one so you all know ;)

Cheers.

[leighonigar]

I'm not trying to be disparaging but I don't think the 100-300 or the 35-70 that the OP has are very good. I actually have the 35-70 myself (inherited) it's built very nicely but optically so-so. The 28mm may be good but it's easily sold. None of these lenses are macro lenses. The 18-55 and 50-200 mm lenses with the pentax will almost certainly give results better than these two pre-existing EF zooms.

Of course, if you want to stick with them, I am sure that you will have a lot of fun, but quality is not a reason to.

Edit - I also have the sigma 50mm macro, it is massively better than any 'Macro' zoom I have used. Plus, you can screw close up filters onto any zoom.

[Phrasikleia]

The 18-55 and 50-200 mm lenses with the pentax will almost certainly give results better than these two pre-existing EF zooms.

You're almost certainly correct, but he'll also get the kit lens with the 1000D, and it easily competes with the Pentax kit lens. So he'll have a really good 18-55, plus some longer zooms and a fast prime, all for £230 (about $340). Hard to beat that! :)

[LERsince1991]

I'm not trying to be disparaging but I don't think the 100-300 or the 35-70 that the OP has are very good. I actually have the 35-70 myself (inherited) it's built very nicely but optically so-so. The 28mm may be good but it's easily sold. None of these lenses are macro lenses. The 18-55 and 50-200 mm lenses with the pentax will almost certainly give results better than these two pre-existing EF zooms.

Of course, if you want to stick with them, I am sure that you will have a lot of fun, but quality is not a reason to.

Edit - I also have the sigma 50mm macro, it is massively better than any 'Macro' zoom I have used. Plus, you can screw close up filters onto any zoom.

Ya I agree its not a good 'macro' lense, it is however a hell of a lot cheaper than any macro lense, going on your prices. Personally I would have liked to get new lenses with the new camera but if I can't get a macro lense for less than the camera itself I may aswell get a Canon to use these lenses

[leighonigar]

You're almost certainly correct, but he'll also get the kit lens with the 1000D, and it easily competes with the Pentax kit lens. So he'll have a really good 18-55, plus some longer zooms and a fast prime, all for £230 (about $340). Hard to beat that! :)

If he can get the 1000D and the kit lens for £230 it is the best deal, yes. I am not knocking this but making a decision based upon the existence of these lenses is perhaps unwise, the 100-300 is sure to disappoint. http://photo.net/canon-eos-digital-camera-forum/00QO4r seems to suggest it is not the best. I would say, probably, putting a reasonable close-up filter on the kit lens would give better results. I have a set of (fairly poor) close up filters myself and they provide quite a nice dreamy effect. Good ones I have no doubt can be excellent.

Do buy the canon with the kit lens (the IS one) as it is usually bundled as a bargain, though, the 28mm will make a nice 'standard' if primes are his thing.

[cube]

Yes, I was also not sure how much value those lenses bring if they are old+consumer, not old+pro, and he won't be using all of them given his kit zoom.

Maybe he should be looking at how much he would get selling that old gear, and how much a used (maybe also old) lens like he wants costs.

And there's still too much speculation about that discount.

[LERsince1991]

If he can get the 1000D and the kit lens for £230 it is the best deal, yes. I am not knocking this but making a decision based upon the existence of these lenses is perhaps unwise, the 100-300 is sure to disappoint. http://photo.net/canon-eos-digital-camera-forum/00QO4r seems to suggest it is not the best. I would say, probably, putting a reasonable close-up filter on the kit lens would give better results. I have a set of (fairly poor) close up filters myself and they provide quite a nice dreamy effect. Good ones I have no doubt can be excellent.

Do buy the canon with the kit lens (the IS one) as it is usually bundled as a bargain, though, the 28mm will make a nice 'standard' if primes are his thing.

Ah, So thats what created the 'dreamy' effect in my latest macro shoots (3 Films). I liked it... because its macro and it's something you can't see in life with the naked human eye, it works with the dreamy effect. It's only noticable when zoomed in though.

Ah didn't realise I would be able to 'convert' a normal lens to a reasonable macro lens with a cheap additional module lens.

[iBookG4user]

Ah, So thats what created the 'dreamy' effect in my latest macro shoots (3 Films). I liked it... because its macro and it's something you can't see in life with the naked human eye, it works with the dreamy effect. It's only noticable when zoomed in though.

Ah didn't realise I would be able to 'convert' a normal lens to a reasonable macro lens with a cheap additional module lens.

There's a cheap trick that you can use to get macro-esque images as well. Take any pair of cheap binoculars, remove their front lens elements and tape them together. Then take a 52mm filter (for your 28mm lens) break out all of the glass and use electrical tape to tape the two lens elements together until they will fit inside of the 52mm filter. Once finished then simply screw your new filter onto the lens and you have a macro setup. (It works significantly better if you stop down to about f/8 and use a tripod)

I have used this before to get macro shots and it worked surprisingly well. (here (http://fc45.deviantart.com/fs22/i/2008/027/6/0/Gateway_to_another_world_by_GKmon_DORU_fanatic.jpg) is one shot that I took using a 50mm with that setup. It was only shot at f/4 so it wasn't optimally sharp and it was handheld which further lowered the sharpness, but it was pretty good I thought.)

Another way to get a cheap macro setup would be to take a wide angle lens and reverse it. Thus the front of the lens would be pointing at the camera and the rear would be pointing outwards. This works best with older lenses that have an actual aperture ring though, as you cannot stop down since the lens is not connected to the camera. (here (http://fc18.deviantart.com/fs37/f/2008/275/0/f/0fb4e150dd3f6319be3e49172ddcf5df.jpg) is an example using this setup with a Canon 17-40mm ƒ/4. I had to put the ISO to the max to get a reasonable shutter speed, so mind the noise. Although this setup allowed me to get six times life size, in other words it was six times closer than a dedicated macro lens would allow you to focus. Again not the best picture, but I don't often stray into macro photography, I'm just a gearhead :D)

And the final cheap way to get a macro-esque setup would be to order extension tubes. They put distance between the lens and the camera and thus allow you to focus closer. There are two types of extension tubes, ones that have the electrical contacts and maintain the connection between the lens and the camera body, and those that don't. Here (http://www.amazon.co.uk/MACRO-EXTENSION-Full-TUBES-CANON/dp/B001CWZE6A/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1238884642&sr=8-3) is an example of the latter, that doesn't, it is very cheap and will allow you to get macro shots. Here (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kenko-Teleplus-Extension-Tube-Canon/dp/B000JGD9JY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1238884777&sr=8-1) is an example of the former, which will retain the connection between the lens and camera, it is priced significantly more, so you'll have to decide if it is worth it for you.

I'd try those three in order, such as if you don't like the first, go to the second, then the third until you find the ideal setup for yourself within your budget. Hope this helps a bit :)

[LERsince1991]

Haha, more ways to go macro than I imagined. :P

What about an additional lens like the one pictured here? Could this be a 'neater' solution to get a macro lens?

sorry I'm not that knowledgeable of more advanced and general digital photography. only started doing a black and white film course at school with 100% manual cameras not so long ago.

[ashjamben]

ive not read all of the thread, but i know you mentioned you didn't want a sony and you would like a canon to use the lenses with.

anyway i was helping a friend of mine choose a new camera and he was initially going for the nikon d60. i had a quick look around the net, and although i'm no photography expert, the sony a300 is slightly cheaper (at jessops ;)) and has slightly better specs (longer lense, higher ISO, Live view, 9-point AF) with a flexible screen. check it out on jessops.

i know you initially dismissed the sony, but it seems like a good deal to me. like i said, i dont really know much about cameras so i may be completely wrong.

[iBookG4user]

Haha, more ways to go macro than I imagined. :P

What about an additional lens like the one pictured here? Could this be a 'neater' solution to get a macro lens?

sorry I'm not that knowledgeable of more advanced and general digital photography. only started doing a black and white film course at school with 100% manual cameras not so long ago.

That is a close up filter, so it is essentially the same thing as the binocular trick. If you have a pair of binoculars laying around, steal the elements out of them before you go pay money for something that does the same thing. You may find that you're fine with the image quality of the free item and you saved yourself some money.

[LERsince1991]

That is a close up filter, so it is essentially the same thing as the binocular trick. If you have a pair of binoculars laying around, steal the elements out of them before you go pay money for something that does the same thing. You may find that you're fine with the image quality of the free item and you saved yourself some money.

Ah cool. Thanks for all that 'iBookG4user', you put a lot of effort into that post :P links and all. Cleared yet another thing up for me, thanks. I was just thinking along the lines of the 'close up' filter as its a bit of a neater solution in my eyes. I don't have binoculars anyway but I'd imagine these close up filters don't cost much at all?

thanks ashjamben but I think theres better offers to be had, some posted before on a samsung dSLR and if I can get an employee of canon to buy it for me I will get it half price so the 1000D would only be £230 which is pretty damn good :)

I think I've sort of settled for the 1000d now :) If I can get the discount Its a definate, if I can't then I'll be looking at the samsung previously linked and then decide.

Thanks again everyone :D
I'm well excited, I'll be getting my 2.4Ghz Alu Macbook soon from the money I go for my 18th and what I've saved up. Then my new desk will be finished within 2 weeks (check sig) and THEN I get the 1000D and I'm sorted, just need a 24" monitor to top it off (lol... never going to happen, well... I might be able to pick some extra shifts up and if I get a engineering scholarship for architecture at uni I'll be sorted for a long long time :P)

[Benguitar]

Canon Rebel XSi

http://www.crunchgear.com/wp-content/photos/xsi1.jpg

[LERsince1991]

Canon Rebel XSi

http://www.crunchgear.com/wp-content/photos/xsi1.jpg

Is that yours or just to tempt me? :cool:

[Benguitar]

Is that yours or just to tempt me? :cool:

I own one, I am a student and it is an amazing camera. I highly recommend it.

[LERsince1991]

I own one, I am a student and it is an amazing camera. I highly recommend it.

Ah wicked, cheers... I wish it was called rebel in the UK :P